Is the Government Catching Terrorists or Creating Them?
The story of Jose Pimentel, the alleged New York City pipe bomber whose arrest was announced on Sunday, is starting to have a familiar ring. Like other terrorism suspects prosecuted in recent years, he seems to be a schlemiel who was egged on by a government informant. The New York Times reports that the FBI repeatedly declined to pursue the case because it was concerned that the informant had enabled Pimentel to begin implementing a plot he never would have executed on his own:
The suspect had little money to speak of, was unable to pay his cellphone bill and scrounged for money to buy the drill bits that court papers said he required to make his pipe bombs. Initially, he had trouble drilling the small holes that needed to be made in the metal tubes….
The informer provided companionship and a staging area so Mr. Pimentel, a Muslim convert, could build three pipe bombs while the Intelligence Division of the New York Police Department built its case…
There was concern that the informer might have played too active a role in helping Mr. Pimentel, said several people who were briefed on the case….
Intelligence Division detectives have had Mr. Pimentel, a native of the Dominican Republic and naturalized American citizen, under surveillance for more than two years and made more than 400 hours of secret recordings, but his efforts to make the pipe bombs did not develop until mid-October, according to the criminal complaint against him….
Investigators were concerned that the case raised some entrapment questions, two people said. They added that some investigators wondered whether Mr. Pimentel had the even small amount of money or technical know-how necessary to produce a pipe bomb on his own, had he not received help from the informer.
It is to be expected that the most incompetent terrorists are the ones who will tend to be caught before they do any damage. And those who attempt to kill people, such as would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid, would-be underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, and would-be car bomber Faisal Shahzad, obviously should not get off simply because they were not smart enough to achieve their goals. But in cases like Pimentel's, the Liberty City Seven prosecution, and the JFK jet fuel plot, there is a real question as to whether the defendants would have posed any threat at all if they'd been left alone. The Times, by the way, notes "a practical advantage" to prosecuting Pimentel in state court: "state prosecutors said they were allowed to charge Mr. Pimentel with a conspiracy, even if he were acting with just the informant; federal law does not permit charging such a conspiracy."
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are rightly worried about the STATE's role in creating terrorists; however, these libertarians also rely on the power of the agricultural city-STATE, which they use to protect their precious land enTITLEments. They rely on a Rothbardian police power to restrict the free movements of peoples by using arbitrary lines of demarcation.
Officer, am I free to gambol?
Am I the only one who wants more details?
Yes.
Well, he's crazy and he was out of drill bits. Do the math.
What's the Hemingway short story where the kid "circumcises" the whole thing? Because this is what I keep seeing.
Who can blame him? Does anyone really want a covered wagon? Amirite Party?
Warty!
I read once that half of the arrests made for pedophilia involved only the criminal and a federal agent pretending to be a child. Of the terrorist 6 cases mentioned in the post, half involved interactions with federal agents rather than independent attempts at crime. Maybe we can generalize this ratio.
That CIA/NYPD detective was discovered when the landlord of the apartment building walked in and discovered what looked like a terrorist plot being planned and called the cops. The first thing that popped into my mind when I read that was, who's the cop trying to setup?
Imagine my surprise.
Eh, better safe than sorry in this sort of case. It's not as if the FBI convinced this guy to take up radical Islam in the first place, and I want all Islamists to think that anybody helping them with bomb-making is possibly an informant. Simply sowing distrust is a positive.
Anyone who offers to build you or help you build a bomb is an agent of the government. Why is this so hard for people to figure out? Does nobody Google their accomplices?
I think you may have tried to build a bomb. Time to lock you up...better safe than sorry.
Weak.
Think you're right, Epi. He's been known to hang out on blogs frequented by known libertarians and other right-wing wackos.
Is it just me, or does radical Islam seem to attract only people with room temperature IQs? When I look at all these would be bombers it's like a special ed class.
Education is provided by Allah in Islam. Take your infidel education elsewhere.
Perhaps for the low-level fanatics, but remember, we're judging by the skewed sample of the guys we catch beforehand.
Since 9/11, that's all there's been -- guys we catch beforehand.
Believing in radical Islam is not a crime.
Just like being a bloodthirsty bedwetter whose opinion of America is so low that he thinks incompetent, possibly mentally ill imbeciles pose a national security threat, is not a crime. Luckily for you and your pals.
And happy holidays to you, too! Even if your powers of deduction and grasp of history are so weak that you think only competent and sane people can be very dangerous.
I agree. It is fine to entrap people and train them to make bombs (as well as finance it).
As long as they charge the "informer" as an accessory/accomplice.
Holy shit- that NYT article is completely incoherent.
Why don't we just round up all the Mohammedans and put them in camps?
Better safe than sorry.
now would that be obama's FEMA camps which radio entertainers agiproped about?
becktard wingnutz [DERP]
I prefer 'musselman' for obsolete Muslim references. Make a note of it for future reference, will you?
Variant spellings such as 'mussulman' are also acceptable.
I sure do like mussels man mmm mmm.
Moors works as well.
Look, people, if they don't con a bunch of broke losers into trying to build bombs, then they won't have any 'terrorists arrested' statistics to justify their budgets and expanded powers under the Patriot Act. So let's just let the government do it's job, mmmkay?
That's about what I was thinking. They're just drumming up business.
The British comedian Dave Allen used to do a great skit based on Ian Paisley:
Ian Paisley would be in front of an audience ranting about sin and the Divine retribution that would follow.
Ian Paisley: "When the Judgment Day comes, there will be a great gnashing of teeth."
Little Old Lady in the front row: "But Reverend Paisley, I don't have any teeth."
Paisley: "Teeth will be provided."
Too bad Ron Paul didn't bring up this case in last night's debate. If the Patriot Act were so damned important, why are we having to manufacture our own terrorist plots?
The Patriot Act is required because of the terrorist threat.
And vice-versa.
Exactly. Turtles, all the way down.
This is more like Turtles back to back, or feet to feet, or in a circle, or something.
The federal turtle ouroboros. Far out.
If these guys aren't disgruntled about the governmwnt and America before this happens, they sure as hell will be once they get screwed over like this.
So we'll send them to jail to learn from other criminals after we make them hate America. That way, when they get released, they'll try again!
It's a jobs program for DHS on so many levels.
Eastasia, why do you have to be so warmongery!?!
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
We have always been at peace with Eurasia.
It's not about terrorism, it is about mayor Bloomberg having a news distraction when he tries to empty out the OWS camps.
In that case, can we manufacture some more terrorist plots?
This may jsut be the coolest thing ever dude. wow.
http://www.surf-privacy.at.tc
Query: Is the Government Catching Terrorists or Creating Them?
Response:[computer voice] "What's the difference?"
The proper term is "creating or saving" terrorists.
Anybody that can be enticed to build pipe bombs after being enticed to convert to Islam needs to be locked-up!