Crime

Riverside County, CA Wants Jails to Become "Prison Hotels," Without the Amenities

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Prison

The board of supervisors in Riverside County, California wants to start charging inmates rent. Supervisor Jeff Stone introduced an ordinance—unanimously approved by the board—that would charge prisoners about $140 for each day they serve in jail.

Stone told The Huffington Post:

If the parolee does not have liquid funds to pay, the County will put a lien against the property to receive payment when the property is sold. The County will do the same on the parolee's parents' property if that's the only way to get the money.

The $140 would also go towards expenses such as drug tests, medical care, parole costs, and even public defenders for inmates. 

This policy would basically force prisoners to participate in a government monopoly. With no competition and the ability to compel "consumers" of its service, officials gain unilateral control in determining what services prisoners get and at what price, with no pressure to reduce or even maintain costs. Based on Stone's initial estimate, each prisoner would be paying around $51,000 a year for all the luxuries of jail. Texas prisons' public-private partnerships proves it can be done for cheaper, but don't count on diminished financial liability to bring about those sort of improvements.

Stone's ordinance would also result in disastrous conflicts of interest. He expects "the measure would bring in $3 million to $5 million a year. " When government officials have a monetary impetus for every additional prisoner behind bars, that creates an incentive for dubious convictions and arrests.

Incarceration already substantially diminishes economic mobility, hampering ex-prisoners' reintegration into society. Depriving prisoners of any remaining capital won't help.

A question for Stone: if prisoners don't pay their rent, will they be evicted?

Loads more Reason on criminal injustice here, here, here, here and here.

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  1. putting people in jail isn’t violence

    1. ourselves by claiming civilization is getting more peaceful each and every day.

      As soon as everybody is in jail, we’ll have zero violence, and prove once and for all gamboling about plain and forest was ever so brutish.

    2. HI MISS RECTAL HOW’S YOUR DAY GOIN’? YOU HAVIN’ A GOOD DAY? IT’S SUCH A BEAUTIFUL DAY AND THE SUN’S OUT AND THAT DRESS YOU HAVE ON SURE IS PRETTY!

    3. California is just cashing in on the Gulag craze. Nostalgia has no limits, or taste.

  2. Beyond how fucking perverse of an incentive this is:

    The County will do the same on the parolee’s parents’ property if that’s the only way to get the money

    Uh…what?!? Am I reading this wrong?

    1. I can’t figure that one out. We’re talking about adults, right? How on Earth can the government reach the parents’ assets? Even the kids can’t do that.

      1. It’s the government, ProL, it will do as it pleases.

        Also, what about someone falsely imprisoned? Do they get a refund, with interest?

        This idea is so fucked up. But this is what we are going to see more and more of as they get more and more desperate for money.

        1. I don’t think that’s legal, even in today’s anything-goes society.

          On the other hand, their lust for revenue will undoubtedly mean more trampling on our quaint ideas about property.

      2. Gotta be a typo of some description.

        There’s no way the state can hold someone financially responsible for the actions of another adult.

        Of course, with the current administration considering anyone under 26 years “children,” nothing would surprise me.

        1. It’s just some idiot talking. The County Attorney has probably already explained that by now.

        2. Agreed. There’s simply no way this is legal.

          As Epi pointed out, what about false arrests or imprisonment? What happens to people in jail, waiting for trial, who have not been convicted of anything?

          What if they don’t have any property to put a lien against?

          This is just stupid on every level.

          [GAMBOL]

          1. Might be a due process problem, too. They’ve already been sentenced and maybe fined for whatever they’ve done.

      3. We’re talking about adults, right?

        Not if “jail” includes juvenile detention.

        “We’ll let you have your child back as soon as you pay this bill.”

        1. And every day you don’t pay the bill we’ll charge you for that and add interest on the total.

          I had thought debtor’s prisons were illegal.

      4. Riverside Board of supervisors will figure out a way – believe me. They will either have code enforcement or animal control to get riverside county counsel to file charges against you. the DA will lie, cheat, steal – whatrever it takes – to get anyone convicted – because the Public defenders Claim Conflict – so everyone is pawned off to Harmon and Gretch’s Conflict Defense Attorneys – whose REAL JOB IS TO DEFENDEND EVERYONE – FOR FREE INCLUDING ATTORNEY FEES – EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR RIVERSIDE COUNTY – WHAT A SWEET DEAL. $11 MILLION TO DE FACTO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE RIVERISIDE COUNTY HAS A VENDETTA AGAINST GETS A GUILTY VERDICT. BUT FIRST COUNTY COUNSEL WILL BILL YOU AROUND $54,000 FOR WHATEVER “SERVICE” HAS BEEN BESTOWED UPON YOU BY RIVERSIDE’S GESTAPO. GET READY – YOU COULD BE NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!

    2. They are dreaming. They are as incompetent in their understanding of basic law as they are unsatiably greedy.

  3. What the flying fuck is this.

    1. Government Provided Peace.

      It’s not violence at all. Please take another dose of Ron Bailey & Jim Epstein’s article about Steven Pinker if you feel any undue anxiety. It’s just that White Indian has infected your mind with this freedom of gamboling a little too much.

    2. Well said.

      Even the most hard-nosed anti-crime team red cheerleader has to find this disturbing. And even putting aside the prison-is-supposed-to-hurt mentality, it’s an unworkable solution that creates all kinds of perverse incentives all the way up and down the chain.

      1. True, but this isn’t just a monumentally evil right-wing scheme. It’s also a monumentally evil left-wing scheme. This kind of willy-nilly asset seizure is the ultimate end of the “there are no budget problems only revenue problems” mindset.

        I guess on the plus side, Riverside will stop arresting young minority men. They don’t have any cool stuff to steal.

        1. And I apologize for coloring it that way. I didn’t look at the article, but I was merely hat-tipping the get-tough-on-crime mindset that pervades the GOP.

          I guess on the plus side, Riverside will stop arresting young minority men. They don’t have any cool stuff to steal.

          Interesting… I didn’t even consider that. But I guess that would still fall under “perverse incentives”.

        2. That’s actually a good point, what will be the point of arresting people if they have nothing to take?

    3. The road of serfdom, paved in greenbacks and blood. The government bureaucrat’s neverending quest for Truth, Justice, and the American Way get their hooks so deep into every individual that you won’t be able to buy, sell, or take a piss without letting the government man know about it.

  4. Especially if the jailed are made to work extra hours as a wage slave.

    PEACE IS OUR PROFESSION.
    – jails and prisons
    – nuclear weapons
    – tax collection
    – police enforcement
    – compulsory domestication in school

    Libertarians love the peace the city-STATE so benevolently provides! I learned that from Ron Bailey!

    So quit your bellyachin’ already, Episiarch.

    1. HOWDY MISS RECTAL DO YOU THINK I SHOULD GET A PECAN PIE OR A STRAWBERRY RHUBARB PIE FROM THE STORE? BLUEBERRY PIE’S MY FAVORITE BUT THEY’RE ALL OUT! WHAT’S YOUR FAVORITE KIND OF PIE, MISS RECTAL?

    2. you troll and you troll, and i still don’t really know what you’re advocating..?

      1. they’re so reasonable

        1. HEY MISS RECTAL YOU SEEM MIGHTY ANTSY! SOMETHING BOTHERIN’ YOU TODAY? DID THAT BIG GATOR GO INTO YOUR BACK YARD AGAIN? I CAN TRY AND TRAP HIM FOR YOU IF YOU WANT ME TO!

          1. Oh, and if anyone needed more evidence that it’s you-know-who, go back to the OWS thread, towards the bottom.

            It refers to Warty, Epi, ProL, Heller, etc. as “my boys”, which is a phrasing that rather always used.

            1. Yeah, I don’t need any further evidence. Even she’s stopped her pathetic denials at this point.

            2. Pretty flimsy “evidence” since many here know that and could do it just to razz her some more.

              Besides, I thought rectal was just a blogwhore. Was she also known to write of the munificence of the hunter-gatherer lifestyle?

      2. you troll and you troll, and i still don’t really know what you’re advocating

        It is simple. You don’t understand because you are not bat-shit insane. If you ever begin to understand WI, you should seek immediate psychiatric help.

        1. Good idea, comrade. All political dissent is a mental illness.

          1. HEY MISS RECTAL, MR GRADY SAID THAT YOU WENT TO SEE YOUR THERAPIST TODAY TO HELP YOU WITH YOUR ANGER! I’VE NEVER BEEN TO A PSY-COL-O-GIST CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT’S LIKE?

            1. I LIKE TO SMEAR SHIT ON MY TONGUE AND ALONG THE INSIDE OF MY MOUTH I LIKE THE KIND WITH THE CORN AND PEANUTS IN IT THE BEST YUM YUM I’M AN ANARCHIST SO I DON’T CARE!!!!!1

              1. GOLLY MISS RECTAL I GUESS THE PSY-CHOL-O-GIST DIDN’T HELP AT ALL! WHERE’D YOU LEARN TO SAY THOSE THINGS, MISS RECTAL? IT JUST SOUNDS WRONG COMING FROM SUCH A DELICATE FLOWER AS YOURSELF!

      3. I’m attacking Steven Pinker’s idiotic idea that the City-STATE brings peace over egalitarian Non-State sociopolitical typology.

        His work fails in two areas:

        1. He uses prehistoric societies practicing domestication/agriculture for his base of all prehistoric societies. That is a horrible mistake, because it is well established in anthropological texts that the advent of domestication and agriculture greatly increased violence.

        2. He only compares death rates from war/murder. He disingenuously leaves out prisons, slavery, tax collection, compulsory schooling, nuclear weapons, and so many other aspects of our daily lives in civilization governed by violence, even if only the constant threat of it.

        1. GOLLY MISS RECTAL YOU SURE KNOW A LOT ABOUT ALL THIS CITY STUFF! I WISH I HAD BEEN ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOLING LIKE YOU BUT MY MOMMA SAID I WAS TOO SIMPLE!

    3. compulsory domestication in school

      You is trollin’.

        1. Shut it.

  5. I don’t see an inherent problem with making prisoners pay for their keep. First, though, privatize all the prisons and create some form of competition between them.

    And forget that parents nonsense.

    1. I don’t see an inherent problem with making prisoners pay for their keep

      Go back to your econ 101 and “incentives”. Once there is a financial incentive to hold people in jail, guess what, yep, those who benefit will seek to increase the number of people in jail.

      Jail is supposed to provide deterrent and punishment to those who have broken the law. Instead, this will make jail a place to create income for the jailers. We already have this to a large extent with the WoD.

      1. Once there is a financial incentive to raping Mother Earth, guess what, yep, those who benefit will seek to increase the rape of Mother Earth.

        Thanks, Field Marshall, for your help.

        1. You are damn right their is! Instead of driving 1/2 mile to have my motor oil recycled, I use it for weed killer in my driveway! I save myself like a quarter! Take it Gaia, yeah, she likes it all greasy and oily!

          If I dump my used motor oil in the ground, is that rape-rape?

          1. You pour it on the ground? Its fuel, and lubricant in my business.

    2. Go and read about chain gangs. Our country has done had a system with economic incentives for locking people up, it wasn’t pretty.

  6. So, basically, we’re bringing back debtors’ prisons?

    1. No, we’re making people debtors by putting them into prison.

      Funny though, the OWS movement told me that being in debt already was a prison. So now I’m thoroughly confused.

      1. Maybe they should just skip imprisoning them and charge everyone–or their parents–rent for living in their county.

        1. Beyond the taxes, I mean.

  7. holy shit

    good thing i’m a middle class white

    1. It’s not what it used to be.

    2. No, see, middle class whites have money and assets. That’s what they’re trying to get.

  8. At least it will give them incentive to put Lindsay Lohan in jail. Once her property is completely devalued, they can go after her parents. To hell with the other 99% of the prison population – Occupy Riverside County Jail! And make sure you and your parents have no property.

    1. “”Once her property is completely “”

      But she has the money to cover her time. Poor people won’t have the money anyway. It’s an odd tax on the middle class.

  9. You think that this could create a perverse incentive to jail more inmates, but you also support private prisons? That’s just pure ideology. Those same perverse incentives exist for the private prisons to lobby for harsher laws and mandatory minimums.

    1. Lobbying, Bribing, Whatever…

      http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetw…..ry-scandal

    2. So the prison lobby will lobby for harsher laws and mandatory minimums, but since it’s still coming out of the general fund, and consequently, corporate taxes, the rest of corporate America should line up against them.

      Which evil corporation will you side with?

  10. The local county jail charges the following fees and has for several years now:

    Booking Fees $20.00

    Bond Fee $25.00

    Weekenders $20.00, Process $30.00 a day

    Regular Inmates $10.00 per day

    Medical $10.00 per visit, Maintenance Meds $5.00 a month each. Meds PRN $2.00 each.

    Transport Fee $20.00

    Dentist $20.00

  11. Look, there’s a whole lot of stupid in this idea. But this response isn’t much brighter:

    This policy would basically force prisoners to participate in a government monopoly.

    That seems to be a pretty unusual perspective. And it has nothing to do with the stupidity of the ordinance. Even in libertopia, imposing punishments that go beyond those stipulated by the punishing authority is ludicrous.

  12. Part 1: The Problem is Civilization

    Prison

    “The world of the Takers is one vast prison, and except for a handful of Leavers scattered across the world, the entire human race is now inside that prison.”

    “Naturally a prison must have a prison industry. It helps to keep the inmates busy. It takes their minds off the boredom and futility of their lives. Our prison industry? Consuming the world.”

    “White male inmates are indeed inmates and not warders. For all their power and privilege?for all that they lord it over everyone else in the prison?not one of them has a key that will unlock the gate. It should be noted that what is crucial to your survival as a race is not the redistribution of power and wealth within the prison but rather the destruction of the prison itself.”

    “The inmates of the Taker prison build the prison anew for themselves in every generation. When it’s done, it’ll be the work of all of you, men and women alike. Even so, the women of your culture have never been as enthusiastic about the prison life as the men?have rarely gotten as much out of it as men have.” But men do not run the prison. “As long as the food remains under lock and key, the prison runs itself. The governing that you see is the prisoners governing themselves. They’re allowed to do that and live as they please within the prison. For the most part, the prisoners have chosen to be governed by men?or allowed themselves to be governed by men?but these men don’t run the prison itself.”

    “The unspoken agreement among businesses to limit their obligation [to their employees] to issuing a paycheck is precisely what gives our society its prison ambiance. Workers have ‘no way out’. Prisons are always arranged to suit the warders. That’s the anticipated order of things. No one thinks that prisons are built to suit the needs of prisoners or that businesses are built to suit the needs of workers.

    A Condensation of Daniel Quinn Thought
    http://www.lejournalmural.be/e…..ntent.html

    1. GEE WHILIKERS, MISS RECTAL, YOU SURE KNOW LOTS O’ STUFF ABOUT CIV-I-LI-ZATION WITH ALL THAT BOOK LEARNIN’ YOU DONE! I SURE WISH COOTER COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT Y’ALL ARE TALKIN’ ABOUT!

      1. Unhelpful.

        1. Robbins:

          Still tastes like shit.

          1. I’ll take your word for it. I don’t have a dog in that race.

    2. I liked this movie better when it was called The Matrix.

  13. I know you’re angry, fellow tribe members, but it’s for the best that I tore up your plantings. I know some of your kids are going to starve this winter, but you’ll thank me in the long run.

  14. This is almost certainly a due process violation. Prisoners who refuse to pay won’t even have to file a lawsuit to challenge it, since the county is going to have to go through the court system to get at their assets.

    And I say that as someone who thinks it’s OK to force prisoners to labor to pay for their food and lodgings…but $51,000 a year is going a tad far.

  15. Our stone age culture didn’t require any work. There was “retirement” at the age of around 20. Permanent retirement. We didn’t even invent the FUCKING WHEEL but are superior to those people who live to be over 100 and drive automobiles that require no work to travel long distances.

    Apparently, some of our people remain about as intelligent as Homo-Erectus, well, maybe not quite.

    I am absolutely certain that there is a government grant available to study this extraordinary freak of nature. If this was Kos instead of Reason there would have been a couple dozen study grants already awarded.

  16. for fucks sake those even those commies at huffpo like the idea according to the poll. the worst part is that they’re selling this as a budget solution. apparently they just want to fill in the budget gap by wantonly stealing people’s houses so they can go back to building trains or whatever dumbass idea they have.

  17. So, when do people start considering criminal acts suicide missions?

  18. ? I’m consistently pro-freedom, anti-regulation, pro-legitimate property, anti-State.

    ? I bring incontrovertible evidence from anthropology and archeology that the workings of the State are an inseparable part of the agricultural-city-State. The only people upset are those city-Statists who must cling to their dear dogmas by avoiding reality.

    ? If you think I’m repetitive, I only bring up the agricultural-city-State when somebody is pissing and moaning about the State. Complaining about the State, but loving the city-State (civilization) is like complaining about noise, but loving jets.

    ? Don’t respond to me if you can’t grasp the simple truth that civilization is the aggressor. It’s like I’m at a Boeing company picnic, and people are complaining about the noise ruining the picnic, and when I mention the noise is an integral part of the jets flying above, they go apeshit on me.

    ? I change my name, not to cause confusing, because other people steal it and deliberately spread disinformation under my name, thus I was given a private incentive by libertarians to use the “name” as a “header.”

    ? I’m all for registration too. Seems that some libertarians are quite willing to shit up their own comment sections, like above, and then try to falsely blame the bringer of the truth.

    1. Damn, you are a pompous ass…

    2. Unlike modern-day hunter-GATHERERS, our tree-dwelling ape ancestors lived in total harmony and harmony. I bring incontrovertible evidence from a scholarly bear-skin painting I saw once.

  19. It’s like I’m at a Boeing company picnic, and people are complaining about the noise ruining the picnic, and when I mention the noise is an integral part of the jets flying above…

    I’ve been to many Boeing picnics under the flight path of LGB. Very nice people, and always a good time. Frankly, if one of those big ol’ C-17’s were to fly overhead, I guarantee there would be no complaining about the noise. Try a different simile.

  20. Ah Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone. Considering how much he hates the 1st amendment, it comes as no surprise he would ride roughshod over every other right as well.

  21. So you get charged $51k for each year you’re in jail (which is more than a lot of people make), stay for three years, get hit with a huge bill upon release, lose anything you may have had because you can’t pay it, and then end up back in jail because, fuck it, crime’s the only job you can get that pays well enough to cover the debt.

    This should be called the “Full Employment For The Prison Industy Act” or “Fuckwads” for short.

  22. lol, you are kidding right? Thats absurd.

    web-privacy.au.tc

  23. Maybe they really ought to charge on the basis of the sentence imposed, whithout considering whether the inmate is released on parole. Then they could charge a lot more. If it is like a hotel, then this would be a sort of cancellation fee for a missed reservation. Lindsey Lohan could be charged full rate for all the days she should have been in jail, but avoided.

    Even better, do like some Scandanavian nations do and charge based on percent of wealth owned, not a fixed fee. Someone like LL would get hit with a really stiff rack rate, while vagrants would get a free night with a square meal.

  24. this is not a good way. There’s simply no way this is legal.

  25. “A question for Stone: if prisoners don’t pay their rent, will they be evicted?”

    Saint Peter don’t ya call me, ’cause I can’t go! I owe my soul to Supervisor Jeff Stone.

  26. I’ve had a tough time clearing my thoughts in getting my thoughts out. I truly do enjoy writing however it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes are generally lost simply just trying to figure out how to begin. Any recommendations or tips? Appreciate it!

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