Give Your Keys to the City: What Could Go Wrong?
Last month, discussing a Justice Department proposal to make ISPs retain information about their customers' Internet use, I noted that opponents of reshaping the world to make life easier for cops "used to ask whether we should all be forced to hand over our house keys to the local police, just in case they need them." Evidently the city fathers of Cedar Falls, Iowa, took that hypothetical as a policy proposal rather than a reductio ad absurdum. On Monday the Cedar Falls City Council, by a vote of 6 to 1, approved an ordinance that requires the owners of all commercial buildings and apartment buildings with three or more units to keep master keys in exterior lock boxes so "first responders" can gain access more easily during an emergency. The legislation expands an ordinance that was approved without controversy seven years ago. But this time around, the Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier reports, council members "received hundreds of phone calls and e-mails from people all over the country" who were "upset about the issue." Prior to the council's vote on Monday, "a dozen [residents] spoke out against the ordinance, while just one citizen voiced support for it." Most of the critics seem to be concerned that the lock boxes make buildings more vulnerable to criminals. But Fox News reports that at an earlier meeting one resident "cited quotes from Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson while questioning whether ease of access is worth the loss of freedom for property owners."
Is this a sensible fire code provision or an insidious precedent that puts too much trust in local authorities, giving them the ability (though not the legal authority) to enter people's businesses and homes at will? Does it matter that the master key to the lockboxes is kept by the fire department rather than the police? Would including more buildings, such as duplexes and single-family homes, make the ordinance more or less objectionable? (The lone dissenting council member, Nick Taiber, suggests that the ordinance's limited sweep raises equal protection issues.) Fox News reports that "proponents of the measure say expansion of the ordinance to include additional apartment buildings will lead to increased ease of entry during emergencies and a reduction in property damage." But if the lock boxes are an unambiguous boon to landlords and tenants, preserving their property while easing their rescue during fires and other emergencies, why make them mandatory?
[Thanks to Mark Lambert for the tip.]
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Well this way you'll only have to replace your dog but your door will remain intact.
Quality first post right there.
Homelessness really IS the answer to living a decent life in America, apparently.
I noted that opponents of reshaping the world to make life easier for cops "used to ask whether we should all be forced to hand over our house keys to the local police, just in case they need them."
See what happens when you give them ideas?! There is no bottom for statists. There is no slope too slippery for them to slide down it headfirst on a potato sack. There is no policy in which they will say "okay, this is too much of an infringement on the citizens' liberties."
And yes, I fully expect the firebugs to hand over keys to the cops out of "professional courtesy."
Some days, you ask, "would they really go that far?" You would have to honestly answer yourself, no matter how absurd the matter is, "yes. yes, they would."
so, in an emergency, first responders will have time to unlock the lockbox, sift through the hundreds or thousands of keys, and then find the one to your house? Is that really necessary?
I mean, if my house is burning down, I don't think I would mind the fire department knocking down the door to get in to put out the flames or pull my family out. No need in fumbling with keys...
I think the idea is that each residence covered would have its own lockbox that opens to a passkey. So they wouldn't be fumbling around: they'd be opening the one for your building and getting the only key inside. At least that's what the coverage I've seen indicates.
okay, so instead of sifting through the keys, you'll be shuffling around lockboxes to find the one you need?
Nope. The lockbox is on your building, not a central location. So the LEO/firefighter/cop impersonator pulls up, goes to the box by the door, opens it, and gets the key. It's essentially the same sort of thing that real estate agents do now, but hopefully not hanging on your doorknob.
Ah yes, those things. Now I get it. Makes it easier for criminals to have access to your stuff.
wait nevermind, I think I was a bit confused. There will supposedly be a masterkey to unlock all the doors. NVM.
Anyway, terrible idea. Carry on...
It doesn't unlock all the doors. It unlocks those maintained by the building owner where the owner has entrance and egress rights, i.e., common entrances and exits, service entrances, etc. It would not be a master key to get in your apartment since, in most cases, your landlord does not have the right to enter your apartment at any time without your permission. Even if they have a master key for maintenance, you still have the right to tell them to leave (and a tenant can bring charges against a landlord for trespass if the landlord enters despite instruction now to).
So how will this help those first responders if my door is locked?
They still bust your door down. But the justification for multi-unit dwellings is that it reduces the time needed to get to people by getting them in the building. Given building security (barred doors, etc. to keep bad guys out), that itself isn't an unreasonable idea and if we were sure it would only be used to rescue people from fires, it would be one thing. But of course, that's just the issue.
Sorry for the double post. I clicked submit only once. Don't know what happened there.
They still bust your door down. But the justification for multi-unit dwellings is that it reduces the time needed to get to people by getting them in the building. Given building security (barred doors, etc. to keep bad guys out), that itself isn't an unreasonable idea and if we were sure it would only be used to rescue people from fires, it would be one thing. But of course, that's just the issue.
It would not be a master key to get in your apartment since, in most cases, your landlord does not have the right to enter your apartment at any time without your permission.
Here in PA, so long as they're not engaging in a pattern of harassment of the tenants, landlords can enter rented premises at any time to conduct inspections, with no notice whatsoever.
Even if they have a master key for maintenance, you still have the right to tell them to leave (and a tenant can bring charges against a landlord for trespass if the landlord enters despite instruction now to).
If the landlord has satisfied whatever notice requirements exist in the jurisdiction and has a valid purpose for entering the property, he need not obey the tenant's demand that he leave. The tenant's possession of limited property rights (including the right of exclusion) does not nullify the landlord's property rights.
If first responders (i.e., LEOs, paramedics, and firefighters) have access to these boxes, that's pretty wide access. All it would take is one bad one or one slip up and it would give crooks a passkey to many of the buildings. Supposedly not to apartments themselves, but usually the residents rely on the external defenses of the building quite a bit, and getting someone into the building would remove the most effective deterrents.
I'd like to hear how the proponents claim they will avoid this problem. It's not just about outside criminals breaking into the boxes, but also what's to stop a copy who doesn't want to deal with a search warrant from using this to work around that?
All in all, although I see the safety argument, this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I wonder how long until a cop is shot in the town because someone thinks he's breaking into the building?
But there are no corrupt cops, firemen or EMTs. You're just a paranoid freak.
That's right. I'll go check myself in the loony bin right now to get rid of teh insane and come out sane (= a good state-worshipper).
What are the odds the fire department will decide it's in the public interest to do "inspections" of these apartments for "unapproved" heaters and such, as long as they have the keys?
And, they might as well bring a cop along, just in case.
In principle they can't do this. The keys are for exterior access to the building, not to the actual units inside. However, as I noted above, getting into the building makes a whole lot of stuff easier that shouldn't be easier.
The keys are for exterior access to the building, not to the actual units inside.
How do you know this? The article doesn't say this, and the term "master key" implies it is a key for every door in the building.
I hope it's not based on your argument above that landlords are not allowed entry to rented units because that's hogwash.
""What are the odds the fire department will decide it's in the public interest to do "inspections" of these apartments for "unapproved" heaters and such, as long as they have the keys?
And, they might as well bring a cop along, just in case.""
Exactly. Little Rock Arkansas was doing this sort of thing except with apartments execpt it was a code inspector with a police officer. I have a friend that came home from work and found a summons on his living room table.
In Portland Maine the fire department knocked on my door (a rented apartment), and invited themselves inside to verify that the doors were up to code.
Three big guys cheerfully pushed their way into where I lived and began poking around like they were at home.
If keys were available the probably wouldn't have bothered to knock.
I live in Portland Maine, too. Small world, huh?
The maintenance people in my building go into apartments all the time, rarely without warning, but still, they do not ask for permission. I was never 0 sure it was illegal for them to enter without permission, so I never made a stink about it. Can anyone from Maine confirm what the law is here?
This was the fire department. Dudes in full gear, nosing about and bumping into things.
Something about doors that separated living spaces needing to be fire resistant.
Read your lease or condo bylaws.
This would ever be abused. Never.
Oh wait, to the government, that's the feature, not the bug.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame news
Gaga's meat dress is in.
Rush continues to get snubbed.
Fuck that place.
I guess the Rolling Stone critic is still alive.
No idea who, but apparently one said that Rush wont be in the HoF as long as he is alive.
Apparently it is Jann Wenner, who owns Rolling Stone and is one of the two guys running the HoF Foundation.
I doubt they'll use it anyway -- kicking in doors is much more badass and awesome.
I thought they usually used those fire axes to take down doors. I mean, in a real emergency, which is faster? Ax to the door or searching for the right key on a giant key ring?
Hey, I was the one that sent in the video to the site 😛 Who the hell is Mark Lambert?
Kidding, it's cool. I'm glad the story was written.
Another nail in the coffin of property rights,just like smoking bans,the drug war,the patriot act,trans fat bans,and on and on.I'll bet these lock boxes will never be used to look for drugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Many owners of large buildings already do this, albeit quietly. My old apartment in California certainly had a lockbox for emergency responders.
The market should be regulating this by increasing the cost of fire insurance for property owners who choose not to escrow keys with first responders.
I can't think of any economic incentive to escrow keys with police, as they've already proven they'll use a battering ram to open an unlocked door.
In principle they can't do this.
That makes me feel better.
Several observations:
There is a huge amount of overlap between Police, Fire and EMS organizations.
Fire and EMS people regularly report "suspicious activity" of all sorts to their LEO friends, and it only takes one "anonymous" call about a suspected fire to provide a pretext to enter a property. Once inside, anything goes.
In areas with volunteer Fire and EMS services, this would only increase the temptation for your enemies, rivals and competitors to snoop.
Well if you have noghting to hide? It's for the children. Policeman, fireman, and teachers are nobel.
There is a huge amount of personnel overlap between Police, Fire and EMS organizations.
If they'd make a felony, punishable by a mandatory five years of hard time, to use the keys for any purpose other than medical rescue or firefighting, I might not object.
You mean their assurances that they will only be used for rescue and firefighting aren't good enough for you ?
They cleared the officers in the Guerrera raid, good luck.
We're doomed.
I must have switched countries accidentally, because I'm having a difficult time recognizing this one.
This is a joke, right?
Couldn't they just disband the city council, police department, and fire department, and let property owners figure out how to best protect their own property?
This isn't quite as bad the school "shooting drill" like the one in Orangeville, Illinois, where they didn't bother to warn the kids first, and had the mock crazed gunman calling out the name of one of the students....
I understand that every minute counts, but for the life of me, I've never heard a fireman on the news say something along the lines of, "It's a tragedy she died. Maybe we could've saved her if the door opened faster." As for cops, if they wanna enter illegally, why can't they just kick the damn door in (and then make you pay for the door they broke)?