Police Raid Roundup

• Springhill, Massachusetts Nova Scotia family wakes up to cops in their home due to a wrong-door drug raid. Bonus points to the police spokesman for saying that this kind of thing "rarely ever happens," and for his passive-voice description of what transpired: "[one] would imagine [the occupants] might have been put on the floor."
• This seems suspiciously fortuitous.
• FBI, local police conduct wrong-door, early morning raid on a Pittsburgh family as part of a drug/gun investigation.
• Nassau County police raid a gun store owner on questionable charge of illegal assault weapons sales. Coincidentally, the same man was subject to a massive 2007 raid on his store that resulted in no criminal charges. The most recent raid came just before jury selection in the gun store owner's civil rights lawsuit against the county. And the story just gets worse from there.
• Headline: "Orlando SWAT team raids fake time-share resale company." Because after Mexican drug cartels, there's really no class of criminals more heavily armed than the fake time-share racket. 

Comments

[heller]

According to Tretola, in March 2006, Tretola received a telephone call from a Police Officer Faltings from the NCPD. Officer Faltings ordered Tretola to turn over possession of a particular firearm to a friend of Officer Faltings without the purchase documents for that particular weapon. Tretola denied Officer Falting's request, at which point Officer Faltings allegedly responded "Do you know who I am? I am the head of the Pistol Licensing Bureau of Nassau County.". Tretola responded in words or substance that "I do not care who you are or what you are. What you are asking of me is against the law and I will not do it."

Shortly after the telephone conversation, the two men met in person at police headquarters. During the meeting, Officer Faltings stated "when I ask for something you need to do it", and further stated that if Tretola didn't do as he asked, he would strip Tretola of his license to sell firearms. Tretola refused.

On May 9, 2007, Officer Faltings and five police officers orchestrated a massive raid involving the Nassau County Fire Marshal, the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco (ATF), the Town of Hempstead Building Department, and the Nassau County Bomb Squad. The raid was conducted without a warrant, and was completely beyond the purview of the Nassau County Pistol Licensing Bureau. Despite the failure to discover illegal activity, the Nassau County Police seized many weapons, and Martin Tretola was arrested for Reckless Endangerment. All charges were later dismissed. Tretola's seized inventory has not been returned.

Shortly after the charges were dismissed, Officer Faltings arbitrarily suspended Martin Tretola's licenses, including his pistol license, dealer's license, and gunsmith license. His store was temporarily shut down, causing massive financial harm. Eventually, Tretola was able to restore his licenses, and he filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against Nassau County.

Good job Balko, they're pulverized.

[Episiarch]

Christ, he better win that lawsuit.

[juris imprudent]

Now that is jury duty I'd kill for.

[Almanian]

Jesus. But free markets can't be trusted. It would be the LAW OF THE JUNGLE OUT THERE without government, people strongarming you, pushing you around, using their superior power....

wait...nevermind...

My nuts hurt - thanks, heller...

[Government Man]

" he filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit against Nassau County."

We at the government will pass this liability right back to you people; not one dime of our pay or personal money will go to this.

Our abuse has got you government subjects turning on yourselves!!!

Tretola should have recognized his place and obeyed his masters

http://youareproperty.blogspot.....ystem.html

[Tulpa]

Keep in mind we're hearing only one side of the story here.

[Episiarch]

Whenever I think your Con Air-loving self can't sicken me any more, you find a way.

[Tulpa]

I better not tell you about my views on Dunston Checks In, then.

[Episiarch]

And you find a way again! I think I'm going to vomit.

[Tulpa]

You left out the part where he explained how to illegally modify a rifle he later sold to a customer.

Yes, this is clearly a bit of opportunistic coercion by the NCPD et al., but Trelota had to have known he was a target. He should have been more careful to dot every i and cross every t with customers he doesn't know personally.

[zoltan]

He also said it was illegal to modify said rifle like that. Are you saying it's illegal for someone to merely mention to someone else how to do something illegal? If I were to say, "If you put a knife in someone's jugular, it will kill them but you shouldn't because it's illegal" would that be against the law?

Your authority fetish is showing again. Tretola shouldn't have to walk around on eggshells because the NCPD lost their dick-measuring, anti-2nd Amendment contest. And now the taxpayers of Nassau County will be paying for the unconstitutional actions of their law enforcement agency.

[Tulpa]

You're right, he shouldn't have to. And when I get pulled over for something silly like having a taillight out, I shouldn't have to be polite to the cop when he walks up to my window. But when you're a firearms dealer, you operate in view of the firearm enforcement authorities you have, not the ones you wish you had.

[Episiarch]

And when the firearm enforcement authorities that you have tell you to do something illegal, what then? I'm familiar with NY gun laws, and what this pig told him to do is a BIG no-no. I wouldn't have done it either.

[Tulpa]

I'm not saying he should have given the gun to the pig's friend, just that he should have been way more careful afterwards about what he said to new customers (ie, possible spies). Moving his shop to a different county wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

[hmm]

So you're arguing that because of intimidation by government officials he should have moved?

wow

Again what he said was not illegal or even questionable, hence no charges.

[Tulpa]

Knowing what we know now, it's pretty obvious he would have been better off moving.

[hmm]

That is until he settles with the city for a multimillion dollar lawsuit.

Of course, the metric of "better off" is pretty vague.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Or perhaps the citizens of Nassau shouldn't put up with the thuggish authorities they have.

[hmm]

It's not illegal to explain how to modify a rifle.

So who cares what he explained?

[Tulpa]

If you're selling it to the same person you're advising, that's not as clear-cut.

[hmm]

Yes it is. There is absolutely nothing illegal about explaining the mechanics of a gun. It is illegal to posses the parts or modified parts, but explaining how it is done is not illegal.

It's not illegal to own a full auto in many states and it is not federally illegal to own a full auto with out a FFL. You do need a tax stamp though. YAY for circumventing the Constitution to impose a pseudo ban.

[Tulpa]

If you explain how to make meth from Sudafed while selling that product to the person you're advising, you're going to get arrested and charged. Maybe not in the land of libertarian duckies and bunnies but in the real world of overzealous and/or corrupt law enforcement, it's going to happen.

[hmm]

Charged with what?

[Tulpa]

here

Last summer, for instance, state and federal agents arrested 49 convenience store clerks and owners in Georgia on charges that they sold pseudoephedrine and other supplies to informants posing as meth cooks.

The supplies, including matches, charcoal, anti-freeze, coffee filters, aluminum foil, and cat litter, were all perfectly legal. The charges, which carry penalties of up to 25 years in prison as well as fines and asset forfeiture, are based on the doubtful premise that the defendants knew or should have known what the fake customers were pretending to be planning.

All but a few of the defendants are Indian immigrants, and many have a weak grasp of ordinary English, let alone the slang of black-market meth manufacturers. Several said they assumed the guy who bought matches and camping fuel, saying he needed to "finish up a cook," was having a barbecue.

[generic Brand]

I'm not seeing the connection. This means that the guy who sells me fertilizer, nails, and copper wiring should be liable? Why don't we just get rid of all pharmacies and hardware stores? That way no one will be able to cook meth or make pipe bombs.

This is no better than the movie Conspiracy Theory; people go on the government watch list because they bought a copy of Catch 22.

[Tulpa]

If he gives you instructions on how to use those items to make a nail bomb, then he should be.

Now, showing someone how to make illegal but minor modifications to a rifle is a lot less dangerous than showing someone how to make a nail bomb.... but when we talk about the expected behavior of law enforcement it's not a question of "should".

[sloopyinca]

Sweet! Freedom by degree. What could possibly go wrong?

[Lost_In_Translation]

one would assume that the actual rules apply to us as well as the authorities, but you seem to argue it doesn't, so us proletariat need to keep our noses cleaner than those in charge.

[Sy]

"You left out the part where he explained how to illegally modify a rifle he later sold to a customer."

You left out the part where he specifically stated that it the customer should never, ever do that. And the weapon would then, not be 'illegal' but only available for purchase by a law enforcement agency.

[Pat D. King]

New study out, Raisinites jack off more than Liberals or Conservatives. Liberals do manage to get some hairy pussy by acting frail, weak and pretending to be sensitive (Radley Baldo). Conservatives tend to burn the pussy up and screw really hard, but have a tendency to lie to the bitch about getting married!

[hmm]

D-

[numeromancer]

Expelled.

[P Brooks]

I'm pretty sure Nassau County was also the setting for the bullshit story somebody (John?) linked the other day, about the woman arrested for taking photos of a display at an airport.

Teh scary TerrrrruhPlotz is evvawhar!!!11

Officer Fail-ting's buddy probably couldn't get through the background check; somebody should put Chief Inspector Bloomberg on the case.

[P Brooks]

"Fortuitous"?

That's just good old-fashioned heads up Professionalism!

Gazing into my crystal ball, I foresee a headline reading, "Officer Who Climbed Fence to Retrieve Child's Wayward Kite and Uncovered Thirty Million Dollars' Worth of Drugs and Illicit Guns to Receive Commendation From President Today.

[Lorenzo]

Incompetent is bad.
Malevolent is worse.
Incompetence leavened with malevolence is par for the course.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"In this day and age, police are given quite a bit of leeway," said Alexander H. Lindsay Jr., a defense attorney and former federal prosecutor. "Whenever law enforcement is executing a warrant, the safety of the officers in question is always a primary consideration."

I always hear that. If the safety of the officers is the greatest concern, then they really should just shoot everyone first and then check the bodybags to make sure they got their suspect. That's the safest bet, save not conducting raids at all. And obviously that's not an option.

[Brett L]

I am unable to figure out why they don't just, I don't know, watch the house and arrest exercise the warrant when there's one guy home. You cannot convince me that any surveillance has been done when they execute a warrant on a place where the suspect doesn't live. I think judges should require video surveillance of premises where no-knock raids will be conducted, identifying the subject of the warrant and other persons who are believed to be a danger to those executing the warrant. Also, law enforcement agencies should have to regularly publish statistics of wrongly executed warrants and executed warrants that resulted in violence towards the officers serving them. I would be astounded to find that there are more officers endangered than misserved warrants.

[P Brooks]

This country is fucked. It's morons, all the way down.
...Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has indicated recently she plans to delay the deadline for states to comply until at least January 2013. House Republicans wrote to Napolitano this week expressing their displeasure at the delay.

"The goal of the REAL ID Act is to prevent another 9/11-type attack by disrupting terrorist travel," wrote House Judiciary chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas), House Homeland Security chairman Peter King (R-N.Y.) and terrorism subcommittee chairman James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.).

"The REAL ID Act has a multitude of national security, public safety, and immigration benefits, and has helped states upgrade their licenses. Unfortunately the Administration has not only granted extensions of REAL ID implementation deadlines, but has pushed for a repeal of REAL ID."

The congressmen argue that had the law previously taken effect as planned it would have been possible to identify Saudi Arabian terrorist suspect Khalid Ali-M Aldawsari, who was arrested in Texas last week, when he used a fraudulent birth certificate to obtain a driver's license.

"Until REAL ID is fully implemented, terrorists will continue to exploit this vulnerability to accomplish heinous purposes," the letter states.

[zoltan]

But Republicans want more freedom!

[Bee Tagger]

Has anyone thought of the floor in all of this? Sounds like it may have been put upon by the occupants!

[rather]

lol

[rather]

A family wakes up to cops in their home due to a wrong-door drug raid

It happens. Did they leave their coffee and doughnuts to make -up for their little boo-boo?

[Heroic Mulatto]

No offense, Radley, but did you even read the first link? Everything in the article points to the fact that the raid occurred in Springhill, NOVA SCOTIA.

I think "Staff Sgt. Roddie Macdonald ... RCMP H Division Federal Drug Section" should have tipped you off right there. You couldn't be a more Canadian with that name unless you were this guy.

[Rock Action]

Can't get any more Canadian? Why did that bring this guy to mind?

http://thehockeyguys.net/wp-co.....Donald.jpg

[rather]

Nova Scotian are the friendliest Canadians just behind Newfoundlanders. When the cops raid the latter's homes they bring beer and diapers

[D'oh]

Some cops (RCMP) ain't quite that friendly in Western Canada. Cop kicks guy in the face - just because he can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLo18EcZxsY

[rather]

He won't walk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shj2_5zJ9yw&NR=1

[johnl]

Thanks for pointing that out because I couldn't understand how something like this could have been allowed to happen in the USA: """After the apology, Macdonald said the officers continued on to the correct house, and even returned to the mistaken house later to apologize further."""

[Tulpa]

Goddam Canadian politeness!

[Mensan]

Wait a minute! Are you saying he wasn't from the Massachusetts division of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police?

[Aresen]

Goddammit! Canada finally makes the Balko Blacklist and we can't even get credit for it!

[juris imprudent]

That's what happens when your cops apologize. Take that as a lesson.

[rather]

*Scotians*

[Mr Obama]

....under my watch with my personal approval. I am ushering in a New Era of law enforcement. Act first, ask questions later.

[The Hamilton]

F**k tha police....

[Aresen]

Eeeeewwwwww! No thanks!

I've managed to stay disease free so far.

[The Thinking Man's NASCAR]

Whenever I think of the combination of inappropriate use of SWAT tactics and wrong-door raids, I've always inevitable reminded of this scene from the film Brazil.

The fact that this scene, which was meant to be considered ridiculously over the top 20 years ago when it was made, is a reasonable facsimile of modern policing in this country terrifies me.

[The Thinking Man's NASCAR]

Also, this is a good example of why you should always proofread after rewording a post. Whoops.

[rather]

wait, no one is calling you an ignorant cunt for your grammar error? 😉

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Come on little girl. Wipe away that crocodile tear, and I'll buy you an ice cream.

[rather]

Sorry, Uncle Pietzsche but my cunt isn't crying

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Unless we can stretch the definition of "crying" to include a constant flow of creamy exudate.

[rather]

STFU and lick it up bitch

[rather]

Rectal's Pickling Mix. Only $5.99 a can.

[one of the a'holes]

... rather the retard is baaaack!

[rather]

one of the a'holes, I take issue with your handle because of the proliferation of assholes on this site. How will I ever tell you apart form the other jackasses?

[Cause]

he's an a-hole, you stupid, vapid, shriveled, pickled cunt. 🙁 So sad for you....:(

[rather]

🙁 x2
Now I'm really pissed-off

[one of the a'holes]

rather/rectal dear, I don't really care that you take issue with my handle. You've been changing your many labels and endearments, from "retards" to "assholes" and now "jackasses"...?

Here's a hint - you can tell me from the other "assholes" "retards" and "jackasses" 'cuz I use "a'holes" in my comments to you. That should be simple enough even for you to understand.

rather|3.6.11 @ 3:11AM|#

🙁 x2
Now I'm really pissed-off

That's good... now will you be so kind as to actually just piss off? Thanks in advance.

'Cuz truthfully, it's becoming kinda monotonous whupping and trumping your whiny, victimy, pickled cunt/pussy comments.

[rATHER]

Bitch-you would miss me

[rATHER]

Well, I would miss me. I love you my little cunt pickler.

[rather]

I know you do baby, and so does everyone who sees your constant spoofs.

[Shelby]

You appear to be mistaken. That link is not to "a reasonable facsimile", it is to a satire. "A reasonable facsimile" would have entailed threatening the wife, not offering her a receipt. The latter would suggest a far more accountable, and civilized, police than actually exist.

[Shelby]

You appear to be mistaken. That link is not to "a reasonable facsimile", it is to a satire. "A reasonable facsimile" would have entailed threatening the wife, not offering her a receipt. The latter would suggest a far more accountable, and civilized, police than actually exist.

[Extended Warren T]

Florida legislator wants to make taking photos of farmland illegal.

--Simpson said he doesn't think that "innocent" roadside photography would be prosecuted even if the bill is passed as introduced.

Farmers are a common-sense people," he said. "A tourist who stops and takes a picture of cows -- I would not imagine any farmer in the state of Florida that cares about that at all." --

Farmers that aren't you Mr. Simpson. I mean you support the thing so obviously you have a shortage of common sense. And of course cops, well I'm sure we can count on the new professionalism to keep them from using a new excuse to arrest people as a new excuse to arrest people.

http://fltrib.com/photographin.....enate-bill

[rather]

I'm sure he meant only photographs of naked and unripened children
vegetables. If the corn is the husk, and the potato in the ground, A-OK

[Shelby]

On the other hand, if the corn is in the hole...

[Obama-Era Justice Dept]

God-fucking dammit, let's just make cameras illegal except in the hands of government officials! Stop clinging to your cameras. There is NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT protecting camera ownership!

[CanonNikonOlympusFujiPAC]

Where do we send our campaign contributions O-Mighty-O?

[rATHER]

Who will make the pron?

[An Obama-Era Decent Society]

An indirect benefit of the camera ban. Michelle approves.

[Michelle]

It's a-OK as long as they use fat-free milk for enemas

[Make that warm--ooooh]

[rather]

Warm? Does it help you fall asleep?

[rATHER]

Porn is for little boys with small dicks. My Daddy never used porn, he just used my sour cunt.

[rather]

Does that turn you on? You seemed obsessed with your late phraseology. Do you masturbate more to that thought than calling me a whore?

I bet you role play daddy,lol

Fuck me daddy-I'm a bad girl

[Ray]

I've been following these bullshit raids and I hear a lot of bitching about them but what can actually be done? Outside of suing the Police who don't actually lose any money it just comes out of the taxpayer slush fund. I would say introduce a bill that says if you're part of an abuse of power lawsuit everyone involved from the cops to the judge who signed the warrant have to pay the judgement out of their own pockets.

[CatoTheElder]

Yeah, suing the cops just perpetuates a cycle of abuse.

Cops abuse a citizen, citizen successfully sues the the cops, and then what happens? Cops abuse more citizens for asset forfeitures.

The offending cops also get a paid vacation while awaiting disposition of an "investigation" that will ultimately absolve them of responsibility.

[Ray]

It will only stop when they start getting hit in the wallet. That's the only thing that will make this kind of thing end.

[Sy]

Agreed. You get the shit-brained, retard, roid-raging, face-stomping donutForce you deserve. If you're not giving a shit about your local elections now, just wait until your city is bankrupt and your taxes make up the difference. It hurts to be stupid/oblivious/apolitical.

[dunphy]

What can be done is legislation, among other things. Also, if it's a sheriff's office, the sheriff is usually elected. Elect another one.

I used to work in a state that had very strict laws (yes laws) on search warrants. If a dept. won't enact responsible policies, then there are laws, etc.

Remember, lots of agencies do have such policies. They don't end up in a Balko column. We have to, for example, use at least 3 independent sources for address verification.

Also, let's remember you can't do jackshit to judges. You can whinge and say cops get away with everything bla bla bla, but that is not true. With judges, it generally is true. See: absolute immunity.

[heller]

Fuck yeah! Because democracy worked the first time when the fucksticks were elected! But this time will be different!

[dunphy]

fuck yeah! because the perfect is the enemy of the good. democracy doesn't always work, or work as well as it could. it's the worst system in the world, except for all the others. democracy, along with rule of law and protection of minority rights is our system, and it's what we got brotha.

you can whinge about it on a website or you can understand that there are things that can and are being done.

democracy isn't a guarantee of perfect leaders, perfect policy, etc.

and again, looking only at the negatives ignores the positives. i can state that i've been on scores of warrants, and i've never gone to the wrong address or seen any that have in my agencies, in 20 + yrs.

fight the WOD and demand accountability

[Ray]

That's great dunphy but something like this happens every week. And it's not just raiding the wrong address it's intimidation like the Nassau county case mentioned above. Good cops have become the exception.

[dunphy]

if you believe good cops have become the exception, then you have fallen prey to a common fallacy. You don't read 1,000 articles about warrants done right, w/o a hitch, and with due diligence. You read about the exceptions, not the rule, and you assume the exception is the rule. I dont' respond to stuff when shit is going well. I respond to mayhem, carnage, dispute, dischord, death (went to a firearms suicide the other day), etc. Do I therefore say that this is the rule, not the exception?

No. I can know that for every woman that blows her head off (which is a special rarity because women tend to use pills, not guns, and when they shoot - prefer not to leave a mess, but i digress), 1000's do not. I know that for every X I respond to there are Y examples of that not happening.

Balko doesn't write about the thousands of well executed warrants or well executed uses of force or...

He writes about the bad stuff. It's the old man bites dog thang.

Get out of yer house and go do a couple of ride a longs with the cops. It might change your mind. Changed mine. I thought the EXACT same thing you do, until I actually investigated myself and did some ride a longs. I subsequently decided to get into law enforcement and it was a great decision. Overwhelmingly, I work with well meaning, conscientious people.

[heller]

The problem is that jack shit is being done to prevent these problems from happening. We need more accountability in the system, not a symbolic changing of the guards.

[Ray]

Ding we have a winner. Electing a new sheriff is absolutely meaningless when they come from the same pool of people.

[Tulpa]

Overwhelmingly, I work with well meaning, conscientious people.

What heller said. I don't think Radley intends to hate on all cops everywhere (though with Reason's clientele, it doesn't take much to trigger that response). Radley's point is that police department officials and even moreso, police unions, seem uninterested at best and positively hostile at worst to any punishment of the few bad cops out there.

[dunphy]

except that's laughable at best.

police dept. officials are not only often open to punishing bad cops, they relish it. it's a longstanding joke in law enforcement amongst patrol etc. that the fastest way to promotion is to get a cop suspended. i could tell you stories of malicious (to put it mildly) attempts to punish cops that would blow your mind. the unions are like defense attorneys. their job is to protect officers against bogus complaints, and when complaints are valid, to get them the best possible representation. that's their JOB. no cop i know wants to work with a corrupt or an incompetent cop.

i'll give you a few examples. we had one sgt. who has never worked a day in patrol beyond probationary period (classic - applying to admin cop-o-crat position as soon as they could), make a completely bogus cowardice complaint against one of the bravest officers i have ever worked with . this is the only officer that would go with me into a burning building to pull people out - the fire dept. hadn't arrived yet, and people were jumping out windows, breaking legs, etc. this complaint was RIDICULOUS. and she was eventually exonerated. but she was put on admin leave for 6 fucking months while it went on, had to check in every day, was prohibited from telephoning anybody in the dept while on admin leave, etc. etc. another guy i work with got his job back a year after firing for a completely bogus DV that was thrown out of court pretty quickly, but at that point he had already been fired and had to fight to get his job back

you aren't going to read about any of that in balko's columns, that's not his thang, and that's fine. but to say that this gives people like you a one-sided view of the situation is a gross understatement.

i, and most guys i work with WISH we had video cameras in our cars. we're not afraid of getting disciplined for bad acts, we're afraid of getting in trouble for shit we did not do.

currently, in the city of seattle, the mayor and city council members have expressed desires to punish an officer for merely expressing his opinion (darn that pesky 1st amendment) about the city's "social justice" program.

this same officer has worked a diverse neighborhood for years with a spotless record, but the admin is painting him as a bigot who needs to go

this is the reason why i'm glad i am union

[Tulpa]

dunphy, you act as if Radley is cherry picking stories of cops not getting disciplined (beyond admin leave with pay). Where are the stories of cops who commit acts on a par with what Mr Balko writes about who actually DO get fired/prosecuted?

[Ray]

And I have done ride along before. The company I work for also sponsored a citizens police academy that I participated in for two weeks. I was kicked off the ride along due to the fact that the cops I was with ignored a guys request to have them search his vehicle. I raised holy he'll about and nothing I mean zero happened to these cops. The next week I was pulled over because they said my car matched a hit and run suspect. When I personally refused a search of my car the lady cop told me she could detain me while she waited for anwarrant. Only after I called a lawyer while waiting on the road and had him say on speaker phone he was coming to the scene did she let me go. Cops are out of control. I've been harassed for open carry and for video recording. So spare me that cops do it for the satisfaction of helping people.

[dunphy]

and that sucks. some cops are corrupt and some dept's have a culture of same. it aint true in my dept or any dept. i've worked for. i've dealt with corrupt defense attorneys, a very sleazy MD recently, etc. there's bad apples in every group, and god knows that includes journalists from duranty on down.

i've been treated entirely respectfully by cops in my life. i thought they were fascists idiots because of my college classes, etc. not because of personal experience.

sucks that you dealt with some bad ones. i support open carry (as do most of my partners) and video recording.

[Tulpa]

i've been treated entirely respectfully by cops in my life.

Of course, you're a fellow cop!

And if 1 in every 100 passenger airplanes was falling out of the sky and killing everyone on board, the vast majority of people in the country would not be affected by this. That doesn't mean it's not a humongous problem.

[robc]

There is a better solution than democracy, although it probably requires democracy to implement. Remove any personal liability protections from cops.

Do a wrong address raid? YOU personally get sued. Not the city, not the PD, you got a big ass lien slapped on everything you own.

[heller]

Fucking accountability, how does it work?

[Ray]

Exactly correct.

[Tulpa]

Ear-tickling but no good in practice. Most of the cops involved in a raid have no access to the information necessary to verify that the address is correct, so it would not be appropriate to hold them personally liable for an address mistake.

[Tulpa]

Gorram Canadian politeness strikes again.

[Tulpa]

Gorram canuck politeness strikes again!

[P Brooks]

He should have been more careful to dot every i and cross every t with customers he doesn't know personally.

Those shoes were just screaming, "Fuck me! In the ASS!"

And that short little skirt, well, who wouldn't, if you know what I mean...

[NCPD]

Nice gun store you got there, be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

[hmm]

Remember, there's a war on cops going on.

At some point people are going to start wondering why there isn't a war on cops going on.

[WungoMungo]

lol, and the cops wonder why they are getting shot at in record numbers and why peopel rejoice everytime one gets clipped in the line of duty lol.

http://www.total-privacy.ie.tc

[dunphy]

are they? either there is or there isn't a war on cops. hmm, says there isn't. you say there is. based on the evidence i've seen, i'm going with hmm...

the pac NW where I work has seen some horrific amounts of cops being shot and shot at recently, as well as killed, but i see no evidence of a nationwide or local trend.

http://www.imdb.com is helpful (as to deaths, not to shootings that don't result in deaths).

the far left is playing into the war on cops meme as well, since it supports their "evil rightwing radio/tv personalities are driving people to shoot at cops and need to be stopped" meme.

i'm going to say - show me evidence. iow, cops are NOT being shot at in record #'s until I see evidence to the contrary. and note that violent crime, and cops being shot at was WAY higher in late 80's early 90's (see: crack wars etc.)

[hmm]

You're arguing with privacy bot... 🙂

[dunphy]

not familiar with him. thanks for the insight. i'm still learning about the players here.

[robc]

its a bot, it isnt a player.

[dunphy]

well, good to know. it failed the reason turing test i see

[juris imprudent]

I'm guessing the "peopel" is a feature, not a bug.

[dunphy]

lol. i meant ODMP.org not IMDB.com

although IMDB is a good site too

[dunphy]

and a propos of the "war on police" and the pac NW issues (clemmons killed 4 in one incident, we had the pierce county shooting also, the brenton shooting, the monford shooting and bombing/arson etc.

http://www.komonews.com/news/l.....height=282

[Almanian]

Oh, dunphy trolled on by? Shocker. Hi dunphy - nothing to see here, just move along...

[dunphy]

plenty to see here. misconduct... in two countries no less!

and a troll named almanian calling me a troll, too.

it's a festival of riches.

[Fact Checker]

Oh, dunphy came back and checked - how cute!

Run along until the next cop-related article, dunphy. You can defend the pigs again then.

[rather]

'Fact Checker', AKA hiding behind a handle, one thing you can say about dunphy is that he isn't a pussy.

[Tulpa]

You can't say he is one, but you can't say he isn't either. Without ID verification he's just an anonymous wanker like the rest of us.

[rather]

Just did

I know his name, city and that he's on 11 social networks.

[dunphy]

Oh really? What's my name? LOL you don't know who this is, it could be anyone...

[rather]

hmm, I'm not outing anyone, and anyone can pose as you. If you want to say who you are, that's your choice.

[Glenn Ross]

Come on, Balco. A few bullets to the heads of timeshare salesman will do this country a world of good.

First aid is for closers!

[????? ??????]

Thanks