Black Police Group Endorses Marijuana Legalization

Last week the National Black Police Association endorsed Proposition 19, the marijuana legalization initiative that will face California voters in November. The group's explanation was similar to the rationale give by the California NAACP when it endorsed the measure in late June:

Ron Hampton, the police association's executive director, said he decided the group should get behind the measure because it would eliminate laws that have a negative impact on the black community.

"It means that we will be locking up less African American men and women and children who are using drugs," said Hampton, a retired Washington, D.C., police officer with 25 years experience. "We've got more people in prison. We've got more young people in prison. Blacks go to jail more than whites for doing the same thing."

A recent Drug Policy Alliance study (PDF) documents the disproportionate racial impact of marijuana prohibition.

Comments

[R C Dean]

Gosh, we libertarian hardly ever get to play the race card.

I'm in.

[x,y]

Good for a laugh, sure, but not the kind of argument libertarians should be leading with. Unless of course you're one of those liberaltarians.

[PapayaSF]

I'll say. I really hate the "disproportionate racial impact" argument, which is often, if not usually, statistical b.s.

I remember one instance of a long newspaper investigation involving cops stopping people for drugs on I-95 (IIRC). Why, blacks were more often convicted after such stops than whites! It's racism!

Well, Mr. Bonehead Investigative Journalist, if innocent blacks were being unfairly stopped all the time due to racial bias, wouldn't their conviction rate be lower than that of whites? If anything it shows cops were only stopping blacks when they were damn sure, to avoid charges of racism. (I'm not defending the rightness of such stops or drug laws here.)

You also get absurdities such as claims that, because the black population somewhere is (e.g.) 20%, but an employer there only has 18% black employees, that it somehow "proves" he's 2% racist or something.

[Irresponsible Hater]

if innocent blacks were being unfairly stopped all the time due to racial bias, wouldn't their conviction rate be lower than that of whites?

This retarded theory only works if you assume juries aren't filled with morons that think an arrest means the accused must be guilty.

[PapayaSF]

Without any evidence other than the arrest itself?

[sage]

if innocent blacks were being unfairly stopped all the time due to racial bias, wouldn't their conviction rate be lower than that of whites?

I got three words for you: throwdown.

[PapayaSF]

Somehow I doubt that's very common for highway stops.

[Robert]

If statistical b.s. sells, sell it.

[Rhayader]

There are plenty of times when it's anything but "statistical BS". Stop-and-Frisk programs in big cities, for instance.

Also, as Irresponsible Hater pointed out, the presumption that improper stops result in fewer convictions is completely off base.

[PapayaSF]

Stop and Frisk would work the same way. Setting aside cops framing someone, if they stop people of one ethnicity for no other reason, while stopping people of another when they have a good reason, they'll have a higher percentage success rate for the latter. Yes, you might well get more convictions in the former group simply because of sheer numbers, but your percentage rate will be lower. That was the misapprehension in the article: that a higher percentage proved racism, when the opposite is more likely true.

[Byron]

You also get absurdities such as claims that, because the black population somewhere is (e.g.) 20%, but an employer there only has 18% black employees, that it somehow "proves" he's 2% racist or something.

Wouldn't that make him 10% racist?

[Robert]

Why shouldn't libertarians lead with that sort of argument? We should sell black to black, white to white, etc. -- whatever sells or is already sold. Much easier than selling something new to new clients.

[Episiarch]

How about nobody goes go to jail for doing the same consensual things?

"Hold it! Next man makes a move, the nigger gets it!"

"Listen to him, men. He's just crazy enough to do it!"

[BakedPenguin]

I think it was Bertrand Russell who stated something to the effect that the police should not become "clergy with clubs". Unfortunately, no one listened.

[Pip]

"Blacks go to jail more than whites for doing the same thing."

[citation needed]

[DesigNate]

Reading comprehension fail. Citation is provided in the article. (If it is to believed is another issue.)

[Pip]

"A recent Drug Policy Alliance study (PDF) documents the disproportionate racial impact of marijuana prohibition."

Report Highlights: Targeting Blacks for Marijuana
? In every one of the 25 largest counties in California, blacks are
arrested for marijuana possession at higher rates than whites,
typically at double, triple or even quadruple the rate of whites.
(pages 6-8, 12)
? U.S. government studies consistently find that young blacks use
marijuana at lower rates than young whites. (pages 5)
? In Los Angeles County, with nearly ten million residents and over a
quarter of California's population, blacks are arrested at over triple
the rate of whites. Blacks are less than 10 percent of L.A. County's
population, but they are 30 percent of the people arrested for
marijuana possession. (pages 6-8, 12)
? These racially-biased marijuana arrests are a system-wide
phenomenon, occurring in every county and nearly every police
department in California, and elsewhere. The arrests are not mainly
the result of personal bias or racism on the part of individual patrol
officers ? who are doing what they are assigned to do.
(pages 9,11)
? Marijuana possession arrests have serious consequences. They
create permanent "drug arrest" records that can be easily found on
the Internet by employers, landlords, schools, credit agencies,
licensing boards, and banks. (pages 9-11)
? The "scarlet letter" stigma of criminal records for marijuana
possession can create barriers to employment and education for
anyone, including whites and middle class people. (pages 10-11)
? Criminal records for marijuana possession severely limit the life
chances of the poor, the young, and especially of young blacks and
Latinos. (pages 10-11)

There's no proof that it's due to racism. I mean really, I have NEVER seen a white person dealing weed on the street. But I see black people do it. maybe if they ran their business a little more like a tupperware party they wouldn't get disproportionately get popped.

Correlation isn't causation, bitches.

[Pip]

And my point is that blacks are not "doing the same thing". I have never seen a white guy dealing on a street corner because they know better. But I've seen countless blacks dealing on the street corner. It's clear they are not being busted for doing the same thing. They are doing very different things. Selling on the corner is stupid.

[Hugh Akston]

Black dealers really should learn a thing or two from white dealers and only deal out of their suburban homes, SUVs, and gated condo communities. That is if the people at the office aren't buying.

[Coeus]

Nice snark, but complete bullshit. Plenty of non-retards (of every hue) deal out of their houses instead of on the street corner. Be it in suburbia or the projects.

[hmm]

You injected the word racism. The original sentence,

"Blacks go to jail more than whites for doing the same thing."

that is then followed by,

A recent Drug Policy Alliance study (PDF) documents the disproportionate racial impact of marijuana prohibition.

With a study that shows the disproportion between the races and the similar infringements. You injected racism with respect to citation.

If you are refering to my "Racist!" comment up thread, that's a joke. I know sarcasm in text is a bitch, but I've posted some form of "That's racist!" for every article that involves some sort of race issue.

Asking for citation is still fucking retarded and should die a slow painful internet death like fisking.

[hmm]

html tag owned, enjoy sorting that one out...

[Tony]

No racism involved... it's just that black people are too stupid to deal their weed and get away with it. Or something? FTR I think relative poverty is much more the issue than institutional racism, not that they aren't related.

[Irresponsible Hater]

FTR I think relative poverty is much more the issue than institutional racism

No shit.

No racism involved... it's just that black people are too stupid to deal their weed and get away with it.

No, it's because their neighborhoods are infested with police.

[Coeus]

No doubt poverty plays a part, but it's the culture of stupidity that has the most affect. You rarely see poor trailer owners dealing meth at the entrance to the fucking trailer park. That's mostly inner city stupidity.

[Rhayader]

That's mostly inner city stupidity.

Either that, or inner city ingenuity amidst a thriving and competitive market. You make more money pimping your wares than you make sitting inside a 4th floor walk-up waiting for a phone call.

[hmm]

There is a half of a metric ton of economic data on just this. If you want a cite take 5 minute and cruise google or an academic repository of some kind.

Then go die in a fucking fire for playing the MNG/John cite game.

[Pip]

Look up^^^

[hmm]

Racists

[-]

There hasn't been a mosque story in over three hours. What's up?

[Kroneborge]

yeah, who cares about the WoD, we've got a mosque to cover

[-]

Oh, you want to talk about a mosque? How's this for a new angle: Angry white rubes from the Tea Party sit back and laugh as sophisticated New York liberals go bonkers over a non-Christian community center.

[Apogee]

It's important because they'll be dealing hash from the mosque.

[waffles]

mosque? moskau? nope, doesn't ring a bell.

[hmm]

Mosquerbating takes it out of ya.

[sage]

You'll go blind!

[Subsidize Me!]

I use Wikilube when I mosquerbate.

[Pro Libertate]

Hey, Mosquearena!

[MP]

It's pretty difficult to raise a child to be colorblind when there's a national black/latino/asian/indian/martian organization around every corner, closely followed by a 1,000,000 pages of law giving special privileges to every non-white group imaginable.

[Kroneborge]

That's why if you are white, you will probably want to end up being gay. That's the only way to get your piece of the minority pie.

[Subsidize Me!]

I have some friends who turned gay. In addition to automatic style and artistic expertise, I thought it they did it for the travel perks. I guess it really is all about status upgrades with those people.

[BakedPenguin]

I worked with a girl who told me that she always told flight attendants she was "family", even though she was straight. She said she got a lot of free drinks, peanuts, etc.

[Subsidize Me!]

That's awesome. Free drinks in-flight saves like 30 bucks. But I'd imagine some of the spectacularly shitty passengers the stews deal with make them willing to reward courtesy even without the "family" thing.

Steven Slater has forever changed the image I have of gay flight attendants, and I hope the same is true for all of America. That guy deserves a fucking statue and a parade.

[Coeus]

No shit, that was like the dream quit. I picture the whole "fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you're cool...I'm out" from half baked, just with a slight lisp.

[Robert]

You mean she claimed to be related to them? Or do you mean "family" as in Mafia?

[BakedPenguin]

"Family" is gay slang for other gay people.

[Rhayader]

And what, flight attendants are so overwhelmingly gay that this is universally understood?

Wow, never knew that.

[Pip]

^^^^^

[HarHar]

I'll say. I really hate the "disproportionate racial impact" argument, which is often, if not usually, statistical b.s.

True.

PDF: "Police departments deploy most patrol and narcotics police to certain neighborhoods, usually designated "high crime." These are disproportionately low-income, and disproportionately African-American and Latino neighborhoods. It is in these neighborhoods where the police make most patrols, and where they stop and search the most vehicles and individuals, looking for "contraband" of any type in order to make an arrest. The item that young people in any neighborhood are most likely to possess, which can get them arrested, is a small amount of marijuana. In short, the arrests are racially-biased mainly because the police are systematically "fishing" for arrests in only some neighborhoods, and methodically searching only some "fish." This produces what has been termed "racism without racists."

So the report is claiming that there's more crime in black and "latino" neighborhoods, so there's more police there. Also, if you go downtown and buy pot from a stranger or semi-stranger, there's about a 90% chance that he's black or from C. or S. America.

The Marijuana Arrest Research Project has some serious problems with simple arithmetic throughout the report, though.

Example:

Alemeda County

Black Mj Poss Arrest Rate per  100,000 Blacks,  04-08 = 175
White Mj Poss  Arrest Rate per  100,000 Whites,   04-08 = 106
"Percentage that  the Black Rate  is Higher than  the White Rate" (quote) = 166.

It's actually 66% higher, not 166% higher; this is a common technique that dishonest people use. "100% higher" is double, not the same amount.

...laws that have a negative impact on the black community.

Unlike the the racist spokesman of that racist organization, I think the drug laws should be eliminated because they're barbaric for everybody.

[Hugh Akston]

Unlike the the racist spokesman of that racist organization, I think the drug laws should be eliminated because they're barbaric for everybody.

Truly you are a beacon of enlightenment and understanding.

In the meantime, I think the fact that an organization of active police officers has endorsed the idea of de-escalating the War on Drugs and legalizing consensual actions pretty remarkable.

[sloopyinca]

It may remarkable, but that still doesn't change the fact that they endorse it FOR THE WRONG REASON.

Their concern with equal protection ends when your pigment level drops below a certain %.

Again, I guess this shouldn't be another of those Argument: good vs perfect deals again, but it concerns me that a leader of any law-enforcement group would decry a law for racist reasons. The NAACP, I could care less about because their group is supposed to be based on opportunism and advocacy. A policemen's group is supposed to be above that kind of crap.

Case in point: I wonder where the Asian poricemen's group comes down on this issue? With their pot conviction #'s being so much lower than whites or blacks, I'd be surprised if he wasn't against prop 19.

It's not about what's right or wrong with these guys, although I'm pleased when anyone comes out in support of this legislation.

[Robert]

But is it so bad when they come out and say it's for racist reasons? "We're [for] the blacks, so we're for anything that's for the blacks." Or does saying it make it even worse?

[sloopyinca]

Strangely enough, that's actually a tough question to answer.

[HarHar]

Is so bad? No, I don't much mind the fact that they have racist organizations and racist reasons for doing something - I don't curl up in a little ball when I hear the word "racist" because that's just a modern fad. What I don't like is the now-standard hypocrisy of pretending that the NAACP, NBPA, similar orgs, and their members are not - can't be! - racist because they're not white. It's a very stupid - and racist - concept.

[Byron]

When the statement comes from a group that identifies itself by race, there's a strong likelihood the statement is going to be race-based, too.

[Byron]

And yes, it does make it worse, because people are frequently stupid and illogical. They'll be able to refute the weak, racist logic in their own heads and then jump straight to 'ergo, it should not be legalized'.

[G. Angbanga]

Ron Hampton, the police association's executive director, said he decided the group should get behind the measure because it would eliminate laws that have a negative impact on the black community.

Putting my homies away for busting a cap has a negative effect, too. Hampton behind eliminating those laws, too?

[Irresponsible Hater]

FAIL
Next.

[G. Angbanga]

Putting my homies away for busting a cap packing heat has a negative effect, too. Hampton behind eliminating those laws, too?

Better?

[Hugh Akston]

He hasn't said anything about ferret legalization either. Fuck that guy!

[G. Angbanga]

Word.

[Apogee]

ferret legalization, teh single most important issue facing America after the WOD and the mosque.

Oh, and about 23M other things.

[Mosquevite Sandwich]

The reason blacks are disproportionately arrested for drug offenses is because the high crime areas are heavily populated by black people.

[The Progressive Left?]

That's a feature, not a bug.

[bagoh20]

Just automatically release every second Black arrested, regardless of evidence. Poof! Bias fixed. And I don't even have a college degree.

[Irresponsible Hater]

Or just stop arresting people for victimless crimes in the first place.

[BakedPenguin]

And just release the people in jail / prison who are there strictly for victimless "crimes".

This is a libertarian board, right? Is it really that hard to get?

[Coeus]

This is a libertarian board, right?

Most of the time...

[bagoh20]

Just automatically release every second Black arrested, regardless of evidence. Poof! Bias fixed. And I don't even have a college degree.

[bagoh20]

No wait! Just do it once. We don't want a freaking race war.

[Fire Tiger]

In Response to the National Black Police Association's request, the DEA has begun purging their Most Wanted list of all non-hispanics.

(Seriously it's like a wheres waldo book trying to find a non-hispanic)

[Marc]

Check out all the racist pigs commenting over on Police One. Some would say it's difficult to prove that racial bias accounts for the disparity--for them this should prove very enlightening.

http://www.policeone.com/drug-.....alization/

[Marc]

Check out all the racist pigs commenting over on Police One. Some would say it's difficult to prove that racial bias accounts for the disparity--for them this should prove very enlightening.

[tired dog]

What do the white, asian, polynesian islander, native American, latino, mulatto and glbtg police groups say?

[wamsagongo]

new york city is the marijuana frisk and arrest capital of the world.

them evil browkinned people get popped with permanent record and no chance for future employment. way to go team. over a friggin joint.

and to think n.y.c. used to be liberal and hip.

[Millionsix]

National Black Police Association ?????? Oh Jesus you've got to be kidding.

[Adidas High Top originalsouton]

the group should get behind the measure because it would eliminate laws that have a negative impact on the black community.