Happy Guantanamo Closing Day!

In case you missed the nonevent, the military prison for suspected terrorists and other assorted "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, did not close today. It may be years before it does, assuming  President Obama ultimately delivers on that promise. In any case, the policy of keeping people locked up indefinitely without trial will continue, supplemented by a policy of keeping them locked up even if they are tried and acquitted. The New York Times reports that "the Obama administration has decided to continue to imprison without trials nearly 50 detainees…because a high-level task force has concluded that they are too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release." The task force said about 40 other detainees "should be prosecuted for terrorism or related war crimes," but that does not mean they will be released if they are found not guilty. The remaining 110 or so detainees are supposed to be "repatriated or transferred to other countries for possible release," but it's not clear when that might happen. About 30 of the men are from Yemen, and the Obama administration stopped sending detainees back to that country in light of the Christmas Day airplane bombing plot that originated there.

This is the same mishmash of approaches to War on Terror detainees that the Bush admininstration took: release some, try some in civilian court, try some before military tribunals, keep the rest imprisoned indefinitely. Maybe the proportions will be different. A few weeks ago, I asked, "What's the difference between Obama's anti-terrorism policies and Bush's?" Still wondering.

Comments

[LibertyBill]

Hell will freeze over before Gitmo closes.

[Mike Laursen]

Well, no. They just have to stop putting new prisoners there and wait until the current ones die. Or maybe help them along toward that goal.

[?]

What's the difference between Obama's anti-terrorism policies and Bush's?

Bush's were in or near a truck.

[Barack Hussein Obama]

I say mine with reverb. Bush had a Texas accent.

[??]

The difference is, Bush actually meant all that stuff that came out of his mouth.

Also, he never promised the pacifascist traitors (that's you idiots) that he'd deal with known terrorists as if they were mere criminals. Neither did he ever pretend that all attacks on America are America's fault like you traitors.

You made your bed in your coffin, traitors. Now lie in it and rot.

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

Would you kindly comment on the correct fate of the known not terrorists that we are are still holding at that facility?

While we're at it, how about a comments on the military lawyers who've resigned rather than take part in the charade that has been the last three or so round of status determination tribunal?

For some of those accused individual, the criminal justice system may not be the answer, but we are obliged to do a credible job of sorting the guilty from the innocent. And the President putting on his "decider" cap most assuredly does not count.

[Barack Hussein Obama]

It is Bush's fault it isn't closed yet.

[Hugh Akston]

The remaining 110 or so detainees are supposed to be "repatriated or transferred to other countries for possible release," but it's not clear when they might happen.

If these guys weren't terrorists before they were picked up, they sure as shit will be when they are released.

[Aresen]

In other news:

-Congress balancss the budget.
-S.S. Titanic arrives in New York.
-Atlantis rises.

[Dumble Door]

Wow, Id have to say its about time, But also, I will believe it when I see it.

RT
http://www.total-anonymity.de.tc

[PIRS]

"Wow, Id have to say its about time, But also, I will believe it when I see it."

For once, I actually agree with the Spambot

[Tulpa]

Anonymity Bot doesn't seem to have a sarcasm detector.

[Colonel_Angus]

What does it matter whether it closes, if the prisoners will just be moved somewhere else?

And, if they were caught fighting, which most of them probably were, why should I care if they rot in prison?

[PIRS]

My understanding is that the reason they were sent to Guantanamo Bay in the first place was that, if they never landed on U.S. Soil they would not (in theory) be subject to our justice system. Guantanamo Bay is in Cuba right? Cuba is a country without a good track record in civil rights. Therefore it would be easier to justify keeping these people behind bars without a jury trial since that is the wonderful example given us by the Castro brothers.

[Hugh Akston]

What is the legal status of our Airbases? I know that Consulates and Embassies are considered American soil, is the same true of our permanent bases?

And, if they were caught fighting, which most of them probably were, why should I care if they rot in prison?

It's called "Due Process of Law." If you don't object when they come for the terrorists, who will object when they come for you?

[PIRS]

"What is the legal status of our Airbases? I know that Consulates and Embassies are considered American soil, is the same true of our permanent bases?"

I think this depends upon the status agreement with that particular country. For example, if you are sent to an airbase in Saudi Arabia you better not take any porno magazines or alcohol with you. It is legal in our country but we are subject to Saudi Law if you are there.

[kwais]

Porno and alcohol are illegal to us in the Middle East because of general order #1, not because of Saudi law.

You can legally buy alcohol in Iraq, you just can't have it on a US base. We are more Taliban than the Iraqis.

[Colonel_Angus]

If they ever come for me in some kind of war, I really don't expect a whole lot from they-em.

[DoDoGuRu]

It's called "Due Process of Law."

Due process of law... where exactly? The nationless wilderness where they were caught? Or the communist fortress where they're being held?

Unless you mean to suggest that anyone caught anywhere or captive in any place is an American criminal... which seems to constitute a rather expansive view of American hegemony.

[Hugh Akston]

If they ever come for me in some kind of war, I really don't expect a whole lot from they-em.

My apologies for the vague referent. When I said "they" I was referring to the US Government.

Unless you mean to suggest that anyone caught anywhere or captive in any place is an American criminal... which seems to constitute a rather expansive view of American hegemony.

I suppose that depends on by whom they were caught, and by whom they are being held, and what kind of constitution that nation has in place.

[Mike G]

The legal status of Guantanamo is, when Castro came to power we kept it, and he hasn't dared taking it back. And there are walls, and there are men who guard those walls, and it is because there such men that...

[00stephen]

(I wondered when someone was going to make that reference...)

You CAN'T HANDLE the truth!!

[00stephen]

Col. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[Kolohe]

The previous administration (not sure of the current one) tried to have it both ways with the legal status of Cuba. In Boumediene_v._Bush the majority opinion said that this was too cute by half, and that the de facto sovereignty over Gitmo was good enough for government work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boumediene_v._Bush

[jester]

Legalisms suck because they distort the whole essence of what is right.

[hmm]

Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday to You
Happy Birthday Dear Guantanamo Closing
Happy Birthday to You.

[Ziggy]

who has fucked over the left harder in this first presidential year:
A)the trusted voters of massachusetts

B) The Supreme Court

C) Obama

I think The Messiah has fucked them over the most, what of his main campaign promises has he delivered on? The only one that looked promising was HC reform and that was after not doing most of the things he said he would do, ie. cspan, not get in bed with the pharmaceuticals, insurers etc.

[Anonymous]

Change

[Paul]

If I had the energy I'd dig up the thread during the 2008 Presidential Campaign (which started sometime in 2005) where I was asking what the point of closing Guantanamo was if Obama wasn't going to change the policies that created it...

[jester]

How come none of them died in that cold snap?

[00stephen]

Because there wasn't a cold snap; the science has been settled.

[Tim Starr]

The difference is that the Dems aren't retweeting "War is the Health of the State" from libertarians in order to discredit Obama.

[PIRS]

This provides Republicans the oportunity (if they want to take it) to rebrand themselves as the anti-war party.

[VInny B.]

TThe only reason Gitmo is still open because of the policies of the last 8 years, which were out of Obama's control. It is simply too soon for Obama to solve the problem of the terrorists being held there, without charge and without trial, because of Bush. It's Bush's fault Obama could not close it like he promised. Obama did not realize how dangerous those terrorists were, because Bush never said so.

[00stephen]

Heck, Ronnie had the hostages freed within minutes of being sworn in. 😉 Yet it's been almost 14 months since 'Bama's election and he can't even give provide his supporters a timetable of when he'll even *start* winding down internment operations at Gitmo?

Clever you are though. Maybe the first four years were for Hope... and he'll ask for another four to effect Change? Yeah, as if.

Or perhaps Obama has matured to realize there's more pragmaticism to the Col Jessep quote above than the bama fanboys would like to admit.

[Schempf]

mmmmm....trolly

[Vince]

Damn! Why didn't that effin' Bush TELL me not to lick that frozen lamp-post?!

[Ron L]

""What's the difference between Obama's anti-terrorism policies and Bush's?"
Simple:
Bush = 4 letters
Obama = 5 letters

[Vince]

Oh, Obama is 4 letters all right!

[ic]

Sounds worse than show trials in which the accused is determined guilty before the trial. Now the accused is locked up when he is actually found not guilty in a trial. Which country are we living in now that jails a man who is found not guilty in a court of law?

And he was supposed to be a constitutional law professor?

[anonymous]

"Constitutional law professor" for a leftist means someone who learns the proper rationalizations and methods of sophistry to justify ignoring what the constitution demands.

[bleek obummer]

Is it possible Obama will stick to one of his campaign promises? Not a chance.

[jgreene]

GITMO is the ideal detention center to hold and interrogate terrorists and enemy combatants who do not qualify as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.

It is not going to be closed by Obama or the next President who will be elected in 2012.

[Jeffersonian]

Thank you.

[heller]

"because a high-level task force has concluded that they are too difficult to prosecute but too dangerous to release."

Due process: trial by task force.

[Tulpa]

What's the difference between Obama's anti-terrorism policies and Bush's?

One was universally condemned as a travesty by the press, and the other is pretty much ignored by the press.

[cmace]

If they'd given them the old "Ernesto "Che" Guevara" treatment and there'd no problem.

[jester]

"Ernesto "Che" Guevara" treatment

Where can I find the spa offering that? Is that how he got his 'look'?

[jester]

Gitmo is too big to fail. They'll just use some of that TARP money to keep it open.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Drop them from airplanes over Meccca.

[Jigzup]

What part of Obama do you not understand? That he is a muslim hell bent on destroying our economy for Allahs sake,or the fact that he is anti business for the same reason? Has he broken all of his promises? Yes! Has he improved one damn thing?No!
Brown will take him down..

[Bingo]

lol?

[gillicuty]

brown? as in scott brown? outside of mass and ca they guy is a solid democrat. you must belong to the party of stupid.

[Max]

Has Obama kept ANY of his specific promises? Really, I can't think of one.

[willis]

"A few weeks ago, I asked, "What's the difference between Obama's anti-terrorism policies and Bush's?" Still wondering"

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[hmm]

Wasn't GTMO started to get out from under the doctrine of where the flag flies the Constitution applies? I swore there was some sort of scandal or roe about it long ago.

Historian types?

[Chuakrdog]

The constitution doesn't apply to terrorists, nor should it. What part of that is so hard to understand? Gitmo is a fucking country club, compared to any middle east prison.

[Chuakrdog]

If you have to ask what the differences are, you aren't paying attention. Conferring constitutional protections on enemy combatants for one. Hint, you dont read terrorists the Fucking Miranda rights. You try them in a military court and then you shoot them. That is if you actually want to win.

[gillicuty]

and if they happen to be found not guilty in military court? what then? try them again and again until you get the verdict you want?

[joeschmo]

Chuakrdog - I guess the problem for some of us, without Neanderthal brains, is that some of these folks may not be terrorists to begin with.

[Ernie the Bear]

Yeah, but how are we supposed to know which ones until we shoot them?

[Tyler]

For what it's worth, just keep in mind that no constitution can grant or take away natural rights.

Even "terrorists" (keep in mind that "terrorist" is defined by the State in such a way that you and I may apply) are human beings whose natural rights should be respected.

And if "winning" requires me to disrespect my principles, then I don't count it as a victory at all.

[Tim]

The more we do crap like this, the more I consider them freedom fighters rather than terrorists.

[kwais]

PIRS|1.22.10 @ 7:00PM|#
"What is the legal status of our Airbases? I know that Consulates and Embassies are considered American soil, is the same true of our permanent bases?"

I think this depends upon the status agreement with that particular country. For example, if you are sent to an airbase in Saudi Arabia you better not take any porno magazines or alcohol with you. It is legal in our country but we are subject to Saudi Law if you are there.

Porno and alcohol are illegal to us in the Middle East because of general order #1, not because of Saudi law.

You can legally buy alcohol in Iraq, you just can't have it on a US base. We are more Taliban than the Iraqis.

[Keith Woods]

payment in full for all those that are a part of this. Your payment is to learn every conceiveable way to procure different forms of protein (meat) such as chickens, cows, goat, lamb, pig and other wild game as well. Then, when you've learned what finished products you can make a chicken into (some of you may actually be the cook so you'll actually know the recipe too) you'll have the opportunity to have understood to the fullest just how your ass is going to be procured in the afterlives to follow - a time and place when you are incarcerated by the Kernal (forever) and made to face the old chopping block by ol' man Sanders and his fine 12 herbs and spiced establishment. You will be forced to meet your meat literaly and figuratively, and to become that witch you eat so why don't you just hop up here onto my plate GOD says and I'll show you how the universe works - it's much like a concentration camp! First, you live as a human and try not to concentrate to hard - learn all the recipes you'll later be encorporated into, and then learn how to live with it for all the afterlives that come next along with the aftertaste of your future selves witch brings with it a greater understanding of just how usefull you are when dressed in a yummy chicken outfit and just how much that really suits you to a t-ee. It teaches you as well just how comodities like you are sold for a dime a dozen to the Kernal and the KFC corporation and other such Mac-ventures and you simply learn to live with your future concentration as if it's like a horrible summer camp from HELL. Chicken FINGERS is your destiny and you are on the MENU for sure here, while the detainees at GITMO are all to happy that they are the lucky some-things that will never be made into DUMB-plings like you folks. You really have to face this FACT and the only price that GITMO clients pay here is to live through your cruise of FICTION! Happy sailing, and remember: you are the SAILS of this ship; you're all the people so SOLD on SELLING everything in exchange for the hopes that you might get ahead when in fact you've really only sold the only ONE IMPORTANT thing that mattered - your principals, your morals, YOURSELVES; you've sold it all out, and for what? The temporary illusion of POWER and an infatuation with control over who get's to eat first and who get's to endulge and gorge themselves during the takedown of the next big carcass kill. You're all the BIGGEST LOOSERS here in this and you're all tearing at your own flesh every time you rip the meat off another chicken bone & only hope you're all feeling so special about your special (Mac) Sauce and you're all the BIGGEST Mac's of all! It was truely N I C E meating y'all!