DEA Arrests Medical Marijuana Grower in California

Last week, the Drug War Chronicle reports, the Drug Enforcement Administration made its first arrests related to medical marijuana since Attorney General Eric Holder promised not to prosecute people who are complying with state law. Agents seized 154 plants from Upper Lake, California, construction contractor Tom Carter. Carter is a patient authorized to use marijuana, and his wife told a local newspaper he also was growing marijuana for several other patients, which "primary caregivers" are allowed to do under state law (although the California Supreme Court tightened the definition of primary caregiver last fall). In addition to Carter, the DEA arrested a neighbor, Scott Feil, who used to run a medical marijuana dispensary; Feil's wife; and two other men, Steven Swanson and Brett Bassignani. The government alleges that a DEA informant arranged with Bassignani to buy some of Carter's marijuana, but Carter's attorneys say there's no firm evidence that he knew of or approved the deal. As with this month's DEA-assisted raids on medical marijuana dispensaries in Los Angeles and Culver City (which were followed by state charges against the dispensaries' owner), the details of the Carter case will show whether the DEA is respecting state law, as Holder said it would (and the Constitution requires), or continuing to undermine it.

California NORML has more here.

In some more bad medical marijuana news, Will Foster, who successfully challenged a 93-year sentence for growing cannabis to treat his rheumatoid arthritis, is back in Oklahoma and back in prison as a result of a dispute over the terms of his parole. His latest troubles started when he was arrested for growing marijuana in California, even though he was allowed to do so there as a patient with a doctor's recommendation.

I noted Foster's pending extradition in June. Ed Rosenthal has more here.

Comments

[R C Dean]

I got $20 that says every California pothead who voted for Obama in 2008 will do so again in 2012.

Not counting, of course, those who lose their eligibility to vote because Obama's Justice Department threw them in jail.

[Brandybuck]

Hey all you Reason editors, those of you who thought Obama was Great White Libertarian Hope: How's that working out for you?

[skr]

Fuck Eric Holder and the unicorn he rode in on.

[P Brooks]

"It's all about The Rule of Law. We cannot selectively enforce our laws based on whether or not we agree with them. We're not Republicans, you know."

[Paul]

his wife told a local newspaper he also was growing marijuana for several other patients,

Hoo boy, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when next he and his wife have a chance to speak. I imagine a lot of "when will you learn to shut the fuck up" will be comin' out of Mr. Carter's mouth.

But seriously, see the problem with this whole 'medical marijuana' thing? Do we actually believe that every pothead who wants it legalized has a 'debilitating medical condition'?

Just reading between the lines on this one, it sounds like Carter wasn't in compliance with state law so the justice department will be able to make the case that it didn't raid a legal dispensary.

I'm tellin' ya, the only way this medical marijuana thing will ever work is to grind it up into a pill of exacting measurements, demand a prescription for it at the Pharmacy, and have the recorded license numbers of everyone who picks up a prescription. You know, like cough medicine.

The argument will utlimately be as thus:

I'm not allowed to make Percocet in my basement and give it out to 'patients', why should you be able to grow Medical Marijuana?

[Crazycloud]

Some of the dispensaries have been caught selling to non patients. So if thats why they raided, which is what it looks like, then too bad for the lawbreakers. I don't necessarily think the dispensary should be shut down if one of the employees was caught selling. Then they should get the same treatment as an employee who sells alcohol to minors. I have never heard of a bar closed down or raided when caught selling to minors, unless they have repeat offences. There was one last year where I live.

[jasno]

STFU RCD - are you telling me that McCain wouldn't be raiding clinics? Are you caught up in the fantasy that if California pot heads would have voted for the LP that they would have won the presidency?

California law is tough to navigate - in order to qualify as a caregiver you really need to take care of the dependents total living expenses. You *can* however(at least it's generally accepted at this point) run a co-op or collective where patients join and the co-op/collective can grow on their behalf. The co-op can charge a reasonable amount to cover expenses, but it must be non-profit.

What you absolutely cannot do is grow under the pretense of being a medical marijuana collective and sell your product to a DEA agent who's not part of your collective. If the guys in question did that, then I don't fault the justice department.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hey, Brandybuck, leave the editors alone! Poor Obama is powerless to stop the Holder justice juggernaut.

Attorneys general are separate entities from their respective Administrations. Everyone knows and respects that. You remember how no one tried to tie Bush to any the doings of Ashcroft or Gonzales, right? Right?

[jasno]

Hey Paul, maybe you should read the applicable California statutes. I don't recall it saying anything about requiring a "debilitating medical condition".

I believe it says you can use MMJ if a doctor recommends it. That doctor can recommend it for whatever he thinks it's good for. That's between you and your doctor.

I understand a lot of states intend the law to only apply to cancer and AIDS patients. That's fine, but that's not California.

"the only way this medical marijuana thing will ever work"

No, it's working just fine here.

[Paul]

Hey, Brandybuck, leave the editors alone! Poor Obama is powerless to stop the Holder justice juggernaut.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and defend the Obama administration by indicting the type of government we have (which is shaped by the philosophies of the Obama administration and people like them)

The Obama administration doesn't run the country. Cabinet Czars do, and below them, career bureaucrats do. We don't live in a democracy, we live in an oligarchy of bureaucrats. Day-to-day power is being diffused not to the electorate, but an unelected group of career officials.

[J sub D]

STFU RCD - are you telling me that McCain wouldn't be raiding clinics? Are you caught up in the fantasy that if California pot heads would have voted for the LP that they would have won the presidency?

For the language impaired, RC Dean is insinuating that Obama's promises don't mean shit. He certainly wasn't intimating that the free speech hating GOP fossil wouldn't have raided MM clinics, nor that California poheads are a big enough voting block to have swung the 2008 presidential election.

As you can tell, I have a reading level above the sixth grade level.

[Results 1 - 10 of about 152,00]

If you have a wife, you can't get away with flouting the law in your own house, unless your personal power matches or exceeds the authority of whoever might ask her about you.

Even if she's your fully willing co-conspirator, or the mastermind behind it all, she'll flip and rat you out to anyone she thinks is more "alpha" than you are -- even to a reporter, if you're a real pussy.

I imagine a lot of "when will you learn to shut the fuck up" will be comin' out of Mr. Carter's mouth.

That's not happening.

[Paul]

Hey Paul, maybe you should read the applicable California statutes. I don't recall it saying anything about requiring a "debilitating medical condition".

I believe it says you can use MMJ if a doctor recommends it. That doctor can recommend it for whatever he thinks it's good for. That's between you and your doctor.

Jasno,

I understand that, but you're missing my point I was merely illustrating with the use of the word 'debilitating'. Let me be more generic: Everyone who likes to smoke dope isn't "sick". This use of the medical marijuana canard as a foot-in-the door strategy isn't working, and will probably make things worse. It needs to be legalized, period.

And if you read anything in Reason with any regularity, you'll know how much trouble doctors can get into by "recommending it for whatever he thinks it's good for."

And as for this: That's between you and your doctor.

If only, jasno, if only.

[R C Dean]

Thanks, J sub.

Geez, jasno, lighten up. Mostly, I was mocking those foolish enough to believe Obama's lies last year, as most of them will probably be foolish enough to still be believing next time he comes around.

[Robert]

are you telling me that McCain wouldn't be raiding clinics?

I wouldn't tell anyone that, but I do think his policies in that regard couldn't be much worse, and meanwhile we wouldn't be paying the "Obama tax" in so many other ways.

[Warty]

See, threads like this are why I miss joe.

[ChicagoTom]

On a more positive note, Denver is looking to reduce the fine for marijuana posession to $1 (plus 110 in surcharges and fees) down from $50 and the fees.

[Paul]

See, threads like this are why I miss joe.

He went to work for the Obama administration...

...but seriously, I'm not sure if I've ever run across another more irrationally optimistic group than dope smokers. And don't get me wrong, I love dope smokers...

[ChicagoTom]

Mostly, I was mocking those foolish enough to believe Obama's lies last year, as most of them will probably be foolish enough to still be believing next time he comes around.

Even if the raids only happen less frequently, and they stretch the facts a bit of "violating state law" he is still leaps and bounds better than anyone on the GOP ticket and most Democrats.

What's your point again? That politicians lie? And that some people believe it? I am sure that most people who considered his WoD stand at all looked at it skepitcally, but they still decided he was the best option available on that issue.

Sure most will still vote for Obama again, because compared to the insanity that is most politicians when it comes to the WoD, a deceptive Obama is still more reasonable re the WoD.

[Paul]

Chitom, I just read your linked story. Am I to understand that Marijuana posession in Denver only resulted in a $50 fine before this new law? I hate to admit it, but I'm impressed. $50 is less than a frickin' parking ticket these days.

[Paul]

As the executive director of the Center for Good Things that People Want, our proposed healthcare reform plan will be sent in an informational packet to lawmakers next month. The title of this packet will read:

Healthcare Reform: That's between you and your doctor.

It's a good thing, and people want it.

[spanky]

I'm tellin' ya, the only way this medical marijuana thing will ever work is to grind it up into a pill of exacting measurements, demand a prescription for it at the Pharmacy, and have the recorded license numbers of everyone who picks up a prescription. You know, like cough medicine.

Sativex? is GW's lead cannabinoid pharmaceutical product, administered as an oral spray which is absorbed by the patient's mouth.
The current position regarding the availability of Sativex? varies between different countries according to whether Sativex? has been approved by the medical regulatory authority in the country and also on the local regulations regarding the prescribing of controlled drugs and unlicensed medicines.

[steve]

Hope, change, and a whole big pile of lies; mostly about the hope and change stuff...

I think the line has been crossed and we can predict that Obama will abandon ALL of his campaign promises.

[FeelingQueasy]

I never trusted Obama's highly nuanced language regarding medical cannabis; there were too many loopholes.

And I could be wrong; but at this point, it seems like he could put an end to the raids, if he had the courage and a true reverence for our federal system. I'm sure it would be "politically risky" to end the raids, but it is the right thing to do.

He is definitely not getting my vote again, if this is the way he is going to be dealing with medical cannabis. And I put a LOT of time, money and effort to help him get elected.

[kwais]

It irks me so much that these busybodies are busting down doors of people that the voting public has said are not criminals.

[R C Dean]

What's your point again? That politicians lie?

Yup, not excluding Hope and Change, New Kind of Politics Obama.

And that some people believe it?

Yup.

CT, are you going on record here that Obama is no better than any other off-the-rack politico? That he really is just what a lefty-lib product of the Chicago Machine?

[Episiarch]

I don't get why the raids continue. Obama would get a lot of love from a fair amount of people if he fulfilled his campaign promise and quietly called off the raids. Most anti-drug assholes wouldn't even notice, and those of us who detest the raids would say "great!"

I guarantee this is a law enforcement problem. I have a feeling the cops in CA don't like the fact that there is medical MJ because it reduces their ability to hassle and arrest people for MJ possession, and I bet they are constantly asking the Feds to step in and legitimize raids for them (by claiming there is a violation of Federal law).

They're all one big happy family and Obama would rather piss us off than LEOs.

[BakedPenguin]

I'm sure it would be "politically risky" to end the raids, but it is the right thing to do.

That's the frustrating part: it really isn't that politically dangerous, and his administration should know that. He has been on record as supporting MM in the past; furthermore, the vast majority of people who would be turned off by his admin stopping MM raids didn't vote for him, and aren't gonig to change their minds because Justice & the DEA go all psycho on MM growers.

Consider, too, that the majority of people who use MM are cancer & AIDS patients, any idiot could put together a compelling narrative that those who oppose MM are horrible, vindictive shits who think their personal morality more important that alleviating a great deal of suffering.

In short, there's little political risk, and a lot to be gained. Maybe the DEA has pictures of Obama actually having gay, coked-out sex with that attention whore idiot who showed up on You Tube during the campaign. It's the only thing I can think of to justify the gutless position taken by the Obama administration.

[BH]

One thing that increasingly pisses me off is I pay taxes thay pay for all these cops and I wonder how much time they spend doing crap like this when they should be, you know, chasing after murderers and rapists and real criminals. I get that "head about explode" feeling when I think too much about it so I'll stop.

[alan]

Obviously the morons who vote for the LEO lovin' two party duopoly are not a part of the solution no matter if they support legalization or not. It will always be a side issue for them so long as there are welfare checks to be cashed or foreign ass to be kicked.

What is then? Errrr, Hmmm, tough one -- how 'bout nanonites giving Eric Holder a really bad case of the glaucoma. Sorry, best one I could come up with at this time.

[bigbigslacker]

Yesterdays news, but I found this post at the KFC marijuanna story at

http://blogs.laweekly.com/squidink/fast-food/kfc-marijuana-dispensary/

John Mason says:
Wow, that is way cool dude, I like it!

RT
http://www.online-privacy.es.tc

Posted On: Friday, Aug. 28 2009 @ 4:38AM

[BakedPenguin]

...how 'bout nanonites giving Eric Holder a really bad case of the glaucoma.

While you're at it, give anonymity guy a really bad case of carpal tunnel.

[skr]

Consider, too, that the majority of people who use MM are cancer & AIDS patients

I'm going to go out on a pretty safe limb and say that, in CA, cancer and AIDS patients are in the minority of MM prescriptions.

[Paul]

I'm going to go out on a pretty safe limb and say that, in CA, cancer and AIDS patients are in the minority of MM prescriptions.

Shyeah, all those dreadlocked kidz wearing the Bob Marley tee-shirts are in the thick of their chemo treatments.

[BakedPenguin]

Ok, I'm not up with what's going on in CA. If the dispensaries are just versions of Amsterdam's coffee houses, I was unaware.

However, that doesn't invalidate the dire need some people have for the drug.

[FeelingQueasy]

Baked Penguin,

Thanks for your response to my comment. I agree that ending the raids wouldn't be "politically risky," in terms of how it would affect Obama's political standing with We the People. In fact, since state and national polls have demonstrated over and over again that We the People want access to medical cannabis, I think Obama would increase his popularity and credibility if he ended the raids (and let each state decide how to deal with the issue).

So, my statement was misleading. Thanks for the help.

I do believe that the drug warriors would pitch a serious fit and throw "everything but the kitchen sink" at the Obama admin, if he followed through with his campaign promises.

But so what? We the People would love it and We the People decide whether he gets re-elected, not the ONDCP.

[SIV]

BP

He has been on record as supporting MM in the past
Got any cite outside of a campaign promise?

furthermore, the vast majority of people who would be turned off by his admin stopping MM raids didn't vote for him

I'd guess that "vast majority" at about 50% if not less and without any more supporting data than you offered I bet I'm closer to correct.

[SIV]

The only constituency with strong feelings in favor of continuing medical marijuana raids would be career civil servants in the ONDCP,NIH,FDA,DEA,Justice Department etc.

FWIW, I'd bet those people skew Dem.

[BakedPenguin]

FQ - Your point (similar to Epi's, and later, SIV's) about LEO's is on the mark.

Got any cite outside of a campaign promise?

The campaign promise was made in front of others, no? How much more "on the record" do you need to be? He stated he would end MM raids during the campaign - how could it then be a surprise to anyone? I'll admit that a politician actually following through with a campaign promise would be odd, but I don't think it would be so strange in and of itself as to alienate the public.

[Episiarch]

The only constituency with strong feelings in favor of continuing medical marijuana raids would be career civil servants in the ONDCP,NIH,FDA,DEA,Justice Department etc.

Let's not forget the CA prison guards' union. I would bet serious dough that the reason these absurd raids just won't stop, even though it seems like stopping would be a winner for Obama, is the fact that these raids are work, fun, and profit for DEA agents, CA LEOs, CA prison guards, and local and federal prosecutors. Serious dough.

[BakedPenguin]

SIV - you've stated on numerous occasions that you believe Republicans are better than Democrats on drugs issues. Other than Paul and Tancredo (and Schultz, for whatever he's worth), I don't get this. But since you want data, here's some data. It's a New Jersey poll by the Drug Policy Alliance. On page seven, they break down support for MM by party - 75% of Democrats support it, compared to 63% of Republicans. Moreover, 56% of self-described conservatives support it, compared to 84% of self-described liberals.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I agree that the groups you (& FQ & Epi) listed are really the only people with a strong incentive to fight against MM, with the possible addition of some religious groups.

As for the political makeup of those government agencies, until you want to do the digging (like I just did with overall support for MM), I'll say that they are heavily skewed by the group that hates drugs the most in the NJ poll - conservatives.

[Jeffersonian]

I feel so much safer now.

[FeelingQueasy]

A Few More Public Opinion Polls - Nationwide

I. 78% of respondents favored "making marijuana legally available for doctors to prescribe in order to reduce pain and suffering."

POLL: Gallup
DATE: October 13-16, 2005 SAMPLE SIZE: Approx. 1,000

II. 75% of respondents favored "making marijuana legally available for doctors to prescribe in order to reduce pain and suffering."

POLL: Gallup
DATE: November 2003 SAMPLE SIZE: Approx. 1,004

III. 80% of respondents supported allowing adults to "legally use marijuana for medical purposes."

POLL: Time Magazine/CNN Poll
DATE: October 2002
Sample Size: 1,007

IV. 72% of respondents agreed with the statement, "Adults should be allowed to legally use marijuana for medical purposes if a physician recommends it."

POLL: AARP
DATE: November 2004
Sample Size: 1,706

V. 85% of respondents favored "making marijuana legally available for medical uses where it has been proven effective for treating a problem."

POLL: ACLU Topline Poll
DATE: November 1995
Sample size: 1,001

As these polls illustrate, the large majority of Americans support access to medical cannabis; and it is more likely that Obama would increase his polling numbers if he ended the raids (and let each state decide how to handle the issue).

[troy]

Wow! So who in the pool bet that BO would cave in 6 months? Those of you who bet longer than a year: pfft! Dumbass.

[SIV]

SIV - you've stated on numerous occasions that you believe Republicans are better than Democrats on drugs issues.

IIRC,I think I've said they are no worse.
(The only name politicians I know of who support anything like the libertarian position on legalization are Republicans,albeit mostly of "elder statesman" status)
If it seems I am claiming the GOP is any "better" that is in my arguments with those that see the Dems as less responsible for the WoDs.

Conservative ideology is more amenable to eventually coming around to legalization based on principles of personal responsibility and property rights. Drug prohibition is rooted in progressive ideals.

[FeelingQueasy]

Obama & the Raids

I. Direct Quote from Obama:

"I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana [patients?]?it's not a good use of our resources." - In response to question from Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana Aug. 21, 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUze-oYsswI

II. From the SF Chronicle

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/12/MNKK10FD53.DTL

[Directly from SF Chron]...In response to recent questions from The Chronicle about medical marijuana, Obama's campaign - the only one of the three contenders to reply - endorsed a hands-off federal policy.

"Voters and legislators in the states - from California to Nevada to Maine - have decided to provide their residents suffering from chronic diseases and serious illnesses like AIDS and cancer with medical marijuana to relieve their pain and suffering," said campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt.

"Obama supports the rights of states and local governments to make this choice - though he believes medical marijuana should be subject to (U.S. Food and Drug Administration) regulation like other drugs," LaBolt said.

He said the FDA should consider how marijuana is regulated under federal law, while leaving states free to chart their own course.

Obama would end DEA raids

LaBolt also said Obama would end U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration raids on medical marijuana suppliers in states with their own laws.[END QUOTE FROM SF CHRON].

[hmm]

[hmm]

Oh and I can't believe people are surprised Obama went back on this.

So we are:

Still at war.
Still busting people for pot.
Still segregating people based on sexual preference for a ton of things.
Still losing jobs.
Still increasing the deficit.
Still...

Fuck me! The only difference is it's a black guy fucking me instead of an old white guy on viagra.

and I'm still not even getting a kiss

[Mr. Chartreuse]

Still at war.
Still busting people for pot.
Still segregating people based on sexual preference for a ton of things.
Still losing jobs.
Still increasing the deficit.
Still...

...wanting to take over"protect" the Internet in times of emergency

[Episiarch]

...wanting to take over"protect" the Internet in times of emergency

Presidents change, but the bullshit remains the same.

[hmm]

I wonder how long this good cop bad cop charade will go on with Holder and Obama. I also wonder where else it will come up. I can see the many czars and advisers falling on the sword for him to get things passed or to shield him from public opinion. Although I'm not sure how well this will work.

[Juanita Wayback Machine]

Juanita | March 19, 2007, 3:44pm | #

If it makes it harder for the cops to do no knock warrents then it is not good. Anything that makes it harder for the police to keep us all off drugs is inherintly a bad idea, I'm not for it.

[MNG]

"Hey all you Reason editors, those of you who thought Obama was Great White Libertarian Hope: How's that working out for you?"

IIRC it was like three out of many regular contributors that declared for him...

Obama has been terrible on his promises here. Shameful. And he deserves more hell than he will get for it.

[24AheadDotCom]

It wasn't just the contributors who were overt about supporting BHO, it was the fact that the rest either covertly supported him or were too incompetent to block BHO. Seriously: you're somewhat of a big fish (in internet terms) or at least you've got the ears of big fish, and you can't block someone like BHO? That just screams incompetence.

Reason and others (Instapundit, HotAir, "Ace", etc. etc.) continue their incomptent ways today. It's like everything they do is an attempt to get on cable TV, and everything else doesn't matter. They don't have the balls to stand up to the Beltway establishment, and even after a year's worth of testosterone shots they still wouldn't have the brainpower to do anything effective to block anything BHO wants.

For the smart and effective alternative opposition to BHO, subscribe to my feed. I don't whine, I don't put on a show, and I don't jump up and down like a clown. I just tell you how you can effectively block BHO's plans.

[hmm]

But what if I want a whiny jumpy clown?

[help420me]

And Tylenol causes liver and kidney failure. More people are killed by drunks than potheads. Alcohol kills braincells on contact and makes for great engine degreaser. But let's keep that stuff, you know, for the kids. Decriminalize. Legalize.

[NIH]

help420me ,

You've convinced me.We need to ban this alcohol too.It is worse than locoweed and the synergistic effect on a dark-skinned dope-crazed animal means some poor white woman is going to get raped.

[NIH]

Michael Skinner, a law enforcement officer with the U.S. Forest Service in Colorado, said warning signs of possible drug trafficking include "tortilla packaging, beer cans, Spam, Tuna, Tecate beer cans," and campers who play Spanish music. He said the warning includes people speaking Spanish.

Lock up the white women.

[24AheadDotCom]

For an example of the difference between what Reason does and I do, see my discussion of Glenn Beck's "Five Points". Instead of simply mocking him as Reason would do, I showed what was wrong with his points and then suggested how you can actually have an impact and oppose BHO.

I've been commenting here for several years, and I cannot recall a time when Reason actually suggested that their readers do something. I do that all the time, suggesting things that you can actually do to have an impact. If you want to have an impact, subscribe to my feed.

[SafeMedicine]

FDA-approved medications kill tens of thousands of people each year and have become a major cause of death in the U.S., according to the following shelved JAMA study (JAMA - Incidence of Adverse Drug Reactions in Hospitalized Patients - A Meta-analysis of Prospective Studies. Jason Lazarou, MSc; Bruce H. Pomeranz, MD, PhD; Paul N. Corey, PhD; JAMA.1998; 279:1200-1205.)

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/279/15/1200?ijkey=F8guE.zA8WYTs

Vioxx killed close to 30,000 people from "sudden cardiac events" in just a few years, according to the FDA.

But this study shows that a lot more people are dying from their properly prescribed and properly taken medicine than the FDA would have you believe.

Despite the incredible number of deaths from our FDA-approved medications, our government continues to block access to one of the few therapeutic substances that cannot kill from toxicity.

Pure Evil.

[Tulpa]

I don't whine, I don't put on a show, and I don't jump up and down like a clown. I just tell you how you can effectively block BHO's plans.

Thank you, Lonewacko, that just gave me the best laugh I've had in months. Please don't shut the fuck up, I need the entertainment.

[Tricky Prickears]

...Bush appointees continue to serve in the DEA and the US Attorney's Office of Northern California, which is prosecuting the case.

Change we can believe in.

[jpocali]

BHO admitted to smoking pot and snorting coke,when does he start his sentence?

[alice bowie]

Barak Obama...The First, Middle, and LAST black president of America for a very long long time.

Not only has he LOST the Libertarians, the social moderates/Fiscal Conservatives, but he's loosing the DOPPERS !!!

Bye Bye Barak

[alice bowie]

He's done NOTHING for any of the SOCIAL Causes the Libertarians have voted him in for:

- a sensible drug policy
- eliminate the discrimination against gays
- shut-up the Jesus-freak abortion activist
- move the supreme court to a more liberal lean

FUCK OBAMA

!!! KEEP DOPE ALIVE !!!

[robc]

are you telling me that McCain wouldn't be raiding clinics?

In my state, there were 6 candidates on the ballot. Not just Obama and McCain.

[robc]

compared to the insanity that is most politicians when it comes to the WoD, a deceptive Obama is still more reasonable re the WoD.

Why worry about "most" politicians. You only have to fine ONE with a reasonable position on the WoD.

[brotherben]

Alice Bowie, perhaps you agree with this Idaho republican gubernatorial candidate that joked about HuntingObama

[Federal Dog]

I don't understand why anyone would have believed that any government actors would voluntarily forego police action and seized cash and assets that assure them billions of dollars a year.

[DT]

The fact that these raids are still going on is ridiculous. Legalizing drugs is not just good policy, it's a moral imperative. The DEA agents are the real criminals, not the pot growers.
http://statelesspatriot.blogspot.com

[Graybull]

Just 'RE' legalize Cannabis. Prior to Anslinger's prohibition in 1937, Eli Lilly had over 100 patent medicines containing cannabis combinations. People we're freaked out by it like the prohibitionists are these days. Cannabis, slang Marijuana, was okay from the beginning of historic time until 1937... what a bunch of BS bunk prohibition is.

[ktc2]

The DEA, like the CIA and perhaps all of our alphabet soup of clandestine agencies, is a rogue agency. It will continue to do as it wants and the law, morality and policy be damned.

[blazin]

watch out for those "california pot-heads" like u say... unfortuneatly for u.. california potheads outnumber the populations of many of the smaller states... the numbers are growing .. and not all of them are morons ...

[Tony_42]

I'm not allowed to make Percocet in my basement and give it out to 'patients', why should you be able to grow Medical Marijuana?

-----------------------------

Cause it is available through legal drug pushers. They don't want us using our drugs they want us using theirs.

[indicamadness]

vbecause the big name pharma companies contribute a lot of money to the government and to the politicians to keep their profits up
whereas they do not tax pot grown from your spare bedroom..its all about the money..it doesnt have anythng to do with compassion or whats rightfully our right to smoke a harmless weed

[scottportraits]

Bad news, indeed. Is their a shortage of work for all these DEA and cops ?? Aren't there real criminals out there they need to be catching ?? Why insist upon hassling medical cannabis-related activities in California ??

I don't comprehend the 'reasoning' behind these arrests and police shenanigans.

[jpocali]

I'm not allowed to make Percocet in my basement and give it out to 'patients', why should you be able to grow Medical Marijuana?

Because you don't MAKE marijuana any more than you MAKE a carrot or a rose or any other plant. You MAKE Percocet, you GROW mj. There is a huge difference. Agriculture versus manufacture. I have yet to hear of anyone who MADE a carrot (or mj for that matter) wrong and killed thousands of people, how good is the FDA's record with their drugs?

[The Angry Optimist]

you grow hemlock, too, assclown.

[24AheadDotCom]

There are several videos like this one available, and I haven't watched them yet. Does anyone have a report on that from a reputable source that at least tried to ask CNN about their ApparentlyFakeFootageFromThe 1991WarInIraq?

[jpocali]

Yes, but you should be smart enough not to eat that you assclown!

[jpocali]

Oh, and show me one doctor that has prescribed that..... assclown.

[hmm]

You could argue that people do "make" marijuana through genetic engineering. The same way the size of grains were engineered or made. I guess the question is does "make" require the human doing the chemical mixing to create a reaction or does the human just have to facilitate the chemical reactions.

Either way putting people in jail for it is fucking retarded.

[cramoft]

Paul.

Your analogy:

The argument will ultimately be as thus:

I'm not allowed to make Percocet in my basement and give it out to 'patients', why should you be able to grow Medical Marijuana?

Shows your ignorance of patent law. i.e. Percocet is a patented product, thus cannot be made in your basement legally. Whether it is given away or sold, but you could make for your own use....

[Zoology Saturday]

Anglerfish employ an unusual mating method. Because individuals are presumably locally rare and encounters doubly so, finding a mate is problematic. When scientists first started capturing ceratioid anglerfish, they noticed that all of the specimens were females. These individuals were a few inches in size and almost all of them had what appeared to be parasites attached to them. It turned out that these "parasites" were the remains of male ceratioids.

At birth, male ceratioids are already equipped with extremely well developed olfactory organs that detect scents in the water. When it is mature, the male's digestive system degenerates, making him incapable of feeding independently, which necessitates his quickly finding a female anglerfish to prevent his death. The sensitive olfactory organs help the male to detect the pheromones that signal the proximity of a female anglerfish. When he finds a female, he bites into her skin, and releases an enzyme that digests the skin of his mouth and her body, fusing the pair down to the blood-vessel level. The male then atrophies into nothing more than a pair of gonads, which releases sperm in response to hormones in the female's bloodstream indicating egg release. This extreme sexual dimorphism ensures that, when the female is ready to spawn, she has a mate immediately available.[3]

The spawn of the anglerfish of the genus Lophius consists of a thin sheet of transparent gelatinous material 2 or 3 feet wide and 25 to 30 feet long. The eggs in this sheet are in a single layer, each in its own little cavity. The spawn is free in the sea. The larvae are free-swimming and have the pelvic fins elongated into filaments. Such an egg sheet is rare in fish.

[Paul]

Shows your ignorance of patent law. i.e. Percocet is a patented product, thus cannot be made in your basement legally. Whether it is given away or sold, but you could make for your own use....

*sigh*head in hands*

I understand that when they say the three most important things in real estate are location-location-location, it's really only one thing, Woody.

How's the whole medical marijuana thing going for ya?

Exactly.

[Paul]

Because you don't MAKE marijuana any more than you MAKE a carrot or a rose or any other plant. You MAKE Percocet, you GROW mj. There is a huge difference. Agriculture versus manufacture. I have yet to hear of anyone who MADE a carrot (or mj for that matter) wrong and killed thousands of people, how good is the FDA's record with their drugs?

Jesus christ, I walk away and it's like everyone's channeling dead crazy people. Tom Carter discovered real fast how legal it is to make... shit... I mean grow marijuana in his basement.

Cause it is available through legal drug pushers. They don't want us using our drugs they want us using theirs.

tony_42... you're getting close to my point. Close to it. what the hell happened here, did a bunch of JR High kids run across the thread because it had the word "marijuana" in it?

[HAWK]

The DEA is raiding operations where the sales went beyond MM patients. Obama did not promise otherwise. You want something else, well don't vote for Obama anymore.

[Sean W. Malone]

Aww man, I forgot about Zoology Saturday... I was all happy with myself for Mises publishing more stuff. Umm...

I'm too tired to come up with particularly interesting zoological facts, though I suppose I can just let everyone know that rabbits - while sometimes thought to belong to the rodent family, are in fact lagomorphs.

A zoologically related question that I was pondering the other day as well: How big an effect do you (anyone) think that the animals you grow up around have on your personality?

For example - If you grow up only around mostly non-threatening creatures like dogs, deer, birds, etc., would you have been a substantially different person had you say, grown up in the Everglades with Aligators & poisonous water snakes?

[Art-P.O.G.]

would you have been a substantially different person had you say, grown up in the Everglades with Aligators & poisonous water snakes?

I'm thinking I'd be all crusty and weird, like Chris Cooper's character in Adaptation. Well, I'm all crusty and weird anyway, but not in the good, rugged way.

BTW, nice fun fact about rabbits.

[BakedPenguin]

cramoft - Percocet is long out of patent. If you try to make it in your basement however, you can be arrested, since its main ingredient is Oxycodone.

[John teebone]

Sounds to me like the DA has WAY too much time on their hands! No real crime to deal with I guess!

Russ
http://www.online-privacy.es.tc

[Tulpa]

DEA, not DA, Mr. Bot. I would have thought the one thing a computer would have no trouble with would be copying a word correctly.

[Sean W. Malone]

"I'm thinking I'd be all crusty and weird, like Chris Cooper's character in Adaptation."

See, I think that would be way cooler. Especially if accompanied by a thick Cajun accent. I'm sure you'd take a hit in people taking you seriously intellectually - but the increase in cool factor + attractiveness to hot chicks would probably more than compensate.

[BakedPenguin]

Conservative ideology is more amenable to eventually coming around to legalization based on principles of personal responsibility and property rights.

SIV, it's not 1964 anymore. IIRC, Nixon was the first to use the phrase "War on Drugs". The Reagan administration ramped it up to what it is today. Conservatives, as they define themselves today, no longer believe in personal responsibility or property rights.

Drug prohibition is rooted in progressive ideals.

And racism, as well as distorted religious beliefs.

[Art teebone]

cramoft - Percocet is long out of patent. If you try to make it in your basement however, you can be arrested, since its main ingredient is Oxycodone.

I tried to make Percocet in my basement and accidentally made crystal meth! lol!

Art
http://www.online-stealthecy.es.tc

[Art-P.O.G.]

but the increase in cool factor + attractiveness to hot chicks would probably more than compensate.

Word. It would be like being the anti-metrosexual.

BakedPenguin,

+1 on your last post.

[Wellescent Rheumatoid Arthriti]

There is some significant "holier than thou" attitude contained in so many of these comments in which people assume that everyone who grows marijuana is a pothead. For people with fibromyalgia, some advanced forms of rheumatoid arthritis and trigeminal neuralgia, the available pain killers just do not offer relief.

However marijuana does provide relief and has been tested scientifically in jurisdictions where the laws are more aligned with serving the population. While research is under way to extract the effective pain killers from the plant and to make legal drugs from them, science is not yet there so judging people without sufficient facts is petty and arrogant.

It is unfortunate that laws take so long to change in order to truly serve justice, but one must remember that just because something is dictated by law, does not mean it is just.

[SIV]

Prior to Anslinger's prohibition in 1937

That would be President Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the progressive Democrat New Deal Congress who signed and passed marijuana prohibition, Anslinger was just the bureaucrat in charge of enforcing it.

[SIV]

IIRC, Nixon was the first to use the phrase "War on Drugs".

Your point being? Nixon and "conservative" don't have much of anything in common.

The Reagan administration ramped it up to what it is today.

You FAIL at civics BP, and history. The draconian anti-drug legislation of the 1980s was driven by Tip O'Neil and an overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled Congress after the death of future Boston Celtic Len Bias.(ditto the Dems responsibility for "Nixon's" WoDs and the creation of the DEA)

Conservatives, as they define themselves today, no longer believe in personal responsibility or property rights.
That would be news to Conservatives.Or are you using "conservative" to mean "moderate center-right centrists" like GW Bush?

Elected Republicans collectively bear about equal responsibility for continuing drug prohibition.Historically and currently the Dems own it.

You FAIL at civics BP, and history. The draconian anti-drug legislation of the 1980s was driven by Tip O'Neil and an overwhelmingly Democrat-controlled Congress after the death of future Boston Celtic Len Bias.

[BakedPenguin]

Who made "Just Say No" famous, SIV? It wasn't fucking Tip O'Neill. Ronald Reagan, who is not just generally considered a conservative - he's often considered the model of modern conservatism, was more than happy to sign whatever WoD bills O'Neill sent his fucking way. The Reagan administration was stridently anti-drug, and I still say they led the charge.

Nixon was the "law and order" candidate, and that meant beating hippies over the head, and throwing them in prison. If you think he needed any prodding to fight "public enemy number one", or to create the DEA, read some transcripts of the tapes, civics boy.

Oh, and here's some info for you - the Volstead Act was passed over the veto of Wilson - probably the only decent thing he did in office. Here's some more FAIL, civics boy. The 1924 Heroin Act, which made Heroin illegal, even with a doctor's prescription, was ratified under Republican Coolidge.

Talking about what's going on today, if you're saying it took / takes bipartisanshit to make it happen, I won't disagree. But if you're saying that they were led by the nose, I'm calling BS.

Only 56% of self-identified Conservatives thought people with deadly diseases should be able to get a doctor's prescription for MM, compared with 84% of self-identified liberals. If "conservatives" believe in the individual as self-owner, they sure aren't showing it.

Does Obama suck? Yes, as I've pointed out several times while quoting his wretched Berlin speech where he compared people who (potentially) traded freely with terrorists, since they were trading drugs. And if I ever got a Lonewacko moment, I'd love to ask him how long he deserved to be in prison for the drug "crimes" he committed, then upload his response to Youtube.

Here's the main difference as I see it: there were a lot of Obama (and Clinton, going back a ways) voters who were disappointed by the gutless wonder act in continuing to fight the WoD. I think there were very few Bush voters who were disappointed that he was a full-bore Wod warrior. And whether you like it or not, people who call themselves conservatives were a lot more likely to vote for Bush than anyone else.

[SIV]

Who made "Just Say No" famous, SIV?

That is actually sound advice for many people and many drugs.If only our political class confined themselves to preaching abstinence and moderation in regard to drugs.

Like I said,I'm not arguing the GOP is "better" on drugs,they just aren't any worse.Contrary to popular opinion.

Prohibition is strictly a "progressive" cause regardless of who is advocating it.

National Review and the Heritage foundation either advocate legalization or freely give space to that opinion.I am aware of NO left/progressive think tanks/publications that do. "Harm reduction" and "emphasis on treatment" don't count.Those people still want to tell you what you can put in your body and punish you for straying from the "scientific opinion" or whatever they call their rationalization of coerced morality this week.

[Art-P.O.G.]

+1 again to the preheated Sphenisciform.

[Art-P.O.G.]

SIV,

There might be some slight difference between conservative and liberal views on drugs, but it doesn't change the fact that the mainstream of Teamrs Red & Blue just loooove prohibition. I don't see how this is an unfair knock on Team Red at all, in fact the thrust of the thread is taking Team Blue to task.

[user]

i am not voting for obama again.
only reason i voting for him is cause he said he was going to respect state law. screw that fool.

[Michelle]

I have been on opium (hydrocadone) since 2004 my only choice for pain relief is electrodes attached to my spine or morphine patches. I don't want to die from an accidental overdose like my brother did. He had the same medications I take. I have never smoked pot but my medications are not working any more. Medical marijuana yes I am ready to try it anything just stop the pain. I can see now why so many in pain management give up and take their own life. you cant live like this every day. I want the choice its only the right thing to do.

[crazycloud]

I wouldn't mind at all if I didn't have to smoke my meds. I would love if they could put in a standardized capsule like they do herbs or a spray would be great. On one hand I need the pot for my pain but then I end up coughing, and having to put smoke in my lungs.