Drug Policy

Another Isolated Incident

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Last Thursday, narcotics cops in Troy, New York shot the locks off a door, tossed a flash grenade through a window, and stormed a house as part of an early-morning drug raid.  They found only a single mother inside, not the drugs or weapons described in the warrant.  The raid seems to have stemmed from a bad tip from a confidential informant.  But Troy authorities don't seem particularly repentant.  Here's District Attorney Richard McNally:

"The checks and balances were in place. We checked and double-checked the information in this case. All the checks and double-checks were done. Unfortunately, it didn't work as planned."

Obviously the checks and balances weren't in place, or the police wouldn't have terrorized an innocent woman (fortunately, her five-year-old daughter wasn't home at the time).

One local TV reporter spoke with a police sergeant related to the case, who said the police have no intention of repairing the damage they did to the woman's home.

Sgt. Dean: "We did not hit the wrong house, we hit the house that the search warrant directed us to hit."

Anya: "But was that information that led up to that right?"

Sgt. Dean: "My bosses are going through this whole investigative process to make sure that we were as thorough as possible."

Anya: "What was the level of threat that you assessed prior to coming into the home?"

Sgt. Dean: "That there were weapons in the house, or that the drugs were stored in that manor."

Anya: "In this house, you found no drugs?" Sgt. Dean: "We are not publicly speaking on that issue at this point."

Anya: "Do you think this will hurt your credibility?"

Sgt. Dean: "The last thing we want to do is enter an innocent person's home—it doesn't get us anywhere, and it doesn't hamper the drug trade."

Anya: "Will you be going back to clean-up the damage to the house?"

Sgt. Dean: "We just have to enter lawfully with our search warrant, that is our only obligation."

Anya: "And you can leave it in any state that you left it?"

Sgt. Dean: "Yes. We had probable cause that led us to believe there was drug activity."

Which apparently means they feel no obligation to clean up the mess they made.

NEXT: Seemed a Good Idea to Drop a Bomb on the Wasteland

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  1. Drugwar worshippers WILL find an excuse, just wait…
    JMR

  2. or the police wouldn’t have terrorized an innocent woman

    Radley, you know better than this. There are no innocents in the Drug War, just people they haven’t been able to catch doing anything yet.

  3. Anya: “Will you be going back to clean-up the damage to the house?”

    Sgt. Dean: “We just have to enter lawfully with our search warrant, that is our only obligation.”

    Anya: “And you can leave it in any state that you left it?”

    Sgt. Dean: “Yes. We had probable cause that led us to believe there was drug activity.”

    This continues to blow my mind. There *must* be some actionable cause here; isn’t the police under strict liability because the activity they are undertaking is so inherently dangerous to others? Usually when the activity you undertake has a reasonable chance of ending up killing someone, good faith is not a defense.

  4. Have any of you ever wondered why we have something called punitive damages here in the USA?

    Ask Jak “The Snake” Sullum (aka “Sully”). He’ll tell you as soon as he is done singing the praises of Justice Antonin Scalia.

  5. Seems that it would be a good launchpad to pass some kind of local law that if they damage a house entering with a warrant, they fix it. They can sue for recovery if the person is guilty.

  6. I’m glad I got out of Troy when I did (not that there was much chance of me staying there). Going to college in Troy was fine. From everything I could see though, living there (and many of the surrounding towns) seemed pure hell.

  7. I wonder…
    If the police are not responsible for the damage to this woman’s house, who is? Although, I do believe that if it’s in the part of Troy where you would get away with doing such a thing, you might not be able to tell much difference between what the house looked like before and after the raid *rolls eyes*

  8. New York state has so many police it’s mind-boggling. I lived in Orange County for a while. We had village police (for like a total of 2 square miles!), town police, county police, and state police. They are everywhere. I once made a 7-minute trip to the grocery store and passed 6 police, approximately 1 per minute.

    They have nothing to do but give speeding tickets and organize drug raids for excitement.

  9. RM @ 8:59

    Tru dat. So much for “beautification” efforts.

  10. Time to start a nation wide campaign to make anonymous “drug dealing at such and such address” tips that just happen to be the address of some local government employees’ relatives? If enough sons of the local magistrate and uncles of police corporals and daughters of committeemen get unfairly raided, maybe this b.s. will stop.

  11. creech –
    It has been my experience that you are probably more likely to find drugs at the residences of relatives of local political appointees and elected officials than you are in the general population.
    Then you’ll have to watch the struggle to justify why it’s ok for these people to have drugs but not others.

  12. creech —

    The only problem with that is that I do not wish to be complicit in the violation and/or murder of people, even if they happen to be related to some gub’mint sonofabitch. If enough of these were staged, the probability of one of those raids going badly approaches unity, asymptotically.

  13. Assholes.

    What really pisses me off is that if this happened in China or Iran, we’d be hearing about how terrible these totalitarian places are, and how lucky we are to live in the USA with all of our Constitutional rights and protections.

    But when it happens here, it just comes down to “Just doing our jobs keeping your (and YOUR CHILDREN) safe from bad people.”

    Assholes.

  14. I honestly don’t think most police departments are organized enough to cross check officer addresses against informant tips. Call the cops and tell them other cops are dealing. Watch the comedy ensue.

  15. If enough of these were staged, the probability of one of those raids going badly approaches unity, asymptotically.

    Which is the problem with these raids; they don’t happen in slow-motion like the movies. The person getting raided is like “WTF?”, which is probably alright if they’re the quarry, but likely very, very bad if not.

  16. Apparently the woman’s house was collateral damage. Sad.

  17. “isn’t the police under strict liability because the activity they are undertaking is so inherently dangerous to others?”

    I think the doctrine of sovereign immunity would mean that, assuming the search warrant was valid, they don’t have to do anything except eat their donuts and laugh about “the look on her face.”

  18. Call the cops and tell them other cops are dealing. Watch the comedy ensue.

    I think that happened in Street Kings. FWIW, everyone died but Keanu.

  19. I think that happened in Street Kings. FWIW, everyone died but Keanu.

    Still have to see that one. Directed by the same guy who wrote Training Day, IIRC. Training Day was fucking excellent.

  20. Typically, I am not one to promote litigation but this woman would need some other recourse to repair her home if they won’t volunteer.

    That, and I am beginning to think that these kinds of raids will continue until the agencies are paying out more in settlements than received from federal funding to fight this BS drug ‘war’.

  21. It blows my mind that they do not have to pay for this. Blows my mind. Who is supposed to pay for this, the innocent woman? WTF?

  22. This just goes on and on. The attitude of that “Sgt. Dean” character seems completely typical. And yet the only people who get outraged are the direct victims and the folks already in the choir loft.

    Radley, you follow this. Do you ever get the sense that anybody else out there ever notices…or noticing, cares?

  23. Keep Dope Alive !!!

  24. Stupid cops. I am only saddened the ladies front door was not booby trapped with a claymore mine! Sick of these stupid overzealous lowlife cops. And they wonder why people celebrate each time one gets clipped in the line of duty!
    http://www.FireMe.To/udi

  25. Still have to see that one. Directed by the same guy who wrote Training Day, IIRC. Training Day was fucking excellent.

    Agreed. Hope I didn’t ruin anything for you, but the plot to that movie’s pretty tricky anyway. James Ellmore wrote it, IIRC.

  26. Troy and Chesapeake and other such places need the local Campaign for Liberty chapters, LP clubs, whatever, to get out in front of the courthouse and police station and make some noise. (And not worry so much about the CFR and NAFTA superhighway and other junk that diverts attention from the actual loss of one’s individual liberties.) Start demanding a change in police tactics (like waiting to apprehend the alleged perp when they go to the grocery store) and laws to compensate the innocent victims of raids gone bad.

  27. A collaboration between Ayer and Ellmore is pretty much a dream come true for LA dirty cop* movie fans.

    *C’mon Mark Fuhrman didn’t help.

  28. Troy PD had to pull a police report out of a GARBAGE CAN when we went to pick it up on the day they said it would be available.

    My faith in them is… not so much.

  29. Multi-jurisdictional drug task forces are unconstitutional. Which elected official is responsible for answering for these people?

  30. “We just have to enter lawfully with our search warrant, that is our only obligation.”

    It is only proper that human beings help repair, restore or replace the things they break.

    Cops do not feel such sentiments.

    Ergo, cops are not human beings.

  31. Lamar said:

    I think the doctrine of sovereign immunity would mean that, assuming the search warrant was valid, they don’t have to do anything except eat their donuts and laugh about “the look on her face.”

    Sovereign immunity is only supposed to protect actors of the state from being criminally prosecuted for conducting activity on behalf of the state. It does not protect the state from being culpable for its cock-ups.

  32. I hate to sound like Murderin’ Tom from FTL, but is it going to take more cops getting shot as intruders for people to realize this is a poor idea?

  33. At least they admitted that this was a no-knock raid, and they got the “right” house, and they didn’t shoot her or the dog…

    Wow, it’s sad when these things are considered unusual bonuses

  34. “My bosses are going through this whole investigative process to make sure that we were as thorough as possible.”

    Which should take about a nano-second:

    “You engaged an armed assault on a house, and a woman, who had no weapons and no drugs (assuming a 5 year old daughter is neither)? Then you weren’t ‘as thorough as possible’.”

    Which shouldn’t take this flaming tool’s bosses to figure out, either.

  35. New York state has so many police it’s mind-boggling. I lived in Orange County for a while. We had village police (for like a total of 2 square miles!), town police, county police, and state police. They are everywhere. I once made a 7-minute trip to the grocery store and passed 6 police, approximately 1 per minute.

    They have nothing to do but give speeding tickets and organize drug raids for excitement.

    Epi, you just don’t understand how much manpower it takes to keep the state’s boot on the neck of the citizenry.
    For an example we go to Flint, Michigan. The local costabulary is busily engaged in combatting the frightening menace of sagging trousers. When I read about this I thought to myself

    “Self, it is certainly good news that the local cops have eradicated all of the violent and property crimes in the city so they now have the resources freed up to enforce the city dress code”.

    Oh, wait …

  36. “The last thing we want to do is enter an innocent person’s home – it doesn’t get us anywhere, and it doesn’t hamper the drug trade.”

    Yeah, poor you.

    It doesn’t help you or further your goals.

    So fuck that “innocent person” who was just terrorized and had their property damaged and destroyed by a bunch of thugs.

    My heart bleeds for the Troy Police Department, wasting their time and resources.

  37. From the video of the first link, it appears the police have fixed her door, thats one step in a good direction.

    The poor steps are throughout the interview though.

    Lots of paraphrasing follows:

    When asked since the lady was released after the raid, and that nothing was found it would appear that she was innocent. The reporter asked Sgt. Dean if you could assume she was not a drug dealer.

    Sgt. Dean replies that you can’t assume that, because they detained, and interviewed her.

    What the hell does that mean? Other then I’ll answer in such a cryptic way as to daze, and confuse any saps that are watching this report right now.

  38. Are these victims of overzealous oinker home invasions able to sue the city for damages? And where is the national exposure?? We can go 24/7 on a news cycle consisting of amber-alerts, Britney Spears and the minutiae of Obama’s daily itinerary – but an innocent American citizen is terrorized in their home and the PD won’t pay damages or clean up? For shame . . . let’s collectively petition CNN to cover this story. Let’s try to expose the madness!!!

  39. I can’t believe no one has said the obvious: that having the police as part of the same monopoly that provides “justice” makes this kind of abuse inevitable.

    Justice requires that arbitration be performed by a truly disinterested third-party: this is impossible when the final arbiter is part of the same corrupt gang as the thugs doing the damage.

    This abuse will stop only when competing providers of justice appear and the government is treated by those providers as nothing but the criminal gang it is. Anything short of actual competition in this market is putting unwarranted faith in self-restraint on the part of government agents, or in maintaining a tenuous balance in which some parts of the government hate other parts. Good luck with either.

  40. Over and over again we here about these “confidential informants”.

    They have been responsible for the deaths of innocents citizens as well a police officers.

    Has anyone ever tried to call one of them to account for it. How about some kind of negligent homicide or manslaughter charge for one?

    I suppose that the police will reply that they don’t want to risk losing this “valuable” source of “information.”

  41. squarooticus —

    Yeah. Obviously, the solution is privatization and competition. For everything. Don’t like your parents? Bid on new ones. Want to upgrade your liver? Here’s a teetotaler who wants a quick buck. Good genes, that one!

  42. I might add that over and over again these these “confidential informants” have been motivated by the basest motives.

    It’s one thing for some cheezy punk to give the cops something because they’re hounding him. But some of this cases have come about because some disgruntled neighbor out of pure malice.

  43. What should happen is that “confidential informants” should be liable for damage caused from bad tips. You can even sue them as John Does; mechanisms exist for that. Include the Police Department as an unindicted co-conspirator to deprive civil rights.

    That would get around all the stupid ‘sovereign immunity’ bullshit. Since police depts. generally have a fund they use to maintain their informants with cash infusions, this would cause them to either dump the unreliable informant or foot the bill. Either way, they take it in the teeth.

  44. More seriously, squarooticus, you don’t need anything so naive as faith in your government or as esoteric as competition in the justice system. You just need to nerf the doctrine of sovereign immunity; if the state became liable for even the most egregious of the state’s fuck-ups, behaviors would change posthaste.

  45. I like the idea about holding ‘confidential informants’ accountable. I understand that concern over reprisals is the reason for the system, but every story I read about this sort of thing leads me to believe the system is broken.

    Standard War on Drugs sucks disclaimer.

  46. Elemenope-

    What Squarooticus said in his 10:08 post is what I have said concenring the monopolization of the administration of justice-it inevitably leads to mayhem, terror and CHAOS. I might add that our position is consistent with Monsiuer Rothbard.

  47. Yeah-let’s make the confidential informant liable, but let us not forget that as slimy as they are, they are morally light years ahead of the police departments who use them.

  48. Isaac —
    fantastic point . . . there is very little practical difference between the Stalinist society of informants in the USSR and the police-supported narcs of modern America.

    Each were (are) encouraged to sell out their neighbors. Each were (are) promised protection and immunity from the harshest prosecution for their cooperation with authority. Each use(d) the informant program as an opportunity to punish people that they held grudges against.

    And in both cases, police thugs injured, maimed, terrorized and sometimes killed totally innocent people, all the while smashing, confiscating and otherwise destroying the property and effects of the victims. The final insult is the refusal to take ownership of mistakes made – the victim is left to pick up the pieces, to pay for damges, to restore the property to a decent condition, to do whatever it takes to patch up what is left in the wake of the State steamroller.

    There should be no illusions here – this is no longer a free country. It is closer to the USSR circa 1945 than it is to America at the founding.

  49. This woman should sue the police department. There’s no way she doesn’t have a case.

    You think these “confidential informants” have any assets?

    The last comments here were dead on — everyone so concerned about the loss of civil liberties in modern Russia they don’t see what’s happening right in front of them.

  50. The New Revolution-

    Careful, your post could be construed as hate speech and you could be branded as an extremist liable to committ acts of terrorism or worse, others on this blog may tarr and feather you as too over the top or cartoonish or taking freedom to absurd ends.

  51. liberty mike

    I am more sympathetic to the punk caught up in the system (usually for possession – see also the girl in Tallahassee, FL a few weeks ago) than the neighbor who out of pure malice starts circulating rumors about someone he’s disgruntled with and then out of pure malice places an anonymous tip.

    And I’m finding the ‘throw up the hands and say “oh well, shit happens”‘ attitude of the cops sickening.

    But I guess I’m not alone, am I?

  52. I might add that our position is consistent with Monsiuer Rothbard.

    Which places it squarely outside the realm of common fucking sense.

    No offense, but an anarcho-capitalist regime would be hell on Earth.

    You think these “confidential informants” have any assets?

    No, but police depts. do, and to maintain their assets they must keep them alive and happy. Happy generally includes regular payoffs and bribes infusions of cash for expenses and risk.

  53. Sgt. Dean: “We did not hit the wrong house, we hit the house that the search warrant directed us to hit.”

    It’s like he’s taunting us, knowing that we are constrained by Godwin’s Law.

  54. Wait a second . . . is Sgt. Dean actually blaming the judge/court that issued the warrant instead of the police, i.e. himself, that asked for it? Am I missing something here? Could it be that he is transferring blame to the actual paper document, thus making an inanimate object the malefactor in this case? Or, is he just an imbecile that is incapable of admitting fault of any kind. It certainly seems as if a new oath has been strictly adhered to by the Oinkers – never ever ever admit fault, even when you shoot puppies, grandmas and toddlers.

  55. Sgt. Dean: “We did not hit the wrong house, we hit the house that the search warrant directed us to hit.”

    And the USS Vincennes did not shoot down the wrong plane. It was the one they were aiming at.

  56. In light of this…

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right… to be confronted with the witnesses against him… – U.S. Constitution, Amendment VI

    …I’m tempted to ask, where does the PD get off keeping informants confidential? OK, if they don’t bust your door down and drop the investigation or never file any charges, that would be one thing, but once the state commits what would at the minimum be a tort against you, if the result of private action, the victim should have some legal recourse.

    Kevin

  57. It certainly seems as if a new oath has been strictly adhered to by the Oinkers – never ever ever admit fault, even when you shoot puppies, grandmas and toddlers.

    I doesn’t seem to be the case. It’s clearly been policy #1 for a long time.

  58. If you’re not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about should run for your lives!

  59. LMNOP:

    More seriously, squarooticus, you don’t need anything so naive as faith in your government or as esoteric as competition in the justice system. You just need to nerf the doctrine of sovereign immunity

    Fabulous. Propose a way to accomplish this.

    The whole problem is that the people abusing the rules are the same people making them and enforcing them.

    I fail to see how you’re ever going to achieve a stable state of justice with enforceable liability for state actors when this is true.

    Kyle

  60. Wait a second . . . is Sgt. Dean actually blaming the judge/court that issued the warrant instead of the police, i.e. himself, that asked for it?

    From what I have seen at cop boards, they convince themselves that there were drugs in the house and that the suspects somehow got tipped off. This does happen sometimes, I think, but I think they should not use this as a glib default assumption for justifying a fruitless SWAT raid like they do.

    When there is reason to believe that drugs were never in the house, they blame the informant.

  61. No offense, but an anarcho-capitalist regime would be hell on Earth.

    Thank you for that insightful analysis. I hereby renounce my philosophy and will now limit my advocacy to that of restraint in a government that has a monopoly on force and justice. Because clearly the people supporting that movement have been so successful in reversing the rising tide of government over the past 40 years. [/sarcasm]

  62. kevrob | July 9, 2008, 11:15am

    Good luck with getting Officer Fluffy of the K-9 Division to testify at your trial too.

    Hey, I remember a case a few years ago where an Orlando cop was allowed to testfy with his face covered.

    I believe that case involved the shootong of an innocent “civilian” too.

    Fuck this shit. I have no idea what to do about it, but fuck it.

    I’m glad Radley has the guts and gumption to do what he does. I’d’ve thrown up my hands and said fuck it long ago.

  63. It is true nothing will change until polticians, judges and others that can make the changes are directly affected. I personally have no problems with the cops doing this very thing to as many of them as it takes till they do something about THEIR laws.

    After all I am a “confidential informant,” shhhhhhhhhh, you didn’t hear it from me.

  64. You can’t seriously expect that every single raid will be “correct.”

    I *would* expect them to repair the damage and issue an apology.

    We should be able to debate and determine an acceptable false positive threshold, and then compare this to actual events. But we’re not going to have that discussion if one side insists on zero errors.

  65. bubba –
    maybe you don’t realize it, but the underlying reason why we think the error rate for no-knock drug raids should be zero is because we don’t think that drugs should be illegal, and therefore don’t warrant drug raids.

  66. Reinmoose & bubba,

    Also, we dont think there is a need for no-knock raids except in extreme cases, like hostages being held. Even if drug laws are going to exist, just arrest him (and David Koresh) when they go out dancing.

    bubba, as far as your original comment, if the police and knocked and waited to serve the warrent, there would be no damage from making the occassional mistake. And Officer Shivers would still be alive.

  67. the underlying reason why we think the error rate for no-knock drug raids should be zero is because we don’t think that drugs should be illegal

    I actually strongly disagree with this.

    No, drugs should not be illegal; but no-knock raids like this are wrong, unnecessary, and abusive (shall I Godwin myself by saying “fascist”?) no matter what the crime or non-crime in question is. Police should never employ this tactic, ever, for any reason.

    If someone has committed a violent crime and is holed up in an apartment, armed to the teeth, waiting for the pigs to show up, then there’s no need for a confidential informant, a secret court, or a battering ram: either send in the tear gas or just wait him out, and when he falls asleep or comes out starving, take him into custody. I fail to see why no-knock raids are ever needed. Period. It seems the only possible justifications are (a) to serve as a warning to the rest of us not to do anything our betters don’t like and (b) to let some oversexed and underlaid pigs flex their muscles in some perverse attempt to live out a Rambo fantasy.

    The illegality (in the classic sense of natural law) of no-knock raids should be self-evident from the wording of the fourth amendment, but alas, we live in the United States of American Idol, where no one cares about such things anymore.

  68. Thank you for that insightful analysis. I hereby renounce my philosophy and will now limit my advocacy to that of restraint in a government that has a monopoly on force and justice. Because clearly the people supporting that movement have been so successful in reversing the rising tide of government over the past 40 years.

    I don’t expect you to agree. An actual discussion of the finer points of anarcho-capitalism would take several hours and several posts, and this forum is not exactly the most conducive format for such a discussion.

    I just wanted to let you know that simply saying “hail Rothbard” is not going to give your ideas a free pass.

    That aside, American history is just as replete with occasions where the *people* took control back from the government as there is the other way around. Reform *does* happen, and while corruption is common, the voter’s distaste for such has not observably decreased. The way you’re arguing, things like the 13th Amendment and civil service reform shouldn’t even be possible…and yet they happened. People do occasionally rise up and slap their leaders around. We’re just currently at or near the nadir of a down-swing in direct participation.

    Such has happened before, and will happen again.

  69. Radly, you should start numbering these isolated incidents rather than just saying “another”. You’ve got to be up to 600 by now.

  70. Former employee of the month inanimate carbon rod is to blame. It’s always that bastard’s fault.

  71. Bet her insurance company won’t cover the damages either. They’ll call it an act of god.

  72. Crazy idea here, but maybe the police should only use paramilitary-style raids when someone’s life is in immediate jeopardy instead of using them to try to catch hippie Joe before he can flush his stash down the can.

    Or the police just enjoy using stormtrooper tactics against citizens. Because it’s probably a lot of fun to kick someone’s door in, point a gun in their face, ransack their home, discharge a few rounds, and get away with it.

  73. That the police shot the locks off is almost laughable. How many shots did that take? And people worry that concealed carry by ordinary citizens will result in the “wild west” shootouts that will put us all at risk.

  74. And come November, the same politicians (or others just like them) who support the drug war and make this sort of thing possible will be re-elected and not a damn thing will change, because the bulk of the American people apparently want it this way.

  75. I saw the Dead Boys in a bar in Troy. The bar had an actual tiger chained up in the back yard. And yes, Stiv Bators hanged himself with his mic cord. There were no cops present. The end.

  76. Elemenope-

    The overwhelming empirical evidence that we do have is that the monopolization of the administration of justice IS ONE F…..ING HELL ON EARTH.

    Common sense dictates that it is absurd to continue to think that if we just keep trying to give “democrcy” a chance things will change. It is even more absurd to submit that life on earth would be a f..ing living hell if we had an anarcho-capitalist regime where no drug laws would exist and where there would be no monopolization of the administration of justice resulting in the present day CHAOS and MSAYHEM as evidenced by today’s story.

    Bottom line: what we have now is a living hell and CHAOS and MAYHEM.

  77. Bottom line: what we have now is a living hell and CHAOS and MAYHEM.

    Aside from the hysteria, where the hell do you live, anyway? I’ve lived a few places, including so-called “bad neighborhoods”, and while I have no love for either the gangs or the cops, it was nothing even close to approaching “CHAOS” or “MAYHEM”.

    And I think Hobbes put this nonsense to bed a while ago by noticing that without the necessary evil of government life is invariably nasty, brutish, and short.

  78. Hobbes put this nonsense to bed a while ago

    Appeal to authority? (And that’s being charitable: I don’t know that I’d describe Hobbes’ rantings as “authoritative” in any sense.)

  79. Hysteria?

    What about “the neceassary evil of government life is invariably nasty, brutish and short?”

    Or, “an anarcho-capitalist regime would be hell on earth?”

    I live in Massachusetts. I grew up in Rhode Island. You may recall some weeks back that you actually liked a post I made concerning some little rhody history.

  80. Elemenope

    How would you describe the current state of affairs? What the cops did in this situation is, let’s face it, an every day event. Some where in this country, today, the same thing is happening-a raid on the wrong house.

    Further, in every state in this country, today, there will be or there has already been, an incident of police brutality-if not multiple incidents. What’s more, in every single police department, today, ther will be or there already has been, an incident where a cop has broken the law.

    IMO, this state of affairs is chaos. Do you call it order?

  81. liberty mike —

    That is, on balance, fairly low-grade OPPRESSION. Which, while a fairly unvarnished *bad thing*, has very little in relation to either CHAOS or MAYHEM, both well-defined words that imply in many ways the exact opposite of a well-ordered oppressive regime.

  82. Sgt. Dean: “We did not hit the wrong house, we hit the house that the search warrant directed us to hit.”

    I love this. I may have shot an innocent man, but it’s OK, because he was the one I was aiming at.

  83. Elemenope-

    How about Mugabe land? Chaos or just a little bit more than low grade OPRESSION?

  84. Fine let go to these cops home fuck up the dorr and messe-up every thing!

    Fair enough! Right?

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