Corruption

City of Bruised Shoulders

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So remember the video of the off-duty Chicago SWAT officer beating the mother-grabbin' vocabulary out of a female bartender a third his size?

A second video surfaced last week, this time involving six other off-duty Chicago cops slamming some heads in a bar brawl.

One alleged victim of the Jefferson Tap beating required reconstructive surgery on his face and another suffered four broken ribs, a lawyer for the men has said. During the incident, patrons at the downtown bar called 911. When patrol officers responded, the off-duty officers involved allegedly spoke to them and the patrol officers left without intervening, sources have said.

That was in December. Police officials saw the video of the fight five days after it happened. Yet the brawling cops kept their jobs, positions, and patrols until late last week, when the bartender beatdown video got the media sniffing, leading to the discovery of the video of the December brawl. Four months later, only after another one of his men was caught on tape beating a civilian, Chicago Police Superintendent Philip Cline decided to suspend the six officers involved in the December brawl, noting that he probably "mishandled" their discipline.

"Mishandled" is one way of putting it. "Covered up" is probably more accurate.

This week was also the hearing for Officer Anthony Abbate, the aforementioned officer who beat down the bartender. As if the department hadn't shamed itself enough already…

The hearing was held at a branch courtroom at the Grand Central Area police headquarters, and several on-duty officers used their squad cars to block media access to the facility, Cline said. Officers also issued parking tickets to media vehicles parked in the headquarters lot.

Cline said he had already decided to demote the watch commander—a captain—who he said told the officers to harass reporters and camera crews covering the Abbate hearing.

Demoted? Shouldn't the watch commander be fired? Come to think of it, it's probably time for Sup. Cline to look for other work, too. New evidence also emerged this week in yet another case, this time casting doubt on police accounts of a 2005 fatal police shooting of an unarmed immigrant in the city. Incredibly, Sup. Cline was at the scene of that shooting. A forensics expert is now alleging a police cover-up there, too.

I'll include the obligatory "only a small percentage of cops are bad" disclaimer here. But when the entire department—right up to the chief of police—continues to cover up for the bad seeds, you really can't blame the public for starting to believe that they're all crooked.

NEXT: Speaking of Book Covers...

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  1. Some of the newscasters that showed that video were amazed that the onlookers were doing nothing to help her. Even though that guy looked like a solid 350, you’d think someone would have given him the business end of a pool cue. C’mon, there are weapons abound in a bar!

  2. I’ll include the obligatory “only a small percentage of cops are bad” disclaimer here. But when the entire department-right up to the chief of police-continues to cover up for the bad seeds, you really can’t blame the public for starting to believe that they’re all crooked.

    That’s the Chicago way…

    sage – only in the movies. only in the movies.

    or a karate guy can come in with his Tekki Shodan kata and get all down-blocky on his ass!

    🙂

  3. A few weeks ago, I purchased the box set of the Firefly series and the movie Serenity. In the movie a new character called Mister Universe has the line “You always bring me the very best violence”. Even though he was talking to our hero Mal, I think I’ll start calling Radley “Mr. Universe” from now on. He always brings us the best violence. And while I wouldn’t have thought it possible, I mean that in a good way.

    Keep agitating Mr. Universe.

  4. No law at all in Chicago. Lovely.

  5. I feel kind of guilty about it, but I honestly wish that bar video had ended with the barmaid pulling a pistol out from under the bar and shooting that asshole in the forehead.

  6. “I’ll include the obligatory “only a small percentage of cops are bad” disclaimer here.”

    Radley, perhaps this is true, but there’s still enough bad cops out there that you’ve been able to make a career out of documenting their egregious transgressions.

  7. What do you do when the thugs have a badge? The irony is that without the advent of Big Brother – like surveillance everywhere, these pigs would have probably gotten away scot-free with it (not that they’re necessarily going to get punished now.)

  8. Of course, if that had happened, she would be on the fast track to Death Row; he was a cop, and messages must be sent.

  9. I feel kind of guilty about it, but I honestly wish that bar video had ended with the barmaid pulling a pistol out from under the bar and shooting that asshole in the forehead.

    Then we’d be reading a story about either about how the bartender was facing capital murder charges, or how she was “accidentally” shot by respondents at the scene.

  10. I was in a club outside of Chicago in 1999. Four or five Chicago cops got this, “you lookin’ at me” routine going on, and slugged one of my friends. The place erupted, and the Chicago cops roughed about 10 to 15 people up before being wisked out the back door by club staff. What exactly did the Schererville Police do about it? They protected the Chicago cops. We went to the station the next day, and the “line up” of photos was made of 12 pictures that looked exactly like each other.

    I’m not surprised that some low class Chicago cop beat the shit out of a lady, or that Chicago cops are basically a gang with badges. The whole town lacks class. There, I said it.

  11. i think the other patrons refrained from stopping his assault on a woman because they knew he was in law enforcement. many cops that i know in the bars often loudly proclaim that they are cops and they expect deference…and they are just as fallible as the rest of us perhaps even more so given the nature of their interactions with a selected populace. when all you see is criminal actions day in and day out, then maybe your world view on what is the norm gets skewed…and it doesnt help that police tactics include condoning domination and intimidation to control stituations.

    everytime i read that a swat team yells and curses at the suspects i wonder if that really has the effect of asserting control of a situation or merely adds to fear-fueled confusion in an already dangerous situation. i would much rather our police be taught and expected to remain calm, cool and calculated in complex evironments. my experience in the military was that the best small squad leaders were always the most polite and determined people you would never wanna meet on the wrong end of a raid.

    mike

  12. The paradox of police work is that often the peope who are most attracted to performing such a very, very, difficult job are those least psychologically qualified to attempt it.

    I suspect the competency curve for people in police work is not the familiar bell-shaped curve.

  13. “I’ll include the obligatory “only a small percentage of cops are bad” disclaimer here.”

    Sorry, you lost me here, though you were probably being facetious.

    The day we stop playing nice with these dirtbags and feeling the need to include misleading disclaimers, we’ll have made real progess.

    Every cop who chooses to remain silent or cover up these sorts of abuses is as bad as the perps who committed them. It’s not just in Chicago or that these cases are the exception to the rule, abuses happen just about everywhere, and the protection of abusive cops as a sort of default behavior is the rule.

  14. Hey, the streets are clean. They’ve got trees and flowers planted. There are nice wrought iron fences in many neighborhoods. How do you think it got to be this way? Sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelet.

  15. So, still nothing in the pages of Reason about the Phillip Thompson DC pistol deal?

    You know, all of that “above the law” stuff does not stop at the Chicago river.

  16. What do you expect from a city that puts tomatoes on their hot dogs?

  17. ed – go eat a hotdog with ketchup.

  18. Who cares about the tomatoes? It’s the sauerkraut that matters. Onion-eating ingrates.

    I heard some great cop stories when I went to law school in Chicago. Great, as in bad. I can’t recall if Operation Greylord snagged a lot of cops or not. Probably not, given the code of omert? within the police force. In fact, since it mostly nailed judges and lawyers, the Chicago cops probably were behind the whole investigation.

  19. Chjicago hot dogs are the BEST hot dogs. Do they still have hot green peppers available? Wow, my scalp is sweating at the thought and I have not had a true Chicagodog since 1975.

  20. And they have the best pizza.

  21. And they have the best pizza.

    I second that too!

  22. Kraut, onions, mustard. Period. And the weenie had better be grilled. Boiling is for grannies.

  23. “And they have the best pizza.”

    Some call it pizza. I call it lasagna for fat slobs who don’t sit down while they eat. It is pretty good, though.

  24. Lamar! You are anathema! Launch a new Inquisition! Kill the unbelievers! Destroy their thin crusts!

  25. If it has to be eaten with a knife and fork, it isn’t pizza. Less is more, Chicago lard-butts.

  26. I’ve heard conflicting reports about the media blockade at Grand Central. That’s a working police station, and there are plenty of places that are closed to the public, including the the media.

  27. I second you doc tom. Not only do cops here in Chicago often identify themselves and lord over the rest of us mere mortals, they’re also notorious for carrying their weapons off-duty and not being shy about using them.

    There’s no doubt in my mind that the bystanders new what was up, and didn’t intervene because he was packing heat.

  28. As I said in the last thread about the bartender beat-down, if you are going to get physical with an off-duty Chicago cop, or an off-duty cop in many cities, in order to prevent him from committing a felony, you better be prepared to give him a dirtnap with extreme prejudice, and you better have the cash to hire extremely good defense counsel.

  29. Yikes. I am never going to Chicago now.

  30. When I visited Chicagoland in the late 1990s (did not get a hot dog the whole trip!) I was reminded of how it is still the most bigoted and segregated place this side of Sarajevo. Could not wait to get back to VA and TN.

  31. Only on Hit and Run would a thread about abusive police violence lead to an argument over Chicago versus New York-style pizza.

    New York-style is better, anyway.

  32. I’m surprised nobody is defending the windy shitty.

  33. Baked,
    “What do you do when the thugs have a badge? The irony is that without the advent of Big Brother – like surveillance everywhere, these pigs would have probably gotten away scot-free with it (not that they’re necessarily going to get punished now.)”

    In the bar video (at least, haven’t seen this new one), it wasn’t Big Brother, it was Big Bar Owner that set up the video camera. If it was a city run camera, the footage would never have seen the light of day.

    I’m ALL in favor of video cameras, so long as I’m running them.

  34. smacky speaks truth.

    also, jesus fuck chicago sounds worse than the nypd somehow.

    the sean bell case is in full bloom right now. (guy and john and maybe grand chalupa, this is your cue to detrail things by ranting about sharpton)

    next up the nypd is going to produce a cat who saw the 4th shooter but can only answer in meows to a police interpreter.

    they are so fucking desperate and they know it, too.

  35. In the bar video (at least, haven’t seen this new one), it wasn’t Big Brother, it was Big Bar Owner that set up the video camera. If it was a city run camera, the footage would never have seen the light of day.

    wsdave,

    The reverse is true, also: e.g. Years ago, when my wallet was stolen by a gas station employee and the manager just happened to be changing the video tape when the theft occurred. Practically speaking, as long as the crime will be recorded for evidence, I don’t care who is doing the taping. (Note: this isn’t in favor of Big Brother surveillance or anything on those lines; just pointing out that private businessmen can be just as crooked when evidence is at stake).

    People always protect their own kind.

  36. Chicago has great theater. There. I said something nice.

  37. next up the nypd is going to produce a cat who saw the 4th shooter but can only answer in meows to a police interpreter.

    King Friday must be really out of control if Henrietta had to move to Queens.

  38. ed | March 29, 2007, 12:18pm | #

    Yikes. I am never going to Chicago now.

    We win! Take that, NYC!

    Chicago pizza is horribly misunderstood. We don’t eat deep dish all the time. I have that once or twice a year, usually when we have out-of-town visitors. The pizza we eat nearly once a week is thin crust cut into squares. The crust is like a cracker. Please use this pizza for a more accurate comparison.

  39. If it was a city run camera, the footage would never have seen the light of day.

    Good point. .

  40. “Please use this pizza for a more accurate comparison.”

    known as Naperville Neopolitan

    [runs off to look at lake]

  41. Only on Hit and Run would a thread about abusive police violence lead to an argument over Chicago versus New York-style pizza.

    It is my understanding that the abusive cop had just left a pizzaria where he had ordered deep dish but received not-so-deep dish from an insolent server. That’s what set him off.

  42. VM,
    Don’t confuse the poor people. This is a serious matter. Forget off duty cops beating people up, this is IMPORTANT!

  43. “The day we stop playing nice with these dirtbags and feeling the need to include misleading disclaimers, we’ll have made real progess.

    Every cop who chooses to remain silent or cover up these sorts of abuses is as bad as the perps who committed them. It’s not just in Chicago or that these cases are the exception to the rule, abuses happen just about everywhere, and the protection of abusive cops as a sort of default behavior is the rule.”

    Thank you. Finally someone who doesn’t beat around the bush on this issue.

  44. “Mishandled” is one way of putting it; the more correct way of putting it is “aiding and abetting a felony after the fact.”

  45. Kraut & mustard belong on brauts. I think my personal favorite for chicago style is Gene & Judes with fries and sport peppers on the dog.

    Nick

  46. “The pizza we eat nearly once a week is thin crust cut into squares. The crust is like a cracker. Please use this pizza for a more accurate comparison.”

    Hey, that’s St. Louis style pizza! You can’t claim that as Chicago’s!

    You’re just jealous because we have a professional National League baseball team and you don’t. Go Birds!

  47. Chicago pizza is horribly misunderstood. We don’t eat deep dish all the time. I have that once or twice a year, usually when we have out-of-town visitors. The pizza we eat nearly once a week is thin crust cut into squares. The crust is like a cracker. Please use this pizza for a more accurate comparison.

    Don’t forget the coarse ground corn meal on the bottom.

  48. Hey Sparky – we’re just jealous cuz yer manager sleeps with his foot in a pushed-out position. Ours calls a cab.

    🙂
    (hey – hook up with Warren – he’s local and is lookin for an H&R gathering)

    “Kraut & mustard belong on brauts”
    usually wedding dresses do 🙂

    also – sport peppers belong on a “chicago style”. minus 20 points for redundancy 🙂

    High#: good call!

  49. Didn’t Royko write a long column about how Chicago was also a thin-crust town?

    Chicago was a fun place to be a student. It has a great nightlife and plenty to do. The food is yummy, and the blues bars are great. It has the best art museum that I’ve been to (and lots of other museums that I went to on “free” day), and the lake is nice.

    On the other hand, the crime and corruption are a serious problem, getting around ain’t easy, there’s been one name in the mayor’s office for most of the last forty years, it’s very segregated, and I hate their sports teams. Oh, wait, Wrigley is nice. It and Fenway are my favorite parks. Fenway had the better dogs in my experience, strangely. Must’ve been a good day in Boston or something.

  50. “St Louis style pizza”?
    whatever.
    I’ve blogged this.

  51. …and the lake is nice.

    Et tu, Pro Libertate?

  52. OMG High#!

    All you need is a /. one. Or you could “blog your way across america – Twice!

    yooo da man!

    ProL: when were you there? Yours and #6’s experiences sound similar.

    Obviously, depending on where you live, crime can be a greater or lesser problem. It’s really gotten better, and with the razing of the projects at Cabrini Green, the area around the famous bars (Division Street) is a lot better than it was.

    Wrigley can be a great experience – provided you’re not around tourists or trixies. If you are, it can be one of the worst.

    The Chicago Fire, on the other hand, ROCKS! BARN BURNERS!!!!!

  53. d’oh! sorry for the double.

    YES THE LAKE LOOKS BEAUTIFUL TODAY!!!!!!!!!

  54. Moose,

    you are correct, sport peppers do belong on a chicago dog. Since G&J’s isn’t in the city, I guess it’s not a chicago dog. I forget which town it is in, it’s near Forest Park though. I should have been more specifice, that’s all that comes on the dog-fries and peppers, you get mustard to put on it.

    But, on topic, it has been my experience that there are no “good” cops, just “less bad” ones. Example: the local DARE officer in my hometown who would help to bust up parties, but bought his mj off of my buddy’s older brother.

    Nick

  55. G&J’s is in River Forest. (That town scares me for some reason.) Still a Chicago dog, but they get some sort of weird exception on the ingredients because their fries are so good and they’ve been around so long.

  56. Shit!
    CORRECTION!
    RIVER GROVE

    not River Forest. River Grove scares me. River Forest is my town’s richer next door neighbor. It did have mobsters for a while, though.

  57. The real test is when you order a hotdog “with everything” do they reach for ketchup?

    Harrys (Randolph and Franklin or Wells) had a new guy who reached for the ketchup one day. Just once. 🙂

  58. “Hey Sparky – we’re just jealous cuz yer manager sleeps with his foot in a pushed-out position. Ours calls a cab.”

    Ummm…but…errmmm…and yet…aww, shit. No comment.

    A Hit and Run meet-up under the arch would be fun but, sadly, I no longer live in St. Louis. I moved to the Indiana hinterlands a couple years ago. I seem to recall Stevo Darkly is from my beloved hometown though, plus at least a few other periodic commenters. I hope Warren et al have good luck getting something organized.

    Highnumber, you present a cogent argument, but I remain unconvinced.

  59. highnumber,

    I lived in River City, that funky place on the Chicago River. I used to look off the top of the building at the lake and make some vague connection to my lost Gulf. I used to think about stealing one of the boats at the marina at River City and taking it down (after a few detours) to the Gulf. To escape both law school and the friggin’ cold.

    VM,

    1/1993 – 12/95.

    I was a victim of the Chicago police, who towed my car–without prior notice–when they instantly rezoned our street for a movie shoot. I was told by a law professor that I had no recourse, despite the whole thing being a flagrant violation of the laws of Illinois, the United States, and God.

  60. Right on Sparky!

    High# – you’re crazy man, the StL has been sporting the square beyond compare forever! working at imo’s is a graduation requirement around here. 😉

    VM,
    i’d rather my manager be able to navigate a post-season series than an intersection. since cubbie managers take cabs, does that mean they can’t navigate either one? oooooohh!!

  61. PL,

    i know your professor was right about your lack of recourse as a practical matter, but my understanding was that ignorance of the law may be an excuse to a violation when the law has not been published/made available to the public.

    that’s my crappy 1L grasp of the matter.

  62. downstater,

    Practical is what I’m talkin’ about. Legally speaking, there was nothing right with what they did and nothing wrong with what I did. Due process is for Packers’ fans. At least, that’s the impression I got.

    As near as I could figure at the time, there were ordinances about movie shoots, but they did require prior notice. I assumed that the cops missed the original notice to them–while eating some dogs and pizza–and just towed first and asked questions, well, never.

  63. PL,
    Wasn’t River City the original home of the Museum of Broadcast Communications?
    And isn’t River City just a squashed version of Marina City?

  64. High#: right on the second, at least. A friend of mine used to keep his boat there!

    Downstater: I don’t have a comeback. 🙂 I give a gracious bow and yield to you! Well challenged, Sir!

    ProL: shudder. the dark times. bummer, man!

    Sparky – welcome to the Hoosier state (family is from Kokomo)! Just as long as you’re not a Purdue fan 🙂

  65. As a 25 year resident of Chicago my experience with the Police has been all good. Helpful, friendly and always close bye. I guess I don’t frequent the bars the cops do. That said, the cops do seem to circle the waggons to protect and/or cover up for the bad apples. I don’t know what the Supt. can do other than whimper. It is a beauracratic fortress, not controlled from the top.

    Silver Shovel was the investigation that sent a dozen judges to jail.

    ED. You would not fit culturally in Chicago. Sauerkraut on a hot dog? Thats worse than ketchup.

  66. So, still nothing in the pages of Reason about the Phillip Thompson DC pistol deal?

    You know, all of that “above the law” stuff does not stop at the Chicago river.

    Nah. The Reason staff aren’t quite ready to abandon their schoolgirl crushes on James Webb, at least as long as he’s giving Bush the middle finger.

    But it will happen someday. In his heart, Webb is an elitist asshole and in a few years that will be obvious to everyone.

  67. Wasn’t River City the original home of the Museum of Broadcast Communications?
    And isn’t River City just a squashed version of Marina City?

    And isn’t that where they got all them pool halls? And trouble, too, with a captial “T”.

  68. So the theory is that Reason is being untrue to libertarianism, and biased towards Democrats, for NOT condemning Jim Webb and his aid for posessing a firearm?

    You, uh, want to take another crack at that?

  69. Nah. The Reason staff aren’t quite ready to abandon their schoolgirl crushes on James Webb, at least as long as he’s giving Bush the middle finger.

    But it will happen someday. In his heart, Webb is an elitist asshole and in a few years that will be obvious to everyone.

    Ah, it is more complicated than I thought. Goes beyond having a D behind his name.

    So, are you saying that Reason is in the pocket of “Big Finger”?

  70. Captain Holly,

    New theory: Radley reloads 9mm for Webb and is not about to attack his customer!

  71. So the theory is that Reason is being untrue to libertarianism, and biased towards Democrats, for NOT condemning Jim Webb and his aid for posessing a firearm?

    No, it’s because when Webb’s aide was arrested for carrying Webb’s gun that he didn’t know was in the bag (because Webb didn’t tell him), instead of standing up for him the good Senator let him go to jail and take the rap for it.

    I would think that all libertarians would be outraged by the idea that someone who is Well-Connected and Powerful would be able to avoid the legal consequences of his actions, especially one who supposedly considers the DC gun ban to be unconstitutional.

    When I was a Marine in NCO school one of the first things we were taught was to stand up for your subordinates if they didn’t do anything wrong. Webb is basically letting Thompson twist in the wind for something he wasn’t responsible for.

    Oh, and incidentally, Senator Hutchinson introduced a law to overturn the stupid DC gun ban. Webb is not a co-sponsor.

  72. New theory: Radley reloads 9mm for Webb and is not about to attack his customer!

    9mm? I thought it was a 1911!

    This makes it even worse!

  73. Did a fight just spill out of one thread and into another?

  74. No, it’s because when Webb’s aide was arrested for carrying Webb’s gun that he didn’t know was in the bag (because Webb didn’t tell him), instead of standing up for him the good Senator let him go to jail and take the rap for it.

    Also, we can get into all sorts of other things, which are always fair game for other politicians, like the stories of who’s gun it is not matching (Thompson claimed it was Webbs, Webb denies it), you know, the stuff that makes US Attorney firings a “scandal” of Watergate proportions.

    We can get into how the politically connected are in violation of a machine gun law AND unlicensed ammo and don’t even get charged with them, but pretty sure that anybody commenting here would be.

    You know, stuff like that.

  75. 9mm? I thought it was a 1911!

    This makes it even worse!

    Yea, so much for that Webb == badass image that has been so carefully cultivated in certain corners of the interwebs.

  76. I just blogged this.

  77. Moose,

    I was startin to like ya, then you had to go say sumthin bout the Boilers. You’re dead to me.

    Nick

  78. Captain Holly,

    And your understanding of what was said between Webb and his aide comes from where, exactly?

  79. Nick M 🙂

    I understand. I’ve been dead to me ever since I discovered my Noam Chomsky Blow up doll!

  80. highnumber,

    That’s not a Weird Thread Phenomena. It’s actually pretty standard now that you provided the right framework to identify it.

    But you’re the first person I’ve seen that put some structure around what oftentimes happens.

    Balloon Juice has a name for the last behavior you note: they call it a “jackalope.” As in, “Hey, everybody! Look over there! It’s a jackalope!” meant as a distraction from the topic at hand (usually that the commenter prefers were not discussed). Jackalopes can happen anytime during the thread, though. They can even be the first comment.

  81. PL,
    Wasn’t River City the original home of the Museum of Broadcast Communications?
    And isn’t River City just a squashed version of Marina City?

    highnumber,

    Yes, though I somehow never went in three years of living there. Maybe it left before then? I suddenly seem to recall that it said that on the outside but was empty. I could be misremembering, but it would be quite unlike me not to check it out.

    Not really. River City is Marina City-like, but more freaky Jetsonsesque in conception. And it lacks the Steve McQueen connection. I actually liked the place quite a bit–it even has/had a Bally’s in the building.

  82. “I feel kind of guilty about it, but I honestly wish that bar video had ended with the barmaid pulling a pistol out from under the bar and shooting that asshole in the forehead.”

    Then you would have a Quentin Tarantino movie.

  83. LOVE YOUR BLOG, HIGHNUMBER…

  84. Way more Chicago area Hit N’ Runners than I imagined.

    1. Chicago PD better today than what we saw at the 1968 DNC, but nowhere close to where they ought to be. Office of Pro Stnds is a joke.
    2. Love the city, but glad I’m not in it. There is a Pavlovian tolerance for any crap that Daley pulls just because the trash gets picked up. I don’t get it.
    3. Kraut is only for Polish and Brats.
    4. Thin crust is for pussies.

  85. Tbone,
    re #3:
    Close, but kraut is for brats only. Polishes are meant to be eaten Maxwell style. The only correct manner is Maxwell style.

  86. “LOVE YOUR BLOG, HIGHNUMBER…”

    Yeah, me too, although mine is more of a lower-case love. I hope The Man doesn’t find out about your blogsquatting and bring the hammer down old-school (meaning like Cavanaugh would have done, I guess).

    “Sparky – welcome to the Hoosier state (family is from Kokomo)! Just as long as you’re not a Purdue fan :)”

    No, no Purdue fandom – I work at IU in Bloomington, so I’m pretty sure I’m contractually obligated to root against Purdue.

    I do suffer from some Chicago-related indignity here in southern Indiana. We’re on the border of Cub and Cardinal fan territories, so while I can pick up Cards games on the radio from several nearby cities, my local sports station carries the Cubs and Ron “aw jeez!!” Santo. It’s an indisputable fact that the Cardinals have a better radio broadcast team in addition to having a better team (Mike “Moonman” Shannon may be almost as big a homer as Santo, but his rambling, incoherent statements are much more entertaining).

  87. And your understanding of what was said between Webb and his aide comes from where, exactly?

    Uh, the statements from the aide himself.

  88. I just blogged this.

    Good use of the bar fights metaphor. Ties it in with this thread quite nicely.

  89. Word to the wise for everyone who posts from work. If you use your name, be very careful not to accidently hit the print button in IE.

    Nick

  90. You all have a love for the tube steak that the southern baptist convention ruled to be sinful.

  91. VM,

    Never get caught in bed with a dead girl, a live boy, or a bearded punctured blow-up doll.

  92. “Don’t mind if they’re dead

    as long as they aint cold.”

    250 points……name that movie

  93. I just blogged this.

    highnubber!!! you Democrat shell. this stuff I expect on kos or something.

  94. We’re on the border of Cub and Cardinal fan territories,

    You could end up a Cubs fan the same way George F. Will did.

  95. If I may say something about the Chicago Police Department and freedom of the press, I am glad for the wide exposure that these two stories have received, because this could lead to only a cleaning up of the department. That’s the good thing here for the city.
    Also, I have lived in Chicagoland my whole life, and the worst experience I have had with them is that they did not try too hard to find the guy who broke into my car in the middle of the day while I was working. I would have appreciated it if they had put at least a small team of detectives on the case or even one guy, provided that he was their best man. Seriously, I have never had an issue with them. They have alway done right by me.

    (Full disclosure: I am related by blood or marriage to at least three current or retired Chicago Police officers and have known a few more.)

  96. “The policeman is not there to create disorder, the policeman is there to protect disorder.”

  97. “You could end up a Cubs fan the same way George F. Will did.”

    So if Cardinals fans grow up to be liberal and Cubs fans grow up to be conservative, who does one root for in order to become a libertarian? I don’t think it’s possible to grow up being both a Cardinals _and_ a Cubs fan (at least, I certainly hope it’s not).

  98. A Hit and Run meet-up under the arch would be fun but, sadly, I no longer live in St. Louis. I moved to the Indiana hinterlands a couple years ago. I seem to recall Stevo Darkly is from my beloved hometown though, plus at least a few other periodic commenters. I hope Warren et al have good luck getting something organized.

    Warren is in St. Louis? Since when?

    I would enjoy a St. Louis gathering. As long as it doesn’t involve dragging bowling balls through broken glass at the Bowling Hall of Fame in order to sniff the butts of the dogs at the Dog Museum.

    Also, there are two kinds of human beings in this world:

    1) Those who can appreciate the wonders of St. Louis style pizza, especially Imo’s.

    2) Those who are mere clumps of cells.

  99. So if Cardinals fans grow up to be liberal and Cubs fans grow up to be conservative, who does one root for in order to become a libertarian? I don’t think it’s possible to grow up being both a Cardinals _and_ a Cubs fan (at least, I certainly hope it’s not).

    Actually, he has an entertaining story about growing up in Illinois, half way between Chicago and St. Louis, and listening to both teams on the radio.

    He became a Cubs fan because he could not stand the announcer for the Cardinals.

    Not sure if Jack Brickhouse (my favorite announcer ever) was yet the announcer for the Cubs, but the announcer for the Cardinals was Harry Caray.

  100. So if Cardinals fans grow up to be liberal and Cubs fans grow up to be conservative, who does one root for in order to become a libertarian?

    If personal experience tells me anything, the White Sox.

  101. Ironic, because Reinsdorf got public financing to build the current park.

  102. “So if Cardinals fans grow up to be liberal and Cubs fans grow up to be conservative, who does one root for in order to become a libertarian? I don’t think it’s possible to grow up being both a Cardinals _and_ a Cubs fan (at least, I certainly hope it’s not).”

    I’m going to crawl out on a limb and say kids who physically go out into the sunlight and hit an actual ball with an actual bat in a vacant lot are most likely to grow up to be libertarians. Particularly if their presence in the aforementioned vacant (but not unowned) lot results in a spirited discourse on the topic of property rights and natural law.

  103. I’m not surprised that some low class Chicago cop beat the shit out of a lady, or that Chicago cops are basically a gang with badges. The whole town lacks class. There, I said it.

    Lamar, don’t be afraid to say it. I’ll see you and raise you.

    Chicago is a sh*thole. I’ve been to Chicago several times for both business and pleasure, and every single time I’ve been harassed by either the cops or the residents. Not once have I had a trouble-free visit to Chicago. Although not necessarily a world traveler, I’ve been to both coasts and many places in between, and Chicago is – by far – the worst. I can think of no redeeming qualities.

  104. So, where are the British exploited and mistreated prisoner stories? Right behind the Webb/Thompson gun stories?

  105. I’ll include the obligatory “only a small percentage of cops are bad” disclaimer here.

    And don’t you forget it.

  106. Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You’re not cop, you’re little people!

  107. guest,

    What, are you some kind of an asshole or something?
    Chicagoans are famously friendly. Seriously.
    Are you some crazy hippy-dippy sort out to “blow our minds, maaaan”? Cuz that’s the only sort of person I see get the cold shoulder in Chicago – people who think they need to educate and enlighten us.

  108. So if Cardinals fans grow up to be liberal and Cubs fans grow up to be conservative, who does one root for in order to become a libertarian? I don’t think it’s possible to grow up being both a Cardinals _and_ a Cubs fan (at least, I certainly hope it’s not).

    The Kansas City Royals. Many years ago, they were a factor, and now things are bleak for them every year.

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