Immigration

Bob Barr on Republicans Who Have Learned To Stop Fearing Big Gov't, as Long as It Is Hunting Illegal Immigrants

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Former Georgia GOP Rep. Bob Barr continues to, er, grow into a firebreathing libertarian. In this Wash Times col, Barr, now working for the Libertarian Party, rips into the Tom Tancredos, Ed Royces, and John "It's Time To Stop Tolerating Forced Abortions and Sexual Slavery" Doolittles of the world–all "small government" Republicans who want to make businesses enforce draconian immigration requirements.

Snippets:

It was not Big Government Liberals who rose up in arms to stop "greedy" financial institutions from offering [credit cards to people without Social Security numbers]. It was Small Government Republicans, like Colorado's Tom Tancredo and Californians Ed Royce and John Doolittle, who waxed indignant that banks engaged in such a free market activity as extending credit to someone who proved creditworthy but did not have a Social Security number….

Thus is being writ another chapter in the long and unfortunate march of the Republican Party to the pinnacle of Big Government; a march that figured prominently in the party's 2006 electoral losses but which continues seemingly unabated in the new, 110th Congress.

If such heretofore conservative stalwarts as Tom Tancredo and John Doolittle now champion increased government power to mold private businesses into their preferred image, is there really any hope left for the dwindling camp of Reagan Republicans who sincerely and consistently dislike government power?

More here.

Reason's Dave Weigel talks to Barr about his role in the LP and his oh-too-slow-moving desertion of the drug war (move it along, Bob, people are rotting in jails!).

Reason's special ish on immigration here.

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  1. Before someone mentions that Tancredo et al are not a fair “face” of the Republican party, remember that the grass roots of the party, heard on talk radio, are huge supporters of the anti-immigration stuff and were mad that the Republican party was not anti-immigration enough!

  2. Heh – funny argument. BoA can issue a card to a Mexican in Mexico, but not a Mexican in the US.

  3. The WOD is Bob’s albatross. Until he atones for that sin, I don’t think he should be taught the secret handshake. This quote makes me even more suspicious of his intentions. He’s still talking to Republicans. He wants to take back/take over/redirect the GOP.

    I’m not actually opposed to a libertarian take over of the GOP in principal. It’s just that Republicans always betray the libertarians once elected.

  4. Lets see, I’m credit worthy and rest assured, American Express would have never given me my Platinum card without a social security number. In other words, lawbreakers, illegal alliens rank above me in the scheme of things. Just as with college tution. Some states grant illegals in state tution but American citizens of neighboring states get the shaft. Pathetic.

    Ron Paul Tom Tancredo 2008. Bring the boys home and put them on the border. Stop the Mexican invasion. Piss off the Corporate welfare pimp elites. Especially leftist Neo libertarians

  5. William R,

    1. I doubt they are giving people without social security numbers platinum cards. You can still feel like you rank above them.

    2. States grant illegal residents of the state resident college tuition. Completely appropriate.

  6. Let any American citizen try and get a credit card without a social security number. Ain’t gonna happen.

    And no, granting illegal aliens in state tuition while denying it to American citizens is not appropriate. In fact, it’s against the law.

    Ron Paul Tancredo 2008. Bring the boys home and put them on the border. Stop the Mexican invasion. Piss off the Corporate welfare pimp elites. Especially leftist neo libertarians.

  7. William R: what “neighboring states” do with their tax money is none of your business. When you pay into their tax coffers you can bitch about what they do with the money. And, of course, you will have established residency and get the subsidized education you seek. Just like the other immigrants have done.

    And BofA would be happy to issue you a credit card with an SS#. They said so in the press release. Not a platinum card, to be sure, and you would have to pay a higher interest rate but knock yourself out.

  8. sure it’s my business. When states give breaks to people who aren’t even supposed to be in the country, and punish American citizens, that makes it my business as a taxpayer

  9. It’s not your tax money. If it’s your state, well, write an angry letter to the governor. But neighboring states can do whatever the hell they want with their own money. What part of “federalism” don’t you understand? Why do you think neighboring states owe you their tax money? They can throw it in the lake or give it to Frenchmen and there’s not a damned thing you can do about it. And that’s what makes America great.

  10. But in this case you’re NOT the taxpayer, and the immigrant is. An immigrant, illegal or not, who’s been in a state long enough to establish residency has been paying taxes to the state that entire amount of time or more. You’re not paying any taxes to the state you don’t live in. Since the universities are subsidized through state taxes, this makes perfect sense, and as MikeP says completely appropriate.

    Regarding BoA, you seem to think that the company will go out of its way to make sure that someone is an illegal immigrant before giving them a (very high interest) credit card? If you really want higher interest and a lower credit limit go ahead and go and refuse to show your SSN card

  11. Let any American citizen try and get a credit card without a social security number. Ain’t gonna happen.

    1. Mexicans are “American citizens.” Just like Canadians. They aren’t U.S. citizens.
    2. U.S. citizens can get credit cards without SSANs if they move to Mexico or Canada.
    3. The Mexicans qualifying for the BoA card in the U.S. have official U.S. government taxpayer identification numbers instead of SSANs. Why should BoA discriminate against someone approved by the U.S. government?

    And no, granting illegal aliens in state tuition while denying it to American citizens is not appropriate. In fact, it’s against the law.

    True, regardless of what tuition is charged. In my experience non U.S. citizens enrolling in U.S. colleges and universities must either be legal residents or have current student visas. So they aren’t “illegal.”

    In-state tuition is a matter for state law, and many states grant certain exceptions, for instance for military personnel temporarily in the state. Or certain scholarship winners.

  12. …the grass roots of the party, heard on talk radio, are huge supporters of the anti-immigration stuff…

    Are there any squawk hosts out there who are not borderline-racist, xenophobic neo-knownothings? (Of course not – that would imply independent thinking on the part of the hosts and the suits who hire them…)

  13. Reminder to Reason: always check my site before posting on these matters, thereby saving embarassment. At the link, you’ll see why Barr (and his ideological friend Bill Press) is wrong about this matter.

    As for tuition, MikeP needs to brush-up on that old “what is citizenship” thing. When states give more benefits to citizens of other countries than they do to fellow U.S. citizens from other states, that devalues U.S. citizenship. Anyone who supports that should find another country to live in.

    Regarding it being “illegal”, the law is actually that U.S. citizens are entitled to any state benefit that that state gives to illegal aliens, meaning that because CA gives DiscountedEducations to IllegalAliens, they must also give it to U.S. citizens from any other state.

    The problem is getting that enforced; a group complained to the DHS but I don’t know what happened to that complaint. There have been lawsuits about this, but they were thrown out on technicalities.

  14. Regarding it being “illegal”, the law is actually that U.S. citizens are entitled to any state benefit that that state gives to illegal aliens

    Just to satisfy my curiosity, what law would this be?

  15. Mr Reminder Guy: The aliens are considered residents of the state they live in, and the state government isn’t obligated to defend US citizenship. It’s obligated to run its own Goddamned state the way it sees fit. They pay up to the state and the state looks after them. The state’s obligation is to its taxpayers, not some loons who think America is some kind of blood cult.

    And I won’t be looking for a new country any time soon, thank you very much for your suggestion. I think I’ll stay and fight for the America my ancestors emigrated to a couple of centuries ago. You, sir, have neither the authority nor the firepower to get me to move along.

  16. Reminder to Reason: always check my site before posting on these matters, thereby saving embarassment [sic].

    Tee hee!

  17. James, like other libertarians, is confused over that whole “Constitution” thingee.

    As for MikeP’s question, you can find the details, and a link to the law, here:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186876,00.html?sPage=fnc.national/education

  18. Most of the immigrants I know go to private colleges ( in state tuition doesn’t apply), don’t get financial aid, work 2-3 jobs, graduate with 4.0,etc.

    While lazy-ass Murricans sit around jerking off and complaining about not getting in-state tuition for OUT of state colleges they arent even quaified to attend ( because they spend all their time jerking-off and are also mentally defficient Jingos)

  19. As for MikeP’s question, you can find the details, and a link to the law, here:

    Thanks. I found the relevant portion of the law:

    SEC. 505. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State (or a political subdivision) for any postsecondary education benefit unless a citizen or national of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident.

    Speaking of confusion over that whole “Constitution” thingee, what is the imagined power of Congress that gives it the authority to pass such a law? As James notes, what a state chooses to charge a state resident for state school tuition is absolutely and positively not within the legitimate functions of the federal government.

  20. MikeP: when you hate some person or group and are eager to pander to hateful mob, it’s easy to rationalize handing more power over to the Federal government so they can hate ’em, too. It’s pretty much what got us the government we have.

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