The Volokh Conspiracy
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Judge David Tatel on the Roberts Court, the Voting Rights Act, and the Notorious RBG
In a forthcoming book. retired Judge David Tatel offers candid thoughts and spills the tea.
CNN's Joan Biskupic offers a preview of some of what's contained in retired Judge David Tatel's forthcoming book, Vision: A Memoir of Blindness and Justice. Judge Tatel was appointed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit by President Bill Clinton, and was a highly regarded member of that court for nearly three decades. Had Al Gore been elected President in 2000, some believe he would have nominated Judge Tatel to the Supreme Court if given the opportunity.
According to Biskupic, Tatel echoes the common (and incorrect) complaint that the Roberts Court has been less respectful of precedent than prior courts. She reports that Tatel charges that the Roberts Court "has 'kicked precedent to the curb' and become 'a tragedy' for civil rights and the rule of law." Assuming that Biskupic's report is accurate (as the book has not yet been released) it is a shame to see Judge Tatel repeat this claim about the Roberts Court and precedent because, as I have shown, the Roberts Court has actually been less prone to overturn precedent than prior courts. It is one thing to criticize the substance of the Roberts Court's decisions. It is quite different to make demonstrably false claims about the nature of the Court's decisions.
Biskupic's story also confirms what many have long suspected about the Supreme Court's decision in NAMUDNO v. Holder, concerning the Voting Rights Act.
In his book, Tatel wrote that Ginsburg told him about the behind-the-scenes dealings in a 2009 case, known as Northwest Austin v. Holder, that was the forerunner to Shelby County. The 2009 case left the VRA's Section 5 intact, although its reasoning laid the groundwork for future obliteration. (Tatel had authored the lower court opinions in both Northwest Austin and Shelby County.)
When the Supreme Court ruled in 2009, Tatel said, "What I couldn't figure out was why the four liberal justices had joined the Chief's majority opinion. … (T)he unnecessary and irrelevant jabs at Section 5's constitutionality? Why had they gone along with that part of the Chief 's opinion? I suspected I knew the answer, and Justice Ginsburg herself later confirmed my suspicions."
"The justices had initially voted 5–4 to declare Section 5 unconstitutional, but they later worked out a compromise: The majority agreed to sidestep the big question about Section 5's constitutionality, and the would-be dissenters agreed … to sign on to the critique of Section 5," the judge wrote. "With that compromise, the liberal justices had bought Congress time to salvage the keystone of the Civil Rights Movement."
Congress never acted, and Tatel contends the 2009 compromise cost the liberals: "They sure paid a high price: an unrebutted opinion that criticized the VRA and, worse, endorsed a new 'equal sovereignty' doctrine with potentially profound implications," Tatel wrote of the principle that restricted Congress' ability to single out certain states, in this situation because of past discriminatory practices. "The Court's opinion in Northwest Austin thus planted the seeds for Section 5's destruction."
It is certainly true that the NAMUDNO decision "planted the seeds" for the Shelby County holding, in that it flagged the constitutional concerns that underlay the Shelby County decision. But according to this account, there would have been five votes to invalidate Section 5 either way. Thus what NAMUDNO actually accomplished (as some of us have pointed out before) was to give Congress the opportunity to revise Section 5 (and, specifically, to update the statute's obsolete coverage formula) so as to preserve its constitutionality. In other words, a majority of the Court was willing to stay its hand, and refrain from invalidating a federal statute, in the interest of deferring to Congress. That Congress did not avail itself of the opportunity, is not the fault of the Court.
The Biskupic story notes other tidbits from the book, such as how Justice Ginsburg resented the pressure to retire under a Democratic president, and suggests that RBG's death during the Trump Administration likely encouraged Judge Tatel to retire soon after Joseph Biden took office. This Adam Liptak interview with Tatel suggests much the same:
Judge Tatel said his retirement was linked to a lesson he drew from Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's decision to remain on the bench despite calls for her to step down in time to let President Barack Obama name her successor.
"We had dinner here at this table several times," he said. In the book, he described "her annoyance with commentators who were calling for her retirement."
Justice Ginsburg's contributions to the law will endure, he said. "But there's no denying," he wrote, "that her death in office ultimately contributed to Roe's downfall," with Justice Amy Coney Barrett — rushed onto the court by President Donald J. Trump and Senate Republicans — casting the decisive vote to eliminate the constitutional right to abortion.
Judge Tatel, now 82, wrote that he had stepped down because he "didn't want to take the chance that my seat might be filled by a president who'd campaigned on picking judges who would fulfill his campaign promises."
But there was more. "I was also tired," he wrote, "of having my work reviewed by a Supreme Court that seemed to hold in such low regard the principles to which I've dedicated my life."
I look forward to reading the book when it is released.
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As a sense check, obviously all of this is sub-optimal. In a perfect world, individual judges don't have "a contribution to the law" that outside commentators (as opposed to their colleagues) might recognise and comment on, and we would not consider it normal that judges retire for political reasons.
(And, while it's not mentioned in the OP, in a perfect world judges wouldn't use oral hearings as a political debating society, trying to out-argue each other in question-format.)
In a perfect world, judges wouldn't have as many cases, at least not the sort of cases which arise from human wickedness. The only cases they'd have would be friendly disputes about good-faith disagreements which the friends are sincerely trying to settle.
That's a more perfect world still. All I was suggesting was a level of perfection that other countries seem perfectly capable of achieving.
"But there was more. "I was also tired," he wrote, "of having my work reviewed by a Supreme Court that seemed to hold in such low regard the principles to which I've dedicated my life.""
Poor you.
The next Congress needs to impeach and remove at least 100 Federal Judges. This is exactly why this is necessary.
Impeached based on what supporting facts? Please be specific.
Still waiting, Dr. Ed 2. What facts support impeaching and removing at least 100 federal judges?
General Principle.
Remember that sentiment as better Americans continue to stomp right-wingers and their deplorable thinking in the culture war.
"I look forward to reading the book when it is released."
If the whole book is as whiny as these excerpts, why?
This post convinced me not to read the book.
Bob and Roger don't go for none of that book learnin'.
No ethics code says that I have to be impartial about what books I read.
We read David's comments, so that is enough whining for me.
Federal judges are, as a class relative to other occupations, whiny bitches.
You see a lot of whining from cops in the media, but I don't know if those cops are representative of their colleagues. Society is so unfair, it doesn't appreciate them, etc.
"I was also tired," he wrote, "of having my work reviewed by a Supreme Court that seemed to hold in such low regard the principles to which I've dedicated my life."
He has principles ?
According to Biskupic, Tatel echoes the common (and incorrect) complaint that the Roberts Court has been less respectful of precedent than prior courts.
Ah, one of them would appear to be "making things up."
Still, Clinton judge, gotta give him props for that. Not quite so shameful a provenance as Obama judge or Biden judge.
Speaking of Brandon, he is going to address the nation tonight?
Unless he's announcing that he's not running -- like LBJ -- he's playing with fire.
Question: If he tells the nation that Trump is guilty, and presuming the presumed conviction is reversed on appeal, can SCOTUS preclude a retrial on the basis of this? I remember that some of the 1970s bombing cases were thrown out on FBI misconduct. I also remember the concerns of Nixon saying Manson was guilty.
No.
It would be stupid of Biden to do, especially because it doubles down on the oft-denied sophistry this is not about getting a political opponent, but even so, there can never be a crime so infamous a trial cannot be held and the crook walk free.
The most alarming thing about this trope, to me at least, is that the base assumption underlying it all is that the POTUS, any POTUS, uses the DOJ as a tool for their own whims and that this is normal.
We now know that the puppet and puppeteer are actually reversed.
It's the DOJ and IC that use POTUS and Congress as a tool for their own whims. And that's been the norm since Hoover, at least.
If Joe Biden is exercising the level of control over Special Counsels that his detractors posit, how is that Hunter Biden is being prosecuted?
Can you read good?
You're asking me that in response to a comment where I said it's the DOJ that controls POTUS not the other way around.
The DOJ is only doing this bare minimum stuff because they got called out on their earlier machinations.
Further, Hunter will get barely a wirstslap, like those armed Antifa agitators on J6. They won't treat like they treated those 90 year old disabled vets who went on those guided tours.
Maybe he's decided to go the witness tampering route in this case.
Prior to judge throwing the plea bargain out, he wasnt really being investigated - more of a superficial wink wink investigation, though I suspect you already knew that.
But Trump's saying things on the campaign trail over Berghdal was more than enough for you lot to cheer the reasoning of undue pressure while there was none. There are no principles with you all but the accumulation of power.
1. I defy you to find so much as a single example of my criticizing Trump about Bergdahl. Or anyone who did level such criticism who thinks I’m part of their “lot”.
2. The undue command influence doctrine at issue there is based on the fact that Trump was, at the time, the boss of the judges and jurors involved in a court martial, and that they were expected to follow his orders. Biden is not the boss of the judge or any of the jurors on Trump’s case.
3. Whether or not you think it’s unfair or hypocritical, the fact remains that the Supreme Court is not going to preclude Trump from being retried if a state conviction is vacated on appeal based on comments Biden made.
Other than that, great comment!
What's wrong with former Pres. Obama, Lee Moore.
It is just that he's Black, or it also his Muslim faith?
Carry on, you bigoted, worthless piece of culture war roadkill.
"the Roberts Court "has 'kicked precedent to the curb'"
Always appreciate liberals, who overturned precedent wholesale, complain of lack of respect for precedent.
How about Bowers v. Hardwick? That was precedent.
"One swallow does not make a summer."
Do you really not understand that your example says nothing about the subject under discussion? It's just a random bit of bile you decided to spew.
One can list many examples going back to the Warren court. Which had little respect for precedent, at least those it did not like.
Conservative: Belief in the value of tradition, as hard-wrought wisdom. Does not say there should be no change, but only after much contemplation.
Liberal: Belief the old ways should be overturned, to save society from itself.
Conservatism would inherently look well on precedence, and liberalism on overturning it.
Of course there's the observation, how long does a liberal overturning need to exist before it is established precedence in the long-term, hard-wrought wisdom sense?
Kelo was correctly decided - based on precedent, yet egregiously wrong based on the constitution
I'm sure you can. It's clear from Adler's table.
And of course courts seldom turn over precedents they like, so the last part of your comment would likely hold, in general, for all courts.
It doesn't take a legal realist to see the change in conservative judicial philosophy up and down the federal system now that they have 6-3.
Roberts and Barrett are keeping the quantities down, but don't pretend there hasn't been a shift.
And it's a strawman to argue that stare means all precedents are inviolate.
Try reading my post, again. There clearly has been a shift. It's debatable whether that's good.
It's Tatel who is bemoaning the lack of respect for precedent. Neither I nor he ever said that "all precedents are inviolate." So it's you who are using a straw man.
It looks like you're saying the Roberts Court is doing a good job via tu quoque.
But in reality your post is just a hypocricy play towards David Tatel, based on some hand-waived liberal positions you are not sure he has, and an extremely reductive view of Stare Decisis.
Come on, man. You've read Casey, you know Stare is a nuanced inquiry that will depend on the specific case and law in question. Don't pretend otherwise just to win Internet points.
not all precedent is good precedent
Not all stare decisis is good.
Kelo is prime example - based on the existing precedent, the Kelo decision was solid. Based on the constitution it was egregious.
Yeah, we agree.
You should take it up with BL, who is arguing that if you are unhappy about one precedent being overturned, you must be unhappy at every other precedent being overturned as well.
No, he says liberals overturned lots of precedents.
This is true, especially if you count the Warren Court.
Now, some of these precedents were bad and “needed killin.'” But don’t pretend BL was preaching the sacredness of all precedent.
Overturning Bowers v. Hardwick expanded civil liberties for millions of Americans. Overturning Roe v. Wade shrank civil liberties for tens of millions more while placing them in legal jeopardy and spawning a new form of "legal bounty" law designed to strip social and medical support for women.
But sure... they're totally equivalent.
IOW, your precedents are sacrosanct, others are not. You fit right in with Tatel.
Supreme Court decisions are not "my" decisions and when they overturn precedents they are not "my" precedents.
But if I were to have a category I'd call "my precedents," the one characteristic they'd all share is that they represent expanded freedoms and rights for US residents. I don't see any cumulative good that comes from stripping civil rights from any group.
While overturning Bowers v. Hardwick was a massively positive thing in my life, I can see that it was also a beloved tool of oppression and its loss might be seen as leaving conservatives more exposed to claims of bigotry (homophobia.) In that sense, conservatives might think that losing legal cover for anti-gay discrimination represents a loss of freedom as their actions must now be justified using core principles rather than an appeal to the law.
The point is that your criterion for how stare a decisis ought to be, is whether you like or loathe the precedent. This is an entirely orthodox liberal approach to judgin' - the result is determined as a policy question and the reasoning is filled in backwards therefrom.
But this rather defeats the point of squeaking "precedent !" or "stare decisis !" as a holy principle. It makes it a holey principle - to be walked straight through as convenience demands.
"I don’t see any cumulative good that comes from stripping civil rights from any group."
Like an entire category of innocent living human beings?
You've claimed there are double standards in:
-having opinions on which Supreme Court cases are good and which are bad.
-overturning some precedents while leaving others up.
You reduce nuance enough, you can declare all sorts of stuff the same that aren't. The question is why are you doing that?
You keep making things up and looking for straw men. You may soon earn muting, again.
It's really simple. Tatel's complaints about the Roberts court not respecting precedent are baseless whining, because he and his ideological fellow travelers have no problem overturning precedents, even long standing ones, when it suits them. It's an empty, deceptive attempt at giving a neutral criticism of the Court.
What he is really saying is, the Roberts courts overturned precedents I like. Well, yes, but that criticism begs the question of whether the precedents were worthy of respect.
Tatel’s complaints about the Roberts court not respecting precedent may have a more nuanced view of precedent than your 'all precedent is good or all precedent is bad' take.
There are lots of standards for when to overturn a precedent that are not 'wen it suits.' Anyone who went to law school knows this, and yet you ignore that fact to take the least charitable interpretation you can.
Does it beg the question? I don't know. I haven't read his book.
If such standards existed and are as concrete as you suggest, you'd think every judge would test their drafts against it and never publish a decision that gets overturned.
We're not talking vertical Stare, which is indeed a bright line forbiddance.
We're talking when a Court overrules it's past self.
Correct Roe v wade shrunk the rights of millions of Americans! Americans who were denied the ultimate right. The right to live.
Ah, but you see, shawn_dude & co. don't count the unborn as people with rights. (Sort of like blacks in the old days.)
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, (...) nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Unless a fetus is born or naturalised, it's a bit difficult for it to have rights...
No. The 14th Amendment is not the only source of rights. There is the 10th amendment, state constitutions, and the common law.
What Roe v. Wade did was restrict the ability of states to protect the rights of the unborn. State abortion laws were not based on the 14th Amendment.
"any person within its jurisdiction" covers it
"born or naturalized" only modifies "persons " in the due process clause, in the EP clause its just persons
Unborn babies are "a human being regarded as an individual". SCOTUS will come around eventually.
That's not what sweet infant Lord Jesus whispers in the ears of these gullible, obsolete clingers.
Sometimes I think they genuinely believe that shit. Sometimes I figure they must be making it up. Either way, what a bunch of worthless dumbasses.
So the legal definition of not being born , thus not having constitutionally respected rights justifies killing an innocent human being.
How should a woman who miscarries consequent to a strenuous tennis game, a few drinks, or bumping into a bannister be punished for that killing? Should she be stoned? Burned at the stake? Subjected to the Judas Cradle or the Heretic's Fork?
Anti-abortion absolutists are among the worst of all kooks.
No - but quit making yourself look stupid with idiotic statements
Your personhood bullshit dies on that altar, clinger.
Try not to rely on superstition next time.
If you are 12 or younger, though, that admonition is inapplicable.
The Constitution protects "persons," even if not born or naturalized.
This is most obvious regarding naturalized persons. An immigrant, not yet naturalized, nevertheless has due process and equal protection rights.
Similarly, a human being, though not yet born, is as much a person as an immigrant.
as I have shown, the Roberts Court has actually been less prone to overturn precedent than prior courts.
I don't think you showed that very convincingly.
You acknowledge some problems in your analysis, but there seems to one issue missing.
The more similar a court's ideology is to that of recently preceding courts the less likely it is to overturn precedents. A court with years of courts with similar ideology behind it you have years of courts is not going to overturn precedents at the same rate as one that represents a change.
There are fewer recent decisions you dislike, and some of the most attractive opportunities for reversal have already been taken by your predecessors. The low-hanging fruit is gone.
By contrast, if there has a been a big change in ideology you will see relatively more reversals, just because the opportunities are there.
Look at your table. We move from pre-Warren to Warren to Burger to Rehnquist to Roberts and the rate consistently drops. I suspect the process I define has a lot to do with that.
I don't think you can pretend this ideological trend hasn't been an important contributor to the drop.
Another big problem with the analysis is that it doesn't measure the number of cases per term. The Roberts court takes very few cases compared to the past, and the number of overrules per cases taken would be a more interesting metric.
Finally, while there is no way to measure "importance" of cases, not all cases are the same - age (reliance interests), constitutional v. statutory, and so on, all matter.
I agree that it isn't enough to just assert one's "feels" about what is going on, but I also think that Adler is overstating his own contribution, and that he has demonstrably shown that Tatel's claim is false.
If you look at what Tatel actually said, it is not contradicted by what Adler wrote in any way. It might be hyperbolic, but it is not demonstrably false.
Okay, but when the Roberts court refusing to hear a case, it is usually upholding a precedent.
A court with years of courts with similar ideology behind it you have years of courts is not going to overturn precedents at the same rate as one that represents a change.
should be
A court with years of courts with similar ideology behind it
you have years of courtsis not going to overturn precedents at the same rate as one that represents a change.Sorry for the carelessness.
You seem to disagree with Tatel's incorrect claim that the Roberts Court "'kicked precedent to the curb' and become 'a tragedy' for civil rights and the rule of law."
The naked partisanship is hilarious. You'd think he'd be more circumspect.
And the confused thinking about the Section 5 negotiations makes it clear that he did not retire too soon.
It that partisanship as naked as flying a couple of un-American flags at your house(s)?
Carry on, clingers. Your betters will let you know how far and how long, of course.
"According to Biskupic, Tatel echoes the common (and incorrect) complaint that the Roberts Court has been less respectful of precedent than prior courts."
Biskupic's article states:
"The Supreme Court, Tatel wrote, has “kicked precedent to the curb” and become “a tragedy” for civil rights and the rule of law."
Claiming that the Supreme Court has kicked precedent to the curb is not the same as claiming that the Roberts' Court has been less respectful of precedent than past Courts. The former is an opinion and could be expressed about any particular Supreme Court (The [insert CJ] Court has kicked precedent to the curb). The latter is a claim that can be subject to empirical investigation to determine it's accuracy. Please explain how Tatel's actual statement is "demonstrably false."
Inb4 the Court hasn't used their feet to kick actual precedents to the side of an actual road.
"Claiming that the Supreme Court has kicked precedent to the curb is not the same as claiming that the Roberts’ Court has been less respectful of precedent than past Courts."
It is, by implication. For instance, if the current Supreme Court's respect for precedent were higher than any recent court, it would be dishonest to choose to highlight what little disregard it does have.
No, it's an opinion.
It is not a statement that is capable of being provably true or false, unless you are a moron or overly literal, and believe that it can be disproven because no Justice has taken a copy of an older opinion out to the street and punted it, hitting a curb.
"it’s an opinion."
...and? I never said it wasn't an opinion, I'm saying it's a demonstrably wrong opinion.
" In other words, a majority of the Court was willing to stay its hand, and refrain from invalidating a federal statute, in the interest of deferring to Congress. That Congress did not avail itself of the opportunity, is not the fault of the Court."
Republicans used to support the Voting Rights Act in Congress.
The last update had a much stronger Republican dissent group. "Congress" here is more particularly Republicans in Congress.
The liberals got the best they could get given their minority -- a stay of execution. The ultimate blame is still on SCOTUS for the Shelby v. Holder ruling. The liberals could have dissented more strongly but a 5-4 precedent is still a precedent that can be cited.
Anyway, not germane to this thread, but I thought I’d point out that you can look at the jury instructions yourself. I don't think I need to say for what.
Fifty-five pages. Seems fair.
Seems fair not to give them to the jurors?
I don't like it, but it's NY law.
Wait. NY law prohibits giving the instructions to the jurors? WHY?
.
I did not find that in Biskupic's report. Either Prof. Adler had another source or he's misleading readers.
Carry on, clingers.
Surely what matters is not how many precedents were overturned but the significance of the precedents? Overturning Roe and Lemon may be two fewer than say four cases overturning prior precedents dealing with conflicts between states concerning riverbeds and river banks but from most people's perspective, the former court's actions may be somewhat more significant though the overturned precedents be fewer in number
I find it more concerning how Justices that told the Senate how much they respect precedent act like it was always their goal to overturn certain precedents.
Eh, I would say two things to that.
First, the hearings are all kabuki theater. The Senators ask terrible questions that are about them. And the justices, rightfully, can't answer questions about future cases.
Second, any Senator that now says that they thought that, inter alia, a recently appointed justice would not overturn Roe/Casey is either a fool, or they are lying to cover their behinds.
Or both.
I agree the hearings are a joke.
Senators bloviate, nominees don't answer the questions, instead offering anodyne, carefully scripted "answers," and often lie.
I can't think of a good way to get out of the mess.
Ah ... the Ruth-less court that overturned Roe.
THANKS!!!!!
Prof. Adler has shown only that the Roberts Court has been less prone to *explicitly* overturn precedent than prior courts. His data source is only about explicit overrulings, and therefore misses the substance: “a hallmark of the Chief Justice’s jurisprudence is to not formally overrule cases, but to read them in such a way as they are effectively overruled.” See my comments on his linked post and the methodology for the data source he describes, from the Library of Congress at https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/appx.1/ALDE_00000065/