The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Is Justice Jackson the "De Facto Leader" of Progressive Originalists?
Originalist scholar Larry Solum suggests KBJ could be the Left's Antonin Scalia.
Professor Lawrence Solum, a prominent scholar and defender of Originalism, has an interesting post on Balkinization suggesting that the Supreme Court's newest Justice, Ketanji Brown Jackson, is establishing herself as a powerful force for progressive originaliism on the Court.
His post begins:
A third wave of progressive originalism is now well underway. Justice Jackson is already the de facto leader of a group of scholars, lawyers, and judges who understand the dangers that judicial supremacy and living constitutionalism pose to democracy and equality—given the reality that conservative justices will dominate the Supreme Court for at least a decade or two. Justice Jackson's originalism is a direct and forceful response to the conservative justices' increasing reliance on a selective mix of history, tradition, and precedent to undermine the original meaning of the Constitution's text, while claiming to be "originalists."
As Solum describes the history, the "first wave" of progressive originalism was led by Frederick Douglass (who embraced the Constitution quite fervently in his later work), and the "second wave" was led by Justice Hugo Black.
As Solum notes, many contemporary progressives have embraced "opposition to Justice Jackson's embrace of originalism's progressive potential, both as a counter to conservative living constitutionalism and as the key to unlocking the emancipatory power of the Fourteenth Amendment." Solum believes this is a mistake.
Justice Jackson sees the obvious: progressives must oppose a conservative juristocracy. And the most effective way to do that is to expose the gap between the outcomes that conservatives prefer and the original public meaning of the constitutional text. Justice Jackson is in the vanguard of the third wave of progressive originalism, and she is not alone. Progressive constitutional scholars like Akhil Amar and Jack Balkin at Yale, and progressive lawyers like Elizabeth Wydra at the Constitutional Accountability Center, have labored for decades to lay the foundations for a progressive and originalist resistance to a conservative juristocracy.
Why do some progressives ignore this reality? The answer lies in a misleading but potent narrative about the history of originalism. That history focuses on the role that originalism played in conservative critiques of the Warren Court. This false narrative seizes on the fact that the word "originalism" was coined in the early 1980s as basis for the dubious claim that the idea behind originalism—that judges should be bound by the original meaning of the constitutional text—was invented by conservatives during the Reagan Administration. That narrative is incomplete and inaccurate because it ignores the first two waves of progressive originalism. . . .
If conservative judges are making selective use of history to make originalist arguments for conservative results, then the only way to show this is to make better originalist arguments to the contrary. Failure to make progressive originalist arguments effectively concedes that the constitutional text supports conservative result, legitimating rather than undermining the conservative juristocracy. . . .
Progressives need to support Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, not undercut her. Their reluctance to do so may stem from the fact that good faith originalism offers neither progressives nor conservatives everything they want by way of results. There is a price to paid for good faith originalism. But juristocracy, whether conservative or progressive, is a profound threat to the rule of law. Justice Jackson is right to oppose it.
The full post is worth a read.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Justice Jackson isn't an originalist. She's a liberal, and that means results first, reasoning later.
Akhil Amar has argued that plea bargaining is unconstitutional. 'nuff said.
"She’s a liberal, and that means results first, reasoning later."
That literally describes every conservative on the Court too. It literally describes all judges. I mean the Court's number one originalist is all in on ISL which is the least originalist theory imaginable. He just wants republicans to win. The Court's number one textualist, again Gorsuch, signed onto Alito's California v. Texas dissent which isn't textualist at all and is just Alito guessing about the motivations of various House members.
This idea that only liberals are results-oriented and conservatives aren't and use logic and reason is so farcical it's hard to take seriously.
Look at Dickerson. Look at the AA cases. Look at AEDPA cases.
Gorsuch isn't my cup of tea--he's a flyspecking twit that doesn't understand that there is a work-a-day world.
Dickerson was stupid. Rehnquist was right for once. His affirmative action opinions show a stunning lack of insight into the history of Reconstruction. AEDPA is just him being a dick and making a bad law worse to execute people and render the habeas right a nullity. It's neither intellectually rigorous or curious.
So race-based classifications to hand out goodies are ok under the text of the 14A. That's not a textualist position.
Not an originalist one though. Because it is supposed to be about what the people at the time understood. Original public meaning, not what Scalia understands it to mean today. Again neither intellectually rigorous nor curious.
Scalia was a "text first" kinda guy.
When it suited him. Didn’t stop him from having a moronic conception of cruelty.
Agree here. I saw Justice Scalia once say that he saw nothing in the Constitution prohibiting torture, totally ignoring the 10th Amendment.
Scalia was a, "Twist the text first," kind of guy.That's how he got the Militia Clause out of the 2A. And Scalia remains Exhibit A to prove originalism practiced by lawyers who don't know history will fail in every way except as a power grab.
Nevertheless, Scalia was a far better faux originalist than any of the right-wingers on the Court now.
The prefatory clause doesn't change the meaning of the operative clause.
The one place in the Constitution that they put in a bunch of empty words? Keep dreaming.
You guys should like the militia clause, anyway. Scalia's elimination of it is the only reason assault weapons bans are even plausible. (Militias need assault weapons.)
It doesn't so much change the meaning, as clarify it: It's a right to, as the Miller Court said, military arms.
Mind you, once you have a right to military arms, it's really hard to get a restriction on less dangerous arms past any real rational review. But, still, the 2nd amendment right is to "every terrible implement of the soldier", not "every less terrifying implement of the Elmer Fudd".
You are correct sir.
But it would mean that Heller would come out differently. Because even though you have a right to an AK-47, you don't need it to be loaded by your bedside. Which is why Scalia went all results-oriented and sacrificed Miller and the militia clause.
It doesn’t so much change the meaning, as clarify it: It’s a right to, as the Miller Court said, military arms.
That's a really poor attempt at logic. So, the militia clause means something after all. It means that the people's right to bear arms is for military-grade personal weapons that they would need to participate in a well-regulated state militia. But they don't have to actually be in a well-regulated state militia. As far as I know, even people in the National Guard are not expected to bring weapons that they keep at home with them when training or when called by the state.
I think the idea is, the militia is sort of anyone who wants and is capable. (Maybe not even wants, in some versions.) Then it can be “called up.” The qualifications and mechanisms for that can be codified in law — that’s the “well regulated” part.
"lawyers who don’t know history "
They know more than you about it. You are not an historian, stop speaking for them.
But they don’t know more than historians, which is the problem.
Stephen – we have discussed this before. There is significant historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for common defence
there is also considerable historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for common defence and for self defence
there is also historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for self defence. Granted the bulk of the historical writing covered the first two categories, but the individual right was amply covered in the second category. An important point ignored by the anti individual right group is that there is zero historical writing limiting the right to keep and bears.
If you are an actual (an honest ) historian, you would be aware of that history.
further, The issue of the right to form militia’s was not before the court in Heller.
Your history is wrong. But you’re not alone, so is everyone’s. Which is why originalism is doomed to fail. People are figuring that out.
Anyway, giving meaning to the militia clause doesn’t automatically make it a collective right rather than an individual one. You can have an individual right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of effectuating militias. That’s what the 2A seems like it obviously means to me.
further, The issue of the right to form militia’s was not before the court in Heller.
Which is what makes it especially galling that Scalia went out of his way to undercut it.
Randal 10 mins ago (edited)
Flag Comment Mute User
Your history is wrong. But you’re not alone, so is everyone’s. Which is why originalism is doomed to fail. People are figuring that out."
Are you trying pull Lantrop's version of history or Stephens version of history?
try again -
There is significant historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for common defence
there is also considerable historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for common defence and for self defence
there is also historical writing covering the right to keep and bear arms for self defence. Granted the bulk of the historical writing covered the first two categories, but the individual right was amply covered in the second category. An important point ignored by the anti individual right group is that there is zero historical writing limiting the right to keep and bears.
If you are an actual (an honest ) historian, you would be aware of that history.
Repeating it doesn't make it true! Or there'd be unicorns.
Randal 13 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Repeating it doesn’t make it true! Or there’d be unicorns.
Denying the existance of the historical writings doesnt make you point true.
I don't doubt that there exist historical writings of various kinds. I doubt your interpretation and application of them.
Randal 1 hour ago
Flag Comment Mute User
"I don’t doubt that there exist historical writings of various kinds. I doubt your interpretation and application of them."
that is because you dont bother to actually cross check the historical writings . Same with Lathrop and Stevens in his Heller dissent.
Joe_dallas wants Randal to refute the historical writings that he won't cite. Checkmate!
Stephen I hope you are not laboring under the delusion that at the time the US Constitution was written anyone thought the government could restrict ownership of firearms.
They thought that firearm ownership was important to maintain a trained population who could be called upon to form a militia and defend the Republic, or perhaps even defend the people from a tyrannical government.
This is why firearm ownership was always understood to be a collective right, not an individual one.
There's no constitutional reason that people should be allowed to walk around with a gun in public.
Myself's comment - "They thought that firearm ownership was important to maintain a trained population who could be called upon to form a militia and defend the Republic, or perhaps even defend the people from a tyrannical government."
"This is why firearm ownership was always understood to be a collective right, not an individual one."
Another common Selective originalism
there is far too much historical writing discussing the right to keep and bear arms for the "common defence" and for self defence.
Further there is zero historical writing limiting the right to keep and bear arms to when serving in a militia or serving in the "common defence"
“Collective rights” are a fairly recent invention of the gun control movement. Intended to create "rights" no particular person can be entitled to exercise, so that they can be denied to ALL particular people.
ragebot — That is nonsense. Governments throughout the nation, but especially in the South, barred the right of some people to own guns. The federal government was not empowered to restrict guns. It was also not empowered to protect nationwide guns used for self-defense. Had that been the case, that first bit, about barring guns from slaves in the South would have made any such federal power a burden on the states' own laws, and the South would not have ratified the Constitution.
Stephen Lathrop 16 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
ragebot — That is nonsense. Governments throughout the nation, but especially in the South, barred the right of some people to own guns. The federal government was not empowered to restrict guns. It was also not empowered to protect nationwide guns used for self-defense. Had that been the case, that first bit, about barring guns from slaves in the South would have made any such federal power a burden on the states’ own laws, and the South would not have ratified the Constitution.
Stephen - All this time you claimed to be a historian! - Appears you live in an alternative historical universe
A) Duh - the south barred slaves from owning guns
B) The constitution was signed Sept 1787 and sent out to the states for ratification with 11 of the states ratifying the constition in 1787 and 1788. NC in 1789 and RI in 1790
the bill of rights , including 1a through 10A was ratified December 1791. In sum, your last sentence is clearly wrong since all 13 states ratified the constitution before the ratification of BOR and B) the "south" isnt a state.
always nice to be informed by "historians"
Joe_dallas,
Madison explicitly tied Militias to gun ownership so they could keep guns out of the hands of blacks and avoid a slave rebellion.
Ah, the famous academic historians at The Daily Beast, quoting and citing essentially nothing that supports their core thesis. What a work of scholarship!
You don't seem to know what "explicitly" means, and nothing in that link supports your claim.
Joe_dallas — You are mistaken. I have repeatedly disavowed being a historian. I am not one now. I have never been one. I did get professional-quality historical training as an undergraduate, and in graduate school. But my life followed a different path.
what Scalia understands it to mean today
Well, if Scalia is thinking about anything at all today, he's certainly not telling us.
Why do you liberals side with black criminals first and foremost?
THIS. That conservative justices give more regular lip service to originalism is hardly cover that many of their decisions cannot be squared with the jurisprudence they supposedly adhere to. And that's not to say that every single justice is outcome oriented in every single case. But modifying one's jurisprudence to reach a particular outcome is definitely a bipartisan practice.
Also, we have definitely not seen enough of Justice Jackson to make definitive statements on her jurisprudence one way or the other. But her questioning at oral argument suggests she cares about original meaning at least as much as any other justice (and certainly more that Justice Alito).
"Akhil Amar has argued that plea bargaining is unconstitutional. ’nuff said."
Is it constitutional?
"Justice Jackson isn’t an originalist. She’s a liberal..."
She's a leftist, she's way to close-minded to be a liberal.
And she doesn't know what a "woman" is -- I'm damn sure that the men who wrote the Constitution knew....
Google "Common Good Constitutionalism." It's a new conservative legal theory that says originalism is no longer useful as a legal tool for conservatives and the next step is to recognize that individual rights are not as important as the common good. This theory encourages judges to be more aggressive in supporting outright bans on abortion, sexual freedoms, free speech, and anything else that might harm public morals (as defined by conservatives.) It's an appeal to authoritarianism as a means to ensure the common good.
So if conservatives are abandoning Originalism for legal paternalism, why can't liberals dust off their discarded theory and give it a DIY makeover?
Google the flat mars society for an even funnier joke than “Common Good Constitutionalism.” NASA says Mars is not flat but what do they know.
https://flatmarssociety.weebly.com/
Nope.
Mainly because she has not, to date, displayed the intellectual rigor or curiosity that Scalia had. Maybe she will some day as she gets more comfortable in the job.
Sotomayor hasn't and won't. Kagan is almost that, but I perceive her as more pragmatic, willing to find and use originalism given the current environment in which she exists.
"intellectual rigor or curiosity that Scalia had."
HAHAHA. Oh wait you're serious let me laugh even harder HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
MaddogEngineer — It would take something more potent than the strong force to infuse Scalia's originalism with intellectual rigor. Probably, you don't understand that for the same reason Scalia lacked intellectual rigor. Neither one of you has the slightest grasp of historiography, nor any commitment to the notion that history is a professional discipline of its own, instead of a toy device which anyone can work to produce pleasing effects.
"Neither one of you has the slightest grasp of historiography, nor any commitment to the notion that history is a professional discipline of its own"
Neither do you. Again, you are NOT an historian, stop making Delphic pronouncements like you are.
Uh, he didn't make any "pronouncements."
Lantrhop - you mean like Stephens dissent in Heller where he pretended that historical writing level existed that discussed the individual right.
typo - where stephens claimed that historical writing supporting the individual right to keep and bear arms never existed.
Joe_dallas — Having heard again and again that assertion about Stevens' dissent—that he improperly denied that there was historical support for a federal self-defense purpose to keep and bear arms—I re-read the dissent today. I wanted to be sure I had not missed something important.
You will have to quote the specific language which you suppose shows Stevens' improper denial. I cannot find it.
On the contrary, Stevens specifically acknowledged state powers to protect non-militia purposes for firearms ownership and use. Thus, your task to refute Stevens is to show historical citations to prove a founding era intent to establish personal self-defense as a federal 2A protected right.
By the way, that re-read reminded me that Stevens' dissent was a proper evisceration of Heller, complete with accurate references to its flawed historical reasoning.
She's authored a grand total of one opinion. Perhaps we should wait for a few more before analyzing her jurisprudence.
Can you ask Prof. Solum which originalism we're talking about here?
Framework Originalism
Intrinsicist Originalism
Instrumental Originalism
Liquidated Originalism
Original Intent
Original Meaning
Original Methods Originalism
Original Public Meaning
Semantic Originalism
Structuralism
Textualism
"Halfway Originalism"
"Progressive Originalism"; It's kind of a mashup of all of the above, with the guiding principle that it has to arrive at 'progressive' conclusions.
And "originalism" is just that for conservatives lol
The sort any President is going to nominate to the Court, anyway. While there ARE consistent originalists, the chances of any being nominated to the Court are pretty slim.
Bellmore — Name one consistent originalist with a law degree.
Michael Rappaport
Drinkwater — A Google search does not turn up much for me. Can you tell me who he studied his history with?
OOOH!
Can I add that to the list?
Probably Straw Man Originalism.
You're probably right which is why I always post this list when someone talks about being originalism.
If they don't specifically define which 'flavor' they are, then it's meaningless.
13 versions of the "one true religion."
" If conservative judges are making selective use of history to make originalist arguments for conservative results, then the only way to show this is to make better originalist arguments to the contrary. "
In the short term, this may be a sound observation. From the medium- to long-term perspective, the continuing increase in popularity of liberal-libertarian mainstream positions and arguments (including at the polls) seems likely to influence if not control trajectory, perhaps accelerated by Supreme Court enlargement, House enlargement, admission of states, and the like.
Considering she doesn't even know the difference between a man and a woman...
I'm sure Big Brain on Brett K would show her, but having the Irish Curse, even then she might not notice, maybe Clarence T will straighten her out.
What is the definition of "oxymoron for today?
I like the implicit admission that “originalism” is just conservative results oriented jurisprudence
This from the first Black (I'm not sure) on the Supreme Court.
Either fundamentally dishonest, or a half-wit. You pick.
Her reading of the Reconstruction Amendments is closer to what historians of Reconstruction say than all the self-proclaimed originalists on the court's amateur reading of them. That's neither dishonest nor half-witted.
This from the first Black (I’m not sure) on the Supreme Court.
First Black woman, yes. Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas would dispute what you wrote, though.
I'll give Solum credit for this much: He accepts, expressly, that originalism can't give progressives everything they want. It's easy to be more 'progressive' than the Plessy Court, AND be a thorough going originalist. What the Plessy Court was up to was an abomination from an originalist standpoint, and even conservatives are more 'progressive' than THAT.
But you run out of potential for genuinely originalist progressivism pretty darned fast. The 'progressive' opponents of originalism seem a lot more clear on that than Solum.
So you're admitting that originalism is just a way for conservatives to get what they want through bad history?
No, though it's often that in practice for the sort of 'originalists' who are likely to be nominated for judgeships.
Once politicians realized they could neuter the Constitution's limits on their own power by staffing the Court with the 'right' people, it was pretty much all over for consistent applied originalism, because nobody who got into a position to nominate a judge would want their own power curtailed that much.
That said, conservatives have an easier time with originalism than 'progressives', because what they want, while hardly identical to what the Constitution was crafted to deliver, is at least in less conflict with it.
Bellmore — Your final paragraph is a tacit claim that you yourself are qualified to evaluate both history, and historical methodology. No one who follows your commentary could possibly believe that.
I'm rubber and you're glue???
I don't think she's an "originalist" just by pointing out the Court's conservatives get stuff wrong about history. Actual historians do that all the time and none of them are "originalists." I mean her questioning isn't making claims about either the definitiveness of her understanding of history or the legitimacy of her approach. Originalists by contrast believe they can provide definitive answers to historical questions and that their approach is the only legitimate one.
What she's doing is simply pointing out that the conservatives are engaging in pretty bad history, particularly regarding the reconstruction amendments. That's not originalism, that's just called engaging with primary sources and relevant scholarship to point out flaws.
In the Future Surpreme Court Judges will not be able to tell men from women
When KBJ can pen something like this:
"(That will take quite a bit of doing, by the way, since it is not clear on the face of the Fourth Amendment that evidence obtained in violation of that guarantee must be excluded from trial, whereas it is clear on the face of the Fifth Amendment that unconstitutionally compelled confessions cannot be used.) To say simply that “unreasonable searches under the Fourth Amendment are different from unwarned interrogation under the Fifth Amendment,” ante, at 11—12, is true but supremely unhelpful."
Come talk to me.
Call you when she writes something rendering the Fourth Amendment a hollow and meaningless right? Okay, I'll do that I guess.
?? Dickerson was a Fifth Amendment case . . . .
“since it is not clear on the face of the Fourth Amendment that evidence obtained in violation of that guarantee must be excluded from trial, whereas it is clear on the face of the Fifth Amendment that unconstitutionally compelled confessions cannot be used.”
And? He’s trashing the exclusionary rule here.
Good, needs to be (trashed).
No. He's contrasting the exclusionary rule, which isn't text-based, with the irrationality of saying that some unwarned statements are admissible but others aren't. Let's try to keep up, hmmmkay?
I got 12 inches of Alabama Blacksnake you can "Keep Up" with Mr. Mackey.
My comment was not directed at you.
I agree with the gist of Solum's post, which I definitely found interesting. And I agree that progressives have often ignored or criticized originalism to their own peril. I'm happy to see that problem being rectified (I especially enjoy the work of Evan Bernick at Northern Illinois).
That said, I feel that the description of Justice Black as a "progressive originalist" who saw that "best and most effective way to attack a conservative juristocracy is to show that conservative living constitutionalism is inconsistent with the original public meaning of the constitutional text" is an overly rosy view of his progressiveness. Justice Black authored Korematsu! Dissented in Griswold! Given these (and other) decisions, I am less than convinced that his religious adherence to textualism/originalism was motivated by a desire to combat precedent that enshrined conservative values. I certainly don't think any of today's progressive originalists would agree with Black's decisions in Korematsu, Griswold, Tinker, Katz, or Boutilier.
That said, I'm open to evidence to the contrary. But that Black embraced textualism/originalism to further progressive ends just seems inconsistent with many of the opinions I know Black to have authored/joined.
Actually, I fully expect today's progressives to come around on Korematsu if their heroes in government are the ones deciding who goes to the camps.
Are you just stupid or dishonest? You know that it was the liberals who forced Roberts to acknowledge Korematsu was wrong in Trump v Hawaii?
You so desperately want to be a victim but no one is biting and no one will. You’ll live a long happy life and not be oppressed in anyway other than being told your ideas are wrong and bad. And that’s not oppression, that’s life. If you feel bad about being called a bigot or whatever maybe that’s a sign from your soul that you’re actually doing something wrong and you need to change.
It's "Wrong" only looking through the Rectum-spectroscope. 80 years from now they'll think the same of our killing 100+ million humans (Zygotes, Morullas, Blastulas, Embryos, whatever, they aren't Sea Turtles(they'd be protected then) since "Roe"
Frank
Yeah, so? The left flipped on censorship once they knew they'd be the censors. Why wouldn't they flip on concentration camps once they knew they'd pick the inmates?
You think progressives couldn't rationalize that in much the same way?
Remember, "agnotology", the study of anti-information? The term was a bit high falutin, so they settled on an adopted Russian term, "disinformation". Because, you know, renaming speech you want to suppress makes it something other than speech, and so outside 1st amendment protections.
Think they couldn't pull off the same maneuver with imprisoning people without a trial?
You literally just described the conservative approach to discussion of race, gay rights, and content moderation. It’s not teaching, it’s CRT! It’s not LGBT simply existing, it’s grooming! It’s not a free company making moderation decisions, it’s a town square utility!
Because it’s inconsistent with the entire ideology of American liberalism?
We were talking about the ideology of American leftism, which is ferociously illiberal.
Fair enough. But American liberals dominate the political scene, not tankies.
Anyway no one wants to put Brett in a camp. Ever. Even the tankiest regime wouldn’t bother.
He will live a long happy life with his friends and family. He will hopefully die in his hundreds surrounded by loved ones and thinking about his great life. At no point will he actually be oppressed or in a camp
No, the left didn’t flip on censorship. Your telepathy is failing you yet again.
Brett, you keep talking about Dems gonna do some camps.
You okay?
William O. Douglas supported the Korematsu decision, so I’m not sure if that’s a good litmust test.
Black was a key figure in the Court’s New Deal Revolution and in its Warren Revolution. He was certainly progressive, though a progressive who sincerely thought his jurisprudential principles would limit judicial oppression. Near the end, he found the revolution getting out of hand and he made some protests. That doesn’t mean he was cast into the outer darkness of conservatism.
I aim not political, but I aim for originalism and textualism when I attack a social medium platform for its discrimination.
I am trying to unite the whole court, and I go all the way back to the 17th century in the argument in my petition for a writ of certiorari to the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit.
Social medium platform immunity by current Section 230 caselaw vitiates all anti-discrimination law.
By my standards that vitiation hits the absolute evil bullseye.
If you don’t understand the logic, suppose I am a white racist restaurateur that does not want to serve a black.
I get together with the other white racists to create a discriminatory social medium platform, which must be used to make an obligatory reservation.
Zeran-based caselaw says the social medium platform has complete editorial discretion to remove any user for an undisclosed reason. Guess which user will be removed for an undisclosed reason.
I tried to find an attorney from the pre-Breakup AT&T legal department that might be interested in Martillo v. Twitter because the old-timers understood all the legal issues of digital network common carriage as well as all the technological aspects, which no legal professional involved today in a Section 230 case, seems to comprehend. (I used to prep the attorneys on technology issues. I am an engineer, an inventor, and a patent agent.)
The Internet is a slightly evolved version of a Packet Data Network Service that AT&T provided long before the Internet became so omnipresent. Unfortunately all my attorney acquaintances from the pre-Breakup AT&T legal department seem to have died or no longer to be able to practice.
When I read 47 U.S. Code § 230 (c)(1) & (2)(a), I see a statute that affirms traditional message common carrier immunity for an Interactive Computer Service like 1996 dial-up AOL as long as the ICS obeys common carrier law. 1996 AOL was a dial-up Internet On-Ramp (Section 230 ICS), which is a technology completely different and distinct from a 2022 social medium platform.
Only a message, which is unfit under the principle of ejusdem generis (“obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable”), can be denied common carriage. The statute is needed because not every such 1996 ICS (Internet On-Ramp) was a message common carrier and Congress seemed to have wanted to extend traditional message common carrier immunity to a non-common carrier. (The typical Access Software Provider was not a message common carrier. Access Software Provider technology is obsolete and no longer used anywhere in the Internet.)
My fiancée and I were suspended from all social medium platforms because I am practically Zionist royalty and she is Palestinian. An online posse from Lehava reported us for violating “community standards” on every social medium platform when we tweeted that we loved each other deeply. Social medium platforms have brought back anti-miscegenation culture as well as many other evils.
I have been asking around. Musk has not restored any pro-Palestine user or any pro-Palestine content to Twitter.
It's insane and intolerable from an originalist or textualist standpoint for a few hyperwealthy individuals to host discriminatory open forums in the government-created, government-supported, and government-designated public forum that is the Internet.
It's probably a legal point on which Justice Thomas and Justice Brown-Jackson (and every Justice between) will easily find common ground -- even Justice Kavanaugh. The precedent of Manhattan Community Access Corp. v. Halleck, 139 S. Ct. 1921 (2019) does not apply to a discriminatory social medium platform.
Sounds good to me. The law should be what the actual words literally mean. Then it can be changed by enacting new laws or passing new amendments. No more tricks, no more lies.
For every "conservative" loss this principle causes, there will be ten "conservative" wins.
So the founders wanted "All other Person" (so polite of them not to use the "S" word) cut in half, I guess just above the waist? lets go to the original text!
Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 ".....three fifths of all other Persons....."
I don't think that's what they meant, but who knows? would have definitely ended Slavery.
Frank
"As Solum describes the history, the "first wave" of progressive originalism was led by Frederick Douglass (who embraced the Constitution quite fervently in his later work)"
Fitting Douglass into the progressive pantheon at least has some plausibility since he supported women's rights and was Victoria Woodhull's running mate in 1872 (though Wikipedia says he didn't acknowledge the nomination).
On the other hand, he had a problematic tendency to speak of self-reliance and manhood, like Jordan Peterson.
Today we're more enlightened, and we know that the whole idea of manhood is an oppressive, misogynistic, homophobic and transphobic construct, and self-reliance is a right-wing talking point to justify letting grandma starve.
Jordan Peterson. There's a stellar example of someone who's figured out how to grift from incels by feeding into their sense of victimhood.
Self-reliant manly-men get lost because they refuse to ask for directions. If one's definition of being a "man" comes at the expense of others, it's not really all that self-reliant, is it?
Douglass was thinking in terms of black men vindicating their manhood by fighting for freedom in the Civil War. In addition to the regular risks of a Civil War soldier, there was the possibility of being murdered or sold into slavery in case of capture by the Confederates. I seem to recall a popular movie about such soldiers.
As to Peterson, normally I’d think of him as one of many self-help authors, but he seems to raise hostility by saying some stuff which isn’t woke enough.
I haven’t read all his works, though the part I *did* read said nothing on the question of asking for directions. And I don't recall him promoting victimhood, but maybe I missed it?
"murdered or sold into slavery in case of capture by the Confederates"
Union soldiers of any race didn't fare well after capture -- does the word "Andersonville" mean anything to you? (After the war, its commander, Captain Henry Wirz, was tried, convicted, and executed for war crimes.)
I mention the distinctive peril faced by the black soldiers, so I must be saying the white ones got kid-glove treatment. /sarc
Sure,judge jackson is a progressive originallist. I look forward to her voting with the majority on second amendment cases. I'll be sure and hold my breath until that happens.
Heller and Bruen represent the very problems with originalism that Justice Jackson could be the cure for. A vote to overturn them would be a vote for originalism.
lol. “Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it says.
Randall's comment illustrates why progressives will never be originalists or textualists. They probably missed the point of Animal Farm too.
So does "militia."
Why not combine the two? Don't confiscate arms, instead require men to undergo regular militia training (except for pacifists), including how to deal with natural disasters, mass shooters, and other hazards which are suitable for citizen-soldiers.
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
(1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
10 U.S. Code § 247 - Militia duty: exemptions
(a) [various exemptions]
(b)A person who claims exemption because of religious belief is exempt from militia duty in a combatant capacity, if the conscientious holding of that belief is established under such regulations as the President may prescribe. However, such a person is not exempt from militia duty that the President determines to be noncombatant.
Constitution, Art. I(8)
The Congress shall have Power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress"
Sorry Justice Jackson, your timing is off! Originalism is on the outs. It ate itself. Better to come up with a new ism than try to resuscitate originalism to be more progressive.
It would be a great thing if a Supreme Court Justice did undertake a project to debunk misuse of originalism. The right tool to do that is command of historiography.
Historiography is an academic sub-field. It is the fruit of a continuously-ongoing effort among professional historians. They study to understand: what methods work well to analyze the past; what methods work unreliably; and what methods and notions have proved to deliver spurious analysis. It is historiography which describes what results historical analysis is capable to deliver, and to distinguish what results remain beyond reach, because unavoidable contradictions in historical reasoning forbid them.
It is historiography which explains the indispensable rules to say what qualifies as relevant historical evidence, what might prove conditionally relevant, and what is off limits. In short, historiography distills historical method, to deliver reliable tools expected to work generally to aid almost any historical investigation.
Even intelligent laymen readily understand that science fiction accounts of time travel create abundant opportunities for unresolvable paradox. It is just so with legal originalism in its present degree of development. Originalism, too, is attempted time travel. Indeed, every inquiry into the past is in its way an attempt at time travel, featuring a notable risk of paradox. Historiography can provide guidance to avoid creating paradoxical errors along the way.
To illustrate, without attempting to explain, note that in historical reasoning—as in almost no other subject except fiction writing—the very notions of past, present, and future become ambiguous. For a person in the present, engaged to understand a particular passage of history, the interval between then and now must be considered in double context. From the point of view of the era studied, that interval is the unknowable future, utterly incapable to affect the context of anything which happened then. But from the point of view of the would-be historian, that same interval is a well-known past. And not merely well-known, but highly influential to determine—if the would-be historian mistakenly or unconsciously allows it—the context used in the present to analyze the historical passage under study. That, despite the fact that the studied people in the past knew nothing of such context, and could not possibly have been influenced by it in the smallest particular. But modern accounts of their era can be powerfully influenced that way, and often are.
Pretty obviously, folks who are not mindful that errors of that sort are possible risk committing them abundantly. Scalia in Heller examples the risk.
Historiography is admittedly a recondite subject. Even its existence remains largely unsuspected except among historical professionals. But it should not require an entire historical education to learn enough historiography to critique would-be "originalist," legal arguments.
For a Justice who was a quick study, just to learn a few key concepts from historiography—touching on the notions of controlled use of context, and relevant evidence—would suffice to notably reduce nonsensical historical pronouncements in Supreme Court decisions. Or at least to embarrass colleagues who insist on being historically wrong on purpose.
For Justice Jackson (or anyone else with superior reading comprehension) I suggest Michael Oakeshott's extended essay, On History as a point of beginning. Because Oakeshott's analysis includes premises and concepts which almost everyone will find unexpected—and sometimes even counter-intuitive—it may take several reads to grasp the material fully. Oakeshott makes himself clear in the peculiar way that some philosophers are clear—by explaining everything from first principles. It is a method which armor plates the argument, but sometimes introduces complexity in ostensible service of simplicity.
For anyone who wants to learn to recognize bad history, and how to avoid the methodological errors which create it, On History is worth the trouble. Probably no comparable source is as rigorously reasoned. Had Scalia confronted a colleague armed with Oakeshott, Heller would not likely be the historical mish-mash it became.
The legal take-away might also have been notably different. People who argue from made-up history, without even knowing they do it, risk arriving brimful of confidence at unworthy destinations. Heller examples that, too.
Psuedo-academic nonsense.
Stop pretending you are an historian!
I don't see anywhere that he's claiming to be a historian. Also, he's accusing adventurous (activist) judges of pseudo-academic nonsense. Accusing him of pseudo-academic nonsense is really missing the mark.
Not to take away from Stephen's excellent comment, but reading it reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/nRGCZh5A8T4
“…in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its [Art I, II, III, +14A] powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses be added”
This original text seems to be rather explicitly telling even SCOTUS to fuck off.
But why let human rights separate members of the bar from robust litigation fees?
My main problem with originalists and textualists is that they fail to recognize that some terms in a contract are left intentionally vague. Young lawyers (and often academics) write specific bulleted lists in clauses. Older, lawyers write general catch-all clauses because they know that they can't think of everything. Of course, its impossible to go back in time and confirm that the thing that happened fell within the clause in the contract you wrote 200 years ago. The oldest, wisest lawyers know that the clauses themselves are compromises - Neither side got what they want, but both sides think that they did. What does the clause really mean? Whatever they can convince the arbitrator.
My main problem with originalists and textualists is that they fail to recognize that some terms in a contract are left intentionally vague.
Exactly. I would think that the first task of any originalist would be to show conclusively that it was intended and understood that the Constitution, when ratified, would always be interpreted according to what it meant at that time, even many generations later. And that there was a well understood meaning for each of its provisions as ratification was being debated. Was there some dictionary that was lost to time that they were using to define commerce? Due Process? Cruel and Unusual?
Less than 10 years after the 1st Amendment was ratified, the Federalists passed the Sedition Acts. How can anyone think that it was settled then what Freedom of Speech meant? Or that there even was a fixed meaning to use? It seems pretty obvious to me that how the Constitution would be applied in practice was known to be something that would shake out as the various checks and balances built into it worked back and forth.
The RAGE this turned up in some of the 'originalists' around here.
The deep sense that originalism is for the conservatives, and anyone attempting to use it for other than right-wing outcomes was doing injury to this thing that was their thing!
Um, folks? You're kinda giving the game away that originalism is not actually a theory of interpretation, but a partisan political project.
" kinda giving the game away "
Always mind reading. Surprised you didn't use "its telling" which is your go to phrase.
I explained how their posts give the game away, Bob.
Sorry you can’t follow arguments anymore, just phrases.
Adrian Vermeule already does this in his book on "Common-good Constitutionalism."
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/12/09/revolutionary-conservative-legal-philosophy-courts-00069201
I'm not particularly "raging".
I'd actually read this essay over at Balkinization before encountering it here. I think he's a little over-optimistic about the left embracing any form of originalism. His last paragraph identifies the problem:
"Progressives need to support Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, not undercut her. Their reluctance to do so may stem from the fact that good faith originalism offers neither progressives nor conservatives everything they want by way of results. There is a price to paid for good faith originalism. But juristocracy, whether conservative or progressive, is a profound threat to the rule of law. Justice Jackson is right to oppose it."
It's a price many on the left aren't prepared to pay. They think the march of history is going to inevitably give them victory, that they're sooner or later win it all. Why give up any of that inevitable victory just to be faithful to a constitution written by bad (IOW, not progressive.) guys?
And a great many of the left's victories have come from just that attitude. They're pretty wedded to living constitutionalism at this point.
So some on the left isn’t willing to become originalists in order to effect their policy outcomes via the judiciary
That sounds like an ideological conviction to non originalism well beyond the outcome oriented realists you keep insisting every on originalist is!
You can claim this is faith in the march of history. But that’s some weak sauce attempt to deflect from the actual idealism you have noticed in your ideological opposition.
Non originalists are not the venal tools you take them for, looks like.
I’ve noticed that idealism. It’s an idealism of ends, not means, is the problem. It’s a “By Any Means Necessary” sort of idealism.
Originalism really does constrain you, if you practice it with even minimal honesty. The more honest you are in practicing it, the more it constrains you. (No, I am not impressed with how honestly it is applied by your typical right wing Justice. Not a bit. I just understand that, if they'd shown signs of being more honest originalists, they wouldn't have gotten the job. So they may be the best originalists we can hope for under present realities.)
If your mentality is “by any means necessary”, you ARE going to eschew means that frustrate your ends. At best you’ll use them only when they take you where you want to go, and then drop them like a hot potato the moment the road to the Constitution diverges from the road to left-wing nirvana.
Except here they are eschewing means not ends, Brett.
Originalism as you practice it doesn’t constrain anything except for your own ideological humility.
Evidence of this is how many of you right wingers are mad that someone is using originalist arguments for something other than right wing outcomes.
My mentality is nothing like ends justify the means. More and more lately you are disengaging from actual discussion of methods to cry about liberals being so bad faith evil and camps. That’s not argumentation, Brett, it’s you propagandizing yourself.
You didn’t used to have to do this to yourself.
The RAGE this turned up in some of the ‘originalists’ around here.
The RAGE built up inside of me, fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy.
This myth making and wishcasting of this clear dunce is just over the top.
"Progressive originalist"? PB&J doesn't even know what an original man or woman are.
"Is Justice Jackson the "De Facto Leader" of Progressive Originalists?"
Yes, and she's also the Lord Admiral of the Nebraska navy.
And this:
The Supreme Court further embraced an expansive view of Title VII in Oncale v. Sundowner Offshore Services, Inc., 523 U.S. 75 (1998), where Justice Scalia, writing for a unanimous Court, declared that “statutory prohibitions often go beyond the principal evil to cover reasonably comparable evils, and it is ultimately the provisions of our laws rather than the principal concerns of our legislators by which we are governed.” Id. at 79.
Then why did he outsource it to Grandmama?
Your close-enough-for-government-work paraphrase comes from a speech by Obama in 2008.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obamas-fathers-day-message/
Back then, Obama was unenlightened – he thought that there were two sexes and that marriage was between a man and a woman.
He’s moved on from what he said a decade and a half ago, why can’t you?
It was actually Jessie Jackson who said that -- 40 years ago...
Queenie I am not sure what you are getting at. The two names you mentioned may/probably were homosexuals (although it is not clear in Pulaski's case) which means to me that they clearly knew the difference between men and women and were able to figure out which one they liked.
"Baron Friedrich von Steuben, Casimir Pulaski"
Ummm -- I don't remember seeing mention of any of them at any of the meetings in Philadelphia. What states were they representing?
Ummm......
Queenie you FAIL to understand the difference between hard work and productivity. So does Obama's translation of Adam Smith's quotation.
A full transcript.
https://www.politico.com/story/2008/06/text-of-obamas-fatherhood-speech-011094
It all seems so dated, like it was from another era.
It’s also racist and homophobic with its promotion of the Western-style nuclear family.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8759959/BLM-removes-page-mentions-disrupting-Western-nuclear-family-website.html
How do think that quotation shows Scalia not relying on textualism?
Sounds very textual to me: He's basically saying it's not the legislators' concerns that are the law, it's the text they enacted.
Uh, what?
von Steuben was openly gay. What's your source for him being female?
Queenie I have seen you post bullshit so deep you would need a submarine to get past it but this is the most asinine thing I have ever seen anyone post at VC. No way either one of them was a woman. Gotta say I have bookmarked this post for posterity's sake and you will get it shoved down your throat more than once in the future.
Casimir Pulaski might have been "intersex", read his wikipedia entry. If so, [its not definite], he also probably had small male genitals so he was not a woman, he just had some birth defects.
von Steuben was certainly a man, perhaps gay. He was a professional soldier for 25 years, it is impossible for him to have hidden a lack of penis and testicles in junior Prussian officer quarters.
One of the first things you are taught in first year high school debate class is the definition of should is 'ought to but not necessarily will'.
Oh no grandparents and aunties and uncles involved in childcare!
This was a failed attempt at a social wedge issue. Heckuva deep cut these days!
"We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable."
To be sure, a Janus-faced statement with its deference to the comfort of parents and children (or "mothers [and] parents"), but why the part about disrupting the nuclear family."
And if it's innocuous why did they remove it instead of protesting it was taken out of context, and making a defense like yours?
Only here could a discussion about Justice Jackson end up talking about General von Steuben's testicles. I love it!