The Volokh Conspiracy
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Muslim Male Inmate Entitled to Religious Exemption from Strip Searches by Female-to-Male Transgender Guard
"[A] prisoner's right to be free from highly invasive intrusions on bodily privacy by prison employees of the opposite sex—whether on religious or privacy grounds—does not change based on a guard's transgender status."
From West v. Radtke, decided Sept. 16 by Chief Judge Diane Sykes joined by Judges Joel Flaum and Michael Brennan (reversing a decision I blogged about here):
Rufus West is confined at Wisconsin's Green Bay Correctional Institution where he must undergo strip searches by prison staff on regular occasions—namely, when he leaves and reenters the prison, during lockdowns, before and after visits from outsiders and certain other movements within the facility, and whenever directed by a prison supervisor. Under prison policy two guards participate in every strip search, one who directly performs it and another who observes to ensure that it is performed properly.
West is a Muslim. Strip searches by prison guards of the opposite sex violate the moral tenets of his faith, which prohibit him from exposing his body to a woman who is not his wife. { According to his Islamic beliefs, he is forbidden to expose his naked body to anyone but his wife. This precept compels him to shield the area between his naval and knees from others, especially from those of the opposite sex. Knowingly violating the nudity prohibition will condemn him in the afterlife, with greater condemnation resulting from cross-sex violations of the taboo.} In July 2016 he was required to submit to a strip search by a guard who is a transgender man—a woman who identifies as a man.
West objected on religious grounds but was refused an accommodation, and the transgender guard participated in the strip search as the observing officer. After this incident, West requested an exemption from future cross-sex strip searches. The warden denied the request and told West that he would be disciplined if he objects again….
West sued under RLUIPA (the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000), through which Congress provided that prisons that receive federal funds "may not 'impose a substantial burden on the religious exercise' of an inmate unless it can prove that doing so 'is the least restrictive means of furthering [a] compelling governmental interest.'" (For more on RLUIPA and its relationship to RFRA and the history of the Free Exercise Clause precedents, see this post.) The court held that West had shown that the prison's actions imposed a substantial burden on his religious exercise:
The challenged practice here is the prison's policy requiring West to submit to cross-sex strip searches in violation of the moral tenets of his Islamic faith. Everyone agrees that West's objection to this practice is both religious in nature and sincere. The dispute at this step of the RLUIPA framework centers on whether the prison's strip-search policy is a substantial burden on West's religious exercise….
"[A] burden on religious exercise … arises when the government 'put[s] substantial pressure on an adherent to modify his behavior and to violate his beliefs.'" In assessing whether a burden is substantial, we "focus[ ] primarily on the intensity of the coercion applied by the government" and not the centrality of the religious practice in question. {We do not mean to suggest that a substantial burden may arise only when a prison threatens an inmate with some negative consequence. A substantial burden might also arise when a prison declines to provide an inmate access to something that will allow him to exercise his religion.} … Although the relevant line—how much pressure is too much—may be difficult to discern with precision, we know from Holt v. Hobbs (2015) that "significant disciplinary consequences" cross it….
[T]he prison argues that West's limited request for an exemption from only cross-sex strip searches undermines his claim because all strip searches—even those by male guards—violate the nudity taboo of his religion. To the extent this is an objection to West's willingness to compromise, the argument fails …. In Holt the prisoner proposed a half-inch beard even though his faith obligations forbade him from trimming his beard at all. The Court nonetheless found a substantial burden on his religious exercise….
At times the prison's argument goes beyond objecting to compromise and begins to imply that West misunderstands what his religion requires. The prison suggests that we can infer that West is not really burdened by cross-sex strip searches because prison life demands that he endure strip searches generally. Put slightly differently, the prison maintains that West shouldn't care who strip-searches him because the religious transgression is equally grave whether his naked body is exposed to a male or a female guard.
As an evidentiary matter, this argument is contrary to the record. At his deposition West explained that although the nudity prohibition applies generally, he "would be punished more harshly if … Officer Buhle strip search[ed] [him] than if … a man strip search[ed] [him]."
The argument also misses the mark as a matter of law. The substantial-burden inquiry does not ask whether West's understanding of his faith obligations is correct. "Courts are not arbiters of scriptural interpretation," so "the test for substantial burden does not ask whether the claimant has correctly interpreted his religious obligations." West's understanding of the Islamic faith draws the line at cross-sex strip searches, and "it is not for us to say that the line he drew was an unreasonable one."
To be clear, courts are authorized to decide—indeed, must decide—whether a request for a faith-based exemption is in fact religious in nature and sincere. These are "factual inquiries within the court's authority and competence" that are "important to weed out sham claims." But there's no dispute about the religiosity or sincerity of West's beliefs. The prison's argument on the substantial-burden question is both factually and legally flawed.
The court then considered whether the burden could be justified by a compelling government interest. The government pointed to its interest in not violating Buhle's rights under Title VII; the Court has held that Title VII's ban on sex discrimination extends to gender identity discrimination. But granting the exemption, the court concluded, wouldn't violate Title VII:
Everyone agrees that complying with Title VII is a compelling governmental interest…. Title VII makes it unlawful to discriminate in "terms, conditions, or privileges of employment" against an individual because of his "race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." … [Title VII forbids the prison's engaging in] an adverse employment action against its transgender employees. Adverse employment actions are "material, sufficiently important alterations of the employment relationship." This means "something more disruptive than a mere inconvenience or an alteration of job responsibilities."
Broadly speaking, three types of employment actions meet the threshold: "(1) termination or reduction in compensation, fringe benefits, or other financial terms of employment; (2) transfers or changes in job duties that cause an employee's skills to atrophy and reduce future career prospects; and (3) unbearable changes in job conditions, such as a hostile work environment or conditions amounting to constructive discharge."
The last category includes severe and pervasive harassment: "mistreatment of an employee by coworkers or supervisors that is sufficiently severe to worsen substantially his conditions of employment as they would be perceived by a reasonable person in the position of the employee."
The prison offers no argument under established Title VII doctrine that exempting West from cross-sex strip searches would inflict an adverse employment action on its transgender employees. There's no suggestion that a change in compensation would result, and such an insignificant change in job duties neither harms the career prospects of transgender employees nor creates a hostile work environment. And it certainly does not amount to a constructive discharge. Simply put, requiring strip searches to be performed by guards of the same sex as the inmate does not materially alter the conditions of employment. The prison does not argue otherwise.
The prison's Title VII argument would fail even if it could show that exempting West from cross-sex strip searches would lead to an adverse employment action. Title VII permits sex-based distinctions in employment where sex "is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of [a] particular business or enterprise."
Generally speaking, the exception is narrow and approves sex-based employment discrimination only where "the essence of the business operation would be undermined by not hiring members of one sex exclusively." The distinctive needs of prisons, however, often allow sex-based adjustments to employment duties. See, e.g., Dothard v. Rawlinson (1977) (order and security in a prison housing particularly violent inmates, including many sex offenders); Everson v. Mich. Dep't of Corr. (6th Cir. 2004) (prison security and inmate safety and privacy); see also Reidt v. County of Trempealeau (7th Cir. 1992) ("Title VII's proscription against sexual discrimination in employment must be balanced against issues of inmate privacy and jail security ….").
Sex is a bona fide occupational qualification for performing strip searches of prisoners with sincere religious objections to cross-sex strip searches. RLUIPA requires a prison to avoid placing a substantial burden on an inmate's religious exercise as long as it can do so without undermining a compelling governmental interest. Here the asserted governmental interest—complying with Title VII—expressly allows sex-based limitations on strip-search duty because the limitation is reasonably necessary to accommodate the bodily-privacy and religious-exercise rights of inmates.
Courts have long recognized that sex is a trait relevant to inmate privacy. "[W]hile all forced observations or inspections of the naked body implicate a privacy concern, it is generally considered a greater invasion to have one's naked body viewed by a member of the opposite sex." Harris v. Miller (2d Cir. 2016) (alteration in original) (quoting Canedy v. Boardman (7th Cir. 1994)); see also Byrd v. Maricopa Cnty. Sheriff's Dep't (9th Cir. 2011) ("The desire to shield one's unclothed figure from [the] view of strangers, and particularly strangers of the opposite sex, is impelled by elementary self-respect and personal dignity." (alteration in original) (quoting York v. Story (9th Cir. 1963))). That "basic fact of human behavior" sometimes allows or even requires sex-based adjustments to prison guard duties. Smith v. Fairman (7th Cir. 1982) (per curiam).
Federal law and the prison's own policy acknowledge the relevance of sex to prison strip searches. The prison already bans "cross-gender" strip searches in accordance with [the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003]. Even so, the prison insists that denying West's requested accommodation is consistent with these rules. It argues that "gender," which is left undefined in the applicable prison policy and federal regulation and guidance, means something other than biological sex.
There are reasons to doubt the prison's interpretation of these authorities. {A Department of Corrections regulation provides that "[e]xcept in emergencies, a person of the same sex as the inmate being searched shall conduct [a] strip search." The undefined term "sex" presumably takes its ordinary meaning that refers to male and female biological traits. The prison's written policy instructs that strip searches "shall be conducted in compliance with" this state regulation. And as explained, the DOJ suggests that "gender" as used in 28 C.F.R. § 115.15(a) should be interpreted with reference to applicable legal authorities such as the state regulation. West does not raise this point, however, and our conclusions do not rest on an interpretation of prison policy or state or federal regulations.} That aside, we have previously [held] that Title VII allows prisons to prohibit cross-sex strip searches for purposes of inmate privacy…. Canedy v. Boardman (7th Cir. 1994)….
The prison also contends that Canedy does not apply because it concerned a male prisoner and female prison guards while this case concerns a male prisoner and a prison guard who is a transgender man. But a prisoner's right to be free from highly invasive intrusions on bodily privacy by prison employees of the opposite sex—whether on religious or privacy grounds—does not change based on a guard's transgender status.
For all these reasons, the prison can accommodate West's request for a religious exemption from cross-sex strip searches without violating Title VII.
Note that the court described Buhle here as a "prison employee[] of the opposite sex," which is to say as a woman for legal purposes. An alternative agreement for West would be that, whatever the prison or the law may understand Buhle's sex to be, for RLUIPA purposes—and for inmate privacy rights purposes more generally—the question must be what West understands Buhle's sex to be, whether or not the secular legal system shares that understanding.
The court offered a largely similar analysis as to the prison's compelling interest in avoiding an Equal Protection Clause violation:
When a sex-based classification is at issue, the burden is on the state to demonstrate that the "classification serves important governmental objectives and that the discriminatory means employed are substantially related to the achievement of those objectives." "Between [the] extremes of rational basis review and strict scrutiny," "[t]his intermediate level of judicial scrutiny recognizes that sex 'has never been rejected as an impermissible classification in all instances.'" Indeed, "[p]hysical differences between men and women … are enduring," and "a community made up exclusively of one [sex] is different from a community composed of both."
The prison's position is immediately in doubt given that Canedy, though not an equal-protection case, endorsed a ban on cross-sex strip searches. Canedy aside, the prison has not developed an argument that exempting West from cross-sex strip searches would fail intermediate scrutiny if challenged on equal-protection grounds. The prison simply asserts that accommodating West would require it to treat its employees differentially based on sex. That's obviously true, but the pertinent question is whether the difference in treatment is unlawful.
A sex-based classification of this type is not unlawful. Accommodating West's request for an exemption from cross-sex strip searches is substantially related to the important governmental objective of respecting the RLUIPA and constitutional-privacy rights of prison inmates. Indeed, the prison already prohibits female guards from strip-searching male prisoners except in exigent circumstances. If that is constitutionally permissible—and it is—so too is West's requested accommodation.
In sum, the prison will not violate any employee's Title VII or equal-protection rights by exempting West from cross-sex strips searches. On remand West is entitled to appropriate injunctive relief….
And the court also held that West stated a Fourth Amendment claim, but remanded for further development of that theory in light of recent Seventh Circuit precedent on strip searches of inmates generally.
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its delusional to believe that a biological treatment will cure a mental illness
All mental illnesses are physical unless you regard the mind as something separate from the brain. Hence it's perfectly plausible to think that a physical treatment will help or cure the illness.
Further, a standard criterion for mental illness is whether the person suffering is to any extent incapacitated or finds it difficult to function due to the condition - e.g, if someone has obsessive compulsive behaviours but has no difficulty managing it iat work or home, etc., it doesn't rise to the level of a disorder.
Whether in the specific case of gender dysphoria, biological treatment reduces or even removes the suffering of the people who have it is a matter for research and evidence, not dogmatism.
If after surgery someone who had gender dysphoria finds themselves to be much happier and content and leads a pretty normal life and doesn't feel the need to see a shrink regularly, etc., then one can judge that biological treatment was effective.
The research and evidence is in. It says people can't change their sex/gender.
If you want to chop off your penis or just wear a dress, I say knock yourself out. But stop asking other people to pay for that. Doctors who cut off healthy penises are violating the Hippocratic Oath. Some might say, if you cut off your own healthy hand or foot or penis, you should be committed to a mental institution because you pose a danger to yourself.
The research and evidence is also in that countless people deeply regret irreversible puberty blocking, hormonal treatments, and surgical mutilations.
Mutilating healthy, functioning bodily organs is harmful ipso facto, at least if you don't regard the mind as something separate from the body.
Reinforcing a delusion/lie should not be considered "treatment." It is not kind.
Children cannot morally consent to irreversible puberty blocking or "gender surgeries" and subjecting them to this should be illegal.
As far as mental illness generally, it can and should be treated partly with "biological treatments" (a very broad term) in various instances.
I often wonder how those encouraging transgender mutilation can square that with previously hating female genital mutilation or protesting Jewish circumcision. But consistency has never been their strong suit.
Obviously QA has a useless reply.
re: "Mutilating healthy, functioning bodily organs is harmful ipso facto"
While that statement sounds like an appealing absolute, dial it back to edge cases and see if you still agree. That statement forbids tattooing, ear piercings, ritual scarification, vasectomies, stomach stapling, most plastic surgery and a host of other voluntary body modifications and medical procedures.
I think you are on stronger ground with the claim that children cannot legally consent (and that parents should not in their name) but the claim that all body modification of a consenting adult is by definition evidence of mental illness is a step too far.
"but the claim that all body modification of a consenting adult is by definition evidence of mental illness is a step too far."
Fair comment but I didn't go that far.
I said that mutilating healthy, functioning bodily organs is harmful, ipso facto. This is superficially true. So is smoking cigarettes or eating unhealthy foods. You may decide there are countervailing benefits for yourself, like enjoying a nicotine buzz or displaying tattoos or preventing sperm from getting through the vas deferens.
I also said that some might say that cutting off a healthy hand, foot, or penis should get you committed. Seems like a reasonable argument though I came down on the side of, knock yourself out.
" Reinforcing a delusion/lie should not be considered “treatment.” It is not kind. "
Not a fan of organized religion or those who appease the gullible, superstitious, ignorant, and delusional?
You mean like the Muslim inmate under discussion here?
'countless people'
Less than 1%.
lol wtf dudes with neovaginas have to spend hours a day dilating or the wound will close.
And have you ever seen any of the man-made horrors that are a neo-penis?
Good lord, if it wasn't so sad it would be funny. Well, actually it is kinda funny. lol
Also funny: Conservatives spending the rest of their lives losing the culture war and complying with the preferences of better Americans. It's funny because anything that afflicts bigots is worth a laugh or two.
Its delusional to think you're the supreme authority on the correct treatment for certain conditions.
If I'm following, this would mean that a prison could lawfully mete out assignments by race or religion. That seems like a fairly remarkable position.
If I’m following, this would mean that a prison could lawfully mete out assignments by race or religion.
I don't see how anything that broadly generalized follows from the text you quoted, which is pretty specifically in regard to potential impact on a single employee of a single exceedingly minor change in that employees duties, and even that only as it pertains to the prison's Title VII argument.
What do you see as relying on the fact that only a single employee is involved? If anything the plural would suggest the opposite, it seems to me.
How many transgender prison guards do you think there are?
What do you see as relying on the fact that only a single employee is involved? If anything the plural would suggest the opposite, it seems to me.
See Nieporent’s response, as well as the fact that only a single employee was involved in the action.
Now, do you have any response regarding the rest of the points in my post (which were the points made by the court) that you seem to have ignored?
re: "this would mean that a prison could lawfully mete out assignments by race or religion"
Well, they can. And always have been able to. You cannot, for example, demand to be assigned the job of Prison Chaplain if you are an atheist. Nor could the prison compel a condemned man to accept Last Rites from a Satanist Chaplain if a Chaplain of the prisoner's preferred religion is available. The circumstances where such an exception applies will be relatively rare but they clearly exist.
I can't come up with a counter-example about race but only because there are no longer any clear examples of sincerely held religious beliefs about race. On the other hand, sincerely held religious beliefs about sex are routine.
White supremacist prison gangs frequently require members to adopt a sort of neo-pagan/Norse religious creed with explicitly racist elements: while some of this is clearly transactional (e.g. to allow gang meetings in the guise of religious services) at least some adherents seem to sincerely believe it.
But that's all beside the point: this passage jumped out at me because it's expressly not about a religious accommodation: it's saying that not letting this guard search certain inmates isn't a Title VII violation at all. So why wouldn't it be equally permissible to, say, not let black inmates be searched by white guards?
Would it change the "terms, conditions, or privileges of employment"? Would it result in "an adverse employment action"? Would it lead to a "material, sufficiently important alteration[] of the employment relationship"? Would it result in any of "(1) termination or reduction in compensation, fringe benefits, or other financial terms of employment; (2) transfers or changes in job duties that cause an employee's skills to atrophy and reduce future career prospects; and (3) unbearable changes in job conditions, such as a hostile work environment or conditions amounting to constructive discharge"?
Or would that be more like "a mere inconvenience or an alteration of job responsibilities"? If so, then the court would be right - not letting this guard search certain inmates isn’t a Title VII violation at all.
This is getting beyond absurd. The left has pushed way tooooo farrrr this time and I don't know how we get out of it without a giant mess.
Is it war, Jimmy?
War?
Fifty years of culture war has been almost enough but not quite. The battle at the American marketplace of ideas has been settled.
Clingers hardest hit.
They get to rant and whine about it as much as they like, but they have lost and are losers. The principal outstanding question is how magnanimous the liberal-libertarian mainstream will (or should) be in victory.
S_0,
Stop "kicking the dog." It is simply trolling
This entire blog is nothing but a trolling expedition.
Don't mistake the collection of misfits it counts as fans as an indication that the Volokh Conspiracy reflects mainstream thinking in modern America. These guys are just nipping at the ankles of their betters (and aggravating their deans), getting in an occasional 'own the libs' jab while their side continues to (1) get stomped by better Americans in the culture war and (2) watch America become less rural, less religious, less bigoted, less backward, and less White every single day.
So why participate, instead of boycotting? You’re confused about who the troll is, I can only presume you have no mirrors where you live.
You must also be against freedom of speech, even speech you disagree with, to be voicing such objections? What business of yours is it what others choose to say? I don't agree with your premise, but will remind you that even bigoted speech is protected by the First Amendment. As is "superstitious" religion.
Who said anything about war? You aren't very good at this and have to constantly resort to strawmen or gaslighting.
It's a good thing Jimmy will be dead in 30, 40, or 50+ years.
He wouldn't like the future.
Sounds like a really convoluted game of Twister trying to avoid the freaking obvious – that a transman guard is not actually male, and no amount of civil rights protections or even granting full legal recognition as a male is going to actually change the person’s biology.
This quote is interesting: “Courts have long recognized that sex is a trait relevant to inmate privacy.”
So why is it relevant to inmates, but not to school students?
They're fleshing out the oppression heirarchy. Apparently, Moslems are higher up on the totem pole.
"So why is it relevant to inmates, but not to school students?"
Great question. It could be that children are lower level political pawns than Muslims, or that children are impressionable and therefore more suited as subjects for social experimentation, indoctrination, and Mengelian pursuits, or that children are vulnerable and therefore good targets for the sexually predatory. Depends on which faction of the left you are talking to.
'Depends on which faction of the left you are..'
..making shit up about.
In 2005 I was a pretrial detainee in an Indiana jail. Case later dismissed and expunged; I had been falsely accused. Strip searches by the opposite sex were routine. I do not know if this is still the practice. I noted at the time that it was likely an unlawful practice, if not in the top 10 of the unlawful practices I was subjected to. A number of the inmates were practicing muslims. I remain somewhat unclear of what the 7th circuit is saying about strip searches generally. My question is how would one go about asking for a change in this policy? Do I write to the warden, the sheriff, the mayor, the prosecutor?
Teach this stubborn prisoner a lesson - assign him to the prison kitchen and order him to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding ceremony.
I don't think prisoners should have any say in who strip searches them. But if they get to pick the gender, then yes, this is right.
Its like a live version of the internet meme with a sweating man faced with two conflicting buttons to press.
It’s almost as though your reductive strawman is a strawman, and progressives can have all sort of opinions on stuff for all sorts of reasons!
That question has an answer. Feminists up through the mid 1990s railed against Muslim culture, hijab and other clothing requirements falling under the general observation that, the more clothing women had to wear, the more oppressive the society.
Then someone decided to change the memes injected into the top of the progressive echo chamber, and butter up Muslim men for votes. Nothing changed in those countries, but feminists were ordered to stop working to free their sisters, under pain of cancellation.
Trump comes along a decade later and makes the situation worse. It's all an idiotic domestic political fight. Nobody stands up for massive oppression overseas because it doesn't meet with domestic marching orders by the power seekers here.
It would require thought, reflection, sensitivity... not much chance of that here...
"punch dow "
English please.
Don't forget his COVID expertise.
Bob,
Don't expect a comment useful to your understanding from that quarter
Hear, hear!
Imagine a laughable feminist confronted by the Christian leader saying, "Women need to cover up so as to not tempt men and honor them. Women should do this voluntarily and feel proud they do."
"Sure! It's about freedom to be controlled by societal expectations! Nothing to rail against or fight against here!"
You think it's a consistent progressive belief for transes to not be real authentic versions of what they believe to be for strip searches in prisons, but not strip searches in schools.
I don't.
What about similar accommodations for locker rooms, bathrooms, showers, and government school strip searches?
The sex/gender distinction is malarkey, designed to confuse and mislead.
It may be valid to have a word for referring to "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex" but it's not valid to take existing words that refer to sex (gender, male, female) and try to change their definitions to mean something else.
Your link defines "gender" as "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex." So basically it is a synonym for "stereotypes" with respect to sex. So we already have a word.
E.g. "My daughter likes to hunt and fish and ride dirtbikes. She's a tomboy." That's how normal people talk.
Now, accepting arguendo your definition of gender, is it possible to change your gender? Is it possible to change the stereotypes that you exhibit? I'd say yes, at least to some extent, it is possible to change your "behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits."
But that is trivially true. It doesn't mean you've changed your sex, i.e., your status as male or female.
You might disagree. You might say that at least some people are born with certain "behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex" that can't easily be changed, and for at least some people those traits are the ones typically associated with the opposite sex. OK. So you're saying it is not possible to change your gender in that case, then? You just have some traits that are typically associated with the opposite sex. That's pretty common, welcome to the club. In fact, maybe it hardly matters what is "typically associated" with a certain sex, i.e. what stereotypes exist.
To be clear, this is not to minimize that there are individuals who suffer from something like gender dysphoria and who may need help and treatment.
For a start I would say strip searches at schools are evil bullshit.
The Center for Gender Surgery at Boston Children's Hospital offers gender affirmation surgery services to eligible adolescents and young adults who are ready to take this step in their journey. It is the first center of its kind in the U.S. in a major pediatric hospital setting.
https://www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-surgery-program
Patients only 17 years old can obtain a vaginoplasty, but Dr. Oren Ganor, co-director of Boston Children’s Center for Gender Surgery, hinted in an email that children even younger can be operated on. Ganor said in an email to WBUR that he is "slightly flexible" when it comes to the age of males seeking genital surgery. Ganor adds that the policy has not been finalized "because of the issue around consent for sterilization (which is part of the procedure).”
Dr. Jaromir Slama, a plastic surgeon at Boston Medical Center, describes the vaginoplasty procedure: "It involves orchiectomy, removing the testicles, and we use the skin tube of the penis and some of the skin of the perineum to pretty much turn it outside in and that becomes the new vagina."
Boston Children’s Hospital accepts teens as young as 15 years old seeking chest surgeries, such as double mastectomies for female patients and breast augmentation for male patients.
All of these "gender affirming" surgeries are covered through commercial insurers and the state's Medicaid program in Massachusetts.
https://thepostmillennial.com/boston-childrens-hospital-gleefully-encourages-surgical-pharmaceutical-gender-transition-for-teens/
See also, Boston Children’s Hospital Deletes Website Info Saying 17-Year-Olds Are Eligible for Vaginal Construction Surgery, National Review.
Cross-sex strip searches by transes?
Why then are transes demanding they change their sex classifications on passports and driver's licenses if all they are changing is their cultural stereotype?
"Why or why not?" I already answered this question. The redefinition of gender is propaganda designed to mislead and serves no other purpose. It is also being imposed top down, nothing like organic evolution of language. But I'm happy to use whatever definitions for the sake of argument.
"You’re not born with cultural stereotypes, they’re assigned to you."
Some might argue that you are born with certain behavioral or psychological traits that are stereotyped as being associated with a certain sex.
"And *if that’s the definition of gender* then when you are relatively free to change them and do you have indeed changed your gender."
As I already said, that's true. I agree. But it's trivial. It also shows why this definition of gender is silly. If my daughter decides she likes wearing boys clothes and riding dirtbikes, she's now a boy? Or, has changed her gender? No. No she hasn't. It's also a bit sexist to take stereotypes and absolutize them like that.
Yet they offer other forms of so-called "gender affirmation surgery" to children as young as 15. And irreversible puberty blocking even younger than that. Your thoughts?
No. I made a distinction between things that are ipso facto harmful to your body but may have countervailing benefits, and other things where the magnitude of harm is greater and bereft of any benefit.
What would you say about someone that took a butcher knife and chopped off their hand? Or gouged out their eye with a screw driver?
Not remotely.
Are you going to answer my question or not? Do you agree with these things?
Excuse me, I never said otherwise.
Maybe you're confusing me with Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf - his comment could be read as implying that. But you are still relying on a sleight of hand in conflating the different forms of "gender surgery" to pretend you have any argument. I've been crystal clear all along. Sad when you are to the point of accusing me of ignoring the very thing I just told you and took care to copy and paste and link for you here.
Puberty blockers are not irreversible, and are used widely for young people who are not trans, as are assorted surgical procedures for changing the shape and appearance of their bodies, far more so than the number of trans kids who undergo similar procedures.
That is not clear. That was the talking point for some time, but it has been walked back in recent years. The long term effects of taking them are not established.
'Long term effects' is not the same as 'irreversible.'
QA 's & Jason's comment just demonstrates how far your knowledge of science and biology has deviated from reality.
You do not need a "father" when there is the welfare state or the state can bilk monetary support from men under threat of imprisonment and violence.
You also do not need a "father" if boys are denied the chance to become men by being either chemically castrated, physically deformed, or just programmed by evil manipulators.
This is all by design.
A short time ago, people generally weren't upset by people dressing up as or trying to pass as the opposite sex. It was fine and sometimes funny or maybe sad. Then, leftists began doing things like passing a law that you are required to allow men into women's changing rooms, and generally creating legal, social, and institutional pressure to profess and assent to absurdities.
In the words of Voltaire, "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."
The father and mother comparison is only slightly interesting. There are two main differences. First, this meaning of father and mother denotes a relational status. One is father or mother to someone, not in and of oneself. Second, this meaning, distinct from the biological heredity meaning, is as old as history
Adopted children have been around since the dawn of history. It's not a new thing.
Biology is not "destiny", but it is reality. And when people substitute ideology for biology, it has always led to tragic consequences.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/blurred-lines-pregnant-mans-tragedy-tests-gender-notions-63062856
You sound like you're ready to join the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers, Jimmy the Dane.
Why not? You might enjoy prison. Plenty of structure and tradition, weightlifting, lots of manly men . . .
Reflection on mother: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK7dGXYyKLs
You got it backwards. The right decided to make a federal case, as it were, about excluding them from spaces they had always used.
Attack the man - because you lack the knowledge of the subject matter
Try to point out any statement that I have made that is incorrect
I love and agree with your premise. That judges rule based upon partisan ideology alone, GOP and Democrats.
The justice system is 3rd world shit.
So what was all your garbage about gender?
wtf are you talking about?
Yet again the leftists here still have to dodge the point I made. That is telling.....
"I think it depends on what makes it easier or authentic for your kid in their judgment"
But this is not correct. A child cannot decide that they are a boy when they are really a girl, or vice versa, any more than they can decide that they are a horse or some other species.
You're so full of shit that you can't be bothered to admit "I'm not an expert on everything, and I've been wrong before?"
Instead you want someone to scroll through google results looking for statements you've made, pretending that they will find *nothing* that you've been wrong about, ever?
Let me show you how easy this should've been, Mr. I Hide Behind a Pseudonym and Still Can't Admit Fault Anonymously.
I'm not an expert on everything. I'm actually an 'expert' on very few things. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again, and I say that under my actual name, because I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know everything.
I'm also not delusional enough to argue otherwise.
You have some serious work to do with a therapist if you're unable to acknowledge the same for yourself and your opinions.
They do not 'decide.' They have the recognised condition of gender dysphoria. Equine dysphoria is much rarer.
I'm glad you agree with me. QA said it is up to the kids judgment.
Better send them a bomb threat for treating young people with a recognised medical condition, so.
What?
My comments on covid have been pretty spot on
Yes several of my comments have conflicted with the CDC including multiple “peer reviewed” studies, though each of my comments have subsequently been proven to be correct. Unfortunately, several commentators (nige, Queen David, & yourself )have such a poor grasp of basic science and basic logic, which renders them unable to ascertain the reasonableness of a studies conclusions.
Now the point of this thread is whether a transgender person is suffering a mental illness and can be cured by mutilating their body. The obvious answer is no
Does it really take an expert to grasp that concept. or are you one of those that believe the current fad in mental health treatment is valid
The right decided to make a federal case, as it were, about excluding them from spaces they had always used.