The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Law, Justice, and the Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Neither side is ideal. But both law and justice are far more on Ukraine's side than Vladimir Putin's.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has sent additional troops into areas of eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists, and may well be starting a large-scale invasion of the rest of the country. The conflict between Russia and Ukraine has its share of complexities. But the bottom line is clear: while neither government is a paragon of virtue, Putin's regime is overwhelmingly in the wrong, from the standpoint of both law and justice.
The law is simple. There are few, if any, more fundamental violations of international law than seizing other nations' territory by force for the purpose of annexing it or ruling through a puppet regime. The United Nations Charter specifically forbids "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State." That description fits Russia's assault on Ukraine to a T.
The charge of waging wars of aggression was also one of the main accusations brought against the Nazi defendants in the Nuremberg trials; the Nuremberg tribunal ruled that starting a war of aggression is "the supreme international crime." Putin's rationales for seizing Crimea in 2014 and later the Donbass region of Eastern Ukraine are very similar to those Hitler offered for his attacks on Poland and Czechoslovakia: the supposed need to protect co-ethnic populations facing largely trumped-up threats (ethnic German minorities in Poland and the Sudetenland in Hitler's case; Russian-speaking populations in Ukraine in Putin's case).
It's important to recognize that Putin isn't just now breaking this vital international law. He already did it twice. First, when he sent troops to seize Crimea in 2014, and then again when he used his forces to back the occupation of the Donbass region by separatist forces. In the case of the Donbass, Russia claimed - until recently - that their forces were not involved. But this claim was obviously false, as even a Russian judicial ruling admitted in a careless moment. Russian forces have obviously taken part in the fighting that has killed some 14,000 people since 2014. Without Russian backing, the separatist forces would long since have been crushed, and probably would never have seized so much territory to begin with. And, over the last few days, Russia has moved its forces into the Donbass openly.
If Putin now tries to take more of Ukraine, it will just be an expansion of his government's already grossly illegal aggression. The best historical analogy would be Hitler's shift from taking the Sudetenland (the part of Czechoslovakia with a large German population) in 1938 to occupying all of Czechoslovakia in 1939.
So much for the legal issue. Still, illegal activity might sometimes be defensible if it promotes justice and human rights. Sometimes, it is right to disobey the law, especially if doing so promotes justice and protects human rights.
In this case, however, Russia's aggression has had the exact opposite effect. Far from protecting human rights, it has done the reverse: replacing a flawed but relatively liberal government, with a vastly more oppressive authoritarian regime. In Crimea, the first territory seized by Putin's forces, the introduction of Russian rule has led to massive human rights violations, including persecution of dissent, and repression of the Crimean Tatar minority (which has a long history of previous victimization by both czarist and Soviet Russian rulers).
As for the claim that Russia's seizure of Crimea was justified by the referendum held there under the control of Russian forces, that referendum was a blatant travesty compromised by fraud and coercion, as determined by a May 2014 investigation undertaken by the Russian government's own Presidential Council on Civil Society and Human Rights (then still one of the few Russian government agencies with a modicum of independence from the Kremlin). For reasons I described here, even an honest and fair majority vote would not be enough to justify rule by a regime as oppressive as Putin's. But, regardless, there was no such fair vote in Crimea.
The story is much the same in the Donbass. There too, Russian rule has resulted in large-scale repression and human rights violations. And it is worth noting that available survey data suggests that most of the region's people oppose Russian rule, which is one reason why it has only been possible to maintain by force.
Amnesty International - an organization that, too put it mildly, isn't known for favoritism towards the US and its allies - recently summarized the human rights situation in Crimea and the Donbass:
Territories in eastern Ukraine controlled by Russia-backed separatists remained beyond the reach of many civil society and humanitarian actors. Suppression of all forms of dissent persisted, including through arrest, interrogation and torture and other ill-treatment by the de facto authorities, and imprisonment in often inhumane conditions….
A severe crackdown on human rights work and all dissent continued [in Crimea], as did restrictions on the media…..
The occupying Russian authorities continued to target human rights defenders, including members of Crimean Solidarity, a grassroots self-help group of ethnic Crimean Tatars. Dozens of its members faced politically motivated criminal proceedings, mostly on allegations of purported membership of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, an Islamist movement banned as "terrorist" in Russia but legal in Ukraine. Arbitrary intrusive house searches, unofficial interrogation by Russian security forces, and intimidation were also widely used as reprisals against ethnic Crimean Tatars.
Amnesty's report also outlines numerous flaws and injustices in areas under Ukrainian rule, as well. Nonetheless, it concludes that "[m]edia remained pluralistic and largely free, although harassment of outlets in connection with their editorial policies, and intimidation and violence against journalists, were regularly reported." That's a sharp contrast with Russian-occupied Ukraine, and indeed with Russia itself.
Unlike Russia, Ukraine also has free elections, and opposition political parties and media operate freely. The opposition prevailed in the 2019 elections, and defeated President Petro Poroshenko accepted the result and ceded power to the winning candidate (current Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky) - a scenario which is almost unimaginable in Putin's Russia. Ukraine's treatment of ethnic and religious minorities, while far from ideal, is also far superior to Russia, with its repression of "foreign" churches. Although homophobia is far from unknown in Ukraine, it has nothing comparable to the Russian government's large-scale persecution of gays and lesbians.
The Ukrainian government is far from ideal. It has its own violations of liberal democratic norms, and the legal system and government bureaucracy suffer from massive corruption (as is true in Russia, as well). But, despite its very real flaws, Ukrainian rule is vastly preferable, on any plausible moral grounds, to Putin's.
In sum, Russian rule in occupied Ukraine has been authoritarian and brutally oppressive. That should not be surprising, since much the same is true in Russia itself. Should Putin's forces occupy more of Ukraine, we can expect similar repressive policies to be instituted in whatever new territories are taken.
Putin's claims that his assaults on Ukraine are justified by the supposed threat posed to Russia by NATO expansion are just as specious as his other rationales for aggression. In reality, there is no real prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, because several key NATO allies have consistently opposed it. More generally, NATO expansion has never been a meaningful threat to Russia, because it was coupled with a major drawdown of US and allied forces in Europe in the post-Cold War era. If the NATO powers genuinely sought to threaten Russia, they would have been building up their forces in the region, not scaling them back. The only "threat" NATO poses is to Russia's ability to attack its neighbors. There is not and has never been any prospect of NATO launching a war of aggression against Russia itself.
Ironically, Ukrainian interest in joining NATO is actually the result of Russian attacks rather than the cause. Before Russia's attacks in 2014, only a relatively small minority of Ukrainians wanted to become part of NATO (with 30% or fewer supported joining the alliance). Support has gradually arisen since then (becoming a majority stance in 2021), largely because of Russia's ongoing aggression.
Putin's real motive is likely a combination of fear of the example effect of contiguous liberal democracies in nations culturally similar to Russia, and his desire to rebuild the Russian Empire and undermine Western liberalism. Regardless, there is no justification for Russia's attacks on Ukraine from 2014 to the present, and still less for the massive escalation of them that may be occurring now.
I have deliberately avoided the obvious argument that Putin's aggression is unjust because the Ukrainians are a distinct "people" with a right to autonomy based on ethnic self-determination. That isn't because I buy Putin's ridiculous claims that Russians and Ukrainians are essentially the same, and therefore must be united. It's because I reject, on principle, the theory that groups have a right to rule particular territories based on ties of race, ethnicity, or culture. I outlined the reasons why in Chapter 5 of my book Free to Move: Foot Voting, Migration, and Political Freedom (see also this article). But if you hold a more conventional view of the right to ethnic self-determination, then Ukrainians have as good a claim to it as anyone.
None of this, by itself, determines how the US and its allies should react to Russia's actions. While there are good reasons to avoid direct military conflict with Russia, that still leaves a wide range of other options. I will not try to consider their relative merits here. In this post, I have sought only to assess the legal and moral aspects of the horrible conflict unfolding before us.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
All Russia asks is that we promise not to invade Ukraine with NATO troops. If it is really true that NATO is not going to admit Ukraine anyway, then why don't we say so? If not, then the US and NATO appear to be the aggressors.
"NATO and the US aren't promising not to invade Ukraine. Therefore, they appear to be the aggressors. We have no choice but to invade!" -- Russia
^ This is your BS logic.
You're a Russian disinformation troll, right? You have to be to say something so patently stupid.
Even if the US (and other NATO countries) offered Ukraine membership in NATO, how would that make them aggressors? Voluntary association is not aggressive.
And no such offer has been made. So even if an offer to join NATO was aggression, it hasn't even happened.
Marching troops into Ukraine is the only act of aggression here.
I would note that Russia promised to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia is not just the only aggressor here, they've also broken their own promise.
Ukraine joining NATO is not a voluntary association. It would be the USA (and Europe) promising to defend Ukraine. Ukraine is not a real country, and was not independent when that UN Charter was written.
Ukraine is a very real country: it's there, it's government is there, it's people are there, it's long been recognized by every other country. It was not 'there' in 'that UN Charter' because the USSR conquered it at the time. Go jump in the Don, comrade.
Russian troll confirmed. 'Ukraine is not a real country'. LOL.
He confirmed THAT with his very first comment.
Ha ha --- It was your hero, Stalin, who insisted that Ukraine and, I believe, Belorus, be admitted to the United Nations as distinct nations rather than as states within the USSR.
At the same time that we had the Philippine Commonwealth and India included as charter members of the UN, at a time when they were still controlled by the US and the UK, respectively.
We had promised independence to the Philippines, but if Churchill had had his way, who knows how long India would have remained under British rule?
It was an independent country after 90% voted to become independent and Russia agreed in 89. They were an independent country when Russia and the US agreed to guarantee Ukraine's security in the Budapest accords in return for Ukraine giving up it's nuclear weapons, when they had the 3rd largest arsenal on the planet.
But they fucked up, they trusted us.
The way the Russians trusted our gentleman's agreement not to expand NATO eastward.
Notice how you contrast an actual treaty with a vague "gentleman's agreement."
Nice how you suggest it's OK for the US to say, in effect, "Doesn't count. Our fingers were crossed."
Treaties ratified by the US Senate mean something.
Promises by a POTUS? Not so much.
You understand that a president has no legal or moral authority to bind future presidents to agreements with foreign countries, right? You further understand that foreign leaders, not having fallen off the turnip truck yesterday, know this, right? And that they know that if they want an actual long term commitment, they need to put it into a treaty?
You further understand that even setting aside this basic principle of how U.S. law works, they know the difference between vague verbal statements and formal written agreements, right? That's why the Budapest Memorandum is in fact a Memorandum and not a Budapest Handwavy Conversation.
For many years, the promise we made to the Soviet Union not to invade Cuba, and which induced them to remove their missiles from Cuba, was only a gentleman's agreement. (I believe Nixon put it into a formal agreement at some point during his presidency.) Do you think it would have been OK for the United States, once the missiles were safely on the other side of the Atlantic, to have launched an invasion of Cuba? After all, hadn't made a formal agreement not to.
I don't think it would have been OK to have launched an invasion of Cuba because it's not OK to simply launch invasions of foreign countries whether or not we've promised the USSR that we wouldn't.
David, are you a lawyer? STFU. Nothing you say has the slightest validity. Nevertheless, you bring up a good idea. Use the invasion of Ukraine as a justification to retake Cuba, and Venezuela. Decapitate their oligarchs and take back the $4.5 billion of Maduro's sister. Then have Democrats run new elections in those countries.
You mean they trusted Russia, right?
The US has not violated the Budapest Accord as far as I know. We promised not to violate Ukraine's territorial integrity, and we haven't. We didn't promise to come to their defense.
Russia also made that promise, and has obviously broken it (twice now).
No, it doesn't fall under the technical definition of "aggression." But that doesn't mean that all voluntary association is benign. Or would you have been OK if the Warsaw Pact, instead of dissolving at the end of the Cold War, had expanded to include Cuba and Mexico?
If members of the Warsaw Pact had been so interested in joint cooperation, and Mexico and Cuba had felt such cooperation necessary, i don't see the problem.
Mexico was never going to join it, however. It doesn't fear the US marching across its border.
Russia should be asking itself why its neighbors are looking for defensive associations to join, not demanding those defensive associations refuse to consider such members.
No reason for Russia to ask, they know quite well why their neighbors are looking for defensive associations to join, and object to it because they're defensive.
NATO is defensive? Tell that to the Kosovars...
Does the Trump GOP even pretend to claim Reagan anymore? Or have they come right out and openly thrown Ronnie on the trash heap with all the other globalist elite wokesters who side with liberal democracies over repressive kleptocratic autocracies?
Reagan was against Communism. But the Soviet Union was dissolved 30 years ago. Russia does not need to be an enemy anymore.
Right you are, for once; Russia does not need to make itself the world's enemy. But it has chosen to do so.
If you think Reagan would share your sympathy for Putin's Russia over democratic Ukraine... let's just say I don't believe you believe that.
Both Russia and the Ukraine are democracies. Neither is a model of good government.
Ukraine is a democracy. Not perfect, but a democracy.
Russia is a dictatorship that cosplays as a democracy because it thinks no one can tell the difference.
Since today is apparently Obscene Fall Equivalence Day, why not throw Cuba, Venezuela and Iran into the mix? They have elections too.
Frigging autocorrect. Obscene False Equivalence Day, obvs.
"The 1980s called. They want their foreign policy back."
That would have been a valid criticism before Trump flipped sides, taking the GOP base with him.
It was one of the most arrogant and idiotic things that idiot said. Crimea happened in 2014, were you living under a rock then?
Your logic is as clumsy as the various Communist Parties around the world which switched instantly from condemning Hitler to praising him after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of August 22 1939; then instantly switched to condemning Hitler after the German invasion of the USSR on June 22, 1941.
"All Russia asks is that we promise not to invade Ukraine with NATO troops."
While they take it over, piece by piece. All they ask is that we promise not to defend it.
This post is awarded a "10" by the East German judges...
As Mel Brooks once wrote describing Putin's spiritual predecessor, "All I want is peace. Peace! Peace! A little piece of Poland, a little piece of France."
"All Russia asks is that we promise not to invade Ukraine with NATO troops. If it is really true that NATO is not going to admit Ukraine anyway, then why don't we say so? If not, then the US and NATO appear to be the aggressors."
This blog attracts a remarkable concentration of seriously fucked-up people.
Hey, Roger. No appeasement of Hitler, Jr. End all sovereign immunities. My shares dropped from the invasion of Ukraine, and from the rise in oil prices. I should able to sue Putin personally for the damage, and to reach his personal assets for his intentional tort per se.
War doctrine should change from mass killings of peasants and working people who just want to go home. It should focus on the killing of the oligarchs behind the national leaders making these decisions. For example, kill the Texas oil people that had their boy, Bush attack the Takrit oil billionaires, in the Iraq War. That pretext, nuclear weapons in Iraq, was even flimsier than Putin's that there are Nazis in Ukraine. Kill the responsible oligarchs and their entire families, down to the last kitten. To deter.
War….what is it good for…absolutely nothing.
So goes the lyric. In reality, it takes 2 sides to make peace and only 1 side to make war. Russia has valid security interests, but they must be forced to recognize that there are limits to the ways they are allowed to protect or promote those interests.
Russia has valid security interests in the sense that, like every country (and every individual, for that matter), it is valid for them to want to be safe.
What it does not have is valid security concerns, though. Neither Ukraine nor NATO posed any threat to Russia.
And they knew it. The claim about NATO was just propaganda. What Russia wants — as Russian propagandist Roger S illustrates above — is the elimination of Ukraine.
Nah, Russia has valid security concerns, too. Not to its West, however. On it's Southern border.
Mongolia?
"invade Ukraine with NATO troops"???
That's a very weird way of framing of what would only be Ukraine inviting NATO troops to be stationed there.
"If it is really true that NATO is not going to admit Ukraine anyway, then why don't we say so? If not, then the US and NATO appear to be the aggressors."
Russia didn't honour their last promise not to invade Ukraine, why would they honour this one?
Honestly, you smell more like the b-team from one of Russia's troll factories.
As WWII was coming to a close, Stalin was demanding a sphere of influence over neearby nations. Churchill was fine with it, and had a paper drawn up agreeing to stuff like 10% influence here, 50% there, 90% somewhere else.
FDR was like hell no. Nations need not kneel for permission to another to decide their treaties.
On paper, thus so, but troops on the ground made it otherswise.
Still, it is a goal to strive for, and not cower, quivering and fearful and hoping appeasement will finally work.
"You're a Russian disinformation troll, right?"
Confirmed...note how "Roger S" has a URL embedded in his user name (something, by the way, a decent commenting engine has no reason to allow).
I wouldn't recommend clicking on it. If you must, don't click on any link inside of wherever it sends you.
An embedded URL coupled with the comment content?
This blog attracts a striking concentration of seriously strange, disaffected, antisocial people. The fascinating part is that this appears to be desired by the proprietor(s).
While I would like to believe he is on the long, slow, losing side of a "culture war", it's obvious real war isn't history quite yet.
Then why doesn't Russia agree to mutual arms control treaties that would limit deployments in Ukraine of offensive NATO arms? With intrusive inspections to verify compliance. Wouldn't that address Russia's concerns, even without a permanent ban on NATO membership for Ukraine?
It's a big humorous that you feel that the law has anything to do with this conflict ... or, frankly, any of the significant conflicts in the world right now (including the near coup d'état in Canada).
Speaking of Canada, Moscow officials arrested protesters yesterday, taking their signs, and telling them they would have records hindering them for the rest of their lives.
Canada is nothing to brag about.
I agree with just about everything you said, but you forgot the most important part: everyone in Russia, the Ukraine, Crimea, and Donbass should be free to vote with their feet and come to the US.
Yes, because the only way to combat ignoring the sanctity of Ukraine's borders is to forfeit the sanctity of our borders. That makes sense.
Decisions to admit refugees by a country do not forfeit the sanctity of the country's borders. That sanctity, whatever the word means in this context, is not violated by a conscious, willing decision to allow people to cross them.
No. We are not free if our leaders force refugees to live with us. I want our govt to maintain the territorial integrity of the USA, not Ukraine.
1) He was being sarcastic, mocking Prof. Somin's libertarianism.
2) If we let them in, it does not in any way forfeit the sanctity of our borders.
The only reason countries like Ukraine, Poland, Czechia, the Baltic Republics, etc, want to join NATO is because they've been invaded before by Russian or Soviet troops and they don't want it to happen again.
In just 2016, Russian agents in Montenegro plotted a coup attempt with local sympathizers to keep Montenegro out of NATO. Montenegro did join NATO in 2017.
Was that NATO aggression too?
Yes, expanding NATO to Montenegro was an aggressive act, and an unnecessary one.
My dear Vladimir is my "BFF," and lover, so please don't say mean things about him. When you do so, it makes me very sad to the point of crying. Vlad is actually a Y-U-G-E-L-Y kind and compassionate human being with great sensitivity who believes in, and supports, true democracy and capitalism. Don't believe the FAKE NEWS media that lies and portrays him as an autocratic, murderous, "Communist-lite" dictator! Oh, and by the way, check out my new social media platform "Truth Social," the greatest ever created!
...seems odd that Trump did virtually nothing Putin wanted while Biden has done virtually everything he DOES want.
Ain't that weird?
Perhaps the Russians are just voting with their feet.
It is curious that Putin would strike now (and 2014), rather than when the man this country's intelligentsia told us was Putin's stooge was occupying the White House for four years. They'll never admit what everybody knows: if Trump were in the White House, Putin would not have dared try this.
But if you're going to start WW3, there's no better time than when an 80-year-old Alzheimer's patient is "the leader of the free world."
"if Trump were in the White House, Putin would not have dared try this."
Yeah, he might have retaliated by praising his genius! Lol.
Russian take on the Trump administration:
They beat our asses like we were little pieces of shit...
Of course, that just sets the standard. The jury's still out on Binden's response to the invasion of Ukraine. If Russia's description of Biden's response is, "They beat our asses like we were little pieces of shit." then Biden will have earned his praise as well.
He would not have had to "retaliate" because it never would have happened in the first place. But where would Putin get the idea that the mastermind behind our Afghanistan withdrawal was someone he could outfox?
Yes, the only factor that matters to Putin is who the US President is - you've solved the puzzle, and the answer is the world revolves around your partisanship once again; Amazing!
I would say it's a major factor in the thinking. Putin does not want to get into a shooting war with the US. Assessing the likely response of the US President would be critical.
A shooting war over Ukraine hasn't been on the table since 9-11.
Um, you know that Trump is the one who surrendered in Afghanistan and negotiated our withdrawal with the Taliban, right? Biden just implemented Trump's promise.
We can't really meaningfully speculated about what Putin and Trump might have done.
The only thing we can discuss at this point is what actually happened: Biden invited Putin to make a "minor incursion", and repudiated the security guarantees the Clinton administration gave Ukraine in the Budapest accords. Putin figured in for a penny in for a pound and decided that there wasn't much difference between a major invasion, and the Biden approved minor incursion.
Biden telegraphed vacillation, weakness, and confusion for a month, culminating with sending Harris to Munich.
Those are the facts, we don't need to speculate about things that never happened.
You clearly don't have a reliable timeline of the events you are invoking as a causal pathway.
And you clearly don't have a real argument to make.
"an 80-year-old "
One really can't wait for these clones to switch in a couple years to pushing a 78 year old for President.
Would personally much prefer DeSantis to win the nomination, speaking for myself.
Nothing better than a President with an IQ of maybe 85.
Biden acts older than his age. He reminds of what my dad was like at age 78. There are many men in their 80s or even their 90s who are far more vigorous and intellectually capable than Biden appears to be.
Dude, we all saw you Trumpkins making those claims before the presidential debates, and then Biden run circles around Trump in the actual debate.
As your "dear leader," "F.D. Wolf," I can't thank you enough for your undying love and support. Now, can you thank me for all of the Y-U-G-E-L-Y great things I did for you by donating me some money? Please! I really need it!
Putin wanted to make Obama look bad in 2014 and he wants to make Biden look bad (and Trump look good) now. This isn’t his only motivation but it certainly disproves your theory.
This is a funny thing people are saying, because in a lot of ways Putin's play was almost designed to exploit Trump's ignorance and fondness for flattery.
The first thing that needs to be understood about Putin's waiting until now is leverage: Putin has hundreds of billions to weather sanctions, and was just on the cusp of getting Nord Stream 2 online. If that gas pipeline was up and running and supplying Europe with gas, it would have put pressure on unity among NATO. And it takes time to run up a surplus to endure sanctions.
Second, Putin chose to pull the trigger on this attack while Germany has a brand-new chancellor, France is in an election season, and the U.S. is still arguing among themselves. It makes sense to strike now, when leaders are still fresh or vulnerable. Macron in particular may suffer for his futile attempts to dissuade Putin. Johnson's troubles were probably impossible to predict, though who knows - maybe Putin's hybrid warfare is pushing those along.
Third - think about how this plays out with Trump. Putin sets up troops, prepares to invade. Putin invites Trump to a grand summit where they can work out a new arrangement for Eastern Europe. Trump, not being too enthused about NATO anyway, agrees that Ukraine is none of his concern and sees no issue with pulling back from a bunch of Baltic countries he's never heard of. Putin agrees to acknowledge the "independence" of these states, in return, and says a bunch of flattering things about Trump's desire for peace in front of a bunch of cameras. Trump goes home and starts complaining about how no one has given him the Nobel Peace Prize yet. Meanwhile, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Poland, and Ukraine are left out to dry.
My guess is that this is why Putin and his cronies have been complaining so much about how Biden was "goading" them into war. They were hoping for a fake new world order, negotiated with a fool. Instead they got a unified front.
That's a lot of Putin fan fiction. Like most fan fiction, it's neither well written nor remotely plausible.
It’s certainly more realistic than anyone supposing that Trump would have stopped Putin from going after Ukraine. That’s been in the cards since 2008. We might have avoided a military confrontation, sure. But only because Trump would have made Putin’s goal easier to achieve without it. NATO would have been split, Europe and the US would take different approaches, there would be no military support except for anything passed out of a veto proof Congress, etc. Those are all along the vectors that Trump laid out while in office. To contend otherwise is some serious 1984 shit.
Is this Putin's Afghainstan quagmire? It's one thing to sneak take an easily isolated peninsula like Crimea; it's another thing entirely to try to occupy a huge country like Ukraine. Russia's military has shown its ineptness quite a lot recently; remember that aircraft carrier which broke down near Syria several years ago? Memory says it had to be towed to safety. The other carriers they sold to China and India were in pretty sorry condition too, IIRC.
Of course, it might just be that their navy was starved of funds because the army was taking so much, and Russia is, and always has been, a territorial nation whose first priority must always be its army. Its navy is a toy to boost emperors' and tsars' egos.
But the Russian army hasn't covered itself with glory in Syria either.
If Ukraine manages to hold together long enough for NATO to supply it with cheap anti-air and anti-tank weapons, Russia could end up bogged down in Putin's Vietnam-Afghanistan-Chechnya. Won't help Ukraine much in the meantime, but it's a possible light at the end of the tunnel. Will Putin's generals eventually end it, or will Putin just get too old and die and leave it to his successors to end the quagmire?
I don't expect it, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in a year or two, Putin has a sudden "heart attack" and dies in office.
If he tries to occupy all of Ukraine then it's hard to see how that's sustainable.
If he just wants some more land and a nationalist win, then that seems more attainable; NATO does not seem to have much appetite to oppose Russia with force right yet (and I agree).
Dunno if assassination is as easy as you think, though.
The Russians/Soviets did manage to occupy all of eastern Europe...
This ain't the USSR.
Let me see what could have been the reason they were able to do that. Oh yeah WWII which decimated those societies before they overran them throwing out the Germans. And don't forget our contribution to that process.
No mention at all about Russia's technique of infiltrating a region they mean to invade by illegal immigration, to build up a friendly population and have organizers and saboteurs in place?
They don't up and suddenly invade, they spend years prepping the region in a manner you'd declare a right, so I guess it's not shocking you didn't deem it worthy of mention.
You think Mexico is going to invade the US?
The Grand Fenwick gambit.
I think they're thinking more of pulling a reverse Texas.
LOL.
No mention at all of imaginary things in Brett's head, no.
Does the ICC have jurisdiction over Putin?
Assume it did. What next?
If the ICC got involved it would be because enough countries cared, and those countries can do things in the name of enforcing the ICC's orders.
Maybe the only result is he has to confine his life to Russia, China, and Belarus. I am thinking about James Alan Gardner's science fiction novels. In his future, the civilizations who rule the galaxy kill any "dangerous" entities who try to travel into space. A character notes that the military types on Earth are probably afraid to jump too high lest they be zapped.
At this point his time horizon may be short enough that he doesn't care about anything they might threaten; He's been under treatment for cancer for quite some time.
"Without [a superpower able to project deterrent power] there won't be any order at all. Not even the laws of war."
A news story this morning gave my answer. The ICC claims jurisdiction over war crimes but not crimes against peace, the exclusion because Russia and Ukraine have not accepted ICC jurisdiction.
I hope Trump's DOJ is working on a capital crime indictment against Putin.
This is no big deal; it's nothing to be worried about at all. Don't buy all of the lies that you're hearing from the evil FAKE NEWS media! If you want the truth and REAL NEWS, listen to me, YOUR DEAR LEADER, and Tucker. My good friend Vlad is merely doing what any sane, rational individual would do when something belonging to them is stolen. Speaking of stolen, don't forget that THE 2020 ELECTION WAS RIGGED, AND I WON BY A Y-U-G-E LANDSLIDE! TRUTH SOCIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know, my friends and cultists...I mean, supporters, when I first met my lover Vlad and gazed lovingly into his beautiful blue eyes, I could clearly see that he is a very gentle soul; similar to what Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin were, too. Vlad, not unlike my now deceased buddy Jeffrey Epstein--I have tons of friends--is a "terrific guy," so please, cut him a break! He's only doing what's best for the citizens of Mother Russia. Why can't our country be more like Russia, right!
Well said!
"You know what the Ukraine is? It's a sitting duck, a road apple Newman. The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine."- thoughts Vladimir Putin watching Seinfeld.
Counterfactual - If a significantly large portion of the populace of an area truly desires to leave their country and join another (regardless of our opinions of which government is better to its people), and the mother country's government refuses to permit that secession, would the adoptive country ever be justified in sending an occupying military force to enforce that secession? I feel like the answer is yes, for some degree of "significantly large", although I have a hard time quantifying that.
E.g., what if American colonists had wanted to become a part of France or Spain instead of being independent? Would French or Spanish military presence within the colonies to protect/enforce that be justifiable?
Ah, a long, long post on international "law".
Here is a much shorter and far, far more accurate version:
‘The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must’
Saved you some time. You're welcome.
I think it's an almost total mistake to apply the methods of legal analysis to the present problem of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Legal analysis is a valid tool when applied to a certain set of systems: those containing a framework of legal principles ultimately backstopped by a powerful authority widely recognized as legitimate.
In the absence of a broad international consensus that can effectively project power, it is impossible to enforce principles of "international law". Putin, like the Soviets before him, is cynical. If his maneuvering succeeds in exposing the West as ultimately impotent, he will have changed the rules of the game to an extent that our ideas of justice and fair play will be of far less importance.
And if we'd acted in accordance with that rule with respect to Yugoslavia in 1999 and Iraq in 2003, we'd have a leg or two to stand on now.
So have the motion to outlaw Russia forever be made by a country that did not invade Yugoslavia or Iraq. There are some other countries that don't like what's happening today.
Conclusion: International "law" is a tale, told by an idiot, signifying nothing.
It's like having a criminal code, which covers everyone except criminals.
"Peace treaties never happen until they are no longer needed."
The OP wrote: "That isn't because I buy Putin's ridiculous claims that Russians and Ukrainians are essentially the same, and therefore must be united. It's because I reject, on principle, the theory that groups have a right to rule particularly territories based on ties of race, ethnicity, or culture."
Who has the right to determine who may enter a country if not the citizens of that country?
It is at best unhelpful to clutter (or rather attempt to color) the argument with reference to group, race, ethnicity, and culture. Regardless of their group, race, ethnicity, or culture -do the citizens not have the right to determine who may enter their country?
If not, then there is no such thing as an invasion and Putin is just migrating his forces (voting with his foot soldiers) and no one has the right to stop him.
Comrade "Roger S", uniting the commenters of the Volokh Conspiracy in a way nobody else can.
To my dearest comrade and lover Vlad: You go, girlfriend! God (me), and all of my pro-democracy right-wing conservative Republicans in the United States, are on your side! I know how Y-U-G-E-L-Y busy you are right now rightfully trying to take back what was stolen from you--we both know how that feels--but I'll call you later, sweetie. Toodles!
Didn't the UN grab Palestine in 1947 and give it to Israel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
No, they did not.
First, there was no state to grab it from. Second, they did not in fact give it to Israel (which of course did not even exist at the time). There was a proposal to partition the land between various groups living there, but that proposal was never implemented.
All trade stops with Russia.
All Russian bank accounts are seized.
Nordstream 2 pipeline is shut down or bombed.
We are essentially at war.
Ukraine is the most corrupt country on the planet. If it's absorbed by something nearly as grotesque, who can possibly give a damn? Russia's own population demographic has doomed its existence. I'm taking the long view here, and I'm 82 years old.
Ukraine is no paragon of official virtue, but it is perceived as less corrupt than Russia (and a lot of other countries).
Russia is a primary driver of Ukrainian corruption; They didn't want a free and prosperous country on their borders, that Russians would contrast with their own state.
I don't want the norm of the world for even "bad" countries to get absorbed by their neighbors by military force. Can't actually imagine a world where this is a *good* thing.