Did the Free Market Ruin Our Economy? A Soho Forum Debate
A livestreamed debate between Binyamin Appelbaum and Gene Epstein
HD Download"Free market ideology is largely responsible for the dismal performance of the U.S. economy over the past few decades." That is the resolution for a live debate taking place on Monday, October 15, 2022, at the Sheen Center in downtown Manhattan. The debate is also being livestreamed on YouTube.
Defending the resolution is Binyamin Appelbaum, the lead writer on business and economics for the New York Times editorial board. He previously worked as a Washington correspondent for the Times. He is the author of The Economists' Hour: False Prophets, Free Markets, and the Fracture of Society (2019).
Arguing for the negative is Gene Epstein, the director of the Soho Forum and former economics and books editor of Barron's. His last published book was Econospinning: How to Read Between the Lines When the Media Manipulate the Numbers. Epstein has taught economics at the City University of New York and St. John's University, and he has worked as a senior economist for the New York Stock Exchange. He has defended the negative at six Soho Forum debates. His November 2019 debate on socialism with University of Massachusetts professor Richard Wolff has gained more than 5 million views on Youtube.
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The only thing ruined by free markets is cronyism.
The only thing ruined by freedom is government.
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No, but corporatism probably did.
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Joe Biden ruined our economy.
Fuckin’ a right.
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Fuck Joe Biden.
21 days.
He has been aiding and abetting in it since he first held political office, but it was not something he did all by himself.
There is a lot of truth to that--in 1987-92...
An absurd debate. Free markets work. The assholes against free markets point to markets where they have hamfisted lay interfered and blame the market, not their interference.
One of my favorite peeves is "market failure". Markets thrive on "market failure"; it is how entrepreneurs identify opportunities and fill needs. It is government failures which never get fixed, which fester and create new opportunities for cronies to apply bandaids without fixing the root infections, and now you've got festering on top of festering.
Indeed. I will also note that often when people bemoan "MARKET FAILURE!!!" it is merely impatience. They will give government years of bloat, waste and incompetence to fuck up, fuck up again, fuck up more again, and then maybe kind of be on a track to doing something with schools, but if the "Free Market" didn't give us pollution-free flying cars yesterday, why that is a damning indictment of markets if there ever was one.
I will also note that often when people bemoan “MARKET FAILURE!!!” it is merely impatience.
The rest of the time it is because the market "failed" to give them what they want, at the price they want to pay. Fortunately for them, nobody can ignore the iron laws of supply and demand and promise free shit like agents of government.
Whenever anyone tosses off that phrase, I know that they're trying to rationalize interference in my liberty. I need to be far more aggressive in calling out that shit.
-jcr
Free markets are nothing more than a combination of property rights, right to contract, and right to associate.
Anyone who argues against the right to freely and voluntarily exchange goods and services with another party needs to have their fucking head examined.
And by examination, perhaps that should use a bullet.
If the advocates for free markets are not taking the lead in identifying and fixing distorted/rigged markets, then why should people who are iffy about free markets not believe that rigged markets are free markets.
You do realize it is leftists like you that predominately distort and rig the game, right? The unspoken demand in your idiotic demand is that they be fixed to produce the outcomes you prefer and not just undo the damage you chose to do.
"If the advocates for free markets are not taking the lead in identifying and fixing distorted/rigged markets,..."
Yeah, nobody here objects to tin-pot-dictator wannabes like Newsom crashing an economy, pushed on by you and your PANIC flag, asshole.
The distorted/rigged markets have been identified a million times over by advocates for free markets. The corrupt Statists in power have no interest in fixing them.
"If the advocates for free markets are not taking the lead in identifying and fixing distorted/rigged markets,"
Stop.
That right there is an example of JFear stealing a base and assuming facts not in evidence. But that is how JFear rolls- by spouting off conclusory nonsense as if it is fact.
Sure, it usually makes him look foolish in the end when someone points out how absolutely illiterate on the facts he appears, but when his ignorance knows no depths, boundless (and baseless) confidence is all JFear can muster.
You would think he gets tired of beclowning himself spouting nonsense. But nope:
https://reason.com/2022/10/13/inflation-hits-8-2-percent-after-another-month-of-sharply-rising-prices/?comments=true#comment-9744897
That's him last week demonstrating a lack of grasp on what inflation is. Not happy to be-clown himself on such a narrow subject, he now wants to spout bullshit about markets.
Advocates of free markets don't have any political power.
Well that ain't true if they vote DeRp.
Second, don't need power to either speak out or be listened to. And rigged markets have a huge political audience in a democracy since markets are almost rigged for the powerful against the much larger powerless.
All they need do is apply the NAP. Does the initiatory use of force play any part?
Advocates for free markets can’t fix the corruption that progressives and neocons are guilty of. Believe me, we would love to, but successful advocacy for free markets requires a basic level of economic understanding, rational thought, and honesty that people like you and many other Americans are evidently incapable of.
That, plus a question mark! After all, Freedom is Slavery is a common expression.
I really do think that advocates for free markets just need to speak up. I was amazed how fast any discussion about TARP stopped once the banks and billionaires got their bailouts.
We do, pinhead.
-jcr
Gene is a treasure. His appearances on Rob (Robbie the Fire) Bernstein’s “Run Your Mouth” podcast are my favorites.
Gene really knows how to explain economics and big ideas to dummies like me in a way I can understand.
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Are we going to have serious debates with flat earthers next? Because that’s the level of ignorance and idiocy that Appelbaum is guilty of.
Applebaum vs Epstein? I wonder if Herr Misek has a horse in this race?
I would have said "What free market?" and rested my case.
All they have to do is define the Herbert Hoover Administration, the Nixon Administration and Hitler's Third Reich as "the free market." Since all three were unfriendly toward communism--and that is the only criterion--leading the witness is a cake walk.
Herbert Hoover
That particular ivory-tower douchebag should be reviled for all time. My grandfather did time in a federal prison for protesting the war that Woodrow lied us into.
-jcr
I would say useless lock-downs and insane money printing ruined our economy and neither has anything to do with free markets.
There is no point in debating economics with lefturd propagandists. They don't know shit, but they'll ladle out contempt on those of us who do, and pretend they're dispensing wisdom. Fuck the NYT, fuck Krugman, fuck this Applebaum guy, and fuck every other lying commie shit in the propaganda racket.
-jcr
Why would 5 million people consider listening to a debate where someone is going to defend socialism? This debate is a no brainer. Free markets will eventually destroy the society in which it's practiced - to work, markets must be free and fair.
Fair is a concept not a market.
Don't need to read. He writes for the NYT. He is by definition evil.
The NYT reports roughly the same news as every other respected news outfit on earth. It simply disagrees with FOX News and Stormfront.com.
Has Occam's razor never been explained to you people?