Why Thomas Massie Is Wrong About the Pot Legalization Bill

Yes, taxes and regulation are bad. No, they're not worse than locking people up.

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Why Thomas Massie Is Wrong About the Pot Legalization Bill

Before we talk about the delicious/delirious content on the latest Reason Roundtable podcast, a quick reminder: It's the penultimate day of our annual Webathon. Challenge grants are afoot. We take still more listener questions in the pod below, but before you click the clicky…

WON'T YOU PLEASE DONATE TO REASON RIGHT ABOUT THE HELL NOW?

OK, long story short, the House of Representatives on Friday voted to, at long bloody last, end the federal war on marijuana. The winning 228–164 margin included just five Republicans—none of them named Thomas Massie, the libertarian-leaning Kentucky congressman who has been a past supporter of legalization efforts. Massie explained his position thusly:

I wish @SpeakerPelosi was serious about repealing the federal prohibition on marijuana. I could cross the aisle to vote on it if it weren't being used as a vehicle to pass new taxes and spending.

Give us a clean Bill or at least allow amendments to be heard. https://t.co/bTenlmsjck

— Thomas Massie (@RepThomasMassie) December 2, 2020

In today's podcast, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, Peter Suderman, and Matt Welch each take turns arguing against this logic, while also reflecting on the broader history of repealing prohibitions and the immediate challenges of convincing any major political party to reduce state power and expand individual autonomy. The gang also has acidic words for the Food and Drug Administration's foot-dragging on COVID-19 vaccines, kinder words for our own magazine (we like ourselves, we really do!), plus the usual pointless squabbling about the Star Wars universe.

Audio production by Ian Keyser and Regan Taylor.

Music: "Endless Fields - Pizzicato Version" by Ian Post.

Relevant links from the show:

Be berry afraid…. (Katherine Mangu-Ward)

"For the First Time Ever, the House Votes To Repeal the Federal Ban on Marijuana," by Jacob Sullum

"Drugs Declare Victory in War on Drugs," by Jacob Sullum

"Biden's Choice To Head Health and Human Services Is a Lawsuit-Happy Government Nanny," by Scott Shackford

"The U.K. Approves COVID-19 Vaccine While the U.S. FDA Dawdles," by Ronald Bailey

"Will the COVID-19 Vaccines Soon Crush the Pandemic?" by Ronald Bailey

"Like COVID-19 Vaccines? Thank Globalization!" by Eric Boehm

"You Asked, We Told: The Reason Roundtable Fields Your Questions," by Matt Welch

"Will Cities Survive 2020?" by Christian Britschgi

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• Zappa

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Klotsvog, by Margarita Khemlin

Peter Suderman

• The Mandalorian
• Jedi Fallen Order

Nick Gillespie

• Reason magazine

---

Comments

[MollyGodiva]

My dumbass Rep. Keller did not vote for the bill because:

“Instead of addressing the plight of millions of Americans across the country who are struggling during this pandemic, this week Speaker Pelosi decided to once again put politics over people and hold votes on legalizing marijuana and exotic animals instead of COVID relief measures. I urge my colleagues across the aisle to do their jobs and join House Republicans in delivering targeted relief to our families, businesses, and industries who need it the most.”

So he thinks that Congress can only do one thing at at time? Also the work was already done, his "yes" vote would no more slow down the House then a "no" vote. So much for Keller standing up for freedom.

[Roberta]

Legalizing exotic animals? Like ferrets? There's a HyR topic that got nosed out by food trucks and Mexican ass sex. But those are state laws, so couldn't be what Keller was on about.

[MollyGodiva]

Big Cat Public Safety Act

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiger-king-big-cat-public-safety-act-passed-by-house/

[SIV]

OK, I should have refreshed the page. This is what I expected. At least small cats are exempt. I can still aspire to having a pet ocelot frolicking on the ocelot hide-upholstered seats of my Bentley.

[SIV]

legalizing marijuana and exotic animals

Did they actually legalize something related to exotic animals? I'd think a Democrat Congress (and most of a Republican one too) would be restricting and banning property rights to animals.

[MollyGodiva]

You are not wrong.
Big Cat Public Safety Act
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiger-king-big-cat-public-safety-act-passed-by-house/

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[lap83]

"Yes, taxes and regulation are bad. No, they're not worse than locking people up"

Uh, not mutually exclusive.

[mad.casual]

Just ask Eric Garner.

[Don't look at me!]

You now will be jailed for violating the new regulations and tax rules.

[Social Justice is neither]

But only if you are the wrong kind of person. See the pants shitting by Reason and the zealous prosecution of peaceful protest of people on the right compared to the fawning adulation by media toward violent marxists (sorry, peaceful protesters) on the left and their kid glove handling by authorities.

[Dillinger]

>>if it weren’t being used as a vehicle to pass new taxes and spending

what isn't?

[mad.casual]

new taxes and spending.

More of fucking Republicans like Massie and Amash's completely unprincipled opposition to spending under an oppositional administration.

[Squirrelloid]

This is sarcasm, right?

Amash and Massie have voted for some of the lowest spending over the next 10 years, compared to all other members of congress. (They're 6th and 7th lowest).

[mad.casual]

Amash isn't even a Republican. The above stance just fits/busts Reason's prototypical 'both sides'/'Republicans only care about spending when the opposition is spending' bullshit narrative.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Speaking of other libertarian topics... Uber abandoned its self-driving division. So much for 75,000 self-driving cars on the roads by 2019.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

While Uber logged a lot of testing miles before March 2018—second only to Waymo in the United States—the cars' driving behavior was sometimes erratic.

“Every other day in February”
"A car was damaged nearly every other day in February," one Uber staffer wrote in a scathing internal email in February 2018, shortly before Herzberg's death. "We shouldn't be hitting things every 15,000 miles."

The 2018 crash occurred in part because Uber had disabled some of the vehicles' emergency braking systems. Apparently the systems had been engaging too often, causing uncomfortable rides. Instead, the company relied on safety drivers to intervene if the car made a mistake.

The resulting crash forced Uber to halt all on-road testing for a few months before resuming testing on a much smaller scale. The program never regained the sense of momentum it had prior to the crash.

[JeremyR]

It amazes me that no one is in jail for that.

It's basically like ED 209 from Robocop.

[Roberta]

Uber had disabled some of the vehicles’ emergency braking systems. Apparently the systems had been engaging too often,.... The program never regained the sense of momentum it had prior to the crash.

See what they did there?

[IceTrey]

Shouldn't regular braking have sufficed?

[SIV]

Well. I guess we'll all have to walk then. At leastntil we have taxpayer -funded government-run high speed choo choos and light rail choo choos, momrail choo choos and hyper-loop choo choos...

[SIV]

"monorail"

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Is there a chance the track could bend?

[Sometimes Bad Is Bad]

So reason is advocating for new taxes now.

Why do liberaltarians manage to fuck everything up.

[sarcasmic]

The people at Reason don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. So awful.

[mad.casual]

But they live by 'The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.' Especially if the enemy is more spending that they approve of.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

SBIB, if Reason supports Pelosi's bill: REASON IS ADVOCATING FOR NEW TAXES

SBIB, if Reason opposes Pelosi's bill: NOW REASON IS EVEN TURNING ON POT LEGALIZATION, THEY'VE GONE FULL LEFTIE

[Don't look at me!]

You now will be jailed for violating the new regulations and tax rules.

[sarcasmic]

You'd leave marijuana as Schedule I over some bullshit that can be changed later?

[Social Justice is neither]

The schedule 1 designation can't be changed later? God you are stupid and/or dishonest.

[Juice]

Right now states are nullifying that Schedule 1 bullshit with no federal taxes.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yeah you're right. The taxes on alcohol are so awful. Let's go back to Prohibition instead. No alcohol taxes!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Do we really need to have a discussion on a libertarian forum on why taxing and regulating drugs is better than outright banning them?

[Juice]

And when the ban isn't enforced?

[Don't look at me!]

Just saying.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Yeah, he is gonna bitch no matter what. He is not arguing in good faith.

[sarcasmic]

I'm leaning towards mental disorder.

[Mother's Lament]

But he didn't say that. Jeff put some worded in his mouth and then you and sarc decided to join in and have a circle jerk.

You three are such amazing pieces of shit.

[sarcasmic]

There's principled and there's stupid.

[Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------]

Eh, I always thought Massie was a bit of a poser and too conservative.

[DaveSs]

Can we stop pretending this bill means no more locking people up for selling weed.

The shiny new regulatory apparatus attached to it is to make sure that 'the right people' (politically connected people) are the ones who get to sell w/o going to prison.

Everyone else, well the BATFEW will be busting down your door if you even think of selling any.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You are right, the "weed bootleggers" will still be punished, just like alcohol bootleggers are punished now.

But it is definitely a step in the right direction nonetheless.

[DaveSs]

The same sort of people doing time today we'll be the "weed bootleggers" prosecuted under this proposal.
I rather doubt they would see it as a step in the right direction.

It's BS and the crooks in Congress shouldn't be praised for it.

[De Oppresso Liber]

No, It's not BS. It's time for legalization of weed. Yes, there will be regs defining how you can grow it and taxes, but that is infinitely better than arresting people for using a plant, and denying sick kids and cancer patients real medicine.

There's 0 probability of congress legalizing any recreational drug without taxing it. If that's what you are holding out for, you might as well support the drug war.

[mad.casual]

There’s 0 probability of congress legalizing any recreational drug without taxing it. If that’s what you are holding out for, you might as well support the drug war.

Technically, a vaccine is a drug.

[CE]

The Senate should take up the bill and explain why they're not voting for something that a majority of Americans want.

[DaveSs]

The house should go back and fix it so that it actually achieves what a majority of Americans want.

[De Oppresso Liber]

It does. Hate to break it to you, but most Americans like other people being taxed.

[lap83]

"Most Americans" are not woke, socialist college students who have never seen a pay stub

[Zeb]

No, but they are also not mostly principled fiscal conservatives or libertarians. I don't think the majority is really against "sin taxes".

[Rhombus of Terror]

No, the majority really are against "sin taxes." But what they consider a "sin" depends on the person...

For conservatives, it's drinking, smoking, doing drugs, and prostitution.

For leftists, it's earning income, buying anything, selling anything, giving anything away, having anything given to you, or owning anything.

[Social Justice is neither]

Good to see you standing up for the regulatory regime that murdered Eric Garner. Of course you are arguing for more of that, what good little leftist doesn't argue for more regulation to fuck over the little guy.

[Juice]

Maybe it's in the right general direction, but it's certainly a step on the wrong path.

[CE]

Florida state government doesn't like being mocked, raids ex employees home at gunpoint and steals her computers:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/12/07/florida-police-seize-computer-of-covid-data-whistleblower/

[Titus PUllo]

Just like so called "end to prohibition"...govenrment not really legalizing pot but creating a regulated crony enrichment tax on something people were paying no taxes on today...

Try to buy wine online...still barriers passed by State Booze Authorities to stifle competition. Can't buy beer online or hard booze either...all to protect the well connected distributors/retailers who just happen to donate heavily to same politicians.

Reason blasting Massie perhaps the most libertarian and intelligent Congressman (sorry but he destroyed John Kerry in the "climate debate")...not surprised. Welch is not a libertarian..

[De Oppresso Liber]

Be sure to let all the people who go to prison for pot in the time we are waiting for a perfect bill to pass that their sacrifice is appreciated.

[Don't look at me!]

Be sure to let all the people who go to prison for pot minor regulations violations in the time we are waiting for a perfect bill to pass that their sacrifice is appreciated.

[Juice]

If the Dems cared about them so much, they'd take out the taxes and stupid programs.

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[Tony]

Taxes are the price you pay for weed legalization.

This concludes our lesson on how stuff works.

[Zeb]

How about just descheduling it?

[Juice]

No, they can't just let you be. That would be racist.

[Titus PUllo]

You have a right to your body and what you put into it.. "The price you pay" sound right out of a statists book. You should have to pay a tax on not using your property..the "Roberts" rational for Obummer care..yep the Govt actually thinks they own all rights and can give you some but you have to pay for them. This is ridiculous...and your rational is idiotic.

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[lap83]

There was another bill, the STATES act, I believe, that would decriminalize weed without the taxes and regs. But Pelosi won't consider any legislation unless it drastically increases government and punishes people with real jobs.

But yeah, Reason, we just have no choice but to accept the bill with a REPARATIONS tax.

If you want a woke police state just be honest. It would be a refreshing change of pace.

[Foo_dd]

i think the benefit of this bill is being grossly overstated. a third of the country lives where recreational usage is now legal, the federal government rarely prosecutes activity legal within the state, and the federal government effectively has lost it's teeth in the fight against marijuana. the federal government needs to de-schedule and decriminalize...... full stop. i do not feel compelled to compromise in any way on this. i do not see any value in giving the federal government more power in exchange for giving up power they don't really have to begin with. i am typically pragmatic and willing to compromise to prevent perfect from being the enemy of good...... but this bill belongs in he garbage. the increased taxes and regulation were a poison pill form the beginning, because the intent of this bill was never to be passed, but to create division.

[Juice]

Yup. I'd rather federal law continue to be ignored and nullified. The feds deserve no credit and no taxes.

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[Juice]

I'd vote no too. A federal tax is certainly worth voting down. Sorry, prisoners. I didn't put you there and I'm not holding you hostage for new federal taxes and stupid "equity" programs.

[Jim Brown]

Do you really believe that Massie would've voted the same way if there was any chance the Senate would take up the bill for debate/vote? I'm not sure that I do. Given that, I find the personal attacks on Massie a little over the top. You admitted that he is the best we have anywhere in government and to cast him off to these personal attacks just because he came to a different decision than you would like on this one topic seems harsh. Along with everything he has stood for during his time in the house his most consistent position has been his opposition to taxation. He came to the reasonable position that he could not support this bill on the basis of the increased taxes and growth of government.

Again, I am not convinced that he would vote the same way if the house vote were not symbolic. To personally attack him seems a little classless. Something I would expect from the MSM or opposition.

[Lord Blastington]

it may be bad for Taxes in the short term, however for the Long Term, opening up more legal industry can help lower taxes

[DOMMI]

I think you need to check the latest new that they have published. You can check that story here.