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Police Union Complains That Public Got to See Them Roughing Up Utah Nurse

Transparency about behavior of government employees is not a violation of due process.

Alex WubbelsSalt Lake City PoliceThe head of the Salt Lake Police Association has watched the country's outrage over the videos showing a nurse getting arrested for refusing to draw a man's blood without a warrant and has decided the correct response is to complain that the public got to see what its officers did.

Union head Stephen Hartney sent a letter to the city's mayor and police chief to complain video of the brief arrest of nurse Alex Wubbels has made "pariahs" of Det. Jeff Payne and his watch commander at the time of the incident, Lt. James Tracy.

Wubbels became an insta-celebrity on Labor Day weekend after she released police body camera footage showing Payne very forcefully arresting her at University of Utah Hospital because she refused his demand that she draw blood from an unconscious victim of a nasty high-speed car crash. The patient, William Gray, was not a suspect, nor involved in the chase, and Payne didn't have a warrant. Wubbels, surrounded by staff at the hospital, explained that she was not permitted to draw the man's blood. Payne arrested her, in what appeared on video to be sheer frustration at having been defied.

Payne and Tracy have been placed on leave while the case was investigated. A couple of weeks ago the city revealed an internal investigation and a civilian review board determined the two officers violated department policies.

Hartney this week complained the police body camera footage should not have been publicly released until the investigation was completed. From the Salt Lake Tribune:

The letter said the union was, at this point, not arguing or even discussing the merits of the allegations raised against the officers. "Rather we are solely concerned... with the 'investigatory process' which we believe has been corrupted."

The letter claims the city has not followed an "agreed upon and carefully scripted process" for investigating the conduct of police officers. At the news conference, Hartney focused on if the city should have released the footage so soon under the state's Government Records Access and Management Act (GRAMA), considering the release could have interfered with the internal affairs investigation.

The release of the body cam footage and information from the disciplinary investigation "has created a public furor which makes reasoned determinations difficult, if not impossible," the letter states.

The city, however, didn't release the videos. It agreed to a request by Wubbels to release the footage to her, following the law Hartney referenced. The city said it had no good reason to deny the video footage to Wubbels.

The two officers weren't even put on administrative leave until after Wubbels went public with the video footage.

What might have been forgotten in all of this is Wubbels released the video because she believed she was exposing a widespread problem of police bullying nurses into drawing blood without consent or a warrant.

And while Wubbels was pleased the Salt Lake City Police had been responsive to her claims of abuse, she and other hospital staff were concerned about other law enforcement agencies, including university police. Campus police did absolutely nothing during the arrest, and since then the hospital has implemented new policies to limit police access to parts of the hospital.

Public pressure and response is important to holding police officers accountable. They are public servants, and Hartney's responses, like we've seen from other police union leaders, misuse the concept of due process to try to conceal information from the people to whom the police are supposed to answer.

Yesterday we saw that a North Carolina law exempting body camera footage from public records requests was very clearly being used to try to shield police from exposure of conduct that might expose them to public criticism.

Gray, the car crash victim unable to consent to Payne's demand for a blood draw, died Monday while still in the hospital.

Photo Credit: Salt Lake City Police

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  • Juice||

    Don't want to look like a thug? Turn off your body camera.

  • BYODB||

    It's telling that police unions seem to recognize that these body cameras can only be useful to the public to determine if the officer did something wrong. As opposed to the potential situation where an officer uses body cam footage to determine that a person is making a wrongful accusation towards an officer.

    Nope, that only goes one way folks. That says a lot about their real motives in my mind.

  • JSpey||

    I'm sure it does go both ways at least to some extent, but "criminal's statements prove to be wrong after review of body camera" doesn't make a good story.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    For a long time, Unions have been far more about protecting the substandard and lazy than defending the rights of good members.

  • bacchys||

    They represent good members as well, but they don't get to pick and choose who to defend.

    However, this is just stupid.

    I had a coworker who stole new metal parts that weight about 300 lbs. each to sell as scrap. The steel mill I worked at paid the scrapyard to turn people in who had certain kinds of metal, especially new, which is how they caught him. Our zone man had to go in argue for him, of course, because that's what a union does. They're kind of like defense attorneys that way. His story was that he found them in a stream outside the plant. The zone man told him "Come up with something better. I'm on your side and I don't believe that."

    He didn't, and the best the zone man could do is talk the company out of pressing charges. He was still fired, though.

  • Tionico||

    don't want to look like a thug? DON"T ACT LIKE ONE.

    Especially when you are wearing a government issued costume and carrying a piece of tin on your sunken chest, and have a gun on your belt.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Cops never release the names or photos of suspects until after the case has been decided at trial right? So cops themselves should be afforded the same consideration as they give non-cop suspects.

  • ||

    Not to disagree with your underlying thesis (actually to kinda reinforce it), but this sorta asserts some constitutionally guaranteed right to be a police officer, face your accusers as an officer, and/or expect privacy as one, etc.

  • Paloma||

    The same consideration they give non cop suspects? The guy who was captured on video running into the crowd at Charlottesville had that footage replayed, and his name and face all over the media and it didn't take 48 hours to do it. I doubt he gets a board of fellow white supremacists to review his guilt or innocence, or mitigate any punishment.

  • Tionico||

    Nice work with the stealth sarc. You almost had me!!!!

  • Principal Spittle||

    Photos of suspects are not withheld to protect their privacy. Evidence is withheld to protect the integrity of the investigation and prevent the soon to be accused from taking action to hinder prosecution. As it should be.

    This is why mugshots ate made public. It is the declaration of the criminal justice system that a case has been made against the individual, if you care to you can come down to the jail and kiss them goodbye through 4" of glass. This is wrong in my opinion.

  • Lily Bulero||

    "The release of the body cam footage and information from the disciplinary investigation "has created a public furor which makes reasoned determinations difficult, if not impossible,"

    So does the releasing of the names and mug shots of arrestees before they're convicted. I suppose the police will stop that practice at once? /sarc

  • SQRLSY One||

    "Gray, the car crash victim unable to consent to Payne's demand for a blood draw, died Monday while still in the hospital."

    ***IF ONLY*** the warrantless cops had been able to check his blood for illegal drugs, he'd still be with us!!!

    (As the cops said, they were only looking to protect him. They did NOT get to protect him, and now he's dead! Somebody has to DO something to prevent this sort of thing from happening again!)

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Are the Utah Highway Patrol even on the hook for Gray's death? Or has this nurse debacle set off by the attempt to paint Gray through blood work as the culprit put everyone off the scent of the original fatal fuckup?

  • Brother Kyfho||

    That's exactly why they were trying to get his blood. They were chasing some dude (probably against policy) who crossed the center line and ran into Gray. USP wanted to make sure that if Gray wanted to sue, that they'd have something on him to discredit him.

  • Crusty Juggler - Lawbertarian||

    The city said it had no good reason to deny the video footage to Wubbels.

    It's time to fix that loophole.

  • Hugh Akston||

    It's like they don't even FYTW

  • Jerryskids||

    It's Salt Lake City, those people still live in the 1800's like that's the way the law works. With everybody else, unless there's a law mandating the release of the information then releasing the information is prohibited.

  • Don't look at me.||

    Heroes.
    LOL

  • Crusty Juggler - Lawbertarian||

    What might have been forgotten in all of this is Wubbels released the video because she believed she was exposing a widespread problem of police bullying nurses into drawing blood without consent or a warrant.

    She probably takes a knee during the national anthem.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    No biggie. Detective Payne often takes a knee on the necks of suspects.

  • MO_liberty||

    The release of the body cam footage and information from the disciplinary investigation "has created a public furor which makes reasoned determinations difficult, if not impossible," the letter states.


    Did that cop make any reasoned determinations in this case?

    *hurdurdurrr* She ain't breaking the law, she's following policy.

    But she pissed you off!

    *hurdurdurr* You're under arrest, nurse-bitch!

  • Some Engineer||

    I can't figure out how allowing the public to see a video clip would in any way impact the "investigation."

    All it does is makes it tougher for the investigators to sweep this BS under the rug.

  • croaker||

    That's what the union wants.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    The video impacts the "investigation" in a very meaningful way. It makes it impossible for the "investigators" to sweep this BS under the rug.

    Do not question your superiors.

  • Wearenotperfect||

    Agreed!

  • mashed potatoes||

    I always wonder if those doing the TakeAKnee protest would ever in a million years vote against weakening public sector unions like those of the police and which are the foundation for most of the unaccountability.

  • mashed potatoes||

    ** vote against public secto unions/FOR weakening them

  • Lily Bulero||

    We're not anti-union shills like you and your Koch-funded friends! Now shut up, we're going to publicly urinate on the U. S. flag just to show we mean business!

    /sarc

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    In fact it's point number ten in Black Lives Matter's ten-point manifesto.

    Some details:

    Remove barriers to effective misconduct investigations and civilian oversight

    Remove contract provisions, local policies, and provisions in state Law Enforcement Officers' Bills of Rights laws that:

    allow officers to wait 48 hours or more before being interrogated after an incident
    prevent investigators from pursuing other cases of misconduct revealed during an investigation
    prevent an officer's name or picture from being released to the public
    prohibit civilians from having the power to discipline, subpoena or interrogate police officers
    state that the Police Chief has the sole authority to discipline police officers
    enable officers to appeal a disciplinary decision to a hearing board of other police officers
    enable officers to use the contract grievance process to have an outside arbitrator reverse disciplinary decisions and reinstate officers who have committed misconduct
    prevent an officer from being investigated for an incident that happened 100 or more days prior
    allow an officer to choose not to take a lie detector test without being punished, require the civilian who is accusing that officer of misconduct to pass a lie detector first, or prevent the officer's test results from being considered as evidence of misconduct

  • Lily Bulero||

    That, and cut to the chase and forbid collective bargaining for government employees.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    I agree. That is my preferred solution as well.

  • croaker||

    RICO cop unions.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    RICO is godawful law.

    So, about wwhat the cop unions deserve...

  • Netizen_James||

    So just let government managers fire workers for arbitrary, capricious and/or political reasons.

    Wearing a cross - you're fired.
    Putting a Trump bumpersticker on your car? You're fired.
    Putting a 'I support Planned Parenthood' bumpersticker on your car? You're fired.

    Is that really the way you want government to work?

    Do you folks ever think things through, or are you just knee-jerk reactionaries objecting to anything that keeps the ownerclass from having any responsibilities whatsoever with respect to the laborclass?

  • WhereYou'reWrong||

    Nice try, shill, but none of that has anything to do with collective bargaining, or allowing government employees the ability to organize against the citizenry they are supposed to be working for. Wearing a cross - first amendment issue subject to law whether or not you have a union. Being a goddamn totalitarian thug - damn well should be a firing offence.

  • mpercy||

    But it doesn't say anything about removing unions. Those may be things in a union contract that BLM may favor, but that's not the same as favoring elimination of the unions in the first place.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Never said it did. But their proposal does seek to remove the most odious provisions, those which shield cops from accountability, like the 48-hour rule, or the all-police review boards, or the use of outside arbitrators to reinstate bad cops.

    Everyone besides corrupt cops should be for these provisions, since they remove some of the most powerful tools bad cops have to thwart accountability, not just for their unjust actions against blacks but against all citizens.

  • Chili Dogg||

    As long as police unions exist, you're not going to have much luck getting any of the items on your list. Sorry.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Straight from the archives of this lovely magazine.

  • Netizen_James||

    No, that's bunk. Unions aren't the problem.
    Racism is the problem. Many folks still look to the cops to 'keep the darkies in their place'. And the police, like the good little law-and-order sheeple they are - follow orders.

    If the mayors and police chiefs and city councils didn't have a racist agenda, it wouldn't matter what the union wanted.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Yet police union provisions allow cops to evade accountability. Cop-friendly union provisions are therefore one of the main targets of Black Lives Matter, as I outlined above. They're trying to strike at the heart of the power that cops have to shield themselves from the consequences of their own behavior, and I applaud them for that.

  • Lily Bulero||

    It's a broad umbrella, isn't it? There's the road-blockers and the "hands up, don't shoot" narrative inventors, and there are some who seem to have actual useful ideas. I doubt the public will make these fine distinctions, not so long as people under the BLM banner are obstructing highways.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    I don't presume to intuit the fine distinctions that the public might make.

  • Qsl||

    Yet police union provisions allow cops to evade accountability.

    Keep in mind provisions are usually reactionary, and could easily see situations where isolating police from political pressure isn't a bad thing, although like most things the provisions probably go too far.

    That is not to justify the recommendations of the SLPA, which should be mocked for such a blatant dodge of accountability.

    But all the same, I'm curious what other mechanisms the anti (when it's convenient) union crowd has to address corruption from higher up that gets laid upon patrolmen?

  • Arcxjo||

    That nurse was pretty blonde for a darkie.

  • BSL1||

    So, the black mayors and black police chiefs and black city council members which run most of the large and failing cities in America have a racist agenda? Good to know.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Bullshit. How do you explain the deaths of Kelly Thomas, that nice white lady shot by a Somalian cop in Minnesota, and any number of other white people murdered by police? It's not that the victims were dark skinned, it's that they weren't cops and, well, fuck you, that's why.

  • Jalestra||

    It's not racism and looking to fix "racism" isn't going to fix the problem. White handicapped people get it, too. It's the "undesirables" (of which race can fall into play) and those less able to defend themselves. Deaf people of all races are tazed and shot all the time and it's deemed just fine and dandy because apparently sign language is VERY threatening.

  • Chili Dogg||

    Hey, look everybody! It's Austin Powers and he just woke up from the coma he has been in since the 1960's!

  • Chili Dogg||

    P.S. Welcome to 2017, Austin!

  • sarcasmic||

    Payne arrested her, in what appeared on video to be sheer frustration at having been defied.

    She's lucky he didn't shoot her on the spot. Failure to obey justifies summary execution.

    since then the hospital has implemented new policies to limit police access to parts of the hospital.

    What is the hospital going to do when the cops ignore the policies and force themselves into places where they are not allowed? Call the cops?

    They are public servants

    That's right. They serve the public, as in everyone else. Individuals serve them. Obey or die.

  • Crusty Juggler - Lawbertarian||

    What is the hospital going to do when the cops ignore the policies and force themselves into places where they are not allowed?

    Record them with their cell phones, because if there is one group the public loves more than cops, its nurses.

  • Lily Bulero||

    "Record them with their cell phones"

    More arrests for obstruction, then.

  • sarcasmic||

  • Hugh Akston||

    Which raises the question of the ratio of cops:nurses:clowns in your porn archive.

  • Crusty Juggler - Lawbertarian||

    I am related to like 500 nurses, so it is almost impossible for me to find one attractive, mostly because they are all awful, and I don't trust any of them with my life. Additionally, unlike BestUsedCarSales, I do not have an incest fetish, so that also does nothing for me.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I wouldn't call it a fetish as much a lack of all inhibitions.

  • Lily Bulero||

    Well, the question has gotten raised somehow.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Even better, hospitals have their own armed security. If a cop wants to start shit at a hospital, have four or five guards remove him. If the cop becomes aggressive, he must clearly be irrational, and a danger to himself and others. So a 72 mental health evaluation will be necessary. So they can shoot the cop up on Thorazine and then leave him drooling in a padded cell for three days. Also, it will be necessary to blood test the cop to help him, and make sure no illegal substamces snuck into his body.

  • timbo||

    Would be great if private security were given power over the cops in that situation. We could certainly use more of that on private property.

  • Paloma||

    What I could see happening in that situation is cops coming back...or even starting out with a SWAT team. Complete with tanks. Seriously.

  • sarcasmic||

    If the cops were confident that their efforts to commit illegal acts would be met with resistance, they would kill anyone who stood in their way.

    And nothing else would happen.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    Rent a cops making $6.95/hr plus tips are not going to sacrifice themselves on the altar of principle. Also, many are failed/hopeful cops, so there's a lot of worship going on there. Not gonna happen.

  • Arcxjo||

    Most of those are part-time fuzz anyhow, which is why the thin blue line doesn't bend for nurses.

  • Brother Kyfho||

    In the video you can clearly see one of the hospital's "security" staff assisting the POS Payne in his kidnapping of the nurse. I'd love to find out if there has been any discipline from the hospital administration for his aiding and abetting the kidnapping.

    So, I don't think that the hospital's security means much of anything.

  • mpercy||

    "She's lucky he didn't shoot her on the spot. Failure to obey justifies summary execution."

    If she'd been a dog, he certainly would have. If she'd been black, it's probably 50-50.

  • ||

    So does the roughing up of a nurse fulfill the narrative for those phoney baloney NFL players? After all, it's all about equality and justice, right? Or do white nurses don't qualify?

    Over to you intellectual paragons Aaron Rodgers, Pete Carroll, Lebron James, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry, Mr. Bennett....etc.

  • Crusty Juggler - Lawbertarian||

    It is a little crazy how some people responded to something the president said about them.

  • timbo||

    The cops should take a knee. There's nothing like a scause for a cause.

    Who are bigger complaining piece of sh*t pussies? is it the unions of all stripes or the SJW?

    unions have ridiculous advantages and protections.

    SJW have nothing to complain about. There is no inequality. All americans have access to opportunity and many minorities are afforded greater access to opportunity via WMBE construction or government contracts or Title IV/Affirmative action.

    The only true injustice that still exists is the unfair treatment of many black people by the police. Albeit it entirely unjust, a rational populous would have the balls to reiterate a discussion amongst the black community to challenge themselves to do a little introspection on that subject while we're are bitching and moaning about everyone' lot in life.
    Another sign of a civilization's decline is the insanity/stupidity of the popular discourse and culture.
    We had a great thing going here for a long time with the free speech and the free markets. Used top be kind of neat.

  • Tony||

    Black person being introspective on cop-on-black violence: "Hmm, yep, still black."

  • timbo||

    Tony thinks socialized medicine can work. not only that, he thinks a mixture of socialism and some capitalism can work.

  • Tony||

    You don't get out much do you.

  • timbo||

    You need some work on your jabs.
    Why don't you call me a trumpista or some other clear sign that you do not read what people say nor can you fathom the content of the discussion that occurs in the free markets crowd?

  • Netizen_James||

    You clearly don't understand that public roads, public police forces, courts and prisons, and the military itself are all examples of 'collectivism' aka 'socialism'. They are all examples of leveraging the economies of scale to provide infrastructure enhancements which benefit society as a whole - that's what 'socialism' means.

    Also known as 'civilization'.
    Have fun living by yourself on your own private planet Mr. Caruso.

    Do you really think that you have a 'right' to defraud people? To sell them powdered sheetrock that you've falsely labeled 'heroin'? No? So what's stopping you? Oh that's right, the evil GOVERNMENT and their onerous REGULATIONS! The horror!

  • timbo||

    Christ you are frighteningly stupid. Read some Bastiat, Friedman, and Hazlitt before coming on this sight to discuss. You will be mad a fool of.

    I believe they call you useful idiots.

  • Some Engineer||

    The usefulness is questionable.

  • Paloma||

    So it's the wonderful govefnment that prevents people selling powdered sheetrock that's been falsely labeled heroin NOW?

  • CE||

    Because private roads and security forces and arbitration services are impossible? Seems like only "public" services are exempt from getting sued when they mess up.

  • Sevo||

    Netizen_James|9.27.17 @ 3:29PM|#
    "You clearly don't understand that public roads, public police forces, courts and prisons, and the military itself are all examples of 'collectivism' aka 'socialism'."

    Oh! I'm sure no one here ever read such a revelation from a lefty twit before!

  • DenverJ||

    Or perhaps he was referring to the fact that, although a minority of the population, black people commit more crimes, including violent crimes, and that their victims are overwhelming their fellow black Americans, whose lives, we are assured, matter.

  • Netizen_James||

    so you're going to use the numbers created by racist cops arresting black people and making up bogus charges in order to justify the arrest in order to 'prove' that black people commit more crimes? How frightfully circular.

    Far more white people sell illegal drugs than black people do. But black people are the ones who get arrested for it. Cops don't bother with lillywhite middle-class suburbia, which is where the vast majority of illegal drugs are sold across kitchen tables.

    See http://www.politifact.com /truth-o-meter/statements/2016/feb/26 /hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says- blacks-more-likely-be-arreste/

    and https://www.drugpolicy.org /issues/race-and-drug-war

    ...if you're interested in facts.

    Otherwise, enjoy your comforting but racist myths.

  • mpercy||

    I'm going to go out on a limb an assume murder is not a crime that cops go out looking for, as compared to say drug busts. Even so blacks are vastly disproportionately overrepresented in both victim and offender categories, comprising 12.3% of the population but committing over 52% of all murders.

    https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

    Murder rates

    Percent of Rate per 100,000 population
    Race Victims Offenders Population Vittim Offender
    White 50.9% 45.8% 83.7% 4.7 4.8
    Black 46.9% 52.2% 12.3% 29.6 36.9
    Other 2.1% 2.0% 4.0% 4.1 4.4

  • Brother Kyfho||

    Aaaaaaaand thank you LBJ, for creating the welfare state that allows women to kick fathers out of their kids lives!!!! (Yay, Hypergamy!!!)

    therationalmale.com

  • Sevo||

    "Far more white people sell illegal drugs than black people do. But black people are the ones who get arrested for it. Cops don't bother with lillywhite middle-class suburbia, which is where the vast majority of illegal drugs are sold across kitchen tables."

    Like the catostrophist 'warmers', you'd do better if you stuck with facts.
    Your first link isn't a link, but the second, unlike your claim, states that blacks and whites use and sell drugs at about the same rate.
    So, I guess you make up shit to enjoy your racist myths?

  • freedomlover||

    Your comments are dated. It's not WMBE or MBWBE's anymore. It's just plain old DBE (disadvantaged business enterprises).

    Get your government anachronisms for their euphemistic programs straight please.

    (I did our agency's DBE reports until recently.)

    Hint: If you are a white male, before you start a business, marry or partner with a DBE eligible and use him/her as the "front' owner. It's worth at least 100 brownie points on any government contract. A female DBE doubles that.

  • Mickey Rat||

    I suppose they would not be pariahs if the video had not been released offering definitive proof that they arrested a nurse for not complying with an illegal demand, but I think the problem may be the illegal demand itself and treating refusing it as a crime.

    This is what unions do, like criminal defense attorney's they make ethically questionable arguments because they are often protecting the interests of ethically bad people.

  • freedomlover||

    Attorneys and cops can't outright lie with impunity in their quest to make their case. They're not limited to only unethical behavior.

  • Longtobefree||

    "Rather we are solely concerned... with the 'investigatory process' which we believe has been corrupted."

    More detail please, on how the truth corrupts the investigatory process.

  • Some Engineer||

    The truth only affects the process if the wrong people have the truth.

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    That stood out to me. The irony of someone complaining about a corrupted investigatory process because of actual video showing how the officers worked hard to illegally extract evidence by force is mind blowing.

    Is he too stupid to realize what he said? Or does expect that we are?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    This is what government transparency should look like.

    Thanks Obama and Boooosh.

  • Tony||

    Body cam footage never stopped them from getting acquitted before.

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    I hate when Tony makes a salient point. Grudgingly, I concur.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "Many in the public have the unfortunate perception that this incident would not have been handled appropriately had it not been for the release of the video by Ms. Wubbels' attorney two weeks ago. This is not true," [Salt Lake City Mayor Jackie] Biskupski said.

    Police officials met with Wubbels and University Hospital officials to discuss what went wrong. Payne and Tracy, however, were not placed on leave until the day after the video was released, a step Biskupski has said should have happened sooner.

    So, there you have it. Any of you people who think the investigation wouldn't have escalated without public release of the video evidence, you're just dead wrong. This department holds their officers to account.

  • timbo||

    How can I get paid vacation for telling my customers in effect; "f*ck off" and sometimes I might shoot them?

  • Paul L.||

    Biskupski is lying.
    I would guess Salt Lake City police planned on waiting for this to blow over quietly supporting Officer Payne and LT Tracy, go into Bunker mode saying nothing and try to settle this behind the scenes.

    They gave the bodycam evidence to Alex Wubbels because they believed the officers did not wrong and the "investigation" was not or less over.

    The public backlash "unfairly tainted" the "investigation" in that they could exonerate Officer Payne and LT Tracy without generating more.

    I will guess they will keep their heads down and Salt Lake City Police Chief Mike Brown will give them a reprimand and dismiss this as a training issue in a couple of months,.

  • Netizen_James||

    So you folks all support BlackLivesMatter and are against the racist police infringing on the rights of black people, right?

  • timbo||

    BLM is just a reincarnation of the extortion racket that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton perfected.

  • SHAFAR NULLIFIDIAN||

    Extortion racket? Let me think about that for a moment.... Feigned victimization - demand for reparations.... Hmmm....
    It's enough to one a serious case of the Heebies jeebies, ain't it‽

  • Lachowsky||

    I'm against police infringing on the rights of people.

  • timbo||

    This netizen guy might be another Tony plant. If not, we are surrounded by psychos.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Yes. As I outlined above, BLM is taking one of the most incisive stands against cop-friendly union provisions, by going to the heart of what gives them power:

    Here are some of the smart things they're trying to accomplish :

    Remove barriers to effective misconduct investigations and civilian oversight

    Remove contract provisions, local policies, and provisions in state Law Enforcement Officers' Bills of Rights laws that:

    allow officers to wait 48 hours or more before being interrogated after an incident
    prevent investigators from pursuing other cases of misconduct revealed during an investigation
    prevent an officer's name or picture from being released to the public
    prohibit civilians from having the power to discipline, subpoena or interrogate police officers
    state that the Police Chief has the sole authority to discipline police officers
    enable officers to appeal a disciplinary decision to a hearing board of other police officers
    enable officers to use the contract grievance process to have an outside arbitrator reverse disciplinary decisions and reinstate officers who have committed misconduct
    prevent an officer from being investigated for an incident that happened 100 or more days prior
    allow an officer to choose not to take a lie detector test without being punished, require the civilian who is accusing that officer of misconduct to pass a lie detector first, or prevent the officer's test results from being considered as evidence of misconduct

  • Lily Bulero||

    Which parts of black lives matter, the ones calling for curtailment of unjust police privileges, or the ones who take out their grievances on commuters, their country's flag, etc? It's really a broad-based movement.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Well, it seemed to work for these guys, so maybe they thought, what the hell?

    BUNKERVILLE — More than 100 head of Cliven Bundy's confiscated cattle were released from a corral outside of Mesquite after a 20-minute standoff between angry and armed ranchers and law enforcement officers Saturday.
    With rifles pointing toward each side and tensions reaching a critical level, federal land officials backed off and agreed to give up the cattle to Bundy's family and supporters.
    The mid-afternoon release by the Bureau of Land Management was hailed as a victory among supporters who had forced the closure of Interstate 15 after marching to the holding pen on the sides of the highway, although environmentalists condemned the agency's decision.
    The BLM, upset that Bundy has refused to pay about $1 million in grazing fees to the federal government for two decades, had seized at least one-third of his cattle earlier this past week in a raging debate that captured national attention and whose purpose also was to protect a critical habitat of the threatened desert tortoise.
    But on Saturday the BLM decided to halt the roundup, fearing for the safety of its agents and the public.
    Bundy was overcome with joy when told of the pullout earlier Saturday, and his enthusiasm caught on. A crowd just outside his ranch cheered as he shouted, "Good morning, America! Good morning, world! Isn't it a beautiful day in Bunker­ville?"

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    With the obvious caveat that one of them got killed and the others indicted, but small victories, right?

  • timbo||

    True and decent analogy. The Oregon and Nevada standoffs were both about the government either illegally stealing land or taxing people out of their ability to use their land.

    BLM came about because of entirely suspect circumstances. The ferguson thing was not an innocent black guy, the thing in Stamford FL was not a case of injustice on an innocent black youth. I don't know that Baltimore can really be solved as a gross injustice but probably.

    The Garner thing was real and terrible the Charleston cop that shot that guy was the same.
    Much of BLM's anger is founded on some long-time injustices but the second they foment riots and react like psychos and just target white people as racist, they lose 100% of their credibility. They did all of these things on many occasions. Much of what they have done has been rooted in hysterical hypocrisy.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    And the Bundy folks weren't reacting like psychos when they blocked the highway and then initiated an armed confrontation with the feds?

  • timbo||

    No. The bundy folks are nuts to even think they can challenge the Gov't. At least they were in the right on their points and had the support of even some local governments. They were not being Hippocrates like much of the black LM actions on many levels. Chiefly, many advocating racism against white purple, rioting and destruction and unhinged hysteria towards any discussion questioning their tactics. You are correct that many of these people that finally snap are kind of nuts but many more will be broken pretty soon.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    So you're saying the Bundy folks weren't reacting like psychos when they blocked the highway and then initiated an armed confrontation with the feds?

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    No, they were not. And if we want to discuss the Bundy situation it would probably be best not to hijack this thread to do so

  • Brother Kyfho||

    You can't initiate armed conflict with the Feds, it's logically impossible. The Feds are always armed and always initiate all of the violence. It's axiomatic.

  • L.G. Balzac||

    timbo, BLM here is the Bureau of Land Management

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    And let us not forget: Obama's DOJ investigated both the Ferguson and Baltimore incidents and found no civil rights violations. Baltimore was prosecuted by a dedicated black AG, so nobody can complain that fullest and best efforts were not made; nonetheless, three defendants were acquitted and charges against the other three were dismissed. And Trayvon Martin was not a police case.

    Look: nobody contends that police abuses do not happen. But BLM formed under an overheated and therefore false narrative (remember, they ran with the false report that Michael Brown faced the cop saying "hands up, don't shoot"). So whatever good may reside somewhere in their program it is, IMHO, outweighed not only by the falsity of their propaganda but by the racist virulence they project (if they reject the notion that "all lives matter" then I think they really have nothing more to say)

  • Sevo||

    "So you folks all support BlackLivesMatter and are against the racist police infringing on the rights of black people, right?"

    Leem guess:
    If BLM isnpt supported, we all must be racists, right?
    What sort of suking idiot does it take to think that line of bullshit hasn't been floated here a thousand times?
    Are you retarded, or just some adolescent who smoked a joint and had 'revelations'?

  • Sevo||

    OK, English this time:
    Lemme guess:
    If BLM isn't supported, we all must be racists, right?
    What sort of fucking idiot does it take to think that line of bullshit hasn't been floated here a thousand times?
    Are you retarded, or just some adolescent who smoked a joint and had 'revelations'?

  • Red Twilight||

    You are cock-sucking racist even if you supported BLM.

  • Sevo||

    "You are cock-sucking racist even if you supported BLM."

    Oh, look! Our lefty ignoramus reappears!
    Did you get lost somewhere? If so, please do it again.
    Fuck off, slaver.

  • DRM||

    So, you doubt opposition of Reasoners to police abuses. Are you new around here, or just a brain-damaged moron?

    Oh, wait, you've just:
    1) Declared public police forces to be socialism;
    2) Declared that the police are racists infringing on rights; and
    3) Declared that socialism is civilization.

    So you ARE a brain-damaged moron. Here, suck this gun barrel, and pull this trigger.

  • CE||

    No and yes. The police should enforce the law equally, and avoid infringing rights, for everyone, regardless of race or anything else. But that doesn't mean organizations protesting violations of that goal have my endorsement.

  • Paul L.||

    From the letter from the Salt Lake Police Association
    "The premature release of body cam footage is particularly demoralizing as it allows the public who have not trained as police officers to make what often amounts to biased and ill-informed judgments of the police,"

    The Police union excuse that only cops can judge other cops.
    People who have no idea about the job of Law Enforcement should not be deciding the outcome in civil and criminal cases which involve the reasonable officer standard. Police officers should only be tried by a special court composed only of Law Enforcement officers.

  • Arcxjo||

    Then the cop should never get to question a nurse's medical judgment.

  • CE||

    What about cops who are ill-informed about the US Constitution and their own state laws?

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    The two officers weren't even put on administrative leave until after Wubbels went public with the video footage.

    So the Union thug has a point. This never would have been an issue had it remained hidden from the public.

  • Arcxjo||

    If the film made the cops look good and the dead guy or nurse look bad, they would have plastered it on the news.

  • Wanderer||

    Case after case

    At one point, one judge smarter than average (and not seeking reelection) will hold Police Unions liable to punitive damage for defending blue criminals. That day will be a great, great day for America.

  • sarcasmic||

    Not really. The unions would win on appeal.

  • Red Twilight||

    Never when so many branches of government, including the SCOTUS are packed with Republicans

  • Fuck you, Shikha (Nunya)||

    Yep. Only one side sucks. I mean, everything wrong in the country today can only from Republicans. It's this kind of thoughtful prose that keeps me reading the comments.

    Dumbass.

  • Sevo||

    "Never when so many branches of government, including the SCOTUS are packed with Republicans"

    Ignorant lefty asshole assertion.
    We get those all day along, asshole.

  • croaker||

    Police unions need to be RICOed into submission. This one in particular.

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    Shorter: transparency is wonderful except when it allows you to look behind the curtain

  • Wearenotperfect||

    If (GRAMA) ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

  • Uncle Jay||

    RE: Police Union Complains That Public Got to See Them Roughing Up Utah Nurse
    Transparency about behavior of government employees is not a violation of due process.

    God forbid we have transparency on cop behavior.
    Then all the little people will be able to see for themselves what a bunch of miscreants we have wearing badges, carrying guns and mistreating suspects.

  • HenryMiller||

    "...has made "pariahs" of Det. Jeff Payne and his watch commander at the time of the incident, Lt. James Tracy."

    This should have made "unemployed" of those people. Or perhaps it should have made "inmates"--of the county jail--of them on charges of assault and whatever else anyone can dream up.

  • ||

    Payne and Tracy deserve to be treated like pariahs. Officer Payne engaged in a gross abuse of power, and without the videos, I suspect he wouldn't have been prosecuted. Unlike the police, nurse Wubbels is to be commended for following the law.

  • m.EK||

    Stephan Hartney might have a legitimate bitch that the investigation was publicized before completed. That does corrupt or is disquieting for the public and those involved.
    Now, Stephan, let's get to what the disclosure revealed. An officer with no bleeping concept of the policy and rules of due process that he is sworn to uphold. That officer physically abused and scared the shit out of a NURSE doing her job and explaining policy from the hospitals perspective! He also does not understand the OATH OF OFFICE that he swore or affirmed about LAW.
    Stephan?

  • Red Twilight||

    If only she was black, then it would not have been so bad.

  • Procyon Rotor||

    Your words, Red. Nobody else's.

  • jbsnc||

    Not disputing that early on unions were on balance a force for the greater good. Now, many unions are a force for the lessor good. Huge bucks in a Banana Republic ridden with much payola, bribery and intimidation to protect their own. I do not understand why effectively, it seems, the police are above the law. Tax payers shouldn't be sued for criminal acts committed by the police. Police should be tried for criminal actions.

  • Sevo||

    "Not disputing that early on unions were on balance a force for the greater good."

    Read "Meet You in Hell" regarding the Homestead Strike, 1892.
    You might not be so inclined.

  • Jacks61||

    My understanding, this incident happened in July. The nurse reported this to Police Admin several times and of course they didn't do a damn thing. So she released the video.

    I don't blame her one bit. You can't even call this a double standard. Cops are granted rights us peons don't get. One of those rights should never include the right to break their own policies. OR try to do an illegal blood draw.

  • joebanana||

    We need "special laws" to address this all too common type of police corruption, and abuse.
    Public hangings would be a good start. Just what penalties do those two sick bastard pigs face? Any? They belong in prison, and to have ALL of their "assets" seized, including pension, bank accounts, house and cars, just like they treat the public.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    It's good to be the king. It had damn well better be good to be the king, because.

  • Jake Robinson||

    The union wanted this incident investigated by _expert_ police officers who are brother union members. "Move along. Nothing to see here."

    The assaulting officer and his commander are still not suffering the not punishment of paid administrative leave. They're being forced to take full pay and benefits while they chill out as their brother cops slowly and thoroughly investigate the clearly documented events. "An internal investigation and a civilian review board determined the two officers violated department policies." No mention of assault and battery, obstruction of justice, violation of civil rights or any other related felonies clearly seen on the widely distributed hospital video.

    A state prosecutor was said to be considering criminal charges. Prosecutors hate to prosecute cops. In the rare cases when they do, they typically put in a token effort. Successful prosecution of a cop would be their last case as an ADA. No cop would ever cooperate with them in future cases. Judges hate to convict cops. "Slack will be cut for you, my brother GovCo worker." Defenders of the realm need not follow the laws that were meant for commoners.

    - Jake

  • Sparky123777||

    "A couple of weeks ago the city revealed an internal investigation and a civilian review board determined the two officers violated department policies."

    That cop didn't violate a "policy", he violated THE LAW and should be treated like the criminal he is.

  • TBlakely||

    I'm betting if the camera footage exonerated the police it would be immediately released.

  • Fuzzyedia||

    "The release of the body cam footage and information from the disciplinary investigation "has created a public furor which makes reasoned determinations difficult, if not impossible," the letter states."

    All over the country, prosecutors and cops regularly release biased commentary and extremely unfair video footage of perps to the media while trials are pending to pollute the jury pool and get that public lynching in social media and that pre-judged conviction they crave.

    I love it when cops and prosecutors start talking about "protecting the rights of defendants to a fair hearing or trial!" or "we have a Constitution damn it, we need all the facts before we judge!" because it simply means one of their own is in hot water this time, so deserves the full rights "mere mortals" in the general population are not entitled to.

    Hard to take them seriously when they believe the Constitution and a fair trial by jury only applies to them

  • Hank Phillips||

    Dear Fuzz, If thine eye offendeth thee...

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