Deplatforming Backfired
Progressive censors failed to suppress our political demons. It's finally time to confront them.
When Donald Trump was kicked off social media in 2021, liberal pundit Matthew Yglesias tweeted, "It's kinda weird that deplatforming Trump just like completely worked with no visible downside whatsoever." Two years later, Fox News fired Tucker Carlson, and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) celebrated that "deplatforming works," though she worried about the long-term implications.
"I also kind of feel like I'm waiting for the cut scene at the end of a Marvel movie after all the credits have rolled, and then you like see the villain's hand reemerge," said Ocasio-Cortez.
As it turns out, every major star gets a sequel. Trump is back in the White House, and Carlson has a bigger audience than ever before.
What we've learned is that deplatforming doesn't work.
In 2021, I published a video at Reason predicting this backfire effect, comparing the media ecosystem to Freud's theory of the unconscious:
Sigmund Freud theorized that when thoughts or experiences are repressed, they inevitably resurface in more deranged and damaging forms. When our dominant communication platforms seek to repress widely held beliefs and opinions, those beliefs and opinions aren't likely to simply disappear but rather reemerge elsewhere.
What we've learned since the Great Deplatforming of 2021, and the subsequent rise of extremist commentators like Nick Fuentes, is that the best way to exorcise our demons is to confront them head-on.
The Platform Wars
It's understandable why progressives thought they'd won the platform wars in the early 2020s. Remember when Amazon Web Services deplatformed Parler, the right-wing social media network? Or when Facebook suppressed and Twitter blocked a completely accurate New York Post story about Hunter Biden's laptop?
Remember when the New York Times' Kevin Roose wanted President Joe Biden to appoint a "reality czar," and for a moment it looked like that was actually going to happen?
Remember when scientists from elite institutions were shadow banned for expressing opinions about COVID-19 that turned out to be correct? Or when the Stanford economist and physician Jay Bhattacharya had his Twitter account secretly throttled for, among other things, saying that the lockdowns were counterproductive?
Back then, things were looking pretty bleak for those of us who still subscribe to John Perry Barlow's idealistic 1996 vision of the internet as a place "where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity."
And then, three years ago, Elon Musk bought Twitter and everything changed.
Self-described free speech "absolutist" Musk invited journalists to examine the "Twitter Files," exposing how the federal government had coerced private companies to suppress critical speech. That's how we learned that Bhattacharya's Twitter account had been secretly throttled.
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) Director, Francis Collins, had called Bhattacharya a "fringe epidemiologist," requesting a "quick and devastating" takedown of his heretical views.
Bhattacharya ended up taking Collins' job as director of the NIH. And Martin Kulldorff, a Harvard professor fired for refusing the COVID-19 vaccine, is now chief science officer for U.S. Health and Human Services.
The "villain's hand" Ocasio-Cortez worried about not only reemerged, but has a full grip on the levers of power.
Musk replaced Twitter's third-party establishment sources serving as "fact checkers" with the community writ large. When Biden tweeted that "the 28th Amendment is the law of the land," a community note was appended observing that the 28th Amendment doesn't exist. The New York Post had its account restored after it was vindicated on the Hunter Biden laptop story, although it did get a community note for sharing a fake bigfoot video.
The success of this crowd-sourced approach to fact-checking inspired Mark Zuckerberg to adopt a similar system.
"I was really worried from the beginning about basically becoming this sort of decider of what is true in the world," Zuckerberg said on The Joe Rogan Experience in January. "That's, like, kind of a crazy position to be in for billions of people using your service."
Community notes is a 21st-century instantiation of John Stuart Mill's concept of a marketplace of ideas, where thinkers clash, compete, and arrive at a consensus. It's a superior method for getting at the truth than simply trusting institutional gatekeepers.
"When people who usually disagree on something agree, they get higher ranked," Zuckerberg explained. "You're showing more information, not less."
The vibe shift was real. Banned accounts were reinstated. A different type of content began to dominate X's "For You" algorithm.
And people started to share their real preferences.
Private Truths, Public Lies
In his 1995 book Private Truths, Public Lies, Duke University political scientist Timur Kuran introduced the concept of "preference falsification," where individuals tend to suppress their unpopular beliefs to avoid negative social consequences. As fewer people express them, these "private truths" become even more forbidden, and many people end up convincing themselves to believe in "public lies" to resolve the cognitive dissonance.
Preference falsification "is the misrepresentation of our wants in the interest of improving our reputation to avoid being stigmatized, to avoid being excluded," says Kuran.
But once enough people feel free to speak honestly, those suppressed beliefs can erupt in a "preference cascade."
Kuran cites Václav Havel's essay, "The Power of the Powerless," which tells the story of a greengrocer who puts a sign in his window that says, "Workers of the World Unite!" in communist Czechoslovakia, not because he believed the slogan, but to remain "in harmony with society."
The greengrocer's sign "exemplifies a performative ritual that signals to the communist state or the communist party that you are going to play along even if you have some doubts in your mind," says Kuran.
But every once in a while, a shock to the system allows for widely held but suppressed beliefs to break through, resulting in a "preference cascade." Kuran points to the fall of the Berlin Wall as a classic case.
"Millions of communists were paying lip service to the idea that the communist world was outpacing the free world, and when enough people felt free to express themselves truthfully, huge numbers of others followed," says Kuran.
Preference cascades can occur in democratic societies as well. Kuran believes that when Musk made "likes" on X private, the "public lies" receded and people's real preferences started to surface. When progressives—including AOC—quietly removed the pronouns in their social media bios, it was kind of like the greengrocer pulling down his sign.
"Pronoun use is a performative ritual," says Kuran. "It is essentially signaling that you're fine with the 'woke' agenda, and to the extent that you have reservations, you are gonna go along with it. It buys you some rewards among one side in the culture wars."
The free and open internet was back. "Governments of the industrial world…leave us alone," wrote John Perry Barlow. "I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us."
Barlow prophesied that when "anyone, anywhere may express his beliefs," it would lead to a more "humane" world. That may be true, but free speech also means tolerating the ugly side of humanity.
The Fuentes Dilemma
Nick Fuentes is an unapologetic white nationalist and antisemite.
"Jews are running society. Women need to shut the fuck up. Blacks need to be imprisoned for the most part, and we would live in paradise. It's that simple," he once declared on his nightly livestream.
He mocks the Holocaust and has called for "perfidious Jews," "occultists," and atheists to be "given the death penalty."
In October, Tucker Carlson brought Fuentes on his podcast for a chat. Carlson didn't confront Fuentes with any of his past inflammatory statements or bother to probe him when he mentioned an admiration for Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, but he did push back against Fuentes' fixation on Jewish and white identity politics.
"What I do think is bad, just objectively bad and destructive, is the 'all Jews are guilty' or 'all anybody is guilty' of anything because that's just, like, not true. And we don't believe that as Christians," said Carlson.
Fuentes agreed that "as a Catholic" he is commanded to "love all people" but dismissed the idea that identity politics is a bad thing because "identity is a reality."
In the old days, YouTube would have pulled this interview down. Instead, it's got 6.7 million views and counting.
When conservatives criticized Carlson for his softball interview, Heritage Foundation President Kevin Roberts appealed to their tribal loyalty.
"The American people expect us to be focusing on our political adversaries on the Left, not our friends on the Right," Roberts said in a statement posted to X.
The Heritage Foundation's board of trustees and staff went into open revolt. Roberts ended up firing his chief of staff and apologizing at an all-staff meeting.
"I made a mistake, and I let you down, and I let down this institution, and I am sorry for that," said Roberts.
Senior Research Fellow Robert Rector, a 47-year veteran of Heritage, advised his boss to emulate William F. Buckley Jr. "You have to expunge all antisemitism—all of it. But that's just part of it. The other is, you have to expel the lunatics," he said.
The New Right, an Old Fight
In 1962, Buckley, who was the founder and editor in chief of National Review, famously booted the anticommunist John Birch Society from the modern conservative movement.
Buckley made his decision after the John Birch Society's founder, Robert Welch, theorized that "Communist influences…completely controlled" President Dwight D. Eisenhower, whom he accused of "treason," and that former World War 2 general and Defense Secretary George C. Marshall was "a dedicated agent of the Soviet conspiracy" who had facilitated the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
Buckley denounced Welch and the Birchers as "far removed from common sense" and worked to marginalize them for embarrassing the broader conservative movement with their unhinged pamphlets and for disrupting town halls, school board meetings, and Republican events.
In 1962, magazine editors like Buckley were gatekeepers to the public; on today's open internet, neither Roberts nor any other conservative leader has that kind of power.
That's why Fuentes continues to grow in influence, and his supporters—the Groypers—continue haunting conservative events and heckling major figures like Glenn Beck for their support of Israel.
There's no Bill Buckley to police the right any longer in the digital age, but another episode in which the public face of American conservatism acted as gatekeeper can help us to understand the hazards of deplatforming and why we should be thankful that cancellation is no longer so easy, Fuentes' newfound popularity notwithstanding.
Like Kevin Roberts from Heritage, Buckley had to contend with antisemitism in his movement.
In the 1980s, National Review writer Joe Sobran's columns called Israel "the most powerful lobby in America," and he praised "a little magazine" published by a white supremacist as the only one "that faces the hard facts about race," though he later clarified that he wasn't endorsing outright racism.
The neocon power couple Norman Podhoretz and Midge Decter accused Sobran of antisemitism in his critique of Israel, which Sobran says was just a tactic to silence him.
"I criticize all kinds of special interest lobbies, as most conservatives do," said Sobran in a 1986 C-Span interview. "The difference is that I've taken on several ethnic lobbies in ways others don't like to, the black and Jewish ones in particular, but also the gay ones and the feminist ones. Now as soon as you start doing that, you open yourself up to a kind of ad hominem argument that's still legitimate for some reason."
Buckley cut ties with Sobran in 1993, after he blamed Israel for America's entanglement in the Gulf War. Sobran said Buckley tried to portray him as suffering moral and medical "incapacitation."
Some conservatives also accused presidential candidate Pat Buchanan of antisemitism after he called the U.S. Congress "Israeli-occupied territory."
In 1992, Buckley published a short book titled In Search of Anti-Semitism, addressing the Sobran and Buchanan controversies.
"I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge that what he did and said during the period under examination amounted to antisemitism," said Buckley in a later presentation on the book. "Whatever it was that drove him to say and do it, most probably an iconoclastic temperament, I still cannot find it in my heart to say that Buchanan is personally antisemitic, but he definitely is politically so."
We should criticize racism and antisemitism when we see it, but Buckley's approach ultimately stifled debate on the topics of America's military and financial support of Israel. Because Israel relied heavily on U.S. support for its defense, Buckley claimed that opposition to that support is antisemitic, which is wrong.
"Isn't it possible to oppose Israel and yet still be free of the taint of antisemitism?" asks Buckley rhetorically, before answering himself. "In the absence of definitive military aid by the United States, the probabilities are higher that Israel would be extinguished. It will follow that any American president unwilling to support Israel militarily would be inviting the elimination of the Jewish state and its people."
Buckley's indirectness didn't help. Sobran rightly called out his florid rhetoric as too often "pure gesture" with little meaning. Buckley left the conservative movement with an inexcusable moral confusion about the difference between real antisemitism and legitimate foreign policy disagreement.
It helps explain why some conservatives today are disingenuously branding Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.) as an antisemite for his principled opposition to U.S. support for Israel or any other foreign country.
And it explains Ben Shapiro's past vilification of Ron Paul as gripping his pen on the debate stage "as he would the neck of a Joo." Podcaster and comedian Dave Smith, who also chatted with Fuentes on his show, told Tucker Carlson on a podcast reflecting on their conversations with Fuentes that smearing foreign policy critics like Paul instead of engaging with their arguments helps explain the emergence of the Groypers.
"I got to tell you, there's a little part of me that almost goes like, 'Hey, you said that about Ron Paul. Then you know what, Ben Shapiro? You get Nick Fuentes,'" said Smith.
Our Post-Deplatforming Reality
There is no contemporary figure of Buckley's stature to gate-keep the right. There's not even really a gate to close. An ungated digital arena results in messier discourse, but ultimately, we're better off without "trust and safety" teams attempting to manage the discourse with unelected federal bureaucrats nudging them to suppress politically inconvenient narratives.
And the "villain's hand" AOC fretted over has grasped onto the side of the building. Today, Buckley's enemies have largely overtaken National Review conservatism.
Trump's agenda looks a lot more like Buchanan's than Buckley's, and Fuentes is both a critic of Israel and an antisemitic racist.
Buckley sidelined former contributor Murray Rothbard at National Review over his noninterventionism, penning a snide obituary in which he called the libertarian economist a man of "defective judgment" who "couldn't handle moral priorities."
Had Buckley instead better engaged with Rothbard's ideas about noninterventionism, the evils of central banking, and the corrupting impact of government money printing, the modern conservative movement would be stronger.
In his obit, Buckley exulted that Rothbard ended up with about "as many disciples as David Koresh had in his little redoubt in Waco." Today, Rothbard's followers, including Dave Smith, have made him arguably more influential than Buckley. And as a libertarian, I'm happy to see Buchanan and Rothbard's case for noninterventionism taken seriously, even as I oppose the protectionist and anti-immigration sentiments along for the ride.
The marketplace of ideas remains as valid and vital a notion as ever in the digital age. But like in any marketplace, there are hucksters and fraudsters peddling harmful wares with dubious advertisements.
But what of the fear that young conservatives today are overexposed to figures like Nick Fuentes by algorithms that serve them nothing to seriously counter him?
The Tyranny of the Intolerant
F.A. Hayek warned of a road to serfdom, where well-intentioned efforts to expand the power of government to address social ills would lead to authoritarian control. Kuran warns about "another road to serfdom" that could emerge from the chaos of our fractured media landscape: the tyranny of the intolerant.
"Intolerant communities thrive in the presence of other intolerant communities, especially those intolerant of them," writes Kuran. "They exclude aggressively because they themselves are excluded. They hate because they are hated. They censor because their own views are dismissed, mocked, and suppressed."
Kuran suspects the rise of the anti-liberal right is a direct response to the censorious and dehumanizing attitudes on the Left, pointing to Hillary Clinton's famous "basket of deplorables" comment as an inflection point in the discourse.
Clinton "told Americans that their views should not be taken into account, should not been respected, that they're coming from some dark place, they're deplorable," says Kuran. "And it re-emphasized to them that, if Clinton won, they would have no voice in government. Their concerns would not be respected."
Kuran writes that those determined to "cleanse the discourse" through heavy-handed speech regulation "galvanize the very processes responsible for turning legitimate democratic power into dictatorship" by creating an increasingly zero-sum game.
"It's very dangerous for democracy because if elections turn into an existential matter, both sides are going to try to rig it if they can," says Kuran.
The intolerant thrive in today's digital "echo chambers," a well-worn concept that Kuran refines into something called the "availability chamber," which doesn't simply expose participants to likeminded views to exclusion of all else, but spaces that aggressively push out a "steady barrage of clips or opinions that show how terrible, how subhuman your opponents are" to "fill you with outrage constantly."
On the right, this might manifest in amplifying leftists who cheer the murder of Charlie Kirk or schoolteachers who say outrageous things on TikTok as if they aren't outliers.
Buckley worried that the John Birch Society served this purpose for the left. His biographer Sam Tanenhouse wrote that "the trouble [with John Birch Society founder Robert Welch wasn't his] actual influence, but his perceived influence. Liberals, especially liberals in the media, were taking him seriously—or at least pretending to as a way of damaging them all."
Fuentes is a similar cudgel against the right today, with The New York Times publishing nine pieces about him and the Groypers since September. Some of his popularity may be an illusion. One recent study of his social media presence discovered a network of anonymous accounts quickly retweeting all of his content, implying manipulation "by actors coordinating in unison."
Still, in the post-deplatforming world, Carlson is right that we can't simply ignore intolerant movements like the Groypers and hope they go away.
"I decided Nick Fuentes can't be cancelled. They've been trying since he was a freshman in college. It doesn't work. In fact, he's gotten bigger," Carlson told Smith in a podcast recapping their respective conversations with Fuentes. "He's the most influential voice for men under 30 in the United States."
Engaging with Fuentes is unlikely to change his mind, judging from his recent media appearances, and you can't deplatform him. One approach is to expose how immature and vapid he really is, as Piers Morgan recently did when he asked Fuentes what he meant by saying that "Hitler is very cool." Fuentes replied, "The uniforms. The parades. It's cool as a guy."
But the best approach in the welcome absence of aggressive social media moderation is self-moderation.
The Virtue of Moderation
Edmund Burke, the leading philosopher of the conservative movement, called moderation "the virtue only of superior minds" in a letter critiquing the outcome of the bloody French Revolution. Moderation "requires a deep courage" most especially when an "unthinking public" is pulled towards "splendid and perilous extremes."
To preserve our liberty in this unmoderated digital world, we must regularly calibrate our own "attention chambers" and beware the allure of "perilous extremes."
What are the private truths we dare not utter in the presence of the in-group? What are the public lies we repeat to impress? Are we exposing ourselves to the best arguments from the "other side"?
Here's a tell: Is your favorite commentator constantly talking about what "they" want to do to you? Who is "they"?
In the post-deplatforming world, it's easy to let an algorithm overserve us on what it's learned we like, which all too often is a disdain for "them." It's up to you to recalibrate it now and then.
Deplatforming doesn't work. So let's learn how to have real conversations and to defend our beliefs with reason, not by pointing out that the other side is so deplorably evil that the only recourse is to silence it by any means necessary.
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""Clinton "told Americans that their views should not be taken into account, should not been respected, that they're coming from some dark place, they're deplorable," says Kuran. "And it re-emphasized to them that, if Clinton won, they would have no voice in government. Their concerns would not be respected."""
Also something about no civility until democrats are elected.
It's deplatforming if they do it. It's censorship if someone does it to them.
"...Remember when the New York Times' Kevin Roose wanted President Joe Biden to appoint a "reality czar," and for a moment it looked like that was actually going to happen?..."
Yes, and unlike when Trump sneezes, I remember a pretty tepid response from Reason.
Sorry but the progressive censors ARE the political demons. The fact you even frame them as a sensible option in the headline/subhead shows just how far gone from reality you are.
Yes it is deplorable
+1
"Fuentes agreed that "as a Catholic" he is commanded to "love all people" but dismissed the idea that identity politics is a bad thing because "identity is a reality.""
I would very much like to consider Fuentes as wrong here, but why are people who push identity politics from the Left not as anathema as Fuentes? When you see identity politics as a positive for some groups it makes the argument that it is an evil when whites embrace it much less obvious. In our current politics, identity is very much reality. I wish it was not, but until it is universally condemned, it will be.
You expect the people whose very worldview is about creating weapons for themselves but barring them from their enemies as over the line to be honest about their beliefs and actions? These people reject objective truth so every lie is as valid as anything else to their framework of reference
No, I don't. But I would like people like Weissmuller to acknowledge the double standard before they can be considered honest brokers in the conversation.
Anti-Semitism is just a subset of identity politics.
Then there's idiots like MollyGodiva who claim DEI isn't racist.
The core problem is that government is too damned powerful and enables all these tribal politics. If government didn't have the power to meddle so much and redistribute so much money from people who produce it to people who lap it up like water, all these ideological parasites would wither away and no one would miss them.
The government created the identity politics.
It started dividing people through the census. People have to click the box, what race are you, etc.
Coining the name African American instead of just being American.
The assault directly against Martin Luther King Jr on the left and saying his dream has failed, etc. By reducing meritocracy.
Good point. I'm so used to knowing that government is the root of political evil that I sometimes forget to mention it.
"When you see identity politics as a positive for some groups it makes the argument that it is an evil when whites embrace it much less obvious. "
Identity politics can be beneficial to those struggling against oppression. It was nationalism that united the Vietnamese NLF against would be American Imperialists. It was the Catholic faith that united the Irish IRA against the British Imperialists. The Irish catholics are as white as anyone is so you can put that white victimhood narrative to rest. The truth is that identity, whether religion, ethnicity, language, political leaning, etc, can give solidarity to a struggling group of people with little to hold them together otherwise.
" I wish it was not, "
I wish it were not is the correct English usage. Subjunctive tense.
And it was nationalism that united the Germans and Italians against the plutocratic oligarchies of England and France.
And it was nationalism that united the Japanese against the imperialism of England, France and the USA.
And it was nationalism that united the Hutu against the Tutsi.
And it was nationalism that united the Israelis against the Palestinians (and vice versa).
Wait, what were we talking about again?
"Wait, what were we talking about again?"
We were discussing identity politics. Nationalism is just one variant. Religion bonded the Irish and Iranians against oppressive regimes. Ethnicity, language, sexual preference, political views etc have served the same purpose. Giving weak groups the strength to fight oppressors is a good thing, if you don't like the bullying and exploitation that stronger groups sometimes inflict. It has nothing to do with the color of skin, though for Americans, this is a tempting feature to explain everything.
Giving weak groups the strength to fight oppressors is a good thing
Read through my list again. I chose those examples for a reason. Every single one of those groups saw themselves as the underdog standing up to imperialist oppressors. Every. Single. One.
Granted sometimes identity politics can be used, even as a pretext, by the strong against the weak.
Germany, France, Hutus, Israelis, and Palestinians have all been oppressed peoples in their time. Japanese, not so much. but it was a vicious strain of Buddhism, loyalty to Hirohito as much or more than nationalism that drove them to calamity. The Nazis also showed the dark.
"...Giving weak groups the strength to fight oppressors is a good thing..."
Racism is racism, shitbag and it is never good.
And how is it determined whether whom is oppressing whom? And why should those being classed as "oppressors" accept that status and the collective bad treatment that goes with it?
"And how is it determined whether whom is oppressing whom? "
Follow the money is not a bad rule of thumb. England was a wealthy country with an Empire that spanned the globe. The Indians they ruled over could barely afford to feed themselves and lived in houses made of cow dung.
"And why should those being classed as "oppressors" accept that status "
They don't. The English saw themselves as the pinnacle of human civilization with a god given mission to strengthen their domination. Oppressors usually have some high highfalutin pretext to justify their wicked ways. The bad treatment is 'karma,' the most fundamental law of morality - what goes around, comes around.
Follow the money is not a bad rule of thumb.
That's just what Hitler said!
Only he said it with a German accent and a mustache.
So are the English oppressors today? Do they deserve to be treated as such?
Are the Irish Catholics oppressors today? Do they deserve to be treated as such?
Are "white" people in the US oppressors today? Do they deserve to be treated as such?
If any of those questions is "yes", why should they accept that status and treatment?
"So are the English oppressors today? "
You'll get different answers from different people.
"Do they deserve to be treated as such?"
Deserves got nothing to do with it. In politics, we're all answerable for our forefather's actions. How else do you explain these conflicts that can go on over hundreds of years.
"why should they accept that status and treatment?"
Taking one for the team. Showing some humility. Eyes on the big picture. Desire to see justice done. There's lots of reasons. There's also reasons not to accept, to rebel against them. But, I don't see it. A few fanatics forming white power cells, maybe but the vast majority of whites are bred to think of themselves as proud individuals, king of their own castle -white privilege- and to disdain the limp wristed collectivity necessary to win a struggle.
What team? What justice?
You are pushing the idea that children born after whatever history you consider wrong to be guilt tripped into accepting collective punishment for things they did not do and not be resentful. Are you insane?
That is an incredibly evil and anti-individualistic notion that will blow up in your faces if your side does not put a stop to it.
"You are pushing the idea that children born after whatever history you consider wrong to be guilt tripped into accepting collective punishment for things they did not do and not be resentful."
That's the way it's always been. We wouldn't have 'historical grievances' otherwise. That Faulkner quote is applicable: The past is never dead. It's not even past.
Your clinging to individualism is precisely the reason why whites will fail. You need to organize and embrace the collective. Expecting a group of politicians like Republicans or whoever replaces them to do the work for you will lead to capitulation and disappointment.
Ah, then why do you support Palestinian nationalism when it's them trying to exterminate Jews?
Because Trueman is.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
^THIS +10000000000.
Because they're just not very good at it. If they got a lot better, better even than Israel's efforts to exterminate the Palestinians, I'd probably switch sides.
And I don't really support Palestinian Nationalism. I prefer a one state, bi national state solution. All citizens have same rights and standing regardless of national identity.
That is Israel. The Palestinians are the descendants of those Arabs who refused to accept that deal back in '48.
It wasn't a deal if they didn't accept it. '48 was not a secular one state solution.
Subjunctive tense.
Mood. Subjunctive mood.
Tense: past, present, future
Mood: indicative, subjunctive, imperative
Would that I were never mistaken.
When you see identity politics as a positive for some groups it makes the argument that it is an evil when whites embrace it
much less obviousfacially absurd.FTFY
We've seen time and time again that where a political identity doesn't exist it will be created by perceived opposition by others who have constructed you as a group.
There was no such thing as a "Ukrainian" prior to Russia trying to dominate Ukraine.
There was no such thing as a "Libyan" until outside forces tried to incorporate the three kingdoms of Libya into foreign domains.
There was no such thing as "Native Americans" prior to their being put on reservations.
Likewise, if you try to organize society in terms of celebrating "non-white identities," you're also creating and solidifying "white identity." And it's an understatement to say that it's completely unrealistic to think that the identity group you're framing is going to be content with "and ours is the Bad One."
One might counter with the observation that white people invented non-whiteness first, but the solution to that is to go along with it when white people say "that wasn't such a good idea - let's not do this white/non-white thing anymore, because it's stupid."
Likewise, if you try to organize society in terms of celebrating "non-white identities," you're also creating and solidifying "white identity." And it's an understatement to say that it's completely unrealistic to think that the identity group you're framing is going to be content with "and ours is the Bad One."
One might counter with the observation that white people invented non-whiteness first, but the solution to that is to go along with it when white people say "that wasn't such a good idea - let's not do this white/non-white thing anymore, because it's stupid."
Very close to my two repeated phrases, for years, about identity politics.
"You can't divide society up into teams and expect me not to play for my team."
"The only winning move is not to play" -- War Games.
"On the right, this might manifest in amplifying leftists who cheer the murder of Charlie Kirk or schoolteachers who say outrageous things on TikTok as if they aren't outliers."
Where is the evidence that they are outliers? Or rather only outliers in being fully mask off?
I think common sense says those teachers are outliers, in the sense that most people, teachers included, would rather get on with their lives than wallow in all this drama. But the 10% of teachers who like wallowing in drama also like dragging in their fellow teachers, and the only way to be a teacher is by being a member of the wallowing union, which means not speaking out against the activists.
And the union is working to protect those so-called "outliers", which gives them mainstream institutional support. So, in that case, are they actually outliers?
Yes, they are outliers in the statistical sense.
That misses the point entirely.
No, I intentionally brought up an alternative meaning of "outlier". Anything wrong with that?
Yes, there is. Because it dodges the issue.
being a member of the wallowing union,
Janus (SCOTUS) ended that, at least in theory. Haven't heard how it's been working in practice in sometime though. I know some states were trying to weasel around that decision and keep public sector union membership mandatory or at least as difficult to leave as possible - you must show up on the the 29th day of Feb to the basement office with a tiger guarding the entrance in order to declare yourself no longer in the union.
The purpose of a system is what it does.
If you think that a lot of issues with police are due to a few 'bad apples', but the system protects them, it isn't just the 'outliers' who are a problem.
If you think that a lot of issues with public education are due to a few 'bad apples', but the system protects them, it isn't just the 'outliers' who are a problem.
"Here's a tell: Is your favorite commentator constantly talking about what "they" want to do to you? Who is "they"?"
Given that the UK seems to the canary in the coalmine, "they" are the David Lammy's of the ruling class who propose suspending jury trials for administrative convenience. Who sentence a woman to prison for politically incorrect tweet longer than someone convicted for sexual assault on a minor. For the EU apparatchiks openly musing about gaining control of the content of X from Musk in the wake of giving X a nine figure fine. That "they".
Let's not forget the "they" in the US who weaponzied the government against its political adversaries. Either directly with the IRS and lawfare, or indirectly by pressuring "private companies".
I'm glad you brought up Buckley's exorcising of the Birch society for saying that Eisenhower and Marshall were agents of the Soviet Union.
You know who else accused someone of being a Russian agent? Who's is/was/or will ever be the "Bill Buckly of the left" to police the movement?
So deplatforming isn't a rightwing delusion without evidence? And if it did happen, it was all 'muh private company'. When did Reeeason start admitting it might be problem.
Some of the greatest hits from the past:
Should libertarians cheer, boo, or do a shrug-emoji when a private social media platform bans the likes of Alex Jones? Matt "red wedding" Welch
I won't go so far as to say that Google algorithms aren't political ... but they're not political in a partisan or traditional way. - ENB
It should go without saying that Roku, as a private business, has the right to bounce whomever they want. - Nick Gillespie
Yes, they were oh so happy to work that "muh private business" angle when it was their guy doing the prodding. Now that the table's turned, not so much.
Then there's the joke about the statistician who drowned crossing the river which had an average depth of 3 feet. Ought to be updated to the political statistician who claimed the country's political sense hadn't changed because there are just as many "muh private company" idiots as before, even if they've swapped sides.
But, it is their private company. Don't like it? Then, start your own company, or buy it out like Musk did with Xitter.
Why does your screenshot only display right wing 'demons'? There are plenty of loud and proud commies you could show.
I notable one is Hasan Piker, dog shocker extraordinaire.
Leftist hate and racism for 1000, Alex.
What is, The democrats say they are not looking back is part of the distractions and how they are trying to avoid admitting their failures and being held accountable for harming America through their policies and hateful rhetoric?
beware the allure of "perilous extremes."
This sounds great until you take 2 seconds to understand that everyone believes their opponents are pushing "perilous extremes"
To me, your support of the income tax, public schools, funding Israel, the existence of the FDA, regulating crypto, and the infinite Fed money machine are "perilous extremes"
Ah, no, those are libertarian positions, and not applicable here.
Fire KMW and MW.
Get out of DC and NYC.
Publish some libertarian content.
When the sports writer publishes the most constant libertarian content, something's gone awry.
I attribute what you're calling "support" as, instead, since we can't seem to get rid of "the income tax, public schools, funding Israel, the existence of the FDA" we can, perhaps, at least make them less dangerous. Letting perfection become the enemy of "the good" as it were.
I hear the left talk about the future 'backlash' to the Far Right.
And all I can think is 'my brother's in Christ, Fuentes *is the backlash*!'
This commentariat is a near-perfect example of attempts to suppress the unpopular opinions. I long ago gave up trying to respond to mindless ad homs by extremists here with more logic. I let the idiots here speak for themselves and hope those who still have a mind with which to reason see the vapid attacks for what they are: absence of facts or logic and group-cancel kiddies.
Facts and logic are not at the bottom of the issues that divide us. Moral compass, up bringing and emotional gut feeling are what separates us on issues like abortion, gun violence, immigration, and almost everything else. Facts and logic can sway us, but it's perhaps the exception.
For people who take their politics seriously, the less energy expended on pointless arguing means more time for organizing and building solidarity to further your chosen cause.
And here's an example, right on time.
I’m confused, are we for censoring and deplatforming, or not? And Why is it only those on the right whose odious views we have to worry about?
Sobran, Buchanan, and Paul were all correct to oppose the neocons.
They are all outcasts on the margin. Correctness of views is (was) never enough. Successful Politics needs money, organization and some charisma.
Yes.
Yet, goofy slang aside, all panhandle sucker votes on the same force-initiating superstitious platform.
"And Why is it only those on the right whose odious views we have to worry about?"
The right has largely come around to accept the positions of the left. Progressive taxation, publicly funded schools, transport, communications - Maybe half of the demands in Marx's Communist Manifesto are taken for granted by today's conservatives.
" Why is it only those on the right whose odious views we have to worry about?"
Because odious views are odious.
Almost all leftist views are odious, but aren’t acknowledged as such
If a rightist can't acknowledge the odiousness of leftist views then nobody can.
To avoid deplatforming don't platform in the first place.
But seriously, Fuentes is more popular than ever and you note that Carlson interviewed him and the times wrote about him 9 times since September. Seems like platforming isn't helping either.
How about this. You don't platform people who are grifters and whose argumentative style is one of shock and clickbaiting. Nor should you platform people who have grossly immoral views. It's just a moral stance. No tactics, just good morality.
Or, if deplaforming is bad then maybe Reason will allow Fuentes to publish editorials on their site?
Pimping for the communist, ku-klux and nationalsocialist factions comprising MOST of the looter kleptocracy is not what Reason is for. For THAT there's 99 & 44/100% of all teevee and birdcage liner. 2016 revealed us as the only 3% of the voters able to read, write and reason. Since then the Jesus Caucus has been their Trojan Hearse to kill off even that remaining evidence of individual rights. OF COURSE they plan to infiltrate Reason next. It's what Molotov and Ribbentrop would do.
Stop being an naive idiot. Nick Fuentes entire stick is to rankle the sensitivities of the woke crowd that pushed political correctness down everyone's throats. Nick Fuentes is the equal and opposite reaction and with age he appears to have mellowed a bit.
What you fools can't seem to grasp, it that he is purposely pushing your buttons because your buttons are idiotic. Much like the current idiocy from the likes of Ben Shapiro who believes that anything short of complete capitulation and subservience to Israel is antisemitic. The reality is that wanton killing of innocent children is wrong no mater who does the killing. This includes Israel and every other country on this entire world.
The crimes of the father should not reflect upon the son, although I've heard plenty of comments by the supporters of Israel that dehumanizes every Palestinian and sounds eerily similar to supremacist ideas except its Jewish supremacy.
At one time I was a huge supported of Israel, but two years of what can reasonably be claimed as a genocide over a one day attack. A month or even two months would have been one thing, but two years is beyond excessive. The actions of Israel have opened my eyes.
I don't have issues with Jewish people or the Jewish faith, but I do have issues with the Israeli government and the actions they have taken. I am not antisemitic, but perhaps not fond of Zionism. Mostly I'm extremely disappointed of Israel as I expected better from them and they have become the very essence of what they endured during WWII. Obviously they didn't learn the lessons from their suffering as they are inflicting similar atrocities on other people solely based on their ethnicity.
Back to the main point, I would much rather have the entire gambit of ideas out in the open where several billion people can decide just how crazy any idea or notion is, than having a select few decide what is acceptable. For one these ruling elitists get corrupted with power and don't reflect reality. We know this because this is the system we currently have and these corrupt ruling elitists are they very powers that people like Nick Fuentes are trolling.
" I would much rather have the entire gambit of ideas out in the open where several billion people can decide just how crazy any idea or notion is, than having a select few decide what is acceptable."
The elite gate-keeping what is acceptable literally birthed Fuentes. But yes, the internet should be a buffet of Alex Jones, Fuentes, Maddow, Joy Reid, Jake Tapper, Wolf Blitzer, Ben Shapiro, Brian Tyler Cohen, Hasan Piker, Asmongold, and Brett Baier, and we just decide who is a fucking retard saying dumb shit, and who kind of has a point.
I would prefer a world like that over the COVID era censorship mafia that literally silenced private citizens speaking truth, and oh noeeees I have to hear Fuentes making a Jew joke, or Joy Reid making a faggot joke, or Jordan Klepper implying that Maga folks have subhuman intelligence, or Douglas Murray doing the same to left wingers.
Let the flowers bloom and we decide whats pretty
Had not read the book until now; strongly suggest Sowell's "A Conflict of Visions".
The contrast, in his view is between those who accept humanity as it is and find ways to entice humans to activities most beneficial to society, always accepting there are trade-offs.
The other assumes humanity is "perfectible" (whatever that might mean if only hoi polloi would listen to their betters.
And, historically, the "betters" always manage to murder those who don't 'listen'. Always.
Show an objective reference substantiating any wanton killing of children by the Israelis.
I don't know anything about this Fuentes guy. Don't really care to know.
Is he the guy who got shot in Utah?
No? I didn't know about that one, either.
Whoever he was.
Outside of Reason, I wouldn't know.
The whole thing feels like manufactured-as-fuck return to form to maintain the idea that, after a mostly peaceful couple of summers of Brownshirt-style political activity, nationwide lockdowns, and a year of harassing colege students while calling for the eradication of Israel, the Evul Republikans are really the ones with a Nazi problem... again... still even!
KRISCHUN NASHUNALISM! REPUBLIKAN SOSHULISM! NICK FUENTES! NAZIS! NAZIS! NAZIS! NAZIS!
Meanwhile, ENB publishes yet another critical-point-omitting "libertarian" diatribe about how the Chinese (government?) should be to sell sex toys to minors directly, free of any French "oppression".
"should not been respected"
Besbol been bery good to me.
Good article Zach. I'm old enough to remember the Birchers and Pat Buchanan and Buckley and now Fuentes. I could write hundreds of words but suffice to say I found the perspective here thoughtful and fair overall. I'd like to see more of this at Reason.
So Zak's still pimping for Hitler by pointing to Stalin as the only alternative. Sad.
"The uniforms. The parades. It's cool as a
guygay."Fixed it.
And the BS sits here ........ Fuente's is 'right-wing'? LOL....
A praiser of Stalin, Hitler and Catholic Monarchy is 'right-wing'?
By what measure?
Fuente and the entire GOP is at odds; It's right there in this article.
How in the world does Fuente's get the label of being 'right-wing'?
The same way the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] of Germany did?
BS leftard indoctrination?
Must be that the straight-forward left-winger believer is actually 'right-wing' by the made-up BS "horseshoe-politics" of leftard self-projection.
i.e. "If you believe faithfully in [D] Bernie ideas - UR a right-winger!"
“It buys you some rewards among one side in the culture wars.”
Know what else does that? Riding a train. (If you don’t get stabbed.)
Yup. I learned that here.
Looking at Nick Fuentes vs Ben Shapiro. Both are supremacists, just different types. They really aren't much different in an honest analysis, but both are horrific based on your biased perspective.
Personally, I feel that Nick Fuentes is more about the reaction to Wokeness and Political Correctness and that he has moderated with age. There are no real actions, just words and not much more.
However, Ben Shapiro is effectively an Israeli propagandist who strongly attempts to justify a genocide. He is MIGA, not MAGA, a 100% warmonger, and 100% woke. There are very real actions and over 100,000 deaths.
In a just world, “Benjamin Netanyahu (Mileikowsky) should be remembered as a Jewish supremacist who was rightfully convicted of war crimes and genocide, spending his final years in prison.”
"genocide"
Yo, anti-semite, shut the fuck up.
Ben and Benjamin are not Semites. They are both of European stock. Yahya Sinwar was more of a Semite than both Bs combined.
Show an objective reference for that.
How many of those are combatants like Hamas? How many are as a result of Hamas hiding amongst civilians?
It's finally time to confront them.
We can't. We're out of practice for some reason.
Who decides who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed? Who decides who is an extremist? Anyone I disagree with? Let's just say there are a whole lot of extremist views here that I think should be oppressed.
A blatantly obvious side-effect of believing in the...
[WE] Identify-as *special* (?poor?) people get access to 'Guns' of THEFT
...in the [Na]tional So[zi]alist political ideology.
The battle-of which Identity gets the 'Guns of THEFT' and which Identity gets put at the other end of those 'Guns'.
On a dog-eat-dog path to extinction ... because 'Guns' don't make human resources (only tool in 'govs' toolbox). Their only practical/honorable usage is to defend Individual Liberty & ensure Justice for all.