Trump Allegedly Misidentified a Colombian Fisherman as a Venezuelan 'Narcoterrorist'
The potential for deadly error underlines the lawlessness of the president’s bloodthirsty anti-drug strategy.
Colombian President Gustavo Petro says one of the "narcoterrorists" recently killed by U.S. military strikes on boats in the Caribbean was a "fisherman" who had "no ties to the drug trade." That man's death, one of at least 32 ordered by President Donald Trump, therefore qualified as "murder," Petro declared on Saturday.
That much would be true even if the dead man, whom Petro identified as a Colombian citizen named Alejandro Carranza, really was smuggling drugs. Trump's new policy of summarily executing drug suspects simultaneously corrupts the mission of the armed forces, erasing the traditional distinction between civilians and combatants, and violates long-standing principles of criminal justice, imposing the death penalty without statutory authorization or any semblance of due process.
On September 15, U.S. forces blew up a boat that Trump said was "in International Waters transporting illegal narcotics," killing three men he described as "confirmed narcoterrorists from Venezuela." But according to Petro, the attack that killed Carranza happened in Colombian waters, and the target was a "Colombian boat" that "was adrift and had its distress signal up due to an engine failure."
Trump reacted angrily to that charge on Sunday, calling Petro "an illegal drug leader" who is "strongly encouraging the massive production of drugs…all over Colombia." He said the U.S. government would punish Petro by ending all "payments and subsidies" to his country.
Notably, Trump did not actually contradict Petro's claim that Carranza had been erroneously identified as a Venezuelan "narcoterrorist." And Trump has repeatedly acknowledged that his bloodthirsty anti-drug strategy could threaten innocent fishermen.
After the first strike on an alleged drug boat in early September, Trump joked about the potential for lethal mistakes: "I think anybody that saw that is going to say, 'I'll take a pass.' I don't even know about fishermen. They may say, 'I'm not getting on the boat. I'm not going to take a chance.'"
At a press conference last week, Trump again suggested that the danger posed by the boat attacks is not limited to drug smugglers. "I don't know about the fishing industry," he said. "If you want to go fishing, a lot of people aren't deciding to even go fishing."
As Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) notes, "Coast Guard statistics show that about one in four interdictions finds no drugs." Given those odds, it would not be surprising if some of the individuals whom the government has "assessed" as drug traffickers did not in fact fit into that category.
Paul is among the legislators, including Republicans as well as Democrats, who have complained about the Trump administration's failure to elucidate the information on which the president has relied to identify drug smugglers. By deciding to unilaterally kill criminal suspects rather than going to the trouble of arresting and charging them, Trump has dispensed with the need to present any evidence at all.
Trump claims drug traffickers are "murdering" Americans because some of their customers—about 82,000 last year—die after consuming their products. By the same logic, alcohol producers and distributors, who supply a product implicated in an estimated 178,000 deaths a year in the United States, likewise are guilty of murder.
Contrary to that argument, the government did not treat booze merchants as murderers even during national alcohol prohibition. And under current law, the death penalty generally is not available in drug trafficking cases, even with a trial and conviction.
The Trump administration also argues that the U.S. government is engaged in an "armed conflict" with drug cartels, which makes the boat strikes consistent with the law of war. That claim, Cardozo Law School professor Gabor Rona says, is "utterly without precedent in international law."
Geoffrey Corn, formerly the U.S. Army's senior adviser on the law of war, agrees. "This is not stretching the envelope," he told The New York Times. "This is shredding it."
Trump, in short, is killing people without a legal justification. There is a word for that.
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JS;dr
This guy needs his safe space :'-(
Sullum has a safe space - serving KMW while daddy Warbucks underwrites this CUCLL periodical.
Scumby Chimp-Chump NEVER tires of bragging about shit's ignorance! Scumby Chimp-Chump is the Ever-Ready Snot-so-funny Scummy-Bunny!
(Try saying that latter part really fast several times in a row.)
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⠈⢷⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀SSqrlsy eats feces⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⡼⠁
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Yes, yes it does. We should have it put down immediately.
Like this…..
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x-9YCU99Krc
Probably the most effective way of dealing with a feral SQRLSY.
Due process is leftist. Shhhhhh
Learning and education is definitely not leftist.
Pushing arguments by conjecture and narratives is definitely leftist.
Like Trump and his “armed conflict” claims? Or his “narcotrafficer” claims? Or his “Alien Enemies” claim? Or his “Insurrection act” claims?
Who knew Trump was such a leftist?
How is he wrong.
Trump or Jesse?
Like I pointed out, Trump is wrong in his use of various laws (the Alien Enemies and Insurrection Acts were my two example).
Claiming anyone is in an “armed conflict” with the US is laughable in its absurdity.
And there is more proof that the boats we have destroyed weren’t drug runners than there is that they were. And there is precious little evidence either way.
As for Jesse, he is wrong in roughly 75% of the things he posts. And that’s being generous. His fanatical paleocon belief system cannot withstand accuracy and data, so he avoids them like the plague.
I know you’re a total leftist buffoon, but you must be aware that Maduro is sponsoring Maronite trafficking to keep his failed regime financially afloat, right?
Nah, attacking Trump is important than stopping that.
YOUR description of due process is leftist, but then your description of eternal jury trials for each person illegally in the country until someone gets the verdict "correct", has very little relation to actual due process.
Trump never makes mistakes. If this guy was a fisherman, he stopped being one the moment Trump said he was a terrorist. And if you disagree you have TDS.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#aversion-therapy
Fu Manchu is a Catholic priest? Who knew?
He’s a sockpuppet account for the Soros apologist that had his original account permabanned due to posting a link to child porn in the Reason comments section.
"Nelson" knows. He's also one of many sockpuppet accounts for another Soros apologist.
The Soros worshipper that had his account banned donated to Act Blue, so must be a conservative!
You just love accusing people of being socks, don’t you? If we took your word for it, there are only about five unique accounts here and everyone else is a sock. Usually of Shrike, who wasn’t even posting here by the time I joined years ago.
Anyone with the slightest awareness of writing style or issue profiles (or a modicum of intelligence) would realize that there isn’t anyone here who matches me.
But you are basically Jesse’s little mini-me, spouting paleocon talking points and hating anyone to the left of the Proud Boys, so intelligence isn’t part of your repertoire.
That’s 75% of these guys comments with the other 25% mostly homoerotic comments about how they aren’t gay but they would happily serve as Trump’s bottom if that is what Trump desired.
Remember Trump’s very first military order was to assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends and Trump’s supporters’ response is that Obama killed a military age American male terrorist so Trump is free to assassinate little American girls.
It’s probably because so many of you engage in this obvious, and pathetic shitweasel behavior, plus the fact that you’re all proven serial liars.
Considering that, we really do coddle you democrats here.
proof or stfu
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/treating-pedophilia#aversion-therapy
What’s your bitch ass crying about now?
A narco President of a narco country claims something so it must be true. Forgive me if that doesn't look like any "fishing boat" I've ever seen.
They are fishing for something.
All the democrats posting here adore Maduro, amd would gladly sell out our country to him if it meant harming g Trump.
And why wouldn’t they? They’ve already tried to illegally throw him in prison, and even attempted to murder him twice. So this is nothing compared to the treasonous villainy of which they are capable.
You do realize that this poor Columbian fisherman has about $50,000 US of motors on his boat? Just one, new 300hp Mercury ocean motor will set you back about $25,000
It was never about taking out drug smugglers. It was just a lame excuse they made up. It was always about bullying Venezuela by killing their people with impunity.
It is murder, and an international human rights violation.
You’re such treasonous little faggot. Mos too the others here don’t want to admit it openly, but I have no problem doing so.
You and the rest of the Marxist wing of the democrats have to go. You should get the hell out before the others like you push things too far, and were forced to exterminate you. And make no mistake, your collective live are valueless compared to protecting our constitutional republic from a cancer like you.
These are extra judicial killings of people in the name of a renewed drug war using actual missiles based on only the word of feds.
Brave agents of the regime blow up effectively or actually unarmed mariners from their safely-out-of-range computer monitors.
And self proclaimed libertarians rationalize this as justice...And the ratchet clicks.
Libertarians support Trump because Trump is always right. If he says we have to ramp up the war on drugs, we do. If he says they're terrorists, they are. And playing world police is good when Trump is the cop.
Meanwhile, ignore criminals like Santos, Trevor Milton, and Ghilaine (not pardoned but in Club Fed thanks to Trump) because they're the good kind of criminal.
Is your bull’s name Fu Manchu?
I bet he has never gotten past 2.7 seconds
Even Rachel maddow is too stupid to try this argument shrike.
What is your weird obsession with Rachel Maddow? Who cares what she says?
And weirder obsession with shrike.
Sarc cares, and repeats her talking points.
Rachel Maddow has talking points? Isn’t she just a talking head on MSNBC?
Ask sarc why he parrots her stuff.
And your protestations are based on the word of a Marxist dictator and narcoterrorist thug who is starving his own people in the name of said Marxism.
So who is right?
I like my odds a lot better than yours, comrade.
JS;dr
"Allegedly" is doing a ton of heavy lifting for the rest of this article.
Incredible Hulk level heavy lifting.
“The dumber Sullum get, the stronger Sullum get!”
“Sullum is the dumbest one there is!”
-Jacob Sullum, The Incredible Retard
They learned it by blindly repeating hamas propaganda. And trump Russia propaganda. And trump is starting wars propaganda. And tariff apocalypse propaganda. And Biden propaganda. And open borders propaganda.
Mostly peaceful, membership cards, we're all in this together, this is just about public restrooms (early adopters on this one), don't say gay, Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there, Blasey-Ford was superficially credible, abortion is superprecedent, section 230 protects service providers, section 230 protects internet users, DOGE can't cut, District court says Trump can't...
At this point, it's almost intentional and/or "ironic". Like it's the inverse Jim Cramer of intellectual discourse.
It's doing the heavy lifting for Sullum's entire "career."
Your use of the word ‘career’ is overly generous in this context.
That is one hell of qualifier right up there with "people are saying" or "some people say" or "anonymous sources familiar with the thinking say".
"Allegedly" is doing a ton of heavy lifting for the rest of this article."
I came here to say this. This mag needs to change its name to "Innuendo".
There is no information provided from the fed govt the people being blown up via drone are traffickers so without confirmation of that; or confirmation they were just 'fishing' good journalist practice would be to hedge the statement. Seems pretty standard to me.
Outside of Maduro’s word, what information do you have to the contrary?
You just hate Trump.
Allegedly. Potential. Maybe. Might.
The key words for every Reason article lately. Whi needs facts when you can cry and scream with conjecture.
JD Vance is wrong about the alleged maybes.
Obama 2.0: We declare that anyone hit by a drone or missile strike is officially a narco-terrorist; so the fisherman was a narco-terrorist.
If the weather holds up like this, I might take my kayak out on the bay for some narco-terrorizing this weekend.
Supporting Trump's claim
Amazing how you lot are so cavalier about a president murdering people without even the excuse of a legitimate war.
You simply don't care. If Trump wants it done, it's legal. Fuhrer macht rechts.,
Was there an FTO designation? Did congress use their 30 day period to undo said declaration?
Hilarious you tried pretending you were at Oxford and could have been in the debate org.
“ Was there an FTO designation?”
That doesn’t mean what you think it means (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1189). But gross ignorance is kinda your wheelhouse.
Designating a group as a FTO doesn’t give anyone the justification or authority to attack or kill anyone. It allows financial actions, not military.
When hostile foreign powers are waging war against us, defending ourselves is always legitimate.
They aren’t.
You're delusional.
Delusional is believing any country is waging war against us right now, never mind believing that a criminal gang is waging war, and that doesn’t even consider the false equivalence between a criminal gang and the government of the country they are based in.
You are the delusional one.
Or, you could be willfully ignorant or just lying. Sorry I leaped right to delusional.
Dear Leader has said it, so it's true.
What a sad delusional fuckwit you are.
Vernon is nice enough to take the time to try and straighten you out. So show some fuck gratitude and thank him for his futile efforts.
Why don’t you head back to England, and enjoy the Marxism you so crave?
Nelson, given your track record for accuracy over all things political, best you just shut up now.
Then Congress should debate and declare war, if Venezuela (or Columbia) is "waging war against us" already. At least then there would be some justification for bombing boats of alleged narcotraffickers operating at the behest of this hostile foreign power.
Frankly, I don't understand how so many libertarians here, who otherwise would want an end to the war on drugs, and not to have any wars unless Congress declares war (as the Constitution requires), are supporting this.
There will never again be a war declared by Congress. It just doesn't work that way anymore.
You were fine with Obama and Biden doing it.
You voted for Bush/Cheney…that trumps everything!
I’m surprised our resident drunken retard isn’t in here shrieking “democrats did it first”.
Colombian President Gustavo Petro says
Let me stop you right there.
For pete's sake. Only Jacob Sullum would open his entire article by accepting full-throat the dubious claims of an openly hostile anti-American Narcoterrorist-Enabler.
You left out incompetent. The entire country has had a murder rate higher than Chicago's for the better part of a decade. The only reason it's not a failed state is because the cartels let them continue to run the trains, provide power, and deliver the mail... in most places.
That would seem to be a big problem with anything that follows, wouldn't it. A claim by that guy followed with alleged and then an entire article based on speculation. Does JS work for Vox and HuffPo in his spare time? Write copy for Ricki Maddow and Whoopy?
I don't accept what the corrupt President of Columbia says. He's just making a claim about the deceased. But I also don't just accept the word of our government officials saying he was a narcotrafficker. All we have there is the government's claim that he was. Neither side has submitted evidence of their claims.
Maduro is one of his heroes.
Is the contention of this article that Trump personally misidentified the individual in question?
Or did Nick Gillespie simply want the reader to know this was a painfully unserious article and so he announced as much in the very first word of the article's title?
Why would I trust a writer that has propagated every anti-Trump lie over the last 6 years to suddenly get anything right? Sorry but I don't trust your Hamas styled propaganda.
“MAGA extremist!”
-JeffSarc
Speaking of misidentifications, the micks sure had a night.
Apparently the benevolent government of Ireland misidentified a yet another muslim child rapist as a migrant to be welcomed with open arms in his "need" for asylum.
Embracing homicidal jihadis isn’t a centuries old Irish tradition?
Colombian President Gustavo Petro says ...
And stop right there. Jacob, you routinely dismiss anything Trump says, and that's at least reasonable from his history of trolling you and the rest of the media. Why do you trust anything the Colombian president says, when he is just another in a string of socialist presidents who aren't exactly unfriendly with the cocaine industry? Same but worse for Maduro.
Trump's attacks on these alleged narco boats are murder, even if they are likely to be ferrying drugs, regardless of whether any are real fishing boats. But the Colombian and Venezuelan presidents and governments are not trustworthy sources of information, and if that's the best evidence you've got, you're just buttressing Trump.
I can't tell whether you just copied me, or actually struggled through thinking on your own for a change.
Either way, polite applause for the improvement. Either case is a step in the right direction.
Yes, probably wise to distrust any government agent.
The friends and family of Alejandro Carranza may be more trustworthy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colombian-killed-us-strike-fisherman-wife-says/
Also seems out of place to pick on SGT out of everyone as someone that does not think for himself.
Well, sarc thinks I'm a Trump lackey who doesn't think for myself. Maybe AT does too. The (other?) Trump lackeys sure don't. I must be doing something ... different ... if so many think I'm the enemy.
I must be doing something ... different.
No doubt.
At least you’re consistent. Still stuck on stupid.
The friends and family of Alejandro Carranza may be more trustworthy.
Why?
You realize that "Maryland Dad" (not to mention Mahmoud Jihad, Luigi Fettuccini, Dequackers Brown, Jorge Floyd, Michael Ferguson, Trayvon Skittles, etc ad nauseum) has trashed the media's credibility when it comes to characterizing these scumbags for narrative purposes, right?
Let's face it, Quik. When CBS News says "He was not a narcoterrorist," the only thing we can take from that anymore is, "He was a narcoterrorist."
No, it's not one or the other. About the only think you can take from any news media report is that the news media reported something, and that it has little bearing on the overall news. In this instance, the report of what the family said is probably true, with caveats for mistranslation and context making even that cloudy. The report has no bearing on whether he was a fisherman or a drug smuggler or both. You elevate the news media's importance and reliability beyond what is due.
It's similar to your automatic knee-jerk reflex to trust cops over everything else. Just because you always take their side does not automatically make the cops into liars. It only means that your take is as worthless to the bigger picture as is CBS's take here.
In this instance, the report of what the family said is probably true
You have literally no basis for jumping to that asinine conclusion, except that it fits your anti-Trump narrative. You're dealing with a failed terrorist state. For all you know this "family" - if they even ARE his family - were bribed or held at gunpoint. By Petro or even CBS themselves.
It's similar to your automatic knee-jerk reflex to trust cops over everything else.
Nonsense. I call the cops out every time they color outside the lines. The only reason you think otherwise is because your bigotry defines those lines as "they exist."
Democrats always cherish thugs, rapists, looters, jihadis, and pedophiles. They ADORE pedophiles.
I haven't a clue what you think I copied or how you think I improved.
That's so sad. 🙁
That's so helpful.
You have to be your own agent of self-improvement, SGT. I can't do it for you.
Yet you think it your role to reward me with praise when I do something praiseworthy. Yet you decline to tell me what the praise is for.
It would be like giving your dog a treat or punishment once a day based on the net behavior throughout the past 24 hours. The dog won't have a clue what the treat or punishment is for.
Weird that you'd characterize yourself that way.
Weird, but expected. Sadly.
Weird that you only think in terms of yourself and jump to the conclusion that I would think of myself as your dog.
Why is that weird?
The priority should be punishing the unrepentant de o rats who puke up their treasonous retardation here.
Everything else is low priority.
Your thoughts aren't original because your brains exist inside the same sphere of influence. Pretty amusing to see you accusing others of copying your own completely unoriginal thoughts.
"Trump Allegedly Misidentified a Colombian Fisherman as a Venezuelan 'Narcoterrorist'"
Far, far more likely that Sullum is a slimy pile of lying TDS-addled shit who should fuck off and die.
>utterly without precedent in international law."
1. There is no such thing as 'international law'. There are some handshake agreements on how some nations should conduct themselves that most nations just ignore.
2. Pirates. China. I could point to a lot of countries that do what we're doing.
President of Colombia says "we really won '94 World Cup. Valderrama forever!"
Bloodthirsty. A new low for a regime bootlicker who we thought had reached bottom.
Too many "What-if" allegations to make any sort of ruling on the matter.
But TDS will make the ruling for the non-evidence in this article?
I get that this publication doesn't care much for Trump (and he gives them plenty of reasons to feel that way), but taking the word of a gutless puppet of a cocaine republic over our duly elected president is a new low even for Reason.
Reason contributors need to make the case for the legalization of drugs instead; otherwise, they're just exposing themselves as TDS-addled leftists with regular cases of Outrage du Jour.
The "case" for full legalization of addictive narcotics is out of touch with contemporary realities. Maybe that's why Reason doesn't care to present it.
Of course Trump is way out of bounds with these strikes, but we don't need a tinpot narco figurehead to tell us that. And anyone who thinks that's a fishing boat probably lives on the Eurasian Pole of Inaccessibility. You can be right about the key concept without being repeating the obvious bullshit from a Banana Republican who probably can't spell Oaxaca.
Look. Let's be honest. I don't trust Trump as far as I could throw him. But I trust Maduro less.
Do I think we should have interdicted these boats rather than shooting first. Clearly.
Do I think the US just decided to shoot a random boat for no reason? No. And there is the fact that classified sources, undercover sources, and all other forms of information would be available to them that would not immediately be made public.
Finally, this may be extrajudicial, but it's not illegal as far as I can see. Smugglers are considered pirates under the UNCLOS 108, and pirates are considered legal targets.
Remember when people got mad about the Harding St raid and the cops declaring the victims dangerous drug dealers after the fact to cover up for randomly murdering two people?
Remember that? Hilarious watching those same people trust the military to blow random boats out of the water because they were probably drug smugglers.
So you’re comparing a police raid within the US to stopping narcoterrorists in international waters that are under the control of a hostile foreign power?
Ok buddy.
International waters are under the control of what now? Oh right. It's Maritime.
Nope. Nothing in there that allows summarily obliterating boats at random.
Even pirates are entitled to a trial under maritime law.
That's stupid.
I guess these guys didn't know that:
https://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7325633&page=1
They’re not pirates. They are hostile representatives of a hostile nation (Venezuela). Maduro is smuggling narcotics to prop up his failed Marxist regime.
But you were fine with the CIA financing operations in Afghanistan with heroin money…and then you supported splooging hundreds of millions of dollars to the Afghanis that molested little boys…you fucking sick freak!