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First Amendment

Brendan Carr and Ted Cruz Don't Think Charlie Kirk's Murder Justifies Speech Restrictions

Rand Paul, who called for "a crackdown on people" who celebrated the assassination, was less careful in distinguishing between private and government action.

Jacob Sullum | 9.16.2025 5:35 PM

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FCC Chairman Brendan Carr speaks at a hearing of the House Committee on Appropriations Subcommittee on Financial Services and General Government | Michael Brochstein/Sipa USA/Newscom
FCC Chairman Brendan Carr (Michael Brochstein/Sipa USA/Newscom)

Since President Donald Trump appointed him as chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), Brendan Carr has deviated from his avowed commitment to the First Amendment in several notable ways. So it is surprising but encouraging to see Carr throw cold water on the notion that the government should try to suppress negative online comments about conservative activist Charlie Kirk in the wake of his assassination last week.

"I think you can draw a pretty clear line, and the Supreme Court has done this for decades, that our First Amendment, our free speech tradition, protects almost all speech," Carr said at Politico's AI and Tech Summit on Tuesday. While the Court has said incitement to violence can be punished in certain circumstances, he noted, that's "a relatively small category of speech," and there are "existing laws on the books that deal with that."

Carr has previously suggested that the FCC might try to limit liability protection for social media platforms under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. But when Politico's Alex Burns asked him whether such interpretive regulation seems "more urgent" in light of Kirk's murder, Carr said his main concern is not excessive tolerance for inflammatory rhetoric but the opposite: heavy-handed content moderation, which he sees as a threat to freedom of speech.

"Over the years," Carr said, "we saw a lot of abuses. We saw individual Americans participating in the digital town square that were getting censored purely for protected First Amendment speech, for diversity of viewpoints on religious or medical issues." He added that he was "pleased to see" a "course correction within the social media community," including policy changes at X and Facebook, that has "embraced, or re-embraced, the idea of free speech online."

Carr, in short, is still loath to acknowledge that the First Amendment protects the editorial discretion of social media companies, which he has erroneously portrayed as a threat to Americans' constitutional rights. But he at least seems to be applying his preference for less moderation even-handedly, which in the current debate about online speech and political violence means tolerating the "radical left" rhetoric that Trump claims is "directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today."

At the same conference, another Trump ally, Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas), likewise defended the First Amendment rights of his political opponents. "We have seen…far too many people celebrating Charlie Kirk's murder," he said, adding that teachers and professors who have done that "should absolutely face the consequences for celebrating murder." But those consequences, he said, should take the form of "naming and shaming," which he described as "part of a functioning and vibrant democracy." The First Amendment "absolutely protects hate speech," he noted. "It protects vile speech. It protects horrible speech. What does that mean? It means you cannot be prosecuted for speech, even if it is evil and bigoted and wrong."

That much may seem elementary. But it is a welcome reminder in a political context where even the attorney general seems confused about the constitutional status of "hate speech."

In a Fox Business interview on Tuesday, Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) alluded to the distinction between private and government responses to offensive speech, but his comments were ambiguous enough that an uncharitable viewer could easily interpret them as approval of the latter. "I was assaulted six, seven years ago, attacked from behind, had six ribs broken and part of my lung removed, and still online, on a daily basis people say they wish that it would happen to me all over again," he said, referring to a 2018 attack by an irate neighbor. "And by sort of making light of what I suffered, they are encouraging other people to do it. That ought to be taken down, and social media ought to be able to take that down."

Paul also noted that people who endorse violence against their political opponents could lose their jobs. "People say, 'Oh, people have a right to say things,'" he said. "Well, actually they don't necessarily have a right to say things. Many people have in their contract what we call a morals clause…or a conduct clause." And "if you're in the military, you have a conduct code that you have to adhere to in your speech and the way you present yourself to the public." Paul added that "I think it is time for this to be a crackdown on people," which he said would be "perfectly legal and legitimate, particularly if it's part of the contract process."

Paul's comments are not a model of clarity. But contrary to what some of his critics claim, I don't think they amount to a repudiation of the First Amendment.

Saying that certain inflammatory posts "ought to be taken down" and that social media platforms should be free to do so is not the same as saying the government should mandate that result. Nor is Paul's endorsement of professional penalties, which he emphasizes would be "legal and legitimate" if done under applicable contract clauses, tantamount to recommending legal punishment, although it may be hard to reconcile with conservative complaints about "cancel culture." The same goes for his statement that "these people need to be shunned."

More problematically, Paul referred approvingly to university codes of conduct that might be violated even by constitutionally protected speech. He did not acknowledge the First Amendment constraints on state-run universities that punish students for violating such rules.

Paul did eventually mention potential First Amendment concerns, saying, "We have to be wary of where it leads to, so it doesn't lead to speech problems." He nevertheless could and should have made it clearer that the "crackdown" he has in mind does not entail the sort of government restrictions that Carr and Cruz rightly rejected.

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NEXT: The Perverse Incentives for Snitch-Tagging Teachers Who Criticized Charlie Kirk

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason. He is the author, most recently, of Beyond Control: Drug Prohibition, Gun Regulation, and the Search for Sensible Alternatives (Prometheus Books).

First AmendmentFree SpeechCensorshipSocial MediaCharlie KirkViolenceFCCTed CruzRand PaulDonald TrumpRegulationBrendan Carr
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  1. sarcasmic   2 months ago

    If you think the 1A applies to people who celebrate this murder then you're a leftist Marxist with TDS.

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

      If you think the 1A protects you from the wrath of your employer, you might be a pickle brain drunk.

      1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

        Not really. There are certain situations covered under the U.S. Constitution and our Bill of Rights for which you cannot be persecuted, dummy.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          You’re free to hire those people at the business you own.

          1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

            “Those people”? Who are you referring to, fat dummy?

            1. Chumby   2 months ago

              You’re the rapist, the business you own can hire the folks recently unemployed due to their former employers not wanting people like that representing their brand. You’re talking with me, not obese and obtuse jeff.

              1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

                We’re talking about your claim employers can violate an employee’s Constitutional Rights, you horrendously ignorant bigot.

                1. Chumby   2 months ago

                  Who is we? The imaginary voices in your head?

                2. sarcasmic   2 months ago

                  Constitutional rights protect people from government, not from businesses.

                3. DesigNate   2 months ago

                  You’re really bad at this.

              2. EdG   2 months ago

                You're one sick piece of shit. Muting you now. Buh-bye, loser.

          2. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

            I regularly hire people at work . Is it ok with you if i fire them if i find out they’ve been making transphobic comments outside of work? Let me know.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

              LOL, the local bums giving you blowjobs for fent doesn't count, KAR.

            2. Kemuel   2 months ago

              If it's at-will, then fire away. That said, some states have extra protection for employees based on sexual orientation. In those states you can't legally fire straights/gays for making straight/gay comments.

            3. Super Scary   2 months ago

              You're acting like people weren't already getting fired for that.

            4. JohnZ   2 months ago

              Actually, some people have.

        2. JohnZ   2 months ago

          Actually the owner of a business can fire anyone he or she wishes for any reason. That includes mouthing off.
          The First Amendment protects you and me from government prosecution for speech. It does not protect anyone in a private business setting for being mouthy.

          1. EdG   2 months ago

            Actually, no. Employment at-will is limited by federal and state anti-discrimination laws, which prohibit firing based on protected characteristics like race, sex, and age; public policy exceptions, preventing termination for engaging in legally protected acts or refusing illegal ones; implied contracts, where handbook language or promises of job security create obligations; and the covenant of good faith and fair dealing, requiring employers to act fairly and not terminate to avoid paying wages or benefits.

    2. Andrewb610 2   2 months ago

      If you think the First Amendment doesn’t protest bad speech then you don’t understand the First Amendment.

      Unless you’re actively encouraging violence or inciting it you’re protected from the government taking action against you on the basis of that speech.

      Private employers are another matter.

    3. RJ Mathews   2 months ago

      Is this a serious comment? Of course it protects those things. That’s the whole point. Kind speech doesn’t need the 1st Amendment to protect it

  2. Your Therapist   2 months ago

    It appears to me that Charlie Kirk was an apologist who defended genocidal Zionist pedo tyrants but that his perspectives of late were evolving in what I personally believe might be in a position direction as it relates to common sense and a respect towards humanity.

    I could be wrong about that but he certainly didn’t deserve to be murdered.

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

      Funny thing is, you can't throw a rock at your kind without hitting a pedo.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15104765/george-zinn-child-porn-charlie-kirk.html

      1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

        What is my “kind”, dummy? Do you have anything specific?

        1. sarcasmic   2 months ago

          If you question Trump then you're a leftist Marxist with TDS.

          1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

            (Yeah, I know but when you’re workin with dumb-dumbs you have to keep the parameters simple and make them have to examine their baseless claims).

            1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

              Not that it matters but it seems you must be a blue haired progressive who's clothes no longer fit yet you still hang all out in Walmart.

          2. DesigNate   2 months ago

            It’s probably not the questioning Trump and more the ridiculous shit he says like “defended genocidal Zionist pedo tyrants” in his post that elicited the response he got.

            Just sayin.

            1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

              "more the ridiculous shit he says like “defended genocidal Zionist pedo tyrants”

              I believe it's SHE, perhaps the lower level groomer bringing the victims and not the actual perp...

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

          What, you can't read a simple link, you waste of carbon molecules?

    2. Fk_Censorship   2 months ago

      Not sure about Kirk's stance on "genocidal Zionist" but he held a mainstream Protestant American stance on Israel. However, for how much he preached free markets and freedoms in the US, he supported all sorts of unsavory Marxists and anti-freedom bad hombres abroad. I'm wondering if he was paid or just naive. Unfortunately many in the MAGA movement tend to support all sorts of Marxists outside of the US. I'm not sure if it's grift or a more sinister motivation.

  3. sarcasmic   2 months ago

    I look forward to the outrage when Trumpians discover that companies receiving federal money were quietly told to fire people with unpopular opinions.

    Haaaa ha ha ha! Just kidding.

    Because right and wrong are determined by who, not what, Trumpians will say it's like totally different from when the Biden administration influenced Twatter and Facederp.

    1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

      Apparently, you are under the mistaken impression that our government cares about a cessation in the production, procuring, and/or trafficking in dangerous or potentially dangerous drugs. Heck, as a nation and people we no longer even care about funding or even participating in genocide let alone other horrendous behaviors like the theft of wealth or life and liberty.

      1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

        Did you self deport and use the grand to buy a laptop so you can feel like you are back in America? Your projection of Venezuela is very telling.

  4. Chumby   2 months ago

    JS;dr

    1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

      Don’t be stupid, fat dummy. Use your words.

      1. sarcasmic   2 months ago

        I muted the clown. Between shitty puns he just calls people names and tells lies. He used to make salient points and have civil conversations, but now he's reduced to being a Jesse clone with a shitty sense of humor. He's best unread.

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          Poor sarcles gets sad when his lies and bullshit are called out. Maybe some hot takes sparcles:

          “The Dems did it first!”

          “It is the who and not the what!”

          “Trump MAGA arrrrgggghhhhh”

          1. Minadin   2 months ago

            Welcome to The List.

            1. Chumby   2 months ago

              #MeanGirls

            2. sarcasmic   2 months ago

              Funny how someone being such a disgusting human being that I put them on mute is considered to be a badge of honor.

              I used to believe that everyone was redeemable. These comments showed me just how wrong I was.

              1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                That must be why you keep “hardly ever” coming here. Lol.

      2. Chumby   2 months ago

        You’re the rapist, your batting average is zero. Keep swinging and missing.

        1. Your Therapist   2 months ago

          Well, at least you’re trying to use your words now, meathead chumbucket. We’ll consider that progress but keep in mind we’re keeping our standards low. Don’t want you to give yourself alcohol poisoning tonight in a fit of depression.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            “We’ll” = more voices in your head?

    2. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

      JS;dr

      1. SQRLSY   2 months ago

        VD;dr. VD (Venereal Disease) is some BAD shit! Go see the Dr. if you've got the VD!!! THAT is why I say VD;dr.!!!

        (Some forms of VD also cause bona fide mental illness… THINK about shit! VD is NOTHING to "clap" about!)

  5. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

    Well, the retarded gryoper theory is dead. All the retards here including many writers fell for it. Many of those retards in this very thread.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2025/09/wink-wink-kirk-murderers-bragging-texts-abc-gushed/

    1. Chumby   2 months ago

      But Blue Sky reported it!

  6. TJJ2000   2 months ago

    Wait what?
    Christian Britschgi just wrote a whole article about all the 'cancel culture' being conservatives fault.
    Guess Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and Carr are all Liberals now?

    1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Same style of argumentation as Destiny. What a fucking psycho.

  7. Open Borders Libertarian (formerly Sandra)   2 months ago

    Let’s do what Charlie Kirk would have wanted. We need to hunt down the millions of people who have expressed anything more than a cautious ambivalence about his death and put them into concentration camps. It’s what he would have wanted.

    https://jacobin.com/2025/09/kirk-posobiec-political-violence-far-right

    1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

      We know deep down this is one of your desires, to see normal people begin acting abnormally and criminally like the progressives and extremist democrats do.

  8. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

    Don't worry, folks. Joe Biden will be dead sooner rather than later. We will then see how seriously Team Red is opposed to "celebrating someone's death".

    1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

      Leftard Self-Projection.

      What you don't seem to get and probably never will is that 'Team Red' doesn't personally care enough to personally hate Joe Biden. It is the government abuse/theft Biden favors that 'Team Red' hates. 'Team Red' doesn't like government oppression.

      It's an equation of WHAT; not WHO. Something the left has a hard time comprehending because their entire party-platform is all about [WE] Identify-as gang-building.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        'Team Red' doesn't personally care enough to personally hate Joe Biden.

        lol were you asleep for the past 4 years?

        1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

          Your perspective of the past 4-years is nothing but a reflection of your own personal-bias canvas. ...because the left sees everything as 'Gang' oriented instead of Individual oriented. Precisely why they, the left, lobbies for everything 'Gang' (i.e. collective) oriented.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            the left sees everything as 'Gang' oriented

            psst: they're not the only ones

            1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

              Fair enough; just packing the largest bag of it by far.
              The religious right also packs a lot of 'Gang' orientation as well.
              Too many religious fanatics forget the right and the very foundation of the USA is about Individualism.

              1. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

                Religion is only left or right based on how much control it attempts or does exert on it's participants.

                The Taliban is Totalitarian and so is Iran which means they are extreme left and no where near the right. The Spanish inquisition was totalitarian and absurdly retarded which of course came, from the left.

                There are religious people on the left and right.

                Marxists, communists, fascists, socialists, despots, put religion on the right as another boogy man unless they use it for power which puts their use of religion on the left...

          2. charliehall   2 months ago

            "the attorney general seems confused "

            She isn't confused. She is a Trump puppet.

            Hate speech against the Right is no longer constitutionally protected. Because Trump says so. Bondi would be fired if she disagrees.

            It is remarkable that Carr has disagreed. He will probably end up the same as Susan Monarez did.

            1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

              Amazing how everyone is a 'Trump puppet' yet Trump has caught more static from his-own side than any other Republican.

              ...and that my friends; is how you know it is nothing but leftard Self-Projection.

      2. charliehall   2 months ago

        "'Team Red' doesn't personally care enough to personally hate Joe Biden."

        Either you have been living in a cave for the past five years, or are on Putin's payroll, or are a Useful Idiot.

        1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

          Tell us again how many witch-hunt legal cases Biden was dragged through? How many murder attempts on his life was carried out?

          You've got nothing but 'useful idiot' imagination going on.

    2. Chumby   2 months ago

      Biden is 82 and will likely die from some end of life disease after having lived a full life. That is totally the same as being struck down by an assassin’s bullet at age 31.

      When Jimmy Carter died, this was the story:
      https://reason.com/2024/12/29/rip-jimmy-carter-the-passionless-president/?comments=true#comments

      Didn’t see anyone celebrating that Carter had passed much less to the levels that some have displayed on social media regarding Charlie Kirk being assassinated.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Check out dol, shrike, m4e and others here.

        https://reason.com/2020/07/30/herman-cain-former-presidential-candidate-dies-from-coronavirus-complications/?comments=true#comments

        1. Chumby   2 months ago

          Open Society’s best?

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

          Funny that you post that comment thread. There were WAY more comments along the lines of "now it's time for the libs to demonstrate how insensitive they are by mocking a dead man!!!" than there were actual comments mocking him.

          1. Chumby   2 months ago

            You’re calling out that commenters correctly predicted that libs posted horrible things about Cain right after he died?

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

              I'm pointing out that the demand for mocking commentary far outstripped the supply.

              1. Chumby   2 months ago

                People accurately predicted that team blue would mock Herman Cain just after he died, team blue did that, and you are taking exception not to the team blue commenters that mocked a man that just died but instead the people that correctly called that?

      2. RJ Mathews   2 months ago

        Because Carter wasn’t a douche bag going around the country spewing hate and insulting people. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

    3. damikesc   2 months ago

      Want to place bets right now on conservatives dancing and cheering about Biden's eventual passing?

      It ain't gonna happen.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        I absolutely do think that you will see conservatives "celebrating" Biden's death, in exactly the same way that many of you label some people "celebrating" Kirk's death: not really celebrating, just pointing out many of the terrible policies that each man held.

        In fact, I will confidently state that you all will go even further: when Biden does die, you will demand that not only should every person of good moral character denounce his terrible policies, but that FAILING to do so means attempting to whitewash his terrible legacy. You will bash the media for fawning tributes without ever once mentioning how he censored people online, how he bungled the Afghanistan exit, how he tried to get people fired for not taking the COVID vaccine, etc. You'll accuse anyone who doesn't think like you on the matter as being a "leftist" in league with America's enemies and out to destroy you.

        1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

          Leftist [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] *is* an enemy of the USA (i.e. America's enemies).
          I have have ZERO shame in realizing that because I'm a US Patriot not a Treasonous Traitor.

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Approximately what percentage of Americans do you believe deserve the label "leftist", and why?

            1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

              Democrats ... because Democrats support Socialism.
              Why are you trying to make this harder than what it is?

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                Do you think Democrats are Nazis (National Socialists)?

                1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

                  Yes. That *is* exactly what they 'believe in'.

                  From Security for Socialists, Socialist Healthcare, Socialist Banking, Socialist Housing, Socialist Grocery Stores, Socialist Education, Socialist Basic Income, Socialist ?science? etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.......

                  Where you under some impression that isn't what the left is all about?
                  Perhaps you need a refresher by reading the DNC platform.
                  Or a quick kick in the head to wake you up to reality.

                  1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                    So you believe half the country are Nazis. Which is the mirror image of what the left-wing radicals believe. Congratulations, you're a mirror image of the Nazis that you hate!

                    1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

                      Stupid. I am completely against [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism].
                      So you call me a Nazi.
                      Like I've been saying all along. Leftard Self-Projection 101.

              2. charliehall   2 months ago

                Few Democrats are actual socialists. Even the ones that claim to be aren't really socialists unless you change the definition of the term. Are you part of the Ministry of Truth?

                1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

                  LMAO... "the ones that claim to be aren't really socialists"
                  ..and hell is just a suana. /s

                2. sarcasmic   2 months ago

                  TJ is proud of his ignorance. Especially on topics like economics, history, math and logic. He has made it clear that learning is leftist, because leftists control the places of learning. Therefore he refuses to learn anything, out of fear that knowledge will turn him into a leftist. He's a truly special case of retardation that I've never seen before. Any effort to cure him of his ignorance is a waste of time and effort. He considers it to be he greatest strength. So much so that he doesn't understand the reference, and never will.

                  1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

                    "If you won't worship leftist BS-Indoctrination you won't ?LEARN?", sarc 'smarts' 101.

              3. RJ Mathews   2 months ago

                People like you speak in broad talking points (given to them by others) and deliver insults as a defense mechanism against actually having to think critically about how hypocritical and idiotic your supposed views actually are. Deep down you know the truth, and you’re terrified.

        2. DesigNate   2 months ago

          “not really celebrating, just pointing out many of the terrible policies that each man held.”

          Yeah, that’s not what most people are doing.

          Edit: and if anyone demands “ that not only should every person of good moral character denounce his terrible policies, but that FAILING to do so means attempting to whitewash his terrible legacy” it might be because he was in political power for 50 fucking years. Vs Charlie Kirk being a regular citizen so his policy preferences meant fuck all to the rest of us (just like policy preferences or your policy preferences).

          But yeah, totes the same.

        3. damikesc   2 months ago

          "I absolutely do think that you will see conservatives "celebrating" Biden's death, in exactly the same way that many of you label some people "celebrating" Kirk's death: not really celebrating, just pointing out many of the terrible policies that each man held."

          We, literally, have never done that.

          Did we celebrate George Floyd's death? No. Breonna Taylor? No. Michael Brown? Also no. Trayvon Martin? Yup, that is a no again.

          Do not project your side's issues on others.

          We will say he is a terrible President, which he was, for as much as he was aware he was President. You will not see videos of dances. You will not see us defacing memorials, if any are made. We will not be walking around college campuses laughing.

          Compare Jimmy Carter's death to Charlie Kirk's.

          "In fact, I will confidently state that you all will go even further: when Biden does die, you will demand that not only should every person of good moral character denounce his terrible policies, but that FAILING to do so means attempting to whitewash his terrible legacy."

          I.
          Am.
          Not.
          On.
          Your.
          Side.

          "You will bash the media for fawning tributes without ever once mentioning how he censored people online, how he bungled the Afghanistan exit, how he tried to get people fired for not taking the COVID vaccine, etc. You'll accuse anyone who doesn't think like you on the matter as being a "leftist" in league with America's enemies and out to destroy you."

          I have not seen such projection since I saw a dude driving down the road with a bear in his trunk.

        4. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

          “..,,just pointing out many of the terrible policies….”

          “Haha. You homies deeeeead, you homies deeead.”

          Lots o’ prescient policy dissection going on there, eh Jeff?

          Lol. Jesus Christ, man, did you ever have any dignity?

    4. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      You've pushed the assasin was a groyper/maga for 5 days now. Any regrets you're a moron?

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        Correction: I've posted that the shooter's motives are, at this point in time, murky. He could be a left-wing radical, he could be a Groyper, he could be a gay militant, he could be just a disturbed guy seeking fame by taking bad advice from the darkest corners of the Internet. We really don't know.

        You, on the other hand, assumed from the start that this was an attack orchestrated by The Left and haven't let any amount of evidence change your mind.

        1. Minadin   2 months ago

          They aren't murky.

          https://x.com/CollinRugg/status/1968021136811364746

          We have transcripts released about his chats where he explains the exact reasons and motivations.

          You, on the other hand, assumed from the start that this was an attack orchestrated by The Left and haven't let any amount of evidence change your mind.

          What evidence, and what would convince you? Because it's VERY much not going your way.

          https://notthebee.com/article/officials-detail-new-disturbing-messages-between-suspect-in-charlie-kirks-assassination-and-his-trans-lover

        2. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

          Jimmy Kimmel? Is that you?

          Lol. God damn fat boy, you need to take a break.

    5. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

      LOL, no one's going to give a shit or be surprised when Biden passes away. The guy is old as fuck and has clearly been in the throes of dementia for at least 5 years. The meanest thing that will be said about him is that he stayed way too long in politics and spent his entire time on office grafting just like every other politician that stays in for multiple decades, and that the Democratic Party committed blatant elder abuse by indulging his thirst to be President.

    6. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

      Will he be murdered by a lunatic sniper? You know something we don’t? Lol.

      Hey Jeff, why do you suppose some people don’t like “mass transit or living in urban areas”? They must be culture war bigots, right?

      Idiot.

  9. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

    So, a participant at one of Kirk's events actually asked him: "When do we get to use the guns?" That is, when does Kirk think it is okay for conservatives to literally start shooting at the liberals that the participant thinks are oppressing him?

    Kirk's answer here is interesting. He doesn't agree with the question, and he doesn't endorse using guns to shoot liberals. But his justification is NOT that he thinks it is morally wrong. He never invokes a moral or ethical reason against shooting liberals. Instead his response is about strategy and tactics. Kirk stated that it would be wrong to start shooting liberals because it would only provoke them to oppress harder. He said it would be wrong to start shooting liberals when there were other, peaceful avenues available to try to get their way.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/charlie-kirk/pushing-election-lies-tpusa-audience-member-asks-charlie-kirk-when-they-can-use-guns

    So the implication here is clear: when the peaceful avenues are foreclosed, then according to his own logic, it's time to start shooting.

    So I guess you can also put Kirk himself down as justifying political violence, at least in certain circumstances.

    It is very telling that a man who supposedly had such a strong Christian faith never invoked God or the Bible to condemn shooting liberals.

    1. Minadin   2 months ago

      So I guess you can also put Kirk himself down as justifying political violence, at least in certain circumstances.

      No, what he said was, paraphrasing, if there are other, more peaceful means to oppose, then the violent path is wrong.

      And seriously, Media Matters?

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

        if there are other, more peaceful means to oppose, then the violent path is wrong.

        That's what I said. So what if there AREN'T other, more peaceful means to oppose?

        Also, isn't it interesting that his answer here is all about strategy and tactics, and he never states that it would be morally wrong to start shooting liberals?

        1. Minadin   2 months ago

          Do you even KNOW what the NAP is?

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

            Did Charlie Kirk give a response to that question based on the NAP?

            1. Minadin   2 months ago

              Did he give one consistent with the NAP?

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                I'm talking about how Charlie Kirk defended his own position, not how some other person might have imagined he could have defended his position. He didn't invoke the NAP. He didn't invoke any moral argument at all. He didn't even invoke a libertarian argument. He didn't say "don't shoot them because it would violate their rights". His argument was purely based on strategy and tactics. There wasn't even a faith-based component to his argument, weird considering how big of a Christian he was (supposedly).

                1. sarcasmic   2 months ago

                  I've never heard the guy argue, but Antony Davies at Words and Numbers said good things about him. And I trust them a lot more than I trust you.

                  1. Minadin   2 months ago

                    The thing is, the guy was out making dialog and confronting people with speech, trying to convince people that his position was either correct or at least reasonable. Which we need more of, whichever side of the argument you find yourself on for a particular topic.

                    He didn't commit any violence or advocate for it. I didn't follow him at all, but I was aware of him, and from what little I saw, he was not an 'Own the libs' guy - other than trying to prove them wrong, he wasn't actually trying to disparage or insult them, the vast majority of the time.

                    I would rather be proved (and convinced) that I was wrong about something, so that I stop being wrong about it, rather than ignorantly continuing to be blissfully or deliberately unaware.

                    I don't know who this Davies guy is, but it may be worth a look. I'm always up for reasonable contrary opinions.

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                      He didn't really "debate". He punched down. He "won" debates against poorly informed C+ students at community colleges. Yay him! He wasn't really interested in dialogue for the sake of dialogue. He USED these performances to generate a "Free Speech Brand" about him. That's all it was, a "brand". Not a principled conviction.

                    2. Minadin   2 months ago

                      So your defense is that the students debating him were intellectually stunted?

                      It's a bold move, Cotton, let's see how this plays out.

                      I'm still unclear how that justifies shooting him. It doesn't necessitate violence when you're outwitted in a political argument - for most people.

                    3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 months ago

                      He didn't really "debate". He punched down. He "won" debates against poorly informed C+ students at community colleges.

                      LOL, holy shit, this is absolute nuclear level cope.

                2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                  Hey jeff. Do you remember this comment?

                  chemjeff radical individualist 2 years ago
                  Flag Comment
                  Mute User
                  If the Right stopped spreading dangerous conspiracy theories, they would have no need to censor anyone.

                  Thats your full unedited comment by the way.

                  1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 months ago

                    Funny how you don't provide a URL to this comment.

                    1. Minadin   2 months ago

                      Do you believe that he made up the quote? Doesn't have a link?

                      You seem to be flailing.

                      If he made it up and it's not real, I promise that I'll be the first person to call him out. If it's a real quote, what will you do?

                    2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                      How does a URL change the quote?

                      It is real Minadin.

                      https://reason.com/2023/12/27/how-fdr-emasculated-the-black-press-in-world-war-ii/?comments=true#comment-10374212

                      Now jeff is going to rush to figure out how what he said didnt mean what he really said.

                    3. Minadin   2 months ago

                      Yeah I wasn't very worried that you didn't have the receipts.

                      Jeff will ignore.

                3. Minadin   2 months ago

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVzAk4kcFCQ

                4. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                  Lol. Wow. The selective nuance is off the charts. You make no sense at all.

          2. Chumby   2 months ago

            A NAP is what he takes after fourth breakfast.

          3. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            His job here is to convince ignorant morons like sarc here that the NAP means to bow down to the left and never fight back.

            1. Minadin   2 months ago

              Doesn't sound like Sarc is buying it.

              1. Chumby   2 months ago

                Sarc buys it depending on the who.

    2. damikesc   2 months ago

      Holy hell, you're citing Media Matters and attacking Kirk about what a person at his event asked?

      Are you THAT devoid of sense?

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Remember how jeff always claims he only uses valid and trustworthy sources? Never left wing.

    3. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      One of your allies on Piers Morgan said every conservative should fear being shot for speaking out. Discuss.

    4. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    5. Neutral not Neutered   2 months ago

      It's like you can't communicate in truth, you must spin things out of context to present the distorted version of the truth.

      CHARLIE KIRK (TURNING POINT USA FOUNDER): So, no, I – no, hold on. I – no – stop, hold on. Now, I'm going to denounce that and I'm going to tell you why. Because you're playing into all their plans and they're trying to make you do this. That's OK. Just hear me out. You started with a compliment, so at least give me a little bit. They are trying to provoke you and everyone here. They are trying to make you do something that will be violent that will justify a takeover of your freedoms and liberties, the likes of which we have never seen. We are close to have –

      AUDIENCE MEMBER: They're already doing it.

      KIRK: Hold on. We are close to have momentum to be able to get this country back on a trajectory using the peaceful means that we have at us. So to answer your question, and I just think it's, you know, overly blunt, we have to be the ones that do not play into the violent aims and ambitions of the other side. They fear – let me say this very clearly – they fear us holding the line with self-control and discipline, taking over school board meetings. They are the ones that are willing to use federal force against us.

      And I know that people get fired up. We are living under fascism. We are living under this tyranny. But if you think for a second that they're not wanting you to all of a sudden get that next level where they're going to say, OK, we need Patriot Act 2.0. If you think that you know Waco is bad, wait until you see what they want to do next. What I'm saying is that we have a very fragile balance right now at our current time where we must exhaust every single peaceful mean possible.

  10. rbike   2 months ago

    Why are they quoting a Texas DOT worker? That one guy was painting an overpass recently. Almost sure of this.

  11. Rick James   2 months ago

    Man, I thought Ted Cruz was literally worse than... literally worse than... I don't remember where he fit into the spectrum, w/Donald Trump at #1 and Elon Musk at the bottom, right below Josh Hawley. Doesn't seem worse than Elon Musk, maybe not worse than Josh Hawley, seems like he might be a close tie with Ron DeSantis.

  12. Rick James   2 months ago

    Charlie Kirk's murder broke the Maryland Dad of commenters, that is all. G'night folks, gonna eat dinner and not think about assassins and dead refugees from Ukraine.

  13. JohnZ   2 months ago

    The perversity of remarks made by the leftists reached a pinnacle with Illinois fat tub of lard governor, J.B. Pritsker who blamed Trump and all the hate speech from conservatives. Meanwhile he is silently celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk with his family and associates.
    In all my life I have never witnessed such horrendous speech and reactions as with the murder of Charlie Kirk.
    In my opinion, those people should be allowed to say whatever they wish, after all it's freedom of speech. But not freedom from the consequences of such speech as it simply damages the Democrats more than the Republicans.
    So keep up the good work leftists, you're helping to destroy the Democrat party, or what's left of it.

  14. VinniUSMC   2 months ago

    Suppression? You mean "actions have consequences", "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences"?

    Where's the suppression?

    1. Michael Ejercito   2 months ago

      I am sure everyone who cheered the assassination of Charlie Kirk love to invoke "freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences"

  15. JohnZ   2 months ago

    I just read the news that Jimmy Kimmel has lost his job. Of course Trump will be blamed for it.
    Better to keep one's mouth shut and let people think you're a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

  16. AT   2 months ago

    I have a simple solution that will make everyone happy.

    There will be no speech restrictions on mass/social media.

    Except for politicians.

    A major problem in this country is its people's confusion of social media with politics. The politicians spend less time representing their people and governing accordingly, and more time grandstanding for the cameras and microphones hoping to be what drives all the clicks and follows for the next few days.

    This then leads the people to believe that such grandstanding is politics, and instead of rational debate over issues and bipartisan solutions - we just get tribes constantly trying to one-up each other as fodder for their next election campaign.

    Barack really started down this intentionally divisive path, at the national level. Then Trump came and ate his lunch, and showed just how junior varsity the race-pimping community organizer really was. And all the while, they both keep birthing out bastard children like AOC and MTG and Ilhan and Boebert and Jasmine Crockett and Kari Lake (noticing a trend???).

    Maybe - just maybe - it's them we need to keep from playing Theater Kid in the halls of government, eh?

    Also - and admittedly somewhat more objectionable - I also humbly suggest that we impose speech restrictions - basically anything other than them engaging their followers as a fan-base - to anyone with a net worth between $150M to $2B. (That way we get most of the blowhard celebrity class, without getting Joe Everyman or the genuinely inspirational types (YMMV) like Zuck, Elon, Gates, Bezos, etc.)

    I think that'd be an overall net gain, no?

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