Trump's Blanket Clemency for Capitol Rioters Excuses Political Violence
The president drew no distinction between people who merely entered the building and people who vandalized it or assaulted police officers.

President Donald Trump has called the riot that interrupted congressional ratification of Joe Biden's election four years ago "a heinous attack on the United States Capitol." And even when he began talking about pardoning some of the people who invaded the Capitol that day, he signaled that he would use his clemency power with care. "I am inclined to pardon many of them," he told CNN in 2023. "I can't say for every single one because a couple of them, probably, they got out of control." Just last week, J.D. Vance, now the vice president, elaborated on that point. "If you committed violence on that day," Vance said on Fox News, "obviously you shouldn't be pardoned."
Trump drew no such distinction on Monday, when he granted "a full, complete and unconditional pardon" to nearly 1,600 people who had been charged in connection with the Capitol riot. Trump also commuted the sentences of 14 people who were still serving time for riot-related crimes and instructed the Justice Department to drop pending cases. Those decisions, he claimed, were necessary to correct "a grave national injustice" and begin "a process of national reconciliation."
Such a reconciliation is impossible when the president is willing to excuse political violence as long as it is perpetrated by his supporters. Despite Trump's insistence that he expected people inspired by his stolen-election fantasy to do nothing but march to the Capitol "peacefully and patriotically," he has proven unwilling to draw that line in practice.
On the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly described January 6 defendants as "hostages" and "patriots" who had been unjustly targeted for political reasons. There was an element of truth to that characterization.
The Justice Department was determined to portray the riot as an "insurrection," even though it mainly involved spontaneous reactions by Trump supporters who got carried away by their outrage at a supposedly stolen election. The government's misleading narrative, which implied a level of intent and organization belied by the chaotic reality of the day's events, drove prosecutors to send a message in defense of democracy by doggedly tracking down and punishing Trump supporters who had entered the Capitol.
Most of those defendants were ultimately charged with misdemeanors such as demonstrating inside the Capitol, "disorderly or disruptive conduct," and entering or remaining in a restricted building without authorization. The sentences in such cases ranged from probation to short jail terms. But because defendants who insisted on their right to a trial could have been hit with more serious charges carrying much more severe penalties, such as obstructing an official proceeding, they were under a lot of pressure to plead guilty, as about 1,000 had done as of last November. And in light of the revelation that FBI informants who entered the Capitol faced no punishment at all, those defendants had reason to complain about selective prosecution.
Supporters of the Capitol riot defendants, in short, had some legitimate concerns. Dream.org, a progressive group that promotes criminal justice reform, notes that "the issues raised by the January 6th defendants, including decrepit jail conditions and overly aggressive prosecutions, are rampant in the American criminal justice system."
Trump's clemency, however, extends beyond people who were prosecuted merely for entering the Capitol without permission. As of November 6, the Justice Department reported, about 600 people had been charged with "assaulting, resisting, or impeding law enforcement agents or officers or obstructing those officers" during the riot. They included 169 defendants "charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer."
Trump was reluctant to intervene after the riot started—a fact that figured prominently in his second impeachment and in the scathing report published by the House select committee that investigated the incident. But he eventually urged his followers to "stay peaceful" and "please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement," who he said "are truly on the side of our Country." He reiterated that message 35 minutes later: "I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order—respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!"
Trump's avowed support for law enforcement and opposition to violence are hard to discern in his blanket clemency, which encompasses defendants who flouted both principles. They include, for example, Andrew Taake, who pleaded guilty to attacking police officers with bear spray and a "whip-like weapon"; Curtis Tate, who was accused of hitting police officers with a metal baton; and David Dempsey, who was convicted of engaging in "a sustained attack against multiple officers at the Capitol, using his hands, his feet, a flagpole, crutches, pepper spray and broken pieces of furniture."
In addition to his pardons, Trump commuted prison sentences to time served for 14 members of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. Those defendants include former Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio, who received the longest sentence imposed in the January 6 cases: 22 years for seditious conspiracy, obstructing an official proceeding, conspiracy to prevent an officer from discharging his duties, obstruction of law enforcement during a civil disorder, and destruction of government property. They also include Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes, who received the second-longest sentence: 18 years for seditious conspiracy, obstruction of an official proceeding, and tampering with records. There were puzzling aspects to both of those cases.
Tarrio was not even in Washington, D.C., at the time of the riot. But as Reason's Christian Britschgi noted, he did "post messages encouraging the riot on social media," and he "claimed credit for helping carry it out after the fact." Based on such evidence, prosecutors argued that Tarrio "conspir[ed] to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power."
Unlike Tarrio, Rhodes was at the Capitol grounds that day, and during his trial a federal prosecutor described him as "a general surveying his troops on the battlefield." But unlike other members of his group, Rhodes did not enter the Capitol or participate in the violence or vandalism. Notably, the jury found him not guilty of conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding, a baffling verdict if he did in fact direct his followers to assault the Capitol.
The jury "made the confusing decision to acquit Mr. Rhodes of planning in advance to disrupt the certification of the election yet convict him of actually disrupting the certification process," The New York Times noted after the verdicts. "That suggested that the jurors may have believed that the violence at the Capitol on Jan. 6 erupted more or less spontaneously, as Mr. Rhodes has claimed."
In both cases, the judges were free to take into account acquitted conduct in settling on a sentence—a bizarre practice that contradicts basic notions of justice. And it seems strange that defendants who were not accused of directly participating in violence would receive longer sentences than defendants who were.
Tarrio was arrested on March 8, 2022, and he was denied bail, so his commuted sentence amounts to nearly three years. Rhodes was arrested on January 13, 2022, and he also was denied bail, so he served a bit longer. Trump evidently deemed those penalties adequate, although assuming that he gave the matter careful thought is probably giving him too much credit.
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First. Go fuck yourself Sullum
I second the motion.
And third, apply this to the summer of BLM and Antifa:
How often did you condemn Democrats who aided, abetted, applauded, and refused to prosecute BLM and Antifa rioters who Burned, Looted, and Murdered?
Your concern rings hollow, Jacob Sullum.
I'll fourth that motion, Pepin.
Did Jacob Sullum buy into the whole uNmArKeD vAnS narrative?
Yes.
With the preponderance of informants placed by the Feds into any any all potentially "radical" groups, what are the chances that most of the people "abducted by unmarked vans" were actually FBI/DHS CIs being brought in for a debrief without drawing suspicion (and possibly even enhancing their ability to infiltrate whatever cell they were part of)?
I'll fifth that motion.
SULLUM LIED on behalf of criminals in the alphabet agencies and Democratic Party who were engineering actual sedition via black propaganda and a false flag operation.
That sentence was where I stopped reading. Sullum has no self-awareness at all.
Applying this to BLM and Antifa -
If EVeRYONE who showed up at a Floyd rally was arrested and held without trial for years and given sentences even if they didn’t throw anything at cops or set anything on fire….and then tortured in jail
The woodchipper may be too good for Sullum
Trump has actually expressly noted that the easy treatment rioters got in the BLM/Antifa riots factored into his decision to do this mass clemency. He didn't see why right-wing rioters should get harsher treatment.
I agree, and the sooner the better.
Sullum now has as much credibility as the National Enquirer.
That is an insult to the enquirer,didn't they get the John Edwards story right? Puts them leagues above Jacob the liar.
I remember seeing a headline in grocery checkout: "WW II BOMBER FOUND ON MOON". I've forgotten now what the picture showed, either a B-17 or a TBM.
You just can't get that kind of fine work these days, not even from the Babylon Bee.
A couple of sentences in and his entire premise fell apart.
He commuted a few sentences of people who actually did get violent after years in jail (and conditions that would usually have Reason in an uproar.) Most of the pardons are for people who did nothing wrong besides being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can say he used the pen too broadly, but it's a correction for massive abuse of the justice system.
"Wrong place at the wrong time?"
They didn't wander away from a tour. They entered the US Capitol building during the vote certification with the intention of disrupting it.
Much agreed. Fuck Jacob Sullum.
You misspelled kill. Ha I caught a spelling error!
Didn't read any of your screed Jacob. Just stopped by to say Fuck You you pathetic asshole. Now carry on.
This is the only correct response to a JS BSfest
Democrats did it first with the BLM riots. That makes it ok.
The homeless is here.
Ha and he's lying or being retarded - take your pick. The BLM - Antifa rioters were rarely prosecuted, much less spend years in jail.
And had a VP advertising a bail fund.
I don't remember a blanket pardon for BLM related activities. Also BLM did not do an attempted coup.
No need to pardon what was never prosecuted.
Nor even charged.
It goes beyond that; BLM were fucking supported by the DNC establishment. Kamala Harris tweeted out their damn bail fund.
And try to remember, who was it had autonomous zones in various cities, ceded to them by the city government, who ordered the police to stay out? Proud Boys? Nope. Go ahead, stretch your imagination, you can do it! Why yes, Burn Loot Murder and Antifa. If that wasn't a coup, an actual coup, then j6 wasn't even a riot.
BLM did not do an attempted coup.
Nor did the Jan. 6 protesters. The only recent coup was when Biden was locked in the basement last July.
Perhaps molly faggot cunt forgot about chaz
"...Also BLM did not do an attempted coup..."
Neither did the Capitol protesters, slimy pile of lefty shit.
No, they just created their own 'autonomous zone'. What a dumb fuck.
BLM did not do an attempted coup
Except for that time they did, but it's not fair to count that.
"Also BLM did not do an attempted coup."
CHAZ says hi, moron.
Prosecuting Trump supporters for things that Democrats did first is just wrong. They did it first. That makes it ok.
Ideas™ !
Some of them seceded, creating autonomous zones in which attacked cops, they raped and murdered...
Nobody named "Biden" got directly involved in BLM...
That was (D)ifferent, sarcasmic.
No, the Democrats had their rioters PAID by governments for being arrested. After killing people, causing far more damage, and attempting an ACTUAL insurrection on 5/29.
It is not close to the same thing, try as you might to claim it is.
And here Sarc is with his tired, typical strawman. Got anything new, buddy?
"The president drew no distinction between people who merely entered the building and people who vandalized it or assaulted police officers."
>insert Clint Eastwood "WTF" squint here<
And here Jacob flatly lies. Trump issued pardons and commutations based on violence.
Poor Jacob.
Sorry your political prosecutions didn't stick.
We all know 20 years for trespassing is libertarian.
What were your views on BLM riots again? A political movement.
Those who committed any form of violence had more jail than even BLM rioters fire bombing cop cars. Lol.
You cried about tear gas for those who set fires and such. What a dishonest and hypocritical take.
Yeah. Again, this is the same Jacob that "defended" the 2A when Hunter Biden knowingly violated the law and when Trump was subjected to lawfare "equally".
If you ever meet him face-to-face, just stab him preemptively, you'll save yourself a backstabbing later.
This is the same Jacob that also defended the first impeachment for daring to look into Biden's corruption.
"We all know 20 years for trespassing is libertarian."
I was under the 'one true libertarian' impression that being shot in the face was the proper sentence for trespassing.
And Trump actually pointed this out:
Trump defends his decision to pardon January 6 rioters
"Trump sought to sidestep criticism about the pardons, saying that his supporters were prosecuted and sent to prison even though "you have murderers who aren't charged all over."
"Murderers get no time. You take a look at some of these [district attorneys]. They go after political opponents, but they don't go after people that shoot people in the street," Trump said."
Even the guys who haven't had trials yet have spent more time in jail than rioting typically results in even where prosecuted, at this point.
Doesn't unjustly imprisoning hundreds of innocent people qualify as political violence? Doesn't the presence of FBI agents/assets instigating and committing violence qualify as political violence?
To most of the people who are upset over these pardons, the only real "injustice" was the failure to imprison the other 70 million trump voters who didn't go to DC on 1/6/21.
The way the "blue-anon" media is reporting it, everyone involved just got a full pardon rather than the leadership only getting commuted sentences.
Cry harder bitches.
These people have already been in jail for 2 to 3 years. How long should they be imprisoned?
One guy for 4 years still waiting for his trial, often in solitary.
zero years.
This is my point. Even if you think they committed crimes, they have already paid for it with years in jail.
Murderers and rapists have done less time.
This is my point. Even if you think they committed crimes, they have already paid for it with years in jail.
^
I feel the same way about Leonard Peltier.
Especially if they only jacked off on the victim.
Excuses Political Violence
That ship had sailed over four years ago.
Trumpanzees gone apeshit FAILED to "Hang Mike Pence" and "Execute General Milley" without a trial... Now, Dear Leader will give them all ANOTHER bite at the apple of political violence, for the RIGHT Team!!!
They forgot about the summer of love.
He'll. One of the rioting BLM groups got paid 1M when they sued for being arrested and released.
I’m half surprised that Sullum isn’t angry that Ray Epps wasn’t pardoned.
6 months house arrest for him.
Sullum is an embarrassment to anyone who is an actual libertarian. He's about as libertarian and "socially conscious" as Mao Zedong.
Mao Zedong said that political power flows from the point of a gun. That sounds FAR more like the political "philosophy" of "Hang Mike Pence" Dear Leader, than shit sounds like Sullum!
>>The president drew no distinction
nope. now what?
Now Sullum will stamp his feet.
the T on his keyboard is all stuck from typing in anger.
So let's review.
The people whose only crime is illegal border crossing are treated as if they were vandals committing a home invasion.
The people who really did act like vandals invading the US Capitol are pardoned and treated like victims.
Full retard?
Let's see:
One group entered the country illegally or under false pretenses, and were rewarded with free phones, free housing, free healthcare, free education and free money.
The other group has been in jail for several years, mostly people who committed no violence.
Which group does Jeffsarc sympathize with?
Who is "jeffsarc"? Why don't you try referring to an actual person instead of some made-up pseudonym.
Bait that you took.
I mean Jeff says government was right to shoot any trespassers. That's his vision of liberty.
Jeff never said government was right to shoot any trespassers. That is a lie.
Are you this fucking retarded? Weird third person use. Forget to switch to a sock?
chemjeff radical individualist 4 years ago
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Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren't supposed to be.
That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
But keep going, Jesse, keep arguing against the castle doctrine of individuals defending life or property from aggressors. I thought right-wing nut jobs like you were supposed to be in favor of the castle doctrine.
>>castle doctrine
wrong. keep searching. castle doctrine is not the reason it was okay for the cop to shoot the girl in the face.
Question: Who was the aggressor in the confrontation? Was it the cop, defending life and property? Or was it Ashli Babbitt & co., who were breaking windows and crawling over barricades?
Who was the aggressor? Ashli or the cop?
the guy who fired the gun. very aggressive.
So Ashli Babbitt, who broke through windows and crawled over barricades, those weren't acts of aggression? Why did she break the windows? Why did she crawl over barricades? The barricades were there for a reason, right?
If a stranger intentionally broke your window at your house, you would not consider that an act of aggression against your property?
The cop who shot unarmed woman.
Are you really this stupid, Jeff?
Oh, yeah, I forgot.
You really are this stupid.
I see. So if a person intentionally breaks a window in your house and tries to crawl through that broken window in order to gain entry to your house, and you use force to try to stop the person from gaining entry, then YOU are the aggressor in the scenario. Got it.
No one in their right mind would believe such a thing. Tribalism has rotted your brain.
So if a person intentionally breaks a window in your house and tries to crawl through that broken window
Depends on the political leanings of the people involved. If the invader is a Republican and the resident a Democrat, then the Democrat is wrong.
I like how Jeff flails when his words are posted.
Castle doctrine doesn't apply to officers in buildings.
It is public property.
She was unarmed. So were most of the protestors. (Think they found 1 or 2 with stun guns. Never used or pulled.)
Castle doctrine doesn't let you shoot unarmed people when you know they are not armed.
Lastly Jeff says all trespassers. Even those on the lawn or on the Capitol steps.
Jeff is a fucking retarded lying Marxist.
Who was the aggressor? Ashli or the cop?
The cop. Easily. The cop whose record should have had him removed from the force to begin with. An inept shitstain --- BUT the only instance of a cop killing an unarmed protester Jeff will ever defend.
Haha another self own! Yesterday he got so flustered that he accidentally admitted that Fauci committed perjury after several posts, in the same thread, denying that he committed any crime.
Now here he is, after hours of denying he said the "gov't" was justified in shooting Babbitt in this very thread,.......he is, you guessed it, justifying the shooting!
Jeffy is like Biden when Biden goes off script lol. Right now his handlers are waving there arms screaming no mas lol.
And tomorrow he'll be here pretending he never said any of this.
Haha, Lying Jeffy got caught lying red handed and now he’s spewing bullshit to distract from it.
interested to see if he can produce a doctrine justifying the cop shooting the girl in the face he is just way off here lol
At least sarc tried to justify it by saying the cop couldn't see.
https://reason.com/2024/02/01/bipartisan-tax-credit-bonanza/?comments=true#comment-10425139
Sure, the shit-stain can: TRUMP!
At least you posted a link, instead of your usual paste of text with no context.
I stand by what I said, which isn't what you say I said. Which is why I'm so surprised you posted a link. People can see how much of a piece of shit liar you are.
Castle doctrine doesn't apply to officers in buildings.
It applies *in principle* to anyone defending life or property from aggressors. That is the role that the cops were playing that day, defenders of life and property.
It is public property.
Irrelevant. Aggressors can still vandalize and threaten even on public property.
She was unarmed.
One doesn't have to be carrying a gun to be an aggressor. She broke through windows and crawled over a barricade. That doesn't make her a peaceful bystander now, does it?
Castle doctrine doesn't let you shoot unarmed people when you know they are not armed.
The *principle* of the castle doctrine says that those defending life and property are permitted to use force if necessary to carry out that defense. In virtually every other case, you and your team will grant the benefit of the doubt to the defender who was facing an unknown threat against aggressors of unknown intent. But, strangely, not in this case. I wonder why.
Lastly Jeff says all trespassers. Even those on the lawn or on the Capitol steps.
From a strict libertarian enforcement of property rights? Yes, but we don't live a world where strict libertarian enforcement of laws exists. It would not have been wise or prudent or a good idea in any event.
If you saw some unknown stranger prowling around your house late at night, from a libertarian perspective, you would be justified in using lethal force if necessary to get rid of the threat that you perceived. That is defense of property rights. You have turned into a total collectivist on property rights just because you insist on standing up for the aggressions of Ashli Babbitt because she's on your team.
You have zero principles, only fifty-centing narratives from Team Red.
"It applies *in principle* to anyone defending life or property from aggressors. That is the role that the cops were playing that day, defenders of life and property."
So then its okay to shoot illegals crossing the border, right?
You have zero principles, only fifty-centing narratives from Team Red.
Even his mom knows this, which is surprising being that his kind reproduces by fission like bacteria.
Jesse, answer the question.
Who was the aggressor - Ashli Babbitt, or the cop?
Not Jesse...but it was the incompetent shitstain cop.
So why did Ashli Babbitt intentionally break windows and crawl over barricades? Weren't the barricades there for a reason? Why are these not acts of aggression?
I've hit my respond to lying shit weasel limit for the day. Sorry Jeff.
You're filling the thread with utter lies like the shit weasel you are.
Way past your limit.
So the last one.
Being an aggresor isn't a Capital offense. Especially at the hands of a cop. Video actually shows Babbit stopping others from committing violence. She literally assaulted zero people that day.
You cried that violent BLM protestors were being arrested in unmarked vans for fucks sake.
Government does not get a kill order for trespassing.
You're proving you're an authoritarian.
Right, you throw turds in the punchbowl and then refuse to answer the questions asked of you. You are a dishonest disgusting right-wing propagandist and provocateur, nothing more. You are going to defend every single shitty thing that Trump does, aren't you?
"So why did Ashli Babbitt intentionally break windows and crawl over barricades? Weren't the barricades there for a reason? Why are these not acts of aggression?"
Oh, vandalism equates to life-threatening peril to justify murdering somebody.
Got it.
The shitstain Byrd (who is also a scummy MF'er to boot) should never enjoy a day of peace for the rest of his life.
Being an aggresor isn't a Capital offense.
False analogy. This was not a court of law deciding on a capital murder case. The cop in this case was acting as a defender of life and property, not as a prosecutor of a crime.
Government does not get a kill order for trespassing.
The law should not make trespassing a capital offense. I agree with you here. The law should permit those defending life and property against aggressors to use force to do so if necessary. It also should not matter if the defenders are owners of the property or not (think Kyle Rittenhouse). It should not matter if the defenders are government agents or not, provided they are acting as defenders of property alone.
Tell us all where you disagree with the above paragraph.
Oh, vandalism equates to life-threatening peril to justify murdering somebody.
No, her vandalism establishes that she was the aggressor and the cop was serving the role of defender of life and property.
If an unknown stranger intentionally broke a window into your house, you would perceive this action as an act of aggression against your property, right? Would you be justified in using force to prevent this stranger from crawling through the broken window into your house? Would you be justified in using lethal force if this person refused commands to stop and nonlethal methods did not work?
"If an unknown stranger intentionally broke a window into your house, you would perceive this action as an act of aggression against your property, right? Would you be justified in using force to prevent this stranger from crawling through the broken window into your house? Would you be justified in using lethal force if this person refused commands to stop and nonlethal methods did not work?"
If somebody broke my window and I murder them for it --- I'd be in jail for murdering an innocent person for no valid reason.
If an unknown stranger intentionally broke your window, and began to crawl through the window, and ignored verbal commands to stop while you aimed a gun at the stranger, if you did use lethal force to stop the aggressor, everyone here would grant you the benefit of the doubt because you could not know the aggressor's intent ahead of time and his actions demonstrated that he was the aggressor and very likely up to no good. Instead it would be the anti-gun lefties who would try to second-guess your every decision and try to claim that you should have let the aggressor violate you and your property so as to prevent a 'senseless killing'. That is what you are in this discussion - no different than the anti-gun left castigating a guy who was defending life and property from an aggressor with unknown intent.
*their
The Capitol was the cop's home OR property? Since when?
In that moment the cop was serving in the role of a defender of property. Someone can defend property without actually owning the property you know. The same principle applies.
"In that moment the cop was serving in the role of a defender of property. Someone can defend property without actually owning the property you know. The same principle applies."
That the OTHER cops did not feel the need to murder her is immaterial? Including those on the same side of the barricade as her. Only the incompetent shitstain who should have been fired long before the incident.
Can a cop shoot somebody who yells at them? I mean, since you clearly do not believe reasonableness is anything to stress over.
The OTHER cops left the scene before Byrd drew his gun or fired the shot. Ashli hadn't started to crawl over the barricade by that point.
Can a cop shoot somebody who yells at them?
In general? No. Do you think that is all Ashli was doing - yelling at Byrd?
No video shows that. At all. Can you find anything showing that the other officers left the area?
"In general? No. Do you think that is all Ashli was doing - yelling at Byrd?"
Did not assault him. Showed no sign of assaulting him. So, yes, she did little more than yell.
But, she did trespass which is a capitol offense if it offends the powers in the government.
Then go watch the videos. The cops that were formerly on her side of the barricade, left before the shot was fired.
Showed no sign of assaulting him.
Except for the "crawling over a barricade" bit.
And - ONCE AGAIN - in any other situation where a defender is defending life and property against an aggressor of unknown intent, you and me and everyone else who supports the concept of the castle doctrine, would grant the benefit of the doubt to the defender. Hell that is what you all did with Kyle Rittenhouse. But in THIS ONE SINGLE SOLITARY CASE, you feel the need to second-guess every decision and play Monday morning quarterback for the defender. Huh.
Give it up. She's a religious figure now.
"If an unknown stranger intentionally broke your window, and began to crawl through the window, and ignored verbal commands to stop while you aimed a gun at the stranger, if you did use lethal force to stop the aggressor, everyone here would grant you the benefit of the doubt because you could not know the aggressor's intent ahead of time and his actions demonstrated that he was the aggressor and very likely up to no good.
So if an unknown stranger cuts a hole in your fence and crawls through, or climbs over your fence, or digs a hole under your fence and crawls through, and ignored posted warnings and verbal commands to stop while you aimed a gun at the stranger, if you did use lethal force to stop the aggressor, everyone here would grant you the benefit of the doubt because you could not know the aggressor's intent ahead of time and his actions demonstrated that he was the aggressor and very likely up to no good.
I'll let Border Patrol agents know they've got Jeff's blessing.
For humpty duty, words mean whatever he wants them to mean.
There he goes again! "I said the cop was justified in shooting Ashley Babbitt. I didn't say the government was justified".
Again, nobody here is buying your act (except sarcasmic - congrats on turning him from a bog standard asshole like most of us into a full blown marxist)
He is such a piece of shit scumbag.
No, I said the cop was justified in shooting Ashli Babbitt. I did not say any cop was in general justified in shooting any protestors.
LOL, this right here for all to see. He got caught in own loop like one of those 1950s TV robots.
Almost as good as Bears in Trunks....
This is again your actual words you lying Marxist shit weasel.
Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser.
How do you lie when it is already posted in this fucking thread?
trespasser =/= protestor
And again, you dishonestly present my argument by leaving out the conditional "if" for the whole thing. I said IF IF IF we had a strict libertarian perspective on property rights, which declares that property rights are absolute and violating property rights is morally no different than causing physical harm to a human being. We don't live in that world, I said as much in my original quote, but you twist it to suggest that I would support cops shooting protestors for any reason anywhere. That is never what I meant, you know it, you are the dishonest shitweasel, go back to WinRed or wherever it is that pays you your money.
Were the "unmarked vans" who "took" rioters fire bombing federal property justified in doing so?
The unmarked officers who threw rioters into unmarked vans were not defending life or property so your false equivalence is false.
Jeff, the COURT WAS BEING FUCKING FIRE-BOMBED.
FOR MONTHS.
As was Seattle writ large.
What the fuck do you mean there was no protection of property?
IIRC, the officers in the unmarked vans were throwing protestors into the vans who were leaving the protests, several blocks away from the main protests, where the firebombings took place. In that moment, they were not defending property from imminent threat. They were trying to detain suspects while acting as law enforcement officers in their official capacities.
Let me see if I can make this easy for you to understand.
Using force to defend against imminent harm - okay
Using force to try to arrest suspects during the course of ordinary law enforcement activities, when there is no threat of imminent harm - not okay
So she ALONE was somebody he was justified in shooting.
Got it.
Sure she posed zero threat to him. Still, she DID trespass...
She was very clearly acting as the aggressor and was breaking windows and crawling over barricades. She refused commands to stop. She was the aggressor with unknown intent. IN ANY OTHER SITUATION, you and every other person who defends the castle doctrine would grant the benefit of the doubt to the defender who was defending life and property. But not in this one singular case. Huh. Weird.
"She refused commands to stop."
Where is the recording of the order being given? Byrd is an inept shitstain. His word is worth nothing. I do not BELIEVE him on anything.
"She was the aggressor with unknown intent. IN ANY OTHER SITUATION, you and every other person who defends the castle doctrine would grant the benefit of the doubt to the defender who was defending life and property. But not in this one singular case. Huh. Weird."
...says the guy who said there was no protection of property in Seattle when "unmarked vans" "took" "protesters".
You are clowning yourself pretty badly here.
Again. Jeff said all protestors.
The lying shit weasel can't run from this, or from really anything but diets and responsibility.
This is why I save his and sarcs posts. They roll around in their own lies.
No, I said trespassers.
So trespassers...
like the illegal aliens who cross our border with impunity?
That's different. I mean like, borders shouldn't even exist, man.
ALL of the "Team R" Loyal Tribalists, in their MILLIONS, are Real and True Good Folks, and NONE are trolls and-or socks!!! Shit is known!!!
ALL of the NON-loyal deviants are butt ONE centralized troll-sock! Shit is known!!! The GOOD Folks are LEGION, opposed by just about NONE! So just go ahead and STEAMROLLER and DOGPILE that one lonely deviant; shit is GOOD to do that!
So there, there, GOOD Folks! Better now? Does THIS appease Your PervFected Paranoia and Power Piggery?
I am sympathizing with mostly powerless people who did not commit any *violent* crimes, who are nonetheless thrown into cages and treated as if they were.
This includes nonviolent Jan. 6 protesters and it also includes peaceful migrants whose only 'crime' is illegal border crossing.
This does NOT include *violent* Jan. 6 *rioters* and it also does NOT include non-peaceful migrants who also commit violent crimes.
How about you?
To TrumpTurds, obliviously, Your Sacred TEAM and Your MOTIVES are The Sacred End-All and Be-All... And the actual CONTENTS of Your Sacred Political Violence? Doesn't matter!!!
Fuck you. I don't play these phrasing games that you love to play, as in this post I'm responding to.
I am pointing out that nobody is buying your fake libertarian boaf sides act. Your rape and child mutilation apologist posts, covid authoritarianism support posts, and your refusal to acknowledge all of the free shit illegals get and the violent crimes they commit, are right here for anyone to read.
"...all of the free shit illegals get..."
Like PERMISSION TO WORK HERE? So YOUR "libertarian" take on shit is, it's totes OK for Government Almighty to dispense PERMISSION TO WORK to all who are worthy, and to deny shit to the unworthy sub-humans? And THAT will lead us to the Promised Land of economic prosperity?
Twat planet did Ye, PervFected One, say that Ye are from? Or are Ye a human-prosperity-hating evil Servant and Serpent from the Evil One, who reigns in Hell?
Right, so this is you comeback when you are caught in your own hypocrisy. You want to send the government against the powerless immigrants who did not commit any violent crimes, and you want the government to pardon and release those who were convicted of violent crimes, based purely on tribe and identity. No principle, just using the state to reward friends and punish enemies. THAT is actual banana republic shit that you all now support.
Fuck you. I didn't say anything of the sort, you lying bitch.
How is it not true? You fully support the government pardoning these violent criminals because they were on your team. But the violent criminals from, say, BLM protests? No chance. Furthermore you want the government to treat nonviolent immigrants whose only crime is illegal border crossing as if they were violent criminals, running an entire election campaign presupposing that they are violent thugs and eating pets and cannibals for heaven's sake.
"But the violent criminals from, say, BLM protests? No chance."
Want to compare damages, deaths, etc in the events?
"Furthermore you want the government to treat nonviolent immigrants whose only crime is illegal border crossing as if they were violent criminals, running an entire election campaign presupposing that they are violent thugs and eating pets and cannibals for heaven's sake."
WE don't want them dead.
Just be somewhere else.
You left out his letting migrants go jail free for rape.
I never supported setting migrants free for rape. Yet another lie.
Wait... Wait... Hold on now... You mean to tell me that JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer tells LIES?!?! HOW could such a thing BE?!?!?
You are really determined to show everyone your a lying shit weasel huh?
Thread.
https://reason.com/2024/06/25/americas-mayors-say-the-heartland-needs-immigrants/?comments=true#comment-10616918
And...
https://reason.com/2024/06/24/byo-a-c/?comments=true#comment-10615352
Yet another instance of you being dishonest. In that discussion I was MOCKING YOU. I was mocking your hypocrisy on how you treat juveniles. On one hand you think they should be protected from decisions that you don't like because they ae "just children", but on the other hand when it comes to violent crime you think they should be treated like adults. I'm not excusing rape, I'm mocking your double standard. Anyone with a functional brain can see that, but alas ,your brain is no longer functional, having been shredded by too much Breitbart and Federalist reading.
You only mock yourself, dork. So tell us again about bears in trunks, jacking off on minors, saying you're sorry afterwards to make it all better?
Actually you did defend releasing people who sexually assaulted minors into the country on a promise they'd show up to a hearing months or years in the future. It's why everyone sees you as defending pedophiles.
The head of the Proud Boys was not in DC and was sentenced to 22 yrs anyway.
Tell me more.
Jeff is very proud of government abusing powers against his perceived enemies.
Citizenship privilege is indeed a thing.
And when the idea of pardons for the Jan. 6 prisoners first came up, there were plenty of commenters here who said that pardons for non-violent offenses would be justifiable but pardons for violent crimes would be going too far.
Now, let's see if these commenters will come forth and stand by their stated position, that Trump's pardons of those convicted of *violent crimes* went too far.
They have already served jail time. Who do you think you're fooling when you say you're not a Democrat paid shill? Not anybody here except for sarcasmic.
Why should these *violent criminals* be treated differently than others who were similarly convicted of violent crimes?
Can it be any more obvious that you and your team want to punish immigrants (no, not just the illegal ones either) by portraying them as violent thugs, and you want to reward "your team" by portraying the violent thugs as peaceful victims?
"Why should these *violent criminals* be treated differently than others who were similarly convicted of violent crimes?"
How many people guilty of vandalism get 4 yrs+ in prison, forced re-education, long stints in solitary, and NO TRIALS AFTER 4 DAMNED YEARS?
How many? Give me a number that makes it OK.
Vandalism? Over 700 were charged for merely parading. Serving months to years.
And SCOTUS argued that a lot of the sentences were illegal.
Jeff isn't a Democrat. He's an authoritarian Marxist.
So is Mike Pence!!! THAT is why we MUST... Hang Mike Pence!!! Dear Leader TOLD us to!
chemjeff, I would say the pardons of those with blood on their hands on Day 1 went too far.
I would have waited until a thorough review of the video could be done. By this, I mean maybe a month or two...certainly by the end of Q1. It is sort of like an 'own goal', to me.
OTOH, turnabout is fair play. There is something to be said for that. You might now say what 45/47 supporters have said for some time....there is a two tiered justice system.
But now, you're on the lower tier. The shoe is on the other foot.
Pro-Palestinian demonstrators take over House building, throwing Capitol security into question
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/pro-palestine-demonstration-at-cannon-house-building-throws-capitol-security-into-question
Protestors fireplace bombed the fucking white house during his first term.
That, mind you, was not an insurrection, per jeff.
Walking around the Capitol, though --- insurrection city.
You'd think weighing over 400 lbs he'd find an ounce of shame... but nope.
He mistook that for a cheese puff crumb.
Also seceding from the US (CHAZ) is also not an insurrection, somehow. Abraham Lincoln would be crushed.
When did that happen?
Is this still something people don't fucking know?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests/fires-burn-near-white-house-in-violent-u-s-protests-idUSKBN2370HH/
This included structures on white house grounds, namely a guard post.
This isn't hidden information.
The Capitol rioters deserve the same fate as the people who did this.
But it's only 1 building so no biggie.
Per jeff, all should have been shot. In the face, if possible.
Wasn't this a campaign promise?
If he promised on the campaign trail to do this constitutional thing, and the American people elected him anyway . . .
As a libertarian, I think our beef should be with our fellow Americans. It's what's in their heads that's the problem.
This is the crux of the matter. Yes, Trump pardoned violent criminals. And yes, he has every right to do so. And no, he doesn’t have to have a good reason.
The pardon power of the President is absolute and in the Constitution. He could pardon Adolph Hitler and Josef Stalin for crimes against the United States and it would be valid. Indefensible, but valid.
He commuted their sentence. If you're going to rage like a crying liberal, be better than act blue.
“These are the hostages,” Trump said from the Oval Office, referring to the convicted and charged defendants. “Approximately 1,500 for a pardon – full pardon.”
Donald Trump disagrees with you.
Hey Nelson, I know reading is not your thing, but you can read the order.
Hilter! We got a bingo!
You kinda missed the point. He could pardon the worst people in the world and it would be valid. Which is why I used Hitler and Stalin as examples.
The pardon power is absolute. That’s my point.
Of those 169 people charged with using a deadly weapon, obstructing or seriously injuring a police officer actually caused a serious injury to a police officer?
What constitutes a serious injury under this definition?
You had 450 cases still pending. After four years.
So you're OK with me shooting at you with 59 rounds, so long ass all of the bullets miss? Is THAT what you're saying? No harm, no foul, at 2 or 5 or 27 attempts to steal democracy, ass long ass the attempts all fail? Twat happens after they succeed? Do you CARE... Or only if the WRONG Team succeeds at shit?
One of my goals is to show that power-lusting Trumptards slobber over the prospect of getting MOAH POWAH for themselves, at ANY costs! Ethics, principles, people, law and order, a decent future for most people… ALL can and WILL be sacrificed for MOAH POWAH for Trumpturds!
READ the below and hang your tiny brainless, power-lusting shit-head in SHAME for always taking the side of Trumpanzees, power-luster-pig!
https://www.jpost.com/international/kill-him-with-his-own-gun-dc-cop-talks-about-the-riot-655709 also https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/28/michael-fanone-trump-gop-riots/
‘Kill him with his own gun’ – DC cop talks about Capitol riot
DC Police officer Michael Fanone: I had a choice to make: Use deadly force, which would likely result with the mob ending his life, or trying something else.
“Pro-law-and-order” Trumpturds take the side of trumpanzees going apeshit, making cops beg for their lives! For trying to defend democracy against mobocracy! Can you slime-wads sink ANY lower?!?!
And 1 thousand were convicted. Oddly Jake has never batted an eye at the 800 arrested with threats of 20 years in jail. An unconstitutional threat per the USSC.
Assaulting a police officer is a very broad category. It doesn’t even have to cause an inconvenience, let alone an injury.
Don't know about DC, but in my state touching an officer at all can be charged as "assault".
Offensive touching of anyone *can* be charged as assault, but is much more likely to be charged if the touchee is law enforcement.
But if you rape a minor and are illegal, just have to say you're sorry - Jeff.
Same with spitting at them. It doesn’t even have to land on them.
Yeah whenever a bunch of stuff is thrown together and separated by an "or", my BS detector starts raging. In this case, "obstructing (standing)" is probably 150 of the 169, and "using a deadly weapon" can mean flying a flag or pounding a gavel onto a desk.
They in fact called flag poles and guard rails deadly weapons in their charging.
Yeah I remembered that as I was typing the post.
Can we all agree that January 6 was bad for the MAGA movement and bad for Trump?
If it hadn't been for January 6, Trump may have won in 2024 in a landslide like Reagan did in 1984.
Sometimes a quarterback wins a game in spite of throwing a pick six. January 6 was the MAGA movement throwing a pick six.
Except it was the IC with help of Pelosi and Co. who jumped into the game and threw the pick 6.
Not to swing voters, it wasn't.
The swing voters who voted for Trump did so in spite of January 6, not because of it.
Coca Cola isn't using January 6 for marketing purposes because it isn't appealing to average people.
You speaking for Trump swing voters? How do you know that?
You don't think the way those people were treated might have been a factor in voting for Trump?
It was a factor in my vote.
Swing voters--people who could vote either Republican or Democrat--are largely suburban women in places like Arizona, Michigan, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
And suggesting that suburban women didn't vote for Trump because they want more of where January 6 came from is about as controversial as suggesting they don't like to eat shit sandwiches.
Those that voted for Harris did so in spite of the Biden administration covering up for Biden's mental decline--not because of it. No one was impressed by that.
Some things are obviously unappealing, and January 6 is an excellent example.
I said it was a factor. Not the main reason. Your post makes no sense.
You are one of those people who don't listen to what someone is saying because you are already thinking about what you are going to say.
That's projection. I point out that advertising won't go anywhere near this kind of imagery, and you think I'm claiming to know what swing voters find appealing?
I think advertisers know what's appealing. I think the images they use are market signals of what's appealing to various demographics. And the demographic that could vote for either Trump or Harris, they're not the ones who look at January 6 imagery and think, "Yeah, why can't we get four more years of that?".
That was a bad day for the popularity of MAGA among swing voters. That was the MAGA movement farting in the face of suburban women everywhere. That was appealing to swing voting suburban women like a bunch of 300 lbs. idiots getting naked on a beach.
If the MAGA movement stayed up all night trying to think of new and better ways to alienate suburban women, they might not have come up with anything better than January 6.
Suburban women LOVED ANTIFA & BLM CRT DEI ESG “Summer of Love”
That’s why Trump won in a landslide in 2024 - and won every category and increased among minorities.
Total victory. The people have spoken - they hate oppressive Wokeness with a passion.
Based on exit polls they voted for him due to prosecutorial abuses against him as well as the J6 protestors. So it was a benefit this election.
Coca Cola isn't using January 6 for marketing purposes because it isn't appealing to average people.
Coca-cola conspicuously issuing a Jan. 6th commemorative bottle is proof that the Jan. 6th protest was unpopular with average people (who voted for Trump)?
WTF is wrong with you? It doesn't even make sense. This is worse than sarc or mtrueman levels of stupidity. At least "Average people who voted for Trump didn't vote for him in 2020 because of Goddamned trunk bears!" would be humorous.
The suggestion that advertisers don't use ugly and awful imagery in their advertising because people find it unappealing makes so much sense it shouldn't even be controversial.
Advertisers use babies, puppies, kittens, and celebrities because people find those things appealing. People storming the Capitol is not one of those appealing things. Being associated with that ugly imagery did not help consumers associate MAGA with beauty or goodness. It was a bad day for MAGA.
For goodness' sake, if anything is absurd, it's the idea that suburban, swing voting soccer moms find the Capitol riot aesthetically appealing. They find "Utah curls" appealing. Not the Capitol riot.
People can be motivated to vote for Trump based on Jan 6 - not to incentivize such behaviour or even condone it but as a repudiation and expression of revulsion to the gross government abuse and corruption of the legal system in reaction to it.
Obviously no retailer would show a riot [calling it an insurrection is mendacious gaslighting] to promote their brand. ... unless it was a BLM insurrection and they were signaling their woke bona fides.
I see you drink Bud Light.
I'm talking about swing voters. Not myself.
Yes, before that self-destructive advertising failure, Bud Light was America's best selling beer. Because it was bland.
When punk rock is popular with average Americans, it doesn't sound like Battalion of Saints. It sounds like Blink-182. When metal is popular with average Americans, it doesn't sound like Mayhem. It sounds like Bon Jovi. And when Trump is popular with swing voters, it isn't because of January 6. It's in spite of it.
Can we all agree that January 6 was bad for the MAGA movement and bad for Trump?
It's interesting seeing a supposed libertarian cast so much shade at a non-violent group of protestors.
How dare those protestors literally say that the incoming administration had normalized such unrest and property destruction while they were doing it!
I don't know what life event or health condition caused you to leave or what medication or other situation caused you to come back but the distinctly Sarcasmic "BOAF SIDEZ"/"Fuckin' deplorables!" takes are as stupid and tiresome from you as they are from Reason, sarc, or Hillary.
Being libertarian is about the opposite of pretending the facts are other than they are, and pretending that swing voters found the Capitol riot anything but unappealing is downright delusional.
Violence by protesters in the seat of government (including places like Hart Office Building which are essentially extenstions of the Capitol building), occupying those building, protesting that government, entering the private workspaces of the House and Senate, accosting Congressfolk, none of that is cool. The point it is was always a non-event, a big "meh" over the years, until Trump folks did it. The double standard applied is immeasurable.
Time Magazine tells us that "93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful". What percentage of Trump rallies have had violence, how many protesters in D.C engaged in the riot? What percent were they that day?
If you're disgusted and angry ONLY at the Capitol riot and not equally so about all of these violent events, or ONLY about the BLM protests and not upset about the Capitol riot, then I don't know what to say.
[October, 2011]
Protesters gained entrance to the Hart Senate office building's atrium and dropped two banners, one reading "End War Now" and the other "People for the People."
NBC News reports as soon as demonstrators unfurled their signs, Capitol Police placed them under arrest. At least six have been arrested for unlawful conduct - demonstrating. Dozens of other demonstrators ran through the building's upper levels chanting and waving smaller signs.
The offices of Democratic senators Dianne Feinstein and Harry Reid are located inside the Hart building, as well as Republican Marco Rubio.
The political protests rumble into a second week in the nation's capital. The demonstrations, smaller in size than the Occupy Wall Street protest in New York City, have for the most part been restrained and peaceful. On Saturday, one demonstrator was arrested after a group attempted to enter the Smithsonian Air and Space museum. Guards repelled the demonstrators with pepper spray, and the museum shut down early.
[October, 2018]
More than 300 people were taken into custody by police on Capitol Hill after descending on a pair of Senate office buildings Thursday afternoon to protest the confirmation process of Brett Kavanaugh, President Trump's Supreme Court nominee.
The vast majority of the arrests, 293, were a result of protests in the Hart Senate Office Building, where protesters crowded in the atrium. Loud chants could be heard throughout the building, which is structured so the hallways of each floor open up and look out onto the first floor.
Those arrested in Hart were charged with crowding, obstructing or incommoding, according to Capitol Police. Another nine people were arrested on the fourth floor of Dirksen Senate Office Building and charged with unlawful demonstrations.
[June, 2018 ]
An afternoon of protests ended in many arrests in the Hart Senate Office Building on Thursday as a group of mostly female protesters flooded the atrium of the work space to protest President Donald Trump’s immigration policies.
United States Capitol Police charged nearly 575 individuals with “unlawfully demonstrating,” according to a Capitol Police statement Thursday.
[Edit: Liz Warren incited this one. Photos exist of her exhorting the crowd inside the building. They were charged with unlawfully demonstrating, a misdemeanor, reported the Post. Rep. Jayapal was fined $50 after her arrest at the protest.]
D.C. to Pay $1.6 Million to Settle Claims from 2017 Inauguration Day Demonstrations
https://www.acludc.org/en/press-releases/dc-pay-16-million-settle-claims-2017-inauguration-day-demonstrations
US cities to pay record $80m to people injured in 2020 racial justice protests
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/25/us-cities-settlement-protesters-blm-racial-justice
woke money-laundering
not greenwashing so much as .. i dont know ... woke-washing?
At this point I think the Trump crowd around here supports unlimited executive authority as long as their team is in charge.
Maybe Curtis Yarvin is right, maybe the right really does want a dictator.
When Trump gives his family unlimited pardon of whatever crimes they commit, come back to us.
Don't forget Fauci.
his kids appear to have been raised to have common decency ... i doubt they'll need pardons. [then again, someone like Biden might get in and have an attorney general make up something to go after them]
I'm also quite amused that after all of the gnashing of teeth about "PRECEDENT!" by Biden's very questionable use of his pardon powers, here comes Trump with a similarly questionable use of his pardon powers and no one here is screaming "PRECEDENT" about a future president staging a riot of his supporters in order to intimidate a co-equal branch of government to do his bidding, and then using his pardon powers to give them a "get out of jail free" card as a reward for their loyalty.
Charged vs Not Charged is too big a distinction for you.
4 false equivalencies in one sentence! Your masters must be proud! That's a $2 post!
Using the Biden precedent, why should a President not give his entire cabinet blanket pardons for the next four years and then have them ignore Congress and all laws from then forward?
You can't pardon for actions in the future.
If trump does it first, will it be ok?
"You can't pardon for actions in the future."
Explain why not.
You can pardon for anything one MIGHT have done in the past. There is no limiting principle left.
".... staging a riot of his supporters...."
Trump: "Peacefully and patriotically make our voices heard."
Jeff, is English not your first language?
Show me your post damning Biden for his pardons on the Jan 6th committee. I’ll wait commie.
Show me Your Dear Leader RETRACTING His Royal Demands to "Hang Mike Pence" and "Execute General Milley" (without a trial), and DAMNING random power-seeking political violence, Oh Ye PervFected Servant and Serpent of the Evil One! If You can't PervFectly show that from Your Dear Leader, can YOU denouce such calls of mob-based political violence?
I'll wait, Oh Ye PervFected Servant and Serpent of the Evil One!
J6 committee committed no crime other than reiterate how much a traitor Trump is.
I like that phrasing. You just admitted the j6 committee committed the crime of calling Trump a traitor. Freudian slip, or partisan slip, it still shows.
Quoting it in case you edit it out.
You think it’s a crime to call the President a traitor? How, exactly?
Nope, but MollyGodiva does. Ask your fellow traveler.
Jew-hiders who hid Jews from NAZIs committed no crime other than hiding Jews.
Look, they FESSED UP to their high, heinous, TRAITOROUS crimes!!! And ditto for the witches, illegal sub-humans, trannies, accused “groomers”, abortionists, gays, heathens, infidels, vaxxers, mask-wearers, atheists, dirty hippies, or, the very WORST of them all, being one of those accused of STEALING THE ERECTIONS OF OUR DEAR LEADER, right, right-wing wrong-nuts? ANY methods are OK, so long as they are used against the CORRECT enemies, am I right?
Tampering with witnesses. Deleting evidence told explicitly to not delete.
FAILING to "Hang Mike Pence" and to "Execute General Milley" when so instructed by Our Dear Leader!!!
(Dear Leader is, indeed, GENEROUS to let them slide, for these SINS against The Emperor!)
ALL erased documentation. Cheney coached a witness.
Tampered*
Never told cassideys lawyer she was talking to Cassidy.
He also pardoned all of the capitol cops including the guy that murdered Ashli Babbitt.
Don’t fear the revolt!
(insurrection)!
All our times have come
Here, but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the revolt
Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain
(We can be like they are)
Come on, baby
(Don’t fear the revolt)
Baby, take my hand
(Don’t fear the revolt)
We’ll be able to fly
Baby, I’m your man
La, la la, la la
La, la la, la la
Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbs
Are together in eternity
(Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbitt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel
Horst and Babbs both wanted to grab political power through violence, and got back, what they were dishing out. Karma is a bitch! Live by the sword, die by the sword!
Refute it, bitch!
Ashli Babbitt got what she deserved. If you storm a building defended by armed guards, you shouldn’t be surprised when you get ventilated.
The world would be a much better place if the defenders hadn’t shown so much restraint.
I'm going to clip and save this.
You are 100% not going to like where this ends up.
Up his backside?... (so that he can see it better?)
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I see some grey boxes. I’m superior to you in every way shillsy.
Nelson: aren’t you the bum that claimed trumps would be assassin is a republican? You are also an idiot and not worthy of response.
If you donate to act blue you're a republican - Nelson
No, but if you espouse conservative beliefs, you are a conservative.
"Nelson: aren’t you the bum that claimed trumps would be assassin is a republican?”
Nope. I said they were conservatives because, according to reports, they were ideologically conservative. I don’t think either of them were Republicans.
I can read this leftist perspective any time I want at most leftist sites.
Mr Sullivan seems an apologist for the Biden regime and not a libertarian at all.
I sure wish Reason would return to it's libertarian roots and dump all those who are not libertarians at all , judging on their comments.
More violence was done by police than by demonstrators.
Ashley's killer is given a free pass for his violence.......................
NOT WHAT I SUBSCRIBE TO REASON FOR!!!
What do you know, JD Vance got it right.
Trump's Blanket Clemency for Capitol Rioters
Excuses Political ViolenceSlaps Down Perpetrators Of Political LawfarePolitical violence by the left is already excused.
How about the lawyer that firebombed a police car? She could have been sentenced to 5 years in jail but only got 15 months.
That's far worse than any of these people did. On no, they kicked a cop. Send them away for 20 years! In what world does that fit the crime?
That's the thing, they might be pardoned, but they all did far more jail time than justified for the crimes. They paid for whatever crimes they committed.
Still no word on Ross Ulbricht, then?
Biden, no amnesty, Trump, no amnesty, for Ross... Trump, amnesty for VIOLENT Trumpanzees gone apeshit? HELL YES!!! Ross Ulbricht needs to get on the right TEAM!!! THEN we can forgive him for his non-violence!!!
(PS... Don't ye DARE threaten MEEEE with yer non-violence!!!!)
He was pardoned about an hour after your comment, looks like.
90% of those pardoned deserved pardons. I do wish Trump had been a bit more discerning about people who were involved with actual violence (and no, the 14 people he commuted were not the only violent people), but the fact is that the incredible overreach and overcharge actions by the DOJ were quite concerning.
The good doesn't cancel out the bad, but the bad doesn't cancel out the good, either.
I'd like to see how many of the convicted would have received a sentence of even one year if it did not upset Democrats so.
Biden politically persecuted his political rivals and then whined that Trump might do the same.
If ONLY Damned-and-Sick were given unlimited political power, then Damned-and-Sick could FORCE people to buy magazines that Damned-and-Sick likes, and then, everything would be PervFected, just like Damned-and-Sick is PervFected!!!!
How many of them would have been charged with felonies instead of misdemeanors if not at J6? Pardoning the felony conviction where normally just a misdemeanor is fine in my book.
Was the pipe bomber pardoned?
Really, the failure to release 17,000 hours of unedited video footage, FBI spooks not coming clean on how many were there. The gallows and creeps running it, Ray Epps, Capital police firing rubber bullets and tear gas to rile up peaceful protesters. Kangaroo courts skipping the rules. Yeah, pardoning them is the least that should be done with them. Maybe put up a statue or two.
Those in charge (R&D) want it to just go away.
Trump deserves applause for this.
Trump deserves applause for this... Even though He FAILED to HANG MIKE PENCE and EXECUTE GENERAL MILLEY, driven by mob-power, without a trail?!?! And Ye PervFectly call for PRAISE for Trump, even though He FAILED at getting twat He called for?
Shame for shame, ye not-loyal-to-Trump LEFT-TIT, ye!!!
Democrats had a guillotine yesterday. Arrest them all.
I must say, from "libertarians", the deference on the death penalty for violent murderers and rapists because there's a chance a celestial teapot aligned with Venus, we all just hallucinated several dead bodies, and the accused is a victim of circumstance rather than actually being guilty, relative to the "Mmmm... I don't know, some of those protestors may've vandalized private property and deserve some prison time with or without all the lawfare surrounding the case." makes me wish I were more free to hit people with a bat.
"Trump's Blanket Clemency for Capitol Rioters Excuses Political Violence. The president drew no distinction between people who merely entered the building and people who vandalized it or assaulted police officers."
What bullshit from Jacob.
The J6 political prisoners should be pardoned.
The real violence came from the capital pigs and the fascist FBI and their puppets.
Funny how the author doesn't mention the looters, rioters and vandals who trashed Seattle and Portland.
Now those leftist filth are the ones who should've been arrested and put in prison.
Sullum lost all his credibility by writing this shit article.
Now no one will take him seriously and justifiably so.
Butt, whatabout that them thar whatabouts? Twatabout Hillary? Whatabout OJ Simpson?
How many brain cells does it take to run a socio-political simulation on the following:
Judge and Jury: “Murderer, we find you guilty of murder! 20 years in the hoosegow for YOU! Now OFF with ye!”
Murderer: “But OJ Simpson got off for murder, why not me? We’re all equal, and need to be treated likewise-equal!”
Judge and Jury: “Oh, yes, sure, we forgot about that! You’re free to go! Have a good life, and try not to murder too many MORE people, please! Goodbye!”
Now WHERE does this line of thinking and acting lead to? Think REALLY-REALLY HARD now, please! What ABOUT OJ Simpson, now? Can we make progress towards peace & justice in this fashion?
(Ass for me, I think we should have PUT THE SQUEEZE on OJ!)
Ah, Sullum hates threats to the system.
Burning down cities is fine - all part of the plan to get more power for the system.
People *not actually doing any violence* though - that's 'political violence's right there.
Tell me Sullum, who was killed on Jan 6th?
What's funny to me is that Slim ignores history.
Whiskey Rebellion, the Civil War - ACTUAL INSURRECTIONISTS THAT FOUGHT A REAL, NO SHIT, WAR were pardoned in the interest of healing wounds (which Sullum asserts can't be done now that these guys won't be punished more.
But these clowns are supposed to spend life on jail for tussling with the cops?
The president drew no distinction between people who merely entered the building and people who vandalized it or assaulted police officers.
Yea, well, kinda like how the last President and its State Media did the same thing. You didn't mind it then.
I'm sure Biden forgot people when he issued his pardons. We'll find out soon enough when Trump defenders start praising lawfare against them. It was evil and wrong when Democrats did it. But now if you oppose lawfare you're a dirty leftist.
No, democrats did it first, so it’s ok!
This is not about "lawfare" whatever the heck that might be. It's about doing the right thing. This is not a simple case of "whataboutism" or "the left did it first." WHY a President pardons someone matters. If persons are the victims of official abuse of power the only right thing to do is to pardon them. If you were convicted of "interfering in an official proceeding" when what you actually were guilty of was rioting; and the maximum penalty for rioting is one year while the maximum penalty for "interfering" is twenty years; and you pleaded guilty to rioting even though you didn't riot because a prosecutor threatened to ruin your life with a worse charge, I fully support a pardon for you. If you can name one BLM rioter who was charged with "interfering in an official proceeding" then I might reconsider. Until then the Jan 6 Grand Inquisition was an outrageous travesty of the law and deserves to be reversed.
Madison said something about a lack of angels, so since we are all dicks, I would rather have a government afraid of the people than the other way around.
And this just in: "Declaration of Independence Excuses Political Violence."
This is one of the most self-contradictory and logically tortured op-eds I have ever tried to wade through! I've read more straight-forward Supreme Court attempts to justify the unjustifiable social engineering legislation from the bench rulings. This is one of the rare instances when I agree with the outrage of almost every other commenter on this thread. Blanket pardons would be the only possible response to blanket perversion of the already perverse "round up the usual suspects" Democrat abuse of power in connection with Jan 6.
I am that person you thought would agree with you when you wrote this nonsense, but I and millions do not agree at all.
Trump requested Policing help that was refused. So to be consistent you should be more outraged by that , but you are not.
From the explosive devices to the provocateurs planted in the crowds...this was entrapment. I saw the video of cops talking calmly with folks entering govt buildings.
Even the desire to adjudicate this and weed out the less law abiding is just an attempt to grandstand like Schumer and Pelosi did
More and more, REASON does not know its own audience.
Well, he also pardoned Ross Ulbricht.
Sullum's in good company with some of the rest of media's opinions:
WSJ: Trump Pardons Jan. 6 Rioters
USA Today: President Donald Trump pardons Jan. 6 Capitol attack defendants on first day in office
NJ.com 'F--k it: Release 'em all.' Behind the scenes of Trump's Jan. 6 blanket pardons
MSN: After Trump's Jan. 6 Pardons, Some Fear It Will Spur More Violence
WAPO: Trump pardons upend massive Jan. 6 prosecution by freeing rioters and dismissing cases
HuffPost: Republicans Won't Denounce Trump's Pardons For Jan. 6 Rioters Who Beat Police Officers
New Republic: Trump's Issues Pardons to Most Dangerous January 6 Insurrectionists
CNN: They assaulted cops and tried to overturn an election. What to know about Trump's mass pardons for January 6 rioters
The Independent: Trump January 6 pardons take effect as inauguration gets historically bad ratings
Sullum
WSJ
USA Today
NJ.com
MSN
WAPO
HuffPost
New Republic
CNN
The Independent...
Journo-Shit-List?
Did you mean to say, "Sullum's in BAD company?"