A Texas Cop Endangered Himself by Jumping Onto a Moving Car. Then He Shot the Driver.
The Supreme Court will review a 5th Circuit decision that let the officer off the hook without considering the recklessness that turned a routine traffic stop into a deadly encounter.

On a Thursday afternoon in April 2016, a 24-year-old man named Ashtian Barnes was driving his girlfriend's rental car on the Sam Houston Tollway in Harris County, Texas, when he was pulled over by a traffic enforcement officer. The officer, Roberto Felix Jr., stopped Barnes because the license plate of the rental car had been linked to toll violations by another driver. About three minutes into the stop, Barnes began to drive away. Felix reacted by jumping onto the door sill of the car with his gun drawn. Within two seconds, perceiving a threat to himself as the car accelerated, Felix fatally shot Barnes.
The offenses that led to the traffic stop, which had not even been committed by Barnes, were trivial, and Felix himself created the danger to which he responded by killing Barnes. That use of deadly force was plainly unreasonable, Barnes' mother, Janice Hughes Barnes, argued in a federal civil rights lawsuit against Felix.
Although that conclusion might seem like a no-brainer, a federal judge dismissed the case, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit upheld that decision last January. Both courts were bound by 5th Circuit precedent to focus on "the moment of the threat" that Felix confronted, ignoring both the nature of the stop and the officer's recklessness in jumping onto the car. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to decide whether that approach, which has been embraced by four circuits and rejected by eight, is consistent with the Fourth Amendment.
In the 1985 case Tennessee v. Garner, which involved a suspected burglar, Edward Garner, who was shot while fleeing police, the Supreme Court held that the use of deadly force is unconstitutional in such circumstances "unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." To assess whether a use of force is "objectively reasonable" under the Fourth Amendment, the Court explained four years later in Graham v. Connor, judges should consider "the totality of the circumstances," paying "careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case." The Court said relevant factors include "the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight."*
Like Garner, Barnes was unarmed and did not plausibly pose "a significant threat of death or serious physical injury" to the general public. And unlike Garner, Barnes was not suspected of a felony or even an arrestable offense. Under the 5th Circuit's "moment of threat" standard, however, those circumstances were irrelevant. So was everything that happened before the two seconds in which Felix decided to shoot Barnes.
When Felix turned on his emergency lights, Barnes pulled over to the median on the left side of the tollway. Felix parked behind Barnes and approached the driver's side window. When Felix asked for Barnes' driver's license and proof of insurance, the 5th Circuit noted, "Barnes replied that he did not have the documentation and that the car had been rented a week earlier in his girlfriend's name." Seeing Barnes "digging around" in the car, Felix told him to stop. Claiming to smell marijuana (which a subsequent search did not find), Felix asked if Barnes had anything illegal in the car, at which point Barnes "turned off the vehicle, placing his keys near the gear shift." Barnes "told Officer Felix that he 'might' have the requested documentation in the trunk of the car."
Dash camera video showed what happened next. Felix ordered Barnes to pop the trunk, which he did. Felix asked Barnes to get out of the car, and Barnes opened the driver's side door. But then Barnes restarted the car, prompting Felix to draw his gun, point it at Barnes and say "don't fucking move." As the car began moving, Felix "stepped onto the car with his weapon drawn and pointed at Barnes," "'shoved' his gun into Barnes's head, pushing his head hard to the right," and fired two shots. When the car stopped, Felix "held Barnes at gunpoint until backup arrived [about two minutes later] while Barnes sat bleeding in the driver's seat."
One question raised by Barnes v. Felix, U.S. District Judge Alfred Bennett noted in 2021, is "whether the Court can consider the officer's conduct precipitating the shooting—which included jumping onto a moving vehicle and blindly firing his weapon inside—in determining whether the officer used excessive force in violation of the Fourth Amendment." Under 5th Circuit precedent, he concluded, "the answer is no."
Bennett was not happy with that answer. "By limiting the focus of the judicial inquiry so narrowly as to only examine the precise moment the officer decided to use deadly force," he wrote, "the Fifth Circuit has effectively stifled a more robust examination of the Fourth Amendment's protections when it comes to encounters between the public and the police." He urged the appeals court to "consider the approach applied by its sister courts," which makes it possible to "hold officers accountable when their conduct has directly resulted in the need for deadly force and infringed upon the rights secured by the Fourth Amendment."
In a 2022 ruling, Bennett considered only Felix's decision to draw his gun and point it at Barnes, which he deemed reasonable given that Barnes had restarted his car rather than exiting it as instructed. "The only issue before the Court today was Felix's decision to brandish his gun, not his decision to shoot it," Bennett wrote. But he again urged the 5th Circuit to "review its very narrow approach to deadly force claims."
Judge Patrick Higginbotham, who wrote the 5th Circuit panel opinion upholding the dismissal of Barnes v. Felix, took the extraordinary step of writing a separate concurrence to elaborate on the problems with that "very narrow approach." Bennett "rightfully found that [his] reasonableness analysis under the Fourth Amendment was circumscribed to the 'precise moment' at which Officer Felix decided to use deadly force against Barnes," he wrote. But he argued that "this Circuit's moment of threat doctrine" flouts "the Supreme Court's instruction to look to the totality of the circumstances when assessing the reasonableness of an officer's use of deadly force."
Expressing dismay that "a routine traffic stop has again ended in the death of an unarmed black man," Higginbotham warned that ignoring "an officer's role in bringing about the 'threat' precipitating the use of deadly force lessens the Fourth Amendment's protection of the American public, devalues human life, and 'frustrates the interest of the individual, and of society, in judicial determination of guilt and punishment.'" He noted that Garner's restrictions on the use of deadly force are especially important in light of subsequent Supreme Court rulings that approved pretextual traffic stops and allowed officers to order drivers out of their cars during any legally justified stop. Those decisions, he said, "brought fuel to a surge of deadly encounters between the police and civilians." Given that reality, he argued, it is reckless to undermine Garner by "refusing to look to the totality of the circumstances when a stop leads to the taking of a life."
The 5th Circuit and three other appeals courts "have narrowed the totality of circumstances inquiry by circumscribing the reasonableness analysis of the Fourth Amendment to the precise millisecond at which an officer deploys deadly force," Higginbotham wrote. "The moment of threat doctrine trims Garner with predictable results…eliding the reality of the role [an officer] played in bringing about the conditions said to necessitate deadly force."
But for that doctrine, Higginbotham said, it would be clear that Felix violated the Fourth Amendment. "Given the rapid sequence of events and Officer Felix's role in drawing his weapon and jumping on the running board, the totality of the circumstances merits finding that Officer Felix violated Barnes's Fourth Amendment right to be free from excessive force," he wrote. "This officer stepped on the running board of the car and shot Barnes within two seconds, lest he get away with driving his girlfriend's rental car with an outstanding toll fee. It is plain that the use of lethal force against this unarmed man preceded any real threat to Officer Felix's safety—that Barnes's decision to flee was made before Officer Felix stepped on the running board. His flight prompted Officer Felix to jump on the running board and fire within two seconds."
The "moment of threat" doctrine "is an impermissible gloss on Garner that stifles a robust examination of the Fourth Amendment's protections for the American public," Higginbotham concluded. "It is time for this Court to revisit this doctrine, [or] failing that, for the Supreme Court to resolve the circuit divide over the application of a doctrine deployed daily across this country."
That is what Janice Hughes Barnes is asking the Supreme Court to do. In two previous cases, her petition notes, the Court dodged the issue of how Garner and Graham apply when an officer uses deadly force after endangering himself. But during oral argument in one of those cases, Justice Sonia Sotomayor explained that a court should "look at everything the officer and the victim did that led up to the moment of confrontation." Justice Samuel Alito likewise assumed that "if an officer jumps in front of—or in this case onto—a moving vehicle, 'you look at the entire seizure, the jumping in front of the car plus the ultimate shooting, to determine whether it's reasonable.'"
Barnes "was no threat," his mother's lawyers note. "The threat that Officer Felix faced from the moving vehicle was the immediate consequence of his unreasonable act of
jumping onto the car. Officer Felix should bear responsibility for the foreseeable result of his own actions."
*CORRECTION: The original version of this article conflated Garner's holding with Graham's elaboration.
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Safelite repair, Safelite replace.
JD Vance is wrong about imported windshields. Also toasters.
True but irrelevant to this story.
There are very few cases that I think truly deserve the death penalty but this cop's misbehavior is one of them. Instead, we're quibbling over absurd immunity claims to a civil suit.
Wrong. The driver was not at fault for the toll tickets so should have let the officer complete the stop. The driver should not have tried to drive away and put the officers life at risk. This entire episode happened because of the drivers actions not the officers.
You didn't need to read the story, since the taste of boot leather was so fresh in your mouth. Before you show yourself to be a fool again, you ight read the legal arguments outlined in the article. But then again, I doubt your mind can be changed by facts.
Oh, yeah, kill the driver o the vehicle you're riding on, that always makes you safer. Did anyone check this cop for amphetamines?
Or steroids. It amazes me that it is so rare for a cop accused of excessive force, etc. to be investigated or asked about steroid use despite its being widespread and largely accepted internally.
Quaalufied immunity means the cop gets to keep faith-based asset-forfeiture meth for community perks.
I'm pretty sure the SOP for stopping suspects does not including jumping on a moving car's hood.
This guy has been watching too many movies.
Honestly we can argue about moment of threat and varying doctrines in the circuits but nothing will fundamentally change until the Supreme Court addresses the entire issue of immunity. And that will never happen because while cops enjoy qualified immunity, judges enjoy absolute immunity. It's a subject near and dear to them. The constitution did not create these immunities. The judges blessed themselves and inferior state actors with immunities. So even if the plaintiffs are successful in this case the asshole cop will pay no price. The taxpayers will pay the price. And whatever the supremes decide, hundreds of cases will follow with district and circuit courts parsing the minutia in the footnotes. The fourth was written to protect the citizenry from the awesome power of the state. The state has turned it into parlor game for the elite.
Yes, and judges created absolute immunity for themselves pretty recently, 1976 I think. It's not some centuries-old common law tradition. Or maybe that was when they created it for prosecutors, I forget which. Qualified immunity came along later, 1980s I think.
Government looks out for its own.
The only puzzle to me is why the driver started his engine after opening the door. I doubt he expected dying in response, and there's no excuse for the stupid cop to react by even drawing his gun, but it makes me wonder what else was left out.
I found the cop car dashcam video. Audio is terrible from all the wind and traffic noise. One surprise to me is the driver pulled over into the fast lane shoulder and there's a ton of noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gbM_22fUbY
Start watching about 2:00. Trunk pops open at 2:11. Driver's door opens at 2:23. Cop suddenly steps on the door sill and starts yelling just before the car starts moving at 2:27. Cop seems perfectly calm before then. Driver was an idiot to even turn the engine on with the cop standing right next to him, but the cop was an even bigger idiot to think his safest reaction was to jump onto the door sill, one-handed, and pull his gun with the other hand. Too bad police departments can't be sued so directly that it hurts and forces them to change how they screen who they hire. Maybe this idiot would have been OK as a parole officer or picking up evidence at a crime scene. He sure was no good dealing with the public.
Doesn't answer my question either. What made the driver think starting the engine with the cop right next to him was smart? Like they say in driver's ed, you may have the right of way at an intersection, but you can be dead right too.
I did wonder for a moment if the driver thought there wasn't enough room to get out with the door opening limited by parking too close to the median barrier. But then he should have said something. "I can't get out, can I pull forward?" Doesn't look like it from the cop's posture, and if the cop had room to stand between door and car, there's room for the driver to get out unless he weighed 300 pounds.
Too bad there's no cop camera, or rental car interior dash cam.
I suspect the driver was thinking "the cop will be busy at the trunk so I'll be able to drive off." Dumb decision, to be sure, but should not have been a fatal one.
I don't think that's it. The cop is standing really really close to the driver. He'd have to have been blind to not know he was there and not at the trunk.
They need more illiterate obeases black cunts
Spelling is hard, I know, but try. Without it your comment is unintelligible. With it, your comment is merely idiotic.
The dashcam video is really damning to Reason's decision to write this article at all.
Sullum et al repeatedly act as though getting violent or fleeing during a police interaction should be allowed if the initial crime is minor. That's simply not how it works, especially given that trying to flee mid traffic-stop like this is often evidence of a much more serious crime that the officer is about to discover.
When officers' safety is threatened or uncooperative suspects try to flee, deadly force becomes a possibility even if the initial stop was over an unpaid library fine. Yet somehow the vast majority of us manage not to get shot. Crazy, huh?
Comply or die.
A good way to deal with the bad decision makers, stupid, or generally crazy.
Civil rights lawsuit? The cop should have been charged with homicide!
This ruling would seem to suggest that a police officer could literally hand his weapon to a suspect, forcibly point the gun now in the suspect's hand towards the cop, and the cop would then be justified in using lethal force in defense.
Sort of reminds me of the Philando Castille shooting, because the cop there moved towards the front of the car as he was shouting for Castille not to move. If the cop had wanted to not put himself in harm's way, he would have stepped towards the back of the car, forcing Castille (had he had any hostile intent, which he didn't) to either shoot over his shoulder or turn awkwardly in the driver's seat to try to aim a weapon at the cop. But instead the cop intentionally put himself in harm's way so as to justify a lethal response.
If the police unlawfully put their foot across your doorway, and you do anything to remove their foot, if you wake up from your injuries you will be arrested for assault and battery on many fists and feet.
Sarc, don’t open the door.
The execution of Zachary Hammond is another example of a cop intentionally putting himself in danger so as to justify lethal force.
About three minutes into the stop, Barnes began to drive away.
So, I take it everyone here – including Jakey Jakey News Is Fakey – is just going to skip right past this part?
Barnes was unarmed and did not plausibly pose “a significant threat of death or serious physical injury” to the general public.
Well, so long as you’re not counting the 2000lb death machine he was controlling.
Anyway, let’s get to the meat of it. Should the police give chase to a fleeing suspect that’s an active threat to others, or not? It’s arguable that the cop was in no real danger with the guy driving off. Is there a public safety issue with a fleeing suspect on a highway? Is smoking the guy right then and there the best way to resolve that?
YMMV. Either way, I kinda stopped caring when the perp stopped complying. I mean, it’s not rocket science:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
This, on the other hand, was interesting:
“By limiting the focus of the judicial inquiry so narrowly as to only examine the precise moment the officer decided to use deadly force,” he wrote, “the Fifth Circuit has effectively stifled a more robust examination of the Fourth Amendment’s protections when it comes to encounters between the public and the police.”
So, usually you only get that kind of language from activist judges. See, the thing about the Courts is they really don’t like to rock the boat. This is why SCOTUS avoids social/cultural issues and circumscribes their opinions to specific points of law and constitutionality. A “robust examination” is the Legislature’s (State or Federal) problem, and the Courts (SCOTUS especially) are honestly kinda sick of being asked to do its job. For the Court to take it up sua sponte isn’t really appropriate. But if a State or the Federal Legislature does some stuff involving Fourth Amendment protections, then they, after lots of litigation, might be like, “Um, we’re not sure you can do that.”
USDC’s are kinda worse in that regard. Mainly because they’re not necessarily the last stop on the train. They’re more “if I can get away with it great, if not then SCOTUS will check me.”
But I think it’s interesting that he said it out loud. Is a “more robust examination of the Fourth Amendment” necessary following this tragic event? Maybe. But call your Congressman next time, instead of running to civil court looking for a payout.
I commented on this above, which you apparently didn’t see. The driver was either stupid to drive away, or thought he needed to get farther from the median barrier to open the door enough to get out and had said that to the cop.
The cop was not only dumber than the driver, he was an idiot who should never have been working with the public and carrying a gun. He was never in any danger until he put himself in danger, by climbing onto the door sill, hanging on with one hand, and drawing his gun with the other. No self-preservation instinct, no awareness of his surroundings, just some blind passion to put himself in harm’s way and shoot.
ETA, for emphasis on your ignorance. The "2000lb death machine" could not have injured the cop by moving forward. The cop was standing in the space between the open door and the car body, with the hinge ahead of him. Move forward two feet and he is clear of it. Move forward 10 more feet and he is staring at the tail lights. The ONLY danger the cop was in was from stepping up to stand on the door sill and hanging on with one hand.
The “2000lb death machine” could not have injured the cop by moving forward.
I didn't say it could have injured the cop (in fact, I explicitly said it's arguable that the cop was in no real danger). The problem with this situation was that he intended to escape the scene in a 2000lb death machine. Johnny Law greased him before it could happen, but had that not happened what would have? Perp would have pulled it into traffic to escape Johnny Law, and instigate a chase.
Look at what I replied to: Barnes was unarmed and did not plausibly pose “a significant threat of death or serious physical injury” to the general public.
That was a lie that Fakey Jakey told. He was not unarmed - he was armed with a motor vehicle. He did in fact plausibly pose a significant threat, because he was about to evade arrest on a heavily traveled highway.
Did that warrant a shooting? Eh, fight that out among yourselves. My only point is that this was - once again - a 100% preventable situation, had the perp simply not been a fool. I'm not saying the cop is blameless, I'm just saying that he wasn't the instigator. The dead punk was.
He DID NOT pose a plausible threat. Not at all arguably to the cop, not in any way to the public.
Sure, the driver was stupid, from all appearances, but I proposed an alternative explanation, that he told that cop he was pulling forward to make more room to open the door and get out easier. Whether that’s what happened or not, you don’t even address that.
It was also 100% preventable by the cop not panicking. He’s the one with the training, authorized to pull people over and carry a gun with state-provided immunity for shooting people with the presumption of guilt on their side, not his.
And speaking of presumption of guilt, you call the driver “the perp” and "the dead punk". You betray your copsucker attitude that civilians are perps first, people last.
He DID NOT pose a plausible threat. Not at all arguably to the cop, not in any way to the public.
I already explained to you how he was. Or, were you expecting a white bronco chase perhaps?
I proposed an alternative explanation ... Whether that’s what happened or not, you don’t even address that.
Because A) there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that; and B) it's highly improbable.
Or, if you prefer, because that's stupid rationalizing.
You betray your copsucker attitude
There it is. Which is how we know that you were insincere in your rationalization.
you call the driver “the perp” and “the dead punk”.
Yea, like I said: I kinda stopped caring when the perp stopped complying.
Normal people don't do what he did. Not even slightly. Stop making excuses for him.
He was no more a threat to the public that any other driver pulling away from a cop stop on the side of the road. It's far more probable he wasn't a threat than he was, there was zero possibility of hurting the cop, and no more possibility of being a danger to traffic than anyone else entering from the shoulder.
See, you say he wasn’t complying because you start with the assumption he’s a perp, a punk, and that the cop is the good guy. Normal cops don’t panic and kill people who aren’t a threat. You assume the driver’s not normal, just a perp, and make no allowance for any other possibility, because if the cop pulls him over, he’s a perp, a punk, and you’ve lost all your objectivity. That’s what makes you a copsucker.
Did you even watch that video? The cop’s posture before the driver starts his engine doesn’t show any indication of being with someone dangerous, a perp, a punk. That shows you can’t even be as objective as this cop was before he panicked.
You’re as biased for cops as sarc is for lefties.
AT will defend any level of police retardation, no matter the severity, then accuse you of being an "all cops are bad cops" type. In this instance, he defends the point blank execution of a guy guilty of a few unpaid toll road tickets (and the guy wasn't even the perpetrator of said tickets).
AT also advocates for mass dog slaughter.
If this cop had tracked down the driver’s family and put a bullet in the back of each of their head I have a feeling AT would find some way to blame someone other than the cop. Legislators, the driver’s family, judges, allegedly “ACAB” people…
It only seems that way because the ACAB marxists around here refuse to ever give an objective analysis and a fair shake on this subject. It's just like their anti-Semitism. They'd rather side with literal terrorists than use their brains.
Whatever capacity they have for rationality isn't at work. They have been reflexively prejudiced into seeing things in that dumb, childish "oppressor/oppressed" paradigm, and the cop is always the former in their book - by virtue of being a cop. That's dumb. And it's on display once again in this article.
Were the cop's actions wrong? Yea, there's a pretty valid argument there. Were the perp's? ABSO-FRIGGIN'-LUTELY.
But nobody wants to talk about that part.
Were the cop’s actions wrong? Yea, there’s a pretty valid argument there. Were the perp’s? ABSO-FRIGGIN’-LUTELY.
But nobody wants to talk about that part.
Me, a day ago:
I suspect the driver was thinking “the cop will be busy at the trunk so I’ll be able to drive off.” Dumb decision, to be sure, but should not have been a fatal one.
Hey retard: the objective analysis the Sup Ct says applies in 4th amendment excessive force claims is 'totality of the circumstances' which the 5th circuit among a few other circuits has narrowed to a window of time to the moment when the cop fired their weapon. So an officer who put himself in a situation (like jumping onto a car while pulling their firearm) to allow himself to then use deadly force would be immune from any liability because you have restricted the facts to such a degree as to make it near impossible to have an objective look at ALL the relevant facts. Like the nature of the crime alleged and all other relevant facts.
Which you would know if you had read the fucking article.
Chip: Dumb decision, to be sure, but should not have been a fatal one.
Perhaps - but that doesn't take it out from under the category of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."
Again, this was 100% avoidable. But for his decision to put that car in gear and leave the scene, nothing else would have played out the way that it did. And by focusing squarely on the action - or, more accurately, reaction - of the cop, we're missing the bigger picture.
Should the cop have blasted the guy? YMMV. That's the smaller, less important question. The real question is: would - could - it have ever happened but for the punk's actions? Because the answer to THAT is how you prevent stuff like this from ever going this far in the first place.
Wind: I assume your post wasn't intended for me, since I've said nothing about what standards of law or theories of liability to which the cop should be held. But no worries, it's easy to misplace posts with the goofy way Reason nests its comments - so no offense taken.
(But also, language.)
The real question is: would – could – it have ever happened but for the punk’s actions? Because the answer to THAT is how you prevent stuff like this from ever going this far in the first place.
The answer is, I suspect, more likely than you would think.
https://youtu.be/8ikcRlI3QQM?t=160
Phoenix, AZ cops receive a call about a white guy causing trouble at a convenience store, and when the cops arrive they start beating a black guy up because the white guy the store called the cops about lied about what happened and the cops simply took his word for it.
You'll notice I haven't actually defended the cop here. Just called the dead punk out on his dumb, foolish, dangerous actions that you're all trying to gloss over and ignore.
He was no more a threat to the public that any other driver pulling away from a cop stop on the side of the road.
That's your ACAB talking, not your brain.
See, you say he wasn’t complying because you start with the assumption he’s a perp, a punk,
No, I made it pretty clear that he went from motorist to punk the moment he put that car back in gear.
Normal cops don’t panic and kill people who aren’t a threat.
Again, I never said the cop was blameless here. Just that the perp has his share too. This was 100% avoidable had the punk just followed lawful commands.
Again, go back to the video I posted for a good short education in how to deal with these situations.
Did you even watch that video?
Yes. It's why I'm not defending the cop.
Did you? Because if so, you'd be putting a share of blame on the punk too.
AT, your assertion that the driver was a threat to others is based on... what, exactly? Where is the driver's intent to harm anyone else on display?
Like I said - were you expecting a white bronco chase?
No. When you flee the cops, they are going to chase you. Instigating that - especially in a vehicle - is an inherently dangerous act that is a threat to anyone else on the road.
And at that point, intent is moot. You intended to evade arrest in a motor vehicle. It doesn't matter if you intended to harm anyone while doing so, no different than if you attempted an armed robbery with no desire to do anyone bodily harm.
Now, we can argue the merits of whether it's overall "better" to let a suspect flee to be rounded up another day, rather than to turn to lethal force - a point I intimated in my original post - but insofar as what we're discussing is concerned, the punk has the lion's share of blame for being the one to escalate the situation needlessly. And the ACAB's in here need to own up to that fact, rather than gloss over and/or make excuses for him.
He wasn't going to 'drive away' because he knew damn well the cop would not only follow but call more cops on his ass. He was planning on engaging in a high speed chase. These are inherently dangerous to anyone else on the highway.
Pick up on the all-seeing ku-klux Revelations Prophet!
Unless he was 50% fatter than Gabriel Iglesias at his fattest, he didn't need more room to get out of the fucking car. Which means you dumbfuck son of a bitch, he was planning on fleeing in his vehicle. This means, unless his IQ was lower than the temperature outside(68F), that he was planning(insomuch as morons who get in high speed chases plan anything) on a high speed chase. Combine that with the fact that he tried doing this when his door was open, the cop was between his vehicle and the median, and the events that occurred were not surprising in the least.
So he deserves to be executed for that. Got it.
Guess who else is dipping into confiscated meth...
Comply or die.
A good way to deal with the bad decision makers, stupid, or generally crazy.
Yes, but we're not dealing with them in the present situation.
And, actually, comply or die often IS a good way to deal with what you discussed. During a bank robbery, if a half-dozen guys have swept the room and you've got a gun trained on you are you entertaining some notion of overpowering all the robbers and save the day, like some kind of comic book fantasy of a child? No. You're going to sit down, stay quiet, not move, follow all their commands, and hope they either leave without incident or the cops come save the day.
A good example of what you're suggesting is United 93. Those poor souls were being held at bay by terrorists - and they had learned a critical piece of information: those terrorists had no intent on letting them live. That's when defiance makes more sense than compliance - even if it was a bittersweet end for those heroes.
Such cannot possibly be reasonably argued about the present situation we're discussing. Or pretty much any other traffic stop by a police officer.
Yup this is just a case of people ignoring the facts. Dont drive away in a 1 ton death machine and you won't get shot.
Cop didn't nothing wrong.
And I oppose police brutality but this isn't it.
The landmark cases of Police Officer v Moving Vehicle and Fleeing Suspect v Hollowpoint may come into play here.
Only red SUVs are weapons.
So the argumentbhere is that Barnes was free to flee from a legitimate traffic stop because the cop is Constitutionally prohibited from doing anything about it?
Keep in mind the cop does not know what the situation the car is, who Barnes really is, just that he is trying to flee the stop. It was an incredibly stupid thing for Barnes to do, and won him a Darwin Award.
Agreed. The only logical response is BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM. Sad, but there was no other option.
Cop: "Take my gun."
Citizen: "What?"
Cop: "I said take my loaded gun and point it at me or you're under arrest for refusing a lawful order."
Citizen: "Uhhh, okay."
Cop: "GUN GUN GUN!!" BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Judge: "Good shoot."
"Officer Felix should bear responsibility for the foreseeable result of his own actions."
Well, I hope that the Supreme Court reverses this ridiculous ruling from the lower courts, but Officer Felix will NOT bear responsibility for his own actions as a result of any Federal lawsuit alleging violation of Barnes' Fourth Amendment rights. Even if damages were to be assessed for his wrongful death, Officer Felix will not pay them, his employer and the taxpayers will pay any such penalties, and it's unlikely that Officer Felix will suffer any other adverse consequences of his reckless moment of machismo either. Although the tide may be turning finally, police officers continue to get away with murder on an almost daily basis in America.
HOUSTON: "a routine traffic stop has again ended in the death of an unarmed black man,"... NOW would be a good time to lift the judicial ban on Austin's Uranium Savages' cover rendition of Hank Williams' "On The Bayou. --With a badge and a gun
gonna have big fun, On the Bayou" was played all over Texas radio after Houston cops murdered a veteran and dumped his body into the swamp under the elevated highway. Then a Ku Klux judge ordered the records BURNED like it was an Alabama Beatles-lynching!
Quick. What year is this?
Are your ears prejudiced, or did the cover band change the lyrics? Hank Williams sang "Son of a gun, we'll have big fun on the bayou". I just checked again, but I've been listening to that song since I was a year old, and it never referred to a badge, or a gun in the literal sense.
https://youtu.be/Y0znZnMOhRY
Breaking news: Corrupt Houston cop Gerald Goines sentenced to sixty years for felony murder: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/crime/article/gerald-goines-sentenced-harding-street-19823081.php?utm_content=cta&sid=62a5e4f84bf310076d34c395&ss=A&st_rid=0f11070d-57fa-40e3-bf9c-fff18e448a44&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=news&utm_campaign=HC_BreakingNews
Fear of the Comply or Die tactic is how police coerce people into obeying any and all commands, no matter how unlawful the command may be, and many, many commands by officers in the field are unlawful. They assume you do not know your rights, and you will be arrested even if the command you disobey was unlawful. Officers know the courts and their superiors will defend the actions later, or simply look the other way because police coercion is such a ubiquitous technique they all use. In these comments above, you will see a handful of commentors defending this tactic. The fact that a human being lost his life over a poor decision is completely lost on them. I am extremely glad no police were around when I have made some of my poorest life decisions, none of which I deserved to die for.
So had Barnes simply followed orders instead of acting like an escaping criminal, he’d still be alive?
Or had the cop let a potential criminal escape after being pulled over, Barnes would still be alive.
What is the incentive here? If we blame Barnes, then people will stop resisting police and live more. Or, cops should let criminals escape more because it might turn out the person is just a moron. Byt mostly just a bunch of criminals will escape. Blame Barnes. That idiot should have followed orders. Humanity evolves.
So Barnes deserved to be executed with no judicial review of any alleged crimes? In this instance, the only alleged crimes the officer had on him was unpaid toll road tickets (that Barnes was innocent of, turns out) and illegally leaving a traffic stop scene.
He deserved to be executed for that?
That is social evolution to you?
So had Barnes simply followed orders instead of acting like an escaping criminal, he’d still be alive?
Not necessarily, when anything the cops claim is a 'furtive movement' is also more often than not a justification for the use of lethal force. Imagine if citizens treated every traffic stop as if they were being approached by a trained killer who is very likely to murder them. Because that's how cops are trained to approach traffic stops -- they routinely remind each other that every traffic stop could be their last.
By contrast, if American police had the same rules of engagement in America as American soldiers in war zones more cops would face consequences for unjustified shootings.
The more common scenario and one I have personally observed on more than one occasion is where an officer (not me) who suspects a driver is going to flee draws their weapon and jumps in front of the vehicle.
Fortunately on those occasions the driver stopped.
In one incident the officer missed when he fired his weapon multiple times through a van’s rear window. On that occasion the officer had jumped behind the vehicle on purpose as the driver was backing.
It’s usually bravado combined with stupidity on the part of the officer(s) in these kinds of situations.
I will admit on one occasion when I stopped a woman for speeding and while I was about to hand her a citation to sign, she started cranking up her window. I foolishly place my hand on her window in an unsuccessful attempt to stop her from rolling it up. I found myself standing there unable to liberate my hand from her care as she fired up her engine. I drew my service revolver, pointed it at her head and ordered her to turn the car off or I’d shoot her. Thankfully for both of us she complied.
She signed the citation and off she went. I had a crease in n my hand that lasted the rest of my shift.
Guess who would still be alive if he didn't try to drive away from a lawful traffic stop? This is more like another case of an entitled grievance class punk who has been trained that the laws do not apply to him so ignored the cop and tried to driver away. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Expecting to be treated within the parameters of the law is being a “entitled grievance class punk” who thinks laws don’t apply to him?
Man, you don’t even make sense.
Sign in and take a seat. The prescriber will be in to see you shortly.
In the first place, shooting the driver is not the way to stop a moving car. It probably gets the driver's foot off the accelerator, but it does not cancel the car's momentum. Without a foot on the pedal, the car is going to keep on rolling for a while, so if you are in immediate danger from it, you didn't stop the danger. Perhaps the cop can plead abject stupidity, but the department ought to be on the hook for hiring a dangerous fool and issuing a gun.
And it could be worse. I've had a few vehicles that I had to keep a foot on the brake if the engine was running and the transmission in Drive, or they'd have taken off by themselves and kept going to the next up-hill. Any 1960's high performance car would do that, because the idle had to be set high or it would stall.
Or even worse, the driver might fall forward and jam his foot on the accelerator. Now the cop that thought his life was in danger from a slowly moving car and lacked the sense to get out of the way is _really_ in danger.
Yes, the driver was an idiot to take off before the cop let him go (did he have a shipment of crack in the trunk?), but the cop was a worse idiot to grab onto the car and shoot him. He should have stepped back, waited until the car was past him, and then if he thought it that important to find out why the driver was fleeing, shot at a rear tire.