Joker: Folie à Deux Is a Miserable Musical Slog
The comic-book sequel is a dull, dismal, event-free recap of its predecessor.

Sometime over the past several years, a particular meme-like social media post format became popular: Someone would post someone saying something that was totally self-contradictory or self-undermining, something so patently crazy or ridiculous that no sane and reasonable person could possibly accept it.
Given the timing, this was probably at least partially the result of the 2019 movie Joker, an origin story in which Batman's archnemesis was portrayed as a dim, desperate, depressed loser who snaps in response to an uncaring, ugly world that seems formless and out of control.
Well, I'm here to tell you that I have seen the follow-up, Joker: Folie à Deux, and that it is such an inert, joyless, unpleasant slog, I struggle to conceive of how it got made or to plausibly imagine what any sane person could have been thinking during the development or production.
Joker: Folie à Deux is a two-hour-plus, event-free recapitulation of the events of the previous film. Nothing happens. The first Joker was ugly in spirit and had essentially one thematic note, but there was at least a steady progression toward a moment when the titular character would finally manifest in full. The sequel has no such progression, and indeed very little narrative at all. It's mostly just a recap of the first film, plus some underwhelming musical numbers in a courtroom setting. It's lifeless, pointless, and humorless throughout.
How, again, did this movie get made? Just—how?
Dear readers: I am going to become the Joker.
The obvious answer to that question, unfortunately, is probably that the first Joker made $1 billion worldwide at the box office and also generated some Oscar noms, a rare feat for a grimy R-rated comic-book film. This necessitated a sequel, and also gave director and co-writer Todd Phillips more control.
And what Phillips seems to have wanted, more than anything else, was to make a feature-length rebuke to fans of the first film, especially fans who thought Arthur Fleck—the sad, disturbed, lonely man who becomes a famous murder clown—was kind of cool.
The first film was about this too, in a way casting the Joker's rise as a cautionary tale about the viral allure of crazy people committing sensationalistic acts while being egged on by the media. It wasn't a good movie, but Joaquin Phoenix's gaunt, menacing portrayal of the title character was charged with anarchic energy, and its Martin Scorsese-inspired portrayal of Gotham by way of New York around 1980 made a great backdrop for its tale of a desperate clown going murderously mad.
For the follow-up, Phillips has chosen to return to the events of the first film, reviewing them in conversations between Fleck and his lawyer in a sensationalistic TV interview, and finally in a trial that takes up much of the movie's second half. At every point that Phillips could have moved the story forward, or allowed something to happen, he slams on the brakes and demands instead that the movie gaze backward. It's an extended sneer of a film that spends most of its time not only recapitulating all the ways that its main character is and was awful, but insisting that if you enjoyed the first movie as a fan, you probably are too.
To this dull setup, Phillips adds two new, related elements. First, there is Lady Gaga as Joker's crazy flame, Harley Quinn. Second, and presumably because of the first, the sequel is a musical of sorts with a handful of set-piece singing numbers that showcase Fleck's deteriorating mental state. Gaga's job is to sing and look the part, and she does both reasonably well. Yet, outside of a pyromaniac meet-cute with Mr J., the movie gives her very little to do.
Still, she's the only character with anything like an arc or a transformation: At the end, she becomes Harley Quinn, Joker's tormented sidekick and lover. Yet her climactic moment comes when she finally shows up in clown makeup and costume, as a camera-ready reflection of her superfan obsession: In that moment, she becomes the Joker too.
Quinn was introduced three decades ago in Batman: The Animated Series, an animated children's show that also offered surprisingly sophisticated takes on the caped crusader and his weirdo rogue's gallery. It located the rude and rowdy characters of the Joker and Harley Quinn not in their tortured biographies or their cracked psychologies, but in their zany, warped, comically violent actions and interactions with each other.
In retrospect, it serves as a counterpoint to Phillips' glumly, literal mytho-psychologizing. The show's leering, menacing, playfully psychopathic Joker, voiced with maniac glee by Mark Hamill, was fully realized rather than fully explained. The crazy didn't get to him. He was the crazy that got to everyone else.
To put it another way: He didn't become the Joker—he just was the Joker.
It's a far more frightening way to explain the persistence of madness in the world, the terror of the violent unknown. And in its implied reversal of the meme, it suggests a worrying possibility: Maybe instead of suddenly cracking at the craziness of an insane world, we've all always been the Joker all along.
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Do you give it two JD Vance thumbs down?
Jd Vance was wrong about this movie.
And if there are any toasters featured in this movie we can blame Vance for the production being over budget.
Because JD Vance is Wrong!
dang. sad clown face.
I never saw the original The Joker. And, really, I'm not sure I have much interest in doing so. But, this panning, especially coming from Suderman doesn't do much to discredit it or the new sequel. In a state of affairs where the society we inhabit and are ruled under is plausibly described as "Clown World", Suderman's dismissal over the years of the prevailing state of madness as wonkish legitimacy makes his thesis that the titular character's decent into madness in reflection is wrong seem like gaslighting.
In a world where we're told by respectable opinion we must be crowded into cities to own nothing and eat bugs, madness isn't so easy to pinpoint as Suderman would have us believe.
The first movie was fine, and a novel take on the Joker with great performances all around. This movie was Todd Phillips angry and throwing a tantrum and destroying the first movie because of the fact that people liked that Joker; as apparently Phillips is incapable of separating the fact that people can like someone as a character in a piece of fiction and people liking someone in reality. Not unlike the entire impetus of Season 4 of The Boys really.
2/3rds of the movie is just a recap of the first, with explanations showing exactly which moments were Fleck's hallucinations vs reality, with the other third being musical numbers and Fleck's interaction with TEMU Harley Quinn. None of the performances are actually bad mind you, but it just retreads ground that already was done, just without the musical numbers and sidekick. As for the musical numbers themselves, again not bad, but none of them advance the plot or reveal new information. They just explain what already happened or is currently happening in music form.
At least this reveiw is more than 3 sentences.
I only read three sentences and that was enough for me.
"Quinn was introduced three decades ago in Batman: The Animated Series, an animated children's show that also offered surprisingly sophisticated takes on the caped crusader and his weirdo rogue's gallery. It located the rude and rowdy characters of the Joker and Harley Quinn not in their tortured biographies or their cracked psychologies, but in their zany, warped, comically violent actions and interactions with each other. "
Fast forward to today, they have transformed her into a girl-bossing lesbian with Poison Ivy.
Nah. the lesbianing was pure fanservice to all the guys who wanted to see Harley and Ivy going at it --maybe with Selena and Barbara joining in.
Everyone was fine with that.
It was the idiot girlbossing. Everyone liked it when Harley got the last laugh, no one liked it when the whole thing was twisted so Harley was the only one allowed to laugh.
Gagaharley? Who knows?
Her relationship with Ivy was in the original. The episode in which they meet and Harley leaves Joker very clearly implied that they were together as a couple, up to and including them wearing nothing visible but oversized T-shirts when Bruce barges into Ivy’s lair.
The problem, as always, is the writing. You have to balance a tragic comedy character. To do Harley right, you need to laugh at her antics while wanting to give her a hug and tell her things will be alright. However, the different authors have taken her from one extreme to the other. Suicide Squad heavily emphasizing the tragic (with way too much sexualization) and her own series became a wacky gag sitcom, closer in tone to Family Guy than anything from DC.
I remember that episode. There was also the episode (or was that the same episode?) where the two hypnotized Bruce Wayne to get him to pay for a shopping spree. In any case, I always saw it as more of a "gal pal" type deal than what it has become now.
Go watch "Harley and Ivy" again. It's on Youtube.
While later episodes, especially the Christmas one, were more silly, the first was really explicit both in Ivy's feminist extremism (almost to the point of eclipsing her eco-terror) and how they were almost certainly having a fling.
I recall one interview with Bruce Timm saying that he was shocked it was allowed to air uncut.
Penguin got his dick cut off in the new Amazon Dark Knight cartoon.
From what I hear, this sounds like it succumbs to some of the same trappings as Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, The Matrix 4, and even, from a previous era, Episodes 1, 2, and 3. A bit of, in other fields, “Second-System Syndrome”.
Where the studio has no ability to find an original idea of their own, so they throw all their money at someone who hasn’t quite said “I won’t make a sequel for any amount of money.”, but knows to say, “And I get total creative control. Even if I wind up making a musical, no one is going to stop me, right?” in response.
All the acting, plot lines, and executions/performance are all good, or at least not bad, but, when everything is fitted together, it’s a choppy, rambling 'meh'.
It's funny you bring up Matrix 4. That one specifically would have worked very well as a 20th anniversary TV special rather than an independent movie. The first half especially was more or less an introspective view on the Matrix itself.
My mind is blown as to how 'Beetlejuice Beetlejuice' didn't get split into two movies. There are two distinct plotlines stumbling over each other with the standard "horror-comedy" bits sprinkled through the whole film. Pulling the plotlines apart with the Deetzes in Beetlejuice 2 and Delores in Beetljuice 3 would've made a full character-redemption arc, allowed for more horror-comedy shenanigans, and exorcised all of the demons.
As indicated the only thing I can figure is either a case of "Nobody can tell Tim Burton how to make a Beetlejuice movie!" or "I'm never going to get this amount of money to make a sequel, so I better get it all out now."
It was good. Michael Keaton hasn't lost a step in 30 yrs. But it was a lot for one film.
Yikes, early IMDb.com scores are shockingly low for a sequel to a beloved original.
Joker 2: 5.4 / 10
Joker: 8.4 / 10
Usually it takes huge franchises several entries to fall off by a full 3 stars like that. 🙁
It gets what it fucking deserves!
Did you like the original?
Yes, but I find it a bit overrated at 8.4. I gave it 7 which on my scale means good, possibly very good - but not great.
Were you happy to hear there was going to be a sequel when that news first arrived?
The first Joker movie was a good movie, although it was hard to picture Mr. Fleck ever being smart enough to become the Joker of the comic books and previous Batman movies.
This second Joker movie just sounds like a mess.
Except Joker has never been synonymous with the incel movement. And it wasn't followed by people for that. Joker wasn't cool. No one wanted to be him. They were impressed at the realization of a horror villain protagonist.
And don't mistake. Joker was a horror movie. A political horror movie. The first Joker movie was clearly and unambiguously a fictionalization of Occupy Wall Street, both in its causes and results. The dance of Joker down to the train was glorious in the same way of Freddy Kreuger showing that he survived the heroes attempts and is now coming for them.
Cesar Romero will always be the Joker.
His Joker is arguably the most comic book accurate version. No tragic back story, no deep motivations. Just a theatrical lunatic who jumps from one grandiose scheme to another.
Romero was the perfect Joker for the 1966 TV/Adam West Batman adaptation of the Dave Kane Comics.
For Nolan's adaptation of the Frank Miller "Dark Knight" interpretation, Heath Ledger was the villain that version needed. Ledger's darker and menacing character would be as out of place in the Adam West series/movie as Romero's much campier incarnation would have been slugging it out with Bale.
Here's the thing about the Joker.
He's insane. As much as I liked Heath Ledger's Joker, and as much as it fit with the Nolan idea of a Batman fiction, even when he flat out said, "Do I look like a man with a plan?" despite obviously having a very complicated and specific one? That's just NOT Joker. Same goes with Joaquin Phoenix's. It's overcomplicating him. It's trying to explain him. When the reality is that NOBODY can explain the Joker. That's the point. Jared Leto's Joker... well, let's not talk about that.
The Joker, in print and animation, is the kind of guy who wakes up in the morning and randomly decides to poison the city's water supply. He's the kind of guy who think's it'd be funny to bomb an orphanage for the lols. He's the kind of guy who might randomly and inexplicably decide to put on a beach outfit and then go shoot Barbara Gordon. The sheer randomness of the Joker is what defines him. And it's what takes special talent to really write him well.
He is an avatar of chaos in its most primal form. That's it. Nothing more. If you're thinking any harder than that about him, you're overthinking him. There was a great run about two decades back - I think it was at the end of Infinite Crisis, but it was about ALL the supervillains teaming up led by "Lex" Luthor. And he explicitly made it a point to exclude Joker - literally, Joker was the only one not invited - because he was too random and unpredictable. (And, lol, not including Joker ultimately led to Joker killing him.) And for him, it's all just a never ending game. He doesn't actually care whether his hijinks succeed or fail. He has this romance with Harley, but he'll just as immediately abandon her or attack her. He's never disappointed or angry that his schemes were foiled, he just moves onto to the next thing without a care in the world.
Overcomplicating the Joker, the way this film apparently does, is missing the point of Joker. He's not complicated. He's just completely totally chaotically insane.
The first Phillips/Phoenix Joker movie was almost more a tonal remake of Taxi Driver with a veneer of "comic book" wrapped around it, including the somewhat contrived interaction between Fleck and Bruce Wayne. The real highlight of the first movie is the performances, IMO.
The second one was definitely not the movie I walked into the theater expecting to watch (even having read this review), but I enjoyed it. There's a major turn in the story at the very end which I'm not sure that Suderman noticed, though.