Determined To Avoid Presidential Paralysis, SCOTUS Endorses Presidential Impunity
We need not conjure "extreme hypotheticals" to understand the danger posed by an "energetic executive" who feels free to flout the law.

Challenging the federal indictment stemming from his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election, Donald Trump argued that former presidents can be prosecuted for "official acts" only if they are first impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate based on the same conduct. While rejecting that claim last week, the U.S. Supreme Court left open the possibility that former presidents cannot be prosecuted even then.
Those seemingly contradictory conclusions reflect a ruling with potentially sweeping implications for presidential accountability. Although Justice Amy Coney Barrett maintained in her partial concurrence that the "constitutional protection from prosecution" recognized by the Court is "narrow" when "properly conceived," the decision will make it difficult, if not impossible, to hold former presidents criminally liable even for outrageous abuses of power.
Both sides in the case agreed that a former president can be prosecuted for "unofficial acts," a point that Chief Justice John Roberts affirmed in his majority opinion. But Roberts added that a former president is "absolutely immune from criminal prosecution for conduct within his exclusive sphere of constitutional authority."
It is not clear exactly which conduct falls into that "exclusive sphere," although Roberts said conversations in which Trump urged the Justice Department to investigate his bogus claims of systematic election fraud clearly did. Adding to the uncertainty, the majority said even "official acts" outside "the core" of a president's duties merit "at least a presumptive immunity from criminal prosecution," which the government can overcome only if it "can show that applying a criminal prohibition to that act would pose no 'dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch.'"
The strictness of that test, combined with the lack of clarity about which acts are "official," suggests that the distinction between "absolute" and "presumptive" immunity is apt to dissolve in practice. And even if it proves meaningful, the Court said absolute immunity might ultimately be required for all conduct "within the outer perimeter" of a president's "official responsibility."
Under the majority's reasoning, Justice Sonia Sotomayor warned in a dissent joined by Justices Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, a president "will be insulated from criminal prosecution" when he "uses his official powers in any way." That shield, Sotomayor said, would extend to a president who "orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival," who "organizes a military coup to hold onto power," who "takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon," or who insists that the Justice Department use fabricated evidence in a criminal case.
Instead of explaining why immunity would not apply in such situations, Roberts faulted Sotomayor for "fear mongering on the basis of extreme hypotheticals." He dismissed the threat posed by lawless presidents because he was focused on the supposed need to protect "an energetic executive" from the threat of criminal liability.
As Sotomayor noted, however, presidents have been operating under that threat for a long time. "Every sitting President," she wrote, "has so far believed himself under the threat of criminal liability after his term in office and nevertheless boldly fulfilled the duties of his office."
Former President Richard Nixon, who did not suffer from a notable lack of executive energy, evidently shared that long-standing assumption. After he resigned amid the Watergate scandal, Nixon accepted a pardon from his successor, Gerald Ford, that covered any federal offenses he may have committed as president.
According to the proposed articles of impeachment, those offenses included many acts that would count as "official" in Roberts' book, such as "false or misleading public statements," misuse of the CIA and the IRS, and interference with an FBI investigation. If Nixon was immune from prosecution for those acts, his pardon is a bit of a puzzle.
As that episode illustrates, we need not conjure "extreme hypotheticals" to understand the danger of a president who feels unbound by the law. In the real world, the risk of presidential paralysis pales beside the risk of presidential impunity.
© Copyright 2024 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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We need not conjure "extreme hypothetical" to understand the danger posed by an "energetic executive" who feels free to flout the law.
This argument would have more force if criminal prosecution had regularly been used as a method to keep the executive in check.
Great point.
I mean, both Dubya and Obama started wars on false pretenses.
Why weren't they tried for war crimes?
I mean, why should it matter if Trump whined about a stolen election, or even did forgery or perjury?
It's like having a hissy fit over the "misogyny" of Alec Baldwin yelling at his daughter, while giving brian Mitchell, Scott Petersen, and Richard Speck the medal of freedom!
Why weren’t they tried for war crimes?
Do you have particular criminal statutes in mind on the American law books re the particular war crimes? You know - actual charges?
Murder for Obama, seeing as he drone bombed an American Citizen without even the fig leaf of Due Process?
There was a lawsuit to take that guy off the targeted kill list - a year or so before he was killed. IDK the details of that lawsuit - but the federal judge ruled that he was to remain on the kill list and that any decision re that (being on the kill list though maybe not being killed on a kill list) was a political decision not a judicial one.
Again idk the details of kill list v murder or the details of the operation - but clearly there was SOME judicial process that did occur. So the politicized statements about that incident are at best deliberately misleading.
If there was a violation of murder laws, then Obama/etc are culpable. If there wasn't a violation of murder laws, then maybe those who object to his murder should try a bit harder to close off ways in which people end up on kill lists. That latter sure as fuck ain't gonna happen now with absolute immunity.
I was actually thinking about his teenage son who wasn’t on any kill list afaik (leaving aside the dubious legality of the US government maintaining any kind of kill list).
His daughter, also American and 8 at the time, was killed by Seal Team in 2017 (Ordered by Trump in that case).
In each of those cases, there may be a big problem with internal processes of govt and a part of the judicial branch (the DC circuit) that is completely corrupted and not a check on the executive. But it was not an example of Prez going rogue because of blanket immunity. Or not until last week.
Condemning it would also be more credible if it were not a reaction to lefty lawfare against Trump. The two flimsy impeachments, Hillary constantly barking about the stolen election, all these ridiculous charges he's facing, the corrupt FBI/CIA/NSA tricks, even the incredibly petty stuff like the wrong valuation of Mar-A-Lago. Maybe if the Dems hadn't been so deranged and hadn't started this bizarre lawfare deep state coup, the Supreme Court never would have gotten involved.
Karma, bitches.
Jason Willick wrote about this.
https://archive.md/khllI
***START QUOTE***
The New York Times described the Trump investigation this way: “Department leaders believed that the best way to justify prosecuting Mr. Trump and the Willard [Hotel] plotters was to find financial links between them and the rioters — because they thought it would be more straightforward and less risky than a case based on untested election interference charges.” Investigators’ inability to build a straightforward case tying Trump to the violence offered Garland the option of honorably declining to prosecute. But he didn’t take it.
***END QUOTE***
***START QUOTE***
Had Trump been charged under a well-defined statute for what former attorney general William P. Barr has called a “meat-and-potatoes crime,” the Supreme Court might have been more likely to let the case go to trial without a ruling on presidential immunity — or to tailor immunity more narrowly. But because Trump’s terrible post-election behavior consisted mostly of broadcasting political lies, there was no such crime available. The Justice Department fell back on broad and inchoate charges.
If Garland’s prosecutors were determined to bring a case based on untested laws against a former president, they could have at least drawn up a clear, narrow indictment — perhaps limited to the fake elector slates Trump’s campaign submitted to Congress. But Garland’s prosecutors threw everything into the indictment they could, even alleging that Trump’s threat to remove an acting attorney general was criminal. Roberts was having none of it: “As we have explained, the President’s power to remove ‘executive officers of the United States whom he has appointed’ may not be regulated by Congress or reviewed by the courts.
***END QUOTE***
Even the judge loch ness was way off, Mar-a-Lago is only worth about tree-fiddy.
Yes, it was always the extremist position that the courts should be subservient to the leadership.
It is always the position of TDS-addled lefty shits to address strawmen. FOAD, asshole
I'm so old, I can remember when brainwashed conservatives complained about Bush Derangement Syndrome. The people doing your thinking used the same acronym because they have no respect for the intelligence of their voters, changing only the name. You are an impressive freethinker.
A better way - and one more often used by Americans in the past - was, if possible, don't elect the criminal.
Unfortunately, he's already POTUS.
Has Jacob Sullum found the evidence that George Zimmerman actually lynched Trayvon Martin yet?
As Sotomayor noted, however, presidents have been operating under that threat for a long time. "Every sitting President," she wrote, "has so far believed himself under the threat of criminal liability after his term in office and nevertheless boldly fulfilled the duties of his office."
Horseshit on a cracker. And not surprising from our dumbest judge.
Was it Ford or the Supreme Court that pardoned Nixon?
What's dumb about this?
the text of the Constitution,,,as understood by the ratifying public and incorporated into an early circuit opinion by Chief Justice Marshall, does not support the President’s claim of absolute immunity
The text of the Constitution explicitly addresses the privileges of some federal officials, but it does not afford the President absolute immunity. Members of Congress are “privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same,” except for “Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace.” Art. I, §6, cl. 1. The Constitution further specifies that, “for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.” Ibid. By contrast, the text of the Constitution contains no explicit grant of absolute immunity from legal process for the President. As a Federalist essayist noted during ratification, the President’s “person is not so much protected as that of a member of the House of Representatives” because he is subject to the issuance of judicial process “like any other man in the ordinary course of law.” An American Citizen I (Sept. 26, 1787), in 2 Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution 141 (M. Jansen ed. 1976) (emphasis deleted).
Prominent defenders of the Constitution confirmed the lack of absolute Presidential immunity. James Wilson, a signer of the Constitution and future Justice of this Court, explained to his fellow Pennsylvanians that “far from being above the laws, [the President] is amenable to them in his private character as a citizen, and in his public character by impeachment.” Debates on the Constitution 480 (J. Elliot ed. 1891) (emphasis in original). James Iredell, another future Justice, observed in the North Carolina ratifying convention that “[i]f [the President] commits any crime, he is punishable by the laws of his country.” id., at 109. A fellow North Carolinian similarly argued that, “[w]ere it possible to suppose that the President should give wrong instructions to his deputies, . . . citizens . . . would have redress in the ordinary courts of common law.” Id., at 47; see also Americanus No. 2, in 19 Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution 288–289 (J. Kaminski & G. Saladino eds. 2003); Americanus No. 4, in id., at 359.
The sole authority that the President cites from the drafting or ratification process is The Federalist No. 69, but it provides him no real support. Alexander Hamilton stated that “[t]he President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes or misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law.” The Federalist No. 69, p. 416 (C. Rossiter ed. 1961). Hamilton did not say that the President was temporarily immune from judicial process. Moreover, he made this comment to reassure readers that the President was “amenable to personal punishment and disgrace.” Id., at 422. For the President, this is at best ambiguous evidence that cannot overcome the clear evidence discussed above.
There was no originalist interpretation of immunity by the majority. Roberts was put on the court imo to expand the power of the Prez to torture, to permanently detain anyone deemed an enemy, to enhance rendition, to ensure no restraints re treaties, to move trials arbitrarily to military tribunals (or simply delay them forever). All the shit that Bush did early on and that the courts were persnickety about and that Roberts was put on the DC circuit to clear a path for. None of which is actually mentioned as the 'extreme hypotheticals' - in large part because really who gives a shit about the rights of terrorist ragheads.
This case was just a convenient way for Roberts to eliminate restraints on the President by pretending that Hamilton's monarchical views of the Presidency were 'the founders view'. Rather than rejected by every founder except Hamilton.
What is impressive - in a very ugly way - is how easy it was for Roberts to assemble a majority of justices for that perspective.
…in which Trump urged the Justice Department to investigate his bogus claims of systematic election fraud clearly…
Haven’t heard “systematic” yet. You get an A+ in finding new weasel words to dismiss the voter fraud that occurs in this country, fucking hack.
There was very limited fraud, certainly not remotely enough to affect the result of the election - and no suit alleged fraud in court.
Why you lot keep claiming this widescale fraud is a matter for psychologists as much as anyone.
Your denial that the election hinged on fewer than 100,000 votes is a matter for you and your conscience. FOAD, asshole.
Where is the specific authority in the Constitution for the President to oversee elections - in which he is a candidate and a beneficiary of the outcome - and which are specifically a STATE level authority in the Constitution?
His general police power. When there is a law broken (and this would clearly cross countless state lines), as the head of the justice department, he has full authority to order an investigation.
Also, as a private person, he has full access to both the media and the courts of law to push for investigations. Just as Gore did. Just as Clinton did. Just as Obama did against Trump, putting multiple investigations, including outright spying on the Trump campaign.
You are full of shit which is why you cannot enumerate one specific thing from the Constitution.
Further - there is NOTHING in the post-Prez indictments that criminalizes the mere investigations by the Justice Dept or the lawsuits or the court actions.
At core - your ilk are either nihilists, traitors, or fascists. You have no ethics whatsoever. Your only principle is to do whatever in order to 'own the libs' because libs get upset about attempted coups.
Please resign and get a real job, Jacob. You contribute nothing of value here. Maybe you and Fiona can buy a food truck.
Better yet, fuck off and die, Sullum.
“It is not clear exactly which conduct falls into that “exclusive sphere,” although Roberts said conversations in which Trump urged the Justice Department to investigate his bogus claims of systematic election fraud clearly did.”
Does Sullum consider it a crime to investigate claims of election fraud, or only if those claims are “bogus”? If you cannot investigate claims of election fraud, how is it determined that the claims are bogus? Or is it only a crime to investigate election fraud when Democrats win or Donald Trump loses? Under the system Sullum proposes, is there any any legal recourse for election fraud if a GOP President is the losing candidate?
No, there's no recourse. Current law provides no way to contest an election. If you don't get caught cheating until after the results are certified, you win, and that can't be undone.
That may or may not be. But how does giving the Prez immunity for breaking the law solve that problem?
Who said it would?
Let's just ignore the 60-ish court cases that the Trump campaign filed.
No, no legal recourse at all.
Sullum is putting forth asking for an investigation is a crime.
No he is not. If you don't understand the actual charges in the indictment, then perhaps you should read them.
And even if Roberts goal was to quash those indictments because he viewed it as 'lawfare' from one administration to the next - there is ZERO rationale that creating immunity is even remotely a reasonable solution. It is in fact unconstitutional since it provides a blanket pardon power for every President - TO THE SUPREME COURT.
Let's just ignore the fact that almost all the cases were dismissed with no opportunity to present the evidence.
And let's just be really clear what you are advocating for here.
If the losing incumbent AS CANDIDATE loses all his court cases challenging the election results, then it's perfectly acceptable for the losing incumbent AS PRESIDENT to keep going and to do an end-run around those judicial decisions.
End-runs around those judicial decision?
Well, NY loves to do that with 2A issues. Maybe Trump picked it up from watching NY politicians.
What end-run was there? From all appearances, once you remove the pearl-clutching and fake-fainting, all that Trump did was protests and appeals.
That is not the opinion of EVERY living SecDef (including both Mattis and Esper). Specifically - Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, Leon Panetta, William Perry, Donald Rumsfeld, Jim Mattis and Mark Esper penned and signed -
Who on Jan 4 2021, had a jointly issued letter published in the WaPo stating that there is no role for the US military in getting into election disputes. That followed well-sourced discussions in the Oval Office a week or two earlier about how to implement martial law – which in turn followed from TV interviews from Flynn about why martial law was needed and how it would be invoked. Those Oval Office discussions led directly to Trump’s tweets to call insurrectionists to DC on Jan6). And the Jan4 letter was followed, during the insurrection, by taunts from Trump to Pelosi saying ‘Do you want me to call up the National Guard to stop this?’
It is not a surprise that your ilk has no ethics whatsoever.
Some specifics from that letter:
Each of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We did not swear it to an individual or a party
Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory
Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic
Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived
What is the explicit authority of the Prez - enumerated in the Constitution - to decide on elections?
Where was there anything about deciding an election? You are strawmanning what I wrote.
Name ANY explicit Prez authority in the Constitution re elections. And in particular elections where the Prez is a candidate/beneficiary?
Trump's crimes are:
1) Winning against Her
2) Challenging Them
3) Refusing to bend the knee
4) Daring to campaign again
Again, this immunity decision would have been terrific if we were back in the 1790’s version of the executive branch, where the presidential powers were few and limited. But in today’s government, presidential powers are numerous, relying on broad delegations of power from Congress. So virtually anything that the president might conceivably do can be shoe-horned into an “official act” with a clever-enough rationalization based on some vague law passed by Congress some eons ago.
If this is the way we are going to do things, then it is now up to Congress to limit the chief executive’s power so that clearly wrong behavior can be deprived of a grant of immunity. But which president is going to sign a bill limiting his own power when he knows that under the status quo, with vague and broad grants of authority, he will be given immunity?
That's stupid. You're saying it would have been ok in 1790, in which case it would still be precedent for today. But you're also saying it's not ok today.
Make up your mind.
The biggest problem the US has faced for the last 240 years is a Prez that is too weak because they are constrained by the rule of law.
No, it's lying piles of shit like you.
The decision is to balance between the ability to perform the duties of the office, justice for any crimes committed, and being prosecuted for political reasons by your political opposition.
While Trump was a mediocre president, he is not guilty of the crimes that the anti-trump leftists claim. He is guilty of being a narcissist, and at times of being crude and distasteful.
The Biden Regime is more guilty of the crimes that they accuse Trump of than Trump is. Neither Trump nor Biden should be president, but if forced to rank the two dismal choices, Trump wins by a landslide of being the better choice.
Even then both are "Turds", and even if Trump is elected, we are still left with a "Turd" abet a more capable "Turd" in Trump than Biden.
I don't like the how the Biden Regime has weaponized the judicial system. And find it comical how the corporate media is so worried about the potential of Trump returning the favor.
I even heard an interview where the corporate media puppet claimed that Biden didn't charge Trump, it was his Attorney General. Forget that even if Trump wanted Biden indicted, it would be done by his Attorney General too. The corporate media is incredibly vapid and stupid or perhaps the listening public is who swallows their tripe.
One good thing that Trump did is to question the honesty of the corporate media even though it was long over due. My hope is a dismantling of the corporate media, the two major political parties, and most of the government security state such as the CIA and FBI.
"...While Trump was a mediocre president,..."
Name a better one since Silent Cal and show your work. Or, STFU.
Coolidge was an A president, but it doesn't change the fact that everyone since was a C or worse.
I don't think a Sheriff in a po-dunk county Arkansas has greater immunity than the President.
LMAO…… As-if SCOTUS had a record of … “hold” *any* “presidents criminally liable even for outrageous abuses of power”.
Enter point & case: FDR.
If FDR, Obama or Biden was held criminally liable for outrageous abuses of power they’d all be executed by the State at this point.
And the real kick in the shorts is pretending Trump publicly sharing election statistics with the nation is some kind of “outrageous abuse of power”. No; that is not even a joke. That’s what the DNC is selling as the Trump Crime.
Whatever skepticism about possibly having a legitimate election existing was entirely washed away by the way the left handled the situation.
Not once did the left try to establish confidence in elections. Instead they chose to prosecute skepticism, shut-down media outlets, exaggerate grievances into insurrection and literally push the scope as far-away from election integrity as possible.
And then having the audacity to claim the right is playing race-admittance access to the ballot box. Seriously; The left just concreted their own guilt on the subject.
"...stemming from his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election,..."
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit; there were none.
Sullum's mistake is assuming a binary opposition in which the imperial presidency is evil and the ones trying to "keep him accountable" are as white as snow. This will almost never happen. Look what happened to Trump. That is a preview of what the current democrats will do once immunity is removed. Whether they can actually prove the case in trial is beyond the point. If they're given the chance to try, then all they need is a crooked judge like Merchan, and they can drain the victim with lawfare.
With two more judges like Sotomayor in the sc, and the nation's freedom would be more at risk than a Joe Biden presidency. What's the option to hold them accountable? Make it easier to sue them? Take away their lifetime job status? What about congress? That's where the most unlibertarian and radical members reside.
I wouldn't lose sleep over Joe Biden pressured to safeguarding the border under the constant threat of prosecution and impeachment by the GOP. But if policy is constantly hamstrung like that, nothing would ever get done. It's no different than a company unwilling to take risk or innovate without any liability protection. It's unintended consequences. It's common sense.
You don't think "paralysis" can be a problem? The Ferguson effect. It got bad enough that libs started to recall their own prog DAs. Removal of QI is almost completely off the table now, When a solution to a problem is just running to one extreme, reforms can't be done.
I'm not going to degrade my intelligence further by entertaining this stupid "political assassination" scenario any longer. STOP it. It can never be interpreted as an "official act" by any court. But what about something like FDR's Japanese internment? That was done in the name of national security during war time. FDR could argue that he thought that was constitutionally kosher. I would reluctantly think liability still applies there. Which again is nowhere close to anything Trump did, or POTUS ordering the military to kill a rando on the street.
That shield, Sotomayor said, would extend to a president who "orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival," who "organizes a military coup to hold onto power," who "takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon," or who insists that the Justice Department use fabricated evidence in a criminal case.
Of those four examples, two are overwhelmingly stupid on their face. Overthrowing the duly elected government is not an official duty of the President. Taking bribes is not an official duty of the President.
The president might be able to insist that fabricated evidence be submitted by the Justice Department, but the presiding judge still retains the power to throw it out, and the case can still be lost on appeal when the false nature of said evidence is discovered.
Sending Seal Team 6 after your political rival? Why not. Sending the FBI to spy on political rivals based on false evidence and using falsified warrants is already okay, a precedent set by President Obama, if not one of his predecessors already. Setting the IRS loose on ideological opponents is also fine. It wouldn't surprise me if Team Blue added political assassinations to their playbook at this point.
So busy trying to protect "their guy" , they forget to ask what happens with "the other guy" gets in office and can do the same things or worse.