Trump's Conviction Suggests Jurors Bought the Prosecution's Dubious 'Election Fraud' Narrative
There was a glaring mismatch between the charges against the former president and what prosecutors described as the essence of his crime.

After deliberating for a little more than a day, a Manhattan jury on Thursday found Donald Trump guilty of falsifying 34 business records to aid or conceal "another crime," an intent that turns what would otherwise be misdemeanors into felonies. If you assumed that the jury's conclusions would be driven by political animus, this first-ever criminal conviction of a former president is the result you probably expected in a jurisdiction where Democrats outnumber Republicans by 9 to 1. But in legal terms, the quick verdict is hard to fathom.
That's not because there were so many counts to consider, each related to a specific invoice, check, or ledger entry allegedly aimed at disguising a hush-money reimbursement as payment for legal services. Once jurors accepted the prosecution's theory of the case, it was pretty much inevitable that they would find Trump guilty on all 34 counts. But that theory was complicated, confusing, and in some versions highly implausible, if not nonsensical. Given the puzzles posed by the charges, you would expect conscientious jurors to spend more than an afternoon, a morning, and part of another afternoon teasing them out.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's case against Trump stemmed from the $130,000 that Michael Cohen, then Trump's lawyer and fixer, paid porn star Stormy Daniels shortly before the 2016 presidential election to keep her from talking about her alleged 2006 sexual encounter with Trump. When Trump reimbursed Cohen in 2017, prosecutors said, he tried to cover up the arrangement with Daniels by pretending that he was paying Cohen, whom he had designated as his personal attorney, for legal work.
Cohen testified that Trump instructed him to pay off Daniels and approved the plan to mischaracterize the reimbursement. Cohen was the only witness who directly confirmed those two points, and the defense team argued that jurors should not trust a convicted felon, disbarred lawyer, and admitted liar with a powerful grudge against his former boss. But even without Cohen's testimony, there was strong circumstantial evidence that Trump approved the payoff and went along with the reimbursement scheme.
The real problem for the prosecution was proving that Trump falsified business records with "an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"—the element that was necessary to treat the misleading documents as felonies. Prosecutors said the other crime was a violation of Section 17-152, an obscure, little-used provision of the New York Election Law. Section 17-152 makes it a misdemeanor for "two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means." But prosecutors never settled on any particular explanation of "unlawful means," and Juan Merchan, the judge presiding over the trial, told the jurors they could find Trump guilty even if they could not agree on one.
According to one theory, Cohen made an excessive campaign contribution, thereby violating the Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA), when he fronted the money to pay Daniels. Cohen pleaded guilty to that offense in 2018 as part of an agreement that also resolved several other, unrelated federal charges against him. Cohen therefore had a strong incentive to accept the characterization of the Daniels payment as an illegal campaign contribution. While jurors heard about Cohen's guilty plea during the trial, CNN notes, Merchan instructed them that they should consider it only "to assess Cohen's credibility and give context to the events that followed, but not in determining the defendant's guilt."
It is unclear whether Trump violated FECA by soliciting Cohen's "contribution," a question that hinges on the fuzzy distinction between personal and campaign expenditures. Given the uncertainty on that point, it is plausible that Trump did not think the Daniels payment was illegal, which helps explain why he was never prosecuted under FECA: To obtain a conviction, federal prosecutors would have had to prove that he "knowingly and willfully" violated the statute.
The New York prosecutors said Cohen and Trump conspired to promote his election through "unlawful means." Under New York law, a criminal conspiracy requires "a specific intent to commit a crime." Trump's understanding of FECA was relevant in assessing whether he had such an intent, meaning he recognized the nondisclosure agreement with Daniels as "unlawful means." Trump's understanding of FECA therefore also was relevant in assessing whether he falsified business records with the intent of covering up "another crime."
That theory assumed three things: 1) that Trump recognized the Daniels payment as a FECA violation; 2) that he knew about Section 17-152, a moribund, rarely invoked law; and 3) that he anticipated how New York prosecutors might construe Section 17-152 in light of FECA. The first assumption is questionable, the second is unlikely, and the third is highly implausible. Yet you would have to believe all three things to conclude that Trump approved a plan to misrepresent his reimbursement of Cohen as payment for legal services with the intent of covering up a FECA-dependent violation of Section 17-152.
According to a second theory, Trump facilitated a violation of New York tax law by allowing Cohen to falsely report his reimbursement as income. Although that violation is described as "criminal tax fraud," Merchan said it did not matter that Cohen's alleged misrepresentation resulted in a higher tax bill. The judge noted that it is illegal to submit "materially false or fraudulent information in connection with any return," regardless of whether that information benefits the taxpayer.
Putting aside that counterintuitive definition of tax fraud, this theory required believing that Trump, when he reimbursed Cohen, not only contemplated what would happen when Cohen filed his returns the following year but also thought that "unlawful means" somehow would influence an election that had already happened. The logic here was hard to follow.
Likewise with the third theory of "unlawful means." Prosecutors suggested that Trump's falsification of business records was designed to aid or conceal the falsification of other business records. CNN reported that the latter records could involve, among other things, the corporate bank account that Cohen created to pay Daniels, Cohen's transfer of the money to Daniels' lawyer, or the Trump Organization's 1099-MISC forms for the payments to Cohen.
Since the 1099 forms were issued after the election, it is hard to see how they could have been aimed at ensuring Trump's victory. And although the other records predated the election, this theory involves a weird sort of bootstrapping.
Prosecutors said the records related to Cohen's dummy corporation, for example, were falsified because they misrepresented the nature and purpose of that entity, which by itself is a misdemeanor. That misdemeanor was the "unlawful means" by which Trump allegedly sought to promote his election, another misdemeanor. And because Trump allegedly tried to conceal the latter misdemeanor by falsifying the records related to Cohen's reimbursement, those records are 34 felonies instead of 34 misdemeanors.
The theory that Trump falsified business records to conceal the falsification of business records was "so circular as to produce vertigo in the jury room," George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley said. If so, the jurors seem to have quickly recovered from their queasiness. They accepted either this dubious theory, one of the others, or possibly some combination of them. Since unanimity was not required, it is possible that some jurors bought the FECA theory, some preferred the double falsification theory, and some concluded that the case was clinched by a tax fraud with no pecuniary benefit.
To disguise the difficulties with its dueling theories, the prosecution averred that Trump committed "election fraud" when he directed Cohen to pay Daniels for her silence, thereby concealing information that voters might have deemed relevant in choosing between him and Hillary Clinton. "This was a planned, coordinated, long-running conspiracy to influence the 2016 election, to help Donald Trump get elected through illegal expenditures, to silence people who had something bad to say about his behavior," lead prosecutor Matthew Colangelo told the jury in his opening statement. "It was election fraud, pure and simple."
During his summation, prosecutor Joshua Steinglass called the nondisclosure agreement with Daniels "a subversion of democracy." He said it was an "effort to hoodwink the American voter." He told "a sweeping story about a fraud on the American people," as The New York Times put it. "He argue[d] that the American people in 2016 had the right to determine whether they cared that Trump had slept with a porn star or not, and that the conspiracy prevented them from doing so."
Did the American people have such a right? If so, Trump would have violated it even he had merely asked Daniels to keep quiet, perhaps by appealing to her sympathy for his wife. If Daniels had agreed, the result would have been the same. As the prosecution told it, that still would amount to "election fraud," even though there is clearly nothing illegal about it.
The jurors evidently bought this cover story. During deliberations, they revisited the testimony of former National Enquirer publisher David Pecker, a Trump buddy whom prosecutors implicated in that "long-running conspiracy to influence the 2016 election." Pecker's arrangement with Trump, which he described as mutually beneficial, was not the basis for any of the charges against Trump. But his testimony reinforced Bragg's legally dubious claim that Trump engaged in "election interference" when he sought to avoid bad press.
Pecker said he agreed to help Trump in several ways. He would run positive stories about Trump and negative stories about his opponents. He also would keep an eye out for potentially damaging stories about Trump and alert Cohen to them. The latter promise resulted in two agreements that the Enquirer negotiated with Dino Sajudin, a former Trump Tower doorman who falsely claimed that Trump had fathered a child with a woman hired to clean the building, and former Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal, who described a year-long affair with Trump. After paying $30,000 to Sajudin and $150,000 to McDougal for exclusive rights to their stories, the Enquirer sat on them.
Again, Trump was not charged in connection with any of this, and much of what Pecker did was constitutionally protected, albeit journalistically unethical. The fact that the jury nevertheless wanted to be read excerpts from Pecker's testimony suggests they accepted the prosecution's commodious understanding of "election fraud," which did not necessarily require any actual lawbreaking, let alone any attempt to interfere with the casting, counting, or reporting of votes.
In short, there was a glaring mismatch between the charges against Trump and what prosecutors described as the essence of his crime, which is not a crime at all. Since they could not charge him with "election fraud" merely because he tried to hide embarrassing information, they instead built a convoluted case that relied on interacting statutes and questionable assumptions about Trump's knowledge and intent.
That approach suggests several possible grounds for appeal. It is not clear, for example, whether a violation of federal campaign finance regulations, even when filtered through Section 17-152, counts as "another crime" under the state law dealing with falsification of business records. Nor is it clear that Section 17-152 applies in the context of a federal election, where federal law generally pre-empts state law. There are also questions about what is required to prove that Trump had "an intent to defraud" when he signed the checks to Cohen.
Bragg's predecessor, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., after lengthy consideration of possible state charges based on the Daniels payment, decided they were too legally iffy to pursue. Mark Pomerantz, a former prosecutor in Vance's office who worked on the Trump investigation, concluded that "such a case was too risky under New York law." In a 2023 book, Pomerantz noted that "no appellate court in New York had ever upheld (or rejected) this interpretation of the law."
Last week, New York Times columnist David French worried about the consequences of a conviction that is overturned on appeal. "Imagine a scenario in which Trump is convicted at the trial, Biden condemns him as a felon and the Biden campaign runs ads mocking him as a convict," he wrote. "If Biden wins a narrow victory but then an appeals court tosses out the conviction, this case could well undermine faith in our democracy and the rule of law." In his desperation to prevent Trump from reoccupying the White House, Bragg has already accomplished that.
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They did no such thing. He was convicted of being Donald Trump, and they believe that it is self evident that Donald Trump must be stopped. All means to do so are therefore legitimate.
The "facts" of the case were irrelevant.
This. The prosecution attempted to make this case all about how Trump is a bad person, and the salaciousness of having sex with a porn star. There was no reason for Stormy Daniels to get on the stand and imply she'd been raped, nor any need to play the "Grab them by the pussy" tape. Those things are not relevant to a documents case. The government kept saying "election fraud" to an audience that lives in New York and probably is saturated by the Russian conspiracy narrative pushed by NYT for years.
The purpose was to get Trump, not to deliver justice. I hope the judge sentences him to 20+ years so we can finish this clown show.
New Yorkers know him best!
New Yorkers loved him till he dared to go up against Herself and won.
#NeverAgain
Turd is a lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
Why does Joe Biden keep talking about “Throwing black men in chains”??
Is this just how Racist biden is as an old democrat?
I mean as a rule biden is extremely racist… everybody knows that.
Or is it just because he keeps shitting himself in public? Can’t remember who or where he is?
Why do we have to have this authoritarian mad shitter embarrassing us all the time?
Christ, when does this shit all end?
The democrats fought very hard to keep their slaves. But Republican President Lincoln defeated them.
Sorry... biden is actually a "modern democrat".
In my defense, sometimes it's hard to tell the old from the new.
To quote biden “we already have a hot shot nigger mayor, we don’t need a hot shot nigger senetor”
Well, he is guilty of being Donald Trump.
What a great day for justice. I hope Trump lives long enough to sit through the three other upcoming trials and keeps racking up those guilty counts, the only thing this fucking moron has ever truly earned. How long now before right wing pundits start writing screeds against jury trials? Can you imagine what William Buckley would have said if he saw what has happened to the conservative movement? Trump has literally dumbed down the whole movement. It's like he shitted stupid pills into their mouths and they all munched it up with glee.
Can you imagine what William Buckley would have said if he saw what has happened to the conservative movement?
The one he led that never actually "conserved" anything, by its own admission, and repeatedly marginalized the ones that actually wanted to do so?
If you are claiming that Trump has done more for conservatives than Buckley, you are just proving my point.
If you're trying to deflect from the failures of the Buckley conservatives, you are just proving mine.
Not deflecting. I agree they failed, because the Trump cult is in control.
LOL, they failed long before Trump came along. In fact, their failure is the reason they aren't running the party anymore, you slack-jawed, slope-foreheaded shitlib.
Fucking TDS-addled imbecilic shit pile.
Eat shit and die; make your family proud.
The LP got the Suprema to put our plank into Roe. Televangelist whackjobs swarmed in, took it over, packed the court with nazis and now have a Doomsday Machine resolution forbidding any changes to their expel immigrants, kill hippies and enslave pregnant women demands. They HAVE to be replaced now, and Chase Oliver can speed up that evolution in action.
This is the worst thing for you. If the courts fail to correct this unconstitutional action, then it will be time for your kind to be eliminated from our constitutional republic. Personally, I think that should have happened long ago. But I tend to see further down the road than most.
Pray it does not become obvious to my fellow Americans that you and your fellow travelers need to be dealt with.
I called the deliberation at two days; probably so the jurors could get a couple more free meals before turning in the pre-determined verdict.
This is also part of why he shouldn't have been the GOP nominee--because there was no way in hell the Cabal would let him back in office. His voters in the primary should have taken that Time article at its word.
So who should have been the nominee, and what difference would it have made?
I've already said, multiple fucking times, that DeSantis should have been the GOP's nominee. You have Trump programs without Trump's horrible attention span or impulse control, who can actually spell out policies and has an established track record of turning Florida from an election night basketcase into a lock-tight process that can call races by 10 pm Eastern. Vivek might have been a suitable option, if he didn't give off the impression of being a total slimeball. Rand Paul would have been great from my perspective if someone had convinced him to run again.
I understand why he was the nominee. But I said after the Time article came out that this was the establishment bragging about how it rigged the election, and that this was a clear signal that they'd do it again if Trump was the nominee.
Not sure you can be an effective president if you can’t run an effective campaign. And i think DeSantis is fine. But his campaign was shit.
Vivek had the best pure policy proposals.
But none of this excuses the lawfare going on.
And they were already looking for predicates to over DeSantis as well.
From the same lawfare group.
https://www.justsecurity.org/83232/was-desantis-shipping-migrants-to-marthas-vineyard-a-crime/
Vivek was sleazy and recited a bunch of Kremlin talking points. I would have liked Rand Paul, but his dad is also too close to the Bolsheviks nowadays for comfort.
The Bolsheviks run the US/anglosphere.
Really pretty obvious about it.
None of this will ultimately matter. Soon the American people will have to decide to exterminate the left, or be ruled by them.
I can’t think of a single reason to allow their continued existence.
Go touch grass.
"I’ve already said, multiple fucking times, that DeSantis should have been the GOP’s nominee. You have Trump programs without Trump’s horrible attention span or impulse control, who can actually spell out policies and has an established track record of turning Florida from an election night basketcase into a lock-tight process that can call races by 10 pm Eastern. Vivek might have been a suitable option, if he didn’t give off the impression of being a total slimeball. Rand Paul would have been great from my perspective if someone had convinced him to run again."
It is absolutely hilarious how much denial you're in.
It's even more hilarious how little you're actually going to do about it. All you're doing is bloviating on an internet blog. But you won't actually follow through on anything, you stupid fucking glowie.
SO it's like the Gee-Ooh-Pee equivalent of driving while Black?
The facts in the case were overwhelming. 34 falsified documents. It was important to have Daniels take the stand to put on the record what the payments were for. Even then there would have been no crime had Trump been honest and recorded them as hush money payments rather than legal fees. Everyone knows Trump doesn't pay his legal fees! Cohen and Daniels are like Trump but it was Trump who falsified the documents and there was no way we wasn't going to be convicted.
Any normal person would have copped a misdemeanor plea and walked. Now Trump will at least be on probation and may not even be able to vote. He might even get free room and board courtesy of New York taxpayers.
Al Capone went down for tax evasion. Lucky Luciano for prostitution. Trump for falsified business records. Everyone knows that for all three those were minor offenses compared to the scale of the massive organized criminal enterprises that they all three ran. It is just that those were the places where the DAs were able to get a conviction. All three were really good at making their worse crimes hard to track. Trump screwed up by putting this all on paper.
Trump could have beaten the rap by testifying himself but he would have perjured himself and his attorneys would have had their careers out at risk as well. Trump's attorneys did as well as they could with a problem client who had a paper trail of proof to his crimes and had pissed off people who could testify against him. Screwing your friends can have consequences.
Political? Yeah we elect DAs. Tom Dewey made an entire career out of high profile prosecutions and became Governor of New York (and almost President of the US). If you don't want to get caught don't leave a paper trail of false documents.
How were they falsified? Is paying an NDA not a legal expense?
That's the thing. Even on the most basic fundamentals of this case, I cannot agree that any lies even occurred, much less the logical leaps necessary to claim that they were fraud made to commit election fraud.
It seems simpler that these are instead just basic categorizations with no details. Since no details are legally required in this situation.
It would seem that this case, if it stands, sets the precedent that any attempt by a political camping to manage the public image of their candidate constitutes election fraudulent election interference. Any characteristic that a campaign fears may cause voters to vote against their candidate is one that, if concealed, falsely influences an election. "I wouldn't have voted for him if I'd known......" is now the only charge that one needs to level to bring charges against a politician.
Wait a minute..... I may have just changed my mind on this topic.
Yes, trying to put any sort of logical consistency gets into absurd situations. As Sullim mentioned just a few days ago, if we accept the prosecution's case, it would have been election interference if Trump merely asked Daniels nicely to stay silent. It's a non-compliable demand that boils down to at best guilt by accusation.
Look at my shocked face.
Actus reus non facit reum nisi mens sit rea?
Orange man bad!
America now has its very own Alexei Navalny.
And, unlike Navalny, he's a hell of a lot more popular.
And orange.
And alive. For the moment.
This shit will backfire on the democrats.
Promises, promises...
Except, unlike Navalny, Trump isn't actually in bed with foreign interests
Hilarious. Trump is totally in bed with Putin and took millions of dollars from the Chinese when President.
Orange man now fully orange!
former libertarian now fully TDS-addled steaming pile of shit.
Aurantium homo malus est
Indeed.
Man, I don't like Trump but any libertarian who cannot full throatedly condemn this as a rigged Soviet style show trial with a corrupt judge should look for another party.
Look at the party's nominee. It seems like the Libertarian party is exactly that and it's the actual libertarians who need to look elsewhere.
Exactly
Jacob Sullum did not condemn it. He refused to even say it was intentional political lawfare. He even at the end only seems to be worried about the threat on the institution of voting by referencing David French.
He refuses to call out the Democrats for what this is.
Sullum is a Democrat in LINO skin.
The real threat isn't this thing, it's what Republicans might do in the future, right?
Now you’re getting it!
Look. Sullim hates Trump with a passion, but even he has condemned this as absurd. While it might not be as virulent as you would like, it's still clearly a condemnation.
This is what convinced me I wasn't crazy.
The one true libertarian commenter hardest hit.
And far too stupid to understand.
Unfortunately libertarians should have been looking for another party before today.
Constitution party is pretty good if you can stomach their conservative social slant
Carpos Incontinence is a well-chosen alias...
There need to be a lot less democrats going forward. In fact, we could do without all of them.
^+1
Factio Democratica delenda est.
At this point in time, we can consider the United States no longer exists. It has now become the USSA/Union of Soviet Socialist America.
About which, you can be expected to do fuck-all.
Any over/under on when the appeal will be filed? After the appeal is rejected, how about the appeal to SCOTUS?
He apparently try has to wait until July 11th, ironically scheduled 5 days before the RNC convention, then has 30 days for initial, 90 days for full appeal.
Appeal deadline should be 30 days, if I understand, so he has until June 29. Sentencing is July 11.
One article said the day started when he was sentenced as that is part of the appeal.
https://x.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1796325327301734847?t=mPLp9fUEJg8UT9xw9TY3Vg&s=19
Do you think Trump has a chance with the Manhattan appeals court?
[Pic]
No.
This must be fast tracked to the SCOTUS so it can be overturned immediately. If this is allowed to stand, then it is time to remove the democrats by any means necessary.
No fast track. The SC will let the appeals process go through NY courts and it won't even get involved unless there is a federal issue. And I don't see one. This is all about clear violations of New York State law.
As bad as his odds are with the state appeals courts, I think he has a better chance dealing with them than trying for a hail mary to SCOTUS. To bring it to SCOTUS he needs to find a federal law or federal constitutional question for them to even have jurisdiction (unless you think SCOTUS is just going to throw their rule book out the door to pull Trump out of the fire...)
Even winning on appeal doesn't mean the case goes away. It goes back down to the district, and New York can just decide to bring the case again. They got a conviction once, and everyone knows it, they probably think their odds are even better the second time.
His state crime was enhanced from a misdemeanor to a felony because it was in furtherance of an unnamed federal crime.
The problem there is that the law does not require him to actually be guilty of the other crime - just that they show it was intended to commit another crime or attempt to conceal such (also, only one of the three possible underlying crimes was a federal crime - the other two were state crimes)
In all criminal cases all predicates of a crime must be proven, including criminal intent. If they can't even name what the predicate crime is, how can they prove he intended to commit said crime?
This sounds like a real winner of a legal argument, Jesse. Why didn't Trump's crack legal team think of it?
"the law does not require him to actually be guilty of the other crime"
Cite?
It doesn't matter.
That yall still cling to your beliefs in institutions is such a waste.
Its right there in the article:
"an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"
You don't have to be guilty of a particular crime to attempt to conceal it.
How can you prove intent to commit a crime without naming the crime intended to be committed?
Very good point!
They don't have to prove that crime since he is not being tried for those crimes.
Kafkaesque
There were three named crimes.
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/21/trump-hush-money-criminal-trial/no-unanimity-needed-for-predicate-crimes-00159225
Not only could they consider a crime he is not guilty of, the jury doesn't even have to agree to the same untried crime.
If you think Trump is guilty of something, you can convict.
Anyone who believes in reform should be appalled by that.
It's interesting that the only facts Sullum wants to talk about are the statements people made against Trump regardless of whether those same individuals have made other statements completely contradicting them.
This was nothing more than a banana republic bullshit prosecution. There is no legal case here or reasonable means of arriving at a conviction. Pretending that the result is derived from anything besides animus towards Trump is extremely dishonest or blindingly ignorant.
Sullum is a moron.
Translation: WAAAAAH! Pass the Dr Trump Butthurt Salve.
Fascist
There is absolutely nothing libertarian about you. You should have defected to the Soviets. A much better fit for a traitor like you.
In Hank’s defense, he still thinks the Soviet Union exists.
It does, it just changed locations.
It's the USSA now.
From this point on, no one is safe. Whether or not one actually commits a crime is irrelevant. It's the thought that counts.
Justice in America has been severely perverted.
Well, you're now convinced that you can't trust the media, the elections, the police or the courts. What's left for you to do?
I've got it! Appeal to the military to stage a coup.
Dubious? Perhaps.
Just think of these felony convictions as a Lifetime Scumbag Award for Donne due to all his past grifts, lies, refusal to pay contractors, ripping off customers of his phony "university" and other businesses, bankruptcies, his phony charity, and his other cons.
#LifetimeScumbagAward
Yeah, because THAT is justice. Being mad at someone and therefore convicted them of something unrelated because you've decided they're a bad person.
It undermines every principle of our judicial system. Maybe you don't care about that, but in ten years, you might regret destroying the credibility of the court system.
Honestly, I’m so tired at this point, I’d be all for red states pulling the same games via their judiciary. Condemn the Trump case judge’s summer home in Florida or something. Using some bullshit they made up five minutes ago. Start going after people on the other side. Try Soros in absentia. I don’t know.
Of course, there isn’t actually an opposition with any consistent balls or power. So I guess we have to stand on principle…
This is going to backfire. Trump and RNC donation sites crashed from people trying to donate. This is how you motivate one side.
Hope they fortified the elections enough.
As I explained below, we either need to fight like Demona, or go meekly into the gas chambers!
There is no third option!
Problem: You don't have any principles to stand on.
You and your ilk are perfectly fine with doing exactly the same thing (and worse) to your opponents, which logically suggests that you really have no principled opposition to any of those things, just previous practical objections (which no longer apply).
I didn't object to the eventual conviction of Bill Cosby either.
Really? But you both had so much in common.
It's like when you're speeding and you see someone ahead of you get pulled over for speeding...
Cosby's victims are way too old for the hicklib's taste.
I was thinking more about the drugging than the age spread.
Pluggo the clown’s favorite children’s party trick?
“Does this handkerchief smell like chloroform?”
Odd, given that you fuck kids.
A conviction that was obtained through the use of illegal evidence and later overturned? Yeah, I'm not surprised.
Shrike doesn't care about the constitution or liberty or blind justice, despite his claims to be a classical liberal.
He's simply not smart enough to understand; words? So what?
I'm avoiding a legal argument, you moron. Dubious? Perhaps. See?
My argument is ethical and backed by Kant.
Bill Cosby/Donald Trump? I won't lose any sleep over their convictions.
The words of an abysmally stupid pile of TDS addled shit.
You’re avoiding the legal argument and focusing on ethics because not even you, someone who hates him with a fiery passion, can accept that this was a fair and non partisan trial.
That’s the difference between you and Sarc. You at least admit that team Biden is crooked. You just have to convince yourself that Trump isn’t any better than the left.
You just have to convince yourself that Trump isn’t any better than the left.
Why do you think I stopped voting you nincompoop?
Nobody believes you sarc. With how much energy you put into defending the good intentions of the democrats and defending Joe Biden... nobody believes you.
BTW, hilarious you gave me a bookmark below showing you never had me muted. Lol. Lying clown.
Just wait till they come for you, kid fucker.
Lol. Glad the addendum to the name is catching on.
I'm joining the club.
Awwww. Matching face tattoos.
"...Maybe you don’t care about that, but in ten years, you might regret destroying the credibility of the court system."
It's not that turd 'cares about it' one way or the other; he's simply and entirely too stupid to realize what has happened.
If it's not TDS or coke, it's beyond his ken; he is not capable of understanding it.
Indeed. That credibility was destroyed by the likes of Alvin Bragg, Letricia James and Judge Merchan, who by the way is as corrupt as they come.
They were all put in place by bathouse Barry.
It’s the Buttplug way. That, and raping small children.
.
It is the kind of justice used to bring down previous organized crime leaders when their greater crimes are covered up and impossible to prove.
Just think of these felony convictions as a miscarriage of justice.
It's NY, the case could have been aborted.
Scumbag? Did Trump do something horrific like post links to cild pornography on a dubiously libertarian website?
….dubiously libertarian website
Poor form. Too on the nose.
If I aimed below the belt, I’d end up striking the back of Pluggo’s head.
Ouch!
…Rape, sexual assault, fraud, cringey parties with Epstein, obvious incest issues.
All good reasons to condemn Biden as garbage.
^ This
"...cringey parties with Epstein,..."
Leave Bill Clinton out of this, TDS-addled shitbag.
""obvious incest issues.""
What incest issues?
Is saying your daughter is hot a greater incest crime than taking a shower with her?
"#LifetimeScumbagAward"
That describes you to a "T", Shrike.
Can't do that. I really dislike Trump, and don't want him anywhere near the White House ever again. I can even enjoy the karma of someone who has thrown out false accusations from the Central Park Five to Dominion Voting Systems getting convicted on what appears to be a BS case, but that kind of "well, they might not be guilty of what they got charged with, but they're guilty of something" is the sort of thing authoritarian bootlickers say when rights are being violated right and left. Just because I don't like who it happened to doesn't mean it's okay, and this case really does seem like a stretch.
"Show me the man and I'll show you the crime." Joe Stalin
Actually it was Lavrentiy Beria, Uncle Joe's head of the NKVD who said that. Slow Joe has taken it to heart.
""who has thrown out false accusations from the Central Park Five ""
What false accusation was that? Trump's rant and purchase of newspaper space condemning the Central Park Five to the death sentence was based on a guilty verdict.
The Central Park Five were exonerated. And Trump still thinks they should have been executed.
I can say. If we elect Trump, it's less likely that this will happen again because it clearly didn't work.
Trump won't be able to accomplish anything because of the constant fighting in the system, but that's immaterial because we CANNOT allow this lawfare to work.
What's ironic about your comment is that none of these other transgressions have been brought to court and resulted in a guilty verdict. I've always been stunned that--despite all the machinations of the left and right about all Trump's "norm breaking"... these petty crimes are all that have been brought to court.
Where are all the other cases, if he's so obviously a law-breaker? This is all they have? Hillary-like document problems? Misclassifying an accounting ledger? It's weak-sauce, to me, and I trust you see the mismatch in claims vs. reality.
Trump dead-enders are the stupidest people on the planet, Exhibit #403.
You walked right into this, morons. 😛
#NoSympathyWhenDementiaJoeBeatsYouAgain
You are a pathetic hag
You're an embarrassing Trump cultist who admitted to agreeing with my main point - that Trump has essentially no chance of winning - except in your twisted worldview that's his whole appeal. Because you want his predictable defeat to trigger the end of this centuries-long experiment called the United States of America.
Anyone think I'm exaggerating? Anyone convinced Nardz would never put such a depraved fantasy in print?
Behold!
"Neither Trump nor DeSantis will win if nominated" ... "In my opinion, we need a kamikaze candidate. Someone who will inflame and enrage the powers that be and thereby overstep, provoking necessary annihilation of the system and revolution of the people (even if that’s merely secession)."
This is no better than the Hillary dead-enders and their childish fairytale that Robert Mueller would undo the 2016 election. Any group that embraces nutjobs like Nardz has forfeited the right to label anyone else "deranged."
Uhhhhhhh, so I botched that link. Just scroll down or search for the word "annihilation" or something.
Nah.
No, you didn't so much botch the link as to prove yourself a slimy, steaming pile of ignorant shit. Fuck off and die, cunt.
Suicide is the only thing that could help you, Sandra.
Has the benefit of being your only moral option too.
What about the polls?
Because you want his predictable defeat to trigger the end of this centuries-long experiment called the United States of America.
At some point, all experiments have to come to an end with the hypothesis tested. If the US is nothing more than an experiment, and that experiment has been found wanting because the success of democracy is entirely dependent on a population of "virtuous people," as Adams suggested, it's going to come to a halt anyway in this gross, degenerate, self-indulgent, solipsistic environment.
As I've long said, Trump is a symptom of a much larger national issue that's been growing since the end of World War II--the fact that the country is populated by large sections of people with fundamentally opposing views of how it should be run. The so-called "center," despite its pretensions, are actually quite small and not relevant to this dynamic. They'll go along with whomever holds power as long as they aren't being inconvenienced themselves or the aggravation of daily living is tolerable to their standards.
^^^ 250 years is a really shitty run for a country/nation. And America, the Nation of “Ideas”, dies when the idea dies.
I’m a fan of constitutional governments, but there’s some things lacking in ours if it can’t even get to 500 years before imploding.
To be blunt, I've found this fetishization of "ideas" to be puerile. Ideas are little more than glittering generalities that mean very little if they don't actually work in the real world. And the fact that the country and the west itself has gotten more internally combative and polarized the more "democratic" it becomes, is elegant proof that such "ideas" will ultimately be undermined and subverted through their shaky foundations.
America is already dead.
All that remains is whether or not Americans will avoid their genocide and build something to replace it.
(It's towards the end of the comments.)
But Nardo hasn't put "5-30" in his handle, so he can't be one of the "in-crowd."
TDS-addled shits own this miscarriage of justice, you slimy pile of imbecilic shit.
Maybe Nardz would have been a better leader than chumby
Sorry sevo, you were never a contender.
Sandra, looks really bad to blame Trump for obvious DNC lawfare. Surely you don’t support this shit. Trump isn’t the only person dems have used this against. Flynn, McDonnell, etc.
Youre better than this.
This case could happen to anyone who runs a campaign in New York including DeSantis. NDAs are not illegal. They can fabricate this crime against anyone.
"...Surely you don’t support this shit..."
JA, you're engaging a seriously low-watt bulb with a raging case of TDS. You bet that steaming pile of shit supports this!
And no, she isn't 'better than this'; she's worse. She deserves a barb-wire wrapped broom stick up her ass.
"Surely you don’t support this shit."
I also didn't support the attempt to throw Trump off the ballot. But I just can't be sympathetic to Republicans when they're soooooooo goddamn dumb.
Republican #1: "Wow, Democrats are really taking the gloves off and playing dirty! What should we do?"
R #2: "I know! We'll do exactly what Democrats want us to do! We'll pursue the one course of action guaranteed to maximize Democrats' return on investment for all their shenanigans!"
R #1: "Great idea! We can also diagnose people with TDS if they say this approach is suboptimal!"
Again, this is not a serious political party. It's a self-sabotaging clownshow. And it's basically handing reelection to an 80 year old with 40% approval.
Youre basically now arguing the GOP should only nominate candidates the DNC and media approve of.
So the uniparty. Nope.
You are literally supporting this shit. And Trump isn't the only fucking one they've done it to. Amazing you miss that fact.
Mitt Romney 4ever - OBL.
Youre basically now arguing the GOP should only nominate candidates the DNC and media approve of.
No. Sandra supported DeSantis, as I recall. As did I. Democrats are literally running ads for GOP primaries in Colorado right now trying to get the most Trumpy candidates nominated. They're not doing that because they don't want Trump to be the nominee. They're literally going off of the same playbook Hillary polled in 2016 because she didn't want to face more likeable, policy-driven Republicans.
Don't fall for the "end of democracy!" smokescreen these people are throwing up, which is primarily being spoken only because of the very marginal chance that Trump might have enough actual votes to overcome the 2 am ballot stuffing. They WANTED Trump as the nominee because they felt they had a better chance to win against him, conviction or no.
Don’t fall for the “end of democracy!” smokescreen these people are throwing up
It isn't a smokescreen. Wake-up and look at what they're doing.
What do you mean? I started calling for a national divorce as early as the summer of 2020, because I knew that the political polarization had reached a state that things had become absolutely irreconcilable. I’m not under the delusion that this nation can last for much longer in it’s current form; that’s everyone else wishcasting.
Also, I said right from the fucking start that there was going to be a guilty verdict. It's ridiculous watching everyone is get up in their feelings about that. I TOLD you all it would happen.
It shouldn't take a trial verdict to confirm that the country is done. The process started in Chicago in 1968 and we're at the terminal stage now.
I misread your last post. My apologies, disregard me.
What do you mean? I started calling for a national divorce as early as the summer of 2020, because I knew that the political polarization had reached a state that things had become absolutely irreconcilable. I’m not under the delusion that this nation can last for much longer in it’s current form; that’s everyone else wishcasting.
The only way to solve this problem is to eliminate the other side.
https://www.mediamatters.org/steve-bannon/steve-bannons-show-mike-davis-threatens-rain-hell-these-biden-democrats-and-warns-them
***START QUOTE***
MIKE DAVIS (ARTICLE III PROJECT): What's going to make my year next year is when President Trump appoints Mark Paoletta or Jeff Clark as the Attorney General and the other one can take the White House Counsel job. And John Sauer is President Trump's Solicitor General. And John Eastman is going to run the Office of Legal Counsel. And Your Excellency, Viceroy and Gov. General of D.C. Mike Davis is going to help them rain hell on these Biden Democrats.
I would say to these guys, lawyer up. I would lawyer up because guess what? This is a criminal conspiracy that these Democrat prosecutors and Democrat White House officials, Democrat Judges, Democrat witnesses, Democrat operatives -- they're running an -- Andrew Weissmann, buddy? You're running a criminal conspiracy to violate the civil rights of President Trump, his top aides like Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon, his lawyers like Jeff Clark and John Eastman, his supporters on January 6.
...
This is lawfare. This is election interference. And there are going to be the most severe legal, political and financial consequences come January 20, 2025.
***END QUOTE****
I hope they expand their reach to include all Democrats.
Hopefully, they can establish a regime where those who breathe even one syllable of dissent against Trump, or the American way, gets targeted for prosecution of crimes real or imagined, using dubious legal arguments and forged evidence if necessary.
The rules have changed.
I did not choose to change the rules, others have changed them for me.
We need to do this to these subhuman vermin Democrats or they send us to the gas chambers!
Michael hasn't met a fascist thought he doesn't endorse. News at 11.
The rules have changed.
I did not want to change the rules.
Other people, with the support of media, academic, and entertainment elites, changed the rules for all of us.
Mike Davis would be wrong, dead wrong, under the old rules.
Mike Davis is right now.
LOL, yes, to marxists, anyone who resists their historic determinism is a fascist.
WindycityTDS-addled shitpile doesn't know the definition of "fascist", among many other words.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
"I hope they expand their reach to include all Democrats.
Hopefully, they can establish a regime where those who breathe even one syllable of dissent against Trump, or the American way, gets targeted for prosecution of crimes real or imagined, using dubious legal arguments and forged evidence if necessary."
Thankfully, the idiot Democrats didn't manage to eliminate the 2nd Amendment. If Michael is right, we may soon see what it's there for.
The only thing left is secession.
No, revenge and retaliation and persecution of subhuman vermin Democrats is the only path forward.
We must follow the path of Demona!
On the other hand, Michael could just be a parody account.
Hard to tell, these days!
They were already starting the shit with DeSantis as well. Do you forget the 2021 to 2023 articles including many of the same groups looking for lawfare angles? They would have done the same shit to him. I gave a list of names they have previously done this too. Pretending this is a Trump only issue and they won't do it again is letting them win.
Yeah, they would have tried the same shit on him. I never said they wouldn't, as the Disney flap showed. Unlike Trump, DeSantis seems to have far more competent legal minds around him.
You think having more competent legal minds would have made a difference here? DeSantis ran a clown show campaign, and that was with an electorate that had a positive view of him at the start. By the end, his campaign had alienated so much of the Trump base that Dems wouldn't need to cheat to beat him in the general.
The Trump base wasn't alienated. Why vote for Trump Lite when the real thing is already running.
It's not my fault Trump wasn't wise enough to learn from 2020, and play kingmaker instead of trying to grab a brass ring that he isn't going to be allowed to reach for.
Maybe I'm "Too online" but the Desantis people on social media absolutely went full retard against MAGA people during the primary and alienated them. I saw them use the lawfare against Trump as a reason to vote Desantis, even legitimizing it at times.
I think your second point has some truth, but I don't see the establishment allowing anyone that is going to go far enough with Trump's policies that he endorses escape the lawfare either.
And for the record, I think it's all moot regardless. The world we all grew up in is over. We are about to return to something closer to the norm of humanity for most of its history than what most Americans can comprehend.
We should all spend less time commentating here and more time preparing.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Nobody in US history has had a worse run.
It was Howard Dean's "byahhh" moment dragged out over months.
DeSantis is a standard politician who's probably as owned as Mitt or any of the others.
Did you sleep through his completely incompetent campaign?
How do yall have no clue what charisma is.
Does "charisma" = "Tard-raging on social media"?
I never said I wasn't sympathetic to the guy. But after all this time, he STILL doesn't seem to get that he lost his Made Man status the minute he declared for the presidency.
Fuck you with a running, rusty chain saw, you pathetic pile of TDS-addled shit.
And no, she isn’t ‘better than this’; she’s worse. She deserves a barb-wire wrapped broom stick up her ass.
"Youre better than this."
I used to think so too until now, but her take is remarkably retarded.
Does she honestly think the exact same thing they're doing to Trump wouldn't have happened to DeSantis or Cruz if they got the nomination?
She can't wrap her head around the fact that they're going after Trump because he's antiestablishment, not because he's Trump. And she also can't seem to absorb how fascist and antidemocratic this is.
Maybe this is what she was all along.
She's a fucking troll. Always has been always will be.
No, she can't. This is not an intelligent person here; it is a TDS-addled adolescent piece of steaming shit.
"Youre better than this."
She ran a successful parody account. That's no indication that she's better than anything other than someone running a poor parody account. I tried to tell you guys what she is shortly after she gave up the parody, but decided to stop bothering after awhile. I'm not always right, but I mostly am.
This makes the democrats an existential threat against ALL Americans (as if this hasn’t been obvious for many years now). The logical discussion should be about destroying them for all time.
Indeed.
There should be no restraint when dealing with these subhuman vermin.
Jesus. WTF?!?
Fuck you.
Fuck off, Sandra. This is a shit troll and you know it.
Yes, you hate Trump. But you should be clever enough to realize what just happened here.
Ray Charles could see what just happened here. It doesn't mean that Trump should have been the GOP nominee.
I understand why he was. But the people that voted for him should have taken the hint the minute Time released that article, if the Revolver article on how the establishment was conducting a color revolution against Trump in 2020 didn't drive that home already.
They would have done the exact same thing to any other antiestablishment candidate.
Sandra has deluded herself into thinking that this was only about Trump, and not the seizure of power by the DC elite. Cruz, or DeSantis, or Vivek would all have been subject to the exact same lawfare attacks if they were the candidates.
Hans Hermann Hoppe has an article about ethical argumentation. In it he talks about how the left tries to set a false baseline in order to keep arguments and issues under their control. How libertarians need to not accept those false baselines.
Here saying because the left will go after Trump, he shouldn't have been the candidate is giving into those false baselines. It is wrong and it just leads to more and more of the behavior that is dangerous to liberty. At some point you have to just stand firm and say fuck you to them.
At some point you have to just stand firm and say fuck you to them.
And that's fine. I'm all about rejecting the left's framing on everything. But when things don't turn out the way you want them to, then what?
Double down and expose them. Continue to fight.
Both the RNC and Trump campaign sites crashed after the verdict from donations. Go on X and you see a ton of "i hate Trump but will vote for him now."
Expand retaliation to establish a MAD legal framework. It is literally the only protection now.
Letting them win will just enable them.
Expand retaliation to establish a MAD legal framework. It is literally the only protection now.
Okay. And who in the current GOP is going to have the balls to do that? Hell, I don't even trust that DeSantis would go that far.
The reason they don't have the balls is too many back down. Dems are fine violating precedent because their base only cares about power. Stand with those fighting power and maybe they'll grow a ficking spine. Expose the fake ones who don't like Kizinger and vote them out.
"Hell, I don’t even trust that DeSantis would go that far."
WTF have we been debating all night then?! Delaying the inevitable a year or two? Fuck that. I'm in my late 40s. The sooner this shit gets rolling the better.
"And who in the current GOP is going to have the balls to do that?"
General Flynn.
Never would've pegged Red Rocks as a Romney/Scott/Rubio/etc guy, but here it is.
LOL, please. I’m spitting realities and you all are emoting. Why don’t you show me how serious you all are about this? Because tard-raging on an internet comment board doesn’t mean much.
Hell, Trump had a chance to do a lot of this when he was in office? Guess what he did? That's right, he bitched out.
The only solution is to walk away, and then pull up the drawbridge. But I doubt anyone in the GOP really grasps that.
Okay--now how do you get him in office over the "election fortification"?
Only the military can save us now!
There should be an organized effort to destroy Alvin Bragg. Take away his career, his money, his family, his friends, and his freedom Leave him with nothing, as an example to all of marxistkind. Bonus points if he ends up committing suicide.
Rinse and repeat with every elite democrat.
^+1
We're about to experience a country of 320 million people and the most expansive and powerful military and bureaucracy in human history under one-party rule.
320m?
If you don't include the 50m I guess
*50m illegals
Not just elite Democrats, ALL Democrats.
Unfortunately Bragg is in N.Y. which is a strong democrat state in spite of republican presence in the outliers. Bragg will rally his troops, any attempts to pull him down will be met with violence.
I've never really taken you seriously. Less so now. Go fuck yourself.
The cunt-named-Sandra has:
1) Trolled turd (how hard is that?).
2) Added zero to any real conversation here.
3) Been, from day one a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit with nothing other than her TDS to add to anything.
Sit on a fence post and spin, you pathetic excuse for hymanity.
Sullum still trying to run cover.
See how long you last now that the authorities have 0% legitimacy, Jacob Sullum.
Tick tock, tumor.
Very, very sad day for our nation. We have allowed the courts to be employed as tools against political opponents. Wish I found it surprising rather than pathetic.
Sad, sad day for our nation.
Pfft… this is just too good.
Sarc or stupidity?
Given that it's Shrike, it's retarded stupidity.
It's Buttplug, the Chumby spoof is Sarc.
I think the reason you are so quick to accuse others of being sock puppets is a distraction. You’re the puppet master. Admit it.
You accuse me for years, yet even after accidentally proving yourself wrong you still insisted that I was the impersonator. With hard evidence you accidentally provided yourself.
I think it’s you. Makes the most sense.
Cite?
Everyone knows you sock and fuck up when you do. Just like shrike.
And you’re socking in a fit of glee in order to laugh along with the left they were successful in lawfare. So fuck you.
You caught me. I'm Sandra, Nardz and ITL.
Can you hack that up bitch? All I’ve ever seen is your lies, your drunken raging, and your faggoty threats which you can’t back up. If anyone runs sock outlets, it’s you. Because only the pedophile, and the morbidly obese pedophile will have your back.
Time for me to take a stand IRL.
Jk. Just going to insult people on the internet with my brothers in arms.
Chumby, we need clever word play now more than ever!
He is working on a zinger right now!
And being the imbecilic shit you are, it'll go right over your head.
Fuck off and die, shitstain.
Many things go over his head since he’s often on his knees.
Kids aren't too tall, are they? And a failed day trader with a coke habit can't be too picky.
It would be funny if one of his victims ended up setting a trap and cutting his balls off when Shreek attempts to rape him.
A crime was committed.
Trump was involved.
Good bye Michael Cohen, since in prison for felony.
Ergo, Trump hires convicted felons if we turn our time machine in only one direction. Why would he do such a thing??
How can one man be guilty when another man not only asks him to be guilty but also gives him the promise of money to be guilty with?
We really should hold lawyers to a certain expectation of professional ability and infallible conduct if they have their own association to consult prior to making any "move" that could be illicit.
It seems like the judge could had at least explained that the lawyer was expected to had upheld the law and was more than capable of doing so.
Did Trump really bully then-attorney Michael Cohen into committing an illegal act? Because in my opinion, the jury thought so.
But -- you are not conspiring as a first nor as a second person if you are asking a paid professional to perform any act of service at all.
At this point, anyone would probably want to know why Trump's attorney did not say no or at least did not reveal other proposals. But Trump conspiring by seeing professional assistance just is not on my mind as a behavior of conspiracy of two, although those charges may rightly belong on the Michael Cohen party ticket.
Trump & then-attorney Michael Cohen go to the top of One World Trade Center. Trump asks his attorney, "Can we proceed to the street level," and years later a jury convicts Trump for trying to get to the ground floor from the roof by way of client privilege but with a person of ex post facto dubious character.
Youre retarded aren't you. Cohen went to jail for taxi license and other fraud. They threw in the election shit because of retards like yourself.
Either way you slice it with Cohen, it makes Trump a moron for hiring him.
All of the fraud was done on his own as a side job, not for the Trump org.
Hiring a moron in an organization with thousands of employees isny a crime.
Keep justifying this lawfare though. Whichever means you need to do so.
That's not against the law, though. I think it's pretty obvious since Cohen was stealing from him, and has admitted to stealing from him, that it was stupid to hire him. Cohen wasn't earning employee of the month.
You don't convict people of crime for hiring the wrong guy.
Unless you are a TDS-addled steaming pile of shit claiming to be "former libertarian", which is pretty certain to be TDS-addled steaming pile of shit claiming to be "former libertarian"
"Either way you slice it with Cohen, it makes Trump a moron for hiring him."
And to TDS-addled steaming piles of shit, this means something, right TDS-addled steaming pile of shit?
Cool story, bruh
https://x.com/TheRealZBlog/status/1796320395152298308?t=5ylRj_oKkbH_Q9gTb35sdg&s=19
I am told security at the Daily Wire has restrained Ben Shapiro in order to keep him from posting that Trump should step aside in favor of Nikki Haley.
It's funny because it's true.
No one wants Haley.
Bet Ben Shapiro does.
"..."If Biden wins a narrow victory but then an appeals court tosses out the conviction, this case could well undermine faith in our democracy and the rule of law.""
You're late. That bell has been rung today. We have allowed the use of the courts to punish political enemies.
If Duranty were still here, he'd be singing the praises of this "trial"
Merrick Garland needs to get off his ass and indict Dubya and Obama for war crimes and mass murder of children in Iraq and Libya.
If he doesn't do that, what good is he?
Tooo qOkie.
Not enough hillbilly crank to get more than three words in post tonight, Hank-o?
The AI version of Hank can’t dumb itself down that much. Yet.
Yeah, I can see that happening since Garland is a member of the small hat tribe.
What is the small hat tribe?
What the fuck does this say to the rest of the world?
It says, we have our panties in a knot over someone paying off a porn star, but are A-OK with the mass slaughter of children in Libya and Iraq.
Here's what I say.
If you support punishing Trump for paying off some 'ho, but not punishing Dubya and Obama for mass murdering more children EACH than Dyland Harris, Eric Klebold, Adam Stanza, and Nicholas Cruise COMBINED,
then you have no business whining about all the school shootings and gang violence in the ghetto!
Democrats have given every banana republic or dictator ammo to laugh when they get accused for locking up political opponents.
"What the fuck does this say to the rest of the world?"
Russia: "See, we're not that bad".
Really what's the difference anymore?
Starts wars for self-serving reasons ✓
Small cabal runs the country ✓
Arrests political opponents on dubious charges ✓
Imprisons dissidents without trial ✓
Kangaroo courts ✓
State police force who will do illegal things for the party ✓
Dubious elections ✓
The difference is the corrupt thugs running Russia actually want Russia to be successful, they just want to rule it.
^^^
Add arrest journalists who expose government lies.
If there is no more rule of law, then why shouldn’t we just eliminate the democrat elite and their party?
Zelensky "hold my beer."
"Trump's Conviction Suggests Jurors Bought the Prosecution's Dubious 'Election Fraud' Narrative"
Truth in headlines:
Trump's Conviction Suggests Jurors were New York Democrats.
Did Trump's lawyers sleep through voir dire?
How unfortunate.
https://x.com/prowrstlngstrng/status/1796327976000426134?t=3qXLOoa-nuGGQcgGWgdZuw&s=19
That people are stunned that the same people who locked you in your home, promoted riots, shut down your business and forced you to show papers to enter public spaces are willing to arrest the opposition party is itself pretty stunning
There is no evil they wont commit
The US died the day Trump came down the golden elevator. Obama immediately set the US intel agencies against him, and Hillary started the whole Russia witch hunt. Somehow he still won in 2016. There hasn’t been a fair election since. Look at what lawfare has done:
1. Fined $80+ million for defaming a woman who lied about being raped by saying she lied.
2. Fines $450+ million for defrauding banks that said no fraud occurred.
3. Convicted, and he will be sentanced to jail, for paying his lawyer for a legal contract.
There are people still in denial; this is how people wind up in cattle cars.
I am not in deniakl.
But we need Republican prosecutors, Republican sheriffs, Republican police chiefs, and Republican police officers to pull their heads out of their asses, and start waging retaliatory lawfare against Democrats, by hook or by crook, regardless of what the evidence, statute, Brady v. Maryland, or the United States Constitution say!
Mutually assured destruction is definitely the point we are at. Texas should arrest Biden for trafficking along with Myorkas. Any red AG can arrest Biden for illegal student loan forgiveness post USSC decision, even have him admitting he is defying the USSC on X. Arrest the CIA agents who signed the laptop letter. Arrest Kamala for funding criminals during BLM. Arrest Soros for the same under RICO.
Just burn it all down.
It can not happen soon enough.
All Democrats are subhuman vermin, unworthy of respect of their rights.
We have a holy, moral duty to hate them the same way Demona in Gargoyles hated humanity.
We must hate them with our entire beings.
Now you’re getting it. They’re not real Americans, or even human. Just soulless, unclean things.
It’s them, or us. So they have to go.
You got that right!
Factio Democratica delenda est.
If you're still hoping for institutional correction/retribution, you're in denial.
There is no constitutional way of fixing our polity, though rebellion is aconstitutional rather than unconstitutional.
Correct.
Cattle cars and gulags.
https://x.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1796290488976228406?t=YXEsZBmbuJi1ofG6e8Bi_w&s=19
Import the Third World, become the Third World. That’s what we just saw. This won’t stop Trump. He’ll win the election if he’s not killed first. But it does mark the end of the fairest justice system in the world. Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you and your family.
BLAME THEM ILLEGALS!
And people like you, fascist.
No, asswipe, we'll blame TDS-addled shit piles like you. Properly. Stick a barb-wire-wrapped broom stick up your ass.
I favor burning him at the stake.
I was always more a fan of drawing and quartering.
It's a new York jury, did anyone seriously believe this wouldn't result in conviction?
Anyone who doxxes these jurors and their immediate family members would be heroes for the ages, almost as heroic as the Twelve Apostles of Christ!
I wonder how many of them voted for conviction due to that fear.
Don’t worry guys any minute now the constitution is going to break out of its case and put a stop to this
It does not take millions of Trump supporters to doxx jurors.
It only takes one.
They will Dox themselves on MSNBC or CNN.
^
That’s part of the problem. They’re more afraid of them than they are of us. Democrat drones must be disabused of that notion. Several examples must be made.
Correct.
Most non-democrats have businesses and families that they don’t want to see destroyed. Douchebag Democrat activists have nothing better to do and know that if shit gets ugly, the Party will help them out.
The OJ jurors just got trumped for being the dumbest.
I see what you did there.
We could not find one just man in NYC.
He was convicted because of an extreme hate of Donald Trump in Manhattan. The idea Trump voters were misinformed has been the standard cognitive dissonance since 2016. In this instance it was presented as "If the public had just known about stormy, they would have voted different". It's a convenient fiction that allowed the jury to easily justify their desire to convicted.
Trump was accidentally elected by Democrat dereliction and Gary Johnson's 4 million votes. Those made a new deal of 127 electoral votes and the guy who lost the popular vote squeaked by on one but lost three other vote counts. The Dems NOW pay attention to women voters, and God's Own Prohibitionists sent whores and infiltraitors to try to gut and corrupt the Libertarian Party. Funny.
You were accidentally not aborted, steaming pile of shit. Fuck off and die.
Illustrating the potential downside of having one's "peers" on a jury.
https://x.com/DaleStarkA10/status/1796338196172955893?t=jTt2GVqSiVCAs-cf9cdEPw&s=19
The jury system doesn't really work when your country is majority third world economic migrants who've been conditioned to hate you.
Sucks for Canada.
This conviction of POTUS Trump is a stain on our national honor. It is a national disgrace, and a cause for national shame. I am ashamed today for my country, and for what we are becoming.
^+1
I'm actually proud to be an American for the first time in a decade.
Where we held the powerful accountable for once instead of some jackass pardon like Gerald Ford threw Nixon.
"I’m actually proud to be an American for the first time in a decade."
turd posted that; it's being saved.
Shrike is a soros authoritarian shill.
Yeah, I bookmarked it too. Pluggo will be wearing that one for years.
Very cool.
Why don't you tell us about the time you hurt your back trying to suck your own dick?
In general, it is good that the powerful are held to account. The people around here screaming "banana republic!" have no idea what that term really means. The term *actually* means a system in which the ruling class gets to do as they please while exploiting everyone else underneath them. That is the opposite of what is happening here.
But Ron DeSantis actually does half a point here. He says "no one is above the law, but no one is beneath it either". IMO in this country, in some ways, the rich and famous are often held to HIGHER standards than everyone else, because their lives are so public. In the case of Trump, every single detail of his life was scrutinized in a way that none of our lives were (fortunately), and of course he is going to fail any purity test based on that level of scrutiny. ANYONE would fail a test based on that level of scrutiny.
Seems to me, the real problem here isn't that Trump is being held accountable, but that he is being held accountable to laws that are problematic in the first place, to a degree that no one should have to suffer at all. I don't have a lot of sympathy for Trump, because I don't think he's ever said that the law itself is unjust, only that "I'm a victim!!!", always making it about himself - plus, let's not forget, his own infidelity brought on this entire sequence of events. But from a libertarian perspective, let's focus on the real problem, which is campaign finance law, and not on the personality.
But from a libertarian perspective, let’s focus on the real problem, which is campaign finance law, and not on the personality.
No, the real problem is political lawfare. Fuck off with your red herring.
That red herring is his job.
The fat ass gish galloping obese tard can’t define woman much less libertarian.
The last time he told us about the libertarian perspective he was saying the government could shoot trespassers.
It's not "lawfare" if the law itself is just.
It is "lawfare"; however, if the law is used and abused in an unjust manner by the corrupt.
Of course you believe the law itself is just; you’re a committed statist terrified of personal responsibility who enthusiastically moonlights as a dissembling coward. Fuck off, clown.
Elsewhere you talk about libertarians making the case against campaign finance laws, so somewhere in there you understand that the law is unjust.
The real problem is TDS-addled steaming piles of shit like you.
Continue to defend leftist lawfare while claiming not to be an authoritarian jeff.
They’re screaming Banana Republic because there’s about 100 ways this case was fucked from top to bottom, not the least of which is our asinine campaign finance law (which this technically isn’t)
And I seem to remember a lot of people calling for Trumps impeachment for a phone call asking the President of Ukraine to investigate Biden corruption. What the DNC and Biden Administration has done over the last eight years is orders of magnitude worse.
Trump is an outsider to the "ruling class". They despise him. Bragg's case is the culmination of the ruling class's efforts to expel an intruder from their midst by any means necessary. Even breaking the integrity and trust in the judicial system.
The ruling class not being held accountable for their actions is exemplified by the gross and corrupt efforts to suppress and censor the reporting on Hunter Biden's laptop.
Trump may be irresponsible and boorish, but the political establishment, led by the Democrats have been relentless in trashing the foundations of the Republic in order to combat him and protect "democracy", which only properly functions when Democrats win. The actual crime Donald Trump was convicted of was preventing Hillary Clinton's coronation in 2017.
The people around here screaming “banana republic!” have no idea what that term really means. The term *actually* means a system in which the ruling class gets to do as they please while exploiting everyone else underneath them. That is the opposite of what is happening here.
Jeffy, you seem to have gotten it backwards. The ruling elite are the Democrats, and this is the powerful going after someone. They hate Trump for several reasons:
1. He got in the way of Hillary’s coronation as de facto queen.
2. He disrupted the administrative state, the “Blob”.
3. He dared to investigate the money laundering going on in Ukraine. This is what got him impeached the first time.
4. He is an apostate to them. Trump was once a Democrat, a darling of the Democrat elite in Manhattan. He turned against them, and therefore he committed the worst crime: apostasy.
+1. Indeed.
I hope Democrats are not the ones who, when it hurts too much to think, give up to a sense of peer pressure unless their own interest appears under scrutiny. I have heard stories of how much jurors may want to get a trial over with if there is no one with a passion to make a case for behalf justice's sake.
I 100% believe they did it to save themselves. They know it's bullshit but they can go to parties and brag about convicting Trump knowing it's going to be overturned on appeal.
In which case, shame on them. That would be an admission that they are willing to trample on the principles which were intended to guide our nation for free drinks.
Shame, shame, shame, shame on them.
And, he'll have the IRS kicking down their doors in a year or so..
When’s Civil War 2 starting, peanuts? Should I start shooting up the lawn of the guy that has a “Hate has no place here” yard sign?
No, but seriously, I care about you all so if you feel compelled to act like an idiot, dress up like Davey Crockett, charge a cop with a loaded gun JUST SAY NO!! Ok? Ok.
I see; you're a pathetic pile of TDS-addled shit.
Fuck off and die.
I hope he gets prosecuted for a capital offense, whether or not there is evidence.
I had plenty of friends arrested at antiwar protests back in the 2000s for failure to disperse. And they were in a fucking road. Is that the type of prosecution you’re talking about?
More like charging them for murder based on dubious legal arguments and forged evidence.
"I had plenty of friends arrested at antiwar protests back in the 2000s for failure to disperse."
First, you never had any friends, shitbag.
And then you, as a pathetic pile of shit, would be incapable of knowing what a "principle" is.
Eat shit and die, TDS-addled asswipe.
Were those wars that then senator Biden voted for?
""I had plenty of friends arrested at antiwar protests back in the 2000s ""
Anti-Bush protests? Or did they continue protesting when Obama inherited the wars like a real war protestor would do?
You may have missed the point.
If shrike goes to Florida with his child porn it might happen.
I have to disagree with the article.
While I accept the legal interpretations of the law advanced by the NY AG are dubious and certainly subject to overturn on appeal, it's not really the jury's job to assess the law, it's to assess the facts presented to them.
And what I think this article completely (and unfairly) disregards is the fact that there were witnesses that supported the prosecution's argument that Trump intended to commit some sort of crime. There was someone who could have testified that Trump did NOT intend to commit these crimes... Donald Trump himself. And he refused to testify. Instead, Trump took the risk that the jurors would find the witnesses against him less credible than his silence on the matter. And it turned out to be a bad gamble.
You write:
"That relied on interacting statutes and questionable assumptions about Trump's knowledge and intent." Again, they'd have been made far more questionable if Trump had testified (and/or had anyone plausibly testify on his behalf) about his intent. I think it's unfair to blast the jury for relying on the testimony it did have vs. the testimony that was purposefully not given by the defense team.
What was this some sort of crime he intended to commit?
Do you not know the basic facts of the case? Three were given:
1) violation of federal campaign finance limits
2) violation of state election laws by unlawfully influencing the 2016 election
3) violation of state tax laws regarding the payment
The jurors did not have to agree on which of these three they each though Trump intended to violate.
And how did Trump- unlawfully influence the 2016 election?
That's the least important of the three.
All 3 are lies. Even the NYT admitted it. Same with CNN.
You were never libertarian lol.
And none of them are true, asswipe.
Ostensibly he influenced it by covering up information that may have swayed voters in the race.
Look, I'm a bit dubious about these crimes too. But they were alleged crimes he was trying to commit and the prosectuition called witnesses supporting the allegations. Trump didn't testify and didn't call any witnesses that compellingly testified him. You or I may have voted differently on the jury, but the fact is they had a basis to vote guilty.
1) not a crime per an FEC commissioner, the edwards verdict, and almost every damn case
2) every politician influences elections retard. You just made campaigning illegal.
3) NDAs have been legal expenses for centuries.
The only fact of the case I’m unclear on is whether the payments were part of the NDA or if Stormy decided she was going to violate the NDA she signed and then extorted Trump over it.
You realize that jury instruction is unconstitutional by SCOTUS precedent? The jurors are required to be unanimous on the legal theory of the case.
Which precedent is that. The jurors don't have to agree on which crime Trump's activities were in furtherance of, only be unanimous that his activities were in furtherance of a crime.
Whatever you say, Judge Merchan.
1) Violation of federal campaign finance limits. In that case the Democrat party leadership is even more guilty.
James O'Keefe exposed the democrat's "Act Blue" scheme that laundered millions using the names of small time or even non donors.
Even assuming Democrat party leadership is "more guilty," what does that have to do with Trump's guilt? Nothing.
Dude, look around you. This is not the place to have a serious discussion about legal issues.
That's assuming he was getting a fair trial which is highly dubious. Let's face it the jurors would have to leave the city if they voted to acquit. Now they can go to fancy parties and brag about bringing down Trump.
It's as fair as any other trial. It's not like this jury was selected by Biden or the DNC. Like any other system, juries are biased. But Trump's team partook in voir dire (jury selection) and got to strike who they didn't want in accordance with the same rules that apply to all Defendants.. There is nothing about this jury that would suggest it's any more or less fair than any other jury.
You're intentionally overlooking the best evidence of all: they voted to hate Trump!
(Hate, convict, it's all the same...)
Trump also took the risk that the non-nazi members of the LP would lick the blacking off his Bally shoes. And it turned out to be a bad gamble.
Yes!
What crime did he intend to commit?
He conspired to influence an election. Just like I entered a criminal conspiracy when I consulted some friends about where we wanted to sit when I bought tickets at the ball game.
So basically, it was a crime for him to beat Hillary Clinton, also known as the Cunt®™.
More importantly, it was a crime to be Donald J. Trump.
No, you've missed an important fact here. He "conspired to influence an election" by telling his lawyer to tell an accounting clerk to record a payment to his lawyer as a legal expense after he already won the election, knowing in advance that this would be a violation of a NY law that has never been tried in court".
It's the world's first time-traveling conspiracy to influence case.
You understand the judge prevented many of the defense witnesses testimony on questionable grounds?
If you're going to employ the, "you understand that" line, you might want to understand them yourself, first.
If the grounds are so "questionable", the judge will get rebuked on appeal. But that won't happen, because the judge ruled according to the law.
Would that be the bitter, vindictive, conniving prostitute that owes Trump a shitload of money after losing to Trump in court? You know.. the one that committed perjury on the stand?
Or the bitter, vindictive, slimy piece of shit ex-attorney that is desperate to save his virgin ass from federal prison? You know.. the one that was convicted for fraud and perjury, and lying to congress.. the one who admitted to embezzling from Trump on the stand?
Which one would you say had the most profound impact on you? And why?
“Would that be the bitter, vindictive, conniving prostitute that owes Trump a shitload of money . . . Or the bitter, vindictive, slimy piece of shit ex-attorney.”
Yes. And obviously, Trump gambled (wrongly) that jurors would share your opinions of them and not convict.
That said, let’s not forget that regardless of what you think of them, Trump slept with the first (and paid her for it) and did business for years with the second (not to mention that Trump himself is obviously as bitter, vindictive, slimy and conniving as Daniels and Cohen). So it probably is a wash when weighing the personalities of each.
I’ll also note that this is not in any way unusual in trials (especially criminal trials). For example, in prosecuting a drug boss, you often have the drug dealers that worked under the boss as witnesses. In white collar crime, you typically have fraudsters that participated in the same crime being charged testify against their fellow fraudsters. It’s up to each jury as to how credible they find these admitted bad actors.
Ultimately, when one side testifies – even with slimy, bitter, vindictive, conniving witnesses like the ones here – and the other side doesn’t testify at all, the side that presents testimony tends to win out.
And as far as I know, Stormy Daniels has never been held liable or guilty for perjury. She did have a case against Trump that was dismissed and was ordered to pay his attorneys' fees, but that's not remotely perjury.
Here is what Republican police officers and Republican prosecutors have a holy, moral duty to do, now.
Police officers, when investigating crimes, have a duty to bury evidence of guilt, and forge and fabricate evidence of innocence, if the suspect is a Republican.
Conversely, if the suspect is a Democrat, they have a duty to forge and fabricate evidence f guilt and bury any evidence of innocence.
Prosecutors must start charging Democrats with felonies, especially capital felonies. They should not let evidence, statute, Brady v. Maryland, or the United States Constitution stand in the way. If they have to suborn perjury, so be it. If they have to collude with police to fabricate evidence, so be it.
The rules have changed.
Do you remember Maraxus?
Because I will never forget Maraxus.
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=161693&sid=bf1e964b2d36e629e063999b4953f65a
***START QUOTE***
You’ve asserted that public officials must be held to a higher moral standard than the rest of humanity. First, I’d like to know why that is the case.
She did uphold the law. She was arrested, went to court, pled guilty to the charges (i.e. she accepted responsibility for her actions), and was punished accordingly. She could have pulled a Perry and attempted to use her position to get out of the DUI charge, but instead she had enough integrity to accept responsility for her actions.
See, when we elect a district attorney, we trust them to do one thing: prosecute crimes. So long as they prosecute crimes, and do that properly and well, they’re doing what we asked them to. They are doing the bare minimum of what we expect from them- correctly using the powers of their office to perform the assigned duty. Driving drunk may reflect poorly on the DA’s character and mean they should not have been elected… but it doesn’t mean they have failed to do the actual job the public trusted them to do. We didn’t elect this DA to be sober, we elected them to prosecute cases.
Seriously, she made a bad decision and followed it up by doing the right thing. What’s blowing my fucking mind is apparently we have shitheads on this board that are attempting to justify Rick “The Dick” Perry making a blatant attempt to shove a shill appointee into one of the few effective anti-corruption enforcement agencies in the state of Texas.
Plus, if you actually read my arguments (which I doubt), you would have to notice that IT DOES NOT MATTER whether Lehmberg has lots of integrity or no integrity. Perry is not being charged with “thinking Lehmberg has no integrity.” He is being charged with misusing the power of his office and threatening to misuse taxpayer money, in order to coerce an elected official into acting in a certain way.
It DOES NOT MATTER that you think Perry was justified in doing so because this particular elected official was dishonorable and inferior. It is not Perry’s place to hire or fire Lehmberg, and it is not his place to threaten to defund a law enforcement operation in an attempt to blackmail her into resigning against her will.
Your appeals to “common sense” do not impress me. Give me a good reason why a moral failing, which incidentally has nothing to do with investigating corruption, should automatically disqualify a person from holding office. You assert without cause that this is the case. Please provide evidence that Lehmberg’s DUI has harmed the PIU’s integrity in any way. If you can’t do this without repeating some version of your “DUIs are rly bad guys” silliness, then maybe you should just go away.
And as for The Hammer, that’s true. He did get his conviction overturned by the Texas Supreme Court, an elected body that consists almost entirely of conservative Republicans. They didn’t think DeLay actually did all that stuff, and Texas doesn’t really have much in the way of campaign finance laws anyway. It makes no matter, though. He was still a cancerous growth on Congress’ asscheek, begging for a public fall from grace. And when he got convicted the first time around, we as a nation are better off for it. Ronnie Earle did humanity a favor when he realized that DeLay broke campaign finance laws, and he did us an even greater one when he got DeLay convicted. Whether or not “justice” was actually served against him isn’t so important. The fact that he no longer holds office though? That’s very important.
Of course! And the people on the Travis Commissioner’s Court would have tossed Lehmberg out on her ass a long time ago. They’re not doing it because there are, frankly, more important things at stake. In a state like Texas where the GOP has historically run roughshod over the Dems, they cannot afford to lose powerful positions like this. Considering the number of cases coming out of the PIU, including, incidentally, a Perry-allied ex-official who channeled millions of dollars to some of his big contributors, the Travis DA’s office has more influence than just about any Democrat in the state. If Perry didn’t have the right to appoint her replacement, and he almost assuredly would have appointed a fairly right-wing replacement, I’m sure the Travis County Dems would like to tell Lehmberg to take a short walk off a long pier. Unhappily, there are more important considerations at hand.
***END QUOTE***
Back in 2014, this was an extremely fringe belief. There was no way Maraxus’s ideals could become mainstream.
Now it is clear that the Democratic Party adopted Maraxus’s ideals.
The Democratic Party is the party of Maraxus, now.
In the animated series Gargoyles, there is a character called Demona, whose schtick was vengeance against those who hurt her and her kind.
To deal with Maraxus, we must become the party of Demona!
We either fight like Demona, or go meekly into the gas chambers they will prepare for us.
There is no third option.
Trump got full due process. And now he will have full appeal rights. Undermining the judicial system makes the MAGAs look desperate and even more anti-American then they already are.
The judicial system has undermined itself. In its defense it was the last branch to do so.
It's not Anti-American it's Anti-[Na]tional So[zi]alist.
It amazes me how the left thinks their Anti-American "plans" are suppose to be American.
The justice system is already undermined.
Apparently the truth is alien to you.
Trump got full due process....in a kangaroo court.
This trial was a travesty. Just what one would expect in the CCP or the old Soviet Union.
Just skip the preliminaries and shoot 'em in the street.
If Daniel Perry does this again, I would oppose prosecution even if there is zero evidence of self-defense, as long as he does it to subhuman Democratic vermin.
The idiot could have avoided all this if he just wrote her a personal check.
The Michael Cohen recording had Trump suggesting that she be paid with cash. It was Cohen who manufactured the scheme to pay her.
If Cohen had simply loaned Trump the $130K, he would have been repaid $130K plus interest.
There’s no obvious reason to have paid through this convoluted process.
The case was clearly a fraud on the justice system. The judge’s favoritism for the prosecution case is clear in the jury instructions and the refusal to allow the defense to present its best defense.
It should be a slam dunk overturned by the appellate court.
Republicans need to get better at getting out the vote and practicing lawfare.
Retaliatory lawfare is a holy, moral obligation.
I explained it in my comment above.
Tit for tat lawfare depending on which party harvested enough ballots won't end well.
Tit for tat lawfare is better than just meekly going into the gas chambers.
I will quote the first X-Men film.
Because there is no land of tolerance. There is no peace. Not here, or anywhere else.
Sadly and tragically, this is true now.
SO we're talking the Palito, Long Dong, KKKavanaugh, Gorbasuch, Mutterkreuz Mom appellate court?
You could have avoided being outed as a TDS-addled asswipe by not posting that.
[Lol]
House Speaker Mike Johnson said it was a “shameful day in American history” and the charges were “purely political.” Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance said the verdict was a “disgrace to the judicial system.” And Louisiana Rep. Steve Scalise, the No. 2 House Republican, said that the decision was “a defeat for Americans who believe in the critical legal tenet that justice is blind.”
Kneel before your rapey douchebag Palm Beach scumbag God motherfuckers. LOL. Is there anyone decent left in the RP besides— and I’ll acknowledge this is a low bar— Chris Christie?
Hopefully you get framed for a murder you did not commit, and are executed for it.
LOL! You’re cracking me up Michael. All this bile in support of an obvious fucking New York bullshitter and racketeer.
Don’t do anything stupid on his behalf ok? Or give him any money. Or provide any services for him. Only morons now do that.
It's funny you actually believe this is about Trump. It's also funny you believe the present is inoculated against the past.
“Braindead TDS-addled shit-pile”
Well, if we accept the posts from this shitstain as:
“Braindead TDS-addled shit-pile” we can all save some time. Just include that heading in any reply to “Braindead TDS-addled shit-pile” and leave the rest blank.
See above.
Biden took showers with his minor daughter.
Still not as bad as Paul Ryan.
Biden took showers with Paul Ryan?
You'll never be as clever as massa chumby
Go crawl back in your bottle, Sarc.
Romney/Ryan/McCain are worse than any of your people. With their tax cuts and compromises...
Can't wait for the Canadian division to find a permanent solution to that problem.
Not quite sure what you're on about.
You know exactly what I'm on about moron
“Braindead TDS-addled shit-pile”
So Biden and RFK have already weighed in on the verdict. I'm waiting to see what the LP and Chase Oliver say in reaction to this.
For some reason I think I can already guess.
Unsurprising
https://x.com/LPNH/status/1796293253102453015?t=0ut07vOQuD83R7Rupx_Q5A&s=19
Chase Oliver has NEVER been convicted of a felony in New York state!
Vote Libertarian!
[Pic]
The LP cannot possibly get few enough votes for the sheer uselessness of its organization.
Sullum could've added depth to the Rocky Horror dialogue.
RIFFRAFF: You're wet!
AUDIENCE:
JANET: It's raining!
AUDIENCE:
RIFFRAFF: The jury convicted Orange Hitler.
JANET: THEY BOUGHT THE NARRATIVE!!
AUDIENCE:
What I think Jacob Sullum is missing in this article is that as convoluted and complex as the prosecution case was, they did make the case. The law exists and the prosecution was able to show it was violated. What is also true is that like in so many other cases that have involved Trump his defense did a poor job. Trump prefers to talk outside the courtroom where he is in no danger of being challenged. Inside the courtroom, where the same laws apply to the rich and the poor, he never says a word.
Many will say this was a rigged court. But Occam's razor would suggest that Trump has long played close to the edge of the law and time has caught up with him.
No they didn't, and the judge said they didn't have to worry about it in his instructions to the jury. You're just flat out lying now.
Sorry, what law? The prosecution can't even tell me which law was violated. They have a choose a), b), or c) scenario.
It is like a jury convicting someone of triple murder even though the jury failed to unamimously conclude that the defendant murdered any particular victim.
Merchant jury instructions s literally say you're wrong. It was a choose your own adventure for the predicate crime.
Hi Mother's Lament. How are things in Canada?
That's right, Sarckles, Jesse and I sound exactly the same, just like your socks.
You never had me muted sarc. So drunk you fucked up lol.
So this is why you don't have a list, twerp. You don't actually have anyone on mute.
What I think you're missing is a second brain cell.
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled asswipe.
The law in question is ridiculous. The statute of limitations had run out. The case is a state interpreting and upholding a federal law, which is of dubious constitutionality, at best. The prosection's case itself is a perversion of law.
It is not the jury's job to decide that a law is ridiculous that is the job of the legislature. The jury is asked to consider whether the law was violated, and they did what was asked of them. What would be interesting is to look at the law's history and understand why it was enacted. Was it designed for a case like this or merely available for a case like this? Any lawyers out there know the answer?
Given that this is the only time it has been used like this, your inquiry was already answered.
I wonder if Bragg can be shot and then charged with stealing a bullet...
I think you are wrong that the law has never been used. It appears to be used commonly.
https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/
''Standing alone, falsification charges would have been mere misdemeanors under New York law, which posed two problems for the DA. First, nobody cares about a misdemeanor, and it would be laughable to bring the first-ever charge against a former president for a trifling offense that falls within the same technical criminal classification as shoplifting a Snapple and a bag of Cheetos from a bodega. Second, the statute of limitations on a misdemeanor — two years — likely has long expired on Trump’s conduct, which dates to 2016 and 2017.
So, to inflate the charges up to the lowest-level felony (Class E, on a scale of Class A through E) — and to electroshock them back to life within the longer felony statute of limitations — the DA alleged that the falsification of business records was committed “with intent to commit another crime.” Here, according to prosecutors, the “another crime” is a New York State election-law violation, which in turn incorporates three separate “unlawful means”: federal campaign crimes, tax crimes, and falsification of still more documents. Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments. So much for the constitutional obligation to provide notice to the defendant of the accusations against him in advance of trial. (This, folks, is what indictments are for.)
In these key respects, the charges against Trump aren’t just unusual. They’re bespoke, seemingly crafted individually for the former president and nobody else.""
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-was-convicted-but-prosecutors-contorted-the-law.html
Well that throws ot the ntion of jury nullification.
The jury was given an unconstitutional instruction for finding a guilty verdict. There is suppose to unamiity on the theory of the case, not just guiltly for multiple choice reasons. That is corruption on the judge's part.
The novel theory as described in the article is corruption on the prosecution's and judge's part.
It is hard to imagine given what is required to find "guilty" how a juror can conclude guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in the twisted logic of the theory of the case.
Oh the hell it isn't! Jury nullification absolutely is the jury's job, perhaps the most important part of their job.
Do various trolls who continue to change their handles in order to avoid the 'mute' feature a violation of TOS?
Changing the handle doesn't avoid the mute feature, mute blocks the account itself. It's why people who have been muted are still grey-boxed when the sockpuppet.
So the new guys actually subscribed to come here and troll?
That's commitment. They can still fuck off, they're just antisocial assholes trying to derail and muddy dicourse, but at least it costs them money now.
Not new at all. You only have to mute me once.
Fuck the 5-10 commenters that think it's their job to enforce conformity and allegiance to trump.
What new guys? Most of them just changed their names to display their loyalty. But one of them changes his name every week.
Yeah, I'd like to know that, too.
The only reason I signed up, originally, was to be able to mute these guys.
They've created a martyr.
Surprised you didn't drink yourself to death in glee yet.
Hi Mother's Lament. How are things in Canada?
Fantastic! I'm sure that our Nazi PM is celebrating the show trial just like you.
Here is Ron DeSantis.
https://x.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1796288427924639987
What he needs to do is announce publicly that he will order the state government to resist extradition, and authorize the use of lethal force against anyone who tries to carry out extradition.
Every Republican governor should do the same,. It is their holy, moral duty.
1. Thank you Mr. Sullum for your excellent reporting on this story. It has just the right mix of empirical facts and fact-based opinions that don't make it too dry nor too didactic.
2. I just chatted with a friend about this verdict, he is neither a New York progressive nor a MAGA Republican, just a conservative-leaning guy who doesn't particularly like Trump. He was broadly supportive of the verdict, for two reasons:
(1) Campaign finance laws are so weak, if this is the only way that they can be enforced, then so be it. "Bribery shouldn't be allowed as a campaign expense" is how he put it.
(2) Trump has done so much shady shit over his lifetime, that this represents a type of "karmic justice".
Now, the hush money wasn't really a bribe, but that is how my friend saw it; and "karmic justice" is not a substitute for actual justice, of course. But I think this is illustrative of how a great many people are going to view this verdict. Not as some pump-fisting joy of celebration, not as some call to arms out of outrage, but mildly supportive, or maybe even mildly opposed, but not exactly rage-inducing. Keep that in mind when you are planning your Civil War 2 strategies.
3. And, let's just review: none of this would have happened if Trump hadn't cheated on his wife and slept with a porn star. This is why Trump is unfit for office. Because HE HAS BAD JUDGMENT. Was this a politically motivated prosecution? Oh of course it was. But Trump certainly made the prosecutors' job a lot easier and gave them a lot of ammo with his own actions as a result of his own poor judgment.
4. And if your response is going to be "they would have gone after any Republican like they did Trump" - well, they haven't. Do you remember how Democrats broadly regarded W. Bush, circa 2008? To them, Bush was a *war criminal* who not only left Iraq in ruins, but our own country too due to the Great Recession. They HATED him. And yet I haven't seen anyone "go after" Bush for any reason, at least not legally. Look at how Democrats regard DeSantis, or Abbott, now. Don't you think there are creative DAs in blue cities in Florida or Texas who would go after them? But they haven't. No, this really is about Trump and just Trump, and how he likes to go right to the very edge of what constitutes legal behavior, and sometimes go over the line.
5. Let's remember, the crimes that Trump was charged with, were pursuant to existing law that has been on the books in New York for a long time. This was not a new law that was passed just to "get Trump" (as was arguably the case with the Carroll case). This was the application of existing law to Trump's bad behavior. So if you object to this verdict - and for good reason, IMO - perhaps we can put to rest the idea that the law should be obeyed and enforced no matter what, even if the law is unjust or immoral.
6. And finally, this prosecution would not have occurred had it not been for the confusing murky mess which is campaign finance law. Campaign finance law, like immigration law, should be torn out by root and branch, and reimagined entirely. If there is some libertarian policy message that can emerge from this verdict, let us hope it is about getting rid of most campaign finance law.
You dont have friends let alone conservative ones. Not even NYT or CNN thought the case was strong, all asking what the predicate crime was.
Youre an authoritarian leftist who lies to defend the actions and state abuses of the left.
Fuck off fats.
Your ignorance is also amazing. Look up Jack Smiths case against Bob McDonnell or the case against Michael Flynn. Youre just lying.
5. Let’s remember, the crimes that Trump was charged with, were pursuant to existing law that has been on the books in New York for a long time. This was not a new law that was passed just to “get Trump”
This one is my favorite as the NY election law cited has never been tried in court. But youre inferring Trump intentionally went to violate it. NDAs are not campaign expenses you retarded leftist fuck.
You and sa4c are gon a have a wild night blasting each other from the excitement you finally got your political enemy. True Nazis.
Hi Mother's Lament. How are things in Canada?
Wow. You truly are this retarded sarc? Lol.
My handle is in the fucking name retard. Go mute and compare to the roundup links you retarded drunk fuck.
More proof you dont actually mute me. Lol.
Anyone can create a throwaway email address, Mother’s Lament. Just like you did, Mother’s Lament. It’s easy. Just ask Mother’s Lament.
Look at the hostility. Look at the hate. Look at the mental illness.
Look at the Canadian.
Hi Canadian. What's it like wishing you were an American, Canadian?
ML really has become unhinged lately.
He's trying desperately to make my mute list. It is a badge of honor around here.
Sarc... bookmarking this as proof next time you claim you have me muted lol.
Sure Canadian. Whatever you say.
He's been celebrating the show trial and got into the mouthwash (payday isn't until tomorrow).
Don't expect him to 'remember' tomorrow, because that post was Tulpa or something.
You and sarc sure love your authoritarian left. All while claiming not to be leftists.
Maybe thats what happens when you read Katie Hill and Sulu jeff.
It's not so much the left. Jeff calling himself a "conservative" on his blog made me realize that he's a weird hybrid of royalist/elitist/fascist rather than a classical lefty. He's enamored with authority and divine right (although he repudiates the idea of the divine).
He'll do anything for top men.
Sounds like Trump.
You responded to this post by sarc by calling someone else unhinged?
You truly are retarded lol. How drunk are you celebrating?
He may be celebrating 5-30 with 6 40s.
I’m just surprised that you, along with Sevo and Nardz, haven’t begun your mass murder campaign, starting with Prius owners.
That’s my bellwether. When mass murder over car brands start, I’ll know you and the rest of Trump’s Deranged Supporters have gone full TDS.
Cite?
Only a Trump defender would require a citation for a personal opinion. Thinking for yourself might get you on ML’s murder list.
Besides myself, jeff and SPB, who else in these comments would you like to see murdered?
Strawman. Wishful thinking.
And Prius isn’t a brand, it is a model.
Your cite fell off.
You didn’t answer my question. Who else do you with death upon besides me, jeff and SPB?
In addition to me, how many millions of Americans do you wish were dead because they don’t support Trump?
I'd like the parents of neighborhood children to get ahold of Lying Jeffy and Buttplug and do what they feel necessary.
You? I don't want anything bad to happen to you, at least not anything serious. Maybe slip on a banana peel or something. But you're my favorite clown here sarc. I might even start a gofundme for you to foot the 25 bucks when Reason kicks off all the grandfathered accounts.
Used to be that patriots supported their country. Now they must support a politician. A game show host. Or be marked for death.
Or maybe I'm wrong and Trump's followers are a bunch of pussies.
"ML’s murder list"
Oh? What's this?
A new little troll? You want to explain it for us, Sarckles?
Now they must support a politician. A game show host. Or be marked for death.
You're marking Trump supporters for death? Didn't you say you're a lousy shot?
What are you going to do? Convince them to drive the same road as you after a night at the bar?
So broken. I would have guessed this team Biden victory would have lightened your mood, but now you are acting double broken. First Colt 45 did it and now Trump 45.
"Used to be that patriots supported their country. Now they must support a politician."
Used to be patriots supported their country. Now they must support the current regime ruling the country. Even if they rule by fraud, intimidation and violence.
Simpletons don't know the difference.
"Trump has done so much shady shit over his lifetime, that this represents a type of “karmic justice”."
So your imaginary "conservative leaning" friend (lol, nobody believes this, Lying Jeffy) is a fascist just like you.
I’d believe an owner of a bakery or doughnut shop near Jeff that also happens to be conservative is friendly with Jeff. And why not?
That's just good business.
When a baker is making that one dough for and from one customer…
This is why Trump is unfit for office. Because HE HAS BAD JUDGMENT.
You're under the impression that this case is answering some kind of election question? It's not. It's whether or not he committed a felony. Maybe you'd vote guilty because he's a bad president, but that is not how the law is supposed to work. We convict based on crimes, not because we dislike the things they do.
And this was not a felony. It certainly wasn't 34 felonies, giving him a separate charge for every document. (They should really just start charging by the letter, since every letter of every document is an act furthering the conspiracy, right?)
There are plenty of people who think Trump is a terrible person and a terrible president and that this prosecution was entirely unjust. It's asshats like you who want to roll all of his character out there and just let a jury pass a referendum on whether he's a good person or not. If that was the standard, we might be shocked at how few people can actually measure up and stay out of prison.
This was a travesty of justice because a person was targeted in a district where they were politically unpopular. And the motivation for doing is was entirely political animus.
Maybe you’d vote guilty because he’s a bad president, but that is not how the law is supposed to work. We convict based on crimes, not because we dislike the things they do.
Now we do.
If I were a juror, I would acquit a Republican defendant, even if he confessed in open court.
If I were a juror, I would convict a Democratic defendant, even if there was video evidence from three angles proving innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.
The rules have changed.
I did not want the rules to change, but others changed them for me.
Life is not a party game, where we can just pick up our toys and go home if we do not like the change in the rules.
We have to play by these new rules, whether we like them or not.
""It certainly wasn’t 34 felonies""
Charge stacking. I've been saying for decades it's gotta go. I thought liberals believed it too. But I guess not.
No longer: orangemanbad.
Oh FFS read what I wrote. This entire episode started with a very poor decision on Trump 's part to cheat on his wife. No cheating, no prosecution. His bad judgment is the genesis of the whole thing. That is my point.
I don't care about him having bad judgement or being a perv. I care about the fact that he's been convicted of a crime on spurious charges. The fact that he stuck it into a porn star is a reason not to vote for him and not a reason to put him in prison.
Do you realize there's a difference between not liking a person and thinking he belongs in jail?
I don’t care about him having bad judgement
HIS BAD JUDGMENT STARTED THE WHOLE THING. Bad judgment generally leads to bad consequences, and they are not always fair nor the consequences that we think we deserve. You are right, sleeping with a porn star isn't and shouldn't be the basis of a felony conviction. But the fact remains, no sex with porn star means no conviction today.
This is one thing that is so frustrating to me. It is as if you can never hold Trump accountable for ANYTHING. He made a demonstrably bad decision to cheat on his wife and sleep with a porn star. It shouldn't be illegal, it shouldn't be a felony, this trial shouldn't have happened, but would it pain you at all to say even once "yeah, that was a bad call"?
Here, Lying Jeffy admits that his moral judgement is adequate for criminal prosecution out of one side of his mouth, while saying it's not out of the other.
Keep in mind he doesn't think castrating children is immoral.
If they were rational and coherent, they'd probably say that Trump's bad judgement is irrelevant to his first criminal conviction. And they'd be right.
This is simply not the time or place to note that they have a severe blind spot when it comes to Trump's numerous failings.
If Trump didn't win the 2016 election, do you think we would be hearing about this? Trump winning 2016 is the genesis.
No politician cheated more on his wife than Bill Clinton. It's not even a competition. The democrats don't care about cheating, sleeping with porn stars, or flying on Epstein's jet.
It's been get Trump at any cost from day one.
You're talking to someone who thinks this is apparently a poll about who people should vote for in the next election, and not a criminal trial. The criminal justice system is not used for finding solutions to political questions, like whether someone deserves to be president.
Well, that changed. People who think this is okay because Trump shouldn't have fucked a porn star in the first place are burning the entire system of justice in this country to the ground. It will not end peacefully.
There are SOME PEOPLE out there who view this result as "karmic justice". I think it's important to recognize that, even if we don't agree with it.
Then they should be prosecuted.
Are you sure? Why waste money on trials?
Karmic justice has no place in a court of law.
Your right that it is important to recognize that, but I don't know if it's for the reasons you think.
Karmic justice is just a euphemism for revenge.
As I've written before, revenge before justice. If you weren't such a dogmatic parasite, you'd be terrified.
If Trump didn’t win the 2016 election, do you think we would be hearing about this? Trump winning 2016 is the genesis.
Trump winning in 2016 is what put him under the microscope. Which is by the way the same thing that happens to all people in power. But it was Trump's actions which determined what we would all see once we all got to see what the microscope revealed.
If, in an alternate universe, Trump wins in 2016 but didn't sleep with a porn star, there would be no trial and no conviction today. True or False?
No politician cheated more on his wife than Bill Clinton.
Do you not think Clinton paid a price for his infidelity? Again it was only because he held a position of power that we all got to find out who he was having sex with. Of course Democrats are hypocrites on the matter, it's about power rather than principle. Just like Republicans don't care about infidelity anymore now that their guy Trump is their leader.
"Do you not think Clinton paid a price for his infidelity?"
Can you cite the price?
I mean, outside of "being with Hillary"?
He seems to have been made insanely wealthy. Still fucks tons of women. Fucked children with Epstein more than most people who fucked children with Epstein.
Where, EXACTLY, was his "price"?
"If Trump didn’t win the 2016 election, do you think we would be hearing about this?"
If Obama's attempted coup had been more successful we wouldn't be hearing about this.
Dude. You are on fire tonight. Great comment.
Just how much "hush money" was paid to Paula Jones to keep her quiet about her tryst with Bill Clinton?
Then, there's Minca Lewinsky and the blue dress.
If there weren’t 8 years of trying to pin anything they possibly could on him, you might have a point. If the DA hadn’t literally campaigned on finding him guilty of something, you might have a point.
OMG. People in positions of power get scrutinized under a microscope. Why exactly do we know about Biden's shower habits? Because Republicans have turned over every stone trying to find any dirt that they can on him. Because they wish to bring him down. That is the nature of power. What we are seeing is not particularly shocking or new. It is the way both teams operate.
Now it is time for Republican prosecutors and Republican cops to play hardball.
They need to start framing Democrats for crimes, real or imagined.
Two wrongs make a right. Winger that is.
Retaliation and payback are always justified.
High ground is for losers.
Staying on the high ground only guarantees a fast track to the gas chamber!
There is no high ground in politics.
Democrats are actually using the state to criminalize political opposition and sarc defends it against using the state against the ones using the state. Because sarc is a dem defending Nazi.
“Bad judgment” is not evidence of a crime. “This wouldn’t have happened if Trump didn’t sleep with a porn star” is as dumb as “That black kid ran from the police so he must be guilty” or “She shouldn’t have been dressed so lewdly in that bad neighborhood.” It’s irrelevant to the merits of a trial.
It’s also irrelevant that the law wasn’t “created just for Trump”, which is some sort of a weird strawman. Bragg is trying to shoehorn in separate (federal) charges on state laws on records. It’s as contrived as the feds trying to nail Flynn with a Logan Act for a process crime. That’s why Sullum repeatedly characterized Bragg’s strategy as a “novel legal theory”. You didn’t actually read the article.
Your position is as incoherent as the case itself. You say the federal campaign finance law is a mess and should be uprooted. But you also seem to approve of your friend’s opinion that campaign finance law is so weak that cases like this how someone like Trump can be punished. Which is it?
If the NDA wasn’t a bribe, then the case is over. Who cares if your friend think its Karmic justice? Or the public perception? The public might be elated if a P Diddy was wrongfully convicted of murder, because he has a history of beating women. You consider that normal? Justice?
The democrats / left have staged witch hunt on Brett Kavanaugh. Remember him? They tried to railroad Flynn. They illegally placed surveillance on Carter Page. The Twitter file? IRS under Lois Lerner? Covington kids? Kyle Rittenhouse? The Biden admin targeting pro life groups and parents at school meetings? George Bush was first elected in 2000, more 20 years ago. The country was at war, and the democrat party wasn’t batcrap insane at the time.
You didn’t actually read Sullum’s article, which basically destroyed Bragg’s case from the viewpoint of a Trump critic. Although I disagree with him on some issues, I can see that he’s intellectually honest. YOU, on the other hand, is essentially saying that it’s ok to accept this nonsensical verdict because it’s punishment for Trump’s immoral behavior.
You didn't read what I wrote. Why do so many people have reading comprehension issues around here?
“Bad judgment” is not evidence of a crime.
You're right and I didn't say that it was! Instead, it was Trump's bad judgment to CHOOSE to cheat on his wife which started this whole avalanche of events. No one forced him to do that. No Democrat forced him to sleep with a porn star. What happened to personal responsibility? You social conservatives love to harp on that. When are you ever going to hold Trump responsible for his actions? You claim to not be a Trump supporter. Maybe you could actually demonstrate that by taking this opportunity to criticize Trump when he has done something that is pretty close to objectively wrong.
Trump chose to cheat on his wife and sleep with a porn star.
He then compounded that decision even further by trying to cover it up.
He then made it even worse by trying to cover it up in this convoluted way, using Cohen and this fake corporation, which *made him look guilty* even if he wasn't actually guilty of breaking any law.
You're right, none of that are felonies. You're right, he shouldn't have been prosecuted for that. But the fact remains, he wouldn't have been prosecuted at all if he had not chosen to sleep around in the first place, and make the situation even worse by trying to cover it up in a way that made him look guilty in the process.
You say the federal campaign finance law is a mess and should be uprooted. But you also seem to approve of your friend’s opinion that campaign finance law is so weak that cases like this how someone like Trump can be punished. Which is it?
I did not say I agreed with my friend's opinion, I am only pointing out how others see the case. They justify it to themselves as an imperfect enforcement of campaign finance law. IMO the campaign finance law itself is the problem.
The rest of your screed is just a bunch of right-wing talking points. I am frankly tired of refuting the whole "Biden targeting parents at school board meeting" lie, but it is just repeated so much in the right-wing world that it has become socially-constructed truth, in post-modernist form.
When are you ever going to hold Trump responsible for his actions?
You keep saying Trump needs to be held responsible for his actions, and you keep saying his bad act is that he fucked a porn star. It's like you're the one who doesn't understand the words you're using. And if you think this was a bad decision in a bad case, why do you need to defend it with, "Well here's how some people see it?"
If, in your opinion, the case was wrongly decided, that is BAD. You don't need to hedge on it, just condemn it. The problem is that you don't seem to think it's bad because Trump is a bad person and had this coming to him eventually, in one way or another.
And if you think this was a bad decision in a bad case, why do you need to defend it with, “Well here’s how some people see it?”
I'm not defending it. I am relating what I experienced as to how others view this case, because there's a lot of people around here going batshit insane about civil war because of this. My prediction is that this verdict is not going to lead to any sort of mass groundswell of support for Trump. It will be business as usual.
"I’m not defending it."
I don't call him Lying Jeffy for nothing.
The problem is that you don’t seem to think it’s bad because Trump is a bad person and had this coming to him eventually, in one way or another.
No. I think that Trump is being punished unfairly for his very poor judgment in the past. I think that people around here who aren't just MAGA cultists can easily recognize how none of this would have happened if Trump had just kept his dick in his pants.
“When are you ever going to hold Trump responsible for his actions?”
Is directly contradicted by
“No. I think that Trump is being punished unfairly for his very poor judgment in the past.”
And it’s victim blaming to boot.
It is not a contradiction. The people complaining the loudest about this verdict refuse to acknowledge Trump's own role in creating this mess in the first place.
Jeff, you are literally defending state abuse because of your perceived morality issues with the victim. Youre a fucking fascist clown.
"which started this whole avalanche of events."
LMAO.
Ever since George Bush was elected, the Democrat party began to be infiltrated by radical left wing extremists and neo-Marxists. All trained by Marxist college professors.
I wonder how many wrongfully convicted people are cringing when they hear people say shit like the jury has spoken.
Wrongful conviction stories are Reason's stock in trade, but look at Jeffy and Sarckles trying to convince us it's holy writ.
So, let's preface this by saying that I am in no way shape or form a Trump supporter. I didn't vote for him, twice; and so far he's done nothing to earn one in the future. I don't want him to be President, and I'm not going to vote for him simply because Joe is worse. (And no, that doesn't mean Joe will be getting my vote either. Nor, for the record, will the We Hate Libertarianism Libertarian choice of whoever that pedo twink is they nominated.)
That said, this is going to be the fastest appeal/acquittal in the history of American jurisprudence. If anyone thinks that Trump got a straight, fair, objective, impartial trial by jury of his peers - after having watched both the prosecution and judge - then that's your hyper-prejudiced tribalism at work. (And shame on you.)
For the last decade or so, I've been defending the Justice System against MAGA morons who scream about "two tiered justice" and "lawfare" and "prosecuting political enemies." And I've been doing it in the face of watching children be stripped from parents who refuse to participate in the LGBT pedo assault on education; I've been doing it in the face of overt persecution of Christians and Jews in the legal system; I've been doing it while watching Democrat cities give criminals - even really really bad ones - a no-bail revolving door to the Courthouse; I've been doing it while watching the Courts give higher priority to criminal illegal aliens than American citizens.
And I can't do it anymore. Not after today. I can't make that defense anymore - at least, not in these blue jurisdictions. Because that's exactly what all this was. Two-tiered justice, at the hands of a society that has embraced the most evil of social/political/moral arguments: the ends justify the means. Don the Con was guilty before they even had the trial. Of what? Who knows, who cares - the point was to find him guilty. The point was to slap him with the label "convicted felon." The next step will be to get that picture of him behind bars.
The Justice System - like the rest of the government - has become weaponized against a certain demographic of the population. And it's going to get worse from here. As libertarians, this should bother you greatly. That so many seem to be reveling in reveals what you really are.
And, for the record, if you think this was some deathblow to the MAGA cult - think again. Within 20 minutes of the announced verdict, they crashed the internet with donations to his campaign. If anything, all this accomplished was to radicalize them further. Donald especially. WHEN he wins in 2024 - which today just guaranteed - do you not think that Mr. Race To The Bottom against the scumbag left, whose degeneracy and lust for power HAS no bottom, is not going to come back and take a pound of flesh? He plays by THEIR rules. Has since the very beginning!
What do you think that means for the future of America?
Maybe ask China. Or Russia. Or Iran. They know.
So let’s preface this with the imbecilic comment of a TDS-addled pile of shit:
“…I didn’t vote for him, twice; and so far he’s done nothing to earn one in the future. I don’t want him to be President…”
Here, TDS-addled asswipe:
1) DeVos
2) Gorsuch
3) Kavanaugh
4) Ajit Pai, end net price fixing
5) Major reduction in the growth of regulations.
6) Dow +35%
7) Unemployment at 3.0% (!)
8) The US Manufacturing Index soared to a 33 year high
9) Got repeal of the national medical insurance mandate.
10) Withdrawal from Paris climate agreement.
11) Not sure about the tax reform; any “reform” that leaves me subisdizing Musk’s customers is not what I hoped for. Let Musk run a company for once. But cutting taxes is good.
12) Pulled support for the $13 billion Hudson Tunnel project.
13) More than 16,000 jobs have been cut from the federal leviathan
14) MIGHT have a deal to de-nuke NK.
15) Killed moonbeam’s choo-choo
16) Supported and signed First Step Act.
17) “Right to Try” act
And finally:
18) Still making lefties steppin and fetchin like their pants is on fire and their asses are catchin’
To repeat, I did not vote for the guy; he’s a blow-hard and a loose cannon, but by accident or design, he’s doing better than any POTUS I can remember”
Got another POTUS who did as well since silent Cal, or would you like to simply admit you are a TDS-addled slimy pile of shit, TDS-addled steaming pile of shit?
Oh, and let me add that I sincerely hope your TDS-addled imbecility gets you invited to parties where you can prove your TDS-addled imbecility; you deserve it.
Fuck off and die.
You left off that inconvenient attempted coup. You remember the one where he spent weeks organizing an illegal effort to ignore the will of the voters and install himself as an unelected president?
There are times I'm happy to have not muted TDS-addled lying shits like you and this is one of them:
"You left off that inconvenient attempted coup."
Which is a product of your fantasy; never happened. Got a cite?
"You remember the one where he spent weeks organizing an illegal effort to ignore the will of the voters and install himself as an unelected president?"
No, I don't remember such and you have nothing other than bullshit to support your claims, but that's not surprising from a bullshit artist like you.
Got cites?
Does the misunderstanding of the word coup surprise you?
MAGAs denying the attempted coup look about as stupid as flat earthers.
Oh sweetie….
I hope a Republican prosecutor decides to prosecute you for imagined crimes.
Did you like Al Gore's attempted coup in 2000?
If it wasn't for those hanging chads.......
I hear they are all part of the Magic Mike show now.
TDS-addled lefty shits who make up new word definitions aren't quite bright enough to get on the flat-earth roller coaster.
Which coup attempt was that?
In what way was the effort illegal?
If anything, the whole Muellere investigation was more like a coup attempt.
Language.
Look, I get it. You like having a benevolent dictator. So does the Marxist Left. MAGA and Marxism have so much in common with each other. Really, the only thing you disagree with is policy. On governance and Americanism, you're exactly the same.
I'm not so much in the benevolent dictator camp. And I like someone who promises to represent me, instead of calling me names when I refuse or threatening me with the "alternative" if I don't. Donald doesn't do any of that. Doesn't even try.
He doesn't want my vote. So be it.
"Look, I get it. You like having a benevolent dictator."
Look, I get it. You are a TDS addled steaming pile of shit willing to drag any strawman into the argument in the hopes that you are not identified as a steaming pile of TDS addled shit.
Did you have anything other than you fucking idiotic fantasies to add?
Fuck off and die; make the world a better place.
You should probably look up the definition of "straw man."
Also, there's two variants of TDS. So, I'd be careful if I were you, throwing stones at glass houses.
"You should probably look up the definition of “straw man.”..."
Nope, and you're good at dragging them around.
"...Also, there’s two variants of TDS. So, I’d be careful if I were you, throwing stones at glass houses"
Nope. TDS addled shitpiles wish there were, but nope, TDS-addled shitpile.
The projection. I mean, it's like you're indistinguishable from the average leftist.
What dictator?
The only way you can be a dictator is to either eliminate Congress, or stack it with your selection of people so you are surrounded by no one who will oppose you.
I don't see Trump, Biden, Hillary, Kamala, anyone doing that.
The "dictator" term is an attempt to scare, and I've told to watch out for people who will try to sway using scare tactics.
Wrong. You're ignoring three relatively new things in American Government: 1) executive order; 2) emergency declaration; and 3) the fourth branch.
And, really, let's not pretend that the mainstream media (on both sides) aren't not-so-secret fifth columnists.
Trump says, "I'm going to build a wall." Congress says, "No you aren't."
Trump does it anyway.
Biden says, "I'm going to forgive student loans." The Supreme Court says, "No you aren't."
Biden does it anyway.
The fact that Americans now put so much emphasis and attention on the Executive Branch - which, of the three, is supposed to be the weakest - tells us just how much of a benevolent dictatorship the MAGA/Marxists want. They want top down. A big guy in charge calling the shots, everyone else be damned.
Two sides, same coin.
""1) executive order; 2) emergency declaration; and 3) the fourth branch.""
1) Executive orders don't make for a dictator . FDR made an executive order that imprisoned people just because they were Japanese Americans. Did that make FDR a dictator? The closest thing FDR being a dictator is the voters kept him in office until he died. FDR did some shady shit. The use of EOs did not make him a dictator.
2) Have you forgot the pandemic and all the emergency declaration. So the NYC gov and mayors were dictators? NO, They may have behaved like one, but that doesn't actually make you one.
3) WTF is the fourth branch?
Is the fourth branch these guys?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/george-stephanopolous-tells-the-view-the-deep-state-is-packed-with-patriots/ar-BB1mnwbA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=cacecb845e3a4bf5ae5ec2549008afd1&ei=61
Did that make FDR a dictator?
Yes. I mean, that’s in part why the guy was literally the worst president in American history. In fact, the starting point of the downfall of America was ON his watch – specifically, on March 29, 1937 – and a direct result of what he was threatening to do. That was the anti-American snowball HE packed that’s been rolling downhill ever since.
They may have behaved like one, but that doesn’t actually make you one.
*eyeroll*
What’s next? “He just molested a bunch of kids, but that doesn’t make him a pedophile.”
Spare the the brain-off Newspeak.
WTF is the fourth branch?
Wow. See, now this is why civics is so necessary to elementary school education.
It’s the administrative and regulatory state.
Here, don’t take it from me – I’ll let the proggy explain it.
https://progressivereform.org/cpr-blog/strengthening-4th-branch-government/
Biden has:
1. Made multiple attempts to use regulatory laws, like those governing OSHA, to impose COVID vaccine mandates, bypassing Congress.
2. Has successfully found ways to do student loan forgiveness, without consulting Congress.
3. Is implementing multiple thousand page regulation changing the meaning of Title IX which eliminates the rights of the accused in Collegiate investigation. Again, without consulting Congress.
When Octavian set himself as the first Emperor, he did not eliminate the Senate or the other trappings of the Republic. They were just largely irrelevant to him ruling as he wanted.
Biden can be impeached if Congress chooses for ignoring SCOTUS.
If Biden loses will he leave office? Of course.
There is a big difference between being an actual dictator and simply behaving like one.
Dude. You are a moron.
Get him guys! Fling that shit!
Oh, and
"What do you think that means for the future of America?"
That TDS-addled shits like you might have to deal with reality rather than the idiotic voices in your head.
Please, please, do us a favor; fuck off and die, shitstain.
"If anyone thinks that Trump got a straight, fair, objective, impartial trial by jury of his peers – after having watched both the prosecution and judge – then that’s your hyper-prejudiced tribalism at work. (And shame on you.)"
THIS. No one serious could possibly think this was anything but a political witch hunt.
NDAs are legal. It is a binding contract between two parties. Even without the proper instruction, the jury should know this already. I KNOW THIS, and I'm not even white. I wasn't even born in this country! To my knowledge, a state has never indicted anyone for election interference over a NDA. John Edwards paid his mistress with campaign funds disguised as payment for haircuts and furniture. He got off free. How does that work?
How does misreporting the hush payment as legal expense in 2017 even remotely cover up the act? If he filed it as campaign finance, we wouldn't have known? Aren't NDAs sealed public record? When a "victim" agrees to the NDA, reasonable voters will take it as the person foregoing criminal charges. A tryst isn't sexual assault, so it's not a crime to begin with. I have to know the lurid details of Stormy's sex acts to make determination on Trump's fitness for office?
Given that the jurors of that trial were unspeakable morons, Merchan had even more of duty to properly guide them on the law. he did the exact opposite. The guy was the Angel Hernandez of the courtroom. The buffoonish fact checkers would have you believe that his instruction to the jury was standard since jurors need not be unanimous on 3 methods of murder to arrive on a murder conviction.
The cover up (misreporting campaign expense as legal expense) was effectively the means. The 3 separate crimes that only required a 4-4-4 split were the end games. The reverse doesn't make sense, since if the NDA wasn't campaign finance violation, then whether the misreporting amounted to a cover up would be moot point. Bragg would have to try the tax fraud charge separately.
Trump essentially had 60% chance of losing somewhere. It's so ridiculous. I served on a jury in LA, one of the bluest cities in the west coast. I can guarantee that jury would not have reached this verdict. The jury in this case were as compromised as the OJ jury, some who voted to acquit because "cops are racist"
Overturn from SC is not enough. It really, really, REALLY isn't. This isn't mere bad policy like pandemic lockdown. You can shrink the government all you want, but if the judicial system is crooked, that society will never be free.
This isn’t mere bad policy like pandemic lockdown. You can shrink the government all you want, but if the judicial system is crooked, that society will never be free.
Our only choice is to frame Democrats for felonies.
The Justice System – like the rest of the government – has become weaponized against a certain demographic of the population. And it’s going to get worse from here. As libertarians, this should bother you greatly. That so many seem to be reveling in reveals what you really are.
The only choice is for Republican prosecutors and cops to frame Democrats for crimes real or imagined.
We either fight like Demona, or we go meekly into the gas chambers!
There is no third option.
That is not the correct response.
Playing by their rules means endorsing their rules as valid. This is what they want. The ultimate goal of the marxist is the total corruption of the principled. They don't care how low they have to go. Their goal is to destroy you - and make you compromise everything you ever claimed to stand for - and in doing so, make you like them. (And if you prefer it in religious terms, that is literally the one and only goal of Satan. Bring you down to his level, instead of His.)
That is the one thing you CANNOT allow. Which, incidentally, is why I have adamantly refused to join team MAGA. Donald wants to take the easy path. His "winning" is, in fact, losing. But he doesn't see it that way because of his myopia. Nor do most of his acolytes.
Meanwhile, Trump still walks free. He has his cronies running interference with his other crimes. He is caught lying his a off and no one cares. But they will eagerly arrest the president's son on gun charges while simultaneously worshipping the 2nd amendement.
Y'all chanted "Lock her up!" over and over and over and now you cry. Karma.
What are you blubbering on about? If you're going to troll, at least try not to sound like a helmet-wearing twelve-year-old tard flailing at the back of the short bus.
Good advice from Diarrha(lity)
It's sounding like there was one hold-out who was getting berated over and over, and that's why they had the transcripts re-read and asked for the jury instructions. They had to get their talking points together to bludgeon the one person who was holding out until they caved.
What gives you this crazy idea? It is not uncommon for juries to request testimony and clarifications to assist in their deliberations. There could easily have been several jurors who wanted to review information. It is worthwhile to remember that this is a long trial, and it is likely some of the most important testimony was very early, like that of David Pecker. I think you are fabricating this out of thin air.
The whole verdict is wrong.
Not only does Jacob Sullum oppose this case, but Michael Tracey, Glenn Greenwald, Mollie Z. Hemingway , and Jack Marshall oppose this case as well.
As does Johnathan Turley.
People who hate people will ignore anything that supports the hated.
You have an active imagination, rather than a thinking mind.
Pyrrhic victory.
I give you Mayor ( Marion) Barry. After serving half a dozen years or so as DC mayor, and as the “Obama-lite” of his 90s era, the feds nailed his ass for smoking crack, in a hotel room. All on videotape.
He did six months in the hoosegow. Booted and banned from office. Yet the locals and voters were so incensed, apparently, that they re-elected him to another six year term as their mayor. Hell, even the Washington Post eventually endorsed him.
Now comes Trump, walking in Barry’s shoes; identical twins born of separate mothers. Two men fin a fight against the state. The difference is, Trump’s fight is against a state of mind.
Not to worry. I like his chances. Nothing is more powerful than an idea-that would be MAGA- whose time has come.
Barry wasn't a Republican, though; he was a Democrat in a nearly 95% Democrat city. Half the people voting for him were crackheads themselves.
And he and most of the city was black. It always amazed me that people were surprised he won re-election.
"...Now comes Trump, walking in Barry’s shoes; identical twins born of separate mothers. Two men fin a fight against the state. The difference is, Trump’s fight is against a state of mind..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Is your argument that Marion Barry should not have been prosecuted?
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] in the USA lock-up anyone who threatens their [Na]tional So[zi]alist - Empire with De-Regulation?
- You have you answer.
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] take over the press?
- You have your answer.
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] cause hyper-inflation?
- You have your answer.
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] start Marshall law over the flu?
- You have your answer.
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] use that Marshall law as an excuse to cheat an election?
- You have your answer.
Will the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] keep pretending they aren't really [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s].
- You have your answer.
Projection
Reality.
-FTFY
Retardation: A Celebration -
Sometimes life comes at you fast. Sometimes you go full retard for New York.
Donald Trump, Jr. agrees with me.
https://www.mediamatters.org/rumble/donald-trump-jr-promises-gop-will-retaliate-conviction-donald-trump
I do not know if he ever watched Gargoyles, but he knows we must follow the example of Demona.
Which generation are you, Michael? You always seem to be referencing popular TV and movies. I hope no one ever tells you who is behind all that media...
Convicting ex-leaders or other senior politicians is not the sign of a banana republic. Western countries commonly do it. Thinking Trump specifically should be immune, as so many posters here evidently believe judging by their routinely hysterical defence of him, is closer to banana-ism. though not dispositive.
Immune from what? Creating an NDA?
You start from a guilty prospective before you even establish a guilt.
Immune from prosecution, dummy. And it's a general observation, not specific to the NY case.
Not establishing any guilt for most qualifies as immune from prosecution. dummier.
Sorry, but using “ the law” to weaken and/or imprison your political opponents is a staple of banana republics .
Like chanting "lock her up" or holding endless hearing with no evidence. The difference between banana republics and our country is that our country has courts of law and uses evidence. Trump was treated no differently than any other person committing fraud.
You ignore the glaring contrast between Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton being "treated no different." I'll go along with the State does prosecute out of thin-air but to pretend Trump isn't treated any different that Democrats is complete BS. This was definitely (D)ifferent.
The FBI had to negotiate with Hillary to get testimony instead of giving her a subpoena.
Jack Marshall disagrees with you.
https://ethicsalarms.com/2024/05/31/regarding-that-verdict-in-manhattan/
Agree. Western Democracies hold leaders to account and the records will show that to be true.
The USA is NOT a "Western Democracy" it is a Constitutional Republic.
The sickest thing about you leftards is thinking you can define the USA however you want to.
And I'm sure you know better than to think 'leaders' are being held to account for breaking the Supreme Law over them.
Yep,
And what funny is liberals like to throw around democracy without understanding 51% telling the 49% to fuck off is anti-minority.
How about when the minority gerrymanders the elective districts so they have majorities in 60% of the districts.
Doesn't change what I said.
Are not most Western Democracies republics in that they use representative forms of a democracy. Are you not just splitting hairs.
To TDS-addled lefty shitpiles, knowing what words mean = "splitting hairs".
"they use representative forms of a democracy" in very specific functions as defined by the US Constitution. You're pretending the tire (a minor part) defines the car (nation).
Agree. Western Democracies hold leaders to account and the records will show that to be true.
Depends on the party they belong to. Let's not pretend that Democrats are treated the same way here--in fact, your citation of Hillary Clinton actually proves it.
Most people knew how this banana republic trial would end. Unfortunately, there is not a lot that can be done by the average citizen. However, one effective way of fighting back is to boycott any travel to New York and any products made or sold by a New York-based company, whenever possible. I had planned to go see New York City in the next couple of years, as I have never been - I’ve now decided that I can comfortably live the rest of my life without ever setting foot in that leftist shithole.
Republican prosecutors and Republican cops need to know that their primary duty is to persecute Democrats, for Democrats are subhuman vermin who have no rights worthy of respect.
if they can not do this duty due to their love for the old rules, they must resign.
Win-win!
We all need to understand that this case is (D)ifferent, because (R)easons.
Nothing good will come from this.
(L)ol.
Pecker and AMI absolutely conspired with Trump illegally. This was a big in-kind donation to his campaign. The law is clear, you can't have media organizations operating as an arm of your campaign and not disclose it. Wake up folks. He lies to his supporters. he is lying now.
Ted Cruz in 2024, "Sen. Cruz said, “This is a dark day for America. This entire trial has been a sham, and it is nothing more than political persecution. The only reason they prosecuted Donald Trump is because Democrats are terrified that he will win reelection. This disgraceful decision is legally baseless and should be overturned promptly on appeal. Any judge with a modicum of integrity would recognize that this entire trial has been utterly fraudulent.”
Trump in 2016, ""I have no idea whether or not the cover story about Ted Cruz in this week's issue of the National Enquirer is true or not, but I had absolutely nothing to do with it, did not know about it, and have not, as yet, read it," Trump said in a statement posted on his Facebook page. "Likewise, I have nothing to do with the National Enquirer and unlike Lyin' Ted Cruz I do not surround myself with political hacks and henchman and then pretend total innocence. Ted Cruz's problem with the National Enquirer is his and his alone, and while they were right about O.J. Simpson, John Edwards, and many others, I certainly hope they are not right about Lyin' Ted Cruz."
“you can’t have media organizations operating as an arm of your campaign and not disclose it”
Geeeeeeeeeeez… WTF did you think the Biden Administration was busted for over and over and over again for? Does the Twitter and Facebook accounts mean nothing to you? Oh let me guess; That was (D)ifferent! /s
Yeah it was different. It was entirely a violation of the 1st Amendment (breaking the Supreme Law of the land).
The justice department is too busy going after Hunetr Biden's gun charges to deal with this.
Thanks for conceding the point with that deflection.
""The law is clear, you can’t have media organizations operating as an arm of your campaign and not disclose it. ""
Media organizations are clearly acting like an arm of the Biden campaign.
And FOX and a number of other orgs are helping Trump. Sorry, but Trump got busted. It's that simple. This is tedious. Like a child caught smoking in the bathroom who complains that the other kids get away with it. What do you tell them? Well, you got caught!
Sullum hates trump but seems to understand elements of this case you do not.
""And FOX and a number of other orgs are helping Trump""
But you are calling that out as wrong while deflecting the fact that others do it.
Actually I think I stand corrected.
It's not that you think it's wrong, you think it's illegal. Which mean you don't mind the law breaking when it's your team.
I was reacting to someone saying Biden colludes with the media. Does anyone here care that Trump colluded with the Enquirerer to plant fake news and catch and kill bad news that he still lies about? Have you all forgotten that his mantra in 2016 was "fake news"? Or that he had his minions chant "lock her up!"?
All charges are dubious on their own merit. Law professor Johnathan Turley explained it all.
This was a Stalinist style show trial.
The real crimes were perpetrated by those who made up the Russian collusion story which has been thoroughly debunked.
it's so cute that you think these jurors deliberated earnestly
Doesn't matter that their was a mismatch. Trump was tried on paying off a prostitute/pornstar to STFU politically. Which he obviously did. And the jury found him guilty of it.
That there are other things people hate him for is irrelevant. He was charged with X, the trial was about X, and he was found guilty of X.
All this Y stuff is a red herring by his fanbois to divert attention away from the fact that he was found guilty of X.
p.s. That much of FOXnews was aghast at the verdict just goes to show how lame FOXnews has become. They had months to be aghast at the trial itself, but chose not to clutch any pearls until the verdict. Pathetic.
p.p.s. There is the very real issue whether hush money should be illegal. I think it should be. Doesn't matter if it's the local councilman or the POTUS.
""He was charged with X, the trial was about X, and he was found guilty of X.""
That was Trump opinion of the Central Park 5.
""“”He was charged with X, the trial was about X, and he was found guilty of X.””"'
By the way, that's true of everyone who has had their conviction overturned.
It wasn't Trump that paid hush money to that porno queen but that nasty chewish lawyer who paid it. Who by the way embezzled money from Trump.
And....the dubiousness of the charge belittles actual justice.
Maybe Bill Clinton should be tried for paying off Paula Jones.
"...but that nasty chewish lawyer who paid it."
I love it when the mask drops.
"Doesn’t matter that their was a mismatch. Trump was tried on paying off a prostitute/pornstar to STFU politically. Which he obviously did. And the jury found him guilty of it..."
This is what the TDS-addled L party shits think, brandyshit being one.
This has to go down in history as the greatest travesty of justice ever. Not that I like Trump, which I don't but the fact that all these prosecutors are Obama appointees and even the judge in this trial is a corrupted leftist, means a fair trial or the lack of it would end this way.
Johnathan Turley has had plenty to say about this as well as many other in related practices.
This was not a fair trial. It was a Soviet style show trial resembling what Joe Stalin had done to his political enemies.
"Show me the man and I'll show you the crime."
So who's next? DeSantis? Abbott? Or maybe the leftists will go down the list of donors to Trump's campaign and persecute them.
Maybe you had a Trump bumper sticker on your car or maybe you flew a Trump flag in the yard. You're next.
The United States no longer exists. What now exists is a fractured and corrupted nation divided against itself open to anything that comes along.
The Biden administration has achieved their goal. They have effectively destroyed America.
""So who’s next? DeSantis? Abbott? "'
This is unique to Trump because Trump was a New Yorker at the time and subject to NY bullshit in a way those two cannot be.
This has to go down in history as the greatest travesty of justice ever.
Hysterical, much?
Let’s limit it to the US, in which case it’s a pretty accurate description. That “trial” has now shown that, like shithole 3rd-world states, the US judiciary can be used as a weapon against a political enemy.
Asshole.
Your cool with Trump planting fake news and lying about it while simultaneously yelling about everyone else's fake news? Nothing to see here folks. As long as Lyin' Ted Cruz falls in line and we can pay off his 5 mistresses everything is cool right?
Ah, I see we have a Beto bitch in the house.
He's a steaming pile of TDS-addled lefty shit; nothing he posts should be viewed as anything a sane person would write.
If Duranty were still alive, he'd be applauding the outcome and the NYT would front-page it.
A severe paranoia is a sad thing to witness.
I wonder what Ted Cruz's 5 mistresses think about this verdict?
I wonder why you're so obsessed with Ted Cruz, Beto bitch.
(This must be a Texas thing.)
There's no reason to suppose that the jury was 100% Democratic and intent on finding Trump guilty ab initio. That the verdict was relatively quick suggests that there were no lengthy arguments between jurors, which may be taken by some of you as evidence that the jury was 100% partisan, but can be no less evidence for the proposition that as far as the trial itself went, the prosecution made its case well and the defence didn't and any conservative jurors voted accordingly.
I think that the jurors - wrongly, though understandably - took into account Trump's failure to testify. When you have a ton of prosecution witnesses and almost no defence witnesses and so much of the case depended on intent, it's not unreasonable for a jury to want to hear from the man himself.
It's wrong, of course, because no defendant should be compelled to testify. And attorneys, generally speaking, advise their clients against it. In the specific case of Trump, he'd also be a walking perjury case.
However, if I am right that the jurors wrongly took note of Trump's failure to testify, he would not remotely be the first defendant to suffer from that. Juries are humans, not AIs.
As a famous politician once said, "The mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?"
But seriously, there were a pile of documents and testimony that proved Trump knew about the payments and was on board with Pecker and AMI cataching and killing and planting fake news. He used a convoluted method of reimbursing Cohen for a reason. Why not just cut Stormy a check directly from his own bank account if it was all good?
That the verdict was relatively quick suggests that there were no lengthy arguments between jurors, which may be taken by some of you as evidence that the jury was 100% partisan
LOL, the verdict wasn’t any less partisan than the Carroll case. In fact, I knew it was going to come back “guilty” the minute the charges were filed, and it wasn’t on the merits. It was over the fact that the Dems are trying to get Trump in jail because they’re terrified that things are so shitty under Biden, that they won’t have enough of a 2 am ballot dump in swing states to overcome his actual vote totals.
LOLOLOL, etc. As you don't know the makeup of the jury you can't be so sure.
As far as your drivel about 2am ballot dumps, all you need to do to avoid them is not pass laws - on pro-GOP partisan grounds - requiring that mail-in ballots should be counted only after in-person ballots.
"LOLOLOL, etc..."
The mark of, well, an adolescent imbecile.
As you don’t know the makeup of the jury you can’t be so sure.
Except for the fact that I was 100% correct.
As far as your drivel about 2am ballot dumps, all you need to do to avoid them is not pass laws – on pro-GOP partisan grounds – requiring that mail-in ballots should be counted only after in-person ballots.
Or, not pass any ballot law proposed by Democrats.
As you say, Trump is "a walking perjury case." Why anyone would want this dangerously inept clown to be President I just can't imagine. Biden won't kill the country, and the GOP can field someone worthy in '28.
As we say, one more TDS-addled shit-pile heard from. Fuck off and die.
The judge wouldn't let the defense bring in the FEC expert.
Judge: "Members of the jury, dookus tecum, e pluribus unum, likewise other gobbledygook, habeas corpus, corpus dualecticum, biedenensis disorientales, et cetera."
Jurors: "Say what? You know whut - never mind! Guilty ... whatever ..."
It's very simple. He directed his fixer to use campaign funds to pay off a potential embarassment. That's a crime. Why he didn't just pay her out of a slush fund I don't know. The amount was trivial for him.
Correct.
Bullshit.
No, it isn't.
He paid with personal funds.
This is a ridiculous headline, calling the clear, not-really-in-doubt violation of election law both “dubious” and a “narrative.”
Trump paid hush money to aid his campaign, a clear election law violation. He also clearly knew it was improper because he went pretty far to conceal it – having Cohen pay, repaying him with a gross-up for tax, suggesting it be paid in currency to avoid a trail, etc.
The philosophical question of whether election law should limit such contributions is irrelevant to whether this was a clear violation of law, a crime.
Then the NY DA, a Democrat, chose to prosecute the case. He likely did so in part because it’s good for his career, especially as compared with refusing to bring a likely winning felony charge against the most-despised Republican alive. But the jurors did their job – he was guilty and they found him guilty.
Reason should not be writing pieces acting like this was a corrupt case – it was not. It may be political, but Trump also broke the law in unambigous terms, as our peers on the jury well-understood.
Bad form, Reason, bad form.
Bad form, TDS-addled prick, bad form.
It's nice that you have a purpose in life, Scato, dutifully scurrying behind people you don't like to fling shit at them.
He paid hush money to keep it from his wife. Just as plausible.
The guilty verdict DOES NOT suggest the jurors believed a word of the testimony or the prosecutors argument. It suggests they decided to convict before even being seated on the jury.
Reportedly, Trump's lawyers were concerned with only one thing during jury selection: the prospective jurors' views of Donald Trump:
"The fourth day of jury selection played out similarly to the first three. Prosecutors focused their questions in the case on preparing the jurors to accept testimony from less-than-favorable witnesses, like Michael Cohen. Trump’s attorneys, meanwhile, were almost singularly focused on a single question: What did jurors think about Donald Trump?
The former president appeared less interested in the proceedings during much of the questioning by the district attorney’s office, sitting back in his chair and fiddling with papers. But when his lawyers began asking jurors what they thought of him, the former president was turned toward the jury box, paying full attention."
And they couldn't even get that right!