Most Justices Seem Skeptical of Charging Capitol Rioters With Obstructing an Official Proceeding
The Supreme Court's interpretation of the statute also could affect two charges against Donald Trump.

About 350 Donald Trump supporters who participated in the 2021 Capitol riot that interrupted congressional certification of Joe Biden's election victory have been charged with obstructing an "official proceeding." So has Trump himself: The August 2023 federal indictment that accuses him of illegally interfering in the 2020 presidential election says he obstructed or attempted to obstruct an official proceeding and conspired with others to do so. On Tuesday, the U.S. Supreme Court considered whether such charges are legally valid in this context, and most justices seemed inclined to think they are not.
The question posed by Fischer v. United States is whether 18 USC 1512(c), an offense created by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002, encompasses "acts unrelated to investigations and evidence." Section 1512(c)(1) applies to anyone who "corruptly…alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object's integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding." Section 1512(c)(2), the provision used in the Capitol riot cases, applies to anyone who "otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so." Both are felonies punishable by up to 20 years in prison.
Joseph Fischer, a former police officer who was charged with obstructing an official proceeding after participating in the Capitol riot, argues that the statute should be understood in light of the financial scandal that prompted it. Congress passed the Sarbanes-Oxley Act "in the wake of the large-scale destruction of Enron's financial documents," Fischer's lawyer, Jeffrey Green, noted during oral arguments. "The statute therefore prohibits the impairment of the integrity or availability of information and evidence to be used in a proceeding." Until the Capitol riot cases, he added, Section 512(c) "had never been used to prosecute anything other than evidence tampering."
There was "good reason" for that, Green argued: "This Court has said that otherwise, when used in a criminal statute, means to do similar conduct in a different way. The government would have you…disregard all that and instead convert [Section 512(c)(2)] from a catchall provision into a dragnet." Under that reading, he said, the second subsection renders the first superfluous. That reading is not only illogical, he argued; it is also unnecessary, because "there are a host of felony and misdemeanor crimes that cover the alleged conduct" of the Capitol riot defendants.
Although "many crimes occurred that day," U.S. Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar told the justices, "the fundamental wrong committed by many of the rioters, including [Fischer], was a deliberate attempt to stop the joint session of Congress from certifying the results of the election." Fischer "doesn't really argue that his actions fall outside the plain meaning of what it is to obstruct," she said. "His reading hinges on the word otherwise, but that word means in a different manner, not in the same manner." While Section 1512(c)(1) "covers specified acts that obstruct an official proceeding," she argued, Section 1512(c)(2) "covers all other acts that obstruct an official proceeding in a different manner."
Justice Neil Gorsuch noted the potentially sweeping impact of Prelogar's interpretation. "Would a sit-in that disrupts a trial or access to a federal courthouse qualify?" he asked her. "Would a heckler in today's audience qualify or [a heckler] at the State of the Union address? Would pulling a fire alarm before a vote qualify for 20 years in federal prison?"
That last hypothetical sounded like an allusion to Rep. Jamaal Bowman (D–N.Y.), who was censured last year for pulling a fire alarm at the Capitol prior to a vote on a spending bill. Bowman, who said he did that by accident, nevertheless pleaded guilty to one count of falsely activating a fire alarm. His sentence, which included a $1,000 fine and a letter of apology to U.S. Capitol Police Chief J. Thomas Manger, fell far short of the stiff prison term that could apply to obstruction of an official proceeding.
Prelogar responded that Gorsuch's examples might not fit the elements of that crime, which requires "meaningful interference." If "you have some minor disruption or delay or some minimal outburst," she said, "we don't think it falls within" the statute.
Suppose a heckler's outburst forced a court to "reconvene" after order was restored, "the protest outside of a courthouse makes it inaccessible for a period of time," or a vote "has to be rescheduled" because of a false fire alarm, Gorsuch said. "Are those all federal felonies subject to 20 years in prison?"
Not necessarily, Prelogar replied, because "we'd also have to be able to prove that they acted corruptly." She said that would require showing not just that a defendant meant to disrupt a proceeding but that he "had corrupt intent in acting in that way." When it comes to "a peaceful protest, even one that's quite disruptive," she said, "it's not clear to me that the government would be able to show that each of those protesters have corrupt intent." But "if they intend to obstruct and we're able to show that they knew that was wrongful conduct," she added, "then yes, that's a 1512(c)(2) offense."
Justice Samuel Alito, who said the Court needs to understand "the outer reaches of this statute under your interpretation," elaborated on one of Gorsuch's hypotheticals. Suppose that during oral arguments in this very case, he said, "five people get up, one after the other, and they shout either 'Keep the January 6th insurrectionists in jail!' or 'Free the January 6th patriots!' And as a result of this, our police officers have to remove them forcibly from the courtroom. And let's say we have to delay the proceeding for five minutes." In those circumstances, Alito said, "an advocate might lose his or her train of thought and not provide the best argument." Since such a protest arguably "impedes" or "influences" an official proceeding, he wondered, would it fall under Section 1512(c)(2)?
Even if you "look at some of the broader dictionary definitions and adopt a broader understanding" of the requisite conduct, Prelogar said, "there would be the backstop of needing to prove corrupt intent." For example, she said, if someone mistakenly thought he was exercising his right to freedom of speech by shouting during a judicial proceeding, he would not have the necessary "consciousness of wrongdoing." By implication, however, he could be guilty of this felony if he understood that he had no right to behave that way.
Justice Amy Coney Barrett also suggested she was "concerned about the breadth of the government's reading." She wondered whether "it's plausible that Congress would have written a statute" broadly enough to encompass the courtroom disruption that Alito described.
Barrett posed another hypothetical: "What if on January 6th the Capitol itself had not been breached. The protest is going on outside the Capitol: 'Stop the steal, stop the steal.' Police are…saying, 'disperse, disperse,' [because] they're too close to the Capitol. Their goal is to impair, impede, stop the proceeding, stop the counting of votes. Does that violate the statute in your view, under this 'impede' language?" Assuming that "the same thing happened, where Congress had to go into recess and couldn't hold the joint session…because there was such a security risk," Prelogar said, "I think that that probably would be chargeable if we had the intent evidence."
Since this law was enacted, Justice Clarence Thomas noted, "there have been many violent protests that have interfered with proceedings." He wondered whether the government has "applied this provision to other protests."
The Justice Department has "enforced it in a variety of prosecutions that don't focus on evidence tampering," Prelogar said. She mentioned a defendant who "tipped off the subject of an investigation to the grand jury's hearings" and "another case where someone [revealed] the identity of an undercover law enforcement officer." But she could not cite any prior cases involving protests that disrupted an official proceeding. "I can't give you an example of enforcing [this law] in a situation where people have violently stormed a building in order to prevent an official proceeding," she said, because "I'm not aware of that circumstance ever happening prior to January 6th."
Chief Justice John Roberts, who wrote the Court's unanimous opinion in Bissonnette v. LePage Bakeries, which it issued on Friday, suggested that decision favors Fischer's reading of Section 1512(c), which features "specific terms" followed by "a more general catchall." In that situation, he said, the statutory construction principle ejusdem generis says "the general phrase is controlled and defined by reference to the terms that precede it. The 'otherwise' phrase is more general, and the terms that precede it are 'alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record and document.' And applying the doctrine as [it] was set forth in [Bissonnette], the specific terms 'alters, destroy, and mutilate' carry forward into (2), and the terms 'record, document, or other object' carry forward into (2) as well. And it seems to me that they, as I said, sort of control and define the more general term."
Justice Brett Kavanaugh said the "key word" in dispute is otherwise. He agreed with Roberts that the structure of Section 1512(c) "would seem to trigger ejusdem generis" as a guide to understanding that term. He suggested "it would be odd to have such a broad provision tucked in and connected by the word otherwise."
Kavanaugh also seemed sympathetic to Green's argument that the government has plenty of options for charging the January 6 defendants without relying on this statute. "There are six other counts in the indictment here, which include civil disorder, physical contact with the victim, assault, entering and remaining in a restricted building, disorderly and disruptive conduct, disorderly conduct in the Capitol building," he said while questioning Prelogar. "Why aren't those six counts good enough just from the Justice Department's perspective given that they don't have any of the hurdles?"
The other charges "don't fully reflect the culpability of [Fischer's] conduct on January 6th," Prelogar replied. "Those counts do not require that [Fischer] acted corruptly to obstruct an official proceeding….I think it is entirely appropriate for the government to seek to hold [Fischer] accountable for that conduct with that intent."
Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson wondered if the government's understanding of Section 1512(c)(2) is consistent with the rest of the statute. "You said…the nexus between
(1) and (2) is…the obstruction of an official proceeding," she told Prelogar. "I guess what I'm concerned about is how you then account for the rest of 1512, where 'official proceeding' comes up over and over again." If "particular acts that one could view as obstructing the official proceeding, like killing or threatening or intimidating witnesses," are covered by Section 1512(c)(2), she said, "I don't understand what happens to the rest of those provisions."
Jackson also seemed to agree with Green that the historical context of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act is relevant. "It was in the wake of Enron," she noted. "There was document destruction, and there was nothing as far as I can tell in the enactment history as it was recorded that suggests that Congress was thinking about obstruction more generally. They had this particular problem, and it was destruction of information that…could have otherwise been used in an official proceeding." Jackson said she was "struggling with leaping from what's happening in (1) in the context in which it was actually enacted to all of obstruction in any form."
While Gorsuch et al. seemed troubled by Prelogar's broad reading of the law, Justice Sonia Sotomayor objected to Green's narrow interpretation. Suppose a theater posts a sign warning that "you'll be kicked out of the theater if you 'photograph or record the actors or otherwise disrupt the performance,'" she said. "If you start yelling, I think no one would question that you can be expected to be kicked out under this policy, even though yelling has nothing to do with photograph[ing] or recording."
Justice Elena Kagan suggested "there are plenty of ways" in which Congress could have made it clear that the law applies "only in the sphere of evidence spoliation." But the statute as written, she said, "doesn't do that."
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Sarbanes Oxley? Really? I had no idea until now.
"I can't give you an example of enforcing [this law] in a situation where people have violently stormed a building in order to prevent an official proceeding," she said, because "I'm not aware of that circumstance ever happening prior to January 6th."
Actually, there is one such example.
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/07/20/whats-happening-in-portland/
Sarcastr0 was whining about uNmArKeD vAnS!
Ummm, it’s happened a lot more than that. In DC. Congress, the White House, and SCOTUS itself
Indeed.
In the White House example, Secret Service agents were injured.
I think the key phrase here is "...in order to prevent an official proceeding".
I have a suspicion that official proceedings occurred in the Mark O. Hatfield Courthouse in Portland.
Did the violence occur while court was in session?
What if a congressman pulled a fire alarm to obstruct Congress?
That’s cool, right?
Only if said congressman is a democrat.
If he's republican pulling a fire alarm, then he's an insurrectionist and needs to be shot repeatedly.
It is (D)ifferent. 🙂
It occurred over several days.
But I think that is the distinction here.
The Jan. 6 rioters attempted to obstruct the official proceeding while Congress was in session.
Again as I note below, I don't think the law is being properly applied here.
But I am trying to faithfully understand the argument that the government's side is making. They are not saying (at least it seems to me) that any violence against any government building is "obstructing an official proceeding", only if it is occurring while there is some official meeting in session.
Does “riot “ now mean people who walked within velvet ropes?
But I think that is the distinction here.
I bet you do.
The Jan. 6 rioters attempted to obstruct the official proceeding while Congress was in session.
Son of a gun. I bet you want them all treated exactly like the anti-Kavanagh protesters who burst into the Senate to interrupt the confirmation of a supreme court justice. Or is that not oBsTrUcTinG tHe oFfiCiaL proCeEdiNG enough for you?
Over 200 protesters arrested during Kavanaugh hearings
All charges dropped and coffee in the speakers office, right?
Don't forget all the pro-Palestinian protesters who have disrupted official business.
So if they had 'rioted' before Congress was in session and prevented Congress from starting their session - that would be ok?
"'only if it is occurring while there is some official meeting in session.""
Like a confirmation hearing for Kavanagh?
They definitely "obstructed" state level proceedings in Wisconsin in 2011 over act 10.
Gorsuch brought up Bowman fire alarm.
But the 2017 inauguration riots to try to stop Trumps swearing in.
Protestors under Kavanagh.
2 Free Palestine protests just this year where Capitol officers were assaulted.
Based on what I've read so far, it does seem like the defense has the better argument here. The law in question was about stopping people from shredding documents, not about stopping people from storming the Capitol. Adding this one on just seems like charge stacking, and that is a practice that is very questionable to say the least.
“Storming “ lol
Apparently slowly wandering around largely confused = ‘storming’ now.
Is this where you lie and pretend you haven't supported the use of these charges the last 3 years?
Or you could be a decent human being and say "you know, for once I agree with you."
Even ML has said (very occasionally) that he agrees with me on opposition to the death penalty. And he is the one who claims that I am a literal Nazi.
Even R Mac has said (very occasionally) that he agrees with me that the current immigration system is completely fucked up and in need of reform. And he is the one who constantly claims I'm a liar and a pedophile.
When are you going to start acting like a decent human being?
When are you going to start acting like a decent human being?
When monkeys fly out of your ass. He’s scum. His kind doesn't have mothers. They reproduce by fission.
If you and SPB put him on mute and stopped responding to his lies, he’d only have three or four girlfriends to gossip with.
I noticed jeff can't answer the question. So how about you. Is this where you pretend you didn't support it?
sarcasmic 2 years ago
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Mute User
Charges of trespassing, vandalism and interfering with government business are sufficient. No need to add political crimes to the list.
Or have facts changed for you two.
Odd asking someone else to be decent when jeff supported their murder and you supported the charging.
Why should I even attempt to ratify your lie?
Why not just say "for once I agree with you"? Do you think if you said that, something bad would happen to you?
What lie jeff. Why do you always pretend you didn't say this?
chemjeff radical individualist 3 years ago
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Mute User
What is there to talk about?
.
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren’t supposed to be.
Why do you pretend you don't support Babbitt being shot?
Why are you pretending you haven't supported this case and all the other Trump prosecutions for years?
Why are you so dishonest?
If you admitted you were wrong in your prior stances, maybe I would. But you won't. You'll just lie about your prior stances.
Ironically it is me, ML, RMac who have said this for years along with our 'garbage websites that consistently attacked for pointed out the very facts in these articles.
So you are not being sincere. You just have to try to force your mask back on.
Do you understand that Babbitt being shot is NOT an example of capital punishment?
Why are you pretending you haven’t supported this case and all the other Trump prosecutions for years?
Before yesterday I have never said one word about how this particular statute was applied. Why do you want to pretend otherwise?
Moreover, why do you lump in "all the other Trump prosecutions" into this discussion? Do you seriously think that if one objects to the application of this particular statute, one must also object to any prosecution of Trump?
When will you figure out that he’s Lucy holding the football and you’re Charlie Brown?
You’re trying to have a good faith argument with someone who will always lie, twist your words, and then lie some more. All the while accusing you of what he’s doing while he’s doing it.
Why do you waste your time with him? When you reply to his lies you’re nothing but a monkey dancing for the amusement of him and his girlfriends.
Is that your goal? Because that’s the only thing you’ll ever accomplish by arguing with him.
You’re a pathetic dancing monkey. It's sad to watch.
If you admitted you were wrong in your prior stances, maybe I would.
Maybe you should try to admit you are wrong in some of the blather that you post. Why don't you try that?
Ironically it is me, ML, RMac who have said this for years along with our ‘garbage websites that consistently attacked for pointed out the very facts in these articles.
Why don't you cite one of your garbage sources which mentioned the problems with the application of this law before it became prominently in the news due to this SCOTUS case.
Another 4 comment reply. Hitting some truths i see.
Hey Drunky, still being a leftist shill I see.
Oh cute. He replied. Probably threatened to bookmark the comment or some nonsense. Pathetic.
Nope. Just the usual exposing of your hypocrisy. Lol.
I think sarc gets off on hypocrisy.
Sarc just wants a friend but he’s trolled here way too much, so now he’s scraping the bottom of the barrel with the pedo and Lying Jeffy.
Next up, Sqrlsy and Misek.
No one loves, or even likes Sarc. This is why he won’t go away. He’s clearly in love with you and Jesse. Which is part of one of his many alcoholic delusions.
"Even ML has said (very occasionally) that he agrees with me on opposition to the death penalty. And he is the one who claims that I am a literal Nazi."
I'm reasonably sure your opposition to the death penalty doesn't extend to the political other. The Kulaks were always considered a more dangerous threat than the lumpenproles.
I mean jeff did say J6 trespassers could be shot. So I dont think he is against the death penalty.
I am opposed to the death penalty in principle. So it extends to everyone.
Just not democrat henchmen executing people at will.
"Even R Mac has said (very occasionally) that he agrees with me that the current immigration system is completely fucked up and in need of reform. And he is the one who constantly claims I’m a liar and a pedophile."
I think most of what the federal government does is completely fucked up and in need of abolishment. You're a statist that likes to cherry pick real libertarians comments to fit whatever dishonest point you're trying to make. I constantly claim you're a liar because you constantly lie. I occasionally allude to you being a pedophile because you defend pedophiles, but I don't do that constantly.
"When are you going to start acting like a decent human being?"
Near as I can remember this is the first time you've acknowledged my presence on this board (the selective muting by you and sarc is tiresome) since I strongly reacted after you made the disgusting claim that I don't care about rape victims, when I've volunteered time to help them.
Don't use me as an example of reasonable response to attack Jesse. You're pure filth in every way.
I just find his entire post to be dishonest. After a week of dismissing the same logic Sullum actually portrayed here, dismissing it as garbage and right wing opinion, he settles on it being sensible because he can no longer defend it. It is the same dishonesty he has on every topic. Censorship is good despite garbage sites pointing it out, information becomes insurmountable then jeff tries to pretend he is now against it. Same with lab leak. In a year it will be him reluctantly realizing the pedophilia and trans butchering was wrong. He doesn’t actually believe these things, he just realizes he can’t place a liberbertarian veneer over his leftist leanings. At least not here.
He is essentially trying to revert back to his false claims as a moderate libertarian after years of the mask slipping.
After a week of dismissing the same logic Sullum actually portrayed here, dismissing it as garbage and right wing opinion, he settles on it being sensible because he can no longer defend it.
WTF are you talking about? This is entirely in your head. This is the first time this issue of the application of this particular statute has been discussed here IIRC. I don't even know what is the Sullum argument that you think I objected to in the past. But even still, don't you think that it is possible for a person to disagree with one of his arguments but agree with another one of his arguments, on their merits, without making that person a hypocrite or otherwise dishonest?
You’re not just ‘a person’. You ARE a serially dishonest hypocrite. So why should any of us give you the benefit of the doubt? You have earned every nasty remark, every accusation, and every bit of derision you’ve received here. Every goddamned bit.
If you had an iota of shame or decency within you, you would beg our forgiveness , leave, and never come back.
You really do have a childish, simplistic, black/white view of the world, don't you? Take this example:
Censorship is good despite garbage sites pointing it out, information becomes insurmountable then jeff tries to pretend he is now against it.
You are lumping in all sorts of different issues together and trying to pretend that they are all the same. Censorship is sometimes good and sometimes bad, and then there are gray areas which makes it hard to determine whether it is good or bad. Censorship by the government is almost always bad (but not 100% of the time - think military secrets during wartime, for example), censorship by private individuals CAN be good or bad depending on the context, as in THIS case the censorship is an extension of the private individual's property rights. And there is a fuzzy line between what constitutes "censorship by proxy" or "government-industry cooperation". This complex issue cannot really be reduced to simple bumper-sticker black/white statements, and moreover, having one position on one type of censorship, but a different position on a different type of censorship, is not dishonest or "changing positions" or somesuch, it is called having a nuanced and intellectual approach to the issue. As opposed to your ridiculously reductionist black/white viewpoint.
You waste a lot of words to basically say nothing in a word salad attempt to justify Biden’s suppression of free speech. Which we all k ow you support.
Hint: you ar win the wrong place for that crap. Take it on down the way to Salon, WaPo, etc.. Where you can hang with all the other obese soyboy leftists.
Same with lab leak.
If you were to go back 3,000 years in time and ask a common person, "does the sun revolve around the earth, or does the earth revolve around the sun?", and that person responded "Clearly, the earth revolves around the sun, because the Sun god told me so in a dream last night!", would you accept this evidence for the claim that the earth revolves around the sun? Of course not. Does it mean that the earth really doesn't revolve around the sun? Of course not. It just means that the evidence provided does not offer a sufficient proof for the claim.
And then later, if you returned to the modern day with the 3,000-year-old man, and this man discovered that yes, indeed, the whole world believes that the earth revolves around the sun, and the 3,000-year-old man said "see? see? I was right, you were wrong to doubt me, CLEARLY the way to understand the world is to listen to the Sun god in dreams", would you then accept his claim that the way to understand the natural world is via dreams from the Sun god? Yes or no?
The problem wasn't who was right and who was wrong. The problem was how people with a different opinion were treated.
Ridiculed, called names, speech was blocked. All for having a plausible opinion that was against the party narrative.
In a year it will be him reluctantly realizing the pedophilia and trans butchering was wrong.
I have never supported pedophilia, that is a grossly offensive slander. And even in the report that you cite from the UK, it does not say that gender reassignment surgery should be BANNED, only that it ought to be used very carefully and selectively and with the risks fully known to all and not until after a comprehensive evaluation of the child has been made. That is what I have been arguing all along. It is you and your team that wants to force parents to raise their children and to treat their children according to how YOU want them to. That is not libertarian nor will it ever be.
You absolutely advocate for pedophiles. You’ve done it here. Especially when you openly supported allowing pedophiles and other sexual predators from foreign countries unlimited access to the US.
So just stop with you lies.
They’re referring to that time you argued that known pedofiles should be granted asylum.
Yep. He likes to memory hole that. And I don’t like to let him forget it.
4 comments trying to excuse his behaviors and pretending his mask never slipped. Lol.
New record. Must have been too accurate in my assessment.
Why don't you try addressing *substantively* any of the comments that I made above?
You’re a long winded liar. And you threadshit endlessly. Its excruciating.
So this is how you’re treated. You’ve earned it.
"Based on what I’ve read so far, it does seem like the defense has the better argument here."
Probably because as a DNC politruk it's your argument too, and you don't give a flying fuck about justice.
In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality was tacitly denied by their philosophy.
So ML, if, even when I agree with you, you are going to attack and criticize me, why should I even bother responding to you at all?
why should I even bother responding to you at all?
Now apply that to Jesse.
Well, you certainly hide from me like a little bitch.
why should I even bother responding to you at all?
Why respond to anyone?
Why not crawl back to your leftist feverswamp and never let any of us have the benefit of your 'wisdom' ever again?
That'd show us.
We’re all he’s got. He certainly doesn’t have friends. I also suspect his family avoids him like a pile of burning dogshit.
Or maybe the intent was to ensure a legitimate election before it was enacted. It doesn't surprise me one bit how quickly the narrative changed from ensuring election integrity to prosecuting anyone who doubted it's results. The last thing the left wants is anyone questioning that election.
Because face it. There has been no explanation why China IPS were logged into voting machines. There has been no legitimate re-votes where Executive Fiat cheated election laws. There has been no reason explained why Trumps votes were deleted on live TV and there has been no substantial explanation why In-Person ran in complete contrast to mail-in votes. Frankly mail-in voting should be erased since it's very premise of legitimacy has been violated.
Although Supreme Court Justices are expected to ask such questions and interpret the law within a gnat's whisker, the rest of us know exactly why the Department of Justice wants to stretch an evidence-tampering law to cover something it was never intended to cover: politics! This is another battle front in the escalating culture wars seeking to defend "Our Democracy" from attack by "Trump MAGA" cultural warriors. There are thousands upon thousands of such vaguely worded Federal laws on the books, any one of which could be used to charge anyone in America at random or because they angered some democratic socialist official somewhere. It's about time the Supreme Court finally grew a pair and put a stop to it.
Tom Cotton said citizens should remove Jan 6 protestors: “take matters into their own hands” and forcibly remove the demonstrators from the roads.
...
Cotton posted a video on X on Tuesday showing people dragging protesters off the roads by their legs and their jacket hoods, tossing them to the curb to let cars through.
....
“How it should be done,” the senator wrote in the post.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/16/senator-encourages-drivers-to-drag-gaza-cease-fire-protestors-from-roads.html
And then they wonder why we think they are authoritarians. In this case, it is the authoritarianism of "mob rule" and vigilantism.
"Oh but what about the demonstrators blocking traffic? Aren't they already engaging in 'mob rule'? Huh????"
Well yes, and that is illegal. The proper response, especially for the team which claims to favor 'rule of law', is for the police to arrest and prosecute the demonstrators. The proper response is NOT to commit more illegal acts in the NAME of 'justice'.
Unruly mobs are “authoritarian” (lol, wtf), but illegal spying on political campaigns, mass censorship on social media, political prosecutions, selective prosecution, anti-speech laws, removing opponents from a ballot, charging political opponents with novel charges, astroturfing, creating fraudulent evidence for congressional committees, illegally writing new election rules, Hollywood directed kangaroo courts, etc… are all sAviNg dEmoCrACy.
That's probably the stupidest take you two Nazi clowns have ever tried to push here.
probably the stupidest take you two Nazi clowns have ever tried to push here.
They'll try to beat it in 3, 2, 1...
It just does t make any sense. Kamala promoted a bail fund for unruly mobs. Democrats like Tides Foundation have legal funds set up for unruly mobs.
Jeff is only concerned with one mob.
Jeffy is lying leftist trash.
Accurate.
Thank you. And I do enjoy the pain you cause him. He deserves that and so much worse.
Here is the thing. Because the protesters are preventing people from going to their destinations they are guilty of a form of kidnapping and the people who are being detained because of the protesters would well be within their rights to physically resist this detention. Of course each and every person detained can also file charges of unlawful detention against the protesters and demand the police arrest them.
Doesn't everyone have the right to act to stop illegal activities?
I think you still do in Arkansas.
Not so in NYC.
""The proper response is NOT to commit more illegal acts in the NAME of ‘justice’.""
What's the illegal act?
“The proper response, especially for the team which claims to favor ‘rule of law’, is for the police to arrest and prosecute” … the governors who used executive fiat to change election laws and all the other shady and illegal acts that went into that election.
There. Fixed that for you.
Heaven-forbid actual election integrity be sustained.
"citizens should remove Jan 6 protestors"
With what? A fucking time machine? Your FBI-directed incitement op was four years ago, shill.
Maybe he is talking about next January 6 protesters who will claim that Trump stole the election.
My bet, right now, is 9-0, for the defense, based on ejusdem generis, maybe throwing in legislative history, with 2 or 3 Dems opining to limit the decision, while 4-5 Reps opining to shutdown LawFare prosecutions in general. CJ Roberts likes his fairly narrow 9-0 decisions on contentious subjects, and I think it’s close enough here to pull off. The government isn’t going to win this one, with probably 5 votes already for the defense. But if he can’t bring some of the Dems on board, I think that he faces a strong anti-LawFare decision by the conservative majority, that could significantly help Trump (I don’t think that Roberts is anti-Trump, per se, but rather is desirous of maintaining the Court’s reputation by not overly supporting Trump).
This expansion and novel interpretation of these has already been used for 350 J6 protestors as the only felony in their charging documents. They have been sentenced to an average of 22 months. The D.C. attorney leading these efforts under Biden bragged his goal was to make conservatives scared to come to D.C. The damage is done.
It’s going to end very badly for these Marxists. I look forward to that.
And has said that if he loses in the Supreme Court (as I expect he will, after oral arguments) will move to have those who try to get a sentence reduction this way, to have them serve their sentences consecutively, instead of concurrently. Asshole.
Not only federal, but also state, and probably many foreign statutes are full of cases where the legislative history was of them wanting to address a particular problem, but then the language they adopt is sweeping, full of vague language, "including but not limited to", and stuff like that there. You can't always get away with that in patent descriptions or claims, but in legislation it's like my rugby captain said, "You do it until the referee makes you stop."
Here is the relevant part of the statute (18 U.S.C. § 1512(c)(2)):
(c) Whoever corruptly—
(1) alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or
(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
The ejusdem generis comes in with (2). The prosecutors are treating (2) as standalone. But ejusdem generis requires that it be limited by (1) to apply to similar situations, which all involve documents (not surprising since it was part of the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002 )
From the Wikipedia article on the Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002
“The Sarbanes–Oxley Act of 2002 is a United States federal law that mandates certain practices in financial record keeping and reporting for corporations. The act, (Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 107–204 (text) (PDF), 116 Stat. 745, enacted July 30, 2002), also known as the "Public Company Accounting Reform and Investor Protection Act" (in the Senate) and "Corporate and Auditing Accountability, Responsibility, and Transparency Act" (in the House) and more commonly called Sarbanes–Oxley, SOX or Sarbox, contains eleven sections that place requirements on all U.S. public company boards of directors and management and public accounting firms. A number of provisions of the Act also apply to privately held companies, such as the willful destruction of evidence to impede a federal investigation.”
“The law was enacted as a reaction to a number of major corporate and accounting scandals, including Enron and WorldCom. The sections of the bill cover responsibilities of a public corporation's board of directors, add criminal penalties for certain misconduct, and require the Securities and Exchange Commission to create regulations to define how public corporations are to comply with the law.[1]”
The statute, as a part of Sarbanes–Oxley, was enacted to prevent financial crimes. Not to incarcerate J6 protesters who (mostly peacefully) visited the Capital on 1/6/2021. That’s where Legislative History comes in - the statute was directed to preventing financial crimes, and no mention whatsoever is made of preventing political crimes.
"""There are six other counts in the indictment here, which include civil disorder, physical contact with the victim, assault, entering and remaining in a restricted building, disorderly and disruptive conduct, disorderly conduct in the Capitol building," he said while questioning Prelogar. "Why aren't those six counts good enough just from the Justice Department's perspective given that they don't have any of the hurdles?"""
Those counts are not easy to prove without the hassles of actually proving something.
Obstruction is a vague term that the government can bend to what it wants.
If I'm a governemnt official going to an official meeting, would blocking the street count as obstruction?