Who Killed Elijah McClain? Mixed Verdicts Reflect a Cascade of Ultimately Fatal Mistakes.
Juries convicted two paramedics and one police officer of criminally negligent homicide but acquitted two other cops.

On a Saturday night in August 2019, Elijah McClain, a 23-year-old massage therapist, was accosted by police officers while walking home from an Aurora, Colorado, convenience store where he had bought three cans of iced tea. The cops were responding to a "suspicious person" call. But McClain, who had committed no crime, did not understand why he was being detained, and his objections were met with swiftly escalating force, culminating in an injection of ketamine that left him unconscious. He never woke up.
That horrifying incident attracted national attention after George Floyd's May 2020 death in the custody of Minneapolis police officers set off widespread protests against police brutality. There were notable parallels: In both cases, a black man complained that he could not breathe after he was tackled and pinned to the ground by white police officers. Both incidents featured police indifference to those complaints, a failure to render medical aid, the questionable use of "pain compliance" techniques, and the invocation of "excited delirium" as a justification for the use of force. And both resulted in criminal charges, which in McClain's case have now been resolved by a mixture of verdicts that reflect a cascade of ultimately fatal mistakes.
Last Friday, a jury found Peter Cichuniec and Jeremy Cooper, the two paramedics who injected McClain with an overdose of ketamine, guilty of criminally negligent homicide, a felony punishable by one to three years in prison. Cichuniec, an Aurora Fire Rescue lieutenant who approved the injection, was also convicted of second-degree assault, a felony punishable by two to six years in prison. The paramedics' trial was the third in connection with McClain's death. In October, Aurora police officer Randy Roedema was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and third-degree assault, a misdemeanor punishable by up to 18 months in jail. Former Aurora police officer Jason Rosenblatt, who was tried together with Roedema, was acquitted of all charges. So was Nathan Woodyard, an officer who was tried separately in late October and early November.
After McClain's death, local prosecutors declined to file charges. Criticism of that decision, which was amplified after Floyd was killed in similar circumstances, prompted Colorado Gov. Jared Polis to order a new investigation by Attorney General Phil Weiser. That probe led to a September 2021 indictment, which listed a total of 32 charges, including manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, and assault. While the officers' lawyers complained that the charges were the result of political pressure, the cursory nature of the first investigation suggests the real scandal was the initial determination that no charges were warranted.
When Woodyard approached McClain that night, he was responding to a 911 call from a teenager who thought McClain "look[ed] sketchy" because he was wearing a ski mask and making "all these kinds of signs" with his hands. The caller added that "he might be a good person or a bad person." He said no one was in danger and he had not seen any weapons.
Woodyard ordered McClain to stop, but McClain was listening to music through earbuds and apparently did not hear the command. "Prosecutors said Woodyard grabbed McClain within eight seconds of getting out of his patrol car without introducing himself or explaining why he wanted to talk to McClain," USA Today reported after the officer's acquittal. "McClain, seemingly caught off guard, tried to keep walking. The encounter quickly escalated."
At this point, an independent panel of investigators appointed by the Aurora City Council concluded in a February 2021 report, Woodyard did not have grounds to reasonably suspect that McClain was involved in criminal activity, which the Supreme Court has said the Fourth Amendment requires for an investigatory stop. McClain, who was holding his cellphone in one hand and a bag with the cans of iced tea in the other, "had no observable weapon and had not displayed violent or threatening behavior," the panel noted. "No crime had been reported. The officers later said they stopped Mr. McClain because he was overdressed and wearing a mask, in an area one officer referred to as 'high crime,' and a caller had reported his unusual behavior."
In addition to the ski mask, McClain was wearing sweat pants, a jacket, and a knit cap, which might have seemed strange on a summer night but is understandable in light of his anemia, a symptom of which is cold extremities. Aside from his clothing and the "unusual behavior" reported by the 911 caller, Woodyard had no reason to suspect that McClain was doing anything illegal. The decision to turn what could have been a consensual encounter into an investigatory stop "had ramifications for the rest of the encounter," the panel's report noted.
Woodyard was joined by Roedema and Rosenblatt, who were dispatched as backup for the "suspicious person" report. Woodyard decided to frisk McClain, a step that is legally justified only if police reasonably suspect the subject is armed. Yet the 911 caller had not reported any weapons (a point that was noted in the police dispatcher's message), McClain was plainly holding nothing but his phone and the bag from the convenience store, and Woodyard himself later said he "felt safe making an approach" because McClain "didn't have any weapons."
McClain, whose walk home had been forcibly interrupted for no good reason, was understandably dismayed. He repeatedly asked the cops to leave him alone and let him continue on his way. "I have a right to walk to where I'm going," he told Woodyard. "I have a right to stop you because you're being suspicious," Woodyard replied as he grabbed McClain's arm.
Less than a minute into the encounter, the officers decided they should move McClain to a grassy area in case they needed to "take him down." At this point, the independent panel noted, Woodyard's unjustified investigatory stop became an arrest, which is constitutionally permissible only when police have probable cause to believe someone has committed a crime. That is a higher standard than reasonable suspicion, a test the cops had already failed to meet.
While the cops were trying, without any legal justification, to force McClain onto the grassy area, Roedema told Rosenblatt, "He grabbed your gun, dude." According to Woodyard, that exclamation "changed the situation." Once he heard Roedema's warning, Woodyard said, he decided to "take [McClain] down to the ground as hard as I could." While tackling McClain, Woodyard twice attempted a "carotid control hold," which aims to induce unconsciousness by applying pressure on both sides of the neck to cut off blood flow to the brain. The second, more successful attempt happened when McClain was restrained on the ground.
After McClain came to, he repeatedly vomited. He was handcuffed and still wearing his ski mask at this point, and an autopsy found that he had aspirated some of the vomit. That, along with the downward pressure the officers were exerting, helps explain why he complained that he was having trouble breathing.
At his trial, Woodyard said he used the carotid control in self-defense. "I intend to take my power back," McClain had said. Woodyard said that remark, combined with Roedema's warning about Rosenblatt's gun, made him fear for his life. But as the prosecutors noted, Rosenblatt later said he had not felt anyone touch his gun, and body camera footage showed no such movement by McClain.
McClain was five feet, seven inches tall and weighed about 140 pounds. Yet the officers claimed he exhibited "crazy," "incredible," "superhuman" strength, which they attributed to "excited delirium" caused by "whatever he's on." Toxicological tests found that marijuana was the only psychoactive substance that McClain had consumed. In any case, "excited delirium" is a scientifically dubious concept that is not recognized by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, or the World Health Organization. The label serves mainly to justify what would otherwise seem like excessive force.
Forensic pathologist Roger A. Mitchell Jr., who testified during Roedema and Rosenblatt's trial, made it clear that he does not view "excited delirium" as a valid diagnosis. But even if it were, he said, McClain's behavior was not consistent with the way the condition is usually described. "He's communicating with law enforcement," Mitchell said. "He's clear on what's going on with him. He's pleading his case." Mitchell also noted that McClain's exclamations showed he was responding to the pain inflicted by the officers. "If we believe this notion of excited delirium," he said, "one of the things with excited delirium is that you're impervious to pain."
Cichuniec and Cooper, who arrived 11 minutes after Woodyard first approached McClain, nevertheless agreed with the cops' diagnosis. According to the indictment, they reached that conclusion "after receiving some information from officers and observing Mr. McClain for about one minute." Neither paramedic "ascertained Mr. McClain's vital signs," the indictment notes. "Nor did either of them talk to or physically touch Mr. McClain before diagnosing him with excited delirium."
The appropriate treatment, they decided, was an injection of ketamine. No one at the scene questioned that decision. "Yep, sounds good," Rosenblatt said when Cooper announced that he planned to inject McClain with ketamine. "Perfect, dude, perfect," Roedema agreed.
Piling error upon error, Cooper administered 500 milligrams of ketamine. The correct dose for a 143-pound man would have been 325 milligrams, so McClain was given about 50 percent more than he should have received. Cooper never asked McClain his weight, instead guessing that it was about 200 pounds. Even if that estimate had been correct, the dosage still would have been about 50 milligrams too high.
At the paramedics' trial, Colorado Public Radio reported, "Cooper and Cichuniec said they didn't hear a police supervisor on the scene, Sgt. Dale Leonard, tell them a few details about what happened, including that McClain had received two carotid holds, which cut blood flow off to his brain, and that he had been vomiting repeatedly ever since." That information was relevant because ketamine can suppress respiration, which is especially problematic for someone whose breathing is already compromised.
Prosecutors argued that the paramedics failed to properly monitor McClain. "After McClain was given a large dose of ketamine by paramedics," Colorado Public Radio noted, "body worn camera footage shows that they didn't immediately tend to him, check his airway or otherwise look at his vital signs." Pulmonologist David Beuther testified that closer attention could have saved McClain's life. If a patient is "a little too sleepy" and "starting to slip into deep sedation," he said, you can reposition his head or use "a little plastic tube" to aid breathing.
By the time McClain was lifted onto a gurney, he was unconscious and snoring, which can indicate an overdose. In the ambulance, paramedics found that McClain had no pulse and was not breathing. They revived him with CPR and epinephrine, but he never regained consciousness.
The original autopsy report listed both the cause and manner of death as unknown. Stephen Cina, the pathologist who wrote the report, later revised it in light of information discovered by Weiser's investigation. The amended report describes the cause of death as "complications of ketamine administration following forcible restraint" but still lists the manner of death as "undetermined." Mitchell testified that he agreed with Cina about the cause of death but thought it was clear that the manner was homicide.
That characterization, which does not necessarily imply criminal liability, seems hard to deny, since it is clear that McClain would not have died if the cops and paramedics had left him alone. The question of how to allocate the legal responsibility for his death is more complicated, given all the things that went wrong that night. The cops argued that the paramedics were mainly to blame. "Elijah McClain would not have died but for the ketamine," one of Roedema's lawyers told the jury. Cooper and Cichuniec argued that the cops were mainly to blame, since they controlled the scene, provided the information on which the paramedics relied, and caused the vomiting that may have contributed to McClain's death.
Why was Rosenblatt acquitted? He had less experience than the other officers, and his lawyer, Harvey Steinberg, argued that Rosenblatt was just following orders. Roedema, by contrast, was the senior officer on the scene, and his treatment of McClain was more aggressive than Rosenblatt's.
The indictment notes that Roedema used a "bar hammer lock," a "physical defensive tactic whereby a subject's arm is held back behind their back to gain control of the subject." Roedema "stated that he 'cranked pretty hard' on Mr. McClain's shoulder and heard it pop three times." Steinberg suggested that Rosenblatt was less violent and therefore less culpable: "Rosenblatt didn't jerk his arm. It was Roedema. Rosenblatt didn't have his knee in his back. It was Roedema." It was also Roedema who claimed, probably inaccurately, that McClain was trying to grab Rosenblatt's gun, which everyone agreed was a major factor in escalating the violence.
Woodyard's acquittal is harder to understand. He set the tone for the whole encounter by initiating the use of force, and he not only used a carotid hold but did so twice, which was contrary to department policy. But Woodyard faced a different jury than Roedema did, and this one may have been more inclined to credit the claim that the cops were acting in self-defense.
Woodyard, who had been a police officer for about two years at the time, "tearfully told jurors he was weeping to his supervisor on the scene because he was fearful that he was going to die and needed to step away," Colorado Public Radio reported. The officer's lawyer, Andrew Ho, portrayed him as a bystander. "Nathan Woodyard entrusted Elijah McClain to the care and custody of his fellow officers and entrusted Elijah McClain to medically trained professionals," Ho said. "Nathan Woodyard did not kill Elijah. He's not responsible for what other people did or did not do."
Was anyone responsible? "Just because there's a tragedy does not mean there's criminality," one of Roedema's lawyers said during closing arguments. But prosecutor Duane Lyons emphasized that the officers had not followed their training. "They were told what to do," he said. "It didn't have to be this way…They were given instructions, they had opportunities, and they failed to choose to de-escalate violence when they needed to." He also faulted them for failing to check on McClain's breathing. "This is not just a tragedy," he said. "This is a crime."
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The fuck?
Yeah, I got to 'the invocation of "excited delerium" as a justification for the use of force' and stopped to check the byline.
Sullum is just retarded. As bad as Elizabeth 'Sonograms detect electric currents' Nolan Brown.
In any case, "excited delerium" is a scientifically dubious concept that is not recognized by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, or the World Health Organization. The label serves mainly to justify what would otherwise seem like excessive force.
JFC. Oh well, if the AMA, WHO, *and* APA say "100% safe and effective, with no down sides" then it *must* be true.
GFY Sullum.
Remember, the WHO told us there was no evidence of person to person covid transmission.
At least ENB can make a sandwich.
Debatable.
Anemia means a hemoglobin below normal. For a male it should be above 13 g/dL, however, generally, it won't be termed anemia until it's under 11 g/dL. That does not mean at 10.9 your hands go so cold that you have to wear a ski mask and knit cap in the summer time. Also, the last two places that will lose heat is the head and the torso, because it's basic fucking survival, e.g. your body prioritizes as you reach critical level of danger. Meaning if your head is so cold you have to wear a ski mask AND knit cap in the summer, due to anemia, it is so severe that you aren't walking around. Likely aren't speaking very well either, because your oxygen transportation system is so compromised that your brain is prioritizing basic life functions and shutting down higher functions. Basically, for it to be that low you're clinically showing the same symptoms as hypovolemic shock (for the same reason, lack of hemoglobin to transport oxygen). If and this is a big if, he was so anemic that he was feeling the effects by cooling of the head (due to decreased circulation as blood is being shunted to maintain the heart and respiratory system and lower brain stem, the last things to be shut down before clinical death), the chances of you being able to conduct a coherent discussion is about the same as hitting all six numbers in the lotto in back to back weeks.
As for the paramedics, if, and I'm not saying one way or the other without viewing the body cam footage, the patient is so combative that it took four officers to subdue him, no you aren't going to risk your safety obtaining vitals first. Fuck, as my senior instructor told us on day one of AIT "a dead medic can save no one's life". The first thing in training in every single scenario in EMT Basic class and every level after that is 'I'm donning my PPE (personal protective equipment) and scanning the scene for safety". It's not let's talk to the combative patient, get a history and take some vitals. A sixty pound over estimation of weight is really not that surprising (even trained medical personal are prone to poorly estimate weight, generally even a 50% over dose isn't going to be lethal (contrary to popular media).
Based on this, Sullum is sensationalizing and editorializing, and leaving out a ton of pertinent facts. Oh and weren't several of the cops that detained Floyd not white? Like some were black and Asian right? Sullum said like Floyd, this was a black man being detained and restrained by white officers, so if there is one white officer present, do they all automatically become white?
Yeah someone fucked up and someone died. But fuck, no, anemia would not be an adequate explanation for the ski mask and knit cap. And if it was the explanation, then the dude was so anemic that he had one foot already in the grave, and the anemia was the contributing factor (and he likely wasn't being calm, or coherent and would have appeared and sounded either drunk or high as fuck). We're talking ranges less than 6, maybe even less than 4. I've treated people that low. Trust me they aren't calmy walking around. Oh and we were shotgunning that blood transfusion when we got the lab results back, running it in at a rate far, far faster than is recommended and risking the pulmonary edema that running it that fast can cause (so we were giving massive doses of furosemide too after each unit. A unit of PRBC is estimated to raise hemoglobin by about one point. Generally two units is average that you want to run in a non-trauma situation (e.g. active bleeding or surgically related bleeding). We doubled that and ran all four units in less time than we would normally run two. That low, you throw the book out the window and do what the PR people like to term 'heroic measures' and what we refer to as "shits hit the fan and either this is going to work or someone could be losing their license'.
Or it's entirely possible that it works and someone still loses their license.
One more note, yes, your ears and note can get cold at more minor cases or anemia, because their more exposed, less critical and are largely made up of cartilage and epidermal tissue, so have less circulation. But a ski make and knit cap? That isn't mild anemia.
Or there is some other underlying condition that's causing the anemia that is also contributing to either decreased metabolism and or circulation. Which, if that's the case, not mentioning it is likely because the underlying condition is an alternative explanation as to the cause of death.
My first thought as to an underlying condition would be sickle cell disease, it would line up better with the symptoms as described, but then it becomes less the paramedics and cops fucked up and killed him and more because of his underlying disease, the actions of the emergency workers inadvertently contributed but we're not the causative agents in the death. And the mistakes made would not be lethal by themselves. So, was it their actions or the disease, which would also explain the original autopsy reports findings. Not saying this is the case, just saying it fits the symptoms, and is impossible to diagnose in the field. Without seeing the body cam and listening to it, we can't draw a conclusion as to how coherent he was, if he was even coherent enough to offer a medical history. The juries did see and hear the body cam. Given the verdicts, I'm betting there's far more to the story than Sullum is telling. And I'll leave it to you as to why he would exclude that information (if it exists).
As I understand it , he was choked out already. He never said words to the EMTs, he was out cold, partially aspirating his own vomit after 2 chokehold attempts. The lawyer argues the EMTs never assessed him properly, and just gave him drugs. Also, what do you make of this :
In the prosecution’s rebuttal, Jason Slothouber told the court while the officers did not inject McClain with the ketamine, their failure to protect McClain’s airway allowed him to become hypoxic then acidotic, and that’s what made the ketamine so dangerous to McClain.
Officers didn’t provide accurate information to the paramedics when they arrived on scene, and in doing so they “failed Elijah McClain,” Slothouber said.
https://www.wsiltv.com/news/national/one-officer-who-arrested-elijah-mcclain-convicted-of-criminally-negligent-homicide-second-officer-acquitted/article_0b1b5058-2747-5858-961a-c523836a4126.html
(I'm not medically savvy enough to know if that is bs or not)
The victim committed no crime, no contact was indicated in the first place, the LEO's lied repeatedly, after verifying that there was no sign of a crime in progress, no report of a crime and no evidence of a crime likely to be committed the LEO's should have gone back to the donut shop. After making contact despite all that, instead of de-escalating and moving on, they went all macho and escalated. After subduing and restraining the victim they could have just transported him to the jail, but instead they continued subduing him until he died. There is no possible excuse for this behavior by a patrol officer - none, zero, zip, nada. But keep making excuses and bringing in irrelevant trivia. Back the Blue, amiright?
Yeah it's a complicated situation but that really is the bottom line. None of this had to happen.
Including the "They did it to George Floyd and every other black man who has died of an overdose, cardio-pulmonary disease, or both in the presence of police too! The AMA, WHO, and APA says so!" messaging.
If he simply felt like wearing a ski mask or a Halloween mask, or a tutu and ballet slippers, he has every fucking right to do so. No permission needed, no permit, no excuse.
Also worth considering, because of the training and culture in some police agencies, a black cop can certainly act on the basis of racism when dealing with black citizenry. If they are taught by a predominantly white police culture that black people are criminals and threats to cops, then it's not going to matter what color their skin is. They're going to identify as more blue than black.
Dude, people have long since started to see through your white savior/white supremacist idea that "black people aren't smart enough to recognize a crime on their own and/or aren't smart enough to recognize enemies or social ills unless white people point them out to them" systemic racism bullshit.
At one point, you had a quasi-legitimate shot at some actual, equitable police reform. Instead, you and the movement around your unCritical Theories adopted a "BLM > All Lives Matter" message (which, even if it weren't a grift, being <20% of the electorate would make the movement essentially tyrannical), set up autonomous zones where your own people were chased out and treated less equitably than in society at large, looted and burned down businesses, and tore down statues.
You aren't a libertarian, you're exploiting a common contrary position or opponent to make your brand of political oppression and violent, irresponsible social disorder seem liberty oriented.
You and Sullum can go fuck each other.
LOL, this "black face of white supremacy" argument isn't even worth considering.
Copsuckers find any reason to defend their murderous idols. Clearly, this man was Walking Whie Black, a felony in your mind, but only to murdering racist cops and their few defenders.
FVCK SULLUM
This was NOTHING like George Floyd. George Floyd DID commit a crime, and resisted a LAWFUL arrest. George Floyd injected HIMSELF with a fatal overdose.
Sullum is such a huge disingenuous piece of shit. I thought it only extended to Trump- No, it’s any and every topic
Amd this article is poorly written drivel. And as usual, I feel like if I did my own diving I would find at least two salient points Sullum purposely left out.
Sullum is such a lying propagandist.
Much like cops..... lying propogandists. "I have a right to stop you because you're being suspicious," Woodyard replied. this is a blatant lie and you know it.
What IS similar is that he fought the police. I learned from my father back when I was young (I'm white and 64) to NEVER fight your case with the police in the street because you'll never win, that's what courts are for. If he'd just told the cops what he was doing he'd be alive today and could have taken them to court, or if they pressed some made up charges he could have fought them in court, instead he fought them and once he did that in my opinion he was making himself look guilty of something. If a cop comes up to me and asks why I'm there and who I am I'm not going to start getting violent with them or screaming at them, I'm going to show my ID and explain why I'm there even if I know I don't have to.
If you are walking somewhere wearing headphones and someone tackles you from behind, you may not know who you are dealing with until the someone has escalated things beyond conversation. I mean, the kid apologized for vomiting, what more do you want?
Floyd was also complaining of not being able to breathe before he was put on the ground, because he refused to to stay in the police car.
He (may have) committed a minor non-violent crime (trying to pass phony money either knowingly or unintentionally), did NOT "resist arrest" he resisted being put into a confined space after being handcuffed and then he was tortured to death after he was no longer any kind of threat to police officers, himself, or the public at large. Other than that the cases are EXACTLY similar in the details of police misconduct - and dozens of other recent cases. At every point in the Floyd case and in the case that is the subject of this case the responders could have de-escalated but chose not to.
Resisting being put on a police car is resisting arrest. They don’t publicly reprimand you on the street and let you go
Pure malarky. They could have stood there waiting for an ambulance or a large paddy wagon. They wanted to teach this guy a lesson; they wanted to vent some of their frustration on him; they thought they had a good excuse to do it so they did it. You know it, I know it, they knew it and the jury knew it.
Your mind reading powers must be formidable.
Thy could have waited for a horse drawn carriage or a luxury yacht as well
George Floyd died of an overdose. He was dying at the time he was arrested and NOTHING the police could have done would have saved him.
His case was NOTHING like McClains.
I'd be fascinated why the jury, who heard the evidence, didn't agree with your armchair assessment. Are you an expert on addiction and the level of drug required to be fatal? Are you a toxicologist? Are you aware that the "fatal level of drugs in a bloodstream is a range, not a finite single point? Whatever you read on whatever Klansman website from which you obtain your information is misleading at best, and likely a politically-motivated lie. I doubt you care, evidence means nothing to racists like you and Chauvin.
I don't know who you are asking that of, Dave, but yes I am an expert on drug addiction and toxicology. Also epidemiology and statistics. None of that matters, however, because the jury also rendered an "armchair assessment" since it's almost certain that none of them were experts in addiction or toxicologists. They listened to the evidence just as I did. However, maybe it escaped YOUR attention but the coroner in at least one of the cases mentioned in this article ruled death due to homicide by the responders (injection of ketamine overdose) and the jury IGNORED that "expert opinion."
"...he was responding to a 911 call from a teenager who thought McClain "look[ed] sketchy" because he was wearing a ski mask and making "all these kinds of signs" with his hands. The caller added that "he might be a good person or a bad person." He said no one was in danger and he had not seen any weapons."
It always starts with a Karen, doesn't it? Too bad the "good citizen" dipshit cannot be prosecuted as well; first and foremost.
If by any remote possibility that person is reading this, you must know that you deserve to rot in hell for setting this in motion. Same goes for anyone who "sees something says something." If it's that important to you to report on your fellow citizens, do us all a favor and immigrate to North Korea.
Sometimes the "Karens" are prosecuted for filing a false report (see the Pecan Street Raid in Houston and various SWATing prosecutions.) Obviously filing a suspicious person report is not illegal although it is often misguided. There is no possible doubt that the victim in this case was acting peculiarly.
The way the story is presented sure looks like they attacked a citizen based on nothing at all
I am at a loss to explain why the paramedics would’ve injected the victim with anything.
There was no medical indication for giving the patient anything much less ketamine.
Don’t the police restrain people with handcuffs?
Chemical restraints with drugs is extremely dangerous as seen in this situation.
How come he wasn’t handcuffed and taken to the jail?
I am at a loss to explain why the paramedics
The dead person is black. The pigs and copsucking medicos are not.
There was no medical indication for giving the patient anything
And they need to die in prison for that.
“I am being detained or am I free to go?”
McClain, who was holding his cellphone in one hand and a bag with the cans of iced tea in the other, "had no observable weapon and had not displayed violent or threatening behavior," the panel noted. "No crime had been reported.
Wearing clothing of your choice in open public on a sidewalk is suspicious because we say it is, so we are detaining you.
Florida, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and West Virginia have anti-mask laws, making it illegal to conceal your identity in public. Governments made temporary exemptions for COVID-related masks, but ski masks are not COVID masks.
Colorado does not have anti-mask laws, but that doesn't change the principle: states can and do regulate what you wear in public spaces and whether you can conceal your face.
That would be fine ... IF ... they did have such laws. But since they did not, isn't the point that they could have done it... moot ? Since they clearly did not.
We are still at "he committed no crime" point, which has not been resolved.
I don't see why "no crime" is relevant. Police can legitimately stop you for lots of reasons if you have committed "no crime".
The thing that went wrong here is that the paramedics made a mistake and injected too much ketamine.
"Stopping" you is not the same as tackling you because your feels were hurt because the kid didn't hear you. To FORCIBLY stop someone requires something more than wanting to talk to them. He wasn't even suspected of any crime, which might give reason to stop him...though even with that, not reasonably in the way they did.
Police can also detain you and even arrest you if you have not committed a crime.
Furthermore, they can use force if you resist.
Again, I'm not defending what these cops did in this case (I don't know the case). But merely the fact that police used violence against an innocent person is neither illegal nor unexpected.
The thing that went wrong here is that the paramedics made a mistake and injected too much ketamine.
They fucked up big time. They need to pay dearly for that fuck up.
The thing that went wrong here is that the paramedics made a mistake and injected too much ketamine.
Correct.
What the commenters are missing here for context, is the part of Aurora where this all happened is one of the biggest shitholes in the Denver metro. It's been a garbage heap for at least 35 years, when California OGs started moving into the area as well as east Denver to set up their drug-dealing networks. That didn't really change even after the area became populated mostly by Hispanic immigrants.
Typically, someone walking around in a ski mask in that area isn't up to any good, and the cops who patrol those areas are always on high alert because of the crime rates and general dysfunction of northwest Aurora. People who get pulled over in that part of town tend to mostly be the dregs of society who will lie their ass off to misdirect from whatever bullshit they're pulling.
That wasn't the case with McClain, because he was just a weirdo who was walking home. The cops really should have just let him go and then have someone tail him until he got home. Putting that scrawny dude in a chokehold and then injecting him with enough ketamine to drop a horse was, at the absolute minimum, manslaughter.
NO! They may not stop (detain) you w/o Reasonable Articulable Suspicion. That is the ONLY reason they may stop someone. This whole thing started with jack-booted thugs, and that's where the majority of the responsibilities lie.
Or perhaps failing to comply with illegal commands while failing to hear those commands from behind you by a law enforcement officer because you're listening to music while walking down the street in public is suspicious ...
For whatever weird reason, young people of all races wear hoodies in the summer. Yes, it's weird and yes, they're sheep all dressing in a way they stupidly think is cool. But it isn't a crime, and any cop who says he isn't aware of this trend is either lying or a complete moron. Likely both.
In my dream world, the moment the police inappropriately escalate a situation, they are criminally liable for everything that happens afterwards. No intent needed - strict liability.
In this situation, they should be guilty of at least manslaughter, because their inappropriate escalation caused the death. And if found to be a murder, then guilty of murder.
I would very much prefer a libertarian society, where private neighborhood security can, in fact, stop mentally ill people in ski masks running around the neighborhood flailing their arms simply for running around in ski masks flailing their arms if local home owners decide that's what they want.
Not just a ski mask, a ski mask and knit cap... in Summer... because he has anemia.
Between this and the 'excited delerium' bullshit, if it weren't for the corpse in the morgue I'd say Sullum fabricated the whole thing. Because the temporally incompatible diagnoses and off-the-wall unsubstantiated assumptions make about as much sense as Trump being guilty of widthholding funds that were already in the mail.
Given Sullum’s track record with the truth I’m pretty sure he’s hiding/fabricating a lot.
I'd rather live in a libertarian society where you can wear whatever clothing you want including a full rack of peacock feathers and not get hassled by the government jackboots unless you are actually breaking a law.
You suffer from the common delusion that if police can't do something, then it can't be done.
In a libertarian society, most spaces are private property. Instead of police, you have private security, and private security on private property have a lot more powers.
For example, they can simply order you to leave for wearing a ski mask or peacock feathers, and they can use force simply if you refuse to comply.
I bet you're too fat to secure your own property. Spend so much time on internet comments that you couldn't detain a pool noodle.
I hire people to secure my private property. And I'm mostly retired.
How about you?
What a sad life.
Well, this is one of many things you are wrong on.
Translation: I'm a fat pussy who can't secure my property.
Translation: you're either a poor slob or you're just eager for an excuse to beat people up.
You're half right - I could kick the shit out you pretty easily.
You’re half right – I could kick the shit out you pretty easily.
LOL, Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber thought much the same thing when they saw a pudgy teenager running around.
Don't need to be built like a gigachad when a nice 5.56mm round to the vital areas works just as effectively.
Your "dream" society is a nightmare society to people of good sense.
There are SOOOO many things that we don't know, and can NEVER know! And ALL sorts of dipshits expect Perfect Knowledge out of judges, juries, cops, and lawyers! Give it a REST already, all of ye Perfect and All-Knowing people! Coulda-woulda-shoulda fixes VERY little, in complicated messes!
C-
"questionable use of "pain compliance" techniques"
Literally not what was used on George Floyd. They didn't try to subdue him through pain, they put him in full restraint on the ground, to hold him in place. He wasn't tased, he didn't have an arm twisted, didn't take a baton to the knee or anything. They called the paramedics about his apparent medical distress before Derek Chauvin ever approached.
If you're going to criticize the technique they used, where they left him pinned down face down too long when he should have been rolled to his side, at least accurately describe what they were doing.
Why should he? The media at large appear to do pretty well lying about pretty much everything with impunity. And Sullum so wants to be like them.
Yeah, A Thinking Mind is assuming Sullum's goal is that no one gets choked out for simply walking the streets rather than just different people get choked out.
Sounds like the cops and EMTs used all the excuses they’ve been taught. Guess their trainers need to come up with some new ones.
"Stop resisting!" "He touched your gun!" "He's strong as a gorilla -- must be on something!" "I can do whatever I want because I'm a cop!"
How far into this article did Sullum make it before he blamed Trump? Couldn't bother reading the lying propagandist.
What happened to the snitch that started the whole thing?
What should "happen" to them? What law do you think they broke?
What law do you think they broke?
False reporting and false portrayal while not a member of The Media.
False reporting? They said they saw a person in a ski mask waving his arms frantically, and they thought it was suspicious. What exactly do you think was "false" about that?
What exactly do you think was “false” about that?
Not derived directly from Minitrue, ergo false. Duh.
So where is the part where he resisted arrest physically ? All I've read so far is verbal assertion of his rights, a cop saying "he's got your gun", and a hard takedown and choke out, then forced drugs and death.
While the cops were trying, without any legal justification, to force McClain onto the grassy area, Roedema told Rosenblatt, "He grabbed your gun, dude." According to Woodyard, that exclamation "changed the situation." Once he heard Roedema's warning, Woodyard said, he decided to "take [McClain] down to the ground as hard as I could." While tackling McClain, Woodyard twice attempted a "carotid control hold," which aims to induce unconsciousness by applying pressure on both sides of the neck to cut off blood flow to the brain. The second, more successful attempt happened when McClain was restrained on the ground.
Why did the cop say something about a gun ? Did they clear that up in court ? It was a obvious lie because all the bodycams agree that never happened.
It's standard cop CYA BS taught in the police academy: "Stop resisting!" "He grabbed your gun!"
And they'd have gotten away with it if not for those pesky body cameras.
The person who also needs to be put on trial (and convicted) is the person calling about a "suspicious person"
In all too many of cases like this (and not George Floyd or Mike Brown, who were criminals committing criminal acts) it's someone complaining about a suspicious person
The person who also needs to be put on trial (and convicted) is the person calling about a “suspicious person”
Bullshit. If you run around my neighborhood with a ski mask and waving your arms, I'm going to call the police as well, because there clearly is something wrong with you. If you then get yourself killed when talking to them, that's your problem, not mine.
Okay, Karen.
Oh, my attitude long predates Karen: get off my lawn and get the f*ck out of my neighborhood.
As I posted above, North Korea might suit you, given your predilection for reporting on your fellow citizens.
The caller clearly stated they had no reason to think he was dangerous or committing a crime, just "looked sketchy," and while the cops and EMTs certainly engaged in a descending circle of related fuck ups, it all started with that.
The caller clearly stated they had no reason to think he was dangerous or committing a crime, just “looked sketchy,”
So the caller was truthful and left it up the police.
and while the cops and EMTs certainly engaged in a descending circle of related fuck ups, it all started with that.
That's not the callers fault.
As I posted above, North Korea might suit you, given your predilection for reporting on your fellow citizens.
Yes, you are evidently utterly ignorant of how police states or totalitarian regimes actually work. I'm not. I spent some of my youth in one. You're an idiot.
Uh-oh, looks like we got a Hoppean dork.
Sure, tough guy. In reality, you're a weakling sissy living in Mommy's basement.
The police aren't there to address people with whom we think something is wrong. The legitimate use of police is to stop people who are harming, or trying to harm, others. This isn't that.`
Somebody wearing a ski mask in the summer? My first thought would be "an armed robbery either just occurred, or is about to".
Also, the caller made it clear to 911 that he didn't see a weapon, and didn't see him McClain commit any crime. This wasn't some Karen calling the cops because some guy in the park was Walking His Dog While Black.
Assuming that Sullum's version of events in any way matches reality (that's a pretty big assumption, since he's fond of leaving out details that don't match his narrative), the caller's only mistake was assuming that cops would act like reasonable human beings.
Shortly after the George Floyd atrocity, Washington state enacted five new laws to rein in police misconduct. Strangely, I have found no media coverage of the results of the new rules of engagement. I wonder why?
https://www.police1.com/police-reform/articles/washingtons-new-laws-tie-the-hands-of-law-enforcement-officers-tJpLJYfyQ8Emrq4c/
"These new laws will cause every law enforcement and corrections agency and all its officers to reconsider the way they go about their jobs. It’s also causing many of those officers to consider leaving the profession."
"The laws limit police response to mental crisis calls and create a new use-of-force standard that’s “nearly impossible to meet”
https://www.police1.com/legal/articles/wash-police-leaders-voice-concern-as-reform-laws-go-into-effect-Hd2o9Ll75keafetB/
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=5051&Initiative=false&Year=2021
"Concerning state oversight and accountability of peace officers and corrections officers."
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1310&Initiative=false&Year=2021
"Concerning permissible uses of force by law enforcement and correctional officers."
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1054&Initiative=false&Year=2021
"Establishing requirements for tactics and equipment used by peace officers."
“Nothing we enacted this year prevents them from responding to calls or showing up at the scene,” said state Rep. Roger Goodman, D-Kirkland, who chairs the House Public Safety Committee.
"This is because the new law establishes probable cause as the new standard for using physical force against someone, as may be necessary to stop someone who decides to run away. Previously, officers could forcibly detain people based on reasonable suspicion, a lower evidentiary standard."
https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/07/what-new-wa-police-accountability-laws-do-and-dont-do
"“One of the big reforms that I-940 was meant to bring was completely independent investigations of in-custody deaths like Mr. Ellis,” Ericksen said. “And that just didn’t happen. The law was violated, and in many ways, there really haven’t been any consequences for that.” The Pierce County Sheriff’s Office botched the initial probe into the death by failing to disclose for three months that one of its deputies had been involved in restraining Ellis, despite the state law requiring independent investigations."
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/washington-state-police-accountability-law-in-the-18571534.php
"Lawyers for the three Tacoma officers said their clients acted in good faith and were relieved by the verdict. The Pierce County medical examiner ruled Ellis’ death was a homicide caused by oxygen deprivation, but the defense argued at trial that methamphetamine in his system and a heart irregularity were to blame."
So, apparently heart disease and medications are now punishable by death without a trial by jury. Torturing a "suspect" to death while in custody is "acting in good faith" and juries still cannot be relied upon to punish law enforcement officers who commit crimes in the course of their professional duties.
https://www.the-journal.com/articles/washington-state-police-accountability-law-in-the-spotlight-after-officers-cleared-in-ellis-death/
You are torturing the English language to death.
In my case, however, there IS probable cause ...
"In both cases, a black man complained that he could not breathe after he was tackled and pinned to the ground by white police officers"
This myth of Floyd complaining about not being able to breath only after being tackled and restrained persists to this day. Anyone that watched the entire footage of the encounter knows this is a lie.
It's as a egregious a lie as "hands up don't shoot" was.
People suffering panic attacks commonly feel like they can't breathe properly. Why is that hard for you to understand?
Me: "How far do you want to move the goalposts?"
EdG: "Yes"
The Aurora PD has a long history of bad behavior. This is just one of many incidents.
To be fair, northwest Aurora isn't exactly a model of social stability and high-trust behavior itself.
Nothing is even remotely "fair" about what you just said. The American tradition - or myth if you prefer - is that police authority is limited and that the people have rights. People are supposed to be free to do whatever they like as long as they don't violate a small number of clearly written laws based on overwhelming social needs or protection of the equal rights of the people. The huge growth of laws on the books at every level of government and the abuse of law enforcement authority give the lie to that mythology. Social stability and trust in government agencies is irrelevant to those fundamental legal and constitutional issues. Pretending that they ARE relevant gives law enforcement officers all the excuse they need to misbehave with impunity. The "broken windows" theory, the "war on poverty" and the "war on drugs" have all been massive failures, opening the doors to the current nasty mess. No more excuses!