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First Amendment

This NRA Supreme Court Case Has Big Implications for Porn

The ACLU will represent the gun rights group in a case with widespread relevance for free speech.

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 12.15.2023 3:35 PM

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guns and constitution | Illustration: Lex Villena
(Illustration: Lex Villena)

Strange bedfellows make for good First Amendment warriors in a case concerning guns, financial institutions, and free speech. Last week, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) announced that it will represent the National Rifle Association (NRA) in National Rifle Association of America v. Vullo, which the Supreme Court recently agreed to hear. The case is an interesting one, with more than a bit of relevance beyond the NRA—particularly for entities related to sexuality or tolerant of sex work.

"We don't support the NRA's mission or its viewpoints on gun rights, and we don't agree with their goals, strategies, or tactics," the ACLU posted on X (formerly Twitter) on December 9. "But we both know that government officials can't punish organizations because they disapprove of their views."

Some might bristle at all this throat-clearing, but it's good to see the ACLU—which has been accused (not unfairly)of putting politics before principles in recent years—loudly embrace civil liberties issues regardless of whether the victim is palatable to progressives. The ACLU knows (even if it seems to have some selective amnesia on this point) that letting government officials abuse authority against groups you disagree with or dislike only makes it easier for officials to abuse you and groups involved in the causes you do like.

The case involves actions taken by Maria Vullo in the wake of the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, in 2018. Vullo was superintendent of the New York State Department of Financial Services (DFS), which has regulatory and enforcement power over banks and insurance companies in the state.

In April 2018, DFS issued a "Guidance on Risk Management Relating to the NRA and Similar Gun Promotion Organizations" to banks, insurance companies, and other financial institutions. The guidance mentioned "several recent horrific shootings, including in Parkland" and noted the "social backlash" that these had produced against the NRA. They then encouraged institutions "to continue evaluating and managing their risks, including reputational risks, that may arise from their dealings with the NRA or similar gun promotion organizations, if any." DFS also urged companies to think of their own "codes of social responsibility" and "to review any relationships they have with the NRA or similar gun promotion organizations, and to take prompt actions to manag[e] these risks and promote public health and safety."

That same day, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's office put out a press release crowing that Cuomo had told DFS "to urge insurance companies, New York State-chartered banks, and other financial services companies licensed in New York to review any relationships they may have with the National Rifle Association and other similar organizations."

The press release quotes Vullo saying that "DFS urges all insurance companies and banks doing business in New York to join the companies that have already discontinued their arrangements with the NRA, and to take prompt actions to manage these risks and promote public health and safety."

Vullo's actions echo those of Cook County, Illinois, Sheriff Tom Dart. In 2015, Dart urged credit card companies not to do business with Backpage. Dart suggested that if credit card companies didn't sever ties with Backpage, they could be complicit in sex trafficking and money laundering (despite the fact that Backpage had not even been charged with any such crimes).

Backpage sued, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit eventually declared Dart's actions unconstitutional.

You might think the Backpage/Dart episode would dampen enthusiasm for political figures coercing finance companies into dropping disfavored entities or groups. But in recent years, it appears to be an increasingly prevalent tack.

Advocates and politicians seem not just to want to beat ideological foes in the battle of ideas but to destroy their ability to exist at all. And one way to go about that is to strike at a company or group's ability to access banks, payment processors, and other financial services.

There are probably a lot of folks who think, "I don't care if the NRA has access to financial services," just like a lot of people have said the same thing about Backpage, porn websites, and other sex-work-friendly businesses. But even those who can't bring themselves to care on principle should worry about the kinds of precedent this sets.

Remember, we're not talking about people and groups convicted of crimes, nor about authorities using official channels to sanction them. We're talking about authorities attempting a backdoor route to getting what they want.

In this case, Vullo alleges that there was nothing improper about any of this because she didn't directly threaten anyone. "Neither the guidance memoranda nor [the] quote in Governor Cuomo's press release ordered or directed any regulated entity to take any action," states Vullo's June brief to the Supreme Court. "They did not invoke any law or regulation that any regulated entity risked violating" nor "threaten that DFS would take any action against any entity" that didn't ditch the NRA.

But this is weasel talk. Because there was pretty clearly an implicit threat in Vullo's guidance and statements.

"DFS directives regarding 'risk management' must be taken seriously by financial institutions, as risk-management deficiencies can result in regulatory action, including fines of hundreds of millions of dollars," suggested the NRA in its petition to the Supreme Court. "Thus, Vullo's phrasing was deliberate, implicitly threatening enforcement risk."

The NRA also alleged that Vullo "secretly offered leniency to insurers for unrelated infractions if they dropped the NRA" and "extracted highly-publicized and over-reaching consent orders, and multi-million dollar penalties, from firms that formerly served the NRA."

These firms—Lockton Companies, Chubb Limited, and Lloyd's of London—were all associated in some way with the NRA-endorsed "Carry Guard" insurance, which covered expenses related to the use of a gun (including criminal defense and personal injury) and, according to Vullo, violated New York insurance law. DFS issued a $7 million fine to Lockton, a $1.3 million fine to Chubb, and a $5 million fine to Lloyd's.

Subsequently, Chubb and Lockton "agreed to cease underwriting, managing, or selling affinity-insurance programs for the NRA in perpetuity, regardless of the legality of the program," according to the NRA's petition. Soon thereafter, Lloyd's did similarly. "Privately, these companies stated that the decision to sever ties with the NRA arose from fear of regulatory hostility from DFS," states the NRA's petition to SCOTUS. "The NRA has encountered similar fears from providers of corporate insurance, and even banks contacted for basic depository services."

The NRA sued Vullo and Gov. Cuomo, arguing that they violated the First Amendment by instituting an "implicit censorship regime" and retaliating against the NRA because of its gun rights advocacy. The NRA also argued that they violated the 14th Amendment by selectively enforcing state insurance law. The district court dismissed the latter claim but sided with the NRA on the free speech issue.

Vullo appealed, sending the matter to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit. This time, the court rejected the NRA's arguments. "Vullo acted reasonably and in good faith in endeavoring to meet the duties and responsibilities of her office," held a three-judge panel of the circuit court.

The NRA appealed and, in November, the Supreme Court agreed to take up the case.

The 2nd Circuit ruling "creates a circuit split with the Seventh Circuit's decision in Backpage.com, which held that a government official violated the First Amendment in circumstances closely comparable to these," stated the NRA in its petition to the Court.

In addition to the Backpage/Dart debacle, the NRA points to Bantam Books, Inc. v. Sullivan, a 1963 case in which the Supreme Court held that Rhode Island's Commission to Encourage Morality in Youth violated the First Amendment by attempting to use "informal sanctions"—including the "threat of invoking legal sanctions and other means of coercion, persuasion, and intimidation"—to suppress the publication of materials deemed unfit for kids. In the present case, Vullo "applied similar pressure tactics-including backchannel threats, ominous guidance letters, and selective enforcement of regulatory infractions-to induce banks and insurance companies to avoid doing business with…a gun rights advocacy group," noted the NRA.

Allowing the 2nd Circuit's decision to stand gives "gives state officials free rein to financially blacklist their political opponents—from gun-rights groups, to abortion-rights groups, to environmentalist groups, and beyond," the organization argued.

That seems exactly right. I don't know enough about insurance law to determine whether the Carry Guard coverage really was breaking some technical rules about what kinds of things can be insured. But even if it was, issuing millions in fines seems excessive and at least potentially designed to deter other businesses from doing business with the NRA. What's more, Vullo and Cuomo's statements and the DFS guidance in this case make clear that this was about more than just a particular insurance program or type of coverage. This was clearly about trying to dissuade companies from doing business with Second Amendment advocacy groups at all, in part by hinting that there may be negative consequences for those that do.

As with the porn industry, there are a lot of people disinclined to care when the NRA's rights are violated. But if politicians can get away with pressuring financial institutions to shun the NRA (or Backpage, or porn producers, or whatever entity it is the next time), then they can get away with doing it to any disfavored or marginalized group. And do you really think that politicians won't try to do the same thing to groups you like?

No doubt there are conservative politicians itching to shut off funding for groups that engage in racial justice demonstrations, help women obtain abortions, or advocate for transgender rights. There are progressive politicians who would love to take down platforms that give voice to right-leaning voices. And there are probably folks on both sides who wish they could shut up groups that challenge government authority.

I'll leave the last word to the ACLU: "If the Supreme Court doesn't intervene," it commented, "it will create a dangerous playbook for state regulatory agencies across the country to blacklist or punish any viewpoint-based organizations—from abortion rights groups to environmental groups or even ACLU affiliates."

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NEXT: 'Everything I Said About Them Is True,' Giuliani Insisted Days Before a Jury Debated His Defamation Debt

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

First AmendmentNRAACLUSupreme CourtSecond AmendmentGun RightsFree SpeechInsuranceBankingFinancial RegulationNew YorkLawsuitsLaw & Government
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  1. Chumby   2 years ago

    Both can involve a negligent discharge.

    1. mad.casual   2 years ago

      With all the euphemisms about penetration and hot wads, coming up with puns in such a target rich environment isn't even sporting.

      1. Chumby   2 years ago

        Pump action

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

          Hair trigger.

          1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

            Slam fire

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

              Half-cocked?

          2. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

            Alec Baldwin?

        2. mad.casual   2 years ago

          Pull!

          1. Chumby   2 years ago

            Skeet shooting

            1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

              Your fired!

              1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

                Tsk, no edit
                “You’re “

                1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

                  Lever action and scatter-shot.

      2. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

        Damp squib?

        1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

          Nice butt.

          1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

            The thing that goes up.
            🙂
            😉

  2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

    As soon as I saw it was ENB, I knew that whores were going to be involved.

    1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

      Does anyone k ow what time ENB will be serving sandwiches?

      1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

        Bitch better be serving soon.

    2. mad.casual   2 years ago

      entities related to sexuality or tolerant of sex work

      Probably me reading into it, but I LOLed at this statement. Like ENB's finally getting the hint that people are friends with sex workers and don't want to see them mistreated but the libertine/hedonistic idea that you and all your friends are sex workers who all pay and accept payment from each other and others for sex is pretty messed up. That she's not winning any friends with the "Why shouldn't your (pre-) teen daughter be allowed to be a sex worker?" "feminism".

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

        Man leans over to young daughter of colleague at Christmas party.

        Scenario 1:

        Man: Hello young, lady, I hear you're a smart one. I'm guessing the instant you're 18 you'll be heading off to law school in a few years, maybe medical school? I'll bet you'll set the world on fire.

        Scenario B:

        Hello young lady, I bet you can't wait to start your OnlyFans page the instant you're 18. I'll bet you'll set some browsers on fire.

        Sex work is work.

        1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

          If the allure of sex work can steer her away from a reprehensible path like Law, that's a good thing.

          1. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

            How many diseases can you catch in the practice of law?

            1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

              Not enough.

            2. mad.casual   2 years ago

              The funniest part about this retardation, 5,000 yrs. ago, when fucking like jackrabbits and successfully bearing a dozen or more kids (even if they didn't all survive or survive to adulthood), replacing other women lost in childbirth or men lost in combat was an unadulterated virtue, fucking around for money was still seen as an occupation to be tolerated rather than encouraged.

              Even then, people recognized that while an hour or two of fun for money isn't the worst thing in the world, it doesn't put food on anyone's table, roofs over anyone's head, or clothes on anyone's backs.

            3. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

              If they sued health care providers heavily enough, lawyers would bring back Polio and Bubonic Plague.

            4. NOYB2   2 years ago

              How many diseases can you catch from solo work in front of a webcam?

              It's probably safer than law as far as disease are concerned. Mental health and social life, not so much.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

        If someone like ENB groomed a child of mine towards prostitution, that would be the end of them.

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

          The child or Prostitution?

          1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

            Alas, the trigger-happy can't be troubled about misplaced modifiers.

            1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

              At least I don’t have misplaced Marxist sympathies.

          2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

            Nice, but obviously the groomer.

  3. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    "But we both know that government officials can't punish organizations because they disapprove of their views."

    The Oath Keepers will be glad to hear this, I am sure.

  4. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    "to review any relationships they have with the NRA or similar gun promotion organizations . . . "

    Funny, I thought the NRA promoted constitutional rights, not guns.

    1. B G   2 years ago

      NRA is actually a trade organization, and was originally founded to promote gun sales. Their website was fairly clear on that topic as recently as 5-7 years ago, I haven't really looked at much of their stuff since then; if I were going to get personally involved, I'd get into 2A Foundation or one of the "Shooting Sports" groups (same side of the issue, but with less baggage).

      Supporting 2A issues becomes inseparable from that objective when so many of the most populous states in the country keep trying to effectively repeal it within their jurisdictions, but the original mission was always about selling more guns.

      1. Grifhunter   2 years ago

        The NRA was founded out of the experience of the Civil War and the deficient marksmanship of the era's soldiers. It also became one of the earliest civil rights organizations in the US.

        The lobby for gun manufacturers/retailers is the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

        1. DWB   2 years ago

          THIS!

        2. Brett Bellmore   2 years ago

          Yeah, I'm pretty sure he already knew that, and was just repeating the party line.

      2. Brett Bellmore   2 years ago

        "NRA is actually a trade organization, and was originally founded to promote gun sales."

        You've apparently got them confused with the NSSF.

        1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

          Yeah, a lot of gun grabbers do that on purpose. The NRA keeps its books pretty open, less than 10% comes from gun manufacturers, 90+% from member dues and donations. Due paying members hover around the ten million mark, but when asked, something like 20 million people claim membership.

          1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

            Like Catholics?

          2. B G   2 years ago

            The only guns I've got any intention of grabbing are the ones I own (I think the count is up to 14 including the Colt Python I bought a couple months ago).

            I might be having some kind of Mandela effect happening, because I could swear that the NRA brochure which came with one of my first purchases mentioned something about them being originally a "trade group" for manufacturers, but it's been 5-6 years since then and I'm not past admitting that my memory can get fuzzy around certain details.

            I'd still probably join something like 2A Foundation before NRA, even knowing that a lot of the things my leftist friends believe about NRA aren't remotely true. It doesn't take long on opensecrets to verify that Bloomberg and Everytown out-spend the NRA at least 5x in terms of lobbying, for example.

      3. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

        Wrong, the NRA was founded in 1870 to improve American marksmanship by Union veterans who were appalled at the level of marksmanship in the Army during the Civil War. It also has long advocated on the importance of the 2A, but took a conciliatory approach most of the time until the 1970s, when it formed the ILA to combat the growing gun restrictionists laws (it fully admits it's early support for federal gun laws in the 1930s and 1960s was a mistake). It's funding is over 90% membership donations and dues, with less than ten percent from gun manufacturers, and it has never been a firearms trade group. That has always been the NSSF, which while sometimes working with NRA, are two separate organizations and there has been times when the NRA and NSSF have not agreed on certain policies or laws.

        1. JoeJoetheIdiotCircusBoy   2 years ago

          ^ This. Nice to see someone who even knows of the ILA and its relation to the NRA.

      4. mad.casual   2 years ago

        (same side of the issue, but with less baggage)

        Fewer members and less history is always going to come with less baggage. Unless, of course, you're one of those organizations like Pink Pistols or Redneck Revolt or the Socialist Rifle Association that brings a lot more or broader/far-reaching ideological baggage to the table up front.

        And even when it comes to baggage they do have, it's not like the NRA is Disney or Bud Light or any one of the hundreds of collegiate organizations or the dozens upon dozens of organizations that supported the BLM scam or threatened/refused to do business with NC because they said private bathroom owners could use them as they see fit.

    2. Chumby   2 years ago

      The NRA supported Romney, a gun grabber, in the R primary against Ron Paul, a legislator that received top marks from them. Wayne Lapierre liked rubbing shoulders with the beautiful people and not supporting 2A. Gun Owners of America supports 2A.

      1. Miss Ann Thrope   2 years ago

        Bingo!

      2. Brett Bellmore   2 years ago

        Yeah, I talked to him about that once. (One of the advantages of the NRA being a genuine membership organization, not astroturf like the anti-gun groups, is that if members attend the convention they can talk to the leadership face to face.)

        His defense was that they had to balance a slight chance of their support resulting in a really good candidate getting the nomination, against the much higher chance of really pissing off the bad candidate who was almost certainly going to get it. That it had to be a close race where they had a decent chance of getting the good guy a win, before it was worth the downside.

        That's why, for instance, the NRA stayed out of it when really nasty Bob Dole was running for the Republican nomination: He'd literally dropped by to tell them to their faces that, if they opposed him for the nomination, he'd use his position in the Senate to make sure as many gun control bills as possible got sent Clinton's way.

        And he'd have done it, too.

        Personally, I think LaPierre didn't appreciate the value of moral clarity, not having any of his own in the first place. But I could understand the reasoning, even if I didn't agree with it.

        1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

          LaPierre was always a bit on the slimy, DC insider side of things, but the NRA did rack up some pretty significant victories under his leadership and continues to, largely thanks to things he set in motion. Sometimes you need the slimy weasel who speaks their language to get shit done.

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            One of the best measures I think of the NRAs success was the most recent NBC poll of gun ownership in the US. For the first time since NBC has been asking this question, self described gun owners have surpassed fifty percent of the adult population. A majority of Americans are now willing to claim to be gun owners (52%, which means it's probably higher given the number who own guns but won't tell a pollster for one reason or another).

        2. Chumby   2 years ago

          The NRA had always said they would support the candidate with the higher NRA grade and I believe had until then.
          When I got the phone calls from them asking if I would support Romney, I pushed back that they were campaigning for a gun grabber.

        3. Djea3   2 years ago

          IT is REALLY too bad that someone did not get the Dole Statement on tape. That would have changed politics nationwide instantly! Possibly changed elections altogether.

          No one should EVER meet a politician unless the conversation is recorded!

        4. NOYB2   2 years ago

          His defense was that they had to balance a slight chance of their support resulting in a really good candidate getting the nomination, against the much higher chance of really pissing off the bad candidate who was almost certainly going to get it.

          True, but don't waste your breath: these are "libertarians". They believe in empty posturing as long as it sounds libertarian-ish and promotes sex and drugs somehow.

      3. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

        Also, the NRA was and is an enthusiastic supporter of The War on (Some) Drugs, under which casual users and non-violent dealers have had their right to keep and bear arms (RKBA) have been violated. The NRA's glad-handing with the Religious Right would not bode well with RKBA for pornographers, porn stars, sex workers, tbe gambling and hospitality industries, and perhaps even Unbelievers.

        Basically, the NRA is more interested in selling magazines and monogrammed T-shirts, bumper stickers, gee-jaws, and gimcracks than in defending RKBA.

        The Second Amendment Foundation, The Citizen's Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership have been great Libertarian alternatives to the NRA.

        1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

          Let me know when those organizations have been around as long as the NRA and has as long a list of legislative and judicial victories as the NRA. Not denigrating them, they're allies, but the fact is that the NRA has been successful, especially over the past thirty years. What I hear a lot of people whine about is that it's been to incremental, not radical enough. Sacrificing the good for the perfect, but each step is a step in the right direction. No, the NRA isn't perfect, and I definitely have disagreed with them, but they have moved the needle significantly.

        2. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

          Fifty-two percent of American adults now admit to being gun owners. That's in large part to the NRA's actions over the past fifty years.

    3. SRG2   2 years ago

      Nope. They opposed and scored a bill giving DC citizens voting rights. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/nra-muscle-saves-538-blocks-dc-voting/

      So clearly they're not interested in constitutional rights in general.

      1. SRG2   2 years ago

        That should be "threatened to score"

      2. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

        DC isn't a state, therefore it can't have voting rights in the HoR, the same as every other federal territory, Guam, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands etc. DC was specifically created to not be a state but a federal enclave that was never meant to be a state. So they did protect state rights in this instance, because only federally approved states can have a vote in the HoR.

        1. SRG2   2 years ago

          States' rights don't take priority over citizens' rights.

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            They are citizens the same as Puerto Ricans and people from Guam etc. They can vote for a non-voting representative. But because they live in a federal district or territory, that member can't vote in the House except as a symbolic vote. Alaska and Hawaii lived under the same rule until they were made states. In fact, except the original 13 colonies, all states that were once territories lived under the same rule. You want a voting member of Congress, you need to live in a state or have your territory declared a state. The Constitution is clear on that. Giving a voting membership to a non-state is a complete end run around the Constitution. Period. You are asking to destroy the Constitution for feels, the NRA asked to uphold the Constitution in this instance. Don't like the Constitution amend it, if you can. Don't try and make an end around to satisfy your feels.

            1. SRG2   2 years ago

              So they don't have the same rights as citizens of states - which inherently seems evidence of unequal treatment. But the more salient point is if a constitutional amendment is needed to grant residents of DC the vote, what principled objection - i.e., something other than "DC would be a reliable Democratic vote" - would get you to object to it?

              1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

                DC is a federal enclave, and it's citizens have the same rights as those living in a territory. And no, it wouldn't matter, especially as I've never voted straight Republican, have even voted for Democrats in the past. Also, DC was created specifically as a federal enclave, not even a territory, for the express purpose that DC should not get a say in how the government is ran because it is the government. Originally as conceived, DC was not even supposed to have full time residents, but only short term residents, serving the government, and citizens of other states, where they could vote. Citizens in DC can vote for city council, mayor etc. They can also vote for a representative but that representative cannot vote, because DC is not a state and never should be. It was never meant to a residential urban area. If I moved to Guam or America Samoa or Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands, and declared residency in those, I would remain a US citizen (although America Samoa and Guam are a little different) as are members of those communities, but I wouldn't be able to vote for a voting representative, nor would those areas count for the electoral college. If DC wants the vote it has to do the same thing as what every other state has done, petition for statehood, and have Congress approve it, this would prove difficult because in the US, unlike other countries, we specifically limited the power of the Capital to influence how the country is ran. This was done on purpose and worked for over two centuries. They don't have less rights, the have the same rights as any citizen of a territory or federal enclave or any citizen who moves to those areas and declared residency. There are no separate rights because everyone who lives or moves to a territory or federal enclave has the same rights. Additionally, voting wasn't considered a right, but a privilege until the latter half of the 19th century. DC resident do vote for a Representative. The difference is that representative is not a voting member of the House except under very strict exceptions. If we have DC a voting representative, you would have to also allow Puerto Rico, Guam, US Virgin Islands, America Samoa the same 'right'. Which it isn't actually a right, because having a voting member of Congress is specifically a state right, not an individual right. The right to representation is in electing a representative to represent you but the right to have that representative actually have a voting privilege is specifically limited to those that have applied for statehood and been approved. So yes, this is a state rights issue not an individual rights issue.

                You can scream it's unfair all you want, but it's never been an individual right to have a voting member of Congress, it's always been a state's right. To give rights to DC would require you to Amend the Constitution, not just vote on it and pass with a simple majority. The Constitution is clear, that DC falls under no state jurisdiction but directly under the supervision of Congress, because it's a federal enclave, separate from the states. Unilke other territories, DC does get three electoral college votes, but that took a constitutional amendment to even award those, not an act of Congress.

                Additionally, it's wrong to say DC doesn't have representation, but that representation is restricted to the same as those at territorial level, because it isn't a state but separate from all states.

              2. Squirrelloid   2 years ago

                That land was originally part of Maryland and Virginia. Rather than make DC a state, we should return the residential parts of DC to the states they came from. (And reduce DC itself to the major government buildings - Congress, White House, national mall, ... - and that would leave just one family living in 'DC', and the president not getting to vote for a member of Congress doesn't strike me as a problem.

                1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

                  Works for me. It was never meant to be a residential area anyhow. The only residency were meant to be temporary residents (President/Vice President) or foreign land (embassies). I would note the President and Vice President do vote, just in their respective states of residency.

                  Also, another note, technically territories and federal enclaves elect delegates(or commissioners in the case of Puerto Rico). Territories and federal enclaves are not considered sovereign states, and therefore, are subject directly to the federal government. States are sovereign states, as are Indian Reservations. However, citizens of Indian Reservations are allowed to vote in their respective states elections. DC actually has more rights than the territories (full constitutional rights and electoral college votes).:

                2. NOYB2   2 years ago

                  Republicans should push this.

                  Of course, they never will. They couldn't even repeal the ACA despite having the majorities.

          2. NOYB2   2 years ago

            The rights you have are defined by the Constitution, not your fantasies. If you choose to live in DC, you don't have a "citizen right" to vote for a senator or representative. If you don't like it, move somewhere else.

      3. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

        You really have no faso of the constitution. As you are completely wrong here.

      4. NOYB2   2 years ago

        DC is a federal district. It was created not to be a state. It would be unconstitutional to give people "voting rights" there.

        If you don't like it, don't live there.

  5. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

    Government never learns from experience because no one ever makes them learn by punishing the officials who violate the Constitution. The immunity that protects police from being held accountable for their crimes also protects all officials from being held personally liable for damages. Officials are free to commit and re-commit crimes over and over with impunity, and all the time, money and resources they need to spend their entire careers in court, fighting private entities who have limited resources. If it's unconstitutional to DO what they threaten, it's also unconstitutional to THREATEN to do it. We're doomed.

    1. Marc St. Stephen   2 years ago

      there was a time when a finding by the Supreme Court was enough. Not anymore, because there are no consequences. there really needs to be a situation where if the supreme court needs to reaffirm something it has already decided upon, then the culprits (i.e. lawmakers or regulatory heads) need to do jail time. How many fucking times does the supreme court need to rule that we can bear fucking arms?

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        The last time this happened, Eisenhower had to send the Army to Arkansas to enforce a Supreme Court decision.

  6. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

    We have a Constitutional right to armed porn.

    1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

      What about a right to quadruple amputee porn?

    2. Chumby   2 years ago

      A right bare arms…and other body parts.

  7. Stuck in California   2 years ago

    What the fuck is up with this chick that she has to see absolutely everything through whore colored glasses?

    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      Apparently she has regrets about her life choices.

    2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

      Maybe she’s putting whores to work on the side.

      Pimpin’ ain’t easy.

  8. B G   2 years ago

    Was there never any kind of Judicial test of Obama's "Operation Choke Point" to establish that this kind of abuse violates the Constitution (and therefore under 14A is also prohibited to the States)?

    I'm no lyricist, but it seems like if someone were looking to update "All in the Family", including a line in the theme song about when the ACLU was about "Protecting the First 10 Amendments" (or was that just Michael Douglas in a movie from the 90s?). Those were the days...

    1. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

      The first 8 amendments; 2 and 10 don't count for the ACLU.

      1. B G   2 years ago

        Neither has 2 for quite some time. In this case, they're only on the same side as NRA because of the 1A issue, which if it were allowed could actually be turned against the targets that ACLU cares about (they've officially altered their stance on what should/shouldn't have 1A protection as well) when control changes hands.

        If ACLU has re-aligned their ideology to match the left-progressive and "intersectional" wing of the Dems, they're likely down to having a selective stance on 1, 4, 6, and 8, and more or less absent on 2, 9, and 10. There was a short-lived revival of interest by the left in "states rights" in 2021-2024 (after 3+ decades of calling the term a "racist dog whistle"), but with Dobbs throwing abortion back to the states now in a way which has created infringement of the one aspect of "bodily autonomy" which they actually believe in that's probably gone down the memory hole already.

    2. PMBug   2 years ago

      Biden admin is rolling along with Operation Choke Point 2.0. They don't GAF whether it's legal, moral or American. Have a look at this report from Cooper & Kirk, a law firm that sued FDIC, OCC & Fed over OCP1.0:

      https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1640494485456003072

  9. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

    '"We don't support the NRA's mission or its viewpoints on gun rights, and we don't agree with their goals, strategies, or tactics," the ACLU posted on X (formerly Twitter) on December 9. "But we both know that government officials can't punish organizations because they disapprove of their views."'

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Also, leave it to ENB to jump past gun rights to something that matters, like porn.

    1. B G   2 years ago

      Just don't ask whoever posted that tweet their opinion on the last couple years of reporting put out by Taibbi, Schellenberger, and Weiss, or anyone else covering what's being called the "censorship-industrial complex", unless you want to hear the term "nothing burger".

  10. Kungpowderfinger   2 years ago

    Is the writer sure this isn’t about the ACLU volunteering to represent the government against the NRA?

    She might want to double check the press releases.

  11. Flaco   2 years ago

    To defend ENB, it isn't she who injected sex work into this discussion. It was part of the NRA's appeal to the have their case heard by the Supreme court. One of the criteria that makes the Supreme Court decide to hear a case is if two lower district courts have ruled in opposite ways on an issue.

    From the story:

    "The 2nd Circuit ruling "creates a circuit split with the Seventh Circuit's decision in Backpage.com, which held that a government official violated the First Amendment in circumstances closely comparable to these," stated the NRA in its petition to the Court."

  12. Phil8656   2 years ago

    I have a newfound respect for the ACLU.

    1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

      That will soon pass.

    2. PMBug   2 years ago

      My father used to tell me about the attaboy and awshit system. You have to work hard to earn attaboys. Attaboys are valuable reputation and character credits. It's real easy to get an awshit though - and, in general, 1 awshit erases 10 attaboys.

      Good on ACLU for earning an attaboy. They've got a bit of work to do dig themselves out of the awshit hole though.

  13. DWB   2 years ago

    Baby-killing or whores -- ENB!

    "No doubt there are conservative politicians itching to shut off funding for groups that engage in racial justice demonstrations..."

    The Klan with a Tan????

    1. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

      "I have no objection to the brown color of your skin; what bothers me is the brown color of your shirts."

  14. AT   2 years ago

    Sometimes I think Elizabeth sits with a deck of trivial pursuit cards, reading random questions about random things and coming up with ways to make it about pimps and prostitutes.

    1. PMBug   2 years ago

      So... sexual pursuit cards then.

  15. freedomwriter   2 years ago

    Another example of a "free" "democracy" suppresses what they do not like.

  16. Miss Ann Thrope   2 years ago

    "No doubt there are conservative politicians itching to shut off funding... There are progressive politicians who would love to take down platforms..."

    Shut off funding vs. take down platforms. There is a world of difference.

    1. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

      We are talking about the "libertarian" that was fully onboard with companies acting at the behest of govt officials in ways the officials were barred to act if it was for progressive ends.

  17. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

    Does reason staff play the game of "how many Sentanced does it take for ENB to relate any topic to hookers or abortion?"

    Robbie "I went to McDonald's for lunch. I can't believe a meal is now $20"

    ENB "i know inflation is so high that baby killers can barely afford the pice increese of their vacuum heads"

    1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD 2: Steampunk Boogaloo   2 years ago

      She really is obsessed with this subjects.

  18. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

    Folks, remember this story when gun control freaks say that only Police and Government can be trusted with firearms and remember this story when Drug Warriors say that Government knows best about what to put in your body:

    WSOC-TV Eyewitness News Charlotte Logo
    51
    °
    Cloudy
    WATCH

    NEWS

    WEATHER

    VIDEO

    9 INVESTIGATES

    ACTION 9

    SPORTS

    YOUR704

    COMMUNITY

    BACK TO SCHOOL

    THE POLITICAL BEAT

    STEALS AND DEALS

    (Opens in new window)
    WEATHER ALERT|Lake Wind Advisory
    1/1

    Former Gastonia officer accused of selling…
    Resize:
    Live Streams

    LOCAL
    Former Gastonia officer accused of selling drugs, using badge to buy guns
    By Ken Lemon, wsoctv.com
    December 13, 2023 at 5:27 pm EST
    https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/former-gastonia-police-officer-arrested-faces-32-felonies/AMIWI5QCVVCVFAUBNN4ZXQ2ZZ4/

    And they even have the damn nerve to require licenses for hair stylists!
    🙂
    😉

    1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

      Somebody please fix the damn Edit button!

  19. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

    World ends; pornographers, sex workers hardest hit.

  20. Equal Opportunity Snark   2 years ago

    For all the tomfoolery in the comments there's an important point here: if you're against guns, your rights to free speech are still at risk. And if you're against porn, your gun rights are still at risk from censorship on speech, too.

    (And yes, shockingly to conservatives but not to libertarians, porn is important.)

    1. Chumby   2 years ago

      Those journalists covering porn stories are called beat writers.

  21. Shoreline1   2 years ago

    In America, you can't trust the courts either. American government is mob rule, with the authority to justify any crime it commits. Go to prison if you don't like it.

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