Dobbs Is Reshaping American Politics
A wave of ballot measures reminds us most Americans are moderate on abortion.

When the Supreme Court ruled in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, everyone knew the fallout—for women, for doctors, for U.S. politics—would be profound. "The Constitution makes no reference to abortion, and no such right is implicitly protected by any constitutional provision," wrote Justice Samuel Alito in the majority opinion. With that, nearly 50 years of status quo surrounding abortion was ended. Dobbs torched the legal paradigm that had governed access across the nation since the Court's infamous 1973 ruling in Roe v. Wade and its 1992 decision in Planned Parenthood v. Casey.
Unsurprisingly, American abortion laws and access have been radically transformed since the Dobbs decision was released. As of September, in more U.S. states than not, abortion access is now reduced, threatened, or barely existent.
In the wake of the Dobbs decision, some red states rushed to pass new restrictions on abortion while others revived long-dormant statutes from a pre-Roe era or "trigger laws" passed more recently but only effective after Roe's demise. As a result, abortion is now banned or severely restricted at all stages of pregnancy in 15 states. In addition, four states now ban abortion at some point within the first trimester, and three states ban it at some point between 15 and 18 weeks of pregnancy.
None of these bans would have been constitutional under Roe, which said abortion must be allowed until the point of fetal viability (around 24 weeks).
Other states have attempted abortion bans but have been thwarted by legal challenges. New or additional bans have been enacted but blocked—at least temporarily—in seven states.
Abortion remains legal until at least the point of fetal viability—and sometimes after—in 23 states, largely in the Northeast, mid-Atlantic, and West.
But the new restrictions have meant some women have had to travel out-of-state—sometimes quite far—to get an abortion. Some who would previously have gotten an abortion did not do so. An analysis by the Society of Family Planning suggests that between July 2022 and March 2023 alone, "there were 25,640 cumulative fewer abortions" than there would have been otherwise.
In addition, new restrictions have made obstetric care more difficult for doctors and women dealing with nonviable pregnancies or health-threatening pregnancy complications. While all bans so far contain exceptions for cases where a mother's life is at risk, these exceptions don't always encompass cases where continuing a pregnancy is incredibly risky. That means some women who may eventually need to terminate a pregnancy are being told they can't do so until their condition gets worse.
Risk aversion by medical professionals here is understandable. Most of the laws banning abortion carry criminal penalties for doctors or other medical professionals who perform them. This may include jail time—life in prison is on the table in Alabama and Texas—as well as fines or the loss of a medical license. Some states also permit authorities to seek civil penalties for violations. In Texas, the attorney general can seek a civil penalty of $100,000 per illegal abortion.
Some bans can be enforced not by the state but through lawsuits filed by private citizens. Texas started this trend in 2021 with S.B. 8, a law allowing "any person" to sue someone who performs an abortion after fetal cardiac activity is detected and authorizing at least $10,000 payouts for successful plaintiffs in such suits. Opponents dubbed it the abortion "bounty hunter" law, and since then, similar laws have been introduced and sometimes passed in other states.
Meanwhile, conservative lawmakers continue to push new restrictions on reproductive freedom—including banning the procedure even earlier in pregnancy, limiting the methods that can be used, and restricting the types of facilities where abortions can be performed. Some show interest in adding more rules around advertising, record keeping, or patient notices—for instance, mandating that women prescribed abortion pills be told the procedure can be "reversed" after the first pill (a claim many medical professionals say is unfounded). Other proposals seek to expand categories of criminal liability, creating new crimes like aiding and abetting abortion, facilitating an unlawful death from abortion (a law meant to be used against abortion pill manufacturers and distributors), and "abortion trafficking" (helping a minor obtain an abortion without parental permission). Some would even establish that personhood starts at fertilization—opening up abortion-seeking women to attempted murder or homicide charges.
Suffice it to say, the legal status of abortion in many states has shifted—and continues to shift—quickly. For many Americans, things seem to be changing too fast and going too far. For others, however, the Dobbs world is proving frustratingly resistant to change.
But one thing is certain: Dobbs' effect on U.S. policy and politics is going way beyond shaping where abortion is and isn't legal. It's wreaking electoral havoc, shifting partisan calculations, and calling into question balances of federal and state power. It's also ushering in a new level of representative democracy in determining the limits of reproductive freedom—along with a backlash to the process that could reach far past policies surrounding abortion.
In many ways, the Roe and Casey era was simpler. But the new world could better reflect the underlying political reality that American opinions about abortion are complex, nuanced, and not terribly extreme.
The Moderate Majority Strikes Back
During the Roe era, it could be easy to forget most Americans are abortion moderates and don't fall easily into a "pro-choice" or "pro-life" binary. Now this fact could be swaying elections—and causing major problems for Republicans.
Poll after poll has shown that relatively few people think abortion should always or never be legal. For most, it matters when and under what circumstances—and they want laws and policies to reflect that.
For decades, politicians could pretend this wasn't the case. Abortion was a convenient frame for criticizing opponents, demonizing them as either killers who wanted to abort babies even as they were being born or troglodytes who wanted to keep all women barefoot, pregnant, and under men's control. But because of Roe and the way courts continually interpreted it, abortion was not something where there was room for a radical departure from existing policies or risk of fallout from taking a stand at odds with popular opinion.
This gave Republicans little to lose by pandering to the more extreme anti-abortion constituents among their base. The policies they pushed—and sometimes passed—wouldn't actually take effect, and no one had to live with the personal, political, or criminal consequences. If conservatives or conservative-leaning independents had some qualms about them, they could rest assured—and still vote GOP—knowing there was the Republican rhetoric, and then there was the Roe-mandated reality. Meanwhile, pro-choice folks could be somewhat complacent, knowing that courts would keep striking down any extreme restrictions on abortion access.
In short, abortion just wasn't something most people needed to have extremely specific views on or considered a political priority. But without Roe, abortion actually matters to voters in a way it didn't before. There are signs this won't work out well for Republicans stuck in the old paradigm.
A wealth of polling since the Dobbs decision suggests Americans are increasingly in favor of at least some legal abortion. "FiveThirtyEight gathered every poll that asked a standard question about abortion — whether it should be legal in all cases, legal in some cases, illegal in some cases, or illegal in all cases — since September 2021, and found that the share of American adults who want abortion to be legal in at least some cases is rising, and the share of Americans who want abortion to be illegal in all cases is falling," the polling analysis website reported in June.
This makes abortion a political boon for Democrats. There's strong evidence that the issue of abortion swayed some results in the 2022 midterms. Democrats credit it with helping them stanch losses in the U.S. House and keep control of the Senate. And Democrats are counting on the issue to give them another boost in 2024 too.
It's a much thornier issue for Republicans, caught between trying to appease constituents and donors who still expect them to take an aggressive anti-abortion stance and the large swath of more moderate conservatives and swing voters with less radical abortion views.
Evidence of this conundrum can be seen in all sorts of places, from the way former president and 2024 candidate Donald Trump has handled the issue to the way some Republicans have reacted to national ban legislation. Far from taking a big victory lap for appointing the judges that struck down Roe, Trump has focused relatively little on the issue and privately opined that Republicans are "getting killed on abortion." When Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) introduced a bill in September 2022 that would have made performing an abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy a federal crime, a number of prominent GOP strategists and lawmakers made it clear they wished he wasn't pushing it near election time.
As questions like the issue of a national ban become more salient—it was a big point of contention between candidates in the first 2024 GOP presidential debate—and state laws continue to come into focus, abortion will likely only become more important in upcoming elections. It could continue to drive Republican electoral losses unless GOP candidates start changing their tune.
A Republican Party in which pro-life politics are less of a focus may have to adapt in other ways too, adopting new strategies to drive religious conservative voter turnout or to appeal to moderates and independents. This could ultimately reshape the conservative coalition and/or conservative priorities.
But whether the GOP can get away with refocusing is another question. Even if some want to avoid talking about abortion, it will be difficult, since Democrats have every incentive to keep focus on the issue. "We should put the right to choose on every ballot across the country in 2024—not just with the candidates we choose, but with referendum efforts to enshrine reproductive rights in states where right-wing politicians are stripping those rights away," Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a Democrat, told CNN in April.
Putting Abortion Up for a Vote
Asking voters to weigh in directly on questions surrounding reproductive freedom helps reveal what Americans really want and will really stand for when it comes to abortion. The result could be the start of a much more democratic abortion paradigm than we've seen in decades—and the ticket to protecting at least some modicum of abortion access in many states.
"Deep in the American DNA is the belief that we should have as little government and as much liberty as possible," writes Elaine Kamarck at the Brookings Institution. "The law's intrusion into the complex medical and moral issues surrounding as personal a decision as abortion strikes at the heart of American's [sic] desires to control their own destiny. All indications are that by the end of the decade the Supreme Court's decision to return abortion rights to states will reinstate abortion across the land."
That may overstate the case a bit. But ballot initiatives related to reproductive freedom have been up for votes in six states since Dobbs was decided in June 2022, and all have come back with positive results for the pro-choice side. Notably, a number of these votes have taken place in largely red states, including Montana, Kentucky, and Kansas.
After the Dobbs decision, Kansas was the first state to vote on an abortion ballot initiative, in summer 2022. Voters resoundingly rejected a proposed amendment stating that the state constitution did "not create or secure a right to abortion," with 59 percent against. Conservatives had put the issue up for a vote as part of a primary election, which trend toward smaller and more Republican voter turnout in Kansas. But voters across the board turned out in droves, with around 47 percent of registered voters casting ballots, compared to 20 percent to 34 percent in primaries generally since 2010.
The 2022 midterm elections saw five states voting on abortion. The more pro-choice position won in all five.
In November 2023, Ohioans will vote on a proposed constitutional amendment to protect abortion access. Measures protecting abortion are already slated for New York and Maryland ballots in 2024, while activists in a number of other states have been preparing or circulating petitions to get measures on their 2024 ballots.
Many of these are being pushed as efforts to "restore Roe." They would institute a similar scheme to what was previously allowed nationwide, with abortion broadly legal in early to mid-pregnancy and bans allowed after a certain point. For instance, the proposed Ohio amendment states: "Abortion may be prohibited after fetal viability."
Pro-lifers in some states, including Colorado, are also working on getting initiatives on ballots. But with the way ballot measures—and abortion poll results—have been trending, the strategy is seen as much more friendly to the pro-abortion side.
The pro-choice tenor of public opinion so far is creating a backlash from conservatives. If this backlash succeeds, it could thwart not just the flourishing of ballot initiatives about abortion but also broader by-the-people lawmaking.
Ballot Backlash
A certain strain of Republicans long insisted that without Roe, abortion could become what it was meant to be: a state-by-state issue. But it's becoming clear—if it wasn't already—that many in the pro-life movement won't be satisfied with this arrangement if it doesn't lead to abortion being outlawed, or at least severely restricted, in their own states and perhaps nationwide. Some are even willing to make democratic processes more exclusionary if it will help get us there.
Whether conservatives were never serious about actually leaving abortion up to individual states or were only serious about it because they imagined that most Americans would support bans is unclear. But in light of the fact that voters keep embracing abortion rights and rejecting restrictions on reproductive freedom, some GOP politicians are responding with attempts to make it more difficult for voters to have a direct say in the issue.
Some of these attempts target the process for getting initiatives on the ballot in the first place, by requiring more signatures, restricting who can collect signatures, requiring a broader geographic distribution for signatories, or raising filing fees. In Arkansas, lawmakers passed a bill that requires signatures from 50 counties instead of 15 to get an initiative on the ballot.
Others target the vote threshold required to amend the state constitution. For instance, Ohio Issue 1 would have raised the threshold for passing constitutional amendments from a simple majority to 60 percent.
After enacting a law earlier this year to end special August elections, Ohio Republicans turned around and approved one for Issue 1—ensuring that if it passed, it would take effect before November's vote on an abortion initiative. But voters flocked to the polls and issued Issue 1 a resounding defeat, with 57 percent opposed—even some counties that went for Trump in 2020 voted against.
More battles like this are likely coming. According to the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center, 14 states have been considering "measures that would impact or weaken the ballot initiative process." And while stopping abortion amendments may not be the sole motivation behind such attempts, it's definitely one, and sometimes the main, driver.
In Mississippi, where a court order froze all ballot initiatives in 2021, a (now-dead) GOP-led bill would have again allowed them—except for abortion-related measures. "The state of Mississippi is pro-life," asserted Mississippi state Rep. Nick Bain on the House floor, while arguing against giving residents the chance to prove it at the polls.
Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose publicly denied that Issue 1 was about thwarting a reproductive rights amendment. He was later caught on video admitting this was his calculation. "Some people say this is all about abortion. Well, you know what? It's 100 percent about keeping a radical pro-abortion amendment out of our constitution," he said in a video shared by News 5 Cleveland and the Ohio Capital Journal.
Pro-life politicians are also finding other tactics to keep abortion initiatives off the ballot or stack the deck against them. For instance, LaRose's office has loaded Ohio's ballot language about the abortion amendment with biased phrasing, substituting "unborn child" for "fetus" and describing post-viability exceptions for a mother's life or health as "always allow[ing] an unborn child to be aborted at any stage of pregnancy" if a doctor signs off on it.
Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey tried to substitute his own fiscal analysis for that of State Auditor Scott Fitzpatrick's fiscal note summaries for 11 reproductive rights initiatives, saying the auditor had failed to take into account the lost revenue from Medicaid funding and future taxpayers being aborted. This left the petitions in limbo, with the secretary of state unable to certify ballot language and groups unable to start collecting signatures. In July, the Missouri Supreme Court ordered Bailey to approve Fitzpatrick's fiscal notes, writing that the matter is "not about the substance of…proposed initiatives petitions" but rather about the limits of the attorney general's authority. State Rep. Hannah Kelly (R–Mountain Grove) and state Sen. Mary Elizabeth Coleman (R–Arnold) then filed a lawsuit challenging the auditor's cost analysis.
The ballot process may not be the only thing under attack in order to stave off pro-choice policies. Some state officials—including those in Oklahoma and West Virginia—have started amending religious freedom statutes to prevent them from being used in legal challenges against abortion bans.
Abortion and the Administrative State
Republican lawmakers and officials aren't the only ones trying to buck the trend of more direct democratic influence and state-by-state differences on abortion policies. We're also seeing some intervention—and overreach—from the federal government, along with attempts to expand or curb abortion access by challenging administrative procedure.
At the heart of these actions is the issue of how much control the feds should have over abortion policy and how much should be left up to the states.
In July 2022, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) said that the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) requires hospitals that accept Medicare patients to provide "stabilizing treatment" that may at times include abortion. "If a state law prohibits abortion and does not include an exception for the health or life of the pregnant person — or draws the exception more narrowly than EMTALA's emergency medical condition definition — that state law is preempted," HHS advised. As part of this standoff, the Biden administration is investigating a pair of hospitals that refused to perform an abortion on a Missouri woman with pregnancy complications.
The Department of Justice told Postal Service workers last December they should continue delivering abortion pills even to people in states where abortion is banned.
But by far the biggest legal drama surrounding federal agencies and reproductive rights involves the abortion-inducing drug mifepristone (and its generic equivalents). Interestingly, the matter is playing out as a debate about the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval and regulatory process, not individual rights.
So far, one federal court has preliminarily enjoined the federal government from taking any action to make mifepristone less available in states that brought a lawsuit about its status. The case is about mifepristone being singled out "for excessive regulation," said the office of the Oregon attorney general. "Despite evidence that the drug is safer than Tylenol, burdensome restrictions on prescribing and dispensing mifepristone…expose patients to needless anguish and confusion" and "subject providers to bureaucratic oversight that makes providing care much more complicated than necessary."
Meanwhile, another federal court decision would suspend mifepristone approval entirely. That decision comes in a case brought by the Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, which challenged the FDA's 2000 approval of mifepristone along with its later generic approval and loosening of restrictions on abortion pill prescriptions. In April 2023, U.S. District Judge Matthew J. Kacsmaryk held that the FDA erred in approving mifepristone originally and erred in its later challenged actions too; he ordered access to the drug suspended. The Biden administration appealed Kacsmaryk's ruling, and that same month, the U.S. Supreme Court granted the government's request for a stay "pending disposition of the appeal."
In August, the 5th Circuit held 2–1 that parts of Kacsmaryk's ruling should stand and parts should not. "We vacate the component of the order that stayed the effective date of the 2000 Approval and the 2019 Generic Approval," wrote Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod for the majority. However, the court upheld the parts of Kacsmaryk's ruling related to later FDA directives (including the FDA's actions allowing abortion pills to be prescribed virtually and shipped by mail and its 2016 guidance saying lower doses could be prescribed).
For now, nothing will change as the Supreme Court reviews the matter and decides whether to take up the case. The Biden administration and pharmaceutical company Danco Laboratories have both asked the Court to hear the case.
Even as the battle over abortion pill approval and prescribing plays out in the courts, the FDA has continued to loosen prescribing restrictions around abortion drugs and around birth control—proving that the Dobbs world will spur some opportunities for federal deregulation too.
In January, the FDA paved the way for retail pharmacies to dispense abortion pills. (Until 2021, they had to be prescribed and dispensed at a specially certified doctor's office and after that, only through mail-order pharmacies, since the FDA had failed to put in place a system for certifying retail pharmacies to dispense them.) The FDA also recently approved the first hormonal birth control pill for over-the-counter sale.
New Laws, New Lawsuits
While some challenges to abortion laws are playing out at the federal level, more of them are taking place in state courts. Lawsuits out of at least eight states have challenged abortion bans on religious freedom grounds. Another common tack is arguing that abortion bans violate privacy rights enshrined in state constitutions. Still others have asserted that bans violate women's right to self-preservation.
These challenges highlight one way the Dobbs landscape around abortion looks much like the pre-Dobbs landscape: It involves a lot of bills—of varying degrees of constitutionality—being introduced by state legislatures and, when passed, swiftly battled out in state courts.
But while lawsuits over abortion laws have long been common, the legal onus is now different, with more burden on abortion access advocates to prove that laws should not be allowed than on anti-abortion advocates to prove that they should be. Even as some of these laws are challenged in court and put on hold by judges, they can create a chilling effect on the provision of abortion in states that enact them.
So far, state supreme court rulings on abortion bans have been mixed. North Dakota's Supreme Court ruled in March that the state constitution implicitly protects the "right to obtain an abortion to preserve the woman's life or health." Oklahoma's Supreme Court struck down its bounty hunter laws in May, holding that they were unconstitutional because they conflicted with a decision saying that the state constitution protects an "inherent right of a pregnant woman to terminate a pregnancy when necessary to preserve her life." Meanwhile, the Idaho Supreme Court said in January that its state constitution does not protect abortion. And in Indiana—the first state to pass tighter restrictions on abortion after the Dobbs decision was handed down—the state Supreme Court said in June that its constitution permitted a law banning abortion in almost all cases.
In South Carolina, Supreme Court rulings have been mixed. In January, the court struck down a six-week abortion ban, saying it placed an "unreasonable restriction upon a woman's right to privacy." But the state's legislature tried again in May, passing a similar ban with small tweaks. That measure returned to a South Carolina Supreme Court in which the author of the January ruling—Justice Kaye Hearn, previously the only woman on the court—had since retired. This time around, the court upheld the ban.
A lot of legal battles have been playing out over so-called "heartbeat laws," which ban abortion as soon as fetal cardiac activity can be detected (around six weeks of pregnancy—which means four weeks after conception and about two weeks after a woman would miss her first period). The vast majority of U.S. abortions take place within the first trimester—under 8 percent occur after 13 weeks of gestation, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)—but most of these do take place after six weeks. CDC data show that between 2010 and 2019, some 62.5 percent to 66 percent of abortions took place after six weeks.
State court rulings on heartbeat laws so far have been varied, with some allowed to take effect as legal challenges play out and others halted for the time being.
For instance, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a six-week ban into law in his state in April. But it will only take effect if a 15-week ban currently being challenged is upheld. That case turns on whether the Florida Constitution's privacy clause protects the right to an abortion.
An Opportunity in Disguise
In the Dobbs world, the future of abortion will almost certainly continue as a multifront battle—playing out in statehouses and courthouses, electoral politics, citizen-led initiatives, backlash to these initiatives, and attempts by federal agencies to set nationwide policy by novel means. Which of these avenues becomes the most influential remains to be seen.
For now, however, it's a world in which voters are starting to gain unprecedented power to determine abortion policy, both through the candidates they vote for and via direct referendums on questions related to reproductive rights.
Dissatisfaction with how voters use this power threatens to undermine it—along with democratic processes more broadly.
But if that can be avoided, we might start to see American abortion politics and policies better reflect the reality that most people in the U.S. aren't extremely pro-life or extremely pro-choice. They recognize the moral questions surrounding abortion aren't one and the same with the legal questions. They overwhelmingly differentiate between abortions that occur early and later in pregnancy. They support limits but also want to avoid substituting the judgment of politicians for the judgment of doctors and families in tough situations. They're wary of giving the state too much power to pry into people's reproductive lives.
The paradigm laid out in the Roe ruling attempted to grapple with some of this. But it also left citizens and their elected officials with little control over what is, no matter where you come down on it, a very serious and salient issue. In many ways, the Roe regime was simpler than where we find ourselves now. It was also less democratic.
The Dobbs decision was widely portrayed as a death knell for reproductive freedom in this country, and the past year has certainly offered up all sorts of incursions on this freedom. But it's also opening up new opportunities for supporters of legal abortion—who make up the majority of Americans—to turn their policy preferences and moral intuitions into political reality. This new reality has the chance to more accurately reflect American beliefs—if officials let it.
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Tl;dr
The world has not ended since Dobbs, and the people within the states are addressing the question of abortion themselves.
I guess Justice Alito was right. We really can trust the people to work out for themselves what they want vis a vis abortion.
Let people find their own solutions? What kind of fascist are you?
Devolved central authority is the worst kind of authoritarianism.
THIS is why ALL powers must be assigned to, and STAY with The One True Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer! The common vermin can TWAT be trusted with these VAST powers! The common vermin AND the Ruling Perfect Ones have only ONE thing in common, and THAT is, that they must ALL stay in their assigned positions! God told me so, just the same ass God told The One True Marxist Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer that the Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells have God-given souls, and rights!
Who does it better?
Hank? or Sqrlsy?
Depends on what you need. Want something libertarian translated into inane gibberish? Hank's your man. Need your toilet tongue bathed? You need Sqrlsy.
Looks like sqrsly drew the short straw for worst takes from Jeff today.
But who uses more intoxicants?
I think they both manage their output without chemical assistance.
SQRLSY might be more entertaining when he is off his meds.
I'm making $90 an hour working from home. I never imagined that it was honest to goodness yet my closest companion is earning 16,000 US dollars a month by working on the connection, that was truly astounding for me, she prescribed for me to attempt it simply. Everybody must try this job now by just using this website... http://www.Payathome9.com
Right up there with populism, where candidates promise the voters what they want.
The added bonus of dem legislatures and groups trying to write such vague constitutional measures to hide abortion to birth inside state constitutions that will totally never backfire due to vague language.
No joke. ENB is hardly a riveting writer in short articles. This novella got tired quickly.
This must have been what she was doing for the last month.
Elizabeth “One Note” Brown writing for Liberteen Magazine.
Liberteen Magazine
I'm stealing that.
Please do.
Nicely done. I would even call it inspired. I am stealing that one too.
Another possibility is that she was bugging out from safehouse to safehouse to avoid Mike’s stalking.
I'm starting to wonder if Mike was ENB.
There is almost no question.
Or is ENB really Mike? A man pretending to be a woman pretending ding to be a man. Like a retarded version of Victor/Victoria.
Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to severely constrict these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
(Etc.)
See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/
(And Asshole Extraordinaire will NEVER take back its' totalitarian bullshit!!!! 'Cause Asshole Extraordinaire is already PERFECT in every way!!!)
Remember to click the spamflag beside every Sqrlsy copypaste job, folks.
Reason has ignored the spamflag for years now. It won't affect Sqrlsy's ability to post and it won't come back on you or him.
What it will do is hide irrelevant garbage, improves thread readability and defeats his heckler's veto.
The mute button automates this process.
^ This.
I dislike the mute button because I feel like I’m censoring people, with the spamflag I have seen their post and decided it’s of no value to revisit.
Leftists aren't people
Also, this.
They have no souls, so they are not really human.
I have already witnessed that nothing Sqrlsy posts is of value, so I save myself the effort of clicking the button each time. Computers are supposed to be labor saving devices, after all... 😉
I really do hate it when my browser signs me out and I end up running across the gibberish that he posts.
It happens a lot on mobile, but fortunately there's usually a spam comment at the top so I end up looking and seeing the "Login to reply" notification.
Indeed. It came in just after Rev. Artie in my block list.
Other than the commercial spam-bots, these same names are the only two on my list.
The State Regulating your wife's pregnancy =
"can trust the people to work out for themselves".
^^^ Some massive BS Propaganda right there ^^^
Abortion has two victims;Mother and Child,the mother will regret her terrible decision until the days she dies.
Abortion is the most horrible of crimes and I believe it underpins the lack of morality in the world today.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1721137719504486499?t=fRyeftSgQTffinfu8YBgwg&s=19
Just consider how much Americans hate and distrust the country's leading institutions when Trump -- indicted on felony charges in 4 different jurisdictions -- leads Biden this way in key swing states.
Americans understand DOJ and media are hopelessly politicized and corrupted:
[Link]
From the comments:
I’m not sure how prepared Americans are for the role mis/disinformation reporters are going to play in this and every other future election. If you work at the DOJ or NBC News, how else do you rationalize this and still believe you’re doing something meaningful with your life?
Are you kidding? They know what's best for us and are doing God's Work leading us to it.
Are you talking about the Chocolate Jesus?
Well, his followers, at any rate. But yeah, he has that attitude as well.
They aren’t after meaning. They are after unipolar control and a paycheck. Similar to employees in the MIC posting on social media about increasing wages, higher stock prices, and dividends.
The useful idiots who think moderate climate change is an extinction level event or who think Palestinian terrorists are killing babies and raping girls because they have been “colonized” are searching for meaning in their lives, since they have abandoned the traditional sources of meaning such as family and religion.
I think Bill Maher said it best (words I never thought I'd ever write) this Friday:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/11/04/bill_maher_western_civilization_is_what_gave_the_world_every_liberal_precept_that_liberals_are_supposed_to_adore.html
The Marquis de Lafayette was a hero in three different revolutions against tyrannical monarchies. A noble who risked everything for the fight for liberty three different times, despite his privilege and power as a noble being decreased as a result of his actions. But these are often the same type of idiots that destroyed a statue of Colonel Heg, a stout abolitionist, an immigrant who served in the Wisconsin legislature as a free soil candidate, who died leading the 15th Wisconsin Volunteer Regiment against the Confederates.
Oops posted on wrong thread.
did Maher at least end with a gratuitous non sequitur swipe at republicans? I’ve been noticing links to his generally good takes on a few subjects always ending with the equivalent of “oh yeah, and Republicans are evil and the worst choice for everybody”
He is trying to take down the woke crazies in the Dem party--- trying to dissociate them from the Dems in everyones mind but in the end they ARE HIS party - they are him... because he WILL vote for them.
His hatred of religion and republicans [somtehing about the letter R?] makes him blind to the fact that in the end these crazies do represent him... he chooses them.
Yeah, he does but it is par for the course, however, his take on enlightenment and western civilization really needs to be said to the left. Often and loud.
Um... Republican and National Socialist coercive eugenic race suicide fears enslave women again? (https://bit.ly/3ylIixV)
Girl bulliers gonna git you. You senile old bitch.
His bigger blind spot might be around the fact that all the leftist "atheists" are actually every bit as deep into their faith (with an equal absence of empirical proof) in "progressive" economics, and increasingly a take on biology rooted in trans-activist dogma as any "evangelical" christian. The US left even seems to believe against all actual facts that they're actually trying to copy "scandanavian" successes (except for the Swedish covid death-cult who stopped the country from destroying the mental and educational health of a generation of kids in order to not ultimately save any meaningful number of lives during the pandemic).
It doesn't matter - - - - - - -
This is the Reason comments section.
People would back a can of tomatoes over Biden at this point. Which is why I suspect Gavin Newsom will be the candidate. He just has to figure out how to get VP Harris out of the way gracefully.
The only one with a chance to beat Trump is Michelle Obama.
Hmm...
Traveling far out of state for an abortion...
Waiting 3-10 days to pick up a firearm...
I'm not seeing a difference.
Regulate nothing but abortion.
Regulate everything but abortion.
Pick one?
The cultural right has a lot more than abortion that they're looking to regulate.
My leftist (single-issue voter on abortion, no less) friends as to why they claim to be fighting for a general right to "bodily autonomy" but also support restrictions on virtually every choice one can make about their body other than the reproductive system. Abortion is somehow still important to protect when the woman is in early stages of labor, but nobody "needs" to be allowed to drink a big-gulp, or eat food cooked with salt at a restaurant; the closest to an explanation for this I've ever got is "it's just different", I don't have the stones to even bring up questions around vax/mask mandates, or the demonstrators around Dobbs who had "Vacine Mandates NOW1" written on one side of their sign and "USA out of my Uterus" on the other side.
Hey conservatives!!! How about a “Grand Compromise”? Y’all give up your “abortion boners”, in exchange for lib-tards giving up their “gun boners”?
This looks like a prime opportunity for me to explain a few things I’ve learned on this planet, while becoming a geezer. A few things, that is, about human nature, and excessive self-righteousness, tribalism, the “rush to judge” others, and the urge to punish.
“Team R” politician: “The debt is too large, and government is too powerful. If you elect ME, I will FIX that budget-balance problem SOON! But, first things first! THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE GETTING ABORTIONS!!! We must make the liberals CRY for their sins! AFTER we fix that RIGHT AWAY, we’ll get you your budget balanced and low taxes!”
“Team D” politician: “The debt is too large, and I’ll get that fixed soon, I promise you, if you elect ME! First, the more important stuff, though: THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE OWNING GUNS!!! We must PROTECT the American People from guns and gun-nuts!!! AFTER we fix that RIGHT AWAY, we’ll get our budgets balanced!”
And then we gripe and gripe as Government Almighty grows and grows, and our freedoms shrink and shrink. And somehow, the budget never DOES get balanced!
Now LISTEN UP for the summary: Parasites and politicians (but I repeat myself) PUSSY GRAB US ALL by grabbing us by… Guess what… by our excessive self-righteousness, tribalism, the “rush to judge” others, and the urge to PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH those “wrong” others! Let’s all STOP being such fools, and STOP allowing the politicians OF BOTH SIDES from constantly pussy-grabbing us all, right in our urge to… Pussy-grab the “enemies”, which is actually ALL OF US (and our freedoms and our independence, our ability to do what we want, without getting micro-managed by parasites)!!!
Shorter and sweeter: The pussy-grabbers are actually pussy-grabber-grabbers, grabbing us all in our pussy-grabbers. Let us all (as best as we can) AMPUTATE our OWN nearly-useless-anyways pussy-grabbers, and the pussy-grabber-grabbers will NOT be able to abuse us all NEARLY ass much ass these assholes are doing right now!
"Hey conservatives!!! How about a “Grand Compromise”? Y’all give up your “abortion boners”, in exchange for lib-tards giving up their “gun boners”?"
So you'll stop grabbing guns if we let you keep killing kids?
Twat, do You TWAT udder-stand, I favor abortion rights AND gun rights! (Maybe REMOVE the Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells from the womb, favoring property rights of the land-lady who wants to evict them, while still briefly keeping the Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells alive, and then SHOOT them with a gun!)... Appeal to BOTH sides here!
I'd take that compromise. I don't actually object to the left murdering their own children. Hell, I'd give them entirely free reign on each other up past retirement age. We can use them as compost.
I never understood the rights obsession with keeping leftists from replacing themselves. I never understood why they wanted poor women to have lots of kids. If you don't like abortion, don't have one. The worst thing we can do is give government power over our bodies.
I never got why people only accuse poor people of having abortions.
It's racism, mostly.
"I never understood the rights obsession with keeping leftists from replacing themselves."
No child is born a progressive race-baiting trans activist.
That's what public education is for.
"The worst thing we can do is give government ****power**** over our bodies."
+100000; Well said.
Oddly youre giving the power over another individuals body.
You can never account for that fact, why you ignore that fact.
Can someone with power of attorney decide to kill the healthy person they are in charge of? Same logic.
No I'm not because nothing about your unicorn fairy-tales survives as an individual. Thus the very 'viable' word used in Roe v Wade.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/individual
3: existing as a distinct entity : separate
This isn't rocket science. It's just dismissing imaginary fantasy-land for blatant reality and well justified when gov-guns are the weapon of enforcement.
From your own link:
1a: a particular being or thing as distinguished from a class, species, or collection: such as
(1): a single human being as contrasted with a social group or institution
(2): a single organism as distinguished from a group
b: a particular person
2: an indivisible entity
3: the reference of a name or variable of the lowest logical type in a calculus
All those definitions apply to a fetus with the exception of #3. Humanity isn't determined by your location.
and in the end the baby in the womb is a distinct human life.
its an early stage one.... that's all
Exactly. There is no scientific argument. They resort to essentially the theology of the magic birth canal in order to deny the fetus has a separate DNA structure from the mother.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (fetal ejection)
You're supporting gov-gun forced reproduction.
It's as simple as that. I really doesn't matter if you !!!-believe-!!! it's an individual or not if you cannot ALLOW it to be an individual.
You Pro-Life Wack-jobs entirely defeat any argument you ever make because you (listen up here) YOU won't let your argument actually escape into a reality.
You're all just puff pieces of imaginary creatures.
There is no scientific argument.
That's correct. This is an ethical and philosophical disagreement. "The science" can't settle it.
"and in the end the baby in the womb is a distinct human life"
and in the end the Woman is a far-more distinct human life.
NOT an incubator slave for the Pro-Life mobsters.
Your ?baby? propaganda BS is the only BS of your entire case and since you cannot deliver an *ACTUAL* baby pre-viable your case is dead in the water.
“There is no scientific argument. That’s correct. This is an ethical and philosophical disagreement. “The science” can’t settle it.”
That’s not entirely correct. Today’s propaganda “the science” can’t and never has been anything but propaganda. In the good old day’s “science” was the discovery of *reality* and nothing would discover that reality required for *real* “science” more than fetal ejection. Is it a person at this point in time? Fetal Ejection … discovery complete. As well as taking the so-called 'killing' out the equation (Pro-Life's demands) and establishing the Individual Liberty (Pro-Choice demands).
It should be a slam dunk. Except that discovery of *reality* might destroy the unicorn fairy-tales of the Pro-Life mobsters so "BAN" that option is actually what they're lobbying for.
It should tell you something about your argument that you have to deny all of science to defend your argument.
And here all along I thought it was the left that constantly used "the science" instead of *reality* to base their Power-mad government ideology on.
Can someone with power of attorney decide to kill the healthy person they are in charge of?
If "the healthy person" were inside the "someone"'s body literally drinking their blood, then of course "someone" would have the right use deadly force to stop them. Of course, the surreality of that image illustrates the absurdity of analogizing pregnancy to any other human relationship. Pregnancy is an utterly unique situation requiring its own rules.
Not really, since they don't drink their blood, the placenta (which is a fetal organ BTW) does extract nutrients from the blood, but so do mammary glands, and those are definitely the mothers organs. In fact, it is more taxing on the body caring for our young after birth than during pregnancy, since billions of years of evolution have occurred to reduce the impact of pregnancy on placental mammals.
So you see human offspring as vampires? That’s deeply disturbed.
they have to be dehumanized [or monster-ize] to make dismembering them in the womb more palatable to one’s conscience
If you're going to take the position that an embryo is just another citizen and that therefore the relationship between an embryo and the woman hosting it can be judged by the same rules and standards that govern other human relationships, then an unwelcome embryo in a woman's
body must be seen as an attacker and parasite, against whom she has the right of self-defense. As I said above, I find that position absurd. Pregnancy is a unique condition requiring unique rules and standards. Considering it to be just another relationship between two individuals ignores reality and leads to absurd conclusions, such as that an embryo is a vampire.
Me either,they are killing Black babies who'd be on welfare and likely supporters.
What 'kids'?
The ones with a unique DNA brought to life by the actions of the parents.
Oh like that distinct DNA on my blood sample test tube? Is that a 'baby' too? F'En ridiculous.
You really are an idiot. You are the weakest link, goodbye.
Sophistry is all they have.
A human fetus is an undeniable individual and is also undeniably biologically human. Every biology and medical textbook on the planet says so. So they have to play games with terminology and lawyer definitions so they don't sound like monsters.
My favorite is when he compared unborn children to finger nails.
you know - he's actually okay on other subjects...
just something about his baby killing abortion boner that makes him crazy.
Yeah, it makes it hard to take him serious on other issues though.
Actually, sophistry requires some resemblance to logic and intelligence, which his posts on abortion never contain.
"A human fetus is an undeniable individual and is also undeniably biologically human."
So twat, Twat? A mouse fetus is an undeniable individual and is also undeniably biologically mousy!
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?). Also, the unwillingness to answer questions is strongly indicative of authoritarianism. At the root here is the unmistakable attitude of “Because I said so, peons! Do NOT question your Rulers!”
See http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc117957741 for more...
Don't worry. Many liberals I know are loudly against killing mice, and squirrels. But human abortion is still a sacrament.
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell?
QUESTIONS THAT THE SQRLSY’S WON’T EVER ANSWER: How long does a fertilized human egg cell last before cellular division begins? How many hours until it becomes billions of bone, liver, stomach, skin, muscle and nerve cells?
Serious question, Sqrlsy. Did you attend highschool?
Who gives a shit?
Who gives a shit about THE HUMAN RACE DEVOLVING INTO HAREM-FIGHTING BEASTS LIKE ELEPHANT SEALS?
THE “LYING LOTHARIO” PROBLEM: Well, a lot of pro-lifers are men, and I would bet that even those pro-lifers who are women? Very few of them have found themselves in the following shoes: Lying Lothario endlessly says “Love ya, babe, Love-ya, Love-ya, Love-ya, NOW can I get down your pants?” After she falls for him and he gets her pregnant, the abuse (from him) begins, and she finds out that he has 7 other “Love-ya, Babe, my One and Only” babes on the side, 4 of them also pregnant by him! So abortion is “veto power” against scumbucket men. If these behavioral genes get passed on and on, humans will evolve into something like elephant seals, where the men most skilled at lying and fighting off the other lying men, get a harem of 40 babes, and the rest of the men get nothing (other than caring for the resulting babies)! So abortion is empowering women to fight off this sort of thing… And reserve their baby-making powers for men who are less lying scum, and will actually make good fathers to the children.
So they want to “capitally punish” the “offenders” (abortion-providing doctors, so as to “dry up” the sources for safe abortions), while they have never been in the above-described (lied-to female) shoes! Willfully blind self-righteousness, basically…
Or maybe some of the anti-abortion men fantasize and lust after being the elephant-seal-like men who can gather the baby-making powers of a harem of 40 lied-to women, under the new scheme of things?
I am glad that SOME you oppose theft. Theft by deception is also theft; I hope you can see that! When a severely lying Lothario-type dude (as described above) appropriates the baby-making powers of a deceived young woman, that, too, is theft! Abortion is anti-theft, when a deceived woman no longer wants to rent out her womb to a deceptive scumbag, prospective god-awful supposed "father" of a sperm donor!
Those who are anti-abortion unmarried men should be out there desperately courting women who have already been deceived by scumbucket men, and volunteering to raise these unborn children (who are NOT your biological offspring), to fend off a HUGE root cause of abortion, and to put your money where your mouth is! And married anti-abortion men? Check with your wives; see if they mind you donating all of your spare time and money to helping out these future unmarried moms! THESE actions will relieve the pressures towards abortions!
Helping out pregnant women till the give birth, and then abandoning the support of said women (immediately or near-immediately post-birth), scarcely substitutes at ALL, for the loving support of a husband or father for 18 years, by the way!
Yes, there ARE fathers who magnanimously raise not-their-children, and do it well! God, Government Almighty, Allah, Zeus, Buddha, Jesus, etc., all please BLESS them, really and truly! And hopefully these fathers will teach their children NOT to be, or to welcome, “Lying Lothario”! Cultural as well as biological evolution can fend OFF the “Lying Lothario” problem! ALL methods need to be brought to bear; this is a SERIOUS problem here!
Abortions outlawed is a "pro-Lying-Lothario" measure, intended (or effectively intended) to turn humans into harem-fighting elephant seals! He who lies the BEST, and deceives the MOST women, into getting pregnant, WINS the genetic lottery! Meek and mild, honest men who would make good fathers? Well, WHO CARES about THEM?!?! (Or their interests in passing on their genes, which affect the behaviors of future generations?)
Are we not men? We are devolving! Devolving (especially if we ban abortions as “veto power” for lied-to mothers) into elephant-seal-like beasts, trampling the already-born babies underfoot and underfin, while fighting over mating rights, rather than looking to perform our duties as fathers!
"So they have to play games with terminology"
That's F'En rich from the land of conception = 'babies' & 'children'.
Ironically no matter how many times you proclaim it "is an undeniable individual" the very process by which it will *ACTUALLY* become an Individual (fetal ejection) is exactly what your trying to ban.
The blood in that sample has your same DNA dumbass.
JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer says that identical twins have identical DNA… So then they share ONE single soul! If “human DNA uniqueness” is the to-be-worshitted end-all and be-all… Can we kill one of them, and NOT be called to account for shit, since that ONE single soul still survives? WTF, silly person! (I do agree that if we see a JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer ANYWHERE, we should feel free to kill shit!)
I meant to write...
(I do agree that if we see a JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer ***CLONE*** ANYWHERE, we should feel free to kill shit!)
The clone would split the soul of JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer, if shit HAS a soul to start with, in the same way that an amoeba splits!
Yeah, that's a pretty stupid take. My blood doesn't have unique DNA, when compared to any other cell in my body, it's only unique compared to cells of other living organisms. So, the fact that blood has unique DNA compared to other living beings, but not to the person whose blood it comes from, is a sign that that person (the blood donor) is a unique living being, separate from other living beings. So in essence his attempt at scientific sophistry (again sophistry requires at least an iota of logic or evidence) just further proves the fetus as a unique, individual, living being.
Each chicken, or even, each CARROT, is ALSO a unique, individual, living being. STOP EATING, fer Chrissakes!!!
It's a baby!!! All DNA must have life protection that voids everyone else's Individual Rights!!! /s
F'En still ridiculous.
You’re obsessive and delusional. Why are you so invested in infanticide?
I'm invested in Individual Liberty (freedom). Something this nation has already shed blood for once before. Funny how you dictators can worry so much about spilling blood from your imaginary unicorns (growing organs inside a Woman) and not even take a moments pause to how much blood was spilled escaping tyrant governments built up on endless BS excuses and propaganda like these.
Except the team R candidates haven't promised a balanced budget in like 25 years. They promised to grow government 6% a year instead of 8% or 10% a year. And the few candidates who did have a short-term (8 years or less) plan to balance the budget, like Rand Paul or Gary Johnson, won less than 5% of the vote in the primaries or the general.
Which of the "Team D" pols has said anything about the debt being a problem in the last 15 years? They should have gone back to worrying about the debt when the "bad orange man" was in charge, but they were too busy complaining that he wasn't sending bigger checks out to all the people whose jobs had been kept shut down for an extra 12-16 months by the "Team D" governors while the "Team R" states were starting into "experiments in human sacrifice" rather than sabotaging their own economies and destroying the minds of their poorer children as aggressively.
I think this could work if we bring back Roe, with the caveat that you have to fill out a federal form and get an FBI background check before you can get an abortion. It seems like a reasonable compromise.
Don't forget paying for a training class, the background check, the license application fee, and not being able to appeal a denial.
Then require all Planned Parenthood clinics to go through the crap a gun dealer does, and shut them down each time they fill out a form wrong.
Obviously it would depend on the state. New Mexico doesn't require all of that, so it's just the federal requirements of paperwork and background check for an abortion.
In New York, on the other hand... I imagine the process will be somewhat more onerous.
I think complete parity seems incredibly fair, here. After all, if I buy a gun, I'm only possibly going to end a life. And realistically, given how many guns I've bought, and how few lives I've ended, the chances are incredibly low. An abortion, on the other hand, is 100%, even if I do think they should be legal, still.
Also, if you happen to not be a resident of the state you're in, you have to go back and get everything processed according to only the laws according to your state of legal residence. And the 10 day "waiting period" which could be dragged out the 30+ days if the state you're in decides that there's some kind of "issue" with processing the background check.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1720999387772719412?t=pKou9S2e3LAaQXW4u-qCag&s=19
Pro-palestine rioters desecrated and vandalized historic monuments in D.C. today. Absolutely disgraceful.
[Video]
Nuh-uh, never happened. (At least according to the main media sources.)
They were just touching up the paint on the fence and the gate around the White House, but brought the wrong color.
Not an insurrection despite vandalism and attacks on secret service. Because. Oh yeah. Supported by the left.
Best video of the day....
Billboard Chris visits protest with sign saying children can't consent to sex change. White antifa leftist confronts him to try and get crowd to attack him. Muslims go after activist supporting transitioning kids.
https://twitter.com/BillboardChris/status/1720919554593845510
Even though he had a mask the confusion in his eyes when the crowd turned on him was hilarious. It had never occurred to him that his beliefs were incompatible. His Open Society paymasters had never explained it to him.
The guy was obviously a complete intellectual lightweight.
Sometimes the gods need human sacrifice.
I’ll bet Fatfuck Jeffy’s carcass could feed a small town for a week.
That was fucking hilarious...with the pro-Hamas Judeocide sympathizer asking the antifa asshole, "What do you identify as? What do you identify as?"
Priceless. What a find. I literally LOL at the absurdity.
Abortion is illegal in Gaza
Turns out a lot of Biden WH staffers were a part of this.
When you realize the 'oppressed' people you're white savioring for don't support your virtual signalling.
Anyone who claims to be "antifascist" but also supports Hamas or it's State sponsor countries really needs to a shot to the face with the shovel of self-awareness.
I've heard that the Islamic council in Iran tends to at least look the other way around transitioning though, since allowing it helps them pretend their claims that there are no gays in their country are true.
I think Bill Maher said it best (words I never thought I’d ever write) this Friday:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/11/04/bill_maher_western_civilization_is_what_gave_the_world_every_liberal_precept_that_liberals_are_supposed_to_adore.html
The Marquis de Lafayette was a hero in three different revolutions against tyrannical monarchies. A noble who risked everything for the fight for liberty three different times, despite his privilege and power as a noble being decreased as a result of his actions. But these are often the same type of idiots that destroyed a statue of Colonel Heg, a stout abolitionist, an immigrant who served in the Wisconsin legislature as a free soil candidate, who died leading the 15th Wisconsin Volunteer Regiment against the Confederates.
This is where I meant to post this.
“You’re saying western civilization like its a contradiction in terms… you’re thinking of moderate republican”
no matter how good his take is on things he always injects his republican hatred….
He wants to not be associated with the crazies but he is… and … like i said above – he WILL be voting for the ‘inclusive group’ that pushes those ideas
Hey Bill... what's your definition of moderate? There certainly are tons of moderate Dems arent there... thats why you need to have these monologues. [hypocrite!]
Yeah, it was good until that last line, I even said as much when I shared it on Facebook.
But then again, a lot on the right consider self described (or even worse media described) moderate Republicans with a similar level of distrust. See Romney, McConnell, McCain, Graham et al for examples.
In the end, anyone who claims party membership or allegiance has to admit compromised moderation, at least in the modern manifestation of parties. And probably compromised independent thinking.
But political parties are inevitable in a pluralistic society (and based on the numerous revolts in medieval Europe and Renaissance Europe, feudalist societies as well, fuck, even among single party countries, like communist countries, you end up with Troskyists vs Stalinists etc). Basically, people are going to group together in either official groups or unofficial groups, based on shared or similar ideologies. That's why the people who state "just imagine how much better it would be without parties" are idiots. No, it wouldn't be great, because the only way to go without parties is with conformity, likely forced conformity. That isn't my idea of great.
This is also why I don't necessarily denigrate voting party of individual, because the reason you belong to a party is because you believe in their platform (or mostly so) and likely don't agree with other parties platforms,ergo you wouldn't vote for the other candidates, unless they were so central/moderate that they could easily belong to your preferred party.
Also, Partisan strife is not inherently a bad thing, it of the curbs the extreme tails. It's only when one partisan group captures to much of the power (and this includes institutions such as the media, academia etc) that you tend to see a rise in extreme views succeeding, or when things are going bad, and the differences between major party are so minute that the fringe can play off this. Both of these could arguably be stated have occurred in the past three to five decades.
Yes, this, one-party rule SUCKS!!!
So then WHY can Trumpaloos NOT see the truths as summarized below?
Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses.
Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?
Claiming affiliation doesn't have to mean the death of critical thinking. It's the deep loyalists who reliably vote a "straight ticket" that are surrendering their agency.
Just being a "registered" whatever doesn't have to mean anything other than maybe wanting to have a voice in a particular primary race. It's the people who already know which party they're voting for in 2028 and 2032, and 2036, and 2040 who've switched off and only pretend to care about whatever issue they might claim is the most important.
But also, political realignments often start with people like Maher having growing discomfort, but the eldest of these groups tend not to change, it's their younger co-partisans that are the most likely to change (see the emergence of the red south). Here's another example from Dershowitz:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12707881/israel-gaza-democrats-alan-
Maher and Dershowitz are some of the last of the generations of New Deal Democrats. At their age, they are unlikely to change their voting patterns (and if they do, most likely they'll just withdraw from voting completely, because they're identity is to tied up in being New Deal Democrats). But the younger cadre are more likely to shift their votes, and their kids more so. It actually has quite a few Democrats worried enough that even unofficial mouth pieces like Politico can't ignore it:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822
100 days of individual rights and personhood, original 1972 plank, abortion, not the whole platform (https://bit.ly/46XPQX6)
All of the shitheads sneering at Western Civilization should probably bear in mind that there is another option if they'd prefer to take their chances with that instead.
https://twitter.com/DolioJ/status/1721001902647758861?t=7LeNSFvnREYODOSlklpwdw&s=19
Ashli Babbitt was murdered for less.
[Link]
That's different because it's only insurrection when you do it.
Don’t fear the revolt!
(insurrection)!
All our times have come
Here, but now they’re gone
Seasons don’t fear the revolt
Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain
(We can be like they are)
Come on, baby
(Don’t fear the revolt)
Baby, take my hand
(Don’t fear the revolt)
We’ll be able to fly
Baby, I’m your man
La, la la, la la
La, la la, la la
Valentine is done
Here but now they’re gone
Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbs
Are together in eternity
(Horst Wessel and Ashli Babbitt)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel
Horst and Babbs both wanted to grab political power through violence, and got back, what they were dishing out. Karma is a bitch! Live by the sword, die by the sword!
Refute it, bitch!
Were there boots on Pelosi’s desk this time?
Dunno, did the guy in his underwear with a hammer come back?
"Staging an assault on the home of the leader of the country" seems rather explicitly insurrectionist.
I wonder how many cities would have been burned to the ground if a an unarmed mostly peaceful protestor back in 2020 had been murdered by police, and how many articles Reason would have devoted to it?
"Asking voters to weigh in directly on questions surrounding reproductive freedom helps reveal what Americans really want and will really stand for when it comes to abortion. The result could be the start of a much more democratic abortion paradigm than we've seen in decades—and the ticket to protecting at least some modicum of abortion access in many states."
Cool. I wonder what else we could put up for a nation-wide vote, and get more "democratic" action. Taxes? BLM riots? Bud Light?
What's funny is this cunt was all in on federal dictates as long as she thought she'd get what she wanted. Fuck ENB.
No thank you, very much.
https://twitter.com/Emmyjewel/status/1721104306030645548?t=h_ECY_h6q6Wt4sMoXFeKKw&s=19
The irony of Germany becoming so anti racist (due to Holocaust) that they’ve unknowingly ushered in immigrants by the millions who hate Jews as much as actual Nazis did.
[Link]
Accidentally on purpose, just like every other Western country.
Thanks, WEF!
Will they claim this is being stabbed in the back a second time?
Irony, or a long-term plan by former Nazis?
---
Alternate snark: People outsource everything these days!
The Moon Nazis are real and this is all part of their plan to soften us up for the invasion.
Those lunartics!
If someone made a sitcom based on space nazis coming to Earth, it could be called Third Reich from the Sun
I would Not See that show.
After those awful jokes, I feel I need a shower.
I think they're a gas!
If you don’t like this humor, we’ll think you’re in the other camp.
It takes some concentration to not lose your train of thought.
*groan*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky
But do the Nazis living under the Antarctic ice cap also support this?
Oh fuck. Now that is the movie I want to make if I win a sufficiently large Powerball jackpot.
"Moon Nazis Versus the Antarctic Nazis"
Clive Cuddler wrote a pretty entertaining book that revolved around Antarctic Nazis, even with a clone of Hitler. But then again Cussler always seems (despite being very entertaining) Tom Clancy with conspiracy theories. Or maybe, since Cussler's career started before Clancy, maybe Clancy was Cussler without the conspiracy theories.
Was "Clive Cuddler" his pen name for children's books? 😀 😀 😀
(I know it was autodefect. Still funny.)
Fucking autocorrect. I would love to see a Cussler children's book. How many different women would Dirk Pitt have an affair with in those books?
Now I'm sad, I had forgotten he died, too.
Also, fuck Google’s text predictive algorithms. I highly doubt I’ve ever typed the word Cuddler, much less on my current phone, and about 95% sure (ergo, statistically significant) that I doubt I’ve ever even spoken that word. Cussler, on the other hand, I’m pretty sure I’ve typed before, since he was one of my favorite fiction authors growing up, and I still enjoy his books ever so often.
Again
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky
There's a sequel that was crowd funded too
They were already taken over by The Thing.
Shrikes favorite free market President attacks the free market.
"But just because an economic system generated wealth and innovation doesn’t mean it guarantees a good society," Obama said. "Because from the outset, market-based systems have been compatible with slavery, caste systems, colonialization, war, exploration, corruption, fraud, autocracy, the poisoning of our natural environment."
.
As Obama listed, the audience applauded. The former president went on to credit Democratic governments for "moderating capitalism's excesses" with a "social safety net." According to him, it will take "young leaders to help us think and act anew" about "creating an economic system that supports and sustains our democratic values."
Obama essentially comes out for controlled and managed markets.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-market-based-system-compatible-with-slavery
I saw this last night and immediately thought of Buttplug's arguments. The poor pedo can't even keep a narrative for a few days.
They will get it right this time.
Surely this isn't actually a surprise to anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention?
It isnt. But the left doesn't care about facts. Just narratives. Shrike has been propping Obama up for months now.
Not really the messaging or intent, but with everything known about the Russian Collusion propaganda and the "Blue no matter how corrupt or literally brain dead." the "Free-markets have always been responsible for autocrats." and the response from the number of Obama Zombies is kinda surprising.
Like finding a bunch of people, today, who would say, "Yeah, Jaden Smith and Jackie Chan were great in the remake of Karate Kid."
Almost like it's a screen for when they 25th JB and put Michelle and Kamala on a ticket together.
Obama Wan Kenobi: [waves hand] Market-based systems have always been responsible for the ills of autocracies.
Luke: I can't understand how we got by the electorate. I thought we were dead.
Obama Wan Kenobi: The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. Welcome to The Dark Side.
Well, Barry got his millions through government--why can't you?
But . . . so have centralized economies.
And mixed economies.
The problem is actions and people - not that the system they do what they do things in is labelled 'capitalism'.
If anything, capitalism, which really didn't take hold until the 19th century in most of the World, led to the downfall of slavery. Slavery existed and thrived under managed market systems, such as mercantilism and feudalism, free market capitalism was a post enlightenment creation, that really only started as a defined idea around the mid-18th century, and most of the western world didn't abandon mercantilism (if we can say they ever really did) until the 19th century. In fact, capitalism was widely associated with liberalism at the time. Incidentally, this also occurred after the big explosion in colonies, and saw the beginning of colonies declaring independence. Basically, Obama's entire screed, like much of the progressive screes, is ahistorical nonsense. Not saying capitalism ended slavery and colonialism, just that these two systems declined dramatically around the same time as the western world began embracing capitalism over mercantilism. But I see way to many people mistakingly conflate the two (most often because they also believe in managed markets, which mercantilism was).
In point of fact, almost all western colonialism/imperialism was founded on, even officially, on the concepts of mercantilism. Since colonies/empires require huge government spending to maintain, which require taxes, which takes away from public productivity, colonialism is really quite contrary to free market capitalism.
I don't know that we've ever had a fully free market, and "capitalism" was a term that Marx came up with to use as an epithet. But mostly it's been mercantilism and various forms of state control of industry and business. (Communism, socialism, fascism, whatever.)
And don't forget guilds.
Guilds (and the plague) directly contributed to the emergence of mercantilism. Pretty much everything modern can be traced back, at least partially often largely, to the plague. Especially in the Western world, albeit not exclusively. The Justinian plague so weakened the Byzantines that the empire was incapable of resisting the emergence of Islam a generation later, which eventually led to the Crusades. The 14th century plague, the Black Death (although that phrase was a much later creation) reshaped Europe (and also Asia) bringing about directly and indirectly the Renaissance, Reformation and later humanism and liberalism. The 17th century Great London Plague and Great London fire made modern London,and also greatly contributed to the English industrial revolution and the first major urbanization of the English population. Etc etc.
Yeah, quite often it our economy has and still works far more like Dutch, English or Venetian mercantilism than Smith style free market capitalism. And when I mention capitalism in a historical sense, I really mean the free market ideals people like Smith were pushing for beginning in the 18th century. But for the most part, what most people label as capitalism is much more akin to mercantilism or even fascism.
Yeah, fair enough. That's why I usually respond to the people bitching about free market capitalism with "Well, could we actually try it first and see how it goes? If it doesn't work out we can always try communism again and hope it doesn't murder a couple hundred million more people, because surely the right people will be in charge this time."
I would substitute progressivism for communism, because that way you can group fascism under that umbrella. And maybe educate a few morons who think fascism and progressivism are opposites.
And non-market-based systems are free from corruption and fraud? And if everyone is enslaved to the state, I guess they're also free from slavery? And communist states never start wars, or colonized their neighbors, and took extra special good care of the environment, e.g. East Germany? Nope, no autocracy in Cuba or North Korea I guess.
Nor in Eritrea, "The North Korea of Africa"!
And authoritarian regimes cause all the same things. Freedom has curbed the worst excesses of all of them. Goddam that piece of crap commie.
And authoritarian regimes cause all the same things.
Save maybe the last one, do inherently. It would be hilariously retarded if it weren’t so backwards and popular. “The real problem with free markets is that it doesn’t smother self-righteous and enormously popular but brain dead parasitic bureaucrats like myself in the crib quickly enough or diligently enough.” – Barack Obama
Uh, OK… [raises pillow]
House GOP seeks to reform FISA and stop the government from collecting phone and email records without a subpeona.
https://justthenews.com/government/congress/house-gop-crafting-major-fisa-reform-block-snooping-americans-phone-records
Meanwhile D.C. capitalizes on a spate of carjacking their policies have bolsters to ask for air tags on cars of all citizens that surely won't be abused.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/privacy/tag-youre-tracked-dc-spurs-civil-liberties-fears-vague-anti-carjacking
I love how "punish the hell out of the criminals" is off the table, but surveil everybody seems to be a solid plan in their eyes.
They just have a different view of who the real criminals are.
Government and progressive response to government failure is to give the same folks more authority.
Why would they punish the criminals who are doing their job convincing people to let themselves be surveilled?
What's the line between "punish the hell out of criminals," and stacking charges with excessive fines and sentences? Because there's plenty of the latter going on.
Examples?
Dude, that's the subject of many articles on Reason as well as one of the things you and your fellow Forever Trumpers keep whining about. Are you daft? (that's rhetorical)
Reminder. Don't call sarc a neocon leftist shit but he can continue to claim others as Forever Trumper for merely being against political abuses of government.
Principles!
Dude, you deliberately misinterpret everything I write and then argue against some twisted thing that I never meant.
If you were capable of honesty you might be interesting conversation.
Lol. I posted your fucking comment word for word you retarded pos.
How do you live with yourself so openly lying? Just pure self delusion?
You missed your calling. You should have been a cop.
A big part of the job is to lie to people’s faces and twist what was said into something that wasn’t meant. They have no shame, no integrity, no principles and no scruples.
You would have excelled at that job.
What lie sarc? Be specific. How is me posting YOUR post word for word a lie you retarded fuck?
You just described yourself by the way.
Lol. You were just defending all the stacked charges against the Ga defendants.
I'm not discussing me and I'm not going to. Please go find some train tracks and take a nap on them.
I am discussing your bullshit politically based hypocrisy. Because youre an unprincipled piece of shit =)
sarcasmic 2 weeks ago
Flag Comment Mute User
It’s just how the system works. The fact is that most people are guilty. Plea deals streamline the system and avoid costly trials. If someone really is innocent, then they can demand a trial. Granted some lack the resources, but not the people in this particular case.
So the fact that a lawyer with deep pockets and plenty of resources pled guilty tells me that crimes were indeed committed.
I mean that was 2 weeks ago you defending politically stacked charges. But your primary principle here is abuses good if used against your enemies.
I'm not continuing old conversations. You can bring stuff up, but I won't respond to it.
If you were actually a principled libertarian and not a pro state lawfare to attack your enemies neocon you wouldn’t be scared of your past statements.
And you did respond to it.
I’m not scared of past statements.
I’m just not going to put forth the effort to clarify or elaborate because you are disingenuous and mendacious, and will continue to insist I mean what you say I mean not what I say I mean.
If you were capable of honesty I might do so. But you’re not.
The hilarious part is the comment above was literally you clarifying. Here was the question you responded to.
R Mac 2 weeks ago Flag Comment Mute User What’s your opinion of DAs overcharging to get lesser plea deals, sarc?
You just can’t help lying about everything.
Unprincipled sack of shit.
That sure got you worked up. Do you need a tissue to wipe the spittle off your monitor?
What got me worked up sarc? I find it hilarious that even given a word for word citation of your comment you continue to lie about it. Lol.
Typical Pussy, running away from what he said. Like when he threatened me then hid like a little bitch for eight months.
The goal is mass survalince, letting criminals do anything they want is the catylist
"None of these bans would have been constitutional under Roe, which said abortion must be allowed until the point of fetal viability (around 24 weeks)."
Which many Liberals apparently don't understand, since they seem to think that Roe allowed unlimited access to abortions.
I think the word "constitutional" is misused in that sentence. Should have used "legal" or something.
Roe never specified the number of weeks. The earliest baby to survive has been 20 weeks. Dobbs sued to undo a 20 week regulation, meeting thr requirements of Roe based on current medical practices. ENB as usual is just ignorant on the facts.
Oh, I wouldn’t say she’s ignorant, Jesse.
I would. Intentionally ignorant.
I prefer ‘willfully obtuse’.
Actually, 19 weeks now, but that's just quibbling. The fact is neonatal care has evolved dramatically since Roe was decided and 24 weeks isn't necessarily the standard anymore.
just quibbling
A clump of cells without a heartbeat and brainwaves is still just a clump of cells at any age, right?
https://twitter.com/SwordMercury/status/1721078491368534159?t=3LDgGhA18vjUC19HHMoq7Q&s=19
Um, so I have a simple question. Which other country in the world has ministers in the government openly talking about dropping nukes on civilians? Is there any other country besides Israel that has ministers in the government just openly advocating for that sort of thing?
[Link]
The US, and I believe recently Sergei Shoigu said they simulated a large attack.
Palestine has promised repeated 10/7 massacres.
So...them.
What government has actually dropped nukes on citizens? Twice.
Didn't both Swalwell and Biden mention that idea? Of course, they meant their own citizens, and not those of the external group that attacked them.
At least one nationally elected official in Pakistan, a member of the nuclear club, has suggested using them to prevent the killing of civilians in Gaza.
As for the US, its official position should be to get out of the ME, get its military out of all other countries, and stop giving a dime to every foreign nation. If individual Americans want to donate to a GoFundMe, have at it.
Russia.
Biden intimated using nukes and F-15s against Americans.
Damn you!
"If you wanted or if you think you need to have weapons to take on the government, you need F-15s and maybe some nuclear weapons."
Our current President and at least one member of Congress, mate.
Try to keep up and not let your antisemitism get in the way.
And fuck 'em. Drop the nukes. Glass the bitches.
I will agree that dropping a nuke on Gaza would be horrifying and insane. The fallout would land on Israel! That's the sort of own goal you really want to avoid.
Plus the SPF numbers required for a day at the beach would be crazy.
And for a while. If they nuked Gaza, it'd really set back any plans to make use of that lovely chunk of Mediterranean beaches. If only the Palestinians would do something productive with it, like turning it into a resort, rather than a complete shithole.
Airbursts - basically no fallout as long as the fireball doesn't touch anything.
LBJ in the corner trying to look innocent.
And Churchill too, who encouraged Truman to use the bomb.
None of these bans would have been constitutional under Roe, which said abortion must be allowed until the point of fetal viability (around 24 weeks).
Weird way to spell 40+ weeks, also, what part of the constitution covers chopping up and vacuuming up a squirming 24 week fetus?
The 4th and 13th Amendment. And your 40+ weeks didn't change one bit because of Dobbs.
There's lots of states that don't let you slaughter full term children now.
Ironically. Ending the slaughter isn't even the subject on the table.
Forcing women to keep reproducing is.
The Pro-Life crowd would sure save themselves a lot of headache if they actually addressed their concerns head-on instead of making a ton of assumptions about it. But of course the Pro-Life mob cannot do that because their very premise is an assumption that dies when it's met head-on.
That assumption would require them to acknowledge a right to fetal ejection.
Does this idiot realize he manages to out-babble even Hank? Incomprehensible gibberish from a fevered mind does not a winning argument make
Yeah, that ‘fetal ejection’ shit is weird. And he sounds like a raving nut on this subject. So obsessed with murdering babies.
Do these idiots realize there pointless personal attacks and propaganda doesn't make their *opinions* correct what-so-ever?
And the 10th left the power with the states. All along.
+14th. No actually it left the power with the people (Individuals) all along which 100% is included in the 10th.
State's requiring a woman to reproduce is a violation of the 4th in reality and the 13th in the land of imaginary creatures.
I’m gone for like 8 months. The first ENB article I see after my return is, you guessed it, some #2 about abortion.
Welcome back Chumby!!! You have been missed.
^ This.
Stick around. Mike's disappeared, chemjeff's been sporadic, and we had an actual libertarian doing the Roundup for a while.
Mike told me he's breaking his addiction to arguing with rude idiots. I congratulated him.
He had a mute list as long as his leg and at the end was only responding to you, Jeff and Shrike. He used to boast about seeing nothing but grey boxes, so who were the "rude idiots" he was still arguing with?
Also, do you two have some sort of secret meet-up spot where he told you this, because he didn't say that here.
Doesn't matter. Point is that he beat his addiction, and I say good for him.
Sarcs stories are always lies. It is quite fucking hilarious. Literally the "this never happened" meme.
And Then The Whole Bus Clapped
Did Mike tell you this during a gathering at a half million dollar house?
Your comments about my past are like a game of Chinese whispers, and you're at the end of the line.
Mike was the big spoon and whispered the news in your ear?
Gross, dude. Stop projecting your fantasies onto me. I'm not interested.
You’re sharing Mike’s private discussions. I’m asking if he told you at the half million dollar sausage party getaway that you previously discussed here.
Lol.
I liked Liz Wolfe doing the Round Up.
We can’t have nice things here.
I would support abortion up to and including ((JesseAz’s age + 1) x 4) + 3 trimesters.
And before anyone gets all serious, that’s a joke.
sarcasmic 6 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Have you ever considered telling someone you disagree with why what they say is wrong, as opposed to telling them that they as a person are wrong? You don’t change minds by attacking people. That just puts them on the defensive.
Oh, it’s a “joke” this time. All is well.
Why do you drop that on every post of mine? You obviously don’t understand what it means and are just embarrassing yourself to the handful of honest and intelligent people in the comments (that excludes your buddies of course).
It should be obvious why I do it.
It makes you mad to have your hypocrisy exposed.
That might be true if you did it appropriately, but you don't. Which tells me that you don't understand what it is that I said in that post you keep quoting. So no it doesn't make me mad. Not at all. It makes me embarrassed of your abject stupidity.
You’re just an angry bitch because you’re held accountable for what you actually said. As a raging alcoholic, you loathe being held accountable.
I'll give you a clue since you seem to be without one.
The point of what you keep quoting is this. If someone says something idiotic the response could be "You're a fucking idiot you idiot!" or "What you said was idiotic and here's why."
See the difference?
Didn't think so.
So no it doesn’t make me mad.
Makes 2 posts 22 minutes apart because he’s not mad.
You really are dumb if you mistake pity for anger.
Just sad your self delusion. But hilarious to us.
Everyone here has done the latter and you openly refuse to click links or educate yourself. That is a choice you made. You want to be the fucking idiot.
When are you going to call out the hypocrisy of anyone on your team?
When are you going to call out the hypocrisy of R Mac who accuses me of lying, while simultaneously lying himself?
When are you going to call out the hypocrisy of Mother's Lament who calls me a fascist, while advocating for downright fascist policies himself?
When are you going to call out the hypocrisy of JesseAZ who never hesitates to call people names and assign positions to them that they don't hold while simultaneously criticizing people who do the exact same things that he does?
Why is it that you only seem to see hypocrisy selectively?
This is another reason why the rude assholes must love this place. They are protected by a phalanx of useful idiots who will defend their behavior, either wittingly or unwittingly.
I mean, people like Nardz or Elmer Fudd can explicitly call for the murder of entire groups of people who are their ideological opponents, and if anyone calls them out on it, it's the *critics* who are called out for their supposed hypocrisy - "oh yeah? well what about that one time when you once said that rude thing? Isn't that like totally the same as advocating for mass murder? Aren't you like the biggest hypocrite ever? Leave Nardz Alone!"
Here you are, one of the rudest people here, complaining about someone else doing what you do.
What a hypocrite you are.
Fuck off, you habitually lying troll.
People are rude to you here because you lie and fifty-cent propaganda and gaslight constantly, and when you aren't doing those things you're calling names and being an asshole.
Try being honest and stop being an enourmous cunt and your experience here might change.
Idiot hypocrite.
you lie and fifty-cent propaganda and gaslight constantly, and when you aren’t doing those things you’re calling names and being an asshole.
you are describing yourself, ML, and your mean girl asshole pals
you and JesseAZ literally come here every day and repeat the latest garbage from right-wing propaganda sources, accept it uncritically, and then spend hours discussing how evil everyone else is.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have cited anything from Salon. How many times have you and Jesse cited, say, The Federalist or Breitbart or Washington Examiner? Dozens of times daily I imagine. This is literally regurgitating right-wing propaganda. And you gaslight people into thinking that it represents some objective truth when it is just more slanted biased bullshit along with the rest of partisan media.
And when anyone comes along to challenge the bullshit, you and your girlfriends harass them and call them fascists and Marxists. All for having the temerity for thinking that something posted on breitbart.com may not be 100% credible.
you and JesseAZ literally come here every day and repeat the latest garbage from right-wing propaganda sources
Which stories didn’t actually happen, fifty-center? Just because your favorite politruk’s try to memory-hole them and don’t include them in your daily talking-points memos, doesn’t mean they aren’t happening.
“How many times have you and Jesse cited, say, The Federalist or Breitbart or Washington Examiner? Dozens of times daily I imagine”
I’ve probably posted something from the Examiner, I’m not sure, I’m not familiar with it. And if I have it’s certainly far less than you invoke Slate, Salon and Jacobin.
But I have made it a point for many years now never to post anything from Brietbart, because I know weasels like you would make the argument you just have. And I never did.
As usual you’re a piece-of-shit liar.
“and then spend hours discussing how evil everyone else is.”
Not everyone else. You.
You want to imprison political dissidents, preach rewarmed Nazi racial theories and castrate children. I can’t think of many more evil than you.
Stop pretending that you’re remotely in the majorty too.
“you and your girlfriends harass them and call them fascists and Marxists.”
You’re a corporatist authoritarian, Jeff. On what planet wasn’t that the domain of fascists and Marxists?
People call you that because that is what you are.
Which stories didn’t actually happen
That's not how good propaganda works. Those stories were not 100% false. They were partly true, but they lied by omission. They slanted the truth to serve their ends. You don't care and push the story as if it were the whole truth.
And if I have it’s certainly far less than you invoke Slate, Salon and Jacobin.
How many times do you think I have posted something from Jacobin? Hmm?
And interesting that you left off The Federalist from your list. Because you DO cite them an awful lot. Even though they are very clearly an opinion site not a news source. You are a literally a mouthpiece for right-wing propaganda here.
You want to imprison political dissidents,
I want to punish people who commit actual crimes. You want to excuse actual crimes committed by your political allies and relabel them as 'political dissidents' when it is convenient for your narrative.
preach rewarmed Nazi racial theories
No, I want educators in the classroom to have the freedom to explore, in a professional and age-appropriate manner, educationally important topics relevant for the curriculum. You want the state to impose ideologically-driven indoctrination into the classroom.
and castrate children.
No, I do not personally support gender-affirming care in the form of surgery. The decision for how to best care for transgender children ought to be left up to parents, doctors, counselors and therapists. You want the state to dictate to parents how best to raise their children in true authoritarian fashion.
I want to free people from authoritarianism. You want to enslave them into a right-wing authoritarian nightmare because you fundamentally don't trust people with liberty. Because if people have liberty, they will choose to do things like put dresses on boys or teach kids about the real horrors of slavery. And you can't stand that. Because if that happens, then in your view Western civilization will just fall apart and then the Marxists win or somesuch. So you must take liberty away from the people 'for their own good', like the authoritarian fascist that you are.
I’ve never cited breitbart. I have cited a well sourced The Federalist. Hilarious a viewpoint of federalism pisses Jeff off so much though lol.
He can never actually dispute any of the facts in articles I post. I dont post opinion pieces.
Meanwhile Jeff posts articles about how awesome dark Brandon is and every other leftist piece of shit opinion piece.
I have cited a well sourced The Federalist. Hilarious a viewpoint of federalism pisses Jeff off so much though lol.
LOL do you really think that the name "The Federalist" means that every single article has a "viewpoint of federalism"? It's just the name of the fucking website. But this is Jesse just gaslighting again.
I dont post opinion pieces.
LOL that wasn't hard to disprove. Here is Jesse, just on Friday, citing an opinion piece from The Federalist.
https://reason.com/2023/11/03/battle-lines-drawn/?comments=true#comment-10302571
(psst: everything at The Federalist is an opinion piece)
Meanwhile Jeff posts articles about how awesome dark Brandon is and every other leftist piece of shit opinion piece.
That is a lie. What I actually did was, I cited one article that had many claims but also said favorable things about "dark Brandon", I specifically said I didn't agree with the "dark Brandon" stuff but I did agree with some of the other claims, and of course the usual suspects around here could not deal with the citation honestly and dishonestly claimed that I agreed with the entire article including the parts that I specifically said I didn't agree with.
And again I would like the people like Jesse to actually cite the number of times I have cited any left-wing opinion piece. It happens but it is very rare. Far more rare than Jesse or his crowd citing right-wing propaganda, which is dozens of times a week.
You really should leave. That’ll show em
You’re a lying bitch. Notoriously so. And the only groups I want to take out are based on self defense, not murder. You want the Marxist hegemony of your democrat masters, and we’re supposed to submit and pretend everything is wonderful. You Sarc, Shreek and the rest of your pinko pedo pals are like the loser at the bar who makes loud vulgar comments and flicks peanuts all night, but cries ‘victim’ the moment anyone stands up to stop them.
You are universally hated here Fatfuck. Not just because of your evil beliefs. You are a lying, sophist, sea lioning shitweasel. Going out of your way to be tedious and excruciating at every opportunity.
Your only real friends are the raging drunk and the unrepentant pedophile. And maybe your NAMBLA chat group.
Sarc knows why.
He is a fucking hypocrite. That is why.
But you are lying. There's no 'liar's honor's where one liar is ethically obligated to ignore the lies of another.
You are a fascist. There's no obligation for one fascist to support the fascism of another.
You are admitting to all the things you do here - but whining because you get caught at it?
Okay, Agammamon, what specifically have I lied about? What specifically have I advocated for that you think is 'fascist'? Give something concrete.
I will not do that. Why?
Because you *wish* it.
How childish.
And the sea lioning begins. Where ultimately Aggy has to prove that water is wet and the sky is blue.
Go kill yourself Fatfuck. Everyone is sick of your shit here.
"When are you going to call out the hypocrisy of Mother’s Lament who calls me a fascist, while advocating for downright fascist policies himself?"
Here's why I call Jeff a
fascistNazi:- Supports all the measures of the NDSAP's Aktion T4 plan.
- Supports all the measures of the NDSAP's Kirchenkampf plan.
- Supports corporatist economics.
- Supports the rejiggered NDSAP racial theories in Critical Race Theory.
- Supports Identarianism (trans and racial minorities).
- Supports Gun Control.
- Supports political prosecutions.
Now, Jeffy, tell me how I'm a fascist.
By your own standard of proof, here is how you are a
fascistNazi:– Supports all the measures of the NDSAP’s Aktion T4 plan.
– Supports all the measures of the NDSAP’s Kirchenkampf plan.
– Supports corporatist economics.
– Supports the rejiggered NDSAP racial theories in Critical Race Theory.
– Supports Identarianism (trans and racial minorities).
– Supports Gun Control.
– Supports political prosecutions.
Ummm... lol?
You got so mad you couldn't do anything but cut and paste.
What, you think your naked assertions deserve a serious response?
I can make bald assertions without proof as well.
"What, you think your naked assertions deserve a serious response?"
Which one wasn't true, Jeffy? You don't advocate CRT? You're not anti-Christian? You don't support Canadian-style euthanasia and late-term abortion? You don't believe from the river to the sea Palestine must be free? You don't support prosecuting Biden's major political opponent on charges invented just for him?
Why would I even bother answering these questions?
If I answer "yes", then you will say "a-ha, I knew it, you're evil!"
If I answer "no", then you will say "you are lying, that is because you're evil!"
So, damned if I do, damned if I don't. Isn't that right?
So what kind of meaningful response could I possibly give to your ridiculous assertions?
The way this is supposed to go, is that you present a claim *backed by evidence*, and then we can talk about the merits of that claim on the basis of the evidence presented.
So, why don't you make a claim, *backed by evidence*, for any one of your ridiculous assertions, and then we can go from there.
But if you're not going to do that, then you are not worth my time. You're just another piece of right-wing trash.
Fatfuck, we say you’re lying, because you lie. You’re just having a bitch fit because you got called out in it.
Mother's Lament - Chemjeffs untermenschlicher Feind
What the hell is this?
You think that *I* think you are a subhuman fiend?
It is the opposite. *YOU* think that *I* am a subhuman fiend.
You are the one who falsely labels me as a fascist and as a Nazi and wants to destroy me as some monster.
I don't want to destroy you.
Again your accusations against me is another example of projection.
No. I fully believe you're human and never said otherwise. No animal is capable of the level of evil you regularly advocate.
I know you are, but what am I?
Mutha the conservative is nazi (https://bit.ly/47hu8Nt)
Did he actually answer even slightly coherently? Would it be worth unmuting him to read the reply? Or is it just a blather of equivocation?
Probably not. Lyingjeffy likes to call anyone to the right of Mao fascists because it sounds scary, but doesn't actually understand true fascism, because if he did, he would realize today's progressives are for more akin to fascists than conservatives.
I mean, the Stalinist communists who founded Antifa in 1930s Germany were using the Stalinist definition of “fascism”, which was “anything that isn’t Stalinist communism”.
That why the official East German name for the Berlin Wall was “The Antifascist Protection Rampart”. They were protecting the East Germans from those horrible fascists in West Berlin who would otherwise invade and bring prosperity with them. It’s just a coincidence that all of the guard posts happened to prevent East Germans from going to West Berlin.
I find it not particularly surprising that Chemleft puts himself in that group. By his working definition, I actually am a fascist, and quite proud of the fact. Not that the epithet from his lips means any more than a four year old's cry of "Doodiehead!"
Neither, he copypasted and then either ragequit or his program glitched.
I definitely oppose the coercion, bullying and enslavement of women up to the day a constitutional individual is born and thereby enters the jurisdiction. (See 13A and 14A, also 9A) The right to drink alcohol wasn't enumerated either, Then the 1932 election ballots put Comstock republicans out on their teeth with no government paychecks. That enumerated the daylights out of beer rights and counted them out of office for 20 years, yet the mystical Comstockist Prohibition party still exists.
Comstock, girl bullying
Drink!
Man, if I drank every time Hank was incoherent, I'd end up sounding like him.
A Hank Phillips drinking game would like that would quickly ratchet our alcohol consumption to Sarcasmic levels.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In that order.
Or go back and read the Tenth Amendment. It's fairly short.
Universal Healthcare for all!!! Life is first!!!! /s
Thank goodness your declaration of independence definition isn't the Supreme Law of the land. Everything would be a life and death situation to thwart all Liberty ever imagined.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1721150765245300854?t=axVlXRGnHJjZtVSApY-Ugg&s=19
NOW - Turkish security forces disperse an angry crowd outside the U.S. military base Incirlik in Adana.
[Video]
Well, that could get spicy...
Elizabeth, out of curiosity are we going to get a “We owe you: 1 amnesty.” summons for the decades-long policy of cheering for centralized Authoritarianism that bred untold millions of deaths under the banner of “Sonograms detect electrical signals” and “Empty Placentas = Empty Delousing Chamber” Nazi-esque propaganda?
Or was the declarations of amnesty owed just for the one silly time you and your cohort lost your head and went completely fucking evil for two weeks?
https://twitter.com/L0m3z/status/1721149368282271853?t=oIaCkxLlGiQqvaDUVPM_9g&s=19
“Before October 7th, we had an agreement that Harvard’s DEI programs and campus culture more broadly would devote its resources and rhetoric to hating white people. But now that Jews are the subject of campus hate, I demand redress. We must go back to merely hating white people.”
Maybe things escalate to the point Israel turns its missiles from Gaza to flatten Harvard, but short of that this turnabout from lib Jews, now suddenly aware of their place in the progressive stack, will be easily placated by narrowly tailored concessions to Jewish interests.
Some big political shakeup where lib Jews take arms with Rufo (let alone a more extreme path) to raze these institutions and go to war with gay race communism is unfortunately quite unlikely. As per Ackman, they just want to turn back the clock a month, not a half century
[Link]
First they came for the capitalists, but I did not speak out because I am not good at making money.
Then they came for the Asians, but I did not speak out because those off-white bastards are smarter than me.
Then they came for the Jews, but I did not speak out because those lefty sons of bitches have always annoyed me.
Then they came for the bubbas, but I did not speak out because redneck hillbillies are not really people.
Then they came for me because I was the last white guy in town.
Quite a few, probably even a majority of Jews today, have both Jewish and European ancestry. (The same as most Amerindians and most blacks and especially most Hispanics). My maternal great-grandmother's family turned out to have a high enough percentage of Jewish ancestry, that if they hadn't immigrated to Maryland in the 1850s from Hesse-Prussia (at the time) they would have been taking a short train ride a couple generations later. My mother said he Grandmother (and she insisted on being called Grandmother not Grandma) never spoke of it.
The Sami blood on my father's side came as less of a surprise because his Grandma did speak about it, we just didn't quite understand what she was saying. She said she was half Finn, which we had interpreted as Finnish, but in Norway until the mid-20th century or so, Finn was how the Sami were referred to by most Norwegians (before it became politically incorrect, it's actually how Finland gots it's name, land of the Finns).
But despite my (admittedly small percentage) of Jewish and Sami ancestry I would still get labeled as white, especially with my blond hair and blue eyes.
On a totally tangent, but somewhat related subject, it's also through my mother's Grandmother's family that we are shirttail relations to the Marquis de Lafayette. Which means I have had a family member fight in almost every single war this country has fought, and considering my family came from Hesse, during the Revolution it's quite likely I had family on both sides of that Conflict, (and probably the Civil War being my maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish originally from Eastern Tennessee, although North-East Tennessee actually voted against secession and and many did fight for the Union).
I do know that two of my parental grandma’s ancestors arrived from the Holstein region, than part of Denmark(the other part of her family was undeniably from Denmark, Zealand (not to be confused with Zeeland, which is in the Netherlands) to be exact), in 1861 and were both enlisted in the same Illinois German Regiment within months of arriving, (their kids married, so I like to think they formed a friendship during the war which later resulted in their kids marrying).
It may already be happening. Progressive whites have alienated working class Hispanics, Asians and to some extent, working class blacks. Jews are just the next group these white saviors are likely to alienate, and it's already starting to occur.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12707881/israel-gaza-democrats-alan-
Why is Sleepy Joe Biden (aja Robert L. Peters) still denying any Secret Service protection to Robert F. Kennedy Jr., despite the fact that he is polling at an incredible 22% as an independent in a three-way race?
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4292933-why-is-biden-denying-secret-service-protection-to-rfk-jr/
A really great question indeed. Of course we all know damn well the answer to the question: because Biden (Peters) is a bitter, mean, spiteful, hate-filled old son of a bitch.
FJFKJrTW?
https://twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1721151066320810274?t=l3F3hMih4VNApgVMh0AC1A&s=19
They made the people tearing down the signs blonde here. They’d prefer that than the actual POC doing it
[Video]
Yeah, actually pretty astounding considering that, of all the 'tear down' footage I've seen, that's specifically *not* *the* demographic doing it.
TPTB are pro hatred of whites.
They just object to it turning on jews.
Yet even now they push the vilification of white people.
Typical white supremicists. Why are POCs underrepresented?
At least the GOP are honest enough to make it explicit that they're not actually interested in democracy whether at Federal or state level when it comes to abortion.
It is indeed interesting to note that whenever abortion has been on the ballot, either directly or indirectly, the abortion rights cause has won, even in deep red states like Kansas.
It makes you think how those states got to be so deep red in the first place if the majority of the voting public in those places doesn't actually agree with one of the core tenets of modern Republican ideology, that abortion is murder. And the natural answer is of course gerrymandering.
And the natural answer is of course gerrymandering.
Gerrymandering can only work if there exists a demographic pre-disposed to the politicians POV, so no, it's not. Like with most things in politics, it's a coalition.
Well, there *is* a demographic pre-disposed to the Republican position in red-wing states, it is just a minority position as evidenced by the abortion plebiscites.
In the past it was a larger share of the electorate, I am assuming, which enabled the Republican politicians in those states to create the gerrymandering scheme in the first place.
So when Team Red was strong in those states, they gerrymandered themselves into positions of near-perpetual power, so that now, when the electorate is not as Republican-friendly as it was, they still retain power.
Alternatively, abortion is not the end-all be-all you think it was to those voters.
Infanticide is very important to Jeffy.
infant – a human child from birth to the end of the first year of life.
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/infant
The BS propaganda is in the repetition of naming it something it is not.
The BS propaganda is all the Pro-Life mob has to stand on.
The overwhelming majority of Americans support neither a total ban nor unlimited abortion on demand up until birth, but some sort of reasonable compromise that makes sense.
Whether that reasonable compromise is 15 weeks or more like 18 to 20 weeks is undetermined, bit somewhere in that neighborhood is definitely where most rational people are on the issue.
Jeff has to lie about this to support his narrative. By the same measure almost no state outside the deepest blue ones have passed abortion on demand until birth. But this doesn't fit Jeff's narrative.
Should also point out that the left hasn't won as many battles as Jeff claims which is why states like Ohio have had leftists try to pass vague constitutional amendments about woman's health to sneak abortion into state constitutions.
It was hilarious to realize that all of this - Dobbs - was because the Democrats went insane over abortion and started talking about post-birth abortions.
They literally ended up killing abortion across the country on their own - there's no way the GOP would have been able to gain traction if it weren't for the DNC's actions.
If they'd left it alone, RvW would still be law and you could still get abortions into the 2nd trimester across the country. We were less restrictive than their precious Europe!
Shot themselves straight in the foot.
That's a fair observation except even more hilarious is the Pro-Life mob didn't even seem to notice or even care I guess that Dobbs changed absolutely nothing (nothing at all) about post-viable regulation from RvW.
The only thing Dobbs did was stripped /destroyed Individual Liberty for whatever politicians want to call 'potential' life and with the way politicians swing such things it won't be surprising if they claim the right for mandatory meal plans under Dobbs.
Well, because it's not a core tenant.
Progressives have never understood their opponents and what they stand for. As you demonstrate here.
It’s not? Are you trying to tell me that Republicans have not been running on a platform of trying to overturn Roe v. Wade for the past 50 years?
You are just gaslighting here. Now that your team has gotten what you wanted, and the public doesn't really like the consequences, you are now trying to claim "oh, that's not what we wanted all along."
And they haven't been running it as a core tenant for 50 years.
Try living in the real world, not the one in your head, hypocrite.
First, it's tenet, not tenant. Learn to spell.
And now you are shifting the goalposts.
First it was "abortion wasn't a core tenet". Now it's "abortion wasn't a core tenet for 50 years". Make up your mind.
From my recollection, abortion as an issue wasn't *as* important to the Republican Party early on, but it certainly became more important as time went on. How many elected Republicans now are pro-choice? It used to be a sizable minority, now it's a bare handful. FFS even in 1976 the Republican Party platform called for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/republican-party-platform-1976
"The Republican Party favors a continuance of the public dialogue on abortion and supports the efforts of those who seek enactment of a constitutional amendment to restore protection of the right to life for unborn children."
So fuck off with your goalpost shifting and your gaslighting.
No.
This is America, mate. Not the fascist nation you want.
So here's your example of your push for fascism.
Where's the fascism? Me telling you to fuck off? You mean only Nazis tell other people to fuck off? Huh, tell that to Jesse et al.
The part where you're trying to police my language. Very hypocritical of someone who tells us they're 'for freedom'.
But only certain freedoms, right? Just the freedom to obey.
I don't want the government to police your language. But I absolutely do retain MY free speech right to go tell you to fuck right off. This is a ridiculous claim of hypocrisy if I ever saw one. So by your insane standard, no one can be truly in favor of free speech if they ever issue any sort of command to any other person at any time?
Oh right, you do not have a standard. This is you being a shitbag.
Jeff wants the ‘freedom’ to murder infants and rape the survivors. As he is a huge booster for increasing abortion and has always championed the rights of pedophiles to globally to migrate here unrestricted, and for government schools to groom children.
And you're the one who said they were running on it for the last 50 years.
I said they weren't.
You lied. Again.
And here you are who is trying to move the discussion away from what you originally tried to argue, that somehow Republicans don’t treat opposition to abortion as a core tenet of their ideology, into trying to accuse me of *lying* when I argue that Republicans have been trying to overturn Roe v. Wade for 50 years, that it wasn’t a literal precise and exact estimation of time down to the nanosecond. News flash: Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973, and yes Republicans have been trying to get it overturned ever since, which was - guess what - about 50 years ago. It is not lying, it is you taking a general statement and trying to turn it into anything upon which to create a pretext to call me a liar by unreasonably interpreting it in the most literal way.
Lying includes an element of deceit. There is no deceit in claiming 50 years when that is the correct estimation of the time interval and no one was claiming to be measuring the time down to the nanosecond anyway.
That is you being a bad-faith shitweasel, is what that is.
And your initial claim, that Republicans don’t treat opposition to abortion as one of its core tenets of its ideology, is laughably false, you know it is false, which is why you intentionally diverted the conversation away into this personal attack.
What a ridiculous little man you are. Why do I even bother.
Republicans don't. Most are 'moderates' on the subject - they were fine with a 'no questions asked' approach up to the end of the first trimester, escalting restrictions in the second, and a hard no except in extreme cases in the third.
*YOU FUCKED ALL THAT UP* by insisting on post-birth abortions being something that could be morally acceptable. Once your Democrats said that shit, the jig was up. *YOU* created this wave of opposition - because you're all fucking insane - and you're trying to retcon it as something that's always been important.
Just because some R's campaigned on it to get some Evangelical money doesn't mean it was a core party plank.
This is gaslighting in the extreme. It was Republicans who imposed pro-life litmus tests on their candidates for decades and decades. Romney was pro-choice while he was governor in Massachusetts but had to flip-flop to pro-life in order to be a national Republican candidate for president, he wouldn't get the nomination otherwise. There used to be lots of pro-choice Republican politicians, now there are hardly any. It started in earnest in the 1980's or so when the Moral Majority crowd gained more and more influence in the Republican Party.
And your supposed rationale doesn't even make sense. If Republicans are supposedly merely moderates on the issue of abortion but are just horrified by late-term abortion, then why not react by just banning late-term abortion and leaving regular abortion intact? Why do we have about a dozen states now, all Republican ones, that have very severely restricted abortion, if - you know - they are all just a bunch of moderates and stuff when it comes to abortion?
Most are ‘moderates’ on the subject – they were fine with a ‘no questions asked’ approach up to the end of the first trimester, escalting restrictions in the second, and a hard no except in extreme cases in the third.
What you are describing here is essentially the framework laid out in Roe. So why again were Republicans so adamant in repealing Roe?
"Lying includes an element of deceit. There is no deceit in claiming 50 years when that is the correct estimation of the time interval and no one was claiming to be measuring the time down to the nanosecond anyway."
It is, however, deceitful to claim 50 years when it was, like, 5. And the last 5 are specifically in response to Democrat overreach. Your side went insane and the GOP grabbed the reins and yanked on them hard.
Which is why you're crying now - because the blue-haired landwhales won't have sex with you. Not that they were doing so before. Or with anyone else.
It is, however, deceitful to claim 50 years when it was, like, 5.
Dude, I even demonstrated that the Republican Party put a constitutional amendment overturning Roe v. Wade into their platform back in 1976. You are just lying.
You cannot admit that your team has been a bunch of religious zealots on the issue of abortion for a great long while now, and now that they have been given a mostly free rein to do what they want, a large number of them have abused their authority and have created if not outright bans, but oppressive restrictions on abortion.
Look Fatfuck, religion has nothing to do with it. Other than most religions happen to frown on murdering babies. Unlike you leftists, who see infanticide as some kind of sacrament.
Poll after Poll has shown the majority of Republicans supported Roe v Wade as well as already pointed out even heavy red Kansas lost the vote on the matter. What the parties political clan was doing really didn't match their voting base.
What babies?
Keep on lying like the BS propagandist you are.
LMAO... Roe v Wade was written by Republicans you know that right?
Actual gaslighting example here Jeffy.
"The Roe v. Wade decision was supported by five Republican-appointed Justices. The five justices worked hand in hand to make the landmark ruling, with Harry Blackmun, a former counsel to the Mayo Clinic, drafting it. After a series of argument, Lewis Powell’s element of the viability of the fetus was agreed, this would become the most notable characteristic of the decision. The Justices used the three-part test in the decision which stated that a fetus could not be recognized as a person until viability. It was on this foundation that the decision was made."
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/roe-versus-wade-decided-by-a-majority-republican-nominated-court.html
My guy, saying that Republicans appointed them is not the same thing as Republicans wrote it. To say so is to deny agency to any of the individual justices.
You also realize the very roots of the Pro-Life movement was from the Catholic Church that was overwhelmingly Democrats religion of the time right?
So?
Again you are boiling down decisions made a small select group as nothing more than partisan politics. Partisan descriptors here is useless.
And somehow this whole thread from the top down is about partisan descriptors yet all the sudden when you loose the argument the argument doesn't exist?
Wft are you talking about?
Justices might be partisan, but that doesn't automatically mean that all their decisions are.
Well, except none of that is true.
Democrats have been predominately WASPs. They're the core of the DNC. The Catholics and Baptists tend to be nonwhite and so are just harvested for votes.
Blah, blah blah.
Who cares? Infanticide is evil. Political affiliations shouldn’t matter in pointing that out.
When you find me an actual case of Infanticide (instead of a delusional crime made up in your delusional head about murdering pregnancies) be sure to contact your authorities as that is already illegal.
I can play that retarded BS propaganda game too. Why stop at conception? Isn't an egg 1/2 and sperm 1/2 a person too? Here's my BS "science".... Therefore all masturbaters are committing infanticide because that's where babies come from!!! blurp, blurp. Do really expect an overwhelming majority of people to buy this BS?
See? Here's one of your lies you swear you never tell.
Could be one of your dumbest comments ever. Democracy to you is a court finding "penumbras" nowhere on the law instead of allowing each state to vote. Fucking hilarious. And I thought swrc already wrapped up the idiot of the day award.
The more difficult you find it to refute a point, the more likely you are to call it "dumb".
I did not bring up Roe. Roe is done. The issue is what is happening now. And as the article makes clear, the GOP does not want the citizens of each state deciding.
Again. A retarded argument as votes have gone through the legislature in half the states. That is how a republic works you retarded fuck. What the GOP has been against is vague constitutional amendments regarding women’s health to once again INVOLVE THE COURTS to decide what the law is. The left is intentionally using vague wording even worse than Roe in these states you retarded fuck.
Instead of clear and concise laws or votes, the democrats in these locations are asking for courts to once again involve themselves.
This is why you’re a fucking idiot.
Ohio is a clear example as the people have voted and supported a 21 week compromise. So democrats introduced an amendment to undo that compromise you dumb leftist shit.
I'm going to disagree here - rights do exist in penumbras. If we're limited to only the rights in the BOR then we're fucked.
The core issue, to me, isn't 'is there a right to abortion' but 'when does personhood start'. Some people want to draw that line at conception, I was fine with drawing it at 12-15 weeks, others wanted it at 30 years old.
The BoR doesn't list rights. It puts walls around the other powers listed in the constitution. You're doing what liberals ask and having the constitution list rights instead of powers. Roe should never have been handled at the federal level.
How do people not understand this?
90 years of commies marching through the education system?
Because some of us aren't stupid enough to think the SCOTUS is the same things as the federal legislative branch?
Humorously this same argument was made during the Civil War by the slavery party which launched the 13th and 14th Amendment. It's well covered territory already.
Well, it does list rights.
And the problem is when you limit those walls to just the enumerated rights.
Enumerated because they're numbered. In a list. In the BOR.
"Roe should never have been handled at the federal level."
Humorously; Roe said that more-so than Dobbs.
Roe ensured non-federal & state involvement till viability.
Dobbs stated that 'potential' life can cancel that assurance.
"when does personhood start" -- and by the very same Amendment that ended slavery (13th) the State shouldn't be able to mandate servitude to another without a crime.
It doesn't mandate it.
People *choose* it.
Mandating that no-exit options can exist from circumstance/location enslavement doesn't equate to a choice.
That's an argument like, "Well he was on my property and therefore he is my slave and as a slave cannot exit my property."
And that's the very underlying problem with the whole Dobbs argument on both parties where one party is imaginary. The ability for both parties to 'exit' that lack of independence.
Free the Mother and ?baby?
Not enslave the Mother and ?baby?.
It is a choice though - don't have sex. Bam, problem solved.
There is maybe *one* state where you can't get an abortion because of rape or medical danger.
If you want to make sex illegal just say so. Don’t build up an entire mountain of excuses to it without actually saying it. Let your tyrannical desires shine like the sun on a sunny day.
No, we just want to keep infanticide illegal.
What infanticide? Imaginary crimes made up in your head?
infant – a human child from birth to the end of the first year of life.
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/infant
Keep puking up that Power-mad BS propaganda.
The sheeple minds do seem to buy it.
And at least you are honest enough to make it explicit that you are not interested in Constitutional or other checks on mob rule or tyranny of the majority, no matter how small the margin or deadly the group decision. If 50% plus one approves slavery then that's OK, right?
Supporting 50+1 constitutional amendment processes just makes society a direct democracy and makes having a legislature redundant. You should not be able to subvert the rights of others with a simple majority. But diet shrike has always hated rights.
+10000000 Well Said by both.
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
It seems the issue of where legislative power over the legality of abortion resides was settled long ago.
“or to the people” … You seem to be missing 1/2 of your own argument or else you don’t understand it’s SCOTUS es very job to enforce the Constitution for the people over the legislative powers be them federal or state (by the 14th).
Roe v Wade did exactly that. It ensured the people were “secure in their persons” (not have government dictating their bodies) while only allowing State’s to legislate the matters after an actual ‘viable’ person-hood occurred. It could’ve and probably should’ve been ruled that fetal ejection was an Individual Right (fully preserving maximum Individual Liberty) and maybe that’s where this whole mess stems from but that’s not the argument being made.
So was Christian Hitler. Former Ambassador Dodd offends poor nazis (https://bit.ly/42CPToD)
Better than the lies the DNC has been spewing about freedom and democracy.
What ENB predicts actually happened before. The Comstock and related laws enslaving women as breeder dams passed in 1873, when the KKK murdered 6 dozen elected Republicans in Louisiana. Northern voters promptly targeted mystical fanatics and the GOP had to send troops to steal the election and un-elect Tilden. Instead of repealing mystical enslavement and censorship, Republicans sold the South back to the Klan. This seated Garfield, who was promptly shot. Cleveland was then elected on an Anti-prohibition platform. So the Trumpanzee Court might rid us of Christian National Socialism while trying to rivet it on tighter.
Notably, the victimology complex was started by Jewish response to the holocaust.
The irony of this post is thick.
https://twitter.com/GadSaad/status/1721151615451705759?t=nvYcXfYZv5SY-bp2rFgtwQ&s=19
As I explain in The Parasitic Mind, the West has been infected by a Victimology Complex. The greater victim wins even if the victimhood has to be manufactured. This is precisely why the Jews are not allowed to be victims even when they are slaughtered. The one who slaughters the Jews is the "true" victim. Islamophobia is the "real" scourge. This form of Jew-hatred is a unique exemplar of existential erasure. You do not have the right to your personal tragedies. You do not have the right to mourn. Even if the Jews constitute a minuscule minority, they are construed as the oppressors, the schemers, the parasites. Billions of people are held hostage to the diabolical whims of 15 million people. The astounding accomplishments of the Jews in art, music, science, philosophy, medicine, and culture is proof of how evil they are. The immigration problems in the West is the fault of the Jews. The financial crisis is the fault of the Jews. Climate change is the fault of the greedy Jews. The industrial-scale mass rapes of British girls largely from men of the Noble Faith is the fault of the Jews (because it is the Jews who let them in). I have been a professor and student of the human mind for over three decades. I know every possible strategy to try to reason with a person and yet I'm unable to penetrate the mind of a Jew-hater. We are living in a very dark period. The cat is out of the bag. [I wrote yesterday that I might remove myself from this cesspool of orgiastic hate and yet here I am.]
Try again, the victim mentality dates back to 19th century Europe. Read about the protests (sometimes rightly so) against America's Indian wars, or the Mexican-American war. For that matter, the southerners loved to play the victim of "Northern Aggression" despite firing the first shots. I just read two books on the Duke of Wellington, by the same author, the first volume was his early life through the end of the Peninsula War, and the second from Waterloo till his death and covered his political career much more heavily (in the 18th and early 19th Century being a soldier or naval officer often went hand in hand with being a politician, so the more things change the more the stay the same, but much more so in that time because a number of active officers also served concurrently in Parliament). At times, some of the political crisis and movements of late Georgian, Early Victorian England involved something that could be labeled a proto-victimenest mentality.
Radical Whigs also tended to like to play the victim card in political debates.
The modern, mass "victimology complex" absolutely started with holocaust guilt mongering.
That's kinda how Israel came into being as a Jewish state.
Sure, there have always been popular narratives built around the gripes of defeated peoples. But it's laughable to try to deny the unprecedented use of the holocaust as a cudgel following world war 2. The "Civil rights" movement jumped right on that momentum and turned the black narrative from striving to prove worth despite discrimination to bitching about poor treatment and then slavery.
Chartism, Marxism and Jacobianism also had strong proto-victimenest roots. Hell, Marxism is pretty much bog standard victimenists. Oh the proliferate is victims of the Bourgeois and Capitalists.
Yes, marxism is at the heart of the victim complex.
But prior to the holocaust, the argument was the the proletariat needs to rise up (assert strength) and overthrow the oppressors. The shift the holocaust brought (and to their credit, Israelis didn't embrace this route early on) elimination of the self assertiveness and replaced it with the demand for pity requiring special rules and freedom from examination/criticism.
So . . . 'moderate' now means 'supports full access to abortion at any time's?
Dobbs had nothing to do with that.
Didn't say it did.
I said that ENB's article is framing the 'moderate' position as the 'supports abortion' position.
Which is par for the course for her as well. Anyone who calls a post 15 week ban an extreme position or a near complete ban is not being genuine. I guess that most of Europe also have near complete bans also.
And lumping fifteen weeks in with seven week bans is pretty normal for ENB.
Or maybe such a *personal* perspective / judgement-call should've never been in governments hands to begin with. Something in the bible about caesars territory. Not sure politicians should even be 'gods' of the unborn.
So . . . *here* you DON'T want us to be more like the civilized Europeans?
I don’t think it’s an ‘us’ issue. I think the USA was founded on Individual Liberty and Justice for all and I fail to see any Justice in forcing women to keep reproducing.
If you want to stand on theoretical justice of imaginary creatures in your mind at least acknowledge that it can’t come about without the expense of someone else’s Liberty and therefore isn’t a ‘right’ at all but instead an *entitlement*.
And gov-guns being used for *entitlements* at others expense is the very curse of everything that has been corrupted about this nation.
Freedom isn't always pretty but it's far prettier than dictation.
Consider this. A teenager gets in a car accident and has his body parts scattered all over the highway. When what's left of him is brought to the ER the doctor says the only way to sustain person-hood is donate all of your body parts.
Who's decision should that be? The voting public's? I don't think it's anyone's place for mob gov-gun judgement. It doesn't concern them. It's none of their F'En business. How about siblings on life support? Does everyone get to vote to keep that life support sustained for eternity against the closest families wishes?
If it can't self-sustain it hasn't got that right to begin with. Rights are inherent not *entitlements* to others bodies by gov-gun forces.
Incomprehensible gibberish from a fevered imagination.
Teenagers who are dismembered in car accidents don’t have their personhoods in question
lol... That's the best you can come-back with? Pathetic.
https://twitter.com/PresentWitness_/status/1721181312961360038?t=UKi_ilNEXBKikjR4g-6e6w&s=19
While it is nice to finally see some of the billionaires push back against the university system, keep in mind that they sat idly by and did absolutely nothing as these same universities openly discriminated against white (and Asian) students for years.
And the idea that some women have to travel far - if you live in the East Coast and states are 10 milesong I suppose driving 50 might be considered a great distance . . .
Uber Aborts could be a lucrative business opportunity.
Ubortion.
Kill sharing?
Omg! Killing a creation process?? Why it's like not having sex or something!!! How dare those anti-sex slaves kill all the unborn souls in imaginary land! /s
And even government funded!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/27/california-budget-to-cover-some-out-of-state-abortion-travel
Ah, so if you live in a state where you do have to drive far, that's ok, because women on the East Coast don't have to.
No, it's ok because you live in a state where what is considered 'far' on the east coast is your daily commute distance.
It's 300 miles e-w across Arizona. You can get from Phoenix to El Centro, get your abortion, and back home before dark the same day.
You can get from Phoenix to El Centro, get your abortion, and back home before dark the same day.
That is true, only because California has rather permissive abortion laws. Most states, not even East Coast ones, have that permissive of abortion laws.
If you were a pregnant woman living in, say, Louisiana, where abortion is virtually illegal, and you wanted an abortion, the nearest place to get one is in Florida, where the law there requires that you first get mandatory in-person counseling, wait at least 24 hours, then have the abortion. And in Florida, abortion is banned after 6 weeks of pregnancy. So the woman has a very very narrow window of time to first find out if she is pregnant, then make all of the arrangements for the two trips, schedule them, and have the procedure done.
So the real issue here, for a large chunk of the population, isn't merely the driving distance, it is the timing and the hassle of having to schedule the trip and the visits in the required legal timeline.
Florida is a day trip from LA mate.
Because you never move more than 10 miles from your basement doesn't mean other people can't.
Maybe she should plan ahead then?
Or is this more of the 'they're too dumb to be able to get driver's licenses' racism of the Democrats?
Let me ask you this. Should abortion be completely 100% illegal? Yes or no?
If no, under what conditions do you think it should be legal?
And if no, under those specific conditions, why do you think it ought to be legal?
It was not legal for a U.S. dry agent standing in America to shoot someone swigging a beer on the other side of the border. Comstock christianofascism held that beer was an existential threat to American laws and civilization, and says the same thing about birth control today. But a pregnant woman is an individual and can no more be enslaved than a beer drinker in wet Canada could be shot, because jurisdiction (the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised). See pro-life murderers (https://tinyurl.com/577eskrs)
Don't deflect - we're not talking about me here, bubuleh.
Is this more of the ‘they’re too dumb to be able to get driver’s licenses’ racism of the Democrats or not?
Are you saying these people are incapable of running their own lives?
"And in Florida, abortion is banned after 6 weeks of pregnancy. "
Here you are, lying again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Florida
"Abortion in Florida is currently legal until the 15th week of gestation under legislation signed by Governor Ron DeSantis. Since 1989, the Florida Supreme Court has held that Article 1, Section 23 of the Florida Constitution protects access to abortion. This means that, despite the United States Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, abortion remains legal in Florida. However, on April 13, 2023, the Florida Legislature passed and Governor DeSantis signed into law the Heartbeat Protection Act, which outlaws abortion after 6 weeks, with exceptions for rape, incest, human trafficking, a diagnosis of a fatal fetal abnormality, and when required to save the pregnant woman's life or protect her health. The Act takes effect if the state Supreme Court upholds the 15-week ban, currently being challenged.[1]"
"So the woman has a very very narrow window of time to first find out if she is pregnant, then make all of the arrangements for the two trips, schedule them, and have the procedure done."
She's got a 15 week window mate. And she's got even longer than that in cases of *non-consenual pregnancy or medical necessity*.
No, of course no one is claiming "they are too dumb to get drivers' licenses". I asked my question because you seem very uninterested to the government barriers that people have to endure to exercise their rights when it comes to abortion. It leads me to think that maybe you really don't give a shit about their abortion rights at all, that you don't think that they shouldn't have the right to an abortion in the first place.
Of course it is possible for people to jump through hoops to satisfy all of the restrictions and hurdles that government places in front of people to exercise their rights. But why should they have to do that?
She’s got a 15 week window mate.
https://apnews.com/article/florida-abortion-ban-approved-c9c53311a0b2426adc4b8d0b463edad1
So it's not a 6-week ban yet, but it soon will be.
360 miles on I-40. You could still get from Gallup to Needles and back in a day. Or Vegas, for that matter.
New motto: What Gestates in Other Places Stays in Vegas
I'm sure there's a way to gamble on this somehow. Fetal roulette?
Before Dobb's there was exactly five abortion clinics operating in Idaho (something like three or four were in the greater Boise area) and two or three in Montana (I believe one was Missoula, one in Bozeman and one in Helena) for most of the state, that means hours of driving (for eastern Montana that often meant travelling to Bismarck ND because it is slightly closer than Bozeman).
We're talking like five hours vs six hours one way. I love when East Coasters complain about having to travel 75 miles one way as some hardship.
On the east coast that could still be five or six hours...
Amazon sells metal coathangers.
It's a safe prediction that such methods will be making a comeback.
The ATF (Bureau of Americans Terminating Fetuses) should require background checks and waiting periods for them. High capacity cost hangers should be banned as should folding coat hangers.
And now we're back to the "firearms and abortions should be exactly as easy to get" concept... 😀
I’m being sarcastic. One of them is an inalienable right needed to help defend oneself and the other always results in taking a life.
Yeah, no. Highly unlikely. First, travel to other states that have codified abortion into their constitution is a lot easier than prior to 1973. Secondly, most states are likely to settle somewhere, even those passing restrictions in the latter half of the second trimester. Thirdly, birth control is far easier to obtain than prior to 1973, ergo, if a state does restrict abortion and neither of the two first criteria are achieved, but women in those states, who aren't ready to have a child, are going to be much more incentivized to use proper birth control. And lastly, the number of coat hanger abortions was always a Boogeyman, almost never actually occurred pre-Roe and even by Roe, a lot of states had already legalized abortion. Coat hanger (and for that matter, back alley abortions period) are in the same boat as white slavery scares of the early 20th century or satanic cults practicing sexual molestation of kids in the 80s.
Maybe the fact people are escaping tyranny is the issue.
So much tyranny that they turn around and go right back into it.
Murderers sometimes return to the scene of the crime.
Yeah! Making up bogus charges and assuming the most tyranny possible just before everyone wants to escape permanently is so what the USA was founded on.... /s
The US was founded on not wanting to pay for the war that Britain financed for her. When a victim is dead, I disagree with you regarding that the charges are bogus.
Yeah! All people in the grave yard are victims... Someone should've been forced to save them even if they didn't want to be saved!!! Quick dig them all back up and put them on life support.... /s
Bogus charges through and through made up with excuses that don't hold any water anywhere but in fairy-tale 'religion' land.
Keep trying to wish things into existence. Maybe you can win Powerball that way.
But they left? You said they fled tyranny - why did they go back?
Because the tyrannical club hasn't gotten around to dictating every other aspect of their *personal* life yet. Perhaps you'd like to pretend pregnant wife's who don't get to bed by 10PM and miscarry are "killing babies" too and expand upon that dictator instinct.
A mountain of dead infants is freedom to you?
Where are all these supposedly dead infants?
infant - a human child from birth to the end of the first year of life
https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/infant
Oh look at that. I can keep repeating the fact that your lies are lies just as much as you can keep pumping your BS propaganda.
Little known fact: A Mountain Of Dead Infants was the original name of the band before they shortened it to just Mountain.
Driving? Liberals are not supposed to drive. The elites might ride in limos, but the proletariat uses Public Transport. That excursion to a blue state might require 3 different buses.
The Driving Miss Daisy reboot will feature a trans male (they/them pronouns), who got an abortion, teaching their white (likely cis heteronormative male) Christian Conservative fundamentalist employer the importance of abortions (and transgender rights).
Reminder:
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1720767671598281152?t=BKxlDBQbDcdulwzEIPMEuw&s=19
My (Jewish) paternal grandparents were also cousins, you racist shit.
I like Cathy, but that her grandparents were cousins fuckers doesn't invalidate that guy's points.
You know who else married his cousin, and was still right about a lot of stuff?
Edgar Allen Poe? He was always raven about her.
Jerry Lee Lewis?
Charles Darwin?
For most of history cousin marriage was quite common. And even first cousin marriage runs very little greater risk than non-familial marriage, at they only share approximately 25% of the same genetic material, at most. First cousin once removed is even less, second cousin even less than that. First cousins are two generations removed from the same progenitor. The problem only occurs really, when you have successive generations of such marriages. And in many parts of the world, even modern, advanced cultures, cousin marriages are not atypical even today.
Einstiens parents were first cousins
As Afghanistan is largely made up of clans, intermarriage is common. Subsequently, their average IQ is around 80. It gets worse in the more remote areas.
https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1721188229511074269?t=e5h-E9QjkhrqFiFciDxitw&s=19
The religious right were mocked relentlessly for correctly predicting the future
[Link]
I wonder if they argue about who left the toilet seat up?
Religious primitives understand human nature better than enlightened secularists and academics.
WEIRD societies (Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic) are successful aberrations but psychologically peculiar and disassociated from how humanity actually works.
Oh, I quite like that acronym. 😀
Woke
Emotional
Idiotic
Repulsive
Democrats
It's not mine.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/09/joseph-henrich-explores-weird-societies/
I'd actually forgotten that acronym from my undergrad history days.
https://twitter.com/LokiJulianus/status/1721001033864794471?t=YXp30JUQ1g-NE3R6T-3qnw&s=19
I can see why the Palestinians would be incensed by the statues over by the White House. Unlike them, our anti-colonial struggle was actually successful and didn't involve total barbarism.
Is it okay to point out that islamist are only 1400 years old, and they are the colonizers?
Only if you agree that the Holy Land needs to be returned to the papacy, or Italy.
didn’t involve total barbarism.
The hell it didn't.
I'm drawing a blank here on the mass rape of British soldiers and indiscriminate slaughter of their children...
There's plenty of material available on Revolutionary War atrocities. Do your homework.
Yes, some atrocities were committed but far from common, and never official policy. Or deliberate targeting like October 7th.
The activities by loyalists and patriots in rural South Carolina was profound.
In fact, especially under Howe, but continuing to a great degree under Clinton, the commanding general of the British forces strictly forbid the barbarism such as what Hamas did. Washington also did. The vast majority of the worse cases recorded were often by local militia vs Tory or vice versa, (Hessians were also implicated more often than regular British troops, but there is some debate as to how true that characterization was and how much was colonial propaganda) and often those conflicts had a much deeper and more personal aspect that predated the Revolution. Cornwallis even wrote multiple complaints during his southern campaign about how unruly local Tory forces were. And there are a plethora of court martials conducted by both colonial and British forces, often resulting in death sentences, for pillaging, rape, targeting women etc. So, no it wasn't even closely similar.
Yeah! America was literally invented in 1619 to create slavery.
And racism didn't exist before that. People didn't know what race was until America.
Reason unironically had a guest writer put that in a story once.
I find the whole jurisprudential struggle over this issue funny, and I mean "funny" mostly in the ha-ha sense. But it's no funnier in the USA than what I've seen from the reporting on a lot of judicial issues about numerous subjects in other countries, where it's as if their constitutions say, "The law is whatever's good." As it relates to abortions in the various states, it's just a matter of either an abortion or the lack of an abortion being legal or illegal on the basis of its being icky or non-icky. Inferences are made about "privacy" and other matters that would call in question almost all legislation on all subjects were it taken seriously rather than being inferred to be code-talk for "sex activity".
Roe v Wade was an excellent ruling (already Pro-Life leaning) as well as addressing National versus State authority on the subject. The only thing better would've been a right to fetal ejection in the questionable time frame.
The change that took place between Republicans writing Roe v Wade and their insistence on dismissing it is a culture change where government has gone tyrannical on everything.
Roe vs. Wade was an unnecessary ruling and Constitutional overreach. The Ninth and Tenth Amendments already covered the issue. Congress had no power to rule one way or the other, so the power remained with the states or the people.
Which is exactly what Roe v Wade ruled. That the power remained with the people until viability due to "The right of the people to be secure in their persons" (4th Amendment).
No, it was a terrible ruling. Even extreme leftists, such as RBG, publicly acknowledged that it was on very shaky constitutional ground and would likely face eventual repeal.
Which thankfully it was.
Yeah! The government owns your body! /s
How stupid can you be?
Smarter than you it appears. Let’s just agree that I’m right, and you’re wrong. Which is objectively true anyway.
You are right for YOU now back off the gov-guns and leave ME alone!
https://twitter.com/0xAlaric/status/1720155197643616637?t=6ofSWLSuYKy8pEX_KZ1KNQ&s=19
Many people talk of "friend-enemy distinction," "they just hate you," etc. but have yet to fully embrace what that means.
The Left does. True Schmittian friend-enemy politics is hypocritical by nature. "It's okay when we do it, bad when they do it." This is the core of politics.
"Your guys" get nuance. "Their guys" don't.
Meanwhile, some of the strongest proponents of this kind of politics refuse to let themselves be inconsistent; they cannot let go of their liberal humanist priors
I actually don't know what that means. I could take a guess, but I presume it's being used in a specific manner that I am unaware of.
If you're friend and call on the beheading of your enemies and/or confiscation of their property, that's cool. You still get credit for believing in freedom and human rights.
If you're enemy and do the same as friend, you're vile and have no principles.
See: literally everything the left/regime does.
I have to wonder where the Civil Libertarians are based on how little I'm seeing discussion of what's happening in many of Trump's court cases. You're not required to like Trump, or have voted for him, to find a lot of the government's actions against him unconscionable and unconstitutional.
For example, the court case being heard in Colorado (and similar challenges elsewhere) attempting to remove him from the ballot because he's guilty of inciting an insurrection. They're doing this in spite of the fact that he's never been found guilty of any charge relating to insurrection-in fact, he's never been CHARGED with anything like sedition or treason. The closest CHARGE he's faced is the DC case in which he's charged with "Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding." Regardless how you feel about the strength and appropriateness of those charges, that is NOT a charge of insurrection. Even if you argue the impeachment amounts to an accusation or charge of insurrection, the impeachment was an attempt to disqualify him from holding office, and he was acquitted. Attempting, once again, to disqualify him from office for the same actions and offense is double-jeopardy. The fact that any of these cases are going forward is an infringement on the rights of people to have their voices heard.
Beyond that, there's the nature of how some of the cases are proceeding. In New York, Trump, and now his defense team, are now barred from making comments about a public official, Engoran's law clerk. The reason this matters is that a court (used in this case, referring to a judge) is ethically bound to remain impartial, and even the appearance of partiality is an ethical violation. While these same rules aren't necessarily binding on a law clerk, a clerk with a document political bias against a defendant who is repeatedly conferring with the judge during trial is an appearance of bias. When the prosecution, the state, makes legal arguments and representations, they have to do so in a manner that allows the defense to respond and offer counter-arguments, to rebut and make their own representations. But if a law clerk who is biased against the defense confers with the judge in secret, the defense is not allowed to hear this, nor respond.
Here's the complaint with evidence of her acting as a blatant political operative while a member of Judge Engoran's staff:
https://attorneyallisongreenfield.com/
And here's the judicial canons of New York, section 100.3, where it says that it's the requirement of a judge to hold his staff to the same standards of impartiality as the judge himself.
https://ww2.nycourts.gov/rules/chiefadmin/100.shtml
(2) A judge shall require staff, court officials and others subject to the judge's direction and control to observe the standards of fidelity and diligence that apply to the judge and to refrain from manifesting bias or prejudice in the performance of their official duties.
But in violation of this, this judge has this clerk sitting not at a clerk's table, but she's sitting at the bench, immediately next to the judge. Hand-holding distance, and there's a pattern of repeated conferences with his clerk. When the defense lawyer tried to point out this appearance of impropriety, the judge lashed out, claiming he was a misogynist for daring to question that a woman on his staff might represent a violation of the judge's own judicial ethics. So therefore he extended a gag order to cover not just Trump, but Trump's defense team, not allowing them to make any comments about a figure of public interest.
It's not like this law clerk is a private citizen quietly living her own life. She put HERSELF in the public interest by trying to run for office even while serving as a member of the judge's staff. And the clerk is in a position of public interest to start with as long as she works in a public court, so commenting on her bias or perceived bias is not only permitted by the first Amendment, but it's the most important type of First Amendment protected speech-discussing people and issues of public interest.
He is holding his staff to the same standards of impartiality as he's holding himself. They're just egregiously low standards.
And those egregiously low standards are grounds for removal. Either from the bench, or removal from the case, with a mistrial and a new hearing scheduled for a different court.
Even if this is never going to happen in New York, where are the people who care about civil liberties? Where is a libertarian publication like Reason on any of this?
Again, I don't like Trump. I didn't vote for him. I have no intentions of voting for him in the future (though, man, the candidates lined up for 2024 are all looking really shit). I'm not a supporter of him. I have no financial interest in any of these case. But where are people who should be taking a principled stance on civil rights when it comes to such high-profile cases?
There are some people on the right who are up in arms over this. For the most part, I don't trust them, I expect them to turn around and trample over the rights of their political enemies if they ever get in a position to. There's a lot of voices that are outraged simply because this is THEIR guy. But why aren't there more people of principle who are outraged simply because it's the power of government being improperly leveraged against an individual, a disfavored political opponent? It's actually hard to find people even covering what's happening in some of these cases despite the fact that they should all be big news.
I mean, I care, but that translates to effectively nothing in the real world. New York isn't going to care about the opinion of some dude from New Mexico, and I'm not an author. I agree that it's sick that nobody here seems to give a fuck about it, since they are notionally working as journalists for what is supposed to be a libertarian publication.
As for 2024... I didn't vote for Trump the last two times (and somewhat regret that in '20) but barring something exotic out of the ether, if he's on the ballot in '24, fuck it, I'm in.
With the GOPs continued growth among Hispanics, it quite possible New Mexico might become competitive again. For that sake, so could Colorado. Maybe not reddish purple, but blueish purple in the near future.
We've had some "fortification" the last couple of elections, so I don't know if the actual views of the populace are going to matter so much. I do plan to register as a poll watcher. I may even do so as a Democrat... 😀
And honestly, it's almost comical. Letitia James is sitting in on the proceedings every day. Then she tweets and makes public comments about Trump and the ongoing case, showing her own bias.
https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1720576132855009448
She's calling witnesses liars as a public official, on her official account as the Attorney General (not her personal twitter account), during an ongoing proceeding. She's wielding the power of the government to bias the public against witnesses.
Now, I would argue that this perhaps qualifies as free speech, except that the judge has gagged the defense from sharing their sentiments about public officials involved in the trial. They're not allowed to comment on a figure of public interest involved in the trial, and in other cases, Trump isn't even allowed to comment about the witnesses against him. Despite Trump being a political candidate, right now, he is a private citizen. His lawyers are private citizens. The speech of private citizens should NOT be more tightly scrutinized for its prejudicial effect than the speech of a public official. It simply should not.
There are even more abuses of obvious civil liberties. Trump, again while running for public office, is being gagged for fear that his speech might qualify as "witness intimidation." But witness intimidation is already a crime, and we're not allowed to impose a restriction of rights based on the mere possibility that someone might do something criminal. Certainly it's improper to tell someone in the public interest what issues they are and are not allowed to speak on.
Of course, the violations of Trump's rights in the DC case are worse than that. Trump's legal team was denied the option to view the government's evidence against him. They weren't even allowed to view the evidence under a seal, to prevent it becoming public, because the government says the information is "classified." Instead, the government only has to disclose "unclassified summaries" of the evidence in the classified documents. Which means, if there's exculpatory evidence contained within those documents, the defense is never going to know. Even more crazy, the defense was denied the right to view the government's FILING in asking to withhold evidence from the defense. That is, they can't even view the ex-parté documents filed with the judge where they requested to seal certain evidence.
https://www.newsweek.com/judge-chutkan-blocks-trump-prosecutor-evidence-january-6-trial-1840033
Now, in an ideal world, it makes sense that "classified information" might deserve some special protection in a trial setting, even if it does establish a dangerous conflict of rights of the accused. But we all know, by now, that "classified information" is such an overly broad category that lunch orders at DOJ staff meetings end up being classified. More importantly, information gets classified that might embarrass a Senator or a Cabinet Member, under the guise that it might "erode confidence" in the function of the government. This is such an overly broad work-around to deny a political opponent ammunition that might be useful in their defense, or even in sharing their public opinion about the court. But Trump is not allowed to view even the prosecution's request to seal these documents so they could get an idea of what types of reports these might even come from.
The lunch orders are probably only CUI, or “Confidential Unclassified Information” but even at that level there are quite a few listed exceptions to FOIA that people who handle that sort of thing are trained to use to deny the disclosure of such things.
But yes, this is utter hogwash in a trial.
"I'm hoping to convict my political rival on secret evidence" is full blown banana republic.
“I’m hoping to convict my political rival on secret evidence” is full blown banana republic.
But this is different, because the prosecution assures us that their declassified summary is totally accurate and contains all the information they need! We're not going to let you see what we're summarizing so you can't challenge the validity of it, but still, anything that might be of value or help to the defense is in it.
Don't trust us, trust the judge! The judge is definitely unbiased, despite making statements in different court hearings where she seemed dismayed that Trump hadn't been indicted yet. She's definitely going to be completely fair to the defense while having private meetings with the prosecution.
Yeah. It's pretty sick. I'm baffled at where my country went, and occasionally wonder if it ever actually existed at all. :'(
The universe is apparently a simulation so whatever actually existed, didn’t.
What I find interesting about this lawfare is that the public is mostly unimpressed. If the goal here is to make Trump unelectable by convicting him of crimes based on novel legal theories and political animus it's been a spectacular failure. A majority believes that the 2020 election was influenced by fraud. If Trump agrees, they don't see it as particularly problematic let alone criminal. And his poll numbers continue to climb mostly because the Biden presidency has been a total disaster for most of them. I think for the most part people see these trials as political prosecutions that are not relevant to their lives. It really doesn't matter if Trump is not on the ballot in CA. He's ahead in the swing states that will determine the EC victory. Bottom line is that Trump could actually win even if he is convicted of a federal crime in a podunk district court. Because as far as the electorate is concerned the alternative is far worse.
That's why there are lawsuits in Michigan and Colorado as well. Though I don't know if Colorado is still a swing state.
Given a particularly unimpressive president, it's not beyond the realm of possibility for Colorado to turn red next election. Not in any permanent basis, but for a single race? Who knows.
They've sent letters to every state's AG. Cases were filed in Georgia, Florida, New Hampshire, Michigan, Minnesota, and they attempted to push it in Arizona as well. Maybe some others-I saw a full list yesterday but I can't find that link today.
Beyond that, if he can't run in the PRIMARY in states like California and New York, he's missing out on a lot of potential delegates. They're trying to disqualify him before the primary election dates, meaning they might have a chance in preventing him from getting enough delegates in the primary to win the nomination. Unlikely, but who knows?
If that happened, a rump Republican convention would nominate him. The official Republican nominee wouldn't even get enough votes in the general election to deny Trump a plurality in any state, and the Republican organization nationally would be finished forever.
I know that's realistically how it would play out. If enough states pulled Trump from ballots to prevent him securing enough delegates, likely nobody else would get a majority. You'd get tons of Trump write-in votes, which may or may not end up counted. And yes, it would go to the RNC, where Trump almost certainly gets nominated.
But clearly the goal is to prevent him from winning the nomination. That's why there's now a rush to get many of these cases heard before primaries start. The fact that these cases are being entertained instead of dismissed outright is laughable.
Keep in mind that these dismissal cases allege that he "incited" an insurrection. We have a very strict definition about what qualifies as incitement, under Brandenburg v. Ohio and Hess v. Indiana. Speech in both of those cases was much more overt and directly aim at causing illegal activity.
I heard a bit of the government's "right-wing extremism expert" testify in the Colorado case. He's a sociologist who knows that when Trump says "be peaceful, obey officers," he was just doing it for plausible deniability, but when he said "fight," he meant it literally. It was an insane clown show and that sort of mind-reading testimony shouldn't even be allowed; you can't be an expert in this sort of mind-reading. In any sane court nobody would qualify this expert as being able to speak on those grounds.
Yeah barring his death I don't see how he won't be the party nominee. Even if he's sitting in the Fulton County jail. Nobody else is even close. It may be that the larger strategy is to provoke a violent response from Trump supporters, not all of whom are Republicans by the way. I'm not a Republican. But so far nobody is taking the bait and after the J6 prosecutions I doubt anybody will.
If they put Trump in jail, that absolutely would provoke a violent response.
It would be appropriate, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I sure would not do anything to stop it.
Half of New York has basically no Republicans but they get the same number of delegates as real Red areas. I live in a county that basically doesn't have a Republican Party.
I should switch my affiliation and run to be a Republican Delegate. I have about a half dozen Republican friends who would vote for me and that might be enough.
“we’re not allowed to impose a restriction of rights based on the mere possibility that someone might do something criminal”
We do that all the time. If you are charged with a crime and a judge thinks you might be a danger to society you get locked up pending trial.
I get the feeling the judge wants to provoke an actual insurrection.
+
I'm confident that jailing Trump would provoke a massive insurrection. Not sure if that's anyone's plan.
Perhaps the FBI is monitoring Olive Garden restaurants for possible insurrectionist meetups.
If things don’t change direction in the next few years we will see a real one.
I'm wondering where the "grave threat to democracy" crowd is. Apparently protesting on public property for election integrity was a grave threat to democracy, but piling up annual investigations and indictments against the leading opposition candidate, and the most popular candidate overall, in the hopes of getting him disqualified or imprisoned before the next election, is not a threat to democracy at all.
Apparently everything is a "Grave threat." The Judge in New York says that the defense can't talk about his law clerk-whose name is Allison Greenfield-because of the potential dangers it might put her or the court in.
He's not saying she's been harassed at home, or in any private capacity at all, nor himself. What he does cite is that his COURT has been bombarded with letters and phone calls. People are haranguing a public servant at their place of operation, using their publicly facing methods of communication. It's not harassment, it's public input. He doesn't like the public commenting on his law clerk and her obvious political leanings which she shared on her personal social media accounts when she was running for office as a Democrat.
Remember, the judge's duty is not merely to avoid bias, but even the mere appearance of impropriety. That's the standard of Judicial Conduct in the New York Judicial Canons, and the judge's staff and court officials are meant to be held to the same standards as the judge. Now it's hardly standard practice for defense attorneys to comment on the perceived bias of the judge or his staff. But that's because, in most cases, attorneys have a level of trust in the judge's fairness and don't want to affect the proceedings by pissing off the judge. That doesn't mean it's illegal, and it doesn't mean the judge has any justification in issuing a gag order because the defense is commenting on the in-court behavior of court officials. Just because this commentary about the bias of the court and its officials is unusual doesn't make it illegal or out of bounds. The judge has already partially ruled against them in summary judgment so it's not like they're making things worse.
If they were calling for an actual harassment campaign, if they were posting this clerk's private address and phone number out there and encouraging people to pester her, that would certainly justify a gag order. That's not what's happening. She's being called out for her in-court behavior in her capacity as a public servant because of her work as a public servant, and specifically because of how that behavior reflects on the judge. It doesn't matter if everything is completely above-board, if it looks fishy to observers, it's free game to comment on. And the defense is not only allowed to comment on it, they're absolutely justified in doing so because of how it reflects on judicial ethics.
Current Thingism infects everyone mate. *Everyone*
We're all part of competing egregores.
We all know Brandon aided and abetted the Taliban.
This is a grifter.
Whether he knows his schlock is bs that helps nobody but himself or he just doesn't get it, all he's done is suck at the public trough while telling you to submit.
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1721200917251305696?t=4hU4tnLuJW4ahnC7mzsjLA&s=19
Free speech means protecting speech you don’t like.
Sometimes it even means protecting speech you find abhorrent and hateful.
*This may include jail time—life in prison is on the table in Alabama and Texas—as well as fines or the loss of a medical license.*
Evidence suggest it’s WAY riskier to question the rhetoric around COVID-19 than this. Especially in California. Yet they always seem to play up the idea that ‘seriously bad things could happen to doctors!’ - which never seem to materialize. It seems like fear-mongering.
And in every single one of these emotional outcries, the cases aren't even edge cases, they have been clearly allowed under even the most draconian laws, so one can only conclude, if being truthful, the medical professionals involved are either idiots, never read the law (and the medical facilities lawyers also never read the actual law) or are deliberately risking bad outcomes to make a political point. Or quite possibly really didn't happen the way the media is telling it, or that the doctors and or alleged. patients are outright lying (it quite possibly both). But that has never happened before. Ever. (And that is obviously sarcasm folks).
Wasn't there a discussion here the other day about whether "Christian nationalism" was a real thing or not? Well, here is an article from everyone's favorite right-wing source, The Federalist, unintentionally advocating for it:
https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/04/every-ohio-pastor-has-a-duty-to-urge-his-congregants-to-vote-no-on-issue-1/
In this article, the author is advocating that it is the duty of Christian pastors in Ohio to instruct their congregants to vote no on Issue 1 which would keep in place a ban on abortion. And as a part of this justification, the author writes:
That sounds pretty close to advocating for a type of Christian nationalism to me.
You push for nationalism all the time buddy. You just want it to be the Progressive Wing controlling everything.
So stop whining when other people do it, hypocrite.
Like, you just need to exchange righteous for Progressive and it's what you are pushing every day.
Give a concrete example of where I allegedly push for a progressive policy that isn't also a mainstream libertarian policy, or where I have ever advocated for "the Progressive Wing controlling everything".
And if you can't give any examples whatsoever of me advocating for these things, would it therefore be the case that you have just lied about me?
Abortion.
State's Rights.
Freedom of speech.
How's that?
Abortion? There's pro-life libertarians and there's pro-choice libertarians. Being pro-life or pro-choice itself doesn't indicate anything about whether anyone is a progressive or not.
States' rights? Again I am neither uniformly pro-states-rights nor anti-states-rights, it depends on the liberty of the individual.
Freedom of speech? Unlike most people, I recognize the issue as far more complex than the simplistic binaries that people like to throw out there. I am not a 'free speech absolutist', I suppose, but I also don't support government censorship of so-called 'misinformation' either. How does that make me a 'progressive'?
And where is your evidence for your claims anyway?
Got any more?
Your advocacy for pedophiles?
*nationalization
Some dude said some stuff.
OMG!!!
Abortion means never having to say you are responsible.
Responsible for other people's religious judgements? Something I learned long ago. Nobody can keep everyone else happy about their personal life's all the time.
No, responsible for your own actions that might impose undesired consequences.
Almost all arguments in favor of abortion start with "body autonomy", which really means not wanting to endure the imposition of pregnancy and parenthood.
But lots of people do things deliberately that also have potentially onerous consequences. Can they claim a priority of self to void those consequences? How about bank account autonomy if I make some stupid financial decisions?
"undesired consequences" created by the religion/faith of others by poking gov-guns at them. If it wasn't wanna-be outside dictators making consequences the gov-guns wouldn't be involved and the only "undesired consequence" would be by one's own conscience or god himself.
It really is a bunch of nosy outsiders trying to play 'god' about the unborn.
Are the bankers inside your body sucking your blood?
If I have to work two craps jobs, including some that might be physically challenging and risky to my health, then yes.
Elizabeth,
Your entire article was a moot point after this. "None of these bans would have been constitutional under Roe."
Roe was found to be unconstitutional. Everything else is a moot point.
"Libertarians for central control" seems to be the new Reason motto. They especially like the California state government telling California cities how many high density housing projects they need to build, whether the residents of the city want them or not. Freedom!
The residents restricting development in order to keep the riffraff out and to artificially inflate the value of their own property is the opposite of libertarianism.
Yes, there is a Libertarians for Central Control but it is the opposite of what you claim it is.
…because of course … ‘potential’ VOIDS the Constitution. /s
Just another show of BS ignorance to the Constitution by SCOTUS.
Disagree? Show me that magical ‘potential’ word in the Constitution.
At least Roe referenced the 4th and 14th Amendment in it's ruling F'En Alito didn't reference sh*t to justify his reasoning just made up some story about 'potential' life is why the Constitution cannot be interpreted as written.
ENB is as big an abortion fanatic as TJJ2000.
https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1721203310974107926?t=IJRsNaQRYHn2x3cZHtqQ8g&s=19
Ukrainian soldiers shoot their own foreign colleagues:
- During an argument between Ukrainian soldiers and foreign mercenaries in the Ukrainian army the go-pro camera of one of them caught the first ones shooting and killing at close range English speaking militants.
It has been reported before (t.me/UkraineHumanRi…) that nationalist units act as barrier detachments to prevent conscripts from surrendering or leaving their positions, in the video the English speaking troops are ordering Ukrainians to go back to their lines when they are shoot by them.
- I would say in this case the foreign mercenaries are the ones keeping the Ukrainian cannon fodder "in line" only the canon fodder is fighting back.
[Video]
foreign mercenaries in the Ukrainian army the go-pro camera of one of them caught the first ones shooting and killing at close range English speaking militants.
I have seen a LOT of Ukraine war videos where the fighters are speaking perfect Nebraska or Texas English, and require a translator to talk to other Ukraine soldiers who are on the radio.
I kept thinking to myself while watching these, "That's a dicey proposition. This isn't like American volunteers who went to fight in places like Afghanistan or Libya, where they were essentially fighting ISIS or other Jihadis with the full backing of the US military (I've seen those videos too where Americans are calling in airstrikes from Cell phones). In this situation, THEY'RE ISIS, running around with AKs and Light Anti Tank weapons while Russians are coming at them with attack helicopters, guided artillery, MIG 31s and Modern tanks.
And it looks like that's how the returning volunteers began to realize the situation was playing out:
Yeah, it's all very sexy and youtubey when you're fighting insurgents and the biggest weapon they have is a soviet era RPG 7. Now YOU'RE the insurgent with the RPG7 while staring down the guns of a HIND-24's and Ka-52s with night vision, FLIR and laser guided missiles.
There’s a lot of mess over there. One US YT merc was in a Donetsk town the same time eastern channels were reporting mass rapes by the Kiev soldiers. The YT content creator talked about going door to door and providing security for the soldiers. He returned stateside shorty thereafter.
Have an acquaintance whose father is on the periphery of Zely’s inner circle. She has shared some internal stories regarding fratricide.
I asked her when the SMO began - what is the realistic end-game.
If I were a cynical libertarian, I’d suspect a big part of the proxy war is to maintain those voluptuous MIC share dividends that were otherwise sunsetting after that 20-year war to replace the Taliban with the Taliban.
So I was wrong, I claimed yesterday that Vernon Depner advocated that distribution of child porn should be legal, but that is incorrect. He instead advocates that possession of child porn should be legal.
https://reason.com/2023/07/22/sex-workers-want-rights-not-rescue/?comments=true#comment-10165669
Don't be a hypocrite - the Progressives are putting 'map' into the LGBT with all the others.
All Dobbs did was push the fight back to the states where it belongs.
The same people are saying the same things, just now in 50 different places.
I wonder if 'common sense speech control' would allow restricting political donations/advertisements to those eligible to vote on the issue? You know, state voters on state issues, city residents on city issues, etc?
All those lobbiests could learn to code. (or make sandwiches)
Californians are not moderate on abortion. They gave residents the unlimited right to terminate a pregnancy right up to the day of birth. I guess residency begins when you're born, if you make it. They called it "reproductive freedom" but they really meant protection from prosecution for not reproducing, after the process had started.
Californians are not moderate on abortion. They gave residents the unlimited right to terminate a pregnancy right up to the day of birth.
https://abortion.ca.gov/your-rights/your-legal-right-to-an-abortion/index.html
A pregnancy becomes viable when a doctor determines that the fetus could live outside the uterus without extreme medical measures.
So a 20 week abortion ban.
So much for the "unlimited right to an abortion until the moment of birth".
Except the “health” exception covers the woman’s Mental Health. So right up to delivery date if it would bum her out to go thru with labor
Judaism teaches that you MUST abort s fetus even of a woman in labor if that is necessary to save her life. And it broadly defines what is necessary.
Every one of these new anti abortion laws infringes on the religious rights of Jews. Does the current Supreme Court care about Jews any more than the pro Hamas protesters?
Mental health is health, too.
It is. I’m sure killing more infants pleases you.
With that, nearly 50 years of status quo surrounding abortion was ended.
I wonder if there are any other status-quo court decisions that we might agree are on dodgy constitutional ground that might be overturned?
I find it baffling that the people's right to be secure in their persons concerning their very own bodily function is considered "dodgy constitutional grounds".
I'm curious what other dodgy grounds the lack of one's own body ownership can produce. "Hey man. Your mind can be free but your body is a slave of the State because you don't own your own body."
That question was already answered in Jacobson v. Massachusetts and Buck v. Bell.
Interesting.
SCOTUS upholds that … “in which the Court ruled that a state statute mandating sterilization of the unfit, including the intellectually disabled, “for the protection and health of the state” did not violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Jacobson also has been a precedent case in justifying government face mask orders and stay-at-home orders throughout the COVID-19 pandemic.
State Mandatory sterilizing and lock-up for the WIN!!!! /s
...because of course gov-guns are healthy!!!! 'guns' are the only tool to perfect health.
Now why in the world would anyone want those rulings dismissed??
Surely cancelling Roe v Wade that established a right to own one's own body pre-viable was sooo much more important to get cancelled.
Let's get those notions of Individual Liberty shut-down ASAP!
Abortion is infanticide. That’s why. Your fanaticism on this subject aside of course.
No it isn't. And you know that.
I got to say. Pro-Life sounds EXACTLY like leftard dictators during COVID. "You don't have any right/liberty to go around killing everyone else with your COVID. You must be locked-up!"
We have been doing mandatory lock up during disease outbreaks since 1793. Learn some history.
A lot of so called pro lifers want to stop abortion but encourage mass death from pandemics.
And once upon a time BEFORE that the USA was based on Individual Liberty and Justice for all using "the peoples" Supreme Law over their government. Learn some history.
Right... because 'guns' (gov-guns) are certainly always the best/only tool that is used to stop a pandemic. Bow down and worship the 'guns'.... /s
The Insular Cases were as bad as Dred Scott and should be reversed. Gorsuch seems to want to do that.
hoes mad
This is where the real motive of the Pro-Life mob exists.
The pregnancy is a 'godly' innocent perfect person but the woman isn't a personal at all she's just a hoe (State owned incubator). Life support machines deserve more respect as a person than that hoe-bag.. /s
The Kaiser, Adolf Hitler, Herbert Hoover, Teddy Roosevelt all agree eugenics laws goood. (https://bit.ly/3M6hpDZ)
"the Great Depression that followed the Panic of 1907–a depression brought on by Pure Food and Drug law enforcement of that year."
I stopped reading after that line, which shows that the author is a blithering idiot.
As-if there hasn't been consistent Recession and/or Economic Panic on a regular 50-year interval ever since and getting more common the more government socializes everything.
That was a false dichotomy in the first place.
The issue is abortion. You are either pro-abortion, or you're anti-abortion. Couching in euphemism is an effort to two-step around the actual issue. Playing around in vagueness and exploiting gray areas is an effort to avoid critical analysis. This is what you're doing when you quibble about things like "life" and "choice" and the definition of "person" and when a "person" gets "rights." It's what you're doing when you pretend that the why of an abortion matters even slightly.
ALL of that - ALL OF IT - is intellectual dishonesty.
NOBODY - let alone "most Americans" - is an "abortion moderate." We all know PRECISELY where we stand. Because we all know what abortion is.
It's the intentional termination of ones in utero progeny.
You either advocate, support, defend, or rationalize that practice; or you don't.
So quit screwing around, quit dancing around the issue, quit hiding in cowardice, and have the basic human integrity to draw your line in the sand. Are you for it, or are you against it.
My line in the sand. If the right isn’t inherent it’s not a right at all but an *entitlement* at the expense of someone else’s liberty.
Both the Woman and the ?progeny? should have liberty from gov-gun dictation of ‘others’ opinions/religions and each other.
Free the ?progeny? and liberate the Woman (fetal ejection) and the actual search of truth in the debate will be settled once and for all.
The only reason this debate is endless is because the very truth behind it is being ‘banned’ by religious ‘faith’ as so profoundly worded by Dobbs with the word 'potential'.
Liberate the progeny by chopping it up!
Fetal Ejection. As I stated way above. The Pro-Life mob would save themselves a ton of headache if they would/could actually address there stated concern head-on (honestly).
The reason they never will?
Because their entire premise sits on BS propaganda.
A self induced 'faith' or 'religion' not confirmed by reality.
So for them. Fetal Ejection is not an option only forced reproduction is.
If you're a passenger in my car, as a direct result of circumstances of my own making, and I decide I no longer wish to transport you, can I kick you out on the middle of the freeway while I'm doing 80mph?
That is, can I intentionally eject you from it in a way that will, with no uncertainty, result in your termination? You're in my car at the expense of my liberty (to not want you in my car, regardless of my role in your being there), after all.
Or is that something I would - and should - rightfully go to jail for?
Didn’t you know that babies have no right to exist? Because reasons?
YOU DUMB*SSES WON"T LET THEM EXIST!!!!!!
It's exactly what you're trying to BAN!
i.e. You're not saving sh*t... You're FORCING reproduction.
Uh, no. We’re trying to curtail infanticide. There’s a difference. No one I know is trying to stop people from fucking.
No your not.
If you were you’d support a right to fetal ejection.
Do you?
Because if you don't you OBVIOUSLY are doing nothing but trying to force a woman to keep reproducing.
No fetal ejection isn't done at 80mph on a freeway. Which leads right into your claim of "result in your termination". What ACT occurs during a fetal ejection that would result in termination??????? HUH????
That right there *is* the very factor of reality. It isn't a person yet! It can't function as a person what-so-ever. It's no different than removing a liver or lung because there is no ACT of killing anything upon it's removal. The only signs of person-hood are imagined (fantasy land creatures).
Throw in the fact that *real* people with *real* person-hood SLAVES are being made by this imagination of outsiders wanting to dictate a persons bodily function and it's one of the most despicable acts of gov-gun tyranny I've seen in a long time.
There is no justification for wanting to dictate other peoples body because you have a big imagination. Either separate the two or let it go.
And for F'Sakes. Mind your own F'En business.
Sorry, ‘mind your own fucking business’ doesn’t cover murder.
Hey guess what?? You can save it since you want to make 'claim' to it you just can't take the Woman with you.
You're making 'claim' to someone against their own will because you want to pretend you have interest in a part of them in which that part you also insist cannot be separated from them.
Clear as day; lobbying for slavery. We you can 'own' another person.
What act occurs during an ejection from my car at 80mph that would result in termination?
It's not the ejection that kills you, TJ. You'll survive being ejected. Might not survive what comes next, but that's your problem. Even if the only reason you're in my car in the first place, is partially/entirely on account of my decisions. The ejection doesn't itself kill you - I'm just separating you, from my liberty interest in not having you in my car. So, you'll defend my liberty interest in kicking you out of a speeding car, right?
Nobody's talking about personhood. Or "when" one becomes a person. Stop using faith-based terms. You earlier quite specifically circumscribed the discussion to keep out that kind of talk.
The fact remains, whatever you are - you are an unwanted entity in my car. Why should I be forced to carry you there? I can eject you at 80mph, and the ejection is itself harmless.
This is literally YOUR argument. Why are you suddenly against it?
"What act occurs during an ejection from my car at 80mph that would result in termination? "
lol... "What act occurs" ... Well it certainly is NOT part of the 'acts' of fetal ejection so it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with fetal ejection.
You're creating an *imaginary* ACT (harmful) that isn't there. You are putting the crime in there with your *imagination* and pretending its actually there.
You're LITERALLY imagining a crime that isn't there and pretending it's literally my argument. Nice try. Next.
No, he’s spot on. Also, you really need to seek mental help. You are deeply delusional on this issue.
Then perhaps you should precisely define what you mean by "ejection."
I'm talking about removing an unwanted entity (even if I'm the whole/partial reason for it being there in the first place) from a place where I don't want it. I have a liberty interest in being free to remove entities I don't want from places I don't want them, right?
And ejection causes no harm in and of itself to anyone. If something happens to you after I've divested myself of your unwanted presence - even if that something is immediate and catastrophic - that's YOUR problem, right? Not mine. I had nothing to do with it. I just exercised my liberty with regard to what's in (or not in) my car.
None of that is a crime (don't know why we're even talking about crime, this is the first time anyone's brought it up... do you think it's littering or something?). Why are you even bringing "crime" into the consideration?
My car. Your unwanted presence there. By your argument, I can eject you from it whenever I decide I want to. That's my right.
Right?
Good grief. precisely NOT down a freeway at 80mph.
Your just wasting my time playing stupid.
Why not? It's a harmless act.
I never said it wasn’t harmless I said it had nothing to do with fetal ejection. Why are you trying so hard to speak for me? Do you think you own me too like you think you own pregnant women?
How isn't it a harmless act? I owe you nothing. If I eject you from the body of my car whenever/however I please - which is something you say I should be able to do - whatever happens to you afterwards is your problem. Has nothing to do with me.
BECAUSE YOU EJECTED ME AT 80MPH~!!!!!!!!!
If you don't want to listen to the answer STOP F'EN asking it.
Do you think it's okay to kick someone out of your car at 0MPH????
You're doing absolutely nothing but imaginating the crime into the equation.
So what if it's at 80mph? Why should that make a difference? Ejecting an unwanted entity is an entirely justified and harmless thing to do, isn't it?
So what if your BS stinks doesn't your BS still mean something?
Um.. No; It doesn't.
You didn't answer the question(s)?
So what if it's 80mph? Do I have the liberty to eject an unwanted entity from places that are unequivocally mine, for any reason I want, and by any means and under any circumstances I desire?
Or don't I?
Nobody is talking about opinions or religions. Don’t try and change the subject.
The intentional termination of ones in utero progeny. You either advocate, support, defend, or rationalize that practice; or you don’t.
Which is it?
That sword cuts both ways. Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of another’s nose.
My right to cut my fingernails ends at the tip of my fingernails???
So F'En retarded and ridiculous.
Why are you talking about fingernails? They have nothing to do with this conversation whatsoever.
It have everything to do with this conversation. My fingernails are as SEPARATE from me as your imagined unicorn.
No, they’re not. Maybe you should learn about biology. Then come back here when you’re able to engage in an j formed discussion.
Currently, you’re just ranting and raving.
Maybe you should come back when you're ready to SEPARATE.
Until then your 'claims' off in BS land don't mean squat.
What unicorn? What are you talking about???
Is this just some weird convoluted attempt to avoid answering the question of whether you advocate, support, defend, or rationalize the practice of intentional termination of ones in utero progeny?
I'm sure you know your position on that subject. Why won't you just state it?
I support the full lawful ability for a person to SEPARATE from parts of themselves however they see fit ... because I think one of the most fundamental foundations of Individual Liberty requires them to be owners of themselves.
But you don't support a full lawful ability for a person to separate an unwanted entity from their car?
Do you think people are cars?
See F'En ridiculous.
Of course people aren’t cars. We’re not talking about people or cars.
We’re talking about liberty. We’re talking about the liberty interest of a car owner, with you in her car, where the owner of the car no longer desires the unwanted entity (ie. you) inside it and ejects it from said car.
Totally acceptable. Your argument.
No car owner should have to transport about any unwanted entity they don’t want (even if they’re the sole reason for the entity being there in the first place). That’s absurd. Eject it.
Right?
Then why are you off into correlating cars with pregnant women?
I know why. Can you admit it to yourself? Because you're giving women the same amount of person-hood as a car. Car's don't have any Individual Rights/Liberty and are OWNED by other people.
What a perfect plan of BS manipulation/deception you thought you had going there. Women are really Cars.
I’m not correlating anything with anything. If you’re drawing correlations – to say nothing of equating women with cars – that’s entirely on you. I’ve made no such equation whatsoever. You did.
I’m simply following your argument when it comes to ejecting unwanted entities from places where I have liberty interests.
I don’t see why you could possibly have a problem with me ejecting an unwanted entity (you) from my car, where you have no right to be (even if I helped put you in it) when “ejection” is an entirely harmless act that doesn’t offend any right you could possibly have.
Wow… The delusions expand all the way into “I’ve made no such equation whatsoever. You did.” And way to completely dodge that 0mph thing. Ya know; I'll go along with fetal ejection can only happen at 0mph but the stupidity is almost more than I can bear.
What delusions? If you’ll recall – my original post was about the fact that there’s no such thing as “moderate” on the subject of abortion.
You’re the one that brought up women (I don’t think I’ve referred to women or pregnancy even once the entire conversation) and the notion of “fetal ejection.”
Ever since then, we’ve been using YOUR argument. Which, as I’ve plainly illustrated, entirely justifes me ejecting – at any time, by any means, and under any circumstances I want (I wasn’t dodging your "0mph" remark, I was pointing out its irrelevance to the argument) – an unwanted entity (you) out of a place in which I have both total dominion (even if you’re only there because of me) by virtue of my liberty interest.
Is that, or is that not your argument?
Do you think the sanctity of a Woman's body is as-or-less respectable as their car? Isn't that the BS narrative your trying to paint here?
That's just 1/2 of the BS narrative in your case. The other 1/2 of your BS is pretending the passenger has any inherent right to life.
So lets take your narrative and park it a little closer to the subject at hand. If you're pumping blood for another person should the State have authority to *enslave* you to keep pumping that blood for them? How's that any different than an *enslaved* healthcare industry?
And in the end; no matter how you want to narrate it - you want to re-enact slavery that will force women to reproduce.
It always boils down to....
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom. (fetal ejection)
You're supporting gov-gun forced reproduction.
And humorously it even sounds worse in your BS narrative.
Do you think if you invite me into your car and we start down a freeway at 80mph that it's completely okay for me to hold a gun to your head insisting you don't slow down until the final destination is reached?
Hey. You can't kick me out and cause harm but you can't slow down either or I'll shoot you. The exact same Liberty versus Harm process of the subject.
...with a passenger that has an inherent right to life.
So that would be a Post-Viable parable / narrative of YOURS.
I don't care one way or the other. We're not talking about women. We're talking about unwanted entities in unwanted places.
I've done nothing of the sort. This entire time, I've been following YOUR argument which allows for to kicking you out of the car at high speed.
Which you should agree with. Ejection of an unwanted entity from an unwanted place in which I have a liberty interest and you don't. Do you not want to argue that position any further??
You've expressly argued that kicking you out (ejection) doesn't cause harm. Which, that's true. If I throw you out of my car at 80mph, I've caused you no harm whatsoever. Whatever happens after that (immediately or otherwise) is 100% YOUR problem, right?
You're trying to compare apples and zebras on this notion of harm; comparing an act you've already deemed harmless, with one in which an intentional threat of harm is very clear. That is, YOU intentionally want to KILL me unless you get from A to B. Whereas I just don't want an unwanted entity in an unwanted place in which I have a liberty interest and you don't.
Who should have the liberty to "eject" the other in such a case? Obviously me. Because I'm not threatening you with harm. Whereas your threat promises to kill us both.
"Because I’m not threatening you with harm."
You are... How do you think law is enforced?
Magical wands of willful coercion?
That's another oxymoron.
coercion definition: 1. the use of force to persuade someone to do something that they are unwilling to do
"Whereas your threat promises to kill us both."
And there's your flip on the head of the circumstances again.
In order to enforce your law - wishes requiring forced reproduction the police will shoot the defiant "not going to be a slave of the state and not going to jail" Woman thus killing them both.
Checkmate - As a 3rd party (none of your business); You cannot pretend to be saving a Pre-Viable fetus using gov-guns because if actual enforcement (non-compliance) ever arises that 'gun' will kill them both as instructed by your 3rd party bigotry and non-sense.
We're not talking about law.
We're talking about the harmless act of me kicking you out of MY car - where you have no right to be (even if I put you there) - at high speed.
Oh so now you're against regulating abortion.... And want to pretend taking that out of the equation will make your BS correct to support abortion regulation.
Twist and Manipulate. Twist and Manipulate... Lie, Lie, Lie...
Try and try and try to narrate a fantasy that will fit within variables of your desired delusional outcome. Let me guess; RU an attorney?
How's it relevant? I already told you fetal ejection can be legislated at 0mph you just keep insisting it has to be done at 80mph because you're determined to ****IMAGINE**** a crime into the equation.
I reject the use of the term "reproductive rights" in this context. She already has the right to reproduce. The right she wants is feticide.
Reproductive rights include the right NOT to reproduce, just as freedom of speech prohibits coerced speech.
Let's get more precise. She want the right to risk-free fucking.
Or even more precise. She want’s the right to eject something from her body she doesn’t want there.
Next up for the Pro-Life mob will be banning cancer treatment for smokers because it’s just too much of a “risk-free” lifestyle.
Ya know if the Pro-Life mob would give even 1% of their person-hood claims to the Woman as they do the Pregnant they wouldn’t be so Pro-Life Power-mad as to support Dobbs. It’s the only way to justify their complete non-human State owned incubator opinions.
And it's the very reason they take so much pride in ditching-on and de-staining the pregnant woman over and over again. Their inferred 'guilt' makes them non-human; just their own mob owned incubators.
And the problem with that is?
It’s fine up until the point where babies are being murders for the sake of convenience. But I j ow a soulless Marxist, such as yourself, isn’t capable of understanding such a concept.
Fetal Ejection. What you say you want isn't really what you want and what you name it really isn't what it is.
Delusional Meter 100%.
Fetuses aren't people.
This term "people?" What does that mean, exactly?
people - human, individual
individual - existing as a distinct entity : separate
If there is one thing wildly apparent it doesn't really matter because if you cannot twist/manipulate/deceive every which way to fit your stance you really don't care. And frankly; Your literally backed into a corner of despair and that's why you're clear down to asking what the term 'people' means. As-if that's some big puzzle.
This term "human?" What does that mean, exactly?
It means my fingernail is a human fingernail.
Look. No matter what angle you try and manipulate; this ground has been so covered with repetitive BS propaganda (actually that’s all it really is) it can be spotted by those who who care to put a thinking process on it instead of blind emotions before you even get a chance to start spouting emotionally loaded BS propaganda.
Maybe try something new?
You didn't answer the question. What does the term "human" mean?
And the game today is.... Using adjectives to make nouns.
Is it a human feces? Why yes it is doctor Spock. Then it's a human right? No; It's a feces doctor Spock. No it's not! You just said it was a human!
I'm tired of these F'En childish games. Let me know when you have some point that isn't just a ton of BS.
You imply that you know the definition, but for some reason you won't articulate it outright. Why is that?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/human
1: of, relating to, or characteristic of humans ( examples: human voices, human interactions, human spaceflight, human kindness, human weakness )
Oh, so that thing that's created at conception? Human progeny?
progeny: [noun] descendants, children.
The answer is NO.
Children don't instantly exist because of conception or they would exist somewhere outside of your BS imagination/propaganda in the world of reality instead of BS.
That requires another 280 days (just short of a year) of pregnancy.
Ya know; just like building a house. Just because you have your foundation markers set doesn't mean a house exists anywhere but your own imagination.
Human progeny isn't human?
What progeny?
Do you think my fingernail is progeny?
Nothing but endless (literally endless) amounts of BS propaganda....
All puked up to create a BS excuse to 'own' other peoples pregnancies....
Here's a thought. Maybe YOU get to 'own' your pregnancy and I get to 'own' mine until that pregnancy actually produces a SEPARATE entity capable of it's 'own' inherent ownership.
Because the only way to talk about a separate entity in reality instead of imaginary land is to SEPARATE.
How often do you travel and would you like to travel more often? Honestly, I've met people who say they don't like traveling. This is strange to me. I believe that this is an important part of every person's life. I discovered something new on my last trip, namely baku airport taxi. It turned out that calling a taxi in advance and not worrying about how you will have to get to the city center is very comfortable.
states can now decide their own rules, derp. free at last! free at last!
I'm not a State. And neither is my reproductive organs. FYI.
Great. Just don’t murder babies and everything is cool.
I don't. And no matter how many times you try to accuse everyone of your imaginary crimes the only one's doing it are already breaking the law.
Summary - Look at that! A whole bunch of people tearing up what little Individual Liberty is left because they don't approve of how their neighbors are living. Funny how the problem in this nation is right there and nobody wants to see it. Why it's almost like they ignore the possibility that tearing up of Individual Liberty might just come back and kick them in the *ss when their neighbors don't approve of their life's.
If you discover your neighbor is beating his wife and molesting his children - well hey, some very silly and anti-liberty (maybe even *gasp* religious) people might not approve of that, but you'll come to your neighbor's defense, won't you.
I mean, you wouldn't want to tear up individual liberties like spousal abuse and child molestation just because you don't approve of the practices, right?
And what's the solutions??????????????
SEPARATE them.
Oh yeah; Banning that is exactly what the Pro-Life mobsters are trying to do.
Why separate them? He's just exercising his liberty. I thought you supported that.
Why did you make-up such a BS example? Did you think it would make your arguments on the subject at hand any less stupid?
“But, but, but: 1+6=7 and that’s why you’re wrong and I’m right….” /s
Something about straw-men popping up all over the place.
So, clarify for me - are you for or against liberty?
You're the one who brought up the notion of "approving" how one's neighbors are living. I didn't bring that up. You did.
But you seem confused on when it's appropriate to encroach on liberty, based on a definition of "approval" that you seem to be self-defining. Why should you (or your religion) be the arbiter of what should or shouldn't be approved?
If a guy beats his wife, he's just exercising his liberty, right? That's YOUR argument. Sure, some people might not approve of someone doing that - but they need to mind their own business and not impose their own values on others, right?
So, please clarify. Are you "pro-liberty," or are you "pro-liberty, except when you don't like that liberty?"
Why don't you explain exactly how this has anything to do with the subject at hand instead of trying to talk me to death.
Your original point was that liberty should not be contingent on other people’s approval of your exercise of it. Neighbors should just mind their own business.
But then you didn’t want to defend that point when I suggested the liberty of your neighbor beating his wife and molesting his kid. Look, I’m sure you don’t approve of such things – you could probably even quote me scripture and verse from your religion about why it shouldn’t be approved – but hey, it’s not your place to say what he should or shouldn’t do. Your argument.
So why wouldn’t you defend your neighbor beating his wife and molesting his kid? Aren’t you pro-liberty? Or are you pro-liberty with exceptions?
The very definition of *real* inherent right versus an entitlement.
It’s exactly why claiming an Individual Right has to be inherent because if it relies on outside actors then it violates the very definition of ‘inherent’.
The neighbor doesn’t have an ‘inherent’ right to beat his wife because the wife isn’t an ‘inherent’ part of himself. Nor does he have the right to molest his kid because that kid isn’t an ‘inherent’ part of himself.
He does have every right to beat and molest himself though no matter how much you want to pretend you own parts of him.
Because........... Get this........ It's NONE OF MY F'EN BUSINESS!
I didn't say he had an inherent right to do that. I said he had a liberty interest in doing things you don't approve of (because of your religious beliefs or whatever). If he wants to beat his wife and rape his kid, what business of it is yours?
Again, your argument. Not mine.
Here you are again trying to state "my argument" for me falsely to *imaginate* something there that just isn't. You do that constantly you know that right.
But I'll tell you what you are doing specific to your own entrapment scam. You're also *imaginating* those crimes because no matter what you want to pretend is beating and molesting if the supposed victims do not feel violated it's not a crime against anyone but your imagination.
I mean, if I've got your argument wrong at some point along the line, you're free to correct it. Which I notice you don't bother to do.
If a guy beats his wife and rapes his kid, is it your business? Yes or no?
If you pretend a guy is beating his wife and molesting his kid but in *reality* is not … then NO it’s none of my business.
If the wife or the kid prove they were beaten or molested against their will and their ‘inherent’ rights (ya know; like owning their own F’En body) have been violated then YES.
Your narratives get funnier all the time by how they pro-port the curses in the foundations of your beliefs.
So lets say the voters actually own the wife and the kid’s bodies and gets to dictate them to do what they want them to do. If the voters say beating, raping and molesting children is A-Okay then it’s A-Okay because they don’t have ownership of their bodies anyway the general public does.
They don't have inherent rights, remember? Not if they require someone to intervene on their behalf for sake of their health and safety, or otherwise require life-saving measures.
Your argument, not mine.
What makes you think government intervention is required?
There's millions of ways for a person to inherently DEFEND their inherent rights without outside intervention. The very 2A was written precisely for this.
Where-as when gov-guns are used *aggressively* to *entitle* X to Y's inherent rights it's acting as a criminal not a defender of inherent rights.
They wouldn’t be separate them if the process killed the child. I k ow that snot a problem for you, as you are pro baby murder. For the rest of us, it’s a problem.
So oppressive that you can’t murder children, I know.
Now you're going to say dead people are but a part of the living? What is this re-run episodes of body snatcher?
Nothing quite so anti libertarian than restricting abortion. Nothing quite so Big Government. If you don't like abortion, don't have one.
If you don't like crimes against persons or property in general, don't commit them. Leave the rest of us alone who want to. Liberty. Privacy. Heard of them? Your rights aren't affected, so mind your own business.
I often find myself wondering if libertarians are really just nihilist/anarchists.
Pre-Viable fetuses have no inherent right to life.
The only 'rights' getting violated is the Woman being forced to reproduce.
Funny how you spin the very crime against persons you're lobbying for right on its head.
Why not?
Learn the meaning of the word 'inherent'. It'll go a long ways in distinguishing between a 'right' and an 'entitlement'.
I know the meaning of the word, as well as the distinction. But you didn't answer the question.
Why don't pre-viable fetuses have an inherent right to life?
Because they have no life outside of another person. And if you think that is false prove it. Fetal Ejection.
Here’s another one for you. People on life support also do not have an ‘inherent’ right to life. If the support machine refuses to work and/or the doctors all call in sick are you going to charge them all with murder? What about when family decides to pull the plug? Going to charge all them with murder???
I mean you wouldn’t want to be a complete hypocrite would you?
Why would we charge them with murder? Why are you even bringing legal crimes into the discussion?
You're conflating issues. Try to stay on topic.
The question you should be asking instead is: why do we utilize life support, doctors, or medicine at all? There are no rights in play, per your argument. So, why bother? They have no life outside of another person, right?
Suppose you're in my car eating a hot dog, and suddenly you start choking, indicating frenetically at your throat, and then stop breathing. I'm the only one there. You clearly can't help yourself out of your fatal predicament. I could help, I suppose - but I didn't really want you there anyway (even if I was the entire reason you were even there in the first place).
In that moment, you have no life outside of me. So, I don't interfere slightly with you asphyxiating. And I was just going to harmlessly eject you out of my car at high speed anyway.
Neither of which you should have any problem at all with. It's your own argument. You have no inherent right to life if you require life saving help, or if you're in a place of mine (regardless of how you got there) where I don't want you to be.
Want to go for a ride? I brought hot dogs.
Bingo………… You finally hit the nail on the head.
YOU don’t have a ‘right’ to life support and doctors. It’s the same argument Nazi-Leftards make about a ‘right’ to healthcare that doesn’t exist (outside actors) only it’s far worse. It’s a claimed ‘right’ to Women’s bodily functions.
Never-mind your wild delusion about pregnant women are cars going down the freeway at 80. That looses all accountability for being a complete imagination of a crime you made up. But it does entirely demonstrate the level of humanity / person-hood you're giving a Woman. (i.e. Nothing but a car)
If we have life support machines and doctors, should we utilize them? If so, why?
If you have a brain should you use it? Well, probably.
Should you be forced by gov-guns to use it by outsiders? No, that would be enslavement / dictation.
But this here [WE] (collective/communist) ideology is the curse. The USA isn't founded on the principle of [WE] ownership. It's founded on Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
Dodging the question again to set up some asinine framework that avoids it.
It's a simple question. You walk into a hospital, clutching your heart, and you collapse. There is literally a building full of technology and knowledge that might assist you in some way. Should that technology and knowledge be used in some fashion? Or should it and you be ignored completely?
You don't have any rights to it unless you own it.
Which is exactly what I said in detail.
But you won't listen because you are a bigot.
I didn't ask if you had a "right" to it. I asked if that technology and knowledge should be used or not.
And, exactly how am I a "bigot?" Who is it you think I'm bigoted against? Or are you just desperately reaching for the "nuke conversation" button at this point?
This is what you're doing. You are throwing away any variable you want and making-up your own variables that are entirely off subject. While insisting your own variables (80mph) are part of the equation and *real* variables can be ignored (law).
Like I said from the very beginning, You are playing the "1+6=7 so I'm right and your wrong." childish games.
You're talking to a lying pedophile
lol
Oh I know.
You, and Jeff, are totalitarian scum
You molest children
I think we can be pretty sure that you're an idiot.
Hey Fatfuck, are you samefagging? Or are you talking to a Shreek sock?
So it Shreek. Why does he bother with socks?