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Education

Of Course Legacy Admissions Should Follow Affirmative Action to the Grave

There is no reason for public universities to grant preferential treatment to the scions of their alumni.

Robby Soave | 6.29.2023 4:30 PM

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Harvard | 41581977 © F11photo | Dreamstime.com
Harvard (41581977 © F11photo | Dreamstime.com)

The Supreme Court has effectively ended race-based affirmative action in college admissions. On Thursday, the Court's six-justice conservative majority released opinions in two hotly anticipated cases—one concerning Harvard University, the other involving the University of North Carolina—ruling as expected that college administrators violate the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment when they cherry-pick the student body based on racial factors.

"Eliminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it," wrote Chief Justice John Roberts in Students for Fair Admissions v. President and Fellows of Harvard College.

This outcome is a significant victory for principles of fairness, individuality, and nondiscrimination. It corrects a grave injustice that has persisted for decades. In 2003's Grutter v. Bollinger decision, the Supreme Court permitted colleges to use race-based admissions as a method of promoting diversity on campuses. This rationale never made much sense; the sharper defenders of affirmative action had tended to argue that the practice was necessary in order to correct the historical mistreatment of specific racial groups, not because of "the bizarre jerry-rigged 'diversity' sham," as Freddie deBoer describes it.

As a result of Grutter, institutions like Harvard continued to practice race-based admissions in pursuit of skin-deep diversity. The obvious and inescapable result was widespread discrimination against Asian applicants, who would constitute a much larger proportion of the campus body if not for admissions officers' penchant for crude racial stereotyping.

The Reason Foundation (the nonprofit that publishes this website) wrote an amicus brief last year urging the Court to rule against Harvard and UNC. As Reason's Emma Camp noted, "At Harvard, an Asian American applicant in the top academic decile has a lower chance of being admitted than a black student in the fourth-lowest academic decile." These were immoral policies, and today's landmark ruling offers a long-overdue correction.

Race-based admissions policies were also decidedly unpopular; 69 percent of poll respondents, including 58 percent of Democrats, opposed them. Perhaps that is why some critics of the ruling are adopting such a curious line of attack. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.), for instance, took to Twitter to bemoan that the Supreme Court has ignored a more serious example of unfairness in higher education: legacy admissions.

If SCOTUS was serious about their ludicrous "colorblindness" claims, they would have abolished legacy admissions, aka affirmative action for the privileged.

70% of Harvard's legacy applicants are white. SCOTUS didn't touch that - which would have impacted them and their patrons.

— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) June 29, 2023

This is an extremely silly point. The reason the Supreme Court weighed in on race-based admissions rather than legacy admissions is that the former was the issue being litigated. For the Supreme Court to consider legacy admissions, someone would have to bring a lawsuit about this issue.

But supporters of nondiscrimination can further overcome this criticism by conceding a basic point: Legacy admission—the widespread practice of giving preferential treatment to the scions of alumni—is, in fact, unfair and should be abolished.

Hundreds of colleges and universities around the country grant preferential status to legacies, and even institutions that officially disclaim this practice may still engage in it. My alma mater, the University of Michigan, has stated that "legacy status is not a preference in the admissions process but does serve as context—outside of the admissions review—in understanding a student's interest." Inside Higher Ed found this statement to be far from clear, and some students have affirmed that they were, in fact, legacy admits.

Michigan is a public university, and as such, it is accountable to the state government. It would be good policy for state legislatures to prohibit public educational institutions from considering factors such as legacy status. Indeed, there is no reason for a state school—one subsidized by the taxpayers—to prefer applicants who satisfy academically irrelevant criteria. Let the very best and brightest students thrive on the campus.

The very fact that legacy admissions still exist is not whatsoever a reason to oppose the curbing of affirmative action; eliminating explicit racial discrimination is obviously a noble goal in and of itself. But to any naysayer who disdains the Harvard and UNC ruling by saying that legacy admissions should face the same fate: Your terms are acceptable.

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Robby Soave is a senior editor at Reason.

EducationSupreme CourtAffirmative ActionHarvardRacismCollegeCollege Admissions
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  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    My alma mater, the University of Michigan

    That explains a lot, Robby. UM is arrogance personified.

    1. SiliconDoc   2 years ago

      In 1960, state support accounted for 78 percent of the UM-Ann Arbor General Fund budget. It has dropped to 13% of the General Fund budget in 2023.

      1. The Last American Hero   2 years ago

        What percentage of the 1960 budget was for admin and facilities?

    2. BigT   2 years ago

      Don't hate Michigan.

      Pity Michigan.

    3. BigT   2 years ago

      I was in Grand Rapids MI over the weekend. At a piano bar they had a contest among college fight songs. They'd play one or the other depending on who put $$ into their hat.

      Surprisingly, the Ohio State fight song got played a lot, and the Mich State song was played the most.
      There were hoots at "Jail to the Victors". IN MICHIGAN!

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        I usually think of it as "Fail to the Whiners".

    4. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

      I grew up in Ann Arbor (/Ypsi) and my dad graduated from UofM in the 50s. Wasn't always a bad place.

    5. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

      Is Robby in denial as to the possibility of the experience of several generations of graduates imparting more to prepare an applicant for the possibilities of university education than grades nine through twelve alone?

  2. Dillinger   2 years ago

    legal tender reasons?

  3. Illocust   2 years ago

    Money talks. You keep the college running through mass donations they'd be stupid to not let your kid in.

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      Not really different from selling diplomas.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Don't forget the football and basketball D1 teams, with "student" athletes--and big alumni booster clubs.

      2. Zeb   2 years ago

        Not quite. They still have to actually stick it out for 4 years and meet academic standards (such as they are these days). And it's not just automatic admission for legacy kids.

    2. Nardz   2 years ago

      And legacy admissions' metrics and performance are statistically identical to general admission students.
      Maybe a 3.5 GPA 1350 SAT (using the 1600 point max of 20 years ago vs whatever the hell it is now) legacy kid gets in over a 3.8 GPA 1410 SAT general admission applicant. No biggie, and the legacy student will be more profitable for the school. That's a far cry from the 1200 SAT affirmative action admission who will almost certainly perform far worse than either legacy or general admission students.

      1. SiliconDoc   2 years ago

        The article cited legacy admission was 70% White, which is just about the correct percentage.
        If we include the spin in it, it's probably spot on for percentage of Whites in the USA.
        So perhaps the AA has produced a bunch of legacy admissions of the minority ethnic variety.

        1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

          How does that percentage compare to the percentage of non-white legacy applicants admitted ?

        2. BigT   2 years ago

          Basketball and football players kids are legacies. Hence the high pct.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        I didn’t read the case. Was it about legacy admissions in any way? If not, then why would SCOTUS bother to consider it?

  4. Overt   2 years ago

    Turnabout for AOC is fair play.

    If she was always so hot and bothered about "Systematic Racism", why hasn't she actually worked to- you know- dismantle Legacy Admissions, which does more to put the "systematic" in "systematic racism" than anything else? Instead she only wants to bitch and moan about how we need Affirmative Action.

    I'll believe that many of these people actually believe Systematic Racism is a thing when they start acting like it by targeting very specific examples (like legacies) and doing something about it, instead of placating the masses with generalized outrage fodder.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      Attacking specific things and/or people and identifying them as "racist" flies in the epistemological face of the "systemic" theory. It's why companies like Facebook (Meta) 'pretend' to be racist.

      Ok, if your company is full of racism, Mr. Zuckerberg, fire those racists and stop being racist.

      No, it's not that simple.

    2. Unicorn Abattoir   2 years ago

      why hasn’t she actually worked to- you know- dismantle Legacy Admissions

      Because it wouldn't increase traffic to her instagram page? AOC didn't run for Congress to actually do things.

      1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

        While any rhinoceros is real enough to merit an Instagram page., unicorns cannot look forward to reincarnation in the sausage factories of the future.

    3. Nardz   2 years ago

      Major DNC social media "influencer", worked for both Obama and Biden campaigns.
      One of those "parody is impossible" exhibits:

      https://twitter.com/ericareport/status/1674453321078415362?t=SD_wnKKEJLHSfw3PEUJB3A&s=19

      Today's Supreme Court decision is a direct attack on Black people. No Black person will be able to succeed in a merit-based system which is exactly why affirmative-action based programs were needed. Today's decision is a TRAVESTY!!!

      1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

        No Black person will be able to succeed in a merit-based system

        Is this person a Grand Dragon in the KKK? Sure sounds like it.

        1. BigT   2 years ago

          Yeah, that's incredibly demeaning to black people.

          1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

            It's a Democrat party troll account. Almost a parody of itself, it's so obvious. So... well, what do you expect?

    4. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      Instead she only wants to bitch and moan about how we need Affirmative Action.

      Probably because she was most likely an AA admission herself.

      1. Marshal   2 years ago

        This is their truth of race preferences. While they are sold as help for the downtrodden in reality the near exclusive beneficiaries are upper middle class mediocrities like AOC.

  5. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

    From Harvard's letter of response: "Because the teaching, learning, research, and creativity that bring progress and change require debate and disagreement, diversity and difference are essential to academic excellence." This after Harvard, amongst many others, has been squelching viewpoint diversity AND debate and disagreement for over twenty years!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/harvard-posts-letter-responding-to-supreme-court-s-affirmative-action-decision/ar-AA1ddEU4

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      Diversity and difference meant admitting Jared Kushner.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Is he MAGA? Because no elite university can live with itself if they admit some MAGAs.

  6. Sandra (formerly OBL)   2 years ago

    Reason.com is almost entirely dedicated to increasing the wealth of a billionaire who became a billionaire because of who his father was. So it's pleasantly surprising to see a Koch-funded writer deliver the correct take on people who get admitted to college because of who their parents are. 🙂

    #LastNamePrivilege

    1. Dillinger   2 years ago

      not to mention all the non-affiliated Kochs who suffer for their name

    2. Stuck in California   2 years ago

      Oh, Sandra, Koch would never trade on the family fortune for personal gain.

  7. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

    Legacy admissions has a closer relationship to athletic scholarships and admissions than pure race based admissions. There is no alternate explanation for your average student to be enrolled based on race while both legacy and athletes can bring significant resources and opportunities to the university.

    I get why a racist marxist like AOC wouldn't understand this, what's Robbie's excuse.

    1. SRG   2 years ago

      Why not go the whole hog and include "family ability and willingness to make contributions to the endowment" as a part of admissions criteria?

      1. BigT   2 years ago

        Willingness to pay the tuition?

        Get rid of federal support for education and things will greatly improve as schools abandon their luxurious dorms, climbing walls, cappuccino machines, and massage parlors. (maybe more massage parlors .... off campus?)

        1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

          It’s college. Massage parlors are unnecessary. It leas it wasn’t back in the 90’s before young men were so emasculated and fearful of #metoo.

  8. Mickey Rat   2 years ago (edited)

    Legacy admissions are a red herring. In principle, you can certainly argue that they can go. However, are they impermissible under statute or Constitutional law?.

    Various civil rights acts make race an impermissible category to base decisions on, and the 14th Amendment requires that those categories must be applied equally. In other words, discriminating against a person for being Caucasian or Asian is no more permissible then discriminating against someone for being of African descent. The whole argument of the Left here goes against the idea that individuals should be judged on their own merits in favor of a deeply illiberal notion of judging racial groups as if there is some hypothetical scorecard that past wrongs against one group can be made up by doing wrong to the other groups.

    If you want to do away with legacy admissions then work the Board of Trustees in the schools that have them. Pass legislation. Take the matter to court, even. But it is not the judiciary responsibility to rule on a question it was not asked. This objection is an empty "whataboutism".

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      When the legacy benefitted from discrimination, that is the very definition of persistent systemic racism, perpetuated for generations.

      1. BigT   2 years ago

        What if the legacy got in due to AA? or on a football scholarship? Those happen.

  9. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago (edited)

    I’m not enthused about legacy admissions, but if colleges want alumni to discriminate in their favor when making donations, the colleges should do something to discriminate in favor of alumni – it’s only polite to reciprocate like this!

    Maybe free or reduced-price online courses, so other students won't be affronted by the physical presence of legacies?

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      The difference between giving admission preference to children of rich donors and actually selling diplomas is vanishingly small.

      1. Square = Circle   2 years ago

        Do the children of rich donors not have to pass their classes?

        1. SRG   2 years ago

          We're talking about the opportunity to take the classes in the first place.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            He has literally said selling diplomas a half dozen times shrike.

            1. SRG   2 years ago

              I'm still not shrike. And, you evident fuckwit, I was responding to Square=circle

              How often has he literally posted about selling diplomas?

              1. Michael P   2 years ago (edited)

                Twice so far in this thread. How many times does he have to repeat himself before you notice?

                Correction, at least three: the third time he said "sell diplomas" (below) rather than "selling diplomas".

              2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

                Shrike, are you trying to turn this into a ‘I’m not Rappaport’ bit?

          2. Zeb   2 years ago

            By that standard, they are selling diplomas to anyone who pays tuition too.

      2. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

        There's always a danger when a university sells its services - throwing out a poorly-performing student will cause short-term financial harm. To be weighed against the long-term harm of being known for being too easy with "paying customers."

        One way to solve this problem (hypothetically of course) would be to dumb down the classes, or even whole majors, to reduce the risk of anyone failing (unless they make the mistake of undertaking a rigorous course of study).

        Of course, this wouldn't simply be a problem with legacies, but with the warm bodies with student loans attached.

        Ideally, the long-term interests of the institution could be preserved by obtaining such a reputation for rigorous and practical education as to attract enough good students to help pay the bills.

        1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

          Harvard, like many other Ivies opened an Extension School with low tuition and night classes decades before offering many famous lecture series free on line.

          1. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago

            Don't forget A Harvard Education in a Book (New York: Perigee, 1991).

            Though that may have been Harvard Lampoon.

            1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

              The Lampoon is a thriving testimonial to freedom of admission.
              America's founders had something to say about discrimination against the children of those of whom institutions disapprove:
              All Bills of Attainder are unconstitutional .

              1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

                The scary downside is that this applies as well to children of dropouts like Gates and Zuck

      3. BigT   2 years ago

        They still gotta do the work.

        At least at my school they did.

      4. Phanatic   2 years ago

        Why should Libertarians oppose selling diplomas?

        1. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago (edited)

          On principal it’s completely okay. That said, it’s also useful to have some system of credentials that can be trusted and verified. It would be nice if they were divorced from government as well, so you don’t have a regulatory body, but some tool you can use to vet applicants, hirees, and people up for promotions.

          If we overturned Griggs v Duke Power and let companies give IQ tests again, we might not need diploma factories anymore.

          1. DRM   2 years ago

            The hilarious bit is that the Griggs decision, as written, was just as hard on using educational credentials as IQ test scores. But one of those illegal practices the government actually prosecutes, and the other it doesn't.

  10. Honest Economics   2 years ago

    For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/

  11. creech   2 years ago

    Private colleges should be allowed to set whatever admission criteria they like. Just like a bakery or wedding planner or golf club should. Public entities, sorry no.

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Government subsidizes their loan. Fine if they stop taking subsidized loans.

      1. charliehall   2 years ago

        Private universities get even more in research grants.

        Banning discrimination is Big Government. I know that Libertarians will disagree but sometimes Big Government is needed.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Much if the research grants are government funded. They should be non discriminatory as well.

          I know you want to utilize government for social justice, but that is not a libertarian ideal.

    2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      True, but then private colleges should keep their hand out of my taxpaying wallet.

  12. (Impeach Biden) Weigel's Cock Ring   2 years ago

    Agree with this. You're either merit-based or you're not, it's wrong to try to have it both ways.

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      It has never been purely merit based. Everyone in academia knows that.

  13. JesseAz   2 years ago

    In the Roberts ruling his main issue centered around the inability if colleges and universities to quantify the benefit to a diverse student population. At least with legacy enrollment it usually is tied to school donations which is a benefit to the school. No im not for it, but it makes more logical sense than race based admissions.

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      Well then at least they should admit that they sell diplomas to the highest bidders.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Your arguments are fucking terrible.

        1. charliehall   2 years ago

          You are trying to justify systemic racism on the basis of profitability. I am not the one making the terrible argument.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            First define systemic racism succinctly and objectively. You arguments are fucking terrible.

      2. Smith1   2 years ago

        Although it has been said before, it bears repeating:

        Admission =/= Diploma

        There's a pretty big 4 year gap between the two that requires some work...

        1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

          The Chronicle of Higher Education says Trump's back yard university, City College Jamaica Plain, boasts the lowest 4 year graduation rate in the world: 4.7%

    2. Marshal   2 years ago

      The key difference is that it is permissible to discriminate for money, which literally everyone does by setting a price. It is illegal to racially discriminate.

      Like others I don’t support legacies. But there’s a difference between bad decisions and violating the constitution. That left wingers can’t tell the difference, and in fact support the far more egregious policy, shows they have no principles.

  14. Phanatic   2 years ago

    Of course there is: naked self-interest. Granting preferential status to children of alumni encourages those alumni to donate money.

    Why should a libertarian give a shit? You want SCOTUS to ban legacy admissions?

    1. charliehall   2 years ago

      A true libertarian would oppose any and all government interference in admissions decisions.

      A racist agrees with the Court decision today and defends legacy preferences.

      An anti-racist wants the Court to extend today's decision to legacy preferences.

      1. Square = Circle   2 years ago

        A true libertarian would oppose any and all government interference in admissions decisions.

        Including providing funding and loan guarantees.

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago

        Can't believe I have to repeat this, but your arguments are fucking terrible. Only dumbass who has agreed or defended you is shrike.

      3. Phanatic   2 years ago

        Legacy preferences aren't "government interference." They're universities engaged in pure self-interest. Why should libertarians be opposed to that?

      4. Think It Through   2 years ago

        OMG you non-ironically used the term anti-racist.

        Talk about a tell.

      5. Smith1   2 years ago

        Then an anti-racist has zero understanding of how our court system works. As mentioned in the article in passing, courts decide issues that are before them in litigation. They don't sua sponte issue proclamations on matters that are not in the record. I think you mean the "legislature" should pass a law that any school receiving federal aid (including guaranteed student loans) must abolish legacy preferences. You see, it is the job of the legislature to pass laws; not the supreme court...

      6. Will_Muny   2 years ago

        Right now, when I see a black person with a Harvard degree, I think, "affirmative action", imagine the Asian applicant, they replaced, and have lower expectations of them.

        Because of affirmative action.

        Hopefully, without it, I can think simply "Harvard grad", with all the good and bad that comes with it.

        Legacies keep alumni focused on the school their child will go to. And donating. Take that away, and how much will that end up hurting the school's bottom line?

    2. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

      Here is a hint, the writers here aren't libertarian. They'll mouth the DNC party line all week long.

  15. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

    Glad that race-based admissions is gone.

    Not so sure about legacy-based admissions for public schools anyway.

    Frankly, legacy admissions are a part of the fundraising pipeline. You could think of it as a kickback to the alumni donor, although it's not *really* the donor who benefits from their kids going to the same college, it's the kids. It's more about keeping the fundraising going with the next generation of the family.

    And to the extent that universities have a business model, they do have to consider how one of their "products" (graduates) is going to be used to generate "revenue" (donations) in the future. I'm not sure if this is a bad thing or a good thing, but it is a thing and it is worth considering.

  16. tracerv   2 years ago

    This is bullshit.

    How is Flounder supposed to get into Delta if they stop legacy admission.

    1. JFree   2 years ago

      How else is he going to be taught that being fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son?

      1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

        By the Founding Flounders, of course— Look what happened to John Adam's wastrel son.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        I dunno, it worked well for Jerry Nadler.

  17. Nardz   2 years ago

    Hahahahahahahahahaahhaahhahahahahaah

  18. JFree   2 years ago

    It would be useful, in a bomb throwing way, to identify whether legacy admissions are also legacies of former slave owners.

    Reuters just did that genealogy research for pols. Maybe the same should be done for all legacy admissions.

    As for there being some 'objective' 'merit' based reason for admission, the notion is completely ludicrous

    1. BigT   2 years ago

      This would probably reduce African American admissions to near zero. Almost all their ancestors in Africa owned slaves.

    2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      "...legacies of former slave owners. Reuters just did that genealogy research for pols."

      Turned out Trump is the only president who's ancestors never owned slaves.

      So sorry, JFree.

      1. John C. Randolph   2 years ago

        Slavery was pervasive throughout human history until the Quakers got busy lobbying the British government to stamp it out. We're all descended from slaves and slave owners. Trump's slave owning ancestors are just far enough back that records aren't available.

        -jcr

  19. SRG   2 years ago

    For some here, the argument appears to be:

    A: "Affirmative action should be scrapped - admissions should be colour-blind with no discrimination."
    B: "Agreed. And legacy admissions, as they perpetuate prior discrimination. should also be eliminated".
    A: "Oh, that's different".

    Getting rid of both is the right thing to do. No discrimination, nor perpetuation of it. I have sympathies with the -3 minority but the 6 have the point.

    As I noted on the Reason thread:

    Suppose: purple people have been significantly disadvantaged versus green people for decades, and colleges instituted AA policies to combat the disadvantage. Green students claim that AA violates 14A. 6 SC justices say, disadvantages no longer exist, 3 say that they do.

    Colleges now institute a policy of recruiting on potential, not achievement, and they build colour-blind models that consider not just grades but school district rankings, personal circumstances, etc and the models allow them to judge whether a student with poorer grades or achievements has greater potential than a student with better grades who went to a far better HS, etc. etc.

    It seems to me that this would be utterly unchallengeable – assuming integrity in the construction of the models and in adherence to the results. If it now turned out that because there were still educational disadvantages in the purple community, purple students would be admitted ahead of green students with slightly better performance, would such admission be unconstitutional under 14A? I don’t see how it could be, even though it would look very much like AA.

    And in response to the argument that achievement is actual while potential is only inferred:

    Potential is a real thing. And you can also do better than merely infer – because you will have had actual outcomes against which to test your model or other process. You may be able to say that on average a student from a school district rated D with an SAT score of 1200 will perform in college as well as a student from a B district with an SAT score of 1240. Consequently if you have one student from a D district with an SAT of 1210 and another from a B district with an SAT of 1235, you can say that on average the former student has greater potential.

    This approach handles both sides - if there is still discrimination, the acceptance on potential will have the effect of countering it, and if there is no discrimination, acceptance on potential will make no difference.

    To use a track analogy - if two HS sprinters are applying and one has a PR of 10.5s and the other, 10.6s for the 100m - but the faster sprinter has been able to have days and days of expensive sprinting clinics and all-year-round training, and the slower one has a crappy track and no outside coaching, any sprint coach would choose to accept the 10.6s sprinter, other things not listed here being equal. And that's not discrimination - except in the best sense of the term.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      To use a track analogy – if two HS sprinters are applying and one has a PR of 10.5s and the other, 10.6s for the 100m – but the faster sprinter has been able to have days and days of expensive sprinting clinics and all-year-round training, and the slower one has a crappy track and no outside coaching, any sprint coach would choose to accept the 10.6s sprinter, other things not listed here being equal. And that’s not discrimination – except in the best sense of the term.

      You just went through a lot of detail describing the factual circumstances of someone's running prowess, without ever mentioning race. The problem with your analogy is that's literally not what race-based admissions are doing. Here's what they're really doing:

      Here are a bunch running times for kids applying:

      10.5
      10.55
      10.6
      10.62
      10.57
      10.7
      10.75
      10.71

      then what they do is look over at the next column and see what everyone's race is.

      They then add 5 tenths of a second to anyone who's white or asian, then run the scores back through the sorter.

      If they were doing what you suggested, then the second column wouldn't have race, it would have multiple columns determining the individual experiences of each running to determine if there are any mitigating or enhancing factors that might be an advantage or disadvantage in performance. If you just note "black" and subtract 5/10ths of a second, or "white" and add 5/10ths then you are engaging in something we used to call "racism" but now call "race conscious".

      This kid was confused about his sexuality... what was the remedial therapy?

      We castrated him. We applied gender affirming care.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

        To add just one more post script to this, here's something that Harvard could do... while nudge-nudge-wink-wink still keeping race as kind-of-sort-of factor:

        Black kid: Son of a sharecropper. Mother was crack addict. Kid was removed from home and grew up in foster care. Was held back in second grade due to poor reading scores. Ran into minor trouble with the law in Jr. High. Got into program helping poor inner city kids, cleaned up his act. Excelled in High School. Honors, accolades, school activities, debating club, massive evidence of self-improvement. GPA: 3.95

        White kid: Daughter of TV Sitcom star. Grew up wealthy. Went to Brentwood high school. Not much hardship. GPA: 3.96

        They could pick kid #1 over kid #2, and never once technically consider race as a factor. Because it's ENTIRELY possible that you could reveres the race factor in the above two hypothetical descriptions, and the white kid would get bounced in favor of the black daughter of a sitcom star, because they automatically downgraded poor white kid, son of sharecropper by .5 points. Because race. That is essentially what's at stake here.

        1. SRG   2 years ago

          They could pick kid #1 over kid #2, and never once technically consider race as a factor

          FTFY. Because they're not considering race as a factor. If it turns out that a disproportionate number of sharecroppers' children applicants are purple while a disproportionate number of sitcom stars' kids are green and you have a model that effectively looks at prior outcomes for incoming "level" and so a green sharecropper kid with an SAT of 1210 gets admitted over a purple sitcom star kid with an SAT of 1230, then race or colour would not have been a factor, technically or otherwise.

          1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago (edited)

            Wait, are you claiming they weren’t taking race into a equation, but were picking out “sons of poor sharecroppers” and this way they inadvertently boosted their racial minority ESG score? If that’s the case, then why do they want to know your race on the application form? Why don’t they just have a checkbox for “son of poor sharecropper”?

            1. SRG   2 years ago

              I was describing how a possible system could work not how one does. I started with "suppose:" and took it from there. Nowhere did I say this is how it does work and I am surprised that you think I did.

          2. John C. Randolph   2 years ago

            Fuck the greens. They want us to freeze in the dark.

            -jcr

      2. SRG   2 years ago

        The problem with your analogy is that’s literally not what race-based admissions are doing

        No - the problem is that, unusually for you, you misunderstood the point, which is that if you adopt the "potential" approach it will look like affirmative action if there is existing discrimination but it isn't. I am proposing the potential approach as what should be a satisfactory solution to most - except for the kid and no doubt his parents who will be intent on not understanding why their kid lost out to a slower kid.

    2. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Yes. You have sympathies for the racist left. Agreed.

      1. SRG   2 years ago

        Not what I said, you zero-sum Oedipist But as you're intent on not understanding the point, there's little value in attempting to get you to.

        FWIW judging by SC decisions, the 3 in the minority are more centrist than 3 of the majority judges.

        1. Michael P   2 years ago

          Not what you said, but what you meant, and what we could all read.

          Looking at how blocs of justices vote is a good way to identify groupthink, not the public mainstream.

          1. SRG   2 years ago

            Not what I meant either, so clearly you can't read. I sympathise with people who attempt to right wrongs even if they may be mistaken and it does not mean I go along with how they do it.

            Given your claim to be able to read, where do I say anywhere that I actually agree? Sympathy does not, in fact, imply agreement because if I had meant that I agreed, why, I would have said so.

            Now do you agree that legacy admissions should be abolished? And note that you can agree while sympathising with people expecting to get in as legacies whose expectations would be dashed.

            1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

              Do gooding authoritarian slavers are still, well, slavers. Would you prefer Victor von Doom as your monarch? Or perhaps Little Bill as your town sheriff?

        2. damikesc   2 years ago

          "FWIW judging by SC decisions, the 3 in the minority are more centrist than 3 of the majority judges."

          I'll bite. How?

  20. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    This is a book.

    Like many Americans, Washington journalist David Neiwert watched with horror as the media and Republican politicians understated the threat of far-right militia groups and neo-Nazi organizations, culminating in the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., in August 2017 and the Jan. 6, 2021, raid of the Capitol to stop Congress from certifying the 2020 election results. But unlike most Americans, Neiwert has spent his entire career tracking the radical extremist members of groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. His new book, “The Age of Insurrection,” explains how small regional clusters of far-right libertarians and white supremacists have, over the course of a lifetime, gained enough power to pose a legitimate threat to American democracy

    Everything is a threat to Democracy. Democracy is under threat. It's attacking Democracy itself. Democracy is being attacked. In peril, our Democracy is.

    1. BigT   2 years ago

      What, did you miss that the 2020 and 2022 elections were not held? Democracy is over. White supremacists won - Biden and the Donkeys.

    2. SRG   2 years ago

      So because they're on your side of the partisan divide, they're not really a threat? Or they are, but you support the threat and wish that the media nonetheless shut up about it? Or what? Is the book wrong by definition?

      Or can you conceive of the possibility that because your politics are more closely aligned to theirs than to moderates and the left, it's more difficult for you to see them as any kind of threat?

      1. Terran   2 years ago

        People having opinions isn't threatening or harmful. Sometimes they're stupid, but a "threat to democracy" is a stretch. Or should be to any individual who values free thinking and high trust societies, so I see why you are pushing back on this.

        1. SRG   2 years ago

          Do people who commit extremist and violent acts have opinions? Can one in any way distinguish between the opinions they have and the opinions that people who do not commit such acts have?

          In any event, the issue is the risk or the likelihood that, given that someone holds extremist opinions whether of left or right, those opinions will eventually prompt them into violent action. Do you think that the risk is zero, or at least, equal to that from centrist groups, and that say, the Proud Boys present no more of a threat than followers of the Heterodox Academy?

          Is it conceivable that the subjective perception of the risk depends on one's political position - so a right-winger sees the risk from a far-right group as low/zero while the risk of violence from a far-left group is seen as very high, while a left-winger sees the risk from far-left groups as essentially non-existent while the risk from far-right groups is high?

          Of course both could be wrong.

          I certainly value free thinking and a high-trust society, but I am not so naive or divorced from reality as to think that opinions never translate into actions, nor that everyone is trustworthy. YMMV

        2. BYODB   2 years ago

          The face value irony in stating that differing opinions than your own are a threat to 'democracy' is not lost on me.

          One might even say that's the major failing of democracy, in that retards get just as much of a say as anyone else.

          If you think the common mans opinion is a threat to big D Democracy, then face the facts. You don't believe in that system of government yourself, so why pretend to?

      2. Marshal   2 years ago

        I find it revealing when people who whine that others can’t read turn around and demonstrate they can’t read either. It shows a certain cosmic justice.

    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      You only need to wade into Nardz's twitter feed to see examples of 'far right libertarians' that meet this description.

  21. Nobartium   2 years ago

    Legacy admissions will only die when said University is no longer a signal of status.

    And at no point before that.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Or when alumni fund raising is no longer an industry, with dozens of paid positions at major universities.

  22. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

    There is no reason for public universities

    FIFY

  23. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

    It is ironic that Harvard's last Harvard College educated president matriculated a century ago. His doctoral thesis , Νομοί των Αθηνών dealt with Attic legal oratory and its relation to Aristotle's Politics.

    1. Seamus   2 years ago

      JFK matriculated a century ago? And wrote a doctoral thesis?

      1. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

        Kennedy was President of Harvard— Who Knew?
        Pusey matriculated when JFK was 5 years old , and took over in 1953.

  24. Michael Ejercito   2 years ago

    Discrimination based on where one's mammy or oappy went to school is different than discrimination on the basis of race.

    1. creech   2 years ago

      Which one is unconstitutional? Or maybe it is the other one where you can throw a football 70 yards or dunk a basketball?

  25. Jerry B.   2 years ago

    Legacy admissions don’t depend on race. Just on who your parents are. Not sure there’s a constitutional prohibition on that.

    1. SRG   2 years ago

      And you'd have no problem with Federal legislation denying funds to colleges and universities which continue with legacy admissions, right?

      1. damikesc   2 years ago

        I'd settle for legislation to end federal funding for literally any reason whatsoever. Legacy admissions is just one of many I'd support.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        Is that part of the federal government’s enumerated powers?

      3. John C. Randolph   2 years ago

        More to the point, funding schooling is no part of the constitutional prerogatives of the federal government.

        -jcr

    2. SRG   2 years ago

      I am also reminded of the original grandfather clause, which was not racist on its surface - exemption from poll taxes and tests required in order to vote for people whose grandfathers had voting rights, - but as only white Americans had grandfathers who could vote such clauses were nonetheless discriminatory. So too with legacy admissions, though no doubt Thomas or Alito could find an argument to explain why the institutionalisation of discrimination nonetheless does not lead to discrimination.

      1. damikesc   2 years ago

        Has anybody ever --- literally ever --- ASKED them?

  26. The Margrave of Azilia   2 years ago (edited)

    There’s an unquestioned premise in the headline – that “affirmative action” has gone to the grave.

    Think of it like an American convict sentenced to death. There is a bit of a wait before the sentence is carried out, during which the convict makes all sorts of legal appeals, perhaps eventually succeeding. Meanwhile, he’s as alive as you and I.

    Or think about it like Freddie Krueger going back to his grave at the end of the movie, but in the firm hope of a sequel.

  27. JeremyR   2 years ago

    They are a way of fundraising. Alumni who stay involved with the university (like their kids going there) donate a whole lot of money

  28. Public Entelectual   2 years ago

    After two Adams and two Roosevelt Presidents, Harvard may be hard put to draw the line at one Kennedy.

  29. EdWard   2 years ago

    Exactly!

  30. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez @AOC
    If SCOTUS was serious about their ludicrous “colorblindness” claims, they would have abolished legacy admissions, aka affirmative action for the privileged.

    AOC learns the history of her largest donors and walks back comment in 3... 2... 1...

  31. Nardz   2 years ago

    Meanwhile

    https://twitter.com/Jordanpkjj/status/1674561600907534337?t=bKQKueyDXGfigRV0HC065w&s=19

    In 2021, a group of French military officers signed a letter to the French President that had received over 130,000 signatures, warning of a future civil war in France, and that if decisive actions were not taken, the Military would be forced to take control of the country.

    The letter stated that the French military was now composed of a "generation of fire" - a younger generation of politically motivated and patriotic soldiers who had seen combat and were ready to take action and enact harsh measures to save France.

    France today is on the brink of civil war, with mass anarchy & destruction in multiple cities.

    What we are witnessing are the dying breaths of a once great civilisation.

    There is no other choice left for the French Military, because very soon it will be too late for anything...

    [Video]

  32. TJJ2000   2 years ago

    Racist Democrats PROJECTING their racism on everyone else.
    It's so predictable.

  33. Azathoth!!   2 years ago

    Of Course Legacy Admissions Should Follow Affirmative Action to the Grave

    Why?

    Legacy admissions are preferential treatment for existing paying customers.

    They are the exact same thing that every other business does that has a customer retention program of any kind.

    They are not at all like the government mandated 'you must take unqualified minorities' programs that are at the heart of AA and the only reason they get mentioned at all is so that the marxists can include some class war in their race war.

    1. SRG   2 years ago (edited)

      Legacy admissions are preferential treatment for existing paying customers.

      Not just. They are also preferential treatment for the children or grandchildren of beneficiaries of discrimination – and hence discriminatory treatment against children or grandchildren of victims of discrimination. (The bolding of “hence” being due to the same logic being used by the majority.)

  34. mtrueman   2 years ago

    " It corrects a grave injustice that has persisted for decades."

    Decades? Try centuries.

    " The new Harvard charter of 1650 declared its mission to be "the Education of the English and Indian Youth of the Country".

  35. Marshal   2 years ago

    It’s wishful thinking to conclude the SC just ended race preferences in admissions. The racists who control the process will find underground methods to continue their plans, such as placing more emphasis on subjective criteria, like essays, and then rewarding those whose essays demonstrate their race.

    We’ve already seen this happening. Every measure of achievement is under attack so the racists can have carte blanche to admit those who conform to their race, gender, and political preferences.

    1. TJJ2000   2 years ago

      One of the blessings of Commie-Education.
      The next Gov-Gun forced UN-Constitutional entity that needs to go.

      People have an 'inherent' right to be racist on their turf. They don't have any right to use Gov-Guns against those 'icky' people. Gov-Guns are for Liberty and Justice for *all*; Not picking favorites and entitlements at the cost of others (by using Gov-Guns). Thus became about the very character traits of the [WE] identity-affiliated mob RULES (i.e. Democrats/Democracy) party. Their very foundational beliefs hold them in a identity-political RULES game.

  36. IceTrey   2 years ago

    Harvard isn't a public school. Isn't the libertarian position that private businesses can discriminate if they want to? Free association? Isn't accepting a student free speech too? Of course it shouldn't recieve any government funding.

  37. Bruce   2 years ago

    People go to universities partly as a networking function - they want to be connected to or know rich successful people.

    Legacy admissions may improve a student's chances of meeting people who are from successful families.

    Affirmative action does not.

    The "whataboutism" fails.

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