Trump-Appointed Judge Rules Tennessee's Anti-Drag Law Unconstitutional
Plus: Librarians take on Arkansas book restrictions, another migrant stunt may have originated in Florida, and more...

An anti-drag performance law in Tennessee has been declared unconstitutional. Tennessee's broad new "adult cabaret entertainment" law banned "male or female impersonators" from performing on public property or in any location where the performance "could be viewed by a person who is not an adult" if their performance could be deemed "harmful to minors" in any way. Violators faced criminal penalties, including misdemeanor charges upon a first offense and felony charges after that.
On Friday, a federal judge declared the law unconstitutional, on the grounds that it violates the First Amendment.
In a scathing rebuke of Tennessee's Adult Entertainment Act (AEA), U.S. District Judge Thomas Parker—a Trump appointee—offered a vigorous defense of free speech.
"Freedom of speech," wrote Parker, protects "the right to debate with fellow citizens on self-government, to discover the truth in the marketplace of ideas, to express one's identity, and to realize self-fulfillment in a free society."
"The AEA was passed for the impermissible purpose of chilling constitutionally-protected speech," Parker continued. While "Tennessee has a compelling state interest in protecting the physical and psychological well-being of minors," the law as passed is neither narrowly tailored nor the least restrictive way to advance that interest.
For one thing, he pointed out, the "harmful to minors" standard applies to children of all ages. The law also applies anywhere a minor could be present, without requiring that they actually be present there. That means things that might be inappropriate for, say, a 4-year-old would be illegal in places where even a 17-year-old might have a chance of seeing them.
"The AEA is both unconstitutionally vague and substantially overbroad," Parker concluded.
The judge dismissed the state's argument that the law was permissible because it dealt only with "obscenity which is the most patently offensive in its prurience." Parker wrote:
There is no question that obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment. But there is a difference between material that is "obscene" in the vernacular, and material that is "obscene" under the law. Miller v. California provides the standard for determining "obscenity" under the law…. Legal obscenity is an exceptionally high standard as one of its prongs requires that the speech "not have serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value."…Moreover, speech that is not obscene—which may even be harmful to minors—is a different category from obscenity. Simply put, no majority of the Supreme Court has held that sexually explicit—but not obscene—speech receives less protection than political, artistic, or scientific speech….Whether some of us may like it or not, the Supreme Court has interpreted the First Amenment [sic] as protecting speech that is indecent but not obscene.
Parker also pointed out that the "harmful to minors" standard could lead to discriminatory criminal enforcement: "The obscenity standard for adults already gives a lot of discretion to an individual officer's judgment on what she considers harmful under community standards." The "'harmful to minors' standard lowers the floor for criminal behavior, equipping law enforcement officers with even more discretion. The chance that an officer could abuse that wide discretion is troubling given an art form like drag that some would say purposefully challenges the limits of society's accepted norms."
You can find the full decision here. Chris Geidner has a good analysis of the decision here.
FREE MINDS
A group of Arkansas libraries, librarians, and booksellers is challenging a state law that they say "forces bookstores and libraries to self-censor in a way that is antithetical to their core purposes." Arkansas Act 372 makes it a crime punishable by up to a year in prison to provide, show, or make available to a child any item that is determined to be "harmful to minors."
"This will necessarily force libraries and bookstores to confine to a secure 'adults only' area—and so to segregate from their general patrons and customers—any item that might be deemed harmful to the youngest minor, even if there is no constitutional basis for limiting its availability to older minors or adults," states their complaint, filed June 2 in federal court.
Where libraries and booksellers lack the space or resources to construct "adults only" areas, their only choice will be to remove all materials which might be deemed harmful to their youngest, least developed patrons or customers.
By so broadly regulating the display of protected materials that are constitutionally
protected as to older minors and adults, the Availability Provision violates the First and
Fourteenth Amendments because it imposes a content-based restriction on speech that (a) is not narrowly tailored, (b) is overly broad, and (c) is vaguely worded.Arkansas knows that it cannot directly prohibit libraries and booksellers from making books and other items available to their patrons and customers on such a sweeping basis, as its prior attempt to limit the availability of material deemed harmful to minors (in a nearly identical law) was struck down by an Arkansas federal court as "facially unconstitutional under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution because such provisions are overbroad and impose unconstitutional prior restraints on the availability and display of constitutionally protected, non-obscene materials to both adults and older minors."
What Arkansas cannot permissibly do directly through the Availability Provision, it likewise cannot not do indirectly through Section 5 of Act 372, which requires that public libraries establish a process through which any "person affected by [a] material" in their collection can challenge the "appropriateness" of that material's inclusion in the library's main collection (the "Challenge Procedure").
Skye Perryman, chief executive of Democracy Forward, told The New York Times that "this is a case that has broad implications for not only the ability of people to access materials in libraries in Arkansas, but for overall foundational principles of our democracy. If this law were to go into effect, librarians could face jail time for failing to take actions that flagrantly violate the U.S. Constitution and Arkansas Constitution."
FREE MARKETS
"Today I met with over a dozen migrants who were brought to Sacramento by private plane, with no prior arrangement or care in place," said California Attorney General Rob Bonta on Saturday after a private plane full of migrants showed up in his city. "California and the Sacramento community will welcome these individuals with open arms and provide them with the respect, compassion, and care they will need."
The 16 people flown to Sacramento had been staying at a migrant center in El Paso, Texas. According to Eddie Carmona of PICO California, a group helping the migrants in Sacramento, they accepted an offer from people promising jobs and travel assistance. Instead, they were taken to New Mexico, then flown to Sacramento and dropped in front of the Roman Catholic Diocese, with no notice to anyone in Sacramento and no plans to help the migrants find their footing there.
Bonta claims this bait-and-switch seems to have been arranged and paid for by the state of Florida. If so, it would be the latest in a series of similar stunts the state has orchestrated. Last fall, for instance, Gov. Ron DeSantis arranged to have almost 50 migrants flown from San Antonio, Texas, to the small island of Martha's Vineyard. A lawsuit filed by several of the migrants claims that Florida officials "made false promises and false representations" in order to lure them onto the plane.
There is, of course, nothing wrong with helping migrants who cross into Southern border states travel around the country—or with giving other places throughout the country the opportunity to welcome more immigrants, who can be a net boon to communities who receive them. But the way these trips have allegedly been arranged, lying to the migrants and keeping the communities receiving them in the dark, needlessly makes things more difficult for everyone involved. And the underlying premise of treating migrants as part punishment, part political pawns is grotesque.
As Bonta said: "State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice, it is immoral and disgusting."
QUICK HITS
• Adam Smith wasn't a progressive. "Stop quoting him out of context on taxation, education, and monopoly," David Friedman writes.
• J.D. Tuccille takes a look at how the European Union's Digital Services Act threatens Americans' free speech.
• Someone in Utah is challenging the Davis School District's inclusion of the Bible and the Book of Mormon in school libraries.
• "Tupperware once revolutionized women's roles—in the kitchen and the country's economy—and sealed its place in American lore as a synonym for kitchen storage," says NPR. "It popularized party-style sales. Its plasticware is in museums. But now, the company faces financial peril."
• The Washington Post profiles Carly Ann Goddard, a 22-year-old influencer in Montana who is one of four content creators challenging the state's ban on TikTok.
• YouTube will stop removing content that promotes false claims about U.S. elections.
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Trump-Appointed Judge Rules Tennessee's Anti-Drag Law Unconstitutional
ADVANTAGE: DESANTIS
If this is just a lower level judge then there are just too many appointments to make serious ideological distinctions on appointing them.
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Ever notice how they always crop the crotch area on those photos?
Like being “pounced” upon, eh?
No.
Anyone who fails to recognize that the law was made to fail probably does not understand how politics works in TN.
We are an open primary state so much of what gets passed by the legislature is often nothing more than kabuki meant to fool the rubes.
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Can anybody explain to me this sudden fascination with drag shows/drag queens?????Most of them are hideous to look at.I remember when drag queens dressed in gorgeous gowns and well done make up.This crap is a travesty of drag queens,if that is possible.
Today I met with over a dozen migrants who were brought to Sacramento by private plane, with no prior arrangement or care in place...
And I subsequently reused them as a political prop.
"...with no prior arrangement or care in place…"
You mean like when they suddenly appeared on this side of the border?
"That's different!"
Since there are CBP facilities on the border with personnel who are skilled at intake and there aren't at a random Catholic church on Sacramento, yes.
I'm all for this kind of relocation if it's done transparently and funding is allocated to the community receiving the migrants. You know, like what cultural conservatives like to make 'whatabout' accusations at Biden with.
The lying and intentional chaos displays the cruelty of the people involved.
If this is so righteous, why do the people doing it have to lie to the migrants, drop them in random places without any communication, and hide the responsible party? It's almost like they know it's a political stunt that would blowback against them if they did it honestly.
The border facilities are overwhelmed and can’t host the number of crosses currently. What are you talking about?
Sacramento has immigration courts and officers.
https://www.justice.gov/eoir/sacramento-immigration-court
These people had already been released from CBP custody as well.
So Nelson is at best off point.
“We’re a sanctuary city*”
*reservations required.
Dumbass.
...flown to Sacramento and dropped in front of the Roman Catholic Diocese, with no notice to anyone in Sacramento and no plans to help the migrants find their footing there.
Sanctuary people problems, am I right?
It’s practically a new trail of tears.
The Bataan Death Flight.
They probably had to pay for their own cocktails.
They flew coach? Ugh.
Still better than Spirit Airlines.
You win the Internet for today!
California and the Sacramento community will welcome these individuals with open arms and provide them with the respect, compassion, and care they will need."
The Martha’s Vineyard treatment.
Pizza and troops - the new definition of compassion?
"See, this sanctuary is for the idea of immigrants, not actual immigrants."
lol
YouTube will stop removing content that promotes false claims about U.S. elections.
Finally, I can tell the public about the mind controlling lizard people!
As long as you leave out hunter biden
He's a lizard for sure.
Can I say Hunter Biden's laptop contains information about the stolen election?
No, just about all the photos of his lizard penis.
Crocodiles have two penises.
"But the way these trips have allegedly been arranged, lying to the migrants and keeping the communities receiving them in the dark, needlessly makes things more difficult for everyone involved. And the underlying premise of treating migrants as part punishment, part political pawns is grotesque."
Biden has done this, en masse, since the start of his administration.
The locales they are being sent to have zero place to complain. They are "sanctuary" cities and states.
Florida taxpayers have reason to complain. As does the federal government.
Desantis just recently won re-election won in an absolute landslide.
"Florida taxpayers have reason to complain."
But they are not doing so.
"As does the federal government."
On what grounds?
Biden has done this, en masse, since the start of his administration.
Cite? Is this the Biden is secretly flying immigrants around in the middle of the night belief?
You mean these?
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/immigration/biden-sent-70-secret-night-flights-of-migrants-from-border-to-florida
More than 70 flights transporting migrants from the southern border to Jacksonville have landed in the dark of night in recent months as the Biden administration struggles to empty overflowing border facilities, the office of Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said.
“Over 70 air charter flights [on] jetliner airliners coming from the southwest border have landed at Jacksonville International Airport,” said Larry Keefe, DeSantis’s public safety czar. “On average, there's 36 passengers on each of these flights. And that has been going on over the course of the summer through September.”
Checkmate, Dee.
Never mind. I know you don’t have a cite because it’s a bogus claim:
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/mar/16/tyler-kistner/claims-biden-secretly-flying-immigrants-us-cities-/
Politifact.
Politifact.
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/politifact
Fact checking sites display bias in what stories they choose to fact check, as well as how they interpret information. Often, fact check outlets will interpret information for the reader, drawing a conclusion rather than just giving the facts and allowing the reader to decide the meaning for themselves.
PolitiFact is a fact-checking website focused on American politics. It is owned by the Poynter Institute for Media Studies. PolitiFact's website describes its mission to "give citizens the information they need to govern themselves in a democracy." PolitiFact's "Truth-O-Meter" labels claims as "True, Mostly True, Half True, Mostly False, False" or "Pants on Fire." "PolitiFact.com is a project operated by the Tampa Bay Times, in which reporters and editors from the Times and affiliated media outlets "fact-check statements by members of Congress, the White House, lobbyists and interest groups," according to its Wikipedia page.
And Poynter Institute?
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/jeffrey-lord/2019/05/04/censoring-conservative-media-unreliable-poynter-institute
So in order to “champion freedom of expression” and “hold powerful people accountable and promote honest information in the marketplace of ideas” Poynter compiled a blacklist - sorry, that would be “list” - of over 500 “unreliable” news sites that were “built from pre-existing databases compiled by journalists, fact-checkers and researchers around the country.”
Odd that a fact-checking organization would have blacklists of mostly, if not all, one side.
As for Poynter themselves?
https://www.poynter.org/about/
Founded in 1975, Poynter is an inspirational place but also a practical one, connecting the varied crafts of journalism to its higher mission and purpose. From person-to-person coaching and intensive hands-on seminars to interactive online courses and media reporting, Poynter helps journalists sharpen skills and elevate storytelling throughout their careers.
Poynter programs like Community Conversations and our annual fundraising gala, the Bowtie Ball, create the opportunity to have thoughtful, civil discourse between journalists and their audiences. During these programs, business leaders, media executives, educators, journalists and citizens explore the issues surrounding journalism and the people who produce it. Speakers range from Washington Post columnist Kathleen Parker talking about voters’ concerns, to PBS NewsHour anchor Hari Sreenivasan commenting on the future of business and the economy.
Do you have ITL muted? He provided your requested cite.
Not that you care…
Mike only cares what the leftist narratives say. Why he chose politifact.
Perhaps he doesn't realize that there's a strong left bias there.
Yeah, he's got me muted. Screw that, I'll give the cite anyway. At least others can see it, and judge Mikey for the fool he is.
"...federal government pays for transportation, including flights.
The charter flights are not publicized and sometimes are done in the middle of the night..."
From your link.
You’ve obviously lost the tread of what was being discussed, so I’ll give a couple of quotes to get you back on track:
“lying to the migrants and keeping the communities receiving them in the dark”
“Biden has done this, en masse, since the start of his administration.”
Where, in my link, did someone lie to the immigrants or keep the people at their destination in the dark about the incoming immigrants?
Splitting hairs and stuffing straw, Laursen?
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/biden-admin-again-flying-migrants-who-cross-border-one-place-n1271211
Advocates say migrants on the flights often think they're being allowed to stay in the U.S., only to be expelled into an unfamiliar part of Mexico.
Now what mike?
"That's different!"
"Biden has done this, en masse, since the start of his administration."
As I pointed out above, the federal government tells the migrants where they are going, informs the receiving jourisdiction about the transfer, and has appropriate personnel in place to handle them.
If you believe that the honest and the dishonest versions of relocating migrants are the same, what does that say about your ability to identify dishonesty? Or, perhaps, about your inability to make honest comparisons? Or, most likely, your intentional blindness?
"The locales they are being sent to have zero place to complain. They are “sanctuary” cities and states."
If the states sending the migrants are willing to share the federal resources they receive, I agree they would have no place to complain. But somehow I don't see DeSantis or Abbott as willing to give up that money.
This is mostly false as the link i provide Mike shows.
The often utilize sponsors unknown to the illegal immigrants and they end up in places they aren't expecting, such as all the kids working in factories.
Why does your side of the argument rely on so many lies?
You have been debunked.
As Bonta said: "State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice, it is immoral and disgusting."
Cue pic of disgusted man with hands on hips, labeled "California taxpayer in prison for tax crimes".
J.D. Tuccille takes a look at how the European Union's Digital Services Act threatens Americans' free speech.
Don't even THINK of dressing as Indians and littering up Boston Harbor.
Cancel culture does in fact exist and is nuts.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/06/05/tim-minchin-is-right-cancel-culture-is-psychopathic/
It has become fashionable in some circles to pretend that cancel culture doesn’t exist. You’ll often hear, from figures in the media or the arts, that the crisis of free speech in the West is all just a right-wing myth, and that no one is really being silenced, shunned or hounded out of their jobs for straying from elite orthodoxy. The ever-growing list of cancellations never manages to dent this narrative.
Comedian and writer Tim Minchin, the man behind the new Groundhog Day musical, has had enough of this gaslighting. In an interview for Newsnight last week, he had some choice words for the ‘deniers’ of cancel culture. ‘My super-progressive lefty friends say, “There is no such thing as cancel culture. It’s just powerful people getting what they deserve.” I mean, that is gaslightingly naive’, he said. The policing of speech has now become so widespread, Minchin added, that he himself is ‘worried about being cancelled’.
He’s right. Cancel culture is relentless and cruel – and it is chilling free expression. It has nothing to do with holding the powerful to account. It is a weapon deployed by an intolerant minority to impose their beliefs on the rest of us. All this is obvious to almost anyone at this point. But the world of arts and culture has been particularly slow to catch up. Good on Tim Minchin for taking a stand.
It has become fashionable in some circles to pretend that cancel culture doesn’t exist. You’ll often hear, from figures in the media or the arts, that the crisis of free speech in the West is all just a right-wing myth, and that no one is really being silenced, shunned or hounded out of their jobs for straying from elite orthodoxy. The ever-growing list of cancellations never manages to dent this narrative.
It's Schrodinger's Cancel Culture--it's both a right-wing myth or a threat to Our Democracy, depending on the needs of the moment.
'Cancel Culture Doesn't Exist' - brought to you by the same gaslighters as 'Antifa is Just an Idea' and 'Mostly Peaceful but Fiery Protests'.
That's pretty good level 2 gaslighting, using the "It's not happening, and it's good that it is" gambit.
Cancel culture does exist. The right wing could employ it just as easily as the left (see Budweiser backlash). It's just that the right wing doesn't have the numbers of people to employ it that they would like.
And this Trump-appointed judge just struck s blow against Cancel Culture
Fight against DIE picks up steam.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_36f4823c-0184-11ee-99ff-0fbf1f6d848e.html
U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla. introduced the Fairness in Higher Education Accreditation Act, which would ban accreditation officials from considering an educational institution’s DEI or affirmative action policies when determining accreditation.
“Wokeness should not be mandatory,” Rubio said in a statement after introducing the bill, which the Florida senator argues “seeks to prevent a politicized Department of Education from further forcing diversity, equity, and inclusion policies into higher education.”
Meanwhile, the U.S. Supreme Court is taking on the affirmative action issue and may prohibit the policy. The high court is expected to issue a ruling in the coming weeks on the case, which considers the race-based admissions policies at Harvard and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Good.
U.S. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla. introduced the Fairness in Higher Education Accreditation Act, which would ban accreditation officials from considering an educational institution’s DEI or affirmative action policies when determining accreditation.
They need to go a lot further than that and ban the requirement for incoming students to provide DEI statements. If academia wants to require these, let them declare their marxism to be a formal religion, and then they can demand them under First Amendment religious protections. In turn, the right can then forbid the teaching of any marxist-inspired pedagogy in public schools as violating the religious freedom of those who aren't marxists. That way, if the marxists want to teach their religion in the classroom, they can set up their own private schools like the Catholics did in the US at the turn o the 20th century.
But the Catholic schools are getting public school funding from states right now. The Supreme Court will certainly allow Catholic schools to be federally funded public charter schools soon. That's the way the ball is rolling.
Now that sounds like some damn fine legislation.
Even better, as reported in the WSJ today, Texas has banned DEI policies and officials in state universities.
Someone in Utah is challenging the Davis School District's inclusion of the Bible and the Book of Mormon in school libraries.
The Bible dares to remind people that slavery was around before the transatlantic trade.
Also, it takes a dim view of homosexuality and crossdressing.
Seems fine to remove them as long as the Koran is also removed.
The most popular class at my Public high school was Biblical Literature. I actually learned more about the bible there than my previous 8 years in private Catholic school. Teachng was based on the writing, not the content so it was considered acceptable.
Yeah, I took a class like that in college that really dug deep into the texts, their symbolism, and their cultural/historical contexts. I actually used the research paper I wrote for that class as my writing sample when I applied to grad schools, even though it wasn't in the study I was applying for.
Odds there is a Koran sitting around in a Utah public school library?
100% since Utah has charter schools. Such as:
https://iqrautah.com/
Checkmate Dee.
Did Liarson play the race/Islam card and not have the manna necessary to activate it? Again?
"Someone in Utah is challenging the Davis School District’s inclusion of the Bible and the Book of Mormon in school libraries."
Okay, they don't belong in the CLASSROOM.
BUT, while I am not all that familiar with the Book of Mormon, the Bible is the single most influential work in western literature, with Shakespeare and Homer close seconds. So now, a high-school student who wishes to research language and symbolism in literature -- The Grapes of Wrath, The Pearl, as a couple of examples, will not have access to a bible in the school library? Will they also ban the Gnostic Gospels? What's next?
Summarily ridiculous. And I say that as an agnostic.
See my above comment concerning my public high school in ~1981 with respect to Biblical Literature being the most popular class.
++ Noted.
As a grad student in Medieval Lit, I had, on hand, four different translations of the Bible, plus the Gnostic Gospels, Bullfinch, Campbell, and other "usual suspects."
I've been doing a deep dive into Plantagenet England, the Crusades and contemporary Europe the past couple of months in my leisure time and it's amazing how so much of our history and culture have been influenced by these times but we don't ever learn about it. We don't learn about Wycliffe and Hus and their influence and persecution and how it influenced Reformation figures. Or learn about the evolution of the Magna Carta under the Edwards I-III) or how this influenced the development of Parliament, which was cemented under really began to cement its power with the abdication of Edward the II and the deposing of Richard the II and the election of Henry the IV. How the House of Commons came into existence under Edward the II and really began it's rise to dominance under Henry the IV. And how so much of this was influenced and correlative to the church schisms, the debates between Paul centrists and Peter centrists theologians of the time. Trying to understand modern Western politics and culture without studying the Bible and church history is as futile as studying the same subject without The Republic or The Prince. Actually, I would say it's probably more futile.
"Trying to understand modern Western politics and culture without studying the Bible and church history is as futile as studying the same subject without The Republic or The Prince. Actually, I would say it’s probably more futile."
Yep.
I have been told all the US history we need to know is in The 1619 Project.
We're fully in the throes of the current American Maoism, which deems that anything old = bad.
(The person who filed these requests doesn’t really want to ban the Bible or the Book of Mormon.)
Cite?
But the Bible contains examples of sexual perversion. To exempt the Bible from bans is Establishing Religion.
I write that as an Orthodox Jew.
Yes, I’m sure that suppressing the truth about slavery is this person’s motivation.
Cite?
We can't have children learning the meaning of the Good Samaritan, they must follow
templebureaucratic laws at the expense of doing right by others!Isn't that called censorship when you're targeting the LGBTQUIPWTF+ holy works?
This is just a wild guess, but based at least on some life experience, but how much do you want to bet that the person challenging the Bible and BoM in a school library also considers Florida's law on obscene material in school libraries actual fascism?
And not as an ironic lesson in the dangers of censorship but with a complete level of unironic hypocrisy.
I would put $100 on the "yes they are hypocrites" possession.
"Utah Parents United left off one of the most sex-ridden books around: The Bible," the parent's complaint, dated Dec. 11, said. It later went on to add, "You'll no doubt find that the Bible (under state law) has ‘no serious values for minors' because it's pornographic by our new definition."
That ignores the influence of the Bible throughout western history on our culture and politics. Also, the Bible isn't graphic when referring to sex. The Bible uses euphemisms, and is far from graphic, unless you consider the word lay as graphic, as in Lot laid with his daughters (Genesis), or the phrase had knowledge of (Matthew). And it's hardly riddled with sex. Anyone who tries to compare the Bible to contemporary books that contain graphic, to the point they can't be read on broadcast TV (which is an entirely different debate) or in open School Board meetings, is being purposely fallacious, it had never bothered to actually read the Bible and is taking someone else's word for it. I dare them or anyone to find an actual, graphic description of sex in the Bible. It discusses sex, especially in Leviticus, but it is hardly graphic, is usually either euphemisms or clinical in nature. The person who wrote the paragraph you quote is full of shit in their interpretation. The Bible is neither graphic nor devoid of cultural and historical importance. Maybe they were trying to make a point about the dangers of these types of laws but that paragraph is so obviously false that it makes a parody out of their arguments.
By far, and anyone who debates this is being purposely obtuse, the Bible is hands down the most culturally influential works on Western (and arguably Global) culture. If we expand it to include the three holy books of the three Abrahamic religions, nothing else comes close in the whole world. Not Plato, not Aristotle, not the pantheon of Greece, Rome, Iron Age and Migration Era Germanic peoples or Egypt have had as large or lasting impact on Western Culture and philosophy as the Bible. I'm not arguing this as a theists but from an historical aspect. You can't fully understand the Magna Carta and English Common Law without understanding the role of biblical and theological basis, you can't fully understand the Reformation, the Renaissance, Humanism or Enlightenment without understanding the debate and contrast between Paul and Peter. You can't understand Charles Martel, the Holy Roman Empire etc fully without understanding the schism in the early church, and the biblical underpinnings of these schisms (see again the debate contrast between Paul and Peter). Even a study of the Plagues from Justinian to the 17th Century plague can't be grasped without understanding religions role in people's lives and thus the Bible. Hell, you can't study western literature and it's evolution without some grasp of the Bible. Saying the Bible has no value for minors completely ignores that for a large part, the Bible is the underpinning and evolution of Western Culture.
And just a brief and very incomplete synopsis, of Paul v Peter. Peter viewed the early church is a very Jewish, hierarchal, rule driven movement, whereas Paul preached a much more individualist, personal faith approach. Peter won out in the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodoxies, but Paul was far more influential for Wycliffe, Huss and subsequent Reformation leaders like Luther, who were greatly influenced by Wycliffe and Hus by his own admission.
I would consider The Bible and The Book of Mormon to be reference books and their inclusion in a library a very reasonable. For that matter school libraries should also have a copy of the Torah, the Quran, and Bullfinches' Mythology. It would be good to include several Bibles including a Catholic, a Protestant and maybe a new age.
My Catholic School library had In the Days of Giants: A Book of Norse Tales by Abbie Farwell Brown, and so I know the real story behind Thor and Loki.
/Sarcasm on (for those who cannot detect sarcasm)
The bible is not appropriate for kindergarteners to third graders. Therefore it has no business in a school library or a public library. If parents want their kids to have access to the bible, they can buy one and read it to them at home.
In fact all libraries should have a locked adults-only section where you need to present state-approved picture ID to get in. Everything else should be pablum because some parent could get offended.
/Sarcasm off
++
And the person who filed the complaints against The Bible and the Book of Mormon probably agrees with you.
Do you know what bald assertions are?
For that matter school libraries should also have a copy of the Torah, the Quran, and
Bullfinches’ MythologyHomer and OvidBullfinch is a shit way to learn mythology. Samesies for Edith Hamilton and Abbie Farwell Brown. For Nordic go to the Poetic Edda, Snorri Sturluson, and Saxo Grammaticus.
Led Zeppelin for me.
I would consider "The Bible" and "The Book of Mormon" as turgid works of fiction and their inclusion in the Fiction section would not be reasonable as there are millions of better works of fiction out there.
"The Bible dares to remind people that slavery was around before the transatlantic trade."
And that it's perfectly fine, as long as you give your slaves the Sabbath off.
Actually, the Bible is pretty specific beyond the Sabbath about the correct relationship between slave and master, and it's pretty specific about how a master should treat a slave. Giving the Sabbath off is just one of numerous duties that the master owes to his slaves.
That's why in many slave states in Antebellum America, slaves were actually forbidden from studying the Bible, because comparing chattel slavery in America to the Biblical teaching on slavery demonstrates the fallacy that slavery in America actually followed the Bible. And it also explains why so many abolitionists were clergy.
Bankruptcies on the rise.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_dea59750-017f-11ee-b89d-c357926024d1.html
Commercial bankruptcy filings increased 31% in May 2023 from May 2022, according to a report from a company that tracks bankruptcy filings.
Total bankruptcy filings were 38,669 in May 2023, a 9% increase from April 2023 and a 23% increase from May 2022.
Commercial Chapter 11 filings had the biggest increase, according to Epiq's news release. Those type of bankruptcies increased from 332 in May 2022 to 680 in May 2023.
Individual bankruptcy filings increased from 29,559 in May 2022 to 36,345 total filings in May 2023, a 23% increase.
“Rising interest rates, inflation, and elevated costs of borrowing can represent a daunting economic challenge to struggling families and businesses,” American Bankruptcy Institute Executive Director Amy Quackenboss said in a media release. “Amid these sustained economic pressures, bankruptcy provides financially distressed companies and households with access to a release valve.”
Trump at work, assisted by DeSantis?
According to turd, but then turd lies.
Rig counts, unemployment (doctored) numbers and spitting tobaccy?
I'm not surprised. There were a lot of businesses that survived due to the artificially low interest rates of the last 20 years or so. Anyone with a lick of sense knew that the poorly managed companies that could survive only when they had almost-free money were going to go belly-up when they were exposed to a more capitalist environment.
" . . . seems to have been arranged . . . "
Passive voice supposition, the new standard in journalism?
"Oh, very well. 'seems to have been arranged, according to sources'."
Anonymous sources, thankyouverymuch!
Trump-Appointed Judge Rules Tennessee’s Anti-Drag Law Unconstitutional
Last I checked, judges were beholden to the Constitution, not to the person who appointed them.
Try harder Reason.
You need to check again; that was then, this is now.
There's an exception for far left judges, they are beholden to the Marxists cult.
Republicans appoint juges, democrats appoint activists
Republicans appoint white supremacist rapists. Democrats appoint crusaders for the social good and Mother Earth.
FIFY.
Sure, we’ll just ignore that in the real world many conservatives held their nose and voted for Trump because he promised to appoint conservative judges who would overturn Roe v Wade. And let’s ignore the real world activity known as “judge shopping”.
It is a relevant observation, when a judge hands down a decision that affects the culture war, whether that judge was appointed by a conservative or liberal president.
You mean judge shopping as in what the Illinois General Assembly is trying to force in their favor, and only in their favor?
https://www.wsiu.org/state-of-illinois/2023-05-26/lawmakers-ok-bill-to-limit-constitutional-lawsuits-to-cook-sangamon-county
Democrats who control the General Assembly muscled through a last-minute measure that will require any constitutional challenge to state laws to be filed in either Cook or Sangamon counties.
The Illinois House on Thursday gave final passage to a set of amendments to House Bill 3062, a measure supporters say is intended to put a stop to what they describe as “venue shopping.” The Senate originally passed the amendments on Friday, May 19, by a vote of 37-16. The House concurred with those amendments by votes of 69-35. It clears the way for the measure to head to Gov. JB Pritzker.
But both sides are bad!
I'd say that Pritzker needs to be shoved through a woodchipper, but the fat fuck would clog the thing up and break it before he got halfway through. Talk about a waste of good equipment.
A chainsaw might make him more digestible by the chipper.
Why contaminate a perfectly good chainsaw like that?
One Democratic county and one Republican county? That doesn't seem as ridiculous as the present system. If it were only in D counties (or only R counties, for that matter) it would be a lot more problematic.
Judge shopping warps things just as badly as gerrymandering, but for justice instead of representation.
What would the argument for unrestricted judge shopping be?
Except that the judges in Sangamon County are Democrats due to location (state capital).
Tell me you don't know anything about Illinois without telling me you don't know anything about Illinois.
Its plasticware is in museums. But now, the company faces financial peril.
No one cooks much less keeps leftovers anymore.
Tupperware is white supremacy.
I'm certain someone, somewhere, has said this and meant it.
And likely that someone was the Smithsonian.
"Airplane!" was just a comedy, people.
When they do they use a Rubbermaid or Glad branded container, which are sold right there on the grocery store shelf rather than having to be bought at a sales party.
"who can be a net boon to communities who receive them."
Such a net boon that the so-called "sanctuary cities and states" revile in disgust at the thought of having to accommodate less than 0.1% of what border states have to deal with.
Yeah, seems odd that literally no locale is happy to have them.
Every blue city mayor crying about the costs of just tens of thousands of illegal immigrants while millions go through the border since Joe started.
You know this how?
"California and the Sacramento community will welcome these individuals with open arms and provide them with the respect, compassion, and care they will need."
Pizzas and transport
"You know this how?"
The investigation is not evidence? Interesting.
Investigating what happened doesn’t equate to “no locale is happy to have them”.
Name one that did not ship them off as quickly as possible, whine that it is far too expensive an unfair, or complain that they had them sent to them.
Name one that ACTUALLY welcomed them.
Martha's Vineyard. They put them up for two nights and fed them pizza. That is not "as quickly as possible".
Now, they might have treated them nicely because the world was watching, but they still did treat them nicely. No matter how much the right wants to paint them as mistreating the refugees, the only one's buying that narrative are the right.
"Martha’s Vineyard. They put them up for two nights and fed them pizza. That is not “as quickly as possible”."
It WAS as quick as they could possibly remove them.
You holding them out as being generous and happy to see illegals there (in spite, again, of them tossing them out within 48 hrs) is a bit silly.
That isn’t what they said. Their complaint was the total lack of notification or coordination.
How much of that is happening in Texas?
Why did you leave out all the other blue city mayors complaining of costs?
They also wouldn't be initiating criminal investigations if they truly didn't mind, would they?
Like in Chicago?
https://abc7chicago.com/migrants-in-chicago-city-council-news-what-are/13321150/
"That isn’t what they said. Their complaint was the total lack of notification or coordination."
Like Biden's night flight of illegals to other cities?
Or, hell, the border towns being overrun as is?
They are not given notification or coordination.
“Like Biden’s night flight of illegals to other cities?”
Addressed above: the actual facts are regularly misrepresented by those with anti-immigration and/or anti-Biden views (as you have done twice so far in this comments section).
They're here, Mikey, but you've muted and therefore ignore any and all evidence that doesn't fit your narrative.
You ignored it above dumdum.
I responded to your addressing and you accused me of changing the subject.
Changing the subject by quoting your link, mind you.
“Their complaint was….”
I know, ain’t that hilarious?
Not surprising, since the border states get a huge amount of money and personnel to manage migrants. Pretending it's the same is pure hyperbole.
And pretending you’re a sanctuary city is pure bullshit.
The Washington Post profiles Carly Ann Goddard, a 22-year-old influencer-
GROOOOOOOOOOOOOAN
-in Montana who is one of four content creators challenging the state's ban on TikTok.
Still groan.
I would have also accepted "groaning intensifies."
"GROOOOOOOOOOOOOAN"
Hey, if we didn't have influencers how would you know about this awesome lip balm that she totally uses and loves or the cute outfit that's only $25 at Old Navy or the amazing opportunity to work from home and make $15,000 a month (just click the link)?
YouTube will stop removing content that promotes false claims about U.S. elections.
They already think Democrats are going to lose the next presidential election???
They left up the claims from the left the entire time.
Of course they did.
Probably because the 'free and fair' side has all the hard evidence and, despite massive and expensive efforts to generate a body of evidence to refute them, the 'stop the steal' side has nothing credible.
Ignores the numerous court rulings of the last two years that have ruled the changes in law were violation of state and federal constutions, but sure no evidence.
Also ignores several peer reviewed articles that conclude that these same changes likely played a significant role in deciding key battleground states, and thus the outcome of the 2020 election. Also, ignores a plethora of sources that show how the rules were applied differently in the same state between districts, and how this may also likely have impacted the outcome in swing states. Yeah, very little (though not no evidence) evidence of people casting false ballots (albeit, in the case of Pennsylvania and Arizona several key districts illegally destroyed ballots or mixed them making a true audit impossible, ergo lack of evidence does not equal no evidence) but evidence (arguably) that illegal rule changes (as ruled by both state and federal courts over the past two years) benefitted certain areas and voters, over other districts and voters, and therefore had larger influences on the outcome than under previous rules. I hardly consider that lack of evidence. Maybe contradictory or contentious evidence but still evidence. Evidence isn't less evidence because you fail to accept it, and this goes for both those who blindly argue (like you appear to do) that 2020 was completely clean and beyond reproach and those who blindly argue that 2020 was an outright fraud. By focusing solely on fraudulent ballots, you miss a far larger picture, and thus, falsely portray the arguments of your opponents. Additionally, ignoring that there were valid reasons to question certain aspects of 2020, and that in at least some cases, the lack of evidence isn't conclusive as the very method necessary the gather such evidence was destroyed or mishandled to such a degree that it is nearly impossible to prove malfeasance. This doesn't necessarily mean there was malfeasance, just that the lack of evidence is not conclusive and cannot be declared conclusive, ever.
"changes in law were violation of state and federal constutions, but sure no evidence."
We can get into those weeds later if you want. But that isn't the flaw in your argument. This is:
The changes, even the ones that eventually lost in court, didn't change the status of any voters. They invalidated methods of voting, not voters.
So more legal voters who legally cast their ballots, per the rules that were active at the time, voted for Joe Biden than Donald Trump.
The argument you're making is that legal voters who followed the rules should be disenfranchised. They aren't psychic, so they couldn't know that a few of the rule changes would lose in court in the future.
Joe Biden got more legal, intentionally cast votes than Donald Trump. More voters chose Joe Biden than Donald Trump.
You would have to show that the voters who cast their ballots for Joe Biden in a legal way wouldn't have used a different legal way to cast their ballot if the rules followed all of the eventual legal decisions.
In other words you'd have to prove that those voters, if deprived of the means they used to legally vote in the election, would have chosen not to vote at all rather than follow different rules to vote for Joe Biden.
Unless you want to argue that legal voters who legally cast their ballot according to the rules should be disenfranchised?
Now do the massive Russian online propaganda that maybe a few dozen voters saw in 2016, but still swayed the entire election.
And like it or not, the perception of the legal sanctity of the voting process matters. IMO the only valid reason to hold elections with broad participation is to promote acceptance of the result by the population.
"Now do the massive Russian online propaganda that maybe a few dozen voters saw in 2016, but still swayed the entire election."
It didn't.
"And like it or not, the perception of the legal sanctity of the voting process matters."
And the legal sanctity of the voting process survived intact. That's what happens when the legal process is allowed to play out, like it did in 2020. Neither potential nor perception are more important than actual disenfranchisement of people who followed the rules.
"IMO the only valid reason to hold elections with broad participation is to promote acceptance of the result by the population."
And yet the presidential election with a participation rate second only to 1960 has a dedicated cohort that refuses to accept it, despite overwhelming evidence it was valid.
Didn't change the results.
Sore loser, give up. The moral degenerate was rejected by the American people.
The left side has concrete evidence of Russian collusion? On Tape and uploaded to YouTube? Why the fuck didn’t Mueller use that?
https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1665713835687264266?t=ehqEiQvByN5YX76oVaC5OQ&s=19
This is what companies like Target and Budweiser support
This is what the US Government wants for your kids
Not some moderate version of this, there is no moderate version of this
This is what Pride is, this is what they want
[Video]
Why do you hate knowledge?
/jeff
"Knowledge is good"
Faber College motto.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Sevo mops splooge up at the Tenderloin gay bath houses every night in San Fran amongst the “elites” that run the city. He silently rages against “the system” as he squeezes each mop into a collection bucket. He prizes each bucket as his contribution to ending the parade of progressive California voters that infuriate him.
Sevo was once a lover of beat poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti but like Michael Savage before him began to rage against the men who taught him the ways of homosexual evil.
Now he works daily to rid the city of future deviants.
How unoriginal. You got that on quick copypasta somewhere, Turdo?
I wrote it last week, you moron.
Meanwhile your retarded bro Sevo has been posting the same exact shit for two years or more.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
And the brain-dead shit pile is too stupid to be embarrassed.
Yes, last week...
And the week before that, and you paste it constantly. Question, do you eat the paste when you copy it here over and over again?
well, turd does lie. It's what turd does.
Remember that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Did they have to use such a big, gas guzzling truck to stage their bondage whipping session? I mean, come on we're in an environmental crisis! At least use a hybrid or something. I’m literally shaking right now.
This is a pretty common pattern with the queer movement--they end up having to tone down a lot of the deviancy that's inherent in the culture in order to make it more palatable to normies, such as when the pedophiles were marginalized during the 80s and 90s after being a rather notable leg of the stool in the 1970s. Currently, they are trying to normalize pedophilia again, but in the context of it being a "liberating" function for people to "be their authentic selves without feat."
Along with this, the current elements are the movement going all-in on convincing kids they are born in the wrong body and need to have their genitals removed. Depending on how hard the backlash is, that will be suppressed until they feel they can start re-introducing it through the prism that not doing so isn't "compassionate."
Note also the current shibboleth of "trans joy" being employed in recent media articles. This is related to a similar one for black people that cropped up in mass media during the Floyd riots. The idea here is that people who are "marginalized" deserve to exist in a state of perpetual bliss and euphoria like they imagine the demiurge of "white male supremacy" operates, or they are being oppressed. That's why we inevitably see this ideology of perpetual revolution being pushed, because reality doesn't conform to the insane, utopian idea that you should be inordinately happy every second of the day you are awake.
Due to biomechanics and mental dysfunction the castrated gender warriors and the cowering climate catastrophists cannot or will not reproduce. The only way to keep their progressive movement alive is through indoctrination of normies, thus their dedication to coopting education and extreme propaganda.
That's why they call anti-groomer laws "trans genocide"--because if you prevent them from brainwashing your kids, they can't reproduce.
What's your problem?
"It's not sexual!!!1!" say the perverts as they display their kinks.
Uncivil War.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/opinion/article_5603be98-0186-11ee-b920-57546ca9b0b7.html
America was built on cultural battles. From the Civil War of the 1860s to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s to the dropouts vs. drop-ins, to the war against censorship, we've defended our beliefs. Culture wars have been an intricate part of the evolution of this country. These wars had something in common. They were periods in our history that left cultural and sociopolitical marks on America.
In recent years, a new cultural battleground has emerged in the U.S: the “Wokes against America." This has pitted those who advocate for social justice and wealth equality against those who support America's moral and social values and traditional institutions. This conflict has ignited battles from social media to corporations. It's turned Congress into a circus and it's destroying our legal system.
The wokes' war against our nation is over capitalism itself. It is a war against those who believe the American dream was built on opportunity and those who say America was built on racism. Wokes are at war with those who salute the flag because they chose to take a kneel. They are at war with those who love America. The wokes' America is a nation that's filled with White supremacist racists.
All totalitarian states silence those who challenge their propaganda. Opinions that praise the police, question sex changes, or election integrity and anything considered un-woke don't get past the big tech censor giants. What's more scary is, we know it and don't fight back and accept it as the norm.
Those that express views contrary to woke culture are canceled out. They are being fired, kicked off of social media, and deprived employment. Woke corporations do what wokes tell them to do to please big government. Those who don't comply are berated on social media, TV, in liberal news and by government.
The "Woke uncivil War" is not fought with bombs, tanks and guns. It is fought with the people that we elect. If we elect the wrong people, we will be handing the wokes a victory on the battlefield and an army in Congress to continue turning our sacred republic into a woke wonderland. Lenin proved that promises were made to be broken when the Bolsheviks controlled Russia. Lenin was a cancer that infected Russia and it has never been free since. It's time we realize what America will be like if the wokes win this uncivil war.
“Woke corporations do what wokes tell them to do to please big government.”
All the evidence points to the people who run those corporations as being part of the whole mob, not just succumbing to their pressure.
"There is, of course, nothing wrong with helping migrants who cross into Southern border states travel around the country . . . "
Other than becoming an accessory after the fact - - - - - -
Hint:
Migrant: someone who enters a country legally.
Criminal: someone who illegally crosses a national border.
So you're saying whoever flew them to Sacramento is guilty of a crime? I'm not sure how moving them from Texas to California aids or abets their illegal border crossing.
A migrant is someone who migrates. The legality isn't relevant.
Of course we could do the libertarian thing and change the laws so those people wouldn’t be “criminals”.
So you think you should just be able to walk into Mexico as well? With your guns and ammunition (should you have any), Dee?
Mexico ought to, yes.
And you can pretty much walk in to the border zone. Usually don't even have to roll down the window if driving in. Technically you need a permit to go past the internal checkpoints but the permit is trivial to get, a few bucks, and there is no quota or waiting period.
They do have a very non-libertarian attitude about guns. The occasional spot check of a trunk or handbag is for guns; they're taking the "low probability of getting caught by incredibly severe consequences if you do" approach.
That's why I asked him (he'll never see it as he's muted me): https://goo.gl/maps/YFT4pNFTJGhseJ6N9
Why wouldn't he think that?
"Of course we could do the libertarian thing and change the laws so those people wouldn’t be “criminals”."
Yet when Democrats have both Houses and the WH, they never seem to find it a necessity to do so.
Is that supposed to be a gotcha because I’m supposedly a Democrat? I’m not.
You just support all their politics.
Democrats are too far to the right for Liarson.
Like with shoplifting?
Rule of Goats
If transporting them is a crime, and you do it, then you’re a criminal. It doesn't matter whether you’re a pro-immigrant activist trying to help them, or a conservative politician trying to show up hypocrites.
I don't think it is a crime, is it? Crossing the border illegally is a criminal act, but I don't think simply being in the country is, is it? I thought it was a civil thing.
AFAICT, it’s about intent. IANAL but I do live in a border county where this is everyday stuff and I’ve seen how people and cops behave.
Going out to McDonald’s with your illegal friend: no problem.
Driving northward through a checkpoint with your illegal friend sitting openly in the front seat: no problem for you as long as you don’t lie. Your friend might get taken, or you might be given the option to turn around, but you’re fine.
Driving northward through a checkpoint with your illegal friend curled up in the trunk: You’re in trouble. Maybe more trouble than your friend.
Driving northward with a van full of illegal people you don’t know who paid you to take them northward, even not at a checkpoint: You’re in trouble, probably way more than the people you are carrying.
So, sounds like helping them to evade immigration enforcement is illegal, giving them a ride is not.
BTW, a lot of these stories about busloads/planeloads of migrants are about people who’ve been given some kind of parole or temporary deferment. Our governor Greg Abbot may be an asshole but he’s intelligent and law abiding. I was just pointing out to Long that if flying them was illegal you couldn’t get out of it by saying you were making some kind of point about sanctuary cities being fake.
If they’ve already crossed the border, shuffling them from one local to another (by the government) hardly seems to matter.
Right. At the point they’re being transported, after being released by CBP, they’re no longer “illegal immigrants,” they’re “in-limbo”
illegalimmigrants (who should be detained/deported awaiting their trial, but I digress).The decision you describe is not a vigorous defense of free speech, it is a vigorous defense of legal specificity. "Void for vaugness" would seem to be the conclusion.
The stated rationale for the law is identical to provisions that restrict minors from strip clubs. The law as written was deemed to be poorly drafted.
If that is the actual ruling, your analysis is just silly. Restrictions on bawdy material for kids is hardly controversial in constitutional law... or really among free speech advocates.
Team based politics is stupid, and it makes people reach for bad conclusions. The only real reason to be cheering for 43 year old men in campy dresses humping in front of elementary school kids is because you imagine your political enemies find it objectionable and you feel compelled to take the opposite side.
The last couple of years of political provocation and reaction has led to people taking some absolutely indefensible public positions - and defending them with a passion that is sometimes unhinged. The folks going to the mattresses to defend books for grade school kids depicting grown men receiving oral sex from children in a positive light.
https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1665699886090829824?t=GlB_TUrN1furllEhJNRfNA&s=19
INSANE: Tempe AZ’s first annual ALL AGES “Pride Party” featured a LGBTQ rapper performing songs about GAY/ANAL SEX and converting straight men GAY through sex acts to a crowd that included INFANTS & CHILDREN
LGBTQ ADULTS can be seen dancing along with kids, alcohol was sold
[Link]
I don't think it would have been significantly better for the kids if the rap were about heterosexual buttsex. So the all caps "GAY" is kinda funny.
"So I plowed her back forty,
if you know what I mean;
I drove her Hershey highway
and delivered my seed!"
That’s stupid.
You can’t convert someone to be gay/straight just by fucking them.
Maybe if they are under 10.
The folks going to the mattresses to defend books for grade school kids depicting grown men receiving oral sex from children in a positive light.
You are referring to Gender Queer? It has always been recommended for ages 15+. It has never been recommended for grade school kids.
And it is completely understandable why some parents might object to their kids reading a book like this.
So how about this. Don't remove the book entirely from the library, but instead, if a student wants to read one of these controversial books, they have to get parental permission first.
Sound good to you?
No, I don’t want the government to enforce standards of public morality, even on private property. Everything should be a free for all, everyone can do whatever pops into their head, without repercussions. Especially with your mother.
Yet you got outraged just a year ago when Florida passed a bill making sure it wasn't available for elementary or middle school.
"So how about this. Don’t remove the book entirely from the library, but instead, if a student wants to read one of these controversial books, they have to get parental permission first."
Parents could not take them to a library in the area instead?
Why MUST it be in a school?
How else would someone like Jeffy groom them?
Well said.
If enbs kid is groomed and the assaulted I would not care. Same with all the other woke parents.
The kid can't choose his parents.
The stated rationale for the law is identical to provisions that restrict minors from strip clubs.
A drag queen is not per se equivalent to a stripper. The Team Red politicians are trying to equate the two via legislation. That is the problem here.
You have been given evidence and pictures many times sea lion.
Not all drag shows are sexual. A lot are. Your refusal to admit this shows your disingenuous nature.
The drag queen with the large, prosthetic boobs that Reason chose for the picture for this article would seem to point to an exaggerated sexualized look that is more provocative than parody, especially for young children.
So we're tossing the duck test in the name of equity?
Be careful what you wish for.
Why do you think a drag queen is equivalent to a stripper?
Why do you think they aren't?
Have you every seen the Yale Hasty Pudding shows?
https://www.hastypudding.org/hasty-pudding-theatricals/
tasteless but hardly a strip show.
Because both engage in adult entertainment, usually dressed in provocative clothing, provocative language and body movements, to say nothing of the alcohol served with their respective establishments (or smoking permitted).
Again you can take the equity approach by simply telling everybody else not to believe their own lying senses.
It is always curious when an anti-person who is against drag performance describes drag performance as “provocative”. It reveals something about the feelings that person is experiencing when witnessing drag.
One can describe something as provocative even if it doesn't affect that one. It's the action, not the feeling, Dee.
No, it really doesn't. Drag queen performances are an inherently sexual type of performance and always has been. It's not simply cross dressing. That's the point of it, that's why people like it, that's why people do it. It's not a criticism of drag or the people who do it. It's just what it is. Some things are not for kids.
I really don't think a law should be necessary. And I still think it probably isn't. But if these fucking assholes keep pushing drag queen story hour for kids, that is what is going to happen.
I really don’t think a law should be necessary. And I still think it probably isn’t. But if these fucking assholes keep pushing drag queen story hour for kids, that is what is going to happen.
^
And unfortunately, there's really no downside for political progressives if there's an anti-trans/anti-gay/anti-drag backlash, as it will "prove" the bigotry of their opposition and justify all the apocalyptic language about the "community under attack."
“That is the problem here.”
Lol. No, that is not the problem here.
That was my thinking as well. If ENB's description is accurate, and I have no reason to think it is, I would hope a conservative judge would strike it down.
https://twitter.com/CBHeresy/status/1665577809689952257?t=axmQ9huMc7lWk-3ixp-QHQ&s=19
This was the result of a project a team of 4th grade students assigned their students.
This is what indoctrination looks like.
[Pics]
4th grade? Looks like 1st graders work,
No child left behind.
No child's behind left (alone).
Make cash online from domestic additional cash more than $21000 to $25000. Begin getting paid each month Thousands Dollars online. I have gotten $26000 in this month by fair working online from domestic in my portion time. each individual effortlessly do this work by.
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>>>>> http://bitly.ws/G578
On the censorship front…. Twitter has a better version. “The answer to bad speech is more speech”.
So they have community notes. They require people of opposing points of view to agree, so there is some degree of resistance to becoming the propaganda that characterizes “fact checking” in the US.
Here are some pretty good examples of community notes on Trump posts
https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1665414600513273856?t=JE731cF90HjEiSdeL1XC5A&s=19
Revenge of the Normies.
https://nypost.com/2023/06/04/this-pride-month-its-the-revolt-of-the-normies-as-americans-reject-extremism/
A popular slogan on the right is “Get woke, go broke,” but until the last few weeks, there was meager evidence in support of this proposition.
Attempts to organize consumer boycotts of “woke” products or companies, like the NFL after Colin Kaepernick’s kneeling for the national anthem, usually fizzled after having little effect.
Then came the Bud Light debacle, in which Anheuser-Busch sought to leverage the sensation of the trans celebrity “influencer” Dylan Mulvaney with a specially labeled can produced just for Mulvaney, which Mulvaney embraced to the hilt on Instagram and elsewhere.
Barron’s reports that several analysts think the shift away from Bud Light may be enduring, possibly making the micro-targeted Mulvaney promotion the single greatest brand-killing marketing blunder since the Ayds diet plan in the 1980s.
Someone in Target’s marketing department apparently decided to say, “Hold my Bud Light,” and emulate this consumer-alienating strategy.
This moment seems different: A line has been crossed, and “normies,” for lack of a better term for traditional middle-class Americans, are saying, “Enough.”
It is worth noting that by the time of the Supreme Court’s 2015 Obergefell decision legalizing same-sex marriage, public opinion had come to support the idea, after having been strongly opposed just 20 years ago.
But the current push on behalf of gender fluidity differs fundamentally from previous “liberation” movements, as it requires a wholesale denial of human nature itself and demands conformity to this radical view.
Americans have largely been tolerant of individuals previously described as “cross-dressers,” but what explains the adamant insistence on performing “drag queen” exhibitions for children?
Why the ferocious suppression of dissident voices in the medical community about aggressive medical interventions to children whose brains and personalities we know are far from fully developed?
"Get woke, go broke" was never about boycotts or organizing anything. It was primarily about making an inferior product to appease the woke, and in turn chasing away the much larger portion of your customer base that does not subscribe to their philosophy.
The loudest of these examples come from Hollywood. Gender swapping and neutering old heroes in sequels, ruining popular franchises with terrible writing that clearly has the primary objective of delivering "the message" instead of entertaining an audience.
Declining returns on reliable money-makers have impacted the bottom line, but big studios like Disney don't seem to have gotten the message as of yet.
This DEI stuff has finally pressed things into an informal boycot situation, but it is an entirely organic response of revulsion to insults directly aimed at the customer, not so much an organized boycott called for by some leadership.
Universal seems primed to take over the top spot for kid movies. They've been releasing a lot of family friendly crowd pleasers recently.
Declining returns on reliable money-makers have impacted the bottom line, but big studios like Disney don’t seem to have gotten the message as of yet.
Oh, they've gotten it--these people aren't stupid, just evil. Iger and the board simply believe that they can keep getting unlimted funding and credit from Blackrock, Vanguard, and financial firms such as Goldman and Bank of America until the larger culture finally accepts the New Normal.
Remember, that in progressive "economics", basic concepts like spending, investment, sales, prices, revenue, wages, and especially profit are not quantities that are mathematically related, but rather political constructs that should be set by fiat.
Americans have largely been tolerant of individuals previously described as “cross-dressers,” but what explains the adamant insistence on performing “drag queen” exhibitions for children?
How can it be anything other than grooming?
Now the boycotters are being called literal terrorists.
Gotta love how the leftist mind works.
Well, it could be to signal one’s side is Team Blue and to piss off Team Red in the stupid Red vs Blue culture wars. In fact, that is a very likely motivation for parents taking their kids to drag shows.
Dumbest thing you’ve said so far today.
I think he's probably right, though. I can't really think of much that seems more likely.
"Literal terrorist" has Gitmo possibilities.
You are purposefully ignoring the implications, but then again you believe J6 was an insurrection.
Trying to equate this to drag shows demonstrates (again) how disingenuous you really are.
I wasn’t responding to anything about “literal terrorists”. I was responding to, “How can it be anything other than grooming?”
“but then again you believe J6 was an insurrection.”
I do?
June 05, 2023 05:45 AM 4 HOURS AGO
Factory boom sweeps U.S. with construction at record $190 billion
https://www.crainscleveland.com/manufacturing/factory-boom-sweeps-us-construction-hits-record-190b
TRANNIE DANCING! HUNTER BIDENS PENIS! ARRGGHHH!!!
When asked whether Biden or Trump has done "a better job handling the economy," 54 percent said Trump and just 36 percent said Biden. - ENB informing her stalker that his gaslighting isn't working
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
"Americans are stupid"
Fox News motto.
"Buttplug is a pedarist"
Reality, fucker.
Face it. Not everyone in this country is a partisan hack Democrat like you.
In fact I know people IRL who despise Trump on a personal level, yet they're still capable of admitting they were better off financially when he was in office (stronger portfolio performance, smaller grocery bills).
The fact is that I hate liars like Trump.
“The GREATEST economy of all time” – was his lousy 1.6% GDP?
“I will present a health care plan everyone will love” – Never close
“I will build a big beautiful border wall and make Mexico pay for it”
“I will erase the deficit” Con Man increased it FIVE times to $2.5 trillion.
What can I say? I despise the lying Mother fucker. I don’t care that Biden is senile. He can’t help it.
But Fatass Donnie is the biggest liar and con man in US history.
Remember that turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Sevo mops splooge up at the Tenderloin gay bath houses every night in San Fran amongst the “elites” that run the city. He silently rages against “the system” as he squeezes each mop into a collection bucket. He prizes each bucket as his contribution to ending the parade of progressive California voters that infuriate him.
Sevo was once a lover of beat poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti but like Michael Savage before him began to rage against the men who taught him the ways of homosexual evil.
Now he works daily to rid the city of future deviants.
Unoriginal copypasta that makes Sqrlsy look readable.
Even the slime-ball's 'insults' would be embarrassing if the pile of shit had enough brains to be embarrassed.
We all know that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
You are a liar like trump.
Biden has told far more lies even after multiple factors checks from his side lol.
Obama told the "Lie of the Year" to promote his crowning domestic policy achievement. That didn't bother you because Obama is a Democrat. (Obama also put KIDS IN CAGES!!!!!)
You hate Trump because he handed your party the most humiliating and inexcusable defeat in American political history.
You hate liars? Could've fooled me, but obviously you have a lot of self-hate there, then, Turd, as you're the biggest liar of them all.
“The fact is that I hate liars like Trump.”
And yet you persist in your demfaggery….
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. Turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Wall Street ends 2022 with biggest annual drop since 2008
Hey maybe I can help Biden by telling people inflation is a myth, the market is terrific, and none of that matters anyway because they should focus on RIG COUNT!
I believe I classified that approach as #DefendBidenAtAllCosts Category C: cherry-pick obscure data points. But you have so many pro-Biden gaslighting tactics I forgot which is which.
Be honest now.
Inflation is WORLDWIDE and caused by demand acceleration from lockdowns ending.
We went through a bear market.
S &P is 4290 which is WAY above the average when Fatass Donnie attempted his coup. It was 3635 on Jan 21, 2021.
UP about 10% with Sleepy Joe.
Dow is even better up 30%.
Fatass Donnie was a failure in every way.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Public transit going to shit.
https://johnkassnews.com/would-brandon-johnson-let-his-daughter-ride-the-cta/
This is a simple question really, a straightforward question from a father who once loved Chicago, to another father who is mayor of Chicago, yet who defends the violent lest they be “demonized” by those troublesome law-abiding taxpayers:
Mayor Johnson, would you let your daughter ride unaccompanied on the CTA?
Many thousands of poor women and girls are forced to run the gauntlet to get to school and work. No one rides the CTA if they don’t have to. No woman rides unless she must. The poor have no choice. They are constantly subject to violence and the threat of violence, of beatings, robbery, sexual assault. And violent men know that women and girls are soft targets.
The reason I bring this up involves something the newspapers avoid for political reasons: Women and girls being assaulted on the CTA. There are two stories I want you to think about from the all-important crime website CWB Chicago. One involves Lorenzo Jones. Another involves Marvin Bugg, who was arrested 76 times since 2014.
Why was he allowed to harass women for so long? Why was Jones allowed to assault other women and not land in prison? His lawyers said years ago, after another arrest, that he had mental health issues. That’s terrible, but I really don’t care. Get him help if that makes you feel better, but first get him and and all others like him off the street. That’s what jail is for.
Broken Chicago corporate media that has ceded editorial control to Marxist billionaire George Soros won’t want to focus on women challenging the most progressive black mayor Chicago has had in years.
But there is one solution: Lock up those arrested for CTA violence. And if you want to help them, then get a group of helpers together and go visit them, in the Cook County Jail.
The feminists who built careers on saying they were independent keep their mouths shut rather than stand up to habitual assaulters who are routinely excused by prosecutors, time after time. Yeah, the Intersectionality Highway can be a heartbreaker. It is the scene of many crashes, although race trumps gender almost every time.
It isn’t just happening in Chicago. It is happening in every major city, every place where Soros’s billions have funded his cadre of left-wing prosecutors who decide for themselves what laws they will follow and what laws to ignore. And those civilians who stand up against the thugs run the real risk of being sent to prison, like that U.S. Marine veteran in New York, dealing with another Soros-backed prosecutor, the unctuous Alvin Bragg.
And those remaining middle class taxpayers–if they can afford to leave–well, they’re gone, too.
Urban suicide takes time. But you have eyes. You can see.
Time for the great cities is running out.
“We need moar trains”
/idiot politicians
All the trains should be disabled and replaced by diesel buses and taxis. Or people should drive their own cars.
Oops, women still get groped on diesel buses and taxis. City traffic can't take more cars.
Well, just knock down all the cities and build god-fearing farms.
Oops, the cities bring in all the tax revenue.
Try reading "The Collapse of Complex Societies" and then get back to us.
Why was he allowed to harass women for so long? Why was Jones allowed to assault other women and not land in prison? His lawyers said years ago, after another arrest, that he had mental health issues. That’s terrible, but I really don’t care. Get him help if that makes you feel better, but first get him and and all others like him off the street. That’s what jail is for.
That is not what jail is for; that is what the nut house is for. If you are insane, you get put into the asylum until you aren't.
You think jail isn't for people who commit assault and battery?
Did it hurt every time your mother dropped you on your head as a child, or did the pain dull after the first few dozen times? Though, I'll understand if you can't recall.
He was arrested over 70 times.
Yes, that is what jail is for.
Go get raped for the cause.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1665715988476641283?t=-20eCl8HwfBCJw9XDZEZ8w&s=19
Update: The 3 teens are not from the town, but refugees from Myanmar who were relocated to Upstate New York
Teenager Eman Hussan and 2 friends arrested in Syracuse, NY area for killing and eating the town swan and stealing her 4 babies
[Link]
Was it for their food truck?
Or ethnic folk dance?
They don't serve Swan at the Holiday Inn -- Cambodia, and he was curious!
I mean, what do you expect if people just leave perfectly good food around like that.
What was the crime? Killing an invasive species?
Correction: Arrested for stealing the swan.
I can't condone stealing town property. However, the slaughtering and eating part is just fine.
Just what I would expect a duck to say!
I sincerely desire to be made into pate, made into confit, or best of all lightly seared and served chilled atop a bed of baby greens. I could send an affidavit to PETA if that would help.
No, this isn't for the world's largest BBQ.
https://zerohedge.com/markets/ireland-mulls-over-plan-kill-200000-cows-fight-climate-change
Livestock production -- primarily cows -- has apparently become such a problem for the climate that government officials in Ireland are mulling over a plan to kill hundreds of thousands of cows.
The Irish Mirror said a new Department of Agriculture report shows officials planned to kill 200,000 dairy cows over the next three years to combat climate change.
Ireland's farming sector appears to be under attack by climate nuts. Remember what the end goal might be:
But the price of my favorite artisanal Irish butter won’t go up, right?
Take away their cows?
"Yawn"
Take away their potato?
Bitch about that for 178 years.
"If you kill all the livestock we're going to starve."
"DISINFORMATION!"
These attacks on food production are a new level of insanity for the climate alarmists. Or evil. One of those.
"Ok, congratulations lefties, you've finally inspired that right wing nationalist coup you've been clamoring for over the decades, simply because the sane people don't want to starve."
Seriously, the fucking commies are aiming for "Holodomor 2.0: The World Tour", with this strategy. We may have to actually become the thing they've been screeching about just to survive. I don't like it, but I'm not going to just lay down and die for fear of looking mean, either.
Seriously, the fucking commies are aiming for “Holodomor 2.0: The World Tour”, with this strategy. We may have to actually become the thing they’ve been screeching about just to survive. I don’t like it, but I’m not going to just lay down and die for fear of looking mean, either.
This is the leftists' "starve you into compliance" technique. Funny thing is, those of us who do not rely on the supply chain for our food, are also the people determined to defend it. The urbanites are fucked.
Nobody needs 23 years of longevity.
More “and” than “or”.
No, folks, criticizing Soros is not antisemitic.
https://zerohedge.com/political/jews-against-soros-group-argues-criticizing-billionaire-activist-isnt-antisemitic
A group called "Jews Against Soros," launched by Senior Newsweek Editor Josh Hammer and Missouri AG candidate Will Scharf, has argued that criticism of the billionaire activist is not antisemitic.
"Jews Against Soros will fight back against the common left-wing smear that opposition to Soros and his sprawling network of political organizations is antisemitic," the group said in a launch statement.
"Attacking Soros for his influence on American politics to say nothing of his nefarious agenda in Israel itself, isn't antisemitic. It is simply a fact that Soros funds a huge proportion of the radical left in this country. And he must be stopped," the group continued
Funny how the late Sheldon Adelson never got the same deference as Soros. Maybe because he donated to right-wing causes?
Jews for the NAZI Party
Josh Hammer - Pres
Will Scharf - Membership Director
Jews for the NAZI Party
You just described George Soros well there when you consider what he did during WWII.
I noticed that this had been "fact checked" as false and that he was just an innocent bystander of the Holocaust. Previously, I had heard that he had admitted to Nazi collaboration to save his hide. The gaslighting media at work today. Truth is being lost.
Yep. The words regarding Nazi collaboration came right out of Soros's own mouth. Innocent bystander, my ass.
Here's a link to the 60 minutes George Soros episode. He talks about confiscating Jewish properties around the 8.40 mark,
https://archive.org/details/George_Soros_1998_60_Minutes_Interview
Thank you. It seems that these links will be under attack soon. I remembered that he had admitted collaboration but the fact check I saw was painting a much nicer picture of Soro's youth. MISINFORMATION.
The 60 minutes piece was already under attack. YouTube kept taking it down whenever it was posted. I'm sure this video has been downloaded and saved in case someone wants to scrub the archive.
I noticed that this had been “fact checked” as false and that he was just an innocent bystander of the Holocaust.
Fact checked by Mizek.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
No, that would be Soros you fucking laughing stock.
"Harmful to minors" seems to be a term of art. Has anyone ever shown that the material deemed (or simply labeled as code language for "sex" — or is that "gender" now?) harmful to minors actually is harmful to them?
Are you asking for a controlled study? Some scientist shows pegging videos to 8 year old kids, then follows up to see if their later development is altered in some way?
"The effects of BDSM erotica on sexuality and relationship stability in prepubescent children, a controlled 25 year study"
Nobody uses common sense anymore.
Common sense is racist!
Doesn't have to be developmental, could be any type of harm. I've heard that phrase used for many years — seems to have peaked about 1970 and again 2000, as shown here https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=harmful+to+minors&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3 — but it always seems to be just a euphemism for "sex", i.e. sexual content, mainly porn. And nobody seems to be delivering the research that shows early exposure to sex is harmful. For all we know, it might be beneficial.
Seems I wasn't the only one to notice — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmful_to_Minors .
You do realize we have a lot of studies on molested kids and ties to future probabilities of then molesting children right?
Many child molesters groom children by giving them access to porn. It is a primary tactic.
Yes, I've heard of such things. But it's a long way from "porn" to "molested"! I mean, you might as well look at rape and conclude that all sexual activity is bad.
It is not a long way as it is a primary tool of those individuals. Are you ignoring that part?
If it was harmless, why would it be conditioned into children later in life?
Kinsey and Money both did studies on this in the 50s and 60s as they tried to push the same narrative you currently are, one of no harm. The actual results show much harm. You can find dozens of papers into their studies showing this.
But most people don't use it as such a tool.
For children? How is it a valid tool for children in any manner?
That's a reasonable question. It does seem to simply be assumed. I tend to think that it's one of those things where caution is warranted in making any big cultural change.
The ubiquity of internet porn has certainly been a big change in what kids may be exposed to. Maybe there are things we can learn from that "natural experiment" that's been going on for a while now.
That’s a reasonable question.
I haven't read the question that's behind the gray box. I guarantee it's unreasonable. Let me guess, it posits a seemingly reasonable "We don't know the specific effects of [insert social change] in our current era." while ignoring that, for the last 30 yrs., we've had to purge homophobia from all corners because, otherwise, under the narrative, gay and trans kids would get abused, sexually and otherwise, by their parents, peers, and other closeted homosexuals and suicide or self-harm more often.
So, how far am I off?
Pretty far. Commenting on things you haven't read is dumb and obnoxious. I wish everyone would just ignore stuff they don't want to engage with. The responses to perceived trolls and TDS cases, etc. shits up the threads worse than the original comments.
And why would you mute Robert(a)?
Pretty far.
Oh, really? So the question isn't actually along the lines of "Are we really sure that depictions of sex and sexualization of minors by adults is harmful to minors?" Because the part where we've cried about homosexuals and trannies being disparately the victims of sexual abuse and suicide is long running fact and purged pedophiles from The Church, Scouts, and other orgs is plainly documented.
And I muted Roberta for pretty much the reasons you discuss. They don't actually raise any valid questions, they just use oxymoronic rhetoric to obfuscate and disinform in favor of policies and practices that, at best, have nothing to do with libertarianism or republican democracy. Subsequently, when anyone begins to answer or probe with the fact that the experiments have been done and that, by their own claims, it is a bad thing they obfuscate, like you have, by screeching "Shut up!", "Mind your own business!", and "TDS!" like you have.
Now, as to your question of why I muted "Robert(a)", I never have muted Robert(a), AFAIK, no one under that handle has posted here. You used to be better than this, Zeb.
I'm not trying to obfuscate anything. I try to respond to what people say without trying to read in their hidden agendas. I think it's a reasonable question to ask how much harm a drag show for kids really does. I'm open to whatever the answer may be.
I also find the comment police shtick that many people like to do around here annoying and pointless. But don't let me stop you if you find it entertaining or worthshile.
I’m not trying to obfuscate anything.
I didn’t say you were trying to obfuscate anything. I said that’s what they try and do. I said you used to be better than making absurd mistakes like "I am not advocating for XYZ! I mean my friend, who is totally not me, is not advocating for XYZ!"
I try to respond to what people say without trying to read in their hidden agendas.
The agenda isn’t hidden. It’s overt. Even if not by their actions. Their own agenda cites their own data about how LGTBQIA kids are more likely to be sexualized or abused as children and more likely to suffer depression and/or commit suicide. Roberta has asserted these very facts on this forum. And, to wit, as to why I muted them, they may choose to refute the fact that they did or they may not, their point is oxymoronic either way. It essentially turns into a discussion with a noisy goat fucker who claims to be Abe Lincoln because they like it when people watch them fuck goats. You may think there's some valid libertarian question about bestiality within Lincoln's conception of Republicanism, but really there is no libertarian interest to be had.
Proliferation of online porn has caused changes in adult behavior, why wouldn't it do the same for kids?
Oh, I'm sure it has. I'm not entirely sure how negative it is. When I say it's a reasonable question, that doesn't mean I think I know what the right answer is. It's good to question things and look for evidence even when you think you know the right answer.
Do we need studies showing kids jumping off 300 foot cliffs is dangerous?
There are already studies of adults developing social issues from online porn use, think we can keep these studies to the adults.
I have never seen a study showing a positive outcome of it. And no I'm not arguing to ban porn for adults.
It's silly to compare the obvious effects of an uncontrolled fall off of a tall cliff to the complex and varied social and psychological effects of pornography on people of various ages. I am not in favor of encouraging porn and drag queens for children. I think the proliferation of porn probably isn't a good thing for people in general, guilty as I may be of indulging in it myself. It's still OK to ask what the harms are, under what circumstances they occur and how much they really are worth worrying about. Particularly in conversations with people who largely agree that something is wrong with what is going on lately.
And just in case people mistook me, I'm not in favor of the current propaganda campaigns directed at children such as these drag acts. I just have my doubts that most of the content meant by "harmful to minors" (i.e. sexual content or even just casual exposure) is in fact harmful. The problem with the propaganda is that...it's propaganda, is oppressive, produces even greater polarization, and runs so demonstrably against the actual facts of life as to be ridiculous.
The cliff example is done because it is an obvious knowable outcome. Same with sexualization of children, since we know the negative effects of it in adults. There is zero need to perform these studies. Kinsey and Money tried. It was a terrible idea to do so.
"'Are we really sure that masks don't prevent COVID?' is a very valid question that could use more research."
It was a mistake not to just shoot everyone who asked for amnesty.
Zeb, as I indicated, you used to be better than this.
Think about it. Your feigned ignorance is more inherently evil than your opposition is even trying to be, even if that isn't your intent. Imagine a Muslim tossing a homosexual off a roof top and then saying, "Well, we don't really have enough evidence that it didn't help them."
The evidence is there and it's pretty plain by the Muslim's questioning, which can go on forever, that they don't really care about the evidence or any positive outcomes for homosexuals or really any infidels.
Even the people who oppose gay drag shows specifically aren't forbidding children from learning about human bodies or sexuality or drag or anything like that, they're opposed to the sexual-religious equivalent of Muslims displaying hanged infidels to their children in the street. Even if the kids come out happy and healthy, the socio-political influence and messaging is an abjectly retarded thing for modern, pro-science, gender-equality, minimal government, public education, Western, representative democracies to be thinking of allowing.
You, in fact, were the one that I recall coining the phrase around here "A difference of degrees, not kind." You're effectively arguing that it's OK for kids to be 10% sexualized and 10% indoctrinated into the anti-science religion of gender identity as part of public policy but not 11% sexualized and/or 11% indoctrinated as long as that's what the data says.
We're not setting public policy here, we're discussing current events and political philosophy. Questioning ones own assumptions is good in that context. Kids have always gotten their hands on dirty books and in the internet age, kids are going to be exposed to sexual material far more than they have been in the past whether we like it or not. That doesn't mean that it should also be encouraged in all areas of life, but it is reasonable to ask just how harmful such things really are.
Questioning ones own assumptions is good in that context.
OK, lets start with your assumption that Roberta is a current event. Go ahead, research everything Roberta has written on these forums. Come up with a comprehensive summary. Compare and contrast the honest and dishonest libertarian stances for us.
Are you going to reject your own assumptions? It's a valid question and I'm only asking for some research. Mine doesn't even involve potentially exposing kids to pedophiles. Does it get priority or does your blind agreement with Roberta's assumptions actually provide a host of information all it's own?
Questioning ones own assumptions is good in that context.
True socialism has never been tried, your assumption that it has is incorrect. We need to run the social experiment several thousand more times to be sure.
Are you going to act on context and your assumptions about my honesty on this, or are you going to say, "You're right, we really haven't tried true Socialism. There is no evidence." like a useful idiot?
Kids getting their hands on things is still them trying to rebel. They know it is frowned upon. Which is the opposite of cheering on the sexualization that occurs on drag shows. There is a fundamental difference with your example and your comparison.
The moral implications of the activities.
Farm kids are exposed to sex all the time, but the cows and sheep aren’t wearing leather jockstraps and ball gags. The judge just sounds like a smart ass lawyer playing lawyer games, like Roberts and particularly Gorsuch are prone to do. Seeing it’s Tennessee he could have ruled “Harmful to minors” could be misconstrued as “Harmful to miners” and therefore unconstitutional.
I mean John Money basically showed the bullshit lead to suicide. With his transgenderism work. And he was for it.
Well, "harmful to minors" is of course a subjective term, and it would be unethical to try to construct a scientific study to measure 'harm to minors'.
The Team Red approach to addressing 'harm to minors' appears to be to regulate public spaces so as to appeal to the most prudish, socially conservative members of society. So drag queens are now considered equivalent to strippers in terms of public morality.
But this is not a particularly libertarian standard, as it effectively forces everyone to adhere to one common standard. The libertarian standard ought to be that parents should have the authority to raise their kids as they see fit, unless they violate the NAP. So this could mean parents take their kids to see drag queen shows, parents let their kids drink wine at dinner (like in Europe), parents take their kids to teach them how to use firearms (which really drives Team Blue nuts), all sorts of things. Beyond the NAP - which applies to everything - there doesn't have to be one set moral standard for how to raise kids.
A trial of deliberate exposure might be unethical (the same way trials of vaccines or other drugs in children are), but there are other ways, mostly retrospective, to get at such questions. You could do retrospective case-control studies.
Sure, and there are probably studies out there.
Then find them, cite them, link them. Otherwise, STFU.
1. Roberta is the one who wants these studies.
2. Even if either Roberta or I were to cite them here, you all would just nitpick them to death and/or claim they were written by "librul Marxist groomers" UNLESS the conclusion fit your narrative. I tried linking all sorts of studies here during the COVID pandemic and it was completely useless - the only studies people would accept are the ones that confirmed their biases. So it is completely useless to cite studies around here. *You know this*, and this is just your attempt to try to derail the conversation with pointless demands.
Links? Cites?
Fuck off with your sealioning and trolling.
Asking for links and cites is not sealioning nor trolling, especially with the amount of straw you seem to enjoy using here.
Well, ITL, I wasn't even the one who brought up the idea of a retrospective study, Roberta was. Why aren't you jumping down her throat demanding cites for these studies? Why are you demanding cites from me?
Furthermore, I didn't even claim that these studies definitively do exist. I said that they probably do exist. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, I don't really know. Again, why don't you ask Roberta?
Finally, I note that all up and down this comment thread you are responding to my comments in an accusatory, trolling manner. Including this one. So yes, you are just trolling me as usual. With the whole point of having some fun at my expense and derailing this conversation so as to get me to comment on your bullshit instead of the topic at hand or something else. Well, mission accomplished. Well done. Now fuck off.
Here's what Robert said, to refresh your memory:
Roberta 1 hour ago
A trial of deliberate exposure might be unethical (the same way trials of vaccines or other drugs in children are), but there are other ways, mostly retrospective, to get at such questions. You could do retrospective case-control studies.
Not once did she say there are studies out there. She said you could do them. She never made any such claim that there are studies.
You, on the other hand:
chemjeff radical individualist 1 hour ago
Sure, and there are probably studies out there.
You're the only one who asserted that there are probably studies out there. No citations, no links, nothing. I asked, and you decided to escalate instead of simply being honest and stating that you have no idea. To be frank, I don't know of any studies either.
Did I say that these studies definitely do exist? Yes or no?
The answer is no.
So why then are you demanding cites for studies that I myself don’t even claim definitively exist, if not to troll? Hmm?
Maybe these studies don't even exist in the first place.
It becomes more obvious by the day youre a pedophile.
Your same defenses can be used against physical punishment or molesting kids.
You avoid harm to minors as a violation of the NAP.
“Harm to minors” is overly broad and prone to all kinds of abuses, especially with the way the left controls the cultural conversation.
Not saying the impetus behind the law is wrong (why the fuck can’t adults have their own things? Not everything needs to be treated as “family friendly”.), but the language leaves a lot to be desired.
You say this like you aren't aware that, when the left controls the conversation, "Shall not be infringed" is vague and leaves a lot to be desired.
Except “Shall not be infringed” is pretty freaking explicit and “harmful to minors” could be anything from actual grooming and drag shows to letting your 10 year old watch a pg13 movie with her big sister.
Yes. We are discussing sexualization of children. No study has ever shown it is beneficial but increases pathologies and creates a harm.
Just because some can misuse it doesn't mean it is always the wrong term.
Except “Shall not be infringed” is pretty freaking explicit and “harmful to minors” could be anything from actual grooming and drag shows to letting your 10 year old watch a pg13 movie with her big sister.
You understand that you're literally arguing semantics (with me) against an ideology that, by your own understanding, wants to take your guns away and sexualize your children regardless of what any law actually says, right?
One side is literally saying "We're coming for your guns" and openly trying to sexualize your children NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW SAYS and the other side *might* do *something*, what that specific something is you don't allege, because a 10 yr. old girl might watch a PG-13 movie with her older sister.
I thought arguing semantics is all us liberty loving (don’t want to mislabel anyone a libertarian) people do?
But seriously, I just think they could be more explicit in their wording. Your last paragraph helped me grok your point though.
But all kids need the vax. There is no questioning that.
Delivered by a tranny wearing chaps and clown makeup.
"The Team Red approach to addressing ‘harm to minors’ appears to be to regulate public spaces so as to appeal to the most prudish, socially conservative members of society. So drag queens are now considered equivalent to strippers in terms of public morality."
Drag queens cannot perform to only adults...why?
Drag just means a man dressing in women’s clothes. It is often done with humorous rather than prurient intent. To automatically assume there is something indecent going on is not warranted.
Drag just means a man dressing in women’s clothes.
No, it doesn't. Drag is a specific art form. A man simply wearing women's clothes in other contexts is not Drag.
Now that locking people out of public spaces and in their homes to the tune of causing tens of thousands of addition deaths, granting special exceptions to violent child molesters, arsonists, and looters, and even asking for amnesty for all of the above has disappeared down the memory hole, we return you to your regularly scheduled programming where people in public who believe other people in public should keep their clothes on is now the pre-eminent threat to freedom in this country.
“so as to appeal to the most prudish, socially conservative members of society”
It seems to me American conservative is a bit more nuanced than that. They don’t want things like drag completely stamped out; they want them “in their place”.
To really grok conservatism you have to look at its roots in evangelical Christianity’s sin-on-Saturday-night-repent-on-Sunday-morning dynamic. Born-again Christians and other American conservatives don’t want sin completely stamped out, but they do want it to be consigned to being naughty.
As opposed to, say, Taoism or Confucianism, where a person who lives a bland life of virtue would be looked upon favorably, a American born-again Christian, if they are being honest, sees such a person as a bit boring.
If you see this dynamic, it explains a lot of things from why Mike Pence is less popular among conservative than Donald Trump, to country music themes and lyrics, to why so many Republican sex scandals happen.
https://twitter.com/wesyang/status/1665718660525170691?t=tNV3khvGM1eDahJr-1egEQ&s=19
I’m sure there’s no relation between ceaseless proselytization on behalf of rainbow identities to elementary school kids and polling outcomes like this. 48 percent of girls and 25 percent of boys have always been LGBTQ and just too afraid to come out
[Link]
Weird news story of the day.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-charges-kids-car-fire-shoplifting/
A Florida woman faces charges of aggravated child neglect and arson after her car became engulfed in flames while she was allegedly shoplifting at a mall in central Florida, according to an arrest report.
Alicia Moore, 24, parked her car in a parking lot outside a Dillard's department store at Oviedo Mall on May 26, according to an arrest report filed by the Oviedo Police Department. The report indicated Moore left children inside the vehicle. Their names and ages were redacted. CBS Miami reports there were two youngsters in the vehicle.
Security saw Moore and an unknown man shoplifting in Dillard's, according to the report. After about an hour, Moore began leaving Dillard's to see her car engulfed in flames and dropped the merchandise before she left the store.
Moore has been charged with aggravated child neglect for allegedly allowing children who could not care for themselves alone inside the vehicle, according to the report.
Police said they don't know what caused the fire but said it's unlikely the children would have been injured if Moore "was not being neglectful." Moore also was charged with arson, because the fire occurred while she was allegedly committing a felony, the arrest report said.
So wait...like there's felony murder, there's also felony arson?
Was it an electric vehicle?
Looks like a Kia from the attached video. It's also parked in a handicapped spot.
Kia? She probably stole it that morning.
Seems like a stretch.
One would guess the law was that if you were committing a burglary or armed robbery back in 1890 and knocked over the oil lamp, you could be punished as an arsonist for starting the fire.
Sure. Felony arson typically involves arson of an occupied structure.
Not just "They burned down a church" but "They burned down a church full of people".
Next time, shoplift the cigarettes and lighters last.
OK, so literally, “The state has a compelling interest in making sure 17 yr. olds and 4 yr. olds aren’t beaten, but because it’s not specific enough to delineate where it’s OK to beat a 17 yr. old and where it’s not OK to beat a 4 yr. old, regardless of whether a 17 or a 4 yr. old is actually present, It’s too vague to protect minors.”
And again, in light of the fact that there are places all over TN where women can't undress as speech if anyone between the ages of 0 and 17 yrs. *could* be present and, conversely, legally-designated (and relatively long-standing) spaces where they can undress as speech *because* entrance is barred to anyone under 18... the corrosively mentally enfeebling and misogynistic abilities of this retarded movement are mind boggling.
You would think that if ENB gave even the slightest shit about females, sex workers, or female sex workers, there would be at least *one* sentence clarifying as to what value the decision holds for existing performative sex work standards. Must be her steadfast support of good, old-fashioned "A woman's place" conservatism that keeps her from speaking up.
Killing an industry; suiciding the state.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/small-business/california-killing-another-industry-families-need
Insurance companies are now fleeing the state, driven away by the strangling red tape of government bureaucracy. Will this alarming trend spur other states to foster competition and innovation, or will they follow in California's footsteps, leaving citizens grappling with dwindling options and skyrocketing prices?
This question urgently needs to be answered now that the nation’s largest property insurer, State Farm, has announced it will no longer sell home-insurance policies in California. The late May decision follows a similar call by insurance giant GEICO, which closed all sales centers in the state last year.
I say this as the CEO of insurance and real estate companies. I also moved my business out of California several years ago, largely because the state makes it harder to serve customers. I firmly believe that State Farm had no choice but to leave California. If it had stayed, it would have been regulated to death.
Consider what State Farm has gone through in the past few years. In light of soaring costs, it recently tried to raise the price of fire insurance. Instead, the state forced the company to cut rates. That’s a quick way to drive companies out of business, since they can’t make enough money to cover payments to people who file claims. This is Economics 101, which apparently doesn’t get taught in California classrooms.
The government is also responsible for the soaring costs that State Farm noted. Wildfires are so destructive because the state hasn’t given enough funding to thin out forests – the number-one thing experts say the state should do to stop fires.
And when it comes to home prices, California makes them more expensive by mandating that new homes include things like solar panels, which cost $20,000 or more. That helps explain why California home prices are more than twice as expensive as the national average.
Is climate change a piece of the puzzle? Maybe. But California’s economic climate is ultimately what’s killing companies and leaving families in the lurch. In its zeal to crack down on insurance companies, the state is actually cracking down on the everyday people who need insurance for their homes, their cars, and their health.
California is finding this out the hard way. But other states don’t have to, and neither does Washington, D.C. Elected officials should be doing everything in their power to keep competition high and costs low. That means taking a light touch with mandates and avoiding the heavy hand of government. As California proves, the heavier that hand gets, the more it hurts the very people it’s supposed to help.
The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
This will be reported as the downstream effects of climate change.
It already is.
The problem is that the state government goes in and supplies insurance where private insurance companies will not (California FAIR plan). As the climate changes the private companies leave due to risk and the FAIR program will end up paying for all the property built close to the tree line. The market way of going about this would be to leave those locations uninsurable so that people don't build houses there so that taxpayers who build houses in safer locations don't have to pay for the burned out houses of people who build in risky locations.
The same goes for a lot of coastal property (e.g. Florida). We've got too much FEMA coverage for re-building in areas that are a lost cause. If people are flooded out they can be compensated, but if they rebuild in the same place, should they be compensated 2 or 3 times?
So, this is as good a time as any to ask the question.
Should the government pass laws to enforce standards of public morality, even on private property, even if the conduct that violates the standards does not violate the NAP? If so, on what basis?
No, I should be perfectly free to fuck your mother on the swing set in the local playground at recess.
If she's anything like this steaming pile of lefty shit, remember: Don't stick it in crazy!
So let's take your completely unserious and insulting comment and try to find the nuggets of worthy discussion out of it.
In a libertarian society, the local playground would be privately owned, and presumably the owner of such a playground would establish rules for acceptable conduct on that playground. So it would be perfectly understandable if a playground owner created a rule such as "no public sex on the playground". So if you were to have public sex in the playground, that would be a crime, but not because it violated some standard of public morality, but because it violated the rules set by the property owner.
And even in today's world, where the local playground is presumably publicly owned, if the government set a rule saying "no public sex on the playground", again that would be within its purview to do so because the government is the property owner.
But the real question is, should the government pass a law saying "public sex is not allowed on any playground, even privately owned ones"? If so, why?
You are fucked in the head and beyond redemption.
Not a serious answer then. Okay. Well maybe someone who is more serious does have a more serious answer.
Still thinking Lucy's not gonna pull the ball away I see.
Sarc peeked again
He has no team even though he blindly defends his team.
And Jeff retreats to non reality to try to defend his terrible take. He can never talk with reality as he knows his arguments are invalid.
"...He can never talk with reality as he knows his arguments are invalid."
Not sure. Simple abysmal stupidity would suffice.
That is a reality.
"If the world is totally different than it is right now, it'd be fine. SO...let's make it fine now, too"
I suspect he really has very little contact with real life, and so genuinely does not realize when his thought experiments are absurd.
Should this decency act be repealed? Does it have a section 230?
As you well know, with the original Communications Decency Act, the parts of it that were found unconstitutional were only themselves voided, not the entire act. That is why we have Section 230, and not much of the rest of it.
Right, and the above decency act which I quoted is still in place, and the law of the land.
Specifically, you asked:
Should the government pass laws to enforce standards of public morality, even on private property, even if the conduct that violates the standards does not violate the NAP? If so, on what basis?
I interpret (rightly or wrongly) the above decency act prohibits acts which violate a kind of public morality. It is a law, it is currently enforced, should it be repealed if the presumptive answer to your question is, “No”.
edit: The question of it having a section 230 was "snark" to suggest that like the Communications Decency act, it might have a provision way down inside that makes it "the first amendment of pornography" and therefore must be vigorously defended by right-thinking, freedom-loving people everywhere.
Okay then, I am sorry, I thought you were trying to bait me into arguing against Section 230.
So, from a libertarian perspective, I would have a hard time justifying the ban on distributing obscene material to minors. I think the standard libertarian argument would be that it should properly be the purview of the parents to police what their children are allowed to view, and it shouldn't be the role of the government to do so. So from a libertarian perspective, I don't think that part of the law should remain. What do you think?
Seems kind of beside the point at this stage. Is there any kid who can't figure out how to get all the porn they want online?
^^^This
Yeah, but those MAGA kids can't be trusted to choose the right kind of porn. We need to ban anything that appeals to heterosexuals.
Figure it out or be conditioned it is a good thing? Two different questions.
I don't know that kids seeking porn need any conditioning to decide it's a good thing.
But I don't have kids. And when I was a kid, finding an old Penthouse was the best I could do on that front. I can't imagine what it's like now with access to pretty much anything any time. I think it's probably not great for people, least of all kids. My point is what do you do about it? And what are the tradeoffs? A great thing about the internet is that it makes it harder to control what information people have access to. That is also often a bad thing about the internet, particularly when it comes to children.
You only bring up the NAP when you are for an act that harms others, especially children. Why? I mean you openly stated officers can shoot a trespasser, yet grooming kids isnt a violation? Trsspassing is a Capital violation but introducing sex to those without the mental capacity to consent is not? You have fucking issues.
What if there's a drag queen in your trunk, and every once in a while it jumps out in front of children?
*SNERRKK!*
Then where would you put your unmasked bear?
Completely unrealistic hypothetical.
Should the government pass laws to enforce standards of public morality, even on private property, even if the conduct that violates the standards does not violate the NAP? If so, on what basis?
Trying to open the door to justify fucking children again, I see.
Sex with children violates the NAP because children cannot consent. So no, nothing in my above statement justifies pedophilia.
These questions are driven by the very norms of public morality that you're trying to argue against.
But in the case of pedophilia, it is more biology than morality. Children are simply not biologically developed enough to be able to fully give consent. It is exactly the same with children being asked to sign contracts, but there is no sexual morality component there. It is also the same with an adult who is severely mentally disabled, even though that adult has reached the age of majority - because of that person's condition, that person also is incapable of giving meaningful consent.
But in the case of pedophilia, it is more biology than morality.
Bullshit. You're just hair-splitting at this point because you know how bad your false dilemma makes you look in light of your previous creepy defenses of child molesters, and manic determination to allow adults to encourage kids to believe they're born in the wrong body and need to have their sexual organs removed.
No, not bullshit. One does not need to resort to morality in order to justify making pedophilia illegal, and the fact that you cannot refute this and instead now resort to try to reading my mind and my "true motivations" is your tacit admission that I'm right and you can't refute the argument.
The very same arguments you utilize for "gender affirming care" can be utilized for pedophilia. Doctors are discussing masturbation at younger and younger ages as a good thing. So if a pedophile gains medical and parental consent, how is pedophilia more harmful than permanent surgery or drugs from a dysphoria sense?
Your arguments are false due to a lack of consistency.
Yes, bullshit. Public morality is the whole basis for anti-pedophilia laws. Try and handwave it all you want, biology doesn't factor into it at all, or there wouldn't be age of consent laws.
Your argument is a false dilemma and thus bullshit on its face, so there's nothing substantive to refute other than your own wishful thinking.
Your concession is duly noted.
Jeff. Explain your past arguments defending banning gay conversion therapy.
So is your projection, and your rampant pedophilia.
As was asked...why can kids not consent to sex but CAN consent to changing their sex?
They can't consent to either.
So who is consenting? The parents? If so why can’t a parent consent their child to be molested?
Your argument is flaccid.
So why have you argued against laws that made that explicitly clear in places like Florida?
I have never argued against parental consent laws for gender affirming care.
I have argued against outright bans on gender affirming care.
Gender affirming care has lifetime effects on a child. Molesting them does not.
Yet you think the former is more defensible than the latter. Gender affirming care is also a physical change which you cite utilizing the NAP.
PLEASE make your argument consistent.
I think you need to resort to morality to justify making anything illegal. How do you conclude that causing harm to another person should be a crime if you don't already assume that causing harm to someone else is immoral? The NAP is a moral principle.
Yes, the NAP is a moral principle. But based on that alone, one does not need to resort to any other moral principle of "eeww child sex is icky" to make pedophilia illegal. That is my point.
Yet just a comment above you dont think chemical castration is a violation of the NAP.
Your arguments are completely inconsistent.
“One does not need to resort to morality….”
Why do think that morality must be left out of it? There are things to be dispassionate about, but pedophilia ain’t one of them.
What is wrong with you?
Children are simply not biologically developed enough to be able to fully give consent
You literally argue kids can consent to life altering drugs for dysphoria...
Once again you taper your argument based on what your political preferences are. There is no consistency in your thoughts.
You take a stance and then see how you can corrupt an argument to fit it.
Those are all moral positions dipshit
“Should the government pass laws to enforce standards of public morality, even on private property, even if the conduct that violates the standards does not violate the NAP? If so, on what basis?”
That ship sailed A LOOOOONNNGGG time ago.
Look, if the people who support drag queen shows for kids would be enraged if hyper-sexual actual women put on the same show then they are hypocritical assholes. But we already know that.
"Nearly All of Earth's Ecological Vital Signs Are In The 'Danger Zone' Scientists Warn"
[...]
"Earth has pushed past seven out of eight scientifically established safety limits and into “the danger zone,” not just for an overheating planet that’s losing its natural areas, but for well-being of people living on it, according to a new study..."
https://time.com/6283778/earth-in-ecological-danger-zone/
It's a WOLF, I tell ya!!!!!!
(yap, yap, yap)
Earth's vital signs are in the Danger Zone, Iceman hardest hit.
Yet somehow humanity survived multiple ice ages and much more dramatic sea level changes, all with Stone Age technology.
Cue Kenny Loggins (and Archer).
Oh Horseshit, the State of Florida is not "trying to attract" illegal immigrants just so they can send them elsewhere. It is blue state sanctuary districts which are promising migrants "jobs and services" and then sending them to detention centers. Literally. So stop it, Reason, with this bullshit.
PICO California, a group helping the migrants in Sacramento, they accepted an offer from people promising jobs and travel assistance.
And for the record, it's orgs like PICO which promise jobs, services and travel assistance for migrants. As Douglas Murray talked about in his book, "The Strange Death of Europe", NGOs were well known to be using migrants as political pawns by communicating with them through their AID networks all kinds of methods of circumventing immigration law, promising legal assistance, services etc. This is known.
Oh Horseshit, the State of Florida is not “trying to attract” illegal immigrants just so they can send them elsewhere. It is blue state sanctuary districts which are promising migrants “jobs and services” and then sending them to detention centers. Literally. So stop it, Reason, with this bullshit.
If only we'd had a discussion about speech in support of immigration where Reason didn't just take the unprincipled, uncritical and feel-good side of "Speech of which I approve and which supports immigration in a manner mi abuela, toda nuestra abuela, says we should approve of, should be legal."
Instead, it comes across looking like they don't really care about crime, immigrants' well being, or free speech.
don’t really care about crime, immigrants’ well being
As Peter Hitchens said about his youthful Trotskyism in relation to open borders, “We didn’t give a damn about migrants, we wanted to destroy the nation state.”
So, you did this same thing yesterday: putting in quotes something that was never said. Nowhere in the source material you are commenting on did anyone say “trying to attract”. Why is it in quotes, then?
Haven't book and video stores always have a back room for adult content?
If your story relies on selling porn to minors you should go out of business
Haven’t book and video stores always have a back room for adult content?
Video - yes
Bookstores - no. The lurid romance novels are out on the shelves with everything else.
Bookstores do have a kids section though.
But those damned MAGA typed want to ban BDSM for kids!
Bookstores – no. The lurid romance novels are out on the shelves with everything else.
Satire, right? Please tell me the troon, self-retardation nonsense hasn't also reduced you to the point of "Don't even write the word gay" and "But Hooters!" idiocy.
Huh?
The notion of "lurid romance novels = adult content" and the up-translation to the opposition to the TN Law is driving very... serviceably in a "words are violence" direction.
The TN law doesn't ban verbal depictions of sex, bookstores were/are generally required to keep their porn in a separate section and are forbidden from selling it to minors. Most libraries, school and other, don't carry romance novels in a manner (in)convenient to the "OMG! Book ban!" narrative. And 'romance novels' are notorious for flowery-prose obfuscation of what are essentially rapes, which can/should/would carry no up translation to performative depictions of rape to minors, with or without flowery prose.
‘romance novels’ are notorious for flowery-prose obfuscation of what are essentially rapes
Not exactly. Romance novels specialize in portraying actually willing women using the appearance of rape to escape responsibility for engaging in illicit sex. It's the fantasy, "I really do desire him, but, since he would not have taken no for an answer, I bear no blame for my indiscretion/infidelity."
With what I've recently learned about ESG scores, I'm curious if it will be possible for American corporations to take a turn for a more politically neutral and profitable path.
The loss in profits have been noticeable before the budlight incident, but the question is can a business exist in modern America (no matter how profitable) if banks won't touch them for non-profit related reasons.
I've been wondering the same thing, and I also have no idea how to deal with the problem without vastly violating libertarian philosophy. Though I suppose one could potentially claim that the big banks are only as big as they are due to government largesse, and thus insist that they stop using such metrics for lending decisions. I really hate the idea of telling notionally private companies how to conduct their lending business. Though I suppose they already have to follow the CRA and the banking specific follow-ons, so perhaps that ship has already sailed.
That's a big part of the problem. It's so hard to disentangle business from the many many regulations, incentives, and targeted lawsuits that have been built up for years.
“I also have no idea how to deal with the problem without vastly violating libertarian philosophy.”
One thing to note is that woke boards and CEOs are violating their fiduciary duties to their shareholders.
Another thing I think libertarians need to realize that today’s giant multinational corporations are in many ways pseudo-governments, replete with elected officials and voters.
Blackrock, Blackstone, Bank of America, Apple, Vanguard, Alphabet and Visa are more like the Dutch East India and Hudson Bay Companies, than private companies like Bob’s Groceries. They were powerful, possessing quasi-governmental powers including the ability to wage war, imprison and execute convicts, negotiate treaties, strike their own coins, and establish colonies.
Perhaps we need to regard the board of a publicly-traded multinational who is waging ideologically-based economic warfare, in the manner we would those historical corporations who controlled millions, or governments of mercantile city states like the Venetian Republic, doing the same.
Unfortunately, they aren't because Blackrock would pull out if their ESG score went too low, which would tank stock value worse than losing a significant chunk of your customers. Blackrock doesn't have to worry about fiduciary duty, because the biden literally said it's okay for them to ignore it in favor os ESG scores.
Perhaps we need to regard the board of a publicly-traded multinational who is waging ideologically-based economic warfare, in the manner we would those historical corporations who controlled millions, or governments of mercantile city states like the Venetian Republic, doing the same.
That's actually not a bad idea. That would certainly open the door to finally being able to bring these corporations to heel. The challenge here is that they're loosely organized at the international level under various globohomo programs and organizations. You'd probably be a lot better off going after the World Economic Forum and other similar internationalist orgs in order to cripple their top-down coordination.
I'm actually a bit befuddled as to how this isn't an explicitly understood libertarian line of thought. To the point that after FDIC, The Reserve, TBTF, Fannie May and Freddie Mac, Gamestop, etc., etc. the "Whatever shall we do?" 'conundrum' sound like something between a sort of libertarian-political version of a Unitarian and fascist libertarian apologist.
My libertarianism doesn't contain any "Thou shalt not oppose banks." commandment and the prohibition against aggression rather overtly includes undue coercion and extortion specifically to support individual liberty. "Sure is a nice business you've got there, sure would be a shame if something happened to it." doesn't change one iota just because it was uttered by a banker rather than any other "legitimate businessman."
I agree that the coercion is bad, I'm just trying to square that with my preferred lassaiz faire attitude towards businesses and their assets. It sucks that these businesses have sufficient assets that they can warp the market, but just as I oppose the CRA and support the right of a private business to be dicks and post a "No Blacks" sign, it seems consistent to support the right of Blackrock to be dicks and figuratively post a "No Non-Wokies" sign.
Hell, I would appreciate a reasoned distinction between the two. The one Mother's Lament posted was pretty good. You got anything else I could add to my philosophical reasoning?
You got anything else I could add to my philosophical reasoning?
Unsure. Your line of thinking is somewhat unexpectedly orthogonal to what I would consider to be plain understanding. I should be clear about the pragmatics of any given solution as distinct from the philosophy. However, in that vein, I kinda hate to turn it around on you, but I would love to see the philosophical movement that effectively advocates, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, unless it gets voted down by 51% of the shareholders." Everything I've seen doesn't make exceptions, not even necessarily for tyranny-of-the-majority democracy with regard to individual liberty. Even lassaiz faire holds the individual as primary and would recognize individual diner-owners and bank managers as distinct from any corporate governance that dictates what business they will/won't do.
As I said, there's still a conundrum about how to actualize such a... corporate ambivalent... philosophy without effectively creating a larger, more oppressive system of governance but the philosophy itself is pretty simple.
Personally, after TBTF, I've been pretty black pill about the whole affair and I haven't seen much of anything do dissuade me I'm wrong. I've had a few thoughts to push back against the issue (one idea regarding this issue and Unions would be to, in some form of arbitration, turn severely limited assets over to the Union and let them sink/swim on their own merit) but ultimately, I think a million Americans are going to have to shoot a million other Americans to resolve the issue unless a million Europeans shooting (or knifing and molotov cocktailing) a million other Europeans doesn't make things more clear first.
I guess I'd say that my primary thoughts are sort of an unironic "private company" (which some of these enormous investment firms may legitimately no longer count as) along with not wanting to give the government more power to tell private companies what to do with their assets.
It's not that I consider the absolute power thing to be that way, more that I don't consider private companies to have absolute power. That's typically the government. Which is why I'm concerned about giving them more power. But perhaps TBTF needs to also include "Too Big To Still Be Private" and require some additional oversight.
Which immediately devolves into your typical "quis custodiet" problem when the people doing the oversight are just as horrifyingly corrupt as the DIE crowd, only they have the veneer of respectability that government somehow still provides.
It certainly needs to stop, I just don't want to end up in a "little old lady who swallowed a fly" situation where what's done to rein in the problem ends up being an even bigger problem afterwards, ad infinitum.
I really hope your suspected solution isn't the only one, but I fear it might be.
Here is a thought. Maybe, just maybe, ESG scores aren't the devil. Maybe they include some topics that are worthy of discussion regardless of one's politics, and maybe a company considering *some* aspects of an ESG score is a good thing even if it lowers profits.
For example:
https://esg.conservice.com/esg-scores-why-they-matter/
Now there are some items on those lists that are rather ideologically motivated ("diversity of board composition"). But some are less so. For example, tax transparency, or supply chain labor standards, or toxic emissions. Very few people think corporations should hide their taxes, or knowingly use slave labor, or pollute freely without consequence.
So instead of throwing out the ESG idea entirely, perhaps it ought to be more focused on those items that enjoy very broad support. And if a company has lower profits because it has to be more transparent with its taxes, or it has to be more purposeful in its sourcing of materials to avoid problematic labor concerns, then why is that a bad thing? It can only truly be a bad thing from a libertarian perspective if a particular ESG model is *forced* onto a company by the government. But AFAIK that is not the case (yet).
Mott & Bailey look it up.
How about we instead toss out ESG, and the ideas with broad support will come back in a new form because they enjoy broad support.
"Mott & Bailey look it up."
He knows. After misrepresenting an opponent's argument it's his favorite rhetorical trick.
This is not motte & bailey. For it to be motte & bailey, I would have to be defending only parts of it as a pretense for defending the entirety of the thing. I am not defending the entirety of the thing. I think that there are some parts that are defensible, like the idea about tax transparency for example, and some that are less so, like diversity of board composition. Also interesting to note is that there are a wide variety of different ESG scores, that use different criteria that are all weighted differently.
I don't think the *idea* of ESG is going to go away, as the *idea* behind it is a realization that corporations ought to consider some of their externalized costs, and their relations with all stakeholders not just their shareholders, when they do business. So instead of being a reactionary nitwit and saying "get rid of it", instead why not try to work with the defensible parts and get rid of the indefensible parts?
"I don’t think the *idea* of ESG is going to go away, as the *idea* behind it is a realization that corporations ought to consider some of their externalized costs, and their relations with all stakeholders not just their shareholders, when they do business."
Then they should quit and join a nonprofit organization that does just that, because their sole duty is their fiduciary duty to the shareholders who may not agree with their moralizing and pseudo-religious beliefs.
So instead of being a reactionary nitwit and saying “get rid of it”, instead why not try to work with the defensible parts and get rid of the indefensible parts?
Because the globalists actually driving "stakeholder capitalism" don't want to get rid of the indefensible parts. Unless they're made to give up the whole thing, they'll keep pushing what's indefensible along with what "might" be defensible. That's what makes it a mottle and bailey initiative.
Because the globalists actually driving “stakeholder capitalism”
Do you think it's the globalists who are forcing the idea of, say, corporate tax transparency down the throats of ordinary citizens?
And besides, based on your comment above:
That would certainly open the door to finally being able to bring these corporations to heel.
you seem to be open to the idea of your own version of "stakeholder capitalism" yourself
Do you think it’s the globalists who are forcing the idea of, say, corporate tax transparency down the throats of ordinary citizens?
That's why it's called motte and bailey, you disingenous fuckhead.
you seem to be open to the idea of your own version of “stakeholder capitalism” yourself
When globalist organizations are using motte and bailey strategies to push indefensible policies, it's in the public interest to choke them out.
Right. So you are not opposed to "stakeholder capitalism", you are just opposed to THEIR idea of "stakeholder capitalism".
You’re the one who’s arguing the “indefensible” parts should be removed, so what’s the problem? This is particularly rich considering these corporations are making business decisions that are tanking their revenues.
Seems more like your main complaint is that people oppose "stakeholder capitalism" because it might hurt your lefty boos, which is par for the course with you.
Just pointing out that your alternative to ESG is not free-market capitalism.
I think that most of you oppose "stakeholder capitalism" because you're reactionary tribal morons, and when the same or similar ideas are presented from people in your in-group, you all are far less hostile and even receptive to the ideas.
Just pointing out that your alternative to ESG is not free-market capitalism.
ESG isn't free-market capitalism, so what's your point?
I think that most of you oppose “stakeholder capitalism” because you’re reactionary tribal morons,
No, we oppose it because it's a motte and bailey strategy for half-baked ideas on global fascism coupled with social marxism, enforced by left-wing assholes with a god complex.
Well put, RRWP.
Work with the defensible and get rid of the indefensible? What, like removing the sections that speak about “carbon emissions” and “climate change vulnerability”?
If Minnesota gets colder during “climate change” they’ll be “vulnerable” to freezing because of insufficient “carbon emissions”. This observation is a kind of DEI heresy, and there’s no “getting rid” of the catechism.
Jeff’s trying to pretend that there’s some kind of “compromise” that can be had here, when he knows damn well that these organizations have no intent of doing so, primarily because of their partnerships and mutual cooperation with global finance and left-liberal government rulers. That’s why they coordinate things at the international level such as the WEF, so that they’ll be better protected from the effects of non-participation, such as conservatives exercising brand rejection that results in massive stock drops and lowered market share.
Klaus Schwab literally wrote the book on how this functions in 2021, it’s not like they’re being coy about their goals or trying to hide them in any way, it’s just that the average person isn’t going to go out of their way to look up what half-baked ideas the self-styled masters of the universe are promoting, even if it ends up affecting them directly
I don't care about WEF or Klaus Schwab. I'm talking about the concepts involved.
Stop redirecting, twit. You known damn well that Schwab said how it functions.
I have no idea what Klaus Schwab said or what he believes and I really don't care either. I am more interested in the idea rather than the personality.
Maybe if you educated yourself before jumping into a discussion you'd have a firm argument instead of sophistry.
I don’t care about WEF or Klaus Schwab. I’m talking about the concepts involved.
"I don't care about the Cultural Revolution or Great Leap Forward or Mao. I'm talking about the concepts invovled."
I have no idea what Klaus Schwab said or what he believes and I really don’t care either. I am more interested in the idea rather than the personality.
"I have no idea what Lenin said or what he believes and I really don't care either. I am more interested in the idea rather than the personality."
This really pathetic attempt to deflect from the fact that there are actual people with very clear motivations as to why they want these initiatives pushed demonstrates what happens when lefty apologists know their argument has no basis in reality.
You don't have to know who Lenin was to understand that socialism is a bad idea.
And you are only proving my point: it sure looks as though the main reason that you oppose ESG is because it is being advocated by people you don't like.
Someone who's an admitted "anti-rightist" is hardly in a position to be scolding anyone about tribalism. That's why you whined like a mule when your lefty boos at Oberlin got cornholed for trying to run Gibson's Bakery out of business. You were particularly incurious about the facts of that case, too.
Look, I want to eat both your legs, you don't want me to eat any of your legs, can't we compromise and I'll just eat the left one?
A company exists to create profit for investors, Jeff. They're not in the business of anything you mentioned. That's the work of churches, charities and non profits. Chairs and CEOs engaging in ESG and forcing other corporations to do so are willfully violating their fiduciary duties to their investors.
Of course you already know all this, but you're paid to shill your gospel.
Why the fuck do you claim youre not a leftist?
Youre also a fascist by definition.
None of the things mentioned are issues that the vast majority of companies should be worried about. Especially at the expense of their fiduciary responsibilities.
The question that time will answer is whether ESG scoring, which works against profit, will survive long.
If the left can come up with a rating system for corporations, other political ideologies can, too.
It seems the money comes from people who aren't directing their own cash, so it might be able to pay quite a while.
Don’t a lot of those investors have conservative values? They could assert their own influence over BlackRock, etc.
Union pensions are a big one. Funds where the person who's money being spent doesn't get an actual say in who spends it. It's why there was so much screaming when done conservative states moved their public pension funds away from BlackRock.
"YouTube will stop removing content that promotes false claims about U.S. elections."
This sentence is so utterly anti-libertarian.
And it misses the point. “You will no longer be sent to the concentration camp if you’re only 25% Jewish" is not a victory for freedom online.
Fun Fact: private parties can become state actors when they take specific direction from the state to execute state policy, which is how the installation of the modern gleichshaltung operates.
So, what is your suggested solution?
Government spending no resources on censoring people? Why do you call yourself libertarian?
You don't know? I thought you were the only real libertarian?
the most important thing in life is drag shows. nothing else comes close.
Abortion? Skin color?
Clearly, the most important thing is the right to be a bigot.
And your evidence for that? Mine is based on ENB's past articles whereby abortion seems to be high on her list, and "skin color" comes from many, many articles where people get treated differently (by either DAs or by journalists) due to that.
the right to be a bigot is EXTREMELY important. It is the right to think your own thoughts. It is FAR more important than the right to twerk in front of kids.
It is the right to think your own thoughts.
Okay then. So what is the difference then between the person thinking his own thoughts of "I think blacks are inferior", and the person thinking his own thoughts of "I think twerking in front of kids is terrific"?
Nothing.
It's about actions. But you knew that, that's why you switched the action of twerking in front of kids to thinking about twerking in front of kids in your reply.
It amazes me how you think that we won't pick up on your little tricks.
der whats the diFFeReNcE between tHiNking 'i'd like to murder someone' and AKSHULLY murdering someone? hunh? Gotcha!
Actions.
All good laws judge actions and not words or thoughts.
^ virtue signaling is the most important thing.
ENB, what is best in life?
To force drag shows upon my enemies children.
To see them twerking before me.
The hear the lamentations of their parents.
What happened to weed and ass sex?
That's Sullum and Shackford.
Someone in Utah is challenging the Davis School District's inclusion of the Bible and the Book of Mormon in school libraries.
I await the wailing and gnashing of teeth from all the jOurNaLisTs who shit their pants about removing blowjob instructions from elementary school libraries but were really just principled anti-censorship champions!
I'm surprised the Bible was allowed in any school library, even Utah.
Let this be a lesson to the tyrants who want to try to control information online. You can't do it. People will just find a way around your restrictions.
Senegal government cuts mobile internet access amid deadly rioting
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/senegal-government-cuts-mobile-internet-access-amid-deadly-rioting-2023-06-04/
“Let this be a lesson to the tyrants who want to try to control information online.”
So what did you learn, Jeff? You're the one who's spent the last three years here hot & horny for the FBI/DHS/CIAs deplatforming and censorship mechanism.
Knowing you, the only message that you actually got is that it’s time to ban VPNs.
he was talking about "information", not MISinformation! duh.
YouTube will stop removing content that promotes false claims about U.S. elections.
False claims.. as determined by a bunch of blue-haired millennials who see themselves as regime apparatchiks, using Google to verify the "facts" lol
what to do with "more than 80 million people voted for Joe Biden"?
people?
They might be dead but they're still people...
I see you've been to Chicago.
Sadly. :-/
Ballots.
Ballots are people too.
>>U.S. District Judge Thomas Parker—a Trump appointee—offered a vigorous defense of free speech.
very nice of you to give props to someone for doing the right thing.
>>Carly Ann Goddard, a 22-year-old influencer in Montana
not a thing.
Montana is too a thing. I've actually been there.
A sober article about the Ukraine war that isn't from a pro-Russian shill.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/unwinnable-war-washington-endgame
TL;DR: it's time for an armistice
"that isn’t from a pro-Russian shill."
Senator Jeff McCarthy has the floor.
Reading it during the boring parts of the WWDC Keynote, where Steve Jobs isn’t speaking.
Steve Jobs is at WWDC23?
Wow, I guess Biden wasn’t lying when he said he’d bring back jobs.
Edit: Do you guys think it's a possibility that Mike Liarsen doesn't realize that Jobs is dead?
What do you call AI without the I?
i thought the definition of pro-Russian shill WAS arguing for an end to the war? I'm confused now.
It was time for an armistice before it started. The UK helped kill that.
If you were against the war before jeff changed his mind youre pro Russian.
Did i get that right jeff?
Well, one small silver lining out of China's recent belligerence: it has sped up the rapprochement between Japan and South Korea
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/japan-south-korea-speed-up-talks-over-pending-military-issues-2023-06-04/
More military blocs and alliances, what a blessing.
Also,
"rapprochement between Japan and South Korea"
Ummm...
Whoops! Commented on the wrong comment.
Aren't they all?
Do the slack-jaws who enacted that provision recognize they just banned Bibles from schools?
Artie,
1. You're late to the party, dork.
2. It's time you respected your betters.
Is Arfie's dog not topping him again?! Man, that sort of rejection must really sting.
He even peed himself and applied a jar of peanut butter. But nothing.
my kids' public school library does not have a copy of the bible in it. No one fucking cares.
Same should be the case for pornographic blowjob instruction manuals.
Liberating tolerance means intolerance against movements from the Left, and toleration of movements from the Right. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance:... it will extend to the stage of action as well as of discussion and propaganda, of deed as well as of word.
https://bit.ly/3rH6RTF December 6, 2021, CityWatch, Self-identification Is the Most Basic Liberty, by Richard Lee Abrams
Under Alito, however, inalienable rights do not attach to persons but to actions. Thus, for there to be a violation of one's inalienable right to liberty, whatever the person wants to do must be specifically protected in the Constitution, e.g. women have the right to abortion, or the right has been universally acknowledged at all times in legal history. Since the constitution does not expressly say that people have an inalienable right to self-identification, the state has the right to assign identities to people and to prosecute anyone who disagrees with the state's determination. Since Gays have been burned at the state for being Gay, it is clear that Gay identity is not protected. It is solely a matter of the voters.
Under Dobbs, the right of free speech does not attach to persons but to what they wish to say. If some particular expression is expressly protected by the Constitution, a person may say it. If, on the other hand, at some time in some place, such a statement was not protected, it cannot be an inalienable right now. Rather, the majority of voters get to decide whether a person has the right to that particular self-identification.
Thus, the important take-away from Dobbs for the future is that inalienable rights to not attach to persons but to the specific action or statement which a person wishes to take or make.
Wow! That was insane.
How much sophistry can one nut pack into an article? Amazing.
Check out the opener, folks:
"What is the substantive difference between someone who refuses to wear a mask or get a vax but yet goes out in public not knowing whether they are spreading a deadly disease and someone who steals Xmas packages from the front porch or participates in a mob smash and grab at Target?"
The whole thing's like that.
What is the substantive difference between what he said and him saying 'Because you didn't get vaxxed or wear a mask during COVID, it's OK if you rob my house.'?
It is well known that Alito, Thomas and other scrub justices apparently don't believe the 9th Amendment is part of the Constitution.
To bad he cannot dress up like an arepa
It's what Charles Koch wants and tells KMW to do. That same Charles Koch who is buddies with George Soros and goes to the WEF.
It's hard for Desantis to be Hitler if he has any checks & balances on him so let's not even talk about that. Or we can talk about the legislature as long as we say they "were just following orders".
Those bills that the Florida legislature passed, DeSantis has to sign them into law. He’s not some bystander.
But that means he’s not a dictator.
That’s generally how a representative democratic republic works, yes.
"Those bills that the Florida legislature passed, DeSantis has to sign them into law. He’s not some bystander."
Nobody argues he has no part in it.
But to say HE alone is doing it --- well, no, that is not remotely accurate. And FL taxpayers, clearly, are not upset based on the results of elections.
I think she was kind of always a freelance reporter, and not an employee.
It wasn't so much her reporting that Antifa was in fact real, as the fact that she was doing actual reporting. Kinda makes quoting Twitter or Slate or the NYT seem like taking a shortcut.
One of the main weaknesses of a liberalized society is that its ethic of tolerance opens the door for deviant and malicious actors to exploit that in order to subvert it for their own perverted ends, and then claim oppression when their deviance is forbidden.
It’s not an accident that child molesters and queer/marxist activists employ the same grooming tactics when engaging with kids–alienation from friends and family members, telling them “this will be our secret, mom and/or dad don’t need to know,” etc. The whole point is to isolate kids, confuse them so they are easier to manipulate, and make them feel like there’s no where to turn for emotional relief and that they should just go along with it.
Hey Chucky, tell us again how reading a book to kids is a violation of the NAP.
This is as confusing to Mike as cage-free was.
I don't disagree with the liberty to be a bigot. I just don't think it is the most important thing in the universe, like some of you apparently do.
Or H2O
If it's Hustler Magazine, it is.
I seriouusly cannot figure out how it's so important to these people to put kids and drag queens together.
The conversation should literally be:
"hey let's put drag queens and kids together"
"nah, that's pretty weird and most parents dont like it. Maybe push for freedoms that actually matter? in the meantime, since you keep insistting none of this is about kids, we'll just pass a law making sure this doesnt happen ok?"
"Yeah, I can see your point even though i support drag queens and kids get togethers. But oh well, nevermind. BLM baby!"
that should literally be the entire conversation but NO, drag queens and kids is apparently the most important thing in the world.
Hey Chucky, tell us again how reading a book to kids is a violation of the NAP.
If it hurts your lefty boos, it's automatically good.
How is it aggression?
You mean HO2?
Because if not exposed before puberty, indoctrination will not be nearly as effective.
“nah, that’s pretty weird and most parents dont like it. Maybe push for freedoms that actually matter? in the meantime, since you keep insistting none of this is about kids, we’ll just pass a law making sure this doesnt happen ok?”
It's the last part that is problematic.
How is it not? If you're reading "Letters to Penthouse" to young children, you're abusing them. Sexually and mentally. It's not age-appropriate material.
And you should probably be castrated, just to be safe.
lol. it’s “problematic” not to allow drag queen and kids get togethers.
You make my point for me.
The whole reaction to these laws should be a shrug and "eh, we liberal progressive commies have bigger fish to fry" but no... it's "problematic"
Not at all problematic. 0% problematic.
One of the functions of government is to enforce laws meant to punish people for violating the rights of others. Child abuse is violating the rights of children. Abusers should be punished.
Jeffy probably wishes Not Quite Barely Legal was in his library.
I agree it is not age-appropriate material. But reading inappropriate material to children is not the same as abusing children, or committing aggression against children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle
Do you agree with this broad definition of the NAP?
If so, how does reading a book to a child, even a book that has inappropriate material, constitute "initiating or threatening any forceful interference" against the child?
Splicing hairs and stuffing straw.
Definitionally, children are captive audiences. What are they gonna do, say no?
Because young kids can’t properly process images of deviant behavior anymore than they can process violent images.
Parents don’t have a contractual agreement to take care of their kids?
You really are fucked up jeff.
Well, by that standard, doing anything with a child is "aggression" since they are a captive audience. So that is an unworkable standard.
Passing a law banning drag queens associating with children, does three things:
1. It infringes on the liberty of drag queens to associate with whom they choose
2. It infringes on the liberty of parents to raise their children as they choose in a manner that does not violate the NAP; and
3. It is predicated on the assumption that drag queens should be kept away from kids because they are no better than sexual predators. That is insulting and wrong.
where here, "grooming" means "raising kids in a way that Chucky doesn't approve of"
How is drag queen story hour "child abuse"?
Yeah, but you want more child molesters to be allowed to migrate to the US, so you really have no standing here.
No, you just get mad when your lefty boos are resisted.
How do you define bigot?
Especially in regards to the commentariat that you’re calling out.
That seems to be a pattern. Take for example the Durham report.
And to answer Sarc and Larson's whine about people who bash Reason still reading Reason, it's because occasionally Reason still lets a libertarian value show up in their reporting, usually by a guest writer (and when it's one of the plethora of senior editors 90+% of the time it's Soave). I could entertain the argument that they're allowing contrarian views, like they've always done, except a decade ago that was like 10% of stories, not 90%, and usually it was the guest writers not the primary writers who wrote such articles.
We did Revelations in Adult Bible study, that was very interesting. It helps that Lutheran ministers receive intensive schooling (minimum six years, often eight) on the Bible, ancient languages and historical perspectives in the Bible (the take one book at a time learning about the historical perspectives, languages and alternate interpretations etc). I enjoyed that level, as the minister participated but allowed open discussion and encouraged us to study it in sections and ignore verse and chapter (which are a recent addition to the Bible and often lead to misinterpretation or out of context interpretation). We spent a nine months on Revelations. Other years we also tackled Job and Genesis (again, spending nine months on each). The minister's main contribution was to provide historical and cultural context, or linguistic interpretation, when appropriate. I now own a Lutheran Study Bible he recommended that contains many of these same things in the margins. It really does change common understanding at times.
Chucky, you do understand that an activity can still be a bad idea and not be a violation of the NAP?
And no, pedophilia is a violation of the NAP as I mentioned above. Because children cannot give consent to sexual intercourse.
2. It infringes on the liberty of parents to raise their children as they choose in a manner that does not violate the NAP; and
This one is correct, somewhat, but my point is it should be of little concern. so what? Why is it SO important to all the drag queens and sympathizers to have these get togethers with kids? There are SO many other infringments from the government and this one is quiet frankly at least somewhat justified compared to others. Why. the rage and fury?
i can only think of one reason....
Doing anything sexual with a child is aggression. How is that an unworkable standard?
Then be specific. Precisely define what you mean by "anything sexual", and precisely show how it constitutes "aggression" based on the definition given above.
Jeff is perfectly setting an example of a sea lion.
Your previous definition of "anything sexual" is "anything Chucky disapproves of". Sorry but I don't accept that definition.
"Your previous definition of “anything sexual” is “anything Chucky disapproves of”."
Classic Chemjeff. If he can't dispute an argument without looking like a monster he'll change what you said into something he can attack.
What a piece of garbage.
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1) You are the only one conflating drag queens with predators. Because it supports your spurious claim that your critics are bigots. You don’t have have to want to fuck a child to want to normalize your own aberrant behavior.
If you see a drag queen and your initial thought is "that person probably wants to molest my child", then you might be a bigot, just as much as if you see an Asian person and your initial thought is "that person is probably good at math".
Why is it SO important to all the drag queens and sympathizers to have these get togethers with kids?
Why do they need to justify the exercise of their liberty to you?
Jeff is heavily reliant on the NAP but only as a line to defend his argument. That being sexual acts in front of a child are vastly different than fucking a child. His use of NAP here is the argument he has settled on because he has been destroyed so many times in these threads. But to accept his argument you have to accept his narrative showing kids porn isnt a violation. Despite parents being legally in charge of protecting their kids and being authority figures. An example of how flawed Jeff's reliance on his theory of the NAP is that Gitmo blasting music to a captured prisoner is not a violation of the NAP as no physical abuse is occurring. Jeff's argument is desperation to protect his sexual deviations.
So be specific in your argument here vis-a-vis the NAP. If children are shown images that they can't properly process, then that constitutes aggression?
Jeff. Your lines for morality, being that of pedophiles, is not the agreed to line by society.
Is filming 2 kids engaging in sexual acts a violation of the NAP yes or no? By your definition it is no.
The NAP is not only physical when done by an authority figure. Government censorship is a violation as an example. Then again you defend that too.
Keep going sea lion.
You're dangerously close to saying "let's show children pornography", and I don't think that's an accident.
Because they are causing a harm to a victim who can not consent retard.
The laws explicitly state sexual acts as part of the drag act in most of the legislation dumdum.
mature sexual topics
deviant behavior.
Well, then this gets to the crux of the matter.
Who decides what constitutes “mature sexual topics” or “deviant behavior”?
Is homosexuality a “mature sexual topic”? Is it “deviant behavior”?
Do you have a television set?
I am arguing that lying with the intent to take advantage of your lies for your gain at the expense of another meets the definition of “aggression”.
So virtually all commercial advertising is "aggression" then?
Man. Jeff is doing his best to be dishonest today.
Commercial advertisements that contain provable lies are illegal.
I am testing the limits of your definition.
Every commercial advertisement is a lie of one type or another - most of the time, it is a lie by omission. "It's America's leading brand of ketchup". Leading compared to what? "Four out of five dentists agree." Agree to what, precisely? And what did the fifth guy say?
If you were to say FRAUD is a type of aggression then I would agree with you. But you proposed a definition that is broader than fraud. For a lie to constitute fraud, there has to be some tangible loss associated with the victim that is directly related to the lie told by the perpetrator.
And furthermore, a person reading a book to a child, even if that book has lies, even if that book has 'indecent' material, wouldn't pass your definition of aggression - where is the attempt to take advantage of the kid? What loss does the kid suffer as a result of reading the book?
"I am testing the limits of your definition."
Oh, so that's what you're going with now that your argument's been dismantled and you've been once again shown to be a liar.
Words mean stuff. That you don't know what some words mean doesn't mean that others using them are "deciding" what they mean.
Mature sexual topics would be things that we traditionally wouldn’t discuss with anyone under the age of 18. Like, if you would go to jail for discussing it on Chatroulette with a minor.
Discussing the existence of homosexuality is not the same as Mr. Garrison shoving a hamster up Mr. Slave’s ass or going on about his dating life.
Good then you're not a bigot.
But one more time:
3) Nobody is saying they can’t do that shit in private. Just that it is not appropriate to explore your sexuality or gender norms in front of children.
Even if we both agree that it "it is not appropriate", that is not the same as saying it ought to be ILLEGAL.
"LOL! That is the opposite of what I said."
Totally on purpose. It's his favorite rhetorical trick.
Mature sexual topics would be things that we traditionally wouldn’t discuss with anyone under the age of 18.
But we don't all agree on that. That is my point here.
There are some parents who are fine with talking to their kids about sex even at a young-ish age. Take a look at this, I suspect this parenting guide will give many people here the vapors:
https://www.parenting.com/child/talking-to-kids-about-sex-21335549/
So, this guide recommends that it's fine to tell 5 year olds about sperm and eggs, and to talk to 2 year olds(!) about a penis and a vagina.
There simply is not one single correct way to raise a child. There are multiple correct ways, and I am just sick of the social conservatives wanting to have a veto power over the entire public square, to keep it "safe for kids", because they think they have the one and only correct way to raise a child.
Let parents take their kids to drag queen story hour. It isn't harming anyone.
There are a number of states that don't have a minimum age for marriage. So all sexual topicd are acceptable in those states.
if not exposed before puberty, indoctrination will not be nearly as effective.
And that's why putting gay kids on puberty blockers is so vital. They don't dare wait for them to develop full sexual feelings and wise up.
There's also a bit of a one-dimensional conception here as well. Between my kids, Facebook, and whomever is posting to Facebook, my kids are only part of the trust equation. I'm fairly certain I can trust my teens not to go to a bar and order a drink. Even if they do, I'm pretty sure I can trust them not to give themselves alcohol poisoning. Part of the reason I'm so sure of that is because of my kids, the other reason is because despite all the access in the community and around family, there is no culture of binge drinking. The community and family are, in part, voluntarily, self-policing and responsible for making sure it doesn't happen.
If 21 is an OK age for booze, and 18 or 21 for consensual sex or firearms, 18 for firearms... seems like keep the drag shows in the cabaret and 18 and older isn't that obscene. Especially given that that's how modern cabarets kinda originated.
Why are libraries inviting men dressed up as sexually exaggerated women to tell stories to kids?
WHY THE FUCK NOT? If it gets kids to read, and it’s not hurting anyone, why not?
Why are you so goddamn insistent that they have to justify all of their decisions to you?
Why are you standing in moral judgment over their actions? Why can't you just let them choose what they think is best, and as long as no one is getting hurt, let everyone live their own lives?
See, this is what really frosts me. It is you and your team's desire to control public spaces. You want to have veto power over every decision that impacts a public space to make it 'family friendly' and 'kid safe' regardless of what everyone else thinks - oh and it has to be YOUR definition of 'kid safe', not anyone else's.
You are demanding this cultural conformity that is suffocating and narrow. Just leave people alone. Let people live their lives. Are kids being harmed? Yes or no? The answer is no. So leave them the fuck alone. Who cares if it's a dude wearing a dress.
You refuse to acknowledge the part where it absolutely can hurt kids who end up confused because they were unnecessarily exposed to drag queens.
Who says they will be confused? Maybe they won't be confused. Maybe they will turn out just fine. Or maybe they will turn out confused, but no more confused than the kids that you raised who were undoubtedly uptight and neurotic about sex.
But at last you have conceded the point - the kids won't be harmed, they will merely be 'confused'. And if the greatest possible harm to kids in going to drag queen story hour is that they will wind up 'confused' then you need to butt out because that is NOT your concern, that is the concern of the kid's parents.
ONCE AGAIN, there is more than one way to correctly raise a child. You and your buddies don't have the monopoly on child-rearing practices and stop trying to impose it on everyone else.
In the case of transvestic disorder, men receive sexual excitement from the act of dressing in women’s clothes, and also feel intense guilt or shame as a result.
Does that sound like “no harm” to you?
What is the harm TO THE KID?
Bullshit. It isn’t just “a dude wearing a dress”. It is dudes in gowns and corsets and way too much makeup. Have you ever seen a drag queen? It is without question a sexual expression. That is what makes them “queens”.
A drag queen is typically a man wearing an outrageously garish woman's costume. Here are some drag queens:
https://qz.com/quartzy/1715788/how-rupauls-drag-race-made-lgbtq-culture-mainstream
The outfits are outrageously gaudy but they are no more revealing than typical women's clothes.
You know who aren't drag queens? These women:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6a61f354062c37a0ac310019c60c1bbe-lq
And it is completely legal for any parent to take their young children to this restaurant and eat food in their presence. And not a single one of you have said one word about banning kids from going to this restaurant 'to protect the kids'. I wonder why.
So, who is offering the more "sexual expression": the drag queens, or the Hooters girls?
“See, this is what really frosts me. It is you and your team’s desire to control public spaces.”
Oh fucking WOW!
He’s spent the entire time this afternoon demanding that his perverted cult control public spaces, and then he pretends that it’s everyone else who’s the problem.
How insanely hypocritical.
"But at last you have conceded the point – the kids won’t be harmed, they will merely be ‘confused’."
Oh, and look, Jeff's favorite trick of rewording statements and fucking with definitions, so he can argue against that instead and claim a cheap win.
“Why are you so goddamn insistent that they have to justify all of their decisions to you?”
Because they’re public institutions so the public gets a say. Just like with schools.
Nobody. Mature sexual topics are anything other than basic biology.
Hilarious. You say "nobody" decides, and then you go on to decide.
teaching the philosophy of sex and gender is unnecessary.
It's not strictly necessary in sex ed class, no. I never said it was. I think it is an important discussion to have nonetheless, in order to have well-rounded students who are tolerant and respectful to all.
Your name-calling shows you realize you have lost the argument.
Remember this is a libertarian site. You are in hostile territory when you are trying to promote legislation of morality here.
“You are in hostile territory when you are trying to promote legislation of morality here.”
Every law legislates somebody’s morality, even libertarian laws.
Every state has age of consent laws, don’t they?