Taxing the Rich Will Have No Meaningful Effect on Our Sky-High National Debt
The U.S. tax system is extremely progressive, even compared to European countries—whose governments rely on taxing the middle class.

Whenever we have a national conversation about government debt, Democrats invariably respond that spending is not the reason the debt is now nearly equal to our national GDP. The real cause of our indebtedness, they inform us, is that taxes aren't high enough and the rich don't pay their fair share. From increasing the marginal tax rate to more than 70 percent for higher-income earners, to taxing 100 percent of income above $1 billion, to the president's recent debt ceiling plan, Democrats overflow with ideas about how to tax us more.
Not only do these ideas reflect incredible ignorance of economic reality, they're also unlikely to have any meaningful effect on our debt levels and would surely slow the economy.
Let's be clear: America's debt problem isn't the result of former President Donald Trump's tax cuts. While I believe these tax cuts should have been offset by closing some of our many loopholes and reducing government spending, they didn't cause our fiscal problems. The fiscal imbalance is not because of reduced revenues. Last year, federal revenue as a share of the economy was a full percentage point above the historical average.
As the Cato Institute's Adam Michel reminded Congress recently, "It's new spending that drives the deficit. For example, President Biden has added about $5 trillion in unnecessary spending to the national debt. That's more than three times the 10-year revenue reduction of the 2017 tax cuts." Trump was no better. Before the pandemic, I often lamented ballooning budget deficits under the Trump administration. And there's also plenty of justified blame for presidents before Trump.
Maybe more importantly, trying to reduce the deficit by raising taxes on the rich is unfair and ineffective. Rich people in America already pay a large amount of taxes. That is true regardless of whether you look at the total amounts they pay or relative amounts. That's because the federal tax system is extremely progressive, even compared to European countries.
European governments pay for their large governments by taxing the middle class. Testifying before the Senate Budget Committee, Michel remarked that if the average middle class taxpayer were to move to Europe, he would pay in taxes an additional $16,000 annually. The Tax Foundation meanwhile calculated that "If the U.S. taxed personal income in the same way that Denmark does, all income over $82,000 would be taxed at over 55 percent."
But even if one assumes that Congress could extract much more revenue from rich people without hurting capital accumulation, investment, and jobs, there still isn't enough income earned by rich people to pay down next year's deficit, let alone the deficits in the next 10 years. Besides, does anyone really believe that if Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) and friends had their way, rich people would continue laboring and earning as much income as they do now?
This is all the more frustrating because we know how to get our debt under control. There's an entire literature on the issue. It shows that countries that successfully reduce their debt-to-GDP ratio adopt fiscal adjustment packages that consist mostly of spending restraints. On the other hand, countries that try to lower their debt with tax increases not only fail, but also experience larger and longer-lived recessions.
The belief that we can reduce the deficit by taxing more revenue also overlooks the actual spending behavior of politicians. Regardless of how they justify a tax hike, when politicians get their hands on more revenue, they often use it to spend more. The result is rising, not reduced, deficits. Economist Richard Vedder and his co-authors, for instance, found that in the 1980s, every $1 raised by additional taxes generated $1.58 of additional spending. This study was revised at least three times (in 1991, 2007, and 2010) and each time produced the same results.
Finally, changes in taxes, especially in marginal tax rates, have a broader and overlooked effect on the skills and earning power of workers, as well as on overall labor market efficiency. A few years ago, Aparna Mathur, Sita Slavov, and Michael Strain showed that in the long term, a more progressive tax system reduces the incentives to accumulate human capital. For instance, higher taxes on higher earners could incentivize a student entering medical school to become a pediatrician rather than a higher-earning surgeon. We need both, but that's how shortages of surgeons are made.
Here's the bottom line: Congress and the White House must reduce the deficit, and the only realistic way of doing so is by dramatically curtailing spending.
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Cut spending.
Just like you do at home when things get tight.
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You mean you don’t owe more than you make in a year in short term debt and 10x as much in long term debt?
Luddite!
This statement was made at my house.
Don’t forget that Obama (peace be upon him) stated (admitted?) that “even if raising taxes on the wealthy results in less overall revenue generation (il.e.,, total taxes paid in to government) he would still support those increases the basis of ‘fairness’ ”. Sometimes you reach the point when you just don’t need to
earnbe allowed to keep another dollar.Once you are brought to the point of thinking like or agreeing with the premise of that last sentence, the only point of debate then becomes at what point should a 100% tax bracket kick in. Why not at one dollar above “the poverty level”? Wouldn’t people still keep deferring gratification to get an education and improve themselves? Wouldn’t people still keep working at unpleasant jobs and grabbing overtime when they can get it? Wouldn’t entrepreneurs still take risks to improve things and make a buck?
They wouldn’t!?!?!?!? Really?? Then let’s have the government make’em!!
Too bad slogans don't do much to cut spending.
Neither does raising taxes.
But that's because The Fed won't print more money for us.
You can always count on Reason to put #BillionairesFirst.
I wrote this back in 2019.
"not even one year of the Federal budget, or three years' deficit" is a little out of date, as are the money amounts, but not the general conclusion.
I did the same exercise more than once. Even confiscating the entire wealth of all the US billionaires doesn't make a dent.
"I added up the Forbes 400 on 30 Jan 2019. It came to $2.891T."
The last time I ran the numbers, the TOTAL WEALTH of said Forbes' persons would fund the Federal government for seven months.
As the article states, most European countries tax the hell out of the middle-class.
CUT SPENDING.
It's more like 5 months now.
FY2023 budget: 6.2 trillion dollars
2.891/6.2 = 0.466
0.466 x 12 = 5.6 months
This is a silly argument. If you taxed the rich enough, the national debt could be paid off easily. 32 trillion means that if you just taxed the richest 32,000 people in the country 1 billion dollars each, the debt would be paid off. I haven't actually checked, but I'm sure that there are at least 32,000 multi-billionaires in the United States who could easily afford a billion dollar haircut.
“The 550 U.S. billionaires together are worth $2.5 trillion. If we confiscated 100% of their wealth, we’d raise enough to run the federal government for less than eight months.” – Hypothetically, seizing the estimated $5 trillion in current wealth from America’s billionaires would be enough to run the federal government for about eight months, based on what was spent in fiscal year 2021. – left leaning politifact
"America is now home to almost 800 billionaires" - far left Vox, so you are about 31200 billionares short on your tax plan.
Almost all are liberals, Democrats and most live in liberal US cities. Alice Walton is the exception. Why are they Democrats? The Democrats give them the most tax breaks!
"The San Francisco area is the third-most-common home for billionaires, up from fifth place in 2016. The other US cities now among the biggest billionaire concentrations are New York (No. 1 overall, with 113) and Los Angeles (No. 7 overall, with 44)."
- far left Vox
The collective wealth of America’s 651 billionaires has jumped by over $1 trillion since roughly the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic to a total of $4 trillion at market close on Monday, December 7, 2020. Their wealth growth since March is more than the $908 billion in pandemic relief proposed by a bipartisan group of members of Congress, which is likely to be the package that moves forward for a vote in the next week, but has been stalled over Republican concerns that it is too costly.
"The total net worth of the nation’s 651 billionaires rose from $2.95 trillion on March 18—the rough start of the pandemic shutdowns—to $4.01 trillion on Dec. 7, a leap of 36%, based on Forbes billionaires, according to a new report by Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) and the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS). By around March 18 most federal and state economic restrictions in response to the virus were in place. Combined, just the top 10 billionaires are now worth more than $1 trillion."
That leaves your calculation about 28$ trillion short.
The U.S. government has collected $2.69 trillion in fiscal year 2023. Compared to the federal revenue of $2.99 trillion for the same period last year (Oct 2021 – Apr 2022) federal revenue has decreased by $299 billion. – fiscaldata.treasury.gov
The government has a spending problem, not a tax problem. WAKE THE FUCK UP!
How about it has both a spending and a tax problem?
Man, you are dumb.
No, he's right about America having a tax problem; taxes are too high!
He wants them to be higher.
Nothing gets through to you, does it? We have a spending problem, case closed.
Amen!
Tax revenues are about 4 trillion dollars a year (and haven't dropped after the last round of tax cuts), which was enough to fully fund the government just 5 years ago.
In those 5 years, spending has gone up 50%.
Sounds like a spending problem.
It turns out that property tax rates in NYC, SF, and LA are much lower than in most of the rest of the US. SF and LA re because of Proposition 13 but NYC is because the city just doesn't want to have high property taxes on homeowners -- it gives it a competitive advantage over the suburbs whose property tax rates are almost confiscatory.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with the immoral income taxes they confiscate from workers.
More like 5 months now.
Sarcasm? You're not normally a pants-on-head moron...
President Obama seemed to think that anyone making $250,000 was a millionaire. Using that kind of fuzzy government math, there might be a lot more "billionaires" too.
Yes, that was a silly argument. At last count, there were 735 billionaires in the US. There are only 3,141 billionaires in the entire world. That's rather a lot short of the 32,000 heads you need to cut hair from.
No doubt there are 30 or 40K billionaires hiding their money from us under the mattress. I say we pick up our pitchforks and torches and go get 'em.
Don’t forget Scrooge McDuck’s money bin.
And the budget could be balanced tomorrow if everyone paid their fair share. FY2023 spending will be 6.2 trillion dollars, and there are 258 million adults in the USA. If each one paid their fair share of spending (24,000 dollars each), the budget would balanced. It also would finally create some political will to constrain spending, if people got the actual bill.
Or they could just cut spending back to the level from 5 years ago (4 trillion), and balance the budget without raising taxes on anyone.
Yet no one considers themself rich, there are few very rich, and most people are down right ignorant to totally stupid, so it makes good liberal "Democratic Socialist" propaganda.
Oh, and by the way, the rich are already paying their fair share, except for Federal politicians and their families selling influence!
"You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."
There is no objective standard for what defines “fair share”; it is a purely subjective concept. But there are facts, which are objective, and the facts suggest that the U.S. tax and fiscal system is very progressive and very redistributive. These facts are contrary to popular opinion and contrary to the premise of this hearing.
Internal Revenue Service (IRS) data indicates that the wealthy in America are bearing the heaviest share of the income tax burden than in any time in recent memory. On the other hand, more than 53 million low- and middle-income taxpayers pay no income taxes after benefiting from record amounts of tax credits, and six out of 10 households receive more in direct government benefits than they pay in all federal taxes.
Meanwhile, the U.S. tax system is one of the most “business dependent” systems anywhere as American businesses pay or remit 93 percent of the nation’s taxes. Economic studies show that workers bear at least half of the economic burden of corporate taxes through lower wages, with women, the low-skilled, and younger workers impacted the most. And because the corporate income tax is the most harmful tax for economic growth, raising the corporate tax rate would not only slow the economy, it would also make the U.S. an outlier once again against our global trading partners." -taxfoundation.org
With "Democratic socialist" you can never pay enough taxes, and the rich are already taxed, so sooner or later the "rich" becomes the wage earning working class and the working poor.
No one will ever provide a definition of “fair share”. As far as I can tell, it means "Other people must pay more, and I must pay less."
The fair share people think you are rich and not paying enough, and that they are paying to much no matter how little they pay.
I defined it above. A "fair share" is an equal share, or 24K each for all 258 million US adults, to be able to raised the 6.2 trillion Congress plans to spend in FY2023.
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I looked up the numbers for a posting I made some ten years ago somewhere else during the Obama "tax the rich" years. I should probably look up the current numbers, but I'm too lazy to do so at the moment. The points are almost certainly still valid:
In the last year for which data is available, 2011, the highest marginal tax rate was 35%. This rate was paid on AGI above $379,150. Certainly someone with AGI over that value is in the well-to-do category, but may not be "millionaires and billionaires" (OTOH Pres. Obama seemed to think income of $250,000 equates to "millionaire", but this is immaterial to my point). According to the IRS, the number of returns that were in this highest marginal rate was 922,346. That means there's nearly a million households in this country that are, at least by the IRS bracket definition, "rich".
According to the IRS, the cumulative amount of AGI subjected to this highest rate was $554,356,113,000, so let's round up to $555B. The taxes generated on this money is therefore $194B. The overall effective rate for these returns (taxes paid / income) was 29.2%.
Let's assume for a moment (no matter how unrealistic the assumption is) that no one affected would change a lick of their income-generating behavior as a result even if we raised the top marginal rate to 100% and confiscated all income from everyone who touched the $379,150 bracket threshold. How much revenue would that generate? Why, all of $555B, if no one modified their behavior in any way that affected their income and tax impact. That is, it would generate an additional $361B in revenue relative to the 35% bracket.
If you added that $361B to the 2011 revenue pot, the deficit for 2011 would STILL have been $939B (2011 deficit was $1.3T).
It is Democratic propaganda to cause division by wealth. They also divide by race, sex, and class along with wealth. Why do the Democrats want to divide the nation? So they can gain total unmitigated dictatorial powers.
Written last September:
Remember a few months ago, when Sen Warren was pushing for an (unconstitutional) wealth tax on millionaires and billionaires?
Three U.S. Senators believe Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon.com Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN) and owner of the Washington Post, has too much money. They want to impose a tax that would make him pay the federal government $71.3 billion. The tax also would hit three other billionaires hard. They would be taxed on 60% of their income from March 18, 2020, until January 1, 2021. So, a great deal of the tax would cover the period since the COVID-19 pandemic slammed America. Notably, no American who made less than $1 billion over the period would be taxed. The proposal almost certainly will not be voted into law.
It was pointed out that valuation on the wealth would be problematic. Because none of the "made" anything...their stock shares had (temporarily) increased in valuation, but if they didn't sell them or take a salary, they didn't have any "income" close to $1B. I know it's hard to feel much sympathy for their problems, but it certainly doesn't seem fair to charge them taxes on unrealized gains--*you* wouldn't want to pay taxes on stock you owned then went up on the day before "tax valuation day" then dropped way down by "pay your taxes day" such that even if you sold the stock you wouldn't be able to pay the taxes...
Case in point (last week):
The world’s richest men suffered dents to their net worth after stocks had their worst day in two years on Tuesday.
Jeff Bezos’ wealth plunged by $9.8 billion and Elon Musk net worth dropped by $8.4 billion. Musk remains the world’s richest man with a net worth of $256 billion, according to Bloomberg’s Billionaire Index. Bezos is second at $150 billion.
The wealth of Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergey Brin and Steve Ballmer all declined by more than $4 billion, while Warren Buffett and Bill Gates lost $3.4 billion and $2.8 billion, respectively.
Earlier in the year:
May 1, 2022Jeff Bezos is $20.5 billion poorer. The second richest man in the world lost this huge sum in 24 hours. To be more precise, this big loss happened during the April 29 stock market session.
And then there's this:
Musk's net worth dropped by $6 billion, Bill and Melinda Gates lost $27 and $26 billion, and Jeff Bezos shed $46 billion.
But Zuckerberg's losses dwarfed them all. The founder of Facebook, renamed Meta Platforms in November, dropped 14 spots in the outlet's index since the start of the year and now is at No. 20.
In September 2021, he clocked in at $142 billion, according to Bloomberg.
Now, he has an estimated net worth of $55.3 billion.
That is the problem with evaluating the net worth of a billionaire. So much of it is based on estimates of what the stock holdings would bring on the market, which is dependent on what the market currently thinks thinks the company is worth at any given moment. What the market thinks could change drastically as new information comes in. Therefore unrealized capital gains are something of a phantom, rather than a real thing.
It's more than just naturally volatile values. It's that the only way to turn those stock prices into actual cash which the government can use is to sell them, and the only people who can afford to buy them are also selling off their stock, so the price plummets like a rock.
And worse than just the realized revenue dropping and requiring selling even more to match the pre-sale theoretical price, now all those businesses whose stock price has dropped have to cut back on investments, lay off employees, and otherwise cut back.
The economic ignorance of our betters is appalling.
That isn't the problem. There actually isn't a philosophical problem with wealth taxes and the federal government enacted five of them in the 18th and 19th centuries. The problem is that as a direct tax it would need to be apportioned by state population and be almost impossible to administer. People in rich states would get taxed at a much higher rate than people in poor states. Billionaires would rush to relocate to New York and Connecticut!
That was their whole argument to go after Trump for being a billionaire that didn’t pay taxes his last year in office. But we have an income tax, not a wealth tax. Trump turned his salary over to the US treasury except for $1 dollar as the president is required to take a salary by law. Trump donate his foriegn profits to the US Treasury. Trump had his two adult sons manage his investments he put in a trust, which they were very bad at, so lost billions in the Pandemic. So Trump had no income and negative income.
Losses exceed income you pay no tax, no matter how rich you are. Get that through your thick skulls liberals. If your losses exceeded your income, you would pay no taxes either, Nothing special, nothing illegal, nothing to see here.
Imagine carrying water for rich fucks all damn day. What a job you have.
Envy will get you nowhere.
You are just jealous of Taylor Swift.
Taxing the rich isn’t about the budget.
It’s about making the capitalist pigs pay for their crimes.
Being successful is a crime now.
Got to punish people for being successful, right? Even though that won’t solve anything and will actually make things worse for everyone.
But you’re an idiot democrat.
Ask a Democrat they can explain to you what it is like.
Imagine being such a piece of shit you think you’re entitled to other peoples money.
Oh, and the taxes never stop at the rich, so you’re just trying to get more of MY money, you envious fuck.
"If the U.S. taxed personal income in the same way that Denmark does, all income over $82,000 would be taxed at over 55 percent."
And Denmark is the happiest place on earth.
Huh. I've heard it was Finland. Because givermint healthcare or something.
It's also a very homogeneous society, with almost 90% native Danes. Most of the non-Danish are immigrants from Euro-zone countries or Asia.
Happy in that they have very low expectations in life. Beaten down by the State.
Actually they have high expectations in life and usually exceed them. It helps the they have low cost higher education and healthcare. Copenhagen is the only city in the world other than New York City where the subways run all night. They get what they pay for.
What they don't have is socialism, contrary to what Bernie Sanders says. It is a capitalist country with a big broad safety net.
Look at conservative Reason licking the boots of the rich people who hold us down. What can this article be other than defense for the rich? Only conservatives defend the rich, which means Reason is conservative. What a bunch of MAGA dopes.
Crawl back under your rock you sniveling pussy.
Fear me.
Then explain to me why 19 of the richest billionaires are Democrat? Only Alice Walton of Walmart is a conservative due to her rural Arkansas roots. The rest are Democrats for their tax breaks for the rich, not because they have a burning desire to pay more taxes!
You are a FUCKING fool.
Depends on your definition of "rich", doesn't it?
If you define "middle class" as households from 50% of the median household income ($35,090) to 200% of the median household income ($140,362.00), then "the rich" start at the 78th percentile of household income, or just short of the beginning of the uppermost quintile ($149,212). Defining households in the upper quintile as "the rich" is a perfectly justifiable move.
Sure, that means defining "the rich" in a manner that takes square aim at blue state members of the managerial-professional class who vote Democrat, but, hey, they voted to tax the rich, why not give them what they want?
Why do you think Biden defined rich as 400K? Because a lot of people in blue states make 200K or 300K.
Except the number of voters who sincerely believe that soaking the rich will solve all our budget woes overnight is extraordinarily high. True Beleebers all of them. And they keep electing Lizzie Warren types.
Maybe instead of whining about politicians all the time we tried educating voters. If only there were a foundation dedicated to the ideals of free markets and free minds. Oh wait...
If only there were a foundation dedicated to the ideals of free markets and free minds. Oh wait…
There is, but they are critical of Republicans when they oppose free markets and free minds. Only leftists criticize Republicans, which means free markets and free minds are leftist.
Run away little girl, run away.
Triggered?
FEE?
You can't educate a low information voter. They will never allow their narrow beliefs to be challenged.
Ron White put it the best:
You can't fix stupid!
"raising taxes on the rich is unfair"
"Besides, does anyone really believe ... rich people would continue laboring and earning as much income as they do now?"
The above two quotes from this piece are really all that it is about. It's just De Rugy's fanfiction of Atlas Shrugged.
It's probably true that increasing corporate and upper-bracket taxes wouldn't, in isolation, solve any deficit/debt issues.
Not only because not enough revenue is there, but also because these groups can afford to avoid paying taxes.
These two groups are also always looking for state and local tax breaks, so they don't even have to pay what everyone else pays.
Generally consumer spending is viewed as important to the economy and growth. The federal government is a big consumer and spender. Red and Blue state members of congress are always trying to direct this spending to be within their state, or looking for tax exemptions for their preferred constituents.
It's hard to say what the economy would be like with less federal spending. To think that it would all be good is probably a mistake.
There are not enough rich to tax, and most people are not rich, so the spending will continue. There is no way to vote it out. Eventually the US will have a VAT or something in order to make the masses pay for it all. The rich will find some kind of exemption, you can be sure.
Right. We couldn't possibly leave wealth in the hands of the people to spend on what they want. Government needs to take it and spend it on the things politicians and bureaucrats want.
It's not hard at all to say what the economy would be like with less federal spending than is in the current budget. Just look at last year. Or 5 years ago. Or 10 years ago. Or, hell, anytime that we weren't busting the budget for either a major war or pandemic. It wasn't all good - and nobody anywhere claims it was. But it was a hell of a lot less bad.
You may be right that "the spending will continue" but I hope not. Countries that fail to impose discipline on themselves inevitably find that the externally-imposed discipline is worse.
Here is why the richest billionaires will never pay the higher “richest Americans” income tax.
The total compensation for all three years included a base salary of $100,000. The company disclosed that Buffett’s annual salary has been $100,000 “for more than the past 25 years,” and that he receives no bonus or any form of equity-based compensation.
he rest of Buffett’s total compensation package was the value of personal and home security services provided by the company, which totaled $273,204 in 2021, $280,328 in 2020 and $274,773 in 2019.
But don’t feel too bad for Buffett for not getting a raise, a June 2021 13D filing showed that he owned 238,624 shares of Class A common stock and 2,412 shares of Class B common stock.
The Class A shares rose 1.1% and the Class B shares gained 1.0% in afternoon trading Monday. At current prices, Buffett’s disclosed holdings are worth about $118.14 billion. That compares with Berkshire Hathaway’s market capitalization of roughly $723.1 billion.
-marketwatch 2022
Jeff Bezos made $81,840 last year. He’s still the richest person in the world – 2019 – CNN
But Amazon (AMZN) pays a ton of money every year to keep its CEO safe. Bezos has received $1.6 million in security-related services and business travel each year since 2010 and at least $1.1 million since 2003 when the company first started reporting security expenses as part of Bezos’ total compensation.
In 2011, Jeff Bezos, the billionaire CEO of Amazon, in federal income taxes. That same year, when his net worth was valued at around $18 billion, he filed for and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children, ProPublica reported. - businessinside
Understand the people that hold the most stock in these publicly traded companies and are CEO’s take little salary. There living expenses are covered as safety and protection by the corporation, so are an expense and write off for the corp. Their compensation is generally in stocks, preferred stock and bonds. They will only pay tax when they withdraw money from their holdings, which they don’t need to do as the corporation is paying millions for their living expenses.
Now the government knows this fact. They tax wait people not on tips, but on a percentage of their receipts whether they get tipped or not. I have a church board member that him and a few friends started an investment company. They left their profits in the company to grow the company. They were told by the IRS they weren’t paying themselves enough and were force to increase their salaries and pay a fine.
But where are Democrats forcing these billionaires to withdraw a percentage of their holding and pay tax on that withdrawal? That is not happening, they go after wait staff and hard working people, and ignore the abuses of the billionaires, that 19 of the top twenty are Democrats themselves.
The Democrats know this! Their tax the rich is taxing YOU!
Bezos, Buffett, etc maintain their wealth/power by ensuring that the companies they own don't really pay dividends. Their companies never reward shareowners directly. They only reward shareholders who churn and leave. Which in turn mainly rewards Wall St - and the CEO's/agents of other companies who no longer have to compete for financing by delivering an actual return on investment. And I suspect they are also behind the tax distortions behind favoring debt over equity, double-taxing dividends, and taxing capital gains instead of wealth (offset by tax games re capital 'losses' and wash sales).
The value of a wealth tax would be to eliminate those distortions for everyone. Not to directly raise revenues.
Bingo. Thank you. The oligarchs really do like the current system.
Because they are all Democrats and Democrats cater to them with their system regardless of their rhetoric. The real distinction is between “earned income” and “capital gains”. Their plan to tax unrealized capital gains was to steal the wealth of the working class, as homes and retirement accounts increased in value. There would have been exemptions of some kind for the mega billionaires because their wealth fluctuates so much even a day to day basis.
As I said they force wait staff to report on receipts not actual tips, they forced the investment advisors I know to pay themselves more and fined them, but Billionaires are never forced to sell their holding to realize capitol gains.
Not that I am saying that should be done, all three examples are wrong in my opinion (and probably unconstitutional, but hey the little guy can't afford to sue and take it to the Supreme Court), but I highlighted theses examples to show how they favor their mega-rich campaign donors.
The system will never tax the truly wealthy that support the system. Wealth tax, flat tax, graduated income tax there will be loopholes for the truly wealthy that support candidates with large campaign donations. if you think otherwise, you are a fool.
Instead of term limits - after the first 8 years in office any government official has thier tax rate is raised to 100%.
Do you think current House Reps and Senators will vote for term limits? Do you think current House Reps and Senators will allow a national referendum that would limit their terms? Do you think state politicians with dreams of federal office will vote for a Constitutional convention that will limit federal terms they dream of?
Dream on, dream on!
compared to European countries—whose governments rely on taxing the middle class
Because any tax based on income is mostly targeted at the middle-class. And in Europe at least, spending is financed more by taxes than by debt. Greece and maybe Italy have higher debt loads than the US. Everyone else is lower - and by a lot. Debt has its own class-based (and politically 'free') impact.
Switzerland has the right approach imo. They understand that different taxes hit different classes - sales/VAT hits the lower income who still have to consume, income hits the middle who have to keep on earning income, wealth hits the rich who can choose how to manage their assets. The result (at the federal level - cantonal taxes are different but all part of a single combined tax return for residents):
VAT - 3% on necessities, 8% on everything else
Income - 12% max with a roughly $30k exemption
Wealth - 0.7% with a roughly $250k or $500k exemption
The result is a level of federal spending (as a % of GDP) that we haven't seen in the US since 1929. A debt load (40% of GDP) that we haven't seen since 1985. Marginal tax rates that are low enough to not distort behavior and that highly incentivize becoming wealthy - with the result that the bottom-40% in the US own nothing and have no safety net where in Switzerland the bottom-40% have about $10,000 (not home equity) saved for rainy day/net.
Which also makes for a healthy political base that can keep opposing left attempts at 'tax grabbiness' for ever-increasing spending and right attempts at tax cronyism and debt-financed spending. One might even call the FDP.Liberals 'classical liberal'.
Or just cut spending.
I think your data on the Swiss wealth tax is incorrect on some important points. First, it is a very broad-based tax. It hits many merely-middle-class households.
Second, there are some interesting studies analyzing the differential rates charged by the different cantons and municipalities to show that even relatively small differences in the wealth tax rate result in very large differences in reported wealth.
The study considered and found evidence to reject the hypothesis that the reported wealth decrease was due to non-compliance. They also considered and rejected the hypothesis of wealth flight (though the evidence against that was weaker). Their primary conclusion was that incremental wealth taxes really did lead to lower wealth accumulation – and that’s not good for long-term economic growth.
Interesting study. And I kind of agree – but with a different conclusion.
The purpose of the wealth tax isn’t to directly raise revenue – or shouldn’t be – and definitely shouldn’t be assessed as if that is the goal. It is for those asset owners to make the decisions necessary to take those assets out of tax loopholes that exist in an income tax system and into the income tax system. To change behaviors for those who can easily game an income tax system.
Many assets are structured for the primary purpose of tax games/shelters. Even in Switzerland which has become wealthy in part because it plays those games for the rest of the world. So yes a ‘wealth tax’ will almost by definition reduce the wealth devoted to those totally anti-productive assets based on tax games. That doesn’t mean actual wealth is reduced.
It mostly means, in the case of say financial assets in the US, that company boards will start paying dividends to share owners rather than retaining all earnings untaxed. To the wealthy – those dividends will now become income – and taxable. To everyone else – they can buy and hold and participate in corporate governance and still be rewarded with income at a MUCH lower marginal income tax rate. That also encourages lower income and poor to SAVE via ownership of assets because they will receive a benefit long before they become wealthy and without having to learn all the buy-sell-buy-sell-buy-sell-buy-sell timing decisions that the no-ROI-owner-churn system requires.
I do agree that a US wealth tax would have to have a higher threshold exemption than the Swiss one – because states already impose a (poorly constructed) form of wealth tax – aka property tax.
What is interesting about that study is that it does not conclude that the wealthy in Switzerland move from canton to canton in response to the cantonal level of wealth tax. Rather the wealthy stay in a canton where they can retain political influence.
Accountability and self-governance is a FAR better form of political action than exit. Just as rewarding share owners is a far better form of corporate governance than only letting share owners benefit by exiting their ownership.
The purpose of ANY tax ABSOLUTELY SHOULD be to raise revenue. Taxes SHOULD NOT be for any other purpose. If you want to regulate behavior, just come out and do it.
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The statement that the US has the most progressive tax system is not born out by facts.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/highest-taxed-countries
Americans demand more services than they are willing to pay for. Hence we have the government borrow.
Few Americans demand more service then they are willing to pay for. Politicians try to buy votes by providing a multitude of services to those that pay nothing in taxes. That is the problem. I could do without 90% of government services, because I benefit from none of them.
It doesn't actually matter if the US is the MOST progressive or not. The fact that matters is that tax rates are too high and suppress economic growth.
Americans DO NOT demand MOST of the "services" the government spends money to provide. In fact, if you had an in depth conversation with most people, they would support far less than half of the so called services.
Taxing the rich would definitely have an effect on the national debt.
The rich would leave, the tax base would go down, and the national debt would go up even faster.
Taxing the rich will REDUCE the tax base and INCREASE the national debt.
Only reducing BOTH government spending AND tax rates will even slow the growth of the national debt.
Stop Spending????
The honest phrase would be, "STOP STEALING!!!".
“STOP STEALING!!!”.
That TJJ2000 is a truly libertarian statement.
Something I haven’t seen on Reason.com for over 6.5 years when liberal sites started censoring comments sending liberal trolls and frustrated conservatives here and Reason staff started suffering from TDS.
I miss those old days!
The truly rich will never be taxed. The Iron Law of Taxation states that your tax rate is inversely proportional to the number of lobbyists at your disposal.
The way to solve the national debt problem is to cut the size of the Federal government. For starters, layoff about 300,000 people, or about 10% of the Federal workforce. This would save an enormous amount of money. Then eliminate regulatory agencies like the EPA. When things get tough, private companies layoff people. The Federal government never has any layoffs. If tax revenues are forecast to go down, then layoff people like private companies do. The National Debt problem is a Federal staffing and agency problem.
Did Veronica Rugby vote for Biden like Boehm and Sullum?