Democrats Deride the Twitter Files Reporters as 'So-Called Journalists'
Members of Congress showed their true colors at a Thursday hearing.

The House Judiciary Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government held a hearing Thursday on the Twitter Files, giving independent journalists Matt Taibbi and Michael Shellenberger the opportunity to present their reporting to Congress.
The Twitter Files, which show that multiple arms of the federal government—including the FBI, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the State Department, and the White House under both Presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden—pressured social media companies to restrict speech, are of some concern to Republican lawmakers; it was Rep. Jim Jordan (R–Ohio) who invited Taibbi and Shellenberger to attend. Since government action is at the core of this insidious push for censorship—which is also present at Facebook, as Reason's investigation has shown—it is appropriate for Congress to probe, and hopefully, to limit, the federal bureaucracy's ability to shape the rules of online discourse.
Frustratingly, the Democrats who participated in the hearing on Thursday could not have cared less about the federal government's role in promoting social media censorship. Indeed, the Democratic representatives involved in the proceedings turned their fire on Taibbi and Shellenberger, not bothering to hold back their disdain for the pair.
Del. Stacey Plaskett (D–V.I.) got the ball rolling by referring to Taibbi and Shellenberger as "so-called journalists." (Taibbi responded by pointing out that he has won multiple journalism awards, including the National Magazine Award.) Rep. Sylvia Garcia (D–Texas) seized upon the idea that perhaps the pair—she actually referred to them as part of a "threesome" with journalist Bari Weiss—had perhaps been paid to provide such testimony. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D–Fla.) took this line of inquiry a bit further, ludicrously suggesting that somehow Taibbi's reporting was suspect because he had grown his own Twitter following and Substack readership because of it. She really seemed to think that it was unethical for good journalism to reap financial rewards for the author.
But it wasn't just tone-deaf personal attacks. The Democrats also expressed a profound disinterest in social media censorship, bordering on furtive support. Rep. Dan Goldman (D–N.Y.) asserted that the Twitter Files had not produced a single genuine example of government censoring lawful speech. Jordan cut in and provided just such an example: the White House flagging a tweet from Robert Kennedy Jr. about vaccines for deletion. Goldman troublingly suggested—without actually reading the tweet in question—that perhaps it wasn't lawful.
Rep. Colin Allred (D–Texas) similarly implied that there might be justification for censorship in the name of preventing hate speech. Twitter, Facebook, and other social media companies are of course free to implement policies designed to curb harassment and hateful conduct; the question is whether a vast and self-serving federal bureaucracy that intervenes incessantly to limit speech it disfavors has effectively violated the First Amendment.
Taibbi and Shellenberger clashed repeatedly with members of Congress over the nature of misinformation and disinformation. Rep. Stephen Lynch (D–Mass.) thought he'd scored a hit when he prompted Shellenberger to concede that the release of Hillary Clinton's emails—and widespread distribution on social media—was the result of a successful hacking operation. But as Taibbi swiftly pointed out, just because the information was illicitly or illegally obtained does not make it misinformation. The content of the emails was authentic.
Too many Democrats, national security experts, and mainstream journalists have found themselves in the position of implicitly arguing that various tweets could be spreading disinformation—and thus undermining American democracy—even if the speech contained therein is truthful. Indeed, the entire countering-disinformation industry is operating off of a largely false assumption that Russian influence on social media corrupted the 2016 election and led to Trump's victory.
Yet this industry is awash in public funding. The State Department has backed a British nonprofit that discourages advertisers from working with "risky" U.S. news websites, including Reason. This is the danger of the U.S. government's ham-fisted, constitutionally suspect effort to curb disfavored speech.
It is disappointing that congressional Democrats are taking little interest in the weaponization of the federal government against Americans' speech rights; on the contrary, they think the weapon needs sharpening.
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I didn’t watch anything from these hearings, other than a clip of Sylvia Garcia being confused about who Bari Weiss is. Was it entertaining or informative?
AF, as the kids say. Check out Glenn Greenwald's feed for good, summarized hilarity.
Oh, and last night commenter Ctyo helpfully pointed out a blue check journo on twitter posting these exchanges as though… and I have a hard time saying this with a straight face… but… as though Garcia was pwning Matt Taibbi. Ie, the stuff that mainstream Journolisming thinks is a win is a fantastic self-own.
You're basically going to have to redub the entire audio if you want those two clowns to sound salient.
The guy who added audio to the J6 committee's video is probably available and looking for work.
Yes! Garcia and Plaskett were so mind boggling stupid they even exasperated their fellow Dems. They made Biden sound like a rhetorical savant and AOC a genius in comparison.
Someone had obviously told them to question everything, but didn't count on them being quite so ignorant to the point where they'd question "everything".
Deny everything, Baldrick
They were almost up to Hank "Guam might tip over" Johnson or Sheila Jackson Lee levels of stupidity. I think it's safe to say when they retire (or die in office) we have their successors right here.
They'd have to beet Maxine Waters (granted I've not seen the clips of this yet hearing).
The ranking democrat was definitely auditioning for Waters spot.
As a resident of Waters' disctrict in CA, I can assure the audience at home that the population is so selectively gerrymandered that she'll continue to recieve 70% of the vote here for at least 3 full election cycles after her death unless the State Party leadership gets tricked into not keeping her name on the ballot.
They probably consider Don Lemon a journalist.
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1634252471567630339?t=KxshQ8ZA8G2rJD1rd63UkA&s=19
At the Twitter Files hearing, @RepColinAllred implored the two journalists present to "take off the tin-foil hat" and consider that our noble "national security agencies" are in fact "trying their best" to prevent hurt and protect democracy.
[Video]
Yes the government should definitely be in the business of “preventing hurt.” Jesus Christ the lunacy of these people is beyond belief.
Democrats humiliated themselves.
So, it’s okay then to post on all social media sites, that Trump was accused of molesting/raping a 13 yr old along with Epstein? It never made it to court because the girls life was threatened. There are public court records online. So it is true. Look it up. Do you think Trump would allow me to post that on his social media sites ????? I heard that he… ALSO…. shuts down people who post negative…but true…stuff about him. If it is a privately owned social media site…aren’t we taking away THEIR freedom then, by telling them how to run their company?? Just something to think about.
Those are groundless accusations without evidence. There's nothing that suggests that Trump orchestrated what government agencies did with Twitter, Facebook, etc, let alone get involved in what Epstein did. You are lying.
Sorry I wasn't specific enough. I meant he does it on his truth social. I do not know if he did on Twitter, etc. And I am not lying about him being accused of molesting that 13yr old with Epstein. She had two witnesses. Please look up the official court documents online. If she were lying, he would have sued her for defamation of character. ANYONE who thinks their party is any better than the other, is just a follower. BOTH parties lie, and have the same amount of horrible people. The only way this divisiveness is going to stop, is to drop "party" labels, and let everyone run as Independents.
Whether Trump "orchestrated" it or not, he still bears some responsibility. As President, he was the head of the executive branch, and as such responsible for anything executive agencies did. Even if he had no idea it was going on, then he was negligent for not know what people who ultimately answered to him were doing. His oft-stated desire for greater controls on speech doesn't exactly help his case, either.
Oh Maryallen. You want to join the stupid Democrats?
Um, yeah, that's kind of the whole point to the "Twitter Files", that the government was pressuring social media companies to do things the government had no legal authority to do directly. If the management of those companies take down posts they don't like, that's their decision to make whether I happen to agree with it or not. When they do so because of pressure from the government, that represents a clear violation of the 1A.
I listened to most of yesterday's hearing. The ignorance on display by the democrats was a sight to see. I didn't know whether to laugh or weep. Representatives who had never heard of Substack, didn't know of Matt Taibbi's journalism history, and had no idea of the employment history or reporting by Bari Weiss, seemed to celebrate their own ignorance. Aren't they supposed to have staff that prepare them for such hearings so they can at least appear somewhat knowledgeable about the subject matter?
Their lack of interest or even acknowledgment regarding suppression of free speech by government officials and their allegations that speech that goes against the government narrative is "unlawful", should require each and every one of them to resign in shame.
I'm honestly surprised Garcia can even dress herself after seeing her in action. I guess Fetterman is one of the smart ones.
Even in 2023 it still sort of amazes me how much this has become a partisan issue. I get that this is the machine protecting the machine but from what I have seen the "Twitter Files" has been pretty much universally attacked from the left. The Files are condemned by everyone on the left from news outlets to late night hosts. I don't think I have seen even one prominent progressive defend this on 1st Amendment grounds.
It's amazing how far we have come from the ACLU defending actual Nazis.
They are not interested in free speech. They want controlled speech. This is what the disinformation term is all about. Anything against the party narrative should be removed.
Straight up communism shit.
They want speech that passes a utilitarian cost-benefit analysis. It is not the same as "controlled speech", but it is also not free speech either.
I see evidence that they want to control via declaring speech that they disagree with as disinformation.
But that's not true. There's volumes of conservative speech uttered every day and no one in any position of power has said "I want to ban all conservative speech".
They want to ban speech they think would lead to harm if acted upon. Like speech that tries to persuade people not to get a vaccine.
""They want to ban speech they think would lead to harm if acted upon. Like speech that tries to persuade people not to get a vaccine.""
How does Hunter Biden's laptop not being a Russian op cause harm? Other than the Bidens and perhaps the democrat party.
No, they want to ban everything that goes against their political party--see the covfefe about Hilary's emails or the Hunter Biden laptop or the Jan 6 videos.
However, they know the Overton window doesn't allow them to declare every utterance by a republican to be disinformation... yet. They're working up to it.
But what about speech that tells people to leave the bear in the trunk?
Did Chuck Schumer not call for Tucker Carlson to be taken off air for showing the J6 footage?
Good old Groomer Jeffy. Totally not a democrat shill.
You think it's right to ban speech that tries to convince people not to get vaccines?
Yes I do
Or “hate speech”.
At a punk show last week, I was speaking with an American University student who believed that hate speech was not protected by the 1st Amendment. I hope I'm dead by the time these fuckers eventually end up in charge.
I will raise you on that. I am going to end all medical care intended to prolong life and sign up for hospice. I am in terrible chronic pain and this insanity makes me want to leave this madhouse sooner rather than later.
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Wouldn’t it make more sense to inflict your suffering an a bunch of Marxists on the way out? Totally not suggesting you firebomb them or anything. But maybe doing a drive by and throwing puke filled balloons at democrat gatherings could be an option.
Anyone who identifies as punk and wants government controlled speech, should be beaten down hard enough that they spend the next week shitting out their own teeth.
I went to college at the University of Maryland college park in 2015 and I had numerous arguments with people over that. I also had to explain that it’s not against the 1st amendment to yell fire in a crowded theater. I blame affirmative action. A good portion of those people were just stupid and fairly low IQ.
"They want speech that passes a utilitarian cost-benefit analysis."
Yes. Speech that is a benefit to those with political power and that want to keep it. It's mostly a Democratic urge. Republicans can't be considered innocent of this, but it's much less prevalent.
Also a big difference is how willing these companies complied to the Democrats' orders.
"They want speech that passes a utilitarian cost-benefit analysis."
Which posits that there is an objective standard for determining such a cost-benefit analysis being touted by ideologues whose fellow travelers increasingly say that objectivity as a concept is white supremacist.
The Files are condemned by everyone on the left from news outlets to late night hosts. I don’t think I have seen even one prominent progressive defend this on 1st Amendment grounds.
That's another positive about Musk releasing the Twitter Files: it's caused progressive left to reveal themselves as the fascist shit heels most of us around here already knew them to be. It's probably too little too late, and most of those shitheads will get re-elected, but still.
Taibbi finally appears to be waking up to this long too obvious truth.
Too little too late.
It brings them pain. Which is good.
Taibbi has been a pretty notable progressive voice for the bulk of his writing/commentary career. There are some voices from the left paying attention and giving creedence to the "twitter files", but at this point most of them are the ones who have been declared by the Dem/Statist "establishment" to be either "Russian assets" (Taibbi, Tulsi Gabbard) or are somehow suddenly being called "alt right" (Joe Rogan and Russel Brand, and Jon Stewart is creeping toward that territory)
Yep, anyone calling Russel Brand a "righty" is a full on left loony.
A lot of de Croats are delusional. My aunt thinks that the the democrats aren’t authoritarian anymore.
Bill Maher. He’s the only progressive bold enough to address this bullshit.
He’s still utterly stupid in many profound ways, but he’s a staunch ally in matters of free speech and anti-woke.
He isn't an ally in any way [functionally]. He will still pull the lever for all anti free speech and ultra brandon woke Dems in any election.
His voting is true.
But I’ll take any voice against the woke zombies. One that isn’t seen as a right wing plant is a bonus.
I don’t need him to vote Republican, I need him to convince sane liberals that the left’s woke wing needs to be curb stomped.
The ACLU defense of Nazis was mostly about protecting Marxists. The Nazis they defended were never anything more than a clown show.
Now that Marxists are the establishment their true colors are being revealed.
The left believes in a diversity of their speech.
Representatives who had never heard of Substack, didn’t know of Matt Taibbi’s journalism history, and had no idea of the employment history or reporting by Bari Weiss, seemed to celebrate their own ignorance.
On a somewhat relate note, I posted this in another thread this morning, but might as well post it here too (sorry for repeating myself to anyone who saw it earlier):
Barri Weiss was a journalist for the New York Times before going independent, and although she may not have been one of the most prominent journalists there, I guaran-fucking-tee you that cunt knew who she is. She was just pretending to not know so as to imply that Weiss is an irrelevant nobody. I also strongly suspect that the whole “so you’re in this as a threesome” wasn’t some Freudian slip or accident. She intended to imply that Weiss had been spit roasted by Taibbi and Shellenberger.
I lived in the USVI for seven years and Plaskett is a fair example of the intellect and political savvy for the typical citizen there. The US should grant the USVI total independence ASAP. Let the fools live in a world where they don't get $200+ million/year from the US treasury.
Shellenberger and Taibbi both showed far more restraint than I would have. I'd love to see a witness in a congressional hearing call these fucking NPCs out for the snotty little cunts they are, just once.
-jcr
I forgot pig-ignorant.
-jcr
I agree. Taibbi especially did an excellent job. When the Virgin Islands delegate called him a "so-called journalist", I would responded "Much like you are a so-called representative, given you have no voting privileges, and are actually just a "delegate"".
I would have just asked if she'd ever had a real job.
-jcr
Absolutely. Channel Dee Snider, and then let them feel the blast.
Zappa
John Denver, too.
And then if they threaten to hold you in contempt of Congress say "Go right ahead, that's fair. I have nothing but contempt for every last one of you fascist cunts."
Well, they're Biden voters, so...
If I had the Wasserbeast talking to me the way Tiabbi did, I would have verbally eviscerated her. Which would be difficult. She’s not very bright. Almost Tony levels of stupidity.
Jordan cut in and provided just such an example: the White House flagging a tweet from Robert Kennedy Jr. about vaccines for deletion. Goldman troublingly suggested—without actually reading the tweet in question—that perhaps it wasn't lawful.
Whoa, writing. It wasn't lawful. What's the 'it' here in this sentence? That Kennedy's TWEET wasn't lawful, or did Goldman dither and admit that the government attempting to censor the speech wasn't lawful? The sentence clumsily suggests that it was the tweet that wasn't lawful which would make sense. But clarity here is extremely important when dealing with this *checks note* late-breaking info.
Goldman suggested that maybe Kennedy's tweet wasn't lawful and a government official was right to request it be removed. The tweet itself was in regards to the possibility that the vaccine led to someone's death.
Goldman's attitude was representative of the Democrat's in general at the hearing. They glorified in their own ignorance and position that the government had the right to decide what was true information and what was "unlawful" speech.
Everyone needs to be voted out.
I don't think voting works anymore
NEW Elections! now fortified with New-Speak and Fascism.
There are effective alternatives to elections and courts. The democrats better pray Americans aren’t pushed in that direction.
I agree
Their attack were 100% credentialism / ad hominem. They couldn't have shown their asses more. Including the one confused as to what substack is as 'I guess some web page' lmao. They will clip Taibbi's responses as he frequently has a tremble in his voice (listen to any interview, even friendly ones) and it gets worse when he's amped up. So to an outside it may look like they have him on his heels.
This credentialism crap is what got a huge chunk of the country following all of Fauci's guidance. Anything he said was supposedly passed down from god, and any detractor was written off as a crank or conspiracy theorist. Again, these people are the modern church. Everything the church sanctions is gods truth, any contrary opinion is heresy. Simple as that.
Keep note of this pattern. They will continue to try and use it. Its why Fauci needs to swing to make an example.
Correct.
But notice what Reason's doing here- little to nothing about the Twitter files until they get the chance to glorify journalists, to make the story about (Biden voting) hero journalists.
This article is deflection.
This. Lately its been deflection at best. Mostly theyve been ignoring the elephants in the room.
I posted a week ago that progressives remind me of medieval nobles trying to maintain the three estates system of feudalism after the black death (see the causes of the English Peasants Revolt under Richard the IInd and similar uprisings around the same time on the Continent). This was an organic thought I came to after reading British Medieval Historian Dan Jones' book 'Summer of Blood'. Two days later I read an op-ed by another Medieval Historian who states he has argued that the modern progressives are actually identical to Medieval nobilities futile attempts to turn back the clock and keep their peasants in line during the late Medieval, early Renaissance period. He also used the three estates model as an example. I am just finishing another Dan Jones' book that surveys the history of the Medieval period, and he is discussing the roots of the Protestant Reformation at the end of the period, and the selling of indulgences. Got me thinking of white guilt and carbon credits. Throw in original sin, purgatory and papal infallibility and all can be paralleled to progressive programs of today. I suppose we can also look to the decline of the Western Roman Empire, and the fact that bread and circuses only work for so long before people become too pissed off and start picking up hayforks and opening the gates to the Vandals and Goths.
Long time no see, soldiermedic.
"the selling of indulgences. Got me thinking of white guilt and carbon credits. Throw in original sin, purgatory and papal infallibility and all can be paralleled to progressive programs of today."
That's an apt description of Wokianity. It really is works-righteousness Christianity but with redemption, salvation and forgiveness removed.
Calvinism. Salvation is available only to the elect.
Calling & Hobbesian would be better. And I also strongly believe the world would be a better place if Marxism were based off the writings of Groucho instead of Karl.
"the fact that bread and circuses only work for so long before people become too pissed off and start picking up hayforks "
A combination of events is leading us here. Specifically, the massive shift of depression/mental health issues among young people, and the increasing gap in female/male college and earnings. And also the very weird asexual culture thats come about.
Not that all of the above (or other unmentioned things) will all be responsible, but some of the most common ingredients toward uprisings are poor, unhappy men with a lot of time on their hands. They can only consume the big-tech opium of reddit, netflix, and uber eats so long before that gets old.
This is actually somewhat amusing, because Dan Jones is a total shitlib who had to bend over backwards when talking about the Islamic conquests to not make them seem all that bad. And I say this as someone who owns his books on the Plantagenets and Wars of the Roses, and found them to be interesting popular history.
Been hitting a bunch of older historians on audible. The Charles Oman history of the Dark Ages he spends an entire chapter shitting on Islam. “It’s a good religion to die by but an awful religion to live by” type stuff. It was kind of…wow…but oddly refreshing compared to the how far the pendulum has swung since. When history shows on the Crusades use the term “othering” with a straight face. And only apply it to the Frankish Christians…
Of course you can go back to 1776 and Gibbons in decline and fall, stopping everything to go on some hilarious tirades against Christian monks, so there’s a history to that sort of thing in history that has mostly been lost. Unless you’re bitching about how racist Columbus was.
Oops
Which all ties back to Cicero's three natural forms of govermment.
The left Hegelians, including all Marxists and all progressives have always represented a reversion to an aristocracy of sorts. Most unfortunately, due to their very source it is one not bound by any higher sense of order or first principle beyond the will to power.
As such they are the very antithesis of the sort of people that the founders of our republic envisioned as suitable leaders. Moreso they are the kind we were warned against.
"Frustratingly, the Democrats who participated in the hearing on Thursday could not have cared less about the federal government's role in promoting social media censorship."
Au contraire. The (D) reps were directed to act this way by the DNC and other vested powers, who care very deeply about the government's role in censorship--and any threat to that power.
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Read this thread and then try to convince me that Trump was the greatest threat to our nation we have ever seen.
The democrats are destroying our nation and the Constitutional principles upon which it was founded.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1633830002742657027.html
As an example : "Their taxpayer-backed conclusions: the state should have total access to data to make searching speech easier, speech offenders should be put in a “holding area," and government should probably restrict disinformation, “even if it means losing some freedom.”
My understanding from this morning's mood profile:
This is all well and good because it merely amounts to *checks comments* "Peer Pressure".
You know who else put troublesome people in a "holding area"?
Is that another name for room 101?
I think he means the Group W bench.
NHL Referees?
Prison wardens?
ICE?
Oh please, dipshit
At least the undesirables will be concentrated for easier disposal.
Australia's PM?
speech offenders should be put in a “holding area,” and government should probably restrict disinformation, “even if it means losing some freedom.”
Over under on when "holding area" becomes an actual physical holding area (like a camp where those guilty of thoughtcrime can be "concentrated" or "re-educated")?
“ I Don’t like the sound of these ‘ere ‘Boncentration Bamps’…”
And in Washington state and Minnesota they actually debating opening bias tracking centers to monitor instances of bias that "may be legal and protected" but make people feel uncomfortable. Even the ACLU has spoke out against the Minnesota bill as going overboard.
The neocons and soft-Rs keep harboring the delusion and vain hope that this country isn't headed for a split of some kind, even though it's increasingly obvious by the day that the population's differences are just too broad of a chasm to overcome. They lament the inability to "compromise" while the left does this kind of shit that literally imparts thoughtcrime into law and denigrate journalists who don't do anything except open back-channel communications between the government and global megacorps to the public. What masochist would want to actually compromise with these people?
The left is full psychotic totalitarian.
It is impossible to coexist peacefully with psychotic totalitarians.
You can only separate, inflict violence upon them, or submit to them inflicting violence upon you.
We really have to stop pretending something else is possible. It's not. These are the only 3 options for the future.
We don’t need a split. We need to obliterate the left, and wipe out all the Marxist and neo con/left bullshit.
I don’t favor their chances if things go hot.
Did Reason write about those like they did for that one bill in Florida?
Take 2
https://twitter.com/FromKulak/status/1633890990288191510?t=m1DYUk6nZhC-VBXqgsrbDw&s=19
The Law that made Social Justice and killed the constitution
1/
America now has two Constitutions
The one you all know comes out of the revolution of 1776 and was adopted in 1789
The other, which has now supplanted all the rights of the old constitution… is from the 60s
2/
America is a country that guarantees free speech… yet everywhere every institution seeks to censor you.
America guarantees private property…yet everywhere regulators tell you what you can do in your own home or business.
This is not a coincidence.
3/
Communists Advocate: “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”
Sounds nice, like how things work amongst very trusting family or friends
But the wise or knowledgeable will ask the obvious question: What about the third group?
4/
When you make the communist principle a governing principle, the most important group is not those with ability, or those with need… It is those who DECIDE who has ability and who has need.
And the communist Commissariat claim that total power for themselves.
5/
And every aspect of why communism is horrifying is immediately understandable as soon as you understand this.
The Commissariat can decide what is ability, what need, and thus can take everything.
When “property is theft”, all things are the property of the bureaucrats.
6/
In 1964 America adopted an equivalent governing principle:
“Anti-Discrimination”
Sounds nice… No one likes discriminatory behaviour amongst their friends or family…
But the most important group isn’t who has or is subject to prejudice, its who decides and enforces.
7/
The ’64 civil rights act and follow on anti-discrimination law, via logical necessity, created a class of bureaucrats, lawyers, advocates, and administrators who get paid to debate and decide whether your speech and personal conduct constitutes discrimination.
8/
If you are at school, work, volunteering, or at all interacting with the institutions of modern life, administrators get to decide if your basic speech and associations are discriminations, and legally punish those institutions if they do not expel or discipline you for it
9/
Your basic constitutional freedoms of speech, association, property, privacy, and conscience are completely surrendered in every institution or association you might interact in if they at all touch the vague possibility of “Discrimination”
10/
Is it at all surprising that this group, with the power to completely control or punish anyone and everything to do with “Discrimination”, has chosen to define absolutely everything as discrimination?
11/
Social justice is NOT an ideology, it is NOT a bizarre madness of college graduates.
Social Justice is the logical consequence of 60 years of suspending basic US constitutional freedoms and elevating a system of social control in its place.
It is Commissars seeking power
12/
You will never have freedom of speech or association as long as the ’64 civil rights act or “Anti-Descrimination” law stands.
You will never be free of social justice as long as the laws which allow social justice to rule are in place.
13/
And instead of attacking the root of the problem. The Source of every HR department and university administrator’s power…
Instead of fighting to restore the constitution…
“Conservative” politicians focus on bullshit fist shaking and do nothing symbolic statements.
14/
But boomer conservatives will not oppose the 64 civil rights act, nor oppose university funded activism, nor enforce even existing indecent exposure laws…
Because they believe in the authority of Antidiscrimination law.
15/
Boomer Conservatives believe in the moral authority of people who hate them to judge their thoughts and associations more than they believe in the constitution or what the founding generations would have considered basic human freedom and property rights.
16/
This is a totalitarian system. Already judges are making descisions against institutions, and individuals not for any active descrimination, but for their failure to fully embrace the ideology
Being “Colorblind” or an insufficient “ally” can cost you millions in court
17/
What is to be done?
If social Justice is to be defeated If our basic freedoms of speech, conscious, and association are to survive We must root out all antidiscrimination law.
We must repeal the 64 civil rights act and remove the statues of MLK who got it passed
18/
And most importantly we must destroy the diversity and inclusion commissariat, down to the employment lawyers and HR reps
Every single one needs to be removed from power with their pensions confiscated
These are the class enemies of liberty. Treat them as such
[Links]
Another word for "discrimination" is "choose".
Once you lose your ability to choose, you lose almost all of your freedom.
Along with the CRA, the fourteenth amendment must be repealed.
It brought the concept of "equality" into our Constitution, which has been distorted into "equity", AKA the equal outcome of the lowest common denominator.
Equality under the law has way more precedent and importance than one amendment in the constitution. I think a good hard SCOTUS smack down of ‘equity’ as a determinative definition would be (relatively) easier and more realistic solution. (I know, that’ll be the day).
Failing that, I’d be okay with the rough stop gap of actually applying the CSA to fight the discrimination caused by “equity”.
The Fourteenth Amendment binds the government to treat people equally--which it absolutely should, and must. The government doesn't get to discriminate.
Wow....never heard such truth.
It's kinda funny that Taibbi somehow managed to misrepresent that last quote when he "summarized" it.
I haven't read the whole Aspen report, but there's a screenshot of it in Taibbi's tweet (@16). Here's what it actually said:
"Public sentiment underscores the disappointment and frustration with tech companies' failure in this area, with roughly half of U.S. adults indicating that the government should take steps to restrict false information, even if it means losing some freedom to access and publish content."
That read to me like an account of a polling question and its results. [Indeed, it was: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/08/18/more-americans-now-say-government-should-take-steps-to-restrict-false-information-online-than-in-2018/%5D
And in any case, it does not support Taibbi's allegation that this was one of the Aspen group's conclusions. In fact it was offered in a section of the report called, "Key insights and context", not in any of the reports numerous "recomendations" sections. If that's what U.S. adults think, that's what U.S. adults think.
Oh, Matt...
I haven’t read the whole Aspen report...
Certainly explains your handwaving.
Leftists don’t lie to read. They prefer pablum puked into their mouths by their Marxist momma birds.
"...And in any case, it does not support Taibbi’s allegation that this was one of the Aspen group’s conclusions. In fact it was offered in a section of the report called, “Key insights and context”, not in any of the reports numerous “recomendations” sections. If that’s what U.S. adults think, that’s what U.S. adults think..."
How many distinctions absent differences can you cram in a paragraph?
Is arm-waving paying about M/W where you live?
I haven’t read the whole Aspen report
Then shut the fuck up until you do, shitlib.
This is what he does. He selectively presents true statements. He can't be accused of making stuff up, because what he does present is truthful. But he omits important context, so he lies by omission. His honest defenders know this, but don't care because he pushes the same narrative that they want. HIs dishonest defenders pretends that he is the most honest journalist evah.
On the contrary, Taibbi presents a thorough investigation on how government officials colluded with companies to censor opposing voices. He's not lying in this case.
Seems like you haven't read the Aspen report as well. Get at it.
Wouldn't have been surprised if Austin had their own Maxine Waters wannabe, but apparently Garcia represents Houston.
-jjcr
Good lord, what is it with Houston? First Sheila Jackson Lee and now this stupid bint?
But is she a moistened bint?
It is disappointing that congressional Democrats are taking little interest in the weaponization of the federal government against Americans' speech rights.
If you're disappointed, you're expecting way too much. The Dems have been pushing the weaponization of the federal government and the suppression of individual rights since taking power. I mean, I'll concede that the GOP is godawful. But, compared to the Democrats, they're a bunch of regular Lysander Spooners. That's what a lot of us have been trying to tell you for the last couple of years. At a certain point, it's no longer Team Red versus Team Blue. When one team is all-in on the weaponization of the state as a means of enforcing political conformity, it doesn't really matter if you agree with the other team or if you find the other team unfashionable.
When one team is all-in on the weaponization of the state as a means of enforcing political conformity
psst: that's both teams
Not per yesterday's hearing.
Robby: Well, you can't even both sides that.
Chemjeff: Hold my beer.
No, not per yesterday's hearing. But there are plenty of ways that Team Red is awful in wanting to weaponize the state to force political conformity. Examples off the top of my head: abortion, trans issues, law enforcement issues, etc.
Got any examples that contradict the Constitution? Ideas finding widespread support?
"Examples off the top of my head: abortion, trans issues, law enforcement issues, etc."
Killing babies, castrating minors and not charging looters and arsonists. Those are quite the hills to die on, Jeff.
Everything you stand for is utterly evil. You would have made a fantastic priest for Moloch or Tlaloc.
Americans just aren’t free without democrat hegemony, murdered infants, and groomed/mutilated children.
Lol, not even close.
Gee, I remember some DNC hacks here at Reason whining about "private companies" and how all of this was perfectly fine. Wonder what happened to them?
As usual, they're grabbing a flag and rushing to the front of the parade. If you skip the articles here and just read the comments, you'll be about two years ahead.
# truth
Rep. Colin Allred (D–Texas) similarly implied that there might be justification for censorship in the name of preventing hate speech.
"Feeling the power in such a statement, he then went on to imply there might be justification for imprisonment and torture in the name of furthering love speech."
Some people are into that...
Disappointing, perhaps, but not surprising. Or at least it shouldn't be to anyone who's been paying attention.
They are only disappointed Elon Musk bought Twitter and exposed it.
Considering she's only a delegate and not a full member of Congress, one could accurately describe her as a "so-called member of Congress." Perhaps she should move out of her glass house before casting any more stones.
It wasn't "bordering on furtive support," it was full blown, 100% support. All of those motherfuckers revealed themselves to be full blown fascists yesterday. They're not even bothering to hide it anymore. The masks are off, thrown in the trashcan and lit on fire.
Two things:
1. Many on the left tend to view speech in utilitarian terms - speech should only be legal if it passes a cost-benefit analysis. So they might argue that "hate speech" clearly fails this test because it serves no useful purpose and (to some) actually harms its targets, therefore it should be banned. In this same light, "misinformation" also fails this same test because its purpose is to deceive and misdirect the targets, leading them to make choices based on false or faulty information. So from this rationale it is understandable why they might want the government to ban "misinformation". They are wrong, the government shouldn't be banning speech merely because it is false, but one can see their rationale for doing so.
2. Based on this, we do need to have a serious conversation about what to do about 'misinformation' online and in social media, and how that affects collective decision-making in terms of elections and in the marketplace. We see what the left wants to do about it and it's not terribly pretty. What is the alternative? If the offered alternative is "do nothing" then one has to grapple with the potential liability, both legal and moral, with speech that is deceptive and potentially harmful if one were to act upon it. The example I gave earlier was a hypothetical example of someone posting online a recipe for "cyanide cookies for children". Even if we all agree that the government should do nothing about this, what should a responsible platform owner do?
The alternative is to confront speech you believe is in error with an argument for what you believe is true.
Yeah, but that's hard and requires, like, thinking and stuff. Much easier to just have the State to shut up people you hate for you.
That is great in an ideal environment. The problem is that social media doesn't readily permit that to occur in any effective manner. False/misleading speech that is sensationalized and emotion-provoking tends to have far greater reach than the dry, boring speech that rebuts it.
For example, how many people still believe that Trump was praising Nazis with his "fine people on both sides" statement? Even though the full transcript and context has been out for years now. Why hasn't the correct version replaced the faulty version by now?
So you believe such speech should be controlled, that such speech should not be uttered? That opinions should not be given? You're radical alright, Jeffy, a radical authoritarian.
People believe that because they hate Trump. It's all selective outrage meant for him. Remember kids in cages? Some people were calling them concentration camps so they could claim he's being Hitler. Kids are still in those facilities but the rage is gone. The Rage is gone because Trump isn't president. The facilities were not the issue after all.
""Why hasn’t the correct version replaced the faulty version by now?""
The version where? If you mean in their heads, that's not gonna happen.
People believe that because they hate Trump.
Some do, yes.
Some do, however, not because they especially hate Trump, but because they were only ever exposed to the Trump-supports-Nazis story, since that one was far more widely circulated than the rebuttal. That's part of the problem here.
So imagine you have a situation where the false but sensationalistic stories get so widely circulated, compared to the truthful but boring rebuttals, that the false stories are the only ones that are believed by the majority of people. What does that mean for our collective ability to make meaningful decisions on election day? Potentially, it means that as far as the voting public is concerned, reality is *defined* by misleading memes on Facebook. That's not a world I particularly want to live in. Do you?
And it doesn't mean that the government must get involved. But it does mean that just railing against the government won't solve the problem.
You fear misleading memes on face book? I laugh at them.
""What does that mean for our collective ability to make meaningful decisions on election day? ""
If one is not smart enough to navigate the wacky world of other people's opinions on social media and partisan media talent on news shows, that is their problem. And it would say much.
I do not think speech in our society should be limited by the lowest common denominator.
If one is not smart enough to navigate the wacky world of other people’s opinions on social media and partisan media talent on news shows, that is their problem.
Problem is, they vote, and then it becomes OUR problem.
Well that makes censorship all better.
""What does that mean for our collective ability to make meaningful decisions on election day?""
Why would a radical individualist care about the collective?
Why would a radical individualist care about all of the other individuals? Is that what you are asking?
Why would an individualist sacrifice their rights for the good of the many? How would that be different than being a collectivist?
So imagine you have a situation where the false but sensationalistic stories get so widely circulated, compared to the truthful but boring rebuttals, that the false stories are the only ones that are believed by the majority of people.
You just described what the "mainstream" media does, on a constant basis, and its effect on those in the leftist bubble.
^THIS!!!^
The answer is more speech.
The lie about Trump took root because of this coordinated censorship, not in spite of it. Shadow bans were already in place. The press was already in line.
Remember, the DNC ran a rigged primary that year. They got caught and everyone acknowledged it. Didn't do anything about it. But acknowledged it.
They also interfered in the republican primary to help get Trump nominated. The exact same emails that revealed the Democrats rigging their own primary revealed this.
This is why Trump was featured several times a week on NBC's Today.
But we know that freedom of censorship, more speech works.
When I moved to North Carolina, there was a shootout between the KKK and some Nazi group at a Communist Workers Party rally. (Nobody from North Carolina involved, naturally. In 35 years that hasn't changed). When I moved to Atlanta the KKK would march to the courthouse every year.
We defeated those idiots with more speech. In fact, the best tactic was to put them on and let them speak. They were so god-awful that they just evaporated over a decade or so.
It worked when Farakahn rallied his racist hate group. A few years of good speech countering the bad, and those idiots are mostly back in the box.
Contrary to what you suggest, the censorship regime is actually instrumental in bringing racial animus back into society. Which is, of course, exactly the point.
The answer is more speech.
It CAN be. But that strategy doesn't always work.
Look, evidence for this can be found right here on this comment board. Several people have decided to mute me because they gave up on the "more speech" strategy with me. They rightfully concluded that I was never going to subscribe to their right-wing version of libertarianism and instead of trying to persuade me further, they just "censored" me from their view. And I have done the same with several commenters here - try as I may, no amount of words that I write here will ever persuade Jesse to stop being a jerk, so I just mute him now.
The lie about Trump took root because of this coordinated censorship, not in spite of it.
Please provide any sort of proof whatsoever that anyone was censored or banned anywhere on social media for trying to disprove the Trump-supports-Nazis story after Charlottesville.
I will do you one better. You got to see it in real time.
In the debate, Chris Wallace asked him to denounce nazis and racists which he promptly did. Wallace immediately asked why he refused to denounce them.
Like Twitter only in real time.
Why are you even bothering with the stupid "show me proof" nonsense. Taibbi just documented an entire conspiracy of government, industry and private private nonprofits that controls what may be said. Not "crazy people conspiracy", but an actual meeting of the minds of a large group of people to accomplish a goal. He documents how they communicate, with examples. He has their own internal messages that prove it.
If that isn't enough to get you to admit that you are on the wrong team, nothing will.
We were all here for the shadow bans. Conservative voices on YouTube were already using code words to avoid the ban hammer. Pretending that their fears were unjustified then in light of what we know now is silly.
Here was the entire exchange that you are referring to. You did a very poor job of summarizing it.
https://www.debates.org/voter-education/debate-transcripts/september-29-2020-debate-transcript/
Trump said he's "willing to do it" then he never did it, and tried to change the subject to Antifa.
So you are just plain wrong on this score. Please, find the actual truth instead of just repeating paranoid fantasies.
Maybe it was a McMartin memory?
This is what Cyto does all the time. He is truly a paranoid lunatic. Everything bad that happens is the result of some conspiracy - not just any conspiracy though, but a LEFT-WING conspiracy. Apparently right-wingers are incapable of having conspiracies. Like the Speaker of the House colluding with the largest cable news company on the planet to selectively present propaganda helpful to the party's cause. Or the head of a major social media company selectively leaking internal documents to favored reporters so as to push a narrative. Those aren't 'conspiracies'. The only conspiracies happen when someone who happened to vote for Joe Biden winds up working for Google. Then it's TOTAL DNC CAPTURE OF ALL OF SILICON VALLEY.
I love that he acts like other people didn’t watch the show trials.
It’s 96%+ the left pushing this shit. There is no equivalence. Many of these conspiracies aren’t a theory. Journolist comes to mind.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/02/trump-and-white-supremacy-he-did-condemn-and-has-repeatedly-column/5883336002/
Even USA Today said it was stupid to keep harping on this issue.
Personally I would have laughed if he had said “Chris, I’ve condemned them many times. Many times. They’re horrible people. But you know what, I’d like to hear Mr. Biden condemn his long time senate friend and KKK Grand Wizard, Robert Byrd.”
Here’s a compilation of Trump denouncing racists…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGrHF-su9v8
Time magazine even wrote an article bragging about it
Here is the cite: https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
"It CAN be. But that strategy doesn’t always work."
So what?
No system is 100% effective. Perfect is the enemy of good.
This phenomenon has been known for a very long time (lies travel around the world before truth puts its boots on).
The founding fathers obviously overlooked this and the first amendment should be changed.
Reach, yes.
Influence, no.
Who cares how many people read stupid things? What matters is how many believe them - and the research is strong that we don't. Or at least that reading social media doesn't cause us to believe those stupid things.
"Who cares how many people read stupid things?..."
When you're a lying lefty ignoramus like jeff, you assume others are equally as fucking abysmally stupid.
Which is the reason we have A1 to protect us.
""2. Based on this, we do need to have a serious conversation about what to do about ‘misinformation’ online and in social media, and how that affects collective decision-making in terms of elections and in the marketplace.""
Step 1: Quit pretending people's opinions are information.
But they are 'information'. Whether or not the information constitutes *reliable* information is a different matter.
This is the dumbest of canards. Up until 2015 everyone left of Goebbels knew that "the answer to bad speech is more speech".
Stop pretending that this is an issue. Only the totalitarians pretend that this is an issue.
We defeated the KKK with more speech. The ACLU fought to keep it that way. And we won. And they had actual power at one time.
No, we do not need to have a conversation about how much censorship we need. Every single American citizen knew the answer to that before 2015. It is at the very foundation of our republic.
Repeat after me... The answer to bad speech is more speech.
Repeat until it becomes rote. This is the only answer. It has been thus since Thomas Paine was publishing pamphlets.
It's the only valid answer for bad speech; more speech. Anything else should be considered unacceptable under any and all circumstances. If some here, like Jeffy, try to make excuses otherwise, then they should check their libertarian card at the door. They're nothing more than intolerant totalitarian authoritarians.
Reminder. Jeff thinks making it illegal to send child porn to others is censorship.
Up until 2015 everyone left of Goebbels knew that “the answer to bad speech is more speech”.
But that's not true. Your attention span is very short. Have you heard of campaign finance law? All the laws that restrict political donations to candidates are essentially expressions of this same utilitarian cost-benefit analysis, with the idea being that "excessive" donations to a candidate is a type of speech that fails this cost-benefit analysis because it has an "appearance of corruption".
How about restrictions on speech near polling places on election day? Those are based on the same utilitarian premise - permitting unlimited speech near polling places while people are trying to vote does more harm than good, in this analysis. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm saying that this utilitarian idea of speech having to pass this cost/benefit analysis before being designated as "free speech" is not a new idea, it is a very old idea actually, and the idea that certain speech is so useless and potentially harmful that should simply be banned has also been around for a long time. Again I am not saying I agree with it, I am simply stating it as it exists.
So if you want to stake out the position that there should be zero censorship by anyone anywhere at any time, even by private individuals on private property, then THAT would be a truly radical proposition that has never before existed. Is that your position?
I think you meant to say ‘to the right of Goebbels’.
Sure, you could call it information in a sense. Even non-verbal acts could be called information. However, no one is sourcing social media as a source for a fact in real work. It's generally people posting memes which represent their opinions. Opinions should not be censored at all.
However, no one is sourcing social media as a source for a fact in real work.
It doesn't need to be sourced "in real work" to be considered reliable. It just needs to be believable.
Believable is not the criteria for sourcing facts.
Not in a court of law, no. But in the court of public opinion? You bet it does.
Also, who decides what is reliable? This basically boils down to truth and lies where people with political purposes deciding on what truth is. All lies should be ridiculed. A lie being not what the party decided.
Anything contra to the party will be treated as heresy. This is what happened regarding Hunter's laptop and COVID leak theory.
Look I am not arguing that there should be some official arbiter of truth. Such a thing cannot exist in any real form without being distorted to serve those in power.
I AM saying, that there is a real problem with social media being awash in misinformation and lies, that if/when they are acted upon via voting, leads to the situation where reality is defined not by facts, but by the most viral memes on Facebook.
So you’ve answered your own question, there is nothing that can be done. No arbiter of what is right and wrong, no laws limiting speech, no government intrusion into what people are allowed to say.
At some point, we as a society have to accept that there is some bad that goes along with our constitutional good. We seem to have forgotten that. Because of that, not all “problems” have solutions or require governmental measures to address.
This whole canard anymore about malinfomration, disinformation, and misinformation is just the same ages-old play to limit speech that one doesn’t like. Just because they dress it up with new words and claim new forms of doom if not addressed, doesn’t take away from it being censorship to achieve biased desires.
At the end of the day, there is no “answer” to “bad” information online other than providing “good” information in response with the understanding that thanks to freedom, people are free to believe false, dumb, ridiculous, and laughable things. That’s not a problem that needs to be fixed. It’s a reality of freedom that needs to be understood.
""Whether or not the information constitutes *reliable* information is a different matter.""'
No where does it say people's opinions must be reliable. Only an authoritarian would believe that people opinions must comply with a narrative. If I repost a meme saying Hillary worships the devil, that my opinion. It's not something that should be removed because of feelings after a meeting with the government.
No where does it say people’s opinions must be reliable.
You're right.
If I repost a meme saying Hillary worships the devil, that my opinion. It’s not something that should be removed because of feelings after a meeting with the government.
First, I think we both agree that the government shouldn't be involved in this matter at all.
But if you repost a meme saying Hillary worships the devil, should the site owner have the liberty to remove that meme at his/her discretion, for whatever reason?
And, to be a little more serious, suppose you post a recipe for "cyanide cookies for children". What do you think - can the site owner legitimately take that recipe down?
""First, I think we both agree that the government shouldn’t be involved in this matter at all.""
But that's exactly what's been going on. If you are meeting weekly with the government, then the government is involved. This is the problem most of us have here. It's not what Twitter wants to do. Is the fact they are being feed shit by the government either during weekly meetings or using government funded organization.
But look, why was this even an issue in the first place? It's not like the government out of the blue went to the social media companies and said "we will now force you to comply with the government narrative". This was all a reactionary to deal with the problem of misinformation and lies being so pervasive on social media to the extent that it distorts people's decision-making. The government shouldn't have gotten involved, but they did get involved, because they get involved in everything. But it was a reaction to a problem, not the source of the problem itself.
This is stupidly wrong. The government started marginalizing dissent almost immediately. Had they instead operated in a transparent and ethical manner people could have trusted the output. It was specifically the knowledge we knew Fauci et al were lying that allowed misinformation to thrive.
I would think a radical individualist's opinion would be fuck you I can say what I want.
That would be a radical asshole's opinion.
So...
Did you look in a mirror, Jeffy, when you wrote that?
If you are not allowed to express your individualism, how are you an individualist?
Because Jeffy is a radical asshole.
I didn't say you weren't allowed to express your individualism.
But you aren't entitled to express your individualism on my property at my expense. That is MY individualism in action.
Individualism is not "I get to be an asshole and you all have no choice but to sit there and take it". Individualism is mutual respect for everyone *as individuals*. Being a jerk to everyone around you is fundamentally a lack of respect for them. Hope that clarifies things.
Individualism isn’t the government “suggesting” you kick them off your property for stating an opinion the government doesn’t like.
You should probably change your name…
A more apt handle might be Typical Collectivist. That was a lot of words to say "WE need to control what Individuals say".
Hate speech isn't free speech
Totes not a leftist.
2. Based on this, we do need to have a serious conversation about what to do about ‘misinformation’ online
We do indeed. There's a one Mr. Fauci and Rochelle Walensky who need to answer for three years of misinformation that probably killed a LOT of people.
No probably about it. The data is in. We saw the chart of "excess deaths" out of Europe yesterday.
Remember that group of physicians who had an alternative to the lockdowns? Remember how they published a paper on the topic?
You know, the one that got you banned from YouTube or Twitter or Facebook for even mentioning the name? (And after a minute, even mentioning it to criticize it would get you suspended).
Well, Sweden followed that plan. And they have *by far* the lowest excess mortality since the start of the pandemic.
Their insistence that they knew best and none shall question their wisdom killed millions, just as surely as Cuomo sending COVID patients into nursing homes killed thousands!
Specifically, what is the misinformation you are referring to?
An oldie but a goodie: “HIV can be spread on public toilets.”
Or how about “don’t introduce your kids to peanuts.”
Or maybe “Children need to get this experimental (and totes completely safe and effective) vaccine for a disease that barely affects them.”
So they might argue that “hate speech” clearly fails this test because it serves no useful purpose and (to some) actually harms its targets, therefore it should be banned.
Once we agree on this premise, we deem anything we disagree with as hate speech.
The shit is chess, not checkers.
The problem isn't misinformation, the problem is who gets to decide what's considered "misinformation". Because their track record in the past 3 years is not so great.
But what if there were bears in trunks? What should the government do then, huh?
iIn this same light, “misinformation” also fails this same test because its purpose is to deceive and misdirect the targets, leading them to make choices based on false or faulty information. So from this rationale it is understandable why they might want the government to ban “misinformation”.
This is a lie. In fact the censor's own words prove they include true statements in their definition of misinformation if it leads people to political positions the censors oppose. Jeffey is lying to protect his allies as best he can by minimizing their actions.
Yes, true statements devoid of context that paint a misleading picture. That is called 'lying by omission'.
Basically LyingJeffy is defending the idea that people are too stupid to look at actual evidence or statements and make up their own minds, they need the government to protect them and decide for them. And he says he's more libertarian than the rest of us who feel the government should fuck off on this. And he's certainly not a leftist, sarc will be a long shortly to defend him.
Oh fuck you. Talk about misinformation. I didn't say government should be involved at all. I'm simply pointing out what happens on a daily basis - people posting true but misleading information to give a false impression. This is a real problem.
people posting true but misleading information to give a false impression. This is a real problem.
The reveal is that those primarily engaged in this tactic are on the left, including Jeffey. But he never cares about that does he? Then he balances that out by accusing the right of doing this even when they are not.
Yeah, they're usually CNN, NYT etc. No, fuck you you fucking Nazi authoritarian asshole. Anyone who says we need to have a conversation about how to deal with misinformation, malinformation etc and the government has a roll is a fucking authoritarian bootlicker and should just fucking move to Venezuela where they can see how that actually fucking works. Me, I'll stay with Congress (and by extension the executive branch since they aren't supposed to rule by fiat, even if they get away with it) shall make no law abridging the right to free speech. That is their only fucking roll. Period, discussion fucking over. Don't like it, get 3/4 of Congress to agree and 2/3rds of the state to ratify it, and bring body bags. So, fuck off.
There is no just explaining anything. You have done nothing but defend this and say we need a fucking discussion. We had one, it was from 1775-1783. Don't like it, you can change the Constitution or leave. Period. No more discussion fucking needed. The government has zero fucking roll in correcting or policing information, end of the fucking story.
Also, if lying by omission is your worry, the best thing isn't to hide the information. It's to provide the full fucking context. No censorship needed. No fucking flagging by government agencies needed.
Fuck off you regressive motherfucking authoritarian asshat. You've shown everyone your fucking true colors even "just explaining". What a fucking dodge and joke you are. There is not one fucking libertarian bone in your body. Oh free sex and marijuana, that's not fucking libertarianism, true libertarianism is based on humanism and enlightenment principles of innate rights and free speech is the top of that fucking list, and there is no fucking compromise. Period. If you say anything different don't ever claim to be anything but an authoritarian bootlicker. Oh you don't like cops, but have no problem with government deciding what is the truth.
Fucking what a fucking joke. I'm not mad. I'm fucking amused at all the times you have claimed to be libertarian and then your entire thread on here. No, just no. Stop. At least Tony has the honesty to admit what he is. Fuck. See I can use the F word to, ain't I fucking edgy. You're pissed because everyone sees through your fucking lies because you've revealed exactly what you are. Run along now and let the adults speak because it's obvious you aren't equipped intellectually for this conversation. Good bye. What a moron.
Oh look, soldiermedic is drunk again.
Anyone who says we need to have a conversation about how to deal with misinformation, malinformation etc.
and the government has a roleThere, fixed it for you (drunk misspellings and all). I have stated all along that the government shouldn't have a role. That doesn't mean misinformation isn't a problem.
Do you people really think that if government withered away to the Libertopia that we want it to be, that all of our social problems would vanish with it? Do you *really* think that government is the source of ALL of our problems? If so you truly are an idiot.
To me libertarianism has never meant "fuck you I've got mine and I don't give a shit about anyone except me and mine". That is not libertarianism, that is narcissism. Libertarianism is respecting not only the liberty, but the dignity and self-worth of every single human being. That is what I believe with my entire being. That is why I'm accused of being a bleeding-heart leftist around here, because I *don't* condemn swaths of people as being irredeemably horrible, as you all do with anyone to the left of Ted Cruz.
Just admit it, you are not a libertarian, you are just a self-centered, self-absorbed narcissistic asshole who doesn't give a shit, along with most everyone else here.
true libertarianism is based on humanism and enlightenment principles of innate rights and free speech is the top of that fucking list, and there is no fucking compromise. Period.
I agree with this. That doesn't mean that a regime of unfettered free speech won't have its unintended negative consequences. Adults recognize this. Maybe you can join us in the conversation some day.
Libertarianism to you is a mask to better deliver leftism to places like this.
He’s just sick of your disingenuous bullshit. We all are.
That is called ‘lying by omission’.
For example, by Jeffey's definition this statement is a lie. Jeffey tries to insinuate this characterization is representative of what leftists like himself want censored. But in reality the statements they wanted censored were not lies by omission or misleading in any way. They were simply factual statements which conflicted with the left's preferred, but unsupportable, conclusion, including that the virus could not have come from a lab leak.
blah blah blah. everything you write is "the left is bad" blah blah. it's tiresome.
"Tiresome" is how left wingers describe truths they wish didn't exist. If he could justify saying I was wrong he would have said that. But since he couldn't this is the fallback since criticisms of the left must always be challenged. His only goals are attacking the right and defending the left, for example he would never describe incessant attacks on the right as tiresome even though that describes he and a dozen other commenters. Consistent standards or the truth simply aren't relevant to Jeffey.
He’s a mendacious, shit filled sack of blubber.
My new favorite is malinformation, which is true but may cause people to not follow the government's recommendations. Remember this is the party of science putting this out there. They need to ban true information if it counters the narrative.
They have ever changing labels and descriptors for what keeps coming out as the same message:
"Stop doing wrong-think or else"
"Many on the left tend to view speech in utilitarian terms – speech should only be legal if it passes a cost-benefit analysis. So they might argue that “hate speech” clearly fails this test because it serves no useful purpose and (to some) actually harms its targets"
"So from this rationale it is understandable why they might want the government to ban “misinformation”
Ya, no. Imagining the left in a utilitarian, dispassionate, near objective arbiter based on a cost-benefit model is not only completely detached from reality, but would also be giving them insane amounts of praise they havent earned. In reality, they use govt power to bully corporations into policing speech that aligns with their political ideology. Its nothing more. Stop with the fan fiction and retcon.
"2. Based on this, we do need to have a serious conversation about what to do about ‘misinformation’ online"
No, we dont. We wont be basing anything on the ridiculous first point you made, because its retarded.
The conversation that needs to happen about misinformation is to tell the left to stop shutting down speech using govt power by labeling it as 'misinformation', in a thinly veiled ploy to pretend they just care about the truth, before people get tired enough of their gaslighting. And trust me, we are close.
Well, you can either believe that 40% of the country is composed of caricatures of evil monsters for thinking that hate speech should be banned, or you could try to understand what their actual motivations are.
https://www.cato.org/survey-reports/state-free-speech-tolerance-america#overview
And I am telling you what I have come to understand the reason to be. It is the utilitarian reason that I posted above. To them, hate speech serves no useful purpose therefore it may be banned. For you it may be more fun to just consider those with whom you disagree as unthinking zombies who just hate liberty and freedom for no good reason, but that is just a sign of a lazy attitude and weak intellect. Why don't you take some personal responsibility to do the hard work to try to figure out what they really think instead of just making shit up because you're lazy?
To them, hate speech serves no useful purpose therefore it may be banned.
I'm having trouble identifying the hate speech exception. Maybe you could point it out for me:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Why should anyone who embraces liberty take seriously what you or any of these assholes think?
Unequivocally, those people are either stupid or evil.
If your experience is true (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt), and they’re basing their decision on utilitarian metrics, I’d lean more towards stupid.
"Unequivocally, those people are either stupid or evil..."
No reason to rule out "both".
Fair point.
" Forty percent (40%) think government should prevent hate speech in public."
And, interestingly, this set of people are happy to define 'hate speech' as any criticism of their preferred victim groups while hurling significantly worse, openly racist speech toward groups that they dont like. If 1/10th of the hateful language they use towards 'whites' was said of black/brown/lgbtq people, they would make every call to have the person jailed if they could.
So again, it comes down to the same principle as 'misinformation'. They aren't trying to stop misinformation, they are trying to stop information that contradicts their political ideology. They arent trying to stop 'hate speech', they are actively participating in using hate speech while banning the same rhetoric toward their protected groups.
So yes, I am willing to write off this 40%, if they feel that way, as either evil or so incredibly stupid they are just blinded by their political ideology such that they dont see what the consequences of their actions will be.
I line up with those who think more speech is better. You, again, are landing on the wrong side of history Jeff. With the racists, the collectivists, and the pedophiles.
The issue is that they think THEY should be the only ones able to determine what is and what is not hate speech.
Saying "men cannot be women" is construed, BY THEM, to be hate speech instead of, you know, simple biology.
Unless they are truly forced to live under their preferred rules, nothing will convince them otherwise.
“To them, hate speech serves no useful purpose therefore it may be banned. For you it may be more fun to just consider those with whom you disagree as unthinking zombies who just hate liberty and freedom for no good reason, but that is just a sign of a lazy attitude and weak intellect.”
Whether that line thought thought it it is kosher to ban "hate speech" is dangerously stupid or stupidly dangerous matters less than that it is both stupid and dangerous.
We had that conversation. It ended in 1783. No more and was further settled in 1789. No more discussion needed. It's pretty clear. Shall make no law abridging the free expression of speech. Pretty fucking clear. But than again the pretty fucking clear statement shall not be abridged they say we should have a discussion on too. Which basically shows the left has no fucking respect for the Constitution, but God forbid you say anything about abortion, Transgender etc LyingJeffy uses as examples of the right not respecting the Constitution despite none of those actually being addressed in any fucking sentence or word of the Constitution, but he says we need to have a discussion about what is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution. Show me where it says abortion is a freedom in the Constitution? The best argument might be it's covered by the 9A. Maybe, if it's recognized as an inalienable right. But then again the left has totally stretched the definition of the commerce clause to such a point that it does exactly the opposite of what it was meant to do, while at the same time ignoring or even defending states like California and Minnesota actively enacting laws that violate the initial meaning of the commerce clause. There is no asterisk in the 1A. Or the second or the 4-7, even if someone wears a faux viking helmet in the rotunda of the Capital. LyingJeffy has shown us all his true colors. What we've been saying about him for two years. He can't ever claim to be a libertarian again after today. If he does, we should just give him the Sevo treatment. He just showed he's as much a fucking authoritarian asshole as the Nazi Misek, he just thinks it's different because he does it for the right reasons (Mao and Stalin also thought they were doing it for the right reasons, the road to hell and all that). We should thank LyingJeffy for showing us his true fucking colors with no pretense today. It's such a fucking joke.
Jeff is a bully whose hectoring relies on rhetorical sleight of hand. Face to face, he'd undoubtedly wither like all cowards do.
He would probably cry and beg for mercy. He’s a bitchtitted bitch.
So they might argue that “hate speech” clearly fails this test because it serves no useful purpose and (to some)
Hate speech is extremely useful. It lets you know who the bigots are and what they believe. If they're allowed to share their ideas, you know what you need to say to counter them. If you ban their speech, they just do it quieter, in the absence of people who might contradict them.
The problem with hate speech is that the left defines hate speech as anything they disagree with. That's why they claim political arguments "deny their existence" and similar nonsense. By pretending everything is hate speech they enable their institutional allies to sanction their enemies.
Your worried about people who are so stupid that they'll believe anything? How would the Democrats get anyone to vote for them?
Del. Stacey Plaskett (D–V.I.) got the ball rolling by referring to Taibbi and Shellenberger as "so-called journalists."
It seems Dems have internalized the idea that actual journalists act in support of the political left, therefore this group are not actual journalists. This is of course quite bad. But in reality nothing these politicians say was not first asserted by other journalists, suggesting journalism itself largely agrees.
Better, she is a the monitor from the Virgin Islands.
She is literally a "so-called representative" calling an award winning journalist with 4 NYT bestsellers a "so-called journalist".
This is clown world. It was as if Terry Gilliam wrote and directed the hearing.
Michael Malice said something once that threw me for a loop, and I now believe it to be essentially true:
"Most people say the press is an arm of the DNC, I believe the DNC is an arm of the Press"
Let that sink in for a moment and tell me everything doesn't make a LOT more sense once you internalize that.
From what we have seen recently, they both are an arm of the CIA and the FBI and a group of quadi-governmental actors that might include Jeffrey Epstein.
And all of the above are arms of the Power Elite, the current generation of the hereditary European aristocracy.
It seems Dems have internalized the idea that actual journalists act in support of the political left, therefore this group are not actual journalists.
Well, of course, because they're marxists, and more specifically, of the maoist variety. When marxists talk about "the people," what they mean by that is anyone who's a fellow marxist. Anyone who isn't a marxist isn't part of the "the people," reardless of their ethniticy or socio-economic status. When marxists talk about "journalists," they mean anyone who promotes their selected narrative. Anyone who doesn't isn't a journalist, even if they've been working as one for years, if not decades. The Maoists, and Mao specifically, pulled this same rhetorical trick during the Cultural Revolution.
This is why you _never_ let the government decide who the "journalists" are.
The best part was when the questions became so ridiculous that Taibbi and Schellenberger were stifling laughter.
Also, check out the faces of some of the people sitting behind Shellenberger when Garcia made her "threesome" comment. Lot's of stifled laughter followed by head shaking. Like they couldn't believe she just said something so stupid.
You guys missed the darkest of the bunch. See Greenwald on Rumble last night for a good rundown, but in addition to the rep from Manhattan saying no "lawful" speech had been censored (LOL) - quite vigorously and at some length - there was an epic speech by the Democrat from Texas.
He went all-in on government censorship. He said that far from being a problem as Taibbi suggests, the FBI and CIA monitoring and censoring Americans speech is a good thing. It is actually heroic. They are protecting democracy from all threats, foreign and domestic.
He urged Taibbi to take off his tinfoil hat (yes, he literally said that), and after telling Mr. Taibbi he was not permitted to speak, he fully channeled Jack Nicholson in "A few Good Men" and ranted about how we need the CIA on that wall, protecting us from misinformation (which Taibbi had just thoroughly documented meant "speech that the establishment doesn't agree with or finds inconvenient")
Even better, today Glenn Greenwald documented that the funding for the "disinformation monitor" centers that are quasi private and funded by the US government also largely comes from foreign intelligence agencies!!!!
They are protecting us from foreign interference.... By allowing foreign intelligence agencies to decide what American citizens are allowed to say and read online.
Go back and read that again, and then explain to me exactly why the American people are not outraged. Hell, the libertarian press is only mildly bemused. They did send their best... But you would think that all that has been revealed in the last 3 months would warrant pitchforks and knives, not throat clearing before a mild rebuke, mixed with worry about who might pounce.
These are the 'blurred lines' between the private sector and government officialdom I alluded to a few days ago when arguing with one of the lefty but-I'm-a-totes-libertarian-and-you're-not socks in the comment section the other day.
"Libertarian" press, heh. Most of the writers here are libertines, not libertarians, and they wouldn't know much libertarian even if it bit them hard on the ass. I see more outrage over the Twitter Files and the actions of these Democrats yesterday in the New York Post and Zerohedge than I do from the supposedly libertarian standard-bearer Reason.
But you would think that all that has been revealed in the last 3 months would warrant pitchforks and knives, not throat clearing before a mild rebuke, mixed with worry about who might pounce.
This is why I'm doubtful that anything will change in any meaningful way until the only recourse left is pitchforks and torches.
All those fascist pieces of shit who showed exactly what they are yesterday? None of them will lose their next re-election bid. All of the bureaucrats who orchestrated this shit? They'll still be employed through the rest of Biden's term in office and, with the exception of the ones who are appointed, will still be working in the same job during the administration of whoever comes after Biden. Nothing will change until it's far too late for any hope of a peaceful change and violence is the only thing left. I do not look forward to that day.
He went all-in on government censorship. He said that far from being a problem as Taibbi suggests, the FBI and CIA monitoring and censoring Americans speech is a good thing. It is actually heroic. They are protecting democracy from all threats, foreign and domestic.
1. It's not happening
2. Ok, it happened but it's not as bad as you say.
3. [you are right the fuck here, and y'all know what 'here' is]
The Democrats have really shown what they think of political speech and they want it controlled. The mask is off, people. It was slipping over the past 7 years, but with this and the FTC investigating Twitter over releasing the Twitter Files, the mask is most assuredly off. Only the true statists here (like Jeffy above) can continue to deny it. I've been saying to others (some here, many outside of here) that this is a battle between the libertarians (not libertines like too many writers here) and the authoritarians (see the political compass) instead of the traditional left and right.
Left libertarians, in this new world, do exist. They're the people like Weiss, Greenwald, Taibbi, Shellenberger, et.al. The people who, at one time, would've been solidly on the left, but have never abandoned their principles. Right and left, we, as libertarians, need to band together to fight this. Otherwise, we lose, and we lose our freedoms, our liberties, and maybe a whole lot more. I sincerely doubt that we can afford to let the authoritarians win. (For the record, I really don't give a rat's ass about left versus right - I score on the line between the two on a political compass, about 2 to 3 squares from the hardcore libertarian side.)
Are we going to disagree, left and right libertarians? Yes, that comes with the territory. Will this be a difficult struggle, fighting back against the authoritarians? Yes, but the alternative is a future I (and I am sure, very many others, including a lot here) do not want to come pass.
The FTC came up repeatedly in the Democrat pontification (nee questioning).
They seemed to suggest rather darkly that the reason Twitter "voluntarily" complied with the FBI was that the FTC fined them $150 million and forced them to sign an agreement that gives the FTC unlimited power.
They had some degree of glee over the idea that Musk was powerless to stop them.
The problem here is that all this stuff martyrs Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans.
That is the rallying cry on both sides that Taibbi intentionally left out as much as possible.
It is clear that by their own definition, the left rigged the 2020 election. They said that “disinformation” from Russia rigged the election for Trump in 2016. That set the bar. Well, now we know. They pushed disinformation on a massive scale in 2020. They also blocked any facts that would counter the narrative.
We claimed the Ukrainian elections were rigged by Russia based on far less than this. And that was the foundation for our support of a coup.
Found it
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1634267110502289422?t=Jhn23IrBd5d8bdpJUYAbzg&s=19
Ha!
Glenn Greenwald
We censor to protect you.
We censor to shield you from harm.
We censor to strengthen your democracy.
Most of all, we censor because we love you --
With Big-Brotherly love,
The @CIA
Let this sink in folks, Greenwald, an self described socialist, is more libertarian than LyingJeffy, who claims to be a left leaning libertarian.
Does he? I always see him get upset when anyone suggests that he might be left leaning.
If rightwingers are crying about censorship, you can bet they are trying to censor someone. It’s how fascism works.
And oh look, Ron Desantis is literally banning books. You people are owed restitution for the mush FOX News has made of your brains.
Says the fascist who routinely projects his motivations onto his political enemies.
Keep in mind that shit-stain here has shown himself to be a stranger to reality many times, including:
Tony|9.7.17 @ 4:43PM|#
"I don't consider taxing and redistribution to be either forced or charity."
Yep, I'm sure you would pay 'taxes' even if a gun weren't involved, right?
DeSantis isn’t banning any books. You probably think he’s also trying to make women report logs of their menstrual cycles to the state government too.
You mean the ones actually reporting on stuff, and not regurgitating the Associated Press or New York Times take?
The real message is that there is no "the New York Times take". There is the CIA take, or the FBI take, or the DNC take. Or any random think-tank with appropriate connections! But not an "independent if biased journalist" take. It doesn't exist on state controlled media.
Since Reason apparently hates Rumble, here is a Glenn Greenwald clip on YouTube
https://youtu.be/LoYjzdu4jy4
More GG
https://youtu.be/yiICNTnFpTg
Entire episode is on Rumble
Do you use the app? I've tried to use the app on my phone and it's dogshit. It shows a blank screen. I can't search for creators, I can't see anything that I'm following. Works fine in a browser, but the app is fucking broken.
I hate the app. I am surprised at how far behind it is. There must be a lot of patents behind Google and other video presentations, because most of the things that suck could be fixed by copying how YouTube works.
Yeah, that has to be it. Because it would seem like a Jr Programmer, right out of college could make that app work like a dream in 12 hour coding jam.
Rumble is full of misinformation... and we need to have a conversation about that.
Taibbi’s book Griftopia exposed Obamacare and private/public partnerships for what they are: Facism. The fascists really don’t like him and they’re increasingly bipartisan (where I live they Rs and Ds love Public/Private ).
There’s also a slew of Democrat run cities that are essentially bankrupt, NYC and Chicago being the largest. The only way they can continue GRanT transfers; HUD, Transportation, DO Education, is Democrats controlling the federal government and pursuing “it’s white supremacy to let cities go into bankruptcy” woke angle. The HUD, transport and Education grants serve the purpose of making every county in the country Democrats.
The most fascistic leader in any Western Democracy, in my opinion is Justin Trudeau. There may be a European leader that I'm not overly familiar with who might better fit the description, but Trudeau is far and away the most apt example of a fascist.
Grifting 150million off Medicare and Medicaid makes Zients the winner, for now!
https://dailycaller.com/2023/01/23/jeff-zients-medicare-medicaid-fraud-white-house/
Justin Castreaux, Fidel's son. Known fact that Pierre and Margaret were swingers, cuckold Pierre enjoyed Fidel's intimate company with his wife. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Black face youthful Justin, updated to reflect his inclusivity :
https://i.imgflip.com/6wtifs.jpg
Kinda obvious that Justin is not his father's son. And pretty silly that we're supposed to believe he is. I'm pretty sure that DNA would prove that the communist fruit didn't fall far from the tree.
The fact that he and Castro look like fucking twins is all the proof I ever needed.
It's funny how the people who scream capitalism and conservatives are Nazis actually are enacting the very policies of that Herr Hitler and Goebbels used. Same control of the narrative, same violence to shut down other parties, same demonization of their political opponents, same financial and economic schemes. Hell, they're even pushing us into a war with Russia. BTW both Mussolini and Hitler despised capitalists which they called the enemy. I think even Franco wasn't a fan of capitalism. All you need to do is read how the New Deal they love to celebrate was crib noted off of actual fascists policies enacted in both Germany and Italy. God, did we really win the second world war, or did we just let the enemy infiltrate us? Kruschov famously said Marxism would sneak into the US. I think he used the wrong ism. But then again, Fascism and Marxism both claim the same intellectual fathers (both Marx and Hitler claimed that they were influenced by the same group of German philosophers in their writings).
Correct. Fascist Hitler and Communist Stalin signed a Pact with secret protocols because both despised capitalism, individual liberty and western liberal democracies. Egos and diverging agendas broke it. Winners aren't the only ones who learn from history. Losers learn, too. For the next chance.
The Hitler-Stalin pact : discussion of the Non-Aggression Treaty and the secret protocols
Jeffrey de Pourestier, January, 1992
Department of History, McGiIl University
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234008336_The_Hitler-Stalin_pact_discussion_of_the_Non-Aggression_Treaty_and_the_secret_protocols
(All is important read, but p30, p47, p61 discusses their common foe: western liberal capitalism, how propaganda highlighting their differences was malleable for their needs. Also provides historic context to Russia-Ukraine conflict today)
Remember when the left yelled Bush is a Fascist? Just a slur they hurled, typical. Or not. GHWB's father (and GWB's grandfather), Prescott Bush, is also known as "Hitler's Banker." For good reason:
How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power
The Guardian, September 5, 2004
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
Much down this rabbit hole for the truly curious. And grounded.
Socialist. Marxist. Fascist. Communist. All authoritarianism that sprang from those Frankfurt School philosophies. Take George Bernard Shaw. Socialist. Authoritarians of all stripes really hate the disobedient. It taps the evil that lies in many men's (and women's) hearts.
https://fee.org/articles/george-bernard-shaw-was-so-enamored-with-socialism-he-advocated-genocide-to-advance-it/
"For Shaw, “the goods” could only be delivered if the people were bound in universal slavery to the state. This enslavement was necessary for the people’s welfare; most of the population were brutes who, when left to their own devices, could not fend for themselves and thus required the state to “reorganize” their lives for them.
In Shaw’s eyes, the pinnacle of civilization had been reached by the Soviet Union. During his 1931 “pilgrimage” to Stalin’s wonderland, Shaw was given a glimpse of what he referred to as a “land of hope.” He denied that the regime had imprisoned significant numbers of political dissidents, describing the gulags as popular vacation destinations. “From what I gather, they can stay there as long they like,” he said.
That’s not to say he was willfully ignorant of Stalin’s atrocities. Rather, he defended them. Blindly accepting Communist propaganda, Shaw argued that the dictator was forced to organize mass executions to keep the country safe from “exploiters and speculators.” Mass murders were also necessary to maintain a competent workforce. As Shaw wrote in 1933, the “unfortunate Commissar” must shoot his own workers “so that he might the more impressively ask the rest of the staff whether they yet grasped the fact that orders are meant to be executed.”
But killing the disobedient and inefficient was only the first step in building a better society. Shaw also advocated for a far-reaching eugenics program. “[I]f we desire a certain type of civilization and culture,” he wrote, “we must exterminate the sort of people who do not fit into it.” This included a whole range of “defectives.”
But his murderous impulses didn’t stop there. A considerable number of people, Shaw argued in 1948, will never toe the line and are therefore no use to the rest of society. “[T]he ungovernables, the ferocious, the conscienceless, the idiots, the self-centered myops and morons, what of them?” he asked rhetorically. “Do not punish them. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill them.”
Socialism at All Costs
Though many early 20th century intellectuals were enamored with eugenics, arguably none were as committed to the wholesale slaughter of millions as George Bernard Shaw. For decades, Shaw was a staunch proponent of genocide, refusing to soften his views even after the full horror of the Nazi death camps was brought to light. And yet, there are many leftists today who continue to look to Shaw for political wisdom.
Writing for The Irish Times, Fintan O’Toole declares “The world has never needed George Bernard Shaw more.” Employing a fittingly violent metaphor, O’Toole lauds the way in which Shaw trained his machine gun-like personality on the “pieties of Victorian imperial patriarchy.”
Like Kristen Ghodsee, O’Toole praises Shaw for his polemics against gender inequality and the “tyranny” of family life. No mention is made of his fondness for eugenics. Other writers have taken to Shaw’s defense, admitting he sometimes said distasteful things but ultimately brushing off his more extreme statements as mere “satire.” However, given that Shaw’s penchant for promoting totalitarianism carried on for decades, it’s difficult to believe there was anything “satirical” about it. His bloodthirsty political philosophy seems to be have been all too genuine.
Nonetheless, Shaw was also a steadfast critic of capitalism and “Victorian” social values. His fiery denunciations of wealth inequality and traditional sexual morality resonate well with modern progressives. For them, an individual’s adherence to socialist orthodoxy is enough to absolve him of almost any crime.
From the relatively quiet and “respectable” anti-semitism of Ilhan Omar to the brutal and homicidal radicalism of Che Guevara, socialists have not only been willing to ignore the bigots and authoritarians in their midst but have gone so far as to embrace them. And few have been more adored than that eccentric playwright and unapologetic Stalinist George Bernard Shaw."
The socialists should be scraped off as quickly as possible.
The Democrats are enemies of free speech and want biased journalism only in their favor? Please tell me you're not surprised. I am shocked that anyone is shocked.
BTW, I don't expect Reason to cover this because it's "too local" but England is going through their version of The Twitter Files with The Lockdown Files.
And if you think it was different in this country, you'd be dead wrong.
Trigger warning: Reason Contributor, Brendan O'Neill
I knew stupid people were in charge of our government. I had no idea HOW stupid. Clearly, we need to vote out all women and anyone over the age of 60.
1. Historically, both Twitter and Facebook have favored conservative voices: "These stories of alleged suppression tend to be simply anecdotal because the facts simply don’t back up sweeping assertions. We at Media Matters have done study after study after study after study showing that conservative content on Facebook receives significantly greater engagement than other content. The New York Times’ Kevin Roose has shown that the top-performing link posts on U.S. Facebook pages are dominated by conservatives like President Donald Trump, conservative podcaster and Daily Wire co-founder Ben Shapiro and Fox News contributor and conservative news aggregator Dan Bongino......Facebook in particular has a long history of caving to right-wing pressure — going back to 2016. Facebook executives have held multiple meetings with top conservatives, made Breitbart a trusted news partner and changed the Facebook algorithm to avoid cries of censorship from the right. They even went so far as to intentionally suppress news from progressive sites like Mother Jones on the Facebook news feed in order to elevate conservative sources." NBC
2. Government alerts or requests are not pressure unless accompanied by some threat Most legal requests have concerned actual criminal behavior such as child pornography and terrorism: "Twitter removed some or all of the content concerned in 29 per cent of cases — almost all of which came from Japan, India, Russia, Turkey and South Korea."
3. No evidence has ever been produced to support the claim of pressure, which a request is not unless accompanied by a threat. No such threats for failure to conform to government requests has ever been produced,
4. Government does not violate the 1st amendment unless it infringes on protected speech. Of the thousands of legal requests the govt sent to Twitter, 71% were rejected and so that demonstrates a clear lack of threats. In regard to alerts and requests regarding conservatives (often using hate speech and inciting violence) , there is no evidence of threats, zero, and so there was no illegal "pressure"
5. Matt Tabbi, once a respected journalist, has now become the Glenn Greenwald of progressive turncoats, working overtime to help rigthwingers force private companies, using government pressure, such as Congressional hearings, to violate the 1st Amendment by infringing on the right of Twitter or Facebook or Fox News by pressuring them to publish rightwing garbage. You can'thave it both ways. Congerssional investigations are justified by the need to gather information for legislative purposes......and so censorship does the Congressional right have in mind and what is Tabbi doing sucking up to Trump and the MAGA crowd?
I mean a lot of retard there, but some quick hits.
"1. Historically, both Twitter and Facebook have favored conservative voices"
LMAO! Nice one there.
"5. Matt Tabbi, once a respected journalist, has now become the Glenn Greenwald of progressive turncoats, working overtime to help rigthwingers force private companies..."
They are the same as they have always been. The left just went bananas, and they are one of the few people willing to call out the naked emperor.
Take a look at the 'respected journalists' that are left and tell me you would want to be labeled as such, among them. Ben Collins? Taylor Lorenz? Felicia Somnez? These people are ideologues willing to parrot party talking points for back pats and attaboys who wouldn't dare speak a word of truth that is out of line with their marching orders. I would frankly be embarrassed to be considered a 'respected journalist' in today's climate
Does #1 even matter with respect to the thread? Favoritism of voices is not the issue. The issue is calling something disinformation because it was contra the government's narrative.
Kinda like dealing Misek; a lie and irrelevant besides! A two-fer.
The issue is liars corrupting your brain and making you incapable of judging facts from lies.
I say incapable, but you’re presumably not a vegetative retard. So you could, in theory, figure out how to acquire facts instead of placing a funnel between your ear and Tucker Carlson’s mouth. But this is all highly theoretical.
Did you assume there was an actual 'thought' included in that attempt at an insult, asshole?
Tony, you’re just bitter that Tucker won’t fuck you. So back to the bathhouse with your worm old rectum.
Certainly no one wants you here. You have nothing to offer, except stupidity amd Marxism.
At the current stage of the game, your #5 and #2 don't match.
A congressional hearing in and of itself is not pressure. Showing congress internal emails of Twitter is not pressuring Congress to do anything.
4. Government does not violate the 1st amendment unless it infringes on protected speech. Of the thousands of legal requests the govt sent to Twitter, 71% were rejected and so that demonstrates a clear lack of threats.
Really? I had not heard that one. Do you have a source for this?
"...3. No evidence has ever been produced to support the claim of pressure, which a request is not unless accompanied by a threat. No such threats for failure to conform to government requests has ever been produced,..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
The fact that the gun wasn't visible it totally irrelevant and even a lying pile of lefty shir should know that, lying pile of lefty shit.
There's just too much retard and tin foil to unload here. Plus, when you've lost Jeffy, you're fully certifiably bonkers.
We at Media Matters
Everything you say can automatically be dismissed now.
"We at Media Matters"
Next
If Matt Taibbi had been on his game he'd have responded to Cong. Wasserman Shultz's money question with one of his own:
"How much has your net worth increased for voting like you have in Congress?"
Any time one of these political whores in that parliament that PJ O'Rourke once wrote of tries those kind of slanders on We, The People they should be made to instantly regret it.
Someone please alert Reason that their site has been hacked. This article was posted under the byline of Robby Soave, but it clearly wasn't written by him.
Robby's been the only one covering this for Reason and the coverage started the day Musk released the files to the writers.
What?
Lol
Go back to twitter, idjit; that's the limit of your understanding.
So the Republicans win a small majority in the House and finally put into the public record what anybody who was paying attention already knew. Fauci's criminal complicity in the GOF pandemic. Government censorship of the internet. Prosecutorial misconduct revealed revealed by the J6 videos. The deep state, DNC, Reason, Koch house of cards is collapsing. The Democrats are in full panic mode openly revealing themselves as the authoritarians that they are. And we haven't even gotten to the Biden crime family corruption yet. Robby serves up his typical mealy mouth protests because people said mean things about journalists while Sullum tells us it's AOK to hold a man in solitary confinement for a year and sentence him to another 3 and a half in federal prison because, in spite of the undeniable fact that he was invited in by police, should have known he was committing a misdemeanor crime. Fuck you Robby and Fuck Reason. Tomorrow we'll get another Florida Man Bad screed while your preferred regime destroys the last shreds of liberty we still enjoy and drags us into WW3. I've been a Reason subscriber/reader since the 80s. For the last 7 years you've pissed on liberty and become a part of the establishment that this magazine was founded to resist. Just stop pretending to be libertarian. Nobody believes you anyway. Food trucks and licensing don't really jazz me up when I live in a fucking police state.
Yes we know. Because Reason hasn't become a part of the insane right-wing paranoid media complex, they are "part of the establishment". You know, the place that advocates for legal drugs (all of them), legal prostitution, reforming or downright abolishing social security (something now neither major party is willing to do in earnest), etc.
Those "last shreds of liberty" that we supposedly possess are quite a lot, actually. Things aren't great, but my God, listening to you all, you'd think we really are living in some version of Soviet Russia. It is insane.
More like East Germany.
If you think we are living in an East Germany, then your perception is so out of whack that there is no hope.
Coming from you, that's a compliment.
The people you side with think men can get pregnant, and that you should give physiology altering hormones to children (and sometimes surgery) to affirm a mental illness that they are a different gender.
But ya, sure, its the people pushing back on the left's nonsense that have problems perceiving reality. Yup, makes sense
East Germany would wish they had the access to their citizens information and movement that the US has today.
Care to point out the differences?
The differences between the current US and the Soviet Union? are you serious?
Yes; Yes I am... Or Nazi Germany for that matter.
This may be the most enlightening research you've ever done.
Well, we can start with the Holocaust, or the Holodomor...
Also, the Great Purge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
don't recall Biden demanding that Trump be rounded up and executed
Not Biden himself, but the idea is certainly being publicly stated by influential people:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-most-damaging-leak-biden-wants-trump-prosecuted/ar-AAVRrzr
-
https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbcs-beschloss-former-cia-director-hayden-suggest-trump-executed-having-nuclear-documents
-
https://freepress.org/article/if-convicted-trump-must-be-executed
"After previously calling for President Donald Trump’s impeachment, former Massachusett Gov. Bill Weld has stepped up his attacks, telling MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough Trump is guilty of the crime of treason and should face execution."
https://insidesources.com/weld-accuses-president-trump-of-treason-calls-for-the-death-penalty/
-
https://www.weeklyblitz.net/opinion/democrats-now-want-donald-trump-hanged/
Well, then. Let's review your links.
1. A bunch of Democrats want Trump prosecuted for inciting the riot on Jan. 6. Which, by the way, is a legitimate crime and a legitimate charge, not a trumped-up fake charge a la Stalin. And the Biden Justice Department isn't doing it. Hmm. So much for the Soviet Russia comparison.
2. Beschloss makes a tweet about what happens to spies who are caught giving away nuclear secrets after it is rumored that Trump's illegal classified documents had some nuclear secrets. Does Beschloss have any power? This was an example of Fox News fanning the flames and making a story out of nothing.
3. An op-ed by a columnist sarcastically asking for Trump to be held to his own standard when TRUMP demanded that Schiff and a bunch of his own opponents be charged with treason and face execution. Was she serious? I don't know, but that is not my reading of the article.
4. Bill Weld is still an idiot.
Yes, yes this is exactly like Great Leader Biden rounding up all the Republican politicians and sending them to the gulag based on the 'crime' of disloyalty to the state. Yes, exactly.
Your comparison is weak and tenuous.
By the way, if a bunch of Democrats demanding that Trump be prosecuted for inciting a riot is a valid comparison to Soviet Russia, what about Trump demanding, WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT, that his opponents should be charged with treason and face execution? Hmm? If you are going to claim that some historian making an oblique tweet is a troubling comparison to Soviet Russia, what about the sitting president directly tweeting that his chief opponents should be charged with treason? Hmm?
OH wait let me guess, when Trump tweets exactly and directly about Adam Schiff being tried for treason, that is just a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. But when some historian tweets "hmm, spies were executed for giving away nuclear secrets" in an oblique reference to Trump, then that's OMG SOVIET RUSSIA territory. Amirite?
You are such an idiot.
“Which, by the way, is a legitimate crime and a legitimate charge, not a trumped-up fake charge a la Stalin.”
Are you fucking serious?
No, he's not.
Solovski prison camp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solovki_prison_camp
They themselves even called it a 'forced labor camp'.
... Classified/Covered-over 'appalling' news surfacing...
Check. (The Twitter Files, Gov-Made Covid)
And, generally, their entire approach to liberty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Soviet_Union
Complain all you want about taxes or progressives, but none outside of a few random nutcases have advocated for billionaires to receive the death penalty.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THERE IT IS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In 2009, the progressive authorities formally repealed all ...Supreme Law... and established a socialist legal system. ...this system abolished Western legal concepts including the Supreme rule of law, Supreme Law civil liberties, the protection of law and guarantees of property.
.................. And the mismatch is where ..............................???
[2][3] For example, profiteering could be interpreted as (selfish and greedy) a counter-revolutionary activity punishable by MASSIVE ARMED-THEFT. Progressive authors claimed that a new socialist rule of law was created, protecting personal properties and civil liberties, and developing the basis of an international rule of law.[4]
Seems your only distinction here is instead of just SHOOTING rich people; they're just Looted and Lynched by the public with Law on their side.
If you think that there is any legitimate comparison to be made between the current US and the Soviet Union, you are completely out of whack. Furthermore it is offensive to the real victims of those brutal totalitarian states that the indignities that we suffer in this nation, while real, are in any way comparable to the vast horrors that they had to endure.
Biden is not a good president, but he hasn't demanded that the kulaks be rounded up and shot. So get a grip.
Be patient.
As Vernon points out so well. The only differences you are making is the aggressiveness of the Progressives.
You still have yet to demonstrate a single ideological difference between the two.
You were right, leave it to Fiona:
https://reason.com/2023/03/13/ron-desantis-immigration-playbook-is-all-about-big-government/
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“It is disappointing that congressional Democrats are taking little interest in the weaponization of the federal government against Americans’ speech rights; on the contrary, they think the weapon needs sharpening.”
And for those who don’t *pretend* they live in a Nazi-Democracy while it is disappointing (mildly put); it’s entirely expected from the left. What in the world would give anyone any impression that Democracy ([WE] mob RULES) ideology would guarantee any rights or freedom? ---- IT DOESN'T..
Worth reviewing.
https://amgreatness.com/2023/03/09/a-handy-january-6-fact-sheet/
The surveillance video viewed by Carlson’s team has not been made available to defense attorneys, arguably in violation of defendants’ constitutional rights.
A separate trove of tapes that captured activity from the hours between noon and 8:00 p.m. was turned over to the FBI in early 2021 to use in its investigation. With few exceptions, all footage remains under protective orders. Defense attorneys consistently have complained that access to the full archive is constrained by the protective orders.
You don't need all the video to prosecute the offenders. Just the video of the crimes the prosecuted individuals committed. If a video shows the advised of committing a crime, a video of him standing in a corridor doesn't mitigate that.
This whole hoopla over the release of this trove of video to Carlson is just something to feed certain people, to assuage the anger over how disgusting that behavor was, making your side look so bad. Keep in mind that all constructive aren't like that, consumed by QAnon ideology, anymore than ANTIFA represents the left.
"...If a video shows the advised of committing a crime, a video of him standing in a corridor doesn’t mitigate that..."
Howe many "hims" are we discussing, steaming pile lf lefty shit?
If the prosecution has video showing that the defendants were not guilty of the crimes they were being accused of (or might cast doubt on the severity of their alleged crimes), withholding such is a violation of several rights
Those were all dishonestly framed! - jeff
I think Reason misses the point - Big Tech wasn't ordered by the government, they were merely asked and Big Tech was all too eager to.
The problem is censorship, period, not who does it.
Bribed would be far more fitting giving the $3M in funds.
Course it takes a complete moron to pretend they don't know all too well what happens when one isn't "eager" to obey a government request.
And no; it isn't just generic censorship; it's censorship with the almighty Gov-Guns that is the problem.
I was amused to see Congresswoman Garcia stupidly hectoring Matt Taibbi to reveal his sources at Twitter while Jim Jordan couldn't restrain laughter as he interrupted her to explain why government can't do that to a journalist.
She and the nitwit from the Virgin Islands have been deluded into believing that they are helping Democrats by fighting like 1930's Republicans to increase the government's power to violate Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Speech.
Democrats Deride the Twitter Files Reporters For Exposing Their Deceit and Corruption
Welcome to the party, pals
The title of this webzine is Reason, suggesting that some objective critical thinking is at work here. But the tone of this article reflects that it’s the same old message, the same old biases. I watched some of these hearings, and this article ignores the larger points. The facts are the facts, and here’s a major one. Trump, too, tried to have tweets removed, and over the pettiest reason, and it was because someone called him a name. He wasn’t complaining because it was disinformation; he was complaining because someone called him a name.
To the person with blinders on, it appears that the left pushes for it more often than the right. Out of context, it would appear to be true. Context makes it clearer, and there's a reason for it. It’s because the conservative media market traffics in flat-out disinformation because the fanbase has a craving hunger for it. True, Hillary’s emails weren’t disinformation, but it was used for disinformation later, including the absurd accusation that Democrats were devil-worshipping pedophiles. However, as absurd as that accusation was, it persisted, and it persists even today.
Also, this whole idea that the election was stolen: This was heavily promoted on Fox News, and all of those private emails and text messages demonstrate just how much much they’re aware of how false it was, and the motivation was that their conservative audience crave nothing but misinformation. Other sites provided space to people promoting this blatant falsehood, but Fox News was the spearhead. It turned out to be very dangerous, and it really has done severe damage to our political process.
So let’s be clear on this. Jim Jordan is running a circus, and the purpose of the circus is to pander to that audience that craves disparaging falsehoods. It's designed to and keep this insane rhetoric up, that the government is looking to censor conservative voices out of social media. Matt Taibbi is talking about specific examples–anecdotes, really–but it’s not as sweeping as Jordan suggests. Taibbi is saying it was done, but it targeted specific information. The extremely biased political views persist all over Twitter, and the most extreme and absurd ideas are still part of the right-wing swill, without censorship. All of the right-wing grifters are have set up shop, peddling the most simplistic smears for the lowest common denominator. It was only specific information that government entities targeted. The stuff about COVID, for instance, stuff of a purely partisan nature that was meant to disrupt the efforts of government. No tweet was asked to be taken down because some douchebag called Fauci a name.
You wrote a whole lot of words and said absolutely nothing of substance--just rhetorical handwaving in the service of your boos.
"...Trump, too, tried to have tweets removed, and over the pettiest reason, and it was because someone called him a name. He wasn’t complaining because it was disinformation; he was complaining because someone called him a name..."
Lefty shit tries false equivalence first.
"...It’s because the conservative media market traffics in flat-out disinformation because the fanbase has a craving hunger for it..."
Now goes with flat out lies.
"...Also, this whole idea that the election was stolen: This was heavily promoted on Fox News,..."
If lefty shit didn't have Fox news, lefty shit would be SOL. Who pitched the 'russki collusion', lefty shit?
"...The stuff about COVID, for instance, stuff of a purely partisan nature that was meant to disrupt the efforts of government. No tweet was asked to be taken down because some douchebag called Fauci a name..."
Some serious arm-waving by lefty shit; when you're missing any facts, wave those arms.
Oh, and please eat shit and die, asshole.
With their actions in that hearing...certainly makes one question their demands for laws where the government decides who is and who is not the press.
1) Private companies are allowed to censor whatever the fuck they want to censor.
2) The only government figures to request Twitter to censor anything in 2020 were from the Trump administration.
3) These supposed journalists aren’t aware of these things, for some reason.
What are your thoughts on Congressman Colin Allred's statement?
Hahahaha
"...2) The only government figures to request Twitter to censor anything in 2020 were from the Trump administration..."
Keep in mind, this lie was posted by the shit-stain who has lied thusly in the past:
Tony|9.7.17 @ 4:43PM|#
"I don't consider taxing and redistribution to be either forced or charity."
Now, let's see what else we can find. Well, looky there!
"Governments Increase Pressure On Twitter To Censor Journalists"
[...]
"Governments are increasingly demanding the removal of journalist content from Twitter, the company's latest Transparency Report shows.
During the second half of 2020, says Twitter, it received 361 legal requests from governments to remove content from the verified accounts of 199 journalists and news outlets, up 26 per cent on the first half of the year.
Overall, the company says it received 38,524 legal demands to remove content specifying 131,933 accounts..."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2021/07/15/governments-increase-pressure-on-twitter-to-censor-journalists/?sh=1d2f348f1ccb
Eat shit and die, asshole.
Simp harder for censorship.
Free speech is not a value of the Left anymore. You must uphold the orthodoxy of the Party. To do otherwise is WRONGTHINK.
'supposed journalists'
Get Bent.
First off, anyone who writes anything can be a 'journalist' under the law. That includes you or me or Nardz. Anyone, equally. You don't need a degree and you don't need to write for a prestigious publication or even Reason. We all have freedom of the press / speech / expression. Thank goodness.
Second, fuck you, these are actually credentialled journalists with multiple awards in that community and a huge online following of people who regard their work very highly. They do the 'journalism' thing for a living. And it's not like you or the fascist Democrats on the committee didn't know that already. You are just being assholes.
They rely on credentialism because that way only those who have shiny press passes and are approved (conveniently by govt, often) get to say what is true.
And those folks all fall into group think that tends to align with the govt that approved their press passes and access...Tony doesnt find this suspicious at all.
For how much he hates religion, he cant even tell that he is in a religious cult
Biden admin directly called for ban of someone spreading 'misinformation' because he wasn't in line with party talking points (ie, what big pharma demanded) ...and then he got banned. Later when it came to light, turns out he violated no TOS (other than going against Fauci, which turns out isnt in the TOS).
Adam Schiff had his staffers contacting Twitter directly to censor speech they deemed to be 'misinformation'.
So its not 'muh private company'. Its govt officials bullying muh private company to comply with their political opinions or else. Whats that thing you always scream about here, histrionically? Something beginning with an F?
Just two, well documented, examples for you pal.
Get your head out of your ass and the left wing bubble, its embarrassing how behind you are on this topic.
"...Get your head out of your ass and the left wing bubble, its embarrassing how behind you are on this topic."
Among many others; ask shit-stain about masks, for example.
1) When your company censors users under the direction of government, the "private company" argument does not apply anymore, you become a de facto arm of the government.
2) Not remotely true, Taibbi showed numerous examples of the government colluding with various companies to silence dissenting voices.
3) This is also not true, both journalists acknowledged Trump's requests. The big difference is that Trump has no influence at getting that done, and what the Democrats did with their collusion.
Is this the best defense you can come up with? Pathetic.
“For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.” - Galatians 6:3
Gee, is there finally a writer at Reason that has realized the Democrats are as far as you can get from libertarian without actually raising a hammer and sickle flag?
Still waiting for that.
Hammers and Sickles represent 'freedom' to some people apparently.
My Representative, Gerald Connolly, 11th District Virginia, was a big disappointment. After trying (and failing) to make it seem like the witnesses only went after liberals, he remarked that the purpose of the subcommittee was to investigate the weaponization "against conservatives". He was immediately contradicted by the witnesses and by the subcommittee chair. He then rather lamely replied, "I had a different understanding of the purpose".
I sent him an email asking for a citation of any language from the subcommittee's documents that gave him that "different understanding", though I very much doubt I will get a response. I don't think there is any documented basis, it was just a snide remark.
So, so disappointing. He had this one chance to stand up for freedom of speech, to push back against the intelligence agencies who are clearly just following the same playbook they've been developing against foreign countries to destabilize them, and running it here in the US against US citizens -- and on the US payroll.
I've never thought Rep. Connelly made much of an impression, he always seemed like just a chair-warmer to me. Suspicion confirmed, sadly.
Connolly's nothing more than marionette for FedGov workers. Boebert does more work than he does.
Liberal propagandist questioning real journalists! LOL
Congressperson: "You need to be censored. You're not a 'real' journalist." So, what? Are you implying journalists are the only ones who have free speech? Or, that you have the power to violate free speech? And, you decide who is "free to speak"? Congressperson, you have just described a tyrant, e.g., one who denies free speech.
Clever way of attacking the messenger, rather than refuting the argument.
"Members of Congress showed their true colors at a Thursday hearing."
While mainstream corporate liberal media largely fails to cover their Marxist masters exhibiting said colors!
"Del. Stacey Plaskett (D–V.I.) got the ball rolling by referring to Taibbi and Shellenberger as "so-called journalists."
How might Ms. Plaskett respond if referred to as a "so-called public servant"?
Troll Mac is not smart enough to participate in any philosophical discussion because his only purpose here is to shit on people and troll.
You are wrong about my purpose and my motivation here. You routinely lie about me because you cannot discuss ideas, you are here to trash the people you don't like. Since you are incapable of participating, you attack my motives. You are a liar, a troll and a coward.
"We" as in the government? Nothing, with the very narrow exception of things like true threats or libel.
"We" as in society? I think each individual should have the liberty to decide whether or not to own or to read such books or pamphlets even if they contain damaging misinformation. The optimist in me thinks that Cyto's belief above that "bad speech can be countered by better speech" will win out in the end and the damaging misinformation will eventually give way to the truth. However, I worry that in our current world, with books and pamphlets being substituted for social media, with its instantaneous and global reach, that the "better speech" will not always win out in the end. I think we have a real risk that the "bad speech" will be spread so rapidly and be believed by so many that the "better speech" or the truthful speech will not be able to compete. This world really will become a post-modernist hell where reality genuinely is determined by mass consensus rather than by objective facts. And I think that is a concern that merits our attention. I don't think the government should get involved. But I do think that well-meaning individuals should try to do our part in spreading truthful information so that this post-modernist dystopia does not come to pass.
Thorough enough for you?
And I think that is a concern that merits our attention.
And yet when it happened, as with Trump Collusion and Hunter's Laptop is a Russian Disinformation campaign you supported the misinformation.
I agree that the government’s ability to spread their lies all around the world so quickly and effectively is a threat to “better speech” being overwhelmed.
I agree that the government is capable of spreading misinformation. But why do you focus on only that source of misinformation? Do you think that the government is the only entity capable of spreading misinformation?
Which is the greater problem here - the misinformation itself, or the government transmission of misinformation?
Is misinformation any less bad if it is spread via non-governmental means?
That has nothing to do with my (heretofore unrefuted) observation that Taibbi misrepresented the Aspen report. That doesn't necessarily make him less of a "journalist", but it does call into question why he did it.
Typo? Brain fart? Or was it something more sinister?
Anyway, I found it amusing, considering the context. You may now carry on with your Taibbi prostrations.
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"That has nothing to do with my (heretofore unrefuted) observation that Taibbi misrepresented the Aspen report..."
So far, you've shown a distinction without a difference; it takes a certain bias to label that as 'misrepresentation'.
Maybe you should simply read the Aspen Report instead of pushing these false questions that can easily be answered if you just read the report that you are commenting on.
The report specifically recommends the language quoted by Taibbi and footnotes the poll as support for that position.
So, the irony of you criticizing Taibbi for failing to be fully accurate (which he was) while admitting yourself that you don't know enough about the subject to be fully accurate is just off the charts.
Government doesn't have "rights".