North America's UFO Weekend
Plus: States move to curtail internet anonymity, Amsterdam cracks down on cannabis, sex, and booze, and more...

What in the name of The X Files is going on in the skies? Since last week, the U.S. government has shot down three unidentified flying objects—otherwise known as UFOs. This follows the government shooting down what folks have been calling a Chinese spy balloon on February 4. So are we looking at an epidemic of Chinese spy balloons now?
Nope—this is much weirder. U.S. officials can't even say exactly what these objects are.
The first UFO was shot down last Thursday as it hovered about 40,000 feet above Alaska.
National Security Counsel Coordinator John Kirby said on Friday that this "high-altitude object" was unmanned, had no significant surveillance equipment, and was "much smaller" than the Chinese balloon—"roughly the size of a small car, as opposed to…two or three buses' size." But it "posed a reasonable threat to the safety of civilian flight," Kirby explained, so "President Biden ordered the military to down the object. And they did."
At a press conference not long afterward, Air Force Brigadier General Patrick Ryder said that the object "wasn't an aircraft per se" and there was no indication it was maneuverable. "We have no further details about the object at this time, including any description of its capabilities, purpose or origin."
Really hoping this 'unidentified [flying] object' was another spy balloon and not a legit UFO; the irony of confusing an alien spacecraft for a weather balloon would be amazing but not worth starting an interstellar conflict. https://t.co/GDc35n69ii
— Peter Meijer (@RepMeijer) February 10, 2023
Then, on Saturday, the U.S. shot down an object above Canadian airspace.
"I ordered the takedown of an unidentified object that violated Canadian airspace," Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced on Saturday. "Canadian and U.S. aircraft were scrambled, and a U.S. F-22 successfully fired at the object," which had been spotted over the Yukon. "Canadian Forces will now recover and analyze the wreckage of the object," he added.
Like the UFO over Alaska, this one was flying at about 40,000 feet, Canadian Defense Minister Anita Anand said at a press conference. It was also unmanned.
Saturday also saw the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) temporarily close down airspace over Montana. "NORAD detected a radar anomaly and sent fighter aircraft to investigate," the organization announced. "Those aircraft did not identify any object to correlate to the radar hits. NORAD will continue to monitor the situation."
On Sunday, NORAD temporarily shut down airspace over Lake Michigan "to ensure the safety of air traffic in the area during NORAD operations."
Later reports revealed that the Great Lakes airspace closure also involved shooting down an unidentified object.
"I've been in contact with [the Defense Department] regarding operations across the Great Lakes region today," tweeted U.S. Rep. Jack Bergman on Sunday afternoon. "The US military has decommissioned another 'object' over Lake Huron."
"The Pentagon said the unidentified object shot down on Sunday by an F-16 fighter jet at 2:42 p.m. EST (1942 GMT) over Lake Huron appeared to have traveled near U.S. military sites and posed not just a threat to civilian aviation but also as a potential tool for surveillance," reported Phil Stewart of Reuters.
The Pentagon also said it could connect the object over Lake Huron "to the radar signal picked up over Montana, which flew in proximity to sensitive DOD sites."
Air Force General Glen VanHerck, the head of NORAD, said on Sunday night that it was unclear how the objects were staying in the sky.
Asked whether aliens could be ruled out, VanHerck said he wasn't ruling out anything yet.
Before we all start panicking, consider this tidbit from The Washington Post:
The incursions in the past week have changed how analysts receive and interpret information from radars and sensors, a U.S. official said Saturday, partly addressing a key question of why so many objects have recently surfaced.
The official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said that sensory equipment absorbs a lot of raw data, and filters are used so humans and machines can make sense of what is collected. But that process always runs the risk of leaving out something important, the official said.
"We basically opened the filters," the official added, much like a car buyer unchecking boxes on a website to broaden the parameters of what can be searched. That change does not yet fully answer what is going on, the official cautioned, and whether stepping back to look at more data is yielding more hits—or if these latest incursions are part of a more deliberate action by an unknown country or adversary.
So it's possible that we're not suddenly experiencing more unidentified objects over U.S. airspace; we're just paying more attention to them. Whether that's more or less reassuring, I'm not sure…
This month's rash of UFO sightings corresponds to a steep increase in UFO reports since 2021, notes CNN's Peter Bergen.
According to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence's "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" report (released last month), Navy and Air Force staff reported 247 UFO sightings from March 2021 through August 2022—compared to just 144 sightings for the whole 17-year stretch between 2004 and 2021.
"The report suggested that the increase may be because there is less 'stigma' associated with reporting UFO sightings, now that the Pentagon is actively pushing service personnel to report any 'anomalies' seen in the sky," writes Bergen. "Indeed, in July, the Pentagon established a new entity, the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office, to investigate credible sightings of UFOs by the US military and intelligence community."
A good number of the UFOs reported were balloons or "balloon-like entities," while 26 were drones. But there were also 171 objects that couldn't be readily explained and "demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities."
FREE MINDS
Lawmakers keep trying to destroy things that make the internet great:
Thread: bills in both red and blue states would curtail online anonymity. https://t.co/8f032BnmfJ
— Walter Olson (@walterolson) February 11, 2023
FREE MARKETS
Amsterdam moves to become less tourist/vice-friendly. "Smoking cannabis on the street in Amsterdam's red light district will soon be illegal," reports The Guardian. And city council members are considering a rule barring cannabis café customers from smoking on terraces too.
These are just a few of the measures that the Dutch city and popular travel destination is implementing or considering in order to make the city less of a tourist hot spot—and less profitable for bars, restaurants, shops, sex workers, cannabis cafés, and other businesses:
Sex workers will also have to shut up shop at 3am rather than 6am, while bars, cafes and restaurants must close at 2am rather than 3am on weekdays and 4am on Fridays and Saturdays, with no new customers allowed to enter after 1am.
Shops in the inner city, already barred from selling alcohol after 4pm from Thursday to Sunday, will have to remove bottles and cans from their windows or hide them behind screens, and a ban on drinking in public will be strictly enforced.
QUICK HITS
• What Super Bowl ads tell us about the U.S. economy.
• State Republican lawmakers are clashing with prosecutors over abortion law enforcement. "Republicans in Georgia, Indiana, South Carolina and Texas—frustrated by progressive district attorneys who have publicly pledged not to bring charges under their state's abortion laws—have introduced bills that would allow state officials to either bypass the local prosecutors or kick them out of office if their abortion-related enforcement is deemed too lenient," reports Politico.
• A new bill in California (A.B. 374) "would allow licensed cannabis sellers in the state to also sell non-intoxicating foods and beverages to their adult customers," as well as to host live concerts, reports Baylen Linnekin. "The bill's passage would meet a growing need—and could result in a welcome proliferation of authentic cannabis cafes and similar businesses."
• The school board of Madison County, Virginia, recently banned The Handmaid's Tale from high school library shelves.
• "South Dakota's H.B. 1080 would ban gender-affirming medical care for minors" and "has now passed both chambers of the legislature, getting only four no votes in the Senate," writes Chris Geidner.
• "Don't force child care workers to get college degrees," argues Timothy B. Lee (whose home city, Washington, D.C., is doing just that).
• Is Magic Mike's Last Dance about the evils of zoning regulations?
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What in the name of The X Files is going on in the skies?
I guess new wars have somehow become too expensive a diversion.
We should be celebrating the new austerity.
The truth is out there.
And by out there, we mean in Biden's garage.
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Next to the Corvette that Hunter uses from time to time.
Is that the one with the hooker tit-prints on the trunk lid?
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Its all false flag shit by both the U.S. and China trying to goad each other into something and it may not be smart
How do you know it's a false flag?
Dee! You bitch!
Shooting down weather balloons is a more effective and less politically damaging distraction from a failure to shoot down Chinese spy balloons.
Yeah, I noticed Brandon repeatedly said he had no regret about delaying the shoot down of the original balloon but then went instantly trigger happy on the rest of them. Suddenly, dropping balloons on sparsely populated areas seems like a great idea.
The first balloon was much larger and floating at a much higher altitude than the subsequent "UFOs".
Ever hear of Terminal Velocity? Impact velocity is the same from 80,000 feet as 40,000 feet. But you are a dumbass willing to prove your dumbassery to defend Biden at all costs.
It wasn't a failure, they were doing what their boss Xi told them to do
Let's see. Sending up a $337M plane, with an operating cost of $70,000 per hour, to shoot down a $5000 balloon with a $500,000 missile. It's clear we need to start recruiting some teenage boys with BB guns are we're going to go broke.
Do you have an inexpensive way to get teenage boys with BB guns to 60,000 feet?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawnchair_Larry_flight
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China really fucked up with that "weather balloon." Inadvertently exposed all kinds of shit.
It'll be even more expensive if we have to fight them with/against flying
saucerscylinders!A capitalist 200 foot balloon would have been covered in ads like the one Colonel Saunders launched in 2017:
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2023/02/how-china-lost-race-to-put-beijing-duck.html
The weirdest part of its journey came before its arrival in US air space:
How did a balloon as big as the US Capitol dome traverse hundreds of millions of Chinese cel phone users without anyone uploading a selfie of themselves with his sign in the heavens?
Possibly a Chinese distraction to divert from seeing what they're really up to.
We need SHADO to deal with this.
U.S. officials can't even say exactly what these objects are.
Can't.
Imagine expressing surprise that something being referred to as an "unidentified flying object" is not yet identified.
Wow, you really owned ENB on that one! A signal well sent!
Stop simping for ENB, loser. She's not into you.
She won’t even make him a sandwich
In Mike’s ENB dominatrix fantasy, she is into him.
How many inches?
There may need to be elbow grease involved.
I think Mike could take at least 8 inches. He’s not Tony, but I’m sure he can take it pretty good.
I think there's a chance Mike's either ENB herself, or her wiener husband. Even on Twitter he seems to follow her around, picking fights with anyone who reacts negatively to her comments.
White Knight really was the perfect handle for him.
Does Mr. Weiner make the sandwiches?
Something gets sandwiched in between the buns.
I’m sure Mike has fantasizes about ENB pegging him.
My $1 was on a Reason staffer.
The editors here are professionals and this is their vocation. While paycheck is the motivation there will be desire to see how the proletariat views their works, even if the commentariat can be means girls. There may also be the “pride of authorship” angle to defend that work when contested.
In the past, occasionally, the author would show up as themselves and interact with the commentariat. It is in play for them to also show up in sock puppet form.
I would agree with a Reason staffer, but not ENB herself. He follows @ENBrown around way too much on Twitter (@MikeLaursen2). Him being her husband would fit as well. He seems especially touchy when ENB is criticized.
People are strange. Have seen the same person in an online forum have a discussion with two accounts they controlled.
It could also provide her the ability to view and comment on things without it being attached to her. I vaguely recall a few athletes and coaches doing this. Not saying definitely or probably, just possible.
He's not her husband. Seriously; see my comment below.
Yes, I have seen ENB do that on occasion; calls guys "Sweetie" and condescends a plenty.
Mike’s posts ooze feminine energy so that is why I think it could be a woman (or en effete male, which supports the “just a mere simp” theory).
The current authors are afraid to show up in the comment section and defend their indefensible drivel.
I think there’s a chance Mike’s either ENB herself, or her wiener husband. Even on Twitter he seems to follow her around, picking fights with anyone who reacts negatively to her comments.
No, Mike's a real guy. Do a search for his Quora page.
He's just a simp is all.
Holy shit. Reasonable Libertarianism?
https://reasonablelibertarianism.quora.com/about
That is a page that anyone could have setup with links to Mike’s Reason comments.
Could this also be Mike?
https://vote-usa.org/Intro.aspx?State=CA&Id=CALaursenMike
There is a Mountain View connection there. (My own hometown)
It looks like that guy later ran as a Democrat in Ohio.
I didn’t know Mike wrote libertarian fan fiction.
She is one writing that it is weird that the government cannot say what an unidentified object is.
Only someone who is actively searching every day for ENB's every tiny fault in order to impress the Mean Girls would care enough about that sentence to comment on it.
Mean Girls? Taking lessons from sarc?
Expecting a level of quality from a professional writer is being mean?
Is your real last name "Okun"?
Yes, you are only concerned about professionalism here.
Mean girl? Like doxing someone for being critical of you?
To be fair, Elizabeth doxxed the person for making a sammich comment. She doesn’t have a rye sense of humor.
Your observation does contain a whole grain of truth.
I don’t always loaf around.
Today is the first time I've heard them described as UFOs. All weekend I simply heard they were balloons.
All this UFO talk….Hey, where’d that Elvis Is Real guy disappear to all of a sudden?
Why would he get banned? I get banning Shrike, because he posted CP, but what the Hell did Elvis do?
It's just another un-declassified flying object
I like how ENB is playing up the extraterrestrial angle, even if subtly, while last week, the idea that the Chinese spy balloon might be a Chinese spy balloon was so utterly preposterous that it didn't warrant serious consideration.
She's merely parroting the talking points in the talking points email.
I think won't is more appropriate here, but the party probably has its reasons for the wording.
They can't even.
Really hoping this 'unidentified [flying] object' was another spy balloon and not a legit UFO; the irony of confusing an alien spacecraft for a weather balloon would be amazing but not worth starting an interstellar conflict. https://t.co/GDc35n69ii
— Peter Meijer (@RepMeijer) February 10, 2023
If it was an alien craft, it's not Unidentified, Dummy!
Sanford Dummy Reel
https://youtu.be/moYdbNXBwvk
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!
Just felt appropriate.
Giant Meteor 2024!
Aliens discover a new means of illegal border crossing. (Just thought I’d float that one by you.)
Lawmakers keep trying to destroy things that make the internet great...
Have been for decades. Its invention was the greatest boon to DC's ability to create problems to pretend to solve.
Amsterdam moves to become less tourist/vice-friendly.
You couldn't hide from the globalists forever.
Especially the anti-smoke zealots. Did anyone think that pot smoke was going to be treated with more tolerance than tobacco smoke?
Think of the carbon footprint!
Yes, I thought so, because culture war. It's not against smoke per se, it's a "thing" they have that's anti-tobacco and pro-pot — because of who enjoys each, respectively.
You didn’t think it through.
Nope—this is much weirder. U.S. officials can't even say exactly what these objects are.
Well, just warn us if the US government sets up a UFO landing field near Devil's Tower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4PYI6TzqYk
"What Super Bowl ads tell us about the U.S. economy."
The official hype man for the Biden economy says everything is going great and only wingnuts would be dissatisfied with this.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
#BestEconomyEver
Right; spitt’n tobaccy
Why do people think that the stock market is equivalent to the economy?
...bills that would allow state officials to either bypass the local prosecutors or kick them out of office if their abortion-related enforcement is deemed too lenient...
If this opens the door to making prosecutors less rhetorically bulletproof, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
Unintelligible
Fetterman
Object
Launched by the CCP?
I have been led to believe China is heavy in Brazil maybe the Missus is an agent.
National Security Counsel Coordinator John Kirby said on Friday that this "high-altitude object" ... had no significant surveillance equipment
Emphasis added. WTF?
That's called propaganda.
Or, you know, just poor wording.
Sort of like no significant election fraud?
No significant violence at the mostly peaceful riots.
Fiery, but mostly peaceful riots.
Now now, none of your incendiary comments!
No widespread ufos.
Maybe Pritzker can pay it for everyone out of his personal fortune.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/each-chicago-taxpayer-on-hook-for-nearly-42000-of-city-debt/
According to the report, Chicago had just $10.6 billion in assets available to pay bills totaling nearly $48.8 billion. Chicago’s total bills were the second highest in the nation, better than only New York City that had over $251 billion in total bills. Chicago’s total bills were 2.5 times higher than third-highest Philadelphia’s $19.5 billion, highlighting how much the city is struggling with debt and spending.
The report also reveals Chicago has the largest amount of unfunded pension benefits in the nation at over $33.7 billion. That’s over three times as much as second-highest New York City’s $10.7 billion.
At least Chicago isn't the Second City in something.
Hey, look over here! Gun control!
Or, "Oh shit, better take their guns away!"
Insanely high taxes and some of the most valuable real estate in the world can’t overcome corruption and stupidity. Who would have ever seen that coming?
Well this oughta' help.
https://news.yahoo.com/500-month-no-strings-chicago-124921326.html
Why stop at $500. No reason not to do $5,000. It can be like the morons that decided every black person in CA deserves $300k in reparations.
SF is planning to give them $5 million each.
A new bill in California (A.B. 374) "would allow licensed cannabis sellers in the state to also sell non-intoxicating foods and beverages to their adult customers," as well as to host live concerts...
I don't know if a Funyuns rack should count as a cafe.
What Super Bowl ads tell us about the U.S. economy.
The economy is always great when Republicans are in power. Now, the numbers don't show this but everyone knows it.
Fatass Donnie's 4 year GDP of 1.6% = best economy ever.
Shrike Likes Tikes
Sorry. Your economic analysis is worthless.
You nuked the last bit of your credibility with your gaslighting campaign to defend this.
You're a less famous, more partisan Paul Krugman.
"You’re a less famous, more partisan Paul Krugman."
Damn, that was awesome. 🙂
That was 100% pure OUCH!!!!
Yes, 2022 was quite a bear market.
Not nearly as bad as 2020 though. When did I defend a bear market? The NASDAQ bear market of 2000-2001 was deep.
So?
Your shtick for the past 2 to 3 years is to blame all bad 2020 (pandemic & lockdown year) economic news on Trump, then spend Biden's entire Presidency defending every aspect of the economy with "Ummmmmmmmm, helllooooooooo? We're recovering from a pandemic, of course there will be rough patches beyond Biden's control!"
It is absolutely pathetic and everyone here sees right through it.
Now go on. Spam HAPERINFLATION some more. Make another idiotic reference to spittin' tobaccy.
#NotFoolingAnyone
You need to see this, Sandy.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-2023-inflation-forecasts-by-country/
A Visual World Inflation Map.
Spittin' tobacky prices are outrageous in other countries.
You really do need to learn to fully read your links.
While rising food and energy prices accounted for much of the inflation we saw in 2022, the IMF’s World Economic Outlook highlights that core inflation, which excludes food, energy, transport and housing prices, is now also a major driving factor in high inflation rates around the world.
It seems odd that everything people need for living is EXCLUDED from “core inflation”, doesn’t it.
Yes. I've always found it a bit strange as those are the things that hit people most in the wallet.
If you want to understand the reasoning and a more nuanced understanding of inflation in several sectors, this article helped me: https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/01/23/supercore-inflation-excludes-food-energy-and-housing/?sh=597a90b63328
When I read your post and thought "because they're really volitile", but realized I didn't have a very deep knowledge of why, I went looking for information.
We understand the distinction just fine. We just think that the terminology and use of core inflation is deliberately misleading and manipulative for political reason.
No, you don't like that the way things have been done for a long time doesn't make your political enemies look as bad as you want them to look.
If the same measuring stick has been used to measure previous Presidents, why would you suddenly think it was deficient? Economic measurements aren't trying to find out what the average man on the street feels. It is comparing apples to apples with consustent measuring tools and, as happens from time to time, that standard is changed, making sure everyone knows whatbthe change was and not comparing data derived from the old method to data derived from the new method.
Your complaints are political, not scientific. There are valid reasons to separate highly volitile variables out from core jnflation. Because the volitility of a small number of variables will hide the underlying trend in yhe broader economy.
It's not that those things aren't measured. You do know that, right?
If not, you should read the article. Although it is from that notorious leftist rag, Forbes.
I have always objected to the inflation measurements used by the government and how those measurements are being misused by both parties.
That is correct it is a political issue: I object to the manipulation of inflation measures and the debasement of the currency, by both parties, for as long as I have been alive.
It is ignorant fools like you who think that this is a partisan issue.
"I have always objected to the inflation measurements used by the government and how those measurements are being misused by both parties."
And your displeasure is relevant to the reality of how inflation is measured ... how? It's not difficult to look at core inflation and look at inflation in food, fuel, and shelter. They come out at the same time, they are measured the same way year after year, and the reason more volitile elements are removed is because they obfuscate the inflation rate for the vast majoroty of the economy if they are included. If makes sense, you just don't like it because you don't have to actually use the figures to measure anything or create policies based on them. You just don't like it because you don't like it.
"That is correct it is a political issue"
No, it isn't. It is data that people use for everything from companies projecting demand and earnings to public policy to macroeconomic predi tions of every stripe. The fact that YOU think it's a political issue doesn't make the practical, everyday uses to which that data is put go away.
"I object to the manipulation of inflation measures"
When you measure something the same way, year after year, it is the opposite of manipulation. Even the measure of food, shelter, and fuel is measured the same way every time. Manipulation is changjng things to give a false perception of reality. Inflation, as a consistent and transparent measure derived by the same formulas and inputs every time, is not that.
"the debasement of the currency"
We have found something we agree on. The devaluing of the dollar through rampant deficit spending and quantitative easing by the Fed is terrible for the country. While I hate the reason that it is being done and I feel for all of the people who worked for companies that failed to plan for the end of free money (rampant in VC and tech), I welcome the return to rational Fed rates.
"It is ignorant fools like you who think that this is a partisan issue."
I not only don't think its a partisan issue, I don't think it is a political issue at all. It is a mathematical measurement of one aspect of the economy. You're the one who seems to think it's politically-derived. The fact that political forces use the numbers in their forever-war doesn't make the data itself political.
I merely expressed my displeasure. It clearly isn't relevant to anything you happen to consider "economics", misguided as you may be.
You'll have to explain how I am "misguided". I know what the core rate is, why it is measured the way it is, and what uses that data is put to.
I don't complain that the system dervised to provide clear, relevant data for various different companies, policy analysts, governments, and macroeconomic organizations doesn't include things that make it less clear and less relevant for the purposes it is used for.
It seems like the person who wants to make the inflation rate useless (or unnecessarily complicated to use effectively) is the misguided one. The inflation rate is the data that is used to build relevant conclusions, not the endpoint.
Because as producers of the worlds reserve currency America can dilute inflation at home and share the pain everywhere.
This is basic economics, even Sarcasmic would know this. Who do you think you're fooling.
"It is absolutely pathetic and everyone here sees right through it."
Quoted for emphasis.
If he were only a little cleverer with the misdirection and obfuscation it wouldn't be so pathetic, but he isn't.
You just flat out lie, ML.
Yesterday I said Teabaggers overwhelmingly support Medicare/caid and posted a link that said 70% do so.
You then tried to say I meant "supported Medicare/caid more than Democrats do".
Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2 20 hours ago (edited)
http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/US110410/McClatchy/McClatchy-Marist%20Poll%20Complete%20April%2018th,%202011%20USA%20Poll%20Tables.pdf
The vast majority of Tea Party supporters – 70% – oppose cuts to Medicare and Medicaid.
page 17
Mother's Lament 17 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
You really think that I won’t read your links, don’t you?
“Question Wording: Do you support or oppose doing each of the following to deal with the federal budget deficit: Cut Medicare and Medicaid?”
Oppose Liberal: 90%
Oppose Moderate: 88%
Oppose Tea-Party: 70%
Support Liberal: 8%
Support Moderate: 11%
Support Tea-Party: 28%
Literally the opposite of your inference that the Tea Party was more supportive of Medicare and Medicaid than the general population. And you’re self-identified tribe was actually overwhelmingly in opposition to cuts at 90%. 20 points higher than the tea-party folks you were trying to shit on.
Always read Buttplug citations, folks, because he rarely ever gets past the headline. And whenever he actually does, he lies about the contents.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If turd includes numbers, they are either outright lies or cherry-picked to change the meaning entirely.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Flail more.
April 18, 2011
So you picked a poll that is over a decade old? Things change in a decade, Turd.
This is from 2019, a bit more recent: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/medicare-for-all-isnt-that-popular-even-among-democrats/
In the Marist poll, 90 percent of Democrats thought a plan that provided for a public option was a good idea, as compared to 64 percent who supported a Sanders-style Medicare for All plan that would replace private health insurance. The popularity of the public option also carries over to independent voters: 70 percent support it, as compared to 39 percent for Medicare for All.
Pluggo likes handling things that are ten years old.
That's young for whisky.
Democrats are irrelevant, fool.
I said that Tea-Party disaffected Republicans like ML are BIG GOVERNMENT Conservatives - see also Medicare-loving Donnie.
The spending and the polls show I am correct. THEY LOVE their government health care. ML is Canadian - always on the dole.
Again, got a link to a newer poll?
They don't poll Teabaggers any more.
They were almost as worthless as that ridiculous 'Occupy Wall Street' movement.
Rightly forgotten.
Again, got a newer poll, Turd? Or are you just blowing smoke from your anal aperture?
Rightly forgotten.
Then why did you bring them up?
Your implication was that Tea Partiers supported it more than the general population, not just the left. Your own citation shows that they did not. And 70% isn’t overwhelming, but 90% by Team Buttplug is.
No matter how you try and twist it, you were clearly misrepresenting the facts.
It’s also weird how you’re attacking a group so vociferously whose purpose was to advocate the fiscal restraint you pretend to favor. One might think that your self-proclaimed passion for government thrift is disingenuous.
You want to explain it to us?
I oppose "cutting Medicare" (for current recipients) and still think the program should be phased out and eliminated.
Even formulating the question as "do you support/oppose cutting Medicare" means buying into the left wing b.s. and propaganda of false dichotomies.
Buttplug knows, but he's here to bullshit and lie.
Pluggo is here to get supply.
I though he cruised playgrounds for supply.
*Mic drop*
It was doing well enough in the first three years that you far left dickheads had to use the Chinese superflu as an excuse to deliberately destroy it in yesr four.
Of course the blame ultimately falls on Trump for not being able to figure out what you guys were doing and letting himself get snookered so badly. The proper response was he should have told Fauci and all the rest of you to just go fuck yourselves.
The school board of Madison County, Virginia, recently banned The Handmaid's Tale from high school library shelves.
A move right out of The Handmaid's Tail dystopia!
Forcing women to birth animals with tails is dystopian and satanic
How dare they!
Imagine "banning" adult stories from a kids library. What's next? The school board "banning" Lady Chatterley's Lover, the Marquis de Sade's letters and Fifty Shades of Grey?
Chemjeff: "sNoW wHitE!!!"
Let's not leave Tony out. He thinks Showgirls should be perfectly fine for a rated-G audience.
InsaneTrollLogic 4 weeks ago
So you think Showgirls would be appropriate for an 8-year old?
Tony 4 weeks ago
I don’t personally think sex as a topic hurts anyone, and I think when conservatives try to shield young people from sex education, it’s a sinister cover for their own motives to keep children innocent, the better to rape them. That’s what I feel.
Violence, which you people are fine introducing children to in toddlerhood, is a more complicated subject to my mind.
https://reason.com/2023/01/16/with-classified-documents-the-real-divide-is-between-the-powerful-and-the-rest-of-us/?comments=true#comment-9880404
No surprises that a pervert as extreme as Tony would favor showing erotica to children.
You clearly haven't read the book. I read it back in the 80s when I was in high school. It is raw and unsparing in its particular version of dystopia, but it isn't perverse or pornographic.
It was one of my favorite books in high school because of the theme of totalitatian government and the characters whose actions seemed hypocritical based on their professed beliefs. It was the first time I read about characters who were belivably presented avoiding cognitive dissonance through faith. It wasn't that their actions and beliefs weren't in conflict, it was that they didn't feel it because their faith was so strong. It seemed like a revelation to me, but I was only 15 or 16 so I was only starting to experience such complex and seemingly contradictory elements in characters.
It is completely appropriate for high schoolers. It isn't an "adult book" (what does that even mean, anyway?). But it doesn't surprise me that cultural conservatives have it on their ban lists.
In other words, a politically ignorant, elitist Canadian author has successfully indoctrinated you into her idiotic view of the world.
And that is why this shouldn't be part of the US school curriculum.
“In other words, a politically ignorant, elitist Canadian author has successfully indoctrinated you into her idiotic view of the world.”
It’s fiction. It doesn’t impact my view of the world any more than Star Wars does. It is well written with complex characters and themes of the dangers of totalitarianism. That makes it a good book and good fiction, but it isn’t reality. That’s why it’s called “fiction”.
“And that is why this shouldn’t be part of the US school curriculum.”
Because well-written, compelling fiction is a bad thing for high school students to read? It’s literature, not poli-sci or history. You can recognize the difference between fiction and reality, right? So can high school students.
Because among the millions of books high school students might read to improve their education, this is nowhere near the top. The only reason to select it is for its propaganda value.
“Because among the millions of books high school students might read to improve their education, this is nowhere near the top.”
Great. Your opinion amd $5 will get you a Starbucks. Your opposition to the book is clearly not based on an analysis of the themes and characters in the book, but some external factor.
Apparently you are against literature that addresses the dangers of totalitarianism? Because I think that that’s exactly the sort of themes that have educational value, which is why books like 1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are important.
I’m not sure what “propaganda” you think A Handmaid’s Tale is spreading. Again, apparently you never read the book if you don’t understand its educational value.
Atwood knows nothing about the dangers of totalitarianism. She is a privileged, self-righteous wealthy Canadian regurgitating progressive talking points to appeal to equally privileged, self-righteous pricks like you.
1984, Animal Farm, and Brave New World are important. There are many more excellent books warning against the dangers of totalitarianism from people who actually know something about it.
Margaret Atwood's books are to such books as dime romance novels are to Shakespeare.
As an aside, I highly recommend you read Fahrenheit 451. You could learn something.
We are discussing what books should be read in a high school curriculum. I am saying that Atwood's book simply isn't a very good book, and that if you want to warn about the dangers of totalitarianism, there are far better books.
The fact that you liken such a discussion to book burning by a totalitarian regime shows how utterly ignorant you are of totalitarianism. Like Atwood, you have never experienced actual totalitarianism.
You two are cut from the same mold. And when push comes to shove, people like her and you end up at the vanguard of totalitarian regimes.
I just wish it was due to it being one of the worst quasi-sci-fi novels of all time and not for conservative-virtue-signaling political reasons.
How about being grossly age-inappropriate for a kids library?
Bicurious George
The Department of Education has out that on the kindergarten required reading list.
It isn't for kids. But it is for high schoolers. It's completely appropriate for them.
I would be amazed if there's not a porn flick out there called The Handmaid's Tail.
Rule 34.
Madison County has gone a bridge too far!
Nazi abuse.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/12/the-use-and-abuse-of-the-rise-of-the-nazis/
Demonising the people in this way is a familiar tactic. In the aftermath of the French Revolution, conservatives like Edmund Burke painted those in Britain demanding the same rights as their French counterparts as the ‘swinish multitude’. Likewise, today’s establishment ideologues present any democratic challenge to the political order as a proto-fascist multitude.
"today’s establishment ideologues present any democratic challenge to the political order as a proto-fascist multitude."
Meanwhile, they themselves push actual fascist economics and social policies.
It's like hypocrisy has become a sacrament for the gentry class.
Do you want Trump? Because this is how you get Trump.
Or possibly something worse: someone that is actually like what they thought Trump was.
I think Burke also was sympathetic to the Illuminati hypothesis.
Yeah, but he was a Shriner so you can’t trust a word he said.
They need to maintain that myth because otherwise people would see the close analogies between Hitler’s rise to power and the center-left progressive parties.
"Populism" is another propagandistic misdirection. In actual fact, sticking it to "the 1%" and demonizing certain racial groups is what progressives are doing and represents the same kind of "populism" that Hitler engaged in.
Nazi ideology, then as now, was rooted in scientism, progressivism, sticking it to the wealthy, and supposed "social justice". It was both popular with voters and also widely supported and driven by academic elites and intellectuals.
What's really goofy is how, beginning in 1979, populism began to be identified in North American circles as specifically anti-libertarian, when historically it's been more libertarian than average. If you read Madox & Lilie's Cato booklet you can see they had an OK reason to use the word "populist" the way they did, while admitting it wasn't a great word for what they meant, but in a few years it got cemented in libertarian circles as a synonym for "authoritarian" via a Nolan-style chart. Slowly over the following 15 years or so, things like the World's Smallest Political Quiz stopped using it that way, and Nolan himself never used it to mean that, but the damage was done, and to this day many movement libertarians think populists must be at least more authoritarian than average. It inhibits us from making even temporarily alliances that we should.
Burke was sympathetic to the American Revolution while despising the French Revolution. The American Revolution led to a fairly orderly republic. The French Revolution led to The Terror, dictatorship and an Emperor.
"Is Magic Mike's Last Dance about the evils of zoning regulations?"
I guess I'll never be a real libertarian because I thought it was about the evils of a movie industry in which every successful thing just has to become a franchise.
#AndYouThoughtTakenWasAPointlessTrilogy
"South Dakota's H.B. 1080 would ban gender-affirming medical care for minors"
Would it also ban genital mutilation of minors?
Those are the same things - - - - - - - -
Yeah, but one is done by the heartless patriarchy and the other is done by compassionate progressives.
In your world, the only version of gender-affirming medical care is reassignment surgery? That's so extreme as to be irrational, since almost no trans children get surgery. There are a lot who socially transition and many who use hormones and pharmaceuticals to delay puberty, but the percentage of trans children who get surgery while they are minors has several zeroes after the decimal.
In the current environment, this seems a reasonable action to take.
I'd still prefer the full liability method. As the victims of medical malpractice are harder to demonize, and it allow for a self correcting system for over reach. But I'm unlikely to get my way.
Don't forget about the double mastectomies for minors.
Yes, those do happen. And before I get more confused comments
- I fully acknowledge gender-affirming mastectomies are being done on girls under 18. I have never said otherwise. I think it is wrong for such surgeries to be done.
- I also think it’s a bad idea to have gender-affirming genital surgery, at any age. However, I respect an adult’s right to make bad decisions for themselves. Also, I oppose culture warriors repeating that which is not true (namely, that children under 18 are receiving genital-altering surgery in the US) in service of feeding their outrage addiction.
"And before I get more confused comments... I fully acknowledge gender-affirming mastectomies are being done on girls under 18. I have never said otherwise."
We're not "confused", but you're lying.
You've claimed dozens of times that such a thing wasn't occurring, right here in the comments.
So, you lied before ? Right. Not just mistaken? Not just pig ignorant? Not just willfully ignorant?
The hospitals own websites said girls at 17 were getting bottom surgery. You have been given the links a dozen times.
Likewise chemical castration drugs on a boy started early causes undeveloped organs. Often leading them to surgery due to the secondary side effects.
Youre so fucking dishonest Mike.
He’s so delusional.
Mike will soon claim his account was hijacked again.
Which doesn’t actually ever happen. No doctor in the US performs genital-altering surgery on anyone under 18.
After weeks of pointing this out, the strongest evidence I have been presented was by Minadin , who linked to a recording of a phone call where Chaya Raichik of Libs of TikTok got the person answering the phone at National Children’s Hospital in Washington, D.C. to say they would perform a gender-affirming hysterectomy on a girl of 16.
So, maybe Raichik came up with something! Some problems with the call:
- In the very first sentence that Raichik speaks in the call, she says that it is very difficult to find a clinic that will do a gender-affirming hysterectomy on a child of 16. She repeats this one or two more times during the call.
- Unacknowledged is that one of the people Raichik speaks to says she doesn’t know any details of whether they would perform such surgery on a 16 year old.
- Raichik doesn’t follow up at all. She doesn’t make the appointment that was offered, she doesn’t speak to a surgeon or ask a hospital spokesperson. She doesn’t go out and find someone who had such surgery as a child.
- The hospital responded to the recording with a few days of finding out about it, clarifying that their policy is to not perform such surgeries on anyone under 18.
- Even if they were performing such surgeries on children under 18 up through last year, their current policy is no such surgeries on anyone under 18.
Which doesn’t actually ever happen. No doctor in the US performs genital-altering surgery on anyone under 18.
You'd think this faggot would stop blatantly lying and cherry-picking here, but Mike remains ever the Squealer for his lefty boos.
Jesus, you are a lying lefty shill.
https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/health/whistleblower-report-on-st-louis-transgender-clinic-triggers-calls-for-federal-state-probes/article_9a4bbd77-6f53-5f40-838f-7ad47475cf43.html
Yes, I read the article about the whistleblower, Jamie Reed, days before it came up here in the commentariat. Michael Shemer of Skeptic magazine had retweeted it.
I’ve read it three times now. I recommend you read or re-read it, becuase it says nothing about children under 18 receiving hysterectomies or penis surgery. It does say a lot about chemical treaments, but that’s a subject separate from my claim.
https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids
I commend her for speaking out.
As I’ve said her before, but you and your buddies refuse to acknowledge, I am probably the only person in the commentariat who actually knows families with transgender and “gender fluid” children. I have written about how I noticed a trend among pre-adolescent girls in progressive Bay Area families to declare that they are gender fluid; a trend that has to be, well, a trend, not genuine body dysmorphia.
The whistleblower makes exactly the same observation as I did.
There is no way a "lefty shill" would say what I just said. For the record, again:
- I don't support chemical or surgical gender-affirming care for minors. BUT, I also think it's the parents' business.
- I think it's a bad idea for adults, too, except possibly for rare cases of genuine ambiguous sexual development becuase of rare genetic conditions. BUT, I also think it's the adults business.
- I do oppose culture warring over this issue. Lying about gender-altering surgeries being available for children under 18 is culture warring at its worst.
(To be more accurate, I shoudl have written "dysphoria" rather than "dysmorphia".)
You, too, should be opposed to people going around stating that people under 18 can get gender-affirming hysterectomies or penis surgery in the US. Here's why...
You have made it clear that you are a gun rights supporter. I'm sure it makes you angry when anti-gun activists include suicides in "gun violence" statistics, leading people to think that there is more person-on-person violence with guns than there really is.
It is the tactic of pumping up one's cause with false or misleading data. And it's exactly what conservative culture warriors are doing when they keep repeating the untruth that people under 18 years old in the US can receive gender-affirming hysterectomies and penis surgery.
Let's stick to facts.
Opponents of these procedures aren't responsible for that confusion, people like you are.
Let's call it what it is: surgical castration, chemical castration, cosmetic surgery, and elective amputations.
Girls can undergo all these procedures. The only disagreement between you and others is whether boys can undergo all or just some of those procedures. It's a distinction without meaning even if you were correct.
You have made it clear that you are a gun rights supporter. I’m sure it makes you angry when anti-gun activists include suicides in “gun violence” statistics, leading people to think that there is more person-on-person violence with guns than there really is.
LOL, no, it doesn't make any intelligent gun rights supporter angry. We just point out that alcohol-related deaths outstrip gun-related deaths by orders of magnitude (and this is not bullshit, as alcohol-related deaths skyrocketed from about 85K a year to 140K a year in the last three years), and that if they actually gave a shit about preventing deaths, they'd call for a repeal of the 21st Amendment, according to their logic.
Hey Mike, we've told you before, and we'll tell you again. Open your eyes and take that red pill from Morpheus.
https://washingtonstand.com/commentary/at-least-13-us-hospitals-perform-gender-transition-surgeries-on-minors
The Gender Health Clinic at Children’s Wisconsin (Milwaukee, Wisc.) focuses on “children and youth” and “will meet with new patients through age 16.” They offer “puberty-suppressing hormone therapy, gender-affirming hormone therapy, surgical treatments, and speech/voice training.” They refer patients 17 or older to “an adult hormone provider.”
But wait, there's more!
https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/18/doctors-performing-sex-change-surgeries-children-minors-transgender-boston-childrens-hospital/
The hospital has performed at least 65 transgender chest surgeries on minors, the vast majority of whom were biologically female and identified as transgender males. The hospital’s guidance allowed vaginoplasty at 17 and did not list an age limit for “gender-affirming” hysterectomies until online activists shared the hospital’s videos promoting the procedures, sparking outrage.
I do believe 17 is less than 18 there, Mike.
I don't even think that 18 is great, but if you have to have an age, I guess the one where you can buy a gun or cigarettes should work.
Oh wait, that's 21 now?
The Jamie Reed article had a really devastating account of a confused young lady who got a double mastectomy as soon as she turned 18. 3 months later she wanted her breasts back.
You have a good point. 21 might be a more appropriate age of consent for surgery or chemical treatment that can cause such permanent change and have such bad side effects.
All the procedures and drugs you euphemistically call "gender affirming" cause permanent changes and side effects.
That is a gross mischaracterization of puberty blockers. It's not even a little bit permanent.
Bullshit. They alter the course of a child's development. They will not mature into what they would have been without the puberty blockers. The long-term effects are not well understood.
Oh, sadly, the long term effects are actually quite well understood and they are bad. See below.
They are bad even within the twisted logic of "trans activists", because you can't have "gender affirming surgery" unless you go through puberty.
And what happens as soon as they stop taking the puberty blockers? Do they never go through puberty?
Are you really that ignorant?
And I noticed that the minute you got called on your BS, "permanent" turned into "not well understood".
For reference, hormone replacement treatmemt for menopusal women is "not well understood". That standard is so vague as to be meaningless. And the decision about the risks of medical treatme t belong to the patient (and their parents, for minors), not some random sanctimonious scold holding government office.
And what happens as soon as they stop taking the puberty blockers? Do they never go through puberty?
In most cases, they will go through delayed puberty, but because they have continued developing physically and mentally while their natural development was being tampered with, the outcome of the process will not be the same as it would have been had they not been poisoned.
And the decision about the risks of medical treatme t..."
Puberty blockers for "gender" tampering are not a treatment for any physical problem. They are used to "improve" the cosmetic results of medically assisted "transitioning".
Puberty blockers certainly cause permanent changes. Many children do not undergo normal puberty after they take puberty blockers. Most will never be capable of having an orgasm or normal sexual function. Even if puberty restarts and proceeds normally, there are inevitably abnormal changes because the adolescent growth phase is prolonged.
Furthermore, puberty blockers make it impossible to actually perform a satisfactory sex change operation because that requires mature, adult sex organs. If you believe in "gender affirming surgery", promoting puberty blockers makes no sense.
Both puberty blockers and sex change operations are Mengele-level eugenics procedures.
"Most will never be capable of having an orgasm or normal sexual function."
100% untrue. That's as scientifically accurate as saying getting an abortion makes you sterile. It's pure, unfounded propaganda. It is scientific fantasy, brought to you by the same sorts of people who have lied about abortion for 50 years.
"Even if puberty restarts and proceeds normally, there are inevitably abnormal changes because the adolescent growth phase is prolonged."
Really? What changes have been found?
"Furthermore, puberty blockers make it impossible to actually perform a satisfactory sex change operation because that requires mature, adult sex organs."
What are you talking about? You need to have mature, adult ovaries for a hysterectomy? Will you believe anything as long as it supports your preferred narrative?
"Both puberty blockers and sex change operations are Mengele-level eugenics procedures."
Wow. That is a finalist for the Hyperbole Hall of Fame. Thank God you aren't in the medical field.
Puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and genital surgery also pose risks to sexual function, particularly the physiological capacity for arousal and orgasm.
I leave it to you to find the source.
Adverse factors associated with use [of puberty blockers] were changes in body composition, slow growth, decreased height velocity, decreased bone turnover,
I leave it to you to find the source.
You need to have a mature penis and testicles to construct an artificial vagina. You need to have a mature clitoris and labia majora to construct an artificial penis.
Plenty of people in the medical field engaged in sterilization of the mentally ill a century ago too.
I’m a scientist, I understand human embryonic development. And I have been clear that science provides no arguments against abortion. In fact, science provides no arguments against transgender surgeries, infanticide, euthanasia, or eugenics either.
It is your error to believe that these are questions of science when they are actually questions of ethics.
"I leave it to you to find the source."
The source that indiscriminately mixes hormones, puberty blockers, and surgery into a single category? How does that address your claim that puberty blockers cause permanent changes, never mind the extreme changes you insist take place with their use? Anyone with a brain knows surgery is permanent, so that statement is 100% true regardless of whether puberty blockers make a y difference whatsoever. You could replace puberty blockers and hormones with the word "placebo" and it would say exactly the same thing.
"Adverse factors associated with use [of puberty blockers] were changes in body composition, slow growth, decreased height velocity, decreased bone turnover,"
Yes, because those thongs are what happen in puberty and that process is being delayed. You might as well sayb hat people who are growing get taller and people who aren't, don't.
"You need to have a mature penis and testicles to construct an artificial vagina. You need to have a mature clitoris and labia majora to construct an artificial penis."
And, follow me here, those changes will happen as soon as puberty blockers are stopped. Again your argument boils down to "while this temporary pause in development occurs, sexual organs don't develop". Duh. Puberty blockers ... block puberty. As soo as you stop taking them, they ... stop blocking puberty.
Unless you want to claim that puberty blockers block puberty forever? I wouldn't if I were you. It would make you look even more delusionally interventionist than you already do.
"It is your error to believe that these are questions of science when they are actually questions of ethics."
You are the one making scientific declarations (misleading ones, at that) about puberty blockers, their permanency, sexual side effects resulting from there use, and a whole host of "reasons" that it does permanent damage to kids who use them.
It is a question of ethics. And as of now, the ethical determination is that it is acceptable. It is the parents and the medical team that gets to make those choices, not politicians, not the government, and not you. Unless your support for government intervention is "if we don't know enough for absolutely everyone to be comfortable, government should intervene", yiu are on the wrong side of the use of government force on this issue.
"Puberty blockers" don't freeze a body in time. Preadolescence is a developmental stage in humans during which there are large changes. A puberty blocker extends the time those changes happen. That is their medical use: to transform an abnormally short preadolescence into a normal preadolescence, to prevent the consequences of an abnormal duration of preadolescence. You want to use them to transform a normal preadolescence into an abnormally long preadolescence, and that has permanent consequences.
Yes, because people who choose these drugs and procedures need to know how damaging they are, and they need to know that they are ineffective at treating the mental illness they are supposed to treat.
What isn't ethically acceptable is that people like you keep misrepresenting those procedures, either out of scientific ignorance or because you are deliberately lying.
"You want to use them to transform a normal preadolescence into an abnormally long preadolescence, and that has permanent consequences."
First off, I don't want to use them to do anything. I'm not interested in transitioning and I don't have any kids, so I don't have any use for them.
And I see we have gone from "cause permanent changes and side effects" to "an abnormally long preadolescence", which you claim (with no evidence) "has permanent consequences".
You are conflating the assumption that puberty after puberty blockers is *different* than puberty without puberty blockers and that somehow counts as "permanent side effects". With the onference that it is bad, again without evidence.
But since puberty happens differently for everyone that is literally unprovable. The only way you could prove it was changed is if you knew how it would have progressed without puberty blockers and compared that to how it progressed with puberty blockers. Which is impossible without a time machine and a willing test subject.
"Yes, because people who choose these drugs and procedures need to know how damaging they are"
You have yet to show any evidence that they are damaging at all. Your position consists of "puberty blockers delay puberty, which makes it different than it would have been and that is the same as permanent, damaging side effects". That isn't a rational argument, but bitb you and Vernon have made it. Can I assume it is some talking point from a cultural conservative organization or are you both illogical in the exact same way?
Don't forget your earlier claim that, "Most will never be capable of having an orgasm or normal sexual function.". That is pure bullshit. It wouldn't even be accurate if you said "a few", never mind "most".
So what are these 'damaging" and "permanent" side effects? Is it merely that puberty will proceed differently with puberty blockers than without? Because that is just different, not damaging or permanent.
I'm certain that the best place for people to get accurate medical information is from a doctor, which is what people considering transitioning do. Clearly no one should listen to you and your "different is the same as bad" assessment and your completely untrue assertions about the effect of puberty blockers on sexual function.
"people like you keep misrepresenting those procedures"
Funny, since I'm not the one that claims transitioning is surgical and permenant, causes loss of sexual function in most patients, has damaging (just take your word for it) and permanent side effects (just take your word for it).
Finally, I will quote from the article that you pulled one of your two quotes from: "If an adolescent child decides to stop taking GnRH analogues, puberty will resume and the normal progression of the physical and emotional changes of puberty will continue." So you were even wrong about that and it was in an article that you quoted.
You claim there are detrimental and permanent impacts from puberty blockers, but have yet to provide any credible proof. Certainly not anywhere near the amount of proof necessary to strip medical decision-making from parents and shift it to the government. Unless you have some actual evidence or facts to back up your belief in the calamitous and irreversible impact of social and hormonal transitioning?
We know what normal onset of puberty looks like and when it needs to happen. We also know the consequences of premature and delayed puberty because those disease states occur naturally and we used to be unable to treat it.
That's why we treat premature puberty with puberty blockers and delayed puberty with hormones.
If you give puberty blockers to a healthy adolescent, you induce the disease state of delayed puberty.
The usual consequences of delayed puberty: Medline
"We know what normal onset of puberty looks like and when it needs to happen. "
Roughly, but certainly not at an individual level, which is what this is. When does puberty start? Anywhere from about 12-15. Can it start before that? Yes. Can it start after that? Yes. Is someone who starts puberty at 12 better off than someone who starts at 15? No.
You're trying to make the delayed onset of puberty into something dangerous. It isn't.
From your own link:
"When puberty is delayed:
Testicles are smaller than 1 inch by age 14
Penis is small and immature by age 13
There is very little body hair or almost none by age 15
Voice remains high-pitched
Body stays short and thin
Fat deposits may occur around the hips, pelvis, abdomen, and breasts
Delayed puberty may also cause stress in the child."
Funny, none of those are permanent. So hiw dangerous is it? Let's look under "Prognosis"
"Delayed puberty that runs in the family will resolve itself. Treatment with sex hormones can trigger puberty. Hormones can also be given if needed to improve fertility."
That's it. I'm missing the part where they talk about the long-term, permanent dangers of delayed puberty (in this case, due to puberty blockers.
So giving hormones can safely be done and it often resolves itself but, according to you, giving hormones and puberty blockers to trans kids is horrifically dangerous.
Let's look it up, then: https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#safety
Are Puberty Blockers Reversible?
What’s the short answer?
Yes, the effects of puberty blockers are reversible. This is true whether the medication is being used to treat precocious puberty or as part of gender affirming care.
When a person stops taking puberty blockers, their body will resume puberty exactly as it would have had they never taken the medication, says Jennifer Osipoff, MD, a pediatric endocrinologist at Stony Brook Children’s Hospital in New York.
"Are puberty blockers safe?
Yes. Puberty blockers are widely considered to be safe.
None of the medications used to block puberty have been recognized by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as an official treatment for gender dysphoria.
But the FDA has declared that these medications are safe when used as prescribed.
The FDA approved the first puberty-blocking medication — a GnRH analog drug called Lupron — in 1993 to treat precocious puberty."
So there don't seem to be many, if any, side effects. And remind me again, why is that politicians and the government should be making the risk/reward decisions about medical care rather than the people themselves and their medical providers?
You listed the symptoms; you need to look at the complications:
The longer you block puberty, the worse it gets. Can you safely delay puberty by six months or a year? Probably. Can you do for five years? Probably not.
She pushes these treatments, so of course she thinks they are safe.
So, we have:
- puberty blockers can cause permanent damage, with the risk increasing the longer they are used
- puberty blockers have never been proven to be effective for treating gender dysphoria
In fact, it is completely unclear by what mechanism puberty blockers would even help with gender dysphoria, since any sex change surgery can only happen after the individual has gone through puberty anyway.
“You have yet to show any evidence that they are damaging at all.”
Here’s a start:
https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389
-
https://wng.org/roundups/doctors-puberty-blockers-are-a-dangerous-experiment-1617229035
-
https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/07/28/fda-admits-puberty-blockers-can-cause-serious-harm-to-children-n485815
https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/
"I fully acknowledge gender-affirming mastectomies are being done on girls under 18. I have never said otherwise. I think it is wrong for such surgeries to be done."
"Which doesn’t actually ever happen. No doctor in the US performs genital-altering surgery on anyone under 18."
Well, which is it?
He thinks if he splits the hairs enough, his argument isn't actually refuted.
You are playing games. By "genitals", I was clearly not including breasts.
It's a meaningless distinction.
It's also a qualifier he started using after he realized his initial claim that such surgeries weren't done at all was, in fact, an easily disproveable lie.
One might wonder why he's so invested in splitting these hairs.
Even more here, Mike.
https://www.medicaldaily.com/gender-reassignment-surgery-now-available-oregon-minors-without-parental-consent-342670
In Oregon, a controversial new law has been in place since the beginning of 2015 that has left residents of the seemingly forward-thinking state stunned.
The age of medical consent in Oregon is 15, but how far that consent goes depends on the topic. At 15, teens in Oregon are able to, without their parent’s consent, have sex, receive birth control, take a pregnancy test, and get an abortion. Conversely, according to an article published by IJ Review, 15-year-olds are unable to smoke cigarettes or marijuana, drive alone, send or receive sexts, vote, work more than 18 hours a week, drink, eat unhealthy foods at school, get tattoos, administer aspirin at school or use a tanning bed.
Keep on simping for the child genital mutilation advocates.
I am "simping" to sticking to facts.
Are you against sticking to truth?
You change your tune & I'll change mine.
Fact: you're born either male or female, and you can't change that.
Fact: exceptions to that biological reality are extremely rare.
Fact: transgender individuals make up less that one percent of the general population.
Fact: the uptick in "gender dysphoria" in recent years exists primarily among adolescent, white girls with one or more additional mental health issues, and many are on the autism spectrum.
Fact: there is a growing body of research that indicates that "gender affirming care" does not reduce suicidality among these kids- primarily girls- who suddenly identify as transgender.
Fact: "gender affirming care" leads to permanent, irreversible side effects, including infertility, bone loss, hair loss, depression and anxiety, weight gain, inderdeveloped reproductive organs, reproductive tissue damage, sexual dysfunction, among many others, which lead to a lifetime of medical treatments and pharmaceuticals.
Fact: there are zero long-term studies on adolescent transitioners and therefore no evidence based standards of care.
Fact: due to the lack of research, several European countries have imposed bans of gender affirming care and adopted therapy and "watchful waiting" approaches to gender dysphoria.
Fact: they did this because it is becoming far clearer that anywhere between 20% to 90% (depending on which study you're looking at) of adolescent transitioners desist in adulthood.
Arguing about whether hositpals chop off teenagers' body parts is not "sticking to facts." The actual facts are listed above.
Anything else is just throwing chaff to distract from the facts.
https://twitter.com/JebraFaushay/status/1614388052155047937
Don't disagree with you on any of your facts.
Which leads to a question for you. If you have all these facts on your side, why pad your facts with the untruth that children in the US under 18 can receive gender-affiriming hysterectomies and penis surgery? Why water down your high-quality arguments with a weak one, that your debate opponents can focus on to discredit you?
How is this different than, say, gun control advocates puffing up their side in the debates by including suicides in gun violence statistics, or including gang violence in mass shooting statistics? Or environmental advocates claiming every bad storm is proof of global warming?
Gun rights are based on the second amendment of the constitution. There is no question that Americans have a fundamental right to own firearms. Transsexualism is not based on any established biological or medical science. It’s on the order of phrenology, but horrifically malignant.
See the difference?
Like most other medical procedure, with only a few specific exceptions, the Constitution protects your right to make medical decisions for yourself or, if you are a parent, for your children.
I don't understand how people who insist that parents have the right to make decisions for their children without government interference can claim that their beliefs about trans medical care (specifically puberty blockers) should overrule the parents of the child seeking care. It is rank hypocrisy, which is an unfortunate tendency of cultural conservatives.
I've never heard from anyone, until you, who asserts that parents have unlimited rights to do as they wish with their children, as if they were livestock. But you keep whipping that straw man till it's dust.
I didn't make that claim. I am saying that parents get to make medical decisions for their children. But in this specific case the same people who caterwaul that acknowledging gay and trans people in schools is something parents have the right to decide are the same people who want to deny a parent the right to make medical decisions for their child.
It's not a strawman, it's just another example of the hypocrisy of the cultural conservative world.
None of us have the right to obtain any medical procedure we want for ourselves or our children. There is no such constitutional right. States don't guarantee that right. You can't have a doctor amputate your or your kid's arm because you want to.
"None of us have the right to obtain any medical procedure we want for ourselves or our children."
And I never said we did.
"You can’t have a doctor amputate your or your kid’s arm because you want to."
True. And completely unconnected to the discussion at hand. We're talking about puberty blockers.
Really? Where does the Constitution protect that right?
Most people find it in the right to privacy or bodily autonomy, which some derive from the Fourth and some derive from the Ninth. I think there may be another argument, but for me the right to bodily autonomy is reasonably found in the Ninth and the obligation of care that a parent has would cover their right to make those decisions for their children.
If you don't think parents have the right to make medical decisions for their children, who does? They are minors so they can't do it themselves. So who is it thay makes medical decisions for children?
How does prohibiting doctors from performing certain medical procedures affect your privacy? How does it invade your bodily autonomy?
Nobody is stopping parents from making medical decisions. But medical decisions are always limited to legal medical procedures, for everybody. And the legality of medical procedures is not decided by parents but by law. A doctor is not permitted to amputate your arm for cosmetic or mental health reasons, and the same principle ought to apply to sex organs.
In the Idaho legislature, full hypocrisy is on display. The hardcore Republicans are trying to block gender-affirming treatments while protecting the right of parents to treat their kids with faith healing — which has led to several deaths.
I fail to see the problem. You have the right not to seek medical treatment, but if you seek medical treatment, you are limited to approved procedures. That’s always been the standard.
Furthermore, transgender related procedures aren’t treatments for anything, they are cosmetic surgery.
"Furthermore, transgender related procedures aren’t treatments for anything, they are cosmetic surgery."
Well that settles it. If you say so, then it must be the absolute, unimpeachable truth. Just like all the things you've claimed about puberty blockers ... oh. That was all wrong. So maybe your opinion is just yours and should apply only to you and not be broadly applied to society at large? Maybe?
No, I'm stating a fact: those procedures have never been shown to be safe and effective for the treatment of any disease.
No it wasn't. You simply confused "symptoms" with "complications".
We wouldn't be talking if it were just my opinion. We are talking because European nations and US states are actually banning these procedures. I'm merely explaining to you why.
It’s not a strawman, it’s just another example of the hypocrisy...
It's not an example of anyone's "hypocrisy", since there is no one who claims that parents have unlimited rights concerning their treatment of their children.
And no one here is claiming that, either. But they do, as a general rule, have the right to make medical decisions for their children, right? Or do you disagree with that?
"Medical decisions" means that they may select among the legal, safe, and effective medical procedures their doctor offers them, or choose not to treat their child.
If lawmakers decide that sex change surgery or chemical castration of minors is illegal, then choosing such a procedure is not a "medical decision".
"Arguing about whether hositpals chop off teenagers’ body parts is not “sticking to facts.” The actual facts are listed above.
Anything else is just throwing chaff to distract from the facts."
So, screw the facts, eh? I'm a bad person because I point out that something that keeps getting repeated here is not actually true.
You keep pointing out it isn't true after repeatedly being shown that it is true. That's called "trolling".
Boston
AND
National (D.C.)
AND
St. Louis
AND
(many others?)
It's not ONE place that's gone rogue, Mike. It's an entire industry.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/boston-childrens-hospital-offering-gender-affirming-hysterectomies-to-kids-who-cant-even-drink-legally
Why do keep passing off the same debunked information? Yesm, the video linked to in this article does talk about gender-affirming hysterectomies (in creepily cheerful tones), but it is a lie that the video in any way confirms that those hysterectomies have been performed on anyone under 18.
The lie is constructed by attaching, without good reason, a general statement that the hospital provides treatments for people 0 - 21 years of age with the surgery described in the video. That's not even up to Geraldo Rivera's standards for journalism.
If you have all of the much more solid facts that Cronut listed above on your side, why do you feel the need to keep throwing in an additional untruth:
https://reason.com/2023/02/13/north-americas-ufo-weekend/?comments=true#comment-9923953
It just weakens your cause to lie.
'Debunked' used to mean 'factually disproven' but these days, leftists use it to mean 'facts we don't like'.
Was there a particular fact or set of facts that you disagreed with in the comment you linked, which you would like to refute?
Or are you still saying that it's 'debunked' that these things are happening at more than one place? We have evidence of at least 3 in specific, and can probably find more if that's required. How many do we need until it's a disturbing trend?
"Was there a particular fact or set of facts that you disagreed with in the comment you linked, which you would like to refute?"
Please go back and re-read the comment I linked and my response. I didn't disagree with any of Cronut's list of facts.
You are in such a hurry to disagree with me, place so much importance on owning me, you are not paying any attention to what I'm actually saying.
You said surgeries were not happening. That was a lie. Then, you changed it to very specific surgeries not happening. Turns out that wasn't true either.
Now, you're saying that it's only happening to 18+ patients, even though you also theoretically agree that perhaps 21+ is a better age floor? But it turns out that was also kind of false, since it was also happening with 15 - 17 year old patients. You claim the 'lie' in the linked article is that they weren't specific enough, leaving it open to 0 - 21 years of age, when it is only 18+, according to the re-worked hospital website you cite, after they got caught. It is in fact shown to to be 15+ in some cases and 17+ in others. Documented.
It is also shown to be factual that children as young as 11 are being counseled and prescribed 'puberty-blocking' drugs - OFF LABEL, mind you - with a documented lack of informed understanding of the potential (or in most cases, predictable) PERMANENT and life-changing, damaging side effects. How prescribing a prostate cancer fighting drug to a 14-year-old girl, which effectively sterilizes her for life, and causes severe damage to the uterus and vaginal walls, is somehow in a different category because they didn't use a knife, is beyond me. They are both irreparable harm done to young people.
“ You said surgeries were not happening. That was a lie. Then, you changed it to very specific surgeries not happening.”
That’s just a patently false retelling. I have never, ever claimed that people under 18 cannot obtain a gender-affirming masectomy.
You keep arguing with me about facts I never disagreed about.
“which effectively sterilizes her for life”
No it doesn’t. The things you moral-panic-loving cultural conservatives will swallow without any skepticism is mindbogglong.
Start by telling us why the government should be involved in the medical decisions of parents and their children, in consultation with medical and psychological professionals? Because you hate it? That’s not a good reason.
Your position is that people should be banned from making medical decisions for their children. You justify it by using false descriptions like “mutilation”, intentionally misrepresenting what “gender-affirming care” is (no, it isn’t just surgery or puberty blockers), pretending that non-surgical approaches are permanent, pretending that surgery is common, pretending that parents have an agenda beyond their child’s well-being, pretending that the child is making the decisions with no other input, pretending that the medical professionals have an agenda that overwhelms their personal and professional ethics, etc., etc., etc.
This overwrought concern-trolling by people who aren’t involved, don’t know anything about the cases, and refuse to listen to anything that isn’t “it’s wrong and evil” is disgusting.
Pick a side. Either parents have the right to make decisions for their children or they don’t. Legislating away parental rights because you don’t like the decisions some people make is terrible reasoning.
Should parents be denied the right to have guns in the house if they have a child? More kids are killed by parents’ guns than get gender-affirming care. A LOT more. Would that justify government interference?
Should parents be denied the right to homeschool their kids More kids receive terrible educations through homeschooling than receive gender-affirming care. Should the government be allowed to ban homeschooling?
Melatonin and other homeopathic remedies are hormones, just like puberty blockers. Should parents be banned from giving their children hormones?
Where does it stop? You want to ban parents from making specific decisions, but pretend that other, similar situations shouldn't also be scrutinized by the government.
Whether you or I or anyone else disapproves of the decisions others make, when a medical decision is made for children by their parents in consultation with medical and psychological professionals it is a better decision than what some uninformed, self-righteous stranger with an agenda would make.
One is an informed decision made by people who love and care about the patient and know the details of the situation. The other is the ignorant opinion of a biased partisan.
If it’s not your kid, your opinion is unnecessary and irrelevant. It’s not something that politicians should be using the government to interfere with.
So, you would be OK with parents whoring out their children? Or fucking them themselves? We can't draw a line, and it's none of our business, right?
Really? Parents making medical decisions for their kids is now equivelent to prostitution, rape, and incest? Strawman much?
Parents making medical decisions for their kids is now equivelent to prostitution, rape, and incest?
I would say transing a child is arguably worse than raping a child. People can recover from sexual abuse. Doctor-assisted "transitioning" causes irreversible harm.
Slapping the label "medical" on an act does not place it above moral criticism.
"I would say transing a child is arguably worse than raping a child.
Really? You want people to take you seriously and this is what you say?
Because those medical decisions amount to child abuse, eugenics, and mutilation. And as history shows, progressive medical professionals have no qualms at all participating in such child abuse and mutilations and persuading parents and children to undergo such procedures. Yes, many doctors are not good people.
The practice of medicine is a regulated profession in the US and treatments are required to be justified based on objective standards, weighing risks and benefits. We do not permit amputations for body dysmorphia, we do not permit bariatric surgery for anorexics, and we should not permit surgical or chemical castration for gender dysphoria.
If you want to get the state out of medicine altogether and replace government regulations with private mechanisms, that's fine and a reasonable libertarian position. What is not fine is to use the power of the state to eliminate any protection for patients because you favor voluntary castration of the mentally ill.
"Because those medical decisions amount to child abuse, eugenics, and mutilation."
That's your uninformed opinion. There isn't any scientific evidence to support your uninformed opinion, but don't let that stop you.
"And as history shows, progressive medical professionals have no qualms at all participating in such child abuse and mutilations and persuading parents and children to undergo such procedures. "
Of course. They're all in on it. It's a cult.
"Yes, many doctors are not good people."
That's true for any group of people. Well, "some" rather than "many" is accurate. But that doesn't have any relevance to this.
"The practice of medicine is a regulated profession in the US and treatments are required to be justified based on objective standards, weighing risks and benefits."
OK. Why aren't cultural conservatives presenting "objective standards weighing risks and benefits"? Because the politicians are doing things that there is no objective evidence to support.
"chemical castration for gender dysphoria."
Anyone who calls puberty blockers "chemical castration" shouldn't be taken seriously. It's not.
"What is not fine is to use the power of the state to eliminate any protection for patients because you favor voluntary castration of the mentally ill."
You aren't protecting anyone. Parents can protect their kids just fine without your uninformed and unfounded interference.
You believe what you want and live your life that way. But until you have more than rhetoric and propaganda, you need to let people live their lives the way they choose.
It's amazing how opposed to the nanny state you are until you hate what someone else chooses to do with their freedom. You're an ignorant bigot who wants to force people to live by the things you believe to be true, often with no hard evidence. You're a hypocrite.
And that is why the medical field is regulated and the treatments people can obtain are strictly limited.
The way new medical treatments get approved is by people who advocate those medical treatments performing clinical trials and demonstrating a clear benefit over the alternatives. That hasn't been done for treating gender dysphoria in adolescents with puberty blockers or surgery.
That's not how our medical system works.
Have I said anywhere that I want to outlaw transgender surgeries or chemical castration?
I want two things. (1) As long as we have the current regulatory framework, all gender dysphoria related care needs to be subjected to the same approval processes as all other treatments. (2) People shouldn't be able to hide the reality of these medical procedures behind euphemisms like "gender affirmation procedures".
-
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=the+role+of+doctors+in+the+rise+of+nazism&atb=v331-1&ia=web
"And that is why the medical field is regulated and the treatments people can obtain are strictly limited."
Yes, but medical regulation involves evidence before something is banned. This is purely political, no actual facts required. Do you really think, "we don't know enough" is a valid justification for governmental action? Because if so, that's a huge can of worms you're opening up.
"The way new medical treatments get approved is by people who advocate those medical treatments performing clinical trials"
No, that's how new drugs get approved. There are no new medical treatments used for trans care. Puberty blockers have been around for decades. Ditto for hormone therapy. Even top and bottom transition surgery has been around for years. There is nothing in any level of transitioning (social, medicinal, or surgical) that is a new procedure or medication. So what, exactly needs to be studied if everything has already been studied for years?
"That’s not how our medical system works."
That's exactly how out medical system works. Trans care is completely comprised if decades-old medical procedures and medications. All of the facts support it being safe and effective, whether the transition is social, medicinal/hormonal, or surgical. So what are the arguments (real, factual arguments, not claiming without a shred of evidence that "many people" using puberty blockers have their sexual function destroyed or calling it "chemical castration") in favor of government coersion?
"I want two things. (1) As long as we have the current regulatory framework, all gender dysphoria related care needs to be subjected to the same approval processes as all other treatments."
Done. There isn't a single new medication or procedure involved in trans medical procedure. They aren't even being used in a different way. Puberty blockers are being used as puberty blockers, for example. Already studied and approved.
"(2) People shouldn’t be able to hide the reality of these medical procedures behind euphemisms like “gender affirmation procedures"
Everyone knows what gender affirming procedures are. It's not like people are confused by what those words mean, no matter how hard cultural conservatives try to make people believe it's surgery and nothing else.
As for what it's called, you should take it up with the Speech Police. In America, of course, you aren't allowed to use words and phrases that haven't been approved by the government. If you do, you get thrown in jail.
So one thing you want is already done and one is censorship and will never happen. I guess making an impossible standard really is the go-to dishonesty in the cultcon playbook.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=the+role+of+doctors+in+the+rise+of+nazism&atb=v331-1&ia=web
Vernon, you win! Godwin’s Law is confirmed yet again.
Would you like to double down and directly accuse doctors of being Nazis?
To the contrary: medical regulation in the US and Europe requires proving that a treatment is safe and effective before it is permitted.
See his problem isn't that these places market that they will perform these surgeries to under 18-year-olds, its that just because they offer it we have no account of them actually performing them. I mean, sure, I guess we should demand release of underage patient medical records just to give Mike the 'PROOF' that he requests. To be nitpicking the point that although the hospitals are gladly stating they are willing to perform these procedures but nobody has taken them up (or none of the actual physicians will prescribe/perform them) I am not really sure what the point of his argument is other than to distract/deflect.
This is what he does.
His only purpose is to try and mire the argument with pointless details that don't change the fact that the premise is flawed. None of his distractions change that fact.
He's doing exactly what I said: throwing chaff.
Mike’s #5 go to shitpost is chaff & redirect.
Huh? I agreed with every one of the facts you listed above. How is that “miring” anything?
“ See his problem isn’t that these places market that they will perform these surgeries to under 18-year-olds”
This is an excellent example of repeating false information. They don’t market these surgeries to under 18 year olds. Go look at their website — there are statements in bold type that genital surgeries are only done for patients 18 and over.
Why lie about facts?
“ we have no account of them actually performing them”
Wow, you just said the same thing I’ve been saying in your own words, yet you are still saying I’m lying about something.
Sex change surgeon Dr. Marcy Bowers admits doing vaginoplasty on 16-year-olds in the documentary "What Is A Woman". Go to 58:46 in the film.
I've also informed you about doctors "transitioning" boys as a "treatment" for genital injuries or deformities. Yet, you continue to lie that this doesn't happen.
He refuses to believe you, therefore it is ‘debunked’…… somehow.
Only the elites seem to love globalism.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/12/the-retreat-from-globalism/
In the wake of liberal globalism’s failings, a nationalist tide is rising today, not only in China and Russia but also throughout the West. It is a dynamic eerily similar to 100 years ago, when war, pandemic and economic insecurity brought national tensions to the surface. Yet today’s undoubted turn against globalism need not herald a return to the dark days of aggressive nationalism. Instead, we are seeing the rise of a new community-based and self-governing model of localism.
Yes, we know.
You NatCons hate free-trade libertarian globalism.
There's a difference between free trade and the WEF dictatorial shit you seem to be in favor of.
Globalism is the polar opposite of free-trade and it's anti-libertarian.
You're trying to conflate Globalism with global trade and hope that nobody notices. You're so tricky, Shrike.
The current globalism is about as far from "free trade" or "libertarian" as you can be.
I cant imagine being so stupid to think that the WEF and other globalist agendas are "free trade libertarian" in any way.
Maybe shaming isn't quite so bad.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/02/13/bring-back-kink-shaming/
The real rebel today is not Sam Smith – it’s Richard Madeley. It’s those of us who think they / them is bullshit, and that people with penises are men, and that women should have the right to create their own spaces without worrying that some big lump in a wig like Eddie Izzard or Sam Smith will pop in for a wee or whatever. I see your Satanism-lite and latex get-up – worn at an awards ceremony sponsored by Mastercard! – and raise you our defence of reason, science and women’s rights.
U.S. officials can't even say exactly what these objects are.
Cant' or won't?
But enough about all those classified stashes.
They "can't" in the sense that the Biden administration would punish them if they revealed that they are harmless weather balloons, shot down to distract from the Biden administration's failure to protect against Chinese spy balloons and other problems.
Conspiracy mindset: Seymore Hersh releases his potential bombshell about the US committing an act of war against Russia and our European allies. As a distraction, there's suddenly a ton of news stories about Chinese spy balloons and the military starts shooting down a bunch of things. "Don't look at this foreign entity and what we're doing here, look over here!"
I don't know if there's any truth to that idea, just throwing it out there.
They didn’t conjure up a distraction for any of the Twitter files revelations. They simply had a media blackout. It’s possible that this is a response to the Hersh report, but my money is on the regime trying to live down the embarrassment of the Chinese spy balloon story by diluting it in a wave of similar “unidentified object” stories.
“I don’t know if there’s any truth to that idea, just throwing it out there.”
There’s a word for that: insinuating
That's not what that word means. Insinuating is when you imply something without outright stating it. I'm outright stating that this is may be a distraction tactic, just without a shred of evidence.
The word you're looking for it "speculation." It's pure speculation based on nothing except conspiratorial thinking and connection between two military-related stories in a near timeframe.
Conspiricy is only 2 weeks behind reality these days
Some places still take two years to report it.
I get why this might be considered, but honestly, does anyone really give a shit what Sy Hersh is putting out there anymore besides a few true-believing Trotskyites at sites like Counterpunch, or alt-left journos like Greenwald and Taibbi? He became persona non grata when he started being a thorn in Obama's side after the Bin Laden raid. Even if the report is 100% true, it's not going to cause any sense of outrage or surprise because the media would portray it as being completely justified. It's basically the equivalent of Operation Farm Gate.
"So it's possible that we're not suddenly experiencing more unidentified objects over U.S. airspace; we're just paying more attention to them."
It is also possible that Biden's administration need another diversion from the border, the economy, the budget, Hunter, etc, etc.
Or the unauthorized bombing of a gas pipeline that was partially owned by our allies, destroying a major tool of negotiation and peaceful cooperation with Russia?
Eagles fans march on Philadelphia City Hall as they scale lampposts, chant 'f*** the Chiefs' and face down with cops as they're sprayed with tear gas
Probably outside agitators.
Mostly peaceful football riots
That's just how "those people" behave. And by "those people," I'm talking about Philadelphia fans. The Eagles in particular, but the Flyers and Phillies fans can be just as bad.
Looks to be a mere handful of fans. "Riot" didn't even make the local news. Those disappointed have to realize eventually that "It's a Philly Thing" actually means "Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory."
It must suck to live in Philadelphia. No matter who wins the Super Bowl, Eagles fans will riot.
Well, they have been known to boo Santa Claus there.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2020/12/penn-football-franklin-field-eagles-santa
Eagles fans, and for that matter, all Philadelphia sports fans, have a long reputation for being exceptionally hostile, with plenty of individual instances to show for it. The most notorious is arguably the time that they booed Santa Claus, an event which occurred at Penn’s own Franklin Field, where the Eagles played from 1958-1970.
And threw snowballs at St. Nick.
Eagles fans? Oh no….Somebody’s going to hurt someone before the night is through….
Oh wait, this is football? Psha, whatevs!
So, some kind of living, balloon-like organism? These are most likely inanimate objects, not entities.
Please give the MSM the rest of today to come up with a story about how these increased UFO sightings are Trump's fault.
It's already starting. This has been going on for years now but we're just now noticing it. It's going to transition to "This started after Trump was elected but he made us ignore them."
Is that why he orchestrated his own impeachment?
Cut them some slack. J-school graduates come from the same deficient school system as everyone else.
You don't know how that balloon identifies itself. Don't assume its nouns.
Its pronouns are Dirigible/Zeppelin.
Oh, the humanity!
Too soon, man.
sky jelly fish that pop in and out of our universe and we are killing them willy nilly. I call on PETA to protect the sky jellyfish that just happen to look like balloons, clearly they are an endangered form of life
"So, some kind of living, balloon-like organism? "
I see it now, it was right in front of our faces. These things aren't from China, they're from Japan! https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Drifloon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)
Don't you want to believe? The truth is out there.
The school board of Madison County, Virginia, recently banned The Handmaid's Tale from high school library shelves.
"Banned" banned or "not providing taxpayer-subsidized copies" banned?
They took a list from Focus on the Family and just straight up implemented it. Whether the book was already on the shelf I don’t know but presumably it was. But its now banned. Along with these:
The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky Shatter Me series of 6 books by Tahereh Mafi (Defy Me, Ignite Me, Restore Me, Shatter Me, Imagine Me, Unravel Me) Tar Baby by Toni Morrison The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison Sula by Toni Morrison Love by Toni Morrison The Tale of the Body Thief by Anne Rice Interview with the Vampire by Anne Rice Snow Falling on Cedars by David Guterson Empire of Storms by Sarah Maas Bag of Bones by Stephen King 11/22/63: A Novel by Stephen King It by Stephen King Furyborn by Claire Legrand
Ostensibly it was for banning sexual books. But I think with the addition of Anne Rice and Stephen King they just think the books are demonic or something? Who knows what Focus on the Family actually believes. What is important here is not that the books are banned or put on a ban list; its that the public school board took a list straight from a Christian advocacy group and implemented that group’s recommendations of what to ban without input from the students or staff (based on what I read). That is the story here. Not how the books on the ban list were paid for. Every book in a school library was paid for with taxpayer money (unless donated) because that is how school libraries work.
Buy a box of commas.
He needs to buy a clue while he's at it.
I cut and pasted the list of banned books from Focus on the Family from the link provided in the story linked to by Reason. It was in list form when copied and then pasted. It appeared in my comment in list form. After hitting enter, the list became a paragraph. BUT MOST IMPORANTLY, i am too lazy to fix it.
The books are readily discernible with a little effort. Having read the two Anne Rice books...they are not very sexual at all. Just vampire tropes. Not sure why Focus on the Family got their panties in a bunch over them. Or why the school board felt compelled to trust Focus on the Family's list as definitive proof of anything.
"...BUT MOST IMPORANTLY, i am too lazy to fix it..."
In which case, fuck off and die; I'm too intelligent to waste time with shits like you.
Do you have a cite for the allegation that they took a list from Focus on the Family? I'd like to read it.
The list came from following the link posted above. Which is the author's take on what happened to her book with speculation as to why. Her article links to the list Focus on the Family provided and presumably matches the same list the school board here proposed then voted to ban from the school library. Assuming all the books banned are the same books as the Focus on the Family list (which is surprisingly not that long) its not hard to deduce where the list came from. Or maybe the school board members themselves indicated they got the list from the religious organization.
You're right. I was certain that you were bullshitting. You weren't. I apologize.
Though they didn't remove all the 26 titles they had on the FOTF list, the original impetus came from a member who had read the list.
That said, I've read most of the titles on the list and enjoyed some of them, but they're terribly inappropriate for schoolchildren. I think even their authors would agree.
"The Handmaid’s Tale" by Margaret Atwood
"The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian" by Sherman Alexie
"The Perks of Being a Wallflower" by Stephen Chbosky
"Shatter Me" series of 6 books by Tahereh Mafi (Defy Me, Ignite "Me, Restore Me, Shatter Me, Imagine Me, Unravel Me)
"Tar Baby" by Toni Morrison
"The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison
"Sula" by Toni Morrison
"Love" by Toni Morrison
"The Tale of the Body Thief" by Anne Rice
"Interview with the Vampire" by Anne Rice
"Snow Falling on Cedars" by David Guterson
"Empire of Storms" by Sarah Maas
"Bag of Bones" by Stephen King
"11/22/63: A Novel" by Stephen King
"It" by Stephen King
"Furyborn" by Claire Legrand
What needs to be clear here is that these books weren't "banned", they were removed from a school library. Which in my opinion was the right decision.
They haven't banned these yet?:
"Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" Hunter S. Thompson
" Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail of '76" Hunter S. Thompson
"The Great Shark Hunt" Hunter S. Thompson
"they’re terribly inappropriate for schoolchildren"
They were removed from high schools. No one is putting "A Handmaids Tale" in an elementary school.
Good. It’s garbage propaganda. If you want to read it, buy it yourself.
Don't tell that to Amy Coney Barrett on the US SUP CT. She lived that life. And she makes interesting commencement speeches at Notre Dame law school about what a lawyer's highest calling is (hint: it ain't serving up justice! unless its dipped in Jesus juice first). These fucking Christians man. From focus on the family, to the mega church sell outs...to the Jerry Falwell's of the world...to Supreme Court justices... there is something fundamentally wrong with them.
From Hitler to Stalin to Marx to Pol Pot to Castro to Che, there is something fundamentally wrong with atheists.
Atwood does not describe a Christian society.
And the idea that a highly accomplished female academic and judge is committed to creating a totalitarian misogynistic regime is risible.
https://madrapp.com/madison-county-school-board-bans-books-from-high-school-library-p4501-221.htm
Why should students have a say in what parents deem inappropriate?
And again, these books aren't "banned". A student can still acquire the book at a public library, from a bookstore, or online. The fact that you're not given something on the taxpayer's dime does not make it "banned."
So if the taxpayers already spent the money for the books and now the school can't display them or rent them out; what do you do with the now verboten books?
Donate them to the local library where the kids can go and check them out right after leaving school?? BAN EVASION SUCCESSFUL What a waste of time for everybody.
They weren't banned to begin with, and a school library not stocking Hustler even though kids can get online porn, isn't a waste of time.
None of those books are anything like Hustler. Can you be any more dishonest?
And yes, if shool libraries aren't allowed to have them, they are banned from schools. The fact that you can get them another way doesn't change that reality. Sanctimonious cultural conservatives should be forced to explain, in detail, what is wrong with each book before it can be considered for a ban. None of the books on that list are inappropriate for high schoolers.
I fail to see the educational value in any of those books, so why should taxpayers stock school libraries with them?
There are some excellent books in there.
This may come as a shock to you, but there is educational value in more than just the Bible and Emily Post.
US K-12 schools fail to teach reading, writing, math, and science to many kids. That is what they need to focus on them.
Once they do that adequately, we can talk about how to extend the curriculum to literature. Until then, none of these books have a place in the curriculum.
Yes, American students graduate without being able to read, write, and do math or science. Literature is only for college.
Do you actually believe that literature has no place in high school curricula?
Sure. But students at best have time for a few dozen books, and Atwood's book doesn't even come close to making the list.
If you want literature related to dystopias and totalitarianism, they should read 1984, Brave New World, and Gulag Archipelago, not an ignorant hack like Atwood.
There guys don't see Christo-Fascism as a threat to liberty.
#LarryFlyntFreedomFighterRIP
Maybe because "windycityattorney" was lying about them adopting a list?
https://madrapp.com/madison-county-school-board-bans-books-from-high-school-library-p4501-221.htm
From your link:
Are these books available to check out in Madison County?
Yes.
When Wingate first proposed removing the books from the high school library, the Madison County Public Library confirmed it had the entire 26 books first proposed to be banned.
Now, with the revised list of 21 books, the county library – based on the library’s online catalog search option –has all but Furyborn available.
Friday, a library spokersperson said they have ordered Furyborn. It will arrive later this month and will be available for circulation.
Take note that it very specifically says "high school library", not the system. These books are still very much available for check out at the main library branches.
Sure, just ban books from educational buildings. That would mean thatbthey also would be banned from being included in curricula, yes? But if they can get them somewhere else, that somehow makes it OK to let a fanatic Christian organization determine the contents of high school libraries?
So much for exploring and growing as a person in high school. Nothing even vaguely challenging in content or theme can be allowed to touch high schoolers.
Don't let high schoolers be exposed to controversial material, either. They shouldn't be exposed to anything that isn't black-and-white or goodness-and-sweetness-and-light.
Why don't yiu just wrap them in intellectual bubble wrap and feed them pablum?
They aren't part of the curriculum.
Furthermore, teachers fail to even teach the curriculum as is, so they don't have time to add additional reading.
There have been times in my high school when i was there ...where the English teacher would tell us to get a book out of the school library and do a written report on it. And now this may come as a shock to you; but we got to actually pick the book we wanted to do the report on.
I chose Lord of the Flies. A book that I have since been made aware is also on some ban lists. Probably because "lord" is in the title since most christian fundie morons I am familiar with don't actually read books for pleasure. They parrot bullshit from church leaders who have no desire for their flock to be educated in the ways of the world. They want sheep they can control and siphon money from.
"They aren’t part of the curriculum."
Well then, your schools are substandard. Toni Morrison is a staple of high achool literature classes and as I mentioned before, A Handmaid's Tale was taught to me in high school. So was 1984, Brave New World, and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. It's almost like themes of the dangers of government totalitarianism was front and center in my education. Can you believe that?
A lot of the books the God Squadders at FotF hate are either part of or relevant to high school literature classes.
"Furthermore, teachers fail to even teach the curriculum as is, so they don’t have time to add additional reading."
They do in my area. Obviously your schools just suck. According to you they don't have time for any more than reading, writing, math, and science (although I'm a little confused how you teach people to read without books). You should probably move to a better school district if you have kids.
I certainly believe it. I've experienced it first hand. Socialists love to do this as part of government propaganda and indoctrination. Of course, all ideologies other than their own are the totalitarian ones.
US schools suck on average, as shown by international evaluations and comparisons.
Many of the kids can't read at grade level. The ones that can are fed a diet of books that complement the left wing indoctrination all of them receive.
That's from the "let them eat cake" approach to school policy.
Also, someone who simps for an actual Nazi party member should probably think before using the word "fascist".
Remember, turd lies; It's what turd does.
Tar Baby by Toni Morrison
The Tales of Uncle Remus are still available, though, right?
At least the Mr, Mike version, from ‘Least Loved Bedtime Tales’.
The Pediatic-Gender Industrial Complex (PGIC).
https://nypost.com/2023/02/12/end-the-horrors-of-the-pediatric-gender-industrial-complex-now/
Kudos to The Free Press and whistleblower Jamie Reed for exposing the horrors of the pediatric gender industry.
Reed — a leftist and self-identified queer woman married to a trans man — worked for years as a case manager at The Washington University Transgender Center at St. Louis Children’s Hospital. She took the job to help serve a marginalized group. But what happened on the job defies explanation, and violates the major tenet of the Hippocratic Oath: First do no harm.
We need more of this. Good on her for speaking up and refusing to continue to be part of the problem.
Remember, Mike Laursen said this isn't happening, and will bend over backwards to make up whatever sophistry he can to claim that it isn't.
I'm wondering if her article might prompt some laws about clinics needing to keep track of how many of their patients end up detransitioning later. In up in the air on if I'd support such laws or not. Failure rates seem like one of those things that should have been already mandated, but I've got a knee hero reaction against there ought to be a law reactions.
I’m wondering if her article might prompt some laws about clinics needing to keep track of how many of their patients end up detransitioning later.
That needs to be a minimum requirement if "after care" is an actual practice, instead of a tool in the service of a political agenda and a money-printing exercise. They won't do it voluntarily, because these people are Lysenkoist cult recruiters, not doctors. They have as much credibility in this instance as phrenologists.
Also, right now there is very little data or information out there about people who de-transition because 1) transgender promotion just became a social contagion in the last five years or so, so it's still fairly new, and 2) the doctors don't have the incentive to track this because the patients typically just stop showing up to their appointments, and also because of their political activism.
The future, and why the Dems have DSDS.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/12/florida-gov-ron-desantis-is-the-gops-sunshining-future/
The president is a liability who may not make it to the end of this term, let alone be in any shape for an encore. His heir apparent, Kamala Harris, is unelectable, mainly due to the fact that whenever she is seen in public her speeches are so vacuous and punctuated by weird cackles that she seems high. But because she is a “woman of color,” then good luck pushing her aside.
The standout best is the Generation X governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, who has shown what can be achieved in a short time by a good Republican administration with courage, competence and a moral compass.
"His heir apparent, Kamala Harris, is unelectable"
If Harris is at the top of the ticket in 2024 we might discover she's as hated as Hillary Clinton.
But right now I think it's too early to call her unelectable.
#WaitAndSee
UNELECTABLE.
There, I yelled it.
Democrats managed to win a US Senate seat with a stroke victim candidate.
Despite Biden's approval ratings, Democrats did much better in the midterms than the party in power "should have" done.
You can interpret these results however you want. Maybe Republicans are bumbling morons who can screw up almost anything. Maybe Democratic voters are so obedient they'll vote for someone in a coma as long as they see (D) after the name.
I just think with everything we've seen, especially recently, dismissing Harris' chances is premature.
From what I’ve seen in Chicago, many Dems will vote for anything with a “D” after its name. The Dems could run Adolf Hitler here, and he’d win in Chicago, even if he promised a Final Solution.
/Pardon my cynicism. I've seen Chicago politics up close for far too long.
Democrats Shocked by LaRouche Candidate Win in Illinois
https://apnews.com/article/9637a5ef630cd34eddc0956a8a780585
Maybe drop boxes and mail-in ballots aren't the best method for securing credible election results.
Who said anything about "credible"? The Dems want to win by any means necessary. It's to save Democracy, damnit!
They elected a dead guy last cycle. They'll vote for a corpse as long as it's a democrat corpse.
They have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Carnahan
Or potentially, inanimate objects…….
https://freebeacon.com/politics/pelosi-in-ocasio-cortezs-district-glass-of-water-would-win-with-a-d-next-to-its-name/
It’s also doesn’t help that powerful RINO’s Like Romney and McConnell are actively working against their own candidates.
What is your definition of a RINO? Someone who is center-right? Someone who is deeply conservative and from Wyoming, but opposes Trump? What's the standard?
She is almost certainly unelectable.
But, and I shudder to think this, if KamKam ran opposed to Fatass Donnie?
Pity this poor country and flip a coin.
Tell us how you really feel, Shrike Porks Boys 2.
Porky's 2 was underrated.
I always liked Kimberly Evenson in Porky's Revenge better.
What about Meatballs 2?
One must be genuinely insane to think of Kamala as a better option than Trump.
It is Shrike after all. He's fairly insane and stupid.
Harris might have been the first choice of the DNC, but she’s been such a pile of crap in the VP slot that even the press can’t cover for her. If she was the future they’d be doing a bunch of puff pieces in magazines like Vogue trying to position her as a Michelle Obama type who happens to be Presidential material, but there aren’t.
You can tell they badly want to run Newsom, but he’s a good party man and won’t undercut Biden, and he clearly knows he’s in the catbird seat for a 2028 run regardless of who wins in 2024. Of course, the danger with him is that, as a California governor, he’s going to be intensely hated anywhere that isn’t a deep blue cesspit, and whose election might legitimately spark a civil war.
Enough of the country is deep blue cesspits that the cesspit vote is enough to win.
whose election might legitimately spark a civil war.
That could be seen as a feature not a bug by many on both sides.
I think it’s too early to call her unelectable.
But we have past performance to judge by. She was laughed out of the 2020 primary.
You can't hate someone for being stupid, you can only feel sorry for them. You still shouldn't vote for them.
"But right now I think it’s too early to call her unelectable."
I don't. Unless Trump runs, neither Biden nor Harris will win. And I wouldn't bet on Harris vs. Trump.
Censoring with tax money.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/12/how-your-tax-dollars-are-helping-censors-decide-what-you-can-read/
The “Global Disinformation Index,” or GDI, is a British organization with a pair of US nonprofit affiliates. It receives hundreds of thousands of dollars from the State Department’s Global Engagement Center and the taxpayer-funded National Endowment for Democracy.
But GDI is in the business of doing what the First Amendment doesn’t allow our government to do. It blacklists news organizations to deny them advertiser dollars.
It's a bit of a tangent, but it's kind of ridiculous how the whole "non-government organization" industry is almost entirely taxpayer funded.
Outsourcing is so 1990s.
What Super Bowl ads tell us about the U.S. economy.
That we're creatively bankrupt and running on the fumes of aging celebrities and nostalgia?
South Dakota's H.B. 1080 would ban gender-affirming medical care for minors...
Who could possibly be against gender-affirming care??? IT'S CARE! Right there in the name.
Don't force child care workers to get college degrees...
In fact, forbid it.
Right. Save those $100k student loans for important stuff, like grievance studies and DEI degrees.
Forbid it? Why? How else are you going to make them join the Teacher's Unions?
Nasty shit.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ohios-apocalyptic-chemical-disaster-rages
The chaos began early last week when a train of more than 100 cars derailed in East Palestine, Ohio near the state’s border with Pennsylvania with roughly 5,000 residents. The accident launched fifty of those hundred freight cars from the tracks. Twenty of the freight cars on the train were carrying hazardous materials, ten of which were detailed. While the accident had no fatalities, of those ten cars, five contained pressurized vinyl chloride, a highly flammable carcinogenic gas.
In spite of that, the magnitude of this story has been seemingly scrubbed from the public view as national media outlets continue to run sensationalist headlines about issues that look innocuous in comparison. It is an instance of history being rewritten in real time, setting a precedent that would allow victims of other widespread devastation to be swept under the rug. However, the scenes of the horror engulfing this small town in America’s heartland may prove to make this disaster impossible to ignore, rightfully putting the spotlight on the shortcomings of state and federal agencies tasked with emergency response management whose continued lack of accountability enables them to fail the American public time and time again.
In spite of that, the magnitude of this story has been seemingly scrubbed from the public view
This is pretty crazy. You'd think a massive industrial accident like this would get at least a couple hours of coverage the day after it happened.
It's a nasty mess.
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/3-additional-chemicals-discovered-on-east-palestine-train-derailment/
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency sent a letter to Norfolk Southern stating that ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, ethylhexyl acrylate and isobutylene were also in the rail cars that were derailed, breached and/or on fire.
The NTSB is investigating the cause of the accident and should have the preliminary report out in about 30 days.
couch on the tracks.
Even crazier is they are arresting the few journalist who are trying to report on this.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/east-palestine-police-defend-arrest-newsnation-correspondent-covering-ohio-train-derailment-presser
In a press release Thursday, East Palestine Police Chief J.C. Brown III laid out what allegedly transpired that justified Lambert's arrest.
Brown began claiming how Lambert's live reporting from the rear of the gymnasium was "loud," prompting two State Highway Patrol Troopers along with Adjutant Major General Harris from the National Guard to "advise" the NewsNation crew to "stop their live reporting in an effort to ensure that all members of the media were getting the necessary safety information.
DeWine denounced the arrest during the press conference, saying it was "wrong" for Lambert to be told to stop reporting and asserting he did not authorize law enforcement to apprehend the NewsNation correspondent.
“advise” the NewsNation crew to “stop their live reporting in an effort to ensure that all members of the media were getting the necessary safety information
It's so disappointing that this is our new normal.
Not if they can shoot down a few weather balloons to give the corporate press something else to cover.
We could smell the smoke from the derailment from my Niece's house. She was a bit outside of the evacuation zone and had friends who were evacuated staying with her.
The robot takeover begins....prematurely.
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/watch-marty-robot-escapes-giant-food-store
Customers at a Giant Food store in the Lehigh Valley area of Pennsylvania witnessed the moment when a robot to improve in-store efficiencies strolled off the job and into the parking lot.
It was just taking a smoke break.
He is trying to find his purpose in life. beyond passing the butter
Did he take any merchandise with him? Cuz then we might see the future of automated shoplifting.
He used to work at Shop-Rite, soon he'll be posting here.
He'd probably, easily, be several steps up from Buttplug, Jeffy, and Tony.
Learning from Covid lies.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/what-can-we-learn-biggest-lies-people-believed-about-covid
From the very beginning certain narratives being promoted in the mainstream did not meet logical or scientific standards. It became obvious that fear was the goal, rather than safety. But in order to create fear, establishment elites and governments had to LIE BIG. Here are some of the biggest lies told to the public about the pandemic:
How much longer could the Ukraine War last?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-02-13/how-much-longer-will-ukraine-war-last
Yvgeny Prigozhin got the moniker "Putin's chef" from his close ties to the Russian president and the catering companies and restaurants he owns. He's become better known in recent years as the founder of Wagner PMC (Private Military Group), probably the largest mercenary army in the world now. His men have been fighting in one of the largest current battles in the Ukraine now, in the vicinity of Bakhmut.
As long as it takes until Ukraine is free (to continue serving as a money-laundering operation for American politicians and oligarchs)!
Have all the Ukraine bio-labs been demolished yet?
I suspect US and European voters will tire of this long before the Russian leadership does.
I'm pretty sure that is the strategy. Putin ain't got no stinking public opinion to deal with.
I'm actually surprised at how effective he's been at keeping dissent suppressed, at least so far. If the people in Russia with the actual power and control have no problem with the country carrying out a war of attrition, nothing short of a nationwide general strike would probably stop it.
No doubt you're surprised. Turns out that what the Russians hate even more than war is the West.
Why we need football (and I'm not talking soccer - blech).
https://www.thefp.com/p/why-america-needs-football-even-its
About a decade ago, writers at high-end publications started calling for an end to football. Malcolm Gladwell dubbed it “a moral abomination” and predicted its imminent obsolescence. “This is a sport that is living in the past,” Gladwell said in 2014, “that has no connection to the realities to the game right now and no connection to American society.”
If anyone knows how we should all live and behave, it's Malcolm Gladwell.
Given the high levels of violence in American society, it seems to have a close connection to American society.
Just like soccer, with its posturing and endless referreeing, has a close connection to European society.
Soccer is about as popular a participant sport in the USA as in the average country. And during the period it was catching on as a spectator professional sport in other countries, about a century ago, it entered the big time in the USA as well; but a series of historic accidents derailed it while professional American football gained popularity instead. Pro football continued to gain audience at the expense of pro boxing.
Football's popularity in America got nothin' to do with violence in American culture. If it did, then we'd see greater participation in football in the more violent places and times in America, and such has not been the case.
I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. American culture tolerates and celebrates violence much more than European culture, and you can see that in everything from movies to sports.
Your mental model ("violent culture" = "everybody is more violent on average") is just wrong.
Football is very far from being the most popular sport in America unless you count only spectators. For participation, except among children (pre-teen), American tackle football has never been a mass participation sport. (It rises enormously if you count touch and flag, though.) For a long time fishing was the most popular, now I hear it's bowling. But bicycling and swimming are way above football for popularity if you figure participation over the past year rather than number of hours. Among competitive team sports, softball, baseball, and soccer are well ahead of it.
American football is a thinking person's sport and game, so it engages spectators in ways few other sports can.
thanks for womansplaining to us
Matronizing?
nice
It's all about TV revenue and 32 billionaires getting more billionaire-ey every year.
Two points:
1. At almost any level, participants in football go way beyond the actual players.
2. Have you ever been to Texas?
Yeah, and I suppose "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" is a "thinking person's movie" because it has a lot of spectators while not a lot of people go around killing other people with chain saws, right?
I really like ChatGPT but there's a huge theft occuring with it. It learned from content created by others. Yet its output doesn't even acknowledge those sources much less pay the creator
I'm a thief, also. I learn a great deal from content others create and put on the internet and I don't pay them a dime. I don't even always acknowledge where I learned these things. I'm committing psychic theft by learning from information people free put out there.
Right over JFree's head - woosh!
Cool. Just wait until Google implements its AI into search - and then ceases to include links in the output.
That will be horrible. I will have to continue to not use Google.
I've been continuing to not use Google for years.
I know an artist who regularly visited the Louvre and the National Gallery and stole all their creative content. He never acknowledged their impact on his art.
Shameful.
There is no such thing as "intellectual property".
Yet another restraining order against Pritzer's 2A violation of a law.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/fourth-order-against-gun-ban-enforcement-issued-as-taxpayer-costs-defending-law-grow/article_97c2599e-a98d-11ed-9789-a7cfd99fa7e4.html
Illinois’ ban on certain semi-automatic guns and magazine capacities has been in effect since Jan. 10. Since then, four temporary restraining orders have been put in place, including a new TRO being issued Friday, the second one for Effingham County.
If the state is found in violation over the ban, Pearson said there must be more than a restoration of rights, but doubts people will be made whole.
“The state has violated our civil rights, if we win, we get some of our money back,” Pearons said. “Of course they never pay you the whole amount.”
Pearson didn’t have much hope for one idea to hold people accountable for passing laws that violate rights.
Hell, the people that put Shitzker in power can't even pay their own bills. Fat Boy's going to have to dip into his family's trannie cult recruitment fund and cut back on the deep dish for a few months.
Shitzker
I can't be the only one that honestly reads that name as Priktzer every time I see it.
With his toilet association, I always think of him as Sitzpritzker.
Emperor Commodius Maximus
Translates to "Big Toilets".
You know who else we can allude to, based on the last two letters?
I am sure the Big Gretch is watching all of this with rapt attention. Thus far no mention of an AWB after a lame duck congressman introduced it in the MI House before his term expired [and was allowed to die in committee].
The City of Lobsters.
https://johnkassnews.com/the-city-of-lobsters/
Chicago, Cook County and Illinois love to elect people who “make history” but who are unable to change the course of history. The lobsters love to talk about diversity but silence anyone who does not look like them, think like them, or talk like them. You cannot claim to be diverse and then tell someone to shut up because of the color of their skin, their gender or the fact they actually work for a living.
Don't mistake equity for equality.
The same is true for every City nowadays it seems. Chicago is the macrocosm. but in a lot of ways, Charlotte is a microcosm.
Their current mayor looks like a boiled frog.
Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!
/She gets called Beetlejuice a lot due to her looks and hairstyle.
The Memphis Scorpion Squad was just, in a word, bad.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/13/police-in-tyre-nichols-death-withheld-information-from-fired-emts-union/
The cops who called for medical assistance after brutally beating Tyre Nichols “withheld” information from responding EMTs, the head of the union representing most of the Memphis fire department said.
Year after ‘Crypto Bowl,’ crypto ads vanish from big game
......................
NEW YORK (AP) — How the mighty have fallen.
Cryptocurrency companies grabbed the spotlight during the 2022 Super Bowl, with commercials from a handful of newcomers to advertising’s biggest stage: FTX, Coinbase, Crypto.com and eToro. Some marketing experts dubbed it the “Crypto Bowl.”
.................
A year later, the industry has been humbled by a massive downturn in crypto prices, as well as the bankruptcy of several well-known companies.
https://apnews.com/article/super-bowl-crypto-ads-03e2fd8b063a72ef8044287515ff3d70
BUY YER BITCOINS NOW BOYS! HAPERINFLATION IS HERE!
And what, exactly is your point? A bunch of ponzi schemes had trouble?
I find it amusing that all the alternative currencies are shit while Uncle Buck is killing it.
THAR DEBASING UR MONEY BOYS!
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Well that's not what's actually happening, but that's par for a buttplug post I guess.
We should all take investment advice from the oracle of Dogdick, GA
Good, the US has initiated a shooting war with interstellar aliens, albeit against un-whatever life form operated probes.
Next thing you know they will execute a treaty with China and Russia to establish land bases from which to conduct strategic strikes.
Someone else write the next paragraph
Not a paragraph, but a possible intro: Red Dawn: Independence Day.
🙂
Yeah, maybe a combination of the two.
The part about conspiracy with the alternate superpowers in cahoots with extraterrestrials. And throw in some Heinlein libertarianism.
No, no, too X-files. Let's go more Mass Effect.
We have to start up the Mars colony first and start mining for Prothean technology.
Which of Pluto's moons are really a mass effect relay that we can use to make our way toward the Citadel?
They already have bases in North Korea since the Kim’s are all colonists from their Home Planet. Their immediate plans, however, have been put on hold pending the outcome of charges filed against one of their key moles in the US, the worthress Arec Bardwin!!
The shalk suffeled indigestion flom eating Hans Brix. What a road of lubbish and clap!
🙂
And a Superbowl commercial had the best take on the Chinese balloon saga.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwUQY-twTGY
Yeah, saw that. Local company that has a history of ponying up for a second-half Super Bowl ad. A few years ago, they had one with Mike Tyson.
Hey! They're local to my area near Charlotte, NC. Very creative commercial!
🙂
Clarification: Unidentified DOES NOT MEAN extraterrestrial aliens. Why people always jump to this conclusion is stupid. We know the first one was a balloon, and the other two probably balloons too. No need to invoke aliens. Sheesh.
Why not? It's fun. It provides laughs.
So Feelz Over Realz?
is there any Realz @Reason?
No need to NOT invoke aliens either.
So you're not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens?
Fully agree. See my post above on this subject.
OK, undocumented aliens.
They just want to phone home.
Thanks for womansplaining this.
As natural gas prices tumble, new worries for U.S. shale patch
........
Feb 9 (Reuters) - A 46% drop in natural gas prices this year is rippling across the U.S. shale patch, threatening to slow drilling and chill deal-making in a move unthinkable six months ago as global demand soared.
........
Analysts are chopping their outlook for gas prices this year, and for production and earnings. The drop has also put a cloud over merger and acquisition activity, analysts said.
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Such moves were unfathomable six months ago as Russia reduced its gas flows to Europe and U.S. gas became a hot commodity. The number of active gas-drilling rigs jumped about 48% to 157 in the first six months of 2022, according to data from oilfield services firm Baker Hughes.
ACCORDING TO WINGNUT.COM SUPPLY AND DEMAND DONT MEAN NOTHING! ITS THE MONEY SUPPLY!!!!
Got a link for that, Turd, or are you afraid to post it as we'll just use it to rip your comment apart?
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/natural-gas-prices-tumble-new-worries-us-shale-patch-2023-02-09/
U.S. gas futures were trading on Wednesday at $2.42 per million British thermal units (mmBtu) amid warmer weather and a prolonged LNG export plant outage, down from over $9 per mmBtu in August 2022. They averaged $5.46 per mmBtu last year, the highest price in over a decade.
The outlook is for more of the same. Prices will remain around $2.50 per mmBtu this summer, down from an earlier $3.50 per mmBtu outlook, predicts energy technology firm Enverus. It also sees exit-to-exit 2023 production growing by 1.7 billion cubic feet per day (bcfd), from 3 bcfd in 2022.
Prices further out should stave off any collapse in drilling and deal-making. Gas delivered in January and February 2024 is trading above $4 per mmBtu, well above where those contracts traded in recent years.
News flash, Trud, natural gas prices drop whenever there's a warmer winter. Congrats for discovering the obvious.
Well, if turd includes numbers, they're either outright lies or cherry-picked to show other than what they in fact mean.
turd lies; it's what turd does.
Why can't Open Society send us a fifty-center who understands economics to troll us, instead of the guy who thinks energy prices are the same thing as inflation.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
It didn't make any sense last week, this week it makes sense. Mmkay?
The anonymous quote from WaPo is hilarious, was it Pee Wee Herman? He's seeing his red bike everywhere now...
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1625134209311416320?t=aeDQyJ65aH0meK0af0_1dg&s=19
"J.P. Morgan, the nation's largest bank, has signed a memorandum with Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelenskyy with the eye on attracting private capital for a new investment fund to rebuild Ukraine's infrastructure."
Guess who is going to pay for this.
[Link]
Private capital is.
That is what it says anyway.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Our great great grand kids will still be paying off the 100 billion that Congress stole from us to foment this war .
https://twitter.com/BonifaceOption/status/1624887986809602049?t=SpQ6i36jkcE8FhZ5NC_WEQ&s=19
“Get woke, go broke” is largely a myth.
When the money printer spigot goes through Blackrock, you’re gonna go woke whether you like it or not. And the normie still consooms Gr00mer+ and that one sport with END RACISM tattooed in the endzone as much as they did before The Great Awokening.
No, the only thing that is going to bring this down is political power.
[Link]
It actually makes more sense to see the current political climate as a religious revival of cultural marxist-influenced ideologies, as the writer's alluding to, and one that's going to end up influencing the country for the next generation or two regardless of how it turns out.
And not to put to blunt a message on it, but the sentiments that drove the first Great Awakening helped lead to the American Revolution. Those of the Second Great Awakening helped lead to the Civil War. I highly doubt the Third is going to be any more peaceful in the end.
Maos cultural revolution wasn't violent! Just ask the marsists
"gender-affirming medical care for minors"
We used to call this 'genital mutilation of children'.
^ "gender affirming medical care for minors" is the most orwellian newspeak gaslighting load of bullshit to come out of team proggie in my lifetime.
I'm a boy, I'm a boy, but my mama won't admit it....
They're not "otherwise known as UFOs," UFO is an acronym. It's "...unidentified flying objects (UFOs)..."
/pedant
Brandon accelerates right past WWIII and into The Last Starfighter
"Terrific. I'm about to get killed a million miles from nowhere with a gung-ho iguana who tells me to relax."
California DMV would not give me a RYLOS license plate.
Does *anyone* remember how Brandon decided to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines, before Putin even invaded?
It's all UFO's and weather balloons now.
is like nine-card monty
>>school board of Madison County, Virginia, recently banned The Handmaid's Tale
any word on The Bridges of Madison County?
If only the kids were still allowed to borrow Fifty Shades of Grey.
Tried to read that POS. It's not worth it. I think Dakota Johnson is probably the only redeeming feature of the otherwise crappy film.
Since last week, the U.S. government has shot down three unidentified flying objects
We have always been at war with Mars.
oh ya. that's good.
"Don't run! We are your friends!"
roughly the size of a small car,
So, roughly the size of a Ford Anglia?
[Flicks magic wand, utters incantation "Fox Two"]
Hey Buttplug, more about those death panels you were pining for.
A Yale Professor Suggested Mass Suicide for Old People in Japan.
"A Yale economics professor has some ideas for how to deal with the burdens of Japan’s rapidly aging society. The “only solution,” he said, is mass suicide of the elderly, including ritual disembowelment.">
Just like currently in Canada.
Killing off the weak and the poor is the hottest trend amongst erstwhile liberals like Shrike, but don't you dare call him a Nazi! That's the other side.
Falls right in line with aborting disabled, poor, or black babies.
the irony of confusing an alien spacecraft for a weather balloon would be amazing but not worth starting an interstellar conflict.
Well, that is exactly the confusion that the Army Air Corps (soon to become the U.S. Air Force) tried hard to create and propagate back in July of 1947. Only this time, the confusion may be in the opposite direction.
Glad I made it to Amsterdam before it became a puritanical hellscape.
I will say, two noticeable things about the city that could be construed as unpleasant, among many other incredibly pleasant things, was the omnipresent smell of weed and the throng of tourists in and around the so-called red light district.
Natives had barely any knowledge of the touristy area, since they never went there. I mostly met a bunch of Americans, Brits, and so on.
Weed in the streets smells like freedom to me, but I can understand if people get sick of it. I still think that etiquette insists that being outdoors means your nostrils are fair game, within reason.
"Glad I made it to Amsterdam before it became a puritanical hellscape."
ChatGPT: Write me a comment in the style of a libertine and the world's biggest pervert.
Two workers fell into a mixing vat of chocolate used to make Dove chocolate. The company has a contest now. Anyone who finds parts of the workers and who returns them to their rightful owner (the company) will receive a $10 gift certificate
Just ate two Dove candies. No luck. Will keep trying.
They fell or they dove in?
That wasn't funny enough to laugh. But it was good for snickers
$10 gift certificate? Screw that! I want a Golden Ticket you bloody Wonkas!
I suspect that China or other hostile foreign powers are experimenting with lighter-than-air craft as a tool for disrupting commercial air travel and transport.
I wonder what would happen if China launched 10000 such balloons all at once... they are not very expensive after all.
They could even have 9990 decoys with dummy gear and 10 high tech balloons.
I suspect they could cause a 9/11 style ground stop with just a few hundred.
The MSM is all tied up in knots concerning some UFOs presumably out of China or are they from Mars?
In the meantime a very real ecological disaster has endangered thousands in and around the town of Palestine, Ohio, where a train derailment caused leakage of vinyl chloride only to be compounded by idiots who chose to burn the leakage off creating a massive toxic cloud that is killing livestock and wild life in it path and endangering untold thousands with future cancers.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ohios-apocalyptic-chemical-disaster-rages
That part of Ohio is heavily influenced by organized crime. That might at least partly explain why they're trying to handle it on the cheap.
What's with old Asian guys nowadays?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11745867/Multiple-pedestrians-mowed-U-Haul-truck-Bay-Ridge.html
Are they pissed because they're considered white adjacent and want their victim status back?
Give 'em some time. Gay men got over it.
UFO news is interesting to discuss. If you are curious about UFO news developments. Come on, check out the latest information on our site now! (https://www.medcom.id/)
This is getting out of hand. I got my small daughter a mylar balloon for valentine's day, but she accidentally let it go. Not a couple minutes later as we were still trying to get her to calm down, an F22 flew by and blasted it with a missile.
Why not? It's about as true as most of the MSM commentary on this crap. They are shooting random crap and trying to make us feel like they are saving us from danger. BS. It's not all Chinese spy balloons and it certainly isn't interstellar-capable aliens cuz they wouldn't shoot of they thought it was. It's drones and balloons released by people for all kinds of reasons, just like all the other UFOs. That one sounds like it might have just been a weird glitch. Whatever. Waste of money and attention.
The Nazis were, after all, national SOCIALISTS.
i'm pretty sure he's just a fed
Think that is spelled ped.
And East Germany was the German Democratic Republic. What's your point?
The Nazis were actual socialists. Look at their platform versus the German communists. Not much difference, other than whether they would be nationalistic or defer to Moscow. The real difference is who would be in charge
Nazis are on the left. Case closed.
Yeah, that isn't even close to reality. There was a robust capitalist economy under the Nazis. Many German companies that still exist today were prominent private companies that either thrived or were founded during the Nazi regime (Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, and Volkswagen in autos, Hugo Boss in fashion, Siemans in industrial manufacturing and Bayer in pharmaceuticals, for example) and international companies like Coke, Kodak, IBM, and Ford did business throughout the Nazi period.
Naxi Germany was in no way, shape, or form socialist. It was capitalist. Although they picked winners and losers based on their willingness to submit to Nazi requirements, much like countries like Saudi Arabia of today, the underlying system was capitalist. Totalitarian, but capitalist.
VW was founded by the nazi party.
BMW remained separate due to heavy investment by a nazi party financier, a side hustle by Hitler’s daddy warbucks. They profiteered through the extensive use of slave labor, though that does not make them socialist.
Porsche was a man during WW2 and not a company; he was associated with Volkswagen at that time.
Bayer was part of IG Farben at that time. Private but heavily guides by the nazis (up to half the workforce was slave labor and they did some heinous crimes such as produce Zyklon B).
There was a four year plan.
Coke cut ties with Germany where Fanta was created. The founder was able to bypass national ownership though it had been pursued.
“VW was founded by the nazi party.”
Yes. That’s why I said, ” that either thrived or were founded during the Nazi regime”. And it was a capitalist company that competed against other car companies. As every other company in Nazi Germany did.
There is a difference between a capitalist system under an authoritarian regime and socialism. Pretending one is the same as another is like pretending water is sand because both will flow downhill.
In any totalitarian country the market is controlled by the government. They decide who gets to compete. But any company that gains the regime’s approval has to compete in the market. A market of companies that are willing to play by the regime’s rules and demands? Absolutely. But a capitalist ststem of competing companies is still there. The market is still there. The ability to succeed or fail is still there.
Were a lot of those companies complicit? Absolutely. Bayer made Zyklon B. Volkswagen was, as you pointed out, founded by the Nazis. And yet, unlike in a socialist system, Volkswagen had to compete against other car companies. IBM made the systems that allowed the Nazis to keep records and track people much more easily. Hugo Boss made uniforms for the regime. BMW (and many other companies) used Jewish slave labor. But they still had to compete.
The Nazis weren’t socialists, despite their name. Just like the DDR wasn’t democratic.
If operating a capitalist system under authoritarian rule is the same as socialism, then modern-day Saudi Arabia, Russia, Turkey, and more would be socialist. And none of them are.
Socialism means a very specific thing. The right wants to make it mean “everything other than exactly what we like”, but it isn’t. It involves state control, lack of competition, and markets with no competition.
These days even China isn’t completely socialist, which is why it hasn’t collapsed like Russia did. Socialism is dead because it is a deeply flawed, inefficient system.
I’m sure there is (or soon will be) a name for the hybrid socialist/capitalist (or controlled/competitive market if you prefer) that China has created. Have you ever heard of one?
Modern "democratic socialists" here in the US also advocate a "robust capitalist economy" with widespread private ownership. So, by your usage of the terms, like the "national socialists", they aren't actually socialists either, they are fascists. Which, of course, they are.
The distinction that actually matters to libertarians and (actual) liberals is the distinction between free markets and all other systems. And from that point of view, there is little difference between the fascist and the socialist system. Again, which, of course, there isn't.
"The distinction that actually matters to libertarians and (actual) liberals is the distinction between free markets and all other systems."
If that's the standard, then there are no capitalist systems in the world. Every one of them is regulated in ways that distort a pure free market.
Socialism is a specific thing. Capitalism is a specific thing. The free market is an element of a capitalist system, bit there are no completely free markets.
The Nazis weren't socialists because the market in Nazi Germany wasn't socialist. It was a capitalist system where companies competed with each other for customers.
I know that the paleocons want to pretend that the Nazis were leftists and those who don't know any better have decidsd that because they used the word "socialist" in their party name, they were actial socialists. But the realist of their economy proves otherwise.
Again, if the definition of a socialist economy is one that doesn't have a completely free market, every economy in the world today is socialist. If, on the other hand, the actual elements of a socialist vs. capitalist economy are looked for, Nazi Germany is clearly capitalist, not socialist.
You are trying to obfuscate the truth by playing semantic games with labels. Forget the labels, just look at the policies.
Conservatives and libertarians hold beliefs that are diametrically opposed to the fascists of a century ago, and conversely, fascists of a century ago explicitly condemned and hated the belief systems that we call conservative and libertarian.
Conversely, democratic socialists and progressives pursue policies, advocate economic systems, and hold beliefs that very close to fascist programs of a century ago.
No amount of semantic games with terms like "left", "right", "socialist", or "capitalist" changes these objective facts.
Not just during but by. Imagine the GOP consolidating all political power then starting a manufacturing company. That is what happened with VW.
Are we back to “We will get socialism right this time?” The national socialists were not Soviet style communists, no. A lot of cronyism and some private enterprises but also state consolidated. Heck, even the Soviets had internal competition such as from the different design bureaus including MiG and Sukhoi.
China was able to transition its economy to a different market style while still maintaining political control of the CCP whereas the Soviet Union collapsed because Gorbachev couldn’t pull it off. Russians largely view him poorly and blame him for that though the socialist system was to blame with problems occurring a decade plus before him (and much earlier under Stalin as one example). They also had to compete against the national socialists post Barberossa.
Sino collectivism.
NOYB:
“You are trying to obfuscate the truth by playing semantic games with labels.”
You mean by redefining socialism in a way that would get laughed at by anyone with a basic understanding of economics? Oh, wait. That was you.
“Conservatives and libertarians hold beliefs that are diametrically opposed to the fascists of a century ago”
Of course. That’s why all the neo-Nazis, racists, and bigots support leftists. I mean, “Unite the Right” was actually a leftist rally where all the leftists were marching with torches and chanting, “Jews will not replace us”.
Fool yourself all you want, only your fellow travelers believe that Nazis were socialists.
Chumby:
“Not just during but by. Imagine the GOP consolidating all political power then starting a manufacturing company. That is what happened with VW.”
I must have missed the part where all other car companies were prevented from competing against BW for customers and ceased to exist. The way I heard it, there were many other car companies that were in competition for customers. But sure, change the definition of socialism to “a market in which a state-created company competies against other companies in a market where customers can choose whether to buy their product or not” so that you can pretend the Nazis were socialists and not deeply conservative.
“A lot of cronyism”
So, capitalism.
“some private enterprises”
Most companies in Nazi Germany were private companies. Almost none were state-controlled. So, still capitalism, unless socialism is now defined as “a market where at least one company is state-controlled”. Good luck getting anyone to agree to that.
“China was able to transition its economy to a different market style”
Yes, one where companies (including most multinational companies) compete for customers in an authoritarian, but profit-driven, market.
The bottom line is that unless you employ the most rigid, ridiculous, and unsupported definition of “socialism”, Nazi Germany wasn’t socialist. It wasn’t liberal. It was a nationalist, ethno-centist, traditionalist, conservative, totalitarian state. Point to the word “Socialist” all you want, the economic system wasn’t socialist.
Where have I tried to “redefine socialism”? I have told you to stop playing meaningless semantic games and actually argue in facts. "X is socialist, Y is right wing, therefore X cannot equal Y" is invalid reasoning.
“X supports Y, therefore Y has the same ideology as X” doesn’t work, in particular in a two party system.
Furthermore, lots of racists, and bigots support leftists; not only that, lots of them are in Congress.
I don’t use the term “socialist” for your ilk, I call you what you are and what you call yourself: progressive.
Fool yourself all you want, you and your fellow travelers are basically Nazis.
"Where have I tried to “redefine socialism”?"
You're right. It was Chumby who was trying to redefine socialism to be synonymous with "an economic system where privately owned companies compete for customers and profits, with at least one state-owned companies also competing in at least one sector."
That is the description of the market in Nazi Germany. It is also the definition of capitalism. It is, notably, not at all the definition of socialism. So can we agree that the Nazis weren't socialists, despite their party name?
"“X supports Y, therefore Y has the same ideology as X” doesn’t work, in particular in a two party system."
That's not what i said though, is it? I pointed out that the Unite the Right rally, as one example, was an overtly neo-Nazi/white supremacist gathering. The chants of "Jews will not replace us" was a charming combination of Replacement Theory and antisemitic bigotry, all defended and waved away by one of the major parties and the soon-to-be 45th President of the.United States.
Historically ethno-nationalism, reverence for heterosexual marriage and nuclear families, appeals to traditional values, and hostility towards homosexuals, cultural minorities, and non-Christian religions were defining traits of Nazi Germany. Many of those ideals are shared by conservative movements throughout history, including modern America.
The worldview of Nazis was rigid, traditional, and conservative. The revisionist history that American conservatives are trying to put forward is just not supported by the facts. That's not to say, in any way, shape, or form, that modern American conservatives are Nazis. But they are on the same side of the political spectrum.
"I don’t use the term “socialist” for your ilk, I call you what you are and what you call yourself: progressive."
I am in no way, shape, or form a progressive. I don't share their beliefs, especially their economic beliefs. The only way you could accuse me of being a progressive is if you never read anything I've ever posted.
I am vehemently opposed to cultural conservatism because it is inherently anti-liberty. It can't be otherwise, since society and culture keep evolving and moving forward, leaving outdated, traditional values behind. Their only recourse is to use legislation and government force to coerce people.
If they would just leave people alone to make their own moral, ethical, and value decisions ... do I have to actually advocate for "live amd let live" on a libertarian comment section?
Racial inequality, gender inequality, marriage (interfaith, interracial, and homosexual), divorce, contraception, sex education, pornography, and abortion were not only vehemently opposed by cultural conservatives, they were adamantly declared to be Very Bad Things that would Destroy America. Yet here we still stand, undestroyed.
But opposition to cultural conservatism doesn't make me a progressive. There aren't only two choices. And my economic beliefs, embodied by my full-throated support for and enthusiastic participation in capitalism, are decidedly anti-progressive.
First of all, Trump is not a standards bearer for conservatism or libertarianism, so what he says has no bearing on the classification of fascism.
Second, you are a liar. Trump explicitly condemned both neo-Nazis and white nationalists:
I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally–but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists"
So? We’re not talking about the classification of “cultural conservatism”, we are talking about the classification of progressivism. Progressivism is anti-liberty, just like (political) conservatism, so that particular attribute doesn't distinguish between the two ideologies.
That is a load of bullshit. Let me just pick out a couple of points. It was progressives who promoted racism, anti-miscegenation, homophobia, and eugenics, based on what they considered “the science”. Woman’s suffrage was pushed by the Woman’s Christian Temperance Movement, conservative Christian women who also wanted to prohibit alcohol. Conservative Christians were at the forefront for ending slavery and opposition to eugenics.
And very bad things have been happening due to divorce, contraception, pornography, and abortion: Europe is experiencing demographic disaster, and the US would be without mass immigration. The warnings of conservatives were spot on. That doesn’t mean that their policies were any good, but it’s not like progressives have come up with anything better.
What makes you progressive is your belief that:
society and culture keep evolving and moving forward, leaving outdated, traditional values behind.
Not only is that belief at the core of progressivism, it also has been disproven by history time and again.