Lockdowns Had Little Impact on COVID-19
Data show Florida and New York had similar death numbers despite vastly different approaches.

It's now been three years since COVID hit.
At the start of the pandemic, "experts" shouted: "Stay home!" "Close schools!" "Wash your hands!" "Disinfect countertops!"
Clearly, disinfecting countertops and washing hands made no difference. What about closing schools and lockdowns?
The media trashed Gov. Ron DeSantis when he lifted Florida's lockdown. "Acting irresponsibly!" roared MSNBC's Dr. Vin Gupta. Reporters praised New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's lockdowns.
On CNN, Andrew's brother Chris gushed, "I am wowed by what you did!" By contrast, he said, Florida was "in such dire straits."
But actually, adjusted for population, Florida and New York had about the same number of deaths. Given that Florida has more old people, Florida did better than New York. Much of the media just reports what it wants to believe.
My new video this week covers which states and countries handled COVID well and which didn't.
For the most part, there are few dramatic differences between states that opened up and those that didn't. The two states in the continental U.S. with the fewest deaths: Vermont and Utah—a red state and a blue state.
The leftist media also got a lot wrong covering the rest of the world.
When Swedish health officials let the virus spread to try to reach herd immunity (and allow younger people to live normal lives), the media's "experts" were horrified.
Time: "A Disaster!" NBC: "Sweden's failed experiment."
But it wasn't a failed experiment. COVID deaths did surge at first, but data from the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show that Sweden has done better than most European countries.
The OECD ranks countries by comparing "excess deaths," deaths above the pre-COVID average. That's a better way to compare because some countries undercount COVID.
India reported fewer than a million COVID deaths, but the World Health Organization says the real number is probably much higher, because there were five million excess deaths in India over the past three years.
Maxim Lott's excellent website, Maximum Truth, covers this "COVID Fudge Factor" in detail.
Former Soviet countries often undercount. Belarus' dictator bragged, "There are no viruses here!" But Belarus had many more excess deaths.
Two countries that did well during COVID were in sub-Saharan Africa. I found that surprising since Africa has low vaccination rates and sparse medical care. Lott attributes it to Africa's very young population. COVID rarely harms young people.
What does the data say about countries like Australia that imposed brutal lockdowns? It's not clear that the brutality helped. But Australia's rules did save lives, mostly because for two years, the island sealed its borders. That dramatically limited COVID's spread.
But once almost every Australian was vaccinated and the government lifted its lockdown, COVID cases soared, like they are in China now.
Adjusted for population, Australia has now had more COVID cases than the United States.
But fewer Australians died, partly because the less deadly omicron variant was circulating when the country lifted its lockdown.
Was Australia's strict lockdown worth it? The average Australian lived two weeks longer. To me, it's not worth it. Being locked in my apartment or shot with rubber bullets if I went out to protest just isn't worth two extra weeks of life.
Even people in China, where protesting is illegal, recently protested enough that China lifted its most severe rules.
Lockdowns also hurt us financially. New York lost 400,000 jobs since the start of the pandemic. Florida gained 400,000.
In New York, where schools were kept closed, child obesity increased by five percent. In Florida, obesity fell.
Kids' education suffered. Last year brought America's lowest math and reading scores in decades. In Sweden, which never closed its primary schools, kids suffered no learning loss.
I understand that three years ago, frightened politicians wanted to do something. A highly contagious virus does require some public health restrictions.
But I wish they'd be a little humble. All of us have different values about safety versus freedom.
Life is better when we get to make our own decisions.
COPYRIGHT 2023 BY JFS PRODUCTIONS INC.
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But the lockdowns were only for two weeks.
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Just long enough to flatten the goalposts.
One thing the article fails to point out. NY had most of its deaths early in 2020 (Like April 2020). Florida had most of its deaths Summer of 2021. - in fact Florida exceeded NY total deaths around August 2021.
At one point, NY death rate was about 20 per day - Florida was 300+ per day (Sept 2021)... Heart disease was about 70 per day so COVID was the No. 1 killer by far in Florida.
Florida's governor had a anti-vax policy (even though he was fully vaxxed) that contributed to a low vaccination rate in Florida.
Staying indoors happens more in NY during the winters (when its cold - duh!) and Florida has more indoor time during the summer (when its too hot).
Bottom line.... WAY TOO MANY VARIABLES TO COME TO A CONCLUSION about one single variable
Hilarious!!!!
Florida’s population is the oldest in the country. Covid is far more lethal to the elderly. Comparing age bracket deaths per capita, Florida still did better than NY.
Cherry picking is for propagandists.
Indeed. Now that the lockdowns don’t cast the democrats in a favorable light, they seek to obfuscate.
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People are dying!!!
Florida state doesn't include snowbirds so comparisons with New York is faulty. Age adjusted per capita Covid deaths are higher in states that didn't follow guidelines. Look it up. Look at China now. Lockups were not followed by high vaccinations rates and the vaccines were not as effective as the ones used in the West. Lockups work in the short run to reduce number of cases so hospitals aren't over run, treatment improves and vaccines can be made.
So why do the numbers not support the lockdowns? As several states and countries show, the lockdowns did not help in the long run.
Actually they do support the lockdowns. As the models predicted, the curve in NY reversed three weeks after the lockdowns began. Florida had a much larger death rate all summer 2000 during months after NY had ended its lockdowns.
"...Age adjusted per capita Covid deaths are higher in states that didn’t follow guidelines. Look it up..."
Screw you. You made the assertion; provide the cites. Or STFU.
Correct. If you contract COVID while temporarily in Florida and die in your own state, your death gets incorrectly credited to your home state. Basically, DeSantis exported death. Stossel doesn't understand how the data are collected and should not have embarrased himself with this article.
I'm pretty sure this was already obvious 2 years ago to anyone paying attention. But thanks for repeating it. This must never be forgotten.
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Lockdowns Had Little Impact on COVID-19
I'm pretty sure the lockdowns weren't aimed at COVID-19.
Were they aimed at the entire worldwide economy?
Because they sure beat the crap out of those.
P.S. White Mike says that there were no lockdowns, remember? So Stossel and everyone else must be completely mistaken.
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Trump didn’t send armed police/military to force you to stay in your homes, so obviously there was no lockdown. Duh!
If everyone had gotten the jab, there would have not been the need for the lockdowns. Ooorrph!
Kind of silly.
Most lockdowns took place before the vaccine was available.
When everyone who wanted the vaccine got the vaccine, they lifted. Which was as it should be.
Lots of germaphobes wanted to keep the lockdowns, but fewer and fewer areas decided to save people from themselves and re-opened.
The lockdowns did nothing for WuFlu and created many other problems.
"...When everyone who wanted the vaccine got the vaccine, they lifted. Which was as it should be..."
Not in CA, they didn't.
Of course, the masking didn’t do any good. It was stupid from the first, except maybe in a health care setting. The problem is that all of the models predicting that they would be effective were based on droplet dispersal. But you only have droplet dispersal when you are symptomatic, and coughing, and then most people self quarantine. When asymptomatic Or presymptomatic, the dispersal is by aerosol, and even N95 masks have holes an order of magnitude than the virons in the aerosol.
My takeaway from Max Lott's study, that I've linked to on these comments more than once, was that vaccines were effective at preventing deaths in the vulnerable assuming they didn't get sick before getting the vaccine. That's not a value statement. It's not praise for vaccines or lockdowns. It's just my interpretation of the facts.
It was certainly a good idea for particularly vulnerable people to try to avoid getting infected early on, when the virus was more deadly and there was no vaccine.
One of the most outrageous things in all of this was that the measures taken overall failed to protect the people who most needed protecting and imposed on the lives of everyone who didn't.
One of the most outrageous things in all of this was that the measures taken overall failed to protect the people who most needed protecting and imposed on the lives of everyone who didn’t.
I've thought about that. How could the government get away with only taking those measures to help the most vulnerable? Wouldn't that be considered age discrimination or some other violation of civil rights? The solution of course is to force everyone to comply, instead of focusing efforts on those who will be helped.
It’s not a solution.
It's a solution for politicians who care more about covering their asses than actually doing good.
The solution of course is to force everyone to comply, instead of
focusing efforts onforcing those who will be helped.FTFY 8-(
What if they just tried to pass along whatever verified information they had, or as close to verified as was available, to let people know the risks, and then let each individual make their own decisions?
The problem is "letting each individual make their own decisions" about *COVID* affects *everyone*, unlike any other decisions that people make as individuals. /s
I find it really odd that many people seem to think that violating the civil rights of only part of the population is worse than violating everyone's civil rights wholesale. Seems to me the latter can only be objectively worse, as undesirable as the former may be.
But I would never suggest or praise a policy of forcing the old and infirm to "lock down" or whatever. Just provide accurate information to help people assess risk. And if we're going to throw money at the problem, how about funds to hep nursing homes and hospitals more effectively take measures to protect their patients.
I find it really odd that many people seem to think that violating the civil rights of only part of the population is worse than violating everyone’s civil rights wholesale.
Searching Arab males age 20-40 isn't fair, so the TSA must grope grandma. Asking old people go get vaccinated isn't fair, so schoolkids must get the jab. You get the idea.
You could just, you know, not force vaccines on anyone.
Or you could vacation in the land of reality and try to understand what is going through peoples’ heads instead of just dismissing them for having bad intentions.
Like dismissing “conspiracy theories “?
If the consequences of a certain policy could be sussed out by a 12 year old or if they have been explained to you and you still insist that society conform to your demands, I think it’s safe to say you don’t have good intentions.
(Royal you, obvs)
Most tyrants believe their intentions are good. I’m sure every Marxist mass murderer thought he was doing the right thing.
It’s based upon fairness.
It’s easier to sell injustice when only a minority are effected. Who cares if it doesn’t effect me, right? I don’t care if it is unfair.
Similarly it’s easier to sell injustice when everyone is effected. Who cares? Everyone else has to do it too.
Edit. I’d argue it’s easier to sell injustice if everyone is effected, because those objecting to injustice are the minority, and it encourages victims of the injustice to get mad in the name of fairness and demand injustice on everyone.
Fairness (in the equality under law sense) is certainly a good principle for good governance. But I'm not convinced it's worth much when it's applied to equal oppression for all.
It’s hard to argue for or against justice when your own country collaborates with china to deploy a virus, ostensibly because trump was looking at re election. Or maybe we did it all on our own. Doesn’t matter because either way, chaos would ensue if it was ever revealed. But really, is there any better method to get rid of the useless feeders sapping all your Medicare and disability and social security? Not to mention the huge boon to the military for successfully calculating a very dangerous virus to kill just enough of us. The sky is the limit now. Oh and the lockdowns? Jesus, who needs Marshall law now? And you’ve got to hand to their propaganda teams - the first global effort went off without a hitch - they all bought it. Hats off to everyone that worked so hard to fuck his fellow man in the ass. I’d have done the same thing.
I find it really odd that many people seem to think that violating the civil rights of only part of the population is worse than violating everyone’s civil rights wholesale. Seems to me the latter can only be objectively worse, as undesirable as the former may be.
His proposition necessarily assumes an active and forceful role of government, not a passive one, and otherwise ignores the effective largest role of government right now, in reality, is actively engaging in such action.
That is, simply saying, "It's a good idea if old people get vaccinated first." while freely vaccinating anyone who wants it and without reservation is not discrimination while saying "You can't collect the social security money we've taken from you until you're 65... maybe." is.
My only proposition is that you're a willfully ignorant signaler of political virtue.
Provide accurate information to assess risk
That seems like a laudable goal. But imo that was actually the biggest problem. A majority - possibly the vast majority - wanted the public discussion to be based on lies. There was and remains no good faith to any of this.
And people like you certainly didn't help with the misinformation.
The lockdowns failed. There's no spinning to it.
As you were a proponent for denying both care and basic rights to those who questioned the efficacy of locking down vs targeted quarantine -not to mention the clearly ineffective vaccine, you have nothing to add. STFU w/ your 'good faith.' This is a pluralistic society. If it were a just society, your in-group would already be facing the same penalties that you proposed for others.
"...There was and remains no good faith to any of this."
Speak for yourself, and jam your PANIC flag up your ass, chicken little.
No, you just have a strong public service and messaging campaign to get older people vaccinated, along with strong suggestions of social distancing and testing for people who regularly come into contact with said vulnerable people. The answer is not "inoculate your infant for monkeypox because discrimination!"
I don't think he was saying that is the right answer. But that it is the politician's answer.
No. Discrimination on the basis of actual vulnerability is unambiguously both constitutional and moral. Now one questions traditional quarantine laws (which limit the freedoms of those actually infected and known to be exposed) even when those groups show correlation with one or more protected classes.
Would some stupid people make the argument that it was a prohibited form of discrimination? Probably - but they would be wrong.
The problem, that is coming out more and more, is that the extent Al artificial mRNA gene therapy product vaccines are turning out to be much more deadly than the virus for anyone younger than, say, 50. I was looking at the fatality level for kids, and for those 2-10 or so, the fatality level of the virus was not even registering as high as 0.001%. Not even 1/2 per 100,000 (those 0-1 it was all the way up to the 0.0001%). It just didn’t kill people younger than maybe 50-60 without significant known comorbidities. And that was pre-Delta.
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"One of the most outrageous things in all of this was that the measures taken overall failed to protect the people who most needed protecting and imposed on the lives of everyone who didn’t."
Sounds like prime govt efficiency to me.
A LOT like gun control, no?
As in 99.99% of gun owners will never knowingly commit a crime, until the ATF make up a regulation to render all felons by default.
I don't think there's much debate over vaccines reducing hospitalization and death from a *checks notes* very low number to a very, very low number.
But that's not what we were told, sold and lied to about in 2021.
Or at least there wasn't in the first part of 2021. With Omicron and later variants, the risk-benefit calculation needs to be reassessed. I've seen a lot that suggests that the vaccines' effect on all cause mortality is becoming negative.
Excess mortality is at a 50 year high
Yes. It is very troubling. I hope I'm more worried about it than I should be. But I fear that is not the case.
This is due to you not getting vaccinated!
It’s because of bears in trunks.
Yes - the vaccines have killed far more than the virus has in younger people.
The jury is still out. Actual deaths FROM Covid were probably only 30% of the reported Covid deaths, which were WITH Covid. Total excess deaths by age bracket suggest that the weakening of the overall immune system caused by the jab lead to far more deaths overall by age bracket than the jab could possibly have “saved” (saves = actual effectiveness percent times percent who would actually have died from the disease - a pretty small number).
But, as I said the jury is still out and you may be exactly correct. What was never correct was mandatory jabs for everyone.
While I'm not an expert on the efficacy of vaccines, I'm pretty sure any statistic saying they made people is a statistical mirage. From the very start, people with severe health issues have always been a priority for vaccination, but as vaccination rates have begun to decline among healthy people, really sick people make up an ever growing proportion of people still getting COVID booster shots. This is why you need RCT testing of any important statistic, otherwise it's just a way to pick your favorite lie.
Actually the vaccines prevent deaths in the vulnerable and the supposedly non vulnerable even when they did get sick from the vaccine. The sicknesses from the vaccines were mild and temporary. Long COVID is unfortunately a real thing, too.
We should always keep in mind when evaluating COVID that there is a major difference between what prudent people should do and what government should try to require them to do. A third major player in all this was employers – what they decided to require their employees to do as a condition of employment. For over a decade all the major world epidemiological authorities recommended that governments NOT try to lock down their societies because it would have very little good effect and that doing so would do far more harm socioeconomically than any good it might do. In spite of that some politicians panicked, and others decided not to let a good crisis go to waste. The excuse was “flattening the curve” to avoid overwhelming the healthcare systems that they had previously crippled with state mismanagement. Epidemiology and statistics are hard, and it takes time to collect and analyze the data. The data is in now and government gets an “F”
^
"We should always keep in mind when evaluating COVID that"
it was always a totalitarian globalist psyop to kick off The Great Reset.
You forgot Biden forcing employers that do business with the Federal Government to have their employees vaccinated or lose their contracts. My Employer was one of those. We lost people and still haven't been able to find enough qualified people to replace them.
"Reporters praised New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's lockdowns."
Yes. Yes they did.
Sometimes when reminiscing about #Resistance heroes who fell from grace (Mueller, Avenatti) I tend to forget about a certain posterboy for privilege who basically inherited his father's job.
#AtLeastHeHasTheBookDealMoney
Everyone in China wears a mask. Now they are all sick.
Explain.
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Their masks were made in China?
The Chinese people are sick of masks?
Dangerous Misinformation.
Their health has been shanghaied?
The CDC knew why before shifting to political action committee for the ruling class.
From the CDC web site pre-COVID:
1. "If you are sick," the CDC says, "you should wear a facemask when you are around other people (e.g., sharing a room or vehicle) and before you enter a healthcare provider's office." But "if you are NOT sick," it adds, "you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask).
What's going on at Reason today? Is this "Let's rehash some facts everyone already knew for a really long time" day?
Perhaps they're just killing time until the Fair Tax Act gets signed into law?
Preparing for Amnesty?
Everyone meant well
Best of intentions
All week, really.
Apparently they are just now getting around to reading the comments section from middle-to-late 2020.
But I thought we were just a bunch of trolls who hated the magazine and freedom. Why would they want to start catering to us now?
But I thought we were just a bunch of trolls who hated the magazine and freedom.
I don’t know who said that. Though it is a fact that most of the people in the comments are angry conservatives brimming with hatred towards Reason writers and libertarians in general because they equate any and all disagreement with the right with support for the left.
ENB said it.
Nice to see you repurposed all of those used cocktail straws into an effigy.
OK. I thought my question, as stated, left plenty of room for completely reasonable, non-partisan, non-political motivations, but since you've decided to be so transcendentally BOAF SIDEZ! about it; Why would they want to abandon "civil libertarianism" (or whatever) and start catering to the right libertarians now?
are we burning things yet or just letting it slide?
'Mostly peaceful Amnesty'
I do get to continue to live knowing if my heart explodes it won't be vax-related so there's that
For now...
Of course not. Because the narrative is that no one's heart is exploding from COVID vaccines. No, no, no.
Babylon bee:
Experts Say They Don't Know What Thing Is Causing Everyone To Suddenly Collapse, But It's Definitely Not That One Thing
U.S. — Medical experts are absolutely stumped as to what could be causing the recent uptick in healthy, young people everywhere that are suddenly collapsing with heart failure. Despite their uncertainty, experts do feel confident that we can rule out that one thing as the culprit.
"It's too early to say what could be causing this, but it's never too early to say what isn't causing this," said local expert, Dr. Scott Rufflinger. "This could be caused by anything. But the one thing we know for certain is that it's definitely not what we're all thinking that's behind this — if you know what I mean. We can go ahead and rule that thing out right now because Science just called us on the phone and told us not to discuss it. We always follow Science."
According to sources, experts have been working tirelessly around the clock to try and get to the bottom of why so many seemingly perfectly healthy, athletic people are falling over suddenly. "I wish I could point to something in the past year or two that large groups of people were exposed to, or forced into, but nothing comes to mind," added Dr. Rufflinger. "If only there was one thing all these patients had in common."
At publishing time, experts said they had narrowed down the list of what most likely was causing these sudden health issues down to: climate change, racism, Christian Nationalism, standing up too quickly, standing up too slowly, and not eating enough bugs.
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Why should an election in this state ever be trusted to be fair ever again?
The Lockdowns had little effect on Covid 19, yes. All future elections though...
May not have had much effect on health issues, but sure kicked the economy in the slats:
“After years of surpluses, California headed toward a deficit”
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/California-governor-to-announce-belt-tightening-17707089.php
"Much of the media just reports what it wants to believe."
Yes, we know. And much of their audience is no better.
Adjusted for population, Australia has now had more COVID cases than the United States.
From the memory hole:
For reference, 70,000 Texans is, proportionately, 510 denizens of Australia's Northern Territory... at the time.
You are aware that the vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting sick, right? Instead it gives your body a head start in fighting off the virus if you do get sick. So the number of cases doesn't mean much. What matters is death rates. Especially among the vaccinated.
That’s not how it was sold.
that's the problem with letting politicians do the selling.... they overstate good and understate bad worse than the slimiest used car salesmen.
The whole point of vaccines ever since Edward Jenner, has been to provide immunity. Not just to ameliorate symptoms.
The problem isn't politicians overselling, the problem is that the mRNA injections are not working vaccines. They're therapeutics at best.
yeah.... and seat belts are a bad idea because they don't provide 100% protection.....
The seat belt manufacturers never claimed such. Politicians on the other hand, exaggerated the effectiveness of the vaccines. Big difference.
"yeah…. and seat belts are a bad idea because they don’t provide 100% protection….."
You really are a dishonest piece of shit, aren't you?
All medical interventions are therapeutics. What do you call something that trains your immune system to recognize a deadly virus? Why do you think it's a victory to call it by another word?
Because politicians were wrong in what the jabs could do. Vaccines are thought to provide full immunity, but that didn't happen. It's misleading to say otherwise.
Don't defend those politicians.
""That’s not how it was sold."'
Exactly.
I was sold like Maxwell Smart trying to convince the bad guy he's surrounded.
Yeah, well, Aussies locked down for almost 2 years and only came out of hiding when the much less severe variants were the dominant strains.
So that makes it a bit difficult to do a simple single-variable analysis to compare the two situations, don't you think?
You are aware that the vaccine doesn’t prevent you from getting sick, right?
It's too bad Anthony Fauci, Rochelle Walensky, most of the media, and dozens of other high profile health "officials" and every single politician that either participated in or supported vaccine mandates lied about for so long.
Oh, and the social media companies who were *checks notes* just making a business decision lied about via a vigorous censorship regime.
What matters is death rates.
Death rates from/with COVID and nothing else? You're sure?
Alright, close the Texas border and ban all non-essential travel out of... or into... remote TX communities like they did in the Northern Territories in AUS. Send any/all violators to concentration/immigration/COVID camps/cages. Life, liberty, happiness secured. EZPZ.
Now do the Omicron variant that pushed out Delta a year ago. How exactly did the mRNA producing Wuhan variant spike proteins help get a start on fighting the later variants?
https://twitter.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1613220917349388290?t=dV3E1t-Dsxx3xw2mXFkfDw&s=19
Who do you think the government will let riot so you forget that we can't operate planes or afford eggs anymore?
https://www.nbc12.com/2023/01/10/high-school-senior-dies-after-suffering-heart-attack-school-officials-say/
https://twitter.com/RWMaloneMD/status/1613151370697232384?t=tb5qmA6IyY4fMcm7KzSXag&s=19
The case of Scott Gottlieb illuminates the problem of the public-private partnerships which the WEF promotes. Corruption. Failure to maintain system integrity. Blurring of boundaries. And Grifting.
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But, but, but 10 out of 10 National Sozialist(Nazi)-Fans in the USA agree.
So long as our Gov-Gun ARMED Sugar Daddy keeps bringing home the STOLEN Tofu we’re more than happy to be prisoners of the state. Daddy-Gov and his almighty GUNS will save us all.
Nothing fights a virus like threatening GUNS... GUNS fix everything! /s
this is not surprising, because by the time we got to the lock downs the whole thing had started to become political.... in no small part because of the lock downs.
i have said many times that early on the voluntary response to covid was pretty big. concerts and sporting events canceled, people stripping grocery stores bare so they could hunker down at home more, every business that could was switching to work from home for employees, even some places putting masks at the front door for people to wear. people were mostly trying to take basic precautions to avoid spreading it. people were following the most simple of guidelines.
and then... some politicians noticed that not 100% of people were doing everything, or that some (like restaurant workers) really had no choice..... and they said, "well then, we will just FORCE them." and in America, more than most places, there is no way to make people resist an idea more than telling them you are going to force them to do it. going out to bars turned into big gatherings at homes. wearing a mask stopped being a choice and started being a sign of compliance to actively refuse. many people started to make deliberate choices to increase the risk BECAUSE those in government were trying to force them not to.
to make it even worse, the politicians who decided to use force in the first place failed to remember the point of doing any of it in the first place. they forgot that completely stopping the spread was never possible and that the only reason to do anything was to slow the spread enough to prevent overloading the hospitals (like what happened in European countries with socialized medicine and lower bed counts) for long enough to get vaccines ready for the at risk.....
and then, when the vaccines were ready, they started talking passports and mandates and made THAT another thing to refuse to do because someone was trying to force it on you. it gets talked about a lot how many lives the lock downs destroyed through the economic and mental health impacts, but i think the mindset of those trying to push mandates and lock downs might have caused more people to die from covid itself..... by making vaccination and other precautions a political decision instead of a personal one.
Pretty much. My response to anyone lamenting how covid has been politicized is to say that as soon as mandates and other coercive measures started, it was a political issue. Regardless of people's responses to it, that made it political.
And I will admit that early on one of my main reasons for not taking the vaccine was so that if it was mandated for me, I could refuse. To me the ability to say "no" to shit like that is more important than somewhat reducing the already very small likelihood that this one virus might make me seriously ill.
"And I will admit that early on one of my main reasons for not taking the vaccine was so that if it was mandated for me, I could refuse."
and your ability to refuse is fundamental and good..... kind of my point how the mandates actively pushed people to not doing the things that, absent the politics, they might have chosen to do.
Is 'the ability to say “no”' to any rule more important to you than the life of another person? Two persons? Seriously, how many people have to die so you can make arbitrary decisions?
The vaccines do not stop the virus from spreading, it only provides some level of protection for those who end up contacting COVID. So Zeb's choice to not have the COVID vaccine will not impact others anymore than if he took the jab.
The "other person" can determine for him or herself if he or she wants to stay isolated and/or take the vaccine. Zeb doesn't need to decide that for them, nor should the government.
I suspect there's no point, look at what it's written. Beneath the petulant appeal to emotions fallacy, there's more. The same irrational canards the rest of the cult trot out when faced w/ a person who doesn't follow rules simply because they are rules. To lackwits, it doesn't matter that the vaccines didn't and don't prevent transmission, or even infection. It doesn't matter that simply quarantining the sick would provide better protection, and has so historically. It doesn't matter that by mid-2020 fatality rates were clear. It doesn't matter that the lack of effectiveness of masking had been known for decades. They need to follow unquestioningly, and expect everybody else to do so as well. This unfortunately goes well beyond a simple libertarian/civil liberties vs authoritarian/petulant tyranny schism. It's a fight between those who will ask questions and those who will blindly accept any and everything.
mental health impacts, but i think the mindset of those trying to push mandates and lock downs might have caused more people to die from covid itself….. by making vaccination and other precautions a political decision instead of a personal one.
Yeah, keeping people boxed up together in close proximity during flu season was a winner.
But covid cured the flu!
not sure exactly what your point is..... those taking precautions against covid actually reduced the impact of the flu at the beginning. (there is a great big hole i have not seen anyone trying to explain on the impact of reduced exposure to other viruses that normally reinforces immunity to endemic viruses.... like the RSV that has existed forever and somehow is suddenly making the news.)
Isolation would explain reduced influenza spread...
Oh, and when yet another asshole revisionist tries to tell you "nothing was really locked down" tell them to stand with their feet apart at shoulder length, then kick them in the balls.
So REASONable.
You first. List the policies and laws you supported, and support. And provide you social media account details. Because, you will lie.
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1613279670866165760?t=EQsf0aVTtjfyPB1YtOr9ew&s=19
Good news: Moderna has a new vaccine for anyone who has heart damage from the Covid vaccine.
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Yet the lock-downs killed the economy, destroyed people financially, drove people to drink and take drugs excessively, caused mental health issues, stunted children's learning and killed many from lack of other healthcare. Was it worth it? Absolutely not.
Yet we see the tyrants looking to lock down again. It was never about health, but always about getting people to accept government repression. Just be a good little sheep and go along with what we say!
The pandemic was an incredible period of growth for me. All I needed was for the FOMO of social life to be a nonfactor, and I was able to thrive. I'm physically and mentally healthier than I've been since I was a child.
Sometimes we choose our environments and sometimes our environments choose us, but Darwinian rules are always in play.
Well you could've gotten all those benefits without the lockdowns. You choose your environment, after all. Why risk the mental health of others? The lockdowns were a failure.
You already were an early drunk; getting drunk earlier?
"fewer Australians died"
Yep. Extremely reliable excess death data, from ALL causes, shows 65 for every 100,000 for Australia,
322 for every 100,000 for the US.
"All of us have different values"
Yep. Some of us use math to dehumanize. Stossel doesn't even explain where his "two weeks" figure comes from.
It's a fun game w/ you trolls. Stossel does provide citations for the information he uses, but as you are not very bright, you missed it. Your attempt at at ad hominem 'dehumanize,' is risible, some of you do use math to dehumanize -and it's you that does this. The absolute best part, after making your bullshit assertions, you provide zero sources. Further, the information you provide appears to disprove your assertion ('all' is not covid), shrike, is that you?
"But I wish they'd be a little humble. All of us have different values about safety versus freedom."
Yes. Good science and policy making both require humility. They say they didn't know then what we know now and were simply "following the science" and "safety first." Though the dissenters they tried to (and often did) silence understood that the precautionary principle works both ways, unintended consequences are real, and risk management properly combines scientific data and values, with safety first a nonsense goal at odds with living. And of course, we knew from early in the pandemic that much of the conventional wisdom about science from supposed public health experts was wrong or delusional, such as Dr. Walensky's comments about masking and vaccine effectiveness. 80% effective cloth masks, and you won't get or transmit Covid after vaccination. Now it is clear that the authoritarians are anti-science, when they still push for and defend mandates long after we know about differentiated risk profiles and the failure of Covid vaccines to prevent infection and transmission.
It should be remembered that in all of history, with the possible exception of very temporary measures in cases of natural disaster or war, there are no verified examples of any totalitarian measure ever benefiting anyone apart from the totalitarians.
When will humanity learn that, no matter how scary totalitarians make it sound, Liberty is always best?
Indisputable is the fact that Trump-voting counties have a significantly higher Covid death rate than Biden-voting counties. Lockdowns may or may not have been effective, but the vaccine sure seemed to be,
Sorry you backed the wrong pony and ended up dead. Maybe try getting your news from reliable sources next time.
Not so. Utah, a red state, ended up having the best outcome of all 50 states. Florida ended up doing quite well considering its high elderly population. Being selective with data is a form of dishonesty, Tony. You should repent of that.
When those "reliable sources" give out misinformation like saying that masks are effective and that the vaccine would prevent transmission, coupled with the fact they tried to censor those who argued otherwise, it's no wonder trust in those "reliable sources" are at a record low.
Source for Utah being ranked #1 for COVID response:
https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/utah-ranks-no-1-for-state-pandemic-response-new-study/
Hawaii and Vermont have lower COVID death rates than Utah.
Florida was #13 in COVID death rate according to its official stats, which inaccurately ignore the people who contracted COVID in Florida and died in their home states. It has to count as a failure.
Lots of studies show that masks do reduce transmission. The huge clinical trials showed that the vaccine reduced transmission rates for the original strains of the virus.
It is unreliable sources like you who promote distrust.
Tony is full of shit.
"Sweden has done better than most European countries."
It did far worse than the countries that it is most similar to: Norway, Denmark, and Finland. It ranks as a failure. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5
Just like us Conservatives said - the extended lockdowns were clearly designed to crash the worlds greatest economy in order to hurt political rival president Donald J Trump.
Claims it was for “safety” are Leftist gaslighting.