Elon Musk Should Take a Clear Stand Against Censorship by Proxy
The most disturbing aspect of the “Twitter Files” is the platform’s cozy relationship with federal officials who demanded suppression of speech they considered dangerous.

From the outside, Twitter's content moderation decisions look haphazard at best. From the inside, they look worse, especially because government officials play an unseemly and arguably unconstitutional role in shaping those decisions.
The internal communications that Elon Musk, Twitter's new owner, has been gradually revealing to a select few journalists show that the company's former executives arbitrarily applied the platform's vague rules and surreptitiously suppressed content from disfavored accounts. The "Twitter Files" also confirm that the company had a cozy relationship with federal agencies, allowing them to indirectly censor speech they deemed dangerous.
Musk, a self-described "free speech absolutist," is trying to signal that things will be different under his ownership. He faces a daunting challenge as he attempts to implement lighter moderation policies without abandoning all content restrictions, lest Twitter become a "free-for-all hellscape" that alienates users and advertisers.
One part of that mission should be relatively straightforward. Musk could make it clear that neither government bureaucrats nor elected officials have any business dictating what Twitter's rules should be or how they should be enforced.
Musk took a significant step in that direction last month by rescinding Twitter's ban on "COVID-19 misinformation," a nebulous category that ranged from verifiably false assertions of fact to demonstrably or arguably true statements that were deemed "misleading" or contrary to government advice. That policy invited censorship by proxy, giving the Biden administration an excuse to enforce obeisance to an ever-evolving "scientific consensus" by publicly and privately pressuring Twitter to crack down on speech that officials viewed as a threat to public health.
The Twitter Files show that the company also collaborated with the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in identifying and suppressing "election misinformation," another ill-defined category open to wide interpretation. Executives enforcing that policy regularly conferred with those agencies, and they privately recognized that such coziness would be controversial if it were publicly acknowledged.
The reason for that reticence should be obvious. It is one thing for a platform to enforce its own content restrictions, even if it does so in a way that is widely viewed as unfair, inconsistent, or politically biased. But when that platform takes its cues from the government, private moderation decisions can easily become a cover for unconstitutional speech restrictions.
Because the government has the power to make life difficult for social media companies through castigation, regulation, litigation, and legislation, its "requests" always carry an implicit threat. It is therefore not surprising that Twitter and other major platforms have been eager to fall in line.
Musk himself seems confused about the issues at stake here. He tends to conflate "freedom of speech" with freedom from private content restrictions and misleadingly implies that Twitter's broad ban on "hateful conduct," which he is still avowedly committed to enforcing, applies only to speech that fits within judicially recognized exceptions to the First Amendment.
Musk's confusion was apparent last week, when Rep. Adam Schiff (D‒Calif.) said he was "demanding action" in response to an "unacceptable" rise in "hate speech" on Twitter since Musk took over the platform in late October. Musk responded by questioning the evidence that Schiff cited, saying "hate speech impressions are actually down by 1/3 for Twitter now vs prior to acquisition."
Instead of getting bogged down in a debate about whether Twitter has in fact been overrun by bigots on his watch, Musk should have asked why Schiff thinks he has the authority to demand the censorship of speech that offends him. The First Amendment, which bars Congress from "abridging the freedom of speech," is pretty clear on that point.
Independent journalist Glenn Greenwald laments that "dictating to social media companies what they can and can't platform, how they must censor, the role Democratic politicians play in all this, is just assumed as normal." Musk is well-positioned to challenge that assumption, and he could start by telling Schiff to mind his own business.
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I think the fact Elon Musk is airing all this dirty bodes well for the future of Twitter. If the GOP hadn't squeaked out a majority in the House, I'd be more concerned about legal threats in the next couple years, but maybe he can pull this off and kick government officials out of the process entirely.
Careful, you've fallen for the woke brigade's propaganda. Twitter was overrun by bigots before Musk cleaned them out.
Leftist bigots and pedoplhile, but that's Jacob's kind of people.
Sullum is an active pusher of the woke brigade’s propaganda
This was a RICH line from Sullum, that displays is hypocrisy for all to see.
He spent all of 2020 - 2021 bogged down in tut-tutting the evidence for lockdowns, instead of focusing on the fact that they were a direct affront to liberty.
https://reason.com/2021/08/12/rand-pauls-criticism-of-cloth-masks-was-stronger-than-the-evidence-justifies/
Even there, where Sullum gave a tepid defense of free expression, his main concern was trying to argue facts with Rand Paul. So in fact, while Sullum ostensibly agreed with Paul's stance against suppressing "un-official" speech, and masking mandates, he was more interested in letting the opponents mire him and Paul in debates about The Science! (TM)
It seems that nobody can win the benefit of the doubt from Sullum- most especially if they are pushing back against overtly (ehem) leftist infringements of our liberty. These articles are basically big attempts at Concern Trolling.
The Science was strong in many of those old comments, many of those folks that made them are absent these days from having to own them.
And that entire time, I was making exactly the argument Sullum is making now- that Reason should stop arguing about The Science! (tm) and instead focus on the case for liberty and freedoms. As much as I am glad to see Sullum doing this, it rankles that he now gets holier than thou against people he finds icky.
The Sullum School of Debate = When somebody makes a false accusation against you, just accept the false premise and craft your arguments around it.
I'm going to do something I haven't done before, praise a Sullum article.
This was exactly right:
"One part of that mission should be relatively straightforward. Musk could make it clear that neither government bureaucrats nor elected officials have any business dictating what Twitter's rules should be or how they should be enforced...
Because the government has the power to make life difficult for social media companies through castigation, regulation, litigation, and legislation, its "requests" always carry an implicit threat...
Musk should have asked why Schiff thinks he has the authority to demand the censorship of speech that offends him. The First Amendment, which bars Congress from "abridging the freedom of speech," is pretty clear on that point."
I hope some of the other Reasonistas previously claiming "muh private company" even as it was becoming apparent that federal government agencies were pressing for the censorship of certain individuals and ideas, will come around to this view.
And not one reference to Trump!
Let's hope he understands the connection between trashy writing and TDS.
Sullum is several years late to the party, as the Reason staff has largely been pooh-poohing the collusion between Twitter and federal government officeholders and agents until Musk recently rubbed their noses in the evidence.
Not just that, but as I note above, Sullum's entire tepid criticism of Lockdown Mania 2020: The Mandating was all rooted in throat clearing about The Science! (TM).
https://reason.com/2021/01/18/would-a-national-lockdown-have-saved-the-u-s-from-covid-19/
That's one of about 1000 articles from Sullum where he never once mentions "freedom" or "liberties" and instead makes utilitarian arguments about the scientific evidence that lockdowns are good or bad. For two years he played this game. But now he wants to take Musk to task for doing the same. I guess it's refreshing to see Sullum start arguing Principles for once, but a little bit of humility before lecturing others actually DOING something about principles (even if flawed) would be warranted for people such as him.
the Reason staff has largely been pooh-poohing the collusion between Twitter and federal government officeholders and agents until Musk recently rubbed their noses in the evidence.
Remember when any suggestion that Twitter engaged in shadow banning, possibly at the request of various three letter federal agencies, was an insane conspiracy theory? After all, Jack Dorsey claimed in front of Congress that Twitter didn't shadow ban, and besides they're a PrIvAtE KuMpAnEe, so who cares if they do? Good times...
You are conflating two separate viewpoints on what was going on at Twitter.
The people, including me, who were saying “ PrIvAtE KuMpAnEe” we’re not claiming there was no shadow banning.
And spelling someone else’s argument in a funny spelling isn’t an effective counter argument, by the way.
Twitter banned people at the government's request. Where's the conflation in any of that? There isn't.
If this is your defense of pre-Musk Twitter then that's just pathetic.
Well, a defense of their First Amendment rights to voluntarily comply with government or campaigns’ requests if they are sympathetic with the request. This seems to be the case — i.e. there is no evidence that Twitter had any desire to resist the requests or that there was any government coercion.
Also, to be accurate, if we are talking specifically about the Hunter Biden laptop ban that was not at government request. The Biden campaign asked for it.
Then that means the government still was involved in censorship through a private actor. It doesn’t matter if it was voluntary or forced, it’s still a violation of the 1st Amendment.
Why defend that action? That logic could be used to defend grooming. It’s disgusting of you to be okay with this.
It matters a lot whether it was voluntary or forced. If it was voluntary, they had the First Amendment right to ban whoever (it's not clear anymore if we are discussing a specific incident) and we libertarian should be defending that right.
The problem (and mike knows this) is that when threats are on the line, you cannot tell what is voluntary and what is compelled. Mike to this day cannot explain what "we" libertarians should think about Fascism based on his sophist reasoning. But that is because Mike isn't libertarian in any way. He is a lefty who is here to create noise because as long as libertarians are constantly arguing about the kulture warz he helps foment, his lefty allies will continue their nonsense.
Being OK or not with what Twitter did is a different matter than ackowledging they had a Constitutional right to do it.
As for what I personally think of their banning the story about Hunter Biden's laptop, I think they made a bad decision. It wasn't a decision of much consequence, however.
When a company does an action at the request of the government, no, that's not a constitutional right, instead the company becomes an agent of the government. Contrary to what you imply, Twitter did not censor the Hunter Biden story out of their own choosing. In Twitter's case it is a clear cut case of censorship by proxy.
What's next? If the government requested that all business ban all Jews from employment, which is clearly against the law, are you going to excuse anti-Semitic companies with the same excuse you've been giving to Twitter? Pathetic. The government is at fault for clearly breaking the law in this case regardless, and any company that adds such a horrible policy, voluntary or otherwise, government-influence or not, will not earn any business from me.
Are you seriously this stiffnecked? Repent, Mike!
It is hilarious that just a week ago, Mike was doing exactly this. When proof arrived showing that Twitter execs were acting as unethical, partisan hacks to impact the election (including shadow banning), he was proclaiming "See! No evidence of government involvement!"
This is his game. Show that they were acting unethically, and he will claim that the test should be whether they were colluding with government. Show that they were colluding with government (as later file drops did) and he will argue that they are victims and it is unfair to blame them for this. According to Mike, there is nothing to criticize Twitter for.
There is plenty to criticize Twitter for, even if they were not breaking the law. The difference is that he liked their campaign of shadow banning and de-amplification. That is his job. He is here every day trying to add noise to any conversation among right-leaning people. And if Twitter acts unethically to do the same thing, that is a feature not a bug.
The last thing Mike wants is clarity that you can have "Private Companies" and still recognize that they are behaving in a way that should be heavily criticized and punished by the market. Instead he will insist that there is no problem and we are wrong to criticize Twitter even if there is a problem.
Sullum is really good on somethings, the 2A among them.
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....And those politicians doing it should be charged for breaking the peoples law over them and removed from office.
What Sullum doesn’t mention is the number of “former” FBI and CIA functionaries actually still employed at Twitter. Not to mention representatives of other governments’ intelligence agencies – including China’s.
These all need to be dismissed immediately.
Thank you, Senator McCarthy.
Youre terrible at this shrike.
The number of ex doj or IC officials on corporate boards is frightening.
this is correct. given the situation and the history, any former federal employee working at twitter would be fired immediately if i was Elon.
This article sort of misses the point when it suggests that it’s OK for a private company to censor content as long as it’s not at the behest of the government or someone in government, because people in government move into the private sector all the time via the “revolving door,” and they take their political ideology with them. So under this article’s “reasoning,” a former government official will leave government, get a job in the private sector, and begin censoring content that he or she WOULD have censored while in government, and that would be fine. That’s a loophole large enough for a fleet of aircraft carriers to float through.
How can you prevent this within libertarian principles? A libertarian would likely argue the free market will take care of this.
For me, I'm fine if Musk hires Nina Jankowicz or Donald Trump to personally censor every tweet. And I'm free to never use Twitter, but this is easy for me to say, I never have used Twitter.
We have laws protecting free speech from government control because to be free, to have liberty at all, we need a culture of free speech.
If we lose that culture of free speech to the extent where private entities are doing the government's censorship FOR them we're in trouble.
When presented with outrageous speech the near universal response used to be, 'well, we got free speech'
Now people casually accept censorship if the person censoring is only a megacorporation whose actions only affect the global population rather than the guys at the bar.
"Now people casually accept censorship if the person censoring is only a megacorporation whose actions only affect the global population rather than the guys at the bar."
Yes, that is indeed the problem. What is the solution?
Currently the solution is recognizing these corporations have government influencing them into action. Outside of removing this influence i am fine with explicit laws against actions government attempts to influence through corporations.
People always state they like the bill of rights despite government often ignoring them. But when states like Texas or Florida take action to explicitly enforce freedoms at risk of government through corporate actions they freak out. Take DeSantis telling cruise lines who were being forced to require vaccinations through the CDC that they can't require vaccine passports. To me that is an appropriate response as it protects the individual from a powerful entity being coerced by the federal government. Reason took the opposite stance of this being government overreach because "muh private company" while ignoring the federal coercion.
So in instances a law favors an individual over corporate power under influence, I say let the law exist. Just like the bill of right exists to explicitly limit power.
I am sympathetic to your prioritization of individual freedom over corporate freedom. This is probably the only workable short term solution, but also ripe for future abuse.
Until the nexus of corporations and government interaction is reduced it is necessary. This all stems from Wickard and has gotten worse every year. This is both the influence of capital and of regulation. It is also why ESG must be stopped.
"If we lose that culture of free speech to the extent where private entities are doing the government’s censorship FOR them we’re in trouble."
And there are two pieces wrapped up in that: Culture, and government censorship.
There is no silver bullet here. Maintaining culture must be done by the citizenry. Look at gun control laws. In counties and states without gun culture, the government is able to get away with far stricter gun control for decades than in counties where any possible infringement will be challenged tooth and nail. The same is true with a culture of free expression. In counties, states and countries where there is not a culture of free expression, there will always be governments that figure out how to insinuate themselves in novel and infringing ways.
Unfortunately, we will never be able to roll back government's ability to censor in this manner without fighting for the culture of free expression. People need to look at NYT, WaPo, and Adam Schiff's complaints about misinformation and laugh in their faces. They need to see ENB and Chemjeff arguing technical details and call them out for the culture of censorship that they are enabling.
That is not to say that we shouldn't get all sorts of transparency. There should be thousands of FOIA requests going to the DHS right now to uncover every instance of Federal and State Governments doing this shit. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, because it leads to people like ENB and Chemjeff looking like shills when they try to handwave past the egregious behavior newly on display.
Thanks Overt. This solution, while not a quick and easy fix, seems like the best for overall and long-term freedom.
Actual libertarians recognize the regulatory structure around these companies. And the use of said structure to coerce companies.
No doubt, I understand this is the problem.
this is the main factor here.
it's not just that they happened to hire an employee with a censorious bent, they were working hand in hand closely with regulators and power-wielders to silence americans.
"Government" is not a set of people, it's the things they do and how they do it. Ultimately it's all people, of course, but it matters whether they wield guns or not.
It is OK for private companies to censor speech on their products, otherwise you would be forced to bake the damn cake.
"He tends to conflate "freedom of speech" with freedom from private content restrictions..."
As it largely does. "Freedom of speech" is a philosophical position which encompasses more than the legalisms surrounding the 1st Amendment clauses. A culture of Free Speech encompasses a willingness to let others have their say even if you despise what they say.
Of course. You can violate someone's right to freedom of expression without violating the First Amendment. Our rights were not created by the Bill of Rights.
I think this misstates what is happening. Twitter isn't violating anyone's right to free speech. But they are betraying a culture of free expression. Universities were supposed to be places with a culture of free expression- not because of your rights, but because of the belief that free expression is necessary to a robust and properly operating republic.
And by the way, this goes both ways. If we believe that a culture of Free Expression is a good thing, then we all have responsibilities to nurture that culture. While platforms like Twitter have used their power to debase this culture, so have many groups of people. Behaviors like "Brigading", "bot-posting", "shit-posting" and arguing from fallacy are all destructive to a culture of free expression, just as behaviors like responsible gun ownership promote a culture of an armed citizenry. Without these cultural values, we may technically have certain rights, but society as a whole does not enjoy the benefits.
+1
With the caveat that what Twitter was doing was clearly violating other's right to contract and also engaging in defamation.
Public universities have obligations to both free speech and free expression. They are failing badly at both.
Twitter claimed to be open to anybody subject to their published TOS.
They made multiple public representations regarding what were banning offenses, Many of those under oath.
They then banned people.
Only now do we know that - by their own standards - those people had not committed banning offenses.
I would nitpick on whether or not you could actually prove in court that they violated contract. But that is really irrelevant. Whether you can prevail in court or not is not the point. The point is that they can be completely, technically legal and still be engaged in subverting a culture we believe is important.
And the evidence is clear that executives were acting unethically. They claimed to WANT to promote free expression, when in fact they were engaged in partisan activities to impact the 2020 election and silence people they care about.
And they largely got away with it because they were misleading through omission and obfuscation. AND many, many journalists, (who should know better), lefty commenters, subversion bots, and government agents were engaged in a campaign of subverting the culture of free expression. And that latter bit is key: we need to get past the technicalities and pragmatism and make full throated defenses of free expression. Otherwise Sullum's concern trolling and ENB's shit posting, and Biden's saber rattling, and Krugman's Krugmanning will destroy an important cultural touchstone.
I’ve said a few times, quite a few of the writers here would be fine with Italian fascism as it hides government power behind the veneer of a free market.
Too often libertarians focus solely on explicit government powers while ignoring any other nexus of power.
Yes, but a culture of free speech also recognizes you don’t have to tolerate the other person’s speech at your dinner table, or have to pay your money to publish the other person’s speech (or, by analogy, have to lose your advertising revenue as a result of publishing the other person’s speech).
Just because Twitter lets people have accounts free of charge doesn’t make Twitter a commons.
The problem with your statement is that Twitter did their actions under the direction of government. That's not okay. But of course, someone like you seems incapable of understanding this.
De-tangling the Twitter mess will take time.
I like the idea of content moderation, but with any content moderation the rules need to be extremely clear and any post that is restricted needs to be tagged with the exact reason for the content moderation. Non of the vague stuff from the past where the poster does not know why they were banned.
I'm against any permanent ban, but could accept a time based ban. For example after x number violations then your account is suspended for x amount of time. Again the rules would need to be very clearly defined.
I like the idea of users moderating their own content and the platform limiting their actions to only that which is objectively and overtly illegal.
Rule of thumb is: If you aren't going to refer it to law enforcement then leave it be.
noooooo people should be banned for wondering if the vaccines have a side effect or not!
I agree that it would be better if Twitter were explicit and transparent about why it bans someone’s account or tweet.
Now, the question is, if Twitter doesn’t do it the way you prefer are you and I caring the government forcing them to do so, or will you simply not use Twitter (or continue to use it while tolerating some personal dissatisfaction)?
When Sullum says “disfavored accounts” and “political bias” what do you think he means? Who was disfavored and political bias against whom? If agencies of the government, possibly even the FBI, pressured that disfavor and bias, that seems like kind of a big deal.
It is a big deal if they pressured Twitter. However, what if, as seems the case, the management of Twitter was sympathetic with the FBI’s asks and voluntarily agreed to go along with them? That’s their prerogative.
Then that means the government still was involved in censorship through a private actor. It doesn't matter if it was voluntary or forced, it's still a violation of the 1st Amendment.
Why defend that action? That logic could be used to defend grooming. It's disgusting of you to be okay with this.
It was not a violation of the First Amendment for the Biden campaign to ask Twitter to suppress the Hunter Biden story and for Twitter to voluntarily agree to do so. In fact, it was the opposite: Twitter was exercising its First Amendment rights not to publish I story they didn't want to publish.
Also, I would add that it was revealed in the Twitter Files that Twitter also had a channel set up for the Trump campaign to make such requests.
It was not a violation of the First Amendment for the Biden campaign to ask Twitter to suppress the Hunter Biden story and for Twitter to voluntarily agree to do so.
This is totally a violation of the First Amendment. A government group told a private company to suppress a story, which the company did so. Doesn't matter if it was voluntary or otherwise, it's a classic example of censorship by proxy.
Bringing up the Trump administration has no relevance to any of this. It's not okay for Twitter to censor individuals if it's in behalf of government groups.
Shouldn't Reason have taken this stance?
BUILD YOUR OWN...
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Wait what? It actually happened? You mean... everything those goddamned gadfly commenters were saying was... so... *sigh*
Again, BOAF SIDEZ! S230 IS MUH 1A!
Fact: Elon buys Twitter.
Normie Response: Huh, it will be interesting to see what falls out after he shakes things up.
Media Response: Free-for-all hellscape! Oceans will boil! Flaming sulfur will rain from the sky! 40 yrs. of darkness!
...
Fact: The law says trannies are allowed in all women's spaces.
Normie Response: Wait, doesn't that create the potential to physically harm and generally disadvantage women at the expense of coddling people who, by their own admission, are less than 100% attached to reality?
Media Response: Knock it off with your backwards, bigotted moral panic, bigot! It's not like they're DQing women for athletic scholarships or teaching kids at the school library with their junk hanging out.
Fact: Twitter runs its company how it sees fit.
RWNJ Response: OMG Free Speech is being attacked!
Fact: Elon buys Twitter.
RWNJ: Yay Elon is a true supporter of Absolute Free Speech and he will save the world!
Elon: Bans the kid who post info tracking Elon's plane, even though he said he would not.
Sorry your side lost its narrative construction toy. Fuck off to Mastodon with the rest of the losers.
Nice you found teh one example of Elon blocking targeted harassment of himself.
Got any others? LOL
Not yet. Give it time. This one was remarkable in the fact that Elon specifically singled this out claimed because he is so awesome and freedom-loving that he was NOT going to ban the kid.
Waaaaaahhhh, muh EBILL MUSK, he ban dat kiiid, WAAAAHHHH 🙁
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
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Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
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You are delusional if you think the new twitter will be as petty and partisan with censorship as previously.
It can be as petty and partisan as the owner chooses. That is my point.
And what makes you think that targeted harassment is "petty and partisan"? It isn't. In fact, you can get arrested for it.
https://americanmind.org/salvo/thats-not-happening-and-its-good-that-it-is/
The Law of Merited Impossibility
The coinage is Rod Dreher’s and goes back to the early debates on homosexual marriage. As Dreher formulates it, the Law of Merited Impossibility holds: “That will never happen, and when it does, boy will you [homophobes, transphobes, racists, sexists, whatever] deserve it.”
This Law is used, first, to disarm resistance to the latest leftist enthusiasm. Whatever the innovation is, it will have no adverse consequences. None! Puberty blockers and disfiguring surgeries have no downsides whatsoever. How dare you suggest they might!
Its second purpose is to dismiss out of hand “slippery slope” arguments—despite, or because of, the fact that every single such argument over the last twenty years at least has proved true. Worried that allowing people to “self-identify” as whatever sex they want will lead to pervy 50-year-old men exposing themselves to’ tween girls? Insist, loudly and indignantly, that that will NEVER happen and anyone who suggests it might is an alarmist bigot with a heart full of hate.
The third purpose is to enforce the new caste system. Those who get to impose fresh irrational indignities on the rest of us are the upper caste. Those who object, or even have reservations, are lower. The latter are not allowed to harbor, much less express, any doubts. Whatever humiliation the upper caste has planned for us, we deserve and must meekly accept. Hence when said pervy 50-year-old actually does start waving around “her” equipment in the girls’ locker room, if any parent dares object, let ’em have it with both barrels. That thing that ten seconds ago you said would “never” happen? Now it’s righteous punishment for the retrograde.
Why is conservatives’ current response of choice to “loudly and indignantly” yell back rather than calmly and maturely state that they don’t go along with the left’s latest enthusiasm du jour?
When we get both sides acting petulant and aggressive it leads to The Spiral of Devolving Discourse.
The Law of Salutary Contradiction
Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.
Is the NSA spying on Tucker Carlson? That’s an insane conspiracy theory … which is also warranted by Tucker’s treasonous contacts with Russian officials as he seeks an interview with Putin.
Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.
Once you learn to recognize this pattern, you see it everywhere. It is the cornerstone of ruling class rhetoric in the current year.
Who is saying that Biden isn’t putting immigrants on planes. It’s open government policy that right-wing spinners have been trying to paint as being done secretively.
The Celebration Parallax
A parallax is the apparent difference in position of the same object seen from different vantage points. For instance, an analogue speedometer that reads sixty miles per hour to the driver, but fifty to the passenger—even though the needle itself is only in one place.
The Celebration Parallax may be stated as: “the same fact pattern is either true and glorious or false and scurrilous depending on who states it.” In contemporary speech, on any “controversial” topic—or, to say better, regime priority—the decisive factor is the intent of the speaker. If she can be presumed to be celebrating the phenomenon under discussion, she may shout her approval from the rooftops. If not, he better shut up before someone comes along to shut him up.
Note also that the key distinction here is celebration versus non-celebration, not support versus opposition. One need not actually, clearly oppose the subject under discussion in order to be blameworthy. Declining or neglecting to celebrate it forcefully enough is enough. As in Stalin’s Russia, lack of enthusiastic clapping is regarded as opposition. The legitimacy of one’s right to state the same identical fact, in the same identical language, depends on who one is and what one thinks of it. Since the left presumes that all persons of color approve of the phenomena covered by the Celebration Parallax, the Parallax is really a test to distinguish allies from Deplorables.
The Left insists that concerns from certain quarters that immigration policy in America (and Europe) amounts to a “great replacement” is a “dangerous,” “evil,” “racist,” “false” “conspiracy theory.” But a leftist New York Times columnist can write an article entitled “We Can Replace Them” and … nothing. Same fundamental point, except she’s all for it and her targets aren’t. A U.S. Senator can exult that demographic change will doom Republicans. Joe Biden himself can refer to an “unrelenting stream of immigration.” Except they’re celebrating it and calling for it. Anyone on the Right who uses the exact same words will not merely be denounced; the very fact pattern that is affirmed when Biden says it will be denied when the Rightist repeats it.
giving the Biden administration an excuse...to crack down on speech that officials viewed as a threat to public health.
Under no circumstances did the Biden administration view information contrary to the completely politicized, "evolving "scientific consensus"", a "threat to public health". They viewed is as a threat to their ability to control the citizenry.
The response to any government agent asking to censor or limit speech is, and should always be, "show me the court order."
Also any claims of "foreign disnformation" should only be accepted in writing, by named and signed government officials, and any actions taken in response MUST include full publication of said document(s).
You know, actual journalism.
Not palace guardism.
But what if the person who owns that business agrees with what the government is stating and is doing it for that reason, not out of some fear of government retribution? Why should Twitter be forced to be a platform for advice under the guise of "Free Speech"; i.e., medical advice from the doctor who thinks women get endometriosis and ovarian cysts from sleeping with demons in their dreams? Let the whackjob air her BS on her own website. The fact that the government pointed out certain posts does not equate to government forcing them to be taken down.
How about you not read posts you don't want to read, you dumb whore?
My post has ZERO to do with what I want on Twitter. It was about those who own the business allowing what THEY want. Is calling me a whore and a cunt supposed to accomplish something other than making yourself look immature and foolish?
My post has ZERO to do with what I want on Twitter.
Right, that's why you argued this:
Why should Twitter be forced to be a platform for advice under the guise of “Free Speech”; i.e., medical advice from the doctor who thinks women get endometriosis and ovarian cysts from sleeping with demons in their dreams?
How about you just not read posts you don't want to read, you dumb whore?
Bake the cake!
DeAnnP is actually making just the opposite argument of “Bake the cake!” She is saying bake the cake/don’t bake the cake — it’s your choice.
On the contrary, DeAnnP is implying she wants a Twitter that censors and suppresses speech, and feels like it’s okay for government to tell them to do just that as long as its voluntary. Yet that flies in the face of the 1st Amendment. It's an unacceptable position to take, and disgusting of you to defend a person with that position.
Why not just have the whore block the doc, ignore him or tell him why he's wrong, instead of advocating censorship, be it government-influenced or otherwise?
Promoting the concept of "dangerous" ideas as justification for censorship also presumes that average people are not capable of critical judgement, which in turn justifies authoritarian control. Is that what you want?
women get endometriosis and ovarian cysts from sleeping with demons in their dreams?
This is a good and accurate description of who was being banned. Tight... tight description.
Telling that you have trouble with DeAnnP abstracting the argument to cover a hypothetical case, and that you care very much about who it was specifically being banned. It’s all about team sports not principles.
Yes, so telling for someone to call out a poster for using the most ridiculous and extreme example instead of what was actually being banned.
Stella Immanuel was actually banned. She is a kook who believes what I posted above. Why should the owner of Twitter be forced to allow her to give out any medical advise whatsoever? Like I said, what if the owner agrees with the government's assessment and is not forced with threat of punishment by said government to act. Whether the owner is Dorsey or Musk?
Then it’s still a case of censorship by proxy. That’s not acceptable.
If you don’t agree with the advice, you can block her, ignore her or tell her why she’s wrong instead of advocating for censorship, especially if requested by the government.
https://twitter.com/loganclarkhall/status/1602847456915595264?t=CFSlGjRCZeYktRBTKmUG1Q&s=19
the slippery slope turned a white house event for “marriage” into a white house event for castrating toddlers.
[Link]
He should end all censorship and let it devolve into cp, racist tirades, bigoted bullshit, etc.
A true libertarian paradise then.
But hey, perhaps the "censorship" was in place because people don't care to associate with all that kind of crap. Who knew?
Entirely unsurprising that you equate elimination of the dissemination of child porn with censorship.
Get help pedoJeffy.
He should end all censorship and let it devolve into cp, racist tirades, bigoted bullshit, etc.
LOL, they were incompetent at getting the cheese pizza off of there in the first place, you dumb queef.
And now you're coping and seething because your team lost its narrative construction toy. Fuck off to Mastadon like the rest of the losers.
Banning Ye was a mistake.
And when people don’t want to frequent a place where all that kind of crap is common, advertisers don’t want to advertise there.
Guess what … Twitter is an advertising-supported, private business not a public commons.
And watch those companies get so surprised when they see a drop in revenue.
Hahahaha.
How did I know one of you chucklefucks would try to conflate stopping the distribution of illegal things with actual victims and stopping a Dr from spreading the information they have that goes against the orthodoxy.
Congratulations raspberries.
"free-for-all hellscape"
Like Reason comments?
I do wonder how most social zealots, left and right, would react to the content and tone of any Reason article comment section. How many would demand censorship and even prosecution?
How many would demand censorship and even prosecution?
*Preet Bharara has entered the chat*
"Elon Musk Should Take a Clear Stand Against Censorship by Proxy"
So, I'll leave out the snark for today - what would 'a clear stand' look like to you Sullum?
Would it include public statements trashing the practice? Would it include releasing business records showing that it was happening and how it was managed? Would it include dissolution of the Trust and Safety council along with the firing of tons of people, including very senior people, who were involved with this?
So, now that Musk is in charge at Twitter he should take a "strong stand" against everything Reason has either denied or tolerated from other management???
Come on Sullum, did you really think your no-enemies-to-the-left schtick wasn't going to be obvious?
If he truly is a free speech absolutist then it doesn't seem to me that he's confused at all. If anyone's confused here it's the people conflating mean words with "hate speech." I'm starting to suspect that Sullum is perfectly fine with "private content restrictions" so long as the only people affected are "meanies" who say things he doesn't like. Seems like a weird position for a libertarian to take...
Where did Sullum talk about only restricting the speech of certain types of people? The quote you gave talks about different classes of speech with no reference to who the speaker is.
"The most disturbing aspect of the “Twitter Files” is the platform’s cozy relationship with federal officials who demanded suppression of speech they considered dangerous."
"Dangerous" to any politico with a D behind the name, you lying pile of TDS-addled shit.
So this isn't just a right wing conspiracy anymore?
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
it's just a giant nothingburger now, try to keep up.
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Government pressure on private platforms to censor or 'guide' moderation is NOT the real problem. Free markets require competition and meaningful competition does not exist here and now. That competition is what creates the Hayekian ability to leverage all the diffuse conflicting sources of knowledge/values/actions. Absent that there ain't no difference between one billionaires decisions re content v one gummints decisions re content.
I agree, competition would be the most reliable bulwark against a slanted moderation policy.
And yet here you two are, saying that government by proxy is totally okay. To hell with that.
Government pressure on private platforms to censor or ‘guide’ moderation is NOT the real problem.
So,
it wasn’t happeningit was happening, but not as bad as you sayIt’s happening, but it’s not the REAL problem.
Jacob - when Reason pays you $20 to write another one of these pieces, are they asking you to just re-hash the same piece that you wrote for them less than a week ago, or is that just the best quality they can hope to get from bottom-feeding content-churners like yourself?
In any event, Musk's plan for Twitter is becoming increasingly clear: he intends it to be a platform for paid propaganda. That's why he's not worried about hate speech, inflammatory rhetoric, or misinformation. Advertisers might leave? Let them. Saudi Arabia, Russia, and China (and the Republican Party) are his new clients. He doesn't need Disney ad spend, or even users, as long as the mainstream media dutifully covers everything he says and the propagandists feel they have a platform.
This, of course, explains why Reason is 100% on Musk's side. Because this is also a paid propaganda site.
This may be the stupidest take I've read about it so far. And that's a low bar. Well done sir
Looks like you're one of the marks. The pattern is clear.
He saw what Parler, Gab, and Truth Social were doing, and thought he could out-compete them by grabbing an established brand with some shadowy financing. That's why he's whipping up the conspiracy theorists and dismantling the moderation infrastructure. He doesn't want Twitter to be a neutral, free-speech governed, public square of ideas for all. He wants it to be a cesspool of extremely engaged, extremist right-wingers who are too stupid to understand how they're being manipulated, so that he can serve content paid for by the people who want to manipulate them.
Kind of like the Reason commentariat.
I take it back, THIS is the stupidest take I've read so far. You keep one upping yourself. good job.
"Shadowy financing" lol
Look at who he got in bed with. Christ.
LOL Ok who exactly is the "shadowy financing" partner in the Twitter buyout? Be specific.
He's got no answer.
Fuck off and die, lefty shit-pile.
Hahahahaha, your narrative manipulation tool got take away from you, and there isn't shit you can do about it.
That’s why he’s not worried about hate speech, inflammatory rhetoric, or misinformation. Advertisers might leave? Let them. Saudi Arabia, Russia, and China (and the Republican Party) are his new clients.
Wrong. Apple said they're stopping advertising. So there went that theory.
The problem for Twitter or other social media company is that achieving balanced moderation is difficult and the working in the absence of moderation is impossible. An unmoderated site will likely descend into the hellscape, most people will avoid, and advertisers will drop. Balanced moderation is difficult because people at the extremes will be critical. Working with government risks censorship, but the same is likely true of a non-governmental panel of experts. When we look at things like health care Twitter would likely be going to the same experts that government goes to for advice. Same is likely true for many other issues. If the majority of experts in an area agreed with a conspiracy theory, it would not be a conspiracy theory.
this is all so much mealy mouthed bullshit.
Twitter was banning people with MDs for not touting the party line on lockdowns. IT was absolutely a arm of the stalinist regime and no one shouldl be advocating for a company to be anywhere near that.
Do you consider some topics too critical to allow uncensored speech? Do you consider some (most) people too, um, uncritical to allow them to see "bad" information?
^ I can answer for him.. Yes. yes he does
It is not really a question of what I see but what will be tolerated. Social media on the internet has to make money and that means it has to have people using it to draw in advertising money. In the case of unregulated speech, you may create environments that people will avoid. That cost you money and may doom the platform. So, you try to balance the platform, but in doing so you may end up favoring one side, likely the side with the most users.
I saw something similar with AM talk radio. Originally it had a variety of viewpoints but as time went on the conservative talk proved to be the most profitable and most stations had a conservative bend. Today you can go to SIRIUSXM and get the programs most to your liking, but you also pay for that service.
The free model works if you have advertisers and that mean having a large user base. That means a balancing act of letting people talk but not creating an environment that people want to avoid.
BTW - I don't use TWITTER but my wife does. She enjoyed many of the discussions, mostly non-political in nature. She reports to me that there are far fewer of those discussions as people are less pleased with the new environment and are choosing not to use it.
So is removing tweets containing porn or threats of criminal violence enough?
Or do advertisers need Twitter to ban users who express doubts about the existence of HaShem?
??? Is that a big topic of discussion, one way or the other, on Twitter?
Is only removing porn and threats of criminal violence too little moderation?
Probably. What I’ve seen in the past couple of weeks is there are a lot of users who don’t want to see other viewpoints or are turned off by a lot of arguing in general.
But Twitter doesn’t need to resort to banning as the only tool. Different users can have different experiences. They could, for example, engineer the algorithms so users of different political stripes go into their own Twitter bubbles.
Part of the problem when trying to engage the most eyeballs possible is that people will say they are offended by X but then their actual behavior is to engage with X. For example, all the Twitter users who found Trump offensive but followed him anyway.
They could, for example, engineer the algorithms so users of different political stripes go into their own Twitter bubbles.
Wow. Sounds like the perfect Free Speech utopia right there. That's exactly the kind of 'town square' people that have been criticizing content moderation want, I suppose.
This tendency you have observed where people avoid arguments by retreating to information bubbles is likely the single biggest reason for the increasing division and polarization in politics in western democracies, and the U.S. especially. When people don't have to engage with those that disagree with them as they talk politics, instead only conversing with like-minded people, then they only have their views reinforced, never challenged. Once their views solidify into part of their identity, disagreement is an attack on who they are. It certainly isn't a cause for self-reflection and skepticism of what they think. They can't just 'agree to disagree' and let it go, either.
Part of the problem when trying to engage the most eyeballs possible is that people will say they are offended by X but then their actual behavior is to engage with X. For example, all the Twitter users who found Trump offensive but followed him anyway.
I have no idea whether many people that found Trump offensive really did follow him anyway, but 'sharing', 'retweeting', and 'liking' is what counts as engagement in the Twitter world, right? It seems that your thoughts here are the opposite of people retreating into bubbles.
“Sounds like the perfect Free Speech utopia right there.”
Is Twitter truly a free speech forum or a public commons, or is it an advertiser-supported site?
Is Twitter truly a free speech forum or a public commons, or is it an advertiser-supported site?
I was being facetious. I certainly agree that it is the latter, but people at one end of the political spectrum have been cheering on Musk because they want it to be the former. Or, rather, they've seen that no one competent in running a social media platform is making anything that can come within an order of magnitude of Twitter's reach, so they want their side to be able to say what they want on it without moderation.
“… but ‘sharing’, ‘retweeting’, and ‘liking’ is what counts as engagement in the Twitter world, right?“
Not to the advertisers, who are the ones ultimately paying Twitter’s bills. To advertisers, the measure of engagement is ad impressions on users.
To advertisers, the measure of engagement is ad impressions on users.
Good point.
Balanced moderation huh? sounds like unbalanced censorship to me, who gets to determine what's moderate and what's not? back to square one.
What about the owners of the site.
The government also cannot force twitter or any other platform to publish anything. Further the government can require warning labels- see cigarettes and alcohol. What is really concerning is Musk is freely censoring people who make fun of him and stripped Ukraine of its national status on twitter. Is he beholden to a foreign power now?
Twitter is not the publisher is an atheist user tweets, "God doesn't exist."
God does not need Elon Musk's help to handle atheists.
God does not need Elon Musk’s help to handle atheists.
We atheists don't spend a second worrying about God doing anything to "handle" us. Hint: Because we don't believe that he exists.
But we will worry about people that do believe in God doing things to "handle" us because of our lack of belief.
You completely missed the point. Elon Musk is not liable to what any users write in their tweets. Just as God doesn't need Musk for Judgment Day (according to Judeo-Christian belief), Musk doesn't need government for any judgment he does. And neither should governments need Musk to keep their own citizens accountable before the law.
The rest of your comment is quite rich coming from you considering atheists have been behind some of the biggest atrocities in world history with the Marxist atheist states, far more than any religious people have ever done. If anything, it seems like people like you want government to "handle" us. You should repent of your evil ways.
If anyone else wants to refute JasonT20, be it here or elsewhere in this page, please exercise your agency in doing so.
What is really concerning is Musk is freely censoring people who make fun of him and stripped Ukraine of its national status on twitter. Is he beholden to a foreign power now?
Yet another thing I don't get about the right's thinking: A publicly-traded company beholden to a wide range of shareholders that want a return on their investment more than any political agenda can't be trusted to provide a politically neutral forum. So, they'd rather it be owned entirely by a single, super-wealthy individual* to run it according to his whims.
Do these people really value liberty, or is it that they just want to be ruled by authoritarians and oligarchs that they like?
*An individual, by the way, that probably could afford to let it completely tank, since his net worth just a few years ago was less than what he paid to buy Twitter. (SpaceX is most responsible for his enormous jump in net worth over the last three years, apparently. - currently at $174 billion according to Forbes)
Do these people really value liberty, or is it that they just want to be ruled by authoritarians and oligarchs that they like?
Yeah, this concern is totally about oligarchs and not at all about the fact that leftists are absolutely seething about their toy being taken away.
Other than some notable right-wing accounts getting unsuspended, nothing about Twitter has changed. It's just the people on the left having a fit and retreating further into their own bubble at Mastodon.
Musk isn't censoring people. He only bans impersonators (a very common rule since the beginning of the internet) and is free to block whomever he pleases--he does not forfeit the right to block other users like everyone else does, just because he's in ownership of Twitter.
When people are talking about hate speech, they are talking abut something which is so vague that it undefinble. If "hate speech" were made a crime, it would unconstitutionally vague. That is why I have always opposed the term Hate Crime. Not only do we not know what constitutes hate, it is a thought and cannot be a crime. What we have in enhancement of penalties for crimes which were motivated by inter-group hatred. There is a world of difference between a Hate Crime and a Hate Enhancement.
If people understood the reasoning behind hate enhancements for violent crimes, they might have a wiser understanding of hate speech itself. (1) It is NOT a crime (2) How do we respond to speech which is total lies (3) How do we respond to speech which is total lies and motivated on hate of another group. We need to deal with these issues and not have someone impose the rules from on-high.
When society finds the motive behind certain actions extra harmful to society as well as to the individual, society tries to deter that behavior by increasing the penalty with an enhancement. The murder enhancement of lying in wait began when highway robbers in old England who lie in wait for travellers on horse back or by wagon and then rob them. The interference with travel and commerce was harmful to the society as a whole and not just to the traveler or the merchant.
When dislike of another race or ethnicity or sexual orientation is the motive for a violent crime, a Hate Enhancement is in order. Inter-group violence invites retaliation and in a worse case scenario can result in civil war. Thus, society as a whole has an interest in stopping violence against individuals when hate of their group is the motive for the crime.
Isn't applying the libertarian principle here easy? Just let Twitter operate like the business it is. Let it do what it wants to secure higher profits.
If that involves censoring Nazis and pedophiles, so be it. It's capitalism. If Elon wants to boot everyone off who does not worship at the balls of his cock, so be it. That's capitalism too.
All of a sudden conservatives keep finding ways they want to use the US federal government to force private actors to do things, with laws.
Well I always knew the day would come. You can't do fascism properly with limited government.
I agree: let freedom ring.
If Twitter wants to suppress news so that Joe Biden can win an election, so be it. If Russians want to post "Hillary vs. Jesus" memes on Facebook, so be it.
The whole "democracy is at stake!" histrionics are completely unnecessary. I've been saying it for six years.
Yet that's not what happened. Twitter did some censorship in behalf of government. That's not okay, it's a violation of the 1st Amendment. Neither you or Tony seem capable of understanding this.
The internal communications that Elon Musk, Twitter's new owner, has been gradually revealing to a select few journalists show that the company's former executives arbitrarily applied the platform's vague rules and surreptitiously suppressed content from disfavored accounts. [emphasis added]
Why are none of those cheering about the Twitter Files seeing the issue with this? So, you think that the old guard at Twitter was being ideologically biased in its moderation decisions and lacked transparency. Okay, I get that. But why are you so willing to trust that Elon Musk is giving these "select few journalists" all of the information or that the journalists were selected because of their lack of bias? Does Musk have a history of being open and honest with information? A track record of keeping his distance from government as he runs his businesses? Or is it just that he's anti-woke?
Being skeptical is essential when dealing with information of any type. "How do you know that?" We should always ask that question before accepting something someone else says is true. Then we should continue to probe and follow up with further questions about their sources and reasoning until we can't think of any more ways that their assertion could be false.
Even better, we should practice doing that to ourselves. To paraphrase physicist Richard Feynman, the important thing is to be sure that you don't fool yourself, for you are the easiest person for you to fool. What other people trying to fool us do that is the most successful is to convince us to fool ourselves.
What are some questions that we should be asking about the Twitter Files, if we want to be sure that we aren't being fooled into believing something that isn't true?
Why are none of those cheering about the Twitter Files seeing the issue with this?
Because the line you highlighted isn't an issue, and the questions you're raising are concern trolling because the files make Twitter's previous regime look bad.
Because the line you highlighted isn’t an issue...
Oh? Letting a few selected gatekeepers have access to information Musk wants them to see to then share with the rest of us doesn't concern you? You have no doubts about whether Musk is holding things back that might undercut his desired narrative (whatever that is)? Or that he has edited what these journalists see to remove relevant context? Why simply trust that everything is on the up and up at his end?
...the questions you’re raising are concern trolling because the files make Twitter’s previous regime look bad.
Or, you just don't want to answer them.
Would members of Congress coerce Twitter into censoring photos of nude prisoners, being tortured by American guards, at foreign torture sites?
Would it be censored on pornographic or obscene grounds, if American officials perpetrated the obscenity of war crimes – outlawed by Ronald Reagan’s Torture Treaty?
The truth is censorship laws are nearly impossible to write into law. That’s why some members of Congress are doing it through coercion and not laws.
One could make a very strong argument that the greatest harm to the reputations of the FBI and DOJ happen when they assume unconstitutional “Morality Police” roles.
Since acting as “Morality Police” is usually policing “legal” activity - no laws being violated - these agencies use illegal covert tactics like “Cointelpro Blacklisting Torture” for decades or life of their innocent targets.
Covert activities is the greatest danger here. These Cointelpro like tactics are designed to make an arrest or indictment, these tactics are designed to inflict covert punishments and discredit their targets.
Essentially this is what some members of Congress are creating with illegal censorship programs - government officials coercing and deputizing private companies to censor and blacklist.
In these type of illegal covert operations, judges are totally bypassed from the process, subverting their jurisdiction of constitutional “judicial review” over the 2 political branches of government.
This type of constitutional subversion (also lethal to innocent targets) is just as bad as the January 6 guys - also subverting constitutional due process.
“ The most disturbing aspect of the “Twitter Files” is the platform’s cozy relationship with federal officials who demanded suppression of speech they considered dangerous.”
As if lying Communist shitbag Hackjob Sullum hasn’t himself advocated for exactly that on this very site.
Please link to an example of Sullum’s calling for suppression of speech he considers dangerous.
Censorship “by Proxy”?
People here & elsewhere are all a twitter about how & where to draw the line between a business’s right to control one’s own platform & prohibited censorship per the First Amendment (1A). Maybe even NapolElon is unclear how to draw the line. For those in the know of established 1A interpretation, it’s really very simple: no one in business (owner or employee) can run afoul of 1A since a business is not the government, *unless* the business conspires with the government to censor at the latter’s bidding. In that exceptional case, the business becomes what is called a “state actor” & is thus constrained by 1A the same as is the government.
I believe this is what Mr Sullum’s found “most disturbing” & was the point of his editorial. The debate here goes off the rails when people digress (incl. Sullum) from commentary on the revelations found in the Twitter Files which show the platform was being a state actor in the Bad Old Days. Mr Sullum could have been clearer about Twitter’s transgressions by explicitly labeling them as the actions of a “state actor” instead of clumsily using “by proxy”. State actions are what I myself find the “most disturbing”.
Why do you think all these people, governments and lobbyists are more upset about “hatred” which is merely an emotion than “lying” which is coercion?
It’s simple. Knowledge is power.THEY NEED TO LIE to maintain their power over you, us, which they convert into their riches.
Emotions are a basic tool of propaganda. Keeping them in the media maintains our brainwashing.
Criminalize lying and demand that truth be demonstrated with correctly applied logic and science and put an end to propaganda, misinformation AND hatred.
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Governments criminalizing what they judge to be "lying" is what we have NOW, moron.
You and most are missing the point. Even the headline of this article is meant to diminish the acts from criminal to non-criminal.
When any government agent enlists the aid of a third party, that party becomes an AGENT of government by definition. We have at least three issues with that.
1. This not only was government and the DNC and Biden Election Committee and CDC asking for help to violate civil rights, they MET regularly to discuss HOW to do this.
2. This makes the charges against ALL of them CONSPIRACY to violate civil rights under color of authority.
3. The FBI is charged with investigating and arresting any agent of government who attempts to violate civil rights under color of authority. If done without violence or injury the penalty is 5 years in federal prison. With physical injury it is 15 years and with death it could lead to life or a death sentence.
4. The FBI was involved and knew of it. This means that there is no one guarding the hen house at all. They were conspirators.
I hope you are beginning to see that the headline calls this "censorship by proxy" in an attempt to diminish public opinion of. what has happened. What happened was an ORGANIZED violation of civil rights under color of law, for personal, financial, political gain or gain of power. That simple. Each person involved needs to be in PRISON for the MAXIMUM term in order to assure that this stops permanently.
You trolls obviously have strong feelings for me.
Much to your chagrin they have no effect on me. It’s on you.
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2022 elections have shown an uptick on dems in power threatening anyone who questions election integrity with crimes. Quite scary.
That is not what I said.
In your own irrational rush to judge you completely failed to comprehend what you replied to. Like the government does.
We don’t need more of that, what you do.
The government has no interest in criminalizing lying. They do want to control the narrative.
I SAID, “ Criminalize lying and demand that truth be demonstrated with correctly applied logic and science and put an end to propaganda, misinformation AND hatred.”
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And Reason celebrated because they weren't endorsed by Trump.
Misek is a lying pile of Nazi shit, too stupid to understand the concepts of "evidence" and "relevance":
1) “There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence.”
That’s a lie.
Contemporarily, there was ample evidence in carcasses, skeletons, other human remains, mounds of possessions, gold dentures, etc.
Even in 1994, comparisons cyanide ions remaining on the walls of buildings where Zyklon-B was used sparing as a fumigant and the walls of the cellars at Auschwitz shows drastic deltas: Institute for Forensic Research, Cracow: Post-Leuchter Report (archive.org)
2) “Any activity that demonstrates and shares evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred”
Irrelevance
3) “The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.”
Lie or possible attempt at sophistry; cyanide is the active ingredient in Zyklon-B.
4) “Jews have published books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging piles of gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.
But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it years later.”
Bullshit. It is possible to die from contact, but the primary cause of death from Zyklon-B is ingestion of the gas containing the cyanide.
5) “And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.”
Irrelevant attempt to poison the well; not evidence.
6) “Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.
The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.
The story is told by one Jewish survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.
She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.
They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.
Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.
There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.
There are military aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.
Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school”
To be honest, I haven’t heard of this but as regards its evidence regarding the Holocaust, it says nothing at all; it is totally irrelevant.7) “Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.
Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of”
Cite missing for YOUR claim, but:
“Allied forces knew about Holocaust two years before discovery of concentration camps, secret documents reveal”
[…]
“The Allied Powers were aware of the scale of the Jewish Holocaust two-and-a-half years earlier than is generally assumed, and had even prepared war crimes indictments against Adolf Hitler and his top Nazi commanders…”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/holocaust-allied-forces-knew-before-concentration-camp-discovery-us-uk-soviets-secret-documents-a7688036.html
8) “Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?”
OK, this goes beyond parody, and this represents the Nazi shit’s level of gullibility.
Simply, yes, the Nazis did NOT want to broadcast to the world that they were engaged in mass-murder, as the post-war interrogations proved. If there’s ‘mental gymnastics’ here, Nazi shit just got a unanimous “1”.
9) “The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers”
Cite missing.
“The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.
Are you performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?”
Is Nazi shit so gullible as to believe the Nazis would welcome the Red Cross to the death camps? Seems so. Value as “evidence” = zero
10) “Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system used for years before the war employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.
Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.
Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.”
Arm-waving; see about for Zyklon-B concentrations. Value as “evidence” = zero
11) “According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.”
Arm-waving, Value as “evidence” = zero
12) “Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.”
One approximation, one number many assumptions, no support. Value as “evidence” = zero.
13) “If Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.
Which stupid lie is more believable? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.”
More arm-waving, weak attempt at well poisoning, zero evidence.
14) “Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. Only to coerce sympathy to raise money. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.
The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.”
Anti-sematic rant, followed by idiotic conspiracy theory; not anywhere close to “evidence”.
15) “There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.”
I’ll bet there were all sorts of letters which were embarrassing during WWII. Try finding some evidence
16) “The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.
These Jewish leaders are admitting it. Are they lying?
“We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.
“The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”
Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.
The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.
Smells strongly of “DID YOU HEAR WHAT TRUMP SAID!!!!!”, but regardless, even if true, it is irrelevant to the question.
Nazi scum responds with further bullshit, claims the above is only a flesh wound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UijhbHvxWrA
Stick your head in a gas oven and die, Nazi shit.
It is the government that criminalize things. If lying is criminalized, it will be the government that decides what is a lie and what is truth. They won't care what your standards are. They won't put you in charge of making that decision. You're an idiot.
This is the third time this troll has re-pasted his pathetic attempt to refute my statements.
Each time I have soundly refuted every every one of his numbered claims, here, which also links to his previous failed attempts.
https://reason.com/2022/12/09/adam-schiff-attempts-censorship-by-proxy-demanding-action-to-suppress-hate-speech-on-twitter/?comments=true#comments
You stand refuted. Try to keep up.
At 4:00, Misek will make Sevo two feet tall.
If we don’t hold the government accountable to ensure they do what’s right, it’s only on us when they don’t.
Like I said, if you’re not part of the solution, then you’re the problem.
Everyone, this is what propaganda and brainwashing is capable of doing to you.
These people have discarded rational discourse.
Logic and science isn’t merely not required, it’s appalling to them. They troll.
Is that how you really want to feel when faced with a rational counter argument? It’s bigotry.
Wake up and pull the wool from your eyes.
So what's the Final Solution?
Lol Rob Misek is a faggot and unbelievably whiny
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Lying is already necessarily a crime in court and contracts to maintain civilized justice and the economy. As a crime it isn’t protected speech. That isn’t going away.
So criminalize the coercion of lying throughout society to realize the same benefits.
The fact that the corrupt don’t want to criminalize lying only makes doing so that much more attractive.
“The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink.“ George Orwell
Was that your point?