Section 230 Heads to the Supreme Court
The crucial protector of internet speech might have some cracks in its armor.

In the summer of 1995, then-Rep. Chris Cox (R–Calif.) read an article that left him unsettled. A New York trial court had ruled that Prodigy, one of the early online service providers, could be held liable for allegedly defamatory statements posted on one of its bulletin boards. What made the decision "surpassingly stupid," as Cox would later describe it, was that Prodigy had incurred this legal exposure by doing what we now call content moderation. Prodigy was being penalized for trying to provide a family-friendly product. To eliminate this "moderator's dilemma"—a legal regime in which an online forum that moderates some content becomes legally responsible for all the content it hosts—Cox and then-Rep. Ron Wyden (D–Ore.) introduced the bill that eventually became what's now known as Section 230.
With limited exceptions, Section 230 protects platforms—from large websites and apps to individual blogs and social media accounts—from liability for disseminating speech created by others. That rule allowed the internet to flourish. By pinning culpability for illegal material squarely on the person who created it, Section 230 let internet services grow and profit by offering spaces for user-generated content. By filling the internet with different speech environments, the services' innovation enabled a wide array of people to find places online where they feel comfortable speaking. Section 230 was a boon for free speech, for the internet, and for free speech on the internet.
The Supreme Court has never heard a Section 230 case—until now. Earlier this month, the justices agreed to review Gonzalez v. Google, in which the plaintiffs argue that YouTube's "targeted recommendation" of videos falls outside the Section 230 shield.
All the major platforms do "targeted recommending" of some sort or another: On the vast modern internet, curation of information is an essential service. When they examine Section 230 next year, the justices could end the internet as we know it.
Why Section 230?
A few years before the Prodigy decision, another early online service provider, CompuServe, had defeated a similar suit. The court there had concluded that CompuServe could not be held responsible for its users' speech because it was simply a distributor of others' material. The key point was that CompuServe did not know, and made no effort to discover, what was said in its forums.
Prodigy, by contrast, had monitored its service in an effort to find and remove content that ran against "the culture of the millions of American families" that it "aspire[d] to serve." A distributor, such as a bookstore or library, faces liability for others' speech only if it knew or should have known of the speech's illegality. A publisher selling books or newspapers faces much stricter liability for the speech it hosts. By making a "choice" to "gain the benefits of editorial control," the New York court declared, Prodigy had transformed itself from a distributor into a publisher, thereby exposing itself to "greater liability than CompuServe and other computer networks that make no such choice."
Cox and Wyden wanted to protect services in Prodigy's position from publisher liability. Section 230's pivotal provision states: "No provider or user of an interactive computer service"—a term defined to include online platforms of all stripes—"shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." Usually, on the internet, only the initial speaker of a statement can be held liable for what the statement says.
Originally called the Internet Freedom and Family Empowerment Act, Cox and Wyden's bill was hitched, in the commotion of the legislative process, to a very different Senate bill, the Communications Decency Act, which sought in essence to ban pornography from the internet. Both bills were then passed as part of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. A year later the Supreme Court struck down the Senate's anti-porn regulation as a violation of the First Amendment. Cox's and Wyden's deregulatory measure survived this divorce unscathed. It even kept the name of its unconstitutional former spouse—to this day it is misleadingly known as Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.
A few months after the Supreme Court invalidated the "true" Communications Decency Act, Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson, an accomplished judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, issued the first major decision on Section 230. Under Section 230, says Zeran v. America Online (1997), "lawsuits seeking to hold [an online] service provider liable for its exercise of a publisher's traditional editorial functions—such as deciding whether to publish, withdraw, postpone, or alter content—are barred."
As Wilkinson saw it, Section 230 cannot protect the function of publishing without also protecting the function of distributing, because the greater protection includes the lesser. To see why, suppose that someone objects to a piece of content hosted by a platform. The platform then knows about the content and, knowing about it, must decide what to do with it. It is put to the "choice" of "editorial control." In working out whether to leave the content up, downrank it, label it, or take it down, the platform approaches the content as a publisher would, and in so doing enjoys the protection of Section 230.
Zeran proved enormously influential. Following its lead, courts have held that Section 230 protects platforms from liability for chatroom remarks, social media posts, forwarded emails, dating profiles, product and employer reviews, business location listings, and more. Thanks to Section 230, the internet's most popular destinations—Google, Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, Wikipedia—are filled with user-generated content.
Fair and Unfair Criticism
Courts have set some limits around Section 230. One prominent decision let the plaintiffs sue a website for expressly inviting users to supply input that violated fair-housing laws. By asking specific questions about legally protected categories such as sex and sexual orientation, the court held, the website had become the "provider," at least in part, of the resulting content. Another ruling opened a platform to liability for offering a "speed filter" app that supposedly encouraged reckless driving. The basis of the suit was not the high speeds the plaintiffs' children had posted on the app before dying in a car wreck, but rather the app's allegedly negligent product design.
Yet in lawsuits that seek to hold a platform liable for the substance of third-party speech, Section 230 has held firm. Countless victims of online abuse and harassment have found themselves out of luck.
Consider the case of Kenneth Zeran. On April 25, 1995, six days after the Oklahoma City bombing, he started receiving threatening phone calls, some of which included death threats. Someone, it turned out, had posted on an AOL bulletin board an ad offering "Naughty Oklahoma T-Shirts" ("Visit Oklahoma," said one; "it's a blast") and bearing Zeran's home phone number. Further posts appeared (bumper stickers and keychains were thrown in the mix), and the calls increased to hundreds a day. Zeran could not determine who had created the posts; because of Section 230, he had no recourse against AOL for failing to take his plight seriously.
Does Section 230 enable this sort of misbehavior? Is there more racism and misogyny online because of it? That's what some on the left think. President Joe Biden recently accused platforms of "spreading hate and fueling violence," and he vowed to "get rid" of their "immunity."
Whether social media generates radicalism is a fraught empirical question. Regardless, there is little reason to expect that removing Section 230 would improve matters. Recall the moderator's dilemma: Before Section 230, a platform could limit its liability either by doing virtually no content moderation or by doing lots of it. Remove Section 230 and the dilemma returns. Some services would reach for distributor status, while others would embrace publisher status. On the "distributor" platforms, hate speech and misinformation would flourish like never before. The "publisher" platforms, meanwhile, would remove content the moment anyone asserts that it's defamatory. In practice, that means these services would expel people who dare to accuse the powerful of discrimination, corruption, or incompetence.
And let's not forget the Constitution. Most of the speech that Biden thinks is "killing people" is legal and protected under the First Amendment. Without Section 230, platforms might remove more "lawful but awful" speech in order to avoid a flurry of lawsuits. Then again, they might not, for the lawsuits complaining about "lawful but awful" speech are not the ones that would succeed. Such suits would advance further in litigation (probably to discovery and then summary judgment) than they would with Section 230 around (which causes them to get dismissed at the pleading stage), but only to fail in the end. Erasing Section 230 is therefore likely to entrench large platforms (which can endure the cost of seeing lots of doomed lawsuits to the finish) at the expense of new entrants (which can't).
Many on the right want to scrap Section 230 too. Often their strategy is to claim that the law says things it does not say. Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) was an early proponent of the "platform versus publisher" myth—the notion that "platforms" must exhibit viewpoint neutrality (as measured…somehow?) or else be deemed "publishers" lacking Section 230 immunity. The law contains no such distinction. Indeed, as we have seen, Section 230 encourages publisher-like behavior.
Speaking only for himself, in a separate opinion issued two years ago, Justice Clarence Thomas argued that courts have "relied on policy and purpose arguments" to give Section 230 too broad a scope. He went on to propose that Section 230 does not shield platforms from distributor liability. It is true that in considering Section 230, courts often invoke policy and purpose. But the text of the law is broad: An immunity from being treated as "the publisher" of third-party content is a big immunity indeed. Moreover, Zeran got it right: Being protected as a publisher logically encompasses being protected as a distributor. Otherwise Section 230 would be nothing more than a notice-and-takedown scheme—something that would have left companies like Prodigy almost no better off than before.
If there were any doubt that Section 230 is not so narrow, we could dispel it with a look at policy and purpose. In this instance the statutory policy and purpose were passed as part of the law. Section 230 itself states that it aims "to promote the continued development of the Internet" and "to preserve the vibrant and competitive free market" that exists there.
Taking Section 230 for Granted
ISIS killed Nohemi Gonzalez in the November 2015 Paris attacks. There is no direct link between YouTube and Gonzalez's death, no evidence that YouTube was used to plan the attacks or recruit the attackers. Nonetheless, Gonzalez's family sued YouTube's owner, Google, claiming that YouTube had hosted ISIS recruitment videos around the time of the attacks. The trial court applied Section 230 and dismissed the suit. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit affirmed. Now the case is headed to the Supreme Court.
The plaintiffs contend that their lawsuit is not about the terrorist videos themselves, but about YouTube recommending those videos to users. But recommending content to users is classic publisher behavior. It's what a newspaper does when it puts a story on page A1 instead of page D6. To hold a platform liable for how it presents user-generated content is to treat it as a publisher—exactly what Section 230 forbids. If ISIS had not uploaded videos to YouTube, YouTube would have had no terrorist content to serve up. This is a tell that the plaintiffs' suit is really about the user-generated content and is a loser under Section 230, notwithstanding the tragedy of Gonzalez's death. That YouTube neither solicited nor intended to recommend terrorist content specifically should clinch the matter.
The Supreme Court typically takes no interest in statutory interpretation unless the courts of appeals disagree about the meaning of a statute; only then do the justices step in to resolve the dispute. When it comes to the "targeted recommendation" theory, two circuits, the Ninth and the Second, have held that Section 230 governs as normal, and none has disagreed. The Court has granted review in Gonzalez in the absence of a circuit split—an ominous sign that some of the justices have an itch to do mischief.
Those justices might wish to argue, as some dissenting judges in the courts of appeals have, that the exceptional "targeted-ness" of algorithmic recommendations makes them special. But targeting content at people is what publishers do. It's unclear why a platform should lose its Section 230 protection for targeting well. (Remember that Section 230 aspires "to promote the continued development of the Internet.") And if well-targeted information produces legal exposure, how is a YouTube video recommendation to be distinguished from a Google search result? Are the justices really so hostile to "Big Tech" that they'd be willing to run the risk of trashing search engines?
Section 230 has many detractors who insist that the internet would be better off without it. The critics are strangely self-assured about this. Their confidence is especially puzzling when one considers that some of them detest Section 230 for enabling speech (namely, hate speech and misinformation) while others loathe it for enabling "censorship" (that is, content moderation). The fact that so many believe so strongly that killing Section 230 will serve utterly disparate ends should give any serious person pause.
We've apparently lost track of how far we've come. The media used to talk at us. The internet gave us more power to talk with one another—to speak up, to collaborate, to protest, to be heard. Far too few people seem sufficiently worried that curtailing Section 230's support for user-generated content might destroy what makes the internet great.
Section 230 is almost as old as the commercial internet it safeguards. But it has worn pretty well. It has a proud past, and it remains important in the present. If the Supreme Court bleaches its future, that will be a shame.
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Prodigy was being penalized for trying to provide a family-friendly product.
Serioulsy? Opposing FOSTA and then claiming Prodigy's innocence based on "providing a family-friendly product"? Do you people have no scruples? Even if you grant Prodigy the full faith and credit of simply trying to provide a family-friendly product, a claim that S230 specifically avoids and that FOSTA 'attempts' to remediate. What has that got to do with the selective editing, a.k.a. publishing, in favor of a company *factually* perpetrating securities fraud?
Do you really think other people don't have Wikipedia or access to the internet to learn the facts otherwise?
Prodigy was being penalized for trying to provide a family-friendly product.
I mean, FFS, this is 24k, genuine-article, 90s-era Neo-Con Moral Majority bullshit complete with a certificate of authenticity and you #resist retards are peddling it as historical fact in favor of Congress regulating free speech on the internet.
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Does Section 230 enable this sort of misbehavior? ...
That's what some on the left think.
No. It's not what some think. It's literally what you're arguing.
Section 230 enables (e.g.) AOL to participate in doxxing and leave the victim of the doxxing with, in the specific case, no legal recourse or recompense for the doxxing. A legal recourse for an act that, absent AOL's (or Facebook's or Twitter's) targeted and selective amplification, the founding principle of their business model(s), materially harms the victim worse than if the perpetrators had published in a newspaper or put up flyers. Whether it's doxxing of Taylor Lorenz or the counter doxxing of LibsOfTikTok or Kiwifarms and Keffals, S230 specifically facilitates this. Intrinsically as designed. More, supposedly, inseparable than the distinction between publishing and distributing (which, prior to S230 and Wilkinson's judicial brain fart was already distinguished by Cubby, Compuserve, Title II, the 1A, etc., etc.)
Moreover, Zeran got it right: Being protected as a publisher logically encompasses being protected as a distributor.
No, this is abjectly ass backwards. It's categorically false. A distributor is a much larger, less-specific, and more fundamental entity of free speech. It's like saying "Being protected as a published author logically encompasses being protected as the operator of a printing press." Fuck no. One can operate a printing press without being an author, one cannot be a published author without using or employing a printing press. These are your own goddamned precepts.
The fact that so many believe so strongly that killing Section 230 will serve utterly disparate ends should give any serious person pause.
The fact that a law passed by Congress that's so vague as to serve both greater censorship and enabling greater hate speech shouldn't give libertarians, of either side, the slightest bit of pause.
Liberals: "Killing Section 230 will allow us to forcibly hair-smell those EVIL Rethugglicans!!! And shut them up for good! 'Cause WE are PURE good!"
Conservatives: "Killing Section 230 will allow us to forcibly pussy-grab those EVIL Demon-Craps!!! And shut them up for good! 'Cause WE are PURE good!"
"Just the facts" (plain for all to see) are cut and dried! Case closed!
Translation: The crony capitalist handout to big corporations may have been abused by government for even more crony capitalist handouts.
Let’s hope SCOTUS limits Section 230. And let’s hope the next Congress kills it completely.
"The crony capitalist handout to big corporations ..."
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer… No matter HOW many times you tell your “Big Lie”, it is NOT true! You’re part of the mob, aren’t you, gangster? For a small fee, you tell small businesses that you will “protect” them… From you and your mob! Refute the below, ye greedy authoritarian who wants to shit all over the concept of private property!
Look, I’ll make it pretty simple for simpletons. A prime argument of enemies of Section 230 is, since the government does such a HUGE favor for owners of web sites, by PROTECTING web site owners from being sued (in the courts of Government Almighty) as a “publisher”, then this is an unfair treatment of web site owners! Who SHOULD (lacking “unfair” section 230 provisions) be able to get SUED for the writings of OTHER PEOPLE! And punished by Government Almighty, for disobeying any and all decrees from Government Almighty’s courts, after getting sued!
In a nutshell: Government Almighty should be able to boss around your uses of your web site, because, after all, Government Almighty is “protecting” you… From Government Almighty!!!
Wow, just THINK of what we could do with this logic! Government Almighty is “protecting” you from getting sued in matters concerning who you chose to date or marry… In matters concerning what line of work you chose… What you eat and drink… What you read… What you think… Therefore, Government Almighty should be able to boss you around on ALL of these matters, and more! The only limits are the imaginations and power-lusts of politicians!
Fascists like you, SQRLSY, won’t stop at anything in order to defend the corporate-fascist propaganda machine.
Without Section 230, platforms might remove more "lawful but awful" speech in order to avoid a flurry of lawsuits.
As opposed to now when they remove speech because the government or their woke zombie employees don't like it. Oh my God, without 230, these platforms might start censoring and labeling opinions and truthful information "misinformation" or "lacking context".
How did the author write that sentence with a straight face?
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I suspect they do that partly to appease the government that is threatening to regulate them. If social media platforms advertise their bias then it's up to you to decide whether to post on their service. When the government regulates that service it's a violation of both the platform's First Amendment rights and the free speech rights of the people who post opinions on them. Craven services like Facebook and Twitter who would rather cave in to threats rather to stand up to them and fight them do not deserve our support. But that's not a good reason to let the others go down the drain in the process.
People who want to to toss out Section 230 are those who want to REGULATE AND CONTROL YOUR SPEECH ONLINE.
People wanting to use government to impose their will on others. Right here in this comment section we had a woodchipper post that could have shut down Reason and sent the personal information of EVERY ONE of you to the douchebag in question. It was only Section 230 that stopped it.
If you don't like how Facebook has more lunatic posts than kitten and grandkid posts, you're free to start your own social media. If you don't like how Musk is running Twitter you're free to start your own social media. What you are not free to do is use the government to get your way.
This is a libertarian site, not a culture warrior site or a knee jerking woke site. If you don't like the Commentariat, go somewhere else. But get rid of Section 230 and and there will be no where safe to go. Biden will be in charge of your content. Or Trump. Or Harris. or Desantis. Or whatever fool gets into the White House next. Maybe things will go your way for four years or maybe eight, but eventually your enemy will get into office and then he will use the tools you gave him to come after you.
Thanks much Brandybuck!!!
Sad to say, evil power pigs (of "both sides") imagine that they can pussy-grab "the enemy", and said "enemy" will (always and forever) be entirely too stupid and powerless to EVER pussy-grab the pussy-grabbers right back!
Has this EVER been tried before? What were the results?
"But get rid of Section 230 and and there will be no where safe to go. Biden will be in charge of your content. Or Trump. Or Harris. or Desantis. Or whatever fool gets into the White House next. Maybe things will go your way for four years or maybe eight, but eventually your enemy will get into office and then he will use the tools you gave him to come after you."
The obvious solution to that problem is to make sure that you "never lose another election".
Then the NEXT problem becomes, the votes might get counted honestly, and you then lose the election!
Trump and Powell (Sidney) are here with solutions for THAT!
“Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party!”
Why is it?
If you need proof of what I say, read https://reason.com/2020/12/20/desperate-to-stop-biden-from-taking-office-trump-suggests-military-intervention-voting-machine-seizures-and-appointing-sidney-powell-to-investigate-her-own-fraud-claims/ Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims
Trump flunkies want to use martial law to hold new elections in swing states that didn’t vote Trump. Use the military to force a do-over where the people didn’t vote for Trump like they were supposed to. Give them a second bite at the apple.
And there will be endless do-overs till these wayward slobs do things the RIGHT way, and vote for Der TrumpfenFuhrer!
Those states who voted for Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Texas, for instance? And now that time has gone by, and millions of Texans have seen yet MORE of the “true stripes” of the Trumptatorshit… And they voted for Trump, but are SOOOO disgusted by now, they want to vote differently by now… Do THEY get a do-over?
Let’s selectively re-play this game till the Trumptatorshit lasts forever!
The ONLY way that states that DID vote for the continuation of the Trumptatorshit, will get a re-vote, to make it all “fair” to people who’ve changed their minds, by now, or who were excluded from voting by “R” machinations or being too busy or sick that day, to vote… The ONLY way that voters in THESE states will get a “second bite at the apple”, is to make up utterly fantastical LIES about the “R” party’s cheating, collusion with Lizard Men, etc.!
If the Lizard Men stole it last time, what will keep them from stealing it the next time around?
What we are CLEARLY evolving towards here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!
WHY, oh WHY might it be, that people who don’t like the history of 1-party states, are afraid to vote “R” any more?
"The obvious solution to that problem is to make sure that you “never lose another election”.
If you're Libertarian, every election is a loss. Some other guy wins every time.
"If you don’t like how Facebook has more lunatic posts than kitten and grandkid posts, you’re free to start your own social media. If you don’t like how Musk is running Twitter you’re free to start your own social media."
This is absolutely true, but unlikely. The article states:
"Thanks to Section 230, the internet's most popular destinations—Google, Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, Wikipedia—are filled with user-generated content."
Five destinations dominate the entire internet. Has the section 230 been at all responsible for this extreme concentration, and wouldn't say, a thousand destinations dominating the internet be preferable?
Well, the customers have spoken, and we (apparently I guess) have "the Big Five" with lion's shares of these things. If the lions stray from customer needs, they will be punished by the customers. Why does this need "fixed", and what methods do you propose to use to "fix" it?
("Winner take all" is also prevalent in sports, acting, music, writing, and other arts. Even in baby-making, by the likes of elephant seals and Hershel Walker! Do these things, too, need to be "fixed"? Ignore my snarky aside, please, about the baby-making; I'm not so serious about THAT particular one.)
The internet wasn't always dominated by a handful of platforms. Originally it was more of a free for all. I'm curious if section 230 contributed to the concentration. Don't these platforms use their size as an excuse for their inability to moderate their content? A thousand smaller platforms instead of five giants would make the moderation more practical and these smaller platforms more accountable. I don't follow the issue very closely at all, so please correct any misconceptions I may be laboring under.
I see your point! Thanks for a thoughtful response! That's all too rare around here!
Reason.com is small and (I bet) can't afford much moderation. The "mute" button was a step in the right direction. Small step, but a significant one! "Bang for the buck"! I'm all out of good and affordable further steps-recommendations here, sad to say... Software development costs money! (Which is yet another factor in favor of the "lions" who can spread those software costs over a large user base and advertisers.)
" Software development costs money! "
It's true, and FB has the software to successfully filter out penis pictures, so automated moderation is going to be a growing part of the future, as long as advertisers, who are in the driver's seat here, remain squeamish about their messages appearing beside content they find questionable.
I prefer the days of USENET, myself, more of a free for all. Though platforms like Reason seem to be about the best thing going these days, and conversation here is pretty shallow and partisan for the most part.
I don’t think 230 contributed to the concentration in a significant way. I think lack of knowledge did. We are already seeing moves away from the big 5 as the generation that grew up on the internet learns from peers and the internet itself how to navigate it better and become less dependent on the main providers. Originally it was just easier for the thirty-year-old that had only previously had email to hop on the biggest and easily accessible platform. Now one of my three kids is on Facebook, and that is only to see what we post about her. They use Discord or Instagram or whatever. The fact that the smaller ones get bought by the larger ones isn’t a 230 issue it’s a money issue. I personally think a lack of 230 would force those smaller companies to sell the minute a lawsuit happened. The real problem moving forward will be that the internet is worldwide as we see with TikTok. What jurisdiction does the US have over an international company that doesn’t need to get anything through customs or use our banking system or even our stock exchange? We have to ban it completely or have no control.
Thanks for your thoughtful inputs! Which are sadly rare here at times...
“Don’t these platforms use their size as an excuse for their inability to moderate their content?”
It’s not just a made-up excuse. It’s a very real problem. ("Problem" in the sense of an engineering problem, an interesting problem to be solved with ingenuity.) And one they couldn’t even begin to deal with if it weren’t for Section 230.
"It’s not just a made-up excuse. "
I don't mean to imply that it's made up. I realize that it's real, all the more reason to argue for the benefits of smaller, more manageable platforms over the gargantuan, uncontrollable behemoths that dominate the internet today.
I’d like to see someone build the foundation for a distributed social media system where individuals own and host their own content, shared in an open social framework.
I would be building it myself if I were still a young, single, cafe-free software developer rather than an old, semi-retired software developer with a ton of family obligations to attend to.
“Has the section 230 been at all responsible for this extreme concentration”
Don’t see how it would be.
Facebook is a special case, where a lot of its popularity is the snowball effect of its social graph.
Google/YouTube (same thing) are popular because they are well-engineered and free of charge.
Reddit (and Twitter) aren’t actually that popular. Most people don’ use them.
Wikipedia doesn’t have any major competitor because it isn’t a money-making enterprise. They have to beg for money to keep it going.
Of all of the above, the only one where you could make a case that it has a monopoly of some sort is Facebook. And that isn't because of Section 230. Also, Facebook despite all its supposed monopolistic power is struggling.
Concerning FacePooo...
If we’re going to re-write S230, we’d be well advised to ask “what are we supposedly fixing”? I used to think that FacePooo must be TERRIBLE about shutting down conservatives! As much as these “victims” yammer all day about it! Turns out that FacePoooo doesn’t shut them down until they are WAAAAY into the red zone… ‘Cause all of the outrage-posters attract like-minded folks to FacePoooo, and generate revenue for FacePooo!
The below opened my eyes about all that… So the yammering is bullshit to begin with!
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/02/facebook-hate-speech-misinformation-superusers/621617/ Facebook Has a Superuser-Supremacy Problem …. Most public activity on the platform comes from a tiny, hyperactive group of abusive users. Facebook relies on them to decide what everyone sees.
PS, note that the Atlantic is pay-walled, past like 5 or so views per month being for free. Bypass that by using an “incognito” browser opening if needed.
Yup. I can tell you from several of my relatives' feeds that Facebook doesn't shut down entusiastic MAGA promotion.
"Of all of the above, the only one where you could make a case that it has a monopoly of some sort is Facebook."
If FB monopolizes social media, Google monopolizes internet search. I use duck duck go to search, but I believe it still relies on Google resources.
"and free of charge."
That's an illusion. Google charges their clients to place ads before potential customers. They charge by the word that 'users' search. I remember reading their most expensive word was some rare medical condition involved in a class action law suit that some lawyers were cooking up.
Well, free in much the same way that broadcast TV is free.
Section 230 is a crony capitalist handout that ensures that the Internet is dominated by a few monopolists. That is its purpose and that is its effect. And people who want to regulate and control my speech online like it that way because a few monopolists are easy to control by the government.
After more than a decade of government-maintained monopolies and government censorship, you have to be either stupid not to see it, or you are actively promoting this attack on free speech.
Indeed. Government having social media remove undesirable info would be literally impossible if you had thousands of sites instead of less than 10 major ones.
Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
(Etc.)
See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/
And, in fact, we do have thousands (or at least hundreds) of site where people can get political information.
And, you know what, the government hasn't been able to successfully suppress stories: for example, anyone who wanted to know all about Hunter Biden's laptop was able to do so.
Right here in this comment section we had a woodchipper post that could have shut down Reason and sent the personal information of EVERY ONE of you to the douchebag in question. It was only Section 230 that stopped it.
People who toss out section 230 and lie about it are those who want to regulate and control your speech online definitively, through the government, deception, or other means, with or without the 1A or section 230. Section 230 regulates civil action, not criminal, and Preet Bharara was alleging "true threats" which, if true, supersedes even the 1A.
Ken "Popehat" White, the goat fucking lawyer willing to defend would-be woochippers, still hosts a thorough rundown on his webpage. Section 230 is mentioned nowhere. The same goes for Reason's own reporting on the topic:
reason.com/2015/06/19/government-stifles-speech/
As well as reporting from Reason contributors and editors posted to other news sources. More critically, regardless of S230 but thanks to the 1A, commentors directly involved can still post on these forums (as can be seen by the light of day in the Popehat link above) and are free to disagree without fear of criminal prosecution.
The notion that, "without Section 230 there will be no where safe to go" might as well say "Without Section 230, there will be no potatoes and, without potatoes, people on the internet will have no safe place to comment" except they aren't trying to deceive you because they really like potatoes, they're trying to deceive you because they think *Congress* should be deciding who's a 'Good Samaritan' and what constitutes offensive material, or unprotected speech, on the internet.
Ominous indeed. Judicial activism was bad back when the Progressive Socialist justices did it; it will be just as bad now that the Neocon justices are pursuing it. As pointed out, it’s a bad sign when the Supreme Court accepts appeals for review without any lower court disagreements. It means they’re looking for an excuse to reverse or strike down a law. Whether the law is a good law or a bad one lies in the opinions of the beholder and should not constitute a basis for a Constitutional review. Although the recent decision to reverse Roe v. Wade had a number of Constitutional points in support, it was clear from the start that the justices were simply looking for an excuse to strike it down. When the Court starts looking for appeals on the dozens of unconstitutional Federal laws to strike down and previous social engineering decisions to reverse on the same basis as Roe v. Wade, then I will believe that the Court is returning to its original purpose to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Until then, this is simply reverse social engineering with a different agenda and bias.
Until then, this is simply reverse social engineering with a different agenda and bias.
So, once a new rudder has been stuck in the water and the ship has been fixed on a new course, no action to control the rudder should be taken no matter how disastrous the course? How exceptionally coherent. Emanations and penumbras are not a suicide pact, they definitively don't even constitute a pact.
The core flaw was assuming central control was necessary, whether by government or the platform. This leads to the noble intention of letting Prodigy and other platforms manually reviewing user posts and subjectively deciding which are family-friendly and which are not. This continues down the road of censorship by letting platforms decide what is truth and what is false, ultimately subject to pressure from the government Ministry of Truth.
Here's an alternative which requires NO intervention by the platform and leaves the government NO way to pressure the platform: institute user ranking and user curation.
Add up and down arrows to every user post. Allow users to set the ranking limit on what they see.
Add tags to every post, such as SPAM or OBSCENE or FAKE. Allow users to decide which tags they will see or not see.
Allow users ("curators") to link to other user content, and allow users to see only those posts recommended by their curators of choice.
This is not rocket science. If the government had not meddled, this or something similar would have been developed by the mother of necessity. It would be common practice. All this current argy-bargy about fake news and Ministry of Truth censorship would be gone. Elon Musk could have spent his $44B on better rockets and cars.
Here is an even simpler and better alternative: kill Section 230 and any remnant of net neutrality, let Google and Facebook be sued into oblivion and lose their ad revenue, and then have people host content on federated platforms, like we used to before Google and Facebook destroyed the Internet.
Google and Facebook are about as necessary for free speech as a tapeworm is necessary for digestion.
"Google and Facebook are about as necessary for free speech "
They've been the most successful at monetizing the internet, essentially selling the attention of those who use their offerings to advertisers. If free speech needs to be bought and sold, then maybe they are necessary.
Google and Facebook are about as necessary for free speech as a tapeworm is necessary for digestion.
Indeed they're not necessary for free speech but they are convenient outlets for free speech. I get more views on FB than here, for example.
The economic barriers to entry in the social media universe are low. If users tire of FB or Google, they'll look for other providers and there are always other actual; or pending providers if currently lacking market penetration or brand recognition.
https://gizmodo.com/best-twitter-alternatives-mastodon-cohost-countersocial-1849736475
" If users tire of FB "
Can you migrate your FB contact list to another platform? If not switching over to an alternative might be a deal breaker.
It is absolutely Facebook's big advantage. But, it is also an incredibly interesting and solvable engineering problem that someone should take on!
It might not be so easy. FB is proprietary software. But no doubt technically doable. But legally?
Not sure.
It's hard to stop a scraper scraping personal info when you're logging in to your own FB page. I found that I could C&P friends' names into Excel. A more sophisticated scraper could access the page source and scrape more detailed data from there. That being the case it wouldn't be too difficult to copy over contact names including FB address/
That’s ridiculous. If it were, Musk wouldn’t have paid $44b for Twitter.
Social media are a government-maintained oligopoly, and the correct thing to do in a free society is to eliminate the government regulations, subsidies, and support necessary for maintaining this monopoly.
If that inconveniences you, well, too bad. Operating in a free market is often more inconvenient.
Yes, just like communism is convenient: limited choices, government mandated prices, etc. It removes the need for you to worry about much of anything.
Communism has fuck all to do with it.
That’s ridiculous. If it were, Musk wouldn’t have paid $44b for Twitter.
You're assuming that Musk was rational and paid a rational price. There are plenty of analysts who think he paid far too much. And you should read Matt Levine at Bloomberg on Musk.
Social media are a government-maintained oligopoly,
Oh fuck off with your paranoid bullshit.
Operating in a free market is often more inconvenient.
I am in favour of free markets. But you seem to think that a free market requires that there are lots of suppliers who all "win". If someone has a quasi-monopoly because they have a really good product, then that's fine.
Not at all. I was simply responding to your observation that the current arrangement is "convenient", and I pointed out that free market solutions are often less convenient than non-free-market solutions.
When it comes to the structure of the social media market, I'm not "assuming" that there should be lots of suppliers in a free market, I am stating that it is crystal clear that government and big corporations have colluded to destroy a free market. I can say that because I have seen it first hand over the last 30 years.
Fuck off with your propaganda for the semi-fascists running the government.
You have seen it through opaque glasses.
The government has provided some of the tech framework (and after all both internet and web emerged from government or supranational activity - Arpanet from the US, and the web from CERN. FWIW I was at college with Tim Berners-Lee but I don't remember him and he certainly wouldn't remember me.) But did the government back FB and take down MySpace? Nope. Did the government back Twitter and take down Parler? Nope.
Meanwhile, the emergence of Mastodon has supported my argument about barriers to entry.
But you see conspiracies everywhere, and your tin hat is so large a size that it's covering your eyes.
"Social media are a government-maintained oligopoly"
Facebook, Google etc get their revenue from advertisers. Like broadcast TV, they sell their users (viewers) to advertisers. It's the advertisers who maintain these social media giants, not the government.
"the correct thing to do is to eliminate the government regulations, subsidies, and support necessary for maintaining this monopoly."
That's not going to make advertisers supportive of having their ads appear beside content they find objectionable.
It is the government that makes it feasible for Facebook and Google to operate at this scale. The government created the kind of Internet that permits the Facebook and Google revenue models. The government created the kinds of protections that shield Facebook and Google from liability. There are hundreds more regulations and government programs that keep those companies in their market-dominant positions.
For example, if Section 230 is abolished, Google and Facebook will face lots of lawsuits because they are gigantic corporations with deep pockets, making it harder for them to maintain their current size and market dominance.
"It is the government that makes it feasible for Facebook and Google to operate at this scale. "
All business in America operates along the same lines. Only three big TV networks, big three auto makers, drug companies, steel companies, you name the sector, all of them are dominated by companies you could count on the fingers of one hand. Money chases money, that's the way of the world, with or without government.
"Google and Facebook will face lots of lawsuits because they are gigantic corporations with deep pockets, making it harder for them to maintain their current size and market dominance."
First of all I wouldn't bet on it. If these companies see competition they buy it up. Here they make their challengers sign a non disclosure agreement and settle out of court. And the whole idea of leaving the settlement of these issues which are party political in nature, rather than legal, to lawyers, who have an interest in prolonging and exacerbating conflict, rubs me completely the wrong way. Better to keep the meddling of lawyers and judges far away.
No, not "all businesses" operate along the same lines, only businesses in sectors that are heavily regulated and have used regulatory capture. You know, like TV networks, car manufacturers, drug companies, and steel companies. But the social media giants have been particularly successful at regulatory capture and market domination.
I'm not "betting on it". Section 230 is just one of hundreds of instances of regulatory capture. Abolishing it will not magically make Google and Facebook collapse, it is just a small step towards free markets.
I don't see what you think is "partly political" about the lawsuits that Google and Facebook are protected from. We're talking about immunity from civil liability in libel cases, copyright cases, and similar cases. These are usually non-political cases.
Politics only enters the discussion because arguably the political censorship that Google and Facebook engage in voids even their protection under Section 230. But Google and Facebook wouldn't face liability for suppressing political speech if Section 230 is eliminated, they would face liability for publishing non-political speech that hurts private individuals.
"But the social media giants have been particularly successful at regulatory capture and market domination."
Since when are you against regulatory capture? Didn't you cheer when Trump promoted Ajit Pai, an Obama hire, to head of the FCC. Pai is an opponent of net neutrality, an ally of internet providers like Verizon. The social media giants have not been as successful at regulatory capture as you claim they are.
"it is just a small step towards free markets."
No, it's a giant leap to congested court rooms. And more power to judges and lawyers to shape the internet. No thank you.
"I don’t see what you think is “partly political” about the lawsuits that Google and Facebook are protected from. "
Judging by the people who are raising a fuss. Resentful partisan tribalists such as yourself.
You miss the point. If government had butted out and not pass § 230, platforms would have either been sued into oblivion or would have come up with some user-moderation system. It would have been their choice. The clever ones would survive, the statist ones would have died.
You could say the same of the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.
Except for the logical conclusion.
Here is an even simpler and better alternative: kill Section 230 and any remnant of net neutrality
Yup.
let Google and Facebook be sued into oblivion and lose their ad revenue
Or, more aptly, not get sued into oblivion *on a case by case or even traditional class action basis*.
More critical to your and Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf's post: the provider need not be obligated to cede control of their systems and provide up/down voting systems up front... without section 230. They're still free to host flat pages of their own personal content, interactive pages of popular content, or even interactive pages of user generated content. What they can't/won't be able to do is claim ownership of the content without being in any way responsible for the actual ownership. Google will, potentially, still be able to control what bubbles to the top of your news feed or search results and even profit from it. What will change is that they won't be able to control what bubbles to the top of your feed or search, profit from it, and then claim that they don't, in any even fractional way, control what bubbles to the top of your feed or search.
Exactly. Let the market decide. Get government out of it.
I have never seen any instance of government butting in which solves a problem; it always worsens whatever problem was perceived to exist.
The 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act?
"Allow users (“curators”) to link to other user content, and allow users to see only those posts recommended by their curators of choice."
Who's going to pay these curators for their efforts, or do you expect them to contribute for free?
He specified the "curators" are the users themselves. I assume they will feel no need to pay themselves for their own services.
Relying on unpaid work? You get what you pay for.
Why do you proggies have so little respect for humans? People do all sorts of things for each other without pay; does anyone pay your for your comments here?
Number One hallmark of statists: they despise people. They think people are too damned stupid, naive, gullible to ever function on their own or figure things out for themselves. This also manifests in their disbelief that roads or dams were ever built without government help.
"People do all sorts of things for each other without pay"
So, curating internet content is work you want done without being paid. What could go wrong?
No, jackass, once again your statist central planning deludes you. It is work people do FOR THEMSELVES, not because someone else told them to do it.
Why do so many people make this same mistake? Because government indoctrination centers, aka public schools, reinforce the idea of reliance on the government.
You are just another brainwashed idiot who cannot comprehend self-ownership.
" who cannot comprehend self-ownership."
So they are paid, by their owners, who are themselves? Methinks your 'solution' still needs a little work. Back to the drooling board!
After several inane questions, with answers, you are still a statist who cannot conceive of people doing anything on their own. Your "solution" is for me to change my idea to fit a scheme of yours which you are incapable of defining.
Fuck off, statist.
I'm sick of responding to you, Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf, let me speak to your owner.
Here ya go -- several current real-world solutions.
* Donations
* Subscriptions
* Ads
* Revenue sharing from the platform
I am intrigued by Jaron Lanier's idea of universal micropayments. Not currently in practice, I grant you, but has potential for the future. None of the current solutions you offer seem to be working.
http://library.lol/main/2D794B6EBE237D2F953968034A9567FF
Who Owns the Future (Jaron Lanier)
Number One hallmark of statists: they despise people.
In fairness, I'm a card carrying misanthrope and think hell is other people yet somehow I'm able to tolerate them doing whatever the fuck they want as long as it doesn't screw me over.
I may think they're absurd, stupid, or occasionally even evil but by and large that's for them to decide for themselves.
We already have "selective curation" in the form of silos. Liberals "censor" conservatives, and vice versa. Parler awaits you! Where liberals are shut OUT of the echo chamber!
Parler censors liberals https://www.techdirt.com/2020/06/29/as-predicted-parler-is-banning-users-it-doesnt-like/
What made you think I was singling out the left? Has TDS gotten you too?
OK, I re-read your post in this case here, and it doesn't (you don't) seem to single out the left. Granted, then. In general, in these comments, it seems to me that anti-Section-230 comments come at about ??? 95% if not more, from rightists rather than from leftists. The rightists hardly EVER mention that right-wing sites (like Parler) "censor" left-wingers in their moderation efforts!
Thank Government Almighty for Section 230, which for ONCE limits Government Almighty powers! Limits the powers of Government Almighty courts, that is.
A long time ago. Or he got into Agile Cyborgs hidden stash.
Their confidence is especially puzzling when one considers that some of them detest Section 230 for enabling speech (namely, hate speech and misinformation) while others loathe it for enabling "censorship" (that is, content moderation).
The left claims Section 230 prevents them from censoring speech they don't like, while the right claims Section 230 allows for censoring speech that they do like.
How can both of those things be true at the same time?
They aren't. The left is lying.
Yeah, yeah, anyone who disagrees with you is an evil liar motivated by malice blah blah blah.
Does anyone have a serious reply?
No not at all. For example, I think in your case, ignorance and stupidity are the predominant reasons you say the shit you say.
Section 230 is both a dessert topping AND a floor wax!!! It is also a toothpaste AND a hemorrhoid oinkmint! (In case you didn't know, an oinkmint is a cream used to attract pigs, which will then nibble your hemorrhoids away lickety-split-shit!)
Yet the Left regularly censors speech they dislike online.
Yet the right has this trove of information that they claim has been censored. How can they have censored information? By definition censored means it is unavailable.
Which they generally shouldn't, but nonetheless have a right to do. Does the right also regularly censor speech they dislike online? Of course they do.
It's different because intentions. When the right censors they have good intentions. When the left censors they have bad intentions. So when the left censors it's a terrible infringement on liberty, but when the right censors they're owning libs which makes it awesome.
How can both of those things be true at the same time?
I don't see a contradiction unless you assume a strictly bipartisan view of reality. If we take a set of all words* and say some are forbidden, it's readily possible for you to find acceptable words that you think should be forbidden and men to find words that I think are forbidden and shouldn't be. The only way there is a conundrum is if you assume every word in the set is specifically delineated or delineatable as acceptable/forbidden diametrically oppositely between us.
But, being a transcendental non-partisan hack, this was immediately obvious to you, right?
More critical to section 230, a subset of words owned by Google and not owned by Google cannot exist. Let alone one that they can deem 'Republican' or 'Democrat' *and* exclusively owned by them and not 'Republicans' or 'Democrats' *and* not owned by them.
This really isn't that tough for anyone who really is looking at it without predilection towards red/blue and/or hosts/users to figure out.
*Shorthand equating words and morphemes inasmuch as morphemes, in context, can be fractionally owned but not themselves divided, two people can own an apple but if you carve the apple and give each owner their proportional share, neither one owns *an* *apple* and someone owning the letter 'a' doesn't mean they own 16(ish)% of 'apples', by any/all conceptualizations of 'apples'.
As I read your comment the word obfuscate comes to mind.
Need some cheese?
I'm not the one who went with the enormous grab-bag of "speech" and the vagueness of left/right, you are. If you meant something more specific, you should've been more specific yourself rather than whining when I didn't give you what you didn't ask for:
"Republicans think spheres are round and Democrats think buses are yellow. How can both be true?" - sarcasmic
"Ibram X Kendi think posts opposing CRT should be censored, Johs Hawley think posts opposing CRT shouldn't. How could both be true?" - sarcasmic
Better?
The following FAR more accurately portrays the problems that we face today: “Ibram Kendi thinks that ALL posts should be moderated by the Ibram Kendi Unbiased Ministry of No Hurt Baby Feelings Allowed, while Josh Hawley thinks that ALL posts should be moderated by the Josh Hawley and Casually Mad Patriotic and Righteous Agency of Unquestionable Obedience to Truth and Justice."
HOW can all power pigs everywhere be simultaneously appeased?
Better?
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"Countless victims of online abuse and harassment have found themselves out of luck."
That is not true; they just can't sue the carrier for a lemon someone sold them. They have to sue the seller who is committing the crime and not the carrier. It's about not pushing problems onto everyone in sight but focusing on the perpetrator.
And as many have pointed out; The Nazi-Empire seems to be exempt from section 230. If they can erase the sitting president they can do whatever they want with their illegal Gov-GUN packing.
The illogic of this piece is too extremely well-crafted to be anything but deliberate sophistry. It's riddled with it from start to finish, from pretending that Section 230 didn't have the exact same end as the rest of the Communications Decency Act (the reason they wanted to save Prodigy's moderation scheme is that Prodigy censored porn) to pretending that the fact that some politicians say idiotic things should give "serious people" pause.
But I'm going to bring one bit out in particular, the claim that "Being protected as a publisher logically encompasses being protected as a distributor."
Section 230 does not protect publishers, neither as written nor as interpreted. If you're an ordinary website publishing digitally the same way as publisher of newspapers, magazines, books, or pamphlets have done on paper for centuries, or radio and TV stations have done for decades, Section 230 doesn't protect you in any way, shape, or form for what you publish. As a publisher, you're liable like all those other publishers.
Section 230, instead, protects distributors who engage in moderation, and further, the way it protects those distributors is by explicitly saying that even if they engage in moderation, they are not to then be treated as publishers.
That is, they are not "protected as publishers"; they are protected by a declaration that they are not publishers, and thus do not gain the enhanced liability of a publisher.
This, properly, would actually be seen as a simple corrective to one local state court's misunderstanding of Cubby v. CompuServe in the Prodigy case. Prodigy's "content moderation" wasn't any more extensive than the "moderation" engaged in by the classic examples of distributors, whether bookstores, libraries, newsstands, record stores, video rental shops, and the like. That Prodigy was held to a stricter libel liability standard than Blockbuster was an error, and Section 230 corrected it, a bit faster than the Federal court system would have.
The fact that a moron of a judge took Section 230 and twisted it from merely guaranteeing computer information services acting as distributors would continue to be treated as distributors, but instead that they would have total liability immunity for content on the level of common carriers, was ridiculous. Which is what Justice Thomas has properly pointed out.
Not that it isn't understandable why a Google-funded think tank would feel a desire to preserve the ridiculous overextension of immunity that Google has grown accustomed to.
Well, all that having been said, I'm still left wondering, which side of your bread do you think is buttered here? What's your frequency, Kenneth? What's the angle of your dingle-dangle?
Speaking strictly for myself only, here's the angle of my dingle-dangle: This is a get-rich-quick scheme by Yours Truly, The One and Only SQRLSY One!
Tear down Section 230, then I will post something hurtful, racist, and factually wrong, to Reason.com... Then I will SUE Reason.com for publishing such a horrible post! Ka-ching-ching-ching ALL of the way to the bank, for MEEE!!!
Meant in reply to DRM above…
This, properly, would actually be seen as a simple corrective to one local state court’s misunderstanding of Cubby v. CompuServe in the Prodigy case.
There was no misunderstanding. The Prodigy case is the crytsalline prototype for the way moderation functions today and was struck down, and was resurrected by S230.
Notably:
-Prodigy’s TOS stated up-front/manual moderation but, at court, Prodigy claimed a shift to post hoc/automated moderation but provided no evidence in support of the official policy shift or the disclosure of such to users.
-Prodigy testified to evidence of an ’emergency delete button’ available to directly board members to delete content found to (the board members) to be objectionable with language clearly stating “solicitation, bad advice, insulting, wrong topic, off topic, bad taste [emphasis added]”
Prodigy implemented rudimentary automated controls behind the scenes and without disclosure to its users, exerted manual controls beyond the automated controls, and then claimed that (disregarding disclosure to their users) because it was using automated controls it wasn’t responsible for the manual control it was exerting and being prosecuted for the use of the automated controls. Compuserve, OTOH, exerted no direct controls, none, at the board or lower levels, over the content on its servers.
Everything you said about Prodigy's moderation regime is true, except for the non-disclosure to users. Maybe there wasn't a formal notification in the TOS, but everybody using the boards knew it, because the moderators discussed it with the users. (Particularly, I remember being on the Prodigy board that discussed the 1992 "The Next President" game, and the moderator explaining to a guy what happened to his series of attempted analysis posts with a subject line that started with the string "ANAL:".)
However, that doesn't change the fact that the New York court in Stratton Oakmont v. Prodigy interpreted Cubby v. CompuServe wrongly. Cubby v. CompuServe was based directly on the distributor immunity in Smith v. California, where the Supreme Court found a bookstore could not be held strictly/absolutely liable for the content of books it was selling, but instead that scienter had to apply.
It is fairly obvious that a bookstore, particularly a non-chain bookstore in 1959, does not simply and blindly resell any title that is offered to them, but curates what titles they sell. Despite that, the Supreme Court ruled a bookstore can only be held liable for the contents of the books if it can be demonstrated that they were (or should have been) specifically aware that the specific book in question was illegal. Normal business judgment over what titles to offer by a bookstore does not create liability equal to that of a publisher.
The New York court, in treating Prodigy's moderation as equivalent to a publisher's editorial control, rather than equivalent to a bookstore's decision on what titles to stock, misapplied Cubby v. CompuServe and the underlying Smith v. California. Despite the moderation regime, both automated and non-automated, there was no reason to believe that Prodigy had specific knowledge of the allegedly-libelous claims against Stratton Oakmont prior to notification by Stratton Oakmont; accordingly, Prodigy should have been held non-liable by the court on the same notice-and-takedown regime that applies to bookstores, newsstands, and the like.
Section 230 was a literal accident, so it's beyond insane that it's a 'cornerstone' of internet freedom. It was in a bill that was objectively trying to accomplish the opposite of what it's ended up doing.
And that's the generous interpretation.
Happy accident then! We are lucky they worded it poorly for whatever they were trying to accomplish, because it has worked very well the way it IS worded.
It has "worked very well" if your objective was to create a social media oligopoly that the government can instrumentalize for censorship. Semi-fascists like you may want that, but it is incompatible with US founding principles and with what most people want.
And I don't believe that it is a "happy accident"; it is more an instance of regulatory capture: after all, corporations lobbied for this text and wanted this outcome.
That sure worked out well for Prodigy and Compuserve...
Section 230 is, and always has been, flatly unconstitutional. It denies fundamental Common Law rights to recover for damages for slander, libel, misappropriation of image and likeness, and other tort law basics.
The Constitution guarantees free speech rights on the Internet. Immunity was understandably conferred on publishers when this new medium was created. But since then, immunity has turned the Internet into a culture-evaporating monster.
Nonsense. Governments have never been bound by "Common Law".
Is this some sort of "Sovereign Citizen" argument?
Section 230 and the 1st Amendment both tell Government Almighty speech regulators "filthy mitts OFF of MY free speech rights"! Section 230 ALSO says "filthy mitts OFF of MY property rights"!
So I was wondering... Is the 1st Amendment ALSO "flatly unconstitutional"?
Defamatory online content should be treated the same way that a spill in a grocery store is treated. If a grocery store takes reasonable steps to eliminate a dangerous spill reasonably, it can avoid slip and falls. Of course, people can always sue, but the store has a defense.
If an online platform exists and does moderate, then it should have no impenetrable protection, and let contract between the platforms and users resolve the issue (where this departs from the grocery store analogy).
Platforms can charge money for things, and people can make deals to assist in moderation. I just don't see the justification for the protection provided by S230.
"recommending content to users is classic publisher behavior. It's what a newspaper does when it puts a story on page A1 instead of page D6. To hold a platform liable for how it presents user-generated content is to treat it as a publisher—exactly what Section 230 forbids."
And this is exactly what is wrong with Section 230. When a website behaves as a Newspaper does, it should be subject to the same liabilities a newspaper has.
Notice that provider of the "thing" that the newspaper is printed on (a paper company) is not liable. If a website only provides a space (the "thing") that the posting is printed on, it should not have liability any more than the paper company does.
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