The Dangerous Lesson of Book Bans in Public School Libraries
An obscure Supreme Court case provides a roadmap through the curricular culture war.

A small group of parents attends a conference where they're educated about the threats to American morality embedded in modern education. There they obtain a list of books believed to present a clear and present danger to young people. They bring that list to a meeting of the local school board. It turns out that 11 of the titles are found in school district libraries or curricula.
Alarmed, school board members direct the superintendent to remove the books and to put out a press statement declaring the tomes "anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Sem[i]tic, and just plain filthy." The board says, "It is our duty, our moral obligation, to protect the children in our schools from this moral danger as surely as from physical and medical dangers."
A book review committee is formed, and it recommends retaining most of the books. But the school board disagrees. Nine of the books are removed: Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut; The Naked Ape, by Desmond Morris; Down These Mean Streets, by Piri Thomas; Best Short Stories of Negro Writers, edited by Langston Hughes; Go Ask Alice, of anonymous authorship; A Hero Ain't Nothin' but A Sandwich, by Alice Childress; A Reader for Writers, edited by Jerome Archer; The Fixer, by Bernard Malamud; and Soul On Ice, by Eldridge Cleaver.
Did this happen in Texas in 2022? No: The year is 1976, and the place is the Island Trees Union Free School District on Long Island, New York. These events formed the core of Island Trees School District v. Pico, a quirky and mostly forgotten Supreme Court case that is suddenly relevant once again. That relevance is related less to legal precedent than to a powerful moral argument that a plurality of the court made in its dicta. That moral argument should guide our disputes about books in schools today.
Those disputes have been metastasizing. In April, the free speech advocacy group PEN America issued a report detailing 1,586 instances of individual books being "banned" between July 1, 2021, and March 31, 2022, affecting 1,145 unique book titles. By bans, they mean "removals of books from school libraries, prohibitions in classrooms, or both, as well as books banned from circulation during investigations resulting from challenges from parents, educators, administrators, board members, or responses to laws passed by legislatures."
There are easy ways of looking at this issue, and there are hard ways. The easy ways are wrong. The hardest way is right. Let's take each in turn.
The easy ways take a look at the complex and often competing interests at play and simply declare a winner. In one view, parents have an unquestioned interest in governing their child's education, so the parents' desires should triumph. This is, increasingly, the position of the Republican Party. It's repositioning itself as a "parent's party," and when push comes to shove, parents win.
In another view, educators ask: Which parents should win? Is a majoritarian education a quality education? Is parent-driven public education truly even majoritarian? Isn't the sad reality that school board politics is mainly activist politics, driven more by anger and reaction than by calm and thoughtful reflection? We train educators for a reason, they say. Let teachers teach.
A third line of thinking takes a pox-on-both-your-houses approach. Don't choose between public school parents and public school educators. Blow up the system. Pass backpack funding. Expand school choice. That way, parents win and teachers win. Parents can find the school that meets their standards of excellence and/or teaches their values. Educators can build institutions centered around their expertise. Families will then choose from a menu, and that menu will cover almost every educational meal.
I'm drawn to the third way. School choice de-escalates curricular culture battles and enhances the autonomy and responsibility of every individual in the system. Both parents and teachers have the ability to vote with their feet, to seek schools and jobs that match their philosophy and priorities. Moreover, it builds a sense of constructive cultural purpose. An explosion of school choice could revitalize the lost art of institution-building and community formation.
But even the third way—the better way—isn't enough. It is both contingent and distant.
Don't get me wrong: The school choice movement (including homeschoolers and charter schools) has made immense progress. Homeschooling barely existed 50 years ago, but by the 2020–2021 school year roughly 3.7 million students were educated at home. Charter schools educate more than 3 million students a year, and in 2018 a half-million students were enrolled in private school choice programs. But that still leaves roughly 50 million students in conventional public schools. Until most families actually have backpack funding, we must deal with the world as it is, and that world is going to educate the vast majority of American students in conventional public schools for the indefinite future. What do we owe them as long as they're there?
That brings us back to Pico. A collection of students sued the Island Trees school district, arguing that the board's book removal order violated the students' First Amendment rights to receive information. In other words, in the fight between parents and teachers, the students should have a constitutional say too.
The Supreme Court agreed, but its plurality opinion created almost as many questions as answers. It left intact broad state authority over school curricula, and it excluded from the scope of the decision the acquisition of library books. It merely tried to answer whether, sometimes, removing a book from a school library could violate the First Amendment.
The answer was yes. The justices argued that the First Amendment includes a "right to receive ideas" that is "a necessary predicate to the recipient's meaningful exercise of his own rights of speech, press, and political freedom." This right meant that schools did not have "unfettered discretion" to remove books from shelves. At the same time, the plurality held that "we do not deny that local school boards have a substantial legitimate role to play in the determination of school library content."
How does a school board square that circle? What are the limits of its "legitimate role"? Here was the essential holding: "Petitioners rightly possess significant discretion to determine the content of their school libraries. But that discretion may not be exercised in a narrowly partisan or political manner. If a Democratic school board, motivated by party affiliation, ordered the removal of all books written by or in favor of Republicans, few would doubt that the order violated the constitutional rights of the students denied access to those books. The same conclusion would surely apply if an all-white school board, motivated by racial animus, decided to remove all books authored by blacks or advocating racial equality and integration. Our Constitution does not permit the official suppression of ideas."
Is that a clear standard? Well, no. It's the judicial equivalent of declaring, "Just don't go too far." And how far is too far? Defining the extremes (no books by Republicans, no books by black authors) doesn't define the line. Indeed, the case was ultimately so unhelpful in drawing meaningful lines that there's real doubt the plurality opinion would hold in the current Court.
As a statement of legal principle, Pico is unhelpful. But as a statement of educational philosophy, Pico shines. It provides a prudential standard that should help school boards navigate the complexities of parent complaints and students' educational interests. That standard is rooted in the Court's description of the nature of students' rights and the purposes of American education itself.
In the Pico ruling, the Court quoted its earlier judgment in Tinker v. Des Moines (1969): "In our system, students may not be regarded as closed-circuit recipients of only that which the State chooses to communicate….School officials cannot suppress 'expressions of feeling with which they do not wish to contend.'" The Court added in Pico: "In sum, just as access to ideas makes it possible for citizens generally to exercise their rights of free speech and press in a meaningful manner, such access prepares students for active and effective participation in the pluralistic, often contentious society in which they will soon be adult members."
In those sentences, Justice William J. Brennan Jr. perfectly captured the problem with book bans. No, it's not that any given book should be on the shelves. There are, for example, books that are either too explicit for young children or explicit enough that they should be viewed and checked out only with parental permission. It's that book bans inhibit a core function of public education. They teach students that they should be protected from offensive ideas rather than how to engage and grapple with concepts they may not like.
To borrow a phrase from Greg Lukianoff, president of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, book bans are part of unlearning liberty. The process of American education is inseparable from the process of building American citizens, whether those citizens are educated in private schools, home schools, or public schools. It's sometimes tempting to try to avoid cultural conflicts by asking schools to stick to the basics, such as reading, writing, and arithmetic. But one of those "basics" is preparing young people for "active and effective participation" in American pluralism.
As a practical matter, that means that book removal should be a last resort, both because limiting access to content can implicate students' ability to receive ideas and because of the message of the removal itself. It teaches a lesson—that the response to a challenging thought is to challenge the expression itself rather than the idea.
That does not mean that anything goes. As a matter of common sense, elementary school libraries should have different standards from high schools. And some books are so graphic that parents should have a say in whether even their older child can check them out.
But the bottom line remains. When school boards and principals hear challenges to books or consider restrictions on curriculum, they need to understand the very purpose of their educational project. It is not, as the Island Trees district declared back in 1976, to protect children from "moral danger." It is to prepare citizens for pluralism. Our nation's schools must not suppress "expressions of feeling with which they do not wish to contend."
American students are being taught that speech is dangerous. They are learning that the proper response to an offensive idea is to ban the idea and punish the speaker. And who taught them these lessons? Both the parents who sought to protect their children and the educators who forgot their central purpose.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "The Dangerous Lesson of Book Bans in Public School Libraries."
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Words and ideas are dangerous
Some certainly are. For example The Bell Curve should be banned and all existing copies burned.
#AntiRacism101
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He's not the hero we want; he's the hero we deserve . . .
We need common sense restrictions on the First Amendment, obviously.
I support free speech, as long as you agree with everything I say.
/proggie logic
Same logic as progressive "diversity".
OMG!
David French is writing for Reason.com now?! He's one of my favorite conservatives! Who will they get next — Jennifer Rubin? Bill Kristol? Joe Walsh? Rick Wilson?
#LibertariansForEmbracingNeocons
#(BecauseTheyreAllDemocratsNow)
David French is writing for Reason. It almost broke my brain reading that.
I guess we already had Weigel and Shikha so why not an arch-neocon too now. The important bit to TeenReason libertarianisming is that they love the Democrats and condemn the Trump and all his evil works.
David French is not a neocon. He's a rather traditional conservative. He's quite opposed to the neocons. But he's also a #nevertrumper, and to Trump fans that's the worst sin ever. To actually believe the Bible over Trump is the unforgivable sin, and those who commit it shall never sit on the right side of Trump in the hereafter.
I haven't commented in a while but had to stop when I saw French's name on the byline. But this is a pretty good take and his "preparing for pluralism" concept of education is a good idea.
Frankly, this article could never be published in The Atlantic. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Is he thinking of running for President as was suggested by NR in 2016?
His voter base are all the Bullwark subscribers, so just go and ask both of them.
The enemy of my enemy can still be an enemy.
French must have come out as an early Never DeSantis.
They are all neocons.
And libertarians, who used to be far-right of all them (less government is far right), now embrace very odd social policies and the right of the corporation over the individual (fascism) for vaccination.
Today I switched my party affiliation to constitution party
LOL how many people are going to stop reading at the byline and just curse Reason for it?
But he is exactly right here: The first and best option is school choice. Let parents decide among multiple competing schools where to send their kids for an education. The schools ought to be subject to some minimal standards to make sure the kids really are being educated, but that's it.
But before we get to school choice utopia, in the context of our present system, the particulars of school curricula ought to be set by teachers and principals, with broad oversight by school boards. The teachers are trained professionals, just like doctors and lawyers are trained professionals, and ought to be given the space to exercise their expertise within the broad boundaries set by the school board.
https://twitter.com/ZubyMusic/status/1545766640167559170?t=JL1O-RJ1TeRLiBjtvJMbjA&s=19
How many consecutive predictions do 'the experts' need to get wrong before they cease to be experts?
1
Dag. I just needed to read one comment further.
But ^THIS
Jeff doesn't give a rat's ass about school choice. He's just trying to provide cover for the fact that the actual problem being obscured is that the books are a book being assigned, not being banned.
Parents are objecting to alphabet sex cult grooming materials being pushed. Naturally TeenReason says not indoctrinating children or inculcating them on sex acts in the classroom, is horrible censorship. Jeff agrees.
Oh look at ML, trying to stuff words into my mouth with his usual baiting and trolling.
Clearly, objecting to Slaughterhouse Five in the classroom is equivalent to objecting to teaching sex acts to kids. LOL
You have explicitly supported teaching the materials that the West Chester Area School District parents objected to, and called anyone who disagreed with it "censors".
Don't lie to us. You're already notorious here on it.
You're lying, trolling, and trying to change the subject. You cannot argue against the substance of my comment so you resort to these juvenile tricks. It is pathetic. Both you and Jesse hate me so much that you cannot let a comment of mine pass without some swipe or insult or attempt to bait and troll. You are a sad, sad man.
Nope. We’ve all read your posts on the subject. And even your OP of this thread supports it.
I'm not lying and trolling you disgusting freak. You're the one who gets paid to do that.
Virtually every one here will attest to the fact that you explicitly supported teaching the materials that the West Chester Area School District parents objected to.
Hands up all those who've seen Jeff run defense on those very materials here.
And how the fuck is this "changing the subject", you pathetic clown? Parent objections to your grooming products is what the fucking article is about.
Seriously, who the fuck do you think you're tricking? Do you think nobody can read the article and the other comments here? What a pathetic clown you are.
that's right, let the hate flow through you
you're a sad sack of a human being who derives joy from tormenting people online. Ever notice how virtually every comment you make is either trying to bait someone, trying to entrap someone, an insult, or some sarcastic response? When is the last time you actually presented a good-faith argument devoid of insults?
you have no original ideas of your own. you just follow along with the right-wing insult crowd around here because it makes you feel good.
so congratulations on the +1 brownie points you earned by insulting the 'correct' people. You have successfully virtue-signaled to your tribe that you are still a member in good standing. Well done!
Collectivistjeff may be unable to see anything from a non collectivist perspective, but that doesn't stop him from being a complete narcissist
If you'd stop trying to gaslight and troll everyone else, maybe you wouldn't feel tormented, you fifty-centing fuck.
Asking you pointed questions and referencing your past statements regarding the bullshit you're trying to peddle here, isn't "tormenting" by any measure.
You're no victim, Jeff, you're the problem. A little fucking crybully who stamps his trotters in anger when he gets pushback.
Why are you always siding with the groomer/pedophile friendly side of everything?
Why are you siding with the authoritarian control freaks?
>problem being obscured is that the books are a book being assigned
I have been searching about this West Chester Area School controversy and as far as I can tell the issue is mostly about a book called "Gender Queer, A Memoir" being kept on the library shelves, rather than it being assigned. The book itself looks like it's content isn't any more objectionable than an R-rated movie. A 5-year old can go to an R-rated movie if a parent accompanies them (in fact, movie ratings have no legal force and are enforced by an industry body). If there was any actual evidence that being exposed to R-rated movies was seriously harmful to children it would be illegal to show them to children, period.
>Parents are objecting to alphabet sex cult grooming materials being pushed.
This is a blatant falsehood for multiple reasons:
1. Most of what is going on is that bigots are claiming that any mention of LGBT subjects is inherently sexual, and therefore innapropriate of children. They are basing all of this on an equivocation. The word "sexual orientation" contains the word "sexual," but it means "sexual" as in "what sex a person is" rather than "sexual" as in "about having sex." The bigots are being deliberately disingenuous and acting like any book about LGBT subjects is equivalent to porn.
2. Even for those books like "Gender Queer," which do discuss and portray sex, the argument does not hold because keeping children ignorant about sex does not protect them from molesters.
In fact, the opposite is often true. Molesters tend to take advantage of children's ignorance and naivety about sexual matters. Children who know about sex and how it works are much more likely to recognize grooming for what it is. So keeping these books on the shelves allows students at schools to educate and protect themselves.
3. Conservative Republicans have repeatedly shown a lack of interest in protecting children from actual grooming. For instance, Democrats in the Michigan House of Representatives recently introduced a bill to make grooming a crime, Republicans blocked it, which makes sense since conservative organizations and politicians keep getting caught in sex scandals with underage people. This shows that this is about homophobia, not protecting children. They only care about grooming as a pretext to attack LGBT people.
I really wish child molesters would stop coming to this site
Same. That includes Buttplug, and enablers like Jeffy.
Most of what is going on is that bigots are claiming that any mention of LGBT subjects is inherently sexual, and therefore innapropriate of children. They are basing all of this on an equivocation. The word "sexual orientation" contains the word "sexual," but it means "sexual" as in "what sex a person is" rather than "sexual" as in "about having sex."
Er, no. The LGB bit of LGBT is about sexuality - what sex of person you are sexually attracted to. it's 100% to do with sex qua exchange of bodily fluids.
The T bit is not sexual, it has to do with { cloud of smoke }. The cloud of smoke is attributed to something called "gender" which has the remarkable semantic quality of never meaning the same thing twice in the same sentence. This leads to difficult moments like a nominee for the Supreme Court being unable to offer an opinion on what a "woman" is, and attributing the difficulty to not being a biologist. (Which btw is a massive self-own as it implies, contra-gender theory, that being a woman has something to do with biology.)
But anyway - the T has nothing to do with the exchange of bodily fluids. It is tangentially related, in some unknown way, to what sex you are. Maybe.
On average, teachers and principals are trained professionals in the same way homeopaths reading from Grey's Anatomy are trained professionals.
Also, even if they're experts, I've lost any capacity to just "defer to the experts" in the past three years. Many of them favor broad answers to push their preferences instead of actually applying their expertise on the narrow and specific circumstances they're faced with.
Yes we know. YOU are a professional and deserve the professional courtesy to which you are entitled. THEY are bumbling morons who need to be handheld and constantly monitored and told what to do.
Education majors are indeed morons.
Sorry.
And Republicans are racist redneck idiots.
Fair is fair, right?
I would take it if it repelled leftists from my state.
So you believe that Republicans actually are racist redneck idiots?
No, it means I'd accept your insult if it served a wider goal of keeping my state free of leftists.
But to unnest the comments, you can look up the GPA averages of education majors. You won't like the result.
But you're not offering the claim "Education majors are indeed morons" as an insult. You think it is a statement of fact.
So in the same vein, the claim "Republicans are racist redneck idiots" should be taken not as an insult but a statement of fact.
I could point to surveys that show that Republicans don't think blacks have it all that bad in this country (because they're racist), that Republicans like to drink cheap beer, drive pickup trucks and watch NASCAR (because they're rednecks), and don't go to college, and often don't even finish highschool (because they're idiots). So, claim proved, right?
Or, we could instead refrain from making generalized collectivizing statements about entire groups of people, because it's insulting and it denies the individuality of the people within those groups.
What do you say?
Or, we could instead refrain from making generalized collectivizing statements about entire groups of people, because it's insulting and it denies the individuality of the people within those groups.
What do you say?
I've never cared if you do or don't generalize people. I care about your insanely transparent, holier than thou hypocrisy on it. You always bitch about it, but you refuse to be the better human and wrestle in the mud. And if I had to guess, it's because you were bullied early on in life and you won't let that go.
it's not about whether I am generalizing about anyone.
it is about whether you appreciate being generalized about, by anyone.
I stopped caring about that in highschool.
“ But you're not offering the claim "Education majors are indeed morons" as an insult. You think it is a statement of fact.”
Yes, and he said that his opinion is based on their average gpa’s. So if they are as dismal as is being stated, then their being morons would actually be a fact.
“YOU are a professional and deserve the professional courtesy to which you are entitled.”
Outside of government, all “professionals” have people they are accountable to. So once again, even just presenting a basic premise, you’re being a dishonest piece of shit.
Everything is a lie with that clown.
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention to graduation, literacy, or mathematics rates, but the evidence of the last 30 years is overwhelmingly that they are professionals deserving of your white knighting for them.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention to obesity rates, but the evidence of the last 30 years is overwhelmingly that doctors are morons who don't deserve the respect as professionals.
Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the litigious society and the explosion of laws, but the evidence over the past 30 years is that lawyers are morons who don't deserve the respect as professionals.
Valid?
Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to post idiotic, invalid comparisons and confirm it.
I don't think collectivistjeff has the intellectual capacity to grasp this.
I accept your characterizations and further move that doctors who inveigh to mandate, at best, a weak treatment mistakenly called a vaccine are no experts at all. I'm sure you will agree with this.
I also accept that lawyers, especially ones in large cities have become defacto morons by locking up bodega clerks for murder when assaulted at midnight. I'm also sure you will agree with this.
No, because doctors aren’t in charge of your health. When doctors become agents of the state who get to dictate what everyone eats and how much exercise they have have to do and people are still obese, then you’ll have a point. Jesus Christ what a ridiculous analogy.
TOP MEN!
“The teachers are trained professionals, just like doctors and lawyers are trained professional
No.
"The teachers are trained professionals, just like doctors and lawyers are trained professionals"
The majority of teachers are trained at an extremely low level, and start from a much lower IQ on average. Doctors are at the top of their profession after rigorous training (usually AT LEAST 8 more years than a teacher, often even more) and constant CME. The equivalent in the medical world would be a certified medical assistant or EMT. If you are truly trying to do a more apt comparison.
I wouldn't take an EMTs or CMA's "expert" opinion on barely anything. You are welcome to do so, but best make sure your insurances are up to date.
Anyways, you are just looking for any reason to excuse grooming, so not surprised here
to further elucidate the level of "expert" these teachers are.
PhD in Biology
Masters in Biology
Bachelor's in Biology
Bachelor's in "Education"
High school Biology teacher
Elementary/middle school "Science" teacher <<-- you are here
This is the standard level these narcissistic gender weirdos who are pushing the "really a man can get pregnant" ideology on kids. They are so far below "experts" in their field its laughable you would consider them such.
A lot of these people are glorified babysitters, and only partially qualified for that position. Please already with the "trust the experts" transparent nonsense
I think I'd take an EMT's opinion over a non-EMT's opinion on a medical issue. Why not?
If you think current training for teachers is insufficient, I'm willing to listen.
But I absolutely reject the thinking that teaching itself is not a profession, or that teachers don't deserve the respect afforded to professionals.
Anyways, you are just looking for any reason to excuse grooming, so not surprised here
Oh I see. So if we are going to start with the mind-reading exercises, then I might suggest that you are trashing not just teachers, but *teaching as a profession*, to undermine not just public schools but education itself and to discourage kids from learning anything but the most superficial education about anything, just enough to get a job and that's it. Because you don't actually want critical thinking citizens, you want zombie robots who can repeat jingoistic patriotic phrases but who are never exposed to other ideas beyond an American-centric worldview.
"But before we get to school choice utopia, in the context of our present system, the particulars of school curricula ought to be set by teachers and principals, with broad oversight by school boards."
That is being done and you are quite dissatisfied.
And education majors are notoriously idiotic. Education should not be a degree. A minor to a real degree, yes, but not a degree in and of itself.
"A collection of students sued the Island Trees school district, arguing that the board's book removal order violated the students' First Amendment rights to receive information."
Because the 'collection of students' is to stupid to find the local public library?
I have to agree. The premise is faulty and thus everything else is the fruit of the poisoned tree.
This isn't a book ban in any way, shape, or form. The books are still freely available for purchase or lending, and you will not be punished for owning or reading the book even if you do so in the front seat of class or in front of the principal.
There is a severe gap between a book being assigned and being banned.
But any limits on partisan ideology in assigned reading are fascism, right?
This type of pedantic nitpicking, though (is it really a 'ban'?) misses the larger central point:
As a practical matter, that means that book removal should be a last resort, both because limiting access to content can implicate students' ability to receive ideas and because of the message of the removal itself. It teaches a lesson—that the response to a challenging thought is to challenge the expression itself rather than the idea.
"misses the larger central point:"
that point being...
"How can we force people to let us push our gender/sex ideology on children"
Exactly. It's an amazingly - and deliberately - stupid article because it bangs tediously on about removing books from school libraries, while failing to explain how books get into school libraries in the first place.
And the answer is, no, they do not sprout naturally from the shelves, some government official uses taxpayer money to buy the books and put them in the library. No questions are asked either by French, or SCOTUS, about which government official originally puts the books into the library (and decides not to put other books into the library) and what motivates that official to choose some books and reject others.
So this is really a dispute in which some hierarchically inferior (and lefty) government employee gets to choose which books go into the school library, and the hierarchically superior (and elected) government officials are not allowed to disagree with the inferior (lefty) employee's choices.
In other words - if we get our guys in at the lower level, employed by the Board, the elected Board can go and suck itself off, because the court is going to frame it as a question of "removal" rather than a question of how the book arrives in the library in the first place, and so the elected officials interferences are "1st Amendment infringements."
The elected guys must not be allowed to interfere with the decisions of the government employees. The idea that the School Board is responsible for the schools must be respected only in the sense of a slogan. It absolutely must not actually occur.
Well said.
Better yet: is the 'collection of students' too stupid to find a bookstore or Amazon?
Perhaps demanding uncensored FREE access is not so much about the censorship.
If we have a First Amendment right to receive free information, how can news sites put up a pay wall?
Aren't libraries just laughing in the face of copyright laws, and stealing from authors' revenue streams?
Shouldn't local schools and local libraries get to decide which books they make available, and which ones are inappropriate for children? If not the local parents, then whose decision is it?
It’s not just receiving information. Materials have to be provided. The first rule of libertarianism is that there is no such thing as a right to something that must be produced.
OK groomer.
You are referring to the praying football coaches? In a sense, I suppose, you may be right. They are trying to groom students into acceptance of Christian indoctrination, aren't they?
Shut the fuck up, pedo.
someone doesn't like it when his dirty smear is turned against him, does he?
No, there's a difference between praying and teaching prepubescent children about what to do with their genitals or what you do with yours.
To be fair, progressives are just as dogmatic and zealous about their religion as Baptists, but refuse to admit it.
Truth.
Though they're beyond baptists - puritans or jihadists would be more accurate
Wear the mask or get flogged!
What's the difference?
Coach is making it very clear - if you want playing time on the football team, you'll accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior just like he did.
You want that college football scholarship, don't you? Well it's hard for scouts to evaluate your athletic ability if you don't get any playing time, isn't it?
At no point in the case you allude to did players get excluded because they didn't pray.
Of course not. He just made a huge fucking deal about how important it was to pray, and he also is in charge of deciding who gets playing time.
And again, the players weren't treated unfavorably because of their non-Christianity. You'd think they would have argued that, but not even the dissent cares.
He just made a huge fucking deal about how important it was to pray
Says you. He made it his own personal ritual and allowed others to join him, others would say.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/bremerton-football-coach-vows-to-pray-after-game-despite-district-order/
Kennedy, who describes himself as a God-fearing former Marine, said he believes he is “helping these kids be better people.” He says he not a lawyer and “I don’t know the Constitution.”
Kennedy said he has never required his athletes to join him and that nobody is punished if they chose not to attend.
However, he also acknowledged that he has also routinely held pregame locker-room prayers, which he now agrees involved a “captive audience” and which have also raised concerns of district officials. Going forward, Kennedy said at a news conference Wednesday, he will no longer hold those pregame prayers.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/21/21-418/219953/20220331162716763_Bremerton%20Community%20Members-Amicus%20Brief.PDF
This is how one of the students put it:
I always listened and did as I was told. I
wanted to play football and treated [Petitioner’s] prayer time as any other order from
a coach such as to exercise, attend study hall,
or execute a play. In respect[,] I always took a
knee but never bowed my head. For four years
I knelt for [Petitioner] in solidarity as he
prayed so there would be no objection to me
playing football.
Kennedy said he has never required his athletes to join him and that nobody is punished if they chose not to attend.
Thanks jeffy for doing the legwork of proving me right.
What the coach SAYS, and what the coach EXPECTS, aren't necessarily the same thing. Of COURSE he is going to say that no one is expected to pray. He is a person in a position of authority, to whom many if not all of his football players look up to as a mentor. Crucially he is also a person that the football players need support from if they want any chance of getting a college football scholarship. He is being quite clear in setting expectations of what it takes to enjoy his good graces. ESPECIALLY since he HAS said, explicitly, that he prays not just as a personal expression of faith, but because he thinks it is “helping these kids be better people.” He is absolutely grooming them to become Christians, using the power of his position as an authority figure to do so, because he thinks he is helping them by doing so.
Oh boy, what a mess of autistic screeching that was.
1: He is absolutely grooming them to become Christians, using the power of his position as an authority figure to do so, because he thinks he is helping them by doing so.
The horror, a Christian doing what they've been doing for 2000 years. In a Christian nation (by population) this should be as noncontroversial as seeing a church anywhere.
2: He is a person in a position of authority, to whom many if not all of his football players look up to as a mentor. Crucially he is also a person that the football players need support from if they want any chance of getting a college football scholarship. He is being quite clear in setting expectations of what it takes to enjoy his good graces. ESPECIALLY since he HAS said, explicitly, that he prays not just as a personal expression of faith, but because he thinks it is “helping these kids be better people.” You still haven't shown that what he did was malicious or unfair to non-participants. And neither did those arguing before the court.
3: Throw away all I just said and lets say you're right. The only way to prevent this from happening again would be to impose a religious test on public employees. And there's no chance in hell that passes constitutional muster.
3: Throw away all I just said and lets say you're right. The only way to prevent this from happening again would be to impose a religious test on public employees. And there's no chance in hell that passes constitutional muster.
No, just do what was done before this decision: prayer is fine, but not a *public* prayer, at an *official* event, *with students*, by *authority figures*.
Authority figures in school shouldn't be using their authority, either implicitly or explicitly, to proselytize students.
" there's a difference between praying and teaching prepubescent children about what to do with their genitals or what you do with yours"
"What's the difference?"
Yikes
Jeffy can’t understand that.
So you would agree that making students attend a catechism class mandatory would be a bad law? Please see California state representative introduces bill to mandate Drag dance attendance.
when he said "OK groomer" you sure were first to respond to the scene
Did the coach tell players not to tell their parents?
Because the groomers certainly did do that with young children.
Uh, one other difference between 1976 and now: even the dumbest school kids can access any book, and other material they want, without a "library".
Reason is pathetic evil.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1545440829916844034?t=USLcyMaZVM16oraOH68VzA&s=19
“Those [dollars] are hers. She earned them.” Drag queen teaches a child to perform for cash tips at a “family-friendly” drag show
The drag queen says that “this is the inclusivity and community drag brings” and suggests that if you are opposed to what you saw in the video you’re part of the “radical Right”
[Video]
InSuRrEcTiOn!
https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1545692411250319360?t=QRV5QuU1iNtCSUHgwCTvuQ&s=19
The global uprising has begun:
Video footage of Sri Lankan protesters taking over the President's residence in Colombo.
Coming soon to a country near you.
[Videos]
Good for them. The Canadian truckers were too gentle and polite and are now in jail as political prisoners.
Glad to see the Europeans and Sri Lankans have no such compulsions. The proles need to make the unelected Davos aristocrats and their lackeys piss themselves and flee.
compunction
That too, but being "nice" is a Canadian compulsion.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1545803110001647616?t=c-FUqjw2cUqMdG7dumVliw&s=19
This is your nation on ESG.
Any questions?
[Link]
https://twitter.com/MarshallCohen/status/1545849827535233026?t=6jnQP-Bwvjncb9uePr_MFA&s=19
Shocking scenes of upheval and political violence in Sri Lanka. Protesters stormed the president's house (and swam in his pool). They set the prime minister's home on fire. This comes amid protests about their handling of Sri Lanka's "collapsing" economy.
[Link]
Who decides now which books a high school library will purchase? Is failure to carry "We the Living" or "Economics in One Lesson" banning books or just recognition that every book cannot fit on the available shelves? Some parental input is required to insure a balance of ideas are included, including Rand, Hazlett, Friedman, Heinlein, etc.
Leaving out Sowell?
Racist
I thought he was de-blacked.
Leaving out Sowell?
Don't you even care about the white race uncle toms?
(now I'm covered both ways)
"Book bans" they keep using that word, I do not think it means what the reason thinks it means
It never means what I actually means.
"It is to prepare citizens for pluralism."
Can school choice achieve this if are children are educated in silos that only expose them to a limited number of ideas.? What happen to when the child grows up goes to college and finds out that there are people of different races and nationalities? When the child finds out that Darwin's ideas are commonly accepted? Preparing for pluralism means exposure to it as children grow up.
When they get to college they get the same siloed exposure, if not even moreso.
Said above, I like this "Preparing for Pluralism" educational ideology.
But let's not expose those kids to capitalism, meritocracy, actual variations in ability and interest (i.e. natural inequality), and personal responsibility, right?
I am in favor of exposing kids to ALL of the ideas. Are you?
Like most people, I suspect you are only in favor of exposing kids to the ideas that you like, and will heartily agree with banning ideas from the classroom for the ideas that you don't like in the name of 'protecting the kids'.
Banning ideas in the name of protecting kids only leads to poorly-educated kids who lack critical thinking, are susceptible to demagoguery, and are otherwise just indoctrinated robots.
I am in favor of considering age, vulnerability, and education psychology, along with student-teacher relationships and parental preferences.
Do you deny ANY need to "protect" kids?
You're asking the soy who thinks the US has no right to deny asylum to someone who molests children while waiting for his asylum hearing...
Considering factors like age only means that the ideas expressed should be in an age-appropriate manner, not that the ideas should never be presented at all at that age.
What do you mean by "vulnerability" or "education psychology"? You are in favor of trigger warnings now?
And what do you mean by "student-teacher relationships" and "parental preferences"? I do not think that individual parents should have veto power over the curriculum for an entire class. Permitting this only leads to a curriculum that caters to the lowest-common denominator.
Do you deny ANY need to "protect" kids?
From what? What is the potential harm that you are afraid of?
Do you think that, for example, telling 2nd graders that, sometimes, two men or two women can fall in love, is something that the kids should be protected from? If so, why?
I will guess that you are not a parent. At the very least you seem dismissive of parental rights to control (yes, control) the lives of their kids, including what information they get and when.
The student-teacher relationship issue includes everything from parental-like attachments that very young kids develop to actual crushes and romantic fantasies for some older kids. And across all ages, teacher represent not just authorities with legally defined supervisory powers, but become emotionally powerful figures in kid's lives. This might be good and necessary, but like any official authorities, we want to carefully define roles and limits--just like with cops.
As for homosexual relationships for second graders, what they need to hear is that some kids have two mommies and some kids have two daddies, without any criticism or endorsement. And in most schools, kids will then discuss on their own, including some biased viewpoints. Do you have a problem with that?
>As for homosexual relationships for second graders, what they need to hear is that some kids have two mommies and some kids have two daddies, without any criticism or endorsement.
A lot of recent controversy has been about attempts to ban kids from even hearing that. The "Don't Say Gay" bill in Florida, for instance, is so vaguely worded that it could easily be interpreted to ban any mention of gay people by anyone. Footage of discussion of the bill before passage seems to indicate that vagueness was intentional.
It doesn't matter if a reasonable person would interpret the bill more narrowly, because a large portion of the population is not reasonable. A whole bunch of people freaked out because two women kissed in a recent Disney movie, even though all they did was kiss, nothing sexual happened, because they "didn't want to have to explain that to their kids." People like that are often driving these book bans.
^child molester
"The "Don't Say Gay" bill in Florida, for instance, is so vaguely worded that it could easily be interpreted to ban any mention of gay people by anyone"
If you're totally illiterate, sure. If you're that illiterate, the First Amendment could be interpreted to permit murder.
Because sheer ignorance has no limit on how much it misinterprets.
"A whole bunch of people freaked out because two women kissed in a recent Disney movie, even though all they did was kiss, nothing sexual happened, because they "didn't want to have to explain that to their kids." People like that are often driving these book bans."
HOW DARE AN AUDIENCE NOT APPLAUD EVERYTHING THAT A MOVIE STUDIO DOES!!!
"I do not think that individual parents should have veto power over the curriculum for an entire class."
How many parents, in your eyes, are required to "veto" the curriculum for an entire class? A number or percentage would be lovely.
"Do you think that, for example, telling 2nd graders that, sometimes, two men or two women can fall in love, is something that the kids should be protected from? If so, why?"
Why is a teacher's sexual orientation anything a 7 yr old should know or care about? Seems awfully weird to demand to be allowed to discuss their sexual preferences with children under the age of 8.
How many parents, in your eyes, are required to "veto" the curriculum for an entire class? A number or percentage would be lovely.
Under our current system, it's a collective decision that ought to be made by the school board after careful deliberation. Not because an angry mob descended on a meeting.
If parents want 100% control over the curriculum of their kids, they should homeschool. That is the only solution. Not even private schools will cater to the demands of individual parents.
Why is a teacher's sexual orientation anything a 7 yr old should know or care about?
I'm not talking about the teacher's sexual orientation. I'm talking just generally about the topic of two men or two women falling in love. Have you ever read a children's book? A common theme in many many many of them is a prince and a princess falling in love, or something like that. So, why can't the teacher read a story about two princes falling in love? Hmm?
Collectivistjeff thinks homosexuality should be taught to 7 year olds...
But if one person objects to Abraham Lincoln and the Gettysburg Address that should be removed from a college library because one person is a "collective decision"? When schools cave to the demands of an angry mob to fire a teacher who prayed on the 50 yard line after a football game, you will come out defending that teacher right?
LOL in the case of the praying coach, it was the other way around. It was the mob that wanted him to continue praying. And SCOTUS validated the mob.
"Under our current system, it's a collective decision that ought to be made by the school board after careful deliberation. Not because an angry mob descended on a meeting."
How many have changed curricula based on an "angry mob"?
"If parents want 100% control over the curriculum of their kids, they should homeschool. That is the only solution. Not even private schools will cater to the demands of individual parents."
Then permit them to remove their money from the system to do so.
"I'm talking just generally about the topic of two men or two women falling in love. Have you ever read a children's book? A common theme in many many many of them is a prince and a princess falling in love, or something like that. So, why can't the teacher read a story about two princes falling in love? Hmm?"
Because homosexuality is profoundly abnormal. We do not discuss hermaphrodites when discussing boys and girls with 7 year olds given the miniscule odds of them ever meeting one. We lack the time to go through every conceivable lifestyle.
I'd also oppose us discussing polygamy with 7 year olds because DISCUSSING SEX WITH YOUNG KIDS IS REALLY WEIRD.
How many have changed curricula based on an "angry mob"?
Well let's see, how many anti-CRT bills were passed in state legislatures?
Then permit them to remove their money from the system to do so.
I would broadly be fine with that arrangement under a school choice regime, sure.
Because homosexuality is profoundly abnormal.
I see. So the purpose of schools is to cast one sexual orientation as socially normative, and all the others as abnormal and weird. I thought you didn't want schools to indoctrinate kids?
And for the last time, reading a story about Snow White is not "DISCUSSING SEX" and it is dishonest for you all to continue to claim that any discussion about any same-sex couple is equivalent to graphic sex talk.
"Well let's see, how many anti-CRT bills were passed in state legislatures?"
Not an answer and anti-CRT is not a mob any more than anti-KKK bills are passed due to a mob.
"I see. So the purpose of schools is to cast one sexual orientation as socially normative, and all the others as abnormal and weird. I thought you didn't want schools to indoctrinate kids?"
No, schools do not have the time to engage with the never-ending addition of new, even more laughable sexual orientations (how many letters long is the acronym now?) so mentioning any outside of the one needed for, you know, the existence of the species is a waste of time.
ESPECIALLY WHEN INVOLVING KIDS YOUNGER THAN EIGHT.
"Banning ideas in the name of protecting kids only leads to poorly-educated kids who lack critical thinking"
Neat, Jeff just came out in favor of teaching Intelligent Design and holding Bible study classes in public schools.
...or does your newfound and unusually tolerant educational material policy only apply to teaching nine-year-olds how to give blowjobs to adults?
ML wants kids indoctrinated into a jingoistic cult of patriotism. They can sing the national anthem on demand, they can recite the pledge of allegiance with gusto, they will 'know' that America is the greatest nation on earth, but they will have no real reason why. The very thought that other nations or other people can come up with ideas or methods that are superior to how Americans do things, is heresy and blasphemy and proof that you hate America and are a traitor. There is no need to read literature from any authors other than dead white European men. After all they are the source of all 'real' civilization. There is no need to study the history of anyone else other than America and Europe. After all they are the unparalleled masters of the planet and only they matter. There is no need to study sociology or really to talk about any social problems. Everyone knows that every social problem is created by a lack of work ethic and a lack of bootstraps by those people whining and complaining that they don't get enough handouts. Men should play sports and learn how to fix engines. Women should learn how to cook and sew. That is what a proper education entails.
I know you know that I'm a Canadian who prefers living in Canada, so why the rant about American nationalism?
It's your knee-jerk tribalist reaction, isn't it?
You couldn't dismiss the fact that you're wildly hypocritical when it comes to teaching Christianity in schools versus teaching your Wokianity, so you sperged out about the hated "other".
Look at my post versus Jeff's reaction, folks. Is there any doubt that he's a Woketian religious zealot?
My story is at least as valid as your story. You want to make shit up about what I believe? Then I get to make shit up about what you believe.
Nobody made anything up about you, you retarded shill. You seem to think everyone has the memory of goldfish and can't remember things you were passionately arguing for right here last week.
Anyway enough trying to dodge the question, Jeffy:
Are you in favor of teaching Intelligent Design and holding Bible study classes in public schools, or does your new educational material policy only apply to teaching nine-year-olds how to give blowjobs to adults?
Nobody made anything up about you,
lol in the very same comment you write
or does your new educational material policy only apply to teaching nine-year-olds how to give blowjobs to adults
sure, you're not making up anything.
your question deserves nothing but contempt. go fuck yourself
"sure, you're not making up anything."
The very materials you were defending had an instruction on exactly that.
"your question deserves nothing but contempt."
Run away, you dishonest coward. This is exactly what I expected from a complete and utter hypocrite and paid shill like you.
Remember Jeff's post, folks, the next time he insists he doesn't evade questions and argue in bad faith.
Also, to quote Reason's biggest troll;
"someone doesn't like it when his dirty smear is turned against him, does he?"
https://reason.com/2022/07/09/the-dangerous-lesson-of-book-bans-in-public-school-libraries/?comments=true#comment-9590219
Jeffy is very angry with you for smacking him around so much. Not realizing it’s his fault for defending leftist groomer policies.
How can you say Darwin's ideas are commonly accepted when there are dozens, if not hundred groups in and out of government dedicated to preventing extinction?
The only animal whose elimination is NOT opposed by several organizations is man.
Can school choice achieve this if are children are educated in silos that only expose them to a limited number of ideas.?
What are the expansive ideas being taught in public school right now?
Good question.
White people are bad?
"Can school choice achieve this if are children are educated in silos that only expose them to a limited number of ideas.?"
That is already happening. This is a response to that.
"What happen to when the child grows up goes to college and finds out that there are people of different races and nationalities?"
The existence of other races and nationalities is unknown to anybody in the country? Seriously?
https://twitter.com/ShutDown_DC/status/1545421407223521280?t=ND6PzgVmTy1T1lKpm65c0Q&s=19
DC Service Industry Workers... If you see Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, Coney Barrett or Roberts DM us with the details!
We'll venmo you $50 for a confirmed sighting and $200 if they're still there 30 mins after your message.
[Link]
Explicit threats against rublicans is oaky and not harrassment
Jihad!
Twitter's inevitable shareholder suits leading to bankruptcy will be glorious.
I'm sure Justice Brennan would have ruled exactly the same way if the school board had been tring to remove ordered Ryan Anderson's When Harry Became Sally from high school libraries, right?
https://twitter.com/TJLakers01/status/1545760191160848384?t=0Zi-bVJPfF31qzZOyoYkJQ&s=19
This is how crazy it's getting-Bidens FBI showed up at a North Dakota women's house for posting a paragraph of the Declaration of Independence on Facebook....
I’m curious why slaughterhouse 5 was banned.
I also can’t imagine that it mattered one way or the other.
It's somewhat anti-Christian and rather violent.
Oh, no! We can't have local tax payers decide how the kids in the local schools that they pay for are taught! We must have teachers unions and activists swoop in an indoctrinate them in the ways of socialism, gay sex and transgenderism, and anybody who opposes that is an evil reactionary and vile Christian! /sarc
Public schools in a community should reflect the values of that community, and if there are controversial issues, they should find the lowest common denominator.
Public schools are not a place where teachers can exercise free speech rights or where librarians can peddle books they like to youngsters at taxpayer expense.
Public schools in a community should reflect the values of that community, and if there are controversial issues, they should find the lowest common denominator.
Then you won't get educated kids. You'll get kids who are robotic clones of their parents.
<i.Then you won't get educated kids. You'll get kids who are robotic clones of their parents.
As opposed to...
Collectivistjeff desires children be turned into robotic clones of totalitarian globalist design, so... the status quo.
As opposed to students who can think and reason for themselves, not just repeat what they are "supposed to", based on EITHER the teachers OR the parents.
"Some biological males are actually women"
Before people can "think and reason for themselves", they need a basic understanding of how things actually work, and public schools are failing miserably at that.
So, what they are actually producing mostly is illiterate drones who mindlessly repeat leftist indoctrination.
I am not defending the status quo. I absolutely agree that public schools should be doing a much better job than they are currently doing. What I am defending is the concept of a well-rounded liberal education in general. Is that what kids should be receiving? Yes or no? If you agree with me on that, then let's think about ways that it could be implemented. If not, then tell us your ideas instead.
“Should be receiving”? “Liberal”? What does that even mean?
If you hand over education to government, it will be used for political indoctrination that benefits the state.
In a free society, parents need to decide how to educate their children and what values to instill in them.
If you don’t trust parents to do that, you are a totalitarian.
If you hand over education to government, it will be used for political indoctrination that benefits the state.
In the most cynical of interpretations, sure.
In a free society, parents need to decide how to educate their children and what values to instill in them.
I completely agree! Parents can decide that for their own kids.
If you don’t trust parents to do that, you are a totalitarian.
I do not trust parents to do that for ALL KIDS. For the same reason that I don't trust parents, or anyone, to know what is best for my life either. There is nothing magical about parenthood that imbues in parents the correct choice for a curriculum. Which part of the birthing process creates within the parents the knowledge of the best way to teach algebra to their kid? There are people who actually know best practices for education. They are called teachers. Perhaps we should listen to what they have to say on how to construct a curriculum for kids. And if parents want to veto the advice of teachers FOR THEIR OWN KIDS, then I support the ability of parents to do that, via homeschooling. What I reject is the notion that parents are somehow better qualified to construct a curriculum for EVERYBODY'S kids, and the teachers should just shut up and do whatever the parents say, even if what the parents demand is ridiculous or contrary to best practices.
The curriculum should be the lowest common denominator among all parents.
Yes, teachers should shut up and do as they are told by the board.
Except there’s really no evidence that teaching progressive politics or social views trains kids to think or reason any better than teaching traditional politics or social views. Those skills are developed through a thorough grounding in the basics - maths, literature, science, grammar, civics, etc.
"Except there’s really no evidence that teaching progressive politics or social views trains kids to think or reason any better than teaching traditional politics or social views"
Evidence of the last 20-30 years clearly indicates the opposite.
Robotic clones of the official activist party line?
Jeff seems to be ok with that because TOP MEN.
Robotic clones of their critical theory marinated teachers?
You obviously have never met teenagers.
In any case, no matter how they turn out, it is the parents' right and responsibility to educate their kids and teach their kids about morality and sex in the way the parents want, not the state's.
Public schools demonstrably have failed miserably at educating kids in the basics: math, reading, writing, economics, science, history, civics. That is another reason why they should stop trying to teach about sex, politics, and morality and stick to the core subjects.
it is the parents' right and responsibility to educate their kids and teach their kids about morality and sex in the way the parents want, not the state's.
Sure, parents can and should teach their kids about anything they want. No one is claiming otherwise.
Public schools demonstrably have failed miserably at educating kids in the basics: math, reading, writing, economics, science, history, civics. That is another reason why they should stop trying to teach about sex, politics, and morality and stick to the core subjects.
So, in the absence of a fully school choice regime, which we both support, what is your plan?
1. Work to make public schools better in providing the education that we think they ought to have
2. Continually bitch and moan about them and offer nothing constructive
Which one?
Of course I think we should make public schools “better”. And that means forcing them to focus on basic, uncontroversial, practical skills and knowledge.
Sex education, political ideology, and morality have no place in public schools.
I reject your unrealistic duopoly and insert my own. Parents, utilizing the public school board meetings, voice concerns and objections. School board members listen to said concerns and objections. Failure to do so should result in being voted out in the next election. Wow, look at that, it looks like parents are trying to do that. It appears that certain extremists are the ones who are trying to stymy parents by declaring them terrorists, throwing them out of school board meetings, and attempting to stop free and fair elections of new school boards.
Failure to do so should result in being voted out in the next election.
Why? Because the curriculum should be decided upon by the mob?
You are just continuing to do Option #2. Fine, you are voicing "concerns and objections".
The curriculum should be decided on by the people paying for it: the parents. Nobody else.
Teachers are free to give input, but they do not have authority to override the democratic decisions of parents.
"Then you won't get educated kids. You'll get kids who are robotic clones of their parents."
You're pretending that public school is churning out highly educated kids now.
No, I am stating an ideal that public schools ought to reach. Quite a few of them don't reach this ideal, that is true. So, what would you see done to have these schools reach this ideal?
Shut them all down. Every single one.
It is the height of cruelty to demand kids be stuck in a failing system in the hopes it gets better.
Then how do kids get educated in your world?
The same way they get clothed, fed, bathed, housed, and every other fucking thing in their life you fucking clown.
You're the product of the Toronto public school system, cytotoxic, and you're as stupid as a sack of literal dog shit. You're exactly what we get when a clinically retarded person gets shoved through school on a gentleman's D- and graduates sincerely convinced that human beings with testes and a penis can become pregnant and bear children, yet can't construct a basic logical premise or perform rudimentary mathematics.
Private schools. Parents working together to handle it. Pure homeschooling.
Every option is better than what is there now.
What exactly is a banned book? One that has been challenged or actually removed? What about "popular" books that used to be common in school libraries and newer titles on the same subjects that are now absent?
Does nearly every elementary and above school library have Joel Chandler Harris' Uncle Remus tales? Is Gone With the Wind on middle and high school library shelves?
Who chooses the titles in school libraries and what % are from the 20th Century and earlier?
Are there still books on inventors, explorers, scientists, medical discoveries, entrepreneurs, political and military leaders?
I remember something about a child being suspended for drawing a picture of a gun. Wouldn't the library have books with pictures of historical arms and weapons, or are such things now "banned"?
Are there still books on hunting, fishing, trapping and animal husbandry in school libraries?
Hell, is this kind of stuff still in public libraries?
This. I’m a big Jean Lee Latham fan for juvenile history. A very tiny number of her books remain in school and public libraries, much to my dismay. Does that qualify as banned?
I remember buying some books from my own school library at a sale of discontinued books. One book I bought was full of praise for the Ian Smith regime in what was then Rhodesia.
So, was the book discarded as outdated, or for wrong ideas? Either or both would be possible.
It is to prepare citizens for pluralism.
Hard pass.
Humans naturally segregate themselves, it's part of free association. Pluralism would only be necessary if you want to defeat human nature. I know better. And it's no surprise that notable neo-con French thinks he can do what 10k years of civilization couldn't.
https://twitter.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/1545455559331168256?t=OHh4lID433zlYg-pJryJzw&s=19
Just a reminder that we've sent more than 15x the amount of money Trump asked for to complete our border wall to the Ukraine to defend their border.
But that's different, thousands of men from another country were illegally swarming into their... oh wait...
Well fuck you, that's why.
Yeah, but they were in mechanical contraptions when they immigrated into Ukraine, so that's a no-go.
I assume The Turner Diaries is available in every school then?
That's different because reasons. Teaching kids to give BJ's to adult men is about love, that book was about hate.
This was generally a good essay with much that I agree with. Regarding school choice, however, I see the same thing missing from the equation that its advocates rarely grapple with.
A third line of thinking takes a pox-on-both-your-houses approach. Don't choose between public school parents and public school educators. Blow up the system. Pass backpack funding. Expand school choice. That way, parents win and teachers win. Parents can find the school that meets their standards of excellence and/or teaches their values. Educators can build institutions centered around their expertise. Families will then choose from a menu, and that menu will cover almost every educational meal.
Families will not simply be choosing from a menu. That is because the schools will still have a say in whether to enroll each student. Charter schools, being privately run public schools, cannot turn students away for just any reason, but they can have more strict codes of student discipline with less protection from expulsion than regular public schools, and they can require parent participation. They also tend to enroll lower numbers of students with disabilities and English language deficiencies. Private schools (voucher programs) are still free to deny enrollment to a student for a large range of reasons that public schools would not be able to use. Then, of course, there would be the top private schools where the wealthy send their children that would have tuition far above what any tax-funded voucher would provide. And there is simple matters of geography as well, in that there needs to be a suitable school close enough that the parent will be able to arrange transportation.
So, no, parents would not be able to choose from "almost every educational meal." Meanwhile, regular public schools will still be required to accept any student that lives in the zone and build up a thick folder of discipline records and attempts at interventions before the student could be removed for misbehavior. When people talk about vouchers as a way for kids to "escape" "failing" public schools, they often mean that they should be able to escape from being around certain other kids that would disrupt their learning or be a "bad influence".
I'll always remember one part of a news segment on charter schools. I don't recall what show or network it was, this was a long time ago, but it really showed me what the issue is for some parents. A father (who happened to be a Black man, if that matters to anyone) told the interviewer about a time he was walking by the public school that his child would attend when the child was that age. He saw kids throwing textbooks out the window of the second floor. He said how he wanted to be able to send his child to a different school so that his child would not be in the same school as the "book throwers".
That is a perfectly understandable reaction for a parent, and as a teacher, I would never criticize a parent for wanting that. But as the author argues, the hard way of dealing with education requires understanding the core mission. Why does publicly funded education exist at all? The U.S. Constitution is silent on education, but all 50 state constitutions require the creation of a public education system. Many, perhaps most, establish a free public education as a positive right for every child. For example (as amended in 1998),
ARTICLE IX EDUCATION
SECTION 1. Public education. The education of children is a fundamental value of the people of the State of Florida. It is, therefore, a paramount duty of the state to make adequate provision for the education of all children residing within its borders. Adequate provision shall be made by law for a uniform, efficient, safe, secure, and high quality system of free public schools that allows students to obtain a high quality education and for the establishment, maintenance, and operation of institutions of higher learning and other public education programs that the needs of the people may require.
George W. Bush pushed for 'accountability' in public education through a law titled "No Child Left Behind". The core value expressed in all of this is that public education is for everyone. It cannot live up to this value if it depends on the resources or knowledge or motivation of parents to examine and choose from a "menu" of options. Choice can certainly be a component of providing for public education, but any plan or method of school choice is going to fail to meet that standard and be incomplete if it would only allow some parents to find good schools for their children. If the plan cannot address the needs of all children, then it is inherently insufficient.
"If the plan cannot address the needs of all children, then it is inherently insufficient."
Some other commenters have pointed out we *already* have school choice for the well-off. They can move to a better district if they can afford the home prices there (which might be higher *because* it's in a better district). Or they can pay tuition at a private school.
So there's already an insufficient school-choice program which meets the needs of some children but not others.
They can move to a better district if they can afford the home prices there (which might be higher *because* it's in a better district). Or they can pay tuition at a private school.
This brings up the other issue rarely addressed by school choice advocates. Why would some districts be better than others? Why would some schools (public or private) be better? Is there some particular reason why the schools in an area with higher home prices should be expected to be better than those in lower income areas? If the problem with schools that aren't good enough is due to something at the school, then there should be no reason why every school couldn't become better simply by following the successful models of the best schools. There wouldn't need to be school choice to find the best schools then. Choice would then come down to wanting specific programs or special needs that not all schools could meet, not quality.
I am often puzzled by what seems to be a lack of curiosity about what makes a school 'good' or 'bad' in these discussions, especially here at Reason. To me, that seems to be the most important question to be studying. Even when thinking in terms of school choice, and for parents to be able to choose the best school for their children, they certainly need to be able to identify which school that would be. If we can identify what makes for a "good" school, then it becomes much easier to make publicly-funded education more equitable and better for all students.
"If the problem with schools that aren't good enough is due to something at the school, then there should be no reason why every school couldn't become better simply by following the successful models of the best schools. There wouldn't need to be school choice to find the best schools then."
Fine, while waiting for that to happen, parents (all of them, not just wealthy ones) should be empowered to make their own choices.
Fine, while waiting for that to happen, parents (all of them, not just wealthy ones) should be empowered to make their own choices.
And again, what basis should those parents use to determine which schools are better than others?
Why pose that question merely to parents?
What criteria should the *government* use when creating schools?
You just said that parents "should be empowered to make their own choices", so I asked you on what basis they would be able to do that. It's the school choice position (and apparently yours) that parents should have 'choice'. It is a perfectly natural question to ask how they are supposed to do that. You seem to be working hard to avoid answering.
You're missing the very context in which this discussion is occurring.
Why is the state displacing the parents in the first place, and what gives it the authority to do so?
Parents have the duty - hence the right - to bring up their children, teaching them what's needed for a fulfilling and virtuous life. On some subjects they might need the help of experts, whom they then hire or fire. It is to them you must speak about the details of their responsibilities, not some random voter whose authority over other peoples' children is limited.
The idea that parents can abdicate their educational responsibilities, *even if they want to,* is absurd. If they like the quality of the state schools, after properly researching them, then fine. If they haven't verified the quality of state schools they should do the teaching themselves, or hire tutors, or even find a private or charter school, etc.
It is astonishing arrogance to blather about omg what if the parents make the wrong choices? Well if some parents make wrong choices that does not even come close to justifying the state in displacing *all* parents on behalf of higher vision.
What vision, in your view, would justify displacing the right/duty of parents to educate their children? What makes you assume that parents and outsiders have equal claims to educate the child? Only on the assumption - backed by evidence - that parents *as a whole* have consistently violated their duties, and that the government (elected by a majority which includes those same bad parents) must make decisions on behalf of the incompetent parents - can you even begin to justify state overruling of parents.
So the burden is on *you* to come up with some standard by which parents fail but unchosen government schools, acting against the parents' wishes, succeed.
Maybe the government schools are more enlightened on sexual matters and should displace the parents for that reason?
Maybe government schools are more academically rigorous than the curriculum which parents, if left unfettered, would choose for their children?
Or maybe you can find some other standard by which overriding parental wishes *demonstrably* is better than letting parents do their duty as parents?
If you're going to PEN America for staunch free speech principles, I'd look elsewhere.
School choice already exists. It isn’t easy and it is cost prohibitive, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that schools aren’t already being “chosen”. I moved 10 minutes away and took on 100k more in mortgage debt just so I could “choose” my public school. And it is a thousand times better than the previous school district.
While “school choice” would make it easier and less financially difficult to choose a school, if the current iteration isn’t honoring parent choice, then how does a voucher system do that? You want CRT and nothing but black history taught? Fine. Move to that school district. It’s cheaper there. For a reason. It’s more expensive where I live BECAUSE the schools are good. Which means the fact people are willing to pay to be there, they are more invested in the quality of that education. And that education quality is directly related to its refusal to let leftist politics dictate to it.
My biggest gripe with the above “solution” is that it refuses to acknowledge that choice already exists in the current system and is trying to claim parents have no right to that choice, but they would under a voucher/“proper” school choice option.
How? What mechanism prevents that version from having the same lack of parent choice that the current version supposedly has? None. Absolutely zilch.
If the local community has no right to influence the education in that community, then “school choice” will not protect parent choice any better.
Some, James Lindsay and others, have been making this exact point.
School choice solves nothing if the cancer isn't cut out from the core.
I’ll look those up. Thanks for the names.
I don't know of there's been any formal treatment on it, or if it's just a Twitter discussion at this point
But if you go to Lindsay's Twitter profile and search "school choice" it'll likely take you to some of his comments and retweets from others
Looks like he has a podcast type thing at New Discourse.
Yes!
Does a lot of content there
There are different types of school choice.
One type of school choice lets parents pick from any *public* school in the area. If all the public schools are the same quality, then no, that type of choice doesn't really do much.
But another type of school choice lets parents pick from *any* school, public or private. That type of school choice opens up many more options.
However, no matter what school choice regime you're referring to, no school will permit parents to micro-manage every single detail of the curriculum. If you really want that level of control, the only option is homeschooling.
Furthermore, there will (and should) always be some type of accreditation or accountability process. And as a part of that process there will be requirements on the school as to what type of curriculum it should offer. The school has to be a legitimate school after all.
There’s a lot of managing that can occur without resorting to micro-management. And parents absolutely have a right to influence the boards they elect in selecting curriculum.
If parents don’t have that right in the schools that already exist, then whatever version of school choice you are promoting is not going to reflect parental wishes, either. Last I checked, conservatives don’t exactly have any (ANY) options reflecting their values. Parents relying on a free market without any power to influence beyond their money doesn’t necessarily provide what they are looking for. It isn’t happening in the market that exists outside of education, what would make it exist inside education?
School boards most certainly can "micro-manage every single detail of the curriculum" if they so choose. That is their purpose. Teachers can make recommendations, but they don't have the final authority, the people who pay have that.
And the accreditation process is also decided on by voters and parents, not teachers.
Teachers are employees: they either do what their employer requires them to do or they get fired.
Arguing this with Jeff is pointless. He has 100% dug in his heels on his position and we’re all just too stupid/myopic/conservative to grok it.
Maybe you could start by not insulting teachers, nor the teaching profession itself.
Maybe have a couple kids in the public education establishment the last two years or listen to people that do, so you can understand where parents dissatisfaction with the establishment come from.
Look, I get that obviously someone close to you is in the profession, but you are falling prey to a TOP MEN fallacy. There are great teachers out there, just like there are great cops and yes, even great politicians. The vast majority are mediocre at best (this applies to almost every profession if we’re being totally honest) and are in no way, shape, or form, “experts”. We are just going to have to respectfully disagree with each other on this one too.
Maybe you could gargle my balls, faggot. Teachers are not professionals. They are not experts. They are the dumbest motherfuckers who couldn't even hack an undergrad business curriculum, let alone a professional degree. I'm virtually certain now that you obtained a teaching certificate after your 7th year of undergrad and that's why you're so fucking assblasted at teachers being treated like the know-nothing sacks of dog shit that they are, but fuck you and fuck every other stupid halfwit sack of shit like you. You are stupid. You are uneducated. You are not a professional of any sort. And to top it all off you're a pedophile.
Yes teachers are employees. And school boards ought to hire teachers to be *teachers*, not to be babysitting robots just reading from a script prepared by the school board.
Yes, in our system, it is absolutely possible for a school board to so completely micromanage the curriculum of a school that teachers have virtually zero flexibility at all in creating their lesson plans. Is that the system you advocate for?
Instead what I advocate is that school boards provide broad guidance. They might set general guidelines of which topics are covered, but they don't literally write the lesson plans.
You can advocate whatever you want to. But unless you make that legally binding, it doesn’t matter, because it is clear that many parents disagree with you. They ARE going to remove sexual, transgender, anti-Christian and neo-Marxist content.
What do YOU advocate for in this regard?
Not being a degenerate pedophile whose entire self-identity depends on discussing the way you like to have sex with 5 year olds?
I advocate that we abolish public schools altogether.
As long as we have them, parents ought to have final authority, not teachers.
I guess the teachers could learn to code? That's what coal miners were told ad infinitum. They tried to tell reporters that but were banned. Or they could learn to work in solar energy. Many gas pipeline workers were told that. But again for some reason it was insensitive to tell journalists losing their jobs the same advice. Then of course the solar energy market had a minor collapse.
"However, no matter what school choice regime you're referring to, no school will permit parents to micro-manage every single detail of the curriculum. If you really want that level of control, the only option is homeschooling."
Then the parents will keep the money and use that to engage in homeschooling.
And how long do you think French will survive a place that has been shockingly libertarian in its commenting section philosophy? Has French written anywhere that is this open? I don’t even think Twitter is like this.
If Shikha, ENB and Weigel could do it, so can French.
I don't know if Shikha counts as a success story.
I am thinking Ron DeSantis is the test case of imbeciles like French.
If French's issue with Trump was his attitude and character, DeSantis has few to none of those issues.
So, if they do not get behind him, it is evidence that they are full of shit.
"That relevance is related less to legal precedent than to a powerful moral argument that a plurality of the court made in its dicta. That moral argument should guide our disputes about books in schools today."
Yes, four Supreme Court justices out of 9 wrote that admittedly-vague plurality opinion. Which as French acknowledges means it's not precedential, it has whatever value we want to give it, and no more.
For the other 5 justices, 4 upheld school authority and the other justice punted on a technicality. So there was no real precedent.
And it's damning with faint praise to say that a legal opinion isn't helpful as law but is a good source of political wisdom. If it's not helpful as law, the area of the 4 justices' expertise, how can we trust the opinion in other fields?
French seems to go out of his way to confirm every stereotype about himself. This could come out of a list of leftist talking points:
"Which parents should win? Is a majoritarian education a quality education? Is parent-driven public education truly even majoritarian? Isn't the sad reality that school board politics is mainly activist politics, driven more by anger and reaction than by calm and thoughtful reflection? We train educators for a reason, they say. Let teachers teach."
Look, make the adversary play by its own book of rules. They want public schools run by elected officials, rather than by a school-choice system, then hold them to that position and let the elected officials defer to the majority - even defer to most parents - or get voted out.
"We train educators for a reason, they say. Let teachers teach."
And the results speak for themselves.
They're abysmal.
And the alternative is...?
Hiring competent teachers, having high standards, and getting rid of all the guilt and social justice bullshit.
Teach kids to achieve instead of making excuses and reveling in victimhood.
* For starters, elimination of the public sector union system and elimination of tenure.
* Annual school board reviews of teacher performance, with the board making hiring/firing decisions.
* Giving parents a free choice of taking a voucher in the amount of the average per student spending and using it for any private school or home schooling.
* Fire all the administrative staff, counselors, and other overhead.
* Requiring full 12 months of work, with standard 3 week vacations, like other employees; no side gigs, no time off for political activities. Teachers can use the extra time and the summer to take over administrative duties.
* For starters, elimination of the public sector union system and elimination of tenure.
I agree that the public sector union system is problematic. I would not eliminate it (public sector employees have just as much right to associate with each other as any other), but I would look at reforms. And why get rid of tenure?
* Annual school board reviews of teacher performance, with the board making hiring/firing decisions.
I agree with this, and in a lot of districts this already happens.
* Giving parents a free choice of taking a voucher in the amount of the average per student spending and using it for any private school or home schooling.
I agree broadly with this idea.
* Fire all the administrative staff, counselors, and other overhead.
Oh this is just silly. Someone has to order the paper for the copy machine.
* Requiring full 12 months of work, with standard 3 week vacations, like other employees;
Do you really think that teachers don't work at all during the summer?
no side gigs, no time off for political activities.
If you want to treat teachers like all other employees, then they ought to have the same freedom to have side gigs, or to request time off for political activities, as any other employee anywhere else. If any private sector employee can request a PTO day for *whatever reason*, including going to a Bernie Sanders rally if he/she so chooses, then teachers ought to have the same freedom.
Teachers can use the extra time and the summer to take over administrative duties.
Summer is when a lot of teachers have continuing education, summer school, and other obligations already. And it's not like administrative duties can wait only for summer months.
Public sector employees have no right to organize because they don’t operate in a market and aren’t negotiating with a private employer. Public sector unions are illegal elsewhere for that reason. They are intrinsically corrupt.
The reason to get rid of tenure is so that you can fire bad teachers.
It is precisely because teachers have continuing education, summer school, etc that they should be employed for all 12 months and be prevented from taking side gigs or doing something else. These are obligations that are part of their employment.
You don’t need administrative staff to order copy paper. The school principal needs one administrative assistant to answer the phone/keep track of expenses and you need a few janitors. Really, most schools in the world operate that way. The absurdly high per student spending in the US is almost all due to administrative overhead and spending unrelated to teaching.
About political activities, what I mean specifically is (1) there is no time off and no summer break for political activities and (2) at work, public sector employees ought to be strictly politically neutral, whether they are teachers or anything else.
Good heavens. Public employees are not your slaves. You cannot demand that they give up their fundamental rights on their own time.
I didn’t. As I explained, public employees shouldn’t get summers off, something that currently lets them get disproportionately politically active.
In the private sector, my employer can also fire me if they don’t like my politics or my social media presence, even on my own time.
Of course, we can impose reasonable constraints on what public servants can do, even on their own time, if they want to keep their jobs.
If they do, they certainly do not work as teachers. You know how the entire motherfucking school is closed, with the doors locked, and no students or staff inside for 2 and a half months every summer? That's because the teachers are sitting on their fat fucking asses doing nothing. Their employment contract does not require them to teach when students are not in school. In other words, they get to spend those 2.5 months every summer doing what you do every day of your life: sit on your obese fat fucking ass pounding boxes of Twinkies and fighting chuds on Twitter.
Hiring actual professionals and people with relevant degrees instead of “education” majors?
I am fine with raising the bar for teacher qualifications.
I simply insist that teachers be treated like professionals, because that is what they are. Trashing them is not helpful.
If teachers want to be treated like professionals they should consider getting educated like professionals and then acting like professionals. Physicians and attorneys and CPAs and structural engineers and architects and mathematicians and actuaries and software developers do not take 2 and a half months off every summer to go jack themselves off while collecting a full paycheck with a guaranteed-benefit retirement and permanent Cadillac health insurance, nor do they get to keep their jobs even if they perform abysmally and destroy their clients' lives, nor do they throw pathetic little bitch fit tantrums when they are questioned or have to cooperate with others. Professionals demonstrate their expertise and persuade with their leadership. They don't melt down like a small child whenever their methods are called into question, because they are actually capable of defending their methods on their merits. Sorry you lardass fat fucking piece of shit, but your teaching certificate you finally got after 7 years of undergrad at McGill doesn't make you a professional. You are not entitled to anyone's respect. If you want it, earn it like everybody else does.
Prostitutes are professionals too.
Hiring teachers who are better educated then their students would be a good first step. Hiring teachers on the basis of their merit rather than their proclivity to fuck children would be a good second step.
As mentioned by Jason above, "school choice" leaves the public schools with the problems students, whether they be handicapped or jerks and/or with no parental controls. The biggest problem with our schools isn't the schools or teachers, or many to most students, but the social problems foisted off on them by dysfunctional parents and families, as well as the rules forced on schools to try and deal with these problems.
Certainly the public schools should be able to suspend problem students or send them to special disciplinary schools, but try and propose such a reform and tell me how many seconds it takes for them to call you a racist.
So, basically, the public schools take their own bad policies, their failure to deal with the kids who interfere with other kids' learning, and hold school choice hostage to their own bad decisions (and court rulings enabling those bad decisions).
Agree Cal, but the public schools are us and reflect the rules we impose through political leadership, school boards, and the many parents who get mad at the school and the teacher, not the kid, when there is a problem.
PS there are many great kids and students but there are many out of control. There is also a culture of blaming the schools for our own societal dysfunctions, and that is a common attitude not just among the parents of problem kids - if they even exist or engage - but also most parents today. That is the sea change that's been going on for probably 50 years.
Side note - a recent development which is very distracting is that most kids have cell phones now in high school and are on them a lot. If the schools said "no way, leave it at home", the parents of all types would be up in arms. But imagine trying to teach a room full of kids algebra when half of them are on their phones, secretly or not depending on how hard the teacher wants try to keep them off.
Again, good luck cracking down on that without being called a racist.
Some parents bring their problems with them to whichever school they send their kids to. Other parents actually press their kids to achieve, and actually want to be able to choose schools which support such pressure to achieve, rather than capitulate to the other kind of parents you spoke of.
"the public schools are us"
Then play by your own book of rules and let "us" decide what gets taught at the public schools.
I went to public school for 13 years, I can confidently say that teachers were a very big problem. And I went to good public schools.
I can't even imagine what they are like in bad public schools.
https://twitter.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1545870867699159040?t=y9rBg0QBvp6QNT5WQ7vGMw&s=19
NOW: The Dutch have taken back the roadways in protest of the government imposing radical climate legislation on the farming community.
The convoy is currently in front of the Germany border. Follow @lincolnmjay, @Lewis_Brackpool, and myself for updates.
[Link]
Well, Spike Cohen decided to go full retard
https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/status/1545835545305178112?t=5nTt8nsrH7BGuP8LTy9dNQ&s=19
A lot of y'all went from "I support the Canadian truckers!" to "she knew the laws of the country she was in and chose to broke them!" in record time.
Show me the lie, though.
There's no lie, it's just an incredibly stupid comparison.
He's trying really, really hard to go for a "both sidez!" but it doesn't work. At all. Griner wasn't protesting Russian (or American here) law, she was just being entitled and foolish. The truckers were explicitly protesting a dictatorial edict that was suddenly imposed and threatened their livelihoods.
Drug laws may be unjust, but that doesn't make Griner's situation in any way comparable to the truckers. It's not hypocritical to have been outraged at the treatment of the truckers in Canada yet laugh at Griner's predicament.
Further, for Americans, there's much greater significance in Canadian tyranny targeting a group of people than Russian "tyranny" imposed upon one individual.
How are drug laws any less unjust than COVID lockdown laws?
Drug laws aren't just, but they prohibit possession, sale, and manufacture of specific products.
Covid lockdowns prohibit activity necessary to a person's life.
It's a poor, unintelligent, dishonest comparison.
You are an evil clump of cancer who thinks of children as sexual objects, and I would happily beat you to death.
You really have no fucking clue what can and should happen to you as a direct result of your behavior.
If it makes you feel any better, the obese lardass fat fucking piece of shit will be dead from heart disease in probably another 7 or 8 years.
LOL
The little bitch blocked me for saying it was a poor comparison, hinted at global government, and asking if he's "actively anti-racist" motivated.
Total fraud.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1545858734127288326?t=_y-gt9FFU0nSSk8fskELSA&s=19
BREAKING: Woke Female Army Soldier Questions Loyalty to United States after Roe v Wade Decision
[Video]
Perhaps it is time for a dishonorable discharge hearing.
In uniform, we give zero shits what you think about anything.
Dishonorable discharges are reserved exclusively for soldiers who refuse to take experimental drugs or show insufficient fealty to the
emperorpresident.https://twitter.com/SRCHicks/status/1545857199393542144?t=2MbQk5FNhD1RD9yI2KulGA&s=19
Source: Engels in a letter to Marx, November 24, 1847:
“Give a little thought to the Confession of Faith. I think we would do best to abandon the catechetical form and call the thing Communist Manifesto.”
[Link]
Don't choose between public school parents and public school educators. Blow up the system.
David French, terrorist.
Sounds insurrectiony to me.
We ought to lock him up without any due process, just to be sure.
The books parents want to ban in 2022 are gay pornography for 1st graders. Another reason all schooling should be private.
Huh, some sort of July 9 insurrection going on in Sri Lanka... oh and the President made like Justin Trudeau.
https://twitter.com/JerseyJoe1234/status/1545808368719233024?t=COgOXTGsrXxYXVyuwySHAQ&s=19
Breaking:
Albania joins the world-wide uprising against the skyrocketing cost of living under the NWO's "Great Reset"
[Video]
Public schools are always political by definition, and banning prayer in school proves that the first amendment isn’t an issue.
If you support the idea of public school, I don’t see how you can have a problem with government involvement in schools.
Government is supposed to give ever increasing amounts of money to schools, but the schools are supposed to be run by teachers selected by teacher's unions, who are in bed with the Democratic party. That's what we call a "public school".
Public schools are always political by definition, and banning prayer in school proves that the first amendment isn’t an issue.
Students are not banned from praying in public schools. The joke goes something like this: there will be prayer in any school as long as there are math tests. What is 'banned' in public schools is the school or school employees requiring students to pray or leading students in prayer. But I think that you know that. That is exactly what you don't like. You probably want schools that will make kids pray to the God you believe in.
This isn’t about me and my secret desires.
I’m suggesting that if you like the political process deciding to force taxpayers to pay for schools, along with what teachers are allowed to show their students, such as prayer in school, then you l’ve already established the position, and now society is just haggling about the details of going about it. “Public school teacher freedom” as a principle doesn’t exist.
Students are not banned from praying in public schools.
Except when they are
Of course, that's just one example, probably just a misunderstanding. It's not like students are so routinely punished for praying at school that the first 10 pages of every search engine are full of their stories or anything
This, for example, never happened
Neither did this
But hey, at least the kids are allowed to silently read the bible on campus
After all, we aren't censorious around here. Kids should be able to read absolutely anything at school. Everything from Call Me By Your Name to Gender Queer: A Memoir to All Boys Aren't Blue. The whole gamut of human experience.
Or maybe you're a disingenuous piece of shit who will say or do anything to rationalize pedophilia because you're a pedophile who wants schools that will make kids think it's OK to suck a grown man's cock and not tell their mommy or daddy about it. You know, on account of your being a pedophile who wants to fuck little kids.
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1545981872555048960?t=nhB83aWomwhXmmf9Oxl_yQ&s=19
The U.S. Army has suspended retired Lt. Gen. Gary Volesky, its former head of communications, from his mentorship role and placed him under investigation after he posted a tweet that appeared to mock first lady Jill’s tweet about the Supreme Court's recent decision on abortion.
HIS CRIME WAS THIS COMMENT TO HER: Glad to see you finally know what a woman is.”
Did that really happen?
Yes, the guy was suspended/fired.
I didn't see the comment he made, but from what I've seen said about the comment the above seems likely.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/glad-you-finally-know-what-woman-army-general-suspended-over-tweet-jill-biden
"For nearly 50 years, women have had the right to make our own decisions about our bodies. Today, that right was stolen from us," Jill Biden's initial tweet said. Gen. Volesky responded using his personal Twitter account, "Glad to see you finally know what a woman is."
https://twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1545494518123880451?t=XuAo3XptMVc7fvDWvTqJDQ&s=19
White House transcript of Biden remarks is now incorrectly aligned with what this WH assistant press secretary falsely claimed on Twitter, despite the video showing Biden clearly stating “End of quote. Repeat the line.” & *not* “Let me repeat the line."
[Link]
In a recent news item, the president of Hillsdale College, Dr. Larry Arnn, was recorded making comments belittling teachers and education programs at colleges and universities.
Ed departments in colleges. If you work in a college you know, unless you work in the ed department. Ours [Hillsdale’s] is different. They are the dumbest part of every college. [Audience laughs.] You can think about why for a minute. If you study physics, there is a subject. … How does the physical world work? That’s hard to figure out. Politics is actually the study of justice. … Literature. They don’t do it much anymore, but you can read the greatest books, the most beautiful books ever written. Education is the study of how to teach. Is that a separate art? I don’t think so.
Here’s a key thing we are going to try to do. We’re going to try to demonstrate that you don’t have to be an expert to educate a child. Because basically anybody can do it.
He could have said much the same thing with the old line from a George Bernard Shaw play, "Those who can, do; Those who can't, teach." And he would have been just as wrong.
Teaching absolutely is an art in itself. Knowledge of the subject is insufficient to be an effective teacher. He brought up physics, which happens to be my area. I studied physics for quite some time (M.S.), and then became a high school teacher. I can tell you from the following 18 years of experience that my knowledge of physics was only the starting point to becoming an effective physics teacher. You could also ask anyone that studies and loves physics about the physicists that they most admire and men like Richard Feynman will feature high on that list. He not only received a Nobel Prize for his theoretical physics work, but was widely known for his teaching of physics. Teaching and doing are clearly not mutually exclusive.
The truth is that teaching is something you do. The attitude behind Arnn's statements and Shaw's line is a product of the Western world's need for public education during and after the industrial revolution to produce workers. I can imagine it going something like this:
People that will be working at a job doing the same thing every day don't need to be deep thinkers, so why bother paying a premium for teachers that will be able to turn children into well educated adults? Sure, you do need people that will be creative, critical thinkers to be professionals of various types, but that is the minority of adults. The cream will rise to the top without going through the trouble and expense of making the development of every child's full potential a priority. Oh, and why pay teachers a man's wages, when women will do it for a fraction of the cost?
That the president of a college has such a low view of education as an art and profession ("anybody can do it") should be disturbing to any of the parents that pay for their young adult children to attend Hillsdale.
Your life has absolutely no value, groomer.
I have to agree... I will go with a paraphrase of Gusteau from Ratatouille: "anyone can teach. A teacher can come from anywhere... But not just anyone can be a great teacher".
I volunteer at my kids schools a lot. I teach.. a lot. Knowledge of the subject matter is far from the most important factor. It is a communication task. Most people lack the skills and charisma to hold a group of kids attention and engagement for hours.
I routinely have 60 to 90 elematary kids. Keeping them engaged and on task is tough. Then I work with the rare teacher who has "it". Just like Jordan on the basketball court or Hendrix with a guitar, they make it look effortless. They move and control kids in large groups with no visible work being done. They hold kids attention through long explanations without dancing like a monkey.
I work with science educators in my community trying to teach them how to teach kids to think instead of memorize. We are doing pretty well at expanding this method.
But I have yet to figure out the slightest thing about how to replicate a truly talented educator.
The education schools, unions, and administrations sure haven't figured it out.
Judging by performance metrics and observation, the vast majority of teachers are not good at their jobs.
Ah, yes, the midwit liturgy: I was too stupid to memorize anything in school, so all kids must be just as stupid as I am, and the best way to teach them is not to have them memorize facts, but just to try their best. And that's how you end up with "professional" engineers scoring fat government contracts because of their "minority owned" status building pedestrian bridges that collapse and kill innocent people.
Turns out memorizing a few physics equations is not a bad idea after all. You know, if you're not a fucking midwit.
Congratulations on what may be the dumbest response of all time.
Bonus... In physics you don't have to memorize the equations, you can derive them if you understand the physics.
"Teaching absolutely is an art in itself."
Teaching should be a minor to an ACTUAL degree. Education as a degree program is insulting to the concept of higher education. Clearly it is not that difficult given the lumpen mesomorphs who populate education schools in the USA presently.
"nowledge of the subject is insufficient to be an effective teacher."
Absolutely incorrect.
Knowing "how to teach" but not knowing what the fuck you're teaching --- an issue with many teachers now --- is insufficient to be effective.
A mathematician can be taught to teach easily and quickly. A teacher is not going to learn math, period.
"That the president of a college has such a low view of education as an art and profession ("anybody can do it") should be disturbing to any of the parents that pay for their young adult children to attend Hillsdale."
His opinion of them, honestly, is too high.
A mathematician can be taught to teach easily and quickly.
LOL. Have you ever had a bad math teacher?
Yes: the kind of math teacher who didn’t understand math very well.
There are also bad math teachers who understand math but who cannot explain it to students.
Took cytotoxic less than 1/4 of a page to go from: "TEACHERS ARE PROFESSIONALS! TREAT THEM AS SUCH! ALL TEACHERS ARE EXPERTS WHO SHOULD NEVER BE QUESTIONED!"
To:
"MATHEMATICIANS ARE NOT REALLY PROFESSIONALS BECAUSE I FAILED TO GROK BASIC ALGEBRA IN GRADE 6"
Turns out there actually *is* a class of teachers whose cocks cytotoxic won't reflexively shove down his gullet: the ones who teach kids numeracy instead of teaching them how to have gay sex with adult men and keep it a secret from their parents. It's almost as if cytotoxic is just a lousy piece of shit pedophile who wants to fuck little kids with impunity.
I guarantee you that almost anybody who is good at math (i.e. has completed a masters in it) can explain math to students adequately.
Students loved Feynman because he deeply understood the subject matter, had deep and novel insights into the subject matter because of his research, and because he could answer any question you threw at him. Feynman was never trained as an educator. And, of course, he usually lectured to a brilliant, self-selected, motivated audience.
What students first and foremost appreciate in teachers is competence and passion for the subject. Give them that, and they are willing to put in the work. This is also what students need to be prepared for in the real world, since most of the post-secondary education (at university or in industry) is not going to pamper the students.
An education major graduate with a shaky understanding of the subject matter, on the other hand, is going to have a hard time inspiring students.
The educational “potential” of each child is largely determined by the parents and the culture. A kid who values academic success and hard work will do well in school. Sometimes, teachers may be able to get through to a kid who has a high IQ but a bad family background, but that’s not an efficient use of teaching resources. Such kids may be helped with mentoring and counseling.
Finally, men and women are on the same pay scale in schools. The reason men are less and less represented in K-12 is because of misandry and sexist hiring practices. And the same process is happening in higher education, where 60% of students are now female and males (in particular, white males) are increasingly disadvantaged. Don’t blame men or misogyny for this problem, the problem is misandry. And our kids and our society is suffering because of it.
News flash, not every teacher is a Feynman and it is unrealistic to expect that every one will be.
What students first and foremost appreciate in teachers is competence and passion for the subject. Give them that, and they are willing to put in the work.
Oh give me a break. Yes competence and passion are important. But competence and passion in a subject matter field does not create creative lesson plans out of thin air. There is a difference between being knowledgeable in a subject, and being able to explain that subject well to others, particularly to young learners. You just completely ignore this and think "passion will just magically lead to lesson plans".
And utterly uneducated sacks of shit like you designing "lesson plans" around cartoon depictions of gay sex instead of actually imparting numeracy on students does not create numeracy in students.
WTF do you need a “creative lesson plan” for to teach K-12 students math? The subject is exceptionally mature and well understood. Students have textbooks and standard objectives for each school year and the teachers need to follow that.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And now we know why you're such a pathetic fucking retard filled with bitterness and rage. You washed out and couldn't get a job in physics because anything less than a PhD won't cut ice in that field, so you had to become a teacher because you have literally no other knowledge, skills or abilities. The classic midwit. Just bright enough realize how stupid you are, and miserably resentful of the people in your field who actually were intelligent enough to practice it. The actual embodiment of the adage that you impotently rage against: Those that cannot do, teach.
Anyone want to make book on how many students this midwit pedophile sack of shit raped in the bathroom over the last 18 years?
Isn't she another Reason favorite, like Molly Jong Fast?
https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1545766100016693249?t=o5PBTxj0P2bAzK5cJ40zpA&s=19
New @TheAtlantic || Since the mass movement is freed up, I argue, pro-lifers should champion a federal program that would make pregnancy, labor & delivery, and any/all postpartum care free. Not holding my breath, though.
[Link]
Who's going to tell her that the very same Medicaid that pays for half of all abortions in this country also pays for prenatal care, labor, delivery, and any/all postpartum care?
David French? Really?
But regardless of the writer, I think the libertarian take is that the government shouldn't be in the book lending business.
It's not a business, it's a community service.
Shooting you in the head in the middle of town square would also be a public service, but maybe the government shouldn't be doing that either.
This whole article is an exercise in missing the point.
The formula is "put provacative propaganda before younk kids in school, then paint anyone who complains as a Nazi".
Complaining that removing a book that features illustrations of men performing oral sex on boys from elementary schools is teaching kids that they don't have to confront ideas really is missing the main issue.
French says it is fine to remove books on the basiscof age appropriateness, so one wonders what he is arguing against, really.
Over the last 6 months or so we've learned that pretty much everybody in the pundit class, managerial class, and political class really, really, really, really, really, really, really desperately want to fuck little kids, and they are seething with rage that somebody had the audacity not just to notice, but to tell them no. They are not accustomed to "no", so they respond just like any other petulant child who is not accustomed to "no".
What French writes sounds good in the abstract, but leaves out some of the practical. A lot of the so-called bans were about age appropriateness, which French writes is an acceptable criteria for limiting access to a book for students. Others were about whether the books are presenting a worldview that the government schools should be teaching, like race essentialism. To my view, French is largely arguing against a strawman version of what the parent revolt on these matters has been about.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1546250789601034245?t=o7KdcFljxSJCe65fH_rYIg&s=19
If you didn't already know, Critical Race Theory (aka Race Marxism) is based on delusional fantasies like this piece of idiotic fiction by Derrick Bell.
Bell wrote lots of insane paranoid stories that are considered foundational in Critical Race Theory. He also pretended to have letter exchanges with real and fictional people. All of these fictions are meant to reveal the hidden "realities" of racism in post-1960s America.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/Rothmus/status/1546061804081668096?t=9AHkbQ6Xys2RvEpvA6EX5w&s=19
[Political cartoon]
Reason is really taking the Mises takeover of LP seriously. To stem the tide of any sort of populism, they make last stand alliances with nevertrump wing of the GOP.
So here we are, probably 1.5 years away from unending
"Why Desantis doesn't stand for freedom" articles and other exercises of ideological purity equivalency game, even as the left is so plainly bent on destroying the nation.
Did someone here object David French arguing in favor of red flag gun laws because the "constitution makes exceptions in emergencies"? I guess republicans who don't abide by libertarian dogma can be forgiven if they're never trump.
Cato and Reason have both tepidly supported red flag laws and other forms of gun control. It's amazing how malleable one's principles become when their sole benefactor takes up arms with George Soros. In a hilarious bit of irony, their alliance was intended to promote pacifism in foreign policy. With the exception, of course, of Syria and Ukraine
" the "constitution makes exceptions in emergencies"?"
Where again in the Constitution does it say that?
the Right limits the age that some books can be viewed while the Left won't even allow books to be published. seems like the left is far more egregious here
In the FL Panhandle (and probably the rest of the state), the charter schools have way too many scammers and grifters involved. Google Newpoint schools for an example. Its the worst here, but hardly the only scammer involved in charter schools. The regulations here are way too lax, and the charters are simply stealing tax money while providing an education that is subpar by any standards.
Luckily, Florida has a system to measure school performance using objective criteria.
It objectively works. Based on cohort-leveled measures, Florida is second in the nation in primary education. In value for dollar, they are first.
Bonus observation.... Because Florida has many ways to move schools within the public system and other ways to go outside the system. Parents can find the right fit for their kids. And what I have observed is that regardless of type of school, parental involvement is the primary driver in determining the success of the school. The correlation is so strong, it may be the only driver.
Yes don’t ban any books for minors great point. It’s an infringement in their 1st amendment rights.
Let them read Hustler, have access to open etc etc.
Good grief. They are children. It’s the adults job to limit what they are exposed to until they are age appropriate.
Why muddy the waters? Do you want books picturing blowjobs in your middle school's library or not?