America's Founders Raged Against Qualified Immunity, Trade Restrictions, and Anti-Immigrant Policies
Hey, we're still mad about those things today!

The Declaration of Independence is probably best known for the panache of its opening and closing stanzas. Those bits about "the course of human events" and the pledging of "our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor" suggest that the authors and signers understood the political and historical significance of the moment—and, after all, you can't have a revolution without a little linguistic dancing.
But the bulk of the document—it's just 1,330 words; take a moment to read it today—is dedicated not to grand statements about self-evident truths or sweeping philosophical claims.
Mostly, it's a laundry list of complaints about how the government really sucks.
That list of grievances belongs to a specific place and time, of course, but many of the problems that the Founders faced in 1776 were not all that different from what Americans deal with today. Armed agents of the state allowed to violate civilians' rights with impunity and with little accountability. Restrictions on trade that harm American businesses and consumers. Artificial limitations on immigration that do the same. And more.
The legal concept of "qualified immunity" didn't come into being until the U.S. Supreme Court invented it in 1982. But the idea that agents of the government might be held to a different standard of justice than everyone else would have been all too familiar to Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, and the rest.
After all, it's right there in the Declaration, which complains about King George III "protecting [British troops], by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States."
In context, that's likely a reference to an incident that occurred in Annapolis, Maryland, in 1768, in which two colonists were killed during an altercation with British marines. The marines were arrested, but their trial was held aboard the ship on which they were stationed, and they were—unsurprisingly, given those circumstances—acquitted.
That sounds awfully familiar. As Reason's Billy Binion has painstakingly detailed over the past several years, cops and other agents of the government are often let off the hook when they commit crimes even when the government admits they violated someone's rights. "Among the state actors recently protected by qualified immunity: two cops who tased a suicidal man they knew was covered in gasoline, causing him to burst into flames; a cop who led a bungled SWAT raid that saw an innocent 78-year-old's home damaged with flash-bang grenades; a cop who shot a 15-year-old on his way to school; a cop who shot a 10-year-old while aiming at a nonthreatening dog," Binion wrote last year. Sadly, that's far from a comprehensive list.
The Declaration also bemoans how the British government unfairly restricted the free movement of goods and people in the colonies. King George III is responsible for "cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world," it states.
Trade policies pursued by the last two presidential administrations haven't cut off Americans from global trade, but the consequences of higher tariffs and other protectionist policies are being felt nonetheless. The recent shortage of baby formula was in large part the fault of misguided federal trade policies. The high price of American housing, too, is the entirely predictable result of tariffs on lumber, steel, and lots of other products essential for construction. The Founders understood the value of supply-side economics—and that isolation from global trade was a recipe for problems, not economic resilience.
Elsewhere, the Declaration blasts King George for having "endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither."
In short: It was too complicated for people to legally come to America.
Same, bros. Restrictions on immigration and a hopelessly complex naturalization process have contributed to America's labor shortage, which is, in turn, feeding inflation. Worse, it has created a morally repugnant situation where would-be immigrants have to risk being cooked to death or drowning just to get here.
Again, the Founders understood something that today's political leaders seemingly don't: Immigrants are essential for a growing, economically successful society. That was every bit as true today as it was when the population of the United States was a mere 2.5 million.
I could go on and on. Another of the grievances (and a personal favorite): "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance." If that doesn't describe the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA), and the rest of the federal administrative state, I don't know what does.
But wait, there's more.
"For imposing taxes on us without our consent." Yep.
"For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us." In a manner of speaking, yes.
"He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us." Unbelievably, yes, that too.
To be sure, some of the grievances are more than a little dated. Thankfully, no American has to worry about being pressed into service in the British Navy anymore (though you could be forced to serve in the American one).
And the last one in the Declaration's list blames the British government for encouraging attacks by "the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions." And without even offering a land acknowledgment!
The parallels between those grievances aired in July 1776 and modern times might lead some to call more vigorously for a "national divorce," but that's not quite the point here. As the authors of the Declaration also understood, "governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes." Fixing what's wrong with your government is always preferable to open rebellion, war, and the destruction that it causes. And our system—intractable, flawed, broken, and hopeless as it often seems—is undeniably more fixable than a monarchy based in a faraway land.
The signers of the Declaration had to fight a war before they could get down to the project of government reform. Today, we can skip straight to that second part, and the answer is likely similar to what it was in the late 1700s: a constitutional system that tightly restricts government action and offers wide respect for individual rights.
The Founders had some pretty good ideas, it turns out.
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Given that the Revolution was an insurrection and the insurrections being lamented against in the DOI requires some history knowledge beyond regurgitating the DOI, I find it very impressive how people can reach such wildly different ideas about what is considered legitimate or not.
“Exciting insurrections,” historically, looks more like the summer riots than J6. And yet we are all twitterpated over Liz Cheney.
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Independence Day celebrates the hard won independence from the tyranny of Britain.
Yet WW1, WW2, the Middle East conflict and in countless other wars of aggression they are Americans “closest allies”.
What changed?
Fuck off, Nazi shit.
Beg, you whining, lying waste of skin.
He's not lying. You're literally a Jew hating Nazi sympathizer.
Demonstrating the innocence of the accused is due process, not sympathy.
Not you or anyone else ever has or ever will demonstrate any proof of your claim or refute what you deny.
I hate the evil actions that Jews have done and what they continue to do. I expose those actions with evidence that you can’t refute.
You’re guilty.
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Not you or anyone else ever has or ever will demonstrate any proof of your claim or refute what you deny.
Wait--you want proof that you're a jew-hating nazi piece of shit?
No problem--
I hate the evil actions that Jews have done and what they continue to do.
And, guy, just because you refuse to listen to the people refuting you doesn't mean that you haven't been refuted. It just means that you're refusing to listen.
You really are stupid.
Hating the behaviour isn’t hating the people.
Listen to what? Nobody has refuted what I’ve said or ever provided a cite linking to where anyone has. You certainly haven’t even though you’re a nobody.
Here it is, July 4…and someone here seems to think it’s still SPRINGTIME!!
The best you’ve got is Godwin’s law.
Hahaha
You’re a self proclaimed anti semite, Holocaust denying nazi. That isn’t hyperbole. It’s the literal truth of you.
You’re a lying waste of skin. Just like your Jewish religion teaches you to be.
That being said I hate all lying because it is the basis of all corruption. Corrupt Jewish behaviour is why they have been hated throughout history around the world.
When the world recognizes that the holocaust is a lie which Jews have benefited from, like wastes of skin faking cancer on go fund me websites, what do you think that will do for your reputations?
Recognizing these facts about Jewish behaviour doesn’t define national socialism. It defines rational recognition of irrefutable evidence.
You have never refuted anything that I’ve said, and because I don’t lie, you never will.
Unlike you Jews who are told to lie in your religion, do it all the time and are easily refuted.
All you fuckwits have, and you use it all the time, is Godwin’s law. Everyone who recognizes your corruption is a Nazi.
Do you even realize how transparent you are?
The ONLY reason that the whole world doesn’t already recognize that the holocaust is a lie is BECAUSE it is a crime to recognize the truth in every nation where it allegedly occurred. Where the physical proof exists.
As soon as objective forensic evidence isn’t illegal, EVERYONE will deny the holocaust.
Get fucked with a running, rusty chainsaw Nazi scum
Eat shit and die, Nazi asshole
It hasn’t killed you.
Godwin's Law is only a statement of the probability of Nazism coming up in a discussion. It doesn't forbid you to continue to show your ass to the Four Winds with no listeners.
So show your ass so Goldie can lick his lips and Fuck Off, Nazi!
“ It is generally accepted that whoever is the first to play the "Hitler card" has lost the argument as well as any trace of respect,”
Not that you ever earned any respect.
http://the-true-tropes.fandom.com/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
He's been too long in the Sun-Wheel. 😉
The Declaration of Independence expressed the Founders' sentiment regarding the British Empire:
We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.
You see, the Founders thought that, even when necessary to fight tyranny and injustice, war didn't have to be a permanent state of human existence. They didn't seek genocide of the British Empire, only to break free.
And the Founders didn't fight the British Empire over immutable traits (which, of course, many shared with the Citizens of Great Britain,) but because of the predations of the British Crown.
That's a stark contrast to you and your I'll, huh?
And the Founders were bankrolled in their efforts in part by the great Jewish financier Haim Solomon. Ain't that something?
Happy Independence Day and Fuck Off, Nazi!
What’s your point?
That Jews also bankrolled the war of 1812?
My point is that The American Revolution you praised was an endeavor supported by Jews, as was our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The Jews of Newport, Rhode Island praised George Washington for supporting a Constitution which gives " to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, but affords to all equal immunities of citizenship."
And the document they supported also recognizes your right to spout your bullshit, even though you and your ilk would never reciprocate this recognition with anyone else!
"Yankee Doodle came to town
A'ridin' on a pony!
He tipped his hat. the pony shat,
And then said: 'Fuck Off, Nazi!"
Yeah Satan worshiping lying Freemason Jews had lots at stake, like the central bank.
Alexander Hamilton was born Alexander Levine.
http://www.businessinsider.com/rothschild-family-war-of-1812-conspiracy-2013-1#conspiracy-theorists-insist-hamilton-was-a-rothschild-agent-2
“The Rothschilds would go on to perfect the strategy of lending to countries on each side of a conflict over the following century of chronic warfare.“
Demonstrating that their priority secret interest wasn’t who won the war but that they would control everyone with debt.
Qualified immunity for Lying Lothario means that as soon as Lying Lothario has lied his way to fartilizing that human egg smell... His genetic legacy is GUARANTEED yet AGAIN (for lack of lied-to babe having abortion "veto power" against his lies, of course), and Lying Lothario gets to keep on humping-and-dumping on his OTHER "one and only" 72 babes!!! Yea for Lying Lothario and his genetic legacy! Now how about for the rest of us, and for a sane and civilized society?
http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc107315509 ... also... For documentation of the above ("victories" of scum-bucket men), see below...
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/02/health/abortion-myths-mental-health-wellness/index.html
Myths about abortion and women's mental health are widespread, experts say
from above…
Women denied an abortion who carried their babies to term were "much more likely to experience physical health issues at the time of childbirth, as childbirth is much more risky than having an abortion," Biggs said. Two of the women in the study died during childbirth.
A 2012 study found the risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than the risk from abortion.
After five years, the study found women denied an abortion were more likely to "live in poverty and much more likely to suffer economic hardship, including more bankruptcies, debt and challenges meeting basic living needs," Biggs said.
Women who were turned away were also more likely to be tethered to a violent and abusive partner, and to have chronic health conditions, Biggs said. "They also lowered their aspirations (for the future), and they were less likely to achieve them," she added.
"much more likely to experience physical health issues at the time of childbirth, as childbirth is much more risky than having an abortion"
Aside from the fact that it's a demonic viewpoint, "kill your baby for health benefits", it's simply is not true.
Almost 170 million years of placental evolution mean that the body is well suited to handle pregnancy.
You've got a serial killers mentality.
Almost 170 million years of evolution mean that the body dies eventually! Deal with it!
"Aside from the fact that it's a demonic viewpoint, "kill your baby for health benefits", it's simply is not true."
Liar!
A 2012 study found the risk of death associated with childbirth is approximately 14 times higher than the risk from abortion. translates to: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/
The comparative safety of legal induced abortion and childbirth in the United States
Then there is ALSO the societal cost of letting Lying Lothario breed half of our babies!!! Harem fighting-and-lying sperm-donor beasts for the win; good fathers for the loss!
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More intelligent and on point than the spastic asshole.
Two Planned Parenthood directors create a paper demonstrating that their abattoirs are "healthier" than maternity wards, but Shillsy says it's legit and totally not in conflict.
Here's where your very own link says the study's lead author works, Shillsy: https://gynuity.org/programs/medical-abortion
Here's her co-author's bio: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/12381464.David_A_Grimes
"An internationally recognized abortion scholar, he served as Chief of the Abortion Surveillance Branch... In Every Third Woman in America, he chronicles the public health story of legal abortion in America as well as the harms women now face at the mercy of state and federal restrictions. He shares the stories of his patients over 40 years of practice and how safe, legal abortion helped them and their families."
Two hardcore abortionists say abortion is great for your health based on their own work. Not exactly the normal double-blind clinical trial standard. No enormous conflicts of interest there right, Sqrlsy?
Next up you can post a study by Captain Morgan and Jim Bean on how booze is healthy for your liver, or a study by NAMBLA about how getting assfucked is healthy for little boys bums.
You're so dishonest, you death loving fuck.
Whatever the OTHER tribe says MUST be false, right, right-wing wrong-nut?
Does this now mean that You (Oh Perfect One) will recommend that we should all buy Hunter Biden art?
Hunter Biden art does concern me, to be clear about it. However, this is an opportune time to call attention to the hyper-partisans, who will “refute” what you say, by pointing out that your source is “from the wrong tribe”!
Leftist media bias by Vox is a fib sometimes! Hunter Biden art…
https://www.vox.com/2021/8/3/22601671/hunter-biden-art-sales-walter-shaub “Why Obama’s former ethics czar is highly critical of Hunter Biden’s lucrative art sales … There have been many bad-faith “scandals” linked to the president’s son. Walter Shaub thinks this one should be taken seriously.
I wonder if the Trumpaloos will now show up to say that Vox is liberally biased, and can't be trusted? This here “Vox” article MUST mean that Hunter Biden is a GREAT artist, and there are NO opportunities for corruption, here!
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vox-news-media-bias
“VOX” rated as far-left as is allowed… The needle is pegged!
PROOF, then, that Hunter Biden art is of NO concern to stalwart conservatives and Trumpaloos! (Since Vox always lies, of course).
Mammary-Fuhrer is a drooling idiot! (Unless She will now sucks Hunter Biden dick as enthusiastically as She sucks Trump dick.)
It's blatant conflict of interest of the worst sort, you retarded fuck. Not only that but there was no clinical trial and everything was based on the author's suppositions.
And if you are don't have a problem with that, then you're the tribalist here.
He's actually quoting from Vox, and the other day I saw him quoting Salon. This guy's a hardcore Democrat.
So tribalistic idiot loves Hunter Biden art then? Did tribalistic idiot read what I posted above?
Whatever the OTHER tribe says MUST be false, right, right-wing wrong-nut?
Does this now mean that You (Oh Perfect One) will recommend that we should all buy Hunter Biden art?
Hunter Biden art does concern me, to be clear about it. However, this is an opportune time to call attention to the hyper-partisans, who will “refute” what you say, by pointing out that your source is “from the wrong tribe”!
Leftist media bias by Vox is a fib sometimes! Hunter Biden art…
https://www.vox.com/2021/8/3/22601671/hunter-biden-art-sales-walter-shaub “Why Obama’s former ethics czar is highly critical of Hunter Biden’s lucrative art sales … There have been many bad-faith “scandals” linked to the president’s son. Walter Shaub thinks this one should be taken seriously.
I wonder if the Trumpaloos will now show up to say that Vox is liberally biased, and can't be trusted? This here “Vox” article MUST mean that Hunter Biden is a GREAT artist, and there are NO opportunities for corruption, here!
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vox-news-media-bias
“VOX” rated as far-left as is allowed… The needle is pegged!
PROOF, then, that Hunter Biden art is of NO concern to stalwart conservatives and Trumpaloos! (Since Vox always lies, of course).
If Vox wrote an indictment of Hunter's involvement in Burisma, fucking his underage niece, or the emails setting up pay for play for his Dad, you'd have a point. But tut-tutting and focusing on easily the most minor thing he's done, while ignoring the corruption and bribery, demonstrates that it's an awkward cover up attempt.
If you weren't a Democratic Party shill you'd be embarrassed to post that.
If you weren't a TOTALLY self-righteous Bitch, you would understand my MAIN point here, which is that You (like ALL of the ignorant self-righteous twats around here) use "this info is from the wrong tribe" as a total refutation of what is said... EXCEPT if you AGREE with what they say!!!
TOTAL logic fail; TOTAL tribalistic EMOTION!!! Self-righteous twat!
“I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.” Quote Adolf Hitler, https://byrslf.co/50-quotes-by-adolf-hitler-that-will-inspire-you-to-achieve-your-goals-in-life-62b43c5c9f2c
(Reserving reason for the few? Few = ZERO for Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, who has ZERO faculties for reason!)
Your main point is a moronic lie, that's why you stupid fuck.
I you can't understand the difference between pointing out an enormous and glaring conflict of interest, and tribalism, you might be too stupid to breathe.
Quoth the hardcore Trumpanzee...
Wow! With super clever words like that, you win!
Trumpanzee
Sockpuppets only work if you abandon all your regular tics, sarcasmic.
Nope, that one is Hank.
No "clinical trial"! Ha! HOW does one ethically do a double-blind scientific study on abortion, you stupid twat? Or for that matter, on the efficacy of sneeze guards at the salad bar? Do YOU want to be in such a study, using real disease germs?
At the end of the day, MANY MANY ISSUES regarding real humans in the real world, can only be tackled using DATA-DRIVEN analysis! NOT true "science" in terms of "double-blind studies"!
At the end of the day, You (Perfect One) will believe WHATEVER Your Perfect Self-Righteous beliefs dictate to You... And the hell with ALL the other data!
" HOW does one ethically do a double-blind scientific study on abortion, you stupid twat?"
You can't, which is why their suppositions are junk, retard.
"Or for that matter, on the efficacy of sneeze guards at the salad bar? Do YOU want to be in such a study, using real disease germs?"
Are you for real? Did you actually think germ studies don't use germs? Spraying microbes at petri dishes behind a sneeze guard isn't going to get stuck at the ethics board.
Every time I think that you can't possibly get the any dumber, you exceed expectations.
Citation please on a double-blind study of sneeze guards using real humans and real disease germs PLEASE, liar?
They are not "suppositions" pulled out of their asses, twat! They are the results of BUNCHES of interviews of people who had or did not have abortions!!!
YOU are the one using unsupported "suppositions", such as, fartilized human egg smells have rights, but fartilized ape egg smells don't, and neither do UN fartilized human cells! TOTALLY just pulled willy-nilly out of Your Perfectly Bossy Ass!!
"They are the results of BUNCHES of interviews of people who had or did not have abortions!!!"
What the fuck does an "interview" have to do with medical data? Abortionists "interviewing" their own clients for satisfaction is a retarded joke.
You're also a joke.
Mammary Necrophilia Fuhrer and Rob Misek are two peas in a pod... If you present them with the results of thousands of personal interviews with Holocaust survivors, they will both say, "This is partisan so-called 'data' gathered by partisans, it isn't double-blind scientifically gathered experimental data, and, most of all, I DON'T LIKE IT, so it is totally useless!"
https://www.ansirh.org/research/ongoing/turnaway-study
ANSIRH has published more than fifty scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals using data from the Turnaway Study. Our annotated bibliography provides a complete list of publications. Issue briefs on the mental health and socioeconomic consequences of having an abortion versus carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term ...
SQRLSY back at ya now... ALL of science MUST be disregarded as "partisan" if it does NOT conform to the emotions of Mammary-Fuhrer!!! "Peer-reviewed" means NOTHING if Mammary-Fuhrer doesn't agree with the conclusions!
"ANSIRH has published more than fifty scientific papers"
Imagine that. The abortionists at Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health are keen on abortion and are publishing "studies" that approve of their own work. How ethical.
NAMBLA has published far more than fifty studies on how having sex with kids is good to for them.
The American Sugar Association has funded hundreds of studies demonstrating that sweeteners are dangerous and sugar is healthier than claimed in the press.
Both are about as valid as your abortionist studies.
ALL of science MUST be disregarded as "partisan" if it does NOT conform to the emotions of Mammary-Fuhrer!!! "Peer-reviewed" means NOTHING if Mammary-Fuhrer doesn't agree with the conclusions!
Still true! In spades!
All of the ladies interviewed about their lives, results, happiness, feelings of regret or not? They are NOT valid if they DARE to disagree with Mammary-Fuhrer!
"ALL of science MUST be disregarded"
It's not "SCIENCE", you creepy partisan clownshow. And educate yourself about your peer-review claim here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffreykabat/2015/11/23/the-crisis-of-peer-review/?sh=1512b5f2463e
Their conduct is the antithesis of the scientific method. Antiscience in a way.
"All of the ladies interviewed about their lives, results, happiness, feelings of regret or not?"
And I don't give a shit if those callous bitches are happy they killed their children. In fact I wish them all the pain they gave their child.
What evidence do you have that a single cell, or a clump of 2-4-8-or-16 cells, can feel pain? And why does it only matter if they are HUMAN cells?
And even with all that forced breeding, women live years longer than men. I demand life span equity.
There were 8.8 deaths per 100,000 child births. A woman of color probably has a higher chance of getting shot to death in Chicago if she took regular midnight walks.
Meanwhile, the mortality of the rate of abortion is 100% for the fetus. Combine that with occasional death of the mother, and I'd say it way more deadlier than live birth.
More importantly though, what's the point in comparing an elective surgery to a biological event? Abortions can occur at many times at pregnancy, while livebirth involves a human being exiting the mother. Apples and Oranges.
My odds of dying at a lisposuction table is lower than me dying from cholestrol. So what? If I never owned a gun, the odds of me getting shot by accident in my home would be shrunk from 1% to 0%. Korea has WAY fewer murders by illegal immigrants than we do. Takeaway - ban 2A and immigration?
Abortion makes much as sense as suicide in terms of biological imperative. It's a species willingly choosing extinction, and virtually no other animals do this. I would be thrilled if AOC aborted all her kids, but there's always a chance that one of her grandsons would redeem the family name and stand against whatever disaster her idiotic policy unleashed on the nation. Not THAT'S reproductive justice.
Yeah it's complete bullshit. Open border globalists like reason lable border security "artificial limits on immigration". What is "artificial"?
Our immigration policies have nothing to do with inflation either.
Did you guys know that one of the largest causes of death from men is heart disease, brought on by high stress of raising a family? On the other hand, shooting their kids in the face is much less likely to result in death to the father.
Shillsy's big on the Columbine High School health plan. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold obtained some serious stress relief using its methods.
Not to the kid it's not.
Do you call an acorn an oak tree? No difference at ALL?!?
If it's sprouted, yes.
You're so incredibly retarded Shillsy. Did you even make it out of fifth grade?
You "punishment clitoris" is showing, You Perfectly Shameless Slut!
If you steal an acorn from my property, it is theft, but (Usually) Government Almighty has the good judgment to not prosecute. It would be a waste of time and resources, over something utterly trivial.
If you steal a mature oak tree from my property, and saw it up for your lumber, that can be worth thousands of dollars; even tens of thousands, for a really large, mature tree. Government Almighty WILL prosecute for this, and rightly so. It's called "good judgment", even though both cases are clearly theft.
This is a clear and fair analogy to "murdering" a zygote v/s an already-born human.
None of that gibberish was relevant to the fact that a fetus is as human as its mother.
human being, a culture-bearing primate classified in the genus Homo, especially the species H. sapiens. Human beings are anatomically similar and related to the great apes but are distinguished by a more highly developed brain and a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/human-being
How does ANY of the above definition (as used by NON-fanatical humans) apply to a fartilized egg smell? Pray tell?
Oh, and, is an UNfartilized egg smell sitting in fairly close proximity to a man's testes full of sperm ALSO a "human", due to proximity and quantum-mechanical non-locality? If not, why not?
How does ANY of the above definition (as used by NON-fanatical humans) apply to a fartilized egg smell? Pray tell?
The human brain begins development in an embryo in the third week. Synapses start firing almost immediately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain#Development
If you're conditioning humanity to only those with a brain, does that mean you think abortion should be illegal after the second week?
Did you flunk out of junior high? It's like you don't even if understand the words you're using.
You fuckers are WAAAAY too stupid to use data-driven arguments or facts! Even grade-school kids can fling poo just like you!
Read this if you have any brains... http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc107315509
Posting articles written by the abortionists and Planned Parenthood directors isn't a data-driven argument. It's pretty much the opposite.
If I start posting articles written by pro-lifers would you think they were valid?
If you weren't so stupid you'd realize your mistake.
OK, supposedly data-driven Wonder Child...
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?). Also, the unwillingness to answer questions is strongly indicative of authoritarianism. At the root here is the unmistakable attitude of “Because I said so, peons! Do NOT question your Rulers!”
"about what the PUNISHMENTS should be!"
Exactly the same as if she kills her kid when he's two, twelve or twenty-two, you ghoulish fuck.
I've told you this dozens of times but you're too stupid and lazy to change your copy-paste responses.
And where is the "science" to back you up? And you didn't even say WHAT that punishment should be! Would your revenge lust be sated by a fine of $1.53? Mine would be!
Das Craprital Bugger has not seen Jon's Constitutional analysis of the LEGAL context of birth control: See constitutionalism.blogspot.com and use the search feature.
wft, "artificial limitations on immigration"? there's no such thing. our country, like all others, is under no obligation to allow any immigration. today we have a completely open southern border caused by a president who thinks borders don't exist. apparently boehm thinks the same thing. what we need to do is seal the southern border completely and not allow any immigration until there is an actual secure border. the goal must be zero illegal immigration. legal immigration must be controlled by means of strict means testing for all applicants. only allow those in who can actually contribute to the country.
Completely open southern border? That's crazy talk and it discounts to zero any other point you might be making.
apparently you're not keeping up with current events or the millions who have poured across the border since brandon took office. so yes it's completely open. why do you think the caravans keep coming? not because we have a secure border.
People who understand what "completely" means stopped reading after your first post.
so you're an open border leftist, got it.
No, you're an ignoramus.
do you approve of the state of or southern border or do you condemn it?
You mean the caravans that only seem to materialize around election time?
Um, no. They've been happening quite often. I take it news isn't your thing unless it's around election time?
And are you really ascribing a conspiracy theory to immigrant caravans? Cause that's just sad.
It's all he's got.
News is only his thing if it helps democrats.
And are you really ascribing a conspiracy theory to immigrant caravans?
No, I'm well aware that migrants come and go all the time. It's just that this migration turns into MIGRANT CARAVAN INVASIONS THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR JERBS AND YOUR WIMMIN when it's time to scare people into voting for Team Red.
That's what happened to Jo's campaign after the pony porn anarchists demanded and got uninspected entry of terrorists in the LP platform. That's STILL THERE. The Anschluss Caucus Nazis only delete planks that reflect original LP values and attract voters.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
No means testing mentioned. I know several people personally who arrived in America with nothing, and are now more successful than many people who were born here with every advantage.
Hopefully we will still be celebrating Independence Day for many years to come (even if it makes NPR feel uncomfortable), with "bonfires and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other..." as John Adams hoped.
Didn't a socialist write that poem?
The Reason writers are morons.
Boehm leads the pack.
I think if you read more closely, you see that the founders were deeply skeptical of a dude in Britain visiting these injustices upon the populace without any recourse from the people.
And for all intents and purposes of our current nation, that is good enough for me. Washington DC ruling me from 2500 miles away isn't terribly different from London ruling New York from 3400 miles away. It is noteworthy that a lot of these founders went home to their states and enacted laws that Boehm would find rather draconian today- including restrictions on morality, and strong state powers. But at the least these were local powers, not the passing whims of career politocrats on Olympus.
Eat shit, open borders simps
Keep enjoying the "border patrol" enforcing federal policy 100 miles away from the border to "control the border". Which is obviously effective. So how much more money should be taken from the citizens of the US to "control" the border? Since I've never seen a voluntary suggestion in these comments on how to buy all the land and build a community of border defenders, apparently it has to happen through government action, and apparently only federal.
What's your address, soy?
"So how much more money should be taken from the citizens of the US to "control" the border?"
Exponentially less than you faggots spend on importing new dependents and laundering through Ukraine.
How much money should be taken from legal citizens to pay for a bloated immigration system that FAILS to stem the increasing flow of illegal aliens crossing the border. Not to mention taxes to help these illegal aliens.
Truth be told it would be cheaper if ICE could put tats on the forehead of any illegal alien they caught saying "EAT SHIT AND DIE" and put them in a chopper and drop them off 100 miles South of the border; not to mention a couple of weeks the number of illegal aliens trying to cross the border would drop and any illegal aliens caught with a tat would be subject to harsher punishment.
As an aside I am all for completely closing the border as in no one crosses the border and that includes trucks from Mexico carrying trade goods. Again a couple of weeks of that and Mexico would start cracking down on illegal aliens trying to cross the border illegally.
Point is there are lots of things that could easily and cheaply stem the flood of illegal aliens crossing the border; but no administration has had the balls to implement them.
As an aside I am all for completely closing the border as in no one crosses the border
How would you possibly enforce such a thing?
Land mines.
As usual a turdy mcturd face like Jeff distorts a quotation by taking it out of context. The entire sentence (hope that is not such a high level English term you don't understand what it means) is as follows:
"As an aside I am all for completely closing the border as in no one crosses the border and that includes trucks from Mexico carrying trade goods."
As soon as the shit eating Mexican economy started taking hits both the government and the cartels would put a quick end to illegal aliens not just crossing the border but those from other shit eating countries even entering Mexico.
Eat shit and die Jeff.
I fear that Jeffy is still many, many scores of ham sandwiches away from his corpulent end.
I see. So you want to create an economic depression in the Mexican economy, as well as cause even more severe supply chain disruptions in the US economy (there's a *lot* of trade between the US and Mexico), in order to stop illegal immigration.
Here's what will happen:
- it would cause enormous pain in the Mexican economy, impoverishing a lot of people who have nothing to do with migration at all
- it would cause a lot of pain in the US economy as well, impoverishing a lot of people who have nothing to do with migration at all
- since there is no way to completely 100% seal the entire border, the migrants would still find a way in
So you'd create a lot of misery and not actually solve the problem. Sure sounds like how COVID lockdowns worked.
None. The amount of money the US spends on immigration enforcement is more than sufficient to remove almost all illegals from the country.
Of course, some border protection is useful. We need that just to keep drugs out.
But the bulk of the enforcement should be directed at making it impossible for illegals to actually live in the US. It is already against the law for people to aid illegals in staying in the country. Enforce that against every business, landlord, bank, insurance company, school, etc. and you take away any motivation for people to enter the country illegally.
SCOTUS also needs to overturn jus soli, which has no basis in the Constitution.
It is already against the law for people to aid illegals in staying in the country. Enforce that against every business, landlord, bank, insurance company, school, etc. and you take away any motivation for people to enter the country illegally.
So how would this work in practice? Because what I'm visualizing is citizens having to get government permission for every economic transaction.
Not at all. It just means enforcing the law against those businesses that already know your legal residency status based on checks they already perform. So, if they check your RealID, get a credit report, or get a criminal background check, they know your legal residency status.
Enforcement would be a combination of incidental detection plus sting operations. Incidental detections means that if an illegal alien is caught, an investigation is started into the employer, landlord, banks, and other businesses to see whether they checked the RealID or got a credit report or criminal background check.
For US citizens and legal residents, nothing changes; there is no new data collection by the government; no new regulations of businesses.
You originally wrote:
It is already against the law for people to aid illegals in staying in the country. Enforce that against every business, landlord, bank, insurance company, school, etc.
Well, right now it is perfectly legal for anyone to go to, say, a grocery store, buy food, pay cash, and not show anyone any ID. But what if that person is an illegal? Then according to you, if the store doesn't check ID, the store is "aid[ing] illegals in staying in the country", no? So would every grocery store have to check the ID of every customer? Now extend this to every economic transaction.
As I was saying: IF they check your RealID, get a credit report, or get a criminal background check, they know your legal residency status.
The answer to your question is therefore NO, they would NOT have to check the ID of every customer.
Clear enough?
So let's get this straight. Under your plan, every time someone buys alcohol or cigarettes (and has to show ID), every time someone applies for a credit card or a loan (and gets a credit check), every time someone buys a gun (and gets a criminal background check), you want the government notified and given all of this data, so that they can determine if the person is an illegal immigrant or not.
Do you not understand how you are transferring a huge amount of data to the government?
No, you aren't getting it straight at all.
Not at all. I'm saying that IF a business learns during the way it already operates that someone is in the country illegally, THEN the business must refuse to do business with that person. That's all.
Enforcement is against the business, not against the person illegally in the country. Enforcement is against the business, not against the person illegally in the country. Nobody notifies the government. Nobody collects any data they don't already have.
Enforcement is against the business, not against the person illegally in the country.
And under your plan, how does a business prove to the government that it is complying with your law, without divulging all of that data that it has collected about all of its customers?
The business doesn't have to prove anything, the government has to prove that the business is guilty. And data that the business collected is irrelevant, since it would presumably be falsified anyway.
Rather, when an illegal alien is identified by police (say during a traffic stop), police can then go after the landlord, banks, car companies, money transfer company, and other businesses that the illegal alien transacted with. It's still the government's obligation to prove that the business knew they transacted with an illegal alien, but that's usually pretty easy. A sting operation is, of course, another way of identifying businesses that cater to illegals.
No gigantic dragnet for illegals is needed. The objective isn't to catch and deport every illegal, the objective is to make it too costly and risky for certain important kinds of businesses to work with illegal aliens and thereby remove the incentive for illegal aliens to remain here. Since businesses have thousands of customers, you only need to catch a few of their illegal customers to convict them and put a stop to that.
This isn't "my law", it is essentially already law, although it could probably be strengthened.
Rather, when an illegal alien is identified by police (say during a traffic stop), police can then go after the landlord, banks, car companies, money transfer company, and other businesses that the illegal alien transacted with.
So how is the government supposed to know which businesses this illegal alien transacted with? You keep ignoring this part. Hint: The government has to know somehow that any particular person is transacting with any particular business. This means that SOMEONE has to keep these records, and that these records have to be handed over to the government at SOME point. You are pretending that there is some way for the government to know these things without mass data collection.
It's still the government's obligation to prove that the business knew they transacted with an illegal alien, but that's usually pretty easy.
Is it? That is why I asked about the grocery store. So, let's pretend that somehow the government knows that a particular illegal immigrant is renting a particular apartment (but no mass data collection, oh no no no). So, the ICE agents go to the landlord, and the landlord says "oh, well I never checked his papers, he paid in cash every month, he was a great tenant". Is the landlord guilty of "aid[ing] illegals in staying in the country"? The landlord didn't know he was an illegal immigrant because he didn't ask, and he wasn't required to ask. But you insist that your new proposal wouldn't mean mandating any more businesses be required to 'check papers', only the existing ones. So how do you expect to catch all of these illegal immigrants then?
So if your law isn't going to be this intrusive violation of privacy for everyone, then I suppose it is just a toothless law that will be operationally impossible to enforce.
I have answered this MULTIPLE TIMES: from illegal aliens and from sting operations.
If the landlord is willing to rent without checking ID, without a background check, and without a credit check, then, no, he is not guilty. Of course, almost no landlord is willing to do that. And in most cases that's easy to verify.
Furthermore, the illegal alien also needs water, gas, electricity, mail delivery, Internet, cellphone service, etc. And many of those companies do require ID and credit checks. Those big companies would certainly comply with the law.
As I was saying: I don't expect "catching all of these illegal aliens" at all, it only takes a tiny number to seriously hurt the businesses that work with them.
I expect essential businesses to not provide services to illegal aliens anymore because the costs and risks are too high. Without easily getting a legitimate job, banking, electricity, driving a car, etc., there is little incentive for illegal aliens to come to, or stay in, the US.
Incidentally, even if we passed a law that required certain businesses to check legal residency, I fail to see what privacy concerns you think that raises.
Businesses wouldn't be required to send that data to any central government agency, and doing so would be pointless. If they are charged with violation of immigration law in a specific case, then they have the option of providing evidence that they checked the RealID as a defense. Doing so provides no new information to the government, since the government issued both the RealID and/or any residency permit, and since the government already knows that the alien in question rented with that landlord, since they are investigating that landlord.
And just also to be clear. If a person buys food in cash from a grocery store, and the store clerk does not check ID, and that person later turns out to be an illegal immigrant, you would not hold that store, nor that employee, responsible for "aiding illegals to stay in the country". Is that correct?
That's correct. Enforcement is against businesses that knowingly do business with illegal aliens.
Strict enforcement of that rule is sufficient to make it pretty much impossible for illegal aliens to live in the US.
"So how would this work in practice? Because what I'm visualizing is citizens having to get government permission for every economic transaction."
Simple solution; pass a law that anyone (citizen or not) who turns in anyone aiding an illegal alien is awarded $US100 for the first offense of the employer, store owner, whoever, $US, 1,000 for the second offense, $US10,000 for the third offense, and $US100,000 for the forth offense; with fines to the offender twice that of the award.
Is there a bonus for Jyooz, gnosse?
Congratulations, you've just re-created the Stasi.
You leftists beat everyone to it
That's not necessary. Most illegals sooner or later have contact with police, if not for any other reason than because they are driving. They can then start investigating their landlord, electric company, etc. Sting operations are also an easy way of catching businesses.
Isn’t Jeffy Canadian? I’ll bet he’s an illegal. Would love to see him deported and unable to ever return? And if he really is voting in US elections, then he belongs in prison.
THAT is a good observation and a valid point. For many years I worked the border, then had to stop for illiterate goons with drug dogs (the hell with explosives, dead bodies, CBW...) Favoring exclusion of dangerous hostile invaders in no way implies Berlin-style checkpoint Charlies 50 miles inland and worse and more violent looters than potential foreign enemies.
Happy 4th of July! On this day I’d like to give thanks to the Libertarian/GOP movement and it’s support of Border Patrol agents, wars in the a Middle East and religious edicts from our new brothers-in-arms— namely, GOP church ladies and faith healers on the Trinity Broadcasting Network. Hallelujah and God Bless my Black (and gay) ass.
Well you've gone back to that thing you did under your "American Socia1ist" character where you promote billionaire Charles Koch's open borders agenda (and effectively say socialist Bernie Sanders is wrong). So that's a start.
But I'd rather see you go all the way back to that character. Stop pretending to be a gay Black man. Remind us you're a wealthy straight white cisman who loves California because of its $1,000-per-plate restaurants. Brag about how the #BidenBoom made you 30% richer in just one year. Update us on how your portfolio is doing in 2022.
#BringBackAmSoc
He’s laying low so the mortgage company doesn’t come after him for their money.
https://twitter.com/ScotsFyre/status/1543990252922191874?t=kiwQ45TjqzxPxhIcUQaigQ&s=19
20 million Americans lost their jobs because of the lockdowns your chief medical advisor pushed largely in Democrat run states. You kept the idiot who called for them & praised the Democrats who enforced them you addled fabulist.
Biden said “anyone that is responsible for 220000 deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America.”
Since Biden took office, we have had more than 700000 new deaths, despite Biden starting out with three vaccines.
https://twitter.com/itsSpencerBrown/status/1543986645543911424?t=xUEAuk7QHfV6AlHPD-UM6A&s=19
On July 4, 1988, NPR broadcast a reading of the Declaration of Independence, starting an annual tradition that ran for 33 years until today — when the taxpayer-funded outlet canceled the reading and aired a biased discussion on “equality” in its place.
[Link]
National Treason Radio.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1543985807882522624?t=aJ8edBdP53AZwf2fgBUdig&s=19
Overnight on July 3, violent far-left & #BLM rioters gathered in downtown Akron, Ohio with bats & started fires. They're angry about the police shooting death of #JaylandWalker, an armed black man who led police on a wild car chase & shooting at them.
A masked man with a bat in Akron, Ohio used a bat to smash out windows during the violent far-left direct action overnight. The rioters were trying to attack the Justice Center. #JaylandWalker
#BLM & left-wing rioters started fires at their violent unlawful assembly overnight in downtown Akron, Ohio. They're angry about police shooting dead a man who was fleeing from police in a vehicle & shooting at cops. #JaylandWalker
[Videos]
They gunned down another innocent little lamb?
In context, that's likely a reference to an incident that occurred in Annapolis, Maryland, in 1768, in which two colonists were killed during an altercation with British marines. The marines were arrested, but their trial was held aboard the ship on which they were stationed, and they were—unsurprisingly, given those circumstances—acquitted.
That's because the British weren't going in for that 'tough on crime' BS.
Same, bros. Restrictions on immigration and a hopelessly complex naturalization process have contributed to America's labor shortage,
How many bases got stolen in this statement? Are there nine bases in baseball? I can't remember.
First of all, they didn't "rage against" the policies, they "raged against" the imposition of those policies by a monarch, without the consent of the governed.
Now, that is really all one needs to say about this b.s. article. But even if they had opposed policies rather than their unjust imposition, even the policies aren't what Boehm misrepresents them to be. For example...
For trade, they "raged against" "cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world", not against tariffs, which they used as a primary means for financing the federal government.
As for immigration, they "raged against" "obstructing the Laws of Naturalization of Foreigners", not against having such laws. It is the open borders advocates, the people who support unrestricted migration, the people who oppose deporting those who entered illegally, who are "obstructing the laws of naturalization".
Man, I hate illegal immigrants.
Even more I hate democrats like Jeffy that use government to enable them.
America doesn't have a "labor shortage". America has an addiction to cheap, unproductive, low-skilled labor. The kind of nations that operate that way are third world nations and slave nations. The consequence of increasing the amount of cheap, unproductive, low-skilled labor is to make a country bigger and poorer, but to make a small elite richer. You know, like the old South. You know, like Democrats favor.
What America needs is skilled immigration. We could easily get millions of skilled, legal immigrants each year, a boon to the US economy, wealth, and minorities. But we can't do that because people like Boehm and the Democrats have successfully advocated flooding the country with illegal third world peasants, clogging up the immigration pipeline, out-competing poor Americans for jobs, and draining government resources.
The enemy of skilled, beneficial immigration policies is people like you, Boehm.
America is also addicted to creating citizens with few marketable skills, especially among the elite class (and their affirmative action pets). Yes, more skilled immigrants that can boost our enterprise performance. And also more skilled natives for the same goal.
And much, much fewer unskilled but highly educated natives who at best do nothing, and more often actually impede success.
Businesses would actually hire those people and train them if businesses couldn't get cheap (illegal) immigrant labor instead.
(A few years of fruit picking in the fields should be a highly desirable goal for any social science graduate trained in Marxist ideology anyway.)
I don't know. How much whining and posturing would we have to put up with, along with real or fake heat stroke, before we just said fuck it?
Unlike the government, corporations are quite good at manipulating teens and twenty-somethings.
Don't get too hot under the collar. This is the first time that Reason has acknowledged that the laws of supply and demand ALSO apply to labor. Baby steps here.
Happy Independence Day to all! Celebrating the day 246 years ago when the Founding Fathers upheld The Rights of Man, set into motion a Revolution that’s continuing to this day worldwide, and defied every one of these so-called “holy” scriptures:
When thou art come unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee. Deuteronomy 17:14-15a
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Romans 13:1-2
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates. Titus 3:1
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Hebrews 13:17
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 2 Peter 2:13-14
Three Cheers for our Deist, Freethinking, Infidel Founding Fathers!
Good job Encogitationer!
However, you did forget the below:
God COMMANDS us to kill EVERYONE!
Our that them thar VALUES of society outta come from that them thar HOLY BIBLE, and if ya read it right, it actually says that God wants us to KILL EVERYBODY!!! Follow me through now: No one is righteous, NONE (Romans 3:10). Therefore, ALL must have done at least one thing bad, since they’d be righteous, had they never done anything bad. Well, maybe they haven’t actually DONE evil, maybe they THOUGHT something bad (Matt. 5:28, thoughts can be sins). In any case, they must’ve broken SOME commandment, in thinking or acting, or else they'd be righteous. James 2:10 tells us that if we've broken ANY commandment, we broke them ALL. Now we can’t weasel out of this by saying that the New Testament has replaced the Old Testament, because Christ said that he’s come to fulfill the old law, not to destroy it (Matt. 5:17). So we MUST conclude that all are guilty of everything. And the Old Testament lists many capital offenses! There’s working on Sunday. There’s also making sacrifices to, or worshipping, the wrong God (Exodus 22:20, Deut. 17:2-5), or even showing contempt for the Lord’s priests or judges (Deut. 17:12). All are guilty of everything, including the capital offenses. OK, so now we’re finally there... God’s Word COMMANDS us such that we’ve got to kill EVERYBODY!!!
(I am still looking for that special exception clause for me & my friends & family… I am sure I will find it soon!)
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 2 Peter 2:13-14
You know, as a Black (don’t forget gay) man who is GOP Proud like Milo and Caitlin I was reading this and thinking, “Gee, Ali, this could be exactly the slogan we need for the new libertarian and GOP (but I repeat myself!) movement that promises to free us from the tyranny of Twitter fact checkers.
The War on Immigration bears a lot of similarity to the War on Drugs:
- It is a problem that never seems to end, no matter who is in charge or how much money is thrown at the problem
- Fighting the war is very expensive, both in terms of money and in terms of liberty
- Efforts to fight the war wind up depriving otherwise law-abiding citizens of their rights, who have no connection to immigrants/drugs
- The warriors continually claim that this one more policy or this one politician if elected will 'stem the tide' and finally win the war, but that never materializes
- Both parties gain great power and much fundraising from demagoguery on the issue, so they have no real incentive to ever 'win' the war
- There is a great deal of hypocrisy baked into the system: many drugs are legal that are more harmful than illegal ones; many immigrants are permitted to come here legally ahead of the line in front of those who are much more deserving
- And most fundamentally: it's a victimless crime that shouldn't be a crime in the first place.
If you're a libertarian who opposes the War on Drugs, for many if not all of the reasons above, then IMO you ought to also oppose the War on Immigration.
Common libertarian objections:
1. "The government must first end the welfare state before opening the borders."
This is based on a faulty premise that immigrants are these huge consumers of social welfare benefits. They are not. Study after study has shown that immigrants consume welfare benefits about at the same rate as native-born citizens, with similar levels of education and family size. And because there are many fewer immigrants than there are native-born citizens, the cost to the welfare state from immigrants is dwarfed by the cost of the welfare state from native-born citizens.
If one is serious about addressing the cost of the welfare state, then one must confront the main driver of its costs, which is from native-born citizens, not immigrants. Restricting immigration to control the spending of the welfare state is like canceling a Netflix subscription in order to cover a $30,000 credit card bill. It is a drop in the bucket. And it is not a cost-free choice, as it comes with its own intendent costs and deprivation of rights, as illustrated above.
2. "I don't want the country flooded with illegals who will vote for Democrats."
First, residency is not the same as citizenship. "Open borders" is not the same as "open citizenship". There is nothing inconsistent with having an immigration and naturalization process that is generous towards residency but strict towards citizenship.
Second, who says that even if they become citizens, that they will vote for Democrats (or Republicans or anyone else)? They are individuals who, like all individuals, have their own desires and beliefs and concerns, to which anyone with a persuasive argument may be able to reach. To lump them all in as "Democrat voters" is to deny their own individuality and agency.
3. "The government has the right to control the flow of people over the border due to property rights, since the government owns all the land in the country."
What is the real purpose of a border? I would argue that the purpose of an international border is to restrain governments, not to restrain people. A border represents the maximum extent of a particular government's jurisdiction, and it is an international recognition that a government's power and might may extend only so far. If a government violates the sovereignty associated with a border, then the rest of the nations tend to view this violation as a breach of international standards (i.e. Russia vs. Ukraine). Why should individual people be so restrained? Individuals, on their own, do not represent the sovereign power and might of a government. They are instead free people expressing their freedom of association.
Also, it is a bad idea to try to justify immigration restrictions based on some collective property rights of the government. How is this indistinguishable from socialism or communism? I own my property, you own your property, the government does not own either one. The government setting rules (and charging property taxes) on the property does not forfeit property rights; it is more akin to the relationship between a property owner and an HOA.
Lastly - we're libertarians. Why should we be blithely giving away our liberties? We of all people should be the ones most jealously guarding them. That includes freedom of association, freedom of movement, and restoration of our lost liberties that have been stolen from us in the name of the War on Immigration, such as the right of an employer to hire whichever employee he/she wishes regardless of nationality or immigration status.
Most people don't object to skilled, legal immigration. What we object to is unskilled and illegal immigration.
Unskilled and illegal immigrants are a net drain on American taxpayers and lower the per-capita GDP of the country. Those are the reasons we object; whether they specifically "consume welfare benefits" is irrelevant.
No, we justify them on the right to self-determination and our individual property rights.
You're not.
I'm trying to understand why, when I was in Canada and needed healthcare, they handed me a bill after the procedure.
1. How did they determine that I was supposed to get a bill at all?
2. Once I fell into whatever that category was, why did I get that bill?
They checked your social score, silly.
Unskilled and illegal immigrants are a net drain on American taxpayers
So are unskilled citizens. Once again, if you are going to start taking away people's rights because they are a "net drain on American taxpayers", then focusing on immigrants is a waste of time, since it's the native-born citizens who are, by far, the biggest drain on taxpayers. You are trying to reduce a $30,000 debt by canceling a Netflix subscription. Umm, there are much bigger costs to the welfare state than that.
No, we justify them on the right to self-determination
Is this the "right to self-determination" for individuals, or for the state?
and our individual property rights.
What about the property rights of individuals who wish to associate with undocumented migrants? Do they count?
You're not.
Are you? Why are you so eager to take away people's liberties in the name of the War on Immigration? Above you proposed a scheme that, AT BEST, perpetuates and continues mass collection of data by the government, and AT WORST, extends it even further to every economic transaction. How about - say - the government shouldn't have all that info in the first place? That my economic transactions ought to be only of concern between myself and other willing market participants? What happened to that idea?
I'm not proposing taking away anybody's rights. Nobody has a "right to immigrate" to the US.
I'm not "focusing on immigrants", I'm focusing on low skilled immigrants and illegal immigrants, and that's not a "waste of time" at all.
The right to self-determination is for the people.
In the US, they count as much as everybody else: if they have preferences on immigration, they need to work through the political process to get their laws passed.
I'm not proposing taking away people's liberties.
It does none of those things.
That's a fine idea. And in order to turn that into reality, you need to go through the legislatures. I encourage you to make that case to the American people. However, "it's my right and you're a meanie if you don't agree with me and you can't enforce borders anyway" is not going to change a lot of minds.
I'm not proposing taking away anybody's rights. Nobody has a "right to immigrate" to the US.
But individuals do have a right to associate with whom they choose, don't they?
And once again, whether it is about "low-skilled workers" or whether it is about "the welfare state", you are completely focused on the tiny part of the problem, that which is due to immigrants, and completely ignoring the much larger part of the problem, that which is due to native-born citizens.
"I'm sick and tired of all those welfare moochers. Therefore I'm going to bitch and moan about the 10% of the people who are the problem, and totally ignore the other 90%!"
This technique is otherwise known as scapegoating. That is what you and a lot of immigration warriors do.
The right to self-determination is for the people.
Individuals, or "the people" collectively?
What about the property rights of individuals who wish to associate with undocumented migrants? Do they count?
In the US, they count as much as everybody else: if they have preferences on immigration, they need to work through the political process to get their laws passed.
So you don't recognize property rights as *rights*, but as permissions to be granted by the political process. Got it.
Above you proposed a scheme that, AT BEST, perpetuates and continues mass collection of data by the government, and AT WORST, extends it even further to every economic transaction.
It does none of those things.
Yes it does, by your own admission. Every time someone gets a credit check performed, you want the government notified and told if the person getting the credit check is an illegal immigrant or not. Do you not see how this can be abused?
And you didn't answer the question: Do you consider yourself a libertarian, and if so, why do you want to surrender so many liberties to the state?
Under our legal system, that right is not unlimited.
The number of illegal and low-skilled immigrants in this country is comparable to the number of Americans living in poverty. So, it is incorrect to say that one problem is "much larger" than the other.
Furthermore, when you have debt or money problem, you stop wasteful spending wherever you can. We can legally stop low-skill immigration, so obviously, we should do that. Whether it is a small or a big drain on our nation is irrelevant, it is a drain.
Under our system of government, that is a collective right to self-determination, through representative democracy.
Well, that's the way it works in the US. US voters get to take half of my earnings, US voters get to tax me five figures on my home every year, and US voters get to determine who gets to immigrate and who doesn't.
I do consider myself a libertarian, and I would like the US to become more libertarian. Flooding it with poor third world migrants is going to make it less libertarian.
You are using the status quo to defend the status quo. This is inherently a circular argument. I am arguing that when it comes to immigration, the status quo itself is largely broken. So arguing against this by referring to the status quo is just another form of argument from authority. So either start defending why you think the status quo is correct, or knock it off with the argument from authority.
The number of illegal and low-skilled immigrants in this country is comparable to the number of Americans living in poverty. So, it is incorrect to say that one problem is "much larger" than the other.
"Low-skilled immigrants" are not necessarily living in poverty, and Americans living in poverty are not necessarily "low-skilled", so this is an invalid comparison.
I do consider myself a libertarian, and I would like the US to become more libertarian. Flooding it with poor third world migrants is going to make it less libertarian.
What do you think about requiring every employer to record every business transaction with every citizen and then hand over those transactions to the government on demand, as you propose above? Do you think that would make the country more libertarian, or less libertarian?
I'm not "defending the status quo". The status quo is broken in many ways.
I'm saying that we live in a representative democracy and if you want change, you need to play by the rules of that democracy and make political proposals that have a chance of getting adopted.
Unilaterally opening the borders to anyone is not such a proposal; even if it were a libertarian policy, it is not politically or economically viable.
You know what has a chance of being adopted? Enforcing the laws against illegal immigration while simultaneously opening the borders using a skill-based point system is a proposal that does have a political chance.
I'm not "defending the status quo".
Yeah you are, when it comes to immigration restrictionism. You are absolutely defending the invasion of privacy by the state into private economic transactions in order to find all of these illegal immigrants. You are absolutely defending the criminalization of the freedom of association with people who lack papers and you are defending the immense cost associated with a futile war on a victimless crime. And you frame any attempts to disrupt this status quo as illegitimate because the status quo represents the popular will (supposedly). Well the popular will is not necessarily right nor just, and continually deflecting arguments for changing the status quo with "well that's just how it is" (appeal to tradition) or "well that's what the people have chosen" (appeal to the mob) is disingenuous. If immigration restrictionism is the correct libertarian policy, it would not be because it is what the people have collectively chosen. That would be populism, not libertarianism. Instead it would be because (allegedly) having a War on Immigration is the best choice for preserving liberty. I believe you fail to make the case, and you continually fail to make that case when you continually appeal to the mob or to tradition instead of making liberty-based arguments.
First of all, our discussion has been whether immigration enforcement is feasible. You claimed it wasn't, I explained to you how it was, and without privacy violations. That's not my idea, that's how a lot of other countries function.
Second, I am simply defending the rule of law. By definition, an illegal alien is in the country illegally and therefore the law should be enforced against them. I also object to income taxation, but I pay my income taxes, I expect others to do the same, and I expect prosecution and harsh punishment of tax evaders.
You are welcome to argue for unrestricted immigration if you like, but that is a decision that has to be made by the legislature. Simply not enforcing the law against illegal aliens, as you suggest, would be a usurpation of legislative power by the executive branch. If you advocate that, you are advocating authoritarianism.
I agree. And whether it is "the correct libertarian policy" depends on whether you are a minarchist libertarian or an anarchist libertarian.
If you're an anarchist libertarian, there is no state to impose immigration restrictions. Of course, there will be HOAs and other mechanisms to regulate where people can and cannot go.
If you're a minarchist libertarian, then there is a state with well-defined national borders and laws in which the minimal government exists. And those laws are pretty much by definition not libertarian, because if they were, they would be private, voluntary arrangements, not laws. That is, a minarchist libertarian state is a compromise between libertarian, voluntary arrangements and non-libertarian, politically determined laws. People make such compromises because in a world of non-libertarian nation states, you are forced to.
What is certainly not "libertarian" is to impose a non-libertarian state on them and then impose open borders on them against their will, and that is what you are suggesting.
For the nth time, I have proposed no such thing. Here's a hint: if you want to start persuading other people, debate them honestly, listen to what they have to say, and don't fabricate positions they don't hold and misattribute them to them.
For the nth time, I have proposed no such thing.
Charitably, I don't think you are clear about the consequences of your own proposal. You pretend that it is possible for the government to know all the businesses that illegal aliens are transacting with, WITHOUT requiring any more businesses to 'check papers' than the ones who already do, and WITHOUT mass collection of data by those businesses and handing it over to the government. Your proposal is either not honest in what it would really require, or is a toothless proposal that will do nothing about the problem that you want to solve. Since I assume that you are sincere in wanting to 'solve' the illegal immigrant problem, then I believe it is the former not the latter.
First of all, if you don't want to come across as a jerk, don't tell other people that they are "pretending".
Second, it is entirely unnecessary for the government to "know all the businesses that illegal aliens are transacting with" or to find and deport all illegal aliens.
All that is necessary is to make the cost and risk of transacting with illegal aliens so high for businesses that they don't do it. That takes very little enforcement. Slap one electric company with multimillion dollar penalties (and maybe throw a few executives in jail) for selling electricity to illegals and every electric company in the country will start checking RealID and green cards very carefully.
This is not rocket science, lots of countries do it. In fact, as an immigrant myself, I can tell you that it used to be common in the US to check legal residency for most businesses. It is only due to the deliberate non-enforcement of immigration laws in recent decades that this stopped.
Nor did I claim any of that. You claimed that
Your claim is false, because the two problems are, in fact, of about equal magnitude.
But, as I was saying, no matter their relative size, the negative economic and fiscal impact of low skilled (im)migrants is something we can easily and legally avoid.
What I don't get about people like you is why you hate high skilled immigration so much. It would be quite easy to convince Republicans to pass laws that allow millions of high skilled immigrants into the country, provided we strictly enforce our laws against illegal immigrants. Why do you reject this?
Your claim is false, because the two problems are, in fact, of about equal magnitude.
LOL you are ridiculous sometimes. The two problems could only be of 'about equal magnitude' if you make the assumptions which I demonstrate above are false. Some Americans in poverty are children or retirees, who don't and shouldn't count as 'low-skilled workers'. Some immigrant 'low-skilled workers' have jobs, don't use welfare, and aren't a problem at all. And by SHEER NUMBERS, there are way more native-born citizens than there are immigrants.
Yes, if one is in debt, one tries to save money wherever one can. HOWEVER, if a household is in $30,000 credit card debt, and you keep focusing on canceling the Netflix subscription to save money, and you obsess about it, and you can't shut up about wanting to cancel that damn Netflix subscription, and you vote and campaign for a president who makes it his signature policy to cancel Netflix subscriptions to 'save money', or, to 'make the household great again', while *completely ignoring* the much larger drivers of the debt, one might be forgiven for believing that the crusade against Netflix subscriptions really isn't about saving money at all.
And I don't "hate" any immigration. I am in favor of high-skilled immigration, I am in favor of low-skilled immigration, I am in favor of any immigration that represents the free movement of people peacefully exercising their liberty of association with whom they choose.
And if you claim to be a libertarian, how can you not see the clear parallels between the War on Drugs and the War on Immigration? We libertarians rightly object to the War on Drugs based in part of all of the abuses mentioned above. How can you object to those abuses when applied to the War on Drugs, but be so tolerant of those very same abuses when applied to the War on Immigration? Liberty is liberty, isn't it?
No, you are in favor of the executive branch usurping the power of the legislative branch by failing to enforce immigration law.
You shouldn't "keep focusing" on canceling the Netflix subscription, you should cancel it right away. Period.
My libertarian views on drug or immigration laws are irrelevant to this discussion. You haven't been advocating liberalizing immigration or drug laws, you have been advocating non-enforcement of existing laws, a usurpation of legislative power by the executive, and that is the essence of authoritarianism.
Exportation of prohibition laws wrecks foreign economies the same way felony beer crashed the U.S. economy into the Great Depression. That fanatical looter prohibitionism is driving the Exodus of victims of Our Own Kleptocracy northward as huddled masses. The Republican party (and Biden) are the main perps.
"Mostly, [the Declaration of Independence is] a laundry list of complaints about how the government really sucks."
So the founders were a bunch of seditious, fascist MAGA types?
Maybe the new Supremes can reign in the federal government a bit. Though old-school conservatives have a major hardon for putting druggies in prison. Because of that I suspect that if a Republican administration challenged states with legal weed, that the court would forget all about federalism.
the fuck? That was a stand alone comment.
As opposed to who? The 1986 act was passed by a Democratic House and a Republican Senate.
And Democrats have not been good on even marijuana legalization. Like immigration, abortion, and gay marriage, they have paid lip service to it occasionally, but their actual legislative record is dismal.
" The Founders had some pretty good ideas, it turns out. "
Some were excellent.
Others were shitty, disgusting, ignorant, and/or immoral.
Progress involves emphasizing the good and discarding the stale, ugly parts.
My favorite thing the Founders put in the Constitution was the right to access abortion care. And I thought that would be safe forever, especially after you told us Biden would expand the Supreme Court to 13 within 6 months of inauguration.
Yet here we are a year after your timeframe. And not only is the number of justices stuck at 9, but now the ultimate SUPER-PRECEDENT Roe v. Wade has been overturned. What happened, Art? How did you botch this prediction so severely? Did you sleep through the court expansion theory lectures at Yale Law?
#LibertariansForCourtExpansion
Someone shot a judge recently, and no news outlet reveals whether the victim was Republican or Democrat. Which was it?
I though Obama/Biden would codify Roe into federal law in 2009, after saying on the campaign trail in 2008 that this was their "highest priority".
It's almost like abortion is a campaign gimmick for Biden, not something he intends to actually implement as a policy.
Yes Arty, that’s why you and your fellow travelers have to go.
"...Others were shitty, disgusting, ignorant, and/or immoral..."
Not nearly as shitty, disgusting, ignorant and/or immoral as youpr posts, asshole bigot.
Just remember, Boehm the birdbrain, you reluctantly voted for this. You, and people like you, own this debacle.
A liberal immigration policy is the only thing preventing the US from going on a steep population decline like China. Name all the Americans who have contributed to world science, technology, and art, and try and name me one who wasn't an immigrant or from a family of recent immigrants.
All of that we must throw out the window because some people have the mistaken impression that it's all about fair skin.
Tony wouldn't know how to integrate e to the x if he had to. At least LOOK at a population chart and notice that 200,000 a day increase is not the imminent extinction of humanity which has doubled since 1970.
Can you show me the plethora of science and technology from people without fair skin?
There are plenty of excellent Chinese and Indian scientists.
The problem is that the US is giving preference to low skill agricultural workers rather than high skilled and educated foreigners.
And that's no accident: US elites don't want the competition, but they do want cheap serfs.
There would be no "Western civilization" if Muslims hadn't preserved it while the Christians were having one of their book burnin' moments.
It is. And lots of people would like a liberal immigration policy. But as long as progressives clog our immigration system with fake asylum seekers and illegal migrants, that's not going to happen.
No, it must be thrown out the window because racists like you want to flood the country with people based on their race, rather than based on their skill.
Immigration is pretty easy: kick out everybody who is here illegally and admit people based on a point system that measures education, income, ability to speak English, useful skills, etc.
Fine. We can do a first order screening of people who wish to immigrate based on their potential to contribute. And they trade them one-for-one with natives who have proven themselves to be useless.
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/politicians-are-the-referees-of-america
The greatest thing about individual freedom is that it allows every citizen to ascertain their own unique circumstances and make decisions based on that information — information nobody else in the world has. When government makes decisions, they not only lack the necessary information to make the best decision for your circumstances, in most cases they’re not even considering your circumstances at all, because political bodies make decisions for political reasons, not practical ones.
The last couple years of covid rules are perhaps the perfect example of the folly of top-down decision-making. Covid restrictions were never based on actual science or data, but (shockingly) were based on POLITICAL reasoning. When the politics demanded that New York ‘reject’ the Trump Vaccine, the politicians were adamant that’s what they would do. Now that the political winds have shifted and the Democrats are in control, the politics demands that New York mandates the vaccine for normal life, even children going to school. (You’ll note that politicians in Europe have different political pressures and come to different conclusions about jabbing the kids)
Mask mandates are another covid-related example. They never worked, they never made sense (why would recovered people need to mask?), and even so they were removed due to political concerns, not practical ones. It didn’t matter how many facts and figures Team Reality brought to the table, because the goal was never public health — it was the expansion of political power.
In a sane world, mankind uses its reasoning to quickly determine what works and what doesn’t, and we shift our approach based on that information. In a political world, we collude to smear the people who actually have the correct approach. We fire nurses who don’t want to get a shot that doesn’t stop transmission as well as doctors who dare suggest that anything but the vaccine might help. And even though all of the data screams against it, idiot politicians are STILL mandating boosters.
Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, bleach. STFU
Maybe the new Supremes can reign in the federal government a bit. Though old-school conservatives have a major hardon for putting druggies in prison. Because of that I suspect that if a Republican administration challenged states with legal weed, that the court would forget all about federalism.
Ask the Native American population how that open-borders policy worked-out.
Which wave of "natives"?
What do you get when you cross Captain America with The Incredible Hulk? The Star Spangled Banner! (No no, no need to thank me. It’s all in a day’s work here at the Reason commentariat.)
Happy Fourth of July to all!
That was…… painful.
"governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes."
Biden has stated over and over his goal it to fundamentally change America.
Reason doesn't write about that.
Why?
Anti-Immigrant Policies and open borders are not the same thing. While they raged against Anti-Immigrant Policies they still instituted border policies. Don't conflate and confuse the issues. That is why our founders instituted a standing Navy, but not a standing army. Smuggling was a major concern for the new nation.