Witnesses, Video Suggest Stunning Inaction From Uvalde Cops During School Shooting
Plus: Oklahoma's new strict abortion ban, Biden's new order on federal policing, and more…

Cops waited outside while shooter killed students. In yesterday's Roundup, I suggested that while everyone was looking for larger forces to blame, the only real villain in the shooting at a Uvalde, Texas, elementary school that left more than 20 people dead was the shooter himself. But I was wrong. Video and witness accounts from outside Uvalde's Robb Elementary School suggest local police officers not only failed to try and stop the shooter for an unconscionably long time but also actively prevented parents from trying to save their kids.
The shooter—Salvador Ramos—was inside the school for 40 minutes or more while police stood around outside, the Associated Press reports. "Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school," but the officers reportedly waited outside until a SWAT team was ready.
How many lives could have been saved if the cops had acted sooner? If they had bravely put their lives on the line instead of letting elementary school children and teachers fend for themselves against an armed madman for nearly an hour?
Instead, witnesses say the cops stood guard outside the school, preventing parents from rushing in to try and stop the shooter themselves:
Javier Cazares, whose fourth grade daughter, Jacklyn Cazares, was killed in the attack, said he raced to the school when he heard about the shooting, arriving while police were still gathered outside the building.
Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.
"Let's just rush in because the cops aren't doing anything like they are supposed to," he said. "More could have been done."
Video taken by Hugo Cervantes shows cops corralling parents outside the school, even pinning one man down. (It's unclear at what point in the ordeal this video was taken.)
This video make so much more sense now. The cops literally stopped parents from helping their kids. pic.twitter.com/zhQfUjlpjd https://t.co/DqgZUH3uCC
— Matt Novak (@paleofuture) May 26, 2022
Keeping people from rushing into an active shooter scene is typical police practice, of course. But it takes on a sinister tone when police themselves are failing to intervene.
https://twitter.com/CathyGellis/status/1529702261672140801
A school cop allegedly encountered the shooter on his way into the school but was unable to stop him.
"Officials say [Ramos] 'encountered' a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire," notes the A.P.
From inside, Ramos shot at and injured two officers outside the building, according to a Texas Department of Public Safety official. ("Officials have said repeatedly that they sustained just minor injuries," notes Vice.) After that, local police apparently decided to wait until a tactical team could be put together before going in.
I don't claim to be the bravest gunfighter in the long history of gunfighting, but I am flabbergasted that police thought confining the shooter inside a classroom with children was "mission accomplished" until SWAT arrived. WTactualF. https://t.co/dPyLXXQmXr
— Andrew Exum (@ExumAM) May 26, 2022
In the wake of tragedies like this, people often suggest that what we need is more security—more police in schools, more police in general. But this isn't even the first school shooting where school law enforcement failed to act. How can more school cops help if we can't even trust them to do their jobs when they're needed most?
Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said somewhere between 40 minutes and an hour went by between the time Ramos encountered the school security officer and when he was killed by the tactical team that included Border Patrol agents. ("But I don't want to give you a particular timeline," McCraw told reporters.)
Over the course of those 40 minutes to an hour, Ramos barricaded himself inside a classroom and started shooting those within it. All of the children and teachers Ramos killed were in that one classroom, a Department of Public Safety spokesperson told CNN on Wednesday morning.
"A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key," the A.P. reports.
Uvalde is a town of just 16,000 people. But it apparently has a SWAT team.
We're regularly told small towns need SWAT teams so they can quickly respond to events just like this. The killer was in the building for an hour. https://t.co/lsa2ACcnS8
— Radley Balko (@radleybalko) May 26, 2022
Uvalde is a relatively small town—just 16,000 or so residents. Yet it has its own SWAT team, as Radley Balko pointed out on Twitter. Police departments justify the need for such heavy-duty teams by warning about scenarios like this and the need to act quickly in them. And yet here we are.
As of now, no one has any idea why Ramos went on this abominable rampage, leaving 21 people dead and at least 17 others injured. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Ramos was not known to have a criminal record or mental health issues in his history.
FOLLOW-UP
Oklahoma governor signs near-total ban on abortion into law. "Gov. Kevin Stitt on Wednesday signed into law the nation's strictest abortion ban, making the state the first in the nation to effectively end availability of the procedure," ABC News reports.
"I promised Oklahomans that as governor I would sign every piece of pro-life legislation that came across my desk and I am proud to keep that promise today," said Stitt in a statement. "From the moment life begins at conception is when we have a responsibility as human beings to do everything we can to protect that baby's life and the life of the mother."
More about the law—which cleared the state's House of Representatives back in March—here. Like the controversial six-week abortion ban enacted by Texas last year, Oklahoma's ban is to be enforced through lawsuits by private actors. It allows suits against anyone who "performs or induces" an abortion, as well as anyone who "aids or abets the performance" of an abortion.
FREE MINDS
Biden issues criminal justice reform order. President Joe Biden has signed an executive order limiting federal law enforcement's use of chokeholds and no-knock warrants, adopting new body-camera policies, establishing a national database to track police misconduct, and restricting the transfer of military equipment to police departments. The order also tells federal law enforcement to use deadly force only "when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person." And it says federal cops must intervene if they see colleagues using excessive force or committing other constitutional violations.
"Although the order will have some noticeable impacts on federal law enforcement, it will have much less power over the roughly 18,000 state and local police departments across the U.S., where the vast majority of policing occurs," Reason's C.J. Ciaramella points out:
The federal government can only nudge these departments toward its preferred policies by offering grants for complying agencies, or withholding grants from those that refuse to adapt. That's why the FBI has struggled to build a national police use-of-force database; police departments simply don't have to participate.
For example, all federal law enforcement agencies will be required to participate in the misconduct database, but the White House press release only notes that state and local agencies "are encouraged to enter their records as well."
As much as some would like to believe that the president can solve America's policing woes with the stroke of a pen, true efforts to improve police accountability and curb misconduct will have to be fought state by state, county by county, and town by town.
FREE MARKETS
Klobuchar antitrust bill is back, and still a mess. Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D–Minn.) has introduced an updated version of an antitrust bill (the American Innovation and Choice Online Act, initially proposed in January) and it's not any better than the previous version, experts say.
"The bill makes zero changes to its heart - the ban on vertical integration that would effectively ban or degrade Amazon Prime, Amazon Basics, Google maps in search results, and Apple apps on iPhones," points out Chamber of Progress founder and CEO Adam Kovacevich. "The bill also still effectively bans content moderation, through its language on 'similarly situated business users.'"
So to sum up, Klobuchar's much-awaited response to the criticism of her bill is:
✅ Political favors for telcos, banks, and TikTok
✅ Make it *easier* to bring suit against Big Tech
???? Do literally *nothing* to address Dem criticism over content moderation or consumer impact— Adam Kovacevich (@adamkovac) May 26, 2022
The bill's "worst attributes remain intact," agreed Josh Withrow, a technology and innovation fellow with the R Street Institute. "Data privacy and security compromised, popular integrated products likely to be dismantled, companies still guilty till proven innocent, etc. Senators w/ grave concerns in [committee] should still be concerned."
Turns out: Senator Klobuchar spent the last few months negotiating crony capitalist carve outs—not actual improvements.
Nothing says "my legislation is for the public good" like constantly changing its scope to exempt favored industries. ????
— Chris Marchese (@ChrisMarchese9) May 26, 2022
Changes are out and the bill still has the same problems it always had because Klobuchar inherently targets integration, even those that benefit consumers. I wrote about the bill here. @AAF https://t.co/EM7Q4yyjDA https://t.co/B3uCga8S6t
— Jeffrey Westling (@jeffreywestling) May 26, 2022
QUICK HITS
• The U.S. birth rate bounced back slightly in 2021. "Births increased last year for the first time in seven years," reports The Wall Street Journal, as "American women had about 3.66 million babies in 2021, up 1% from the prior year." The biggest birth rate increase was among people ages 30- to 39-years-old, while the teen birth rate fell 6 percent.
• The U.S. House of Representatives will vote soon on a bill that would give federal courts the power to issue "extreme risk protection orders" (ERPOs), "which temporarily confiscate guns from people who are deemed a risk to themselves or others, or prevent them from purchasing new ones. The orders can be requested by law enforcement and concerned family members," Politico reports.
This is not something, generally, that the district courts have the resources or capacity to handle.
Makes much more sense to have ERPOs handled at the state level, which already has experience with immediate-action ex parte petitions in the intimate partner violence area.
— Gabriel Malor (@gabrielmalor) May 25, 2022
- Huh.
The word "chief" will no longer be used in reference to job titles in the San Francisco Unified School District in an effort, school officials said, to avoid the word's connotation with Native Americans. A replacement term has not been determined.https://t.co/7S1nzLrc37
— San Francisco Chronicle (@sfchronicle) May 25, 2022
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Cops waited outside while shooter killed students.
Their training is to go home safe at all expense.
That's what I came here to say.
Worthless pieces of shit.
Someone should have told them their dog was loose in the school.
FREE DONUTS!
This is only shocking because too many people haven't yet internalized this fact yet: the police aren't your guardians, they're the state's enforcers.
Yes, but as long as they are claiming to be something else, I'd like to hold them to it. I don't find this shocking at all. But it still pisses me off.
So hold them to it, zeb.
Get up off your ass and do something
I don't see you telling anyone what you're going to do about it.
I'm not claiming I'll do anything about it, or virtuebating on command.
But hey, at least you eventually came around to disagreeing with lockdowns too. I mean, you still credited the leftists/State Supremacists with being "mistaken", but I'm sure they'll totes never do anything like that again
Huh? I was entirely opposed to any lockdowns or forced business closures and any other public health mandates from day 1. I was saying in 2020 that the people who implemented them were committing crimes against humanity.
This is an internet comment section where I throw some ideas around and try to have some fun. Not a place where I reveal all of my thoughts and beliefs.
The sad thing is that it has always been this way. The same damn thing happened in Columbine.
And they want us to disarm ourselves. Makes sense.
Columbine was actually what led to the change in procedures for these things. Before, it was treated as a hostage situation, but afterwards, the cops are supposed to rush the building and take the shooter out as fast as possible because he isn't there to make demands.
This is particularly egregious for a police unit trained in small-unit military engagement tactics to not employ that immediately for the very purpose they were hired.
The parents were talking about going in themselves, which I'm actually surprised they didn't do. I'd be willing to bet at least one of them had a gun in their truck and probably would have ended the whole thing before the Border Patrol had to intervene.
if my kid was in that school I would rather be shot by the cops for disobeying them or by the shooter inside the school than to stand outside waiting and hoping for the best. Nothing on this earth would keep me from running in there
if my kid was in that school I would rather be shot by the cops for disobeying them or by the shooter inside the school than to stand outside waiting and hoping for the best. Nothing on this earth would keep me from running in there
^
I'm not certain they could have stopped the whole thing, because evidently the kid had body armor on. But, they could have delayed things long enough for the kids to escape.
That is the other crazy thing here. We have known since Sandy Hook that "Lock down and Shelter in Place" is not enough. Once your "shelter" is breached, you must advance into fight or flee. The kids in the classroom that survived Sandy Hook were the kids who bolted out the door- against teacher warnings- when that asshole was able to get into the classroom.
If you just sit there when someone breaches your safe place, you are going to be butchered. Kids need to flee and teachers need to know that their only alternative at this point is to fight however they can so that the kids can escape. A parent with a gun may have done exactly that.
Teach kids to rush the fucking shooter.
That isn't going to do shit with 4th graders. Maybe train them to throw shit at the shooter when he comes in and then bolt.
A dozen or so would.
Yes, you'll lose a couple in the attempt.
But it's better than doing nothing and waiting for everyone to get shot.
I read it was a plate carrier with no plates.
Beyond that there are still vulnerable zones that can incapacitate someone - hip girdle, head etc.
But more importantly, if you engage him then he spends his ammo shooting at you, not shooting little kids.
"I read it was a plate carrier with no plates.
Beyond that there are still vulnerable zones that can incapacitate someone - hip girdle, head etc."
And even with plates, bullets carry a lot of kinetic energy. Its not a pain free easy peezy experience. Especially a little twerp like this. 1-2 rounds on target would put him on his ass.
Of course most importantly any kind of resistance (especially gunfire coming at you) is infinitely more of a difficult situation than what he previously had, which was free reign. The threat alone of a bullet coming at him would have stopped his killing spree as it would have taken 100% of his attention.
Yeah. Getting shot with armor hurts. Friend had a picture of the bruise from one of his tours some years ago and the bruise is impressive.
Saved his life, for sure. But he jokes that his "purple heart" was more like huge black and blue and yellow spot on his chest.
I'm not going to second guess anyone's actions there, but armor wasn't a reason not to do things. Armor or no putting a few rounds on target makes the enemy duck and hide.
He had a vest. No plating.
There are many reasons to carry an accurate, high-caliber handgun on a daily basis. Even if the armor stops it, they will not be standing. Same for the second and third shot on a resistant window.
Anything other than turning their backs to the murder and stopping parents. Fuck. I would volunteer to lead for those cowards if my daughter was the one dying in there.
The parents were talking about going in themselves, which I'm actually surprised they didn't do.
Cops were there to stop that.
I'd be willing to bet at least one of them had a gun in their truck and probably would have ended the whole thing before the Border Patrol had to intervene.
Nope. The cops would have killed them.
Blind hatred makes you say stupid shit.
So does booze.
"The parents were talking about going in themselves, which I'm actually surprised they didn't do."
Did you miss the part that said the cops were actively preventing the parents from doing so?
I'm beginning to think "protect and serve" might be false advertising... that I pay for... in more ways than one.
They protect their corrupt brothers in blue and serve their union masters. Nothing false there.
The cops are glorified janitors. Their job is to take out the trash after the party is over.
If that were my town? Or my children?
Get out before I burn you out.
Here is a version of the video we see at my workplace every time an incident like this takes place. The civilians here show far more bravery than the law enforcers in Uvalde, Texas:
Surviving an Active Shooter Event - Civilian Response to Active Shooter
https://youtu.be/j0It68YxLQQ
Avoid, Deny, Defend! The Life, Liberty, and Property You Save May Be Yoir Own!
Come now.
If the cops had charged in with guns blazing, REASON would have complained about paramilitary policing.
You want to defund the police?
You want to bust up police unions?
You want to railroad cops into prison for using their weapons?
Expect more police inaction when a crisis hit.
In the market, you get what you demand.
...local police officers not only failed to try and stop the shooter for an unconscionably long time but also actively prevented parents from trying to save their kids.
A police perimeter is sacrosanct.
Instead, witnesses say the cops stood guard outside the school, preventing parents from rushing in to try and stop the shooter themselves...
The lesson is, of course, that only the government should legally be armed.
Without a doubt. They know best, and only act in our best interests.
...I am flabbergasted that police thought confining the shooter inside a classroom with children was "mission accomplished" until SWAT arrived.
You're just lucky that SWAT didn't have to wait for Ultra-SWAT to show up.
That's when you bring in the forklifts and destroy every wall of the house next door.
The documentary about the Marvin Heemyer in Granby, CO with the bulldozer is an interesting watch, for sure.
Who needs a crazy guy in colorado when the colorado police will do it for massive cost?
I was referring to this incident:
https://reason.com/2019/10/31/cops-destroyed-this-house-to-arrest-a-shoplifter-a-federal-court-says-police-dont-have-to-pay-for-the-damage/
Infuriating.
I just watched the documentary I had referenced and while unrelated (except for the aspect of destroying buildings with heavy machinery) thought it was a very interesting flick.
We are loosely acquainted with some of his friends. They were like, "Oh yeah, we knew he was building that tank...We never thought he was serious about it, though."
It really is a fascinating story.
"Sure, we knew he was building that tank. He subscribed to "Home Tank/Dozer Quarterly". And he was up all night welding something. And he'd basically had his life's work destroyed by the city council.
Just never put two and two together, I guess."
You mean the Killdozer
"The U.S. birth rate bounced back slightly in 2021."
That's bad news from a Koch / Reason libertarian perspective. We prefer that American uterus owners don't reproduce, which allows us to say "See? Not enough new workers are being born. Guess we'll just have to import them from Mexico."
#CheapLaborAboveAll
Lots of anti-birthing person laws went in effect last year and resulted in more forced births.
Literally The Handmaid’s Tale.
people locked in their home for a year of Covid and their surprised birth rates went up
Probably divorce rates as well.
Suicide and murder rates increased too, as did heart attacks, strokes, and other stress-related illnesses. I suspect the lockdowns killed more people than COVID-19.
And did ENB really write that “3.66 million WOMEN”gave birth last year?
I know this is a pet peeve of yours, OBL, and I’m a little disappointed that you left this out of your post.
#DoBetter
Hey pal! Hope you’ve been well!
3.66 Americans with vaginas gave birth, and exactly 0 without. Leftist biology-deniers can't understand this.
HOWEVER. We must make our rules and regulations to carefully take into account the subjective *feelings* of the possible birthing-person-sans-uterus. Because the extrapolated feelings of such a possibly existing person trump all other considerations.
This goes way beyond people being innumerate or poor at risk assessment, this is just plain old bad faith bullshit.
Lots of stories about the shooting but very few facts other than the number of dead.
Well, yeah. Narrative uber alles.
can't go with the shooter's race
or his mental condition
or the effectiveness of law enforcement
or how effective gun free zones are
So let's focus on decimating the bill of right to an even greater degree.
Was the shooter a white supremacist?
Not yet. They’re working on it.
So a brave Border Patrol agent didn't run in all on his own, without backup or regard for his own well being, and stop the maniac from killing more childern?
We'll probably find out that he had shot himself after shooting all the people in the room. 40 minutes is an eternity in a shooting. It's shocking the death toll isn't way higher.
If he had 40 minutes, he would have time to reload a muzzle loading black powder rifle.
No it was a homophobic/transphobic white supremist border patrol agent that targeted an unarmed migrant
"No it was a homophobic/transphobic white supremist border patrol agent that targeted an unarmed GAY migrant. Also, Trump."
ftfy
Keeping people from rushing into an active shooter scene is typical police practice, of course. But it takes on a sinister tone when police themselves are failing to intervene.
"Get your colleague off his neck and render aid."
"No."
"Then let me get your colleague off his neck and render aid."
"Hell no, lmao."
https://twitter.com/bhweingarten/status/1529820924735782913?t=XNIqJY92UUYXGNqyv__m_Q&s=19
Trial of Clinton '16 campaign lawyer Michael Sussmann demonstrates the extent to which Durham's playing an away game against The Swamp that will make even those less sensitive targets pursued on narrow/straightforward grounds difficult to bring to justice
[Link]
Trying to get a Dem convicted in DC would be like trying to convict a White guy of assault against a Black guy in 1960s Alabama...ain't gonna happen.
Same is true the other direction, trying to get a Trump supporter off would as difficult as trying to defend a Black guy accused of rape in 1960s Alabama.
They only need 1 of the 3 Clinton donors on the jury to dig their feet in.
I heard about that. Can they then appeal on grounds of "improperly seated jury" or is the time for that over once the trial starts?
A light is being shone on the whole sordid and dirty affair, Nardz. You have to start somewhere and exposing what is true is a start. I personally think people need to go to jail over it. Starting with some of the FBI leadership, and those who lied to the FISA court.
"Wut?"
-Reason magazine
Believe I read the trial has recieved about 7 minutes of air time on most of the media channels.
who watches them anymore? seems like FOX News owns the market, to the consternation of the Left
Brian Stelter: "Trust in media is declining rapidly. Could WE be part of the problem?"
Also Brian Stelter: "Nah."
When seconds count, police will be there in minutes and probably won't save you even if it isn't too late. That is just reality. It is nice to grandstand and think every cop should go into the school and shoot it out with the guy. I would certainly like to think that is what I would have done. Who knows, however? I have never been in that situation. Maybe I or you or anyone else would chicken out too. One thing I do feel confident about is that I wouldn't chicken out if the guy were in front of me about to kill me. I trust my survival instinct.
The bottom line is this; you can't depend on other people, even cops to save you. So, you better be able to save yourself. And in this case, you better be armed. If you are not, you are likely screwed. Is it worth it for every teacher to carry a gun? I don't know. But, arming teachers is the only way to ever stop this sort of thing because calling the cops isn't going to do it. My guess is that even some teachers being armed would cause lunatics like this to find a better target. As crazy as they are, they never do this kind of thing in a place where they think their victims might shoot back.
I think you make a fair point. I have (thankfully) never been in a position of needing to shoot someone and hopefully never will. But from what I've heard from soldiers and others who have is that it's not easy, particularly the first time, even if it's justified by immediate self defense. It's easy to talk, but I can't say I know what I'd do in that situation either.
But I think we should expect more from police. We can't expect them to save us from any danger, as you say, but they were right fucking there. And the same shit has happened at other school shooting incidents. I hope they are at least ashamed of themselves for their inaction.
I am a firm believer that you are either a killer or you are not. The military people will tell you that they have some special claim on being a killer because of their training. The training makes them better at it if they are but I don't think it makes them into a killer if they were not already one. Time and again highly trained military personnel can't pull the trigger in combat. Most do but a good percentage do not. That has always been the case. Meanwhile, civilians shoot home intruders all of the time. A few times a year you hear about some 12 year old kid blasting a burglar with his dad's shotgun. If being a killer required training, that wouldn't happen. If training made you a killer, every trained soldier would pull the trigger in combat.
I have fired shots in anger in combat. They were not done in a personal way where you see the guy and kill him. They were just towards where the enemy was and likely didn't hit anything, though they might have. Maybe I wouldn't do it if it was really personal and the guy was in front of me but I think I probably would. I never had a second thought about pulling the trigger. I was certainly scared but I didn't think "what if this killed someone", I wanted to kill the people shooting at me in a very visceral way. I think that feeling is something that either wells up in a person or doesn't.
The training makes them better at it if they are but I don't think it makes them into a killer if they were not already one.
The vast majority of people who join the military would never be able to actually fire a shot in anger. You have to HATE the enemy to be able to put bullets in them, and I've unironically heard people in the military act absolutely flabbergasted when they find out they're going in to a combat zone. "I didn't join the military to go to war!" Well, shit, if you didn't want to risk that, you shouldn't have joined up.
I lost a very good friend from the military over that issue. He is one of those "I feel so guilty" veterans. I have no patience for that. First, it doesn't matter if you are actually pulling the trigger. As Patton said in the movie, "an Army is a team". Morally, you are just as responsible for the killing regardless of whether you are the guy pulling the trigger or the guy in the rear stacking water bottles. So, I can't stand people in the military who whine about having to pull a trigger as if that makes them any more morally culpable than anyone else. What really ended the friendship, however, was that I told him the only thing I felt guilty about was that I didn't get to kill enough. What the hell did you join the military for if not to kill people? He lost his mind over that one.
That’s the other thing that this gay, Black conservative enjoys about the libertarian movement: the willingness to kill poor peasants to enforce an economically-exploitative system on people who don’t live in the United States. You guys are the true heroes of the limited government movement.
The Short Bus version of OBL chimes in again.
Is it satire because it is unfunny or just sad?
Ali straightens crooked helmet and checks seatbelt, 'Ready Mr. Busdriver man
.. I didn't get to kill enough.
How many would have been enough?
How many would have been enough?
When the enemy throws down his weapons and begs you to stop and is rendered incapable of ever attacking anyone again.
Then it is enough.
I've been watching the PBS documentary from 2008 about the USS Nimitz, and one of the things that comes up is that even though there were people on the boat who didn't agree with the Iraq war, they acknowledged that ultimately it wasn't up to them while they were signed up. They still had a responsibility to carry out missions in the interests of strategic issues to which they were actually opposed. Ultimately, they reconciled that disagreement by focusing on the fact that they were still part of a team, and that their missions were helping to prevent their comrades on the ground from being killed.
The trump army has informed me that the US armed services is really nothing more than a welfare program for the physically fit. Expecting them to kill or follow orders is beyond the pale.
Retort: why doesn't my "random masculinity questioning insult" ass volunteer?
Answer: cause I'm old as shit you fucking lefty equivalent coward.
Cite?
The trump army has informed me that the US armed services is really nothing more than a welfare program for the physically fit.
Amusingly enough, I attended a conference where one of the panels discussed how the modern military morphed in to a form of lower-to-middle-class welfare--you get your housing paid for, your meals, your healthcare, your college education, shit, even your gravesite--just a lot of pretty basic stuff that's considered necessary for ordinary people to live a decent life, and in some cases you don't even have to put in four years, if there's a manning drawdown and they allow you to put in for early separation.
Was it a Trump Army conference?
They're working on removing that fatphobic "physically fit" part, too.
There are plenty of stories about troops in various actions in WW2 where they were reluctant to fire their weapon until their best friends face was turned into goo, then they got busy. Most of us do not want to kill anybody but if enough hatred/fear is induced in us we will become killers.
I was a bullied kid, until eventually I encountered situations where I HAD to take action. Had to be pulled off a couple of people who were processing the sudden transition from "bullying that scrawny new kid" to "I think I might get beaten to death here."
The knowledge that I could access that kind of "mother-lifts-bus-to-save-child" adrenaline strength has allowed me to just face down anybody who's wanted to fuck with me ever since. Most bullies can smell fear, and all but the dumbest can detect the absence of fear, which is not what they're in it for.
So yeah, I could kill somebody under the right circumstances. I don't think the the button-pushing, firing-into-the-smoke, impersonal video game type of killing would bother me too much either.
btw-as an accredited achaeomemeologist, nice username.
Why don't you send your kid to die!!!!1!!! ?
Hitting the Memorial Day drinking early, I see.
What is funny is that he doesn't understand that I went myself, which defeats the purpose of demanding I send my kid.
It is just amazing how stupid these people are.
The entire purpose of the transition from the M1 Garland to the M14 and M16 was because the pistol grip and other assault rifle features make far more likely for soldiers to fire their weapons in combat.
"But I think we should expect more from police. We can't expect them to save us from any danger, as you say, but they were right fucking there."
It's why I never took people like David Hogg seriously.
They hated guns...but the cop who sat outside and did nothing, even as cops from OTHER counties stormed in was not his concern. Nor was the sheriff who made the rules his concern. Guns were it.
And I agree the police failed here. All I am saying is that police being human will sometimes fail. That doesn't make it okay but condemning it isn't going to change it. If your plan is for police or anyone to always do the right thing, you don't have a plan. You have wishful thinking.
I don't disagree with any of that.
^Well Said...
Is it worth it for every teacher to carry a gun?
Definitely not. But I think it is worth it to allow those teachers that want to carry to do so.
I agree. If even a few of them carried, these guys would find places other than schools to shoot up.
People seem to ignore the lack of mass shootings in non-gun-free zones. The shooters know where to target.
I'd say that if you forbid firearms in your establishment, you are then liable for all security and if you fail to provide, then you are partially liable.
The problem in this case is not only did the cops fail to stop this guy they prevented parents who may have been armed, from trying to save their own kids. This in my mind crosses a line from cowardice to evil.
Yes, that is another issue. But that goes to the heart of the problem with gun control. Gun control is the government preventing you from defending yourself and your family. Whether it be the cops stopping parents here or the government making it illegal to carry a gun, it is the government preventing people from defending themselves in the name of control.
Government protects it's monopoly no matter how many 10 year olds have to pay the price.
I've also been hearing rumors that cops may have entered the building to retrieve their own kids, and then evacuated again. Not sure if it's true or not though.
If that's actually the case, as unlikely as I think it is, there should be public stonings for those that did.
That seems to be a fiction that was going around.
There is no way that is true. How would it even be possible? How do you get any kid out without killing the guy? It is all or nothing.
The shooter isn't everywhere at once, its possible to evacuate some people without having to engage.
But yes it does seem to be untrue. I'd delete my comment if I could.
I've often thought rather than hiring off duty cops to be SROs, why not train some parents to do it?
I can guarantee they won't be cowering outside during a shooting.
I like that idea
Not just parents, mothers. Women are stone cold killers when it comes to protecting children. Some dads might not have the nerve but I guarantee you no mother would hesitate.
Yup. My wife would have been there locked and loaded and I can guarantee you they would have had their hands full trying to keep her from going in. She's one the sweetest people on the planet. Everybody who meets her loves her and she's made every community we've lived in a little better off for her having been in it. But mess with her kids...you're going to lose.
Ed schools that provide certification for teachers also produce fragile, anxiety-ridden neurotics who need PTSD leave if they so much as SEE a gun IRL. Not much potential for school security there, I'm afraid.
How can more school cops help if we can't even trust them to do their jobs when they're needed most?
Wider perimeter?
Their job is to pay union dues, and more will always help.
Silly public.
The most important lesson my professors taught me is that I could win any debate by linking my opponents to Nazi Germany. Our progressive #Resistance allies have wisely applied this technique to guns.
Invented for Nazi infantrymen, further developed by the US military, the AR-15 was the Texas school shooter’s weapon of choice
The. AR. 15. Is. Literally. A. Nazi. Gun.
#LibertariansForGunSense
Wow. Ad hominem arguments against a gun design.
Ad machina argument?
I like it.
The preposition "ad" requires the accusative case, so it would be "ad machinam".
Thank you Latinus Correctamus. 🙂
Ah, the bane of all practitioners of ???????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????: the person who still remembers all their actual Latin. Ouch.
Ummm...that's "latinus simulatus". Or should have been. Man, double incompetence reveal. Awesome.
The ratio in the comments.
The gun did it.
Gunpowder invented by Chinese thus The. AR. 15. Is. Literally. A. Nazi. Gun that the Chinese made functional.
Trigger warning:
Beto O'Rourke interrupts Uvalde school shooting news conference, tells Gov. Abbott 'this is on you'
God, I know that there’s this whole 1st amendment thing, but having to even hear it mentioned that someone confronted the brave Greg Abbott on why he made it easier for gun nuts to buy a gun after *another* school shooting just makes me sick. This whole massacre at an elementary school thing is all about how I—as a gay Black man who is GOP Proud like Caitlin snd Milo— not about how these crisis actor parents feel. Grieving parents dealing with the death of their 9 year old daughter sure are some sick fucks, I’ll tell you.
You should probably just create some kind of a macro that just puts up random talking points for your posts. It would probably post things that make more sense. And it certainly couldn't make it any worse.
The sad part is that he even admitted that he couldn't do this as well as OBL. That makes this try-hard effort even more pathetic.
It is hilarious that a lefty is so mired in leftism that they don't realize "Trigger Warning" would never be used by a wingnut. This is like when some Hallmark Channel, screen writer tries writing sci-fi.
And he thinks we're all Alex Jones or something.
More Ali Salad with bad dressing.
When an idiot is free to speak then those within earshot see and hear that he is indeed an idiot. That is the beauty of the 1st Amendment.
Oklahoma governor signs near-total ban on abortion into law.
An odd juxtaposition with the story right above it.
You know what’s more important than race? Abortion.
Abortion is the most important thing.
No, skin color is the most important thing
ABORTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!
"you got your skin color in my abortion"
"you got your abortion into my skin color"
Guys your both right. Aborting all black babies is the goal
OK, I'd probably donate to PP if they put out a commercial with Margaret Sanger, "Like chocolate and fresh ground peanut butter... they just go together."
Hush, you! Didn't we tell you about that "quiet part out loud" thing??
You’ve got it exactly wrong, mister. Untrammeled access to an assault weapon for 18 yo maniacs is the most important thing. Get it right!
Only if they're taking out white leftists.
Mister? How dare you assume to gender me?
Abortions of the right skin color is the most important thing.
I find this compromise acceptable.
Abortions for some, and miniature american flags for others!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIgSTjzrmRg
President Joe Biden has signed an executive order limiting federal law enforcement's use of chokeholds and no-knock warrants, adopting new body-camera policies, establishing a national database to track police misconduct, and restricting the transfer of military equipment to police departments.
Lol, I doubt it.
Since there are no more chokeholds, I'm sure they won't shoot anyone, either.
“As much as some would like to believe that the president can solve America's policing woes with the stroke of a pen”
Libertarians for Dictatorship
The order also tells federal law enforcement to use deadly force only "when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person."
"I feared for my safety" has been codified.
"when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person."
Say her name. Ashli Babbitt.
Traitor
Chuck: do you believe the election was stolen from Trump?
You know what will make me feel better (and again this is all about me— not some dead kids)? I’ll tell you. I’d just like to employ the most accurate and deadly funny bit of mockery in US history. I’m going to do it. Ready?
LET’’S GO BRANDON!!! Take that you liberal Democrats!
Ugh. Just terrible.
We all know you're really "American Socia1ist." And we know you love Biden because his economy has been good for rich people like you. IIRC when you last updated us your portfolio had grown 30% since Biden's inauguration. How's it doing now?
#VoteDemocratToHelpTheRich
0/10
Wrong. Let’s Go Brandon is 10/10. When I think of all the people making 30k/yr that have internalized all the suffering of Dear Leader as their own I just tear up a little. God, those people are smart!
"When I think of all the people making 30k/yr"
See? You're obviously American Socia1ist because you share his fashionable contempt for the working class. And you refer to Drumpf as "Dear Leader" 99% of the time. And you deflect all criticism of high-poverty California by pointing to its wonderful $1,000-per-plate restaurants.
Please just go back to your original character. You lack the writing skills to create distinct voices.
#NotEveryoneCanPullOffAParodyAccount
If I were a socialist (and I’m not… I’m a gay Black man who is GOP Proud like Milo and Caitlin) I’d point out that it is practically the duty of a socialist to point out the inherent contradictions of such a predicament.
#Ever_Hear_Of_A_Guy_Named_Karl_Marx?
You're not a gay black man, you're a fat white pedophile, Shrike.
If the volume can go to 11, this asshole’s rating can be -1/10.
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Joe Biden
Lets go, Brandon.
(might change this to 'please go, brandon')
He already went. Time for a change.
It’s an evergreen.
Klobuchar antitrust bill is back, and still a mess.
But she went through it with a fine-tooth fork.
The U.S. birth rate bounced back slightly in 2021.
Lockdown sex.
Don't trust twitter. But you knew that.
The U.S. House of Representatives will vote soon on a bill that would give federal courts the power to issue "extreme risk protection orders" (ERPOs), "which temporarily confiscate guns from people..."
Let's see how badly the Dems want to lose seats.
Google, how many days to midterm elections?
Google won't tell you directly any more; I guess too many people have been asking.
But if you dive into the search results....
165 days
We in the transgender community deserve to live our lives free of mockery. And don't bother with that "If you don't like edgy comedians, just don't watch them" excuse. That's not good enough. Nobody should be allowed to laugh at us.
Netflix paid $40 million to platform Ricky Gervais’s new transphobic special
Cancel Netflix if you haven't already.
#LibertariansAgainstProblematicComedy
You are correct. There is nothing funny about your mental condition.
If you weren't trying to force sane people to agree men can be women, no one would pay attention at all.
So the behavior that needs to change is yours.
Is this you? Just wondering. Maybe you and I, a gay Black man who is GOP Proud, should get together.
Nick Fuentes caught looking at trans porn
Words and ideas are dangerous.
he word “chief” will no longer be used in reference to job titles in the San Francisco Unified School District in an effort, school officials said, to avoid the word’s connotation with Native Americans. A replacement term has not been determined.
Head Recall Justification
Today I learned that the Navajo word for chief is "chief".
BETTER NOT BE
Esteyopee is Blackfeet for STOP.
Heard that one living on the Blackfeet reservation.
Slightly more true is that their word for cattle translates as "slow elk."
The words “
chiefbrave hero” will no longer be used in reference to job titles inthe San Francisco Unified School DistrictUvalde police departments in an effort, school officials said, to avoid the word’s connotation with Native Americans.The correct term will be Chiefx.
Not indigenoux?
SUGGEST??!!
WTF?
You have video of the event. Either they did or they didn't.
Look at the damn video and use a declarative statement in the headline.
Or do you not even review your citations?
Declarations of fact are for (some) election results and the hidden motivations of (some) politicians, not video footage of recent events.
I know we live in an age where everyone is walking around with video cameras, but they often don’t tell the whole story. “Suggest” is appropriate without knowing exact context of that video.
Except if trump is involved.
Or fire extinguishers.
IT WAS AN ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY!!!!
Reminder. Mike is the guy who complains about having to watch videos and asks for citations describing the videos instead.
I have seen waaaay too many selectively edited photos and videos to buy into that one. A little uncertainty is justified.
I’d like to hear from whoever released the video.
They reviewed the tweets about the video.
How many lives could have been saved if the cops had acted sooner? So far Zero, i.e. so far from every story I've read about this not one attempts to demonstrate with simple facts married to a time line and logic, to prove that any lives could have been saved. All I read is that two cops were shot, and no more shooting took place and remaining kids left the building - eventually they went in and took down the shooter with no additional loss of life.
Then you miss the hundreds of stories about active shooters being stopped by people with guns. Granted those stories only show up in pro gun rights articles on pro gun rights mags and sights.
If your only source is msm then this is your view.
Just because progtards don't cove it doesn't mean it didn't happen
He's a cop, you can ignore him unless he's barreling towards you while driving drunk.
This narrative doesn't sound like it would sell any internet advertising AT ALL.
well if you ignore that another armed SRO did not do his job of stopping the killer at the door. his one fucking job. If people do their jobs we know lives can be saved. whet happened to if it just save one life. thousands died to prevent a few from dying of covid.
"How many lives could have been saved if the cops had acted sooner? So far Zero"
Sorry, that isn't good enough.
If you have an active shooter in a school, the SOP needs to be going in and stopping the killing. In this case, maybe the killing had already happened. Maybe it hadn't. The only way to be sure that the killing is stopped is to put down the shooter. So that needs to be the primary goal of the police.
Well, we know for sure that standing around outside the building for 40 minutes didn't save any kids.
It's a tried-and-true tactic. Wait long enough, and anybody will die. Some might quibble with the time frame, but...
"Kamala Harris had a plan for executive action on guns. Biden hasn’t adopted it"
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Kamala-Harris-had-a-plan-for-executive-action-on-17198830.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result
Her "plan' was to give congress a certain amount of time to "do something", and it they didn't, she (as POTUS) would "do something"!
"Something" like, uh, better background checks! or "something"!
It was campaign-trail grand-standing, but the Chron is hoping to make Harris something other than an irrelevancy. And failing.
Probably includes "passage of time" and "working together"
Always popular! "Reach across the aisle", too.
“Reach around” is also acceptable.
Only if she is fully strapped.
Wonder what the newly woke US Navy will come up with for a replacement rank? And what about the rankism of first class, second class, etc, or even the degrading "petty officer"?
Halo fans hardest hit.
Master Chief is now Master Beta.
Also NEVER TAKE THE FUCKING HELMET OFF.
'Massa' chief?
Can I suggest fag?
"Boss"? I know the guys manning the counters in the gas stations around here call me either "chief" or "boss".
chief (adj.)
c. 1300, "highest in rank or power; most important or prominent; supreme, best, placed above the rest," from Old French chief "chief, principal, first" (10c., Modern French chef), from Vulgar Latin *capum (also source of Spanish and Portuguese cabo, Italian capo, Provençal cap), from Latin caput "head," also "leader, guide, chief person; summit; capital city" (from PIE root *kaput- "head").
chief (n.)
c. 1300, "head, leader, captain; the principal or most important part of anything;" from Old French chief "leader, ruler, head" of something, "capital city" (10c., Modern French chef), from Vulgar Latin *capum, from Latin caput "head," also "leader, chief person; summit; capital city" (from PIE root *kaput- "head"). Meaning "head of a clan" is from 1570s; later extended to headmen of Native American tribes (by 1713; William Penn, 1680s, called them kings). Commander-in-chief is attested from 1660s.
Maybe we can use the term "freedom boss"
What is this NE guy supposed to do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5mEXhYDzA
And what's Hollywood gonna do about "Best Boy", eh?
"The word “chief” will no longer be used in reference to job titles in the San Francisco Unified School District in an effort, school officials said, to avoid the word’s connotation with Native Americans. A replacement term has not been determined."
Interesting. "Chief" is not a Native American word. It is from the Middle-English "chef," among other languages.
Perhaps they should also quit using the word "School Board Member," since it "connotes" someone with more than half a brain.
From Middle English chef, borrowed from Old French chief (“leader”), from Vulgar Latin capus (from which also captain, chieftain), from Latin caput (“head”) (English cap (“head covering”)), from Proto-Indo-European *kauput- (English head).
They settled on dickhead.
Sexist and also transphobic.
Try again.
I favor the ever popular 'asshole'.
That’s your opinion.
Ladydickhead?
The woke mob has been after the Kansas City Chiefs for years. According to the Gospel of woke any mention of Indians in any context anywhere. The funny thing about it is not only is "Chief" not a Indian word as you point out, the team was named the "Chiefs" because the mayor who convinced Lamar Hunt to move the team there was nicknamed "the Chief". The team is named after the freakin mayor.
There is really no peak retard. Whenever you think the woketards have hit peak retard, they prove you wrong. It is what they do. No one knows how but they do it. It is why they are the kings.
You think maybe the fact that the logo is an "arrowhead" may be at least part of the reason that folks tend to assume Chief = Indian? Just maybe?
It is not the woke who is making that connection. Change the logo to a KC Wolf fang and rename Arrowhead to the Lamar Hunt Stadium if that is going to be the defense you want to stand on.
Don't get me wrong, I find the whole banning names thing stupid. But, I guess The Commanders is what you get when you give a bunch of upper middle class ivy league white women with too much time on their hands access to Twitter.
*the Commies
You think maybe the fact that the logo is an "arrowhead" may be at least part of the reason that folks tend to assume Chief = Indian? Just maybe?
No.
Not at all.
Humans were using arrows and arrowheads for thousands of years before there WERE indians. Of ANY sort.
idiot.
Yeah, I'm sure they were thinking of prehistoric hunters in Europe when they came up with the logo.
Bronze age cultures used stone arrowheads too... Metal was really expensive until the middle ages.
I was going for things that could have happened before the Americas were populated.
You are suggesting that when people look at an origination called the Kansas City Chiefs with a stone arrowhead logo they are going to think of an "old town mayor" and a band of "stone age hunters".
I am sure that is exactly what the thousands of fans in the stadium are thinking every time they are doing the Tomahawk Chop... mock chopping up a wooly mammoth or something.
That was funny
Crusaders and what it are glorifying white warriors, chiefs and whatnot are degrading all bipoc. Logic.
You think maybe the fact that the logo is an "arrowhead" may be at least part of the reason that folks tend to assume Chief = Indian? Just maybe?
True. But what about the word Chief is derogatory? It was a title in a tribe. It is now a title in an administrative position. So what?
Methinks the goal is to make titles non-existent as we slide to a median of mediocrity AKA equity.
Agreed. Every corp in America uses Chief - CEO, CIO, COO, CFO, etc. Chief is not an Indian word
My point was simply that Chief + Arrowhead and people are going to think Indian.
If the team was called the Kansas City Flintstones + Arrowhead logo, and people might think prehistoric.
How is it with tobacco stains
^ 🙂
The arrowhead predates all known inhabitants of the americas by about 30000 years. 64000 for the arrow head and 30000 for oldest known human in the americas
The Redskins should have stayed as the "Washington Football Team" (if they didn't have the bawls to go with "Hawgs"), to remind people of woke stupidity.
We are now avoiding words with connotations, even if they aren’t negative connotations. That’s innovative!
Only those who truly understand can understand the level of micro offense in any statement.
He he. He said "member".
Lowell was a 'magnet' high school in SF; attendees had to pass some serious tests to be accepted. It was therefore too "white" (Asians now being "white"), so testing was suspended and acceptance was by lottery. Now, certain people are SHOCKED by one of the results:
"New data shows shift at Lowell High School: More students given failing grades after admissions change"
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Lowell-High-admissions-17196603.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result
Everyone gets a passing grade, problem solved.
(engage australian accent)
I see you've played "Woke that School" before!
(engage australian accent)
Oh great, now the whole rest of the comment section is all in Australian accents!
Right, mate!
Crikey!
Time for some shrimp on the barbi.
I am Thor. Son of Odin. As long as there is life in my breast... I... am... running out of things to say, are you ready?
Let's play "Neomarxist Education Scavenger Hunt!" Spot how many Critical Education buzzphrases you can find to get your prize! From Chalkbeat Colorado:
Incidentally, Denver Public School graduates have largely been the drizzling shits for decades, and this new curriculum focus certainly isn't going to help. Those kids won't be able to read for shit, but I guarantee they will be good little marxist footsoldiers.
Fuck if this was bingo I would have had it 3 ways on my card
That hurt my brain.
Sadly, gonna' hurt the brains of the kids, too.
you could convince a proggie that gravity doesnt exist and they'd jump off a cliff.
Who knew random lotteries were systematically racist?
We need to find a way to attract a better class of people to law enforcement (and the military).
Better temperament, better character, better judgment.
Better education, better training, equipment.
Better accountability, better management, better oversight.
Fewer petty authoritarians. Fewer officious jerks.
And, apparently, fewer all-talk cowards who focus on crowd control instead of trying to save children.
I know, let’s call them all racists! That’s sure to attract better people.
And murderers.
That already happens. Upscale, low-crime cities that pay well tend to attract the better law enforcement applicants.
Mostly because of the low crime aspect.
^ This will never happen.
https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/status/1529826845528625152?t=yLTkWAE9ifouTy91c3u89w&s=19
Those gas prices tho
[Pic]
How can the RV industry possibly survive $5 gas?
Go top end or go broke.
Pretty much the same as with contractors these days. Nobody wants ordinary the jobs anymore - try to find someone to pour a simple section of sidewalk.
Too be honest, I wouldn't be all that broken up about a lot of these obnoxious "van life" Millennial assholes deciding that paying that much for gas isn't worth the lifestyle anymore. I'm subscribed to a retiree YouTuber who basically lives out of a Scamp trailer with his dog, and he's talked about how gas prices have led him to camp out in BLM parks for the two-week maximum just to save money there, whereas he'd usually move to another park after 3-7 days. I've also seen some older RVers on YouTube hang it up and settle down recently, and while gas prices weren't the main reason, it was typically the straw that broke the camel's back.
'The shooter—Salvador Ramos—was inside the school for 40 minutes or more while police stood around outside, the Associated Press reports. "Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school," but the officers reportedly waited outside until a SWAT team was ready.'
Hey, reviews of diversity and equity policies and procedures take time.
Ten minutes to prepare a breaching assault seems reasonable.
Sadly, the end of the preparation time coincided with the beginning of the union mandated 30 minute break period.
And then the weekly "Safety Meeting" was convened
Holy shit, how long does it take a swat team to get ready? Are they going to the theater or something?
They must have chicks on that team, amirite?
Correct.
Based on the photo, all proper ratios of skin colors and (presumed) genitilia have been preserved.
The word "chief" will no longer be used in reference to job titles in the San Francisco Unified School District in an effort, school officials said, to avoid the word's connotation with Native Americans. A replacement term has not been determined.
these are an unserious people. You cannot take them seriously.
A replacement term has not been determined.
I believe they already settled on zampolit to replace commissar.
That's "Comrade Commissar", you kulak reactionary!
Si, Hefe.
+1 Amigo
+ 1 Amigo
+1 Amigo
+ a plethora of amigos
Not just famous, but IN-famous.
No other news media (nor any politicians) have reported these outrageous decisions by school security, police and/or sheriff to:
- Allow the armed shooter to kill many more children and teachers,
- Cordon off the area to protect the shooter from being hunted down, - Fail to acknowledge their own faults at press conferences since.
My favorite is Steve Kerr. Two years ago, he was in tears about the need to get police out of schools because it was the RACIST and kids were in danger around cops. This week he is in tears again about the poor defenseless children being murdered by the evil guns.
Hey Steve, how is that defund the Police thing working out? You fucking clown.
Instead of exposing (or criticizing) the hour long delay before police/sheriff went into the school to protect the not yet murdered children, the news media (both left wing and WSJ/Fox News) and the politicians (Dems and Republicans) have used this tragedy as an opportunity to promote their other policy and political goals.
Fox News is covering it right now.
> The shooter—Salvador Ramos—was inside the school for 40 minutes or more while police stood around outside... the officers reportedly waited outside until a SWAT team was ready.
Remember the union motto: "Not my job!"
Apparently applies to police unions as well. Fuck the police.
LOL
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1529563007424024578?t=XA2HIe5R1ModHsxh6U_wTA&s=19
Correction: Beto O’Rourke confronts Texas Gov. Abbott about gun control during Uvalde press conference https://t.co/rtRG3W6gh4
The original version of this tweet misspelled Beto O’Rourke’s name. It is Beto, not Beta
Is it?
The correction is disinformation.
Funny, I always thought the correct was spelling was s-a-n-t-o-r-u-m.
(https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Santorum)
Thanks for that while I’m eating lunch.
Saucy post indeed.
Good thing sqrlsy isn’t around today. He goes for that kind of thing. Eats it up. Literally.
Fact check for TIME: Beto's not his name, either. His name is Robert; "Beto" is the nickname his family's Mexican maid gave to him.
It bet she was an illegal.
Police departments have a zero tolerance policy for two things: non compliance, and anything that could harm officer safety.
So cops have two jobs. To use whatever force necessary to make people obey their slightest whims while not putting themselves in danger.
What does that mean if there is a school shooting? Wait outside until the danger is over while using force against anyone who doesn't want to wait.
They did their job as they were trained to do it.
Another week of the Second Coming of Jimmy Carter running American economic and diplomatic and security policy like the Germanwings pilot back in 2015.
Inflation up.
Gasoline up.
Food up.
Spittin Tobaccy up.
Matzos up.
Weekly diplomatic gaffes (Ukraine, Taiwan).
The only difference between Brandon and Jimmy Carter is that Brandon is completely venal, with cognitive challenges. Carter was just fucking inept and a micromanager.
Was Carter as corrupt?
Carter felt bad about occasionally fantasizing about other women. Joe fingered his assistants and took showers with his teenage daughter.
Nope.
Biden has set a very high bar.
(Notice no lefty is asking about any relationship between Putin still getting millions per day in oil sales, and the millions shoveled to the various Bidens)
Carter was only frightened by a bunny, not managed by one.
Unpopular truth: school shootings aren't a big deal.
They happen what once or twice every couple years? 20 or so kids die.
Tragic, for sure.
But something we should obsess over, something we should craft policy in response to?
No.
Our approach to this is akin to the covid reaction of the most neurotic.
Every year, 121 people are killed in school bus accidents, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).
How many school shootings have occurred at private schools? Asking for a friend.
There were a couple, back in colonial days, I can think of. Nothing recent.
42 deaths annually occur from falling off the toilet or young children drowning in them. VENDING MACHINES: Each year vending machines topple over and crush 13 people. WATER HEATERS: With incorrect temperature settings kill an average of 100 people per year.
Our approach to this is akin to the covid reaction of the most neurotic.
I feel a little bit the same about the response to the police. I don't like that they appear to have been in pursuit and then stopped at the school. At the same time, I am kinda surprised at the people who would normally oppose the police going full speed into a situation, guns blazing, without a care in the world for civilian casualties or a clue who any/all actual criminals and suspects are, foresaking all reason and cheering on parents and random strangers amped up to shoot someone going full speed into a situation without any clue as to who's a civilian and who's a suspect.
Indeed
Damn it, accidental flag.
Copy-paste time
mad.casual
May.26.2022 at 12:14 pm
Mute User
Our approach to this is akin to the covid reaction of the most neurotic.
I feel a little bit the same about the response to the police. I don't like that they appear to have been in pursuit and then stopped at the school. At the same time, I am kinda surprised at the people who would normally oppose the police going full speed into a situation, guns blazing, without a care in the world for civilian casualties or a clue who any/all actual criminals and suspects are, foresaking all reason and cheering on parents and random strangers amped up to shoot someone going full speed into a situation without any clue as to who's a civilian and who's a suspect.
It only flags it for you, buddy. Everybody else can still see it.
Flag Comment is the Reason reader's analog to "see no evil".
With the midterms upon us, now is the time for our politicians to take a brave stand against the gun control/manufacture lobby. We need a full court press on two fronts:
1. Abolish the second amendment
2. Disarm the American people
#SupportThisOrYoureKillingChildren
lol
In these troubled times, there is no distinction between sarcasm and prophecy.
OBL found a friend.
>>As much as some would like to believe that the president can solve America's policing woes
the rest of us know the daily Junior Jumble remains outside his reach.
"A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key,"
This was a 1-story building. They couldn't fire through a window?
Turns out, hardening a bunch of schools and then putting a bunch of chumps in charge of guarding them makes it really hard to breach them should someone get inside.
I don't mean to defend the cops too vociferously and absolutely understand and agree with the impetus to wade in to shoot the guy and save any kids, including your own. At the same time, unless you were part of the pursuit, or in the room when Ramos came in, *you* have no clue who you're actually supposed to be shooting and the cops letting other people wade into the scene with/without weapons doesn't help that.
You shoot the guy with the rifle. It’s not hard.
Just to be clear, are you saying you knew Ramos had a rifle before he went into the school?
Because, otherwise, your instructions would apply just as well to the three men pictured above with 'SHERIFF' emblazoned across their chest.
And, while I understand not liking the police, I don't exactly see shooting officers dead while Ramos kills children as being conducive to the desired outcome.
Now you're being silly.
Yes, he is. Shooting those officers dead would have been conducive to the desired outcome.
No, no, no. They wanted the shooter dead and the kids saved.
Shooting those officers dead should have been conducive to a whole OTHER desired outcome.
Because trained cops and even elite soldiers in firefights never shoot each other accidentally or because you think a group of random citizens some with the IQ of CA residents or worse, Chuck P.'s IQ, would be better trained, equipped, and generally more coherent to avoid mishaps in a gun fight?
Spoken like a miserable incel who never had kids. I would risk my life for mine in a heartbeat.
An unarmed Chris Mintz, who stood up to the piece of shit that attacked Umpqua Community College took 5 rounds and lived. There is no need to shoot at kids, just providing enough of a diversion saves lives. Nobody else was shot after Mintz.
Was Mintz at the scene in TX? Or are you trying to borrow some of his valor to justify your strategy?
Look it up, asshat. Even unarmed resistance saves lives. Cowering in fear costs lives.
Borrowed valor? You wouldn't dare say that to my face, you cowardly cunt.
Borrowed valor? You wouldn't dare say that to my face, you cowardly cunt.
Pretty sure I just did.
He shot at cops before he went in (as far as I know at this point). They should have been able to identify him OK.
The cops who got shot at, sure. The randos who showed up after he'd barricaded himself inside, no.
Ya, agree here. There is clear info that there is a shooter with a rifle in the school, who was just in a shoot out with police. You go in and shoot the guy with the rifle.
I am happy to sit back and let the police with vests and long guns go in, but if they aren't going to then fuck em. Those parents should have been allowed to try and save their kids.
There is clear info that there is a shooter with a rifle in the school, who was just in a shoot out with police. You go in and shoot the guy with the rifle.
Because you're so sure that police have the right address, never mistake umbrellas or Xbox controllers for guns or, in Texas, no one *else* with a rifle is on the other side of the building thinking the exact same thing you are?
I understand being a 0th responder at the scene when SHTF. I understand being a 1st responder and making mistakes while taking action or sorting your shit out or whatever. I don't understand the arm-chairing that the rag-tag team of 3rd responders would've had their shit more together and been more successful despite being less directly (in the sense of actions, not relations) involved.
OK, you're in a car accident with your kid and the paramedics are taking too long to get there, yes, do CPR. Once the paramedics are there, your lack of AED and extensive CPR training that you sorta recall from TV once, (not to mention two hands vs. 4, 6... 8 bandages, saline, etc., etc.) isn't going to compare to what they can do and even if you think they're taking too long to save your kid's life, knocking them out of the way isn't doing you, them, or your kid any favors.
There was a shootout with the guy outside the school, he wounded two cops, then he went in the school. If the door was locked, perhaps he may have been delayed getting in long enough to be stopped.
No excuse for leaving him inside with a weapon for 40 minutes. Total fail.
I agree that a 40 min. response time is unacceptable. I don't agree that random people off the street going in is better.
Lets assume you successfully locate and shoot Ramos, what's impromptu posse protocol? Do you pick up his rifle to disarm him and hope some other vigilante behind you hasn't walked into the building thinking "Shoot the guy with the rifle"? Shoot him once assuming he should stand trial and leave the weapon on the ground next to him for him or someone else to pick up? Unload your weapon into his corpse and hope the next vigilante around the corner doesn't see you unloading your weapon into a body and react the way you would expect them to in the context of a school shooting? Does everyone in your posse even know what Ramos looks like or are you all amped up and ready to blast anyone who happens to have a rifle in their hands?
Good to know you would be in the parking pontificating on all the possibilities while your kids are in the school getting shot at.
Good to know you would be in the parking pontificating on all the possibilities while your kids are in the school getting shot at.
Do you think calling me a coward makes you smarter or braver? Do you think it scares me? Do you think it validates your overly-optimistic tacticool "They should've let the mall ninjas handle it" bullshit? Because it tells me how unreasonably scared you are that this could happened to you.
I'm not in the parking lot and that's explicitly my point. If the parents were in the parking lot when the shooting started and went in guns blazing, more power to them. Killed Ramos without the loss of a single other life? Absolute heroes. No questions asked. Same goes for any cop who did the same. Unfortunately, *none* of them were there or did that and, far more often than not, that's the Hollywood outcome.
As it stands, it appears that even the SWAT team had to call someone to unlock doors for them. Does your motley crew of vigilantes have a trained and equipped breacher on it or did you just send in a bunch of chumps that can't do much more than the police did and who the already slow police are going to have to exfil or work around.
Don't worry, I'm sure the cops you've impugned over the years for behaving the way you suggest, full-tilt, best of intentions, nothing else matters, will have your back when you say "But it's different when *these* civilians do it!"
Their bodies, their choice to defend their clumps of cells. Fuckin a
I don't agree that random people off the street going in is better.
Except they were not random people off the street. They were parents with kids inside.
Get a fucking clue. Once you know they are going to crash the plane, you rush the cockpit. The police were derelict and then actually impeded rescue. They should be liable, but QI will protect them from their own stupidity.
Except they were not random people off the street. They were parents with kids inside.
I didn't gain any tactical expertise by becoming a parent. Considering you have to borrow some of Chris Mintz' valor to defend your apparently universally applicable "Just absorb bullets until the problem goes away" strategy above, you didn't gain any tactical expertise simply by becoming a parent either.
Once you know they are going to crash the plane, you rush the cockpit.
Wow you really are snatching valor left and right to support your foolhardiness here. As I've mentioned before, the parents showing up halfway through weren't like the 9/11 passengers who were themselves on the scene and directly involved. Just because you saw Kurt Russell and Steven Seagal board a plane full of hostages in a movie once doesn't mean it's a good idea for every Jack Burton and anyone who plays a SEAL on TV to go wade into any/every gun fight.
HAHAHA!
Did I hit a nerve with the childless incel comment? You go right ahead and go down on the bad guys while I rescue my family, bitch.
Did I hit a nerve with the childless incel comment?
No. You hit a nerve invoking the bravery of others to defend your armchair stupidity.
"OK, you're in a car accident with your kid and the paramedics are taking too long to get there, yes, do CPR. Once the paramedics are there..."
Except in the more apt analogy the paramedics got there, and while my kid was actively in cardiac arrest they were standing around talking about whether they should use the AED or put manual pads on him, and then they get into a debate about if they should do 1 or 2 provider CPR and whether or not they should just do compressions or try BMV as well...and then 30 minutes later they start CPR. Oh also, I happen to have an AED in my car and know how to use it but they told me to stand aside and let the pros handle it.
And, in good turn with aptness of the analogy, you weren't actually there when the accident took place, haven't seen your kid to know if he's in cardiac arrest or not, or if your kid had other passengers in the car some of whom may need AEDs, some of whom are bleeding out and may need fluids, some of whom may need something entirely different and the AED you keep in your trunk means precisely dick.
Look, we know because you keep a gun in your trunk that it makes you Superman sitting in your arm chair, able to solve every problem at the crack of a whip just like every cop who rides around with a gun on their hip and goes home safe at night to their arm chair. But, and I know this is hard to grasp, that's not reality.
"and the AED you keep in your trunk means precisely dick"
Well in this scenario, in fact, it would absolutely would have meant more than dick, being that an AED was what solved the problem. Turns out the solution to an active shooter, murdering children without any resistance, is ACTUAL resistance with a firearm as that is what tends to resolve the problem almost all the time.
There is no appropriate scenario where knowing this is going on for 30+ minutes is acceptable. My beef is that they simultaneously chose not to act and stopped parents from acting as well. This is evil.
Well in this scenario, in fact, it would absolutely would have meant more than dick, being that an AED was what solved the problem.
You mean the AED in the hands of the trained professional? Or are you off in some mythical realm where a parent with an AED solved the problem before Ramos even shot his grandma?
"in the hands of the trained professional? "
Turns out in the hands of anyone distracting the shooter, and turning his attention to defending himself rather than shooting more kids, is a better option than standing around for 45 minutes waiting on another team. From a pure game theory perspective you can argue the confounding variables you mention, but you really still have no argument that supports "wait for 45 minutes while the shooter kills my kid because the cops said so". It is a loss, a forfeit, game over. Action with risks and potential consequences or inaction and almost certain consequences.
Mrs Casual is in the building and you think her to be under threat of death with no way of defending herself. Theoretical you has a gun and knows to use it. How long of watching the cops stand around do you tolerate? 1 Minute? Of course. 5 minutes maybe...15 minutes... Gunfire coming heard inside building...30 minutes? Whats your cutoff? Fuck it she had a good run, leave it to the professionals?
From a pure game theory perspective you can argue the confounding variables you mention, but you really still have no argument that supports "wait for 45 minutes while the shooter kills my kid because the cops said so".
No theory involved. Facts on the ground were that the cops had to get building and maintenance to unlock a door for them. Are you saying the cops should've done a dynamic entry? That parents/random civilians are better equipped to do that? You've seen the civilian gear on the scene and know that they were better equipped more able or are you just gaming the facts because you want it to be true, because parents, kids, and feels?
Mrs Casual is in the building and you think her to be under threat of death with no way of defending herself.
Your facts are incorrect. Mrs. Casual isn't in a building, unarmed, under threat. If Mrs. Casual were trapped in a building under threat, I would advise anyone against going in to rescue her without her knowledge. If you decided to anyway, I'd consider you both roughly equally guilty of whatever the outcome was.
You're just making it obvious you don't know dick about what actually happened and are incapable of gaming the potential outcomes without bias and are just invoking your feels about parents to armchair your way to imaginary Super Bowl glory.
"Your facts are incorrect. Mrs. Casual isn't in a building, unarmed, under threat. If Mrs. Casual were trapped in a building under threat, I would advise anyone against going in to rescue her without her knowledge."
The use of Mrs Casual wasn't to talk about someone else or myself risking their ass to save her it was to question you about your threshold to taking some kind of action, if you would at all, in a scenario where one of your most beloved people is about to die. Im starting to think you would probably just think it over long and hard in the parking lot and then say "meh" its in (god, allah, spaghetti monster's) hands now, fuck it.
Of course I was using her because the scenario I am defending is allowing PARENTS to go in and do something to rescue their children and what threshold of waiting for police is appropriate when their loved one is at risk. No one is talking about random joes that have no connection to the incident, as you keep bringing up. Im not sure if you are being purposefully obtuse or you are just not great at tracking analogies, but it seems you are on the struggle bus today. We can just stick with the actual events if that will help you.
Of course I was using her because the scenario I am defending is allowing PARENTS to go in and do something to rescue their children and what threshold of waiting for police is appropriate when their loved one is at risk. No one is talking about random joes that have no connection to the incident, as you keep bringing up.
I didn't bring up Mrs. Casual, you did. And you didn't answer my question. Right now, before going in without informing Mrs. Casual, I've effectively granted you QI. She shoots you, it's your fault. You shoot her or you shoot each other I'm willing to chalk it up to friendly fire/fog of war. Are you willing to grant me, a random civilian, the same?
Weird coincidence that you mention random Joes. Your kid is trapped in a classroom next to Hunter Biden. Papa "Fire two shotgun blasts through the door" Biden shows up ready to go hot. As a cop, do you send him in? As a parent do you march in behind him or with him on your 6? Are you willing to grant *him* QI/friendly fire/fog of war amnesty up front?
it was to question you about your threshold to taking some kind of action, if you would at all, in a scenario where one of your most beloved people is about to die.
This is an ad hominem. I wasn't there and neither were you.
I've already talked with my kids about active shooters. I don't have to dignify questions about my life or theirs to anyone but them. Since neither one of us was there the answer either was is irrelevant and we're trading wishes for bullshit and you're bringing plenty of the latter.
The cops had multiple chances to engage with the guy before he killed kids and failed. They failed and then kids died. There is no analogy necessary. They did not have to risk shooting kids, because they stayed outside.
They were cowards, and now the whole country knows that they are cowards. I hope they are shunned by the public and their families and commit suicide.
"The cop who Ramos shot was a coward for drawing his fire. I hope he is shunned by the public and his family and commits suicide." - Chuck P.
Right on, Chuck! Keep convincing us of you nigh-omnipotent situational awareness and infallible snap decision making well more than a day after the facts are widely known!
You are such a rotten piece of shit to turn my argument 180.
Go to hell, you impotent fuckwit.
Go to hell, you impotent fuckwit.
Pretty rattled for only being engaged in an internet firefight.
The thing is, it wasn't even hardened; the guy waltzed in with a gun and started shooting kids. The exurban schools that our oldest went to actually locked the doors after the last bell rang, and you had to call in to the office to get buzzed in. If you weren't a parent or designated relative there to pick up the kid, tough shit, you're not getting in. One of them even had a sign out front saying that they allowed teachers to conceal carry on campus, so any potential school shooter was going to have to think twice about trying to storm the building.
"actually locked the doors after the last bell rang"
"sign out front saying that they allowed teachers to conceal carry on campus"
Congrats red rocks, you solved school shootings right there. I mean that in all seriousness
The thing is, it wasn't even hardened;
It is a bit of an oxymoron: no structure guarded by soft-brained morons can be adequately hardened without addressing the morons.
This whole incident couldn't be more of an advertisement for getting democrats and their policies gone.
Fucked up kid with mental health issues and gender dysphoria (but I repeat myself) who went to a public school, gun-free zone, and the only agents of the benevolent state who were fucking there did nothing but keep parents from trying to help. And the only thing dems want to do in response is to confiscate your guns so you are officially 100% helpless and reliant on said staties. But dont take my word for it, take Beta Orourkes.
If this doesn't scream at you to get your kids out of public school, away from any democrat-policy controlled area, and make sure you are well armed and trained, I dont know what does.
Australia gave up their guns and look what their staties did with Covid camps
Fucked up kid with mental health issues and gender dysphoria (but I repeat myself
The gender dysphoria part isn't true; that's a separate person who happened to look like the guy. The tranny continued posting on his own account after Ramos was killed.
ahh gotcha. I stand partially corrected
Apparantly a different person, but his ex-friends stated he was bullied for posing with makeup on - as well as being a general psycho nicknamed "School Shooter" by other kids.
Red flags mean nothing.
"In October 2017 Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said that 51,000 unregistered firearms were surrendered during the three-month amnesty, of the previous estimate of 260,000 unregistered guns"
Not exactly giving up their guns.
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a minute - but the cops were in a no-win situation. If they had rushed in with guns drawn and ended up killing the shooter, how many people would have immediately blamed the police for any deaths? They would have been blamed for escalating the situation unnecessarily. Did they follow the rules of engagement for this situation? If they did, should they have gone rogue, knowing they would be blamed for the deaths no matter what happened? Three years ago they may have gone in anyway, expecting their superiors and politicians to have their backs. In the current climate, who knows?
No, they fucked it all up.
No excuses.
Just to play Devil's Advocate for a minute - but the cops were in a no-win situation. If they had rushed in with guns drawn and ended up killing the shooter, how many people would have immediately blamed the police for any deaths?
Like I said above, that particular question was placed to the side after Columbine. SOP for most police departments now is to get the fuck in there and stop the shooter as fast as possible.
^This is a/the decent argument. Procedure says they should go in and neutralize the threat ASAP, they should've gone in and neutralized the threat ASAP. The argument about "They should've allowed randos off the street to go in." is spurious emoting.
Not randos off the street, parents of the kids, in a scenario where officers have openly stated they arent going in.
I guess a few questions for you:
Do you have kids?
Do you carry and know how to use a firearm?
If the above are "yes", and your kid is in a school that is actively being shot up, and the cops are literally doing nothing about it, do you feel the duty to act? I am now genuinely curious if you would say, "nah its cool, the professionals got this"
Not randos off the street, parents of the kids, in a scenario where officers have openly stated they arent going in.
Yes I have kids.
Yes I know how to carry and use a firearm.
Now, a few questions for you:
When you had kids, did you get explicit training on how to save them from a gunman above and beyond what the random person gets specifically from the birthing?
Do you know the rules of firearm safety? Specifically the ones about being aware of your target and not pointing a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy?
When you say "the cops are literally doing nothing"? Where do you think that "fact" came from? Reason Magazine? The Media? Were you at the scene, just outside the barricaded door witnessing a hallway devoid of any cops?
How about this, your kid is trapped by a gunman and I go in and start shooting, you'll go ahead and forgive me in advance regardless of the outcome because I tried, right? I warned you about Mrs. Casual above and am willing to chalk you two shooting each other up to friendly fire. You're willing to do the same with your kid for me, right?
I would have used my krav maga on him and then just gone full on Gracie Jiu Jitsu or alternatively my bare knuckle boxing skills to subdue.
All the LatinX hotties would want a part of this real man because they know there would be good lovin' that night
"how many people would have immediately blamed the police for any deaths? They would have been blamed for escalating the situation unnecessarily."
1) Who gives a fuck whether people would later say stupid shit. This isn't a Hostage situation. We have known that since Columbine. It is an active shooter, and the right thing to do is to intervene to stop it.
2) Everybody recognizes this- it has been THE SOP since Columbine. So if there are people still complaining about that SOP if properly followed, the vast amount of America will tell them to shut up.
There are children being executed while they force parents to NOT save them.
No justification possible for this inaction.
No justification possible for this inaction.
Unless the kids were already dead and you were sending parents in to bang on a locked door.
Unless Ramos had the kids barricading the door and you were sending trigger-happy parents in to blast the door off it's hinges.
Plenty of justification. Not enough justifications to dispel the wishful thinking of armchair John Rambos (who himself got beat up and let his adopted kid die) on the internet. No amount of justifications to fix that.
What if the cops had gone in earlier, had a gunfight with the shooter and a kid or two was shot in the process? The same people throwing blame on the police for "not acting sooner" would have blamed the police for "not showing restraint".
Unfortunately, people are using this to grind whatever axe or axes they have.
Except that right and left wing news media and politicians have been going to great lengths to deceitfully blame guns, the NRA, social media, insufficient school security, the lack of Christianity and each other for this violent act by a fatherless teen.
But nobody wants to acknowledge that fatherlessness as the leading cause of crime in America, or that the police and sheriff's 45 minute delay resulted in the death of many children.
don't just do something! stand there!
Not taking sides but a “45 minute delay” would certainly provide time to shoot more than 19. Had the shooting stopped before this delay? Does it matter? I don’t know.
Upon further review, I’m not seeing much room for nuance here. If the shooting had stopped for several minutes the cops need to get the fuck in there to help the wounded. If the shooting was continuous (or sporadic), the cops need to get the fuck in there and kill this asshole.
Yeah, 45 minutes to come up with a plan is fucked up.
"The same people throwing blame on the police for "not acting sooner" would have blamed the police for "not showing restraint"."
This is conjecture on your part. When you have an active shooter situation, everyone with a brain recognizes that 1) the imperative is to stop the shooter and that 2) any collateral deaths will be less than the deaths that would have occurred otherwise.
Mind you, Officers are ostensibly trained to deal with these situations. Should they be held accountable if they act recklessly and shoot blind into a class room? Absolutely. But if they are showing the appropriate restraint in this fluid situation, most people will support them.
I would like to know what country you live in, because it isn't the US. One side believes the police can do no right, while the other that the police can do no wrong.
A talking point floating around Twitter (yeah yeah, I know, "Twitter isn't real life")-- in between the usual "we need gun reform!" talking point-- is that the shooting is a prime example of why the police should be defunded.
If you don't see that the "police can do no right" crowd are the loudest ones in blaming the police for "not doing something/more", or if you also believe that same crowd would turn around praise the police should they have acted quickly and it gone south, then I don't know what to tell you.
Fuck off and die, troll.
Or:
Eat shit and die. troll.
“One side believes the police can do no right, while the other that the police can do no wrong.
A talking point floating around Twitter (yeah yeah, I know, "Twitter isn't real life")”
If you believe all Americans really fall under one of those two extremes, then I’m not sure you really are aware that Twitter isn’t real life.
If you want to take my post as an 100% accurate representation of the populace as a whole, that's on you. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, much like when someone speaks of "left vs right".
In any incident regarding a cop, the police, ICE/an immigration official, etc., you already know what side which Americans will take baed on their political affiliation/voting habits, since policing has become an extreme political issue.
Whether the cops went it early, later or not at all, people who find fault with the cops would... find fault with the cops, regardless of their actions or any outcome. That this is seemingly contested is rather odd.
Both you know and I know that had the cops gone in early and some kid dies, we'd be seeing nonstop headlines about how the police endangered kid's lives or whatnot. ENB would likely herself be apoplectic, and write an article questioning why the cops did not show more caution.
You’re using your statement as an excuse for cops to let children continue to be murdered. How certain pundits who are going to criticize them anyway react shouldn’t have any determination on their actions. The fact that you think it should tells me you put too much stock in such things. Do you base important decisions on how a bunch of assholes are going to react?
“ENB would likely herself be apoplectic, and write an article questioning why the cops did not show more caution.”
I’m all for criticizing ENB for all sorts of reasons, I do it frequently, but this is a completely unjustified criticism with no basis.
The important part is to spare the feelings of the put-upon cops. They're the real victims. If you disagree, you're probably a BLM terrorist.
No. I'm pointing out that the cops are in a lose/lose situation, whereas any choice made with a less than perfect outcome would be criticized.
What's the point in comparing a known outcome to a possible, unknown outcome? There is simply no way for us to know if the situation would have turned out better or worse if the cops, for example, deciding to rush the school.
I simply refuse to moralize after the fact from the comfort of my bed.
"What if the cops had gone in earlier, had a gunfight with the shooter and a kid or two was shot in the process?"
Or what if they went in earlier and shot the gunman?
"Or what if they went in earlier and shot the gunman?"
Hindsight is 20/20.
Hindsight is 20/20.
That was before the internet. Now hindsight is 500 mi./20 ft. before the shooting takes place for anyone who shows up at any crime scene even after the perp has barricaded himself in, except the police, have it.
The "homeschool your kids" libertarians were cowards for dragging their feet before this shooting took place.
Someone could have been killed!
long live Ray Liotta
Well shortly dead ray liotta
You can't make this shit up. So now it's the Police's fault. Any excuse to dump on the cops. I've seen countless articles on Reason about getting the police out of the schools, about how the police are too aggressive and about eliminating SWAT teams. Ok. Suppose the police would have rushed the school. Reason would be blaming them if anybody got hurt of killed in the assault. So would TRIAL LAWYERS. There's the problem with arming teachers or allowing parents to stand guard. If anything were to happen the TRIAL LAWYERS win. Same thing with the cops. Watch there will be lawsuits about the Police taking too long to go in. If they had gone in then there would be lawsuits because they didn't wait.
No one said it's the police's fault. Only that they could have done more.
Sorry, but if police want to be seen as heroes and protectors of the public, they need to take some risks on themselves. I can't say I would have done any different. But I didn't sign up to be a cop.
If the police kept parents from storming the building and attacking the gunman, then yes, it's the police fault.
They might be cowards, but they don't need to prevent others from trying to save chidlren
OK, you say it's police's fault. But what is "it"? The attack is the attackers fault. I fault the police for their inaction. But the incident isn't their fault.
It's all libertarians except maybe Thomas Massie's fault for dragging their feet and not doing more to end public education before this tragedy took place.
Also, I'm not just blindly emoting and spraying blame around, even at compatriots, because something I don't like but didn't happen to me directly took place.
"You can't make this shit up. So now it's the Police's fault."
You can't make this shit up; tolling asshole invents strawman!
If only it were so simple. I don't know how the police handled this situation, but can you imagine the self-righteous indignation and outrage if there was a shootout and a police bullet killed a student or two?
So there's indignation either way. If they had stopped it at a total of 4 kids dead, even if 2 were shot by police, wouldn't that be an objectively better outcome?
It's pretty clear there was some issue with the door that simply blasting it wouldn't solve, unless you somehow hold the belief that police are otherwise ready to mash the go button at the drop of a hat except when they get to shoot a harmless door.
Would we all feel better if the civvies went in and killed two kids blasting the door off the hinges?
The facts on the ground don't clearly support a 40 min. delay nor do they support a vigilante free-for-all.
One useful lesson might be to train and deputize a parent, or any that want to, who lives 5 min. away from the school. If you were the type of administrative paranoiac bent on doing *something* about a school shooter combined with a laggy SWAT response.
“It's pretty clear there was some issue with the door that simply blasting it wouldn't solve”
Cite?
I don't know. On the TV show SWAT, Hondo gets his team in action quickly.
He doesn't wait around.
Yeah, so it's best to wait for all the children in the classroom to be killed. That way, no collateral damage!
The trolls are out in force.
"If only it were so simple."
If only you had a brain-cell.
Someone might have got killed!
Just tell them that "omg there's a cop inside the building and they're threatening to shoot him!"
Or a box of donuts, and the shooter was threatening to eat all the donuts.
In short, if a criminal was holding some cops hostage and threatening to kill them, how long would the other cops have waited before going in?
Pussies with guns.
Fight like a man
Die like a man.
The MAN's name is Jacob Albarado. He was (is) an off-duty US Customs and Border Protection agent. He rushed into Robb Elementary School with his barber’s shotgun after sneaking past the donut eaters and rescued dozens of children and his daughter after his wife texted him that there was an active shooter.
Also, a MOM jumped a fence and managed to get into the school and get her daughters out. That's all I know about that.
Blocking parents from reaching their kids and waiting for a SWAT team when an active shooter is executing children for a fucking hour is unbelievably wrong. They had just about every cop in town with their backs to the actual crime.
If the shooter was picking people off, he is exposed to a sniper. If he's holed up, he's not going to shoot you approaching.
But when you do nothing, a psychotic kid gets to massacre a classroom at will. I don't know what the right solution is, but any human should readily see how wrong theirs was.
Blocking parents from reaching their kids and waiting for a SWAT team when an active shooter is executing children for a fucking hour is unbelievably wrong.
^
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>>>>>>>>>> https://brilliantfuture01.blogspot.com/
Better me than my kid...
Keep in mind sarc is a divorced alcoholic who lives in a small town, and has had numerous run-ins with his local police that probably all know him by name. His opinion of police is pretty jaded.
Okay, how 'bout we just hate them for that coward in Florida getting job, back pay and pension standing back 100%?
I stopped donating to cop charities after 2020. There's "reform" that's needed, involving qualified immunity and the 'thin blue line' in general. Civil Asset Forfeiture needs to end except in cases where there's clear evidence of connection between the money and an actual charged crime.
And in a world of good faith actors, some of that BLM donation/protection/virtuebating money might have gone for training to be given or mandated to improve policing in high-crime neighborhoods. That didn't happen, any more than increased funding improves inner city schools.