Arizona Lawmakers Seek Religious Compromise in LGBT Antidiscrimination Bill
H.B. 2802 would expand discrimination protections but would carve out religious institutions.

A new bill in Arizona would outlaw some discrimination against gay and transgender people, but includes an important compromise that would exempt churches and religious organizations.
The bill, H.B. 2802, introduced by Rep. Amish Shah (D–Phoenix) and House Speaker Rusty Bowers (R–Mesa) would extend housing and public accommodations discrimination protections to gay and transgender people. Places of worship, religious schools, and food preparation facilities supervised by religious leaders to comply with various dietary requirements are exempt.
The bill also bans conversion therapy for minors to attempt to "cure" them of being gay or trans, but only covers licensed health providers and specifically exempts members of the clergy and parents.
The proposal is similar to a bill passed in Utah in 2015 often referred to as the "Utah Compromise." Leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints publicly supported the bill and helped pass it.
It's also similar to a federal bill called the "Fairness for All Act" that would expand federal anti-discrimination laws to include gays and transgender while still carving out exemptions for churches and people with strongly held religious beliefs.
"This historic measure is the product of years of thoughtful dialogue between leading Arizona LGBTQ organizations, business leaders and communities of faith to support a bill aimed at updating the state's non-discrimination law while also preserving religious freedom," notes a press release by Equality Arizona, an LGBT political nonprofit group that supports the bill. Similar compromise anti-discrimination ordinances have been passed in Arizona cities like Mesa and Scottsdale.
The state of popular culture today, however, is not one of compromise. The Deseret News in 2020 noted that other states had not followed Utah's lead to attempt to add LGBT folks to existing discrimination laws while protecting a certain level of religious liberty. The Fairness for All Act has gotten nowhere federally as Democrats have lined up behind the Equality Act, a much more expansive (and divisive) law that would restrict exemptions for religious citizens and institutions.
Meanwhile, in some red state legislatures, a full LGBT backlash is underway. Florida's Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis has declared support for a bill that would significantly censor how educators are allowed to even discuss LGBT issues in schools (and also, incidentally, gives parents and lawyers an avenue to file nuisance suits to try cash in on the culture war).
The decision by Shah and Bowers to team up for a compromise is worth noting, even though H.B. 2802 is still very much a "bake them the wedding cake" bill that does not offer exemptions for small business owners who may have religious objections to providing goods and services for gay weddings. And because the Supreme Court declined to actually decide whether the act of making a wedding cake counts as speech under the First Amendment—and thus whether public accommodation law compels firing up the oven—expect to see more compromises that allow some people to opt out of anti-discrimination, but not others, even when both groups seek exemptions for the exact same reason.
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Will this cause protesters to clog up the Chik-fil-A drive through lines again?
>>but would carve out religious institutions.
discrimination okay if phantasm
The issue is they want to make discrimination completely illegal but the religious got a lock on the 1st.
A better bill would be outlawing starvation and electrocution as therapies. Not to say what you can and cannot therapize away. However, those seeking conversion therapy for other desires (like food) may actually LIKE electrocution for it (Apparently an accepted therapy for anorexia).
It’s ok to do it to people with food problems, but not people that are gay.
can't imagine shocking away my love for chicks.
But chemical castration and hormones therapy is perfectly allowable for some reason. Ignore the high incidence of conversion regret.
How does banning conversion therapy fit into this supposed medical autonomy? Why can't somebody chose to undergo it?
Obviously it doesn't. But surgically mutilating people to look like the opposite sex? Totally OK.
Where is our spokeswoman with a Hijab to throw this whole debate into mass confusion?
Reason's failure to mention that freedom of association covers racist associations in the same way freedom pf speech and press cover racist speech and press says volumes about Reason's understanding of libertarian rights.
Well, there is the part about how the Supreme Court has swept freedom of association under the porch door mat. Sometimes you have to report what is, not what was or should be.
Freedom of association has been limited (by the Civil Rights Act) in certain specific ways, such as preventing discrimination against racial and religious minorities or women or the disabled.
Generally it refers to the freedom of people to collectivize, such as by forming trade unions, which I'm sure you've never supported using government force to suppress.
So all you're arguing in favor of is re-permitting discrimination in housing and public accommodations. Why would that be good?
The Florida bill will only restrict teachers in primary schools from leading group discussions or class discussions related to sexuality and gender, but allow teachers to speak in private to kids seeking counseling.
Government should not be able to discriminate.
Free citizens should be able to discriminate in any way they see fit.
while still carving out exemptions for churches and people with strongly held religious beliefs
Who decides whether the belief is strongly held? For that matter, where does the 1A require that it be strongly held?
^this
I've always thought that religions shouldn't NEED exemptions, that anything it would make any sense to let somebody do for religious reasons you should just let people do for any reason whatsoever.
The very fact religions need exemptions is a sign of how unfree we really are.
The problem with your idea is defining the limits between your personal beliefs and the public's right to service. How would you feel if your check-out clerk refused to ring up any of the meat products you had in the cart because they were a vegetarian?
So, we have to set up some rules. This decided this back when the country decided that you could not have separate bathrooms for blacks. So, we need to set a minimum limit on what is religious. A minister doesn't have to marry a gay couple, but if the minister also works at the grocery store, he has to check out their groceries.
You don't have a "right" to have me serve you if I'd rather not.
(Yes, I know the law says otherwise, but the law is . . . well, wrong.)
> How would you feel if your check-out clerk refused to ring up any of the meat products you had in the cart because they were a vegetarian?
I'd be baffled that the store hadn't already fired them for refusing to do their job.
iirc the Santeria Chicken Sacrifice case dealt with the strongly held belief part but that's w/o the googles so I could be wrong
I'd weigh in on this, but I don't practice Santeria. I ain't got no crystal balls.
Daddy's got a new .45
So it is still a very much unlibertarian, illiberal piece of legislation that compromises important principles.
But muh private business!
Also, what counts as conversion therapy for transgenderism? From what I understand there is a high rate of young children who think they might be transgender when young who grow into a ge Der that aligns with their sex. This seems to be government interference with treating a not very well understood condition for ideological reasons.
"transgender" is a huge mass psychosis that will eventually be relegated to the "OH my god I can't believe those people used to think that way" part of history.
Not until the conspiracy is refuted with free speech.
Only in the conservative theocracy where that's the official position and teaching otherwise is banned.
Meanwhile in the reality that doesn't go that way, they've already discovered a higher degree of certain types of brain similarity between the gender you identify with rather than the biological sex, and history will rightfully result in disgust for the bigots who thought your junk was more important than your brain for determining who someone is.
^ as I said
PS: plenty of us non-religious also aren't buying the transgender nonsense.
What makes you believe that to be true?
If reality was simply what anyone thought it was, it and all learning would be meaningless.
The harms of supportive exploration and then desisting are negligible, meanwhile the harms of fighting it are enormous.
You complain about the high rate of suicide in trans people, then want to ban the best known ways of preventing that? Allowing transition and being accepted reduce suicide risk to population background levels.
I'd say preventing well researched best practices in order to maximize child suicides for purely ideological and political reasons is a reasonable policy.
Actually the risk of puberty blockers and hormone therapy is not negligible, they can be life altering, so can cosmetic surgery. They can include increased risk if reproductive cancers, infertility, depression, etc.
Even pushing acceptance and affirming their decisions, the suicide rate remains almost unchanged among the transgendered community, even among those who have transitioned. So your entire schpeel is not fact based.
In fact, there is very little research showing conversion is doing anything to reduce teen suicides. The facts don't support your hypothesis at all. In fact, suicide rates among teens is up in the US and increasing in the UK (although 2020 they were down, but the UK health administration says this is probably not accurate due to lagging reporting due to COVID shutdowns).
"Allowing transition and being accepted reduce suicide risk to population background levels. "
That's utter fiction. It *can* reduce suicide risk somewhat, but the reduced risk is still many times the normal risk of suicide. See, for instance:
Trends in suicide death risk in transgender people: results from the Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria study (1972–2017)
It's actually about 20 times the background rate. And doesn't fall over time for M to F "transitions", only in the opposite direction.
Gender dysphoria virtually always resolves at puberty. Doing anything about it before puberty is finished is a pretty clear cut case of medical malpractice, in light of that.
The end of the world must be near if only the churches stand to support logic and science.
Again; the issue was artistic decoration of an already baked cake, not baking a cake.
The bill also bans conversion therapy for minors to attempt to "cure" them of being gay or trans,
Are gay immersion programs in schools still fine? Or is this one sided?
"It's fine to be gay and you may discover that's who you are" and "You must be gay" are two entirely different arguments, but of course that distinction is lost on a bigoted fascist fuck like you.
It is always amusing the people who call others fascist tend to exhibit traits most associated with actual fascists. And the training tends to be in some cases much closer to the latter than the former anymore.
Even the Gaystapo are generally accepting this compromise, and the larger LGBT community are supporting it.
There is a difference between equal rights and demands that churches change their doctrines to suit every possible critic.
Except in Canada where they appear to be debating rather they can force churches to go against their doctrine to enforce "equality".
Either you support the same exemptions for racial and every other kind of banned discrimination, or you're a raging hypocrite. Naturally conservatives have no issue being one.
You can argue for a principled system where nobody has to associate with anyone they don't want to, but "Skydaddy says so" is a bullshit argument, and "Skydaddy says so and that's good enough for LGBT because they deserve less rights than POC" is even stupider.
You may not like it, but we do have a constitutional provision about free exercise of religion.
I misunderstood your point. OK, now that I understand it I disagree with it. There's no reason why the rules for one type of discrimination need to be the same as the rules for another. Especially when one of them is more or less defined by a *desire* to do things rather than a physical characteristic, meaning it's much less obvious.
The "food preparation facilities supervised by religious leaders to comply with various dietary requirements" is problematic. These are secular food facilities that otherwise have zero connection to religion. Many large scale food companies are kosher, and there is no rule in kashrut that prevents LGBT from working there.
Other than the book of Leviticus, which is also were the food taboos and rules that dictate Kosher butchering also comes from.
The end of the world must be near if only the churches stand to support logic and science. You may not like it, but we do have a constitutional provision about free exercise of religion.
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While the proper way to deal with religion is to enforce their moderation by legally preventing their more extreme practices, there is a fundamental contradiction between religious liberty and protecting the rights of minorities. Religion is a set of rules for handling in- and out-groups. If it didn't have policing people's genitals, what would the church even be for?
But since a multiplicity of religions means they themselves are subject to each other's discrimination, and are in turn protected by these same laws, each church has a stake in these laws too.
There is a tension that has to do with how much parents are permitted to harm their children via the church. Contrary to popular belief, parents don't own their children, and children have some autonomous rights themselves.
But again, indoctrination of the youth is a primary role of a church. If we're going to tolerate religion at all, I guess we have to let it ruin some lives for no good reason.
I myself have never been against the LGBT agenda. But I do not like those who try to show this as the only true option. I think that's where all the problems come from. I have chosen senior hookups for myself. And I never insist that my way to meet and communicate is the only true one. I'm just going my own way.