OSHA's Vaccine Mandate Illustrates the Perils of Reflexively Deferring to Government Experts
The question for the Supreme Court was not whether the policy was wise but whether it was legal.

When the Supreme Court blocked enforcement of the Biden administration's vaccinate-or-test rule for private employers last Thursday, the response from the three dissenters was familiar. Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan argued that courts should not override the judgment of the government experts who know best how to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic.
The dissenters were right that the courts are not charged with formulating public health policies. But the courts are charged with deciding whether those policies are legal, and they forsake that responsibility when they reflexively defer to politicians and bureaucrats who claim an emergency justifies unprecedented restrictions on freedom.
In this case, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) issued an "emergency temporary standard" (ETS) demanding that companies with 100 or more employees require them to be vaccinated against COVID-19 or wear face masks and submit to weekly virus testing. An ETS allows OSHA to avoid the notice, comment, and hearing requirements of the usual rule-making process, but only if the agency shows that its regulations are "necessary" to protect employees from a "grave danger" in the workplace.
"Courts have not been elected [and] have no epidemiological expertise," Kagan said during oral arguments on January 7. "Why in the world would courts decide this question?"
As Justice Neil Gorsuch noted then and in his concurring opinion last week, "this question" was "not how to respond to the pandemic, but who holds the power to do so." Two years into the pandemic, Congress has not addressed the issue of vaccine mandates, except for a December 8 Senate resolution aimed at overturning OSHA's edict.
In the half-century since it was established, OSHA has never before encouraged or required employers to make vaccination mandatory—a solution that, unlike other workplace safeguards, extends beyond the workplace. And while OSHA usually requires employers to pay for workplace safeguards, its COVID-19 ETS allows them to make employees foot the bill for virus testing, the better to encourage vaccination.
The crux of the legal argument between the majority and the dissenters in this case was the question of when COVID-19 qualifies as a workplace hazard, as opposed to a risk that Americans face throughout the day, which goes beyond OSHA's statutory mission. While the dissenters were willing to let OSHA define that hazard in general terms, justifying a broad solution covering 84 million employees, the majority thought the agency was obliged to be more specific and discriminating, taking into account the wide variation in risk across industries and workplaces.
The Court confronted a similar issue last August, when it blocked the eviction moratorium that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had imposed on landlords across the country. The question was not whether the policy was a wise response to COVID-19 but whether Congress had given the agency the authority it claimed, as required by the separation of powers and the rule of law.
Unlike federal agencies, states have broad authority to protect public health under the "police power" they retained when the Constitution was ratified. But that power has limits, as illustrated by the Supreme Court's injunctions against pandemic-inspired restrictions on religious gatherings.
As in the OSHA and CDC cases, the issue was not whether the challenged policies were sensible or effective. It was whether they violated the First Amendment by discriminating against religious activities.
Breyer, Sotomayor, and Kagan dissented in all these cases, arguing that the Court lacked the requisite expertise to evaluate policies addressing a public health emergency. "Justices of this Court play a deadly game in second guessing the expert judgment of health officials," Sotomayor warned when the Court blocked New York's restrictions on houses of worship in 2020.
"Members of this Court are not public health experts, and we should respect the judgment of those with special expertise and responsibility in this area," the majority conceded in that case. "But even in a pandemic, the Constitution cannot be put away and forgotten."
© Copyright 2022 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan argued that courts should not override the judgment of the government experts who know best how to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic.
Right, because the people that make sure your hard hat area is properly labeled can figure out how to stop a virus that literally no one has figured how to stop as of the writing of this comment.
The Chinese have had that shit locked down for two years now. What, you don't believe them?
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Debra, what kind of jobs do you do working at home? Do you ever receive a tip?
I gave her a tip, but be warned, you pay extra for that kind of action.
Sotomayor is a fat diabetic who wants to force others to reduce her health risks instead of eating right and exercising to reduce her own risks. See her comments and demands of the USSC members like Gorsuch. Just like Jeff.
Type one though, so she did not over eat herself into that condition.
Maybe.
-- The obesity epidemic is widely blamed for a startling rise in the incidence of type 2 diabetes among children. Intriguing new research suggests it is also to blame for a similar increase in type 1 diabetes.
https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20030926/obesity-linked-to-type-1-diabetes
She’s a Hutt. They’re very demanding. She probably wants Trump frozen in carbonite and delivered to her chambers,
"Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan argued that courts should not override the judgment of the government experts who know best how to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic."
And that is the height of legal scholarship on the left, people. "Bring me an expert, and I'll sign the concurrence." There is not a day that goes by where I don't thank God that Hillary was unable to fill those SCotUS vacancies.
While it is refreshing to see Sullum finally acknowledging that maybe the myopic focus on The Science! (tm) turned this whole debate into whose experts could get the most acceptance and media coverage, we really could have used this criticism of the Experts about 2 years ago.
The Trump and Biden administration have proven that Sotomayor, Kagan, and Breyer are little more than party hacks making legal decisions on motivated reasoning rather than a logically consistent legal philosophy.
Throw Garland in there. What a dodged bullet that was. But you can look at bidens entire cabinet to see utter failures at their jobs. From Pete to Kamala.
It really is a cavalcade of of incompetence. I have a very low opinion of democrats, but his cabinet has lowered the bar farther than I thought possible.
I just want to know what the definition of expert is these days. Because it seems to include people who have openly lied, fought to kill correct information, been wrong on the majority of their assertions, etc.
Anyone who supports the pre-approved narrative is an "expert" these days. Look at the letters from "experts" on climate science to support ACGW or the "physicians" who signed off on censoring Rogan, those are the experts they refer to.
Yeah, now there is a peer reviewed study out that says Ivermectin is effective against covid too.
I wish I had that information when I was dealing with a double vaxxed case of covid a couple of weeks ago. But maybe it's for the best, I was in Turkey at the time, who knows what the local horse deworming cure is, I don't want some mistranslation error ruining my week.
I had to listen to some idiot yesterday, insisting that 97% of people hospitalized for KungFlu are unvaccinated. The ignorance of these people tries my patience. My response to him want very pleasant as I corrected him.
Progs need a lot of correcting.
"Name one."
That should shut them up.
Breyer is old enough to know better, and to remember when the "liberal" party in U.S. politics actually still held some number of liberal beliefs, but Kagan and Sotomayor might actually be a bit confused between which document is the U.S. Constitution and which is Mao's "Little Red Book".
In this context, "expert" means anyone offering a rationalization for the expansion of state/executive branch power. How they get to a point where such "expertise" overrides U.S. statutory law, the Constitution and the 9th and 10th Amendments in particular is a mental exercise that I can't comprehend.
It’s scary that these people are on the highest court in the land, but clearly don’t grasp the legal issue before the court - even after, I’m sure, it was briefed and argued extensively by both sides.
“No individual shall be discriminated against on the basis of disability in the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who … operates a place of public accommodation.” §12182(a).
The term “public accommodation” is defined to include the “professional office of a health care provider.” §12181(7)(F).
A later subsection qualifies the mandate not to discriminate. It provides:
“Nothing in this subchapter shall require an entity to permit an individual to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of such entity where such individual poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.” §12182(b)(3). - Breyer assents
So, even to the "We should deny healthcare to anyone who isn't vaxxed." crowd, Breyer has already disagreed by saying that if the healthcare provider is vaxxed and masked, they'd be illegally discriminating by refusing treatment.
seems to say the opposite? "Nothing in this subchapter shall require an entity to..."
seems to say the opposite?
To a moron, or someone pretending to be a moron to ignore the context, the explicit theme of the rendered opinion or pretty much anything besides their own mendacious interpretation of the specific clause maybe.
Otherwise, it's pretty obvious that say, a patient wielding a knife can't or trapped under a collapsed building can't legally compel service because they, or their conditions, are a *direct* threat, whereas someone who isn't vaxxed and doesn't have COVID or does have asymptomatic HIV is not a direct threat and can compel service.
Moreover, the decision still makes assumes the "experts can go fuck themselves" position. The medical experts can't decide for themselves what constitutes a direct threat, SCOTUS does.
Feelings are strong and the ideological context/framing is thick. Maybe a better question on my part would have been – what are you referring to specifically about Breyer "saying that if the healthcare provider is vaxxed and masked, they'd be illegally discriminating"? As in, what did Breyer actually say in the normal meaning of "say". That would probably help me parse. This is extrapolating from Breyer agreeing that vaccines and masks work, or...?
Literally 'say'? Nothing. The case in question (Bragdon v. Abbott) was with regard to HIV and Breyer assented with the majority opinion. The body of the opinion is that HIV (which has no real vaccine and is readily prevented with PPE) is an indirect threat and, therefore, cannot be legally discriminated against, even by medical experts. Derivatively, someone who doesn't have COVID isn't a direct threat to anyone because of COVID and someone who does have COVID isn't a direct threat to someone who is vaccinated (which, again, HIV has no vaccine) and who's wearing PPE... regardless of medical expertise.
Thanks for explaining.
Asymptomatic or low symptom (my throat is a bit dry today) transmission is common, and being vaccinated and masked only significantly reduces the direct threat from co-workers, it doesn't remove it.
Also, the topic isn't whether accommodations are required for people dealing with covid as a disability. Swab test refusal is not (close to) a disability (though perhaps it can be argued it should be protected as political speech, since that seems the most common motivation.)
...but theyll try to deny it to anyone not on Obamacare...or something.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I’m Jacob Sullum and I think it’s time to stop listening to experts!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
The point of the article went right over your head, didn't it?
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I’m Jerry B. and that comment went right over MY head.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Are some of reason writers getting red pilled or is it merely an attempt to save some face to continue gaslighting later?
Red pilling in this context being the realization bureaucrats are largely partisan and ineffectual, not conservative.
Better late than never I suppose.
Hey Jerry B., do you understand this comment? Maybe it will help.
do you understand youre an Assweasel?
Hahahahahahahahaha!
I’m daveca I’m super angry and stupid!
Hahahahahahahahahahah!
Great Article!!!
Yeah, Fuck Joe Biden and his whole entourage.
Fuck Joe Biden!
^this
Fuck Jen Pissaki.
Jen you ignorant slut!
Not for you she's not. Frustrating for sure – it's enough to make one spontaneously rush to the Capitol to break windows in outrage.
I would be worried if she wanted to be a slut for me. Definitely would not.
Somehow the Supreme Court had the expertise to weigh in on the whole country's system of healthcare - what happened that they're unable to weigh in on one little pandemic? Although I do admire their principle of remaining silent on issues they are not experts at, because then we'd never hear a peep out of them, I have to guess that this principle is a one-time thing. Next ruling they'll be right back to second-guessing other sorts of experts because second-guessing experts is sort of the job of the Supreme Court.
Its
Fuck you, Reason board codemonkey.
It's great we have a wise latinx (even if she uses disgusting gendered language) to keep the facts straight.
Facts are, they've got a more important agenda.
Lati-NO!
The court should have recognized that those same experts shifted narratives multiple times and sometimes failed to follow their own conditioning indoctrinations. Snake oil salesmen aren’t really experts. And that is all you need to know about Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan.
"Courts have not been elected [and] have no epidemiological expertise," Kagan said during oral arguments on January 7. "Why in the world would courts decide this question?"
Because the question is not one of epidemiological expertise. It is a question of law. What authorities does the Constitution allow the federal government, and did the Congress delegate authority to this executive agency in this field. The law is supposedly the Court's area of expertise. For that matter, what epidemiological expertise does OSHA have? Disease prevention is outside its scope of work. The reason OSHA was selected was nnot for expertise, but so the administration could co-opt private employers to enforce the mandate that the federal government does not have the police power or capacity to enforce itself.
Kagan posts some her other opinions on here as sarcasmic.
Does that make the wise Latinx Joe Friday?
We all know sarcasmic is Jennifer rubin. Claims he once voted for the gop but is so ashamed and pure she now supports biden and the state.
Because the question is not one of epidemiological expertise. It is a question of law.
Yet another reminder, a previous SCOTUS said when an HIV+ patient shows up at a dentist's office and demands treatment, the dentist can't claim their own medical expertise (or even, seemingly, lack thereof) in their defense against charges of discrimination.
They don't know better than the first-hand practitioner who will bear the costs directly and will proceed to dictate the law to them, but when it comes to armchair experts speculating from DC, they have no expertise to refute their interpretation of the law.
When the President orders OSHA to do something, and then OSHA complies, how can anyone have a good faith belief that the compliance was a product of agency expertise? Did the courts defer to State Department expertise about whether to put a citizenship question on the Census -- or did they decide the reasons stated were pretextual because, Trump?
DAMN GOOD point.!!!!!
I would love it if policy would follow some science that's not political.
Because so far, those promoting the jab have lied, redefined words, shifted goalposts and bypassed numerous safeties to approve an experimental therapeutic that does not stop transmission and already is appearing to cause more severe illness than it prevents.
FDA approved booster for kids without consulting the fucking vax board (which coincidentally was reticent to approve the initial jab, go figure). Now there are 5 year old children on ECGs checking for damage to their heart.
CDC won't even investigate the damage caused by the jab. Every potential successful treatment for Covid has been systematically defamed to favor the jab, and the US remains in the lead on Covid deaths.
Meanwhile, bottom of the socio-economic sardine barrel, Uttar Pradesh in India has a fraction of our rates - but they also have distributed Covid care kits that contain that awful horse paste and icky vitamins.
Politik uber alles.
Well done. I also imagine India doesn’t have the gargantuan waistlines of the hostesses of The View and the show’s fanbase.
Oh, I'm certain if obesity was indicated as one of the top 3 risk factors in serious illness resulting from Covid our government would have done something.
Don't be a fat shamer, now. We're beautiful and healthy at any size, don't listen to those disgusting MAGA chiropractors.
That show should be called The Chew or The Moo.
Perhaps the federal govt would release some sort of food pyramid thingy that would be based on the amount of govt subsidies to different food related industries as well as campaign donations from associated lobbyists. And when fatties still bulge at the waist, the Karens with wine babies can blame folks not wearing masks. They will track down FaceBook posts from some recently deceased morbidly grotesque creature wearing a Trump hat having said they don’t want a jab. And they will erupt all over themselves in schadenfreude glee over the person’s death.
On the plus side, as an unvaxxed heathen that works outdoors, I'll not only be physically able to dance, but I'll last longer and be able to do it on deranged progshit graves.
I refuse to watch a show that is a panel of (possibly) female Hutts.
"Pizza the Hutt!"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_kyRHg_tU
I think "The Chew" is (or was) already a different TV show.
The Ewe could work too.
Belgium just removed a vaccine for those under 31 due to myocarditis.
Were Belgians waffling on this?
Don't butter us up with puns. Serious discussions here.
Not even the yeast bit of room for puns? You always can get a rise out of me.
No room for puns? What a load of crapes!
Hot cross puns
Even the French toasted the decision.
Yet it would baguette such discord later.
Sir, up yours.
The Moderna, while recommending the Pfizer and suggesting using the half-dose Moderna for boosters.
Realizing the jab is worse than the coof, but believing bailing on political investments is even worse.
"I would love it if policy would follow some science that's not political."
Some skepticism on this point seems fair. You've been enthusiastically sharing viral politicized pseudo-science, like claiming the covid death count is wildly/fraudulently inflated ("an accurate count undermines the fuck out of your totalitarian goals"), ignoring data (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8344999/ )
"the jab" ... "cause more severe illness than it prevents"
This is not even close, not even in the same league or epistemological universe as "science that's not political".
As an example, more covid hospitalizations per capita in 12-29 year old unvaccinated than in 80+ 3-dosed population (Alberta, here):
www DOT alberta DOT ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics DOT htm#vaccine-outcomes
"CDC won't even investigate the damage caused by the jab"
The capitalists control everything.
Citation needed.
"Every potential successful treatment for Covid has been systematically defamed to favor the jab"
Media horseshit.
"Meanwhile, Uttar Pradesh..."
Breathlessly credulous.
To repeat, what is your hypothesis why the miracle horse paste can't show value over placebo in randomized controlled tests? Surely these comments require *at least a hypothesis* to attempt the pretense of "science that's not political though yeah it comes from Ingraham and Carlson and makes a lot of outrage entertainment money"?
www DOT cochranelibrary DOT com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD015017 DOT pub2/full
I've posted links to just about all of this previously - some in comments to you - and it is readily searchable from multiple sources.
It is not my fault your eyes glaze over whenever a contrary word is spoken to the official narrative.
As ever, I highly encourage you to educate yourself on the matter and explain why, in the chronically undercounted VAERS reports, a therapeutic looking to prevent illness that is non-fatal to 99.95% of people has more fatalities, birth defects and general harm than every other real vaccine since 1990 combined. Tell me why it's being discontinued in other nations that actually are reporting on the jab harm.
Then tell me again I should take it.
"I've posted links to just about all of this previously"
How compelling. In the prior vax page thread you just dropped when contradicting evidence was cited. As it was here, above.
"chronically undercounted VAERS reports"
As has been explained numerous times here and in a million fact checks online, VAERS is not a list of side effects from vaccines. It is difficult to imagine you actually think that it is but perhaps the partisanship is so strong you really completely lose the concept of correlation/causation.
Do napkin math. If 5 million people are vaccinated in a week, how many people are likely to die within 48 hours of taking their vaccine even if it has nothing to do with the shot? To what degree then, do reported deaths after receiving the shot prove that the vaccines have "more fatalities, birth defects and general harm than every other real vaccine since 1990 combined"?
This is old, run of the mill anti-vax stuff. I understand that it is viewed as hostile to point out the history of these arguments.
It is unlikely you don't actually understand the concept, right. This is, after all, exactly the argument covid contrarians make (again, contradicting logic and evidence) about hospital death counts of covid, which are independently confirmed by the size of lockstep spikes in total (excess) death counts.
Can't be overstated how important this focus on independent testability of claims is, relative to truth and reasoning. The same excess death test can be used in claims of mass vaccine deaths. You should see total excess death counts spike with vaccination pushes by region. You don't.
Same pattern over and over, year after year. Political contrarians wanted to press stories of NOAA falsifying data to deny physical reality of warming. Their approach was to double down on story-telling, anecdotes, attacking the character of scientists etc. The approach from other scientists was predictable – looking for independent testability, comparing to e.g. satellite SST measurements, buoy-only SSTs, ARGO buoy surface readings etc. This is what NAS used to reject the partisan attacks in that case as fraudulent, same thing replays over and over with covid conspiracy claims.
You mean when the scientists who found global warming wasn't conforming to their projections changed data to suit the model and then wondered why people suddenly lost trust?
I can't see any parallels with the current CDC, why would you bring this up?
"You mean when the scientists who found global warming wasn't conforming to their projections changed data to suit the model and then wondered why people suddenly lost trust?"
Alex I'll take anti-science urban legends for $1,000
The 'NASA fakes the data' type global warming claims are absolutely infamous bunkery. Embrace skepticism.
"I can't see any parallels with the current CDC, why would you bring this up?"
Oh gods there are constant, continual, deep, facepalm level parallels.
Doesn't mean they are exactly the same, but the patterns in terms of urban legends, conspiracy theories, straw man, quote mining, cherry picking etc. is strikingly consistent across politicized reactions to science findings – evolution, climate, vaccines, covid etc. Great that you notice the pattern, tragic that you grossly misdiagnose the reason for the pattern.
Read what I said: "You mean when the scientists who found global warming wasn't conforming to their projections changed data to suit the model and then wondered why people suddenly lost trust?"
They published extensive papers explaining and justifying why the data was changed. This did not change the fact that data was changed.
Coincidentally, Walensky recently has said she's remorseful the CDC didn't better convey that The Science would change frequently, irrespective of actual science, because agendas!
I clearly did read what you said. It's infamous anti-science horseshit, as noted.
As anybody who has done a finger segment worth of research could tell you, the net effect of anti-bias adjustments in global surface temp datasets is to *decrease* the degree of measured global warming.
I've mentioned the contrast between the story-driven claims of contrarian conspiracies with the empirical approach used in the scientific community – independent testability, multiple lines of measurement and evidence. Global warming directly in line with 40 year old NASA projections is confirmed by thermometers, by satellite infrared measurement, by satellite microwave sounding, by diving buoys, by geological proxy measurements, by observed transformations of the physical world such as rapid acceleration of ice melt.
There are solid reasons why partisan anti-science activists limit their focus to dramatic evidence-free fraud and conspiracy accusations rather than data, as you do. It is not a mistake in strategy: it is in fact the best strategy available.
We are talking about the tropes of science contrarianism and we are in one – you are rolling the goal posts around, trying to pretend that if you can show some data set adjustments exists, you have actually established your weaponized conspiracy version of the claim. I suggest you target this activity to the more credulous.
Sigh. Third try for literacy.
Did the numbers change, yes or no?
You wrote "changed data to suit the model"
I wrote "you are rolling the goal posts around, trying to pretend that if you can show some data set adjustments exists, you have actually established your weaponized conspiracy version of the claim"
I assume at this point you are just trying to kick up dirt to make an exit. You can just make it.
Holy shit, quote and a miss. Stupid or willfully obtuse?
"Changed data to suit the model"
This happened around the time NOAA updated how it read and interpreted data - changed models to one nominally more accurate and certainly more uniform. In the process, data that did not fit the model was discarded to obtain accuracy.
So yes, data was changed or discarded to suit the modeling methods.
Not just liberty that's got wax issues here.
"data was changed or discarded to suit the modeling methods"
LOL! I love the restatement.
Still not really accurate. Data wasn't discarded. Ship measurements just provably measured slightly warmer relative to buoys in the water (like 0.1deg C... over time easy to look at where buoys and ships intersected). NOAA projected the need for the adjustment 8 years in advance. You could read about topics before recirculating viral conspiracy versions.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/cdc-not-investigating-myocarditis-death-jacob-clynick-pfizer-vaccine/
"leaving it to state health departments to investigate deaths reported following COVID vaccines"
True proof of the capitalist plot to sell vaccines – CDC not directly doing all investigations.
https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people
Not sure whatyou think you are supporting with this.
Your claim: "the jab ... cause more severe illness than it prevents"
Your link: "Vaccines have been shown to be highly effective in preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death from COVID-19. For example, as of mid-September, 41 out of 49 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 at UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento were unvaccinated"
The link: viral loads are identical in un/vax.
No; no significant difference detected "in people who tested positive for the delta variant". Read the links.
This does not contradict, as the link notes, that vaccines greatly reduce harm from covid19. What part of this supports your claim of "more severe illness" *from vaccines*?
Studies show vaccines like Pfizer can help prevent infections in the first place:
"BNT162b2 effectiveness against any Delta infection, symptomatic or asymptomatic, was 64.2%”
BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness against the Delta (B.1.617.2) variant in Qatar | medRxiv
Viral loads are the same in the un/vax. That is all this link said you projecting dipstick.
If you want to talk why it causes more illness than it prevents - in addition to non-neutralizing receptors inviting immune infections - you can click the link below. The really big list of science actively happening.
Heres a really fucking big list.
https://www.rwmalonemd.com/references
Your claim: "the jab ... cause more severe illness than it prevents"
Your link: list of possible vaccine complications. But nobody is arguing vaccine complications are impossible – they are rare, and vaccines are orders of magnitude safer than covid19 infection.
There are really big fucking lists of documented problems with evolution pointing to creationism. They are called 'gish gallops'.
Side effects are rare. Right.
https://vaersanalysis.info
How many deaths did it take to yank the H1N1 vax again?
"How many deaths did it take to yank the H1N1 vax again?"
Not sure. Is this counting the same way you're counting VAERS or anti-vax folks count autism cases, meaning not concerned with whether vaccines had a role as cause?
How many unnecessary deaths of unvaccinated Americans due to politicized anti-vax misinformation campaigns just this week? Here, in the real world, in 2022. Napkin math – accounting for vacc'd/unvacc'd differences in deaths and a sliver of valid medical reasons for unvacc'd, something in the range of 10K unnecessary American deaths a week? That's a running total anyone has to respect. McVeigh could only dream of that many dead Americans.
RE: deaths *from* vaccines, here's a detailed survey you can hunt through. Not many.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pedro-Moro/publication/277144615_Deaths_following_vaccination_What_does_the_evidence_show/links/5d017100299bf13a38510447/Deaths-following-vaccination-What-does-the-evidence-show.pdf
Oh hey, you can sue for jab harm in Australia.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccine-claims-scheme
Good. Perhaps the capitalists do not yet wield total and complete power.
Never mind the mandatory staycations.
In practice you are campaigning for more of them, are you not? You're vocalizing this madness of hostility to vaccines and swab testing.
It is well and good to say we should just let hospital systems collapse with pandemic surges, 'let nature play it out'. The political back pressure against this becomes enormous. No country has let it happen for long. It turns out nobody actually wants this dreamy dystopia when it comes to it.
Perhaps the interesting question is: if the pandemic pain was reduced, would it still provide the same massive opportunities for constant, satisfying grievance signals from deep in the collective id?
In what dystopian mindfuck is campaigning for diverse treatment options, freedom from mandates and personal choice an incitement for government lockdowns, comrade?
Why aren't there other acceptable therapeutics?
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/
Your claim: "Every potential successful treatment for Covid has been systematically defamed to favor the jab"
Your link: hey look, there are potential therapies such as remdesivir, which do show significant help with covid19 and so have been approved for use since oh 2020.
Are you REALLY going to try to play like you were not paying attention to the coordinated defamation of treatments this entire pandemic?
Have I mentioned progressivism causes mental illness?
This is what it looks like, yes, deeply entrenched in media bubble. The market wants 'plandemic' stories, and media doles out tales of miracle cures suppressed to drive evil profits and evil vaccines. The audience raves and buys.
All it takes is a borderline candidate treatment (of hundreds being tried), with even a single claim or paper showing something, even if subsequently withdrawn. Or not even that. Hydroxychloroquine fades quietly away but no lessons learned, the entire clown show swings by for another profitable performance.
Outside that bubble, in the daylight of the actual medical and scientific world where thousands labor through weekends around the globe, investment in treatments are ongoing with every step of *demonstrated*, *tested* progress celebrated.
Of fucking course, it's a global pandemic FFS.
Here's an article I happened to be reading from today's Medpage Today update, you could subscribe yourself and start learning about the medical world, if you wanted. It speaks of remdesivir and bamlanivimab/etesevimab and casirivimab/imdevimab. There's sotrovimab and tocilizumab in that family. Surely paxlovid has punctured the bubble somewhere? I suppose that one likely to attract anti-capitalist conspiracy ideation (maybe I'll look up how that is forming out of curiosity.)
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/96763?xid=nl_covidupdate_2022-01-20&eun=g2043224d0r&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyUpdate_012022&utm_term=NL_Gen_Int_Daily_News_Update_active
Did you forget you were replying to a link from the NIH on treatments?
Options DO exist. They ARE being tested.
They ARE NOT being promoted.
And I see I am supposed to disbelieve my lying eyes on years of dismissals. Gotcha.
Your comment: "They ARE NOT being promoted"
The article: NIH Covid19 Treatment Guidelines panel updated guidance "recently added a 3-day course of intravenous (IV) remdesivir as another treatment option for this group of patients" and highlights that "the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs) that allow 2 new oral antiviral agents to be used in this patient population: ritonavir-boosted nirmatrelvir (Paxlovid) and molnupiravir"
It seems like your complaint is that medical news is not being filtered through to you via your chosen hyper-political choices for media, and for that you lay the blame squarely on... medicine practitioners?
Do. Your. Fucking. Research.
You shoulda been asking questions when Trump pushed through a vax without due regard to safety protocols and with it pre-paid for results.
You should have asked even more when research - valid or not - into cheap, widely available repurposed drugs was actively smothered.
If you weren't asking questions when it was revealed Fauci repeatedly lied about funding research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and slandered scientists who contradicted him, you obviously were a Democrat.
The difference appears to be in reasoning, skepticism etc.
Do your fucking research. Question your own narratives. *Read* what you cite before linking it. Cite things that remotely, plausibly support your claims. Don't cite things which contradict your own claims.
The difference being that I am skeptical of a government narrative whereas you've completely relaxed the jaw.
Jab is ineffective at preventing transmission or reducing viral loads.
Jab has a long list of side effects more severe than the disease it doesn't prevent. More than every other vaccine since 1990 put together in all categories of harm.
Now please cite me where Fauci, Walensky or anybody (that's not conservative) in legislative power is making decisions based on this.
Because I've got two years of them ignoring science and pushing the poke by any means necessary.
" I am skeptical of a government narrative "
You are not skeptical of "government" narratives. You are skeptical of reason and data which you *label* as "government narratives" for political purposes, should any government official anywhere agree the sky is blue.
"Because I've got two years of them ignoring science"
Let's let the existing threads and citations speak to this.
You are full of shit.
Now you're trying to say that I should not believe my lying ears on what has been spoken and enacted government policies that were flagrantly political.
Great Barrington never happened. Masks were not football. Teachers unions had no hand in policy crafting.
Fuck right on back off to CNN.
appreciate you taking the break and laying out your view of justifications for your claims above.
"Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor, and Elena Kagan argued that courts should not override the judgment of the government experts who know best how to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic."
Objection your honor. Speculation; assumes facts contrary to the evidence of the last two years of political theater by the "government experts".
Impeach Kagan
Not until the republicans control the senate!
(BTW, how is it that the democrats control the senate with only 48 members? Would not the 50 republicans make the majority?)
Bernie and Angus King caucus with the Democrats. And Kamala is the tiebreaker vote.
It's popular on social media to snark at people for "doing their own research" on the grounds that making decisions about one's health is an experts-only thing. This is ludicrous. "Experts" who make their living going on television talk shows will not suffer the slightest consequence if their advice completely fucks up my health or kills me. So I'm not going to follow them blindly.
And we do have to take care not to conflate science with government policy. Some of you will be shocked to hear this but they are not the same thing, no matter how many times the politicians claim they're "following the science".
I do understand my own limitations. My decisions about health are really nothing more than my best guess--and so is yours. But it's still my decision to make, not that of some bureaucrat who hasn't treated a patient in decades.
Yep. Right or wrong for you, still your choice.
https://babylonbee.com/news/historians-discover-document-from-1776-that-removes-all-mandates-and-restrictions/
George Takei posted a meme asking in what lab people do their in research in.
CNN+ just added rex chapman as an analyst. It is amazing. They don't even hide their clown world acts.
I know I go to mediocre former NBA players-turned-Twitter trolls for my analysis on anything except slam dunks.
Oh my!
Next youre going to tell me Jim Cramer isn't a trillionaire from his stock expertise.
I imagine him with a swimming pool full of fake oaks tic jewels and Monopoly money that he pretends is Scrooge McDuck’s money bin. Then he jumps in and giggles, pretending that it’s real money he made from his horrible investment advice.
Yeah, everyone that reads on line is a ' researcher'
What a bunch of self absorbed blow hards.
Research is investigation to discover something new, not reading to learn and certainly not reading the Progshit spewed by the Leftist Media.
Let's see.
All employees of companies with more than 100 employees must install a breathalyzer interlock, at their own expense, on the cars they use to travel to, or for, work, to cut down on drunk driving accidents.
All employees of...must have a weekly psychological exam, at their own expense, to cut down on workplace violence.
That psychological exam is not a bad idea, actually...
https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/over-50-percent-white-liberal-women-under-30-mental-health-condition
Ya know why Biden mandated " 100 companies?"
He cant count any higher than that.
Fuck Joe Biden and his Pet Monkey FaucXi
All males who work for companies with 100 or more employees must be eunuchs, to cut down on work place violence and toxic masculinity.
""Courts have not been elected [and] have no epidemiological expertise," Kagan said during oral arguments on January 7. "Why in the world would courts decide this question?"
Yes, bitch, why did YOU decide on it?
Youre one of them, right?
No, not when her statement is a carefully concealed ad hominem attack on the six Justices that over ruled her.
Theyre all wrong and shes right. Typical arrogant Liberal attitude.
Karen Sotamayor...hypocrite. And liar.
"Elected" has nothing to do with it ( Red Herring) and ANYONE, especially such highly placed Judges, could and can search out a REAL expert in Epidemeology and ask questions.
Anyone but FaucXi... find a real expert instead of that paid Shill.
Mad.casual's COVID anecdote update:
Broodling No. 1 (14 yrs. old) -
1. Vaccinated on the 11th
2. Developed fever, no congestion, otherwise fine on the 15th.
3. Tested negative via antigen test on the 16th (no ability to test, at home or in-office sooner). Sample forwarded on for PCR, COVID and influenza, testing.
4. Attained positive COVID PCR result on the 17th. Influenza was "inconclusive" (not "negative").
5. At or near full recovery by the 17th by the time results were attained.
Mrs. Casual (vaccinated), myself (not), and other broodlings (both vaccinated and not) have yet to develop any symptoms.
Conclusions thus far:
1. In multiple ways (Mrs. Casual's reaction to her most recent booster was worse than Broodling No. 1's case), the vaccine sucks...
2. If testing isn't utterly worthless (Even if accurate, information attained without (see Conclusion 1) or after the ability to take action on it has passed is indistinguishable from noise).
3. Statist bureaucracies and COVIDiots are doing a good job crushing themselves among people generally sympathetic. Lay persons don't like to be made to feel like 6 ft. tall cockroaches.
Every single person in my family, vaccinated or not, has had covid.
Yeah, I've heard just about every permutation of some did/didn't get it and vaccinated did/didn't get it. Four days after vaccination was a bit surprising though. As in, if you get rabies or tetanus and get the vaccine soon enough after exposure, both have a >90% chance of saving your life but (depending on disease progression), but the COVID vaccine is empirically... different.
The virus is everywhere. Getting it right after vax isn't uncommon.
The virus is everywhere.
Totality of circs. I've been assured that the virus is everywhere for 2 yrs. now and despite no vax, minimal masks (usu. buffs or gaiters all around), and multiple rather direct exposures with no symptoms, this is the first case (again, assuming antigen is wrong and PCR right) in my immediate family... four days after getting vaxxed.
There is good argument for the jab enabling infections via the production of non-neutralizing receptors and a base from an obsolete variant.
If we follow the pattern from the SARS 1 mRNA jab trials, that is exactly what will be happening here.
Unvaxxed heathen here, and I've either never caught it or symptoms were so mild I didn't even notice. Ditto for Mrs. Heathen and little heathens 1 & 2.
Due to interacting with elderly clients, we test (negative) frequently. Have not done an antibody test, but I'm really curious to do so at some point soon.
I Am Fully Un- Vaccinated
And will stay that way.
No "compliance injections." From the "Kill or Be Killed" movies.
F. FuckXi
I had it a few months ago. So I’m immune for the moment. No ‘vaccine’ for me.
next up, 4 boosters ar a time. 2 in arms two in asses.
"In multiple ways (Mrs. Casual's reaction to her most recent booster was worse than Broodling No. 1's case), the vaccine sucks..."
Mine too. Got so sick she almost fell off the couch.
FuckXi's Killer Vaccine
Got so sick she almost fell off the couch.
Her first dose wasn't too bad, half a day of mild discomfort and general unwellness. I didn't help with my "So you can stop wearing a mask at work now, right?" Her second dose was worse, soreness along the entire arm, and outright 'sick'. Her third dose, the most recent, pain, numbness, and immobility for the arm and several days of sickness. It's pretty clear that she's getting worse with each subsequent dose.
Add in the boys staying home from school and conversations with school nurses along the lines of "You don't know what the COVID policy is? That makes sense because *I* don't know what the COVID policy is." and she's openly stating "
serenity now!I'm done with COVID(iocy)!"look up " toxicity of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines"
The column is written as if the court's 2 wings were not political players in an institution trashed by political appointments and that there were actual legal principles being argued and decided. No, there weren't. Add to that it's illegitimacy due to the fact that a majority of justices were nominated by presidents rejected by American voters and 2 of the seats were stolen from presidents American voters selected. The court should have had a liberal majority since Alito croaked under any fair and principled process.
#feelingz
This paragraph is written as though the remaining liberal justices are in any way logical among or between themselves or between previous liberal justices.
Previous and current liberal justices are somehow medical experts who can distinguish when a fetus is viable, when a doctor can safely treat someone with HIV and when they can't, or a half-dozen other cases where they've overridden or whimsically interpreted the statements of experts and long-established scientific fact only to go on and contradict their own expert judgement by declaring themselves not to be medical experts.
Cry more.
This guy's hilarious. OBL, watch out. This guy may take your crown yet.
Joe you left out Marbury being decided wrong.
Even if that is so, the right leaning justices still got it right and the left leaners embarrassed themselves.
I feel your pain, loser.
Really? What rules or laws were violated?
Hey Joe,
Do you want to tell Alito about his passing or shall I?
Of course, we could just reclassify him as a Democrat. That way his vote, although from a dead person, would still count.
homo collectivus
Homo directus
Virus is every where on earth. We should try to physically fit. very good information Thanks
Wow. Smart 'bot.
Alternatively, extremely stupid 'bot that scores higher on the Turing Test than much of humanity.
The problem with "listen to the experts", especially with something that is still being studied and isn't that well understood, is that 1) experts get things wrong all the time and 2) experts disagree with each other all the time.
Which is all good and part of how science gets done. Until someone tries to pick the one true expert who must be believed in all cases.
I am SO PISSED OFF!
Here I am, President of the US and I cant get one goddamn Mandate to stick.
I tried an end- run with OSHA and Trumps Appointees screwed it all up.
Whats a dictator gonna do?
I cant make anyone do anything! Maybe Ill call Buttigeg and make him give me a BJ. Hes ' one of those'. He puts the 'Trans' in Transportation.
Whats " gerbiling?"
I'm not into Jen Psaki, shes a cranky bitch thats starting to look like 50 feet of mud fence. Jeesh I give her the Pulpit and she cant bother to use a little makeup? And her hair doesnt smell like strawberry anyway. And shes old.
And dont start me on Harris. I made her Veep and she wont even make me coffee. I just saw Hillary go into her office and now theres a lot of giggling and moaning going on. They must be watching Vines?
If you want help with mandates, tap Pete Buttgag. He’s an expert on mandates. Perhaps he can help you with a Hershey Highway mandate.
Change your diapers, stinky.
Following the law hasn't even made it into the top 1,000 priorities of the Biden regime.