Book Reviews

Why We (Still) Shouldn't Censor Misinformation

It strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.

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After President Donald Trump's loss in 2020, a majority of his supporters believed the election had been rigged. Some adopted wild conspiracy theories involving Chinese supercomputers, Hugo Chavez, and state-level Republican officials. These beliefs culminated in an attack on the U.S. Capitol that left five people dead. To make sense of these events, many officials have argued that platforms such as Facebook and Twitter allowed conspiracy theories to spread unimpeded, leading to erroneous beliefs and deadly behaviors. In other words, they blame misinformation for the violence.

But it strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection. That places an undue focus on misinformation itself, rather than on the people and institutions sharing it and on the people who choose to access and believe it. It also seems odd to call for more government intervention into our information ecosystem when government officials—the president, members of Congress—were, in this instance, the biggest purveyors of misinformation.

Since he became a candidate in 2015, Trump and his high-profile supporters in Congress and the media have repeatedly claimed that elections are rigged. Since his loss last year, he has become only more vociferous about this. It should come as no surprise that the person with the biggest bully pulpit in the world was able to convince some voters he was cheated. This is what politicians do: They build and mobilize coalitions. On the other side of the ledger, electoral losers are naturally prone to believing they were cheated, and Trump's claims only exacerbated this tendency among his core supporters.

Once we account for the influence that politicians have, as well as the dispositions of core audiences, the role of misinformation and mediums of communication in fomenting events like the Capitol riot become highly conditional and much smaller than many are arguing.

Nonetheless, pundits have called for interventions ranging from the benign (more journalistic fact checking) to the heavy-handed (internet censorship, the nationalization of social media). While these calls have intensified recently, they are not new. After the 2016 election, many journalists declared that we had entered a "post-truth" world in which lies, misinformation, and groundless conspiracy theories carried as much weight as statements of fact, if not more. Such sentiments grew more widespread during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The desire that others believe the "right" things and act the "right" way is often well-intentioned. I too would prefer that people not inject themselves with bleach because they heard that it can prevent COVID-19. But designs on others' beliefs are sometimes little more than expressions of crass self-interest or, worse, authoritarian tendencies.

It isn't clear that the public is more prone to believing misinformation than in the past. If it is, this may mostly be a top-down phenomenon driven by the conspiratorial rhetoric of high-profile elites such as Trump. Nonetheless, it has become scripture that our current maladies have been wrought by the mass public spreading misinformation through social media—and, of course, that something must be done to stop them.

Enter Harvard legal scholar Cass R. Sunstein. His new book, Liars: Falsehoods and Free Speech in an Age of Deception, expresses many questionable but popular claims about false information: that lies travel faster and farther than truth, that social media are responsible for a new age of misinformation, that government intervention is needed lest we lose our democracy.

Sunstein does recognize the dangers of asking the government to act as arbiter of truth. Early in Liars, he invokes Justice Robert Jackson to clarify the stakes: Governments that police speech will inevitably move on to policing dissent, and when they can't fully eliminate it, they may turn to exterminating dissenters.

Yet Sunstein ultimately concludes that, under some circumstances, the government has not just a reason but the authority to censor, punish, or use other tools against those who spread harmful falsehoods. His argument in brief: "False statements are not constitutionally protected if the government can show that they threaten to cause serious harm that cannot be avoided through a more speech-protective way."

Sunstein concedes that most falsehoods don't require punishment or censorship. But for some falsehoods, he insists, legal intervention is required. He begins with already proscribed forms of falsehoods involving defamation or fraud but expands from there to defamation of politicians and harmful misinformation about "people, places, and things." Sunstein would specifically like to see regulation of knowingly false speech that "creates a clear and present danger of harm."

So on one hand, Sunstein acknowledges that officials cannot be trusted to police truth because they have their own biases, which can ultimately lead to punishing dissent rather than mere falsehood. But he simultaneously argues that more categories of speech should lack constitutional protection and that government should play a role in determining both what is false and under what circumstances people should be allowed to freely express falsehoods. He wants an "independent tribunal" to make some of those decisions, but it isn't clear how independent it could actually be.

Meanwhile, the punishment of speech can foster exactly the kinds of beliefs that Sunstein says he wishes to prevent. If the believers think they're being persecuted, that can reinforce the idea that they possess important secret knowledge. Many of the people prosecuted would become martyrs. And the trials of accused liars could draw more attention to their falsehoods.

That's just one way that Sunstein overemphasizes misinformation and underemphasizes beliefs and behaviors. For example: If he thinks getting a vaccine is so important that we need to punish people who lie about the dangers of it, why not just call for the government to make those vaccinations mandatory? If the motive for policing speech is the actions that stem from the speech, then a punishment for not engaging in the prescribed behaviors would be even more justified. Besides, many people engage in the "wrong" behaviors even though they weren't exposed to false information. Does Sunstein want to improve outcomes or just to punish speech?

Sunstein also credits misinformation with more power than it has. A century of research into belief formation has shown that while information, true or false, can convince people to change their beliefs, it often doesn't. For people to adopt new information, they usually need worldviews already in alignment with it. This puts the responsibility for false beliefs at least partially on the back of the believer.

Sunstein ignores the role political and media elites play in driving people's beliefs as well. Prominent partisan leaders wield enormous influence over the beliefs of co-partisans in the mass public; this influence exists whether those leaders speak truthfully or not. (As we have seen, many of the lies told on social media are told by the president and members of Congress.) Because he omits this facet of opinion formation, Sunstein is blind to a paradox: Government leaders may be the ones spreading false information, yet Sunstein wants to empower the government to find out exactly who is spreading falsehoods and punish them. Government leaders are unlikely to punish themselves, and enforcement will likely target the less powerful, not the more powerful. So the probable result isn't to punish the most influential spreaders of falsehoods; it's just another cudgel for violating citizens' rights. Case in point: The members of Congress who encouraged the violence at the Capitol remain in power as of this writing.

If Sunstein's recommendations were policy, it would be difficult to know what is illegal and what isn't. Sunstein puts forward four considerations to determine what should be done about false speech, each with four gradations: the speaker's state of mind (from purposely lying to mistaken), the magnitude of the potential harm (from grave to nonexistent), the likelihood of harm (from certain to highly improbable), and the timing of the harm (from imminent to the distant future). Sunstein asks readers to consider all of these factors when considering what to do about an individual sharing a falsehood; this would leave the authorities to figure out where a particular falsehood falls within 256 possible categories. Such incomprehensibility would most certainly chill speech.

Nor would Sunstein's recommendations work on their own terms. We should have little confidence that government agents or tech companies could—in real time—tell fact from fiction without much error. Even professional fact checkers don't always agree on what is false and why. Further, the fear of being prosecuted may serve to drive falsehoods underground, where they can't be challenged.

Or people may choose to speak in generalities that don't assert facts. Saying "the MMR vaccine has been shown to cause autism" is factually wrong; saying "I don't trust vaccine companies" could be entirely true, since it refers to the speaker's state of mind. Both statements could convey the same meaning, but only one would be punishable. Unless, of course, the next step is to ban not just unwelcome speech but unwelcome meanings.

Liars: Falsehoods and Free Speech in an Age of Deception, by Cass R. Sunstein, Oxford University Press, 192 pages, $22.95

NEXT: Why Are Members of Congress Trying To Ban the Importation of Kangaroo Meat?

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  1. “These beliefs culminated in an attack on the U.S. Capitol that left five people dead.”

    But never any criticism of the BLM/Antifa activities over the past year that have left 30 or more people dead. The TDS is still strong in this one.

    1. My tribe GOOD! Your tribe BAD! My violence GOOD! Your violence BAD!

      No, do NOT pay attention to MY violence! Let’s ALWAYS change the topic, and talk (AND FIGHT!) about YOUR violence, instead! Because MINE is good, and true, and righteous, and yours isn’t!

      Has this been tried before? What were the results?

      1. Has this been tried before?

        Posting like an eleven-year-old? Yes, I believe it has.

        1. And the results? The 5-year-olds wouldn’t read what the 11-year-olds wrote, because ANYTHING critical of the 5-year-olds hurt their baby feelings! YOU said things that made ME feel bad, therefor YOU must actually BE bad, is the typical 5-year-old “logic”, and we see it on these comment pages all of the time!

          And let’s not forget “Courage the Cowardly Dog”! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_the_Cowardly_Dog Out-take from there, “…a grumpy, selfish and greedy farmer who regularly mistreats Courage out of jealousy and refers to him as “stupid dog”. “Stupid dog, you make me look bad” (for doing the right thing) was a commonly repeated refrain!

          1. sarcasmic likes to watch Saturday morning cartoons while he fucks his daughter. They’re on the same mental level so it all works out really great, except for the whole raping your daughter thing. But thankfully he’s a hopeless alcoholic welfare case who drinks the memories away.

            1. Kill any prophets lately, Jesus-killer, Mahatma Gandhi-killer, Martin Luther King Jr.-killer?

              Don’t tell the Emperor that He has no clothes! I am already a Perfect One! Me AND my tribe are Already Perfect! Any messengers bringing any news to the contrary? Let’s shoot and kill the messengers!

              WHEN did this EVER fix ANYTHING?

              1. Kill any prophets lately, Jesus-killer, Mahatma Gandhi-killer, Martin Luther King Jr.-killer?

                You might want to refine this just a little, sarcasmic. Neither Mahatma Gandhi nor Martin Luther King Jr. ever claimed to be prophets. Try constructing your idiotic analogies and messianic fantasies BEFORE you’ve downed your first fifth of Caliber brand Walmart bottom-shelf vodka for the morning.

                Jesus of Nazareth was dead for about 2,000 years before I was alive. You may consider that my alibi.

                Raped your daughter lately you sick piece of subhuman degenerate shit?

                1. I think that your brains may have been zapped by Jewish space lasers! You might want to get it looked at!

                  1. So that’s why you wear a tinfoil hat, you think the Jooos are gonna shoot your brain with lasers!

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                  2. “your brains may have been zapped by Jewish space lasers!”

                    Why do all our lefty posters eventually expose themselves to be antisemitic?

                    1. It is amazingly consistent isnt it.

                    2. See https://reason.com/2020/01/01/trumps-inartful-dodges/#comment-8068520 , where
                      Der JesseBahnFuhrer says, of Trump, “He is not constitutionally bound on any actions he performed.”

                      Hey JesseBahnFuhrer! Is this statement of yours, above, now applicable to Biden? Or is only Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFuhrer qualified to be our dictator? If so, why?

                    3. Fuck you jew hater. My wife is a Jew. You’re garbage.

                    4. OK then, damiksec, specially just for YOU, Very “Special” Person, blame the Lizard People space lasers instead of the Jewish space lasers!!!

                      Sheesh! I’m sorry I didn’t cater to YOUR Special Delusions, Deluded One!

                  3. Hey look, the moral paragon reincarnation of Jesus of Nazareth is a raving anti-Semite.

                  4. You’re an anti-semite too? JFC you are all the bad shit you constantly accuse everyone else of being. No wonder you’re always so angry.

      2. My violence GOOD! Your violence BAD!

        Or in this case, my violence a fictitious invention of the media, your violence a documented fact with a pile of dead bodies, a bunch of raped women, smoldering ruins, and 2 billion dollars worth of insurance claims to its name. But thank you for reminding us about how you spent an entire year deflecting while your brownshirts killed dozens of people, tried to kill dozens more, raped women and burned the inner cities, sarcasmic.

        Has this been tried before?

        Yes. As I mentioned, sarcasmic, you spent an entire year running this gambit.

        What were the results?

        You got blackout drunk, outed your sockpuppet a few dozen times and fucked your underage daughter against her will because you’re a degenerate piece of subhuman shit. So it was like every other day that ends in Y.

        1. You resent the hell out of the fact that many other people are flat-out, better, more honest people than you are, right? More “live and let live”, and WAAAY less authoritarian?
          https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-love-and-war/201706/why-some-people-resent-do-gooders
          From the conclusion to the above…
          These findings suggest that we don’t need to downplay personal triumphs to avoid negative social consequences, as long as we make it clear that we don’t look down on others as a result.

          SQRLSY back here now… So, I do NOT want you to feel BAD about YOU being an authoritarian asshole, and me NOT being one! PLEASE feel GOOD about you being an authoritarian asshole! You do NOT need to push me (or other REAL lovers of personal liberty) down, so that you can feel better about being an asshole! EVERYONE ADORES you for being that authoritarian asshole that you are, because, well, because you are YOU! FEEL that self-esteem, now!

          1. It does feel pretty good not to be a lying psychopathic rapist, but then you set the bar pretty low, sarcasmic.

          2. Benningfield wenningfied fee-fi-fo-fum I smell the blood of a RACIST mon. Everyone is Racist except for me as I tried to explain to Dr. Jennifer but she made me take the pill that gives me bad dreams. Dreams of a country that was INSURRECTED by evil Trumpanzees! Trumpanzees like Benningfield wenningfied.
            This can be solved by reading M. Scott Peck’s EXCELLENT book on copraphilia and mental health, which I paraphrase on my website http://churchofsqrls.com/eating-shit-and-loving-it

          3. Amazing to watch sarcasmoc continue to think he is clean and doesn’t do the shit he bitches about constantly.

            Why are alcoholics so self unaware?

      3. Well, after all it’s always “my” side who are the victimized, only fighting back against the bad guys. That’s why it’s cool for dudes like Geiger and Nardz and Mother’s to be assholes.

        Oh, look, even though I’m allegedly a “lefty” I’m quoting Jordan Petserson. Weird, it’s like I’m not really a lefty:

        https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jordan-peterson-before-trying-saving-the-world-try-cleaning-your-room-first

        “There is another typical feature of ideological pursuit: the victims supported by ideologues are always innocent (and it is sometimes true that victims are innocent), and the perpetrators are always evil (evil perpetrators are also not in short supply). But the fact that there exist genuine victims and perpetrators provides no excuse to make low-resolution, blanket statements about the global locale of blameless victimization and evil perpetration — particularly of the type that does not take the presumed innocence of the accused firmly into account. No group guilt should be assumed — and certainly not of the multigenerational kind. It is a certain sign of the accuser’s evil intent, and a harbinger of social catastrophe. But the advantage is that the ideologue, at little practical costs, can construe him or herself both as nemesis of the oppressor and defender of the oppressed. Who needs the fine distinctions that determination of individual guilt or innocence demands when a prize such as that beckons?”

        1. Youre a lefty.

          The fact that you think Jordan Peterson is a right conservative proves it. You fall for media narratives constantly. He is a classical liberal. He leans left. He just believes in responsibility. He has stated his beliefs many times.

          You’re just a retarded lefty.

          1. LOL, I don’t believe Jordan Peterson is a right-wing conservative. I’m just referencing a popular perception of him.

            I agree that he is a classical liberal. I am, too! Which is why I’m quoting from him.

            Now, young man, think about his words I quoted and how they apply to you.

            1. “I agree that he is a classical liberal. I am, too!”

              You’re not a classical liberal unless Pol Pot was a classical liberal.

              FYI, Jordan Peterson was president of the Youth Wing of the Alberta New Democratic Party. They’re a left-wing Democratic Socialist party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party#Ideological_orientation

              Kinda like you.

          2. And, by the way, it’s an asshole move to use “retarded” as an insult. If you’ve ever known a family who has a child with Down’s Syndrome, its not cool to belittle mental retardation.

            1. It is unfair to children with Downs as they are usually pretty sweet, while you’re a psychotic cunt.

    2. Apparently, one died of a stroke, one by heart attack, one demonstrator who died when caught up in the mob entering the Capitol, one unarmed woman shot by a B
      lack policeman, and a policeman who died a day later – but without any signs of physical trauma resulting from a beating.
      The only shots fired were by the police. As an insurrection, it was curiously unarmed. There was probably Mace and/or bear spray carried by some of the insurrectionists.

      1. Keep practicing the dismissive narrative. Make sure you don’t accidentally let in anything that doesn’t fit the narrative. It’s very important to maintain your belief that MAGAs are totally the good, victimized people and lefties are totally the bad guys.

        1. Yup that’s the real strategy here. Make only the most superficial comparisons to BLM riots to make Jan. 6 look better by comparison.

          “OMG there was more property destruction with BLM riots!!!” Well yeah. But property destruction wasn’t primarily why most people were upset by the Jan. 6 riots.

          They want us to believe that breaking into the legislative chamber to disrupt a lawful session certifying the peaceful transition of power between administrations is no big deal compared to a mob burning down a Kwik-E-Mart. The mob burning down a convenience store didn’t threaten the peaceful transition of power, the mob burning down a convenience store didn’t attack one of the symbols of the Republic itself. There may have been more damage done in terms of dollars if the convenience store burns down, but that’s not the main point here, and the Team Red lickspittles around here defending it don’t care. They are going to go to the mat to defend breaking into the US Capitol.

          This is rank moral relativism and it’s pretty sickening actually.

          1. Lol. 2 billion in damage, 30 deaths, hundreds of officers assaulted.. is superficial. Lol. God damn joke.

          2. The mob burning down a convenience store didn’t threaten the peaceful transition of power

            And we’ll just ignore the mobs that ‘seceded’ from the US altogether. Violently. Seems to me like that threatened the ‘peaceful transition of power’ over there.

            1. No I get it. You’re going to try any thin reed that you can to try to claim the moral high ground over Team Blue. It can’t ever be the case that Team Red actually did something that was worse, ever.

              1. Jeff I’d say blm did threaten the republic they made cancel culture a who new level. Violence against those who believe something different is a very scary thing to watch. I know you have a different opinion but when you can’t disagree civilly without fear of baseless repercussions that’s way worsethen the 6th

              2. the worst part is not the constant need to say the other side is worse…… the whole game is to avoid admitting they were wrong at all.

                there might be some legitimate gripes about people who did not condemn the BLM riots “hard enough,” but the trumpsters tend to come off like they are supporting those who broke into the capital. BLM protesters and supporters always at least paid lip service to not agreeing with those who crossed the line…… trump supporters won’t even admit a line was crossed on Jan 6.

          3. That sword cuts both ways:

            When rioters spent a year burning down buildings to the tune of billions, while seceding from the US, no one was outraged.

            On January 6th, some of the most powerful 1%era had to take an unscheduled break, and it’s Civil War 2.

            The self-centered self-concern of Congress is disgusting, and I don’t see the point in carrying that water for them. And Drama queen is never a good look. Not on men, anyway.

        2. I think Team Red has invested a lot of capital in the narrative that Team Blue is just inherently violent and vicious and dangerous, while Team Red protesters follow the rules (how many times did we hear that after Tea Party rallies, the protesters left the park cleaner than when they found it???). It is a huge amount of cognitive dissonance for them to wrap their heads around the idea that there is a very real, very violent faction among Team Red which is just as dangerous and vicious as those on Team Blue throwing Molotov cocktails at Federal courthouses, and that they really did go to DC on Jan. 6 to stir up shit, break things, and cause some real harm. It wasn’t just tourists and selfies. They MUST try to take the moral high ground against Team Blue even as they sink further and further. Because it is never about culpability for their own actions judged by its own standards. It is always relative to the other tribe.

          1. I think Team Red has invested a lot of capital in the narrative that Team Blue is just inherently violent and vicious and dangerous,

            Far, far less capital than the Team Blue people who have invested generations of capital in demonizing gun owners, and now, simply being white.

            1. And now your victimization justifies any action on your part:

              https://reason.com/2021/03/21/why-we-still-shouldnt-censor-misinformation/#comment-8817865

          2. It is a huge amount of cognitive dissonance for them to wrap their heads around the idea that there is a very real, very violent faction among Team Red which is just as dangerous and vicious as those on Team Blue throwing Molotov cocktails at Federal courthouses

            300 unarmed people breaking windows at the capitol with the only violence being an unarmed white woman being shot in the face by a black capitol police officer is just as dangerous and vicious as radical left wing Marxists causing 2 billion dollars worth of property damage, murdering over 3 dozen people including multiple black people and black police officers, assaulting hundreds of people, raping several women, attempting to burn hundreds of people alive after barricading them inside of buildings, and setting up autonomous zones that declared independence from the United States. In fact more so. While the former represented a literal insurrection against our cherished Democratic institutions, the latter were simply adolescent hijinks, and attempts to arrest the people responsible represented Hitlerian fascism.

            Your mom’s rotating dildo doesn’t spin as much as you do, cytotoxic.

            1. Let me fix that for you:

              Trying to subvert the peaceful transfer of power through mob violence is worse than NOT trying to subvert the peaceful transfer of power through mob violence.

              Can you get that through your head?

              The BLM riots were awful in a lot of ways. There was far too much violence. They massively hurt their own cause by continuing the orgies of violence. They were horrifying for a LOT of reasons.

              The Jan. 6 riots were less violent, less destructive. Nevertheless they were horrifying in a DIFFERENT way. Most people aren’t upset by Jan. 6 because of the property damage. Do you understand that? Does anyone on your side understand that?

              Ever since Jan. 6 the strategy from Team Red has been obfuscation, deflection, and whataboutism. How about this instead: State emphatically that what happened on Jan. 6 was wrong. It was wrong on its own merits, it was wrong regardless of what BLM had ever done ever, it was wrong not JUST for the property damage but ALSO – and PRIMARILY – for the attempt to disrupt and stop the lawful assembly of Congress to certify the results, it was wrong REGARDLESS of whether Trump did or did not incite anything, it was just plain wrong.

              Once you have the moral clarity to do that, then maybe we can have an adult discussion on the topic. But if not, then just fuck off and stop carrying water for Team Red.

              1. Agree with everything you said, except for the same point I’ve made dozens of times now.

                They were not “BLM riots”. Black Lives Matter had no part in organizing any of the riots, even if some of the rioters wore t-shirts that said “Black Lives Matter”, or carried signs saying “Black Lives Matter”. It would be accurate to say riots including Black Lives Matter supporters.

                JesseAz and others like to purposely misconstrue my argument as my supporting rioting. I do not.

                1. We’ll stop calling them “BLM riots” the day you stop calling 300 people trespassing in a public building an insurrection you mendacious fucking cunt.

                  Also, you’ve outed this sock dozens of times. You can stop replying to yourself and pretending to be a different person now.

              2. Trying to subvert the peaceful transfer of power through mob violence is worse than NOT trying to subvert the peaceful transfer of power through mob violence.

                No one in the United States of America tried to subvert the peaceful transfer of power through mob violence on January 6th. Repeating your mendacious false premise a million more times is not going to change reality. The only difference between the people who protested what they viewed as a fraudulent election on January 6th and the people who protested what thye perceived as police racism and hatred of Donald Trump from January 2020 until January 2021 is that the people who protested what they viewed as a fraudulent election on January 6th didn’t kill 3 dozen people, assault hundreds of others, rape several women, and burn down or attempt to burn down buildings.

                Most people aren’t upset by Jan. 6 because of the property damage. Do you understand that? Does anyone on your side understand that?

                Most people aren’t upset by Jan. 6. Full stop. That’s it. A handful of mentally ill radical leftists like you are obsessed about it because it provides you the narrative you need to unleash the full power and violence of the entire US federal government upon your political enemies. The only problem is that there is absolutely no moral equivalence between smashing some windows because you think the election was fraudulent and murdering 3 dozen people and burning entire metropolitan downtown business districts to the ground. Do you understand that? Does anyone on your side understand that? Do you understand that ACTUALLY FUCKING MURDERING PEOPLE is not morally equivalent in any way to breaking some windows in the capitol building? Do you understand that the more you try to draw the moral equivalence, the more of a deranged fucking psychopath you look like? Do you understand that proudly stating that the symbolism of trespassing in a fucking building is more important to you than people actually being FUCKING MURDERED makes you a twisted, amoral piece of shit?

            2. I mean, when you first read the news about what happened on Jan. 6, and you saw the images of the protesters smashing things and breaking into the Capitol, and you saw legislators and staffers running to safety, and your first reaction was “meh it wasn’t as bad as BLM”, then I’ve got to really question your sanity on that one.

              1. When you first saw the bombed out ruins of what was once Kenosha and you saw the images of the protestors lighting fires, beating the shit out of people, firing guns, and stealing, and you saw innocent business owners running to safety or getting beaten and killed trying to defend their property and livelihood, and your first reaction was “meh it’s not as bad as Trump’s mean tweets”, then I’ve got to really question your sanity on that one.

                Seriously. Unpack this. You are drawing a moral equivalence between murdering people in cold blood, burning down private property destroying dozens of people’s lives and livelihoods in the process to trespassing on public property. Given how fucked up and twisted your post-modern “morality” is I’d be deliriously happy to have you adjudicate me insane. The day I become sane enough to unironically argue that trespassing in a sacred building is morally worse than killing innocent people, you have my full permission to indulge your Marxist revolutionary fantasies and put a bullet through my head. Or, you know, hire somebody to do it for you since you’re an obese fatass LARPing piece of shit who lives in Canada and can’t travel because you’re afraid you are going to die from COVID 19.

        3. Keep practicing the dismissive narrative. Make sure you don’t accidentally let in anything that doesn’t fit the narrative.

          You’ve literally not posted anything that wasn’t a poorly-constructed paraphrase of something you read on Democratic Underground since you began using this sock, cytotoxic. You were so hooked on a narrative that you insisted Brian Sicknick was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher for 2 and a half months after it was disproven by multiple sources.

          1. LOL, I’m only vaguely aware that there even is a commenter here with the handle, cytotoxic. And now, you, Sherlock Holmes, have figured out that I am he. This is amazing detective work.

            1. LMFAO. Your protestations would be more helpful if you replied to my message on your chemjeff sock instead of your white knight sock. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Holy fucking shit bro.

              Also I’ve been calling you out as cytotoxic since the day you first started your chemjeff handle. It’s not like it’s difficult to find you out since you literally cannot help yourself from using the same regurgitated talking points and autistic rhetorical tics.

            2. You suck at running sock puppets, Jeff.

    3. I know, right? Why doesn’t Reason create false equivalences, or the most superficial equivalences, to whatever Team Blue is doing, in order to minimize and carry water for Team Red? Why it’s almost as if Reason is capable of putting quite different events into proper contexts of their own.

      1. Of course I’m completely ignoring the admittedly ridiculous “both sides” they do every time a Democrat is caught raping a goat or marching into Poland.

      2. I mean, come ON people. Every riot is the same. A riot that burned down a Kwik-E-Mart in Peoria is no different than the riot that stormed the Bastille. Both should be treated equally!

        1. So youre ignoring the 30 dead from kwikimart riots while cheering on the death by an officer over the other one.

          Weird you you think government officials deserve more respect than private citizens.

          1. Repeat after me, Jesse:

            Every Riot Is Exactly The Same!

            1. Lol. That’s all you can do for dismissing for more violence day after day. Youre such a fucking leftist child.

        2. By the way, your comparisons of storming the bastille to taking selfies on the rotunda proves your a fucking authoritarian statist who only cares about elites having power over citizens. Odds are you dont even know what the storming of the bastille entailed. Hint, more than walking around, selfies, and feet on desk.

          So fucking ignorant.

          1. I am sure that when the 18th century French peasants stormed the Bastille, they took their opportunity to look around too and see what it was like.

            But that is okay, Jesse, we know, Every Riot Is Exactly The Same. Burning down a Kwik-E-Mart has no more or no less significance or import than storming the Bastille or storming the Winter Palace in the Russian Revolution. All should be treated equally! All should be condemned equally!

            1. Hey look, Lying Jeffy is lying about what others are saying so he can feel a sense of superiority while he propagandizes for the left.

            2. We certainly shouldn’t pretend some townies larping around an office building was a genuine threat to the US.

              Unless we want to sound like fucking morons of course.

              1. Lying Jeffy is completely fine with sounding like a fucking moron as long as he can get his propaganda out there.

          2. “taking selfies on the rotunda”

            When they weren’t giving Officer Sicknick hugs, amiright?

            1. You mean the 40 days you cried about assault fire extinguisher? Still jumping to he was murdered by protesters despite his family, the fbi, and coroner’s all not saying so.

              Yeap, you wait for all the facts.

              1. “murdered”

                Killed, JesseAz, Killed, not murdered. We’ve been over this.

            2. Hey remember how you spent 3 months saying Sicknick was viciously beaten to death with a fire extinguisher based on a NYT report from 3 days after the event even though that report was proven false by his family and multiple officials within 48 hours of publication?

        3. It’s supremely poetic that you chose to wallow in your historical ignorance by selecting the storming of an empty prison in France to represent the “insurrection” on January 6th and use it as an excuse for a year-long rampage of radical left wing violence that resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, several rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage, mostly caused by arson.

      3. The false equivalence was that a one time protest turned selfish is equivalent to hundreds of days of looting and riots. You think the prior is treason and applaud the latter.

        You also think people should be locked up over meme if they are on the right (continuing to ignore everyone else who has made similar means)

        You also think people should be killed for trespassing on public property.

        You also think elites should be able to overrule elections when they want.

        Youre a fat piece of dishonest shit.

        1. You’re a perfect example of right-wing disinformation. You just say whatever you feel like, regardless of whether it is true or not, and you don’t care; as long as you can get your buddies to believe it, it might as well be “the truth” as far as you’re concerned. You are part of the problem, Jesse.

          1. Shut the fuck up you fat retard fuck. No one likes or respects you. No one.

          2. Notice how cytotoxic can’t actually refute one syllable of what was said. He just blindly asserts that it’s “disinformation” (protip: your team is using the term “misinformation” in an attempt not to be associated with the term “disinformation” which has its roots in Soviet communism; ask your handlers about a new style sheet). And then continuously regurgitates disproven bullshit for months at a time until he gets his updated talking points from Democratic Underground and pretends he can’t remember what he said the day before.

      4. Non-partisan, independent thinking looks awfully like rival team thinking to a partisan team player.

        1. Says the guy continuing with an officer killed despite no supporting facts. Lol.

          1. Exhibit A: The dude collapsed in his office after returning from duty on the day of the riots, and then died the next day. That sure seems like a “supporting fact”.

            1. If you have shit for brains.

        2. You wouldn’t know non-partisan, independent thinking if it beat you over the head with a fire extinguisher you mendacious piece of shit.

          Why do you bother socking in the same fucking thread when you’ve been outed dozens of times by the way? What’s the point?

    4. And if an unarmed BLM protestor in the previous year’s mostly peaceful protests were shot dead by police, it would have been a much bigger story, and led to many other cities getting not-so-peaceful protests in response, I would guess.

    5. Goddamn the comments here have gotten really worthless. Ten years ago, there was some discord among the commentariat, but now it’s just a complete fucking shit show of sniping and socking.

      *sigh*

      Yes, yes, also get off my lawn. :-\

      1. no sarcasmic the comments were always garbage

        the difference now is you’re the one getting shouted down

        1. They weren’t *this* bad. Every thread these days seems to be a constant stream of crap from the squirrel, and people actually bothering to respond to it.

    6. Yeah 4 died of medical problems and one was shot by the cops. The Trumpers didn’t kill a soul.

    7. “These beliefs culminated in an attack on the U.S. Capitol that left five people dead,” is a statement that has been demonstrated to itself be untrue. The story is more complicated, as usual:
      https://www.dailywire.com/news/walsh-media-says-capitol-riot-killed-five-people-the-truth-is-more-complicated

    8. Yeah, Reason never talked about Antifa………

      https://reason.com/2021/03/22/the-dream-of-the-90s-died-in-portland/

  2. “So on one hand, Sunstein acknowledges that officials cannot be trusted to police truth because they have their own biases, which can ultimately lead to punishing dissent rather than mere falsehood. But he simultaneously argues that more categories of speech should lack constitutional protection and that government should play a role in determining both what is false and under what circumstances people should be allowed to freely express falsehoods.”

    Sunstein is an authoritarian without the capacity to engage in self-reflection, not unlike several regular commenters here that pay generous lip service to free speech while demonstrating through word and deed that they have not the faintest idea of what free speech really is. Sure, free speech … but only so long as they are in the position to decide what is acceptable and what is not.

    But it strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.

    Or vote by text, for that matter (see Douglass Mackey). The criminalization of speech rests not only upon the notion that disagreeable speech is inherently bad, but also upon the notion that listeners or readers lack agency. To criminalize speech is not only to attack the freedom of thought but the entire concept of individual autonomy, thereby reducing the thinking man to nothing more than a conditioned animal. People that view others with the same domineering eyes as they view misbehaving dogs will, invariably, resort to treating human beings like animals — and will do everything in their power, provided they acquire it, to break, train, and mold men into models of obedience and servility.

    Do not be fooled by people that profess to love freedom so strongly that they are willing to sacrifice freedom in the name of preserving it.

    1. “Do not be fooled by people that profess to love freedom so strongly that they are willing to sacrifice freedom in the name of preserving it.”

      Freedom to do what? Freedom to always kill those who are better, more honest, and more benevolent people than we are?

      See “Antisocial Punishment Across Societies”, https://science.sciencemag.org/content/319/5868/1362 … Don’t you go making me look bad, by being a better person than I am! This is why Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., got themselves killed! This is an academic link here, and some of the other links (below) refer to it in turn.

      1. http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ for more details for those who are capable of reading AND thinking!

        1. And for those capable of thinking AND doing http://churchofsqrls.com/Shoving_Sticks_Up_My_Ass

      2. Flag the retard.

        1. Goldilicks Gorillashit gags-and-flags its conscience, whenever its conscience nags it about being a would-be Jesus-killer, Mahatma Gandhi-killer, Martin Luther King Jr.-killer, etc.

          Goldilicks Gorillashit exemplifies an ages-old problem! The prophet-killers! Speak ye NOT critical truths about me and my tribe, or else!

          From http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/MATT+23.html Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

          1. Feel free to go hang yourself from a cross or eat a bullet any time, sarcasmic. God knows your poor daughter could use the break.

            1. Surge of Benightedness, drinking benighted Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…

              He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
              Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
              Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
              Has no thoughts that help the people,
              He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
              On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
              Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
              Kool-Aid man, please listen,
              You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
              Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
              The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!

              A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
              https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/

              Hey Surge of Benightedness …
              If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
              Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
              You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!

              1. Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?

                See it’s funny because sarcasmic has openly admitted that he is a homeless, unemployed welfare queen and is also obsessed with shit and coprophagy.

                Projection is the process of displacing one’s feelings onto a different person, animal, or object. The term is most commonly used to describe defensive projection—attributing one’s own unacceptable urges to another. For example, if someone continuously bullies and ridicules a peer about his insecurities, the bully might be projecting his own struggle with self-esteem onto the other person.

                1. That STILL doesn’t answer about your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS. I can take care of those diapers, spreading their contents on toast like a savory marmite, regardless what Doctor Jennifer (the LIAR) says about sanitation!
                  Animals can do it and so can I! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophilia#Research

                  CLEVELAND STEAMERS UNITE!!!!

                  1. “I can take care of those diapers,”

                    Yes you eat shit, we know, you can’t seem to stop telling us then getting pissy when we acknowledge it.

                    1. lol zero

                    2. Yes, Tulpa is a TOTAL zero!

                      So are authoritarian assholes who advocate using Government Almighty FORCE to MAKE people buy Reason Magazines! And then NEVER have the humility to admit error, and take it BACK!

                    3. “So are authoritarian assholes who advocate using Government Almighty FORCE ”

                      so you admit you’re a shit eating zero!

                      haahh we love mocking you shit eater!

        2. I don’t even bother to tell him about it any more. I keep hoping that if people just flag him and *ignore* him, he’ll get bored and go fuck up some other community. He’s more prolific and less coherent than even the spam bots.

      3. I remember the good old days when sarcasmic’s persecution complex only extended to him referencing shitty teen flicks from 20 years ago and Bush-era cable comedy routines. Now he’s Christ, Ghandi and MLK. Except that Christ and MLK got themselves killed for their cause while sarcasmic just gets blackout drunk before 9 AM every day and rapes his daughter.

    2. To criminalize speech is not only to attack the freedom of thought but the entire concept of individual autonomy, thereby reducing the thinking man to nothing more than a conditioned animal.

      Very well said, sir.

  3. If we were going to weigh harmful speech and judge it by the danger it poses to the Republic, Cass Sunstein would have been executed years ago, “nudged” into silence as it were.

  4. If you look for a reported number of the people who breached the Capitol, you’ll probably see a bunch of stuff about how hard it is to estimate crowd size without drone footage–and drones weren’t allowed to fly over the Capitol, so there isn’t any.

    What we do know is that the number of people who breached the Capitol were a smaller number than the people who demonstrated, and we know that the feds have formally identified and charged 300 people for various crimes associated with breaching the Capitol.

    Sooner or later, we’ll get a report about all the rioters who are caught on camera but weren’t charged. Looking at the photos from within the Capitol, it doesn’t appear that a whole lot of them are wearing masks, and if that bears out, and if we assume that everyone who isn’t wearing a mask is identifiable given the resources of the FBI, etc., then we’re talking about the number of people who breached the Capitol being in the hundreds. If half of the rioters were wearing masks, those assumptions would give us 600 people, and it appears that fewer than half were wearing masks.

    Are we really talking about censoring social media because of what less than a thousand people out of 325 million Americans did?

    Rather than rewriting the First Amendment or ignoring it, because this is an emergency, maybe those who can’t sleep at night, worrying about what less than a thousand Americans might do because of what they read online, should seek professional help and start taking anti-anxiety medication.

    1. Yes this is the first time in history the topic of censorship has come up.

    2. Remember the bad old days back in July when uniformed federal agents in marked vehicles arresting rioters during a riot in Portland was a <a href="https://reason.com/2020/07/20/feds-send-outside-agitators-to-escalate-conflict-in-portland/"fascist gestapo campaign against mommies? Thank sarcasmic, MLK, Gandhi and Jesus Christ that we have returned to normalcy where the FBI arresting random people who were near the capitol building on January 6th based on evidence as weak as cellular network geolocation data is perfectly OK.

      1. I will always remember that.

        These same perople have the chutzpah to criticize the Capitol riot?

    3. Well Ken these particular rioters are about the dumbest on the planet earth. Masks or not openly storming the place with more security cameras than just about anywhere in broad daylight. Then taking selfie’s, posting them and bragging about it to their friends. The choice of target, this is not some side street in Portland guarded by the city cops. These are the Feds and they are as serious as a heart attack. They will hunt you down if it takes 20 years.

      It is like smashing the windows of Don Corleone’s car with a baseball bat right in front of him. WTF did you think was going to happen?

      1. And yet wasn’t it you shitting your pants about fascism and secret police when the feds arrived in Portland to protect the federal courthouse from the 4th attempted arson and openly arrested a handful of rioters during a riot in full uniforms with names and ID while you blatantly lied and said they were plainclothes police snatching people off the street in unmarked Ryder trucks?

        Is there any special reason why you think the capitol building deserves more veneration or protection than any other public property, Eichmann?

        1. You know what else was bad? Kristallnacht. Yet nobody here talks about that do they.

          1. Well yeah, Echospinner, I know what you mean, the troglodytes here never want to think about Kristallnacht! Gee, I wonder why?

            But SOME of us mention it from time to time! See below…

            Der TrumpfenFuhrer ***IS*** responsible for agitating for democracy to be replaced by mobocracy!
            https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
            A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses

            Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
            September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.
            Trump’s constant re-telling and supporting the Big Lie (any election not electing Trump is “stolen”) set up the environment for this (insurrection riot) to happen. He shares the blame. Boys will be boys? Insurrectionists will be insurrectionists, trumpanzees gone apeshit will be trumpanzees gone apeshit, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Trump was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?

            It really should immediately make us think of Krystallnacht. Hitler and the NAZIs set up for this by constantly blaming Jews for all things bad. Jew-haters will be Jew-haters, so let’s forgive and forget? Poor Hitler was misunderstood? Does that sound good and right and true?

            1. And when I say that Hitler was misunderstood I mean it! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist! Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!
              Here, this is a pretty good match! Every asshole is a good, right, and TRUE, benevolent asshole!
              https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/hitler
              “My spirit will rise from the grave and the world will see I was right.”
              ― Adolf Hitler
              “Germans who wish to use cheap plastic lung flutes should join the SS or the SA — ordinary citizens don’t need these deadly lung flutes, as their having cheap plastic lung flutes doesn’t serve the State.”
              ― Heinrich Himmler

              1. There is a reason why the Antifa thugs dress in similar clothing, wear face coverings and do their stuff at night in a place with low police presence.

                They rounded up plenty of protesters. Now good luck in court so they let almost all of them go.

                1. Downtown Portland with hundreds of police looking on under stand-down orders from the mayor and dozens of reporters from national media outlets covering the scene is certainly an inconspicuous and stealthy method. Now I can totally see why marshaling all of the resources of the entire federal government to track down 300 people who can be charged with trespass at most is a good and noble thing while releasing arsonists and murderers without charge is fair and rational.

              2. Hey look, sarcasmic is spewing more of his virulent anti-Semitic shit in between drunken blackouts and fucking his daughter again.

            2. Actually I was being sarcastic. Seems you can’t talk about the capitol riot without half dozen people bringing up an unrelated riot in Portland. So – kristallnacht. I think it is an obvious attempt at deflection.

              My only point was no wonder the DC thugs are getting arrested at a higher rate. They could not have been dumber. The Portland thugs were just smarter thugs.

              1. Oh yes. Youre one of those idiots who only allows focus to be minimal so you can get your gop bad digs in and ignore the much larger sources of violence on your side. Weird.

                1. My tribe GOOD! Your tribe BAD! My violence GOOD! Your violence BAD!

                  JesseBahnFuhrer, have your ideas ever been tried before, and what were the results?

                  1. “My tribe GOOD! Your tribe BAD!”

                    Yes that does seem to be your motive

                  2. My violence GOOD! Your violence BAD!

                    Yes, this was literally you for the entire year of 2020 while you were defending race riots and murderers, sarcasmic. Hilariously enough, the best example you can provide of right-wing violence is an unarmed woman getting shot in the face by a cop.

                2. My side? Yeah the libertarians are some bad ass killers all right.

                  1. No YOUR side, not libertarians.

                  2. True, you LARPing retarded faggots generally just get your racist fucking faces blown off because you’re too stupid to operate the AK-47 you bought and too nutless to pop it after you pull it, so you get outgunned by the driver of a vehicle who you thought you were going to intimidate and beat up for the crime of driving down the public street you were trying to obstruct.

                3. Mess with us and somebody is going to throw a book of Rousseau at your head.

                  1. Yeah man, agreed, but let’s ALSO throw THIS book at them as well!

                    Peter McWilliams “Ain’t Nobody’s Business…” https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/192976717X/reasonmagazinea-20/ , written by a gay man. It’s a secular book, but has a LOT of content about religious influences on USA history and culture. Funny and erudite, with LOTS of good quotes from many-many sources! EXCELLENT book!

                    1. Excellent review! Now do the 2004 classic film Mean Girls and remind us of the good old days when Jon Stewart was on The Daily Show you pathetic drunken pedophile.

                  2. fuck off you shit eating retard

              2. No no, Echospinner. You must agree that Every Riot Is Exactly The Same. A mob that burns down a Kwik-E-Mart is exactly the same as a mob that storms the Bastille. All the same!

                1. “Every Riot Is Exactly The Same.”

                  I keep reading this phrase. And it’s always in Lying Jeffy’s comments. Yet he keeps attributing it to people that haven’t said it. Why is that?

                  Oh that’s right, because Lying Jeffy is a dishonest piece of shit.

                  1. Because admitting the Capitol shit was nothing compared to the Summer of Riot means his life and narratives failed.

                2. Doubling down on the historically illiterate retardation. Lmfao. The Bastille was empty. It’s storming was meaningless. It was taken without violence or protest. It’s a really good analogy for the January 6th “insurrection”, just not in the way you think it is. What you are doing by way of your historically illiterate analogizing is comparing the symbolic and utterly meaningless storming of an empty prison to a decade long reign of terror and mass murder and coming down on the side of the terrorist mass murderers.

          2. Now that’s how you do whataboutism.

            Compare their comparison of something happening in the same country, and the same issues, six months ago; to something happening in a different country, on different issues, ninety years ago.

            Perfect.

            1. The portland thugs were protesting the elections? Who knew.

              1. Oh. So only protest you approve of count. Got it.

                1. I do?

                  Since when?

                2. Let’s see. Protests I approve of.

                  I have never actually been to a protest. I did go to a Crosby Stills & Nash concert once. Does that count?

                  1. Fuck off sarcasmic

                  2. So your taste in music is just as bad as your taste in movies and TV? Who’d have guessed.

            2. “Now that’s how you do whataboutism.”

              and THAT is how you run from a debate

          3. That happened last year? It also gets brought up often dummy.

            While you’re still pants about jan 6th did you bother with fbi testimony of no weapons? Are you aware that multiple BLM riots ended up breaking into government offices. Many more did so for stores and burning shit down, but you seem more concerned about feet on Pelosi desk? Why?

            1. Because that is what we were talking about. I also think killing baby seals is terrible.

              1. Comparing right wing political violence to left wing political violence to killing baby seals? Stop being dense.

                1. Because I condemn both. Actually any initiation of violence. And killing baby seals. So there is not much to talk about left or right for me since I don’t belong to any wing.

                  If we are discussing a particular act of violence I don’t need to bring up every other one.

                  There is some utility in discussing the causes of this one or that one or how they should be handled. Each is different. What is happening here is pure deflection.

                  There is actually a lot to talk about on the authoritarian – libertarian axis. The military police state. Government surveillance. censorship. Constitutional and legal issues. Voting rights.

                  The discussion seems to have devolved into hurling insults and blame. Clearly there is an issue when it comes to extremists be they left or right. It has come to violent acts and property destruction not mere opinion so where do we go on this axis?

                  1. We’ve gotten to the point where the argument is now:

                    “Sure both sides destroy property when the riot, but which side destroyed MORE property? Huh?????”

                    1. It’s a fair question to ask when you shit your pants and spend 2 months blithering about an insurrection because of some broken windows while you vocally supported violent race riots for an entire year that resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage.

                  2. Because I condemn both.

                    Well, that’s just it though, you don’t. You have never condemned radical left violence that took place over the entire last year and resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars in property damage. So when you come out squealing like a stuck pig about right wing political violence as a result of a riot where the only violence that took place was an unarmed woman getting shot in the face by a capitol police officer despite having a 4-man SWAT team with M4 assault rifles trained on her back standing less than 10 feet behind her, it’s conspicuous by the total absence of any condemnation or outrage you demonstrated during a year-long epidemic of radical left wing violence, including several blocks of the capitol being burned down during the summer of 2020 and the occupation of that very same capitol building by left wing demonstrators during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings.

          4. Also, there was a mob that stormed the Winter Palace in the Russian Revolution. That was also bad! Come on now, people! If you’re going to condemn Antifa, why aren’t you going to condemn that?

            1. “pay no attention to the mob I support” – chemjeff

              1. “A dozen broken windows and a guy in a plastic viking helmet putting his feet on Nancy Pelosi’s desk is worse than a year long campaign of coordinated radical left wing violence resulting in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage” – cytotoxic.

          5. Ever since Jan. 6, Team Red had been on a furious campaign of whataboutism so as to minimize what they actually did on that day. Making only the most superficial or tenuous comparisons to every other event in which there was a riot.

            Why, did you hear that there was a riot in Peoria at some point AND YOU SAID NOTHING? That was nothing compared to storming the Capitol! WHATABOUT Peoria?????????????

            It is all ridiculous theater. These Team Red lackeys KNOW that what they did was wrong, and trying to compare it to whatever BLM did is to deflect from the symbolism and the intent of the rioters on Jan. 6, that they were not storming some ordinary building but the U.S. Capitol itself, and they were not trying to loot randomly, they were trying to stop the peaceful transition of power between administrations.

            They won’t grapple with that, they can’t, because they cannot hold their own side to any meaningful objective standard. It is only relative to the other side.

            Besides you just know that if Team Blue had pulled a similar stunt, the same morons here would be demanding they all be executed for treason and sedition.

            1. “minimize what they actually did on that day.”

              Says the “individualist” without shame.

              1. no no YOU are just as responsible according to Jeff

                and THAT is why her HATES you bringing up antifa, by his “logic” HE is responsible for their actions

            2. “Ever since Jan. 6, Team Red had been on a furious campaign of whataboutism ”

              whataboutism isn’t a defense of anything FUCKWIT.

              It’s how cowards dodge their actions.

            3. Symbolism is more important than actual violence that kills 3 dozen people and causes 2 billion dollars worth of property damage. Team Red made the mistake of spitting in the eye of the aristocracy! How can you possibly compare something that extreme and dastardly to murdering 3 dozen people and burning down 2 billion dollars worth of private property?

              Yes cytotoxic, it’s extremely telling what does and does not offend your sensibilities.

          6. You’d think the guy trying to deflect from a year of radical left wing violence responsible for 3 dozen murders might have enough self awareness not to bring up Kristallnacht, but when you’re a historically illiterate abject fucking moron with no clue what you’re talking about you actually think you’re helping by pointing out that it’s exclusively your side responsible for murdering its political enemies in demonstrations of radical street violence. The only person killed in the January 6th “insurrection” was an unarmed white woman shot in the face by a black capitol police officer. By all means let’s talk about Kristallnacht you stupid prick.

        2. I didn’t say anything about what is deserved. I said these people were idiots.

          1. and I said fuck off sarcasmic

      2. Now do the Kavanaugh confirmation.

        1. That’s different because fuck you.

      3. It’s almost as if they weren’t taking their treasonous insurrection as if it were a serious attempt at a treasonous insurrection, but more of a goof.

    4. what less than a thousand people out of 325 million Americans did?

      “Why, only less than a thousand people stormed the Bastille! It was a mere trifle! What do I have to worry about?” — King Louis XVI, July 14, 1789

      1. I case you haven’t noticed yet, my political class and I identify with the French aristocracy, and view you all as Sans-culottes.

      2. Yep. More proof you dont actually know what happened at the bastille. Good work ignorant fatty.

        1. There is a reason why July 14th is an important date on the French calendar. Do you know why that is, Jesse?

          1. What’s the reason you keep ignoring the Kavanaugh confirmation? Oh that’s right, because the MSM also does, and you’re their puppet.

          2. I suppose Cinco De Mayo and St. Patrick’s Day are Very Important Dates as well. Remember kids, storming an empty prison is worse than the decade long campaign of mass murder that followed because symbols are more important than actions.

  5. “Some adopted wild conspiracy theories involving…state-level Republican officials.”

    Well we now know as a fact that said Republican’s staffer lied to the Washington Post about what Trump said during a phone call, and the Republican official not only didn’t speak up to correct the record, he and his staff deleted (or so they thought) the recording of the phone call.

    So until I hear some explanation about why all that happened, I’m going to say that to call any theories wild conspiracies regarding him is bullshit.

    1. It’s hilarious that Reason considers all Republicans to be literal Nazis, except when they become moral paragons above any reproach.

    2. I like how Jeff thinks a meme maker should get 10 years in jail, but someone leaking a false story to a national paper prior to the election is just fine.

  6. “But it strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.”

    Unless you think that people have no capacity for independent thought. Or you want people to have no capacity for independent thought.

    1. I posted the Rothbard quote regarding incitement and individual responsibility. Most of the leftists here attacked that concept.

    1. Guess who’s not gonna make it into Biden’s praetorian guard

    2. Ahhhhh poor baby cry. Go enlist violent filth

      1. ohlooksarcasmicisusinghisothersock

        Tell us more about how you are Jesus Christ, Gandhi and MLK rolled into you delusional drunken pedophile sack of shit.

      2. I thought you died, Hihn.

  7. “But it strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.”

    Since it strains credulity to believe that Trump actually won the election or that it could be overturned even as it was being voted on, the events of Feb. 6 come as no surprise at all.

    If he came out and said the earth was flat and China had flattened it 60% of Trump voters would agree with 20% not sure.

    1. Ok, goebbels.

      1. Hey Nadless Nardzi the Nasty NAZI… You are a Holocaust denier just like Rob Misek! Two peas in a pod, you and Rob Misek are!
        Do you deny what the NAZIs did? Perhaps not, I do not know HOW far your evil goes! You strut in front of a mirror wearing NAZI gear for all I know!

        What I DO know is that you ignore the roots of NAZI, and other, evil, mass-murdering authoritarianism! You, like Hitler and the NAZIs and other evil authoritarians, start out by assuming that YOU know whose life is worthy, and whose is not! Then you move on to sterilization and killing! It all starts out by denying the value of other human lives! And if you can’t or won’t see and acknowledge that, you’re a deluded and EVIL Holocaust denier, same as Rob Misek!

        You and and your fuckbuddies also run around telling people to commit suicide! I have NEVER been THAT evil! Nor even THOUGHT about saying that to people! Take stock of your SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP SOUL, Evil One Junior! Start by reading this: M. Scott Peck, the Hope for Healing Human Evil, https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/

        1. It’s fun being lectured on morality by a drunken pedophile welfare queen who has openly advocated for race riots and the mass murder of his political enemies.

          If you had a nut in your sack or a brain in your skull you’d kill yourself out of the immense guilt for raping your poor daughter and proxy-robbing your neighbors to maintain your despicable and loathsome existence, but if you had enough honor and integrity to feel guilty about your crimes and immorality you probably wouldn’t be fucking your daughter, robbing your neighbors and advocating mass murder in the first place.

          1. From http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/MATT+23.html Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.

            See just HOW old and sad it is?

            In conclusion, “nice guys finish last”, in view of human history and the deaths of Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., the better statement might be “nice guys get killed”! This is the more honest and complete version of the statement!

            I don’t doubt that some of you hate-filled assholes would kill me if you knew that you could get away with it. Good thing it is that we have the internet, and anonymity, these days! No wonder that you assholes would ALSO take THAT away from us, by killing Section 230, and, Marxist-style, have Government Almighty take over private property, in the form of privately owned web sites!

            Assholes do and speak as assholes are! More news at 11:00!

            1. Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. still never aspired to prophecy you historically illiterate drunken pedophile. I already helped you out on this one an hour ago. Just imagine how much better you would be at sucking corporate cock and regurgitating Democratic Underground talking points if you could actually fucking read. Go sober up and then head to your local priest to ask that messiah you’ve confused yourself with for forgiveness for raping your daughter you sick piece of shit.

              1. From https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201016-why-some-people-are-cruel-to-others : “Yet there is a hidden upside of do-gooder derogation. Once we have pulled down the do-gooder, we are more open to their message. ” End quote. .

                It’s not a HUGE amount of good news, but at least SOME good news. AFTER we have killed Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., and they are DEAD men, and can NOT possibly steal our women any more, THEN we are free to FINALLY listen safely to their messages!

                Hey asshole! Relax! Just Because I am Right and You are Wrong, Doesn’t Mean that I Want to Steal ‘Your’ Woman!

                Or, in your case, your blow-up doll! TRY and stop thinking with your knuckle-dragging troglodyte so-called “brain”!

                The knuckle-dragging troglodytes among us, on the internet, even when we know darned well that most of the commenters are anonymous, go into an instinctually-driven mode of “punish the people who are wise, benevolent, and correct”, and make them look bad! Else they might steal my wife or girlfriend, and make my babies”! It is knee-jerk stupidity, on a largely-anonymous chat board, but there it is!

                1. The EVIL one made me take the pills that give me bad dreams about Tumpanzees in my bed eating NON-fecal dinners, but I outsmarted them and hid my pill under my tongue (Which wasn’t very hard to do either, Trumpanstratorshit). I am good to not listen to the Tumpanzees as there are side effects which can be demonstrated HERE:
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Adverse_effects

                  1. Hey Tulpa…

                    Is your latest voice that of you as Evil 0O0One Junior, or Evil O0O0ne Junior? Some of are smart enough to smell the lies of you AND your boss, the Father of Lies, you know, liar! ID thief! Cesspool of lies and hate!

                    What, exactly, do you think that you’re earning for yourself, serving the Father of Lies? Do you think your Big Dadda is gonna share its imaginary hate-POWER with you, or what?

                    If THAT is your illusion, please go study THIS! So many of us fantasize that our support of those who we think is (or will be) the “winner” will earn us the support of the “winners” and their spoils.
                    See “the night of the long knives” at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives… Ernst Röhm (head brownshirt, street brawler, for Hitler) thought his support of Hitler would leave him sitting pretty. So sorry, Ernst Röhm, Hitler had another thing coming for you…
                    Right here on Reason.com comments, we see the same thing. The “brownshirts” of the commentary (Nards, etc.) try to brownshirt their enemies off of the comments board, tell their enemies to commit suicide, and other “street fighting”. And Tulpa ad ID theft. They, I suspect, expect payback (war spoils) from “winning” Orange Hitler, just as Ernst Röhm did from “winning” Hitler. And yes, the Father of Lies as well!

                    1. fuck off sarcasmic

                    2. Damiksec Dashitsec, leave me and my daughter and her fragrant cotton panties out of this you PERVERT.
                      https://churchofsqrls.com/my_daughters_panties

                      Dr. Jennifer (the lying WHORE) and my ex-wife’s lawyers might keep old Melvin down but they can NOT stop him!

                    3. It’s fun being explained the history of the brownshirts by a piece of shit lying drunken pedophile who spent an entire year advocating for race riots and the mass murder of people who disagree with his insane radical Marxist politics.

                      Go sober up sarcasmic. And leave your daughter alone for once you sick piece of shit.

                    4. SQRLSY 0ne
                      March.21.2021 at 3:25 pm

                      Hey people, don’t click on the above link, posted by EVIL LIAR who stole my ID… Note ZERO not OH in the “One”… It is a DANGEROUS LINK! Don’t click it!

          2. Hey man, he is going to pretend to buy a gun with his stimulus, won’t you be his friend?

    2. What happened on February 6th? Your senile savior was firmly ensconced by then. Are you emulating his senility out of solidarity?

      1. Which one of the commenters here is this nutjob?

        Are you the Neo-Nazi Klansman Thrust/Shitlord?

        1. Not sure the guy that got kicked off Reason for posting links to kiddie porn should be calling anyone a nutjob.

          1. That’s not why they kicked me off peanuts, I can post as much as I want and Reason doesn’t care.
            In another 10 years I’ll be accepted as LGBTQ+ and then we’ll see who the sick bigot is.

            1. Notice that he’s given up the pretense that he’s anything other than a child raping piece of shit.

              1. Imposter buttplug there.

                I am the authentic buttplug, Shitlord.

    3. Yes. Cleanest election ever is far more believable. Ignore the dozen lawsuits won that have actually said the changes to the election made last year were illegal, such as Michigan last week.

      Youre an idiot.

    1. This is the same Cass Sunstein who has advocated for mass sterilization through municipal water supplies and has been a perennial Reason favorite ever since he coined the term “libertarian paternalism”. But Ron Paul is a dangerous racist fascist. Don’t you ever forget it.

  8. Free speech is an inalienable right, your feelings aren’t. It belongs to the possessor and can’t be taken or given away. That means we take our rights with us everywhere we go. Our rights supersede all other interests.

    Why are we allowing traitors to violate our constitutional rights to favour their feelings or financial interests?

    Lies though, are coercion. They compel people under the false authority of truth to act in the liars interest instead of their own.

    Lying can be criminalized in an environment of 1a just like irresponsible gun use is criminalized in an environment of 2a.

    The default must be allowing people to speak freely and if a law is broken then due process in court not private or state vigilantism is required.

    1. Congress shall pass no law…

      Fuck you’re stupid.

      1. Are you suggesting that the courts violate the constitution by criminalizing perjury?

        Dipshit.

  9. “Because he omits this facet of opinion formation, Sunstein is blind to a paradox: Government leaders may be the ones spreading false information, yet Sunstein wants to empower the government to find out exactly who is spreading falsehoods and punish them.”

    The end result of which will be that “misinformation” will be classified as information that government does not want the public to know. Whether the information is false will not be a relevant consideration, and government spread falsehoods will be excused as noble lies.

    1. “Misinformation” is rapidly becoming “disinformation”, which was a term of art in the Soviet Union.

    2. That’s why it requires an environment of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, which currently ONLY ostensibly exists in court.

      We expect the government to lie, sad but true, but the shit will hit the fan when the courts do.

    3. As far as state secrets go, they don’t supersede our inalienable right to free speech.

      If the corrupt want to keep a secret and lie about it, that’s on them, they can’t coerce anyone to abdicate 1a.

      Hell, nations are only enemies because of the lies they tell and the secrets they keep. No citizen has a rational inherent desire to kill another.

      1. “Hell, nations are only enemies because of the lies they tell and the secrets they keep.”

        No, nations become enemies because they have conflicting interests, like any other persons or groups of people.

        1. Conflicting interests? We all have common interests that are more important.

          Rational people have conflicting interests which are resolved all the time without becoming enemies.

          No, our corrupt interests motivate us to lie and keep secrets to others to avoid honest resolutions to perceived conflicts.

          Give any example of a conflict that you think necessitates enemies and I’ll show you a rational resolution.

  10. Speaking of misinformation, it strains credulity to call that an insurrection.

    We heard for four years about how Trump was sending dog whistle commands to all of these white supremacist militias armed to the teeth, and then some unarmed baby boomers show up at the Capitol to ask for the election results to be audited and it’s somehow an insurrection?

    1. And “an attack that left five people dead” is deliberate misinformation, when four of the dead were on the “attacking” side.

      1. “an attack that left five people dead” is the literal truth.

        How would you phrase the death of those five people, in as a neutral and objective manner as possible?

        1. No, the attack only caused one death, that caused by the police. 3 of them were outside not on Capitol grounds and died from health issues. The other died of a stroke not caused by injury a day later.

          Youre full of bullshit.

          1. So, five people died, as I said.

            1. no you said “an attack that left five people dead” is the literal truth”

              which is a lie.

            2. You said the attack caused it you retarded obese fuck.

              1. Learn to read.

                “an attack that left five people dead”

                1. We only know of four, the jury’s still out on whether or not Sicknick’s death was even remotely related.

              2. And this is where you cry and whine about a statement that is the LITERAL truth – there was an attack, and 5 people really did die – because it makes Team Red look bad. Just a part of the usual playbook: when the truth makes your team look bad, whine about media bias.

                1. How does that make team red look bad?
                  Team blue shot a girl in the head.
                  Three other deaths were unrelated to the protests.
                  And it’s looking like Officer Sicknick’s death was falsely attributed too.

                  All we can say for sure regarding your allegation, is that you guys killed a woman.

                2. No, you’re a lying piece of shit. The “attack” did not leave anyone dead except for the unarmed white woman who was shot in the face by a black capitol cop despite having a 4-man SWAT team standing less than 10 feet behind her with 4 M4 assault rifles trained on her back. 4 other people died on the same day, near the same location, of unrelated causes, hours after the “attack”. What you said is a lie because it makes a causal connection between things that are not causally related. It would be no different than saying “the capitol attack “left 1,794 people dead” because 1,794 people died on January 6th from heart disease.

                  On the other hand, the Antifa/BLM riots that you supported for the entire past year were directly, causally, provably responsible for 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage. It would be accurate to say “The BLM/Antifa riots that took place throughout the entirety of 2020 with the vocal and adamant support of cytotoxic left 3 dozen people dead”. It would be inaccurate to say “The BLM/Antifa riots that took place throughout the entirety of 2020 with the vocal and adamant support of cytotoxic left 655,000 people dead” just because 655,000 people happened to die of heart disease at the same time as the BLM/Antifa riots that took place throughout the entirety of 2020 with the vocal and adamant support of cytotoxic.

  11. No, it was not just a few random tweets that caused people to go to DC. It was the culmination of a years-long effort on the part of Team Red to get their supporters to turn off more reputable forms of news in favor of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Breitbart, Fox News, and of course Trump himself.

    This is a really great report about polarization in news consumption itself. I recommend everyone read it.

    https://www.journalism.org/2020/01/24/u-s-media-polarization-and-the-2020-election-a-nation-divided/

    From that survey, it’s clear that Republicans only trust a small number of “news” sources, if you can call talk radio shows “news” sources. Democrats trust a much wider variety of news sources. So when Republicans hear, over and over again, from the same news sources they have come to trust for years, that “the election was stolen” and there was “massive fraud” and the like, why wouldn’t they believe it?

    1. It was that text scroll at the bottom on Hannity’s show most likely, subliminal commands like “attack the Capitol” and “rise up and overturn the government, now!”

      1. No mind-control subliminal messaging required. That is my point. It was a years-long effort to get people to turn off more reputable news sources and to get them to listen only to the right-wing narrative of things.

        1. Lol. Reputable. When you deny you blindly accept media narratives remember this post here. When multiple left journalists have called out what you call reputable, you should start to question it. But you dont, you eat it up like it was cake. Greenwald, Taibbi, Weiss, and many others have all talked about how thebmedia is nothing but propaganda at this point, yet you eat it up and call it reputable.

          In the words of Ken, you’re a fucking idiot.

          1. Yeah I get it Jesse – some left-wing journalists don’t like the modern state of journalism, therefore SEAN HANNITY IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF TRUTH NOW. God you are pathetic.

            See this is precisely the problem here. The mainstream media is of course not without its faults. They do make mistakes. They do have a herd mentality – whatever the trending topic is, they follow it, even if it isn’t all that newsworthy or important. They do give more serious consideration to left-wing ‘woke’ topics than right-wing topics. They are sensationalist at times. And the right-wing media is more than happy to point all that out. But then the more unsavory elements – the Breitbarts, the Sean Hannitys – they weaponize it even further, tell their listeners that they are not just flawed, but LIARS who cannot be trusted AT ALL and that they should get all of their news from right-wing sources which tells them only the news in a way that makes them feel good. They exploit the flaws in major media journalism to push propaganda and narratives of their own. It really is not much different than when the radical Team Blue types tell people that they can’t trust anything they read in the “corporate press” and so only trust the Worker’s Socialist Daily or something.

            Responsible individuals would reject the propagandists on both the left and the right and use a little bit of media literacy critical thinking. We can’t count on you to be responsible, Jesse.

            1. “SEAN HANNITY IS THE GOLD STANDARD OF TRUTH NOW. ”

              I looked but can’t find where he said that.

              “God you are pathetic.”

              Well, you’re the one lying about his argument.

            2. When have I ever quoted Hannity fatty?

              1. In his fevered dreams where he wakes up in sweats thinking about you and then de-crusts his fetid microchode for a marathon 35 second wank session before he falls asleep to the soothing, sculptural rhythms of Jon Oliver monologues.

        2. Explain to me how you can have a “bubble” consisting of one TV news channel and a handful of radio stations, but somehow the establishment media bubble of 12 networks and a hundred magazines and papers, isn’t.

        3. Now tell us all about how Trump colluded with Russia to hack the 2016 election. Remember how you said that literally every day for 4 consecutive years because you heard it every day multiple times per day from Democratic Underground, Daily Kos, Washington Post, CNN and NPR, which are the only places you obtain your news?

          B-b-b-b-b-but MY BUBBLE IS THE TRUTH BUBBLE! YER BUBBLE IS THE LIE BUBBLE!

          I’M NOT PROJECTING, YOU’RE PROJECTING!!!!!!!!!!!!

    2. Democrats trust a much wider variety of news sources” news sources that use the same talking points is one source not a wider variety

  12. And I guess the new right-wing position on rioting is that Every Riot Is Exactly The Same.

    The riots that led to the October Revolution in 1917 Russia were exactly the same as the riots after the Detroit Pistons won the NBA Finals in 1990. Exactly the same people!

    1. Explain to me how you figure it’s not legitimate to compare political protests over the last year, in the same country, revolving around the same issues, involving the same political actors?

      Do you even understand how much of a desperate idiot you look like, trying to equate that to different issues, a century ago, on the other side of the world?

      1. OH, so every riot is NOT exactly the same then? If we’re going to compare riots, we should do so on an apples-to-apples basis? Well then, finally we agree on something! Let’s see…

        to compare political protests

        Yes, BLM riots and Jan. 6 riots may both be fairly called “political protests”.

        over the last year,

        Yes, BLM riots and Jan. 6 riots both occurred over the last year, broadly speaking.

        in the same country,

        Yes, BLM riots and Jan. 6 riots both occurred in the same country, broadly speaking.

        revolving around the same issues,

        Nope. Didn’t involve the same issues. BLM protesters were protesting against what they perceived to be the unjust behavior of the police. Jan. 6 protesters were trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power between administrations. Quite different.

        involving the same political actors?

        Not the same political actors, for the most part, either. I suppose Trump was nominally in charge for both of them, but there were very different loci of decision making for both sets of protests, both on the government side and on the protester side.

        So I am glad that we can finally agree that the doctrine of Every Riot Is Exactly The Same can be put to bed as a false nullity, and instead, think about comparing riots on an apples-to-apples basis only.

        I would say that protesting trying to combat police brutality is a different type of protest than protesting trying to overturn an election that the protesters don’t like. Wouldn’t you agree?

        1. Jan 6 illustrates conservatives disdain for our legal system and Constitution.

          1. Yes, this! Conservatives no longer give a hoot about conserving democracy and peaceful transfers of power! They ONLY care about conserving their own political POWER!

            1. Aw you’re mad that they wouldn’t let you violate the Constitution!

              1. Aw you’re mad that they wouldn’t let the trumpanzees gone apeshit replace democracy with mobocracy!

                1. Aw you’re VERY mad that they wouldn’t let you violate the Constitution!

                  CRY MORE!

                  1. (People, NEVER waste your time using facts or other persuasions on ideologically-driven idiots!)

                    Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
                    How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?

                    Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!

                    So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!

                    “Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
                    Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)

                    (Etc.)

                    See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/#comment-8316852

                    1. Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM

                      Cancel culture is a LIE because intersectional feminists AND race hustlers are the most compassionate people after Adolph Hitler.
                      I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!
                      https://churchofsqrls.com/me_and_hitler_are_pals

                    2. Hey people, don’t click on the above link, posted by EVIL LIAR who stole my ID… Note ZERO not OH in the “One”… It is a DANGEROUS LINK! Don’t click it!

                    3. Oh shit guys look out, it’s the weekend and now that sarcasmic has finished off his handle of Walmart-brand bottom shelf vodka he’s been “hacked” again!

          2. “disdain for our legal system and Constitution.”

            You mean like the illegal changes to election laws?

            Oh shit I shut you the fuck up!

            Watch as you pathetically mewl at me because I prison raped you rhetorically!

            1. A dozen lawsuits have now said changes made through courts or the executive branches were illegal. Let’s see of jeff notices.

        2. Heh. Only if you consider Oregon the “same country”. A lot of them would take offense to that. /s

          Actually I was thinking why Portland? It is a smallish out of the way place where hardly anything happens. Funny place for a race riot only a tiny black community.

          Then I realized that is exactly why. Like robbing a bank in the middle of nowhere instead of the one in the center of town.

          1. Portland is a culturally important city, the 26th largest city in the United States, 6th largest city on the west coast, and 2nd largest city in the Pacific Northwest behind Seattle with a metro population of 2.4 million. The reason this shit is going on in Portland is the same reason it’s going on in Seattle and Minneapolis: the local government is on the side of the violent radical left wing psychopaths and allows them to murder, assault, rape, loot, steal, burn and destroy with legal impunity.

            If you want to try to downplay the race riots you supported all year that resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage, you should have gone with Kenosha: a pissant bedroom community that nobody outside of a 10 mile radius of the city had ever heard of until it erupted into months of violence that left the downtown corridor looking like Dresden in 1945.

        3. BLM protesters were protesting against what they perceived to be the unjust behavior of the police. Jan. 6 protesters were trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power between administrations. Quite different.

          Murdering 3 dozen people was a reasonable and understandable reaction to perceived unjust behavior of the police. Breaking some windows was not a reaction to perceived injustices regarding blatantly unconstitutional voting roles imposed in a handful of important swing states. No sir! That was an attempt to stop the peaceful transfer power between administrations. Breaking some windows at the capitol could very well have resulted in the dissolution of the USA. DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE NOW!!!!!!!

          So I am glad that we can finally agree that the doctrine of Every Riot Is Exactly The Same can be put to bed as a false nullity

          Yes, we are all thrilled that you slayed the strawman you invented out of whole cloth for the purposes of this argument. Good job!

          and instead, think about comparing riots on an apples-to-apples basis only.

          Great idea! Let’s compare the series of year-long violent radical left wing demonstrations that murdered 3 dozen people, assaulted hundreds more, raped several women, and caused 2 billion dollars worth of property damage to the “insurrection” on January 6th that resulted in an unarmed woman being shot in the face despite having a 4-man SWAT team standing less than 10 feet behind her with M4 assault rifles trained on her back and caused 30 million dollars worth of broken windows.

          I would say that protesting trying to combat police brutality is a different type of protest than protesting trying to overturn an election that the protesters don’t like. Wouldn’t you agree?

          Yes, I would agree that radical left wing Marxist groups murdering 3 dozen people, assaulting hundreds more, raping several women, and burning down 2 billion dollars worth of private property was quite different than a half dozen BLM and Antifa-affiliated protestors smashing some windows at the capitol, allowing 300 people to wander through the capitol building until one of them got shot in the face. We can fully agree that one of these things is very much not like the other. I’m glad you could finally come around! And all it took was for you to give up a strawman that existed only in your mind. See how easy?

          1. Well then.

            Which set of riots cost more in property damage? Well, the BLM riots, of course.

            Which set of riots cost more in terms of lives lost? Well, the BLM riots, of course.

            Which set of riots threatened to subvert the democratic will of the voters and stop the peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next? That would be the Jan. 6 riots.

            So instead of minimizing what the Jan. 6 riots were about, you should understand why people were so upset about THAT riot as opposed to other riots. Because not all riots are the same.

            No matter how many buildings that BLM burned down in Portland, there was never any doubt that the will of the voters would prevail in November’s election.

            So by focusing on the body count, or on the cost of property damage, as terrible as those things were, it ignores the most important difference between the BLM riots and the Jan. 6 riot, in a way intended to purposefully obfuscate and minimize this most important difference.

            The reason why so many people are so upset about the Jan. 6 riots in a way that they weren’t upset about BLM riots or other riots, is not about the property damage. Some of us do not like it when the symbol of US democracy itself is attacked in an attempt to stop the peaceful transition of power between administrations because a mob is unhappy with the election results. That kind of crap isn’t supposed to happen here. That is banana republic level bullshit. And yet it did happen here. It was horrifying to watch in a way that was far different than the BLM riots.

            1. Which set of riots threatened to subvert the democratic will of the voters and stop the peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next? .

              Set of riots? There was one riot on January 6th. And it never threatened to subvert the democratic will of the voters and stop the peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next. See, the problem is that you’re a lying piece of shit and your fallacious logical constructions only work when your premise is assumed. That’s called “begging the question”.

              By all means though, please, PLEASE keep insisting that there is a moral equivalent between smashing out some windows and wandering around an empty building and murdering 3 dozen people. I want you to do that as often as you possibly can.

              1. And it never threatened to subvert the democratic will of the voters and stop the peaceful transition of power from one administration to the next.

                Is this where you call the rioters just tourists taking selfies and ignore all the ones who came armed and with plans to do real harm?

      2. EVERY RIOT IS THE SAME!

        It’s Lying Jeffy’s new favorite lie.

        1. He is too dumb to know the blm riots were far worse.

          Persistent riots night after night. Going to politicians houses. Attacking diners nightly. Far more intimidation than a 1 hour protest in the rotunda.

          Fatty is too dumb to understand this though. In fact riots on Portland and LA persisted even this year.

        2. It’s hilarious that he made up this utterly retarded strawman that bears literally no resemblance to anything anyone here has ever said, and then knocked it down in such a way that draw even further attention to the distinct differences between the nothingburger “insurrection” of January 6th and the year-long campaign of coordinated left wing violence he supported that resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage.

          Newsflash you retarded prick: YOU are the one who has been insisting that the “insurrection” on January 6th is comparable – but, of course, far worse! – to the year-long campaign of left wing violence you supported. It’s your opponents who have been keen to draw a strong comparison between the left wing campaign of violence you supported throughout the entirety of 2020 and the unarmed “insurrection” that lasted 2 hours and resulted in exactly one death: an unarmed woman at the hands of a praetorian guard despite a 4-man SWAT team standing less than 10 feet behind her with M4 assault rifles trained on her back. We’re all thrilled that you now see there is a colossally fucking huge difference between 300 unarmed people in plastic helmets vandalizing the capitol building and a coordinated campaign of left wing violence that resulted in 3 dozen murders, hundreds of assaults, multiple rapes, and 2 billion dollars worth of property damage.

  13. Four men linked to Proud Boys charged in plot to attack Capitol
    Federal prosecutors unsealed new conspiracy charges against them, alleging they played roles in planning the group’s actions during the Capitol riot.

    Four men described as leaders of the far-right Proud Boys have been charged in the U.S. Capitol riot, as an indictment ordered unsealed on Friday presents fresh evidence of how federal officials believe group members planned and carried out a coordinated attack to stop Congress from certifying President Joe Biden’s electoral victory.

    So far, at least 19 leaders, members or associates of the neo-fascist Proud Boys have been charged in federal court with offenses related to the Jan. 6 riot. The latest indictment suggests the Proud Boys deployed a much larger contingent in Washington, with over 60 users “participating in” an encrypted messaging channel for group members that was created a day before the riots.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-men-linked-proud-boys-charged-plot-attack-capitol-n1261664

    Trump fascism is the modern GOP.

    1. But but but what about the 80 bazillion people arrested from Antifa? Huh? WHATABOUT ALL OF THEM??????????????????

      1. Youre batching about 4 people? Lol. God damn. And yet you deny the blm riots. How fucking pathetic.

        1. There have been about 300 Jan 6 insurrectionist arrests.

          BLM rioters should have been arrested for property destruction too. Certainly no one disputes that.

          1. You did six months ago.

            1. Bullshit. And I have always called BLM “rioters” and not protestors. Would you stop lying?

              I don’t take the Marxist label seriously though. Just because one of them was a Marxist doesn’t mean they are not rioting out of cop brutality directed against them. They are correct to oppose that.

              1. “And I have always called BLM “rioters” and not protestors”

                link?

              2. Cite just one.

                1. Why should anyone provide any cite about anything for YOU, liar? You’ll just keep on lying, telling the SAME lies, over and over and over again, anyway! You mind will NEVER change, because you already perfectly know everything, Perfect One!

                  And lies don’t matter, in Your Perfect Mind!

                  Readers, beware! Do not be deceived by JesseAZ! JesseAZ does NOT believe that LIES are bad in ANY way! Only ACTIONS matter, ethically or morally! … https://reason.com/2020/01/01/trumps-inartful-dodges/#comment-8068406
                  “Words are words dumbfuck. Actions are where morals and ethics lie.”, says JesseAZ. When confronted with offers of hush money, illegal commands (from a commanding military officer), offers of murder for hire, libel, slander, lies in court, yelling “fire” in a crowded theater, inciting riots, fighting words, forged signatures, threatening to kill elected officials, false representations concerning products or services for sale… these are all “merely” cases of “using words”. Just like the Evil One (AKA “Father of Lies”), Jesse says lies are all A-OK and utterly harmless! So do NOT believe ANYTHING that you hear from JesseAZ!

                  Also according to the same source, JesseAZ is TOTALLY on board with dictatorship (presumably so long as it is an “R” dictator that we are talking of).
                  With reference to Trump, JesseAZ says…
                  “He is not constitutionally bound on any actions he performed.”

                  1. Hey look, sarcasmic when he can’t support his arguments with facts degenerates into gibbering copypasta. Let us all remember this moment when he demands citations for every syllable he has ever uttered on this site the next time he gets called out for his blatant and unapologetic lying.

                    1. With reference to Trump, JesseAZ says…
                      “He is not constitutionally bound on any actions he performed.”

                      And ***I*** am the liar?!?! WTF is wrong with you? How stupid do you think that non-Trumpistas are?

                    2. You could link to the comment you’re (mis)quoting with the surrounding context, but you haven’t. I wonder why? Of course, even if JesseAZ had said that, it wouldn’t make him a liar. Good god but you’re stupid. I wonder how many years of therapy your daughter is going to need to get over the fact that she not only got raped for most of her childhood by a man that was supposed to protect her, but that the man who betrayed her trust and serially raped her was also clinically retarded.

                    3. Hey Surging Benightedness… I already posted the below MANY times, including on THIS exact same page!

                      Are YOU gonna apologize for YOUR lying, Oh Self-Styled Perfect One?

                      See https://reason.com/2020/01/01/trumps-inartful-dodges/#comment-8068520 , where
                      Der JesseBahnFuhrer says, of Trump, “He is not constitutionally bound on any actions he performed.”

                      Hey JesseBahnFuhrer! Is this statement of yours, above, now applicable to Biden? Or is only Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFuhrer qualified to be our dictator? If so, why?

              3. I’d support it if all of the kids you’ve fucked dragged you outside, cut your fetid dick off and shoved it down your throat before you beating you to death with baseball bats you sick degenerate kiddie pornographer.

                1. Jesus killer here is a real tuff gai! Protecting the galaxy from your imaginary enemies much, psychopath?

      2. They’re cool, it wouldn’t do for the narrative and the crackdown if you guys arrested them.

  14. So Gillespie was out lying and giving succor to CCP narratives on Bill Maher yesterday:

    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-on-atlanta-area-massage-parlor-shootings-what-if-it-isnt-a-hate-crime

    “Gillespie then knocked former President Trump, accusing Trump of using “racist” rhetoric that branded the coronavirus as Chinese, but also stressed that “turning this particular instance into something which it may not, that in the end will not help you reach out to people who are racist.””

    Firstly, even the WHO still hasn’t ruled against theory that coronavirus escaped from Wuhan lab (see attached story), and some European countries are saying that they believe chances are likely.

    Secondly, calling a disease after where it was first noted isn’t racist. Lyme disease was first diagnosed in Old Lyme, Connecticut and isn’t racist against Connecticans. German measles isn’t racist against Germans. West Nile virus was named after a province in Uganda and isn’t racist against West Nile Ugandans. The Ebola virus was discovered near the Ebola River and isn’t racist against Congolese. Rocky Mountain spotted fever doesn’t slurs Coloradans. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)isn’t racist to Arabs.

    The Wuhan Virus wasn’t racist against Chinese until the Chinese Communist party started its latest propaganda.
    This tells us everything we need to know about Gillespie’s statement.

      1. Maybe Gillespie just hates Neo-Nazi Trump conservatives like I do. Every libertarian ought to despise fascists and socialists.

        No one is saying the GOP is conducting a Nazi style genocide – instead they just have the same nationalist/ethnic belief system and they are “Proud” boys.

        1. But your the actual Neo-Nazi, Buttplug.
          In the past year, right here in the comments, you’ve advocated for corporatism, gun-control, abortion, infanticide, eugenics, euthanasia, internment camps, reeducation centers and Critical Race Theory.

          The multi-ethnic “Proud Boys” are pretty much MLK compared to you.

          Maybe it’s time for you to find a new slur?

          1. Holy shit, what a pack of lies.

            I’ve even complained about the GOP gun bans your party supports. I see no need to ban guns based on the material they are made or like you Republicans do.

            1. “I’ve even complained about the GOP gun bans your party supports”

              link?

            2. “I’ve even complained about the GOP gun bans your party supports”
              And shilled for the DNC gun bans which were infinitely worse; and don’t pretend for a second that you haven’t, you mealy-mouthed liar.

        2. Nobody cares who you do or do not hate because you a kiddie fucker who posted hardcore kiddie porn and got banned from this site you sick degenerate piece of subhuman shit.

          You

          Fuck

          Children

          Game over. Shut the fuck up. Your opinion means nothing to anyone. You fuck children. You are a kiddie fucker. Even fellow rapists and criminals hold you beneath contempt.

    1. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/reason-viruses-aren-t-named-after-locations-because-progress-experts-n1165366

      In understanding the implications previous naming practices have had, the World Health Organization itself revised its own conventions, even warning media and scientists to do so, as well, in 2015.

      “In recent years, several new human infectious diseases have emerged. The use of names such as ‘swine flu’ and ‘Middle East Respiratory Syndrome’ has had unintended negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors,” said Dr. Keiji Fukuda, who was the assistant director-general for health security at the WHO at the time.

      He added that while naming may seem like a “trivial issue” to some, the matter does have serious consequences.

      “We’ve seen certain disease names provoke a backlash against members of particular religious or ethnic communities, create unjustified barriers to travel, commerce and trade, and trigger needless slaughtering of food animals,” he said. “This can have serious consequences for peoples’ lives and livelihoods.”

      1. I blame global warming climate change.

      2. Why do I care what the WHO thinks about naming? Mother’s mention of the WHO didn’t address that fucktard.

        They’re the speech police now? Fuck you AND them AND the Wuhan Flu your boys set on us.

      3. Holy fucking shor you are retarded. Again you go with the “reputable” narrative instead of the shooters own admission and his family and friends stating the same.

        You are such a dumb lefty fuck. You dismiss facts and accept propaganda so easily.

      4. “The use of names such as ‘swine flu’ and ‘Middle East Respiratory Syndrome’ has had unintended negative impacts by stigmatizing certain communities or economic sectors,”

        Dr. Keiji Fukuda is a paid CCP stooge using the magic of intersectionality to try to shut the barn door after the fact, and my point still stands.

        Hell, this reinforces it…

        Thank’s chemjeff.

        1. LOL

          “I’m always right, and anyone who disagrees is a paid stooge of my enemies”

          1. ???

            How did that article disagree with what I said? The argument there is that because the CCP complained, suddenly location naming “could have serious consequences”, and then they list a bunch of potentialities that haven’t actually ever happened.
            But it doesn’t dispute the fact that it was a historical naming convention until right now, and just because the CCP says it’s bad, doesn’t make it so.

            1. Uh oh, I think you left your sock on.

              1. Yeah, sigh.

            2. SQRLSY 0ne
              March.21.2021 at 3:55 pm
              ???

              How did that article disagree with what I said? The argument there is that because the CCP complained, suddenly location naming “could have serious consequences”, and then they list a bunch of potentialities that haven’t actually ever happened.
              But it doesn’t dispute the fact that it was a historical naming convention until right now, and just because the CCP says it’s bad, doesn’t make it so.

    2. Meh I don’t care what they call it.

      Take precautions and get the vaccine when you can. I hate this virus. Fight it.

      1. What if I don’t get the vaccine because I’m under 70 and have a 1/10 of 1% chance of dying of this virus in the event that I ever contract it, which is about a 50% shot with basic hygiene and sanitation? Can I still go about my business without you siccing armed agents of the state upon me, or does my liberty end where your pussy bitching begins, Eichmann?

    3. Actually I doubt it was a hate crime. Those places are staffed by Asian women so all of the victims were Asian. He had been to them. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that as reported it was an act of a sexually frustrated psychopath.

  15. The earth is flat = the election was secure.
    The earth is round = the election was rigged.

    All the numbers point to the earth is round and the election was rigged in swing states. But we’ll never know that the earth is round until someone takes the time to travel all the way around it.

    Ironically; in the context of ‘election was rigged’ the new ‘misinformation’ dictation is NO-ONE is allowed to travel.

    Oh how the USA has changed; instead of pursuing the truth many just want to mask-it-off with Gov-Gun forces. THE EARTH IS FLAT – ANY NEW INFORMATION IS TERRORISM – ANY TRAVELING IS INSURRECTION! F-OFF Lefties!

    1. No actually it was known from ancient times by simple observations.

      A lunar eclipse. If it were flat it would appear as a band, not a round disk.

      A ship sailing into the distance does not fade away it appears to gradually sink.

      A sunset. If you are near a tall object like a mountain or tree watch until the sun sinks just below the horizon. Then climb and you can see the edge again. That would not happen if it were flat. It would be below the edge at any elevation.

      I don’t really care what people believe about the election. It is over and now we have to deal with the results. Great. My girl lost as I knew she would but I can live with that. Sometimes it is better to stand up for what you believe in that to give in to what you don’t.

      1. “My girl lost as I knew she would but I can live with that. Sometimes it is better to stand up for what you believe in that to give in to what you don’t.”

        Amen.

    2. And wouldn’t you know it, the earth is neither flat nor perfectly round. It’s an ellipsoid, a slightly distorted sphere.

      So your analogy actually works perfectly. The election was neither “the most secure in history”, nor was the election full of “MASSIVE FRAUD”.

      1. And yet you’ve spoken loudly about no audits on the election at all to figure out how much. Weird.

        1. It is a moot point though. It is over and done. This is the process we have. It is not perfect. Never was and never will be.

          It was wrong for trump to continue on with his denial even after it was clear what the outcome was. If people want to enact changes then there is legal power to do that.

          What really happened is it has only hurt the Republican Party. That is not a good thing for the country.

          1. Echospinner summarized —
            “Pursuing Election Integrity hurts the Republican Party, It’s Wrong, Not good thing for the country?”

            That really SAYS it all right there doesn’t it. The lefty slogan for elections —
            “BALLOT Integrity BAD….. BALLOT FRAUD GOOD!”

            1. The problem is, Team Red went so far in with the conspiracy nonsense about STOLEN ELECTION and MASSIVE FRAUD that to a lot of people, ‘election integrity’ is just code for ‘conspiracy theory nuttiness’ at best, and ‘voter suppression’ at worst.

              See, this is just like with BLM and the “Defund the Police” movement. They shot themselves in the foot when they decided that they didn’t just want to reform the police, they wanted to abolish it altogether (at least some of them did). It’s the same thing with Team Red. They are shooting themselves in the foot when they continue on with the crank nuttiness about the election.

              1. Actually about 70% of the US population believes the election was fraudulent. The problem is that you’re a lying piece of shit making things up to rationalize your support for fraudulent elections by casting any suspicion of election irregularities as conspiracy theorizing. Which is ironic since you still to this day believe the Russian collusion hysteria for which the man who committed fraud by fabricating knowingly false information on a FISA warrant in order to spy on a rival political campaign has pleaded guilty and would be serving jail time if not for the leniency of a judge in the same jurisdiction where Michael Flynn was sentenced to a decade in prison for a process crime that we now know due to government disclosures never occurred.

                1. Actually about 70% of the US population believes the election was fraudulent.

                  Really? You have a poll demonstrating this?

                  1. I was off because I mixed up the numbers of Republicans and independent voters with the overall number, but yes, I do have a poll demonstrating that the majority voters believe there was voter fraud in the 2020 election.

                    1. So you lied about the 70% number.

                      And you lied when you claimed that 70% believed “the election was fraudulent”. Believing that there was *some* fraud is not the same as believing that the election as a whole was fraudulent.

                      Try again, this time with fewer lies.

            2. He said “hurt” not “hurts”. Your tacking that that “s” on the end changes the entire meaning of the sentence.

          2. It is a moot point though. It is over and done.

            What difference at this point does it make?!?!?!?!?!??!?!

            We should never have investigated Enron. After all, the company went bankrupt. it was over and done. No reason for an audit.

        2. Can you cite where chemjeff has ever said he thinks audits should be forbidden?

          1. Sealioning

            A subtle form of trolling involving “bad-faith” questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. If your bait is successful, the other party may engage, painstakingly laying out their logic and evidence in the false hope of helping someone learn. In fact you are attempting to harass or waste the time of the other party, and have no intention of truly entertaining their point of view. Instead, you react to each piece of information by misinterpreting it or requesting further clarification, ad nauseum.

            Hey remember upthread when you outed this sock for about the 247,000th time by replying to me as White Knight when the comment was addressed to chemjeff? It’s dumb enough to try to maintain the pretense in different threads after you’ve outed yourself, but in the same thread where you’ve outed yourself? For the love of sarcasmic/Jesus Christ of Nazareth bro, give it up.

          2. LOL Jesse doesn’t do that. He throws shit on the comments section and then runs away.

  16. Thread

    https://twitter.com/MisterCommodity/status/1373506957252911106?s=19

    The national media will tell you #MiamiBeach issued a state of emergency and shut down because of the crowds and some will lie and say it’s because of Covid. That’s only half the story. Here are some videos of what is really going on.

    This happened TWICE at the same Resturant

    1. Racist videos.

    2. I was trying to see the White Supremacist Anti-Asian violence but that crowd was in the way. Will Reason cover the Miami restaurant riotings or is the story too lo-cal?

      1. Still looking for the Trump blame angle.

  17. It strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.

    #Blue Anon

    1. What really strains credibility is that eighty million ballots were cast for Joe Fuckin Biden.

      1. Most pure fortified election ever.

        1. Now that I think about it, “fortifying” the election sounds exactly like the kind of bullshit Cass Sunstein would come up with.

      2. Not when you consider that we had just seen a four year demonstration that his opponent was a deeply dishonest, incompetent, childish, moronic, and mean-spirited mess.

        1. As opposed to a 48 year demonstration from Joe Fuckin Biden?

          1. Hey, he’s still kinda sharp for a guy his age!

            1. There is 3.5 years difference in age between the two major party candidates.

              Trump, who according to his fans, is showing no signs of senility, has said some absolutely moronic things: revolutionary war airports, hydrosonic missiles. Which means, if he’s not senile, he’s just dumb.

              I don’t vote for either of them. I voted for Jo. But most people feel they have to choose one of the two major party candidates, no matter how much both choices suck. So, they pick the one that sucks the least.

              Trump probably could have won if he could have suppressed his own obnoxiousness a bit.

              1. BoTh SiDeS!

              2. I don’t vote for either of them. I voted for Jo.

                Cute?

                1. I dunno. She kinda looks like, maybe, a third-grade teacher. Are you into that look?

                  I voted for her because of her being the Libertarian Party candidate, so I didn’t consider what she looks like.

  18. These beliefs culminated in an attack on the U.S. Capitol that left five people dead.

    We’ll ignore that 4 of those people were the ‘attackers’ and killed by police forces.

    1. And we still don’t know if the fifth’s death is even actually related, but somehow it’s the other guys who are misinforming everyone.

      1. Sure, Mr. “They just stayed inside the velvet ropes.” You are one of the biggest spreaders of misinformation here.

        1. Cite?

            1. “I saw the video. By walking slowly and orderly inside the velvet ropes.”

              Direct quote from Mother’s.

              1. You mean this video you dishonest fucking idiot?

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcBRgyeoH90

                Explain to me what the fuck you think that they were doing if not walking slowly and orderly inside the velvet ropes.

                You’re so sure of your narrative and then it always fucks you in the ass.

                1. Oh, that might be a White Knight deepfake if it’s on YouTube. I know you consider YouTube a “blind link”. Here’s Yahoo:

                  Protesters walking slowly and orderly inside the velvet ropes

                2. Just look at all these photos of the peaceful protesters walking calmly in the velvet ropes.

                  https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-show-the-aftermath-of-a-siege-on-capitol-building-2021-1

                  I especially liked the ones with the broken windows, broken furniture, ransacked offices, smashed mirrors, trash littering everywhere. So peaceful.

                  1. Three broken windows, the same knocked over podium shown three times, some water bottles left behind, a note on Pelosi’s desk, a fake gallows and some cop’s who got a hit of their own pepper spray.

                    They’re trying to put the worst possible spin on it and even then it looks like a best case scenario from last summer.

                    Wow, can you point me out which part of the “carnage” was worse than when you targeted the White House and burnt St. John’s or any of the Kavanaugh protest, because that looks incredibly mild for the wOrSt inSurreCtion eVer!

                    1. There we go, the January 6 Riot Defense Two-Step….

                      Step 1: “They were just tourists! Look! They took selfies and walked between velvet ropes”!

                      Response: Umm, there’s plenty of evidence that the riot was way more than just people taking selfies…

                      Step 2: “But that’s nothing compared to BLM and Antifa!”

                      Response: Umm, I thought we were talking about Jan. 6, not whatever BLM did…

                      Step 1: “Right! They were just tourists taking selfies and walking between velvet ropes!”

                  2. Anyway, about this video that your WK sock insists didn’t happen, chemleft…
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcBRgyeoH90

                    1. You are being disingenuous. I didn’t say that nobody walked within some velvet ropes. I am saying MORE than that happened, some of it very violent.

                3. You are surely there are OTHER videos from the Capitol riots, aren’t you.

            1. Oooooops…

              I know the picture on the left is from that well known bastion of MAGA, The Atlantic, but I thought the NYT might be too far right for you:
              https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/dAySFIr8VXcACVzplVnR92sk1h4=/1344×444/media/img/posts/2021/01/coup_comp_FINAL/original.jpg

  19. How ‘Owning the Libs’ Became the GOP’s Core Belief

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/03/21/owning-the-libs-history-trump-politics-pop-culture-477203

    In short: The 2024 nominee will not be the candidate who has the best policy for taxes and spending, but will be the candidate who has the best ability to generate social media likes.

    1. USA patriots care more about the candidate’s honor of the U.S. Constitution (the very definition of the USA) more than ‘social media likes’ or ‘owning the Libs’ and the Libs compulsive attempts at “Fundamentally Changing the Nation”, per Obama into a National Socialist Regime (def; Nazism).

      It’s only a gang-affiliation battle to the gang-affiliation mentality of the [WE] mob left. For everyone else; it’s about keeping the USA from being invaded and taken-over by Nazism.

      1. RAND PAUL 2024!

      2. USA patriots care more about the candidate’s honor of the U.S. Constitution (the very definition of the USA) more than ‘social media likes’ or ‘owning the Libs’

        That must be why so many self-described patriots voted for Trump, right?

        1. In a Trump vs Hillary ballot – YES! Yes, Indeed.

        2. Why the fuck would any American, no matter how patriotic they are, vote for a party that openly hates them?

          1. That’s funny, I don’t think the “We Hate Americans” party had any candidates in the last election.

            1. Sure, Joe and Kamala. Who the hell did you think you were pulling the lever for?
              Well, not you because you’re Torontonian, but your bosses then…

      3. “honor of the U.S. Constitution”

        Right, sure. Like calling your own Vice President a coward because he wouldn’t assume for himself the power to just toss out the electoral votes from selected states.

    2. Lol. Quoting more lefty sources. God damn. Like you want to prove your bias.

    3. In short: The 2024 nominee will not be the candidate who has the best policy for taxes and spending, but will be the candidate who has the best ability to generate social media likes.

      Kinda doubt it since every Republican party member who will not publicly renounce the Republican party is on a blacklist and can’t participate in social media.

      But hey, the one thing you can say for Biden’s selection as a candidate is that it wasn’t based on his popularity. The DNC had to rig its primaries yet again to get the senile savior to the top of the ticket. That’s, uh… noble I guess. Way to own the cons there cytotoxic.

  20. There is something about what happened in DC that deserves attention.

    Minarchists recognize that there is a proper role for government in protecting individuals from acts of violence. That function can get out of our control so we worry about the police state and excessive laws.

    Government from the local police to the federal government is really based on faith. It is mostly a show and requires confidence from the governed. Law enforcement is outnumbered and out gunned.

    A riot is what happens when that breaks down. The protests in Portland were about what happens when you have excess power to the police and then it became a riot.

    The protest in DC was a more direct challenge to the central government and the constitutional process. It too became a riot. That is a fundamental difference by comparison.

    So we need to ask what went wrong? The answers do not lie in more power to the government. We need less of it and a more responsive ethical and legal foundation from our elected officials.

    That is unlikely to happen as the legislators are going to be ever more divided and seize more power.

    1. Two things: Politicians need to be more responsible and not engage in so much demagoguery, and people need to be more broad-minded and engaged in the entirety of the media landscape so as not to fall into a small bubble and be particularly vulnerable to demagoguery.

      There ARE a lot of problems with police violence and police brutality, especially against people of color, but it is NOT true that there is some epidemic of racist cops specifically murdering Black motorists or something, and while it may feel good for certain members of minority communities to always play the role of victim, being a responsible adult means looking at the issue critically, reading more media sources beyond just those that are feeding you lines that you want to believe.

      There ARE a lot of problems with voting systems, but it is NOT true that there was some systematic conspiracy to steal the election away from Trump, and while it may feel good for certain members of the MAGA community always play the role of victim, being a responsible adult means looking at the issue critically, reading more media sources beyond just those that are feeding you lines that you want to believe.

      1. There ARE a lot of problems with police violence and police brutality, especially in Democratic Areas… Hmmmmmmmmmmm…………….

        +Offer even a speckle of evidence the election wasn’t stolen from Trump…. Let’s start with how mail-in ballots are suppose to represent in-person voting patterns in the EXACT same area’s.

      2. people need to be more broad-minded and engaged in the entirety of the media landscape so as not to fall into a small bubble and be particularly vulnerable to demagoguery.

        He posted without a hint of self awareness after linking to a left-wing publication fretting about how the Republican party is going to select a literal Nazi to run on its ticket.

      3. On the one hand, you have police shooting data showing that cops in general and white cops in particular are less likely to use deadly force against a black suspect than a white one; that police kill far more white and Hispanic suspects every year than black suspects, despite black people comprising the majority of perpetrators convicted of crimes of violence. On the other hand, you have a 4 year long attempt to undo the 2016 election and a coordinate effort by a self-described “cabal” of billionaires to secure a Democratic victory in the 2020 election by “fortifying” the election process with hundreds of billions of dollars worth of political and legal activism to change the entire structure of American voting laws. See? BOTH SIDES!

        1. Keep this up and you’re going to have an aneurysm. Then you and Biden will have something in common.

          1. Believe it or not, it takes little if any effort or energy to rhetorically beat you senseless. It’s like when Kramer was fighting grade school kids at his karate dojo.

          2. Why? Your arguments aren’t very well thought out, so it’s minimal effort. It’s kind of obvious you’re just walking down a list of talking points.

    2. So we need to ask what went wrong?
      Election Fraud?

      I ask what you just stated all the time and my bottom line is —
      “That many people cannot be that stupid!”
      If that’s true; election fraud has been going on and growing for decades. That I can believe especially now.

      Perhaps election integrity and security by the State’s (if they’re not corrupted) will demonstrate further. But seeing H.R.1 (*free* ballot-stuffing) bills hit D.C. legislation when ballots are less secure than a soda pop purchase at the gas-station isn’t going to demonstrate anything but how MORE fraud must be needed.

  21. “It strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.”

    It does, indeed; but it was not random tweets, alone, nor were those people otherwise normal. It was a five year campaign by a major party presidential candidate and that party and four years by the incumbent POTUS and his entire executive branch of government to select, propagandize, program, and lead a cult of those people most susceptible to their control.

    Government censorship would have made Trump and Companies dirty work even easier, because his insurrection was perpetrated by government. Mislaying the blame on private citizens, when it belongs on those in government from Trump to those many cops and other government employees that led the ransacking of the Capitol, and giving those in government even greater means via censorship will make it even easier for another “Trump” to perpetrate another insurrection. If that next is not a similar buffoon and if his path is smoothed by even more government power, are we sure that next “Trump’s” insurrection will fail?

    1. It was a five year campaign by a major party presidential candidate and that party and four years by the incumbent POTUS and his entire executive branch of government to select, propagandize, program, and lead a cult of those people most susceptible to their control.

      Now tell us how Trump is a Russian intelligence asset based on the 5 year long intelligence community campaign to illegally spy on his campaign and administration based on a falsified FISA warrant and an oppo dossier.

      But shit, if $150k worth of Facebook ads and a few Trump tweets was enough to hack the 2016 election, you’d think the Democrats would have learned from that when they outspent Trump 3 to 1. Seems like preventing yet another insurrection would have been pretty cheap by comparison to the 50 million dollars they spent in a targeted campaign of lies for 4 years.

  22. Good Lord this place is even worse than usual.

    1. Sergio is a real charmer.

      1. I guess the idea is, since Reason is never going to turn into a satellite outpost of MAGA Central, nor is it going to be just another garden-variety right-wing blog doing nothing but channeling hate against Team Blue, then try to turn the whole thing into a toxic sewer to keep everyone else away.

        1. Also, it’s that Reason set up the comments on their website and stopped paying attention to them or moderating them, so it’s a good place to hang out if you want to act like an asshole with no consequences.

          I’ve been told by Reason execs that they are aware they are awful, and so they decided to hide them by default.

          1. Lol. You see, cytotoxic is a very important person who discusses these issues routinely with the administrators of Reason. Unfortunately, his memory is kind of shit so he forgot that comments have been “hidden by default” for nearly a decade, even before the legendary Preet Bharara hullabaloo.

            1. Hmm, you posted a comment one minute before mine and then one minute after. Just enough time for you to switch logins.

              Your my sock puppet!

              1. *You’re

        2. Hey remember an hour or so ago when you accidentally replied to me as white knight instead of chemjeff, outing your sockpuppet yet again?

          Fucking hell kid. The deception is quite less than perfect when you fuck up your socks IN THE SAME GODDAMN THREAD. At least wait a day or two and hope somebody has forgotten like you usually do. Lmfao.

          Also, you seem a lot more well-verses on what’s going on in right wing media than I am. which is curious since you only ever post content from a handful of far left media outlets. I’d ask where you find the time to work, but I know you’re a morbidly obese fat piece of shit who lives on relief at the courtesy of the fine taxpayers of Canada.

          1. LOL, you posted this rant one minute before I posted my comment below making fun of sock puppet rants.

            Maybe that proves I’m your sock puppet.

            1. Or maybe it proves that you’re incredibly desperate after the embarrassing boner 2 hours ago when you accidentally outed this sock yet again. It’d be absolutely fucking hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. At least Tulpa slunk off and quit replying after he accidentally outed his Sqrsly imposter earlier.

              1. BTW I have some other stuff to do and won’t be around until tomorrow. I’ll swing by then and see how many times you corpse-fuck this thread in 8-10 hours after you know there’s no chance anyone will be around to reply. It’s one of those cute things you do that instantly reveals your socks.

              2. LOL, I was walking with my daughter to the local playground, having a very serious discussion about Star Wars.

                1. Cite?

                  1. I mean, WTF, after the Jedi Council found out the clone army have chips implanted in their brains, that the clone army was ordered by Darth Tyranus, that Count Dooku is Tyranus, and Yoda saw a vision in which Palpatine’s distinctive chin is clearly visible sticking out of Darth Sidious’ cloak, they still didn’t connect the dots on Palpatine.

                    1. Wait isn’t that being a chinist doing chinism?! I kid sorry had to post that.

        3. By the way, are you going to dial into the secret lefty shit sock puppet phone meeting this evening? We can all crack a beer and plan next week’s sock puppetry.

          1. Sorry, I have my usual Sunday evening Zoom session with George Soros, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-un, “Democrat mayors”, Antifa National HQ, that lady in the State Farm Arena video who was totally scanning Biden ballots over and over, the MS-13 guys who lead the Illegal Immigrant Invasion Brigades, the guy at the Wuhan Biowarfare Lab that deliberately created the COVID-19 virus to destroy America, the Dominion Voting Machine programmers who wrote the code that handed the election to Biden, the United Nations, the WHO, Justin Trudeau, and Justin Bieber, about how to Destroy America. I hope you understand.

          2. Since you’re the same guy, this exchange is kind of sad.

        4. “channeling well-deserved hate against Team Blue”
          FTFY
          Historically the evilest party in the West after the Nazis. Even Franco and Mussolini, bad as they were, weren’t as murderous and racist as you guys.

          1. Don’t you have a hockey game to go yo or something.

  23. Disinformation is a real threat, it had the country in 4 years of turmoil and the Russians almost toppled the Government.

    Huh?

    Has anybody perused the Steele mockery? On its face it was preposterous, if you couldn’t discern that, then you were entranced by the Moscow sex scenes; that’s how the Russians tricked the FBI, too.

    .

  24. Just thinking about both-sidisms.

    Most of the Capitol protestors believed that significant voting fraud led to a corrupt election and stolen results. They might be completely wrong (and delusional) or at least a little bit correct (and justified). Their stated goals focused on maintaining the integrity of the US government and political validity.

    Most of the BLM and antifa protestors believed that significant systemic racism and inherent unfairness in free markets led to a corrupt society. They might be completely wrong (and delusional) or at least a little bit correct (and justified). Their stated goals focused on overthrowing the integrity of the US government and society.

    Which one is more dangerous?

  25. These comments are shit. You’re all flagged.

    1. Flagged for content.

  26. Proud Boys leaders facing new conspiracy charges related to Jan. 6 Capitol riot

    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/19/proud-boys-leaders-face-new-conspiracy-charges-477185

    “Rufio is in charge, cops are the primary threat,” the unindicted co-conspirator told associates on the encrypted channel, per the indictment. “[D]on’t get caught by them or BLM, don’t get drunk until off the street.”

    At 3:38 p.m., as initial waves of rioters were leaving the building, Donohoe sent an encrypted message to the “Boots on the Ground” channel to indicate, “We are regrouping with a second force.”

    See, that’s exactly what tourists do. They think cops are a threat and they form chat channels called “Boots on the Ground”.

    1. Do you always take government allegations in a charging instrument to be the unvarnished truth? Or just when the government prosecutes people with whom you disagree politically?

      1. Do you always take government allegations in a charging instrument to be the unvarnished truth?”

        Only if they’re Democratic politicians. chemleft’s paid to advance a narrative.
        If they’re Rethuglicans however…

        1. Lecture delivered by a guy is, like, registered Conservative Party of Canada, or somethin’.

      2. Do you always create manufactured doubt and throw sand in the air in order to obfuscate and carry water for Team Red?

        1. A paid propagandist like you should hardly make that accusation.

        2. Do you always create manufactured doubt and throw sand in the air in order to obfuscate and carry water for Team Red?

          What you dismissively refer to as “manufactured doubt” is what our criminal justice system refers to as the “presumption of innocence,” you bootlicking dimwit.

          How does it feel to carry all the water, all the time, for Team Government?

          1. That silence is the sound of chemjeff slinking away from having yet again obliterated any pretense of him being a libertarian.

          2. “Presumption of innocence” is a legal standard, only strictly applicable in the courtroom. You and I and everyone else are free to judge anyone by any standard that we wish outside of a legal setting. THAT is called “freedom of conscience”.

            And what you’re doing here, which is obvious to see, is to generate manufactured doubt in a case that makes your team look bad.

            1. “Presumption of innocence” is a legal standard, only strictly applicable in the courtroom.

              Then I suppose it is about time we begin trying people outside of the courtroom, so as to circumvent these nagging technicalities.

              You and I and everyone else are free to judge anyone by any standard that we wish outside of a legal setting. THAT is called “freedom of conscience”.

              You are not free to present unproven allegations as established facts. When you do, we are free to judge you to be a bootlicking dimwit for Team Government.

              1. I didn’t present them as “established facts”. I didn’t say they were proven in a court of law. I didn’t say they were Truth Itself. That was all your invention. I presented evidence in favor that they did. I presented evidence in favor of the claim that there were people on Jan. 6 who certainly acted as if they were planning a military assault on a fortified position, not just as tourists wandering around in velvet ropes. You have no reason to believe they are false, and so you manufacture doubt against the claims. You CAN’T accept them at face value because it blows a hole in the entire right-wing narrative of “oh they were just tourists”.

                1. I presented evidence in favor of the claim that there were people on Jan. 6 who certainly acted as if they were planning a military assault on a fortified position, not just as tourists wandering around in velvet ropes.

                  So, you consider unproven government allegations in a charging instrument to be “evidence”? Interesting. I suppose, to be fair, thinking everything the government says is true is at least a consistent belief to hold when you are a bootlicking dimwit for Team Government.

                  1. Are you a defense lawyer? You must be a defense lawyer. Because a defense lawyer is not interested in truth or fiction, only in doubt. As long as the defense lawyer can create enough doubt in the minds of the jury (or in this case, the reader), then the accused is set free even if the accused really is guilty of the crimes he/she is charged with.

                    So that’s all this is. Generating doubt. It doesn’t matter if the claims are true or false. All that matters is if there is doubt in the minds of the jury members.

                    1. “You must be a defense lawyer.”

                      God forbid, right? We should probably just kill all the lawyers so that we can throw people in prison because the government says so.

                      Don’t ever call yourself a libertarian again.

                    2. Hey, nothing wrong with defense lawyers. They are a very necessary part of the judicial system and we need good defense lawyers. But you know what? Not every situation calls for summoning your Inner Defense Lawyer. Sometimes, instead of treating your opponent as Opposing Counsel and trying every trick in the book to set your client free, even the dirty tricks, you should just have a friendly discussion, with an exploration of ideas, not necessarily trying to set your client free.

                      But I’m not at all surprised that you are a defense lawyer.

                    3. But I totally get it now. You treat the Reason comment boards as the courtroom, and the readers are the jury. You don’t have to prove anything true or false, all you have to do is create doubt. The more doubt you create, the more you win! Except that with more doubt, it also means that we have less idea of what actually happened. When the goal is to set your client free, creating doubt is the correct strategy. When the goal is to try to discover truth, or explore ideas, or have good-faith discussions, then creating doubt is NOT necessarily the correct strategy. It can hinder these things.

                      So stop treating this place like it’s a courtroom and stop treating people as if they are Opposing Counsel.

                    4. I mean, in this entire discussion, you really are treating these Proud Boys as if you are their clients as their defense lawyer. Trying to set them free. Why? They aren’t actually paying you (I presume). Why do you take it upon yourself to serve as the defense lawyer for Team Red?

                    5. as if *they are your clients

                    6. “[Y]ou should just have a friendly discussion …”

                      When you take the position that the government’s unproven allegations of criminal conduct should be taken at face value, and that refusing to do so is some sort of “dirty trick,” to use your words, having a “friendly” discussion is off the table.

                      There are no friendly discussion to be had with authoritarians.

                      Is that clear?

                    7. “When the goal is to try to discover truth ….”

                      That is not, and has never been, your goal. You already know what happened, do you not? You already know what the truth is. What is the truth? Well, the truth is whatever the government says is the truth. You do not care about the evidence. You do not care about liberty. You do not care about people’s rights or their freedoms. You care only about your team, and your team is Team Government.

                      And, now that you have been trounced and exposed for the statist clown that you are, you are pivoting to the “let’s just be friends” routine.

                      With all due respect, go fuck yourself.

                    8. Oh so now you get on your moral high horse.

                      Tell us, what is your position on immigration? Fully anti-authoritarian, I suppose, right?

                      Or how about trade. Absolutely anti-authoritarian, right?

                      I mean, we already know what your position is on voting rights. They don’t really matter in the grand scheme of things. Someone stealing voting rights is no biggie, and trying to prosecute that is an unjust tyranny.

                      So spare us your sanctimony. It’s just another cheap defense lawyer trick.

                    9. And you never really answer the question why you feel the need to serve as the defense lawyer for the Proud Boys. We aren’t actually in a court of law, you know.

                    10. I’m totally waiting to hear your position on immigration. Because I’d bet money you are on Team Government when it comes to having a restrictive border, prosecuting those perfidious and “un-American” companies that hire undocumented workers.

                    11. “So spare us your sanctimony. It’s just another cheap defense lawyer trick.”

                      Bootlicking dimwit for Team Government gets upset when pinned into a corner. At this rate, you’ll spend the rest of your life living in a crawl space, which is exactly where bootlicking dimwits like you belong. You are a non-entity.

                    12. “We aren’t actually in a court of law, you know.

                      Everyone here knows full well that you do not care about the law, you bootlicking dimwit.

                    13. Oh no no. Tell us how much you hate authoritarianism and Team Government by telling us all how you oppose arbitrary border restrictions and favor the free flow of labor across the border. You won’t, because you are just as much of an authoritarian shithead that you claim I am. So much for your fake sanctimony.

                    14. “Oh no no. Tell us how much you hate authoritarianism and Team Government by telling us all how you oppose arbitrary border restrictions and favor the free flow of labor across the border. You won’t, because you are just as much of an authoritarian shithead that you claim I am. So much for your fake sanctimony.”

                      I am sure you already have this saved, but just in case you do not:

                      https://www.theodysseyonline.com/whataboutism-the-fallacy-of-deflection-arguments

                    15. I mean, it should be obvious after the past few weeks that both Team Red and Team Blue favor inhumane unjust authoritarian policies about the border. Team Blue just has better PR about it.

                      So I have no doubt you denounce Team Blue’s authoritarian nonsense with regards to the border. How about Team Red’s?

                    16. Nope as I suspected, you won’t do it. Because your sanctimony is as cheap as a $5 whore. It’s moral grandstanding, nothing more.

                    17. “So I have no doubt you denounce Team Blue’s authoritarian nonsense with regards to the border. How about Team Red’s?”

                      LOL

                      https://lazyperfectionist1.blogspot.com/2012/12/logical-fallacies-changing-subject.html

                    18. “Nope as I suspected, you won’t do it. Because your sanctimony is as cheap as a $5 whore. It’s moral grandstanding, nothing more.”

                      As long as we are having a friendly discussion about random subjects, maybe we can talk about my favorite foods.

                    19. Oh, you are just upset that I am using Defense Lawyer tricks against you. Now, you aren’t the lawyer, you are the witness on the stand, whose credibility is being questioned. Oh, you hate authoritarianism and you hate Team Government…. except when it comes to border restrictions, or tariffs on China, or regulations on Big Tech, or any number of authoritarian Team Government initiatives that you fully endorse. Too bad so sad.

                    20. And you know what? If you were to say “yes, I support open borders, I support free trade, I support the free flow of goods AND services AND labor across borders”, then that would be a WELCOME development, that would be an ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN development, that would be a LIBERTY-AFFIRMING development, that would be a development that rejects TEAM GOVERNMENT. But you can’t and you won’t. Because your appeal to anti-authoritarianism rings hollow. You are just as authoritarian AND MORE that you accuse me of being.

                      How does it feel to be an authoritarian jackboot?

                    21. “Oh, you are just upset that I am using Defense Lawyer tricks against you.”

                      As if we needed any more proof that you have no idea what defense lawyers do for a living, or just lawyers generally, or what being a lawyer means, or that there is something called “the law.”

                      LOL

                      Such a dimwit.

                    22. “And you know what? If you were to say “yes, I support open borders, I support free trade, I support the free flow of goods AND services AND labor across borders”, then that would be a WELCOME development, that would be an ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN development, that would be a LIBERTY-AFFIRMING development, that would be a development that rejects TEAM GOVERNMENT. But you can’t and you won’t. Because your appeal to anti-authoritarianism rings hollow. You are just as authoritarian AND MORE that you accuse me of being.

                      How does it feel to be an authoritarian jackboot?”

                      At this point, you are having a conversation with the voices in your head.

                      Dimwit.

                    23. Am I?
                      So tell us, what is your position on immigration and trade. It is the anti-authoritarian, open borders, free trade position, right?

                    24. You can’t do it. You just can’t do it.

                    25. “Am I?”

                      Yes.

                    26. I rest my case.

                    27. “I rest my case.”

                      You should rest your head. You were awfully close to SQRSLY territory with those unhinged rants.

                    28. “This is such an obvious fraud. Who do you think you are fooling with this?”

                      What are you, a defense lawyer or something? Why can’t you just accept it at face value? We are just having a discussion, and then you have to ruin it with your dirty defense lawyer tricks.

                  2. Geiger Goldstaedt
                    March.21.2021 at 11:32 pm

                    Dimwit.

                    chemjeff radical individualist
                    March.21.2021 at 11:33 pm

                    Am I?

                    Geiger Goldstaedt
                    March.21.2021 at 11:34 pm

                    Yes.

                    chemjeff radical individualist
                    March.21.2021 at 11:36 pm

                    I rest my case.

                    LOL

                    I guess maybe you are not such a bad lawyer clown after all.

                    1. This is such an obvious fraud. Who do you think you are fooling with this?

                    2. Poor poor GG. He had such high hopes. He thought he would become Solicitor General some day, but instead he is defending deadbeats in traffic court.

                    3. “This is such an obvious fraud. Who do you think you are fooling with this?”

                      What are you, a defense lawyer or something? Why can’t you just accept it at face value? We are just having a discussion, and then you have to ruin it with your dirty defense lawyer tricks.

                    4. Oh LOL.

                      Well I am going to bed. You can have the last word, Mr. “anti-authoritarian” barrister you.

                    5. He thought he would become Solicitor General some day, but instead he is defending deadbeats in traffic court.

                      I totally forgot about the traditional pipeline that turns lowly defense attorneys that defend deadbeats into candidates for Solicitor General.

                      LOL

                      Yet another admission that you have no idea how our legal system works, or what lawyers do.

                    6. Well I am going to bed. You can have the last word, Mr. “anti-authoritarian” barrister you.

                      And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you give yourself away as a fat Canadian.

                2. You CAN’T accept them at face value …

                  “What do you call a person that accepts unproven government allegations at face value?”

                  “What?”

                  “A bootlicking dimwit.”

                  “LOL”

                  1. Yup there’s another tactic to generate doubt. Impugn the character of the person making the claim. “That witness might be telling the truth, but if I can make the jury believe that the witness is a slimy good-for-nothing, then that will be enough doubt to set my client free.” It doesn’t matter what the truth is. All that matters is doubt.

                    1. “It doesn’t matter what the truth is.”

                      Well, that certainly seems to explain why you are comfortable with accepting the government’s unproven allegations at face value.

                3. You have no reason to believe they are false, and so you manufacture doubt against the claims.

                  Apart from being a bootlicking dimwit for Team Government, do you have reason to believe everything the government says is true simply by virtue of the fact that the government said it?

                  1. And now we have “inversion of the burden of proof”. “My client has a flimsy alibi that I can’t prove is true, so I will make them try to prove that it is false.” That works in a court of law when the burden is really on the prosecution to prove guilt, but that is a crappy tactic in a debate when the goal ought to be anyway an exploration of ideas.

                    Since you keep acting like a defense lawyer in all of this, it sure does seem to me that you think your “client” here is guilty.

                    1. “Since you keep acting like a defense lawyer in all of this ….”

                      And since you are acting like a prosecutor, all the while dispensing with the presentation of any actual evidence, it sure does seem to me that you are a bootlicking government dimwit.

                      Don’t even pretend to be a libertarian again.

                      Get lost.

                      Shoo.

                    2. I rest my case.

                      LOL

                    3. “I rest my case.”

                      “The government said — therefore, it must be true. By the way, I am a libertarian.”

                      – chemjeff

                    4. “[B]ut that is a crappy tactic in a debate when the goal ought to be anyway an exploration of ideas.”

                      That is decidedly not the purpose of a debate. It does not surprise me in the least that you do not understand the difference.

                      https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-debate-and-vs-discussion/

                    5. I meant discussion. Not a formal Oxford debate. Sheesh.

                    6. “I meant discussion.”

                      Having a discussion with a dishonest shit like you is a non-starter. The best result to come from all of this is to expose your dishonesty to others. Given the fact that the overwhelming majority of commenters here dismiss you as the bootlicking dimwit that you are, the strategy of exposing your idiocy appears to be very effective — though, to be fair, you rarely require any assistance in the endeavor.

                      You have no business posting here. You have no business even lurking in the shadows. Delete your account and, if you have the balls, delete yourself.

      3. LOL, next discussion down you are trying to defend a plaintiff-sponsored audit full of scare quotes about Dominion Voting as if it were an independent audit.

        1. Defend? Show me where I am defending it. I will wait.

    2. So texting your friends where you will be is now conspiritorial. I saw many people on facebook saying lets gather at the capitol on the 6th. is that also a consiracy. just talking of gathering can now be a conspiracy and against the law? this is a new level of O’rwellianism

    1. That seems as real as a Harry Potter novel. Tell me more about March 4 anyway, chemleft.
      I thought that there was supposed to be an uprising of the Hoi Polloi for you to suppress.

  27. What a remarkably stupid essay. It omits by far the biggest problem with censoring misinformation:

    There’s no tool out there to censor misinformation.

    There are only tools to censor information the censor wants to censor. Every one of those tools is as effective against truth as lies, and the only definition of “misinformation” you can expect any censor to use is, “Things I want to censor.”

    Don’t humor the idea that this is about censoring misinformation. It’s about censoring, period.

    1. Excellent.

    2. “There’s no tool out there to censor misinformation.”

      Don’t be too sure. Facebook has a tool that filters dick pics.

  28. https://twitter.com/BernardKerik/status/1373795051311149061?s=19

    Judge Releases Dominion Audit Report: System ‘Designed’ to ‘Create Systemic Fraud’ – best news here #fraud

    1. Let’s read your cited article:

      “The report, produced by a group working on behalf of Antrim County resident William Bailey, who filed a lawsuit against the county challenging the integrity of the election equipment”

      “The audit was produced by Allied Security Operations Group, a firm that has worked with lawyers for Trump and his allies on election challenges.”

      1. Do you have any objections to the substance of the report? Or is it enough these days to accept and dismiss information based upon nothing more than the identity of the person or group presenting the information? Asking for a friend. Thanks.

        1. The article doesn’t get into the substance of the report unless you consider some scare quotes about Dominion to be substance.

          1. So you didn’t read the report, correct?

            1. Provide a link to its actual content, and I may. Burdens on you after all the b.s. that has been shoveled by Trump clingers.

              1. Is there something preventing you from locating the report?

                  1. So, you are refusing to read the report?

                    1. Rolling my eyes so hard right now.

                      No, if you care so much, go find a link to it. I might read it.

                    2. “No, if you care so much, go find a link to it. I might read it.”

                      So, just to clarify:

                      1. You have not read the report;
                      2. You will not/i> read the report.
                      3. You have dismissed the report.

                      Did I get that right, little sea lion? Am I missing something?

      2. I believe that was the case where some poor poll worker accidentally set the machine to record votes by “ranked choice voting”, which gave an erroneous tally, but the worker later discovered the mistake and the correct result was tabulated. This is evidently considered MASSIVE FRAUD.

        1. Oh, did you read the report? Or are you relying upon your infallible memory?

          1. Go find the actual report and provide a link and we can all read it. The article just gave some vague scare quotes about Dominion.

            1. Is something stopping you from finding the report, little sea lion?

              1. Burden of proof is on you. I read the article provided — did you do even that much?

                1. The burden of proof is on me to do what, exactly? Find information readily available on the internet? That burden is not one me. The report presents an analysis. If you want to read it, and raise objections to its conclusions or methodologies, feel free to do so.

                  But there is no burden on me to do your research for you. If you want to the report, feel free to dismiss it. But that is all you are doing — dismissing it, without reading it. Is that clear, little sea lion? Or should I explain it again?

                  1. Baloney, I gave information about the report that was in the article that throws serious doubt on its lack of bias.

                    I am not going to bother to find an audit report that makes clearly biased, sweeping, scary claims in its summary.

                    Answer my question, why don’t you: did you read the article about the released audit report?

                    1. “Baloney, I gave information about the report that was in the article that throws serious doubt on its lack of bias.”

                      But, you did not actually read the report, did you?

                    2. Are you slow-witted? I already said that I did not.

                    3. “I already said that I did not.”

                      So, you are not exactly in a position to dismiss it, are you?

  29. https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1373743121767485440?s=19

    On this weekend’s anniversary of the Iraq war, “senior intelligence officials” mark the occasion by leaking new pro-war bullshit

  30. https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1373797609337409537?s=19

    The California Board of Ed unanimously voted to adopt the CRT Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum. They should all resign.

  31. The whole US political system rests its legitimacy on the consent of an informed public. Increasing and widespread misinformation, misinformation that various and large sections of the public believe, will undermine those foundations of legitimacy. It seems right that politicians should be concerned about it, even though any solutions are likely to be heavy handed and tailored to benefit the rich and powerful.

    1. Pop Quiz:

      Define “misinformation.”

      1. Misinformation is some story or idea cooked up and planted to confuse or deceive the enemy. That’s why it’s a threat to politicians.

    2. I agree. Propaganda works, or else it wouldn’t exist. Therefore, if the media hadn’t lied about Trump for four years, he would be the president. Really, he’s supposed to be the president now.

      1. “Therefore, if the media hadn’t lied about Trump for four years…”

        … Someone else would have. It comes with the job.

        “Really, he’s supposed to be the president now.”

        Really, the difference is mostly cosmetic. The biggest difference is perhaps that Trump enjoys being lied about.

  32. Relax everyone. Trump has this all under control. He’s starting up a new website. It’s supposed to be part Twitter, part YouTube. I heard it would be called Miss Information. Every week there will be a new very hot model on the homepage. She will be dubbed Miss Information of the week. On the site will be places where Trumpette’s can gather and share the news of the day, like the Covid vaccine is deadly and the Covid vaccine’s implant tracker chips in you and it’s all about mind control. How wonderful is that?

    There will be thousands logging in everyday and Trump is gonna manage the server. Since it’s just a startup, it will consist on one server capable of handling 10 simultaneous connections, a really nice 768kbps AT&T router/firewall to keep the bad guys out. It’s all about law and order, right? The 10mbps 5 port Netgear will evenly distribute bandwidth to all 10 users. Since it’s a DSL connection, the IP address will change weekly, but there will be a staff member who’s job is to update the www A record each time the IP address changes.

    This will be sooooooo exciting. But the best part about it, is guys like me (you know. The libertarian kind of guy) will be banned for life.

    1. And the genius of Trump is he will raise $100 million from faithful MAGA for this new enterprise.

      1. Cite?

        1. Trump Kneejerk Defense Syndrome

          1. Oh, so you were making things up? I understand.

            1. You mean in this comment:

              https://reason.com/2021/03/21/why-we-still-shouldnt-censor-misinformation/#comment-8818287

              Of course, I was making it up. Even if you didn’t realize it was sarcasm, I couldn’t not make up a prediction for the future. Duh.

              Do you have any, like, hobbies, dude? Anyway, I’ve gotta help get the kids to bed…

              1. “Of course, I was making it up.”

                Acceptance is the first part of moving on.

                “Anyway, I’ve gotta help get the kids to bed… “

                Translation: “I have to go drink myself into a stupor.”

      2. Well, at least his minions will think the money is for the new enterprise. And even when they find he took the money for personal reasons, the minions will still follow.

  33. That Sunstein and Trump share an unbridled passion for government power neither explains nor excuses, the insanity that Sunstein’s proposed remedy to Trump’s abuse of his government’s power to extend and expand his government’s power is to extend and expand government’s power. Statists gonna state!

  34. https://twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1373407614273478656?s=19

    We were out of the house today for six hours, probably half of them in the car, and I am utterly spent. Reentry is going to be brutal

  35. https://twitter.com/HeywoodFloyd10/status/1373761707500257280?s=19

    Many have made analogies between the woke “cancel culture” phenomenon and the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I think this is a great analogy, but I think that another, perhaps better, analog has been overlooked, namely the “Disintegration Directive” of the East German Stasi.
    Briefly, the Disintegration Directive, also known as the Decomposition Directive (officially Richtlinie 1/76 or the Zersetzung in German) was the approach that the East German secret police (the Stasi) took from 1976 onwards to crush dissent, or even potential dissent.
    Before 1976, the Stasi used the conventional gulag-and-torture methods to control political opinion in the DDR. But in the 1970s, the DDR was seeking international recognition, so they needed a lower-profile method of suppressing opposition to Communism.
    The Disintegration Directive is described in these links:

    It specified a covert, much more psychological approach to maintaining the Communist monopoly on ideological discourse.

    Zersetzung – Wikipedia

    The goal was to destroy dissidents and potential dissidents socially and emotionally without resorting to arrest and imprisonment. The Stasi collected information about the victim’s private life, and proceeded to “disintegrate” their careers and their family and private life.
    Damaging lies (or truths) would be conveyed to employers until the target was rendered unemployable. Relationships with spouses and kids would be poisoned with gossip by operatives, professional failure, and financial stress. Friends would be warned away through the grapevine.
    The goal was to destroy the reputation of the target and make him so preoccupied with his personal difficulties and emotional turmoil that he had no will to question the government of the DDR. It was done covertly, and often victims weren’t believed even if they discovered it.
    At this point, I think the parallels with the cancel culture of the modern West are obvious. To be clear, I’m not suggesting that the U.S. or other western governments are using these methods (yet). But I am suggesting that private groups and movements are doing so.
    If a professor, journalist, or corporate executive isn’t communicating the political ideas that you want spread, what better way to silence him than to make him unemployable, with all of the personal and financial stress that goes with that?
    Once you have a large enough movement established, spreading the lies about your target becomes easier – even those who know that the narrative about the “offender” is a lie won’t dare to speak up. We are now well into that phase of the operation.
    Clearly, the “trans” movement and its backers now use this approach with the likes of J.K. Rowling and Jesse Singal. Their actual views are being distorted beyond recognition in an attempt to destroy their professional worlds, and to alienate friends, colleagues, and even family.
    Although I dislike and do not respect Donald Trump, I believe that the response of journalists and educational institution to his administration can only be regarded as a kind of Sersetzung. Call it directive 11/16, I guess.
    The goal of course was to so distort his actions and comments so that it not only turned voters against him, but disturbed his mental equilibrium (such as it was) and made him so radioactive that even those who understood the truth wouldn’t dare question or correct the narrative.
    Hence, we have the fusillade of easy falsifiable lies told in the American press – Russian collusion, pee tapes, white supremacists as “fine people”, “kids in cages”, all the way up to “fomenting an armed insurrection”.
    To be fair, the task of selling these lies was simplified by the fact that Trump actually did appear to be tempermentally, intellectually, morally, and experientially unfit for office.
    Also to be fair, the right wing did have its own attempted little Sersetzung against Obama, involving lies about his citizenship, faith, and even his wife’s gender. Unlike today’s left, they couldn’t pull it off, as they lacked control of the press and educational centers.
    So to the canceled folk who have have been victims of the left’s Disintegration Directive, all I can say is “buck up”. The depression and rejection you’re feeling is exactly what they are trying to accomplish in order to shut you up and keep control. It really isn’t your fault.
    To those assisting in leftist disintegrations, I say “Your regime won’t last forever.” Eventually, the Stasi was dismantled and its records opened. The previously anonymous operatives who carried out the disintegrations became among the most hated people in a united Germany.

    1. https://twitter.com/_BipedalMammal_/status/1373772837476052994?s=19

      “You regime won’t last forever” is meaningless dude.
      We still have not recovered fully in 30 years after the abuses of our Securitate and totalitarian rule in Romania, just as an example. Their regime has not even yet started, and if it’s in the US, it will destroy all the rest.

      I would understand the passive approach if this was 2011 and we’re just seeing online deconstruction in some Elevatorgate event.
      It’s been 10 years of explaining what is going on.
      May I suggest organized, open opposition until it’s not too late?

    2. Sure. It’s all Stasi. Keep telling yourself that.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist
        March.21.2021 at 9:39 pm

        You have no reason to believe [the government’s allegations] are false, and so you manufacture doubt against the claims. You CAN’T accept them at face value ….

        The Stasi may be defunct, but there is no reason their dreams have to die. What are we without our dreams, right?

        1. Last I checked, the Stasi never had sovereign authority in the US.
          Now you are just salty.

          1. Self-reflection is a long and painful process, Jeff. But it is not — and I repeat, not — an impossible process. Small beginnings are always the beginning to something large.

            Get crackin’:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity

    3. The sitting president of the United States was censored, erased had his inalienable right to communicate taken away, along with everyone else who recognized very real examples of election fraud by the media oligarchs supporting democrats.

      It didn’t just happen once, it has become normal. Anyone hear from Trump lately?

  36. https://twitter.com/thebias_news/status/1373795487141130242?s=19

    NEW: Top Biden administration officials had previously undisclosed ties to large corporations including tech giants Microsoft, Google and Facebook, financial disclosures by the White House show (Reuters).

  37. https://twitter.com/TheEliKlein/status/1373408037692710914?s=19

    ~60% of Americans think the chances somebody with Covid must be hospitalized are ~10x higher than they actually are

    Survey by Gallup and Franklin Templeton

    1. I was told that public opinion polls are garbage. So I see no reason to believe this one.

      1. they are garbage to most here with sense but many and i mean MANY people are fooled by them daily and our politicians live by them.

  38. https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1373666924412952577?s=19

    The plot thickens with this preposterous developing Tay Anderson Smollett case.

  39. https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1373762034299453440?s=19

    Don’t worry, Brits! This is what’s happening in your country right now. Antifa Leftist movement is seeking peace through violence. (This is a REAL screenshot from CNN, btw, not a photoshop job.)

  40. Years ago, the phrase “middle of the road” referred to those who tried to avoid going too far left or right. It’s not a road, but a pipe, going through an authoritarian swamp. Go far enough Left or Right and you end up in the same swamp, with crazy crocodiles on the Left, angry alligators on the Right, and authoritarian mud-rats in the middle. It’s quite a balancing act to stay at the top of the pipe, where people live and let live, until one can exit the swamp altogether. Cass Sunstein, like many who lean left, is a living example of how difficult it is to advocate for equality without slipping into the authoritarian swamp. Leftist, Centrist, or Right wing, authoritarianism is still authoritarianism, and Statism (state-ism) is still an irrational faith (even worship) of the false god called “The Goverment”.

  41. First!!

  42. “These beliefs culminated in an attack on the U.S. Capitol that left five people dead.”

    For example, I would never censor this misinformation.

  43. This article clearly demonstrates the problem of intellectual cowardice which is a growing scourge in our society. The pursuit of education, knowledge and personal development in the goal of acquiring intellectual independence seems to me an ideal the pursuit of which should motivate and excite every human being but even more, a necessity for survival or at least, for freedom of the individual. Shouldn’t the search for truth, the process of which includes questioning our own beliefs as well as understanding opinions and ideas that seem counterintuitive to us, seem essential to every human being who desires to flourish and prosper? And yet in the light of our current society at the start of this 21st Century, we see a major decline in the intellectual independence of the general population, which relies on an unknown outside authority to educate their children, on private centralized banks to manage their economy, on a media corporation to inform them and on a pharmaceutical industry to take care of their health, both motivated by a purely financial agenda established according to their personal interests only. It is in these institutions that they blindly place their trust, so much that they do not even try to understand how they work. And despite all of this, more than ever, it is these same people animated by ideals of ever-growing intellectual and physical cowardice who incessantly complain about the functioning of society, which they expect to meet all their needs but without ever having to get involved in its operations or even seek to know the workings, and which ironically claims that they are given FREEDOM!

  44. “It strains credulity to believe random tweets can lead otherwise normal people to drive across the country and stage an insurrection.”

    It is even harder to believe that anyone who has 2nd amendment rights would show up unarmed to an insurrection. I eagerly await what evidence the prosecutors come up with, because this still doesn’t make sense to me. Okay, you occupy the congress. Now what? How does this overthrow the government? As soon as you represent more than a gnat’s threat to a water buffalo, you know the gloves are gonna come off and the rules of engagement for an “enemy combatant” is going to be a whole lot rougher than for an unruly citizen. I guess some of them had this insane belief that the military and police would do a coup (and an even crazier belief that this would be at all a good thing even if it got your preferred president reelected). However, those folks didn’t seem to be planning on doing the dirty work themselves. If I expect a mugging to occur at a place, and I pack a picnic lunch, the flag of gang the mugger is part of, and prepare to cheer it on, that would make me a jerk, but not a mugger.

  45. i think that the spread of misinformation is a pretty big problem facing us today……

    i also think that not every problem warrants government intrusion on our lives and freedoms. policy and law is not the way you fix this.

    the rise of social media has created a phenomenon where people are self brainwashed. they see something that feeds their particular confirmation bias and they interact with and share it. lies and half truths spread and mutate like a disease, creating conspiracy theories out of thin air…… much of this happens without any deliberate malice….. and the algorithms reinforce it all.

    the solution is the same place as the problem….. the platforms and, more importantly, us. we need to come to realize that the world we see on social media is not reality. we need to stop self programing. and the platforms could help a bit by softening the algorithms to give us less of an echo chamber.

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