De Blasio's New York Shouldn't Treat Unvaccinated Kids as Second-Class Citizens
Requiring kids as young as 5 to either get vaccinated or stay home is not as smart or as necessary as de Blasio claims.

Mayor Bill de Blasio's decision to expand vaccine mandates to young children is too hasty, unnecessarily coercive, and impractical. The policy, which expands on Hizzoner's prior rule, forces private companies to require that employees be fully vaccinated to work in offices. It changes the definition of fully vaccinated from requiring one shot to requiring two. And—inspiring perhaps the most ire of all—it forces parents to vaccinate children ages 5–11 if they want to bring the kids to any indoor restaurant, fitness center, or entertainment venue. The mandate for private employees and the definitional change for what counts as vaccinated will go into effect on December 27. The mandate for kids takes effect on December 14.
"I just have a feeling of resentment, of being coerced by a unilateral mandate by an outgoing mayor who has his own political ambitions," says Lisa, a Manhattan mom who had planned on doing Broadway shows and museum trips with her two kids (ages 5 and 7) this winter. "My family has always been fully vaccinated and all my kids have had their childhood vaccines on time as scheduled. Myself and my husband are also fully vaccinated for COVID and we have been since early April," she adds, describing herself as firmly in the wait-and-see camp with regard to vaccines for kids. (Lisa asked that her last name be withheld for fear of retribution.)
"With that EUA [emergency use authorization] designation, there was only three months of a trial period and 3,000 participants in the trial," Lisa says. "So to compare the COVID-19 vaccines to other childhood vaccines…I don't think it's accurate." She notes that the vaccine for polio was tested on 1 million kids over a decade, and that the two harm kids to extraordinarily different degrees. "Polio was a deadly disease that was seriously affecting more children…COVID doesn't present as seriously or as deadly for children."
She's right about that. Fewer than 700 COVID deaths have been reported among kids nationwide since the start of the pandemic, with 146 deaths for this younger age band.
De Blasio's mandate will be passed down just in time for the colder winter months, effectively prohibiting families with unvaccinated little ones from participating in normal city life. But it's not just that it will make it impossible for some families to go out together; such extracurriculars as sports, orchestra, and dance have been instructed to require that kids in this age group be vaccinated or else be thrown out of their after-school activities—those same ones they took an involuntary, collective hiatus from for much of 2020.
Eli Klein, who owns an eponymous art gallery specializing in contemporary Chinese art in the West Village, tells Reason he's worried about the rule's effect on travelers. "Most of its effect on my gallery will be the decrease in NYC tourism," he says. "Kids can't be vaccinated in most of the world and many don't want to vaccinate their kids for COVID yet. Those families will go elsewhere."
"We dine out on a regular basis. This will definitely change our behavior," says Yiatin Chu, who lives in Manhattan with her 10-year-old daughter but spends a lot of time in Queens with her family, typically dining out three times per weekend. Although Chu got her own COVID vaccines as soon as she was eligible, she's in the wait-and-see camp since "children have a really small risk of being seriously sick."
"I want to always weigh the risk and the benefit of doing anything, and to me, the risk is very, very small so I don't see that much of an upside to jump at a vaccine that is still for emergency use for this age group," she says, noting that her daughter has received all other childhood vaccines.
Enforcement of de Blasio's mandate, which he frames as a way of avoiding cold weather-month lockdowns, will be logistically fraught; most children don't carry photo IDs that can be paired with their vaccination card to verify identity. A policy like this one could also end up having a racially discriminatory impact; only 24 percent of New York kids aged 5–17 who are black are vaccinated, and only 15 percent of the total pool of vaccinated kids are between the ages of 5 and 12. If black families' choices are in any way similar to citywide choices about vaccination, we could extrapolate that roughly 7 percent of black kids between the ages of 5 and 12 within the five boroughs are currently fully vaccinated (the number may even be smaller since black residents have lower vaccination rates than other racial groups). "Let's think of the equity implications of that," says Lisa, who mentions that black New Yorker kids are less vaccinated on average than their white counterparts. Instead of bending the knee and letting the state make health decisions for their family, "we're gonna be changing how we patronize restaurants," says Chu, who jokes that it's time to invest in better cookware.
What de Blasio calls "pre-emptive strikes" against the virus present a false choice between coercive government orders to get vaccinated and coercive government orders that businesses lock down again, neither of which are plausibly needed given that 90 percent of adult New Yorkers have received at least one dose of vaccine, with the citywide death rate plummeting for those who opt to get vaccinated (and overall). It's as if de Blasio wants to be seen as presenting residents with carrots, not sticks, when in reality both mandates and lockdown orders are sticks—sticks applied to precisely the demographic group the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warned policy makers to be careful with: kids.
Lisa points to the fact that Finland and the U.K. have both decided not to vaccinate the youngest age groups for now, noting that our own FDA "gave that emergency use authorization to 5- to 11-year-olds specifically saying that they did not want to see widespread vaccine mandates for children."
"Here we are having de Blasio turn around and doing exactly what the panel feared would be done," she says. "I don't want to feel like my kids are gonna be the guinea pigs."
De Blasio already tried to bully the unvaccinated into getting jabbed back in August, creating a de facto category of second-class citizens barred from engaging in normal city life. Few foresaw that he'd once again brazenly wield his power to create a new underclass composed, oddly, of the tiny humans threatened least by the virus.
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Once again, the correct answer is to stop publicly funding the education system.
Or at the very least let parents select where the education dollars go.
let parents select where non-parents' money goes? why?
Wait, are you saying instead of vouchers, bureaucrats make the better placement choices?
No. Stop publicly funding the schools. Home school or pay a private institution to educate your children.
Ultimately sure, but the likelihood of that in the next 50 years is lower than zero.
In the meantime vouchers are an actual possibility, and are a million times better from a libertarian perspective.
They are a possibility. But not much better. Sorta like government money being used to provide government housing (current) versus government money used to reimburse government approved housing (vouchers). The taxpayer still gets shafted hard.
Homeschooling in the US doubled between fall of 2019 and 2020.
Next thing you will start demanding that parents pay for their own kids meals and clothes--and for all their family needs.
Yup. I’m the anti-Christ.
Fuck Joe Biden!
This is not solely about education. These mandates require vaccination for kids to go to a restaurant.
that in itself is sort of an education
This was Hitlers schtick...undesirable people deemed a risk to society put on lists and forced to take experimental drugs.
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(Lisa asked that her last name be withheld for fear of retribution.)
Of all the fucked up things about this, this is one of the worst.
that makes the mandates more acceptable? Truly you HAVE swallowed the entire pitcher of KoolAde.
Lethally reckless, belligerently ignorant, virus-flouting, antisocial, disaffected, right-wing anti-government cranks are among my favorite culture war casualties.
People who dislike public schools are lousy people. Thank goodness the liberal-libertarian mainstream has won the culture war and put these America-hating losers in their rightful place (whining about all of this damned progress and nipping at the ankles of their betters).
Hicklibs copypasting their set of three programmed responses will be among my favorite Road War casualties.
Open wider, Red Rocks.
And, if you don't start being nicer, your betters might not continue to
be so gracious toward our vestigial clingers in victory.
It always boils down to threats of violence..
No violence. Not necessary.
But plenty of legislation and other rules destined to displease clingers as they watch the liberal-libertarian mainstream continue to shape our national progress against the wishes and efforts of conservatives.
You sure do have an obsession with swallowing, you slack-jawed, slope-foreheaded hicklib.
As Jim Bob said, "boy he got purdy lips."
The public school system is expensive and produces poor results. It is like a $150,000 Pinto. Regardless of how many adjectives and adverbs one adds to a sentence.
So mcaulif, Obama, the Clinton's, and about every progressive politition that sends their kids to private school is a lousy person?
I never thought I would see the day but other Rev is partially right
How else to train "betters"?
Yes they're beyond horrible humans. They help set the "rules" that destroy r public schools. Then keep thier own kids from being involved in the cesspool they helped create. R u really this ignorant?
The Phucko Knows
https://www.wyff4.com/article/federal-contractors-vaccine-mandate-blocked/38451476
GREENVILLE, S.C. —
A federal judge has blocked the vaccine requirement for federal contractors.
Judge Stan Baker in the U.S. Court for the Southern District of Georgia (Augusta) heard oral arguments Friday and issued a preliminary injunction against enforcing the vaccine mandate.
The case was brought by South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson and Gov. Henry McMaster, along with the attorneys general of Georgia, Alabama, Idaho, Kansas, Utah, and West Virginia and the governors of Georgia, Alabama, and Idaho, as well as other state entities.
This is meaningless. The jackasses in the dod, and other 3 letter cancer agencies are putting in vaccine mandate clauses in their contract.
They all deserve execution
i judt got a confirmation of that from an employee of one of those contractors.
If you're stupid enough to put these libtard dictators in power to begin with and keep voting them in time after time after time, you get what you deserve. Want a change? VOTE THE CHANGE! RECALL HIS SORRY BUTT AND THROW HIM OUT OF OFFICE AND VOTE IN A CONSERVATIVE WHO BELIEVES IN INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS!!!!
He's leaving office Jan. 1.
To run for Governor.
Which will go as well as his run for president.
NY doesn't have recalls.
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_New_York
Um, how about a libertarian who believes in individual freedom? Last time we checked, most conservatives were, uh, rather conservative in which freedoms they support.
True, but also true of some of the writers here.
Tighteooh, there.
When one cosiders the ideas they are cramming into the students' heads, the REAL dangers they face going and coming daily, bullies, rapes in bathrooms by boys in skirts, other psych cases bringing guns and otehr dangerous items to schools and killing, maiming, etc, lack of general koiwledge and skills being imparted, and the insane cost per child, better off to keep them home
then thumb yer nose at Billie de Blassio. Wanna jab MY kid? Come and try that. Better bring some friends. Remember, Billie, there has not yet been ONE death in a healthy child anywhere in the US who is in the age group from birth to eighteen years old, and by that time thank God, they are done with your sick system. So WY is it now you insist on squirting lethal gene therapy poison into their arms? Haven't you heard of the hundreds of adolescents droppong dead of heart attacks, coming up with myocarditis, brain damage, etc, within anywhere from a few minutes to a week or two after getting that shot?
If this does not bring hordes of New Yorkers out into the streets to yell and scream and stamp their feet in protest, they never will cause they are all comatose.
creating a de facto category of second-class citizens barred from engaging in normal city life.
Feature, not bug.
The fact that the line is drawn largely based on racial and class distinctions is a bonus for team blue, given their racist tendencies and loathing for the blue collar types.
Marxist is us Marxist does.
Marxisms Feature/ Bug is Class Warfare.
Pitting class against class to grab government power.
To hell with children, they dont vote.
FJB
The left thrives on hatred and division. They have to. They have no real solutions to anything and only create misery.
“…no real solutions…”
Haha. What do you call the green new deal?
They’re full of solutions. Just ask ‘em. Or don’t. They’ll tell ya anyway. They just need more powers!
SUE! SUE! SUE!
Restaurant and business owners should send the NYC government a bill for $50 for each vaccine status certification they are required to make. If the city is going to force them to be employed as law enforcement, they should be paid.
I never did learn who deputised all these business owners and gatekeepers to enforce this Law That Is Not Law... (the legislature did NOT enact this into law) Without being deputise,d they have no teeth to even think about trying to enforce anything.
Of course, the average gatekeeper will be far easier to bamboozle fool, dupe, deceive, and have far fewer "teeth" to sink into your backside when caught crossing that thin red line...... far better they be coopted agasint their will than have real LE do the dirty work of busing, hauling off, fining, etc, We Who Shall Not Comply.
People who don't get the vaccine are like the kind of people who habitually drive over the speed limit, i.e. selfish pieces of shit who kill people every now and then .
HA HA HA
LOCK THEM UP!
People, like Trunp, who knowingly expose other people to a deadly virus are complete trash.
HA HA HA
Loser.
People like you, who practice Marxism, and should be executed.
So people who don’t get the vaccine are like 99% of the drivers?
People who push the vaccine are like the selfish pieces of shit that play red rover on the interstate.
People who mandate vaccines are like the assholes who drive 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane.
..with their turn signal blinking..
Last class asswads
And they fancy that they're "enforcing the law".
I forget what city it was, but they actually tried paying people to be "pace setters".
Yeah, it's so "selfish" to not want to shoot up your children with experimental drugs.
Leave the simpleton alone. It just wants to be told what, when and how to do something. The thought of having to navigate the world without the governments teet and fist is probably very scare. Bless their heart.
Nope, the vaccine is safe and effective.
Then stop worrying about those unvaccinated.
I'm not worried about them. It's the harm they're causing to others that concerns me.
HA HA HA
Look at mother Teresa here.
The vaccine is safe and effective is incongruent with that statement.
if it is, why do they CONTINUE to hide behind Government ecempting them from lawsuits?
That undermines the Constitution.
What harm?
More people catch it from vaccinated people than unvaccinated, you retard. You are just pretending the vaccines work as you wish they did. They don't. Get over it. There is no good reason to worry about whether or not someone is vaccinated.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-but-its-still-more-likely-if-youre-unvaccinated#Vaccines-protect-against-Delta-infection
COVID-19 vaccines continue to work, even in the face of the highly infectious Delta variant — especially when it comes to protecting against severe illness and death.
Fully vaccinated people are also less likely to contract the coronavirus than unvaccinated people. If they don’t contract an infection, they can’t transmit the virus to others.
However, a recent study shows that when fully vaccinated people do contract the coronavirus, they can still transmit it.
Experts say these new results, which were published Oct. 29 in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, should not deter people from getting vaccinated.
Instead, they emphasize that wider vaccine coverage is needed to ensure that when people have an infection, they are well protected against severe COVID-19.
Vaccines protect against Delta infection
In the new study, researchers focused on the transmission of the Delta variant within households, a common setting for coronavirus transmission.
Researchers analyzed data from 204 household contacts of 138 people with a Delta infection.
They found that household contacts who had received two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine were less likely to contract an infection with the Delta variant than unvaccinated people.
According to the analysis, 25 percent of vaccinated contacts exposed to a household member with an infection contracted one themselves.
In contrast, 38 percent of unvaccinated contacts got an infection.
This is in a household setting, where people are in close contact for extended periods.
“These results underpin the key message that vaccinated contacts are better protected than the unvaccinated,” Dr. Annelies Wilder-Smith, a member of The Lancet Commission on COVID-19 and a consultant to the World Health Organization, wrote in an accompanying editorial.
The study was carried out in the United Kingdom, so all study participants were vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.
According to the analysis, 25 percent of vaccinated contacts exposed to a household member with an infection contracted one themselves.
In contrast, 38 percent of unvaccinated contacts got an infection.
From your link.
That's nice. But I'm talking about overall, not the likelihood of an individual transmitting it.
I won't deny that vaccines appear to make some difference in transmission. But it's pretty small. And there is a lot we don't know.
His own link says it is small. It doesn't list the variances, but both are below 50%
Sure moron. That's why they keep telling u fools to take the next booster..., and the next.., and the next. Hopefully u r doing your due diligence and poking that poison into your arm each time your masters tell u to. A virus with a 99.97% chance of survival does not need a vaccine that isn't even close to a vaccine. How EXACTLY does one qualify "less" of an ordeal? Perhaps on your gravestone they can chisel in.... "It could've been worse".
The Phucko Knows
If the vaccine is effective then the unvaccinated are no threat. Right?
RIMSHOT!!
Why would Zombies be scary? They only move a few inches a second...easy to outrun them
Except for all of the side effects like myocarditis, which is greater in number than kids with serious risk to Covid.
define effective.
Safe? Time will tell. It's only been around for a year or so. Safety data still needs a lot of study.
Effective? Certainly less so that initially claimed. Seems to be pretty effective in reducing severity of infections. For a few months anyway. Does not seem to be particularly effective at all in reducing numbers of infections.
Does not seem to be particularly effective at all in reducing numbers of infections.
Understatement of the day.
I like understatement.
The vaccine is safe because the cdc and fda say it is, and say that if you contradict them you an evil heathen, and they are so sure they are saft they don't even need to show the data for 55 uears
I think I’ll sit on the side and safely watch how this experiment works out and not be the Guinea pig. That’s for the sheeple.
U do realize that the ANNUAL flu season runs from November thru April? THATS WHY your silly numbers improved. Sit back moron and WATCH the flu season shit all over your "less" of an ordeal.
The Phucko Knows
Nope, the vaccine is safe and effective.
Then why can't infants be jabbed with it?
Disaffected, dispirited, defeated, delusional, science-disdaining right-wing hayseeds are among my favorite culture war casualties.
Observing better people stomp the clingers' preferences into irrelevance in modern America has been an important and enjoyable endeavor for more than a half-century.
Carry on, clingers . . . better Americans will let you known how far and how long, as usual.
Cool. Why can't infants be jabbed with it?
You posted Hicklib Reponse #1 already, goofy.
Get up off of your damn knees.
People like Lord dipshit are the kinda people that drive 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane ON PURPOSE because they are the highest form of douchebags. i.e. The same people that cause the majority of accidents in the US.
https://ww2.motorists.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/speed-limit-fact-sheet.pdf
Okay well you're wrong. I'm constantly making up for other people's carelessness on the roads.
I doubt that. You’re the sort that causes problems, not prevents them.
….. making up for other people's carelessness….
A tireless saint.
Quite a burden to lug around, must be wrenching.
We appreciate your hard work picking up garbage on the roadside. And you look snazzy in that orange jumpsuit.
Okay well you're wrong. I'm constantly making up for other people's carelessness on the roads.
I'm reminded of a comment my mother once made regarding how she didn't understand why her siblings didn't appreciate having someone around who could show them the right way to do everything.
Whatever would we do without you?
GO LIVE IN COMMUNIST CHINA, YOU SCARED, SELFISH PIECE OF FILTH!!! THIS IS AMERICA! REMEMBER YOUR LIBTARD CHANT! "MY BODY MY CHOICE!!!!!"
Pedophiles like you are selfish pieces of shit who permanently ruin the lives of your victims, Sullum.
when the posted speed limit is 50 and the higway is engineered and maintained for seventy five, where is the danger? Except from Grandma tooling along at a rowdy forty seven and one third mph.....
Generalisations generally are false.
I never did slow down during the Double Nickel Shuffle imposed by the Hotel and Motel trade group.... a few hudnred thsand miles at 75 to 85, NOT 55. Sure, traffic, rain, snow, armdillos crossing the tramac,I heavy monsoon rains, I'd drive a safe speed. Wanna know how may tickets I colected? Let me put in round numbers.. ZEEEEEROH. :ast moving violation was in 1994. New car busted speedo, hard to tell just how fast it ws going, only car on the road.
With children being the lowest risk group for this virus, there is absolutely no good excuse to vaccinate them at all, let alone require it. People who are at risk (over 65) shouldn't have anything to fear anyway if they get the jab. Only virtue-signaling conservatives are at risk. Too bad they're too old to win a Darwin Award when they get sick and die.
Unvaccinated people are more likely to carry and spread the virus and vaccines don't provide perfect immunity so more will die and this virus will infect more people and cause more problems.
No, the virus will infect the exact same number of people, which is everybody who's susceptible. At best you're just dragging out the issue longer by extending the curve.
Exactly since those who are suceptible probably wont get better...thus their suceptibility increases.
It attacks those with faulty immune systems. AIDS II...
But if the vaccinated also spread the virus, it seems pretty pointless.
The most pathetic part of this is that they could simply say, "Look, this clearly doesn't prevent the spread of COVID, but it does lower your symptoms dramatically, even completely," and reject this mandate bullshit entirely. "If you have the jab, don't sweat whether you get sick or not. If you get sick and it's serious, go to the doctor."
They literally should not have to worry about unjabbed people at all, but their fetish for forcing people to do what they want them to do simply can't be sated.
That would take common sense and a bit of modesty not evident in our political class.
Democrats will never give up an opportunity to control people, or persecute those who resist. Plus there are billions in kickbacks to be made off the distribution of the vaccine.
This isn’t a COVID problem, it’s a democrat problem. Lady Strudele is a prime example. We need to get rid of them.
But the goal is to get those jabs into arms. Anything that goes against that goal cannot be spoken.
Sad but true.
YOU PEOPLE GET THE TRASH YOU VOTE FOR!!! WANT A CHANGE, QUIT PUTTING THESE TYRANNICAL LIBTARD DEMOCRAT PIECES OF FECAL MATTER IN OFFICE!! VOTE STUPID, GET STUPID PRIZES LIKE VACCINE MANDATES FOR LITTLE KIDS!!!
LOL, calm down.
And likely counterproductive as vaccinated people are less likely to be tested or worry about mild symptoms.
Unvaccinated people are more likely to carry and spread the virus
That is actually not clear at all.
This is simply false = Unvaccinated people are more likely to carry and spread the virus
Unvaccinated people are more likely to carry and spread the virus
Akshually, vaccinated adults are more likely to carry and spread the virus than unvaccinated children.
a small handful of medical facts for you...
Injectected are at least as able to spread this as are the uninjected.
What about the tens of millioins who have caught the thing, fought it off, and now hafe lifelong immunity agaisnt ALL strains?
COntarst those (I am in that group) with the currently injected who are well known and proven to be very active vectors for spreading it.
Asymptomatic folks can NOT spread the thing..... not enough viral load to cause symptoms, not enough viral load tho "share" with others.
Go find some /ACCURATE verifiable science instead of parotting what you read in the Lame Stream Media. Or gummit proclamations. Most often both groups spew the same false drivel.
PROVE it..... Your nothing more then a parrot of things u literally know nothing about. How about u pull that TV out of your ass and do a little studing of the Spanish Flu and see WHO were the folks dying. Hint moron.... It wasn't the unvaccinated.
The Phucko Knows
It is amazing how stupid you continue to be. Name one conservative that is well known that is against vaccines and not simply against mandates? You truly are a leftist now. Just continuing to push their narratives as fact.
Serious Question ---
Why would anyone want to live or go to New York anyway? That place is a shithole. The suburbs are far, far, far more superior than these big downtown cities, and people vote with their feet constantly showing this.
I live in the Bay Area and absolutely hate everytime I have to go to San Francisco. I'm convinced no one actually likes SF, they just want people to be as miserable as they are, like with people who live in NY.
I mean, if you like paying a premium to live in a crowded, dirty, crime ridden, literal shithole... if you like being entirely dependent on public transportation (or spending 45 minutes to drive 2 miles and find a parking spot, where your car has a good chance to be broken into), if you like ....
If you like paying more for a lower quality of life, then SF and NY is for you!
One of the biggest problems is all the fucks in our media who live in massive downtown shitholes like NY, SF, and Chicago. It really warps their worldview and they think everyone else is or should be as miserable as they are.
For the aroma of bum piss?
The suburbs are strip malls, HOAs run by Karens, chain restaurants and keeping up with the Joneses.
Lol, Strip malls are great and convenient
I had a bunch of coworkers who live in SF talked about how great it was that one of them now lives a few bus stops from a *Target*. Like they are really excited that they can get to target, and it's a big improvement for them.
I didn't really understand. I told them I have pretty much every store they don't have with a few minute's drive (target, home depot, trader joes, safeway, etc), and you could even walk or bike to them if you wanted (my roommate does).
But yeah you get to walk 2 minutes to a club to get smashed. But that gets real old when you arn't a child anymore.
Imagine being excited that you get to go to a *target*?
Imagine being excited that you get to go to a *target*?
On a bus no less.
The strip malls facilitate keeping up with the Joneses.
You can always refuse to play that game. Besides, Amazon is killing most strip malls. Around me they are mostly empty with mexican resturant and a grocery store.
Left the suburbs and that game a couple of decades ago. Couldn’t be happier. Hopefully, folks stay in the cities and surrounding areas.
Depends on the city, I guess. I wouldn't move back into Detroit for anything. Crime, crime, crime and more crime and corruption and shitty schools and services, with no end in sight.
Not suburbs. Not city.
LOL it reminds me of those funny Progressive insurance commercials where the guy is trying teach homeowners to not become their parents.
only a liberal would be excited about riding bus. my goal is to never ride a bus in my life. i like my comfy, gas guzzling F150.
I had to ride the bus in my younger days. It sucks.
I rode the bus once.
Once.
Stop right before mine was the State Mental Institution.
There are plenty of you-tubes about exciting bus rides.
Well said.
they live in privilege in Ivory Towers. They are insulated from life on the streets
That's not always true. Rahm Emmanuel's son was assaulted just outside his home and Emmanuel was the Mayor. And just this week one of Oprah's friends was murdered in her own Beverly Hills house by an SUV.
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/12/02/oprah-on-shooting-death-of-jacqueline-avant-numbed-and-in-shock/
Fuckin SUV’s. If they ain’t killin the planet, they killin folks in parades and houses.
Murderous metal.
45 minutes to drive 2 miles
I can walk 2 miles in 34 minutes.
In some neighborhoods you'll have to speed up your time.
You are arguing the wrong point....The Governor doesn't make laws (neither does the president, mayors...etc etc). He knows this...but most people probably do not. If their congress they did pass a law it would be taken to court and deemed unconstitutional. This will only work if the people blindly follow the "mandate". If I was a business owner I would not let the Governors secret police in my restaurant unless they had a warrant.
AMEN! AND START RECALL PETITIONS FOR EVERY LAST SORRY LIBTARD WHO IS SUBJECT TO RECALL AND THROW THEIR BUTTS OUT OF OFFICE ALL IN ONE FELL SWOOP!!!
Up Next: wolves shouldn't be wolves and they shout stop eating meat!
"She notes that the vaccine for polio was tested on 1 million kids over a decade"
Fun fact: initial rounds of government polio vaccines killed some kids and gave many more polio.
More fun facts:
1) Polio mainly affects children under 5 years of age. Unlike Covid.
2) 1 in 200 infections leads to irreversible paralysis. Among those paralysed, 5% to 10% die when their breathing muscles become immobilized. Unlike Covid
So yeah a disease that mostly effects children with serious consequences such as death and paralysis, might push parents to vaccination. Again unlike Covid.
source:
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/poliomyelitis
Facts and intellectual honesty are anathema to the democrats.
I think it's only 1 in 200 of those infections that manifest in the nervous system. We think that in the days when much drinking water was human-feces-contaminated, most people were infected with the polio virus, but it didn't get out of their gut and into the nervous system in most of them. However, that same water brought cholera, dysentery, hepatitis A,....
Fun fact: initial rounds of government polio vaccines killed some kids and gave many more polio.
Yeah, but that was traced to batches coming out of a single manufacturer. Once they shut the line down, the vaccine-caused polio cases plummeted to nearly nothing. What's notable is that the government at the time didn't deny that the people who got those batches were harmed, but acknowledged that it happened and simply cut off the manufacturing line.
The polio vaccine is actually a textbook case of how a vaccine for a legitimately deadly disease should be tested, rolled out, and monitored.
At least those killed were voluntarily enrolled in what they knew to be a large scale test program.
In fact they weren't. Many of the early kids were in orphanages, where there were no parents to object.
Just clumps of cells anyway.
"Few foresaw that he'd once again brazenly wield his power to create a new underclass composed, oddly, of the tiny humans threatened least by the virus."
Really? Few foresaw a scumbag politician acting like a scumbag?
Scumbag is being nice.
OK. Who is the worst mayor ever of a big American city?
Di Blasio
Richard Daley (the elder)
Marion Barry
Lori Lightfoot
Dennis Kucinich
or ???
Does Burlington, VT count as a big city?
It barely counts as a small city.
Jerry Springer?
Tom Menino?
Mumbles did fine. Got his graft. City didn't collapse.
Sonny Bono?
Only one of these murdered a small furry animal live on TV.
Lightfoot is the only one who offers a reason to repeal the 19th.
Ho's voted for most of those other scumbags as well.
David Dinkins ... no brainer
Does Ted Wheeler of Portlandia make the list?
Frank Rizzo
Coleman Young deserves consideration.
Daley the Elder wasn't bad, Daley the Lesser was bad but not as bad as Lifghtfoot the Least.
Steve Adler.
Coleman Young? Kwame Kilpatrick?
There is sensible public health policy, and then there is authoritarian dick wagging. DeBlasio is wagging his authoritarian dick. It would be a shame if it got caught in the woodchipper.
This is why we reduce, restrain, and decentralize power. Because as it stand now there are very little limits left to these shameless tyrants.
This is the kind of dick waving you championed all along.
Amazing how quickly they forget and act like it's not their fault at all.
The problem is that DeBlasio isn't really accountable to anyone except the national Democratic party, and they're completely on board with this stuff.
On the big complaints coming from the local Dem media in Colorado is that Polis isn't being draconian enough in his engagement policies. Polis might be far-left, but he's not an idiot, and he knows any state-wide mandates are going to be largely unenforceable outside his urban and ski resort strongholds. A lot of the Western Slope and plains counties will simply laugh in his face and continue going about their business, and that's something the idiot Denver media and left-liberal neoyuppies in particular are simply too dim to grasp.
Denvers ignored the States Pre Emption law regarding their AR15 ban. Illegal.
Arrogant.
Yeah, but Denver's a bum- and pothead-infested shithole, and their crime rate has climbed back to 90s-era levels.
That typifies Left run cities.
Bums begat bums!
"Denver's a bum- and pothead-infested shithole, and their crime rate has climbed back to 90s-era levels."
Telling endorsement of selective legalization...
Yeah, no kidding. I was all for it when it passed and thought Hick was being exceptional for arguing against it, but after seeing the results, I say cut that shit off again.
I detest the War on Some Drugs, but as long as you've a sizable chunk of the country where it's illegal, you'd be silly to legalize early. I.e., Noem might actually have a point in S.D. Open it up everywhere at once. That can have merit.
Drugs? Whatever. Go kill yourself if you want, if you're paying for it. Chronic (pun mostly intended) drugusers flocking to your municipality? Not so great.
Eventually, it'll be a nonissue. Likely because we'll have far worse things with which to concern ourselves.
https://www.summitcountyco.gov/DocumentCenter/View/33990/20211130-Revised-Amended-and-Restated-COVID-Local-PHO1130
"Strongly encourages" vaccine passports for all venues, restaurants, and bars. They seem determined to destroy Colorado's tourism industry.
Fucking pieces of shit.
I would encourage anyone thinking about coming to Colorado this winter to just go to Utah or Montana instead. The snow sucks anyway.
Colorado is in the midst of a 20-year drought, and their ski season is likely going to be hot garbage again. Montana might actually be the one place in the US that has decent skiing this year, but you still have to deal with the left-wing bougie assholes who infest the industry.
And don't go to a Vail resort. They have already implemented a vaccine mandate for employees and vaccine passports for many of the eating establishments.
Yeah we canceled our Vail reservation when we saw that. We are vaccinated, but I'll be damned if I am going to normalize a world where we have to provide medical information prior to shelling out thousands of dollars to freeze on the side of a mountain.
The tourism industry is already having problems because of the neoyuppie exodus from the Front Range in to the mountains. They've priced out all the service industry people who need an affordable place to live and a lot of businesses are having problems hiring workers just to keep the lights on.
Oh well--I never went skiing in the decades that I lived there, and they're already going to have another bad drought year from a lack of snowfall, so I could hardly give a shit if the Dem-voting ski resorts get cornholed, especially Summit, Pitkin, and Eagle Counties. Let them beg the champagne socialist second-home owners for help if things get bad.
A ton of the local workers now live in Leadville or even further out.
It's honestly been that way for a while to some degree--I remember reading articles 20 years ago about Hispanic ski resort workers having to commute from Delta County, for example--but it's really accelerated in the last year as the telecommuting class tries to escape the Denver behavioral sink.
Like a lot of areas around the country, these places stopped being affordable for the working class when the champagne socialist crowd started buying up land there and making the local economy entirely dependent on people from outside the community.
You seem to be okay with most of that authoritarian stuff. Glad to know you think your line is the line when most of the rest of us group you with DeBlasio.
THE PEOPLE CAN RECALL HIS BUTT! MAY0RS ARE SUBJECT TO RECALL. QUIT YER GRIPIN' AND GET BUSY CIRCULATING THE PETITION TO THROW HIS BUTT OUT OF OFFICE AND GET A CONSERVATIVE WHO BELIEVES IN INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS!!!
Doesn't work when all of your neighbors are also assholes.
YEAH!
All new Yorkers should be treated as second class citizens
Friendly reminder, if terrorist attacked NY and DC agai, Noone would care
Especially if the terrorist was a red SUV.
the white SUVs dont attack people. They are often found at churches.
Ahem...
FJB
the white SUVs dont attack people
You say that, but the Bronco murdering Nicole and planting OJ's gloves makes a lot of sense.
California OJ kills people..
Old joke...
Orange you glad you aren’t in Cali?
Cant afford it unless youre homeless.
Eric Adams should get out in front of this, tell people to ignore it, and say that any fines from this mandate will be expunged the day he's sworn in.
he's a liberal too so the overwhelming odds are that he likes this policy
>>It changes the definition of fully vaccinated from requiring one shot to requiring two.
"It's a tax." ~~ John Roberts
"it's a vax"
A penalvax?
He said penal. Uh huh huh huh.
"It's a trap!" ~ ~ Admiral Ackbar
I guess the REAL QUESTION is that when the vaccination rate reaches 98% in New York City, (which isn't really feasible anyway, let alone 100%), and some folks are still dying from Covid (which they will be, since no vaccine, nor treatment, has ever been completely effective), is what MANDATE de Blasio will come up with in response.
there is no vax rate for a failing vaccine..that doesnt work....
Only sales profit!
F..king idiots. Kids in NYC - and Texas and Georgia and every other goddamned state - already have to get vaccines to attend. Either Reason opposes all of these vaccines or is a barrel of hypocrites. If the former, you f..king Luddites! If the latter, you GD phonies!
You'll make a good slave.
Robinson Crusoe can give him a referral.
Those vaccines are for things that actually can affect kids.
And they have a 95+% effectiveness of PREVENTING disease. These vaccines are maybe 50% effective or less.
BigT:
"The messenger RNA (mRNA)–based vaccines BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273 are more than 90% effective against coronavirus disease 2019 (Covid-19). ..."
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115463
No, that is BS, as we have seen by the breakout in VT and numerous states with high vax rates. The vaxes appear to be much less effective than advertises, and less effective against the later variations.
No offense BigT, but I'm going with this research in the New England Journal of Medicine and not you on this one.
PS The study is dated Dec 1 2021.
Then don’t worry about the folks that choose not to get vaccinated.
Being a prog means simultaneously accepting two conflicting premises. So argument with this moron will yield no logical response.
the vaxxes are 100% successful in raising drug companies stock prices!
Did you read the whole article? It doesn't come out quite as rosy as you'd like us to think.
In any case, why can't those who are vaccinated with this Super Vaccine stop wearing masks? See, this is where you lose people. I know you can find links on the internet that "prove" all of your talking points. That's nice. But what people in the real world want to know is: when will we see tangible results? You know, a return to some kind of normalcy? The answer is always "...um, um, look a squirrel!"
Enjoy, 90% effective leaves a 10% chance of being infected. At a minimum - given that your chances of dying are 1/12 of those unvaccinated, though again, not zero - that means self quarantining for weeks, unless you're just selfish prick like so many of the unvacinnated are.
I'm sorry that as spoiled snowflakes so many of you expect miracle drugs - which these are - to be something out of a Disney movie, but in the real world we have to deal with the fact that modern medicine - while truly great - is not perfect.
Did they control for seasonality? Hint, no.
When you read the whole article (I suspect he hopes we won't) the study looks less convincing then his cherrypicked quote.
So, if you are vaccinated, you are covered.
Stop worrying about what others may be doing.
why would anyone care about a 10% chance of infection? who the fuck cares? do you expect a world with zero risk from any harm?
justme, a good friend who is vacinnated caught it. Had no symptoms but had to self quarantine - including from his wife - for 3 weeks before he got a negative test.
No thanks
sounds like he's living in a leftist utopia. where i live that shit would not fly. no one is going to force me to quarantine, take unnecessary injections or wear an obedience mask. not gonna happen.
justme, no one forced my friend, He's just not an a..hole like you are apparently. You know, cares about other people and crap like that.
Did your friend realize the CDC said asymptomatic spread was near zero? And he was vaccinated? Truly your friend is an idiot.
That's false Jesse
"a good friend who is vacinnated caught it."
Joe does not see what this means for his constant arguments demanding vaccination. It is almost comical. Almost.
Overt, is 90% effective too much for you to do the math on? Let me help you - that leaves a 10% chance a vaccinated person can be infected.
Think about it. Slowly if necessary.
"Overt, is 90% effective too much for you to do the math on? Let me help you - that leaves a 10% chance a vaccinated person can be infected."
Several times you have posted this line. Like. Seriously...do you NOT realize that this is not what it means to have a 90% effective virus?
You can even go back through Reason articles and there are several places where Bailey and Sullum (I think) explain what this means- that's why most people are laughing at you when you say this over and over again.
You come to these comments at the last second, trying to parachute in and have the last word because you think it makes you look smart. But when you traffic in unscientific demonstrations of your ignorance like this, you are just doubling down on your impression of someone who bloviates without a clue. You can do better, Joe.
but in the real world we have to deal with the fact that modern medicine - while truly great - is not perfect
Exactly. So why do you refuse to let people live that way? You are the one insisting that until conditions are absolutely perfect we have to live like we're in an episode of The Walking Dead. News flash, conditions will NEVER be perfect. Are you arguing that this will be our lives now, forever?
BTW I am vaccinated, a decision made after consulting with my doctor. A REAL doctor. Unlike you, though, I don't have the notion that this infers some sort of moral superiority upon me.
And while we're being real here, let's just admit that these decisions are NOT being made by doctors or scientists. They're being made by politicians who as a class are the most abysmally stupid and corrupt people in the country.
Enjoy, accepting the imperfection of modern medicine with it's obvious successes does not translate to me to not do what is easy and reasonable to avoid dying or spreading a deadly disease. I don't think that makes me morally superior - most Americans have done this now. I wonder about those who insist on fighting the obvious and endangering themselves, their families, and anyone else they have close contact with.
As to politicians, Biden is deferring to a fault - see hold up on FDA clearances for boosters - to the medical and scientific community. Unlike fatso, he's not telling us it will be gone in a month with maybe 15 people dead, and advising to get bleach shots. But hey, why bring up that loser again.
"Easy and reasonable"--for who? You see, I am not so arrogant as to assume that something that is easy for me is easy for everybody.
Enjoy, getting your shot is much easier and reasonable than spending a month in an ICU and maybe getting out or not.
I got over it in 3 days, as did everybody I know.
Yup. Those are the only two realities: get the shot or spend a month in an ICU.
Or have a cold, and be tired for a week.
I hear it’s really hard to get ID for some people.
Do you know people have died from too much oxygen? I implore you to hold your breath until we figure out a way to mitigate this disaster.
https://www.indianapublicmedia.org/amomentofscience/can-oxygen-be-toxic.php
But hey, why bring up that loser again.
Indeed. And yet here you are.
That isn't how effectiveness is calculated.
You and Jeff need to get together and talk about your gaslighting. Here is from Jeff above.
According to the analysis, 25 percent of vaccinated contacts exposed to a household member with an infection contracted one themselves.
In contrast, 38 percent of unvaccinated contacts got an infection.
THE SELFISH A$$HOLES ARE YOU DEMOCRATS WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY SCARED OF YOUR OWN DANGED SHADOW!!! IF YOU'RE SCARED EVEN WITH THE SHOTS, WHY DON'T YOU KEEP YOUR COWARDLY BUTTS AT HOME? THE REST OF US INTEND TO LIVE OUR LIVES AND TO PERDITION WITH YOU AND YOUR IRRATIONAL FEAR!!!
I'm sorry - could you speak up a little bit?
"Enjoy, 90% effective leaves a 10% chance of being infected."
Everyone please note that Joe does not understand what "90% effective" means when he pompously discusses The Science! (tm).
We have seen this before when he tries to talk about historical life expectancy. We see it now when he thinks a 90% effective vaccine means you have a 10% chance of being infected. Instead, he will spend a few minutes googling to find out how he got this wrong, and he will be back tomorrow insisting that he is ever so smart and has The Science! (tm) on his side.
Alphabet called him a parody earlier. Could be right.
He is one of those very, very borderline cases.
Parody should contain some humor.
They can’t all be OBL, I guess.
Overt, 90% effective leaves a 10% chance of being infected.
"Overt, 90% effective leaves a 10% chance of being infected."
No it doesn't Joe. And since you continue to post this mis-statement around, after multiple people have called you out on it, I will give the thread a bone, so that at least your ignorance stays with you.
A 90% effective vaccine reduces an existing infection chance by 90%. Covid never, ever had a 100% chance of infecting anyone, and so reducing it by 90% does not get anyone close to a "10% chance of being infected". As it is, the chances of being infected are already very low- generally less than 1% chance.
It is noteworthy that in several recent studies, the effectiveness of mRNA vaccines was observed to be between 50% and 80%. Why it varies so heavily is not clear, but it appears that time since last jab is a major factor. So blanket assertions of 90% effectiveness are as honest as asserting that if you buy a rose, you will forever smell 90% like a rose.
Lol. Now do Israel.
How do u swallow with all that bullshit pouring out of your mouth? U r nothing more then an INDUSTRY parrot. The least u could do is take off that mask your hiding behind and be honest about the clown that u r. 99.97% recovery rate... Only 6% actually dying FROM a virus. The median age of death in America is 78-yrs old. The folks dying r fat and unhealthy beast and over 80. So what's the problem moron?
The Phucko Knows
"already have to get vaccines to attend."
It is interesting that after even ADMITTING that this is not true on previous threads when shown the proof in surveys of actual state laws, you continue to just show up to these threads parroting this lie. That makes you a propagandist, Joe. You know that what you are saying is untrue- because you have been called out on it in the past- but you still show up repeating the lie in order to try and confuse any reasonable discussion of the issues.
"Either Reason opposes all of these vaccines or is a barrel of hypocrites."
Reason, and most of the people here, don't oppose the vaccines. We oppose mandates. Especially for vaccinating children from a disease that represents zero danger to themselves.
But you know this. You are deliberately lying about the facts of the law and misrepresenting what Reason (among others) has said in the past.
You have been here on these forums claiming that you came to argue in good faith. Well, here is (yet another) action to the contrary.
When you finally decide you have clowned up the reputation of Joe Friday enough that nobody takes you seriously any more, I truly hope that you take these lessons to heart on your next pseudonym.
Many people believe that to support something you must force it upon others. So in their minds those of us who oppose mandates also oppose the vaccine, because else how can you get everyone vaccinated?
Not the issue sarcasmic. This article is written as if there was something new about Covid vaccines when every mfing state in the country requires kids to be vaccinated. If you don't like that, tough luck.
Adding COVID to the list of vaccines doesn't make a lot of sense since kids are a very low risk group.
sarcasmic, they are not a no-risk group and of course the high rate of contagion of covid viruses means we want to limit it's possible hosts.
I said "low" not "no." And the vaccine doesn't prevent infection nor does it stop infected people from spreading the virus. At best it keeps someone who might otherwise die from having a severe illness. You can't convince me that that's an excuse to jab kids.
sarcasmic, you are 1/7th less likely to catch it if vaccinated, and thus spreading it.
We're talking about children here. Not me, not my parents, not you, but children. The lowest risk group.
Look. I don't oppose the vaccine. I'm not some conservative nutter who refuses to get vaccinated so I can virtue signal to my conservative nutter friends.
I do oppose mandated vaccination, especially among the lowest risk group. If someone is in a high risk group then they're dumb to not get the jab. But it should be a choice. If they want to die while making a political statement that's fine by me.
sarcasmic, not getting vaccinated impacts all of us because you are more likely to catch it and therefore spread it. You keep ignoring this fact. I don't care if someone takes precautions or not for a non-communicable conditions, but that's not what this is.
If you're vaccinated why should you care? You're touting the effectiveness of the vaccine. That's great. If it's so effective, then why worry?
sarcasmic
December.7.2021 at 11:42 am
Flag Comment Mute User
Many people believe that to support something you must force it upon others. So in their minds those of us who oppose mandates also oppose the vaccine, because else how can you get everyone vaccinated?
You just said this. Then you said this:
Look. I don't oppose the vaccine. I'm not some conservative nutter who refuses to get vaccinated so I can virtue signal to my conservative nutter friends.
You are so full of crap. You are attacking those against mandates. Why do people call you a lefty. Let me think...
sarcasmic, read my lips. 90% effective means there is a 10% chance the vaccinated can catch it. If I catch it, there is a low chance I could die from it - but still there - but I might unknowingly give it to my 8 month old granddaughter, and at a minimum I would need to self quarantine until I got a negative test. That happened to a good friend and it took him 3 weeks to get that test and hang out with his wife and friends again.
Is there anything you don't understand about what I just wrote sarcasmic because I'm getting tired of explaining what should be obvious.
That's still not how they calculate effectiveness. You should probably look into how it actually works.
That was the way traditional vaccines worked, but not this one. You should do some more research.
Is your good friend the one that went deep undercover to investigate an ethnic gang? I haven’t seen Donnie Brasco so please, no spoilers.
Chumby, that FBI agent was not a good friend but an acquaintance I met through a close relative who was the prosecutor on the case - and also the agents good friend. That you don't think that kind of thing goes on with very brave individuals risking their life in their job is a comment on your shallowness.
Was going to buy you a jump to conclusions mat for Xmas but (1) the Biden regime has fucked up supply chains so it is likely not possible to get one now and (2) you already have one in good condition.
"read my lips. 90% effective means there is a 10% chance the vaccinated can catch it. "
Of course, anyone other than Joe understands that this is not actually how effectiveness is measured, and it definitely not what they mean when a virus is "90% effective". But that won't stop Joe from insisting that he knows The Science! (tm)
"I might unknowingly give it to my 8 month old granddaughter, and at a minimum I would need to self quarantine until I got a negative test."
1) You might unknowingly give it to your 8 month old granddaughter NO MATTER WHAT. Because vaccination doesn't prevent you from being infected. In fact, if indeed vaccination reduces symptoms, you are MORE likely to be walking around "unknowingly" infected.
2) The risk to your 8 month old granddaughter is negligible, unless she is somehow immunocompromised, in which case she is far more at risk from the flu than Covid.
My GOD man u r truly one of the all time idiots on this planet. I guess that's what happens when your all alone living in mom's basement. U r as gross as a human can be.
The Phucko Knows
Overt, please tell us how "effectiveness" is measured since you keep saying I don't understand it but offer no explanation as to what you mean.
Of course it does not mean that 10% of the population who is vaccinated will get it and I didn't say that or imply that. It means - as I implied by always linking it to the 90%, meaning a relative value - that if exposed to the right conditions where I would be infected if I weren't vaccinated I have a 90% chance of not getting it but a 10% chance of getting it.
Also of course the likelihood that I wouldn't infect my 8 month old granddaughter is greater than that I would. Who the f..k plays those odds when they don't have to? Do I know if she is immunocompromised?
You people don't seem to understand that a small chance - yet still a bigger chance than many other ways to die, as noted above - that is potentially deadly but avoidable with little effort is logically worth the effort. Given that the behavior of others impacts that chance and that is why the SC has decided the state has an interest making all take the safe steps or stay the f..k home.
"Overt, please tell us how "effectiveness" is measured since you keep saying I don't understand it but offer no explanation as to what you mean."
I explain above, but for the sake of the thread, when they describe the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines as "90% effective" it means that in controlled trials, they observed a 90% reduction in the development of symptoms in the trial group versus the control. This means that when you say "only a 10% chance the vaccinated can catch it" you are wrong on two counts:
1) Your chances are somewhere closer to .05% chance vs an unvaccinated person's .5% chance. Both extremely small numbers.
2) This is about developing symptoms, not "catching it". While there is LIKELY a reduction in viral load in your body, meaning you aren't at as high of a risk, you have STILL CAUGHT THE VIRUS. That means when you go visit your granddaughter there is still a small chance that you are sick. The main difference is that a vaccinated person is more likely *to not know they are sick* because they have reduced symptoms.
And, again, let us not forget that the 90% number you keep claiming has been abandoned even by the CDC. After a few months it is an uncontroversial fact that the vaccination's effect has reduced substantially.
"Also of course the likelihood that I wouldn't infect my 8 month old granddaughter is greater than that I would. Who the f..k plays those odds when they don't have to? "
This is where I lose patience with you, Joe. If you really were concerned about your GD to this extent, you wouldn't visit her. Period. Vaccination only protects YOU from developing symptoms. You can carry the virus- and in fact if you do carry the virus you are less likely to know it- and you can still pass it to her.
So then you turn around and say something like "Well at least I reduced the chances by some amount, even if we don't know how much". But that makes your self-righteousness a lot less tollerable. You are essentially arguing exactly the same thing as the anti-vaxxers. That is, you accept there is no binary "dangerous" not "dangerous" line, and still claim to be a paragon of virtue because you maybe, possibly are exposing your granddaughter to a little less danger (and that is not even known to be a fact). It is tantamount to getting self righteous at someone because they choose to drive their kid on the highway while you only take side streets. Sure you have reduced some risks (less likely high speed accident), but still introduced others (more time on the road, so increased chances of low speed accidents)...you have picked a balance between risk and reward. That doesn't make you more right than the highway driver, just making different choices.
"Do I know if she is immunocompromised?"
Given that in 2 years of pandemic, less than 1000 children have died withthis disease- a rounding error in statistical significance- the likelihood is that your GD is safe. But rather than put faith in a talisman like vax status, if you are really worried, the more likely way to ensure her safety is a discussion with her parents and/or doctors.
There's not zero risk you won't die from driving your car. So stop driving. There's not zero risk you won't die from lightning, so don't go outside.
Life has risk every waking moment. If you are trading your freedoms for a small risk, fine, do it. Don't push you're fears onto others.
Jesse. most of us are pretty attached to the lifestyle driving a car brings us here in America, and that includes probably having a job. What is the benefit of not getting a proven safe vaccine?
Hey fuckhead, if the vaccines are so critical, how come they didn't start testing on kids until MARCH of this year, and infants aren't required to get the jab?
I'm attached to the lifestyle of walking around in open air.
What is the benefit of not getting a proven safe vaccine?
What is the benefit for believing that this vaccine doesn't have side effects when it does? especially in younger people. Namely heart inflammation being the big one. For a disease that has the same risk profile to me as someone driving to work every day.
Jesse:
"A new study of a large, diverse population found that the risk of heart inflammation after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination is real, but it’s fairly mild and extremely rare.
In a study of over 2.3 million people ages 18 and older, only 15 cases of myocarditis were identified. Thirteen of these cases occurred after the second shot, while two occurred after the first shot.
The risk of myocarditis after COVID-19 has been found to be much higher
Researchers examined the electronic health records of over 2.3 million Kaiser Permanente Southern California members ages 18 and older who received at least one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna-NIAID vaccine between December 2020 and July 2021.
They identified 13 cases of myocarditis after the second dose — a rate of 5.8 cases per million second doses given.
Two cases occurred after the first dose, making for a much lower rate of 0.8 cases per million first doses.
“[This study] supports that this is a real phenomenon,” said Dr. Ira Taub, a pediatric cardiologist at Akron Children’s Hospital, who was not involved in the research. “The risk, though, is very, very small.”
The findings were published on Oct. 4 in the JAMA Internal MedicineTrusted Source..."
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heart-inflammation-risk-after-covid-19-vaccine-is-real-but-very-rare
The risk of Covid to me is having any sort of harmful effect is also rare and fairly mild.
Same with kids.
Thanks for agreeing with me. You ignore the risks you choose, I'll ignore the risks I choose. That's how freedom works dummy.
Also...
Of those cases identified after second doses, 563 followed the Pfizer vaccine series. In total, that's approximately 12.6 heart inflammation cases per million doses administered in the United States.
Among the 1,226 patients, 484 are younger than 29, and roughly two-thirds are men.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/06/experts-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-likely-tied-heart-inflammation
I'm pretty attached to being alive. My dad, 68 year old in good health, now has vaccine induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia after getting the vax. I've had covid and recovered. Both of my small boys have had it and recovered. I have better immunity than the fully vaccinated. Why would I ever risk the vaccine side effects for zero benefit? You are a lunatic.
Kaye, your immunity is not as good as those vaccinated and as many as 30% of those who have had it do not develop anti-bodies. It is recommended that those who have had be vaccinated as it will boost whatever immunity you have.
Hope your dad is recovering, but for others the odds of his condition are 2 per million doses per the CDC which is much lower than mortality or serious illness from covid.
https://www.hematology.org/covid-19/vaccine-induced-immune-thrombotic-thrombocytopenia
Doesn't stop u from testing positive. Doesn't stop u from getting sick.. Doesn't stop u from spreading it. Doesn't stop u from dying from it. But wait... It can make all that "less" obtrusive. A mRna shot is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM a freaking vaccine. Something is seriously wrong with u. I guess the shot is f-ing with your abilities to actually think. Which should not surprise. As it IS one of the many side effects. Pretty soon u will a 24/7 babbling idiot. But alas... U will the last one to recognize it.
The Phucko Knows
You have literally called out conservatives, including in this very thread, of not supporting vaccines because they are against mandates.
How many times have you pushed the strawman that those you think are your enemies are claiming if something is not 100% effective nobody should do it?
Your lack of self awareness continues to be breathtaking.
Overt:
"2021-2022 Immunization Requirements for Schools
A student shall show acceptable evidence of vaccination prior to entry, attendance, or transfer to a child-care facility or public or private elementary or secondary school in Texas...."
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.aspx
"According to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association, in the U.S. children represent about 16% of all COVID-19 cases. COVID-19 in children has been on the rise in the U.S., with children recently making up 24% of just over 100,000 weekly reported cases of COVID-19.
While all children are capable of getting the virus that causes COVID-19, they don't become sick as often as adults. Most children have mild symptoms or no symptoms.
However, some children become severely ill with COVID-19. They might need to be hospitalized, treated in the intensive care unit or placed on a ventilator to help them breathe, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)...."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-20484405
Why aren't vaccines for the flu and pneumonia on the list? They're airborne viruses after all, and far more likely to be fatal to children. Why is polio still on the list, even though it's been eradicated in this country? Why isn't HPV on the list?
Slit your wrists
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/exemptions.aspx
"Exclusions from compliance are allowable on an individual basis for medical contraindications, active duty with the armed forces of the United States, and reasons of conscience, including a religious belief."
So you *know* that this is the case, since we have called you out on it before. Why do you persist in trying to traffic misrepresentations of the truth? Do you think the best way to convince people on the internet is to lie to them?
Your quote from mayoclinic does not contradict what I said. The risk to children of serious complications from Covid- let alone death- are so small as to be effectively zero. To be sure, in some specific cases, such as children with compromised immune systems or other health risks, the risk of complications from Covid are higher. In which case they and their parents should be perfectly capable of deciding whether the vaccine is warranted for themselves.
But you know this. Despite knowing that Texas has a vaccine exemption process, you tried implying the opposite. Despite knowing that children are at no risk from Covid, you tried to imply the opposite with a highly selective quoting of a medical form.
Why are you shitting up the comments with misinformation? Is it *so* important for your ego to be stroked that you will actively lie to the readers of this forum? Do you really think they will look at your links and go, "You know what? Joe is totally telling the truth!" Seriously, do you think that is happening? Because it isn't. You are coming off as completely clownlike and disingenuous.
Rather than double down with more misrepresented links, you should just take a breather and come back in a few more days.
Overt, the same exceptions - and others including testing - are available for most if not all covid vaccine mandates, including those Biden is instituting. Your argument is irrelevant,.
"Overt, the same exceptions - and others including testing - are available for most if not all covid vaccine mandates, including those Biden is instituting."
So we now see Joe changing his argument from, "Mandates already existed so you are a hypocrite for refusing this one" to, "Mandates never really existed so this is nothing new."
And it is noteworthy that the OSHA and Healthcare rules do not offer conscientious objector exemptions. It is also noteworthy that the EEOC's guidance to employers is for them to deny the religious accommodation if they cannot make some alternative accommodation such as work from home or reassignment to another job.
Again, Joe, do you think this isn't transparently obvious? You still didn't answer my question as to why you started off this thread by misrepresenting the actual state of the law. Why did you do that?
Overt, the fact that there are exemptions for both existing vaccine mandates and for the covid vaccine mandate means these are comparable situations which most of you are either ignoring or pretending something unique is going on. Are you saying that if there is a religious exemption for the Covid vaccines that you are OK with it? Really? Small potatoes.
The SC has already affirmed the right of state governments to require vaccines so the only legal precedent not established is whether the feds can. Small potatoes.
Hey fuckhead, if the vaccines are so critical, how come they didn't start testing on kids until MARCH of this year, and infants aren't required to get the jab?
"Overt, the fact that there are exemptions for both existing vaccine mandates and for the covid vaccine mandate means these are comparable situations which most of you are either ignoring or pretending something unique is going on."
No that isn't the fact, and you are trying to have it both ways.
1) In most cases, Americans have been able to avoid vaccinations as a condition of work. This blanket requirement for COVID vaccination is new.
2) In many situations where vaccination was required, the citizen could object and receive an exemption for any reason, including (but not limited to) medical and religious. The COVID workplace mandates limit *only* to religious and medical exemption.
2a) It is also noteworthy that in some places, like New York so far, the religious exemption has been disallowed for the COVID vaccine for healthcare workers. So, again, in specific cases, you are flat out wrong.
3) In most of the country (say, for example a school), when you are exempted from vaccination, that is the end of it. You hand over a signed form and continue in every activity that others engage in. The EEOC guidance is to actually *deny* your exemption if they cannot make you work from home, pay to test you weekly, or reassign you to a new position. So, again, a major departure.
4) You are of course trying to distract from the fact that this actual article is about a mandate (for children) to go into restaurants. While you might think you are fooling people with vague hand waving, people recognize that there is a difference between school vaccination requirements and "going about your life" vaccine requirements.
"The SC has already affirmed the right of state governments to require vaccines so the only legal precedent not established is whether the feds can."
Which is of course a non-sequitur. Again you are changing the subject. You went from "This has always been mandated, what's the problem?" to "It was never really a mandate, so what's the problem?" to "Well the SC said the mandate/non-mandate was ok, so what's the problem".
But, at the risk of you changing the subject ONCE AGAIN- while you obviously see the SCotUS as some sort of moral beacon, I and many others are less sanguine. SCotUS has long sanctioned various abuses at the hands of the drug war, the surveillance state, and has a history of sanctioning abuses such as slavery and japanese internment. The idea that we should accept vaccine mandates because the SCotUS said it's ok is a fallacious example of appealing to authority.
Overt, this is the most deadly contagious disease in the the US since 1919 and has killed more than that event as well as more than any war we've been in and it has killed more than the yearly dead from heart disease or cancer. Maybe you don't get why that is different seasonal flu, but most Americans have.
I get that you want easier exemptions for the mandate, but glad to hear - based on that being the narrow turf you are still trying to defend - you are otherwise OK with it.
Overt, this is the most deadly contagious disease in the the US since 1919 and has killed more than that event as well as more than any war we've been in and it has killed more than the yearly dead from heart disease or cancer.
That is highly doubtful given the way the data is collected. If a person dies and tests positive it counts as a COVID-related death, regardless of the actual cause of death.
Someone dies in a skydiving accident and the red spot tests positive, it's a COVID related death. Someone riddled with tumors succumbs to cancer, but tests positive, it's a COVID related death.
Fact is we'll never know how many people actually died from COVID because nobody is bothering to document the actual cause of death. Tested positive? COVID related.
When the CDC guy reads the numbers, he says "with." The dishonest media and politicians then say "of" or "from."
Changing a word doesn't make it so.
Joe, it is still less harmful overall than obesity and weight related problems.
When are you calling for forced national diets?
Jesse, I was with Michelle Obama - I'm sure you were too - when she promoted good diets for kids from the WH, but while troubling, those are not communicable diseases.
"Overt, this is the most deadly contagious disease in the the US since 1919 and has killed more than that event as well as more than any war"
And so Joe has come full circle. Let's recap, shall we:
"This is how we've always treated vaccine mandates," becomes "We've never really had mandates so this is no different," which then changes to "Of course this is a different and unprecedented illness so who cares if it is different?"
But setting aside yet another tiresome dodge, you are once again being disingenuous with your facts. The 1968 (Hong Kong) Flu killed between 2 and 4 Million people. That is a rate of 566 - 1132 deaths per million people Globally. (The current global rate is ~667/Million)
The 1957 Asian Flu Pandemic killed an estimated 1 - 4 Million people- that's 350 - 1,400 per million. Again, in line with the current global count.
And note that these are gross estimates that are not adjusted for age. Like COVID, previous pandemics disproportionately affected the elderly. And the elderly were a lower percentage of the population (ex: in 1960's US, 9% of americans were over 65, while 2020 that number was ~17%). It is easy to envision a per capita death rate 50 - 75% higher if there had been as many 65+ elderly during those previous Pandemics.
joe, I didn't say promoted, I said forced. Just like you want vaccines mandated.
Let's disallow fat people from working to remain consistent, agreed?
Overt has conveniently forgotten that he questioned why Covid vaccines are uniquely mandated for work conditions, and then accuses me of changing the subject when I tell him why.
Then he confuses Hong Kong flu deaths worldwide with US deaths At 34k to 100k, best estimate, this nothing compared to Covid, heart disease and cancer deaths here, which is the better comparison for similar numbers.
I'm tired of his circular reasoning, if it can be called that, and want to get off.
"Overt has conveniently forgotten that he questioned why Covid vaccines are uniquely mandated for work conditions, and then accuses me of changing the subject when I tell him why."
Haha. No.
Let's go back to see what Joe said: "these are comparable situations which most of you are either ignoring or pretending something unique is going on. "
So Joe in fact was the one saying that these are comparable situations. This is because he *started* the thread with a this contempt-ridden post: "F..king idiots. Kids in NYC - and Texas and Georgia and every other goddamned state - already have to get vaccines to attend. Either Reason opposes all of these vaccines or is a barrel of hypocrites."
See, it was Joe who said *the response* to Covid wasn't terribly different and that makes complaints today either luddite or hypocritical. I merely pointed out that the *response* to Covid is in fact quite different from history. Joe seems to agree with me, because now he wants to justify that very different response.
So which is it Joe? Is this the same response as history, so we should stop complaining, or is this a different response because it is an unprecedented virus?
Of course Joe knows he has argued himself into a corner and wants to get off. Surprising.
sarcasmic, while there is uncertainty about the precise number of dead from Covid, that is true of any disease, and there is less uncertainty than some - usually with an ax to grind - claim. There are also ways to estimate deaths for a period and compare to actual recorded deaths to estimate the number. The respected Economist did this recently with these results:
OFFICIAL COVID-19 DEATHS PER 100,000 ESTIMATED EXCESS DEATHS PER 100,000 ESTIMATE V OFFICIAL
Asia 1,229,432 26.3 4m to 13m 85 to 280 +700%
Europe (incl. EU) 1,442,126 192.6 2.5m to 2.6m 330 to 350 +80%
Latin America and Caribbean 1,544,415 235.5 2.1m to 2.4m 330 to 360 +50%
Africa 223,635 16.3 890k to 2.7m 65 to 190 +900%
European Union 856,719 191.6 980k to 1m 220 to 230 +20%
North America 819,599 220.9 910k to 1.1m 240 to 290 +20%
Oceania 3,357 7.8 −6.6k to 15k −15 to 35 −100%
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-estimates
Scientific American reported on how the numbers were collected in America earlier:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/debunking-the-false-claim-that-covid-death-counts-are-inflated1/
Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Joe, you do know that Asia only counts covid deaths if they are tied to some type of breathing issue such as pneumonia right?
Expected more of you sarcasmic.
Jesse, I have not been particularly concerned about Asia except as an incubator for new variants.
I'm pretty good at detecting bullshit, and the COVID number stink of it. Not sure what you expected, but apparently that's not it.
Hey fuckhead, if the vaccines are so critical, how come they didn't start testing on kids until MARCH of this year, and infants aren't required to get the jab?
If you're going to shriek like a bitch about this, stop accusing Reason of hypocrisy and exercise some consistency of your own.
OR that it's estimated (I'm too lazy to find the link buy you can find it in darkhorse podcast 85) for every 3 older lives save we lose two younger lives. I'm pretty sure a trade for really old and not great health is not worth healthy and young.
My GOD man u r truly one of the all time idiots on this planet. I guess that's what happens when your all alone living in mom's basement. U r as gross as a human can be.
The Phucko Knows
Overt, well said. At this point I can't take anything "world's best contractor" joe says anymore. I'm pretty sure he has no interest in the line of thought here, he most likely has to be some sort of troll (maybe paid) or a masochist the gets a rise at reading our thoughts.
Thanks for the compliment MT man but no one pays me for the gems I give you for free. I post here to convince lurkers with facts and reason. Most of you are hopeless, though maybe not all.
Thanks for the compliment MT man but no one pays me for the gems I give you for free.
Your pyrite isn't gold, you senile moron.
Poisoning the well fallacy.
lol I thought you were Fridays only but I see you're here to entertain more often
Friday is the Applebee's of Reason. There are better options around.
at least @Cheddars they don't microwave the menu
Friday is the Fridays. With an inadequate amount of flair.
He's the Lumbergh of Reason.
Anything is a vaccine if you just call it one!
exactly. leftists always change language to fit their narrative. they've morphed and changed the definition of "vaccine" in the last 18 months to fit the "everyone must get the gov injections" narrative. people with a 3 digit iq see right through this farce.
The MMR and tetanus vaccines are for diseases which severely harm a large amount of children who catch them. The amount of children who have died while having COVID in the US hasn't even hit 4 figures. Not, killed by COVID, but died while having COVID because the CDC does not differentiate. If you die of blood loss while having COVID, the CDC has you penciled in as died of COVID.
Actually the CDC does get the wording correct. They say "Died with COVID."
It's the media and politicians who dishonestly change "with" to "of" or "from."
But they don't differentiate with/from I don't think.
They don't because they don't track the actual cause of death. That's why the CDC says "with." They don't know the cause of death. It's the people repeating the numbers who say COVID was the cause of death. Sadly nobody corrects them on it.
While driving I listened to an interview with a CDC guy, and he said exactly that. They don't know the cause of death. That takes time and money to determine. They do know someone is dead, and they know they tested positive. So they log it as COVID-related, regardless of the cause of death. They fully admit to this.
This, by the way, has been a problem for a long time. That is why when estimating yearly flu deaths, they look to people dying with Pneumonia-like symptoms. Because it was equally true that people would be admitted, test positive for flu, and succumb to their gunshot wound. So they added flu-like and pneumonia related symptoms as an attribute to try and control for that.
I'd really like to see how many flu deaths we could count if we tested for flu viruses like we are for SARS2.
Or probably I wouldn't like to see what happens. But it is an interesting question. I bet we'd break 100,000 every year. Perhaps a lot more.
Flu is only testable for about 3 days after onset of infection. Covid for 4 months. It was a study done at one of the USC schools that somewhat explains the missing flu last year as people stayed away from testing labs for flu
Yeah, I'm not trying to say they are being dishonest about that.
How many times does this myth have to be shown to be false for you to stop repeating it Joe?
What comes after infinite?
Epsilon. Un-countable infinity.
endgame?
That ended all Marvel movies for me. One of the greatest comic arcs of my childhood turned into an eco warrior and a "whoops, we forgot to use Adam Warlock"
My body my choice...
Hows Government agree with that for killing babies but not for vaccines?
Fuck DeBlowhard...and Biden
https://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/caption-this-lincoln-listens-to-biden-s-speech-t22520.html
Oh and PS...
How long ago was it " only adults as children arent suceptible?"
Long enough for profit mongers to develop a marketing campaign for children...
Pfi$er
Odd that incoming mayor Eric Adams hasn't disavowed the mayor's use of dictatorial power.
Wait, did I say 'odd'? I meant 'completely understandable'.
the root word of ' dictator' is ' dick'...
FJB
"unnecessarily coercive"
There is no such thing to a fascist.
There are only two possible positions:
1. COVID is very dangerous, the vaccines are completely safe, everyone needs to be forced by the state at gunpoint to take the vaccines
2. COVID is no big deal, the vaccines are very dangerous, everyone needs to be forced by the state at gunpoint to associate with everyone regardless of vaccination status
Yup, only two possible positions.
No jeff. There is only one possible position: COVID and the vaccine are a hoax perpetrated by the lizard people to create a one world government.
Anyone who disagrees is a liar who voted for Biden.
Well sure. But there is also the pro-lizard-people position, the one that thinks the vaccines are safe, but their position is the Marxist anti-American fascistic tyrannical position.
Two idiots walked into a bar…………
You went to a bar with Jesse?
To be fair, you certainly don't walk, but you do waddle, fat boy.
Two idiots enter a bar, one already staggering drunk, the other riding an Amigo…
You should be asking your friendly alcoholic where to meet you before the ministry bathroom.
Two idiots walked into a bar…………
Everyone else just ducked.
Says no one.
De Blasio's New York Shouldn't Treat Unvaccinated Kids as Second-Class Citizens
Requiring kids as young as 5 to either get vaccinated or stay home is not as smart or as necessary as de Blasio claims.
This is Reason asking nicely. Wait until they get mad.
Since blank covid vaccine cards are easy to replicate (with a photo copier and thin white cardboard) and don't contain a name, age, address or photo, I think fake (i.e. free market) covid vaccine cards will quickly resolve de Blasio's totalitarian vaccine mandate (if Eric Adams or the courts don't do so sooner).
The City of New York is NOT going to fine or penalize any grocery store, convenience store, restaurants, bars, concert venues, movie theatres or other retailers because they failed to discover and reject a fake covid vaccine card.
Besides, the only way the City could enforce the vaccine mandate is by conducting sting operations on retailers (i.e. by having undercover cops with a fake covid cards attempt to enter a business), which isn't going to happen.
There is a principle at work here, though. I currently live under a vaccine passport requirement. I have a vaccine passport but I refuse to use it. Its crossed my mind that I could forge a passport (and I may do that if I had to access a venue that requires a passport--- or the list of venues is expanded to the so-called critical business such as grocery stores etc.) but the fact of the matter is that my refusal to show my passport is as much a personal decision to not participate in the regime's diktats.
I have yet to be confronted with the decision to prove vaccination or not do something. I'm inclined to do the same and refuse. That's what people need to do.
I did it once. For beer (Mott the Lesser).
I was confronted with the same decision as DEG. I kept my job.
And I can't blame anyone for making that choice. But it's something I struggle with.
Masks are a symbol of compliance.
"It ideological!" @1:23
*is*
"Charged with organizing an illegal in-person gathering".
I'm trying to think how the left would have reacted to such a charge any time before the mid-1990s.
Mostly peaceful protests are exempt, regardless of the number of deaths or total amount of damage.
Unless Republicans - - - - - -
WHO’D A THUNK?!
Citing mounting evidence of ongoing harm, U.S. Surgeon General Vivek H. Murthy on Tuesday issued a public health advisory on the mental health challenges confronting youth, a rare warning and call to action to address what he called an emerging crisis exacerbated by pandemic hardships.
https://apple.news/A5kyfJv8ES7-1MkCUCbhD0w
Maybe he could just repeal all the two year "emergency" edicts from unelected bureaucrats and let the teenagers live their lives?
Maybe?
The pandemic has created no hardships; the fascists government responses to a new virus has created havoc, however.
No Shit Dick Tracy..
Thats a little late to the party!
I appreciate the arguments being made here against de Blasio's stupid and probably unconstitutional policies, but before we dignify his policy here with a rational response, we should take a moment to point out de Blasio's policy is simple trolling. He's got about as much reasoning behind this policy as Tony, Shrike or ChemJeff. de Blasio just wants to get a lot of media attention as he's being shoved out the door--probably because he wants to run for governor. Bringing attention to himself in this way to further his standing in those primaries is almost certainly the main rationale for his actions here on a vaccine mandate, and we should remember that. We should be criticizing this as the exercise in self-aggrandizement that it is.
Somebody said something smart, once, about not casting pearls before swine. The swine, in this case, is sacrificing the best interests of children, among others, in the interests of self-aggrandizement ahead of his hoped for governor's campaign, and if we're not pointing that out, we're not really addressing the cause of this vaccine mandate. Progressives are all about using the coercive power of government to inflict themselves on the unwilling, and this is another example of that. Progressive politicians treating people like shit for not feeling what they're told genuinely appeals to the sensibilities of progressive voters--which is further evidence that progressives are America's most horrible people.
Bill Clinton once executed a man who might as well have been mentally retarded--just so that he could make it seem like he was tough on crime.
Bill de Blasio is kicking children in the teeth on his way out the door to ingratiate himself with progressives--and we're arguing against the reasons for doing that in rational terms?
Bill de Blasio is a douchebag, and that's all the reasonable argument required here.
the people he represents in NYC want that kick in the teeth hard and he's hoping their love for his boot carries out into Orange County et al. when Bill runs for governor.
Shorter Ken: Progressives are the root of all evil.
$511,146 divided by 1,343 donors equals an average of $380.60! Either a few people are giving a whole lot, or you guys are a lot more generous than I thought. I guess all that stimulus money had to go somewhere.
Reason can now buy that Hunter painting.
There's always been a rumor that they use squirrels on exercise wheels to power their servers. Maybe they can afford to upgrade to solar or something. I guess we can confirm that they don't use Amazon Web Services. Seems like everything I want to use at the moment is down at the same time.
Remember the two $100,000 and the $50,000 matching grants. Nearly half the money was donated in three pledges. 1340 donors gave $261,146, an average of about $195.
I noticed George Soros signed in as one of the donors.
That really explains a lot.
I have them ten bucks.
Few foresaw? I think everyone not on the left realized that once Democrat politicians got addicted to their newfound power, they would abuse it to the limit of its ability.
Well, those few that foresaw it were quickly written off as conspiracy theorists.
Right? I and many others called out that this "Vaccine Shaming" that started back in March was the first step in a quest for mandates. It was completely foreseeable. And to the credit of the Chemjeffs and Mikes, I don't honestly feel like they denied this. They just couldn't be bothered to care that deplorables would eventually be forced to do the right thing or become 2nd class citizens.
Communism has arrived to NYC. Only took 100 years or so.
Just watched a group of five year-olds walk past my house, in the drizzle, all masked. This is so stupid it's enraging.
I fucking hate seeing masked children. It's just disgusting.
this. child abuse.
ayuh
sarcasmic
August.30.2021 at 11:46 am
Flag Comment Mute User
Either the vaccine is 100% safe and effective, or there is no point in taking it at all. If you say it's a good idea then you're saying it's 100% safe and effective, and you're wrong. Just to prove it people who've been vaccinated have died of the disease. That means it's a joke. It doesn't work at all for anyone. It's all a big lie being pushed by Democrats who want to take away our freedoms. Don't you know anything?
Paging Mr. chemjeff...
Critical Race Trove From California District Tells Students How To Use Witchcraft On People Who Say ‘All Lives Matter.’
“One section titled ‘Hex’ tells the reader, ‘Hexing people is an important way to get out anger and frustration.’ It becomes increasingly deranged, suggesting that those who say ‘all lives matter’ or commit ‘microaggressions,’ should be targeted. ‘Write your own hex poem, cursing that person,’ it instructs.”
"SCIENCE!", right Jeff?
Also,
"It's just teaching them about the history of racism."
It's a religion.
Leftist religion has no place in public schools
"Write your own hex poem"
6 lines?
someone told me all lives matter
I can't even
don't they know everything started in 1619?
I can't even
I hope they die in a fire with covid
I can't even
I like it. It should be done as spoken word piece backed up with bongos.
6 syllable on six lines
Joe and hunter are cunts
rape and molest children
Set up fake art buy graft
Suck some CCP cock
Joe and hunter are cunt
Let's go Brandon Brandon
One two Fuck Joe Biden
Three four Fuck Joe Biden
Five six Fuck Joe Biden
Seven Fuck Joe Biden
Eight nine Fuck Joe Biden
And ten Fuck Joe Biden
That article is a lie, as far as I can tell. That one high school's website doesn't link to what he says it links to.
What is your alternative to these "equity resources"? Do you fundamentally object to teaching children that white people aren't the master race?
When you sacrifice goats on Samhain, Tony, do you sprinkle blood inside or around the Pentagram?
Real libertarians would and do know that unvaccinated adults shouldn't be treated as second class citizens.
Especially when it comes to bullshit so-called vaccines for the coronavirus, which are a scam and don't really do jack shit.
Yup, only two positions:
1. The vaccines are so great the government must force you to take them
2. The vaccines are worthless and a scam
Look, like most rational people I was really hoping that these things would work like the smallpox vaccine worked. Unfortunately, they didn't and they're not going to. They're so ineffective they're not worthy of being considered real vaccines. It's not my fault, it's nature and biology that are to blame, but denying obvious reality is just stupid.
"Because the vaccine isn't perfect, therefore it is worthless"
Black/white thinking at its finest
"Because the vaccine isn't perfect, therefore it is a scam"
Paranoid thinking at its finest
Still ignoring all the new CRT in schools evidence, Lying Jeffy?
I have Covid. I thank my lucky stars that I'm doubly vaccinated, otherwise, as a 74 year old woman, I'd probably be on my deathbed right about now! Instead, I'm enjoying my alone time with very mild symptoms and secured the monoclonal antibodies to further secure my recovery.
Any parent who denies their child the benefit of vaccination needs their head examined. Not only does doing so fail to protect their child, it fails to reduce the spread of the virus for the rest of society.
Polio was a terrible plague when I was in elementary school. When the Salk vaccine was introduced, every single child, in every single public elementary school, was lined up in their school's auditorium and required to stick out their arm. And no infant was released from the hospital without a small pox vaccination.
Through today's technology, we have the tremendous good fortune of expediting the scientific miracles that can prevent the spread of disease. What used to take years to develop, took less than one year. That's not cause for concern; it's cause for rejoicing!
No one should be allowed to perpetuate chronic illness by their failure to take the important, scientifically produced measures that will make everyone safe.
I'm confused how are children like a 74 year old women concerning this virus and that you know you'd be on your death bed? I'm also confused how creating possible problems for them concerning heart and other issues is not considered by you. Oh yeah the people who demanding (not allowing for a choice when either is ok) these things are really covering for their own cowardice.
I had covid it was a walk in the park for me (stuffy nose, smell) and thank my lucky stars I don't order uber eats all day every day and never move beside to change my netflix show or I might have died too..
Tell you what; go back and actually read the article, and see if you can get beyond your sanctimony and comprehend the point of it; it is NOT about the efficacy of the vaccine, or the benefit of choosing to have it. It IS about governmental overreach in ways that do more harm than good.
Like when government forces women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term and give birth against their will?
Or like when government locks up people that want to rid the postal where they used to work of unwanted coworkers. Against their will.
Donald Trump has paid for abortions. Is Donald Trump a murderer of children?
If true he's definitely an accessory.
How many weeks?
Through today's technology, we have the tremendous good fortune of expediting the scientific miracles that can prevent the spread of disease.
Apparently not. At least not in all cases and all diseases.
The Liberalism Disease will be tough to defeat. Its a mental illness with fits of sub psychotic rage.
Explain what is diseased about liberalism. Be as specific as you can.
Will let daveca provide the details, but there is this idiot here whose posts exemplify this. His screen name is Tony. Check him out.
Why not take it from the horse's mouth?
Women’s Studies as Virus: Institutional Feminism, Affect, and the Projection of Danger.
Breanne Fahs
Arizona State University
Michael Karger
Arizona State University
If you're unironically comparing your ideology in a favorable manner to a virus, you're not really in a position to complain when those who oppose you decide to start an ideological immune response.
Snohomish County, WA keeps track of vax effectiveness. It's down to 53% as of October.
https://www.snohd.org/DocumentCenter/View/8774/COVID-19_Monthly_OCT_2021
There are things that happened, and then there's that heap of bullshit.
At least start it with something like, "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this could...", so we know that you're in on the joke.
quite a LIAR there, all that self absorbed condescending attitude based on the lie that you know youd die without the vax
You dont need vacvines you need counselling
Fuck you, come back with long-term studies and safety data before I stick an unproven therapy in my kids' arms to treat a disease that has less chance of killing or seriously harming them than the neighbor's blind Chihuahua.
Karens do not have a right to control everyone else's lives. If you're scared, you do you.
The Small Pox vaccine and a mRna shot full of "Gain of Function" research ARE NOT THE SAME THING! PROVE to us all HOW u would feel "worse" if not for the shot? There is not a shread of ACTUAL science behind your child like belief. The "studies" r but nothing more then propaganda "opinion" polls by the INDUSTRY itself. They've been fudging the numbers from day one. Turn your TV off and stop wearing your diaper... And walla.... It all goes away.
The Phucko Knows
"I just have a feeling of resentment, of being coerced by a unilateral mandate by an outgoing mayor who has his own political ambitions," says Lisa, a Manhattan mom who had planned on doing Broadway shows and museum trips with her two kids (ages 5 and 7) this winter.
Now tell us who the fuck you voted for in the last election. Yes, you've brought this on yourself, "Manhattan Mom."
this pretty much sums up what is happening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzEoBrr9gRA
Trump’s Blood Oxygen Level in Covid Bout Was Dangerously Low, Former Aide Says
Obvious fake news. Why a man with Trump’s physique and BMI could never get sick. He had natural immunity— his immunity being derived from his healthy diet and rigorous exercise regimen— and would never had been sickened by a puny disease cooked up by Chinese bio weapon designers, who I might add, have developed a very poor and un-Trump like bio weapon. Why if The masterful poobah had the time to spend in a lab— as opposed to the time he was spent trying to rape his wife, his daughter and a 14 yo girl at an Epstein party— why he’d develop a magnificent virus that would only kill Democrats, the Chinese, uppity Eurotrash, and Stormy Daniels. You Democrats better be happy Donald Trump has his priorities straight— that is, trying to molest and harass his female subordinates and any female willing to get within 10 feet of him— or you wouldn’t be sitting around celebrating Hanukkah with your leader, George Soros.
Famous sarcasmic quotes:
sarcasmic
September.8.2021 at 5:33 pm
One time in the 80s I was being shuffled between my parents, and was into model rocketry at the time. Naturally I wanted to take my favorite build with me, but it would have gotten beaten to shit in regular baggage. So I took it in my carryon. Caused a bit of a scene. Had to explain that it was merely a cardboard tube with balsa fins, paint, and decals. I'm like 10 and lecturing the security guy. Too funny.
It was painted flesh color.
How did he get reelected? Once is a mistake, but twice is pathetic. He is going to pardon a bunch of people New Years Eve. Great job NYC
Good and hard, baby; good and hard.
But like an abused spouse, they will keep making excuses and blaming themselves.
Did they close the Reason offices because someone tested positive for Omicron today?
More likely their webathon reached 4 figures, and they all went to Chili's to celebrate.
it takes $400 K to run this site?
Students as second class citizens?
First of all, in a progressive paradise like NYC there are only two classes, and they (and you) are not in the elite class.
Second, the serf class is not really human, and certainly not eligible to question what the elites demand. That's almost as absurd as asking farm animals how they would like to live.
Numbnuts Biden created a religious exemption.
Thats DISCRIMINATION.
Athiests cant claim it.
FJB x 100
I can't recall, was Reason piping up about the rights of disease-spreading children when they were being required to vaccinate against polio and measles? Was there overlap between libertarianism and the anti-vaccine nutbags? I'm not saying it's more or less crazy than all your other positions. I simply can't recall.
It was probably some useless hand-waving nonsense about how a good and true society doesn't educate its children, because that requires taxing their parents, and taxing people is the worst possible thing imaginable (to Charles Koch, I'm sure it is).
Anyway, I think the technical term for creatures that spread disease among the human population is "vermin."
I can't recall, was Reason piping up about the rights of disease-spreading children when they were being required to vaccinate against polio and measles?
Unvaccinated children are less likely to spread the disease than vaccinated adults.
And what about vaccinated children?
What about them?
Hey there is tony saying that the existence of a disease- you know something that has existed for time immemorial- means people shouldn't have rights. There's that primitive monarchist rearing his head again. You do you, Tony.
I don't think you should have the right to recklessly spread a disease for which there is a vaccine. You don't have a right to kill people.
Someone, probably some psychotic Russian bitch with a couple books borne of a severe amphetamine addiction, told you that you get to live in the world and have absolutely no responsibilities to the people you live around. She was wrong, and you agree with that, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about because you're letting tribal allegiances override your basic logic.
Overt isn’t sick. And if there is a vaccine, available to all, then those folks that take it need not worry.
So why aren't infants and children through the age of four required to get COVID shots? Is there a reason this "critical, safe effective, life-saving" vaccine is being held off from them?
FYI, the vast bulk of the vaccine schedule is through the age of four, but since you'll thankfully never reproduce, I understand why you wouldn't be aware of this development in the Science! field.
"I don't think you should have the right to recklessly spread a disease for which there is a vaccine. "
What I love so much is how Tony thinks this is some sort of objective truth that everyone should just accept unless they are a deplorable. But...you know...just for the record:
There are, today, THOUSANDS of **vaccinated** people walking around spreading this virus. It is not clear how being vaccinated makes them Not-Reckless while being unvaccinated makes them suddenly reckless. Tony couldn't articulate that if he tried.
"you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about because you're letting tribal allegiances override your basic logic."
So seriously, Tony, master arbiter of all that is logical: How is a vaccinated person spreading the disease somehow not reckless? If I were unvaccinated and I stayed home when I noticed symptoms, am I reckless while a person walking around spreading a sickness is clean merely because they got the jab?
See this is the logical incoherence of Tony's religion. He likes to act all righteous because, like other religious zealots, he has substituted logic for FAITH and magic talismans. One would think that knowingly walking around infected is reckless. But because that is just hard to figure out, he has let his priestly caste deliver unto him a magic talisman: the vaccine passport. Like an indulgence, complexity no longer matters at that point. Reckless is being unvaxxed. Not reckless is having a piece of paper. It's simple logic for a simple, brainwashed totalitarian.
Tony is a type member of the new progressive left, founded on fear of others, and claiming the mandate that victimhood justifies totalitarian control. Any threat, real or imagined, serious or minor, justifies severe measures--even if they don't have much effect, and no matter the cost to freedom. This is essentially a selfish, childish view of reality.
By Tony's logic, since some people have peanut allergies, and a few could suffer serious consequences from peanut exposure, anyone who traffics in peanuts is a murderer.
Anyway, I think the technical term for creatures that spread disease among the human population is "vermin."
In the 70's and 80's they preferred to be called "Gay".
Comment of the Week!
I can't recall, was Reason piping up about the rights of disease-spreading children when they were being required to vaccinate against polio and measles?
Are infants and children through the age of four required to get COVID shots?
Reason is garbage. But dude... pretty sure they didn't exist back in the day u r referring to. Measles were a reason for the neighborhood "block" to get together for a sleep over. In hopes as many as possible would get it.... AND GET IT OVER WITH!! The polio vaccine was NOTHING like u fools claim it to be. A "vaccine" has NEVER cured anything. Today.... If your in the age group of between 45 and 65.... You have been (or know of someone) "diagnosed" with some sort of Autoimmune Disease. Which is a direct result of these generations being umongest the first to get the ridiculous Vax protocols of getting numerous shots before u turned 12-yrs old. Vaccines have ALWAYS messed with humans natural immune systems. Confusing it into thinking it's ALWAYS under attack. Auto Immune Disease IS but the body...., lying to it's self and causing an over reaction to a problem that DOSEN'T exist. Vaccines r nothing but Evils chosen weapon of war against humans. The "swan" u chose to see...., IS but a walking quaking duck.
The Phucko Knows
Matt Walsh spending the whole day ranting against Asset Forfeiture is not what I was expecting today.
Funny how everyone just forgets all the garbage policy Biden has advocated and voted for his entire career when he goes against TRUMP!
Hey Look Everyone! Cocaine Mitch is ready to roll over and show his belly to the Democrats once again:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcconnell-says-deal-reached-schumer-debt-limit
That's a good boy, Mitch.
Its the Good cop, Bad cop game.
Rs pretend to be against it but when the Secret Handshake Round is over, all the greedy Pigs belly up to the funding trough and eat their fill.
Govt money buys all kind of votes. Its how these Aging Fossils stay in Office.
So, let's talk about the concept of negligence for a moment.
Suppose, in Libertopia, Alice owns a restaurant, that at one time was clean, but is now filthy. There's dirt, rats, roaches, all over the place. It is a disgusting place. Alice didn't deliberately put the rats and roaches in her restaurant, she just didn't bother to keep it clean, and hence the state of her restaurant naturally deteriorated. And, since Alice is in Libertopia, there is no such thing as a health permit or business license, so she retains the liberty to continue operating her restaurant despite the filth. Now suppose Bob, a very hungry and very desperate customer, decides to eat some food from Alice's restaurant, and, unsurprisingly, gets sick as a result. So the question is, in Libertopia, should Bob have a legal remedy against Alice for his illness? Did Alice harm Bob?
Alice of course would argue that whatever illness Bob suffered, it was not an intentional act to try to sicken Bob; whatever it was, it was from natural processes that Alice had no direct control over. People get sick all the time, it is unfair to blame Alice for it. Besides, what about caveat emptor? Isn't it Bob's duty to evaluate the worthiness of Alice's establishment before patronizing it? Isn't it his own fault that he got sick?
Bob, on the other hand, would argue that by opening the doors of her restaurant to the public, Alice has a duty to meet some minimum standard of care in how the establishment is run. No one is expecting perfection, but there is a reasonable expectation that if one patronizes a restaurant, one won't get sick as a result. To do otherwise is a type of fraud. After all, Bob ordered a sandwich, not salmonella!
So who is right?
I would argue that Bob has the better case here. Alice was negligent in how she ran her restaurant. She has an obligation, if she serves food, to serve food that doesn't make people sick; if she opens her doors, to make sure that her establishment is minimally habitable. It doesn't mean that Alice should be imprisoned, but it does mean that Bob ought to be able to seek damages in the form of a tort against Alice.
I would furthermore argue that if we are to use this common law concept of negligence in this concept, that it is not necessary for Alice's restaurant to be absolutely spotless, only that she has made a good-faith effort to conform to her duty to make her restaurant at least minimally sanitary. If she had made those good-faith efforts, rather than let her restaurant get run down, and Bob *still* got sick from eating her food, then Alice would *not* have been guilty of negligence.
So, if you agree that Alice is negligent in this case, then let's see how this thought experiment applies to the concept of health and vaccines. Suppose, in Libertopia, instead of Alice opening her doors to a filthy restaurant, Alice instead walks outside of her house while sick with a contagious illness. Let's suppose that Alice knows she is sick and yet decides to mingle in public nonetheless. Let's suppose Bob meets Alice in public, and gets sick from the illness that Alice is carrying. I would argue, that in Libertopia, in this case, Alice is guilty of a type of negligence as well. She presented herself as a person who was healthy enough to be in public without harming others, but that was not the case; just like, in the case of the restaurant, Alice presented her restaurant as serving food that would not make people sick, but that was not the case either.
And, just like in the case with the restaurant, Alice would not be guilty of negligence in *every case* that she might make people sick due to an illness she is carrying. Only, if Alice had not met a minimum duty of care, would she be guilty of negligence. If she had done the very basic things necessary to avoid spreading the disease to the best of her ability, that would not be negligence.
So now let's suppose there was a vaccine that would reduce Alice's ability to spread the disease. If this vaccine was freely available, and Alice was otherwise medically fit to take the vaccine, but Alice refused to do so, that would be not meeting a minimum duty of care. Just like if Alice refused to clean her dirty restaurant.
There's dirt, rats, roaches, all over the place.
Is this the second time I've heard the unvaccinated compared to these things?
Well, chemtard radical deathfat will never have the chance to get a woman pregnant, so you can see why he'd compare infants and children through the age of four to vermin out of sheer resentment.
Go diet, you're clogging up the healthcare system.
"So now let's suppose there was a vaccine that would reduce Alice's ability to spread the disease."
This is where you depart controlled flight.
In your two first examples, you went out of your way to stress that these people 1) had knowledge that they were infected/infested and 2) nevertheless chose to engage in activities likely to spread that infection. But then you try to steal a base with vaccination.
Let me ask you this: I'm vaccinated and I come down with COVID symptoms, and I go out to a movie theater. Did meeting my "minimum duty of care" by getting the vaccine suddenly make my actions non-negligent? Of course not. Because the proximate reason for my aggression wasn't Vax status. It was choosing to engage in "infectious behavior" despite having reason to believe I was infected. Vaccination status had nothing to do with it.
Likewise, even if Alice had roach traps and antibacterial surfaces in her restaurant, her tort was committed the second she observed filth and rat droppings in her restaurant and still opened for business. Whether she had "vaccinated" by setting up preventative measures or not, if she had observed signs of pathogens and closed her restaurant until those signs were dealt with, she would not have been considered negligent.
So your previous two examples are not good analogies. For vaccination to work, you need to show why there is a moral obligation for me to take preventative steps on your behalf, merely because a natural pathogen might use my body *unknowingly* as a vehicle for transmission.
We have discussed this before, but the proper analogies might be:
1) Do I have a responsibility to fence off my property to prevent wolves from crossing it to access chickens on your neighboring property?
2) If a river, contaminated with giardia upstream, flows through my property before going to your property, am I somehow obligated to treat that giardia before it flows to your property?
In both cases a natural phenomenon is doing what nature does. I am not encouraging or discouraging these natural effects- and these effects would exist whether I owned the neighboring property or it was fallow. Nature is beyond the control of men.
As a libertarian, I hope you will really think about the logic of your last paragraph. Because you are suggesting that technological innovations somehow shift the burden of responsibility onto others. Let's say there is a WIDELY available anti-wolf repellent or giardia suppressant. Does the existence of this magic remedy suddenly change my responsibility to protect your property from nature?
Bob got sick... But Mike, Susan and Barry had the same sandwich and just had a good dump. Word got out about the incident and the public had chosen to go elsewhere. Forcing the "dirty" restaurant" to advertise that they had changed up there business "model" and were now so clean that folks had to come and see for themselves. Which they did. The only drawback was they had to now wear sunglasses. As it was so sparking clean. ALL WHICH WAS HANDLED without any government intervention. If the subject business didn't change.... They would soon be out of business. Also handled..., without any government intervention. So your point is as invalid as your belief that these mRna shots r a vaccine. Bad enough one that works as "advertised". R government has paid well over a BILLION dollars to Advertising Agencies, Marketing Agencies and Psychology think tanks. If this Covid nonsense is so real... Why r we spending so much money to "convince" the public that it exist? Turn off your TV and stop wearing your diaper... And down goes covid down the drain.
The Phucko Knows
Sooooooooooooo Happy I don't live in a Nazi-Hellh*le; yet.
Now; If only all these massively ignorant incoming migrat Nazi's could put their narcissistic idiocy behind them and simply ask themselves why they find the need to move away from the sinking hellh*les they created to greener pastures; they just might learn something.
Correcting their Conquer and Consume mentality...
Relax, with Democrats in charge you need not do a thing.
No need to move to a HellHole.
They will bring one to you!
Those illegal aliens have legs.
Let's Go Brandon is too nice for what Bill De Blasios deserves.
are you saying instead of vouchers, bureaucrats make the better placement choices?
So has Tony or any of the other Left Socks donated to Reason?
They use an excessive amount of bandwidth drooling on their keyboards.
C' mon Tony, put out or get out.
Spraking of puttong out, Camel Toe Harris issued a ' call to action'...
Wow...what a stunning achievement.
The parents aren’t really decision makers at this point. (Their decision time was the election.) If a restaurant decides to not serve them and little Johnny unless Johnny is vaccinated, don’t do business there until you decide to vaccinate him. Don’t whine about it and ask government to make the owner not do that.
The problem is one for the business owner. Government doesn’t like his decision to serve you and little Johnny without vaccinations and is ok with him not making payroll as long as the mayor is seen to be Doing Something (Useless, but who cares.)
so let government continue to do things in contradiction to principles of freedom and Constitutionalism....
Got it...
pathetic troll
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