Vaccine mandates

New York Shouldn't Treat the Unvaccinated as Second-Class Citizens

De Blasio should honor expectations of medical privacy, not threaten government retribution for those who make choices he dislikes.

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A decree from New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio that took effect on August 17 requires businesses to ask customers for proof of COVID-19 vaccination. The city is deploying enforcers to make sure that some 23,000 restaurants and 25,000 nightlife spots across the city of 10 million comply. De Blasio presented the "Key to NYC" pass, which will also be required for entry to gyms and concert venues, as New Yorkers' best shot at freedom.

De Blasio's edict is a deprivation of New Yorkers' civil liberties. Although de Blasio portrayed the mandate as a ticket out of cyclical lockdowns and onerous capacity restrictions, it obviously will not bestow freedom on all New Yorkers. Those who decline to be vaccinated will be excluded from vast swaths of polite society for the foreseeable future.

Today's jab enthusiasts are correct that having a significant contingent of people without COVID-19 antibodies can wreak ever greater havoc as the virus mutates. But New York already has a high vaccination rate: As of the end of August, more than 69 percent of adults in the five boroughs were fully vaccinated.

In poorer boroughs where racial and ethnic minorities are concentrated, such as the Bronx (which is about 43 percent black and 55 percent Hispanic/Latino), 62 percent of adults were fully vaccinated. De Blasio's order will disproportionately exclude members of minority groups—including people who distrust the medical establishment, lack confidence in a new vaccine, or don't have time to take off work in the event of bad side effects—from public life.

For residents 65 and older, the group that is by far most at risk of dying from COVID-19, the citywide vaccination rate is quite high. More than 79 percent of elderly New Yorkers had received at least one dose as of August. Gotham has been vaccinating roughly 130,000 additional residents per week.

It is unclear whom de Blasio's order will help. The vaccinated already are well-protected from severe illness or death, even if they contract a breakthrough infection. Eradicating the disease entirely no longer seems like an option. COVID-19 will continue to circulate in America indefinitely, which, given the amount of movement within the country and from outside it, means new variants may continue to emerge. If the idea is to give vaccinated New Yorkers peace of mind that they can socialize with minimal risk of becoming dangerously ill, they have that already thanks to the vaccine.

Meanwhile, the mandated pass is an imposition on business owners already suffering after a very long year of state-ordered closures and capacity restrictions. Do we really want to make restaurant hostesses act as bouncers? Restaurateurs who thought their clientele would respond amicably to vaccination checks already had the freedom to ask.

Perhaps the biggest riddle of all: While vaccine passports may shield the vaccinated from the unvaccinated, they won't shield the unvaccinated from each other. Banished from public places, won't vaccine skeptics continue to fraternize freely, in private homes and in underground venues that pop up to cater to those who flout Hizzoner's rules?

For those who value living in a pluralistic society that honors expectations of medical privacy and allows people to act on matters of conscience without retribution from the state, a broad mayoral dictate like this one is appalling. American civic culture is already deeply fractured; requiring proof of vaccination will mean that people of different values, classes, political persuasions, and (judging from current demographic data) skin colors will have even fewer opportunities to rub shoulders. The mandate also denies business owners and their employees the ability to make such decisions for themselves, a burden on their wallets and their freedom of association.

Whether or not de Blasio succeeds in bullying the unvaccinated into getting jabbed, his order will create a de facto category of second-class citizens in a country that long ago promised otherwise.

NEXT: Brickbat: I Can't Hear You

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  1. This is utter insanity. NYC is a modern dystopia. What bothers me about Reason writers is their faux libertarianism.

    This country is sliding into chaos. Our leaders traded away our liberty in the name of ‘security’. The fools. What kills me is these assholes are pitching this stripping away of liberties as one-offs. It is a lie.

    It’s just wearing a mask….
    It’s just a vaccination…..
    It’s just to go to work…
    It’s just a COVID passport…
    It’s just to see your child…
    It’s just a thing in the Constitution we’ll ignore…
    It’s just a temporary emergency action…

    It’s always, “just” this one thing. And then that restriction is permanent.

    1. If someone has a peaceful solution that doesn’t involve prison sentences for elected officials, I’m all ears.

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      3. There’s the Convention of States possibility to clarify the original intent of the U.S. Constitution by word but being the Nazi-Regime doesn’t even acknowledge its existence and in general even the Supreme Court Justices don’t heed it unless they absolutely have to – not sure what good that’ll do either.

        National Socialist Democratic “Democracy” has been toppling the USA for years. Seems almost all citizens on the left don’t even understand the USA at all and a good 80% on the right too. Not sure if that’s a purposeful play of ignorance or a true lack of education.

      4. There are four boxes in defense of liberty. Two of them meet your requirements.

      5. They can voluntarily hop into woodchippers or resign.

    2. Yea, it’s kind of perplexing why these metrosexual d bags from reason keep living in/writing articles about new york, like it will ever not be a crime infested, rat infested, communist infested, dirty, liberal shit hole.

      New York city embodies literally everything wrong with this country. Terrible education, culture, family structure, and poverty for blacks and colored people. Crushingly high taxes and regulations leading to Crushingly high cost of living. Fascist covid measures reinstating segregation.

      But really the true issue, as with all liberals and leftists, is the lack of self awareness and the constant need to cut off their nose to spite their face.

      Que the “our icus are overrun! Erma geeeerd”! ” stories up for new York this winter. It’ll be great to watch as their seasonal covid cases rise this winter at the same time as they force tens of thousands of medical workers and first responders out of their jobs with Vax mandates and job restrictions.

      1. You forgot the good things about NYC.

        Unearned superiority to other people. Ability to ignore how trash the people around you are. And cocktail parties.

        1. I hate NYers, but they’re better than the backwards hillbillies that make up the majority of the commenters here.

    3. I’ll say the same thing I’ve been saying for a while now: The unvaccinated are being scapegoated for the pandemic despite the fact that it’s obvious to everybody but Joe Biden and Dr. Fauxi that the vaccines aren’t working as promised. The unvacinated are being vilified as inbred hick morons and treated as nothing more than vermin, barred from holding jobs and engaging in commerce, faced with demands to show their papers, figuratively and literally being attacked and spat upon – how long until there are programs to send them to quarantine camps out in the middle of nowhere where they can quietly be disappeared?

      Yet every time I bring up the similarities between the treatment of the unvaccinated now and the treatment of the Jews in Germany circa 1935, I get laughed at or mocked or attacked from the “how dare you!” crowd for comparing this thing to the Holocaust. I’m not comparing it to the Holocaust, I’m comparing it to the slow indoctrination and propaganda program that led up to the Holocaust. It’s not like Hitler took power and immediately started rounding up Jews and slaughtering them, it took time to move step-by-step to convince the general population that Jews were bad, that they were evil, that they needed to be pushed out of polite society, that they were responsible for all the troubles in the world, that they were sub-human, that they needed to be exterminated like rats and cockroaches. Step by step, the unthinkable became thinkable, the thinkable became doable, the morally repugnant became morally acceptable, the morally acceptable became a social necessity.

      1. The unvaccinated are the ones who are killing people with the biological weapon of mass destruction that they are helping to spread. This, literally, makes them terrorists and accomplices to mass murder. It is vile and repugnant to compare them to the victims of the Holocaust when, clearly, they are much, much more like the perpetrators of the Holocaust.

        1. Does OBL have a new handle?

          1. He’s in the psych ward for evaluation.

        2. alaskan15 is either working sarcasm well or is:
          Full.
          Of.
          Shit.

        3. I hope that’s a joke, becuase otherwise it’s fucking retarded.

          If the unvaccinated are mass murderers, then so are the vaccinated. If you can call unintentionally infecting someone with a virus that has a small chance of making them seriously ill “murder”, which you can’t unless you are an idiot. They can still infect people. Perhaps at a lower rate, but there are a lot more of the vaccinated than the unvaccinated at this point, so they make up for it in volume.

          1. By this logic, gay men are much more likely than the rest of the population to be mass murders given their share of HIV infections.

            Whoops.

      2. The sort of person who trades other peoples liberty for their own safety, are not likely to have enough introspection to ask “are we being the bad guys.”

        Alaskan15 I suspect Would gladly torture an innocent to death, IF they thought it would keep themselves and their friends safe. There is no bridge too far. It looks like the goalpost keep moving, because we keep thinking there’s going to be limits how far they’re willing to go – I suspect there isn’t.

      3. The sort of person who trades other peoples liberty for their own safety, are not likely to have enough introspection to ask “are we being the bad guys.”

        I believe that Alaskan15 would gladly torture an innocent to death, IF they thought it would keep themselves and their friends safe. There is no bridge too far If it ensures their peace of mind. For many it looks like the goalpost keep moving, because we keep hoping there’s going to be limits to how far they’re willing to go – there isn’t. And they feel justified about it.

        1. Torturing an innocent to death would be immoral. How fortunate (?) I am to have encountered so very, very few innocents.

          Back when everyone was unvaccinated I thought that the most libertarian solution would be vigorous use of the Stand Your Ground laws to simply shoot the unmasked who closely approached other people; but now that most sensible Americans are fully vaxed that no longer makes sense.

          Black letter law says that spreading a biological weapon is terrorism. While privatizing law enforcement is one of my eventual goals as things stand today it will have to be government forces who confine the unvaccinated to their homes, take their children from them, and shoot them dead if they leave (which should be made easier by the ankle monitors they will all have to wear). As long as they are still breathing they might still be spreading the virus, so it will probably be necessary to shoot them until their deaths are certain, or maybe issue flamethrowers?

          I am shocked and appalled that all lovers of freedom do not support self defense against these killers.

      4. Doofus, go visit an ICU and check the status of the covid patients. You can’t be this stupid can you?

        1. How many are vaccinated?

        2. Stuff it up your ass and die, Joe.

    4. Nobody in the picture looks happy.

  2. Isn’t this article a couple months late?

    1. Nah….more like 19 months late. Should have come last March.

      1. Why they are the useful idiots of the left. They complain about their wrist hurting after the chains are applies.

  3. Technically, I think NY is treating basically everybody but politicians and actors as second class citizens. The unvaccinated are at best third class. Maybe fourth, after gang members.

    1. No better than fifth, don’t forget professional athletes.

      1. The cops, General; don’t forget the cops.

        1. Wdym, cops aren’t people ofc.

          /s

        2. I’d put cops, teachers and other ‘public servants’ in the same category as politicians. The regime needs its lackeys.

  4. “De Blasio should honor expectations of medical privacy, not threaten government retribution for those who make choices he dislikes.”

    The seems to be ignoring what it means to be progressive. Using the coercive power of government to force people to make sacrifices against their will for the common good, as progressives see it, is what being progressive is all about. It isn’t just that what de Blasio is doing is perfectly consistent with that. It’s also that there is no progressive alternative to what de Blasio is doing.

    There certainly is no libertarian progressivism. We can’t even share goals with them because the progressive means to achieve them is fundamentally incompatible with libertarianism–the understanding that people should be free to do as they please (so long as they don’t violate anyone’s rights) even if what they want to do is bad for society. De Blasio can’t do the right thing without turning his back on progressivism.

    The fact is that libertarianism is fundamentally incompatible with progressivism at its core, and it is necessary for libertarians to advocate for those who wish to harm society with their disobedience. Neither free individuals nor their rights exist for the benefit of society, and if progressives use the common good to undermine our freedom to harm society with our disobedience, then the progressive use of the common good itself is evil.

    We need to stop dignifying their goals. Other people do not exist for our benefit or for the good of society. The problem with progressivism isn’t that they could achieve their goals by more libertarian means. It’s worse than that. The problem is that they treat individuals and their rights as if they existed for the benefit of society. It doesn’t matter if progressive goals are restoring the economy through vaccination or building the autobahn, progressive advocacy for the common good itself is evil.

    1. Ding mfing ding.

      Now how is it we can see this, but the fucktards writing for reason can’t?

      Maybe they need to visit flyover country outside of a plane?

      1. Because the overeducated idiots writing for Reason are not Libertarian, nor is the publication itself, aside from occasional accidents.

        1. The idiots writing for reason are Journalism majors by and large, which means calling them ‘over educated’ is terribly inaccurate.

    2. In Progressivism, like all religions, the ultimate goal is compliance and submission. Whatever the tribe claims as fundamental beliefs are secondary to the act of belief itself.

      1. Religion encourages the sinner to have a change of heart. Progressivism requires the sinner to change their mind.

    3. Ken, are you like a monk in this religion or something, or are you the messiah?

      1. Flinging insults without provocation? Exactly how is that ‘polite discourse’, you insufferable twat?

      2. When you can’t argue with someone’s post, obfuscate!

      3. I feel your pain, loser.

      4. Joe, are you the dumbest piece of shit on earth, or just acting that way?

    4. This is a good, cogent post, with some Randian (in the best sense) overtones. As for why Reason writers don’t take this moral approach, I think they are focused on pragmatic outreach to possibly change minds oriented toward leftist orthodoxy. The problem is, we libertarians can no longer use the “Hey, we’re liberals too” approach—as in Cato Institute’s 1990s attempt to popularize “left liberal vs right liberal.” The progs are no longer recognizable as good (if asinine and exasperating) old school left liberals. They are now left wing fascists. They are not driving their father’s Great Society Oldsmobile. They are driving a T-72 tank. I do think the predominant approach of Reason could do some good with the silent majority swing voter types—-BUT 1. Do they reach that crowd very often? 2. As far as the establishment politico pundit ruling class, forget it. The only inroads to their citadel are only accessible by tank treads.

  5. Once it became clear that the vaccines aren’t sterilizing and that the vaccinated can still infect, the reason for any mandate boiled down to the same goal as “flattening the curve” purported to aim for. But when overwhelming hospital resources is just as achievable by firing medical personnel, and when hospital beds are largely taken up by those with bodies suffering from results of poor personal choices, that pretense also goes out the window.

  6. It’s not just NYC. This is happening in cities and states across the country. Our family currently faces a vaccine mandate as a condition of employment, which will effectively destroy everything we have sacrificed and worked for for the past 25 years (and to you satanic assholes who say “just get the vaxx,” a pox on your house). ALL mandates, public and private are bad and must be met with extreme push back and lawsuits.

    The people who believe in these draconian measures are a tiny minority. So are those pushing back. It’s the middling middle, who can’t be bothered with taking a stand, whom we need to convince to shut down society with their non participation until government and employers cry uncle.

    1. Come to Florida, one of the states that make up “Free America”.

      1. You’ll still get canned for not being vaxxed in Florida. It’s a federal mandate. Don’t like it? Just build your own… uh, planet I guess.

        1. But there IS not mandate.

          All that happened was, Biden issued an EO stating all employees in companies over 100 must be either tested weekly or take the magic juice. That’s IT. OSHA has not yet set up guidelines for the rollout, no one in the gov’t has made it clear who pays for the tests, there isn’t a single HR department in the nation that has received information about how to go about this.

          It’s a fake out, an evil genius move, clearly meant to scare the hell out of large companies and corporations to get out ahead of this and go ahead and set up their own mandates. Everyone is afraid of not complying with Big Daddy properly so they did Biden’s work for him. But what happens when all these companies force the vaxx on their employees and then it becomes clear that it was premature? That there isn’t, in fact, a fed mandate? Or, worse, yet, people who were forced have adverse reactions and/or die from the vaxx?

          I hope every company in the U.S. is sued for billions. The hit will be devastating, but they’ll get what they deserve for being such sniveling boot-lickers.

          1. That’s not the reality. If you work for a largish company that contracts with the government guess what, you get to be vaccinated or unemployed, your choice.

            I was vaccinated to avoid some of the travel and quarantine restrictions as much as anything else but now that it has been madated as a term of employment it irks me greatly. Pretending that it isn’t mandated for some is just not paying attention.

            1. Two things are happening here: one: mandates for federal employees/contractors; two: mandates for private companies over over 100 ppl, regardless of whether or not they work for or contract with the feds.

              Both are evil, but the latter especially pernicious, because in either case this mandate is NOT LAW. Laws are made by Congress, with provisions to enact and enforce, which is not the case with Biden’s EO. Not a single HR department in the country has received any information on the mandate, nor a date by which it must be enacted.

              Companies are simply scared shitless and so they will fire you if you don’t comply. But, again, not a law.

              1. To my knowledge, Joke Biden hasn’t even formally signed an EO yet. This is all still media posturing, with as much legal force as a Trump tweet.

                1. Yes. Except companies are “getting out ahead of this” and now mandating the virus to avoid the federal rigamarole.

                  Very bad. Will lead to a lot of people who don’t need the vaccine coerced into taking what is amounting to, at best, a mildly effective treatment (imagine if our employers mandated that everyone with muscle pain take Ibuprofen?), and lawsuits against hundreds of businesses once the coerced realize the EO was never going to be law.

                  If I were a lawyer, I’d be gearing up to entice people into class action lawsuits in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1

            2. Yep! And in Hollywood you have to suck some dicks or be unemployed, your choice.

          2. Correct, nothing beyond a press release has been issued for the 100 person minimum “edict”.

          3. So, kinda like federal “advice” about that free speech thing?

          4. Bingo. It’s all smoke and mirrors and employers forcing an emergency use vaccine may find themselves facing some expensive litigation.

            1. Except you can get a fully approved vaccine. Pfizer-BioNTech. Moderna is just around the corner for full approval. Should be in about a month.

              I have posted the statement from the FDA before so won’t bother again.

              1. Pfizer is not fully approved. It is still only approved for Emergency Use Only.

              2. The Pfizer jab is not approved, it just had its eua extended. Comirnaty, made by Pfizer and biontech, is approved but it will not be available until the end of next year. And based on all the info they provided to the FDA, it is a different product than the currently available jab.

      2. “Come to Florida”…. REALLY? GEE, THANKS! I’m writing from Sunnyvale, California (in the heart of Shiticon dystopia, and on behalf of countless hordes of us, we thought you’d NEVER ask! Hold on—-HEY, COMRADES, GET PACKED! W’E’RE EMIGRATiNG TO FLORiDA AND WE’RE BRINGING OUR VOTING HABITS WITH US! HIORAY!!!

    2. So today you’ll just loose your job and your kids will get kicked out of school for not getting the fucking jab. How long before it’s an actual crime not to get the boosters as well? Half a year, a month?

      1. Employers can make any rules they wish and fire someone if they do not comply. You are also free to leave. Do you think non vaxxers should be some legally protected class like race discrimination? A lot of libertarians are not even too keen on that.

        Schools are a more difficult matter. Students are not employees. What they are doing in Israel which does not have a mask requirement is relying heavily on testing for unvaccinated children. That includes home testing which they are distributing. You are going to get false positives and negatives but it seems better than the alternatives.

        1. How on earth can you justify a business requiring that you subject yourself to a medical procedure—an unproven, as yet only available under Emergency Use, and increasingly ineffective to boot—against your will? Do you want to see women subjected to birth control against their will because a business doesn’t want to pay for their pregnancy and leave? How about obese people required to lose weight? Smokers and drinkers to give up cigarettes and booze? Where does it end?

          And it’s not so easy for people to just pick up and choose another job. Many of these people being subject to mandates have spent their careers building to their current position and salaries. And if there are no longer any businesses that will hire you unvaxxed, there go the choices.

          What needs to happen is that ALL MANDATES end immediately. And any employer forcing them as a condition of continued employment needs to be sued from now until the end of time.

        2. Even at this late date, we’re still better off with children catching the virus if they’re not allowed to be vaccinated (or maybe even if they are). They then become a big population pool with natural immunity, which is going to be deeper and more lasting than vaccine immunity, so it’ll be harder for adults to catch the virus from them.

          1. We should never have closed any schools. And definitely shouldn’t have restricted anything in Summer 2020. If a good proportion of kids got some level of immunity in spring and summer 2020, we’d be a lot better off now.

        3. Yep! If you don’t wanna sleep with the boss, find another job!

    3. I don’t see it. Where we live you see the occasional mask but that is it. We spent the weekend in a city in another state. Stayed downtown in the busy restaurant and bar district. You would hardly know. The only thing I noticed was they were all short staffed.

      My job now has a vaccine requirement. No problem for me. A lot of our contracts are requiring it so no questions about it.

      What they are doing in New York is just stupid and wrong. There is no need for the government to be involved at this point. They bought us the vaccines and you can get them everywhere. That’s it.

    4. A SF Warrior player was coerced into shots; the city government would not let him play home games unless he was vaxxed.
      Sorry to say, he looked at the dollars and caved.
      Hope he lives in the city and knows who to vote for.

  7. Liz, what part of fascism do you not understand?
    Logic, freedom, and the word “individual” are not concepts democrats accept any longer.

  8. Disaffected, lethally reckless, belligerently ignorant, antisocial, right-wing faux libertarians are among my favorite culture war casualties.

    1. We must all bend to the whims of our masters.

    2. Congrats on another post without mentioning your mouth fetish!

  9. NYC should just suspend all civil rights indefinitely due to the permanent deadly pandemic.

  10. De Blasio presented the “Key to NYC” pass, which will also be required for entry to gyms and concert venues, as New Yorkers’ best shot at freedom.

    Unfortunately, it’s getting closer to looking like the ‘best shot at freedom’ may involve snipers on rooftops.

  11. Liz, what are the odds of a virus mutating to be vaccine resistant in an unvaccinated host vs. in vaccinated hosts?

    Somewhere around monkeys composing Shakespeare vs. a college lit class with Cliff Notes.

    We know the vaccinated can catch and transmit. WHO has been begging people to slow boosters before it drives mutations.

    Now carry on gaslighting. Political science!

    1. In theory at least chances are lower in a vaccinated person because of lower viral loads and course of the disease. More virus more mutations, We know that vaccinated tend to be less sick and have a lower chance of transmission. I posted a study about that here recently.

      1. Does this same logic apply to use of antibiotics?

        1. Yes actually. If you have bacterial pneumonia and are untreated your chance of transmission is higher. Same for HIV.

          What you are referring to is selection pressure, not mutation. Mutations occur randomly. More of a given population results in more mutations. Selection pressure in evolution occurs after a mutation occurs. If it confers a survival advantage the mutant strain will come to dominate.

          This is what happened with delta which originated in India with a very low vaccination rate.

          We give antibiotics when they are indicated. If resistant strains emerge we come up with new antibiotics. Don’t forget we are part of evolution as well. We adapt and come up with strategies against threats. We also have vaccines for pneumococcal pneumonia and other bacterial diseases.

      2. Firstly, viral load in vaccinated and unvaccinated is pretty much the same, per multiple studies over several variants.

        Second, let me rephrase: is a virus more likely to mutate resistance to a treatment when it encounters it, or randomly without contact or stimulus?

        1. It is basic cell biology and evolution. I can’t explain it any other way.

          Also a vaccine is not a treatment. It is gone after a few days. Your own body fights the infection. An antibiotic has to be circulating around in you to do anything. They are entirely different.

          It really doesn’t matter. Why would an anti vaxxer care about vaccine resistance?

          1. So a zebra develops a mutation that makes it faster. They are able to pass it on to their offspring and eventually you have a herd of faster zebras. They become the dominant strain of zebras. It didn’t happen in response to the lions.

          2. So you agree.

            I have been vaccinated against major illnesses. These are actual vaccines, that have undergone rigorous testing. They also work.

          3. Please stop calling people against these mandates anti-vaxxers. We’re not anti-vaxx. We’re anti force.

        2. A pathogen or a zebra do not develop mutations in “response” to anything. I’m sure we all know how natural selection works.

          1. No, I’m really not so sure we do.

            Vaccines and other treatments stimulate evolution in pathogens by selecting for resistant survivors or via plasmid inheritance from the slow to die. This is why, again, the WHO has been screaming about boosters.
            Also check out Antibody Dependent Enhancement while you’re there. NIH has volumes of fascinating papers.

            1. A vaccine is not a treatment. We treat disease when we have treatments. We try and prevent it when we can. These are the best tools we have now. I will get a flu shot next chance I get. It is far less effective most years.

              I don’t understand the logic behind how not using a vaccine against a highly contagious serious disease, even if 80% effective or whatever makes the world a healthier place.

              So far as antibodies you get those vaccine or not. All of those people who recovered have high levels after the illness. I’m not sure how plasmids fit in here but whatever. ADE has not been shown in these vaccines. Those where it occurred like RSV were discontinued. It is when a vaccine can make you worse by allowing antibody mediated increased admission of the virus into the cell. It has nothing to do with selection.

              If that were happening with these after vaccination we would see vaccinated people getting sicker. We are seeing the opposite effect.

              Of the variants so far none are worse in terms of degree of illness. The ones around like Delta or in Brazil arose in non vaccinated areas and are more likely to transmit.

              The WHO is desperately trying to get the vaccine to where it is needed like Africa. They are hardly opposed to it. They have been screaming all along about the disparity with rich nations and now we want boosters. They do have a point.

              Either way if that is what you think is going on it seems like a reason to join the vaccine club, not the other way around but your choice.

              1. You have seriousl lack of fundamental knowledge here that I cannot address over a phone keyboard, as well as incredibly selective reading.

  12. Vaccine Mediated Evolution

  13. Fuck your feelings. That is all.

    1. So… Feelings allow for repression of dissenting views and wholesale revision of legal process, but fuck ’em when it comes time to enforce sweeping mandates using untested injections?

      Strudel…

    2. Fuck shitlord with a rusty garden rake. That is all.

  14. “New York Shouldn’t Treat the Unvaccinated as Second-Class Citizens”

    Then how about treating them as sub-human and ineligible for citizenship and legal standing? Asking for my friend Bill.

  15. “Those who decline to be vaccinated will be excluded from vast swaths of polite society for the foreseeable future.”

    Considering these assholes are not exactly polite society (ie. fuck you, I won’t do a damn thing for society) who the fuck cares? Fuck em.

    1. ^This is the type of guy who turned in Jews to the Germans.

      1. And when raspberry’s and his/her ilk’s fealty to the regime is no longer deemed sufficient and they are facing the consequences, we will no longer consider them our countrymen. Fuck ’em.

    2. Can you tell me exactly which, and for what reason, part of my body, mind, and spirit you are entitled to?

      1. Duh. Anything that causes him worry or fear justifies his control.

        1. Our world is being run by sniveling neurotics for sure.

    3. Fuck off, slaver.

  16. I wrote this essay.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/COVIDrights/comments/pwyzu6/romer_v_evans_and_vaccine_passports/

    While a person who broke anti-sodomy laws could be temporarily excluded from transactions and endeavors that constitute ordinary civic life in a free society, that exclusion could only happen via the criminal justice process, on which there are heavy constitutional constraints against the state.

    Similarly, in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, by criminalizing failure to get vaccinated, a person convicted could be temporarily excluded from transactions and endeavors that constitute ordinary civic life in a free society, that exclusion, again, could only happen via the criminal justice process, on which there are heavy constitutional constraints against the state. The defendant in Jacobson was still free to engage in such transactions, as were persons convicted of anti-sodomy laws not subject to a sentence of confinement.

    Thus, even during the time when a State could punish sodomy, it could not exclude homosexuals from bars or restaurants. The same analogy applies to those who refuse the COVID-19 vaccine.

    It is indeed too narrow and too broad. It is too narrow because other vaccines which protect against deadlier diseases such as polio or measles or diphtheria or hepatitis are not required. It is too broad because it excludes people who refused one particular vaccine from a great number of transactions that constitute ordinary civic life in a free society.

    1. Is sodomy airborne now?

    2. Actually those vaccines are required for school in childhood and proof of them or vaccination for certain professions such as medicine or the military.

      I am not aware of criminalization of non vaxxing. It is becoming required for certain business and fields. New York is the only place I know of with the card entry thing and I don’t agree with it.

      It is not beside the point. Sodomy only affects the participants. The virus spreads to people around you.

  17. Today’s jab enthusiasts are correct that having a significant contingent of people without COVID-19 antibodies can wreak ever greater havoc as the virus mutates.

    Sorry, wrong. What drives selection of less-responsive virus are vaccines. The availability of mutants to select from in the population is never limiting. The number of mutants in just a few infected cells would be enough to provide a library of strains. So the truth is the opposite of what Liz Wolfe wrote.

    1. Yes. Profound ignorance of basic shit here. This propoganda is setting science, and public trust in it, back so goddamned far.

    2. True but very few of them make a difference. There are really only a couple out there who do.

      If we had a pill you could take to cut the disease in course and severity by half would we be seeing all of this fuss? Looks like we will soon. Pfizer is in the process now.

      Nah there is something about this in peoples minds. Covid has made all of us a little crazy.

  18. Yes, they should.

    1. I feel your pain, loser.

    2. Here is Joe Friday monkeysplaining freedom.

      https://reason.com/2021/10/08/way-too-many-people-want-an-all-powerful-president/#comment-9147051

      The man is a treasure trove of non-sequiturs and mistaken history.

      1. More succinct:
        “stupidity”

    3. Joe should get fucked with a running chainsaw.

  19. People who support vaccine mandates are pieces of shit. There is nothing redeeming about then.

  20. NYC, being the center of the universe, is the only place this is happening.

    1. There are a number if cities now actually.

  21. Right wing idiot and anti-vaxxer Texas gubernatorial candidate Allen West checked into the hospital for Covid over the weekend, not that any of you let reality get in the way of your fanatical beliefs.

    1. Chances of being hospitalized with COVID: 1-5%. That number is considered a vast overcount.

      1. If you stratify by age you get more meaningful data. Also even if you don’t get hospitalized it sucks. They only hospitalize with certain criteria like hypoxia and shortness of breath.

        So that number would be higher for me and I am an active person with a job, life, and family. The rest of y’all can do whatever you want.

        1. Stratifying the dangers of covid by age gets you unpersoned on social media.

          1. What is this facebooks social media I heard about? Kids today.

      2. And why would anyone take those chances Diane – the ICUs are full of them – when they can get a free vaccine with virtually zero deaths or complications? I know a couple of hundred million doses is still not enough for you, but the if you want to play percentages, they are not with Covid.

        1. None of your business why anyone makes the personal medical decisions they do.
          The whole point is that people get to make their own decisions on whatever basis they choose.

    2. Fucking ignoramus Joe proves how picking cherries proves your stupidity.

    3. So in a week he’ll be fine AND immune?

      1. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t Elvis. He may be dead and a recent study found that as many as 1/3 of those who have Covid do not develop anti-bodies and of those who do, they may not be long lasting. Researchers have also found that those who have had the virus still increase their immunity with a vaccine.

        https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article

        1. I would recommend you read your study:

          We studied 72 persons, all of whom had a previous positive RT-PCR test but were symptom-free for >3 weeks before blood was collected for testing (Table). Only 2 persons (3%) reported no symptoms, whereas 13 (18%) persons reported mild disease, 48 (67%) reported moderate disease, and 9 (12%) reported severe disease (Appendix Table 1).

          This is an incredibly small study.

  22. The next logical step is to just put everyone into cryo sleep.

    Problems with public health finally solved!

  23. It’s sort of hilarious because the big blue cities are determined to choke themselves do death while the rest of the country ignores all the restrictions AND the issues in the big blue cities.

    You guys got what you wanted, now you get to live with it.

  24. <blockquote.Perhaps the biggest riddle of all: While vaccine passports may shield the vaccinated from the unvaccinated…If the vaccinated are so well protected, why do they need to be shielded from the unvaccinated??

    1. See, so you guys don’t pack our ICUs and wear out our docs. I even know some unvaccinated folks that I like, though my resect for them has tanked.

      1. If you’re so worried about people dieing and keeping burden off doctors… why are you not as enthusiastic about monoclonal antibody treatments, which are highly effective, or any other promising, cheap, treatment with thousands of patients in clinical trials showing very positive data, as you are vaccines?

      2. Hopefully they die quickly, so they don’t use up medical resources. Right?

  25. The unvaccinated are worse than second class citizens. They endanger their lives, the lives of their family members, and the lives of people around them. I’d call them criminals.

    1. Only infected people present the problem. Not unvaccinated.

      It’s almost like those who do not have the virus are being treated as if they do. Guilty when actual guilt is irrelevant.

      I think getting vaxxed during a pandemic is a smart thing to do. But accepting that people who are not doing what you want is some how guilt of harm without evidence that the particular person has harmed is extremely bad for a society.

      I’m seeing a trend where if you disagree, you become an enemy.
      Something every totalitarian regime has in common.

  26. The author is just another anti-vaxer whining about his freedumb. Refusing to get vaccinated is not a benign expression of your freedom, it’s a choice that endangers yourself, your family, and others who cannot get vaccinated for various medical reasons. It’s a selfish choice…expressing that your really don’t care if the elderly person who sits next to you on the subway gets a breakthrough case even though he or she is vaccinated, and dies.

  27. Eradicating the virus should never have been considered to be a viable possibility.

    “Eradicating” smallpox took centuries to accomplish, with universal vaccination being almost globally done for the last several decades. Since coronavirus variants can also be carried in animals, eradication of this one would have required multiple decades of vaccinating the world’s population of multiple species (including wild animals) across multiple large continents. Good luck trapping and injecting the entire north american deer population (in addition to getting 99%+ rates among the human population for multiple generations).

  28. >>Today’s jab enthusiasts are correct that having a significant contingent of people without COVID-19 antibodies can wreak ever greater havoc as the virus mutates.

    Citation? Data source for assumption? There was a large study funded by Pfizer and performed by scientists at Columbia University earlier this year which modeled immunity by state – both natural and vaccine-generated immunity. They were trying to figure where to send the first batches of vaccines to have the most effect on stopping the Covid pandemic.

    The study found that, on a population basis, it would be practically useless to send vaccine supplies to South Dakota, because the model estimated that 60% of the population had acquired immunity through natural exposure. In Vermont, the model said only 10% had likely acquired immunity. (Unfortunately I just tried and I could not dig up a link to this study.)

    Boston and New York had worse outbreaks than South Dakota, and likely had even higher levels of natural immunity when vaccination began. In fact, a study of the recent Provincetown outbreak earlier this year showed that, on a population basis, vaccination made no difference in contracting the illness OR in hospitalization. Many, if not most, of the people who choose not to take these vaccines are doing so because they’ve already had COVID.

  29. As someone who’s principled and surely not just a partisan hack, Ms. Wolfe, I look forward you to your similar screed about other areas where the government steps in to limit your personal choices regarding how much risk you put others at in public places, such as DUI laws.

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