Cleveland Votes for More Police Oversight, While Minneapolis Rejects Abolishing, Replacing Cops
The obvious lesson is that, yes, people want reform and better police conduct, not necessarily broad, vague plans to replace them.

Minneapolis voters Tuesday rejected the activists who had been trying to get rid of the city's police department and replace it with a new department intended to provide a public health–oriented approach to public safety.
By a vote of 44 to 56 percent, Minneapolis voters rejected Question 2, which would have amended the city's charter to abolish the city's police department. At the same time, it would have created the Department of Public Safety, a city entity whose primary responsibility would have been "integrating its public safety functions into a comprehensive public approach to safety, including licensed peace officers if necessary to fulfill the responsibilities of the department."
After the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police in May 2020, a massive nationwide push to reform policing also gave more attention and visibility to activists with a more radical idea—abolishing the police and replacing them with an approach that focuses on the public health issues that underlie a lot of criminal activities, like mental health issues, drug addiction, and extreme poverty.
Choosing "abolish the police" as a slogan was perhaps not a winning marketing plan—most people want police to actually fight crimes and arrest criminals who threaten harm even if people don't necessarily agree on what constitutes criminal behavior. In the run-up to the election, the Associated Press talked to a black resident of Minneapolis who made it pretty clear that there was some sort of middle ground between being beaten up by cops for no reason and abolishing policing altogether and leaving the community with no decent response to violent behavior.
"Everybody says we want the police to be held accountable and we want fair policing. No one has said we need to get rid of the police," Marques Armstrong told the Associated Press. "There needs to be a huge overhaul from the ground up, but we need some form of community safety because over here shots are ringing out day and night." Several local Democrats, including Mayor Jacob Frey and Gov. Tim Walz, opposed the initiative.
And yet, Question 2 managed to get 44 percent of the vote, which suggests that a healthy chunk of people are not fine with the status quo. As Armstrong noted, Minneapolis citizens do want reforms and accountability for their police—not necessarily some vague promises of reforming what police do. It wasn't even clear what the outcome of Question 2 might be: The description of the Department of Public Safety flat out stated this new agency could hire a whole bunch of police officers. So while the proposal appeared radical, it also may well have ended right back at the status quo without any additional changes or restrictions on how police actually treat citizens. There was nothing in Question 2 that actually made police more accountable for bad conduct or provided additional citizen tools for oversight.
Compare the Minneapolis vote to the different outcome in Cleveland Tuesday night. In that city, voters overwhelmingly supported Issue 24, a ballot proposal that rewrites the city's charter in order to give citizens more oversight of the police department and more authority to respond to officer misconduct. It grants the city's Civilian Police Review Board the power to initiate complaints against police officers and takes the power to remove members of the board away from the police department and gives it to the mayor. Issue 24 also establishes as 13-member Community Police Commission that will have the power to determine whether the police chief or the Civilian Police Review Board has appropriately disciplined officers found to have engaged in misconduct and to set policies for training and hiring police officers.
That's actually a big deal, and Issue 24 passed overwhelmingly, getting nearly 60 percent of the vote. The Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association union opposed the ballot initiative and is promising to fight it in court. Jeff Folmer, president of the union, said the prospect of police actually being held accountable by the citizens for their behavior "will be the downfall of Cleveland."
Cleveland has a troubled police department, but more troubling is how cops there get away with all sorts of bad behavior. In 2012, Cleveland police surrounded and shot 137 bullets into a car killing two people, all because police thought they heard a gun fire. No gun was found. One officer who leapt onto the hood of the car and shot into it 15 times was ultimately cleared by a judge because they couldn't prove that any of his bullets actually hit the victims.
Tamir Rice was just 12 years old when he was shot and killed by former Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann, responding to a report of a man in a park with a pistol. Rice was carrying a replica toy gun, but Loehmann opened fire on the teen immediately upon arriving at the scene and never gave Rice a chance to explain or even surrender. Loehmann was fired, not for his behavior, but for lying on his application and concealing the fact had been deemed unfit for duty at another police department. A grand jury in Cuyahoga County declined to indict him. The police union fought Loehmann's termination and tried to get him reinstated.
More recently, two Cleveland plainclothes cops who assaulted a man on his own porch and arrested them allegedly without identifying themselves first out of some suspicion that he might have been up to no good were granted qualified immunity by a judge preventing the man from attempting to hold them financially liable for violating his rights.
And so we shouldn't be surprised at how different the vote in Cleveland turned out when compared to Minneapolis. In Cleveland, voters were given a specific, detailed plan (the initiative is 16 pages long) showing how the citizens would have more power to respond and guide police conduct. In Minneapolis, voters were give two whole paragraphs vaguely describing an entire new police department.
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You went the whole article without mentioning the horrible increase in violent crime that Minneapolis has seen in the past year.
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/22/1019413198/minneapolis-policing-is-caught-between-the-defund-movement-and-violent-crimes-ri
When NPR is more informed and less biased than you it's time for self-reflection
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So has Cleveland. It's almost as though crime rates are a separate matter from police reform!
"crime rates are a separate matter from police reform"
That will be a hard sell to voters. They want cops to go after actual criminals - they don't want the cops themselves to be criminals and will probably support punishment of bent cops - but if broad-based attacks on police *as such* are followed by crime increases, they might consider that certain "reformers" are radicals with a harmful agenda.
According to the Rolling Stones, it was Satan who said every cop is a criminal.
And all the sinners saints.
^ See the picture that accompanies this article.
That will be a hard sell to voters
Exactly and yet he claims to speak for voters in this article. Maybe those issues are separate for him, but assuming that voters felt the same way is just bad journalism.
I don't know Cleveland, but I know Minneapolis and the difference between the city now vs pre-George Floyd is staggering. Between 2019 and 2020 murder rate, property thefts and arson rose over 50%. Car thefts rose 20%. People notice that shit. The idea that they voted for police only because the plan for lack of police was too vague is ridiculous.
Cleveland went from 123 homicides in 2019 to 177 in 2020, but "overall crime" supposedly declined.
Caused by Trump, global warming and anti-vaxxers.
I don't see that as significantly contradicting what was said in the article. It might have played a factor in reducing support for the "defund" movement, but the contrast between the two proposals seems like quite a valid point as well.
The violent crime is the reason Minneapolis voted against the plan, not the bullshit about it being too vague. He's being obtuse.
> SAMUELS: I keep saying, we gave the world something to look at in Minneapolis.
I mean... people look at car wrecks, too.
I support the Defund The Police movement on the simple basis that "Get your shit together or we'll fire your ass" works better as an incentive than "Get your shit together or we'll be forced to demand that you get your shit together again". For all the complaints about cops and all the proposed "reforms" of policing, not a damn thing has changed. Cops, like all humble public servants, arguably cost a shitload more than they're worth. How much would it cost to supply every member of the public with a gun and give them free rein to shoot criminals a la Death Wish and what would that do to the crime rate after a few months?
"Get your shit together or we'll fire your ass" only works if the threat is credible. "Defund the police" was never a credible threat. As such, it was actually easier for the bad apples to blow off than more measured calls for reform.
That said, there is some merit to your extreme-libertarian view of solving crime. The downside is that it fails to work for any crime requiring competent investigation. 'Shooting the guy who is actively trying to mug you right now' is a lot easier to defend than 'I want to shoot the guy who assaulted my daughter who I'm really sure did it but I didn't actually see it'.
"Get your shit together or we'll fire you" doesn't seem to work for about 20% of the public, when the shit they are to get together is getting jabbed for the Chinaflu.
Minneapolis is just a bunch of chauvinists.
Daaaaaaaaayum.
If you vastly understaff your police department relative to the number of killers in the city, the police will inevitably develop an under-siege, shoot-first-shoot-lots culture.
London in 2019 had 218 police officers per homicide.
Berlin in 2017 had 187 police officers per homicide.
Minneapolis in 2019 had 18 police officers per homicide.
Cleveland in 2019 had 13 police officers per homicide.
Minneapolis is long (multiple decades) time DEMOCRAT run, DEMOCRAT only city council and elected officials. Well there is one Green party council member.
Minneapolis has One-Party Rule for most of the resident's life times. The many problems that exist are due to DEMOCRAT solutions and DEMOCRAT officials.
I’ve never understood that. The democrats that have a stranglehold on these democrat cities need democrats running the federal government to force police reform on said like minded democrats.
As opposed to just implementing all this ‘police reform’ themselves. WTF is stopping them from doing it themselves?
The 900-lb elephant in the room -- and what exposes the leftist agenda -- is the lack of any ballot amendment or discussion in Minneapolis about police reform. Immediately after Floyd's death, the city council and leftist community jumped on the defund and abolish bandwagons, claiming that reforms didn't work. So they issued this "plan" without an impact statement, or without taking the pulse of the city, even though the black community in North Mpls made clear objections to the plan from day one. That fact alone should expose the leftist agenda, since the excuse for defunding and abolishing the police was supposedly "racial justice." But an even more significant change is ballot measure #1, which puts more executive power in the hands of the mayor. This measure passed because people saw how irrespobsible the city council was in condemning all police for the actions of a few, and so the people wanted to curb its power. That move alone may bring about the changes in policing that people want.
I think it's more appropriate to say, " the death of George Floyd at his own hands."
Career criminal, drug addict, porn,.....but his defenders will come up with all manner of nonsense in his defense.
When people choose to make bad personal decisions that often effects the lives of others , no one should be too surprised of the negative outcomes.
George Floyd made many bad decisions. He chose poorly.