The PATRIOT Act's Poisoned Tree
Two decades after 9/11, the government's appetite for spying has only grown.

American history neither began nor ended on 9/11. That day's vile events shoved the nation down a darker path than it might otherwise have trod, but just as the attack inflicted on America was the poisoned fruit of past policy crimes and mistakes, the resultant flowering of government surveillance and information cap-ture grew from roots set far deeper than the rubble from the Twin Towers.
Within a month of the assault, a bill called the Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act, giving the federal government vast new snooping powers, appeared on the floors of the House and the Senate. The USA PATRIOT Act, soon to lose the USA in standard usage, was signed into law by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2001. Voting against it were 66 House members and just one senator: Russ Feingold (D–Wisc.).
Two decades down the line, after a confusing array of follow-on intelligence-gathering laws (including the 2015 USA FREEDOM Act, which supplanted various PATRIOT Act provisions), it is not obvious that America has indeed been "strengthened." The law has been used overwhelmingly to prosecute the war on drugs, not the war on terror, during a time when the country began moving away from prohibitionism. The new tools are error-prone, have not been shown to have prevented terrorism on U.S. soil, and have nonetheless been used as a pretext for successive administrations to construct vast, constitutionally dubious secret surveillance networks.
But efficacy wasn't a big part of the original debate; the preventive utility of an information-gathering dragnet was widely—and wrongly—assumed. Back then, supporters and opponents were more apt to argue over the impact on civil liberties.
A common argument defense lawyers make when trying to get courts to dismiss evidence obtained illegally against their client is that it was the "fruit of the poisoned tree." The PATRIOT Act itself was the fruit of the tree of law enforcement's relentless desire to be free of the inconveniences of the Fourth Amendment and its guiding principles of privacy and due process.
The Wish List
Critics of the law warned that it heralded the "death of privacy." Proponents retorted that, in fact, the law wasn't some huge departure for American surveillance. On that narrow point at least, the hawks weren't wrong.
For example, the controversial "national security letters"—warrantless demands for data about people from third parties such as phone companies, without notifying the target of the investigation—had already been in use, authorized by the 1978 Right to Financial Privacy Act (RFPA) and the 1986 Electronics Communication Privacy Act (ECPA). The shadowy Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), which many Americans discovered was the provider of judicial fig leaves for PATRIOT fishing expeditions, had been operational since the passage of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), an intended bulwark against previous surveillance abuses.
As former G-man Michael J. Woods wrote in a 2005 Journal of National Security Law & Policy article, the FBI before 9/11"had five separate legal authorities that addressed the need to compel production of transactional information in counterintelligence investigations: three types of national security letters (under RFPA, ECPA, and FCRA [Fair Credit Reporting Act]), the FISA pen register/trap and trace authority"—i.e., grabbing the numbers for incoming and outgoing calls from a phone or browser history from a computer—"and the FISA business records authority. All of these authorities specified the types of records that could be obtained, and all the records specified were, according to the reasoning of the Supreme Court…outside the protection of the Fourth Amendment." In the controversial 1976 Miller case, the Court decided that if you willingly gave up information to a third party, such as a credit reporting agency, ISP, or telco, you no longer had a privacy right under the Fourth Amendment regarding that information.
The PATRIOT Act made it somewhat easier to obtain approval for surveillance meant to focus on a foreign national, changing the standard for tracking an individual from foreign intelligence being the "primary purpose" of an investigation to just a "significant purpose." (U.S. citizens who communicated with said foreigners were also fair game for scrutiny, particularly if any aspect of that communication took place outside of the country.)
The FISA court, which had always been deferential to intelligence agencies, became even more of a rubber stamp, issuing approvals the public was never allowed to read. Even so, in the gung-ho spirit of the times, Bush administration Department of Justice official David Addington crowed that they were just "one bomb away from getting rid of that obnoxious court." Even the flimsy paper barrier between the executive branch and its maximum security desires was considered too much of an irritant.
Though 9/11 provided the impetus and urgency, none of the PATRIOT Act powers were dreamed up solely in response to that terrible day. Rather, the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon provided an expedient excuse to fulfill law enforcement's longstanding wish list. And one of the principal keepers of that list now resides in the White House.
As a senator, Joe Biden initially bragged about the PATRIOT Act like a proud papa, clucking that then–Attorney General John Ashcroft had essentially "sent up…my bill"—a grab bag of expanded police authority that Biden had been pushing since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.
That grafting of domestic law enforcement concerns onto the response to a foreign-originating attack should give us pause, especially in 2021. "Domestic terror" was a category specifically enumerated in the PATRIOT Act, and the one most likely to be used by a president intimately familiar with those law enforcement tools. At a time when "Islamic terror" has faded as an existential threat, PATRIOT's most immediate relevance in this administration might just be its potential weaponization against the president's political opponents.
PATRIOT's overall spirit and intent was to widen the circumstances, places, and targets for which the government didn't need to worry about the niceties of the Fourth Amendment and its attendant legal tradition and practice about warrants, notice, meaningful judicial oversight, and particularity. PATRIOT struck critics as unconstitutionally invasive of citizens' privacy, allegedly in the name of fighting foreign terror, and over time didn't seem to deliver any goods, especially regarding the latter point, that justified the unconstitutionality.
What PATRIOT Allowed
The PATRIOT Act expanded the potential criminal exposure of everyone living in the United States, whether or not we were involved in terrorist plots. Noncitizen residents could now be faced with indefinite detention without conviction. U.S. citizens who took more than $10,000 out of the country were no longer guilty of a paperwork crime; they were subject under Section 371 to having their money seized by the government (this among other tightening of the informational reins on banks in the name of stopping terror financing via "money laundering").
Parts of PATRIOT were controversial enough that they were passed with built-in "sunsets" requiring them to be reapproved by Congress every five years. Since those sections generated political conflict, they tended to be the most discussed aspects of the sprawling law.
The most controversial, both at the time and as a result of later revelations about how it was used, was Section 215, which expanded the definition of the "business records" that government snoops could snatch under FISA authority. Before, the capturable records had to be provided by common carriers: providers of public accommodation, storage, or vehicle rental operations. Now they could mean "any tangible thing" that the feds could convince the FISA court was relevant to a terror investigation.
And convincing the FISA court turned out to be about as easy as saying, "Because we say so." As the FBI's Woods spelled out, "the judge has no meaningful discretion in considering a §215 application. While the plain language of §215 directs the judge to issue the business records order if the judge finds 'that the application meets the requirements' of the section, the only 'requirement'…is that the application specify that 'the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation.'"
There was also the "roving wiretap" authority under Section 206, allowing surveillance to follow a target without any additional permission when a target changed communication methods. (Privacy rights groups felt this was in conflict with the Fourth Amendment requirement that a legal warrant "particularly describ[e] the place to be searched.")
The "lone wolf" provision allows for tracking individuals suspected of terrorist intentions who are not known to be associated with any known foreign organization or government. It was added in 2004, but the government claims it has never been used.
All of these controversial sections were reauthorized in 2006 and again in 2011, under both Bush and President Barack Obama. Bush additionally made sure to let us know in his signing statement that his administration would only report what it felt like reporting to the public about PATRIOT use, saying that he "shall construe" requirements "that call for furnishing information to entities outside the executive branch…in a manner consistent with the President's constitutional authority…to withhold information the disclosure of which could impair foreign relations, national security, the deliberative processes of the Executive, or the performance of the Executive's constitutional duties." And it was his lawyers' considered opinion that once the Authorization for Use of Military Force that launched the war on terror was declared that the president could do whatever he wanted to defend this nation, and that any attempt to stop him was the true blot on the Constitution.
Other troublesome parts of PATRIOT were not subject to sunset or reauthorization. Confusingly similar to these Section 215 powers is Section 505's "national security letters." These may be issued solely by the FBI and allow the taking of records from third parties who are then forbidden to discuss having ratted out their customers.
Section 213 authorized what privacy advocates called "sneak and peek" searches and seizures, in which the typical prior notification involving a judge-authorized warrant was replaced with letting targets know "within a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown." Reasonable here is both undefined and unlikely.
Did PATRIOT Help?
The FISA process was known to be error-prone even prior to its post-9/11 expansion. According to a report issued in 2006 by the Justice Department's Office of Inspector General, 75 errors were made in 2000–01 regarding a target's asserted connections to foreign terror. A 2007 report from the same office found that FBI agents produced a similar pattern of exceeding their authority with national security letters, including aiming them at the wrong people, taking things the national security letters did not specify, and executing them past the stated time period in the request.
Bush administration officials liked to keep their secret investigations and secret laws as secret as they could, frequently stonewalling even relevant congressional committees about how the act's provisions were being used and often revealing details only behind closed doors to Congress members and staffers with relevant top-secret clearance. (Many offices, having no such credentialed staff, just had to stay in the dark.) Intel folk in the executive branch seemed to think the obligations of informed democracy were met by an elite of intelligence committee muckety-mucks in Congress knowing (some of) what the administration was up to, with the actual electorate kept rightly in the dark.
Such obscurity, coupled with the vague catchall of "information sharing" across intel agencies, helped spread the notion that the PATRIOT Act was vital for national security. But as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) argued on its website, "the Patriot Act is not the reason for improvements in information sharing…FISA information, properly obtained for foreign intelligence purposes, could always be shared with criminal investigators if relevant to crime. Rather, the Patriot Act is about making it easier to use FISA as an end-run around the Fourth Amendment."
The ACLU further noted that "a list obtained by the Justice Department defines only 361 cases defined as terrorism investigations from September 11, 2001 to September 2004" and that "only 39 of these individuals were convicted of crimes related to terrorism." And how earthshaking were these terror arrests? One indication: "The median sentence for these crimes was 11 months."
PATRIOT's terror-fighting record did not improve much over time, either. Critics thought that practices such as sneak-and-peek searches meant to make end-runs around the Fourth Amendment would become common law enforcement practice, not just for urgent emergency needs to shut down a terror plan. And they were right. As Lee Tien of the Electronic Freedom Foundation wrote in 2014, "Exactly what privacy advocates argued in 2001 is happening: sneak and peek warrants are not just being used in exceptional circumstances…but as an everyday investigative tool."
Tien pointed out a consistent pattern from 2009 to 2013 of the use of them for terrorism-related cases being consistently less than 1 percent of total uses, with narcotics cases in each of those years being over 70 percent. That pattern can still be seen in the 2020 figures, with 71 percent for drugs. The pie chart on a federal court report on that year's use of what they call "delayed notice" warrants does not even have anything related to terror as a listed category.
As much as PATRIOT did, for the Bush administration it didn't do enough—so officials quickly, and covertly, went beyond even its expanded tools and authorities. These surreptitious mission creeps were known under various names, including the colorful "Stellarwind," a program uncovered in 2005 by The New York Times. (Those overly optimistic about the watchdog press should note that the paper held that information for a year over national security concerns before publishing it.) As the Times eventually reported, Stellarwind had "monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years."
Yet the excesses of the information-gathering machine enabled by the PATRIOT Act were only just beginning to shock the conscience of the world.
The Snowden Effect
Those keeping a close eye on the security state already knew by the turn of the 2010s that the government was doing disturbing things, such as having secret rooms built in a major AT&T center in San Francisco from which to grab internet traffic (enabled by another pre-PATRIOT authorization, the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, which mandated that telecom companies deliberately design their systems to aid in government eavesdropping). The search engine company Yahoo! was already complaining in 2009 (while asking the government to reject a FOIA request regarding what Yahoo! got paid to give up information on their customers to the feds) that letting the world know how much they delivered regarding their customers would successfully "shame Yahoo!" and "shock" their customers, as they accuse the FOIA requester of wanting to do.
The journalist James Bamford, who has written multiple books about the National Security Agency (NSA), concluded as early as 2008 that "the idea of communications privacy in the United States has literally become a joke." By then, pranksters from the San Francisco Billboard Liberation Front had already altered an AT&T billboard to read: "AT&T works in more places, like NSA HEADQUARTERS."
Even then, the spooks' appetite for making sure they were capable of maximum snooping without pesky encryption or civil liberties getting in the way could not quite be sated. In 2013, that pathological drive would finally become common knowledge.
The breakthrough came with the colorful espionage tale of former CIA man and then–NSA contractor Edward Snowden. After leaking gigabytes of info grabbed from within one of the feds' Hawaii data warrens and then hightailing it to Hong Kong as an international fugitive, he eventually wound up in Russia after the U.S. cancelled his passport. Suddenly, it began to sink in that the government wanted to know everything it possibly could about us—and that it was using the PATRIOT Act's Section 215 as legal justification for acting on that desire.
The surveillance machine was scooping up staggering amounts of metadata—records of which phone numbers were calling which, when, and for how long, and the analogous information generated by internet use—under the belief that, well, it might prove relevant to some terror or foreign-espionage investigation. FISA judges, compliant as always, agreed. While intelligence apologists stressed that no actual content was being retained or read, very full accounts of one's private doings can be easily gleaned from knowing every phone number a person calls and every website a person visits.
In Barton Gellman's 2020 Snowden book Dark Mirror, former NSA deputy director Rick Ledgett offered the best defense intel pros could come up with to appease outraged Americans: "I get that they are concerned that the government is listening to their communications, but the government just doesn't care. Things they're doing are not interesting enough from a national security perspective."
The Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board, a bipartisan executive branch agency, determined in a 2014 report after the Snowden revelations that NSA's bulk telephone records program "has shown minimal value in safeguarding the nation from terrorism. Based on the information provided to the Board, including classified briefings and documentation, we have not identified a single instance involving a threat to the United States in which the program made a concrete difference in the outcome of a counterterrorism investigation."
Because of the secrecy surrounding most aspects of the program, it's next to impossible to assess the tangible harms from PATRIOT and post-PATRIOT surveillance. Still, we know that as Obama left office he made it easier for the NSA to share information it grabbed overseas with American law enforcement, even if those communications involve American citizens. As the ACLU of Massachusetts warned in 2016, this allowed domestic law enforcement "to poke around in your private information in the course of totally routine investigations. And if they find something that suggests, say, involvement in illegal drug activity, they could send that information to local or state police. That means information the NSA collects for purposes of so-called 'national security' will be used by police to lock up ordinary Americans for routine crimes."
To legally cover their tracks about potentially ill-gotten evidence—the NSA was specifically known to share information with the Drug Enforcement Administration—law enforcement agencies often feel obliged to come up with what they call "parallel construction": an alternate, untrue story for how they learned the information that doesn't involve relying on warrantless NSA procedures.
And no matter what paper barriers exist to protect Americans from surveillance abuse, the work is done by actual human beings who often do whatever they want to, and can. ABC News reported in 2008 about NSA whistleblowers with tales of giggling over salacious personal details revealed in phone calls from Americans in the Middle East whose actual content they amused themselves by listening in on. This included eavesdropping on soldiers in Baghdad "calling home to the United States, talking to their spouses, sometimes their girlfriends," with staffers taking as a perk of their NSA job the power to overhear "personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism."
The mass phone metadata program, the most memorable and understandable symbol of post-PATRIOT government overreach, was finally reined in legislatively with 2015's USA FREEDOM Act, which changed NSA access to the phone records from "they take it all from telcos" to "telcos keep it but run searches for the NSA on demand." The searches were now supposed to be limited to two "hops" from the targeted phone number (to every number called from it, and then to every number called from all of those), which still could turn dozens of targeted numbers into millions of records, involving countless people with no connection to any sinister foreign behavior.
The Age of Terror Never Ended
President Donald Trump and his administration added a new wrinkle to the usual Washington reauthorization dance, combining official support for keeping as much surveillance power as possible with sporadic declarations from the president himself, often in tweets, that FISA-approved surveillance may have bedeviled his own communications. Trump railed against the "deep state" while continuing to empower it: Even after the NSA itself had (at least officially) abandoned it, for example, the Trump administration, in an August 2019 letter to Congress signed by then–Director of National Intelligence Dan Coates, asked for an eternal commitment without further sunsetting to the USA FREEDOM Act version of the call-records program.
But there was one silver lining in Trump's zigzag: After the Department of Justice's inspector general slammed the FBI in a 478-page December 2019 report over a dubiously sourced warrant to conduct surveillance against low-level Trump campaign staffer Carter Page (that surveillance having been the spark that lit the Justice Department's two-year special Russia investigation), the Republican Party no longer had the stomach for automatic renewals of PATRIOT's sunset provisions. In March 2020, Section 215, the roving wiretap authorization, and the lone wolf provision all legally expired.
The irregularities in the Carter Page FISA application were no unique artifact of a deep state out to gut Trump. According to a 2019 article published on the Electronic Frontier Foundation website, "Over the past twenty years, federal agencies have repeatedly misled the FISC about the nature and scope of FISA surveillance. For example, in one opinion from 2009, a FISC judge recounted how the NSA had 'repeatedly submitt[ed] inaccurate descriptions' of the way the NSA was conducting surveillance. In another opinion from 2011, another FISC judge wrote that he was 'troubled' by the government's 'substantial misrepresentations regarding the scope of a major collection program'—the 'third instance in less than three years' of the government misleading the FISC about a significant aspect of the government's surveillance programs."
But the surprising death of Section 215 is no reason for privacy-conscious Americans to believe the post-9/11 surveillance hangover is gone. As Timothy Edgar, author of Beyond Snowden: Privacy, Mass Surveillance, and the Struggle to Reform the NSA (Brookings Institution Press), wrote in World Politics Review in April, "The NSA's most sweeping surveillance powers involve its collection of data outside the United States—powers that are not affected by the expiration of a few provisions of the Patriot Act. In the internet age, this data can and does include the communications of both Americans and others, and the NSA can collect it without a court order or meaningful oversight from Congress."
The mentality of the post-9/11 surveillance state has not gone away, even if the weird political exigencies of one Congress in the latter days of the Trump administration let some of its legal authority lapse. The PATRIOT Act built a machine designed to exaggerate and exploit fears of dangerous Others. That sort of weaponized anxiety tends to become free-floating and self-perpetuating.
The PATRIOT Act was the fruit of a poisoned tree, and we can still see the shadow of its overgrowth in 2021 as the Biden administration transfers its own "domestic terror" anxieties onto anything related to Trumpism following the January 6 melee. The administration in June issued a new strategy report on domestic terrorism, and while so far it seeks no new lawmaking power, that report troublingly insists that "it is equally important that the Federal Government engage in efforts to prevent individuals from being drawn into the grip of domestic terrorism in the first instance. That means reducing both supply and demand of recruitment materials by limiting widespread availability online and bolstering resilience to it by those who nonetheless encounter it, among other measures." That smacks of the sort of infiltration and harassment of people who have, as of yet, merely engaged in First Amendment protected activities.
Also alarming for those who want their online lives free from content-based snooping is the declaration that "the widespread availability of domestic terrorist recruitment material online is a national security threat whose front lines are overwhelmingly private-sector online platforms, and we are committed to informing more effectively the escalating efforts by those platforms to secure those front lines."
Hugh Handeyside, a senior staff attorney with the ACLU's National Security Project, says those sorts of emphases means Biden's plan "relies on tools and structures that have proven deeply harmful to Muslim and immigrant communities and have focused on speech and other constitutionally protected activities as a basis for investigation."
Feingold, now head of the American Constitution Society, warned his former Democratic colleagues on Capitol Hill in a February Wall Street Journal op-ed not to let fear of a Trumpist threat convince them that more expanded legal powers are needed. He wrote there that "the overwhelming tendency in domestic antiterrorism has been to use invasive and unconstitutional surveillance techniques to criminalize legitimate dissent" and in an interview stresses that progressive activists have as much of a chance as being ensnared in any new emphasis on fighting domestic terror inspired by January 6. Indeed, two people who harmed empty portions of the controversial Dakota Access Pipeline have already been hit with enhanced sentences this year, based on the claim that they were domestic terrorists.
The PATRIOT Act defines "domestic terror" as breaking the law in a manner that "involves acts dangerous to human life" in order to "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." Given how easy it is to break some law while protesting, especially if police come to disperse you, this interpretation has alarming implications for the right to speak out against government actions in a public setting. This can affect Black Lives Matter as easily as Team MAGA.
Online activity and metadata and even private papers stored on our devices are still quite vulnerable to prying eyes, both private and federal—and the former can too easily become the latter. In August, Apple announced that it intended to pre-load its devices with a tool allowing the company to search for signs of child pornography, encrypted or not. Alliances between the government and the companies that make the devices we all use to communicate, whether those alliances are eagerly embraced or coerced, are not going away post-Snowden. New motives will always arise to justify the government's desire to annihilate our information privacy. The PATRIOT Act was not the source of that government compulsion to snoop, nor will the expiration of some of its most controversial provisions mark the end of it.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
For whatever reasons, thanks for shrinking big gov't and domestic espionage, you BadOrangeMan, you.
But now let's keep those mean tweets away so the nice young democratic FBI unicorn isn't offended.
thanks for shrinking big gov’t and domestic espionage
Ignorant Peanut actually might believe this.
Kill yourself you pedo
Seriously I don’t know why more people haven’t tried this, I work two shifts, 2 hours in the day and 2 in the evening…FKh And i get surly a check of $12600 what’s awesome is I m working from home so I get more time with my kids.
Try it, you won’t regret it........VISIT HERE
I made over $700 per day using my mobile in part time. I recently got my 5th paycheck of $19632 and all i was doing is to copy and paste work online. this home work makes me able to generate more cash daily easily. simple to do work and regular income from this are just superb. Here what i am doing.
Try now……………… READ MORE
I’d strongly support expanded government espionage if it only applied to people disseminating child pornography. And even more so if the penalty for this heinous crime was execution.
You Denny Hastert QAnon types can only lie.
I’m all for it applying to Hastert. People that engage in those acts and traffic media documenting them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And if convicted, should face capital punishment.
I made over $700 per day using my mobile in part time. I recently got my 5th paycheck of $19632 and all i was doing is to copy and paste work online. this home work makes me able to generate more cash daily easily.ZXv simple to do work and regular income from this are just superb. Here what i am doing.
Try now……………… Visit Here
You rape children. No one gives a shit what you think. You are a subject of hatred and scorn.
Fuck Joe Biden
I feel your pain, loser.
Oh, did you win something?
Yeah! 2020 election! Thanks for asking!
Is being the local dog catcher all you thought it would be? Folks hound you about stray dogs? Are some barking up the wrong tree when they call with unrelated issues?
You’re an idiotic Marxist drone. A silly bitch that votes against his own interests based on delusion.
If your masters prevail, you will likely end up a drawstring lamp.
Phuck Phailing Phil Murphy...
Governor of the People's Republic of NJ, and hoping he LOSES the election in one week.* The man is utterly incompetent, and his incompetence managed to kill off thousands of elderly nursing home patients last year, when he mandated nursing homes take in covid-19+ patients. The man was blinded by his own progressive ideology. The fool.
* Early voting started here in the People's Republic of NJ. The NJ state Legislature changed the law this year to allow early voting, just in time for Phailing Phil's re-election bid.
If only Jack would actually campaign a little.
I know, I know. TBH though, the media basically shuns him.
Fuck Joe Biden
Ah, another poor loser. Try salve.
Good thing this act exponentially expanding the power of government was signed by that ultra-conservative Bush.
you misspelled "neo"
I've only flown on an airplane once since 9/11 because of overly intrusive and nonsensical security measures imposed by the federal government.
Bush also overreacted by falsely claiming they had weapons of mass destruction (whatever they were), and invading Iraq.
The yellowcake story was pushed hard by the NYT and other left-leaning media. Bush was a knucklehead, and his reasons for the Iraq war were stupid, but the stance wasn't purely limited to the right-wing types.
(D) wanted war just as hard.
That's false Dillinger.
House Democrats voted against the Iraq war by 126-81 while GOP House members voted for it 215-6.
In the Senate, Democrats voted for it 29-21 while GOP senators voted for it 48-1.
While I'm a centrist Democrat, most left democrats vigorously opposed it, as did I (I favored Afghanistan), while only a few like Glenn Greenwald favored it. Hard to tell since he now uses Rep Cheney's war support against her.
AUMF vote was 508-1 and brought to the table by Tom Daschle so Even Steven at best
How did then (D) Senator Biden vote?
Like he always did, for more violence and centralized power.
A ‘centrist’ democrat? WTF does that even mean anymore? Vaccine mandates, wealth taxes, an open border, causing Afghanistan to fall to the Taliban and leaving thousands of Americans behind, etc. are all ‘centrist’? Proposing a budget that features a $5 trillion deficit is ‘centrist’?
Ok buddy, whatever you say.
After looking at this recent history, I wonder how anyone could think it's "paranoid" to not trust the government.
Yeah, I know. When "your" president is in power it's okay, right? Ha, yeah right. But even if it really is, what about the next guy to take the office? Why the fuck doesn't anybody think about that?
There’s a difference between not trusting the government, which can be done calmly and rationally, and being paranoid.
+1
And I think it's perfectly rational to look ahead to how a government may abuse a power that is being delegated to it. In fact I think that is the only rational way to look at it.
To think it's okay for government to have unlimited power just because you like the current administration is NOT rational. It's little more than a personality cult.
+1
Off to a bad start with:
"American history neither began nor ended on 9/11. That day's vile events shoved the nation down a darker path than it might otherwise have trod, but just as the attack inflicted on America was the poisoned fruit of past policy crimes and mistakes..."
So, we deserved 9/11 I guess, chickens coming home to roost, etc.
From there a lot of information and probably much of it true, I am less concerned with the use of the PA for catching drug crimes than I am for his claim of it's ineffectiveness. I know federal prosecutors who worked with FBI for years on real crimes - gang killings and drugs mostly - and while they didn't have authority for the PA, cell phone information like locations was a regular tool. Hey, if you're breaking he law, don't do it on the internet or your cell phone, but they don't care if you prefer Walmart to Amazon, and their goals are ones you'd applaud. Same with international terrorists who may not give fair warning or in time. I'm for the NSA having the tools they need to stop another 9/11, and they have. When I hear about a conviction for a returning GI smuggling cigarettes back home, I'll get mad.
Remember, privacy is a modern luxury - a good one, but non-existent in ancient tribal or village life. Let's encourage it, but keep perspective, including civil rights violations in America by the police and other government authorities. Anyone want to trade now for the 1950s?
False choice.
It's not a choice, it's an argument to keep historic perspective so you don't falsely convince yourself of how bad we have it and throw the baby out with the bath water.
I feel your pain, loser.
Oh, did you win something?
Nope. I’m interacting with you, loser.
Joe Friday, I'd respond to you this way. I think (hope) we agree that the argument 9/11 was 'chickens coming home to roost' was bullshit. Nineteen terrorists, inspired by Islamic jihadist thought, executed a terror plan that killed ~3K innocent Americans. Islamic jihadist ideology is incompatible with western political thought. That is what 9/11 was about.
Your privacy point is correct. There really is no 'total privacy' in the digital world. But I think you might agree with me about these things.
The federal government should fullyrespect our 4A rights.
Data brokers (e.g. experian, etc) and private industry should be required to get affirmative consent to use your data in a de-anonymized fashion.
The very thought of handing the IRS a 'hunting license' to go rooting through our financial accounts at will for any reason should give everyone a case of the creepy crawlies.
I'm good with all that Commenter. Devil might be in the details of course and we may disagree there, but principles, yes!
I’m for the NSA having the tools they need to stop another 9/11, and they have.
They also prevented us from being attacked by space invaders from Omicron Persei 8, don't forget.
Maybe you're still alive because of the NSA's efforts. And because of CIA and U.S. special forces since 9/11 putting their lives on the line and killing terrorists around the world as you've slept serenely in your comfy bed at night.
Maybe we care more about our rights than we do about risks to our safety.
Maybe people who would trade their liberties for safety are traitors to the Constitution and cowards.
P.S. If the NSA had saved our lives, it wouldn't be a mystery. We'd never hear the end of it.
Fuckin' LOL when a leftist starts pimping the MIC and surveillance state.
I dont think so
The PATRIOT Act defines "domestic terror" as breaking the law in a manner that "involves acts dangerous to human life" in order to "influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion."
Little did the Bushpigs know that this "domestic terror" would be their GOP brethren wearing MAGA caps.
"The anti-terrorism bill we consider today is measured and prudent. . . . It takes a number of important steps in waging an effective war on terrorism. It allows law enforcement to keep up with the modern technology these terrorists are using. The bill contains several provisions which are identical or nearly identical to those I previously proposed." (Senator Biden, Congressional Record, October 25, 2001)
Like I didn't know that Biden is just another Finger-in-the-Wind politician?
The only Senator worthy of praise from back then was Russ Feingold - the only Senator who voted against the Patriot Act and the AUMF.
And voters dumped him for another jackass fraudster liar.
Like I didn’t know that Biden is just another Finger-in-the-Wind politician?
No, he is truly a force of evil.
Iirc he also opposed further criminalizing your vice.
There's a big difference between a conspiracy theory with a slippery slope fallacy and pointing out that the Patriot Act was ripe for abuse as written. The real brake on these kinds of abuses was always the public's willingness to tolerate them. And seeing the president publicly authorize the FBI to target parents who oppose their local school boards should be terrifying if it isn't surprising. It suggests that a significant progressive portion of the American public finds authoritarianism not only acceptable but also desirable. The brakes are failing.
It's probably time to dust off our arguments about Hannah Ardent and the origin of totalitarianism.
"Dr. Arendt brilliantly uses the French “rehearsal” to show how anti-Semitism becomes a platform uniting the “elite” and the “mob” in contempt for bourgeois society and its laws; and in seeing that this alliance lies at the heart of the totalitarian movements of the 20th century, she makes one of her most important contributions . . . . Dr. Arendt shows that anti-Semitism of this modern variety has a long leftist history (Marx’s hatred of “the Jew” is a case in point); such anti-Semitism is not, as so many still think, the attitude of conservatives wishing to preserve the status quo, but of men bent on its destruction."
----Commentary, April 1951
"The Origins of Totalitarianism, by Hannah Arendt"
https://www.commentary.org/articles/david-riesman/the-origins-of-totalitarianism-by-hannah-arendt/
Ardent argued that anti-Semitism wasn't the end goal of totalitarian Nazis but a dry run for their total control of society. It shouldn't need to be said that plenty of anti-Semites suffered at the hands of Nazi repression, as well. We see the same kind of thing taking shape with American progressives. The progressives who cheer on the government for shooting unarmed protesters or applaud using the FBI to target parents for opposing their local school boards are some of the same people who will be targeted by the anti-racist, anti-transphobic, anti-xenophobic, anti-xenophobic, progressive mob tomorrow.
The ultimate progressive goal isn't really to target white privilege, homophobia, xenophobia, and sexism. They want total control of society, including control over our speech, thoughts and feelings. Anyone who imagines that the only victims of the FBI using the Patriot Act to target parents for opposing their school boards will be the racists, insurrectionists, and homophobes is nuts. Subjugating "insurrectionists" isn't the end goal. Progressives have total contempt for "bourgeois society and its laws" just like the totalitarians of old. These are dry runs before the progressives finally put free society to rest.
The slippery slope fallacy is a logical concept. In politics one seldom finds anything approaching logic. Most often politics is driven by emotion.
Indeed, all too often you'll hear politicians, media types, activists, etc. loudly insisting that the slope should be slippery. "Well, we already restrict free speech in situations A, B, and C. What harm would it do to also restrict it in situation D?" If they have people sufficiently angry or frightened about situation D too many of the people will buy the argument.
Well, in this case, just because it could have been a slippery slope fallacy, doesn't mean there wasn't a great potential for abuse. And the flaws in the legislation made it particularly ripe for abuse. Meanwhile, the public's willingness to tolerate those abuses was always the ultimate brake on them, and for a significant portion of the American public, who identify as progressive, the abuse of their opponents' rights is not something to be avoided--but applauded.
So, whatever the view was from September of 2001 in terms of the potential for abuse, we're no longer just looking forward to the potential for abuse. We can look backwards and see the trail of abuses that have occurred because of the Patriot Act, and we can look at the abuses that are being openly perpetrated by the Biden administration in the present. We're no longer talking about what might happen in a chain reaction. We can talk about what's happened, and what's happening right before our eye.
They're siccing the FBI on parents for opposing their elected school boards, and it isn't a scandal. No one has announced a special prosecutor. No one is arguing that this is an impeachable offense. Biden isn't doing this in secret without the public's knowledge. He's announcing the order to sic the FBI on parents for opposing their school boards, and he's being applauded for it by the news media. There's no slippery slope anymore. The brakes are out, and that's why we're sliding downhill.
Ken, maybe you can list some of these abuses from the Patriot Act or from Biden. Obviously you can't but ask us to accept the paranoid fantasies rotting your mind. The best the author of the column came up with is they are busting drug deals. Gee, that's terrible. This cannot stand.
Mike, Biden’s Attorney General Merrick Garland issued a memorandum using the Patriot Act to direct federal counterterrorism agents to monitor parents at local school board meetings.
Chumby, no, he didn't. Here's the memo:
"In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and
threats of violence against school administrators, board members, teachers, and staff who
participate in the vital work of running our nation's public schools. While spirited debate about
policy matters is protected under our Constitution, that protection does not extend to threats of
violence or efforts to intimidate individuals based on their views.
Threats against public servants are not only illegal, they run counter to our nation's core
values. Those who dedicate their time and energy to ensuring that our children receive a proper
education in a safe environment deserve to be able to do their work without fear for their safety.
The Department takes these incidents seriously and is committed to using its authority
and resources to discourage these threats, identify them when they occur, and prosecute them
when appropriate. In the coming days, the Department will announce a series of measures
designed to address the rise in criminal conduct directed toward school personnel.
Coordination and partnership with local law enforcement is critical to implementing these
measures for the benefit of our nation's nearly 14,000 public school districts. To this end, I am
directing the Federal Bureau of Investigation, working with each United States Attorney, to
convene meetings with federal, state, local, Tribal, and territorial leaders in each federal judicial
district within 30 days of the issuance ofthis memorandum. These meetings will facilitate the
discussion of strategies for addressing threats against school administrators, board members,
teachers, and staff, and will open dedicated lines of communication for threat reporting,
assessment, and response.
The Department is steadfast in its commitment to protect all people in the United States
from violence, threats of violence, and other forms of intimidation arid harassment. "
https://www.justice.gov/ag/page/file/1438986/download
An actual threat or violence is a local law enforcement issue. Maybe the federal agents want to get in on this kind of action:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dUCvNTy7jh8
Yeah, it's a local law enforcement issue, and local law enforcement is perfectly capable of handling these things. They've been handling these cases for 200 years. There isn't anything new about school board meetings getting out of hand either. That was happening during the school bussing controversies, the prayer in public school controversies, the intelligent design controversies, the introduction of sex ed, controversies, etc., etc. for decade after decade.
The only thing new about this is that we have a progressive president in power and a sizable number of progressive in the general public who enthusiastically support authoritarian polices--like siccing the FBI on people for opposing their elected local school board. Progressives are all about using the coercive power of government to inflict their policies on the American people against their will--which is fundamentally authoritarian.
It should be noted, too, the intent of siccing the FBI on parents for opposing their local school boards is to silence opposition to progressive policies. Progressives want parents to be too afraid to speak out and oppose their local progressive school board--for fear of being labeled an insurrectionist by the FBI and the local media by name. Biden and the Democrats are using the FBI to spread fear of criticizing public officials, with the full support of average progressives, and that's another reason why progressives are America's most horrible people.
Also, there is zero spike in incidences of violence at school board meetings. This is just a an unconstitutional move to intimidate people from speaking up against CRT, COVID restrictions, tranny indoctrination, and other democrat propaganda in government schools.
Fine, make that argument.
Glad we agree that what Ken accused Garland and Biden of is paranoid bulls..t. Or at least you can't defend it.
They used a parent whose daughter had been raped to justify their action.
This really isn't a hill you want to die on, Joe. Let the coof or cancer do that to you instead.
Yeah, Old Man Bad. but Bush was bad first.
As bad as Bush was, for letting the cat out of the bag in the first place, his intent was not to sic the FBI on parents for opposing the policies of their local school boards. What Bush did was unconstitutional, violated our rights, unethical and was wrong for those reasons. It was also wrong because of its potential for being turned against average Americans for opposing their own elected officials. What Biden is doing is wrong for all of those reasons, too, but in addition to being unconstitutional, violating our rights, and being unethical, he is actually realizing the potential for abuse.
Bush was more of an enabler.
Biden and the progressives are the evil that Bush enabled.
And I think there's a difference--even if both are wrong and bad.
^THIS
Ken writes:
"...seeing the president publicly authorize the FBI to target parents who oppose their local school boards should be terrifying if it isn’t surprising."
Yeah, and if it were true which it isn't. What's with all the drama queens on this board?
the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon provided an expedient excuse to fulfill law enforcement's longstanding wish list.
I really don't understand the seeming surprise or opposition to this. Rephrase it - events in the real world provided an excuse to fulfill the reforms advocated by those who wanted to change the status quo. Doh.
This is how the world works. Or it's how it works when everyone is paying attention to events in the real world. When that happens both those who want to change things (in all directions) and those who want to oppose those changes (in all directions). And the result is a healthy cacophonous argument - and actual change will tend to be quite moderate and slow.
Very different if one group is focusing on events in the real world as they happen - and another is focusing on the sort of uberrationalist arguments favored by Rousseau, Rothbard, and Pol Pot - while another thinks that letters of marque and reprisal (and maybe a parrot on shoulder) is the way to deal with stuff.
Targeting the actual bad guy (bin Laden) with a fully Constitutional letter of marque and reprisal seems vastly superior to targeting the American people and an uninvolved nation (Iraq) with an unconstitutional invasion of our privacy and an actual invasion of Iraq.
We don't use the Third Amendment much anymore either, but it is still valid and the law of the land.
Well - this argument is exactly why libertarians should spend more time understanding and living in the real world. Privateering has been illegal under international law since 1856. In a similar vein, formal declarations of war have been illegal since the UN charter. Further, privateering really doesn't make sense at all even to achieve the objective you state since binladen was in a landlocked country living in a cave with no booty to legally steal. Oh - and you really get to find out what blowback looks like when the US turns into a rogue state that thinks mercenaries will protect it from harm.
Regardless of whether one thinks we should just pull out of the UN and all international law - or amend the constitution to address current realities of international law. This is precisely the sort of real world event that proves that what is constitutional is not in fact legal because those elements of the constitution do not cover activities carried out within the geographies where the constitution is the sovereign legal authority.
We don’t base our constitution on the laws of other nations. Nor should we.
>> just as the attack inflicted on America was the poisoned fruit of past policy crimes and mistakes
lolwut? who told you that?
the study of history?
#believeallexcuses
A lot of people cared, at first.
Bush tried to launch Total Information Awareness and it faced widespread public criticism.
Then Snowden revealed the govt was doing all that and more, and people shrugged and said "we figured the government was spying on everything already anyway".
There seems to be no organized opposition now.
Increased Spending
No Child Left Behind Act
Medicare Drug Benefit Program
Clear Skies Act
Bush Jr. sounds just like a "mild" Democrat.
Add on top of that some real Democrat like Obama
= The Snowden Leak; Massive NSA spying, Campaign spying/prosecuting, Witch-Hunting, etc, etc, etc......
Then you have REAL Republicans like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Mike Lee... Who want to put an end to this disgrace.
This is why some of us were out in the streets way back when, protesting against the PATRIOT ACT. If REASON wants to regain the initiative for liberty, let's see some real activism in opposing the Regime's current wave of repression.
One Senator stood up to tyranny and voted no one the Patriot act. Conservatives won't like to hear this, but it was very liberal Russ Feingold from Wisconsin. Even Ron Paul, who complained about the consequences eventually voted for the Patriot act. The end result of domestic spying was known and assured at the time of the vote. Keep that in mind as you lose your freedoms.
The law was a disaster when put in place during the Bush Admin. It had an expiration date and democrats controlled all 3 branches of government and they renewed it as is without out a single change. Until a 3rd party gets a say, we have bipartisan support to continue with this injustice.
The law was a disaster when put in place during the Bush Admin. It had an expiration date and democrats controlled all 3 branches of government and they renewed it as is without out a single change. Until a 3rd party gets a say, we have bipartisan support to continue with this injustice. One Senator stood up to tyranny and voted no one the Patriot act. Conservatives won't like to hear this, but it was very liberal Russ Feingold from Wisconsin. Even Ron Paul, who complained about the consequences eventually voted for the Patriot act. The end result of domestic spying was known and assured at the time of the vote. Keep that in mind as you lose your freedoms.
As dirty Harry said when he was pummeling Andy Robinson, "The fourth amendment? If that's next to your fifth vertebrate, I just broke it".
Nice article