Coronavirus

The CDC's Ever-Shifting COVID-19 Advice Shows the Agency Is Ill-Suited To Decide Which Risks Are Acceptable

The CDC's recommendations have never been purely a matter of science.

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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which initially said there was no need for most Americans to wear face masks as a safeguard against COVID-19, reversed that position a little more than a year ago. Beginning in April 2020, the CDC said face masks were an essential disease control tool, even for people who have been vaccinated. Yesterday the CDC modified its advice again, saying fully vaccinated Americans generally do not need to wear masks outdoors or indoors, except when required to do so by businesses or the government.

At each turn, the CDC has said its recommendations were informed by the latest scientific evidence. While there is some truth to that claim, it is clear that other, nonscientific factors have played a role in the CDC's shifting attitude toward face coverings as a response to the COVID-19 pandemic. The history of that evolution provides ample reason to be skeptical of both the CDC's specific recommendations and the expectation that all Americans should conform to its notion of safety.

'You Do Not Need to Wear a Facemask'

As late as April 3, 2020—more than two months after the first confirmed COVID-19 case in the United States, when the country was recording more than 26,000 new infections and nearly 1,000 deaths a day—the CDC was telling Americans to "wear a facemask if you are sick." But "if you are NOT sick," it said, "you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask)." It added that "facemasks may be in short supply and they should be saved for caregivers."

The CDC changed its advice the next day, saying "everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public," because "you could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick." It said "the cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected." But it added that people should "NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker," meaning surgical masks and N95 respirators. The most effective face coverings, in other words, were still reserved for medical professionals.

"Here's what's changed," then-Surgeon General Jerome Adams claimed on Meet the Press. "We now know that about 25 percent, in some studies even more, of COVID-19 is transmitted when you are asymptomatic or presymptomatic." That estimate actually referred to the percentage of people infected by the COVID-19 virus who never develop symptoms. Then–CDC Director Robert Redfield began citing that number (which was somewhat lower than the CDC's current "best estimate" of 30 percent) on March 31, 2020. But it had been clear at least since February that people could carry the virus for days before they developed symptoms and that some carriers never felt ill.

study published in February 2020, based on 88 cases in Wuhan, China, estimated that the mean incubation period for COVID-19 was 6.4 days. Another study published the same month, based on "publicly available event-date data from the ongoing epidemic," put the incubation period at two to 14 days with a mean of about five days. Based on those findings, the researchers recommended that "the length of quarantine should be at least 14 days." A March 10 study, based on 181 cases, essentially confirmed those results, estimating a mean incubation period of five days and finding that "97.5% of those who develop symptoms will do so within 11.5 days."

January 30 letter to The New England Journal of Medicine, based on several cases in Germany, warned that "asymptomatic persons are potential sources of [COVID-19] infection." A February 13 letter to the International Journal of Infectious Diseases estimated that 31 percent of people infected by the COVID-19 virus did not have symptoms. A research letter published in The Journal of the American Medical Association on February 21 described an asymptomatic carrier from Wuhan who seemed to have infected four other people. A February 26 Global Biosecurity report noted that "asymptomatic transmission has been documented" and "the viral load in symptomatic and asymptomatic people is not significantly different."

report from the World Health Organization published around the same time nevertheless depicted asymptomatic infection as rare. While "asymptomatic infection has been reported," it said, "the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease."

When it came to wearing face masks in public to protect others from infection, however, it did not really matter whether carriers were asymptomatic or presymptomatic. The point was that people could transmit the virus without realizing they were carriers. Given the incubation period, that phenomenon had to be common.

'the most important, powerful public health tool we have'

It seems clear that the CDC conflated two issues: 1) whether wearing face masks in public places was a sensible safeguard, and 2) whether there were enough commercially produced masks to supply the general public as well as medical workers.

"Seriously people—STOP BUYING MASKS!" Adams had tweeted on February 29. "They are NOT effective in preventing [the] general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can't get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!" In other words, Adams wanted the public to believe the same masks on which health care workers relied somehow stopped working when worn by ordinary Americans.

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, likewise questioned the effectiveness of general mask wearing while simultaneously saying that masks should be reserved for health care workers. "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask," he said during a March 8, 2020, interview with 60 Minutes. "When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet. But it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often, there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask, and they keep touching their face…When you think 'masks,' you should think of health care providers needing them."

Fauci, like the CDC, was soon singing a different tune. "There should be universal wearing of masks," he told ABC News in August. "If you look at the scientific data, the masks clearly work," he told CNN the following month.

Around the same time, Redfield claimed that face masks provided better protection than vaccination would. "These face masks are the most important, powerful public health tool we have," he told a Senate subcommittee while holding a cloth mask. "I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine."

Redfield really should not have gone that far. Although it was not yet clear how remarkably effective COVID-19 vaccines would prove to be, his logic was plainly fallacious even then. He imagined that a vaccine might provoke an immune response in 70 percent of the people who received it. "If I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me," he said. "This face mask will." But face masks, like vaccines, are not 100 percent effective, and there was no reason to think they would provide better protection than vaccination.

'IT FEELS LIKE A HUGE SHIFT'

Even after clinical trials and follow-up research showed that vaccines not only prevented serious disease and death but also nearly eliminated the risk of asymptomatic infection, the CDC took a suspenders-and-a-belt approach. In early March 2021, the CDC allowed that "fully vaccinated people" could "visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing." They could even "visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing." But the CDC said they should still "avoid medium- and large-sized in-person gatherings"; "take precautions in public like wearing a well-fitted mask and physical distancing"; "wear masks, maintain physical distance, and practice other prevention measures when visiting with unvaccinated people from multiple households"; and do likewise "when visiting with unvaccinated people who are at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease or who have an unvaccinated household member who is at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease."

The CDC loosened up a bit in late April, saying fully vaccinated people "can gather or conduct activities outdoors without wearing a mask except in certain crowded settings and venues." It also said, "You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart."

But the CDC still was recommending masks for vaccinated people in many situations, including "indoor public settings," private gatherings "with unvaccinated people (including children) from more than one other household," and visits with "an unvaccinated person who is at increased risk of severe illness or death from COVID-19 or who lives with a person at increased risk." It also advised vaccinated people to "avoid large indoor gatherings."

As of yesterday, however, the CDC is saying "fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance." What changed in the last two and a half weeks?

"It was not entirely clear what prompted the new guidance on Thursday," The New York Times notes. "It feels like a huge shift, and I'm not going to follow it," John Swartzberg, an infectious disease specialist at the University of California, Berkeley, told the Times. "Each individual should look at what the CDC is recommending and see if that fits for them." Swartzberg said "this shows tremendous confidence in how well the vaccines work" but added, "The CDC does have data to support this decision. It's not like they're operating on the fly."

Did the CDC acquire those data since April 27, the last time it updated its advice? During a press briefing yesterday, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky cited data from Israel that were available months ago. She also mentioned a study published in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report on April 2 and another in the same journal that was originally published on April 28. The CDC surely was aware of the results reported in the latter study earlier than that.

Walensky added that other studies have shown that the Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines are effective against "variants like B1351." Those include two studies of the Pfizer vaccine "published just last week"—one in The Lancet, the other in The New England Journal of Medicine. "Previous research suggested that B.1.1.7 is more infectious and more deadly than other variants, but that vaccines still worked well against it," The New York Times noted. "But vaccines appeared to be less effective against B.1.351, according to earlier studies."

'Why do we have to wear masks?'

Maybe those two studies provided the crucial pieces of evidence that made the CDC comfortable with relaxing its recommendations for vaccinated people. But it is likely that other factors also played a role.

The CDC seems to have recognized that expecting people to continue living constrained lives even after they get their shots reduces the incentive to get vaccinated, especially among Americans who are at low risk from COVID-19. More generally, the CDC's excessive conservatism makes Americans less likely to take any of its advice seriously. As Sen. Susan Collins (R–Maine) noted during Walensky's Senate testimony this week, "It undermines public confidence in your recommendations, in the recommendations that do make sense, in the recommendations that Americans should be following."

Walensky recently has received a lot of criticism for grossly exaggerating the risk of outdoor COVID-19 transmission and for taking an absurdly cautious approach to the relaxation of COVID-19 control measures, epitomized by the CDC's ridiculous, unworkable guidelines for summer camps, which epidemiologists and infectious disease experts criticized as "cruel," "irrational," and "unfairly draconian." An exchange during a CNBC interview on Wednesday highlighted the growing impatience with the CDC's unreasonable conservatism.

"Everybody in my work group is wearing a mask," Shepard Smith told Walensky. "Everyone. Why do we have to? We're all vaccinated. Why do we have to wear masks?"

Walensky could have responded by noting that the most recent CDC guidance actually allowed Smith and his colleagues to take off their masks, as long as no unvaccinated people were around. Instead she said this:

We have to look at the science with regard to how the vaccine has worked in the real-world setting….We were looking for signs to ensure that the vaccine works just as well in the real world setting as it did in the trials. We need to ensure that the vaccines are working against all of the circulating variants that we have here in the United States. We're following that carefully. And then we need to make sure that you're not an asymptomatic carrier, if in fact you're vaccinated. So all of that science is emerging, that's what we're following and we will use to update our guidance.

Walensky added that "we are looking forward to updating our guidance very soon"—the very next day, in fact. It would be unfair to conclude that emerging science played no role in that decision, at least with respect to the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine against COVID-19 variants. But it likewise would be a mistake to pretend that the CDC's recommendations are purely a matter of science.

As Swartzberg suggested when he said "each individual should look at what the CDC is recommending and see if that fits for them," deciding what COVID-19 safeguards make sense requires value judgments. People have to weigh whether the tiny, possibly nonexistent risks that worry the CDC are worth the cost of forgoing enjoyable activities and the burden of masking and physical distancing. Public health bureaucrats do not have the information necessary to make that assessment, which depends on individual circumstances and preferences.

Most Americans are not as cautious as Swartzberg—or the epidemiologists recently surveyed by the Times, 80 percent of whom thought everyone should continue wearing masks in public for another year. The more the CDC insists that everyone should adopt its view of acceptable risk, the more Americans will rightly ignore its advice.

NEXT: Republicans and Democrats Endorse Concept, but Gloss Over Details, of Funding Infrastructure With User Fees

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  1. They are and have been flailing and failing.

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  2. It’s funny that Reason is so fucking gd stupid.

    Shifting? Yes, in response to new studies and such. It’s the old adage- would you rather be right 50% of the time or wrong 100% of the time.

    The fact they do shift only means they’re doing their jobs and making the best choices with the data given.

    Meanwhile, reason will continue to be mired in idiocy and sell their inane bullshit to the morons here. Big surprise.

    1. SCIENCE!

      FAITH!

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    2. You’re a stupid fuck. The CDC is political and staffed with bureaucratic hacks, who are getting told what to message based on politics only.

      1. Prior to COVID, the CDC were focused on vaping and obesity, neither of which are diseases.

        1. Yeah

          Why would medical professionals want to know about a sudden spike of cases of a severe unknown chemical pneumonitis which was later found to be caused by vitamin E acetate used in black market vaping products. Or the most common and significant co morbid condition in a long list of the most common diseases in the US.

          And it is far from what the CDC has and continues to focus on. It is just the parts you see on the news.

          1. None of that was in vaping products. It was in black market thc cartridges. But the cdc focused on vaping anyway you dunce.

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          2. Wrong product idiot. Never happened with nicotine vaping product. Pay attention.

      2. No. The new director for example has never been in politics. She is an academic MD MPH academic certified in internal medicine, infectious disease, and public health and has spent her career as a professor and chair in teaching and research hospitals.

        The CDC has been putting out information on a wide variety of medical topics for many decades. This weeks MMWR for example contains articles on head trauma from bicycle injuries and inflammatory bowel disease.

        Most people only know them from the stuff that hits the media because it is of political interest so they get that impression. Professionals who have been using them for years have a different perspective.

    3. There was no new science about masks. And there still really isn’t outside of a few models which have yet to be tested (models produce hypotheses that need to be tested, not scientific conclusions) and a study or two showing that masks don’t do much to protect the wearer.

      1. My take is that they lied to us in the beginning to prevent hoarding. Now they have a big credibility problem. Government, meet unintended consequence.

        1. You said it better than I did.

        2. No, they were actually telling the truth originally when they said masks didn’t do anything. Fun fact: they don’t do anything in a hospital setting either. This has been experimentally tested repeatedly over the last hundred years, with random control trials (RCT), and there’s no significant effect of masks, not only against respiratory viruses, but against any type of infection they’ve looked at.

        3. Agree. And unfortunately they don’t seem to remotely get why masks work in Asia.

          Masks – like the ones sold – worn by people who don’t know squat – are not about virus transmission. They are a form of communication in crowded social situations where you can’t actually speak. They tell others – keep your distance. THAT is what works.

          Unfortunately none of this could possibly work in a country like the US with commenters like the ones here. There is no form of communication possible. Now maybe some of these people are actually something other than assholes in real life – but I doubt it for many.

          The second this virus came to the US – the death toll was going to be big and nothing could be done. We are lucky this wasn’t Ebola or smallpox. Since we also learned nothing this time – and most commenters here are incapable of that too – we better hope it ain’t Ebola or smallpox next time.

          1. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/95-percent-of-americans-now-wear-face-masks-after-state-mandates-and-trumps-patriotic-endorsement/ar-BB17pSJw

            From last summer.

            You’re premise is wrong. Americans complied, in spite of any scientific evidence, with mask mandates overwhelmingly from the beginning.

            You’re premise that Republicans n libertarians fueled the pandemic also can’t explain why California, New York, and Michigan had it the same or in many cases worse than places with limited or no restrictions like the Dakota Florida and Texas.

            In short, you’re an idiot.

            1. It is not entirely his fault. CNN, NBC, et al spent all of last year praising New York and Cuomo despite his forcing patients with active cases of covid-19 back into nursing homes and the horrific death rates that resulted. The simultaneously showed pictures of people on the beach in North Florida where there was almost no covid-19 as proof positive that Republican governors were merchants of death. By the end of the summer last year New York had almost four times the deaths that Florida had, despite having a smaller population and a younger population.

              But every single day MSNBC hosts and CNN hosts waxed poetic about the almost saintly actions of New York’s governor and the demonic actions of Florida’s governor, where the total deaths have yet to reach the levels they were at the beginning of the summer in New York.

              So some people should probably be forgiven for believing what they have been told everyday for a year and a half. I mean, it is an obvious and transparent lie that doesn’t stand up to the least bit of scrutiny, but it was repeated frequently and without any equivocation or dissent.

            2. I don’t think it is just R’s or libertarians. It is Americans. I live in a place where people were wearing a mask while walking their dog or driving alone. This ain’t a signal to others to keep distance. Likewise, a whole bunch of anti-social assholes who usually keep their distance because they are misanthropes took the mask opportunity to get in people’s faces in order to argue about masks.

              I’ll grant that most people aren’t at the extremes of stupid and assholish. But the reality is that the extremes of stupid are what captured attention and encouragement. Which means we are very lucky that this was a 0.6% or so IFR rather than a 10%+ IFR.

              1. If it was a 10% IFR, people’s calculus would have changed.

                Of course if his link is right and 95% of Americans actually did mask up, that means that nearly everyone bitching about wearing the masks were complaining while doing so. So your whole premise that Americans are uniquely shitty and uncaring is complete and utter bullshit.

                1. No people’s calcs wouldn’t have changed because denial is not based on calcs. Nor is following orders. And for that change in IFR, by the time people start keeling over and dying in numbers that can’t be ignored, it’s too late. Which is also a realization that people still don’t get.

                  1. So you’re original point was wrong, but it would’ve been right if reality were different, and it’s everyone else who are in denial?

                  2. In short, you remain an idiot and a liar besides.

          2. Of course! We had a problem with the virus because we aren’t all a bunch of progtards!

            Bitch, you get dumber by the day.

          3. You really are an idiot. Nothing you said is true.

        4. DOL

          In medicine that is called triage.

          You devote your limited resources to achieve the most good.

          As it is there was a run on masks. The first ones we could get were home made ones from friends.

      2. It amazes me how many people have such undying faith in Top Men. Clearly 100% of CDC actions are science based. They never make political decisions. And their science is rock solid and indisputable.

        FFS…for those of us who have the ability to think critically, we just want to be treated that way. Not as children to be fed stories to and expected to march in line to whatever the Top Men say.

        1. Thread

          https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1390004013173723144?s=19

          This March 22, 2020 paper about ways to make the public accept lockdowns – from a British government advisory group – may be the most crucial document of the entire pandemic. It’s all there in black and white.

          “THE PERCEIVED LEVEL OF PERSONAL THREAT NEEDS TO BE INCREASED…” [link]

          1. Yeah, saw that a while ago. And that’s what they did. Somehow managed to convince people in their 20s that they were in mortal danger. God, people are suckers.

        2. I think the most charitable interpretation of what they have been doing is that they think they need to trick people into doing the right thing because actual facts and nuance are too confusing. I don’t think that’s a complete explanation by a long shot, but that’s the nicest thing I can see as plausible at all. And it’s pretty damn offensive.

          1. I don’t like paying people to lie to me.

            1. It’s for your own good!

          2. Wait until he finds out about the FDA.

      3. The so-called studies which they say demonstrate mask effectiveness look at the linear trend in infections before and after mask mandates in this country, and that those linear trendlines are different. This is beyond stupid, since it was going to be a Gompertz Curve, which means it was going to be a curve anyway, and the mask mandates came down shortly *after* that curve had peaked. Bad null hypotheses create useless analysis. Garbage in, garbage out. (And indeed, the shape of the curve seems unaffected by the mask mandate – it looks like a Gompertz Curve).

        There’s literally no RCT mask study which shows any effect of wearing a mask against any respiratory disease.

        1. And this is not new or unique. Mass wearing has been a common practice in Asia for decades. It has been well studied and documented over there, and prior to covid-19 skeptics like the New England skeptical society and science-based medicine would comment on the superstition of wearing masks in Asian countries, since science did not back it up.

          To me it is counterintuitive. I mean, even if it only helps 5%, that is some help, right? But measured in the real world researchers were unable to show any impact.

      4. That is true Zeb but how do you design a controlled study to test that. There are too many variables to get a reliable outcome. All you can really do is be empirical about it.

        In any case it is becoming less of an issue. A bigger concern is getting the number of cases down and we have the tools to do that now.

        I hate this virus. It only needs hosts to replicate. Kill it.

      5. quite a liar there!

        masks have been rigoeously studied in the dental world.

        Your ” no it isnt” meme is one of a liar with a dismissive agenda.

        1. Nonsense. It doesn’t matter what dental studies for masks may have concluded. You’re talking about analyzing trained professionals wearing masks in clinical settings. That is not the same thing as Joe Normie wearing his mask in public.

          “C’mon, man!” – Sleepy Joe

          1. A significant portion of the mask debate in the last couple of decades has been in the dental industry. Several of the papers/articles published by various dental associations were taken down because they were inconvenient.

            We don’t need RCT’s to tell us whether or not mask mandates were effective. They didn’t move the needle on national or regional case/hosp/deaths so they aren’t effective. The only outcomes that count are the ones that are evident from the large systemic data sets…the real world outcomes. No effect on real world outcomes? Then not effective.

    4. They are letting policy judgements and predictions color their presentation of the scientific evidence. They are telling us what they think we need to hear in order to get us to behave in ways that they hope will be best overall. So, just like every other politician.

      Given the long history of government agents making bad predictions and trade offs that are not always in my best interest, it leaves me in the position of second guessing their advice.

      And somehow this make me the bad guy.

      1. Oops, meant for the above reply to MP to actually be a reply to Bubba here

    5. Are you a true believer in “the system” [but possibly someone who will listen to other perspectives], or just another troll who needs to be muted?

      I don’t know yet.

      What I do know from working in health care and interacting with a lot of COVID+ people, is that masks do work, IF you
      1. Use the right mask
      2. The right way and
      3. Under the right circumstances

      They are NOT talismans, and much of what I see being worn in the community is laughable.

      But used correctly it kept us who work here from getting the disease; now that we are all vaccinated, our risks are much lower [and we still wear them with symptomatic and positive patients] as is our anxiety and guardedness.

      We need to get back to more than a semblance of normality, and I think many commenters here [including myself] see faith in the “system” [that clearly includes federal bureaucracies] as an impediment to that. Perhaps if you didn’t respond with knee jerk defenses of said system, and stopped referring to your fellow commenters as being “mired in idiocy” there might be some dialogue?

      But if you are not interested in that, then I consider you a troll.

      1. Mosquitos, chain link fence, blah blah blah

      2. youre a liar. masksdo not work period.

        Why masks dontwork. google it

        then read both cdc and nih published research on the topic. google ” porosity on n95 masks”

        1. No, I am not a “liar.”

          In my personal experience, masks do indeed work, if used correctly. It is why I was with many + patients and did not get the virus.

          But as more of us are vaccinated, I very much want to government overreach and theater to be gone.

          Believe as you will; your consequences are your own.

      3. I need something that works. Specifically a mask of +5 COVID resistance. But will the bonus to COVID infection saving throws stack with the bous from the Pfizer Elixir of COVID Defense?

    6. Did you not read the article? The major problem with the reasonable CDC guidelines (those that aren’t ridiculously over cautious) has been that they are super behind. Most of the data behind this decision has been known for awhile.

      And if they are so science-based, why did Walensky go from open all schools prior to appointment to being more in line with the teacher’s unions, even though the evidence for opening schools became STRONGER?

      1. https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1393278011332612107?s=19

        NEW: About 40-50% of CDC, FDA employees are refusing the COVID-19 vaccine according to Fauci, Marks [link]

        1. I wonder if that has anything to do with the political class having spent the 6 months leading up to the election trying to undermine confidence in any vaccine that might be coming in order to undermine Trump’s reelection campaign?

          It’s funny how the troops actually believed what the commanders were saying.

        2. raspberry: ZOMG 50% of the CDC are Traitorous Trumptards!!!!1!1!!

        3. I’m sure that they are just holding off till all the grandmas can get vaccinated. Our betters are so selfless.

      2. Remember when they were trying to get more people tested, to get more data on Covid? Who might have it, maybe already had it, what percentage of people are asymptomatic or naturally immune, etc? I got called twice by the county I live in, once asking if they could test me for free, the next time offering me $100 to get tested.

        Well, that entire time, and up until about 11am this morning, my county, based on CDC guidelines, was ALSO requiring that anyone awaiting the results of a Covid test self-quarantine / isolate. So you couldn’t go to work, or the store, or anything else, for up to 14 days, or whenever the test came back negative. The average turnaround time for receiving results from these tests was about a week: 5 – 10 days.

        So yeah, at the same time they were trying to get more people tested, they were also still maintaining their old, early-pandemic advice, that people who were awaiting results of said tests basically had to endure a house arrest. And that self-quarantining bullshit originated from back when they either didn’t have tests, and then later didn’t have enough, so they were only testing symptomatic people when they had tests available. They just never updated their policy.

        But that’s the CDC for you.

        1. I’m assuming, like when serving on jury duty, that governmental employees received their full wage during the quarantine period. Can’t let the teachers have all the fun and money.

      3. Mothers have known forever that during cold and flu season cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough, wash your hands when you come home, and stay home if you get sick. This is not so different. She didn’t need a scientific study.

        1. “This is not so different”.

          Seriously? Haha. Ok.

    7. Maybe this wise gentleman will explain to us The science behind the CDC, in the space of one month, going from predicting impending doom to telling vaccinated people that they need not follow precautions any longer.

      No matter what your political persuasion, no matter what your view was about the seriousness of Covid, and no matter what your opinion was of the lockdown measures that were implemented, no one should be expected to take the CDC seriously anymore.

      Remember, these are the people who tell you not to eat eggs with runny yolks, and who claim that having more than one alcoholic beverage in a day is alcohol abuse.

      1. And that vaping is like 1,000,000% worse for you than smoking. Never forget the irrational war on a harm reduction product in the name of protecting us simpletons from ourselves.

        1. Actually I think the final advice on vaping was what anyone would tell you. Don’t start if you do not already. It is better to quit altogether. If you can’t and it is keeping you off cigarettes don’t go back.

          Nobody really knows the long term effects but we do know the significant risks of tobacco.

          What is wrong with that?

      2. If that Walensky cunt had any morals and integrity, she would have resigned the minute the White House said that she was speaking on her personal thoughts while sitting in front of the CDC logo.

        1. The weird thing is, before she joined the CDC, she was one of those few experts who were apparently trying to inject a dose of sanity into the situation. I think she is in an almost hostage-like situation about what she can do. It’s really strange.

      3. “and who claim that having more than one alcoholic beverage in a day is alcohol abuse”

        Citation please?

        Wife and I are in the Kaiser Health Care system. We both consume about two drinks a night. Every time we visit Kaiser, we are asked about our consumption of alcohol and the looks and notes from the PA, nurse or doctor are telling. They seem to think this makes us alcoholics!

        And, we’re finding out after about two years in the system, that this is noted on our charts and they are refusing treatment – my wife needs a knee replacement – unless we “quit drinking” for x number of months.

        WTF?

        This seems outrageous to us but, it has given us pause. It’s not like we get drunk every night. Hell, I don’t even get buzzed with two margaritas over a four to six hour period. We don’t drink and drive. And, we never heard of this level of alcohol consumption being bad for one’s health.

        1. You are alcoholics.

          1. Two drinks a night is not alcoholism. It could maybe be classified as a habit. Like, I have a habit of mowing the lawn. I do it every week. I’m not addicted to it – I’m not jonesing to get out the weedwacker when I’ve been away at the office for a couple of hours. I’ve dealt with real alcoholics. That’s a whole different level.

            What you’re doing is like comparing someone who will occasionally smoke a 1-hitter of weed at a party, with someone who is robbing liquor stores to feed their PCP addiction. It’s not close to the same thing.

            1. We both consume about two drinks a night.
              “About two drinks “ means a minimum. And if you are doing it every single night, you have a problem. Doesn’t mean your life is a shambles, but you are dependent on the booze.

              1. “Doesn’t mean your life is a shambles, but you are dependent on the booze.”

                Mind your own fucking business you stupid cunt.

                1. Don’t tell me your business on an Internet comments section if you don’t want me to mention it in that same comments section.

        2. Don’t you know the old medical aphorism? If you ask a man how much do you drink multiply x2 if you ask his wife how much he drinks divide by 2.

          They figure you are lying. A smart doc just says “oh and if you are drinking too much you need to stop or cut way back because…”

        3. why would you tell them the truth? a question like that from a health care system is obviously not going to be a good thing. the only answer is “oh we have an occasional drink on the weekends”. never trust people like that.

      4. They also want you to cook your beef well done. Which should automatically disqualify them from giving any advice about anything.

        1. Well done filet mignon is a crime against bovinity.

          1. Filet is a particularly forgiving cut of meat – it’s still going to be tender and juicy at medium+. But if you come to my grill, it’s going to be on the rare side of medium-rare when it’s served. Hot fire, thick cut, short cooking time, good grill marks.

            1. But if you come to my grill, it’s going to be on the rare side of medium-rare when it’s served.

              That sounds like an invitation, and I accept.

      5. this is not CDC advice. its politically motivated lock step compliance demands from political talking heads.

        both cdc and nih published research saymasksdont work. google” porosity og n95 masks.

        the virusis 120 nanometers. nothing can stop it. its carried in water droplets far smaller than any mask can stop

        google ” why masks dont work”

        notice all these highly educated degreed talking heads ONLY discuss this at the third grade level…thats on purpose

    8. Nothing says ‘Top Men! earning their pay’ like producing results anywhere between abjectly wrong and no more correct than a fair coin.

      Personally, I’d bet against a horse that loses 100% of the time. But that’s me.

    9. You really will repeat just any old party line that comes down the pipe, won’t you?

      The exact same head of the CDC was taking the opposite position two days earlier. And not cautiously. Not guarded with some reservations. She was stating it emphatically. You even had to wear a mask when you played soccer at summer camp outside. This was not some random other person. It was the identical person.

      There were zero studies that came out in the intervening 48 hours. The new information was polling data. People don’t believe them when they say stupid things like that. In fact, it is entirely likely that their guidance on summer camps was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

      Instead of telling people the unvarnished truth, they have been trying to calculate which things they can say that will get people to act in the way that they want them to act. I get that motivation. It is not entirely out of left field to tell people that masks are not necessary when you are facing down the possibility of hospital workers having to go into infectious wards without proper protection. Having your entire nation’s medical staff down with a potentially fatal disease at the same time as you have a swarm of patients overwhelming the hospital is a daunting prospect.

      In this case, they were clearly trying to triangulate the problem of people who have not had covid19 and have not been vaccinated seeing other people not wearing masks in public. Rather than attempting to convince some of the population to wear a mask while other people are not wearing the mask – Which is something of a futile exercise – They decided to claim that everyone needed to wear a mask. There was never any science to back this up. In fact, there was never any science to back up the assertion that people who have already had the disease needed to wear a mask. All of those millions of people could have been walking around mask free for the last year. That would have been perfectly consistent with science. The reason they never said that was political, not scientific. That answer is too complicated, and their judgment.

      Simply repeating talking points serves no one. It is a stupid thing to do at this point. The CDC has not told the truth on this issue for 5 seconds the entire time. The science does not proclaim that double cloth masks are particularly effective at preventing the spread of covid-19. Yet the CDC continued to pretend that they were much more effective than a vaccine. Nobody needs to wear a mask when alone and outside. Yet they recommended exactly that. In fact, Biden made it mandatory on all federal lands.

      Remember, these are the same people who were saying that maybe we could take our masks off in some limited circumstances by July 4th. And this isn’t 6 months ago, this is in the last 2 weeks.

      A combination of electoral politics and the politics of personal persuasion have ruled their positions, not science. Their objectives may have been informed by science, but what they told us was never complete nor accurate.

      1. Exactly. Increasingly, the closed blue states are realizing that they’ve been played as the open states have no masks and no crisis. If the CDC doesn’t jump ahead of this, they will get totally left behind instead of mostly left behind.

      2. Where is the damn Like button?

        1. It’s ^

      3. What’s particularly galling is all that has been true from day one. Yet the Party of Science has treated everything coming from the CDC as an unbiased source of pure truth.

        Just like how the Party of Wokeness treats their media.

      4. Your problem is that you’re thinking of these people like they are people.

        This lady is not a person. She is merely the spokesperson for a government bureaucracy. When you say “the CDC says…” you are getting the output of an agency. And, if you are to think of a government agency like a person, that person would be a psychopath. Devoid of normal human emotion, empathy, and understanding of individual needs. The bigger the agency, the more completely abstracted from humanity.

        The data didn’t change. The CDC just operates by its own rules and those rules are it’s only moral code. This lady is the mouth, but the rest of the body are scores and scores of bureaucrats, all living in a world that’s normal to them but to us is akin to madness.

        And their rules assume everyone is the same, everyone is equally dumb, and everyone should follow the same rules so they have to craft policy for 300 million. You know, for the good of society, or some shit.

      5. “In fact, it is entirely likely that their guidance on summer camps was the straw that broke the camel’s back.”

        ^This^ They finally went too far for all but the most dedicated leftists. When you’ve lost 70+% of the population, it’s over.

    10. “…morons here…”

      You could make a sizable reduction in the count by fucking off, lefty shit.

    11. There was never any “science” behind mask and lockdown mandates, you stupid fucking sheep. In fact the only data available on masks showed that they were not effective at preventing the spread of respiratory viruses. If you would take a break from mindlessly bleating and do some very basic research, you might be able to grasp reality for a brief moment.

      1. exactly right on. this was NEVER about the “science and data”, but always about controlling the masses. and it worked for a large majority of our neighbors. the one good thing about this whole thing is that it revealed the sheep. we can see them easily. i went to home depot today not wearing a mask and i was quite literally the only one in the store without a mask. there was no one telling me to don the face diaper, but i got some good stares from people. at checkout i saw a guy wearing a paint respirator — i kid you not. we truly are living among total morons.

      2. Facts are of no consequence to the bleating flock of mindless idiots.

    12. The issue has never been ‘they are changing their story’.

      The issue has always been that they come out and make pronouncements with 100% certainty and you, laity, just shut the fuck up and do what you’re told and no, we didn’t tell you something different last week SHUTUPSHUTUPSHUTUP!

      Instead of treating people like adults and laying out their case for their recommendations.

      You’ll notice that there’s not much difference in rate of cases or deaths across the country – but in places that didn’t push lockdowns and mask mandates with heavy enforcement are actually pretty freely social distancing, wearing masks, and working from home where possible while the states that did are seeing lot’s of public defiance?

      Because when you don’t force people to do something, not doing it is not a sign of rebellion.

      1. Yes. The “trust science” mantra is to blame for a lot of this. Rather than treating science as a set of evolving theories based on evolving data people are expected to treat all scientific theories as 100% proven facts which shalt not be questioned.

    13. You’re correct that of course as new data and analyses come in their recommendations can and should change.

      To me there’s a big problem with human nature that’s exploited by politicians on both side. People have a hard time assessing incomplete data and putting it into proper perspective. So people have all-or-nothing thinking:

      Either the scientists are right or they’re wrong.
      Either masks work or they don’t
      Either we ignore COVID or have a complete lockdown
      Either we do what scientists recommend or we don’t
      If we can save one life with an action we should definitely do it

      Reasonable people and leaders would realize there’s a lot of shades of gray and to be able to weigh the pros and cons of everything while keeping in mind that early data is not 0% accurate but not 100% accurate either.

  3. Timed to take the poor jobs report and gas shortage off the front page.

    1. Almost certainly this.

      1. I noticed SleepyJoe didn’t retract the mask mandate on federal property, but the press swooned when the could take a mask-less picture of him on the White House lawn.

        IMPEACH!

  4. Don’t worry if you don’t like the CDC recommendations, they’ll be changing them again in a couple of weeks. They’re not leaders, they’re followers, and if enough people say they’ve had enough of the bullshit they’ll stop issuing the bullshit.

    1. enough people

      Fuck minorities. Fuck landlords. They don’t win elec… I mean Science!

  5. Yes and dipshits with access to the internet are soooo much more informed.

    A year ago Reason was posting articles telling us that COVID was no worse than the common flu.

    1. And you think there was no Holocaust.

      1. Hey, relevant:

        https://twitter.com/LeonydusJohnson/status/1393210843236610048?s=19

        It’s wild that we have sitting members of Congress openly supporting Hamas and people are just shrugging their shoulders.

      2. There’s zero physical evidence dipshit. Only paid and coerced testimony.

        All evidence that soundly refutes the holocaust is illegal to share in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

        That’s ok with you. Who the fuck cares what you think?

        1. “There’s zero physical evidence dipshit…”

          There is, literally, tons and acres of evidence, Nazi shit.

          1. Bullshit fuckwit.

            Prison camps?
            Partial cremation?
            Zyklon B?
            Bletchley park decrypts?
            Fuckwitness testimony?

            You’re pathetic.

            1. You haven’t visited a death camp, have you?

              1. How could he visit a place that he doesn’t believe exists? It would be like a flat-earther trying to go to outer space.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrAdayUh6-4

              2. You mean the bogeyman house of horrors?

                Like any bogeyman story, it doesn’t stand scrutiny.

                Maybe that’s why it is ILLEGAL to share evidence that refutes the holocaust in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

                Does that fill you with confidence about the veracity of your cherished narrative?

                1. Fact, not narrative.

                  1. Not one shred of physical evidence to support the holocaust narrative.

                    Only the feeble mental gymnastics of bigotry and censorship of the physical physical evidence that refutes it.

            2. Just don’t.

              I am old enough to know people who were there.

              When I was a kid the older generation used to play checkers down at the courthouse. We’d hang around and the old guys would talk about things from their youth. A couple of times things came up that brought up war stories. A couple of the guys were there during the liberation of the camps. I saw the looks on their faces.

              These guys are from the deep south. There wasn’t a Jewish person within a hundred miles in any direction. Racist or anti-Semitic language was common. And I can guarantee you those old guys would punch you right in the face for even hinting at what you are trying to claim.

              When we moved up north, one of my friends had to go to Hebrew school all the time. His grandparents came over in the 1930s. They had plenty of family that died in the Holocaust. This was no friend of a friend’s story for them. These were family members.

              Claiming that something didn’t happen thousands of years ago like the history books say it did is one thing. Particularly if you can come up with some evidence. But proclaiming something that actually happened in living memory to be a fiction is downright stupid. It isn’t like there are 10 or 20 people who made such claims. There were literally tens of millions of people who saw it with their own eyes.

              1. How do you think they afforded that checkerboard? Jew gold, obviously.

              2. Don’t conflate being in a WW2 prison camp with being in “a holocaust”.

                The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.

                Fuckwitness Jews wrote books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens. This brings tears and shekels to every Jew.

                But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it over a game of checkers.

                And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.

              3. Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines?

                It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.

                Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support a holocaust narrative which there was also No mention of.

                Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their enigma machines?

                1. “…Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support a holocaust narrative which there was also No mention of…”

                  This is what a low 2-digit IQ finds to be compelling evidence:
                  “The Nazis didn’t brag much about murdering millions of Jews on their military comms, therefore there was no Holocaust!!!!!’
                  Is it any wonder this piece of shit is a laughing stock?

                2. For your entertainment, sevo the retarded is performing his feeble mental gymnastics to explain that Germans lied to themselves about prison camp information using their enigma code machines.

                  Has he convinced you? Hahaha what a fucking retard.

              4. Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.

                The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.

                The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.

                The story is told by one Jewish
                survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.

                They were stripped naked to leave no evidence.

                She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad.

                The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.

                Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.

                Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence oops. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.

                There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.

                There are aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.

                Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught to students.

                1. Dude, volumes and volumes of documented history refute your antisemitic narrative.

                  Good lord, man. What happened in your life to turn you into a Nazi sympathizer?!

                  1. Volumes of rhetoric. Not one shred of physical evidence to support the holocaust narrative.

                    Real physical evidence that refutes the holocaust narrative is a crime to share in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

                    Witness testimony is either paid or coerced and inadmissible in any court of law. As I’ve demonstrated witness tall tales are ridiculous.

                    1. “…As I’ve demonstrated witness tall tales are ridiculous…”

                      This is what a low 2-digit IQ finds to be compelling evidence:
                      “some of the witnesses exaggerated, therefore there was no holocaust!!!!’

                    2. Yes the jew fuckwitnesses lied.

              5. There is no point in arguing with an antisemite.

                1. You can run but you can’t argue.

              6. ^

            3. What could be more pathetic than wanting to join the losing side of world war two?

              How did you get this way, bobby? Not enough attention from your old man or what?

              -jcr

              1. Nobody here has ever refuted the evidence of logic and science that I have shared which soundly refutes any holocaust story .

                Some dipshit like you offered “ I saw pictures of burned bodies from the ovens” to which I replied “shouldn’t only ashes remain after cremation? “

                Retard Sevo stepped in to salvage the damage and said “ haven’t you heard of partial cremation, duh”

                To which I replied “no, why would anyone choose to make such a mess”

                And so the feeble mental gymnastics go, unchallenged usually.

                1. “Nobody here has ever refuted the evidence of logic and science that I have shared which soundly refutes any holocaust story .”

                  Scumbag piece of Nazi shit here claims that the Nazis didn’t brag about murdering millions of Jews, so they must not have done so.
                  Scumbag piece of Nazi shit’s IQ won’t thaw ice.

                  1. For your entertainment, sevo the retarded is performing his feeble mental gymnastics to explain that Germans lied to themselves about prison camp information using their enigma code machines.

                    Has he convinced you? Hahaha what a fucking retard.

                    1. no physical evidence? mmmmkay.
                      now do 9/11 was an inside job…

                    2. Demonstrate it fuckwit.

                    3. In your own words, what exactly is the physical evidence that proves millions of Jews were gassed to death with cyanide?

            4. There is, literally, tons and acres of evidence, Nazi shit.
              Make the world a measurably better and smarter place: Fuck off and die.

            5. See what has happened?

              None of you bigoted fuckwits have refuted any of the science or logic that I have presented to refute the holocaust.

              If you had a brain you would recognize that you lost the argument.

              As it stands, without one, you’ll just run away. Good riddance.

              1. “…None of you bigoted fuckwits have refuted any of the science or logic that I have presented to refute the holocaust…”

                You have never presented anything of the sort, Nazi shit.

                1. Along with not refuting the logic and science that I’ve presented to refute the holocaust narrative, and having no physical evidence to support it you’ve admitted that the Jew fuckwitnesses lied.

                  Let’s have a round of applause for sevo the retarded and his display of feeble mental gymnastics. Hahaha

    2. Did you and I read the same articles?

      1. You don’t have a point, do you?

        1. I don’t remember any articles comparing the rona to the flu. Plenty of commenters, sure, but no articles. To be fair, I don’t read as much here as I used to, so maybe I missed them.

  6. It might just be me, but I’m guessing that now that the teachers have been jabbed, they are complaining about wearing masks while at school.

    1. Maybe a tangent, or totally off topic, but I seriously wonder.

      The teacher’s were in the front of the line for shots. Before vulnerable older people, before people actually working with the public, and in many places their union gamed the system so a 70 year old couldn’t find an appointment because all the teachers had booked them up first. Only 30 year old congresswomen got their vaccines sooner than teachers.

      Then they don’t want to open schools. Or if they have to, only with kids 10 feet apart a couple days a week, or maybe 6 feet apart, etc etc.

      Why did they get the shots first? And after they got their shots first, why fight every effort to get kids back to school? Why is THIS the battle they are fighting? What’s the end game? Or is it just “gimme gimme gimme” and they’ll keep asking until someone slaps them down?

      If you didn’t like the union before, now you have all the ammunition you need to genuinely hate them.

    2. Jokes on you – they’re *still* not at school!

  7. “The CDC’s Ever-Shifting COVID-19 Advice Shows the Agency Is Ill-Suited To Decide Which Risks Are Acceptable”

    Here’s a crazy idea. What if the CDC simply gave facts … here me out, quite damn you, what if the CDC simply presented facts and let the people decide which risks were acceptable? Hey, a get the f’ away with that jacket, I’m not crazy, you are! [scuffling noises in the background]

    1. Yeah but then maskholes couldn’t emote how terrible the rest of us are to them. How we’re “terrorizing” them. I’m looking forward to asking the next masked person I see why they didn’t get vaccinated.

    2. Hey, a get the f’ away with that jacket, I’m not crazy, you are! [scuffling noises in the background]

      And all he wanted was a Pepsi . . .

      1. Why? Is he a racist boycotting Coke?

        1. Google punk rock song Institutionalized

      2. Just one Pepsi!

      3. And she wouldn’t give it to him.

    3. This 100%.

      Rendering advice is in direct conflict with the need to keep acquiring information and getting it out there. 2020 proved that the CDC needs to focus 100% on acquiring info about diseases and actually doing the public health work ‘in the gaps’ (eg testing people when they came into international airports). they failed at both of those because they spent all their time giving advice that changed all the time.

      the more I look at 2020, the clearer it is that:
      a)we need to understand again the role of militia in an emergency. Cuz otherwise, all you got is professional bureaucrats and everyone else expected to obey.

      b)CDC and public health should be restructured as an interstate compact. Trump was a total fuck up and a retarded asshole who is responsible for many deaths. CDC has become incompetent following DC’s rules/preferences. And neither are accountable to the first line folks in the state/local who actually have to do the responding. If the interstate compact form means that Newsome and Cuomo are exposed – well maybe you jackasses who live there should elect better state governments.

      1. Lol. Still trying to blame Trump.

        1. Just pointing out that an interstate compact is NOT part of the executive branch.

          I’m sure you personally believe that a narcissist with no management skills or knowledge or interest is exactly who should be in charge of CDC during a disease outbreak. The great thing about an interstate compact is that you can elect a narcissist with no skills or knowledge or interest in your state to interpret disease data from CDC – while other states can do things differently.

          You really don’t understand decentralization do you. You just want your flavor of dictator.

          1. Yes, a total tyrant, not like SleepyJoe!
            LOL at your hate.

          2. How is that different from what we have now? State health departments have access to the same data. They also can, and I assume do, collaborate.

            1. Interstate compact doesn’t mandate. They can only persuade. And those organizations are accountable directly to the states rather than to DC.

              They still require a congressional charter – and funding that is perfectly constitutional. But organizations like CDC, and FEMA, and even Education, etc are best thought of as interstate resources for the states not competitors on top of them who end up growing DC and taking authority from the states.

          3. I could sure go for $1.89 gas and a mean tweet right about now.

      2. Jfree

        This pandemic is different than anything we have experienced in our lifetimes. The CDC has become a lighting rod for public opinion in a time when we have all had our lives thrown into chaos.

        It is not surprising that anger and frustration are directed in their direction. Changing recommendations is not incompetence. This is an entirely new disease and a new public health challenge. The information coming in changes so the message has changed with it.

        The politicians are responsible for policy. They are the worst kind of people but they trot out the public health officials and they get the blame.

        Nobody wants to hear the terrible message that even the well meaning and best informed have had to deliver every day, at least until now, so they become the target for hatred.

        There is a lot of misinformation and false beliefs out there. That mixes into the bitter brew of this whole shitshow we are still dealing with.

        1. CDC and Fauci lying didn’t help matters.

          1. Being wrong is not the same thing as lying.

            Medicine is based on changing practice or advice based on new information. What is true today may be proven false tomorrow.

            1. He literally admitted on television he lied about the numbers required for herd immunity to coax more to get vaccinated.

            2. Fauci has admitted he’s lied twice — once about masks, and again about herd immunity.

              But I’m sure he’s telling the truth now!

            3. THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!

        2. I agree that the general public was surprised at the pandemic. My point is that the CDC shouldn’t have been – but it was. The CDC and WHO and other public health agencies have been dealing with pandemics since forever in the Third World.

          The Germans came up with PCR tests for that virus on Jan 13 – and provided that to the WHO for production of tests in 70 countries. The CDC took two extra weeks – for ‘it must be invented here’ and ‘we’ve gotta oneup the WHO in the 3rd world by creating a test for this virus that is also a floor wax and a dessert topping’ reasons. The CDC did not take this virus seriously as a potential US problem. They saw it as a bureaucratic/corruption opportunity at the beginning.

          Once borders started closing and screening/testing began at international airports, the CDC was AWOL for one whole month. Not only were they AWOL themselves, they explicitly prohibited WA from testing (not possible under interstate compact). All of this is just inexcusable. We haven’t even gotten to the masks – or the data collection failures – or the failures to correctly test the aircraft carrier peeps – or to do serological tests.

          I don’t have a problem with recommendations changing. That’s why I think interstate compact is the right organization format. States can figure out and be accountable for recommendations in conjunction with hospitals and local folks. CDC is not competent at even its more limited functions – so strip the expansive functions away and force them to be more limited and hold them accountable for that by someone different than the usual DC crowd.

  8. ‘YOU DO NOT NEED TO WEAR A FACEMASK’

    Okay, now maybe I’ll start watching the NFL again.

  9. https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1393292328404758533?s=19

    JUST IN – DHS issued an updated terrorism advisory that “violent extremists” may exploit easing of COVID restrictions “to conduct attacks against a broader range of targets after previous public capacity limits reduced opportunities for lethal attacks.”

    1. If you go to a concert, the terrorists win!

    2. What are the ‘violent extremists’ going to do? Scare everyone out of all the venues everywhere on the marginally slim chance they may be killed?

      1. Remember when they blamed reopening for mass shootings (and buried 2 incidents of Islamic terrorism…)?

        1. Pepperidge Farms remembers.

          1. But maybe Pepperidge Farms isn’t going to keep it Pepperidge Farms’ self.

        2. Remember “If you do X, the terrorists win!”?

    3. Why won’t you answer my questions Nardz?

      1. Flag for the asshole!

    4. That is not real.

        1. What is the internet law about being impossible to parody?

    5. Are they saying that social distancing reduces terrorism?

      1. I guess the thought is that if you outlaw the massive events where thousands of people show up, you don’t have juicy targets for the terrorists to hit. Sure, they could get a couple dozen people shooting up a grocery store, but when you have a pandemic where the news is slobbering over thousands of deaths per day, a would-be terrorist is going to wonder how much publicity they are going to be able to get.

    6. And common sense just issued an advisory that widespread wearing of masks will make it easier for terrorists and criminals to avoid detection and prosecution.

  10. The only science the CDC has used for the past 13 months is political science. There is no evidence that masks stop the spread of any virus, no evidence of asymptomatic transmission, and no evidence of outdoor transmission. The only reasonable recommendation is that people should stay home if they have symptoms, unless the symptoms are so severe that medical attention is needed.

    1. Facts.

  11. Well, we do have to cut spending somewhere to pay for basement bunker Biden’s next trillion giveaway.

  12. It doesn’t matter what the CDC says anymore since several business and people are saying they will continue with mask requirements until hell freezes over since they can’t trust those anti science insurrections to get vaccines

  13. Hmm

    https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1393280908581556224?s=19

    Breaking in the last hour: the Biden admin is sending millions in new aid to the Palestinians while refusing to commit to replenishing Israel’s Iron Dome missiles. [Pic]

    1. Funding terrorists is a long standing tradition.

    2. Apparently, “more jews should die” is now the regime’s official stance.

    3. I eagerly await Tony’s condemnation of the Biden administration as antisemetic. Hahahaha

    4. Wrong, but within normal parameters.

  14. “ But face masks, like vaccines, are not 100 percent effective, and there was no reason to think they would provide better protection than vaccination.”

    Heck, there is no reason to think face diaper Covid theater would work better than garlands of garlic cloves.

  15. To those businesses deciding to keep stupid mask rules around, know that we can shop elsewhere and will.

    1. Yep, saw a “must have mask” sign today, kept walking.

    2. This has always been true, and why people like Jay Inslee never gave us a choice.

  16. This is correct:

    https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1393335598606397444?s=19

    If you didn’t understand before yesterday that masks – not despite but BECAUSE OF their uselessness – were the linchpin of the pandemia, I suspect you do now.

    No masks, no epidemic.

  17. In CA, it’s:
    “Each individual should look at what the Newsom is requiring and toe the line!”

    1. What does your sponsor and the other losers at your 12 step meetings think?

      1. Asshole gets flag!

    2. Newsom made all his decisions based on data and science. Unless the data and science didn’t agree with what his political supporters (such as the teacher’s unions) wanted. And of course you have to realize data and science clearly show that Newsom’s businesses and dining and children’s education should have different rules than ordinary Californians.

  18. Sad to think that anyone wants to see the government in charge of protecting us from health risks. Governments are formed for the purpose of exercising force and violence.

    1. Right, retaliatory force. The function of government is to defend liberty.

  19. Who elected the CDC. I’ve never noticed any CDC offices on any of the election ballots I have seen over the decades. In this land of “consent of the governed”, we elect legislators who make the rules we live by, not some federal or state bureaucrat or “science” expert. That goes for these renegade governors, too. I have been living under the whims of my state governor for over a year which he has maintained by claiming ongoing emergency powers. Enough.

    1. The legislature checked out a long time ago.

    2. representative gov is dead

  20. Clicked on this only to say Fuck You Jacob.
    Here’s the story on your dream girl.
    https://greenwald.substack.com/p/liz-cheney-lied-about-her-role-in
    The first libertarian principle is the NAP Something you’ve obviously forgotten.

    1. No one here is defending Liz Cheney’s policies. The commentary surrounding her has been to lament how far Team Red has devolved into a pure cult of personality to Trump.

      1. Nah that’s not true, but what is true is how far off the reservation Cheney went because she assumed her warmonger daddy would protect her forever.

      2. Yeah, that is stupid. I get that the left is enjoying peddling that narrative, But it is never made much sense at all.

        I had a little idea of who this person was other than her name. But as soon as this all went down, she showed up on NBC News ABC News, CNN, and even MSNBC. They all gave her long-form platforms to talk about just how terrible her colleagues are.

        They were absolutely right to dump her from leadership. She confirmed it a thousand times over. You don’t need to invoke Trump’s name at all.

        Your party leaders are devoted to your party. Look at the Democrat leadership. You have Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. Two more spiteful and dishonest people have never walked the face of the Earth. But you know what they don’t do? They don’t go against the caucus. Either one of them would stab their mother in the back to win one political argument. But they are party first, country second people.

        Cheney is an establishment politician. The GOP is not fallen to a cult of personality around one person. They’re wavering in their fealty to the establishment.

        Not enough.

        We just saw an example of this with the Artemis program. NASA just picked SpaceX to build the moon lander. Congress did not appropriate enough money, so they did not pick two providers. Biden’s new administrator who is super establishment and plugged into big industry put the whole thing on hold as the establishment defense industry space contractors complained. Very quickly Congress in a bipartisan manner demanded that NASA pick two contractors within 30 days and spend $10 billion on it. $10 billion that is not appropriated. $10 million that makes it exactly the amount of money that gives Boeing the contract.

        This is who Liz Cheney is. This is who Chuck Schumer is. This is who Nancy Pelosi is. This is who Mitch McConnell is.

        The populist movement opposing them is from the left and the right. On the right it is sometimes a Trump associated voice, other times the more libertarian or classic conservative voices. On the left it is people like AOC and the squad. People like Bernie Sanders. Of course, the difference between left and right on this is that on the left they want to spend trillions of dollars whereas on the right they want to yank the country back towards a populist version of libertarian individualism.

        And what has happened? The populists have won. The establishment has been squeezed. But on the Democrats side, the establishment has figured out that they can form a coalition with their populists and get everything they want and more. That is not possible in the GOP.

        Hence, we have a classic establishment guy like Joe Biden heading and administration that seems to be living out a dare to be more extreme than AOC’s fear of dreams of a green New deal.

        1. Don’t bother. Anybody that disagrees is just a Trump cultist.

        2. Cyto spitting fire.

        3. “…You don’t need to invoke Trump’s name at all…”

          But she couldn’t STOP invoking Trump.

      3. So, you’re saying there are people defending Cheney’s policies, then.

        Because they’re saying having her in office is perfectly fine and she’s being removed not because she’s a godawful human being who has never seen a BSP she didn’t want waterboarded but because the GOP is turning into a Trump cult of personality.

        So warmongering and support of torture is fine – as long as you oppose Trump.

        Sounds like defense of Cheney’s policies to me.

    2. FYI, all this ties back in to the biggest story of 2021 that Reason mysteriously never covered, nor even mentioned as far as I can tell.

  21. What little faith I had in the CDC has evaporated.

  22. At some point, maybe we libertarians should have a discussion about what a truly libertarian public health system would look like. Would there even be a public health system in Libertopia?

    1. Who would pay for your twinkie habit.

    2. If you mean private companies offering health care to the public in a free market system, of course. If you mean the government being involved in any way, shape or form beyond prosecuting fraud, no. The function of government is to defend liberty, period.

      1. Sure if you want to deal with TB, Cholera, and malaria in a free market system. Actually the CDC was established to deal with malaria initially and it certainly did.

        1. So . . . you don’t think private parties can drain swamps?

          Because that’s how malaria was ‘dealt with’.

          You don’t think private parties could have discovered quinine? Because they did.

          You don’t think private parties could create mosquito nets and distribute them, free at point of use? Because they do.

          1. The CDC doesn’t directly deliver health care either. What they did was provide the science behind the effective measures and collect the data to identify where and how they should be employed.

            Quinine was known about since the early 1800s but we still had a malaria problem 100 years later. Nets have been around forever.
            We still have swamps but no malaria here. You need to know which swamps have that type of mosquito.

            DDT was around at the turn of the century but you still have to know where to spray it and how effective it is. You need to know if resistance develops which it has.

            So the proper role for public health is to collect and evaluate data on disease and put it out there. A pediatrician might want to know if there has been a local outbreak of measles cases. Someone seeing an unusual cluster of a rare cancer might want to report that so it can be investigated. That is how AIDS was discovered.

            The CDC can’t make laws or enforce them. Lawmakers do that.

          2. Also the swamp thing is a bit of a myth. We still have mosquito born diseases dengue, yellow fever, west Nile, and malaria is a huge problem in the world.

            Mosquitos are everywhere. Isn’t it a good idea to keep track of all that stuff so we can deal with it? We had a big outbreak of west Nile recently and where I was the city came around and sprayed. It went away.

        2. How counter-factual.

    3. There would be several. They you paid for.

      And they wouldn’t have the power to force people to do anything.

      1. They don’t.

    4. well there’s nothing the constitution authorizing any federal public health regulation, etc. this should be left as a state’s issue.

  23. The only agency suited to decide which risks are acceptable is yourself.

  24. We can debate about masks and lockdowns forever.

    What we do know is the vaccines we have here are remarkably effective.

    There is also data from Israel that they reduce viral load in asymptomatic and symptomatic individuals who had breakthrough infection x4 and thus should decrease the possibility of transmission. They are reporting around 30 new cases a day for the whole country with almost 60% fully vaccinated.

  25. The CDC’s recommendations have never been purely a matter of science.

    Let me guess – its all Trump’s fault because he fired someone from the CDC and Biden, despite being in office for a year, just can’t recover from that massive level of sabotage?

  26. They are a bunch of stupid cunts.

  27. Is there any body who know more details about this topic?

  28. FYI, when your statist bullshit loses Bill Maher, you’re on the downward slide.

  29. I live in a place where people will repeat CDC mask and social distancing guidelines as gospel, even as they completely disregard the agency’s recommendations for alcohol consumption (two drinks a day for men, one for women).

    1. As long as I’m not driving or drunk in public fuckin’ wit’ folks drinking more than the CDC recomends doesn’t affect other people.

      Not masking or social distancing could potentially affect others.

      1. Flag for the asshole!

  30. https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1393666444055879680?s=19

    Israel says your building also housed Hamas military assets. All of you were given warning to evacuate, which you did, before the place was destroyed. And AP last year released guidelines saying journalists shouldn’t focus on property destruction.

    “@AP
    AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt says he’s “shocked and horrified that the Israeli military would target and destroy the building housing AP’s bureau and other news organizations in Gaza.” Pruitt says AP is seeking information from the Israeli government. [Link]”

  31. The CDC is too conservative! The CDC is too lenient! Which is it? At the beginning, they didn’t want to be too cautious because they feared that if they recommended masks and closures and the pandemic did not start up they would look like Chicken Littles. Then they recommend masks and closures and all that and the people cried “Freedumb!”. So then they pulled back on their recommendations and Reason cried, “inconsistent! Letting politics creep in!”.

    Let’s face it, there is no way the CDC or any governing body can avoid politics. There is always the paradox at the heart of pandemic prevention – if you are super cautious and restrictive you shut it down. But when a pandemic is shut down the people think you were making it all up and exaggerating. It’s great and all that we have journalists delving into this but let’s not start with the assumption that the CDC has the luxury of operating in a non-politics zone.

    1. Politics fucks everything up.

    2. Agree in that the CDC is as much [or more] about political science as it is about medical science.

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  33. Yes, you don’t need to wear a mask if you are vaccinated, but the effect of the vaccine has a time limit, because COVID-19 is constantly changing, which is uncontrollable and you should pay attention to it
    https://www.orologilusso.eu/

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    https://wapexclusive.com ,union groups will claim they want to cut jobs, increase unemployment, and after careful political consideration the new boss will be the same as the old boss.

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