Coronavirus

Suggesting That Face Masks Are More Effective Than Vaccines, the CDC's Director Exemplifies the Propaganda That Discourages People From Wearing Them

Government officials think Americans can't handle the truth, an assumption that tends to backfire.

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In congressional testimony yesterday, Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), emphasized the value of face masks in preventing transmission of COVID-19. "These face masks are the most important, powerful public health tool we have," he told a Senate subcommittee while holding a cloth mask. "I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine."

As The New York Times notes, Donald Trump is notably less enthusiastic about face masks. Redfield "made a mistake" when he said masks provide better protection than vaccines, the president told reporters yesterday. While masks "may be effective," he said, a "vaccine is much more effective."

The Times presents that contrast as another example of the president's resistance to expert advice in dealing with COVID-19. "Trump Scorns His Own Scientists Over Virus Data," says the headline. But the truth is more complicated. Redfield, whose agency initially dismissed the value of face masks worn by the general public, is now erring in the opposite direction by exaggerating the strength of the evidence in favor of that practice. While I believe the evidence is sufficient to conclude that face masks are a reasonable precaution in indoor public places, the case is not as iron-clad as Redfield implies.

Trump's ambivalence about masks is reflected in the mixed messages he has been sending for months.

In a July 20 tweet, Trump called wearing a face mask in public "a patriotic duty." He amplified that message at a press briefing the next day. "We're asking everybody that when you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask," he said. "Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact. They'll have an effect. And we need everything we can get."

More recently, Trump has expressed skepticism about the effectiveness of face masks. "The concept of a mask is good," he said during an ABC-sponsored Q&A with undecided voters on Tuesday night, "But it also does—you're constantly touching it. You're touching your face. You're touching plates. There are people that don't think masks are good."

That objection to masks, like the concern that people will not wear them properly, does not address the basic question of how we know that masks, when used correctly, help prevent virus transmission. Nor does it address Redfield's claim about the relative effectiveness of masks vs. vaccines.

In late June, about three months after the CDC began recommending general mask wearing, six COVID-19 researchers published a systematic review and meta-analysis of the evidence supporting that practice in The Lancet. "Face mask use could result in a large reduction in risk of infection," they reported, although they expressed "low certainty" in that conclusion. They noted that "N95 or similar respirators" were more strongly associated with risk reduction than cloth masks of the sort that Redfield displayed at yesterday's Senate hearing. The evidence was limited to observational studies, since the authors found "no randomised controlled trials." But overall, they concluded, the data "suggest that wearing face masks protects people (both health-care workers and the general public) against infection."

In July, CDC spokesman Jason McDonald noted that "data are limited on the effectiveness of cloth face coverings" and "come primarily from laboratory studies." But it is reasonable to believe, based on the limited evidence, that a cloth mask is better than nothing when it comes to intercepting respiratory droplets emanating from a mask wearer or from other people. A mask need not be completely effective to do some good.

"Masks, depending on type, filter out the majority of viral particles, but not all," notes a study published by the Journal of General Internal Medicine in July. But even when masks do not prevent virus transmission, they may reduce the "dose of the virus for the mask-wearer," resulting in "more mild and asymptomatic infection manifestations." The CDC's current advice says "wearing masks can help communities slow the spread of COVID-19 when [masks are] worn consistently and correctly by a majority of people in public settings and when masks are used along with other preventive measures, including social distancing, frequent handwashing, and cleaning and disinfecting."

What about Redfield's suggestion that masks are better than vaccines? He said a vaccine might provoke an immune response in 70 percent of the people who receive it. "If I don't get an immune response, the vaccine is not going to protect me," he said. "This face mask will."

Given the variable effectiveness of different mask types and the limited overall evidence, that is clearly an overstatement. The way the Times frames the issue is even more misleading. "Vaccines are not 100 percent effective," it says, "whereas masks, worn properly, do what they are designed to do." Neither masks nor vaccines are "100 percent effective." The question is which strategy works better to control the epidemic: widespread mask wearing or widespread immunity created by a combination of vaccines and prior infection.

The honest answer is that we don't really know, since that comparison depends on how effective cloth face masks actually are and how effective vaccines prove to be. But we don't actually have to choose between those two strategies, and in practice we are pursuing both. Face masks are a tool to reduce virus transmission, especially to people who face the greatest risk from COVID-19, while we wait for vaccines that we hope will work well enough to make such precautions unnecessary.

Government officials tend to oversimplify science, ignoring nuances and glossing over uncertainty, in the interest of sending clear public health messages aimed at encouraging behavior they believe will reduce morbidity and mortality. But that approach can backfire when officials make statements that clearly go beyond what we actually know.

In July, when Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer wrote a New York Times op-ed piece urging Trump to impose a nationwide face mask mandate, she asserted that "wearing a mask has been proven to reduce the chance of spreading Covid-19 by about 70 percent"—a claim for which there is no scientific basis. Any mildly skeptical person who investigated Whitmer's factoid would have quickly discovered it is unsupportable. That hardly seems like a smart strategy for persuading people who are leery of face masks that wearing them is a good idea.

Likewise with Redfield's comparison of face masks and vaccines. What he should have said is that the evidence, while inconclusive, indicates that wearing face masks when you are indoors with strangers helps protect them, since you may be carrying the virus without realizing it, and may also protect you. Americans may bridle at blatant exaggerations, but that does not mean they can't handle the truth.

NEXT: Younger Judges Appear More Sympathetic to Executive Power

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  1. Government officials think Americans can’t handle the truth…

    They don’t like you to the point they are openly contemptuous of your very existence, they aren’t your friend, and they don’t have your best interests in mind.

    1. There is nothing a Progressive loves so much as forcing people to do something very publicly for very little reason. It demonstrates both moral authority and raw power. It is best if there is no demonstrable reason.
      The US accounts for about 1% of the plastics in the ocean. Most of that is associated with commercial fishing, lost nets weighing tons. The amount from plastic straws or grocery bags is so small as to be almost invisible, so of course there has to be a ban on them.
      Face masks are like the Scarlet Letter – a mark of sin forced upon the wearer.

      1. “How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?“

        Winston thought. “By making him suffer”, he said.

        “Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery is torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but MORE merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain.”

        I used to be able to cut that off at the “how can you tell” part, but we have progressed into the pain part of the paragraph.

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      2. And like the Scarlet Letter, the entire context must go beyond mere ideology into religion.

        If the human brain has tendencies to crave belief and superstition, and to resist self-reflection and reason, then I am sure that the emergence of strict progressive thinking in the past century is modern man’s new religion. And like any religious people, they have edicts that are beyond question, for them AND us. Of course, non-believers are not just different, they are at best misguided and in need of saving, and at worse heretical, threats to the faith, and deserving of death.

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      3. I only wear one when the choice is to not enter some location i need to or wear it so for those times I have one with “Mask of Compliance” written on the front. Its actually been refreshing to see how few people (at least here in Texas) say anything to those who choose to free breathe and how more and more are treating the mask of compliance as the propaganda tool it is. They still have one one but its often half off or at the very least not covering their nose.

        With each attempt to normalize the mask of compliance more are seeing its as over hyped BS. Unless you are a high risk group then
        the mask serves little more then to show your blind compliance.

        #NoFreeBreathersAllowed
        #CoverYourMouthSilenceYourOpinion

        1. You’re lucky. Here in the Peoples Republic of New Jersey, if I dared to walk into a building without a mask, the sheeple would react as though I pulled a gun on them.

          1. It’s amazing how utterly ignorant and stupid you radical right-wingnuts are. If brains were dynamite, you couldn’t blow your noses.

      4. Oh, that’s bullshit, JoannesDinkle! The fact is that the rules for mask-wearing and social distancing, and against large gatherings of people were put in place for a damned good reason: To control the spread of the Covid-19 virus pandemic. It takes only a minority of people who refuse to abide by these rules to put everybody else at risk.

        1. So you’ll be wearing one on your face for the rest of your life, right?

        2. All those authoritarian annoyances did was slightly spread transmission over time. It only takes a minority of ill informed sheep to enable government to deny the population its constitutional rights.

        3. “…It takes only a minority of people who refuse to abide by these rules to put everybody else at risk.”

          Your health is your concern. And in your particular case, I’d bee more than happy if you caught something nasty.

        4. The flu kills people every year, although in smaller numbers. You will wear your mask forever, then?
          If we had a 20 mph national speed limit, most motor vehicle deaths would be avoided, and this every year. So why not?

          1. My adult daughter who teaches gymnastics to preschoolers has lung issues. As you can imagine, she usually gets all kinds of respiratory crud constantly which exacerbates her issues. Since she’s been wearing a mask at work (the kids don’t have to) she hasn’t been sick once and she told me when this is over with that she’s going to continue wearing a mask at work. So, yeah, some people will be wearing masks after all of this. Of course, it’s their choice.

            1. “…Of course, it’s their choice.”

              Properly so.
              If you are prone to some illness, it behooves you to avoid exposure to it as best you can.
              By comparison, if you are a lefty shit like mapol, you can stuff your concern trolling up your ass.

            2. I have severe allergies and livelong asthma, live in an area where pollen counts run as high as 6000 at peak spring and where bullies are damned near as numerous as pollen. The mask went on in March and I will wear them every year from now on.

              Wishing your daughter the best of health. Her previous illnesses may have given her some partial or complete cross-immunity to COVID-19, per latest science.

            3. She’s wrong and so are you for believing her. Masks don’t block bacteria, pollen, or viruses.

        5. mapol, masks are actually perfectly efficient at blocking the spread of the virus or other aerosols, as the attached video demonstrates:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BslFT9cKZwc

        6. Actually, social distancing is pseudo-science too.

          What’s next? Emotional distancing?

          ‘Common sense’ virus control.

          All you’re doing is playing your part in a theatre play. It makes the actor and audience believe they’re virtuous; that they’re facing the adversity they crave.

          It’s cult like really.

    2. Government officials don’t know the truth and are full of shit if they pretend they do. Has anyone else read the mask studies that supposedly support their use? They are just guessing and making shit up. There is no good data on the effectiveness of the types of masks being used in the way they are being used.

      1. Yep. Remember how the #1 rule is DON’T TOUCH YOUR FACE?

        Just watch people in public. I do it too. The mask doesn’t belong so you’re ALWAYS FUCKING WITH IT.

        1. It rides up and restricts my periphery, so I’m constantly pulling it down my face so I can see. I have limited vision already, so i rely heavily on my periphery vision. Other times, i pull it away from my chin to get fresh air.

          Why am i doing this?!

        2. Every time I go to the store the guy touches his mask ten times then touches all my groceries. Unbelievable.

      2. From the New England Journal of Medicine.

        We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

        1. Exactly, it’s health theater, just like the DHS inspections at airports.

    3. Sorry to disagree with you, but they think they are superior and we are just that stupid.

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    5. Who even wears a mask? Pussies in the Media.

      Jesus how scared of life must you be to wear a mask in your car.

      1. That one makes me scratch my head. I’ll wear one in most stores most of the time just to avoid being harassed about it by employees. If not for them enforcing the governor’s stupid decree, I wouldn’t do that

      2. In all fairness, people in the media only wear masks when the camera is on. When the camera turns off, they yank those things off as fast as they can.

      3. FACVT: I would add to that, how about the people riding their bikes or jogging or walking down the street or hiking on a remote trail, etc etc etc? I’ve seen it all. It’s ridiculous.

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  2. or maybe it exemplifies the fact this is all bullshit.

    1. Here’s the thing they don’t even know the efficacy of masks against the flu. Something that’s been around for hundreds of years and studied endlessly they have no idea. They are just as clueless as the rest of us on this and can’t admit it.

      1. Actually, the DO know the effectiveness of both real masks, and of “cloth face coverings”. From the CDC web site, before the PC edits:
        begin CDC
        1. “If you are sick,” the CDC says, “you should wear a facemask when you are around other people (e.g., sharing a room or vehicle) and before you enter a healthcare provider’s office.” But “if you are NOT sick,” it adds, “you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask).
        2. A randomized trial of face masks involving about 7,700 hajj participants in Mecca had less promising results. At the end of the study, which was reported in The Lancet last year, the subjects who received masks—most of whom used them intermittently or not at all—were just as likely to have viral respiratory infections as those who did not. Last year was 2019; most people in C19 panicked 2020 wear their mask intermittently, or just plain wrong like over their mouth only, or hanging around their neck.
        3. New England Journal of Medicine 5/21/2020
        We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.
        End CDC
        The CDC bit above was before politics; now this is the new gospel:
        Oddly enough, for the real flu;
        Begin CDC
        Unvaccinated Asymptomatic Persons, Including Those at High Risk for Influenza Complications
        No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses
        End CDC
        But for the magical COVID;
        Begin CDC
        In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
        Cloth face coverings fashioned from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost can be used as an additional, voluntary public health measure.
        The cloth face coverings recommended are not surgical masks or N-95 respirators. Those are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for healthcare workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance.
        End CDC
        So “cloth face coverings” (note: not called masks) are a voluntary option where anti-social distancing is NOT feasible, per the CDC. Yet every fascist issuing an emergency order quotes them as REQUIRED.

        1. FACT: Thanks for those excerpts.

    2. Yep, like the post 9/11 security theater. Masks are a joke.

      1. And just like the 9/11 security theater you better get used to it, because it’s never going away!

        1. I know. TSA groped me really good in March before my first first-class flight ever. I would have been okay with it if it were a young woman and came with a complimentary lap dance.

        2. I’m going to post this below, but he essentially just admitted that the leftists intend the masks, social distancing, and banning of all large gatherings that aren’t BLM-associated to continue in perpetuity.

    3. The fact he wasn’t wearing a mask while pumping the effectiveness of mask wearing tells me he is full of shit.

  3. The science has said for years that masks have no effect on the spread of respiratory diseases.

    1. Exactly. Then suddenly a bunch of “studies” were quickly conducted to show that face diapers **might** be helpful; the MSM pounced on this, contorted it, and propagandized it.

    2. Not until it was a political necessity.

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  4. Who wants to find the older CDC study saying masks don’t help the average person, except as an emotional feel-good during a pandemic?

    1. And where they specifically point out that masks can provide a false sense of security?

      1. Face masks *should* be effective at some level given that they do inhibit droplet transmission. Their usage though is complicated by systemic factors such as how they are used, what type of mask is used, etc. So from a pure risk management perspective wearing masks is ok, imo. They don’t cost much to use and they *might* help. I think that should be the message. They are a potential buffer.

        However, there doesn’t seem to be any large data sets that have any sort of inflection point that correlates to mask mandates. Without that the mask mandates have little ground to stand on.

        1. Then encourage people to wear masks if they think they might be sick or if they are at elevated risk, or want to. Don’t act like not wearing a mask is going to kill everyone. The benefits of masks are marginal at best and total participation isn’t necessary for it to have some effect. We are well past being able to contain it and no one is claiming that masks stop all transmission.
          Masks are also not cost free for the user. Wearing a mask makes me very anxious because I feel like I can’t breathe. It also makes my allergies worse. After wearing a mask at work for more than an hour or so my lungs start to feel like shit. And my nose looks like I drink a pint of gin every day.

          1. The mask mandates have basically forced me out of the economy. Why would I go shopping or out to eat when there’s no joy in any of it? I do only what I have to and get back into a mask-free-zone ASAP.

            I’m sure that’s just what Jay Inslee’s hoping for. He REALLY needs that federal bailout, and since Trump extended UI, the only way he’s gonna get it is a Biden victory.

            Ironically, he might be turning the state red instead.

            1. The results of the the most recent primary would indicate this state is just going even deeper blue.

              I have my bug out bag ready for if they actually do attempt to secede after Trump’s victory in November.

              1. It would be a shock if we actually went for Trump, but a whole lot of people are really pissed off at Inslee and are looking forward to voting for Culp. I’m one of them.

            2. You’re in WA, too? I haven’t voted since the 2000s but registered to vote recently mainly to vote against Inslee, that stupid liar who said this would be for two weeks to “flatten the curve.”

              I also have been forced out of the economy. I can barely breathe through my nose when not wearing a mask; it’s always stuffed up. I’m not a mouth breather, and I can’t breath through my mouth with a mask on. Additionally, I had a near drowning experience when I was a kid, and I have a panic attack after a few minutes in a mask. With some practice, I’ve been able to extend it to 15 minutes–if I remove two of the three layers of a surgical mask. I’m pretty much toast for returning to the workforce, unless I’m allowed to wear a face shield, but new “studies” are throwing shade on them. As a consequence, I’ve been at home for months with little human interaction.

              1. I also had a near drowning experience as a kid and the mask did give me some anxieties. I am mostly over it now. Luckily I rarely have to wear a mask and average wearing one less than ten minutes a week.

                As Elvis said, there’s no joy in doing anything with a mask on so I don’t go out much.

              2. Yeah, our hospitalizations have been trending down basically since we were able to keep track, with a small uptick when we restarted elective procedures. (Surprise! Some people coming to the hospital for other reasons happen to have covid too!)

                Last I checked, in Clark County we have a 2.85% positive rate. 2.89% of our beds are occupied by people with covid. Yet we stay closed forever because Trump pulled the rug out from his federal bailout, and now he needs a Biden victory.

                1. State revenue is way down, which is why my contract as a recently-hired dean at a community college was not renewed. I am glad to be free of that job and the incessant white-male shaming and explicit endorsement of socialism by those ranting in the hallway. But I’m not going to be able to find other work, especially as long as Inslee has us locked down and masked up for a Biden victory. There’s no way this state would go for Trump, anyway. It hasn’t gone R since Reagan. I’m thinking of moving to South Dakota. Noem is my kind of governor. I’ll take ten below and sunny over 50 and dreary if I can be more free.

              3. I have ADD. It drives me fucken nuts. And so I’ve dropped out as well. Waiting this hysteria out.

                So that’s why I don’t care if Redfield chokes on his mask.

            3. There is no mandate where I am, but options for non-masked outings are getting limited. I try to steer as much business as possible to businesses that have not started requiring masks.

        2. I have no problem with people suggesting you wear a mask, or stay home when you are sick, or social distance.

          It’s when the men with guns get involved that I have a problem with it. The line (as always) is consent.

        3. Except droplet transmission as a main driver of outbreak is unclear.

          It’s looking like more and more it’s aerosol. If so, it’s game over for masks. And once again proves Sweden was right all along.

          1. Sweden AND South Dakota. They both have the same population density, incidentally.

            1. NEJM:

              https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1EoJkVn0xxmfBb6RNhasEb2XXM6E2Lr-p7YOMrvMFl9iMBwKPQLl96lIo

              “It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals. Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask, particularly in light of the worldwide mask shortage, but it is difficult to get clinicians to hear this message in the heat of the current crisis.”

              1. Masks pose health risks.

                https://www.sott.net/article/434290-Russel-Blaylock-Face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy

                “As for the scientific support for the use of face mask, a recent careful examination of the literature, in which 17 of the best studies were analyzed, concluded that, “None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection…”

                It is also instructive to know that until recently, the CDC did not recommend wearing a face mask or covering of any kind, unless a person was known to be infected, that is, until recently. Non-infected people need not wear a mask. When a person has TB we have them wear a mask, not the entire community of non-infected. The recommendations by the CDC and the WHO are not based on any studies of this virus and have never been used to contain any other virus pandemic or epidemic in history…. ”

                “…Now that we have established that there is no scientific evidence necessitating the wearing of a face mask for prevention, are there dangers to wearing a face mask, especially for long periods? Several studies have indeed found significant problems with wearing such a mask. This can vary from headaches, to increased airway resistance, carbon dioxide accumulation, to hypoxia, all the way to serious life-threatening complications.”

                  1. RIP my fellow compatriot Dr. Crowe.

                    https://theinfectiousmyth.com/coronavirus/Masks.php

                    1. Even the Japanese are in on it.

                      https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/

                    2. From CEBM:

                      “Despite the clear requirement to carry out further large, pragmatic trials a decade later, only six had been published: five in healthcare workers and one in pilgrims. 3 This recent crop of trials added 9,112 participants to the total randomised denominator of 13,259 and showed that masks alone have no significant effect in interrupting the spread of ILI or influenza in the general population, nor in healthcare workers.

                      The design of these twelve trials differed: viral circulation was usually variable; none had been conducted during a pandemic. Outcomes were defined and reported in seven different ways, making comparison difficult. It is debatable whether any of these results could be applied to the transmission of SARs-CoV-2. Only one randomised trial (n=569) included cloth masks. This trial found ILI rates were 13 times higher in Vietnamese hospital workers allocated to cloth masks compared to medical/surgical masks, RR 13.25, (95%CI 1.74 to 100.97) and over three times higher when compared to no masks, RR 3.49 (95%CI 1.00 to 12.17).”

                    3. From OSHA:

                      “Cloth face coverings do not constitute personal protective equipment.
                      Surgical masks are not considered to be PPE if they are being used solely to contain the respiratory droplets of the person wearing them (referred to by OSHA as “source control”).
                      Although employers are not required to provide their employees with cloth face coverings or surgical masks, the use of such face coverings and/or surgical masks would constitute part of “a control plan designed to address hazards from SARS-CoV-2” under the General Duty Clause.”

                      And I can go on with a dozen others.

                      Go fuck yourself you spreader of fear Redfield. Our health doctor here does stupid bull shit like that too running his mouth off like a cop waving masks. You too go suck on a bag rusty nails Arruda.

                1. I have severe allergies and lifelong asthma, live in an area where pollen counts run as high as 6000 at peak spring and where bullies are damned near as numerous as pollen. The mask went on in March and I will wear them every year from now on.

                  Wishing your daughter the best of health. Her previous illnesses may have given her some partial or complete cross-immunity to COVID-19, per latest science.

                  The catch in not needing masks unless you are known to be infected is this: asymptomatic carriers can still spread the virus and they are common. A local fast food manager self-reported a positive antibody test recently: she had been infected, never ran a temperature, and never had symptoms. Her mask kept her COVID out of your biscuits, guys and gals.

                  1. I know, this video shows how well masks work

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BslFT9cKZwc

    2. If this comment system will allow links one of them is here https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article .

  5. As he’s not wearing his mask and is instead waving it around like a prop.

    Actions speak louder than words. When Nancy Pelosi goes and gets her hair done without a mask, it tells you more than everything she says about the topic. Ditto Cuomo in NY and every other idiot “leader” who is caught breaking their own rules.

    1. Face Masks are so effective you only need it in close proximity.

  6. “That hardly seems like a smart strategy for persuading people who are leery of face masks that wearing them is a good idea.”

    Well we are talking about Whitmer who is dumb as a stump. But she’s a freaking genius compared to most democrats.

    Anyway just get on with your life. Wear a mask, don’t wear it, but fucking quit whining.

    1. “Anyway just get on with your life. Wear a mask, don’t wear it”

      You must not live in a blue state. You don’t wear a mask in a liberal city, and you’ll be shamed, ridiculed, even physically attacked.

      1. This a thousand times. It’s unreal how much social media shaming I’ve seen of people who dare to go out and about.

        Maryland has entered Stage III, but not Montgomery County. Oh no, they’re not even thinking about a timetable, not even with numbers like this:

        https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/covid19/data/#dashboard

        1. 3% positive rate! Don’t you know how exponentials work? If you open now, in 6 days 128% of the population will be infected!

          1. 3% positive rate! Don’t you know how exponentials work? If you open now, in 6 days 128% of the population will be infected! DEAD!

        2. I still have yet to have anyone hassle me about not wearing a mask. I have to at work and I go through the motions at the grocery store when I have to, but I’ll be damned if I contribute to it becoming a normal thing.

          1. FACT: I, also, will not contribute.

    2. Hell yeah!

  7. Masks are more effective than a vaccine. Which is why every year people get a flu shot instead of wearing a mask during flu season.

    1. I think that’s going to change. I think from now on people will get vaccinated AND wear a mask.

      The error is thinking that there can only be ONE solution. Maybe vaccines AND masks are the way to go.

      1. “Maybe vaccines AND masks are the way to go.”

        If you want a tame, obedient, and fearful community, sure

        1. He’s a leftist. That’s exactly what he wants.

      2. Dr Fauci himself said this fall would be great experiment to see if we wear mask every year now. I’m sure the results will be a yes always wear a mask.
        do i need a mask for walking through a grocery store where my odds of catching anything are almost nill from casually passing by another person NO. However riding in a packed subway I would wear a mask during times like this but not every year. its like set belts and air bags. belts are not needed for anything below 25 mph and air bags will cause more damage to a person in those low speed accidents but over that speed they do help. Typical government there is always only one solution for different problems

      3. “The error is thinking that there can only be ONE solution. Maybe vaccines AND masks are the way to go.”

        What are you thoughts on buttplugs?

  8. A mask need not be completely effective to do some good.

    So then, would you say a mask doesn’t need to be completely harmful to do some harm? If not, please rectify that with the above.

    1. Plenty of data that strongly suggests that masks may be effective, but NO DATA suggesting they’re in any way harmful.

        1. There’s lots of literature in developmental psychology that shows that if you occlude parts or the entirety of the human face from infants you harm their social and psychological well being.

          A significant portion of linguistics is enhanced by people’s ability to observe and visualize how sounds and words are created. It’s not necessary to see someone’s mouth to figure out how to speak like them but you are significantly retarding the process, thereby doing harm, in occluding the mouth unnecessarily.

          Speaking in front of a group can/does require a louder voice with clearer elocution. Masks not only require even greater demands on the speaker to generate the same volume, they intrinsically degrade clarity. Again, there’s plenty of psychological data that shows that people who wear masks and people who’s messages are delivered through filters like a mask are significantly disadvantaged than those who aren’t.

          1. I think people are way underestimating the social and psychological damage all of this is doing. That is really going to be the worst long term effect. Especially on younger children if this shit keeps up for very long. Masking your children and teaching them to fear everyone as a potential disease threat is just awful.

            1. Like they refused to consider the trade offs of the lockdowns.

              And yes. This to both comments.

              I truly loathe authorities.

            2. Yep. It won’t turn off like a lightswitch when somebody in government says “All clear.”

              Hell, if Trump is the one who says it, they might lock themselves down harder.

      1. All I hear is you saying: “If we stop collecting data on COVID it will stop doing harm.” because you sure as hell weren’t answering my question and you’re actively refuting the context in which McDonald made his statement.

      2. They impair breathing, prevent people from seeing your face, and are medically unnecessary implements of fear. But aside from that the government is not allowed to randomly impose upon people just because it doesn’t meet some arbitrary level of harm.

        1. Gee, what harm can come from making people constantly fearful and compliant?

      3. People are hurting themselves walking down stairs because they can’t see their feet. Here’s one example:

        https://www.narcity.com/news/ca/on/toronto/go-train-riders-keep-falling-down-the-stairs-because-they-cant-see-with-masks-on

      4. “strongly suggests”?
        “may be”?

        Weasel words.

        “but NO DATA suggesting they’re in any way harmful.”

        There sure are anecdotes, like that guy in driving ALONE wearning his N95 and passed out due to lack of oxygen and crashed his car.

        Search the web and limit results to before 2020 and exclude the term “COVID” and you’ll find a slew of articles showing the side-effects of wearing masks. Here are some things N95 masks negatively effect according to one study:

        respiration
        thermal equilibrium
        vision
        communication
        feelings of well-being
        personal procedures such as eating and sneezing
        other equipment

        There is a great deal of wearer variability. Some wearers can tolerate respirator high inspiratory or expiratory resistance or pressure levels, while others cannot. Some wearers are much more anxious about wearing respirators than others. Some wearers can tolerate hot, humid conditions inside respirators, whereas others cannot. Because of this variability, each wearer must be treated as an individual.

        Another study found that:

        Ventilation, cardiopulmonary exercise capacity and comfort are reduced by surgical masks and highly impaired by FFP2/N95 face masks in healthy individuals. These data are important for recommendations on wearing face masks at work or during physical exercise.

      5. I am healthy and in good physical shape, walking 3-4 miles per day and biking another 5, 7 days a week.

        I had a rash that I get when I have a virus. As a result I self-quarantined and wore a mask around the house.

        I found that simply going up 2 flights of stairs with the mask on made me breathe very hard, more than a brisk walk. Why? The mask limits the dispersiion of CO2 from the space in front of your face, so you breathe in a high CO2 gas, not some 400 ppm, but more like 5-10% CO2. CO2 at that level inhibits respiration so your body responds by making you breathe harder. It wasn’t a serious problem for me, although I had to stop and catch my breath, but someone with breathing difficulties would be in big trouble, potentially feinting or worse.

        So f those masks – unless you have a bug.

      6. Here is a study that finds that,

        “The rates of all infection outcomes were
        highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI
        statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm
        (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07)
        compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks
        also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with
        the control arm.:”

        I would say that is harm.

        https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm

  9. Reason pimping face diapers after all the research pre-COVID showed them to be ineffective in the general population. So ineffective Fauci said not to wear them.

  10. “Trump Scorns His Own Scientists Over Virus Data,”

    Because according to the media, Scientists are mystical acolytes from whom we receive immutable truths and wisdom. We ignore Scientists at our peril. The Scientists have spoken, therefore the Science is settled. So Sayeth the Scientist.

    1. *pantomimes donning nitrile gloves*
      Quod erat demonstratum!

      1. LOL! If I only read the articles and not the comments, I would lose my ever-loving mind.

    2. Actual scientists doing actual research probably spend more time being wrong than being right, overall.

      1. To paraphrase Edison, science is finding lots of ways not to do something in order find the way that works. (aka process of elimination)

    3. Trump is right and these so-called scientists are wrong. Of course the conventional media bows down to ‘experts’ who support their narrative.

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  12. fuck you, CDC guy w/no mask on.

    1. You forgot about the Congressional intern whose car he rode in on. Fuck that guy too.

      1. You forgot about the Congressional intern whose car he rode in on. Fucked that guy too.

        FIFY

  13. It may well be “reasonable to believe” that cheap masks are better than nothing. That doesn’t mean there’s any actual evidence supporting the claim. It is also “reasonable to believe” that there are unintended consequences to mask-wearing that could outweigh their benefits.

  14. The whole “masks work, you fucking science denier!” argument would work a little better if people wearing them could otherwise go about their business. But the politicians get a woody every time they hear the word “lockdown”. Fuck, even when a vaccine is administered I’ll bet they still come up with some fucking excuse to keep small businesses shuttered.

    1. It will be because the vaccine doesn’t work and/or people aren’t taking it.

    2. Small business owners tend to be individualistic, and vote Republican.
      I can’t imagine why a fascist would want them to go broke.

    3. Redfield implied in his testimony that that’s the plan.

  15. Science shmience. Only politics matter.

    1. Exactly, Science. Our numbers are the same after the face mask mandate. Shouldn’t it have dropped? I’m sure there’s a great non political “science” reason for this.

      1. Let me add it’s been 2 months on the mandate so I’d expect results by now.

        1. fLaTtEn ThE cUrVe!11

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    2. That’s right sarcasmic, lick those boots until you can see your reflection in them you subservient piece of spineless shit.

  16. Next time I’m being pressured into getting a flu shot, I’ll just point to the mask.

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  18. First they say masks aren’t effective. Then they say that was a noble lie to save resources for first responders. Then they mandate masks.

    I know the media is so brilliant they can choose the right liar they’re supposed to believe, but the average joe actually wants someone who tells the truth, and doesn’t know how to handle that.

    This is where libertarianism is superior, because it allows for diversity of thought translating into diversity of action, which is the most important kind of diversity (all other forms of diversity can hardly matter if they all choose to think and act the same anyway). By having multiple populations making their own rules voluntarily, the chance of a population increases, perpetuating the species.

    In fact, a top-down-one-size-fits-all policy, actually followed by all people, has the possibility, when wrong, to destroy the human race, since it eradicates diversity.

    And it’s shocking to me how many proponents of diversity can’t handle it unless there’s some racial, sexual, gender, etc. excuse, but are otherwise expecting everyone else to fall in lockstep. That’s way to racist for my taste.

    1. Brian…Had I read your comment earlier, I wouldn’t have made mine.

      Good comment.

    2. This is where libertarianism is superior, because it allows for diversity of thought

      Other than libertarians supporting mask mandates, faggot cake baking mandates, arbitrary church closure mandates, race riots, political violence, the murder of cops…

  19. Neither masks nor vaccines are “100 percent effective.”

    In a car crash neither throw pillows nor airbags are 100% effective.

    1. I’d take the throw pillow in a car accident over the mask in a COVID ward. Downgrade the pillow to a Buddy Jesus bobble head and we’ll talk.

    2. COVID is 125% effective at killing people, so masks and/or vaccines are going to have to be at least 110% effective if we’re ever going to reach herd immunity.

    3. at certain speeds airbags cause more harm to the person than at others. Same with mask is there a benifit yes in large enclosed groups like on subways, otherwise forget it

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  21. “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against COVID than when I take a COVID vaccine.”

    This man should be on trial for crimes against humanity.

    1. He didn’t explicitly claim it. He went so far as to say it.

    2. Given that there is no COVID vaccine at this time, the comparison is absolutely meaningless. He should be excoriated for this alone.

      1. Excoriated… eviscerated… either would satisfy my need to see him suffer.

        Preferably they could do it like in a Saw movie where him and Fauci are hooked up to the same device that only one of them can disarm by pulling the other through some sharp spinning blades.

      2. What makes you think there isn’t? /Qanon

    3. Wearing a mask doesn’t protect the wearer.
      Trump was misinformed that the virus is passed through the air. If that were true, masks wouldn’t protect anyone. Particle size, filter, blah blah blah
      Wash yer fucking hands, don’t pick your nose.

  22. Propaganda to wear a mask? For what purpose? What is the mask conspiracy all about?

    Did you ever think maybe he knows something you don’t about coronaviruses, like since there is no vaccine for the common cold, there may not be one for this more deadly engineered cousin?

    Hang on to your fucking masks.

    1. “Fucking masks”? There are sex masks now?

      1. What’s your point fuckface?

        1. Why aren’t you willing to look at the evidence?

          1. Then he might have to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened.

            1. You can’t provide a single piece of physical evidence of the holocaust.

              Your ignorance is partially caused by the fact that objective forensic analysis is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

              It part of your brainwashing.

              1. Fuck off, Nazi

              2. Man, you are really out there in crazytown. There are still a few survivors around, and I knew a couple back in the 70’s. Not to mention the millions of documents, photos, eye-witness accounts, and surviving camps.

                1. “Survivor“ testimony is either paid, coerced or contradictory.

                  In fact the entire false narrative is made up of impossible tales, omissions and contradictions.

                  Physical evidence would consist of a plausible cyanide gas delivery system, for example.

                  Not even one photo of that exists on record at Nuremberg. Just contradictory and impossible paid and coerced testimony.

        2. “What’s your point fuckface?”

          Fuck off, Nazi.

          1. How’s that partial cremation working for you retardo?

    2. this more deadly engineered cousin

      Misek’s mask is slipping…

      His being a face-diaper fanboy is all because of a conspiracy to engineer a death virus by the JOOOOOOS! It’s the Reverse-Holocaust revenge story that nobody could have seen coming!

    3. “What is the mask conspiracy all about?”

      It’s a constant reminder that SOMETHING IS WRONG AND YOU MUST BE SCARED. Without the masks, why, people might forget all about the “pandemic” that’s killing people older than life expectancy and with more co-morbidities than the average person who dies.

      1. If you’re parents knew that was your agenda, they’d kick you out of their basement and take you out of their will.

        1. Fuck off, Nazi

          1. Partial cremation retardo

            1. Fuck off, Nazi.

    4. you can have mine.

    5. The “conspiracy theory” canard gets really tiresome.
      It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a bunch of people desperate to be seen to be doing something.
      None of this requires a conspiracy. It’s just people responding to incentives and taking opportunities. And politicians being craven idiots like they always are.

      1. You say there is no conspiracy.

        If you recognize that mask wearing is what people do, to do something, to save lives why do you have a problem with being told you must in public?

        There are many other, lawful inconveniences That protect others, that you must comply with To participate in society.

        If you say fuck them all, you’re probably already in jail.

        1. Fuck off, Nazi

  23. Given that no effective vaccine has EVER been developed for any other Coronavirus – I cannot help but wonder how realistic it is to expect an effective vaccine for this new virus. This is not to say the drug companies should give up, but I think it’s perhaps more important for medical scientists and doctors to work on effective treatments for COVID-19.

  24. These same folks who claimed that “Masks are worthless” are now claiming that “Masks are essential.” I don’t have the technical wherewithal to know which of these statements is true…But I do know that one of these statements is a lie, and that people who made them are liars.

    Why does the media still give credence to statements made by Redfield and Fauci?

  25. What do you have to do to lose your job? This dude is the “Director” of the CDC. Face masks better than a vaccine? What kind of face mask? A thin gaiter? N-95? Gas mask? Home made cloth mask? Completely insane.

    1. Science!

  26. I think this is another example of pillaring the person who is really trying to help people. Face masks are a relatively simple way to reduce infections. The action of many people using masks compounds the effectiveness. We have this tool right now to help us bridge to a better tool an effective vaccine. If you really listen you hear that vaccines are still a ways off. First to develop a truly effective vaccine. Most of the upcoming vaccines have limited effectiveness. Second to get a supply to do vaccination. Third to get out the logistic of vaccinating a population. Part of the problem here is that the people who have the knowledge are being overridden by an incompetent President who only want a headline for his reelection.

    1. No more believable than a Ford salesman driving a Chevrolet.
      Too stupid to wear a mask while boasting of the importance of wearing a mask at all times.

    2. example of pillaring

      You mean pillorying? If only this were an example of misspelling and not an example of using words you have heard but you don’t understand while referencing science you have read about but don’t understand. The rest of the bullshit you wrote makes that glaringly apparent. Contract tracing done constitutionally could make a difference, but the masks are theater. People who are not sick should not be forced to do anything. If what the president does or doesn’t say or do reinforces that idea, bully for him.

    3. Prior to yesterday, someone who argued unironically that a face diaper is more effective than a vaccine for preventing a virus would have been laughed at as an ignoramus. It was, after all, one of the reasons why the goal posts got shifted to “no opening of society at all until a vaccine is developed” by the Soft-Ass Bitch Brigade.

      But because this is supposedly a Man of I Fucking Love Science, all of a sudden it’s a stone-cold fact? GTFO here with that nonsense.

    4. “I think this is another example of pillaring the person who is really trying to help people.”

      I think you’re an example of being full of shit.

    5. Science.

      Our county has required face masks since March or April. We have had an increase of cases.

      Why not try to go for herd immunity? The answer I hear is that it can kill people and we don’t know the long term extent of the illness. We need to study it more.

      Yet, I haven’t seen a study of kids wearing masks all day, every day and the long term effects. But we let them do it. Where’s the science.

      I don’t respect people who say wearing a mask is simple.

    6. “Face masks are a relatively simple way to reduce infections.”

      Have any evidence to back this statement up? Your entire argument is based on superstition.

  27. Look, The NY Times has been a collection of fear-mongering attention whores for decades, with a severe ramp-up in 2016. That’s a given. And the same has always gone for politicians.

    The real shame is the more recent decline of national institutions that at least used to pretend to hold apolitical positions. Now they are represented by camera-hungry cunts.

    If nothing else, this engineered panic-demic has pushed all trust completely out of the population, except for severe tribal allegiance. Now who would benefit from that?

  28. Which vaccines are more effective than masks exactly? The Astrazeneca vax that is now paused to to a participant’s “severe reaction”?

    If masks work then why hasn’t COVID been eradicated everywhere there is a mask mandate?

    What if the truth that we are afraid “American’s can’t handle” is that COVID is treatable and non-lethal to over 99% of the population, and that these lockdown measures that have impaired our freedoms and cratered our economy are far worse?

    1. Like the leaders of Nashville, they will simply bury it that truth.

    2. Everywhere masks are mandated infection rates rise.

      Including here in Quebec.

      Either these people are up to something or they’re just that incompetent and stupid.

      Explain how several countries don’t mandate them and do fine?

      I’ve just about had enough of these ham slime balls.

  29. I get the idea that they did not want to panic people and have a run on facemasks. Kind of a Catch 22, perhaps they chose poorly. Tell people to wear masks, there’s a run on masks, supplies drop, and critical medical facilities can’t get them when they need them. Look at the toilet paper craziness. Individuals can be intelligent and rational. Larger groups? Irrational behavior spreads.

  30. Unbelievable. This Redfield guy is actually NOT following the science.

    100 years of studies show masks are full of shit including those from OSHA, Center for Evidence Best Medicine, BMJ and NEMJ. Even a recent CDC report I read pretty much (unwittingly) showed in their tables masks show no measurable benefit.

    What the fuck is going on? Why are they peddling this pseudoscience?

    1. I won’t argue that maybe facemasks (pretty much the kind that most people are wearing these days) are not the most perfect protection, definitely not 100% or even close. But if someone in your vicinity is coughing or sneezing, expelling liquid matter from their mouth and nose out into the air, perhaps having something between your mouth and what they’re expelling seems like a good idea?

      1. That is what our arms are for. My concern with masks is that we might not cough or sneeze into our arms, and social distancing has taken a back seat to masks.

        1. Social distancing is pseudoscience too. But one thing at a time.

      2. If I could get a (Canadian) quarter every time I hear this argument.

        Sooooo, it’s better to have people sneeze in a mask and risk bacterial infection? Most people sneeze into their arms or a tissue.

        And really, how many times has it ever happened someone coughed in your face? Literally never happened to me.

        This is not a good excuse to wear a mask. If that’s your standard then why not just stop being human and wear it all the time?

      3. But if someone in your vicinity is coughing or sneezing, expelling liquid matter from their mouth and nose out into the air, perhaps having something between your mouth and what they’re expelling seems like a good idea?

        Only if you jam your mouth into theirs and try to drink the fluids that come out, which most human beings are pretty well conditioned by nature not to fucking do. And if the virus is airborne it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever because the diameter of a virus is orders of magnitude smaller than the gaps in the fabric or paper mask on your face. Wearing a mask to keep a virus from entering your nose is like putting up a chainlink fence to keep out bees.

    2. CDC NIH and surgeon general are bureaucratic institutions, part of the liberal deep state in the US federal government. They’re aligned with the CCP and WHO. They do not want this crisis solved.

  31. What’s the point here? Don’t wear a mask? If so, read your comments…success!
    We are in the middle of a brand new pandemic that is so young that 100% definitively clear answers on solutions are a number of months away. But here is what we know without knowing exact numbers…masks work. Here is one suggested study result:

    “In Washington, where baseline transmission is much less intense, 80% adoption of such masks could reduce mortality by 24–65% (and peak deaths 15–69%), compared to 2–9% mortality reduction in New York (peak death reduction 9–18%). Our results suggest use of face masks by the general public is potentially of high value in curtailing community transmission and the burden of the pandemic.”

    https://www.npr.org/2020/07/03/886905055/widespread-use-of-face-masks-could-save-tens-of-thousands-of-lives-models-projec

    That results in a strong possibility that 80% use of masks might save about 25000 lives nationally. Is that good enough for you, Jacob? Or do you want to wait for more studies to simply wear such a burdensome thing…a mask.

    Do you wear a mask? Do you stay away from large gatherings where people don’t wear masks? What do you encourage your elderly parent to do?

    Get off the fence. Make a decision.

    1. Sigh. You do realize the study mention in this article is simply taking a computer model and plugging in the assumption that masks work; then extrapolating results. This computer model is not a scientific study. The assumption that masks works is part of the model!

      It’s this type of ignorance that makes it hard to have factual, reason-based conversations in our country. We’re all so driven by fear and emotion, with little ability to understand math and science; let alone reason and logic.

      It’s also clear that the media is either just as ignorant or purposefully pushing faux-science propaganda. They publish these types of stories pretending that this is evidence and SCIENCE, when it’s nothing of the sort.

      Learn some critical thinking skills and stop being a useful idiot.

      1. When you tell the model masks work, the model tells YOU masks work.

        SCIENCE!

    2. LMAO–your dumb ass is seriously citing an article that uses models, not actual evidence and in contravention of decades of studies, to make its case?

    3. Jackand Ace
      September.17.2020 at 5:25 pm
      “What’s the point here?…”

      Still waiting for how ‘fighting c/c’ is supposed to help with the fires, lefty shit.

    4. Jackand Ace
      September.17.2020 at 5:25 pm
      “What’s the point here?…”

      The point is, you are still:
      Full.
      Of.
      Shit.
      Over on that other thread, I asked you to please answer in specifics what actions regarding ‘fighting climate change’ would have any effect regarding the CA wild fires and when.
      As a lefty ignoramus, of course you had none, because there are none; that is lefty shit sloganeering at best or outright lying more likely.
      Again, you prove it here, spouting bullshit from some lefty site, hoping that we, here, are as stupid as you and will buy it.
      Fuck off and die, you pathetic piece of lefty shit.

  32. In March, the CDC, the WHO, the US Surgeon General, and Dr. Anthony Fauci agreed– masks worn by members of the general public did not inhibit the spread of respiratory viruses, and when worn improperly, can be dangerous.

    That represents the sum total of knowledge on the matter from the discovery of viruses until that point in time. It’s still that way now. Science is not a list of facts, but a process, and it’s not a fast process. Paradigm shifts don’t occur after a few months! It takes time for a study to go through the important process of publication, criticism, adjustment, revision, re-publication, repetition by other researchers, more criticism, more revision… on and on. Even then, it’s only one study, and there would have to be enough of them to counterweight all of the existing, validated studies that have shown the opposite. It takes a lot of solid research to overturn an existing, well-supported, widely-accepted theory, and it doesn’t happen in the “fog of war” of a pandemic when that’s the very thing they are trying to study. It doesn’t happen within six months.

    That means the best data we have on the topic is the stuff that WHO and CDC told us half a year ago: Masks don’t help against respiratory viruses, and when worn incorrectly (as roughly 100% of laypeople will do) can be risky, increasing the odds both of the disease they are meant to prevent and also bacterial respiratory infections (that will no doubt be misdiagnosed as COVID).

    The CDC is a part of the government, and all parts of the government are inherently political. Still, in normal life, it’s just funded each year and allowed to do as it will, with the powers that be largely unconcerned about it.

    When a pandemic hits, though, the media whip people into a lather with their fear porn, and ever since FDR, Americans have been trained to reflexively think of the government as the solver of all problems. The only reason any problems still exist in the world, they think, is because governments lack the will to fix them.

    So now the people are terrified, and they demand the government “do something.” Governments are only too glad to oblige (it’s why the government trains them to think that way in the first place), especially when they’re given a blank check to trample all over people’s freedom and be praised for it. Suddenly the CDC is called upon by the politicians that fund it to give recommendations that will give them cover to let them “do something” to the people… er, “for” the people. The CDC can’t actually impose the things it suggests, but it allows pols to say, “Hey, I didn’t come up with that idea… it was the CDC’s recommendation, and they’re the experts!”

    Those would be the experts who said masks don’t work a few months ago, before the full weight of political demands from politicians landed, at right about the time that they did an about-face on the issue in the name of “science,” only science doesn’t work that way. The scientific advice was given in March; the political advice was given in April and beyond, after people began demanding the government “do something.”

    The mask mandates are the “something.”

    It’s a neat system… the CDC is blameless ’cause all they did is issue non-binding recommendations, and politicians (and businesses, like Wal-Mart, who choose to go above and beyond the jurisdictions of the various stores) are blameless because they’re just following the “expert” recommendations. The tyranny two-step!

    1. The mask mandates came about as businesses were allowed to open. That “something” was the lock down but pressure to open up changed that “something” to masks.

    1. Low transmission is not good enough. It has to be no transmission throughout the whole world. Then we can think about freeing our faces outside of flu season.

  33. A few days before Redfield’s statement, the CDC warned people that wearing a mask to protect them from smoke from wildfires doesn’t work because the smoke particles are so small that they will penetrate the mask. I don’t question this. But then Redfield claims that a mask will protect him from coronavirus particles that are MUCH SMALLER than smoke particles. This defies logic.

  34. Government officials tend to oversimplify science, ignoring nuances and glossing over uncertainty

    Apparently, so do erstwhile journalists. Trump’s quoted statements aren’t inconsistent. They are nuanced you half wit. Trump is prioritizing nuance over a clear message. That might be his problem. But according to you, there should be more nuance. Which is it? I can handle nuance, bleach drinker. Can the media?

  35. I am highly vulnerable. I won’t be able to live normally until the virus is mostly gone because the community consists of people who are recovered (anti-bodies) and people who are robust (t-cells). The people wearing masks are available to extend the pandemic. .gee, thanks.

  36. Screw the masks and the distancing and the isolation. You have an immune system that will protect you better than any of this forced anti-social crap. If your immune system is compromised then stay out of harms way. The “expert know nothings” are not trying to keep you from getting sick from the virus; they want to keep you from contacting the virus and getting immunity. If too many people get natural immunity, then their fake vaccines will not be needed. There goes a few hundred billion dollars out of Gates’s and Pharma’s ultra greedy pockets. The money is far more important than whether you live or die from the virus or the poisonous vaccines. The people don’t matter and never will unless they can grind you down to a nub to get money from you.

  37. This seems emotional for a lot of people. I get that.

    For me having lived in the medical world where we just did that when indicated it is no big deal. Look the surgeons and medicals were not wrong for 120 years you just have to understand layers of protection, not so much for you as the other person.

    So to explain it another way. Face masks are by themselves a weak weapon. Let us say someone is coming at you with intent to kill. All you have available is a .22 pistol. Are you going to use it? Sure you will.

    There are more effective weapons but you do not have them.

    All this talk about vaccines and meds are about things that do not yet exist. In time they will. There is an enormous effort to develop them. Those we hope will be big guns we can use effectively.

    So it is rather shocking for me to hear the ‘Let ‘em die’ approach. I just do not think that way. I see that others do.

    I am just as affected by these measures as anybody. I know that people will not put up with this for long. Obsessing from day to day about who said what just increases anxiety. Politics just makes a bigger mess of things and obscures clear thinking.

    1. If these fuckheads didn’t keep shifting the goalposts, this wouldn’t be an issue.

      1. It’s called learning about something that never existed before. Instead of tolerating a few mistakes you use them as political rhetorical jackassery.

        You should try learning something new sometime. Your one insight in the world, “Republicans are always good and true,” has been overlearned, if anything, at this point.

        1. It’s called learning about something that never existed before.

          Coronaviruses have been with us for the entire history of humanity and are among the most common types of infectious viruses in humans you absolute fucking halfwit. We have over a century of studies on the efficacy of masks against respiratory viruses. “Regurgitating the latest talking points” as you do has nothing to do with learning. Fuck off and die you retarded piece of shit subhuman faggot

        2. It’s called learning about something that never existed before. Instead of tolerating a few mistakes you use them as political rhetorical jackassery.

          Does that apply for Mr. Trump also?

          OT: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead

    2. It’s Door #3 they should never have opened.

    3. So you’re good with a 20mph speed limit? No? What, are you one of those fucking soulless “let em die” people?

      1. I believe he is comparing the mask to something like a 100 mph speed limit. They won’t save everyone, but they will prevent the worst.

        The consensus position around here he’s referring to is that the worst outcome is actually the best, so go criticize that horror of an argument why don’t you.

        1. A 100 mph speed limit is not restrictive because it is not practical to drive that fast almost anywhere in this country. Wearing a mask on your face that does absolutely nothing to prevent the spread of viruses is restrictive. Do you understand the analogy now, retarded faggot?

    4. Echospinner
      September.17.2020 at 8:24 pm
      “This seems emotional for a lot of people. I get that….”

      Yes it is. Grow up.

    5. This seems emotional for a lot of people. I get that.

      Obviously you do since you proceeded to spend 3 paragraphs doing nothing but appealing to emotion without a scant of evidence to support it. Continue wearing your talisman. Let rational human beings who aren’t mired in idiotic superstition do as they will. Oh, and go fuck yourself while you’re at it, you bootlicking cunt.

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  39. Nora O’donnel has her make-up changed to “AGHAST!”

    “Barr under fire for comparing coronavirus lockdowns to slavery”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmTaqNLIm0k

    She thinks they’re just strong suggestions….
    She tries to act like a news reporter and she’s horrible at it.

    1. Being told what to do by government is not the same as slavery, you goddamn moron. Can you murder someone without the government sanctioning you? No? Does that make you a slave too?

      1. Refusing to wear a mask is exactly the same as murder.

        Tony, you should find a pool cue, and shove it up your faggot ass until you can feel it in your throat.

  40. “Masks, depending on type, filter out the majority of viral particles, but not all,” notes a study published by the Journal of General Internal Medicine in July. But even when masks do not prevent virus transmission, they may reduce the “dose of the virus for the mask-wearer,”

    So, is the adverse true, that is, if you are sick with a virus does wearing the mask make you more sick?

  41. WHICH vaccine? Do we have one yet???

    1. And a lefty shit like you would attempt to divert the discussion, wouldn’t you?
      Fuck off.

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  43. I mean, there is nothing wrong to obey right?

  44. Quote: “Suggesting That Face Masks Are More Effective Than Vaccines, the CDC’s Director”
    Thank you CDC director or confirming my suspicion the vaccine is worthless and potentially dangerous, by telling me that a mask is more effective, and we all know masks have not been effective at all!

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