Capitol Riot

Sedition Charges Are Almost Always a Terrible Idea

Laws against sedition have historically been used by insecure officials to punish critics.


In the wake of the January 6 storming of the Capitol, a popular new word in common usage is "sedition." Horrified onlookersand conniving power brokersurge charging the participants and those who egged them on with "seditious conspiracy" under laws with a nasty history of politicized mischief. As such, "sedition" joins the recently popular "treason" on the list of overused and emotionally charged vocabulary terms with dangerous implications.

"For at least some of these protesters, particularly the ones that broke into the Capitol, I think there's an extraordinarily strong case that they used force to delay, to hinder, the execution of our laws governing the election and how electoral votes are counted," Professor Devin Schindler of Western Michigan University's Cooley Law School told the Detroit Free Press. "It seems fairly clear to me, based on what we're seeing, that folks are in fact, almost textbook violating this seditious conspiracy statute by using force to interfere with lawful government activity."

In his analysis, Schindler echoed earlier comments by former Attorney General William Barr. According to the Wall Street Journal, Barr "told the nation's federal prosecutors to be aggressive when charging violent demonstrators with crimes, including potentially prosecuting them for plotting to overthrow the U.S. government… He encouraged the prosecutors to seek a number federal charges, including under a rarely used sedition law, even when state charges could apply, the people said."

Of course, Barr spoke back in September, when riots consumed parts of many American cities. While out of office by the time of the violence at the Capitol, he called it "outrageous and despicable" and said, "federal agencies should move immediately to disperse it." He did not, it seems, again invoke the prospect of "sedition" charges. Perhaps he realized that the bar for proving sedition isrightfullyvery high in courtrooms that are generally protective of free speech rights.

At the time of Barr's comments, former U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuadewho oversaw a rare (and unsuccessful) sedition prosecution in 2012said that prosecutors face challenges when dealing with allegations of ideologically motivated activity. "You can't penalize people for First Amendment activity, but it leaves fewer tools when you have a group plotting an attack of some sort," she told the Wall Street Journal.

It's become very difficult in the United States to bring sedition charges because courts are all too aware of their record as dangerous weapons in the hands of insecure politicians.

"It's the sort of crime that weak governments enforce against their citizens when the government is facing an existential threat — or thinks it is," Harvard Law School's Noah Feldman pointed out in September:

Sedition prosecutions in the U.S. have a particularly shameful history. The 1798 Sedition Act was used in a nakedly partisan manner by John Adams's Federalist administration to prosecute Republican newspaper editors… The Sedition Act of 1918 was not much better. Passed under conditions of wartime hysteria, it was used to prosecute more than 2,000 people, most of whom spoke against World War I.

The weaponization of law against speech disliked by powerful people has prompted landmark free speech decisions. "The constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action," the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969).

Feldman originally discussed sedition with regard to protesters against police brutality and racial injustice, but he returned to the issue after the violence at the Capitol.

"From the standpoint of hard statutory language, it would be very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the conduct that we observed counted as sedition under the law," he said of the Trumpist participants. Of Trump himself, Feldman commented:

He's calling for a protest march on the Capitol and that's perfectly lawful and constitutionally protected, in fact. Similarly, when the president spoke later and told his supporters to go home while telling them that he loved them and that the election was being stolen, he was pretty careful not to use words that directed imminent lawless action.

That's not to say that the people who violently stormed the Capitol, attacked people (and killed a policeman), and damaged property are blameless or that Trump should get a free pass. But there are other legal means for addressing bad behavior than dusting off statutes that, historically, are best known for their use by powerful government officials to crush enemies and silence dissent. People flinging the word "sedition" around now raise credible concerns that their motivations are no better than those that drove prosecutions under the charge in the past.

In its unfortunate reintroduction to American discourse, "sedition" resembled "treason," a word that in recent years has become an increasingly popular term for smearing anybody with opposing viewpoints. While specifically defined in the U.S. Constitution as levying war against the United States or "adhering to their enemies," it's been used to label people "guilty" of nothing more than supporting opposition political candidates or of refusing to applaud a speech.

Given that treason potentially carries the death penalty, it's a particularly inappropriate epithet to fling at people whose politics you dislike. Sedition "only" carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, but that is a brutal consequence to dangle over people for supposedly violating a law that has historically been used by the powerful against their critics.

If sedition is the sort of crime that weak governments enforce against their citizens, the new popularity of the accusation, along with that of treason, might well be an indicator of the decayed nature of our political institutions. With Americans holding high contempt for one another and nearly record low trust in governmentone-in-five voters in a January 6 YouGov poll even supported the storming of the Capitolit's easy to see how insecure politicians and members of the pundit class could seek strength in outrageous charges and draconian penalties.

But bogus charges and suppression of speechwhether that speech is wise or intemperatewon't reinforce shaky institutions. If people horrified by the events of January 6 want to prevent a recurrence, they can best do so not by resorting to a disreputable legal weapon, but by convincing all sorts of Americans that their freedom and security can be maintained under the existing system. That means that, so long as they respect the rights of others, the system will leave them alone, and not be used to crush them.

NEXT: MAGA-Powered Parler Is Down After Amazon Cancels Its Web Hosting Services

Capitol Riot Protests Donald Trump MAGA Sedition Conspiracy Theories Election 2020 Criminal Justice Law enforcement

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319 responses to “Sedition Charges Are Almost Always a Terrible Idea

  1. Portland police said at least two Molotov cocktails were thrown and commercial-grade fireworks were launched at the federal courthouse and Justice Center, which some rioters attempted to break into.

    The crowd also set multiple fires and chucked rocks, bricks and frozen water bottles at officers from the Federal Protective Services and Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office. Some were struck by paint-filled balloons, which Portland police said may have been “laced with a caustic substance as it caused burning to the skin.”

    None of the left wing media or Democrats (who continue to condemn last week’s most peaceful protest at the Capitol) have criticized the violent riot in Portland against a federal courthouse and other public property.

    1. Crucify them for sedition! Their blood be upon us and our children!

      1. Newton’s third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

        It’s time to heal, not divide.

        1. After big tech/bidenistas have declared war on free speech and dissent, this is the first that the so-called libertarians at have a problem with this war.

          Nick Gillespie are just leftists who want to be more “cool”. They are gutless.

          1. unreason staffers are commies who are not physical fighters. they will leave that to the Useful Idiots.

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            2. unreason staffers will get their head split in two with a machete when civil war 2.0 comes.

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          2. Colin Kapernik definitely incited violence and paid for violent offenders to be back out on the street. Twitter CEO paid him $3 million.

            Now Twitter CEO is gloating about the big tech takedown of the free speech Parler.

            Any comments, Nick Gillespie et al???

        2. Wounds don’t heal when you keep dilating them. Just ask Jazz Jennings.

        3. “It’s time to heal, not divide.”

          Find a cure for TDS; that will ‘heal’ quite a few people.

          1. Selective application of lead oxide?

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          2. Biden thinks it’s a time for “unity” and “healing.” It’s Bullshit. Their plan is to kill the filibuster. Pack the SCOTUS, and make DC, Gaum, and PR states. Their goal is to eliminate conservatives completely. Render them voiceless. Subjugate them and assimilate their children. That is their goal. The solution? Secession. Now.

          3. Actually it’s time to lock Trump up. That’s where he belongs.
            Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up,

    2. pointing out the hypocrisy is pointless at this point. They either know and don’t care or are incapable of thinking outside of a binary.

      1. They know AND dont care AND are incapable of thinking outside of a binary.

        We all thought Communism was not a threat but it is alive and violent in the USA.

        1. Wait, I thought we were neo-Confederate fascists.

          1. “Wait, I thought we were neo-Confederate fascists.”
            To brain-dead cultist like LC and his bffs, everything !trump is branded leftist/commie/fascist/socialist etc. They just put it all in the same bucket. It’s easier than thinking.

            1. Hard to keep up with all the name changes that Commies do.

              Its almost like Lefties are hiding their tyrannical motives.

            2. “…It’s easier than thinking.”

              So you’ve discovered.

            3. Fuck off sarcasmic

          2. Democrats belong to the party of slavery. Democrats want to enslave Americans…again.

            Democrats follow Communism dogma.

            Call them whatever you want. Lefties will just change the name tomorrow in a veiled attempt to hide their true intent.

            1. Democrats are the party of big government and enslaving everyone as an employee of the state. Republicans are the party of limited government. Republicans were the party of libertarians long ago. The democrats keep dragging the republicans to the left. That is why everyday they become more left leaning. Meanwhile, libertarians watch everything go to shit while doing nothing at all. And I really don’t understand why any libertarian would ever advocate for democrats over republicans. Which is why we need Secession now! With secession, we might actually get some libertarian candidates elected.

      2. I’m leaning more and more towards ‘incapable.’ I’ve been reading up on oxytocin production in the brain and it’s links to group-oriented social bonding actions (which is essentially what the twitter circle-jerk is).

        Post about their outrage on twitter -> increase in oxytocin production making them feel good -> drives up their in-group preference -> increases their willingness to excuse immoral behavior committed by their in-group -> decreases their empathy for the out-group when they engage in the same behavior -> post about their outrage on twitter…

        End result, as biologically incapable of acknowledging hypocrisy as a decade long heroin user is of going cold turkey.

        1. Now apply that analysis to yourself.

          1. fuck off sarcasmic

          2. I don’t think he needs to, but you certainly do.

          3. Dude, when did I piss in your cheerios? I barely post here, you have no knowledge of how strongly I identify with either side, and my reply was strictly aimed at whether the media, SJWs, and dem politicians are able to even recognize their hypocrisy.

            The oxytocin production leading to a willingness to excuse otherwise morally unacceptable behavior from one’s own side is well known and, yes, it can be applied to anyone who has a strong in-group preference for left or right. See: Sherman’s march on Atlanta, FDR imprisoning Japanese Americans, tar and feathering of British Loyalists, and so on.

            Now prove to me you aren’t the asshole everyone else seems to think you are by not acting like a dick to someone who wasn’t even talking about you.

            1. You attacked the left. He identifies with the left. You pissed in his cheerios with that one post when you criticized the left. Look, we are supposed to embrace socialism, the leftist agenda, suck Biden’s cock, and like it with no complaints.


      This weekend’s riot in NYC wasn’t even mentioned by the left wing Democrats and their propagandists (i.e. news media) who have claimed last week’s mostly peaceful protest in DC was a seditious insurrection, and who have demanded Trump’s removal.

      1. Umm…. yeah…. there wasn’t a riot in NYC last weekend. (Source: live in NYC near there, my gf is constantly on the citizen app, and there was no rioting).

        1. there was a “counter-protest” with no actual protest that needed countering.

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    9. The “what about” accusations seem to be the popular defense for the Trump administration. That’s odd.

      1. fuck off Tony

        1. Hello there loser Trump voter. Now all of your rights will be taken away because democracy and our court system is broken. They’ll be coming for your house soon unless you live with mommy and daddy. In which case they’ll be coming for their house. Either way, you’ll be homeless.

      2. Because there is a persistent and obvious double standard applied to them.

        Regardless of your feelings about the Capitol breach, this is simply a fact. And it’s part of what fuels Trump support.

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    11. Of course they aren’t going to acknowledge it. Acknowledging it means admitting that these treason/sedition/terrorism accusations are pure rhetoric and destroys the narrative.

    12. Vice President Kamala set up a bail fund for these seditionists, she should be expelled from office.

    13. *Article about an actual insurectionist mob, set loose by none other than the president. Our capitol is breached for the first time since 1812*

      Bill: “In Portland, anti-fa super soldiers ….”

      Never change, never learn.

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    17. There’s no equivalence to be drawn between storming the Capitol to prevent the lawful Congressional ratification of states’ electoral votes and the actions of some anti-fascists in a largely irrelevant outpost of the American empire. And, as an aside, the conflict in Portland between the hard Left and the hard Right has been going on since the Weather Underground of the 1960s.

  2. Nothing the protesters and thieves did on Jan 6 was sedition.

    Democrats started Civil war 2.0 and war is hell. Luckily the Democrats lost Civil War 1.0 and will lose this war too.

    1. 18 U.S. Code § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy
      If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

      Democrats have been guilty of this for decades.

      Democrats and their propagandists are fully embracing the Commie tactics to destroy America and its freedom loving Patriots.


        Lefties are guilty of quite a few of these….

        Commies in America like to hide behind our 1st Amendment when they are actually trying to destroy America from the inside out.

      2. or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States

        Like storming the Capital and preventing, hindering, and delaying the certification of the EC?

        I thought sedition was a stupid charge until you openly said that’s what the Trump rioters did.

        1. the most impressive part is they sacked the capital without guns. If the cops can’t keep the capital safe they really can’t keep my family safe. #defindthepolice

          1. A cop murdered an armed lady climbing a window in a public building.

            Civil war 2.0 will be just like Civil War 1.0. Brother against brother. Some cops will defend the tyrannical Democrats and run when armed Patriots confront them. Other cops will side with the Patriots.

            Politicians would do the same thing. McCain was a piece of shit and would have sided with Commie Democrats. Talk about Manchurian candidate.

            1. And the mob murdered a cop trying to stop them from breaking and entering. The cops weren’t defending Democrats. They were just there doing their job to try to keep things under control and safe.

              1. Your citation fell off. I didnt know a cop was killed on Jan 6?

                Poor unreason commies.

                1. Google “Brian Sicknick”.

                  1. You might want to read this article before you turn poor Brian into a new Horst Wessel for your cause.
                    He wouldn’t have been on board.


                    1. This right here shows why you are a garbage human being, and also why you are missing the point. Also, at this point, fuck off, Canadian.

                      Sarcasmic wasn’t bringing that officer up because he is an ideological ally (or enemy), as you view people. He was bringing him up because the Trumpist mob, carry “Thin Blue Line” flags, unironically beat that officer to death using an American flag on a pole. That officer was protecting the constitution and doing his duty to it. The members of the mob are enemies of the constitution, and will be treated as such.

                      The Mob, and the president are committed sedition, murder, and of gross and glaring hypocrisy.

                2. And “Howard Liebengood”.

                  1. And “Howard Liebengood”.

                    Liebengood was a suicide but it’s not surprising facts don’t matter when there’s an opportunity to attack others.

                    1. Sarc and Tony are here to lie and shitpost and run cover for the coup.

                3. The one they beat with flag poles didn’t die.

                  1. yeah that’s more relevant they beat he fuck out of that guy.

                  2. Funny how that video surfaced four days later and none of the people in it are seen in any other videos.


                    Sarcasmic supporting BLM and denying they ever committed any violence is the norm here. Odd.

                    1. JesseAz posting stuff that he wants people to talk about, and claiming that not talking about it equals whatever strawman he dreams up. Not odd. Not odd at all.

                    2. Well you convinced me sarcasmic.

                4. As I thought. No cops died on Jan 6 at the Capitol.

                  1. Oh yeah, one died from injuries received at the hands of Trump rioters on Jan 6 at the Capitol.


                    1. I don’t know if that’s clear sarcasmic, I don’t exactly trust the police to not be hyperbolic when describing violence against them, he died after reporting back to headquarters while he was doing paperwork. It’s like blaming the cops for the magatards who had heartattacks at the riot.

                    2. What I read was that he got his head bashed in with a fire extinguisher.

                    3. I hadn’t seen that. The impression I got reading between the lines is he left after a shift change and collapsed from a stroke while doing paperwork at headquarters. I hadn’t actually read a report that said he sustained injuries it’s possible for sure plenty of capital police got assaulted. But it wouldn’t be uncharacteristic of cops to be exaggerate the circumstances I’m sure you’d agree.

                    4. But it wouldn’t be uncharacteristic of cops to be exaggerate the circumstances I’m sure you’d agree.

                      Of course. Though I don’t care enough to delve into it further.

                    5. Funny how it’s always after 50 posts and you bein wrong that you suddenly don’t care

                    6. LOL. Sqrsly doesn’t want to discuss it further after facts come out that counter his denouncement. Still won’t denounce BLM violence.

                    7. I hadn’t seen that.

                      I had seen that, but since the follow up reports don’t mention it I’m starting to question it. One reason not to jump to conclusions about sedition or anything else is that half of what we heard will turn out to be false.

              2. that’s not really what happened.


                “Officer Sicknick was responding to the riots on Wednesday, January 6, 2021, at the U.S. Capitol and was injured while physically engaging with protesters. He returned to his division office and collapsed. He was taken to a local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries,” the statement read.

                Sicknick had joined the Capitol Police in July 2008, and most recently served in the department’s First Responders Unit.

                1. the official cause of death is a stroke. It’s tragic but it’s far from clear he died because of injuries from the riot. If he had sustained any substantial injuries he would have been required to be hospitilized by protocol alone.

                  1. I’d believe that not all protocols were being followed 100% in the middle of a riot.

                    Add in COVID restrictions and he might not have been allowed at the hospital until it was clear he was going to die without treatment.

                    1. maybe but I’m always suspicious of press releases like this from the boys in blue. The VA state police tried to blame a state trooper helicopter crash on the charlottesville riots.

                    2. Yes, find the truth, but why should the mob be given the benefit of the doubt?

        2. Wait, I though challenging the EC was sedition?

          Get your lies straight, unreason commies.

          1. I’m talking about charging the rioters, not the president.

            1. Than I don’t think you’ll be disappointed my guess is they all get the book thrown at them. Funny to see civil rights minded libertarians arguing for these people to get the book thrown at them.

              1. Why is it funny? Breaking into the Capitol, stealing stuff, assaulting Capitol Police officers and vandalizing the place isn’t a civil right.

                1. no but it’s pretty funny I mean you have to admit seeing the unemployed barbarian screaming in the speakers seat had to have made you chuckle correct? Seeing that old boomercon fart sitting in pelosi’s congressional office with his feet up was pretty good. I mean come on have you no sense of humor about the state’s sacred temple getting desecrated by illiterate maga chugs?

                  1. It’s a damn shame people got hurt, because that shit was hilarious.
                    I say punish them for whatever ordinary crimes they committed. Trespassing, theft, assault, whatever. But framing it as a serious assault on democracy, or whatever it is, is absurd. There was no possible scenario in which this prevented the election from being certified and there was no attempt to harm or threaten any legislators as far as I know.

                    1. agreed my issue with the blm people was the looting and burning of business’s if they did something like this I’d have found it equally absurd and comically hilarious. Chaz was hilarious. Kenosha and Milwalkee and the damage throughout the country was not.

                    2. it’s beyond eye roll inducing after 9 months of the left and many reason commentators and writers sympathezing with blm who were also screaming about revolution are clutching their pearls over this stupid shit and pretending to care about the capital police.

                2. People who committed assault will be charged with that. The only reason for sedition charges is to punish those who aren’t guilty of assault.

            2. Its a public building that should have never been closed anyway.

              EC counts are usually done with the public in the viewing area.

              Property crimes are illegal and they normally should be charged for the misdemeanors that they are. Normally I would acquit them if I served on their juries.

              Since Democrats started Civil war 2.0, the Constitution is no longer in effect. No more protections for Lefties.

              1. the Constitution is no longer in effect

                And the winner for “Least Self Aware Post” goes too…

                1. I have been saying this for years, especially since the Democrats tried to coup a duly elected president.

                  1. It only matters when more and more Americans accept that America is at war with Democrats.

                  2. This only works if your side is in power.

        3. By the word of the law, yeah it’s sedition, but that law is overly broad. If two people break a window in a federal building and then run from the police, that could also be sedition under this wording.

          There is no benefit to charging these people with sedition. Just charge them with vandalism, theft, breaking and entering, assault on a police officer and other “normal” things that directly address the damage they caused. Some of these things are still felonies with serious consequences.

          Also, dropping the absurd sedition stuff would be a good first step in “healing” our political divide, while pushing for sedition charges would spread that divide more.

          1. “By the word of the law, yeah it’s sedition”

            That’s all I said. Nothing more.

            1. JFC you lie constantly

              1. He was drunk all weekend. Wait, no. He was hacked. Yeah that’s it.

          2. If Lefty US attorneys are not going to charge Antifa pussies with sedition fro burning federal buildings, then it is ridiculous to consider it with these people on Jan 6.

            1. It is ridiculous in both cases. Sedition isn’t for people who are just pissed off and looking to break stuff and yell angrily.

              1. Sedition was mainly cooked up for use against Confederate Democrats because they broke away from the USA and then attacked the USA.

                Even Confederates were forgiven for that.

                Democrats are liars and are lying about this too.

                1. That explains why the two relevant laws were passed in 1789 and 1918. Oh, wait…

        4. “”or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States””

          Does this include immigration laws?

          “or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,”

          Resisting arrest?

          “”or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof,””

          The Seattle autonomous zone?

        5. I think you’re missing the *force* part of your absurd claim.

      3. or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof,

        So … stealing something, anything, from the US Government is considered sedition? What a joke of a definition.

  3. finally an almost sane article from rational review.

  4. The past 12 months have seen a number of riots. We can not condone those this summer and few people have. What happened on January 6th was not wanton destruction but rather destruction, killing and an attempt to stop the certification of a legal and fair election. It must be treated more seriously that what happened in a number of other American cities. That said I suggest first focusing on charges for basic criminal activity trespassing, destruction of property, attempted kidnapping, and murder. Question of charging sedition should come last.

    1. Yeah Yeah it’s different because it’s not your guys.

      1. ^ How toddlers think.

    2. or it was a mostly peaceful unguided boomercon tour of the capital building and the election got certified that night. In the last 80 years the capital has survived defiling from puerto rican seperatists, commie bombers and ted kennedy pretty sure it’s the country is going to survive the fact that Nancy Pelosi couldn’t go to work a whole day millions of americans have shared that experience for most of a year.

    3. The past 12 months have seen a number of riots.

      That, not counting the events in D.C., killed something like 25 people and caused billions of dollars in damage, as well as the destruction of many people’s livelihoods. That you think that’s somehow less serious than the 5 who died (1 of whom was killed by law enforcement, and 2 of whom were people succumbing to medical issues), some broken windows and a briefly delayed, largely ceremonial EC count speaks volumes about how far up your own backside your mostly empty head is.

      1. I agree it was mostly ceremonial, so why go to the lengths these people went to try to stop it?

        1. “I agree it was mostly ceremonial, so why go to the lengths these people went to try to stop it?”

          Yep, protesting is not acceptable, right?

        2. why go to the lengths these people went to try to stop it?

          Theater is opposed with theater. It’s revealing leftists react to opposing theater with absurd charges of sedition, but at least it outs the idiots pretending to be moderate.

    4. “The past 12 months have seen a number of riots. We can not condone those this summer and few people have…”

      “CNN Tonight host Don Lemon suffered a meltdown for the ages Saturday night, spending almost 11 minutes unloading his disdain for America in 2020 and, except for a mealy-mouthed condemnation, giving support for the rioting and other criminal acts supposedly done to mourn the Monday death of Minneapolis African-American man George Floyd.”
      I’m going to assume that dishonesty is beyond your limited capabilities; you’re just too stupid to understand.

    5. “”The past 12 months have seen a number of riots. We can not condone those this summer and few people have.””

      Just a few? I remember the phrase “riots are the voice of the unheard” going around.

    6. I notice a lot of Gee Oh Pee shills are jumping the sinking ship. Yet none are Drug Czar, DEA, ATF or other bloodsucking lampreys of the first water. Is Biden 3.0 another 1986 obbedire combattere?

    7. “killing” — What killing????? You wack-jobs delusional narrative turning more into ‘Inquiring minds’ articles everyday.

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  6. Sedition :incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority.

    It seems to me that preventing the president of the United States from addressing the citizens, by media banning and censorship, is the sedition.

    1. Democrats started Civil war 2.0 years ago.

      They tried to coup Trump as a duly elected president.

      Lefties are really going to hate that there are no constitutional protections for them anymore.

    2. The president has a press briefing room at his disposal. Twitter kicking off a customer isn’t sedition.

      Trying to murder Congress and install an illegitimate president, now that’s some sedition.

      Do you ever get to a problem so bad for yourself that you know deep down you’ll never be able to ratfuck your way out of it?

      1. What gives you the idea the rioters were trying to murder congress? Were they carrying weapons? Did they try to track them down after they left the joint session?

        1. One guy shat his assassination plans all over Twitter. Some guys had zip ties and thug gear. They were feet away from the Senate chamber with people hiding under desks but were diverted by a cop.

          Wait a minute, why are you excusing any of this? What do you think was the point? A stern talking to?

      2. Trying to murder Congress”

        You’re even shit at demagoging, Tony.

        “install an illegitimate president

        He’s already installed as president and has been for four fucking years, and will be for nine more days. How the hell do you install something that’s already installed.
        You’re absolutely shit at rhetoric, Tony, but you’re always trying.

        1. So they were just there for the statuary?

          I’m not sure what nits you’re trying to pick. Shouldn’t you be trying and failing to distance yourself from the terrorists rather than defending them?

      3. Isn’t it interesting that even when criticizing extremists for beliefs detached from reality the left asserts beliefs attached from reality.

      4. Imagine if America had a protest culture comparable to England or France. We would have sedition charges filed on an annual basis.

        Limp dicked Congressmen being afraid and having their fee fees hurt != attempted murder. Were Wisconsinites trying to murder Scott Walker and the State Legislature too? No, they just occupied the building for days on end because they wanted to be heard. They weren’t going to take no or “we’ll get back to you” for an answer. These protesters are no different.

        1. Keep jumping to the defense of the terrorists. Be sure to do it all over your social media.

      5. “Trying to murder Congress” — I see Biden isn’t the only one who suffers from Dementia.

    3. This is the dumbest take on this I have ever seen.

      And we are libertarians here who respect property rights and free association. You can fuck off.

      1. People’s inalienable rights are protected everywhere within the borders of a nation.

        That’s a fundamental prerequisite to setting up shop.

        You don’t forfeit your right to life when you step onto private property.

        If a company wants to enter the business of speech here, it must be free

        Those of you who advocate private media speech censorship must think that 1a can only be guaranteed when everyone has their own platform.

        You completely oblivious to the fact that then there is no communication. The point of speech.

        You need reminding that 1a is an inalienable right.

        “It isn’t just Twitter. Mark Zuckerberg (zero votes) had already indefinitely suspended Trump (74million votes) from Facebook. Reddit has scrubbed its Donald Trump thread. All social-media accounts that promote the mad Qanon conspiracy theory are being suspended. Mike Flynn and Sidney Powell have been banished from Twitter. YouTube is now banning any video and account that says the American election was fraudulent. This shows how ideological Silicon Valley oligarchs have become. For four years leading members of the media and cultural elites in the US and the UK have said the American presidential election and the EU referendum of 2016 were frauds. That they were meddled with, illegitimate, should be overthrown. You’ll find tens of thousands of videos on YouTube featuring people saying the vote for Brexit was a fit-up by Ruskies or an ‘advisory’ vote fraudulently turned into an instructional one. They won’t be taken down. Because our tech overlords are engaged in acts of openly political censorship.

        And then there’s Parler, the libertarian alternative to Twitter. Google this week removed the Parler app from its store on the basis that it doesn’t control its users’ inflammatory speech strictly enough. Apple is threatening to do likewise. All those who said ‘Just make your own social-media platform’ clearly underestimated the tyrannical determination of the woke elites to erase ‘offensive speech’ from every quarter of the internet. This is a full-on purge of any voice that significantly runs counter to the worldview of the anti-populist elites.

        That the left is cheering this on is cretinism of the most remarkable kind. They are green-lighting the most thorough assault on freedom of speech that the capitalist elites have ever carried out. They are sanctioning the control of speech by billionaires. They are celebrating as corporate oligarchies interfere directly in the democratic process. They are making a fetish of private property rights, insisting that the corporate rights of virtual monopolies like Twitter and Facebook, in this case their right to throw people off their platforms, override the social, democratic good of free public debate.”

        Brendan O’Neill

  7. Some of these crazies straight up stared into a camera while they storming the Capitol and said they were trying to overthrow the govt.

    1. they are mostly partisan morons. BLM and countless rioters and protesters said the same thing all summer long. All of them idiots.

      1. All atrocity is preceded by absurdity.

        1. I have yet to see the trumpers set fire to private business’s or public buildings so I’ll keep that in mind.

          1. It’s laughable that this seems to be many people’s largest concern in the midst of the most totalitarian state power grab and state sanctioned transfer of wealth since the civil war and reconstruction.

          2. I care about the people who died, although the officer’s family said they don’t want it politicized.

            I don’t give a damn about the Capitol Building, pay for the repairs out of the funds that were earmarked for Pakistani Gender Studies

            1. That’s not how this works. You know a billion dollars or so are going to be earmarked for “Capitol grounds restoration and enhanced security posture” or some such.

              1. best point against the unguided boomercon tour yet. This is how you convince me what happened was wrong.

                1. Lol, definitely.

          3. Trumpers killed a police officer in the Capitol.

            1. Police killed an unarmed woman as well, lard ass

              1. A mob is never unarmed.

                Un-Americana, traitorous filth.

            2. I mean he died of a stroke after he left and was back at the headquarters filing paperwork.

              1. but yes that is tragic.

                1. never heard of a concussion, eh?

                  and you are oh- so – neutral, but you side with minimizing this incident in every way possible.

                  Why do I detect a baby fascist under that mask?

            3. His diet did that actually.

        2. Democrats are pretty absurd.

    2. I think they were being hyperbolic.

    3. I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the USA against all enemies foreign and domestic.

      Democrats are the enemy to the Constitution. The sooner they are given court-martials and banished from the USA, the better.

    4. “and said they were trying to overthrow the govt.”

      Then they need to do it the old-fashioned way, by bribing and sleeping with Democrats. Anything less is just unseemly.

    5. I suspect they’ve lost faith in the system.

    6. So, simply saying it means they are doing it? If I go steal some stop signs and say that I’m doing it to overthrow the government, am I guilty of sedition? When there is no plausible scenario where the government gets overthrown, can you say that they were actually trying to do that?

      1. “”When there is no plausible scenario where the government gets overthrown, “”


        At best all they could do is delay the EC vote count. It is interfering with Congress’s constitutional duty. So is interrupting a constitutionally required SCOTUS nominee hearing. Group A should be charged similar to group B.

    7. “…said they were trying to overthrow the govt.”

      Who “they”, and, no surprise, your cite went missing.

  8. If trump and the democrats were trying to foment violence would it look any different? Trump bent the knee and they still can’t let it go.

    1. Trump has yet to concede an election loss to Biden.

      He still have legal actions pending in the SCOTUS and wont be attending the Jan 20 coup party.

      Leaving office on Jan 20 at noon is not exactly bending the knee. Which is why Lefties are so pissed.

      Democrats are looking for legitimacy and wont get it.

      1. “”Trump has yet to concede an election loss to Biden.””

        Trump has admitted Biden will be president and there will be a transition. Close enough.

    2. Trump supporters basically gave congress a bitch-slapping. A few of them like AOC and Lindsay Graham peed their pants. And now they’re offended at the grave insult to their aristocracy.

      1. I’d be furious if I were them too, I thought the point of having all those hired goons was so shit like this didn’t happen.

      2. “”And now they’re offended at the grave insult to their aristocracy.””

        Or perhaps grave insult to their religion. When government is one’s religion, the Capitol becomes the holy ground.

      3. hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

  9. If breaking into the Capitol is an act of war, then we’ve been at war for a while now.

  10. Anti-White liberals and respectable conservatives that support mass third-world immigration and forced assimilation for EVERY White country and ONLY White countries say that they are anti-racist, but their immoral policies will lead to a world with no White people i.e White Genocide. Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.

    1. STFU

    2. FYI.
      Larkenson is one of Jeff’s little sockpuppet accounts that he drags out for the purposes of astroturfing, in order to make the commentariat look like a hive of bigotry.

  11. Nobody cares and you can’t do shit for convictions except for a few people.

    There weren’t any “No Entry” signs. No cops told them NOT to go in (due to the chaos). They will claim they thought the cops were letting them in for a sit-down just like Code Pink during the Kavanaugh hearings. The terrible truth is, other than a few rabblerousers, you ain’t got shit other than some show-arrests.

    Funny times!

    1. The Hill security removed the barricades, opened the side doors and let them in.

  12. Lotta so called liberals screaming sedition – tells you everything you need to know that they have abandoned free speech except for themselves and only under circumstances they control.

  13. I thought for sure this article would be about Nancy Pelosi contacting the Joint Chiefs of Staff and asking for their support in removing President Trump from power.

    That is awfully close to sedition and should be fully investigated.

    “THE DEFENSE Department’s top officer on Friday confirmed he had spoken with Nancy Pelosi about President Donald Trump’s powers as commander in chief but in a carefully crafted statement distanced the Pentagon from any attempts by the House speaker or other congressional leaders to strip the president of his authorities.”

    How do you write an article about sedition and fail to mention Nancy Pelosi contacting the Joint Chiefs of Staff and asking for their support for what might be described as a coup?

    1. We’re only interested in one very specific type of sedition, Ken.

      Also if you’re doing a sedition to try to stop someone else’s sedition it doesn’t count.

    2. Orange man is bad and people are saying he’s gone insane like king george, ken. I read it in the papers.

    3. Fuck off Ken. She’s trying to make sure an insane man with the authority to launch nukes doesn’t launch any nukes.

      Whoever disobeys Trump’s last order is the hero of this story.

      Your deflections are desperate, and frankly one wonders why you persist allying yourself with a faction so clearly traitorous and violent.

      1. Wait, are there people out there who legitimately think Trump just has a big red “NUKE” button that he’s constantly 1 second away from hitting? That there’s no restrictions at all?

        I hope you’re being deliberately obtuse, if you’re actually that dumb then having unrestricted access to the internet is gonna get you in a lot of trouble.

        1. Oh, so there is some person or process that is more powerful than the president when it comes to nuclear weapons?

          Nancy Pelosi knows that the president has unilateral authority to launch nuclear weapons. Yes, he has to go through a process. Yes, he can keep firing people until he finds one willing to do his bidding.

          I’m not interested in assuming the best about Trump anymore. I’m interested in criticizing Ken for trying on yet more Republican ratfucking for size.

          Sure Trump supporters tried to murder congress, but isn’t Trump the real victim?

          —Ken and FOX News, simultaneously

          1. What Pelosi did was super illegal, Tony, and you can’t wish that away.

            1. Asking a question is illegal? What was illegal? She got the right answer: there’s nothing she can do if Trump wants to nuke something.

              And your big problem right now is preserving Donald Trump’s right to rain fire on cities?

              You guys all with the same fucking fake FOX News grievances all at the same time. Independent thinkers all.

              1. Hey look who jumped off the sedition bandwagon when it’s his girl Nancy doing it.

                1. He wasn’t on the sedition bandwagon where there was an actual case of sedition in Seattle.

                  Taking US territory and claiming it no longer belongs to the US and it now under your control is pretty much a text book case of sedition.

                  1. Pretty sure I criticized many of the protestors’ tactics at the time. You can keep claiming I supported violence and property destruction, and then you can keep claiming that this somehow excuses the terrorist attack, but you’d be smarter just to distance yourself from them. You can try an insurrection but you won’t win.

                    1. You never called in sedition.

                    2. If you want to desperately falsely equate everything in the hopes that I’m fucking dumb enough to forget what Trump tried to do to my country, you can go right ahead. Be on the losing side of an intractable civil war. Be my fucking guest.

                    3. What’s funny is I am not on the side of the rioters. Yet you have convinced yourself that I am with your own bias and projection.

                    4. If there is any false equivalency going on it is comparing people who did not seize property, officially declare it is no longer part of the US to those who did.

                      There is a case for trespassing, and obstruction. People seem to be getting charged accordingly so far.

                    5. We agree to disagree about whether property destruction or sedition is the bigger crime but I’m the only one explicitly saying both are bad and should be treated according to law.

                      The Trumpets tried to do away with law itself, and without law there is no property and there are no presidents.

                    6. “”We agree to disagree about whether property destruction or sedition is the bigger crime””

                      As usual you are wrong. Sedition is the bigger crime.
                      But you don’t really care about sedition except when you can say the other team did it.

                      In Seattle, they declared victory over the US government. They even had a sign that said now leaving the USA when you entered.

          2. There are multiple people involved in any decision to launch nuclear weapons, yes.

            If you’re going to call on the military to remove him from power, why not just call on them to ignore his batshit nuke everyone order you’re so worried about?

            1. I don’t want the military to remove him from power. I just want us to get through the next 9 days without Trump supporters or Trump himself murdering any more people than they already have

              Ken is trying to make Trump the victim of the attempted assassination of Nancy Pelosi done in his name. That’s all I wanted to point out.

              1. God even your fake outrage over things that only happened in your mind is forced and tiresome.

              2. The only person murdered was Ashli Babbitt though.

                1. Terrorists who storm the capitol should expect to get killed. The only reason more of them weren’t smears on the marble is because the president was on their side.

                  1. This seems akin to the: “Criminals resisting arrest should expect to be shot by police” argument—one I’m sure you criticized by arguing that the Floyds, Browns, Garners didn’t qualify as “criminals resisting arrest.”

                    Of course, no problem throwing “terrorist” around to justify a police shooting.

              3. The initial claim that I was replying to was that you were worried that he was going to nuke someone/something, which is why Saint Nancy attempted to use the military to remove him. I pointed out that worrying about Trump nuking anything right now is ridiculous, and if that’s the concern there’s better ways to address it than a military coup.

                You could at least have the stones to stand by what you said, even if it’s absurd. That or retract it. This mealy mouthed “I was only trying to say…” bullshit is cowardly even by your standards.

                1. The motive for doing something illegal is for a prosecutor, a judge, and a jury to decide.

                  If the only justification for Pelosi’s sedition was her motives, then we’re not arguing about whether what she did was sedition.

                  If Pelosi stole a car because she wanted to feed hungry children, that doesn’t mean she didn’t steal a car.

                  1. These other people are simple morons in thrall to a cult. You’re a regular FOX News producer trying to make out somehow that Nancy Pelosi, victim of an assassination attempt, is the real problem here.

                    She got her answer. She did not call on anyone to overthrow the legitimate president. The only ones doing that are Trump and his cultists.

                2. Funny how people thinks a guy who had been trying to get us out of wars is going to start setting off nukes.

                  1. Even your weak-ass excuses for still loving Trump are lies.

                    Trump did not make less war than Obama. He made more.

                    1. “Trump did not make less war than Obama. He made more.”

                      Name one that he did that wasn’t already in progress?

                    2. And there goes the goalpost.

                      He changes the rules to make it easier to target families, precisely as he campaigned on in 2016. You guys always conveniently forget that.

                      Then he stopped having the US report the body count. It’s estimated that he’s killed far more innocent people in four years than Obama did in eight.

                      But body count isn’t your metric now, it’s “starting wars.” Obama didn’t do that either.

                      Trump deserves credit for nothing. He will be shitcanned by history and there won’t be a single goddamn footnote pointing out the good stuff. We don’t do that with fascists. We kill them and clean up the rubble.

                    3. Not moving the goal post. You said he made more war. Trump is the last president since Carter to not start a new campaign on his watch. He has a couple of days left to screw that up.

                      Even congress pushed back on Trump’s willingness to end our current occupations.

                    4. “”It’s estimated that he’s killed far more innocent people in four years than Obama did in eight.””

                      You got a cite for that?

        2. (Narrator Voice) “But what the Drug Habit would later learn was, yes indeed, Tony was that dumb.” (/Narrator Voice)

          Cribbing from P.J. O’Rourke, I doubt there’s anything in ‘The Football’ at all. Maybe a couple of old 70s Penthouses and half a quart of bottled in bond whiskey.

          If you were smart enough to set up the system of nuclear command and control for the U.S., would you make it so some retard that fooled 50 percent+1 of the voters, could do anything by themselves with it?

          1. No, but as far as I know that is the system we have.

            Not interested in “it can’t get worse” right now. Every time I’ve believed that, Trump made it worse.

            1. You’re an idiot savant, in your ability to be paint chip-eating-retarded, for at least the last fifteen years here, and yet still convince an army of commenters to think it’s worthwhile to try and change your mind.

              Go you.

      2. Fuck you’re so shit at this mock outrage Tony. You should give Media Matters their fifty-cents back.

        1. What would you be shitting all over this place if the attackers hadn’t been your political allies?

          1. Here Tony reveals his own motivations by assigning them to others.

          2. At least you admit the far left are your political allies.

            1. At least they were protesting against murder. You seem to be pro-murder all around.

              1. Says the guy who, earlier in the thread, lamented the lack of “more [blood] smears on the marble [floor of the Capitol].”

      3. Says a lot about our political discourse if you seriously believe nuclear weapons have anything to do with what’s happening right now.

        I thought this might be the moment that makes Pelosi look in the mirror, but she doubled down. I fear what may come next.

        1. Nuclear weapons aren’t the problem, the insane man trying to cling to power and endorsing terrorist attacks to achieve it is the problem.

          1. The LEFT – Hit’s the older and wiser brother over the head with bat then hides behind mommy in fear and screams that brother is going to kill him for no reason at all….

            I take one thing away from your reaction Tony; You are scared.
            Don’t worry; Republicans are nearly as mean as Democrats – you might not be able to keep your bat but we aren’t going to kill you with it.

            1. Actually goes hand-in-hand with your claim that Biden was going to militarize and launch war on Trump supporters the other day… Of which wouldn’t surprise me too much. Democrats really are THAT MEAN!


    They won’t charge them with sedition. Well, maybe they will, but they’ll also charge them with murder.

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  15. Why do progressives of all people want to declare Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo?

    1. Progressives get horny for violence, go read a history book before they burn all of them.

      1. The term Power-Mad fits them well. Can’t remember who pitched the term a while back but it was a stroke of genius.

  16. “knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority”

    This is the main charge they’re getting. Prove anybody except the first guys through the police line “knew” they didn’t just get let in for a sit-in (hey, just like they let Code Pink!).

    Now let the show trials begin!

    1. Won’t matter, if they actually go to trial they’ll get a jury of DC residents. I suspect they won’t be sympathetic and actual guilt is irrelevant to the kind of people who choose to live in DC; who did it is way more important than what they did.

  17. Democrats winning an election makes them the enemy.

    Republicans violently attacking Congress to install a Russia-backed dictator makes them patriots.

    But bbbbuuut whhhhaaboiut black people?

    1. “Russia-backed dictator”

      Yeah, because a few Facebook posts swayed the election.

      1. Look at this piece of filth sarc trying to rehab his rep

      2. What about “Russia-backed” is untrue?

        1. The “Russia-backed” part.

          1. Do you think Trump never criticizes Russia because they have dirt on him, or because it would validate criticism of himself?

            Which of these is the more presidential behavior?

            1. Innuendo thy name is Tony

            2. Actually Trump was harder on Russia than any president since Reagan. Just because he wasn’t out 24/7 talking about Russia like the hacks on CNN doesn’t mean there was dirt.

              Anyway you’re losing it.

              1. Allowing fracking for natural gas is far tougher on Russia than most anything else you can think of. And Biden is going to do his level best to drop the banhammer on it.

              2. You don’t have to beclown yourself by defending him any longer. He’s probably going to prison. You’ll feel better just letting the whole thing go.

    2. Storming the Kavanaugh confirmation: being heard.
      Storming the Joe Biden EC certification: declaration of war.

      1. You keep trying to equivocate as if I was here endorsing any violence at any time.

        You’re endorsing what happened Wednesday every time you trot out this nonsense, aren’t you? Because you think other people (allegedly) doing something bad gives you the right to do something worse? Sounds kinda like the fucking Nazis to me.

        1. But you did endorse the Kavanagh protesters… and the BLM rioters destroying federal buildings, and you did it right here, hypocrite.

          1. I said many, many times I don’t like violent tactics, because all it achieves is endless ratfucking on FOX News.

            And at any rate, the millions of people who participated in protests for black civil rights are not collectively responsible for crimes committed by individuals.

            You want to make leftists collectively responsible because you’re using fucking textbook Nazi tactics.

        2. You keep acting like unrelenting support for people who excused violence and are setting up a differential system where violence in support of their side is ok, isn’t support for violence.

          Yeah, you’ll stupidly say “I never supported Trump what are you talking about” because you are a cunt bitch and we will all remember how you’re a piece of trash not worth more than a few insults.

          You’re helping to implement a syetem where violence is treated differently depending on the actors. And that makes you evil. Full stop.

          1. You can be against something wrong without ever thinking about anyone else’s hypocrisy. I don’t know why I’m having to explain how morals work to you people. Anyone who was caught doing violence got punished as determined by law.

            On a completely unrelated subject, Trump supporters tried to overthrow the rule of law. Literally assassinate Congress and the vice president.

            You’re going to keep talking about unrelated things in order to try to defend terrorism against the United States. Work on yourself, and I promise you I’ll work on any hypocrisy I may be unaware of.

            1. “”Literally assassinate Congress and the vice president.””

              Bullshit. You complain about Trump fans buying into bullshit rhetoric, while you are buying into bullshit rhetoric.

              1. If their goal was to send a message, they sent the wrong message.

                They’re plotting more violence. Sure you want to be caught defending them?

        3. No, I’m saying that ratcheting up the rhetoric to Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo sounds like playing right into a crazy right-wingers hands. Seems kinda optional too if the last year is anything to go by.

          Is it worth it?

          1. Ratcheting up? They assaulted the capitol and tried to assassinate members of congress and the vice president.

            Why do you want me to downplay that? Isn’t there enough of that around here? Somehow there’s a consensus that it’s OK to overthrow the US government if someone somewhere also committed violence.

            The people in this room need to understand how serious this is so that they don’t make the mistake of abandoning keyboard warrior lifestyle and joining the cause for real.

            People who lie for months on end about a stolen election and then can’t help but defend terrorists acting on that lie have bigger problems than me pointing out facts.

          2. “tried to assassinate members of congress and the vice president.”

            Oh please. And once that didn’t pan out, they figured the best thing to do instead was take selfies and shit on the walls?

            The same people who say that there’s no evidence of Antifa here are not charging anyone with attempted murder.

            Yes, that’s what I call “ratcheting up”.

            1. Yes the seditionists were morons. Welcome to proof of the thesis I’ve been working on for years. Rightwingers are the biggest terrorist threat to the republic, and they are morons.

              I haven’t been here criticizing this because I am on a cynical mission to spread propaganda for my favorite politicians. I knew this would probably happen. It fit too many known historical patterns.

              1. Have you googled “Kavanaugh death threats”? Should I go ahead and assume storming the Kavanaugh confirmation was an assassination attempt against our entire federal government and go around saying that the left has declared Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo?

                The answer is “No, that’s a stupid overreaction that makes everything worse.” If you don’t think so, then you have no business doing risk assessments, and no one who thinks like you should have power, lest we be at a constant state of war against everyone we’re scared of. That’s not a good state for society.

                Instead, I would encourage some attempt to understand other people beyond maximizing what crimes you can accuse them of.

                1. Sorry, but I didn’t sit here and harp on every single rightwing murder that ever happened, and there are always plenty of them each year. They’re not reported on FOX News, of course, who prefer to plaster up every scary black face that comes out of Chicago PD.

                  Yes this thing is different. You’d have no problem believing that if you saw it happen on TV. At this point I’m not sure you have. Go watch them overrun the US Capitol and break into the speaker’s office and call for assassinating her and Mike Pence that day. No congressmen were hiding under desks because of the women’s marchers.

                  I think 300 people were arrested during the event you were talking about. Presumably some of them even committed crimes. I’m not asking for anything but the law to be applied. The law these people tried to erase from the earth because they didn’t get their way in an election.

                  I do love how with all this flim flam being thrown into the ether we don’t ever get to the fact that the Kavanaugh protesters were protesting for good reasons and the Trumpers are protesting for bad reasons.

                  It’s almost like it’s become assumed fact that the Republican fucking of Merrick Garland wasn’t an evil shitshow and was all perfectly normal. And how dare anyone protest it!

                  1. I actually don’t get what your point is at all. For some reason you’re scared shitless in a way nothing that happened this summer scared you shitless over, and I’m not sure why.

                    Sedition? Check.
                    Insurrection? Check.
                    Terrorism? Check.
                    Death threats? Check.

                    Instead of explaining this in any coherent way, you just imply that people are racist for noticing. Not really. Is that our point? The only thing else I can get from you is “OMG I’m really scared shitless now!” OK. You do you. Let cooler heads prevail.

        4. *worse?* lmao…. 50 or so people pushed their way into an event and maybe 10 or so broke some locked doors….

          FAR WORSE than holding blocks of Seattle in hostage for weeks and shooting more people than the Capitol Police throwing fire bombs, looting, etc, etc, (at just ONE example)…


          1. Actually Ken pegged this perfectly. The narrative of no protestor tolerance is getting painted for when the left stuffs the courts, comes after the guns, censors, and everything else promised on Biden’s website.

  18. The media’s newfound respect for government property is touching. Gives me warm fuzzy feelings.

  19. The rightwing militias and neo-Nazis and various other deplorable Trump supporters are organized and planning more violence against the United States. They’re hardly a new phenomenon, but they’ve never had an ally in the White House before.

    Call it whatever you want, they’re the biggest threat to the continued existence of the United States right now. If they had any other shade of skin, they’d have been put down decades ago.

    If BLM had invaded and murdered a cop at the US Capitol with the stated intention of murdering the speaker of the House and vice president, every last one of you ridiculous sheep would have your eyes glued to their repeated loops on FOX News of the scary black man attacking democracy, and you’d be for carpet bombing Chicago (that’s where the blacks live right?).

    You’re mad you lost an election and you think that gives you the right to overthrow the government. The fact that your policies are absurd and your worldview warped and racist, just the fucking useless cherry on top.

    Nobody has successfully explained what good comes of downplaying this. Especially not racist fucks who propagandized for years on end about the threat posed by college students protesting cops in Portland. At some point you people just need to accept that you’re fascists, and like all fascists, have done absurd things to language, like adopting “libertarian” for lols.

    1. Looks like the left found a use for all those projectors now that movie theaters aren’t a thing anymore.

      Good on you for recycling, Tony.

      1. You guys are going to keep escalating violence and justifying it by lying about stuff leftists do, as if that’s how morality works anyway.

        You’re going to lie yourself into oblivion. Good riddance. Hope you don’t murder too many people on the way.

        1. Keep proving my point about projection. I’m honestly pretty entertained.

        2. Your side killed 200 million.

          You’re evil. Full stop.

          1. What side would that be?

            Or is this more lies to justify your seditious inclinations?

        3. keep escalating violence

          That’s right, it was the evil Republicans who spent the summer burning down the country.

          1. Well they were certainly endorsing cop murder of black people, but that’s neither here nor there since the subject is the attempted overthrow of the US government by the president and his cultists.

            You understand perfectly well that someone doing something bad in the past does not justify doing bad in the president. You’re just trying to change the conversation because your boyfriend is in trouble.

            Sorry that was too much. You don’t have a motive, you’re just regurgitating stuff you heard from rightwing talking heads. It doesn’t need to make sense to you. For fascists, making sense isn’t remotely the point.

            1. No, two wrongs don’t make a right—but that’s not the argument.

              The argument is: “The Left has (also) been escalating violence—and you’re ignoring it.”

              The intent is not to excuse the January 6th conduct, but to prevent you from memory-holing all of the escalations that led to January 6th.

              That’s the fundamental problem with escalation—unless someone breaks the cycle, it begets additional escalation.

              Recognizing that “cycle” isn’t excusing it. You’re the one refusing to recognize the cycle—which has the effect of sweeping the precipitating conduct under the rug.

              1. There is no cycle. It’s all rightwing bullshit, and that bullshit led to violence, which was entirely predictable.

                The 2020 protests have nothing to do with this except that the attackers are fed crap about it like it’s something more than a civil rights protest and some associated vandalism. I know you think it’s of the same scale as the terrorist attack, but it’s not.

                You’re worried about memory holing it because you want to participate in this false equivalency game where every bad action on the part of the right is downplayed and excused because of something something scary black people.

                Not gonna work this time. They brought working bombs to the Capitol. They were urged by a sociopathic president to overthrow the election. This isn’t only unlike those other things, it’s unlike anything that’s ever happened.

                1. It doesn’t need to be the same magnitude in order to be part of the spiral/cycle of escalation—that’s kind of inherent to the concept of escalation.

                  You’re gleefully characterizing everything as an attempt to “excuse the January 6th riots,” when no one is doing that.

                  Other than you, of course, under a twisted theory of: “Two wrongs don’t make a right, but a lesser wrong gets completely excused in the face of a later, greater wrong.”

                  If John punches Paul, and Paul then shoots John—John’s still a dick.

    2. The left is still far more violent, Tony. Anyway you’re getting shrill and hysterical.

      1. Not even a little true. Not according to the FBI or any other assessment of facts. But you don’t know that because the feelings supplied by rightwing talking heads are more important than facts to you.

    3. If BLM had killed a cop in the Capitol, I would be bummed out that what ostensibly started out as a very widely supported movement to finally reign in police brutality had been flushed down the toilet for pointless violence and rage.

      In other words, 2020.

      1. Rightwing propaganda attempted to kill BLM, but the American public are still on BLM’s side. They’re definitely not on Trump’s side. Half want him removed from office immediately.

        This country is not as sympathetic to rightwing trash as you think it is.

        1. No one is talking about reforming the police anymore. The moment died long before this week.

          1. They couldn’t even be honest with their own rhetoric.

            Defund the police doesn’t really mean defund the police when you point out they said defund the police.

            1. So, we shouldn’t take people seriously when they say defund the police?

              Is that where we stand on “taking crazy people seriously”?

              1. I took them seriously at first, but then they started back tracking by claiming that’s not what they meant.

          2. Localities with decent people in charge are reforming police as we speak. BLM achieved some things for liberty. Think of what more they could have achieved if libertarians were on the side of liberty instead of the cops.

            1. Libertarians have been on the side of liberty and police reform since before it was cool.

              I just think of what more they could have achieved if they weren’t so busy burning things down.

              1. Even with the burning things down, black people achieved more police reform in a year than libertarians have in decades, or ever. Why isn’t that weird little factoid on your mind?

                The only thing that’s happening here is exactly what I’ve been saying all along. Libertarians choosing Republicans over liberty. The left has to actually fix things as usual.

                1. “Why isn’t that weird little factoid on your mind?”

                  Because it makes my point for me: you didn’t need to kill as many black people to get libertarians on board. They were already there. Why did it take so many black people for democrats to notice?

                  1. I assume the only valid answer is “systemic racism.”

                    1. ^THIS!!!!!!!!!! Every claim I have ever heard about racist police has come from Democratic Cities…… I’m so far away from that stuff in a well established [R] State that the claim seems unrealistic.

                      I’m glad BLM cleaned up some of the Democrats crap. Too bad they won’t clean up the rest of it and actually perhaps even supported it from the very beginning. Contrary ideology usually leads to madness.

                  2. I wonder how many black people got their ideas from Reason articles about police abuse. It’s possible, but I know for damn sure nobody in the comments section was marching in any streets. They were almost uniformly buying the scary-blacks scare stories and calling for law and order.

                    Freedom means different things to people in different circumstances. Some people’s biggest problem is cops stalking and murdering them with impunity. Some people’s biggest problem is the threat they think black people pose to their property values. I can understand why white boy libertarians would be torn.

                    1. It’s racist to assume that black people need to get their ideas from some other group. That’s not OK.

                      I’ll take the side of “on the right side of history the whole time.” I’m comfortable with that. Whatever makes you feel better about democrats being on the wrong side of history: go for it.

                    2. So let me get this straight. You think you’re on the right side of history, along with all the Nazis also on your side?

                    3. Nazi = National Socialist….
                      Contrary ideology usually leads to madness… You can be smarter than this Tony; I’ve seen it.

                    4. If you’re so scared of Nazis, you shouldn’t be so eager to follow in the footsteps of the Weimar Republic after the Beer Hall Pustch.

                      Hitler was sent to prison for treason, and all we got was Mein Kampf, WW2, and a Holocaust.

                    5. We’ll, Trump is only semi-literate, so it should be fine.

                      Curious what you think should have been done after the putsch. Treat Hitler nicer?

  20. Tony get some help please most of us grew out of depends.

  21. Getting pretty weird. Off to the gun range. Also stock up on ammo. Its hard to get

    1. “Getting pretty weird.”

      So weird that you’d waste precious ammo on paper targets. Paper tiger: it’s an epithet used by Chairman Mao against someone who claimed to be strong and fierce-some but was weak and feckless in reality.

  22. The last few months have made it quite clear what really motivates Trumpism.

    It isn’t racism or opposition to socialism or conservatism or constitutionalism or traditionalism per se.

    It is their self-absorbed narcissistic belief that they alone represent the “real America” and that any major changes must first get their approval.

    If they don’t believe that some issue is a problem, then it’s not really a problem and everyone else who thinks it is a problem is just whining and needs to shut up. But if THEY think that something is a problem, then IT’S A GODDAMN PROBLEM and everything else must be put on hold until the problem is solved.

    Gay marriage was wrong, not because they hated gays (well a few did), but because they weren’t first consulted. Expanding liberty to other people isn’t permissible unless it first gets their blessing. THEY decide who should get liberty because it’s THEIR country, dammit!

    Drug addiction, when it’s crack cocaine by poor Black people in the inner cities, isn’t really a problem, or if it is, it’s THEIR problem caused by their lack of morals and bootstraps, and the solution is more police to enforce the law. But drug addiction, when it’s oxycontin and opioids affecting Real Muricans, THEN it’s a NATIONAL EMERGENCY that requires lawsuits against Perdue and Congressional action to relieve the suffering and compassion and how dare you blame the victims for their suffering.

    The “anti-terrorist no fly list” is a terrific idea, when it’s applied to Muslims. But the “anti-terrorist no fly list” is a horrible idea when it’s applied to Real Muricans who are acting like “tourists” in the US Capitol.

    Socialism (in the form of ObamaCare and Medicaid and food stamps) is an intolerable anti-American scourge on this great nation. But socialism (in the form of Medicare and farm subsidies) is simply the government returning back to “the people” (translated as: Real Muricans) what they are entitled to.

    Kneeling for the National Anthem is an un-American disgrace and a slap in the face to our brave soldiers. But breaking into the US Capitol, parading the Confederate flag in Statuary Hall, tearing down US flags to replace them with Trump flags, those are perfectly acceptable forms of protest though. Because the Real Muricans are the ones who did it. THEY decide which grievances are real and which are imaginary. THEY decide which forms of protest are acceptable and which are disgraceful insults.

    The list goes on and on. In every case, its origin is a narcissistic belief that the nation revolves around them. At its core, it is anti-pluralistic. THEY are the deciders. THEY are the ones who decide what should happen, regardless of what the results of elections are.

    1. Which of course explains the events currently taking place.

      You’re such a fucking moron that it’s hard to believe you’re not a parody.

    2. “The last few months have made it quite clear what really motivates Trumpists”

      Hohum another Jeff screed that’s is just the same recycled grade-school shit you’ve been bleating about conservaives for years. You have one gear and it’s why you’re a laughing stock.

    3. “ Gay marriage was wrong, not because they hated gays (well a few did), but because they weren’t first consulted.”

      Odd thing to complain that people are ok with legislative policy changes but dislike judicial fiat. On a “libertarian” site.

      1. Yeah I’m sure you were protesting at the gates over Heller.

    4. I can’t speak for all Trump supporters but I will say no part of that describes me as a Trump supporter. I really don’t give a flying-rats-*ss if your city, county or even state want’s to play the commie-game. Just don’t take your commie-game and stuff it into the NATIONAL government.

      And Rand Paul [R] said it best, “I don’t want my guns or my marriage registered in Washington.”

      The biggest manipulation from my perspective is the compulsive narration that [WE] are a mob that must go this way or that way. I support the Constitution for Individual Liberty and Justice instead of [WE] mob alignment.

      As correctly generally acknowledge that the Republicans are the party of ‘limited’ government. Though you’d be correct to say it’s failed it’s platform; It’s still better than the other side by an oceans length.

  23. Tuccille’s rose or more precisely orange tinted glasses are obscuring the obvious and key difference between the seditious or even treasonous Trump and his “War Vets” that attacked our Capitol and those past private citizens that were abused by charges of sedition. Trump and those in his administration participating in this heinous act are de jure government actors and the Trump supporters that are not de jure government actors are much like Mugabe’s “War Vets” are de facto government actors.

    The axis of Trump and his co-combatants war against our election is not citizens fighting corrupt government; but corrupt, incumbent government fighting against its citizens to extend and expand its power over them. We private citizens must fight back, and we must not tie one hand behind our back in the fight just because Trump and his comrades are a bit pathetic.

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.” ~ Ronald Reagan

    1. Right right it’s different because it’s the team you hate.

      1. It’s different because it’s “His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hajj Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of all the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular.” level government oppression and corruption with Trump and his Trumpanzees doing a near perfect imitation of the start of Amin and his Kakwas.

  24. You know what’s a bad idea? Appeasing fucking nazi fascist fucks. Throw the book at every single one of these seditious assholes. They deserve it.

    Same with the orange Mussolini who incited it all.

  25. “he was pretty careful not to use words that directed imminent lawless action”

    Trump’s one skill is his ability to speak like a mob boss. You never say what you want directly. You talk like this:

    “And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal — it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know, what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk.”

    So yes I suppose playing the “which crimes didn’t Trump commit” game makes a lot of sense right now.

  26. What should the people who invaded the capitol be charged with?
    Trespassing or disturbing the peace or other such trivial charges are a message that this behavior is not too bad. It invites repeats of this action, every time an election is lost or Congress takes up an action that one group doesn’t believe in. Can we expect frequent repeats?
    Stiff punishment send a message that action to violently disrupt the government of the US is not tolerated.

    1. When I was traveling about in China, I would occasionally find myself in ‘closed counties,’ places where there were military facilities and the like, and foreigners were not welcome. The gong an (public security police) would take me to the station, give me a cup of tea and question me. They were not always that friendly, but in any case, they’d arrange a guest house for me to spend the night, tell me to get a bus back to an open county in the morning, and leave me to explore the town and its inhabitants for the time remaining. I was lucky as I know people detained in China since then who have had terrifying experiences at the hands of various uniformed officials. I hope the Trump administration can be as lenient as the lenient Chinese officials I encountered. Maybe issue a blanket pardon with a stiffly worded warning not to storm any more capitols.

    2. Because government is holy now.

      1. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

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  29. Incitement to violence and defamation are not legal First Amendment exercises. Although presidents (not their cabinet members) have a slightly more flexible Oath of Office, presidents are supposed to swear supreme and superseding loyalty to the U.S. Constitution and do their best to never violate their loyalty oath to the U.S Constitution – a wartime governing charter with emergency clauses already built in to deal with both terrorism and insurrection.

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    2. “Incitement to violence and defamation are not legal First Amendment exercises.“

      Except that has not demonstrably occurred.

      The president of the United States is being denied his 1a rights, an act of sedition, by those he is accusing of rigging the election.

      1. I just saw him flap his fat face on national TV.

        There is no first amendment right to a Twitter account.

        1. Free speech is an inalienable right.

          When speech is business it must be free. If you don’t support free speech, get out of the business or move to communist China.

          Business cannot alienate an inalienable right.

  30. It can simultaneously be true that sedition charges are almost always a bad idea and that armed invasion of the U.S. Capitol is a case where they are not a bad idea.

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